1 00:00:01,440 --> 00:00:04,920 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff you Should Know, a production of iHeartRadio. 2 00:00:11,119 --> 00:00:13,960 Speaker 2: Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh and there's Chuck. 3 00:00:14,360 --> 00:00:17,639 Speaker 2: Jerry's here too, and we're just sitting around cutting the 4 00:00:17,640 --> 00:00:21,000 Speaker 2: insides of our mouths up here on stuff you should know. 5 00:00:21,680 --> 00:00:24,440 Speaker 1: Yeah, the history of orthodonture, which if I had been 6 00:00:24,520 --> 00:00:28,480 Speaker 1: using my brain, would have paired this with the history 7 00:00:28,480 --> 00:00:32,240 Speaker 1: of dentistry, because that's, you know, kind of makes sense. 8 00:00:33,360 --> 00:00:35,280 Speaker 2: Sure, I feel like we would have had seen a 9 00:00:35,280 --> 00:00:38,640 Speaker 2: real decline in listenership that week, but you know, you 10 00:00:38,640 --> 00:00:43,360 Speaker 2: think so, No, just kidding, just being a punk. I 11 00:00:43,440 --> 00:00:45,120 Speaker 2: remember our dentistry one was amazing. 12 00:00:45,280 --> 00:00:47,080 Speaker 1: Well, and I think I don't know. I think people 13 00:00:47,080 --> 00:00:49,440 Speaker 1: are interested in their. 14 00:00:49,240 --> 00:00:53,239 Speaker 2: Bodies, especially when you say like that. 15 00:00:53,640 --> 00:00:57,520 Speaker 1: Yeah, and then teeth and stuff, because we all have teeth, 16 00:00:58,240 --> 00:01:02,240 Speaker 1: and it's interesting that bad you know, teeth, I say 17 00:01:02,280 --> 00:01:04,360 Speaker 1: bad teeth. I have bad teeth, but what I mean 18 00:01:04,400 --> 00:01:07,920 Speaker 1: by bad teeth is teeth that grow in in funky ways. 19 00:01:08,240 --> 00:01:10,280 Speaker 1: But I'd like to kind of break that cycle as 20 00:01:10,280 --> 00:01:12,440 Speaker 1: well of kind of talking about it like that, because 21 00:01:14,040 --> 00:01:16,360 Speaker 1: even though I have gotten my teeth fixed, it's just 22 00:01:16,400 --> 00:01:18,840 Speaker 1: because they were falling out of my head. It's not 23 00:01:18,959 --> 00:01:22,319 Speaker 1: because I wanted perfect white chicklets in my mouth. And 24 00:01:22,400 --> 00:01:25,080 Speaker 1: I think there's a big trend that we've seen over 25 00:01:25,080 --> 00:01:28,880 Speaker 1: the past, you know, twenty years, and really I feel 26 00:01:28,880 --> 00:01:32,600 Speaker 1: like even the last ten years where Hollywood, especially people 27 00:01:32,600 --> 00:01:37,600 Speaker 1: in the media all have perfect, perfect, perfect teeth, and 28 00:01:37,880 --> 00:01:39,920 Speaker 1: you don't have to have perfect teeth. I like teeth 29 00:01:39,920 --> 00:01:41,840 Speaker 1: with a little personality. I like summer teeth. 30 00:01:42,520 --> 00:01:45,320 Speaker 2: Yeah, I can't remember what they're what kind of teeth? 31 00:01:45,400 --> 00:01:46,440 Speaker 1: Summer summer teeth. 32 00:01:46,840 --> 00:01:47,480 Speaker 2: I've not heard that. 33 00:01:47,600 --> 00:01:48,680 Speaker 1: You never heard that? Praise? 34 00:01:49,320 --> 00:01:50,480 Speaker 2: No, what does it mean? 35 00:01:50,960 --> 00:01:52,520 Speaker 1: Summer teeth? Summer here? Some are there? 36 00:01:52,880 --> 00:01:55,560 Speaker 2: Oh, that's awesome, man, I love that. That's like a 37 00:01:55,720 --> 00:01:58,560 Speaker 2: what kind of dog is that? Sooner? Sooner? One kind 38 00:01:58,680 --> 00:01:59,080 Speaker 2: is another? 39 00:01:59,240 --> 00:02:00,120 Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly. 40 00:02:01,080 --> 00:02:03,600 Speaker 2: Yeah. They're in Japan. They have a name for like 41 00:02:03,640 --> 00:02:07,720 Speaker 2: a wonky tooth. Usually it's one of your canines and 42 00:02:07,760 --> 00:02:10,480 Speaker 2: it'll be like kind of pressed out or crooked or 43 00:02:10,480 --> 00:02:12,600 Speaker 2: something like that. You may have one, but there's a 44 00:02:12,680 --> 00:02:15,760 Speaker 2: term for it, and it's like basically a term of endearment. 45 00:02:16,000 --> 00:02:18,560 Speaker 2: They just find that very cute. Here in the US, 46 00:02:18,720 --> 00:02:21,160 Speaker 2: it'd be like we you would be put in some 47 00:02:21,200 --> 00:02:24,520 Speaker 2: sort of like home or asylum for that yeah. 48 00:02:24,560 --> 00:02:27,360 Speaker 1: I mean you get as an actor, you get news 49 00:02:27,480 --> 00:02:30,120 Speaker 1: articles written about you when you don't get your thing fixed. 50 00:02:30,240 --> 00:02:33,440 Speaker 1: That's how commonplace it is to just you know, the 51 00:02:33,480 --> 00:02:35,480 Speaker 1: expectation to look perfect, right. 52 00:02:36,639 --> 00:02:40,520 Speaker 2: And that's a big criticism of the entire field of 53 00:02:40,639 --> 00:02:43,800 Speaker 2: orthodonics is, you know, they might not be the ones 54 00:02:43,840 --> 00:02:46,480 Speaker 2: out there like, you know, pumping the media up like yeah, 55 00:02:46,919 --> 00:02:49,200 Speaker 2: keep talking about how great teeth are supposed to be. 56 00:02:50,200 --> 00:02:51,880 Speaker 2: But they're the ones who are there like, hey, come 57 00:02:51,919 --> 00:02:54,320 Speaker 2: on over, we're going to fix you up. Tough to 58 00:02:54,320 --> 00:02:57,200 Speaker 2: blame them for that, but the criticism goes even further 59 00:02:57,639 --> 00:03:01,000 Speaker 2: because the feel of orthodonics is like, forget about all that, 60 00:03:01,280 --> 00:03:06,400 Speaker 2: we're actually helping cure health issues, right, And critics of 61 00:03:06,440 --> 00:03:09,079 Speaker 2: the field are like, it's not even established that there 62 00:03:09,120 --> 00:03:12,639 Speaker 2: are health issues from having wonky teeth, so you guys 63 00:03:12,680 --> 00:03:15,080 Speaker 2: should probably stop saying all that. In the field of 64 00:03:15,480 --> 00:03:18,640 Speaker 2: orthodonic said no, yeah, I. 65 00:03:18,680 --> 00:03:21,760 Speaker 1: Mean, for sure there can be health issues. We're not 66 00:03:21,800 --> 00:03:25,680 Speaker 1: saying that's not possible. But I feel like it's almost 67 00:03:25,680 --> 00:03:28,080 Speaker 1: a given now, especially now that I have a human 68 00:03:28,160 --> 00:03:32,040 Speaker 1: child that like, yeah, you absolutely get bracest. That's just 69 00:03:32,040 --> 00:03:34,280 Speaker 1: what happens. You go to the dentist. Really around six 70 00:03:34,360 --> 00:03:36,360 Speaker 1: or seven years old, they say, all right, you need 71 00:03:36,400 --> 00:03:37,400 Speaker 1: to go to your orthodonos. 72 00:03:37,440 --> 00:03:41,280 Speaker 2: Now, I did not know that that that was not 73 00:03:41,400 --> 00:03:42,760 Speaker 2: the way it was when we were young. 74 00:03:43,320 --> 00:03:46,920 Speaker 1: No, I mean I had braces twice, did you. Yeah, 75 00:03:47,160 --> 00:03:50,440 Speaker 1: but you know I've got bad bite. I have a 76 00:03:50,480 --> 00:03:54,000 Speaker 1: host of problems. But yeah, let's dive into it, because 77 00:03:54,080 --> 00:03:55,800 Speaker 1: this is not a new thing. People have always had 78 00:03:55,880 --> 00:04:02,360 Speaker 1: wonky teeth. And the reason is because we have the 79 00:04:02,400 --> 00:04:05,920 Speaker 1: same amount of teeth in our head that we did 80 00:04:06,000 --> 00:04:08,920 Speaker 1: when we were still, you know, walking on all fours, 81 00:04:09,640 --> 00:04:12,800 Speaker 1: and we began to walk upright, and the size of 82 00:04:12,840 --> 00:04:15,800 Speaker 1: our our brain changed, and that meant the size of 83 00:04:15,840 --> 00:04:18,479 Speaker 1: our jaw got smaller to make room for our bigger brain. 84 00:04:19,440 --> 00:04:22,240 Speaker 1: It's not like they were like, all right, they whoever 85 00:04:22,279 --> 00:04:24,800 Speaker 1: decides this, you know, the panel God. It's not like 86 00:04:25,040 --> 00:04:28,080 Speaker 1: the god panel said all right, let's take out five 87 00:04:28,160 --> 00:04:30,159 Speaker 1: or six teeth because we don't have room for him. Now. 88 00:04:30,920 --> 00:04:33,200 Speaker 1: They were the same amount of teeth with less space 89 00:04:33,240 --> 00:04:35,400 Speaker 1: to put them, and that's why they started coming in 90 00:04:35,400 --> 00:04:36,480 Speaker 1: in all crazy ways. 91 00:04:36,839 --> 00:04:39,120 Speaker 2: Yeah, just give it another one hundred thousand years, chuck, 92 00:04:39,120 --> 00:04:39,680 Speaker 2: it'll work. 93 00:04:39,560 --> 00:04:40,640 Speaker 1: Itself out exactly. 94 00:04:41,440 --> 00:04:46,000 Speaker 2: Even more recent than that, the teeth were Orthodonics was 95 00:04:46,040 --> 00:04:49,760 Speaker 2: probably not an issue for one hunter gatherers because the 96 00:04:49,800 --> 00:04:53,520 Speaker 2: diet they had was more much more challenging to their 97 00:04:53,600 --> 00:04:56,760 Speaker 2: teeth and jaw, the bone that held their teeth in 98 00:04:56,800 --> 00:04:59,400 Speaker 2: place because of the chewing they had to do well. 99 00:04:59,480 --> 00:05:02,760 Speaker 2: Since we picked up agriculture, and especially since the Industrial 100 00:05:02,800 --> 00:05:07,960 Speaker 2: Revolution where we started mass processing food, everything's gotten much softer. 101 00:05:08,520 --> 00:05:13,599 Speaker 2: So we're challenging the bone in our jaw less. Therefore 102 00:05:14,400 --> 00:05:19,080 Speaker 2: our teeth are more prone to go wonky rather than 103 00:05:19,120 --> 00:05:20,040 Speaker 2: coming in straight. 104 00:05:20,200 --> 00:05:24,120 Speaker 1: Yeah, and less bone is happening there. So I mean 105 00:05:24,160 --> 00:05:27,240 Speaker 1: that's the history of my teeth is bone loss and 106 00:05:27,520 --> 00:05:28,360 Speaker 1: lack of bone. 107 00:05:28,920 --> 00:05:32,640 Speaker 2: Hey man, I just got two root canals. I was 108 00:05:32,760 --> 00:05:36,400 Speaker 2: in the chair for two and the dentist was like, 109 00:05:36,520 --> 00:05:38,800 Speaker 2: you could go either way. On the one it just 110 00:05:38,839 --> 00:05:41,320 Speaker 2: got a lot of cold sensitivity, and I was like, oh, 111 00:05:41,360 --> 00:05:44,000 Speaker 2: I'll just get one. Spent the next couple of days 112 00:05:44,040 --> 00:05:46,560 Speaker 2: like realizing how bad the cold sensitivity on the other 113 00:05:46,600 --> 00:05:49,520 Speaker 2: one was. The following week I got the other one done. Yeah, 114 00:05:49,560 --> 00:05:52,400 Speaker 2: so two fridays in a row, I went to the 115 00:05:52,480 --> 00:05:55,440 Speaker 2: endodontis and got root canals. How about that? 116 00:05:55,800 --> 00:05:58,680 Speaker 1: Yeah, I've never had a root canal. Weirdly, that's the 117 00:05:58,680 --> 00:05:59,560 Speaker 1: one thing I haven't had. 118 00:06:00,160 --> 00:06:04,400 Speaker 2: They're they're not fun, but they're well they're not fun. 119 00:06:04,600 --> 00:06:09,200 Speaker 1: Yeah. So early on, you know, in ancient times, people 120 00:06:09,320 --> 00:06:11,479 Speaker 1: started to kind of look at this issue. In fact, 121 00:06:11,560 --> 00:06:16,039 Speaker 1: Hippocrates even wrote of crowded teeth potentially producing headaches and 122 00:06:16,080 --> 00:06:18,880 Speaker 1: problems with the palette and stuff like that discharge from 123 00:06:18,880 --> 00:06:21,880 Speaker 1: the ear, which is super gross. And there were have 124 00:06:21,920 --> 00:06:24,880 Speaker 1: been mummies, like Egyptian mummies that look like they may 125 00:06:24,920 --> 00:06:26,560 Speaker 1: have had some kind of braces, Like they had these 126 00:06:26,600 --> 00:06:29,160 Speaker 1: gold bands around some of their teeth and they were 127 00:06:29,200 --> 00:06:33,360 Speaker 1: connected with catgut and it appeared as if they were, 128 00:06:33,400 --> 00:06:35,320 Speaker 1: you know, being kind of used like braces to pull 129 00:06:35,360 --> 00:06:37,159 Speaker 1: the teeth in one direction or the other. 130 00:06:37,960 --> 00:06:42,000 Speaker 2: Yep, which is I mean pretty interesting. Again, this is 131 00:06:42,160 --> 00:06:46,040 Speaker 2: post agriculture, so don't don't email us. Yeah. And also 132 00:06:46,080 --> 00:06:48,960 Speaker 2: there's good band and album name in there, Hippocrates and 133 00:06:49,040 --> 00:06:52,440 Speaker 2: the Egyptian mummies. The album is discharged from the ear. 134 00:06:52,720 --> 00:06:57,120 Speaker 2: Oh god, okay, just waiting for us. 135 00:06:57,240 --> 00:06:58,799 Speaker 1: Yeah, good one. 136 00:06:59,000 --> 00:07:02,600 Speaker 2: There was another couple people from the ancient world, Celsus, 137 00:07:02,640 --> 00:07:06,480 Speaker 2: who was a Roman writer. He talked about how if 138 00:07:06,520 --> 00:07:09,320 Speaker 2: you were worried about adult teeth coming in. You pluck 139 00:07:09,400 --> 00:07:11,880 Speaker 2: the baby tooth out and then press it with your 140 00:07:11,880 --> 00:07:14,760 Speaker 2: finger every day. Yeah, And it turned out that was 141 00:07:14,760 --> 00:07:17,080 Speaker 2: a pretty good idea because that was adopted later on 142 00:07:17,160 --> 00:07:20,240 Speaker 2: in Orthodontrea when it really became a thing, and even 143 00:07:20,320 --> 00:07:22,800 Speaker 2: Pliny got in on it. Remember how much he used 144 00:07:22,800 --> 00:07:24,280 Speaker 2: to visit us in our podcast. 145 00:07:24,360 --> 00:07:26,080 Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean I feel like Planning used to be 146 00:07:26,200 --> 00:07:29,160 Speaker 1: a firm entrant into the stuff you should know drinking game. 147 00:07:29,640 --> 00:07:32,360 Speaker 2: Yeah. Well he moved on to the dough boys. Oh okay, 148 00:07:32,800 --> 00:07:35,720 Speaker 2: but he said that if you don't like the alignment 149 00:07:35,800 --> 00:07:37,440 Speaker 2: of your teeth, just file them. 150 00:07:38,160 --> 00:07:40,440 Speaker 1: Yeah, which is still a thing. 151 00:07:41,480 --> 00:07:44,760 Speaker 2: It is. That's another I think thing that I'm like, wait, really, 152 00:07:44,760 --> 00:07:47,320 Speaker 2: you guys are still doing this, And it's true, like 153 00:07:47,400 --> 00:07:50,600 Speaker 2: a lot of the inventions and techniques and ideas that 154 00:07:50,920 --> 00:07:54,720 Speaker 2: came along from the very beginning of orthodontire are I 155 00:07:54,720 --> 00:07:56,320 Speaker 2: guess they got them right right out of the gate, 156 00:07:56,320 --> 00:07:57,840 Speaker 2: because they're still doing them today. 157 00:07:58,040 --> 00:08:00,680 Speaker 1: Yeah. For sure. I've had my teeth down in a 158 00:08:00,680 --> 00:08:02,640 Speaker 1: lot of ways to keep the bite from pressing on 159 00:08:02,720 --> 00:08:04,800 Speaker 1: other teeth, to make them, you know, keep them from 160 00:08:04,840 --> 00:08:06,200 Speaker 1: becoming weakend. You know, still a thing. 161 00:08:06,480 --> 00:08:07,320 Speaker 2: How is that. 162 00:08:08,640 --> 00:08:10,120 Speaker 1: What to get them filed? 163 00:08:10,880 --> 00:08:12,120 Speaker 2: Does it hurt? Is it fir? Oh? 164 00:08:12,160 --> 00:08:14,440 Speaker 1: No, no, no, it doesn't hurt at all. It's just 165 00:08:14,480 --> 00:08:18,680 Speaker 1: that only. Yeah, and then you smell the smoke and 166 00:08:18,880 --> 00:08:20,880 Speaker 1: you know that part's all horrific. But there's no pain 167 00:08:20,920 --> 00:08:22,600 Speaker 1: in ball because they're not hitting nerves or anything. 168 00:08:22,800 --> 00:08:27,000 Speaker 2: Okay, yeah, Now imagine doing that through the middle interior 169 00:08:27,040 --> 00:08:31,320 Speaker 2: of the tooth to scrape out the root to the nerve. 170 00:08:32,400 --> 00:08:33,320 Speaker 2: That's a root canal. 171 00:08:33,400 --> 00:08:36,640 Speaker 1: Oh man, so sorry, sorry. 172 00:08:37,440 --> 00:08:40,360 Speaker 2: So I guess really the first person, i mean, plain 173 00:08:40,440 --> 00:08:42,480 Speaker 2: of the elder, makes a pretty good case, but not really. 174 00:08:42,559 --> 00:08:45,360 Speaker 2: It wasn't until the very beginning of the eighteenth century 175 00:08:45,800 --> 00:08:49,320 Speaker 2: that a Frenchman, the French, would actually really have a 176 00:08:49,360 --> 00:08:53,359 Speaker 2: lot to do with establishing orthodontire. Same was Pierre Fauchard, 177 00:08:54,160 --> 00:08:56,920 Speaker 2: and he basically said, check this out, everybody, I'm going 178 00:08:56,960 --> 00:08:59,480 Speaker 2: to work on wonky teeth. I'm gonna make my name 179 00:09:00,120 --> 00:09:00,800 Speaker 2: that for that. 180 00:09:01,200 --> 00:09:04,920 Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure, And as it is today, children and 181 00:09:04,960 --> 00:09:08,160 Speaker 1: young adults were kind of the likeliest candidates for that, 182 00:09:08,880 --> 00:09:13,160 Speaker 1: and he designed the very first appliances for moving teeth around. 183 00:09:14,520 --> 00:09:16,720 Speaker 1: The first thing he would do is measure the length 184 00:09:16,720 --> 00:09:19,600 Speaker 1: of the teeth and file them down if they were 185 00:09:19,640 --> 00:09:21,520 Speaker 1: you know, if he had one that was exceptionally longer, 186 00:09:21,520 --> 00:09:23,680 Speaker 1: then it's little buddy next to it. He would file 187 00:09:23,720 --> 00:09:25,199 Speaker 1: it down, then do so on the other side to 188 00:09:25,240 --> 00:09:29,160 Speaker 1: kind of balance things out. That's called bite adjustment. Like 189 00:09:29,160 --> 00:09:32,080 Speaker 1: I said, they still do those, including on me. That's 190 00:09:32,160 --> 00:09:39,360 Speaker 1: an occlusional occlusal sorry, equilibration. Equilibration, Yeah, that's not an 191 00:09:39,400 --> 00:09:43,559 Speaker 1: easy one. And again that's to I mean, sometimes I 192 00:09:43,600 --> 00:09:46,920 Speaker 1: guess it's to help out the aesthetic, but in my case, 193 00:09:46,920 --> 00:09:50,920 Speaker 1: and in most cases, it's to keep teeth from grinding 194 00:09:51,000 --> 00:09:53,080 Speaker 1: against another tooth in a way that causes harm. 195 00:09:53,800 --> 00:09:58,080 Speaker 2: Yeah, I've realized it as an adult. My bite is 196 00:09:58,320 --> 00:10:03,240 Speaker 2: way over to the I guess the bottom is Yeah, 197 00:10:03,280 --> 00:10:06,040 Speaker 2: the bottoms to the right and to the left. Is 198 00:10:06,040 --> 00:10:06,640 Speaker 2: that what it's called? 199 00:10:06,720 --> 00:10:07,000 Speaker 1: I think? 200 00:10:07,040 --> 00:10:10,400 Speaker 2: So, Oh my man, I got a terrible cross bite. 201 00:10:10,679 --> 00:10:12,680 Speaker 2: But I mean, I'm I'm making my way in the 202 00:10:12,679 --> 00:10:17,000 Speaker 2: world today. Takes everything I've got, but I'm still able 203 00:10:17,040 --> 00:10:17,920 Speaker 2: to chew pretty well. 204 00:10:18,160 --> 00:10:19,400 Speaker 1: Yeah, Yeah, that's what matters. 205 00:10:19,920 --> 00:10:24,080 Speaker 2: Sure. So let's talk a little bit more about Fauchard, 206 00:10:24,120 --> 00:10:27,040 Speaker 2: because he hasn't left yet. He's he really kind of 207 00:10:27,040 --> 00:10:30,560 Speaker 2: got into this and laid the groundwork. He did the 208 00:10:30,600 --> 00:10:34,600 Speaker 2: same thing that Pliny suggested that, like you said, you 209 00:10:34,679 --> 00:10:38,680 Speaker 2: went to the same procedure. He called it inner proximal stripping, 210 00:10:39,040 --> 00:10:41,800 Speaker 2: which is essentially just filing down teeth to make more 211 00:10:41,800 --> 00:10:42,719 Speaker 2: space between them. 212 00:10:43,280 --> 00:10:45,560 Speaker 1: Yeah, Like if if it's crooked, give it a little 213 00:10:45,559 --> 00:10:48,079 Speaker 1: more space and maybe it'll be able to straighten itself out. 214 00:10:48,400 --> 00:10:51,680 Speaker 2: Yeah, Or like you can file it down for the 215 00:10:51,720 --> 00:10:54,640 Speaker 2: space and then you apply some sort of appliance to 216 00:10:54,679 --> 00:10:57,080 Speaker 2: it too, straighten that tooth too, But you gotta make 217 00:10:57,120 --> 00:10:57,880 Speaker 2: the space first. 218 00:10:58,080 --> 00:11:00,600 Speaker 1: He came up with that, yeah. Or what he did 219 00:11:00,720 --> 00:11:03,720 Speaker 1: was was push on the teeth, just like Celsus suggested, 220 00:11:04,679 --> 00:11:07,120 Speaker 1: like every day, you know, and this you know, this 221 00:11:07,160 --> 00:11:10,040 Speaker 1: makes sense. It's essentially what rubber bands and braces do. 222 00:11:11,360 --> 00:11:15,160 Speaker 1: Just you're applying pressure to your teeth at a regular interval, 223 00:11:15,320 --> 00:11:18,440 Speaker 1: like so many times a day and so many the 224 00:11:18,520 --> 00:11:21,280 Speaker 1: ideas that they will move right. 225 00:11:21,559 --> 00:11:24,360 Speaker 2: And it's true. Like that's one of the amazing things 226 00:11:24,360 --> 00:11:26,520 Speaker 2: to me, is like if you apply even like a 227 00:11:26,600 --> 00:11:30,000 Speaker 2: gentle bit of pressure over a long enough time span, 228 00:11:30,280 --> 00:11:34,000 Speaker 2: your teeth will go where you want them to. Yeah. 229 00:11:34,040 --> 00:11:38,160 Speaker 2: So one of the other reasons why Fauchard is remembered 230 00:11:38,240 --> 00:11:41,880 Speaker 2: is because he essentially came up with the idea for braces. 231 00:11:43,040 --> 00:11:48,040 Speaker 2: He basically used a waxed piece of silk or a 232 00:11:48,080 --> 00:11:52,120 Speaker 2: wire or something, and he would wrap a tooth that's say, 233 00:11:52,160 --> 00:11:55,640 Speaker 2: crooked to the neighbor next to it, and that would 234 00:11:55,679 --> 00:11:58,800 Speaker 2: apply pressure to straighten out the crooked tooth. I'm sure 235 00:11:58,840 --> 00:12:01,439 Speaker 2: in the worst case scenario make the other tooth crooked 236 00:12:01,760 --> 00:12:03,400 Speaker 2: in the bar again, so you really had to keep 237 00:12:03,400 --> 00:12:06,520 Speaker 2: an eye on it. Yeah, and sometimes he would use 238 00:12:06,520 --> 00:12:10,480 Speaker 2: a plate too to connect a crooked tooth to one 239 00:12:10,520 --> 00:12:12,760 Speaker 2: that you wanted to use a pressure, maybe a couple 240 00:12:12,800 --> 00:12:14,920 Speaker 2: of them to use his pressure to straighten it out. 241 00:12:15,200 --> 00:12:19,040 Speaker 2: And this eventually was like, this is the basis of 242 00:12:19,080 --> 00:12:21,760 Speaker 2: what braces do for your teeth. This guy was inventing 243 00:12:21,800 --> 00:12:24,560 Speaker 2: it in the early seventeen hundreds. 244 00:12:24,720 --> 00:12:28,280 Speaker 1: Yeah. He also used a specific torture device called a pelican. 245 00:12:29,240 --> 00:12:31,640 Speaker 1: It had been around before, I think since the at 246 00:12:31,720 --> 00:12:34,000 Speaker 1: least the fourteenth century. It was used for pulling teeth, 247 00:12:34,040 --> 00:12:37,400 Speaker 1: but he kind of rejiggered it and redesigned it to 248 00:12:37,440 --> 00:12:41,840 Speaker 1: where it was basically a forcep that could pull a tooth. 249 00:12:43,480 --> 00:12:45,880 Speaker 1: Pull a tooth like, not out of your body, but 250 00:12:45,960 --> 00:12:49,480 Speaker 1: in a certain direction, and if it sounds like awful 251 00:12:49,520 --> 00:12:51,160 Speaker 1: and could lead to bad things, that very much could, 252 00:12:51,200 --> 00:12:54,880 Speaker 1: because at least once on record, he fractured a tooth 253 00:12:55,559 --> 00:12:57,320 Speaker 1: of a young woman that he was working on, and 254 00:12:57,360 --> 00:12:59,640 Speaker 1: I imagine that was extremely unpleasant. 255 00:13:00,040 --> 00:13:02,360 Speaker 2: I can't believe there's just the one that people mention, 256 00:13:02,520 --> 00:13:02,880 Speaker 2: you know, I. 257 00:13:02,880 --> 00:13:04,439 Speaker 1: Mean, that's the one on record. I'm sure it happened 258 00:13:04,440 --> 00:13:05,080 Speaker 1: more than that, you know. 259 00:13:05,240 --> 00:13:11,640 Speaker 2: Yeah, the girl was quoted as saying, yeow exactly. He 260 00:13:11,760 --> 00:13:14,320 Speaker 2: also was smart enough to know that you could get 261 00:13:14,360 --> 00:13:18,000 Speaker 2: infections from some of these techniques and procedures he was performing, 262 00:13:18,040 --> 00:13:22,240 Speaker 2: so he recommended a mouthwash of wine and a specific 263 00:13:22,320 --> 00:13:25,319 Speaker 2: kind of honey with some rose essence to it. Yeah. 264 00:13:26,320 --> 00:13:29,400 Speaker 2: I mean, this guy just he just laid it down. 265 00:13:29,480 --> 00:13:32,440 Speaker 2: And what's interesting is he was doing this in the 266 00:13:32,480 --> 00:13:36,440 Speaker 2: early seventeen hundreds, and it wasn't really until the mid 267 00:13:36,600 --> 00:13:39,600 Speaker 2: nineteenth century that really started to become picked up again. 268 00:13:40,160 --> 00:13:46,240 Speaker 2: And one reason why is because we viewed teeth much differently, 269 00:13:46,679 --> 00:13:49,880 Speaker 2: at least in the West, than we do today. Like 270 00:13:49,960 --> 00:13:52,320 Speaker 2: you were saying, thanks to Hollywood and magazines and all that, 271 00:13:52,360 --> 00:13:53,720 Speaker 2: you want to show off your teeth and you're going 272 00:13:53,760 --> 00:13:57,600 Speaker 2: to be perfect. Back then, you did not show off 273 00:13:57,640 --> 00:14:01,360 Speaker 2: your teeth. It was grossly impolite to let anyone see 274 00:14:01,360 --> 00:14:03,520 Speaker 2: your teeth. Go back and look at any portrait from 275 00:14:03,559 --> 00:14:06,679 Speaker 2: the eighteenth century. I will pay you a dollar fifty 276 00:14:06,880 --> 00:14:10,680 Speaker 2: if you find one single portrait of a gentry or 277 00:14:10,800 --> 00:14:14,440 Speaker 2: aristocrat man or woman who's showing their teeth in a painting. 278 00:14:14,600 --> 00:14:17,480 Speaker 2: You can't find it because that was really rude and 279 00:14:18,040 --> 00:14:18,679 Speaker 2: day class a. 280 00:14:19,080 --> 00:14:22,520 Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean almost any painting you think about, like, 281 00:14:22,640 --> 00:14:24,840 Speaker 1: it didn't occur to me until I, you know, did 282 00:14:24,880 --> 00:14:29,240 Speaker 1: this research and you go to any museum, and if 283 00:14:29,240 --> 00:14:33,480 Speaker 1: you see teeth, it's probably to depict someone who is unhinged, 284 00:14:34,040 --> 00:14:37,960 Speaker 1: or like a prisoner escaping from prison, or someone a pirate, Yeah, 285 00:14:38,000 --> 00:14:40,520 Speaker 1: a pirate or an asylum or something like that, and 286 00:14:40,560 --> 00:14:43,080 Speaker 1: the teeth are all, you know, jacked up looking. Other 287 00:14:43,160 --> 00:14:45,280 Speaker 1: than that, you don't see teeth in paintings. 288 00:14:45,520 --> 00:14:48,600 Speaker 2: You don't a dollar fifty everybody. Yeah, but just to 289 00:14:48,640 --> 00:14:50,000 Speaker 2: one of you, not all of you. 290 00:14:50,480 --> 00:14:53,520 Speaker 1: Oh man, we're gonna get some. It's gonna start rolling in, 291 00:14:53,560 --> 00:14:57,920 Speaker 1: Buddy Jpeggs coming at you with toothie paintings. 292 00:14:58,160 --> 00:15:00,560 Speaker 2: Should we take a break, Yeah, we should take a break. 293 00:15:00,600 --> 00:15:02,360 Speaker 1: All right, we'll take a break and we're gonna jump 294 00:15:02,400 --> 00:15:04,120 Speaker 1: forward into the eighteen hundreds after this. 295 00:15:05,720 --> 00:15:27,000 Speaker 2: So, like I said, Fauchard was working in the early 296 00:15:27,080 --> 00:15:30,080 Speaker 2: seventeen hundreds. By the mid nineteenth century, I guess people's 297 00:15:30,080 --> 00:15:32,680 Speaker 2: thoughts on teeth were changing and they were like, Okay, 298 00:15:32,680 --> 00:15:34,880 Speaker 2: we can show our teeth, but think I'll look good. 299 00:15:35,160 --> 00:15:39,920 Speaker 2: So let's get back into orthodonture. Another Frenchman, Pierre joaquim 300 00:15:40,080 --> 00:15:42,720 Speaker 2: Le Foulon, he's the one who came up with the 301 00:15:42,760 --> 00:15:48,120 Speaker 2: word orthodonyx, actually called it orthodontice. You have to say 302 00:15:48,160 --> 00:15:52,560 Speaker 2: it like that. And in Greek, ortho means straight, Dante 303 00:15:52,680 --> 00:15:56,920 Speaker 2: is teeth, So straight teeth is what the word orthodonyx means. 304 00:15:57,200 --> 00:16:00,640 Speaker 1: You know, I love that when that happens the too, Yeah, 305 00:16:00,680 --> 00:16:06,160 Speaker 1: when I can't even have follow that. So they didn't 306 00:16:06,200 --> 00:16:09,840 Speaker 1: call themselves that yet in most cases at the time. 307 00:16:09,840 --> 00:16:11,440 Speaker 1: That kind of caught on more and more as things 308 00:16:11,440 --> 00:16:15,760 Speaker 1: went on, But dentists started to do this stuff. They 309 00:16:15,760 --> 00:16:18,720 Speaker 1: weren't like specialists that only did orthodontics. Yet it was 310 00:16:18,760 --> 00:16:22,520 Speaker 1: just part of dentistry, and too, straightening was part of dentistry, 311 00:16:22,920 --> 00:16:25,080 Speaker 1: and you were an apprentice who learned that kind of thing. 312 00:16:25,840 --> 00:16:29,160 Speaker 1: Dental colleges started being organized in the mid nineteenth century. 313 00:16:29,200 --> 00:16:34,800 Speaker 1: But I mean when was the first orthod's orthodontire school? 314 00:16:34,920 --> 00:16:37,400 Speaker 1: That was in the twentieth century, right. 315 00:16:37,600 --> 00:16:40,520 Speaker 2: Yeah, either the very beginning of the twentieth or the 316 00:16:40,680 --> 00:16:45,600 Speaker 2: very early or no, yeah, very late nineteenth century. I 317 00:16:45,680 --> 00:16:47,920 Speaker 2: think it was an angle. 318 00:16:47,760 --> 00:16:50,640 Speaker 1: Yeah, nineteen hundreds. The Angle school of orthodontia was the 319 00:16:50,680 --> 00:16:53,640 Speaker 1: first sort of standalone thing where it wasn't just part 320 00:16:53,720 --> 00:16:56,040 Speaker 1: of a dental school precisely, all. 321 00:16:56,000 --> 00:17:00,800 Speaker 2: Right, So some of the other advancements that thenineteenth century 322 00:17:00,920 --> 00:17:04,040 Speaker 2: contributed it can all be kind of lumped together under 323 00:17:04,040 --> 00:17:08,600 Speaker 2: the umbrella term of headgear or uh uh if you're 324 00:17:08,640 --> 00:17:13,640 Speaker 2: a teenager, which is you're using your skull and the 325 00:17:13,680 --> 00:17:18,000 Speaker 2: substance of your skull as a as a Oh, I mean, 326 00:17:18,040 --> 00:17:20,560 Speaker 2: I wish I knew classical physics terms a little better, 327 00:17:20,560 --> 00:17:25,760 Speaker 2: but essentially sure, Yes, an anchor, a counterbalance, how about 328 00:17:25,800 --> 00:17:31,000 Speaker 2: that to provide the pressure needed to pull, say, like 329 00:17:31,080 --> 00:17:34,680 Speaker 2: your jaw back. There's something called the chin cup that 330 00:17:34,760 --> 00:17:37,240 Speaker 2: you can use. I've actually seen modern pictures of it 331 00:17:37,320 --> 00:17:41,680 Speaker 2: still in use in some cases to where there's a well, 332 00:17:41,720 --> 00:17:44,480 Speaker 2: the cup for your chin. There's straps that go back 333 00:17:44,520 --> 00:17:46,600 Speaker 2: to the back of your head and around it, and 334 00:17:46,640 --> 00:17:50,000 Speaker 2: it's meant to just slowly, over time pull your lower 335 00:17:50,119 --> 00:17:54,320 Speaker 2: jaw back towards your well, you're the rest of your head, 336 00:17:54,880 --> 00:17:57,520 Speaker 2: and it can correct an underbyte. And that's as far 337 00:17:57,560 --> 00:17:59,639 Speaker 2: back as I think eighteen oh two. 338 00:18:00,320 --> 00:18:01,960 Speaker 1: I love that idea, though they were like, oh, we 339 00:18:02,000 --> 00:18:04,480 Speaker 1: need some kind of like, we need some leverage to 340 00:18:04,520 --> 00:18:06,280 Speaker 1: pull this jaw back, and we can't just have a 341 00:18:06,359 --> 00:18:09,399 Speaker 1: kid stand by a wall and attach them to a wall. 342 00:18:09,920 --> 00:18:13,200 Speaker 1: And somebody's like, well, what about their skull? Yeah, it's 343 00:18:13,240 --> 00:18:13,640 Speaker 1: right there. 344 00:18:14,280 --> 00:18:15,800 Speaker 2: Somebody went bam. 345 00:18:16,680 --> 00:18:20,080 Speaker 1: They don't use headgear as much anymore. Like you said, 346 00:18:20,119 --> 00:18:23,639 Speaker 1: it still can be used, but not like it was 347 00:18:23,760 --> 00:18:27,040 Speaker 1: used in the eighties. Luckily I never had to go 348 00:18:27,080 --> 00:18:31,760 Speaker 1: through the head gear trauma, but it was quite dramatic 349 00:18:31,760 --> 00:18:33,240 Speaker 1: when you showed up to school having to wear one 350 00:18:33,280 --> 00:18:33,560 Speaker 1: of those. 351 00:18:33,840 --> 00:18:36,480 Speaker 2: Yeah remember farmer Ted from sixteen Candles, He had to 352 00:18:36,520 --> 00:18:37,120 Speaker 2: wear one. 353 00:18:37,000 --> 00:18:39,479 Speaker 1: Farmer Ted and I think, oh, no, junk Usuck had 354 00:18:39,520 --> 00:18:40,560 Speaker 1: the neck brace. 355 00:18:40,880 --> 00:18:43,480 Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, okay, I thought that too, but no, it 356 00:18:43,520 --> 00:18:46,160 Speaker 2: was neck brace. There's a couple other people we need 357 00:18:46,200 --> 00:18:49,680 Speaker 2: to mention. Another French dentist Christophe Francois de la bar 358 00:18:50,280 --> 00:18:53,240 Speaker 2: He created the wire crib, which was I think we 359 00:18:53,320 --> 00:18:55,920 Speaker 2: said Fouchard was the one who really kind of started 360 00:18:55,920 --> 00:19:00,399 Speaker 2: the idea of braces. There's a distinct progression of linear 361 00:19:00,440 --> 00:19:04,840 Speaker 2: progression from Fouchard onward and de la Barr came up 362 00:19:04,840 --> 00:19:08,159 Speaker 2: with the wire crib, which is essentially exactly what it 363 00:19:08,200 --> 00:19:12,679 Speaker 2: sounds like. Like you take a piece of chicken wire, 364 00:19:13,200 --> 00:19:16,560 Speaker 2: fowl it over like the teeth in question, tighten it 365 00:19:16,640 --> 00:19:18,800 Speaker 2: up the way you want it, and there's your wire crib. 366 00:19:19,280 --> 00:19:23,000 Speaker 2: It's not exactly like the braces of today, but the outline, 367 00:19:23,040 --> 00:19:24,800 Speaker 2: the contours are there in it for sure. 368 00:19:25,119 --> 00:19:28,120 Speaker 1: Yeah. It started to become in the nineteenth I guess 369 00:19:28,160 --> 00:19:30,560 Speaker 1: the second half of the nineteenth century a little more scientific, 370 00:19:30,640 --> 00:19:33,040 Speaker 1: and they started to kind of put a little more 371 00:19:33,320 --> 00:19:35,879 Speaker 1: rigor into like, you know, figuring out how to do 372 00:19:35,920 --> 00:19:39,040 Speaker 1: this the right way. A guy named Norman Kingsley from 373 00:19:39,080 --> 00:19:42,800 Speaker 1: New York City, it was a very early, very popular orthodonist. 374 00:19:43,160 --> 00:19:44,920 Speaker 1: He had a treatment for cleft pallets. It was very 375 00:19:44,920 --> 00:19:48,960 Speaker 1: popular and wrote a very influential guide called a Treatise 376 00:19:49,040 --> 00:19:52,879 Speaker 1: on Oral Deformities in eighteen eighty. But and this is 377 00:19:53,000 --> 00:19:54,760 Speaker 1: something that you mentioned early on that will kind of 378 00:19:54,840 --> 00:19:57,119 Speaker 1: keep talking about a little bit here and there, is 379 00:19:57,160 --> 00:20:00,399 Speaker 1: that he was an artist and he was very interested 380 00:20:00,440 --> 00:20:04,480 Speaker 1: in facial symmetry and aesthetic. So he was, if not 381 00:20:04,560 --> 00:20:07,000 Speaker 1: the first, one of the sort of early leading guys 382 00:20:07,040 --> 00:20:09,600 Speaker 1: that was like, we want you to look good, and 383 00:20:09,800 --> 00:20:12,720 Speaker 1: it may not just be about like your bite health. 384 00:20:13,119 --> 00:20:17,320 Speaker 2: Right exactly exactly. He was also supposed to be really nice. 385 00:20:17,359 --> 00:20:18,280 Speaker 2: He had a compliment for. 386 00:20:18,280 --> 00:20:20,200 Speaker 1: Everyone he met, Oh that's nice. 387 00:20:20,840 --> 00:20:23,080 Speaker 2: So I just made that up, but I want to 388 00:20:23,119 --> 00:20:26,560 Speaker 2: believe it about it. So there's some other stuff that 389 00:20:26,680 --> 00:20:28,880 Speaker 2: kind of came along little by little. They were like, oh, okay, 390 00:20:28,960 --> 00:20:31,199 Speaker 2: well let's tackle this. One thing that you can be 391 00:20:31,240 --> 00:20:36,000 Speaker 2: born with is a narrow maxillary arch. That is the 392 00:20:36,119 --> 00:20:41,639 Speaker 2: jawline on the top of your mouth. The row of 393 00:20:41,680 --> 00:20:45,719 Speaker 2: your row of top teeth are connected to your maxillary arch. 394 00:20:45,920 --> 00:20:48,119 Speaker 2: Yeah about that, the roof of your mouth, yeah, the 395 00:20:48,200 --> 00:20:52,160 Speaker 2: lower set of teeth is connected to the mandibular arch. 396 00:20:52,520 --> 00:20:54,720 Speaker 2: Either way, you can be born with one or both 397 00:20:54,760 --> 00:20:57,399 Speaker 2: of them narrowed. So they figured out you can put 398 00:20:57,760 --> 00:21:02,400 Speaker 2: essentially an appliance of stick in between them and adjust 399 00:21:02,440 --> 00:21:07,200 Speaker 2: it slowly but surely over time. And press your jaw apart. 400 00:21:08,400 --> 00:21:11,000 Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean that is still a thing. My daughter 401 00:21:11,080 --> 00:21:14,280 Speaker 1: has that. It's called an expander. I guess it was 402 00:21:14,320 --> 00:21:17,160 Speaker 1: called that back then too, but and like her two 403 00:21:17,160 --> 00:21:19,199 Speaker 1: friends abracist both had it too, so I think that 404 00:21:19,280 --> 00:21:23,120 Speaker 1: maybe way more regular now. I don't know anyone from 405 00:21:23,160 --> 00:21:26,280 Speaker 1: my our days in high school that had something like that, So. 406 00:21:26,920 --> 00:21:29,000 Speaker 2: I think the original one was they would put the 407 00:21:29,080 --> 00:21:33,200 Speaker 2: screw bar in between, say, your back molars, because they're 408 00:21:33,240 --> 00:21:37,040 Speaker 2: pretty substantial and just over time slowly adjusted. I guess 409 00:21:37,080 --> 00:21:42,320 Speaker 2: probably every visit, and that would press the whole arch apart. 410 00:21:42,600 --> 00:21:44,320 Speaker 2: Is that essentially what they're doing still today. 411 00:21:44,600 --> 00:21:47,480 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's like a wire cage that lives on the 412 00:21:47,560 --> 00:21:49,880 Speaker 1: roof of your mouth. It's attached to those rear molars 413 00:21:50,920 --> 00:21:52,359 Speaker 1: and they yeah, you go in there and they crank 414 00:21:52,400 --> 00:21:55,000 Speaker 1: it out and make more room like the and it 415 00:21:55,160 --> 00:21:57,720 Speaker 1: really works because the space between her front two teeth 416 00:21:58,480 --> 00:22:02,200 Speaker 1: got comically large, like you could fit a whole extra 417 00:22:02,280 --> 00:22:04,639 Speaker 1: tooth in between. Oh wow when this thing was at 418 00:22:04,680 --> 00:22:08,080 Speaker 1: its most. But they're basically just creating room for the future. 419 00:22:08,840 --> 00:22:11,400 Speaker 2: Was the dentist like or the orthodonist like I've done 420 00:22:11,440 --> 00:22:13,920 Speaker 2: too much? No, you know, coming back now. 421 00:22:13,880 --> 00:22:15,840 Speaker 1: He's like, I got a new record. Everyone get in here, 422 00:22:15,840 --> 00:22:16,199 Speaker 1: look at this. 423 00:22:16,200 --> 00:22:20,520 Speaker 2: Carder, right, So I think you said we talked about 424 00:22:20,520 --> 00:22:24,520 Speaker 2: how the first orthodontial school was established by Edward Engel 425 00:22:24,560 --> 00:22:27,960 Speaker 2: in nineteen hundred. Even before that, most of the people 426 00:22:28,000 --> 00:22:33,280 Speaker 2: practicing orthodontire were now not only MD's but also doctors 427 00:22:33,359 --> 00:22:36,960 Speaker 2: of dental surgery DDS, so they were really well trained 428 00:22:37,200 --> 00:22:41,680 Speaker 2: in medicine. And the reason why not coincidentally is this 429 00:22:41,720 --> 00:22:45,560 Speaker 2: is because of a shift of direction that orthodontire went 430 00:22:45,600 --> 00:22:48,879 Speaker 2: in to basically say like, let's get even more scientific 431 00:22:48,920 --> 00:22:50,760 Speaker 2: about this, and well they did. 432 00:22:51,280 --> 00:22:53,960 Speaker 1: Yeah. There was a guy named John Nutting Farrar who 433 00:22:54,119 --> 00:22:59,360 Speaker 1: some people called the father of American orthodontics or modern orthodontics. 434 00:23:00,080 --> 00:23:04,160 Speaker 1: House I was raising, he was the guy that was like, hey, 435 00:23:04,640 --> 00:23:07,400 Speaker 1: let me do some actual experiments and on animals and things, 436 00:23:07,400 --> 00:23:09,879 Speaker 1: and let me see, like that thing that we crank 437 00:23:09,880 --> 00:23:13,480 Speaker 1: apart your teeth, let me see how much the human 438 00:23:13,520 --> 00:23:16,320 Speaker 1: body can like how much pain they can endure to 439 00:23:16,440 --> 00:23:19,040 Speaker 1: move those teeth like and I'm the kind of kidding, 440 00:23:19,040 --> 00:23:21,480 Speaker 1: but basically like, let's find a happy medium between how 441 00:23:21,480 --> 00:23:23,920 Speaker 1: far we can expand and how much like a child 442 00:23:23,960 --> 00:23:24,400 Speaker 1: can take. 443 00:23:24,840 --> 00:23:27,520 Speaker 2: Yeah. What's worse though, is he wasn't experimenting on children. 444 00:23:27,520 --> 00:23:29,800 Speaker 2: He was experimenting on animals, which I picked, I. 445 00:23:29,840 --> 00:23:33,080 Speaker 1: Mean dogs, Yeah, I guess. 446 00:23:33,400 --> 00:23:39,399 Speaker 2: Yeah, So yeah that's for our What about Edward Angle 447 00:23:39,440 --> 00:23:42,119 Speaker 2: who we talked about. This guy is probably the one, 448 00:23:42,400 --> 00:23:44,880 Speaker 2: I mean my dad at least always called the house 449 00:23:44,920 --> 00:23:46,520 Speaker 2: father of American orthodonics. 450 00:23:47,320 --> 00:23:50,919 Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean he's the guy that definitely made it 451 00:23:51,040 --> 00:23:54,720 Speaker 1: such a bona fide business. And I think he found 452 00:23:54,760 --> 00:23:56,800 Speaker 1: out much like a lot of different ways to make 453 00:23:56,800 --> 00:23:59,760 Speaker 1: a lot of money. And you know, one way was 454 00:23:59,800 --> 00:24:05,680 Speaker 1: like developing devices and patenting devices. Another way was creating 455 00:24:06,800 --> 00:24:10,000 Speaker 1: like ready made appliances. He created the Angle system in 456 00:24:10,040 --> 00:24:13,000 Speaker 1: eighteen eighty seven. So it's like instead of like building 457 00:24:13,040 --> 00:24:15,600 Speaker 1: these things from scratch for every patient, like I can 458 00:24:15,640 --> 00:24:18,520 Speaker 1: just sell you this system that has all these prefab 459 00:24:18,560 --> 00:24:21,720 Speaker 1: parts that can be combined in different ways to suit 460 00:24:21,760 --> 00:24:22,240 Speaker 1: your needs. 461 00:24:22,600 --> 00:24:24,760 Speaker 2: Yeah, because I mean there's only so many ways that 462 00:24:24,800 --> 00:24:29,320 Speaker 2: your teeth can be wonky, right, So yeah, that was revolutionary. 463 00:24:29,359 --> 00:24:33,000 Speaker 2: I'm sure that just immediately pushed the field forward. And 464 00:24:33,080 --> 00:24:35,639 Speaker 2: if that wasn't enough, he also came up with a 465 00:24:35,720 --> 00:24:40,840 Speaker 2: measurement system called the occlusal classification system that's still in 466 00:24:40,960 --> 00:24:45,919 Speaker 2: use today one hundred and thirty something years later, that 467 00:24:45,960 --> 00:24:48,919 Speaker 2: they uses the basis like that is the norm. Yeah, 468 00:24:48,960 --> 00:24:52,080 Speaker 2: and that's what they used to measure anything in a 469 00:24:52,119 --> 00:24:56,840 Speaker 2: patient's mouth that's deviated from the norm. He also, in 470 00:24:56,880 --> 00:25:00,680 Speaker 2: addition to founding that first school of orthodontia, he founded 471 00:25:00,680 --> 00:25:04,159 Speaker 2: the Society of Orthodonists, which is now the American Association 472 00:25:04,240 --> 00:25:09,199 Speaker 2: of Orthodonists. He founded the first orthodonic journal, which is 473 00:25:09,240 --> 00:25:13,640 Speaker 2: known today as tooth Fancy. 474 00:25:13,920 --> 00:25:17,440 Speaker 1: Oh man, what a nightmare magazine for me. It would 475 00:25:17,520 --> 00:25:19,399 Speaker 1: be somebody, just you can punk me and give me 476 00:25:19,480 --> 00:25:22,720 Speaker 1: subscription to tooth Fancy. All right, this guy had so 477 00:25:22,760 --> 00:25:27,000 Speaker 1: many income streams. Who's you know, clearly a great orthodonists 478 00:25:27,000 --> 00:25:30,600 Speaker 1: and dentist, but also a seemingly pretty savvy business guy. 479 00:25:30,920 --> 00:25:34,320 Speaker 2: Yeah, but yeah, he was revered. I'm sure he's still 480 00:25:34,359 --> 00:25:36,640 Speaker 2: revered in the halls of orthodontire. 481 00:25:37,040 --> 00:25:38,120 Speaker 1: Certain halls. 482 00:25:39,920 --> 00:25:42,640 Speaker 2: Oh there's another This apparently is a debate that still 483 00:25:42,720 --> 00:25:46,520 Speaker 2: rages today. At some point somebody said, hey, you know, 484 00:25:46,640 --> 00:25:51,359 Speaker 2: we usually try to step in earlier in development, like 485 00:25:51,760 --> 00:25:54,080 Speaker 2: to work on younger kids, I think is the way 486 00:25:54,119 --> 00:25:58,600 Speaker 2: they put it. But sometimes adults need help too. So 487 00:25:58,840 --> 00:26:01,439 Speaker 2: a lot of us are just pulling teeth maybe to 488 00:26:01,480 --> 00:26:05,320 Speaker 2: make space or whatever. Should we be doing that? And 489 00:26:05,680 --> 00:26:08,439 Speaker 2: some people said yes, some people said no, and a 490 00:26:08,560 --> 00:26:11,760 Speaker 2: rift was formed that again still exists today in the 491 00:26:11,880 --> 00:26:12,800 Speaker 2: orthodonic field. 492 00:26:13,160 --> 00:26:16,080 Speaker 1: Yeah, a rift so wide. It was like the gap 493 00:26:16,119 --> 00:26:19,119 Speaker 1: between my daughter's teeth at maximum expansion. 494 00:26:19,760 --> 00:26:20,439 Speaker 2: It's a ricker. 495 00:26:21,240 --> 00:26:23,719 Speaker 1: Should we take another break? Yeah, all right, we'll come 496 00:26:23,760 --> 00:26:27,080 Speaker 1: back and finish up on braces right after this. Stop. 497 00:26:45,640 --> 00:26:49,080 Speaker 1: All right. If we're talking modern tooth straightening, we're talking 498 00:26:49,080 --> 00:26:52,119 Speaker 1: about braces generally. I mean, I guess they still have 499 00:26:52,160 --> 00:26:55,280 Speaker 1: retainers and stuff, but I feel like I see less 500 00:26:55,320 --> 00:26:56,879 Speaker 1: and less of that, and it's more just sort of 501 00:26:56,920 --> 00:27:00,000 Speaker 1: straight into braces. I feel like when we were kids, 502 00:27:00,040 --> 00:27:01,840 Speaker 1: so like, yeah, we can probably fix this with a retainer. 503 00:27:02,080 --> 00:27:04,919 Speaker 2: I thought the retainer was like post braces. That was 504 00:27:05,000 --> 00:27:05,800 Speaker 2: my experience. 505 00:27:05,960 --> 00:27:09,160 Speaker 1: I think that can be true too. Okay, but I'm 506 00:27:09,160 --> 00:27:11,720 Speaker 1: pretty like my brother got a retainer and not braces 507 00:27:11,840 --> 00:27:12,359 Speaker 1: of course. 508 00:27:12,760 --> 00:27:18,320 Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm sure his retainer somehow made him money too, accidentally. 509 00:27:18,000 --> 00:27:21,959 Speaker 1: Oh man, God bless him. So a lot of people 510 00:27:22,119 --> 00:27:25,520 Speaker 1: had kind of shipped in to come up with things 511 00:27:25,520 --> 00:27:29,880 Speaker 1: were basically like brace's one guy that was pretty key 512 00:27:30,040 --> 00:27:33,920 Speaker 1: was name doctor Raymond Beg. His nickname was Tick. Do 513 00:27:33,960 --> 00:27:35,480 Speaker 1: you know why I didn't find out why. 514 00:27:35,720 --> 00:27:38,400 Speaker 2: I could not find other than that he was Australian. 515 00:27:38,440 --> 00:27:39,520 Speaker 2: That's the best I can come. 516 00:27:39,480 --> 00:27:44,240 Speaker 1: Up with, all right. But he was a student of Angle, 517 00:27:45,119 --> 00:27:48,920 Speaker 1: I guess, at that school of orthodontia. Orthodontia, Yeah, Orthodontia. 518 00:27:49,480 --> 00:27:51,560 Speaker 1: And he moved to Australia or I guess went back 519 00:27:51,600 --> 00:27:55,359 Speaker 1: to Australia where he practiced in Adelaide, Lovely area. And 520 00:27:55,400 --> 00:27:58,520 Speaker 1: this was in the nineteen thirties, and he developed like 521 00:28:00,080 --> 00:28:03,560 Speaker 1: using stainless steel wire instead of precious metals, And I 522 00:28:03,600 --> 00:28:06,200 Speaker 1: think didn't they use precious metals because they were malleable 523 00:28:06,240 --> 00:28:07,440 Speaker 1: but that caused problems. 524 00:28:08,840 --> 00:28:11,560 Speaker 2: Yeah, well, they're they're very expensive and gold like you 525 00:28:11,600 --> 00:28:13,919 Speaker 2: can't make a crown out of gold because eventually it'll 526 00:28:13,960 --> 00:28:18,480 Speaker 2: it'll mash. But they were prized because they don't react 527 00:28:19,280 --> 00:28:21,960 Speaker 2: with other stuff, Like you can need all the cheetos 528 00:28:21,960 --> 00:28:25,720 Speaker 2: you want and your gold's not going to rust. It's 529 00:28:25,760 --> 00:28:29,280 Speaker 2: not poisonous like mercury, which apparently they still use in 530 00:28:29,359 --> 00:28:33,879 Speaker 2: fillings in some places. Oh okay, yeah, so it But 531 00:28:33,920 --> 00:28:37,160 Speaker 2: they're they're expensive, so people came up with alloys now today, 532 00:28:37,160 --> 00:28:40,680 Speaker 2: although sometimes you still will see like gold or platinum 533 00:28:40,760 --> 00:28:47,040 Speaker 2: or silver alloy sometimes fused with ceramic for implants and stuff. Yeah. 534 00:28:47,160 --> 00:28:50,120 Speaker 1: Well, the stainless steel, I mean, that's still that came 535 00:28:50,160 --> 00:28:53,080 Speaker 1: about in what nineteen fifty six here in the States, 536 00:28:54,080 --> 00:28:58,520 Speaker 1: and racist became you know, really more popular over that time, 537 00:28:58,600 --> 00:29:00,280 Speaker 1: kind of starting in the fifties, but really in the 538 00:29:00,280 --> 00:29:03,320 Speaker 1: seventies and eighties. I think an estimate from the AAO 539 00:29:03,400 --> 00:29:06,880 Speaker 1: found the number of Americans who wear braces doubled between 540 00:29:06,920 --> 00:29:10,080 Speaker 1: eighty two and two thousand and eight. Yeah, and you know, 541 00:29:10,120 --> 00:29:13,200 Speaker 1: they've evolved over the years they had. I was not 542 00:29:13,280 --> 00:29:14,920 Speaker 1: one of the first, but it was pretty early on. 543 00:29:15,040 --> 00:29:18,040 Speaker 1: My second set of braces were ceramic that like the 544 00:29:18,120 --> 00:29:21,960 Speaker 1: clear braces, which was a little bit better, but it 545 00:29:22,000 --> 00:29:25,600 Speaker 1: was not you know, you still had brace face, just 546 00:29:25,640 --> 00:29:28,240 Speaker 1: a little less obvious. It's not like, you know, you 547 00:29:28,240 --> 00:29:31,280 Speaker 1: couldn't tell or anything like that. Whereas my first braces 548 00:29:31,280 --> 00:29:33,560 Speaker 1: were it was early enough where they were the wrap 549 00:29:33,600 --> 00:29:36,440 Speaker 1: around like an entire silver band around each tooth. 550 00:29:36,800 --> 00:29:37,080 Speaker 2: M hm. 551 00:29:37,360 --> 00:29:39,760 Speaker 1: It wasn't like glued on. Yeah, right. 552 00:29:40,520 --> 00:29:43,600 Speaker 2: One thing though about that huge increase the doubling of 553 00:29:43,640 --> 00:29:46,080 Speaker 2: people with braces between eighty two and two thousand and eight. 554 00:29:46,320 --> 00:29:48,520 Speaker 2: I was like, that doesn't track with my experience. For me, 555 00:29:49,000 --> 00:29:51,840 Speaker 2: it was the eighties where everybody's wearing braces. And then 556 00:29:51,880 --> 00:29:55,120 Speaker 2: I realized that that's because I knew the most people 557 00:29:55,240 --> 00:29:57,640 Speaker 2: wearing braces in the eighties, because that's when I was 558 00:29:57,680 --> 00:29:59,680 Speaker 2: in elementary and middle school. 559 00:30:00,000 --> 00:30:01,440 Speaker 1: Oh well, yeah, sure, yeah. 560 00:30:01,560 --> 00:30:03,240 Speaker 2: It was just a kind of bias I thought. 561 00:30:03,080 --> 00:30:05,160 Speaker 1: Was great proximity bias. 562 00:30:05,880 --> 00:30:08,360 Speaker 2: I looked and I could not figure out which one 563 00:30:08,480 --> 00:30:11,120 Speaker 2: it was. Maybe the frequency illusion is the best I 564 00:30:11,120 --> 00:30:11,960 Speaker 2: could go okay with. 565 00:30:12,040 --> 00:30:15,560 Speaker 1: That makes sense. I didn't. Is it proximity bias even 566 00:30:15,560 --> 00:30:16,520 Speaker 1: a thing that I make that up? 567 00:30:17,160 --> 00:30:19,000 Speaker 2: If it's not, it should because it's got a great, 568 00:30:19,080 --> 00:30:21,160 Speaker 2: great name. It really has legs. 569 00:30:21,560 --> 00:30:23,360 Speaker 1: They also have braces that go in the back of 570 00:30:23,360 --> 00:30:26,160 Speaker 1: your teeth. One of my good friends had those, and those, 571 00:30:26,600 --> 00:30:28,360 Speaker 1: you know, can't be used in all cases, but that's 572 00:30:28,360 --> 00:30:31,080 Speaker 1: the ones where you really score as a teenager for sure. 573 00:30:31,480 --> 00:30:35,160 Speaker 2: And then I guess those aren't invisible ligners. Those are just. 574 00:30:35,240 --> 00:30:37,920 Speaker 1: Rear braces, right, yeah, party rear. 575 00:30:38,200 --> 00:30:40,800 Speaker 2: Well, before we get onto invisible liners, which also created 576 00:30:41,160 --> 00:30:45,560 Speaker 2: quite a rift in orthodonics. There's something that I guess 577 00:30:45,640 --> 00:30:49,240 Speaker 2: it's the new standard maybe today, called self ligating braces. 578 00:30:49,840 --> 00:30:53,120 Speaker 2: So with traditional braces, you have that wire's been around 579 00:30:53,120 --> 00:30:56,160 Speaker 2: since Fouchard, you have the brackets that actually attached to 580 00:30:56,200 --> 00:30:59,320 Speaker 2: your teeth, and then you have little tiny rubber bands 581 00:30:59,520 --> 00:31:02,880 Speaker 2: that attack the brackets to the wire. Right, With self 582 00:31:02,920 --> 00:31:06,520 Speaker 2: ligating braces, there's just the wire and the brackets, and 583 00:31:06,560 --> 00:31:09,400 Speaker 2: apparently it makes it way easier to clean. It makes 584 00:31:09,400 --> 00:31:11,360 Speaker 2: it way easier to adjust when you switch out the 585 00:31:11,360 --> 00:31:13,760 Speaker 2: wire for a thicker wire over time, because there's a 586 00:31:13,760 --> 00:31:17,640 Speaker 2: little snap in the bracket that holds that wire in place. 587 00:31:17,680 --> 00:31:20,920 Speaker 2: And they just look like the future to me. 588 00:31:21,480 --> 00:31:25,240 Speaker 1: Yeah. You can also get colored braces now too, which 589 00:31:25,320 --> 00:31:27,600 Speaker 1: is a big thing if you get them young, like 590 00:31:27,640 --> 00:31:29,479 Speaker 1: my daughter, she has purple braces. 591 00:31:29,520 --> 00:31:33,520 Speaker 2: Oh that's cool, loud proud. I guess. Now onto invisible 592 00:31:33,640 --> 00:31:37,120 Speaker 2: ligners because this was kind of a big deal to Caltech. 593 00:31:38,440 --> 00:31:41,200 Speaker 2: They might have been students at the time. Zia Chishti 594 00:31:41,520 --> 00:31:44,040 Speaker 2: and Kelsey Worth invented them all the way back in 595 00:31:44,080 --> 00:31:46,840 Speaker 2: nineteen ninety seven, and within just three years we had 596 00:31:46,840 --> 00:31:48,320 Speaker 2: in visi line on the market. 597 00:31:48,800 --> 00:31:51,160 Speaker 1: Yeah, my brother used these for a while too, and 598 00:31:51,200 --> 00:31:54,120 Speaker 1: this is something that you it's to avoid going to 599 00:31:54,200 --> 00:31:56,160 Speaker 1: the orthodonists, I guess, and paying like a lot of 600 00:31:56,200 --> 00:32:00,520 Speaker 1: money for permanent or not permanent but you know, temporarily 601 00:32:00,600 --> 00:32:03,040 Speaker 1: glued on braces. This is something that you can you know, 602 00:32:03,040 --> 00:32:04,880 Speaker 1: it fits over your teeth and you can take them 603 00:32:04,880 --> 00:32:05,480 Speaker 1: on and off. 604 00:32:06,120 --> 00:32:11,360 Speaker 2: Sure any involvement in this industry, it's been pushed so 605 00:32:11,440 --> 00:32:15,760 Speaker 2: far outside of traditional orthodonics that any orthodontist who is 606 00:32:15,800 --> 00:32:21,320 Speaker 2: a critic of orthodonture and it's like questionable scientific basis, 607 00:32:22,520 --> 00:32:26,240 Speaker 2: they they the orthodonic community will use their involvement with 608 00:32:26,320 --> 00:32:29,720 Speaker 2: this industry to discredit them. That's how that's how reviled 609 00:32:29,760 --> 00:32:32,640 Speaker 2: it is among mainstream orthodonics now. 610 00:32:32,760 --> 00:32:35,520 Speaker 1: Is that because they genuinely think it's no good or 611 00:32:35,520 --> 00:32:38,240 Speaker 1: it's genuinely no good for their practice, no. 612 00:32:38,240 --> 00:32:40,800 Speaker 2: Good for their practice, because it's not so much the 613 00:32:40,960 --> 00:32:43,880 Speaker 2: invisible liners. It's the fact that you can order them 614 00:32:43,880 --> 00:32:47,920 Speaker 2: yourself online and they'll like you're they're just totally cut 615 00:32:47,960 --> 00:32:51,440 Speaker 2: out of the loop. So it's that's it's specifically the 616 00:32:51,480 --> 00:32:54,520 Speaker 2: online ordering version that they have such an aversion to. 617 00:32:55,040 --> 00:32:56,680 Speaker 1: I'm surprised they didn't think of a way to get 618 00:32:56,680 --> 00:32:59,080 Speaker 1: a piece of that business. You know. 619 00:32:59,200 --> 00:33:01,240 Speaker 2: It happened. Happened while they were sleeping. 620 00:33:01,880 --> 00:33:03,920 Speaker 1: Yeah, and I need to ask my brother how well 621 00:33:03,960 --> 00:33:05,800 Speaker 1: they worked for him, because I know he woren for 622 00:33:05,840 --> 00:33:06,400 Speaker 1: a little while. 623 00:33:06,720 --> 00:33:08,960 Speaker 2: I think they work if you have just slight adjustments 624 00:33:09,000 --> 00:33:10,959 Speaker 2: you need to make. But if you have like a 625 00:33:11,000 --> 00:33:16,040 Speaker 2: really like a big deal in the wonky department, then 626 00:33:16,280 --> 00:33:19,760 Speaker 2: you should go with braces. One other big check in 627 00:33:19,840 --> 00:33:24,280 Speaker 2: the favor of braces over invisible liners. You can adjust 628 00:33:24,720 --> 00:33:27,959 Speaker 2: the braces throughout the treatment. I need a little more 629 00:33:27,960 --> 00:33:29,960 Speaker 2: pressure here, a little less here. You can't do that 630 00:33:30,000 --> 00:33:32,880 Speaker 2: with invisible liners. Once you send them the mold of 631 00:33:32,920 --> 00:33:36,640 Speaker 2: your mouth, they send you the braces back, and that's that. 632 00:33:36,920 --> 00:33:39,280 Speaker 2: I think you get multiple ones, but it's much less 633 00:33:39,280 --> 00:33:42,400 Speaker 2: precise over time as braces. 634 00:33:42,880 --> 00:33:47,280 Speaker 1: Right. Livia found this, and I didn't know this is 635 00:33:47,320 --> 00:33:49,400 Speaker 1: a thing, but apparently she found that there are some 636 00:33:49,440 --> 00:33:54,200 Speaker 1: anecdotal evidence at least of young people wanting braces as 637 00:33:54,200 --> 00:33:57,800 Speaker 1: a fashion statement, like a decorative fashion brace that you 638 00:33:57,840 --> 00:33:59,400 Speaker 1: can get online. 639 00:34:00,520 --> 00:34:04,240 Speaker 2: Yeah. I saw some article written by some square that 640 00:34:04,360 --> 00:34:09,280 Speaker 2: said non prescription glasses and fashion braces are the big 641 00:34:09,320 --> 00:34:10,640 Speaker 2: things right now. 642 00:34:11,120 --> 00:34:13,680 Speaker 1: Man, oh man, I mean, I were you know very 643 00:34:13,680 --> 00:34:17,680 Speaker 1: famously were fake glasses to seem smarter when I was younger, 644 00:34:18,719 --> 00:34:21,520 Speaker 1: But you couldn't have caught me dead with fake braces. 645 00:34:21,640 --> 00:34:24,439 Speaker 2: No, it doesn't make any sense, and I also kind 646 00:34:24,440 --> 00:34:26,960 Speaker 2: of suspect it might be an urban legend. 647 00:34:27,719 --> 00:34:28,239 Speaker 1: I do too. 648 00:34:28,920 --> 00:34:30,880 Speaker 2: One thing that doesn't seem to be an urban legend 649 00:34:30,880 --> 00:34:35,200 Speaker 2: that I saw there was gap bands, apparently people kind 650 00:34:35,200 --> 00:34:36,879 Speaker 2: of but with an S on the end of band, 651 00:34:39,160 --> 00:34:42,160 Speaker 2: where you use like a kind of like a really 652 00:34:42,200 --> 00:34:47,759 Speaker 2: strong rubber band. You put it on the tooth you 653 00:34:47,800 --> 00:34:50,799 Speaker 2: want to straighten out, and then connect the other one 654 00:34:50,840 --> 00:34:54,040 Speaker 2: to a straight tooth to use it as leverage, and 655 00:34:54,160 --> 00:34:58,200 Speaker 2: apparently it works really fast. Again, the orthodontric communities like 656 00:34:58,280 --> 00:35:02,000 Speaker 2: don't do those. Supposedly with some eight year old boy 657 00:35:02,040 --> 00:35:05,960 Speaker 2: in grease who had done this himself, but the rubber 658 00:35:06,000 --> 00:35:10,360 Speaker 2: band went up into his gums, and according to these people, 659 00:35:10,680 --> 00:35:13,400 Speaker 2: he didn't notice, and it just ate away at the 660 00:35:13,400 --> 00:35:16,520 Speaker 2: tissue up there and he ended up losing the very teeth, 661 00:35:16,600 --> 00:35:18,560 Speaker 2: I think, his front teeth that he was trying to 662 00:35:18,560 --> 00:35:21,279 Speaker 2: straighten in the first place. That too, sounds a bit 663 00:35:21,320 --> 00:35:23,520 Speaker 2: like an urban legend, but I saw it in enough 664 00:35:23,560 --> 00:35:26,560 Speaker 2: places that I wonder if it might be based on 665 00:35:26,600 --> 00:35:28,440 Speaker 2: some sort of legitimate story somewhere. 666 00:35:29,080 --> 00:35:31,239 Speaker 1: I could see that. I mean, I you know, you 667 00:35:31,280 --> 00:35:34,040 Speaker 1: probably use rubber bands along with your braces. 668 00:35:33,760 --> 00:35:35,080 Speaker 2: Right, I never had braces. 669 00:35:35,320 --> 00:35:36,359 Speaker 1: Oh, you never had them at all. 670 00:35:36,520 --> 00:35:38,200 Speaker 2: I did not need them as a kid. It wasn't 671 00:35:38,280 --> 00:35:40,200 Speaker 2: until I was an adult that I started to kind 672 00:35:40,200 --> 00:35:42,760 Speaker 2: of need them for my lower teeth. 673 00:35:43,160 --> 00:35:45,120 Speaker 1: You got pretty good teeth, though, I've never noticed your 674 00:35:45,160 --> 00:35:47,480 Speaker 1: teeth being crooked or whatever. 675 00:35:47,640 --> 00:35:50,920 Speaker 2: That's because I don't smile and show my lower teeth 676 00:35:51,320 --> 00:35:53,640 Speaker 2: number one, because I'm not insane. But number two, because 677 00:35:53,680 --> 00:35:56,600 Speaker 2: those are the ones that are crooked. Luckily, it's my 678 00:35:56,719 --> 00:35:58,800 Speaker 2: top row that's pretty straight. So when I smile, it 679 00:35:58,840 --> 00:36:00,879 Speaker 2: looks like my teeth are great. But if I hey, 680 00:36:02,560 --> 00:36:04,680 Speaker 2: they really Yeah, with the a lot on there, just 681 00:36:04,800 --> 00:36:08,719 Speaker 2: kind of that was pretty good play acting too, by 682 00:36:08,719 --> 00:36:09,560 Speaker 2: the way, Yeah, it was good. 683 00:36:10,640 --> 00:36:13,520 Speaker 1: All right. So let's talk about some stats. A few 684 00:36:13,560 --> 00:36:17,200 Speaker 1: years ago, in twenty twenty two, three point one five 685 00:36:17,280 --> 00:36:20,840 Speaker 1: million kids between eight and seventeen were getting orthodonic treatment. 686 00:36:23,160 --> 00:36:26,320 Speaker 1: This sounds way low to me. Seven point four percent 687 00:36:26,360 --> 00:36:29,120 Speaker 1: of that age group is all that was. There were 688 00:36:29,120 --> 00:36:32,440 Speaker 1: other estimates that say about half of kids receive some 689 00:36:32,560 --> 00:36:36,440 Speaker 1: kind of orthodonic treatment at some point. That seems low 690 00:36:36,480 --> 00:36:38,759 Speaker 1: to me too, just based on anecdotal what I'm seeing 691 00:36:38,800 --> 00:36:40,279 Speaker 1: around me. But you know, maybe that's right. 692 00:36:40,760 --> 00:36:43,439 Speaker 2: So kids like you were saying, it's just basically part 693 00:36:43,440 --> 00:36:45,880 Speaker 2: of being a kid today, you get braces at some point. 694 00:36:46,120 --> 00:36:48,920 Speaker 1: It seems like it. I just I feel like Ruby 695 00:36:48,960 --> 00:36:51,480 Speaker 1: and most of her friends have braces. 696 00:36:51,840 --> 00:36:55,040 Speaker 2: I mean that tracks I found a statistic that in 697 00:36:55,080 --> 00:36:59,960 Speaker 2: the US alone, out of pocket spending amounts to five 698 00:37:00,040 --> 00:37:04,279 Speaker 2: almost five and a half billion dollars a year. I'm orthodonture, 699 00:37:04,680 --> 00:37:07,879 Speaker 2: and then insurance and medicaid covers an additional four point 700 00:37:07,880 --> 00:37:10,240 Speaker 2: two billion, So it's like a ten billion dollar industry 701 00:37:10,400 --> 00:37:11,960 Speaker 2: just in the United States alone. 702 00:37:12,960 --> 00:37:16,160 Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, and you know, kind of going back 703 00:37:16,160 --> 00:37:18,680 Speaker 1: as we'll finish up here to the beginning of like 704 00:37:19,000 --> 00:37:22,799 Speaker 1: is this a medical issue or is it just to create, like, 705 00:37:22,960 --> 00:37:26,760 Speaker 1: you know, kids without self esteem problems because they're maybe 706 00:37:26,880 --> 00:37:31,920 Speaker 1: have crooked teeth. And certainly the rise of Hollywood and 707 00:37:31,960 --> 00:37:33,920 Speaker 1: it used to say something sort of about class. I 708 00:37:33,960 --> 00:37:38,399 Speaker 1: think it's still still can unfortunately, and you know, with 709 00:37:38,400 --> 00:37:42,880 Speaker 1: with movies and advertisements and TV and stuff like that, YouTube, 710 00:37:43,120 --> 00:37:47,239 Speaker 1: social media, straight teeth is the thing. And you know, 711 00:37:47,280 --> 00:37:49,960 Speaker 1: starting the post war era, like especially with young girls, 712 00:37:50,320 --> 00:37:52,520 Speaker 1: they were saying, hey, you got little self esteem, it's 713 00:37:52,560 --> 00:37:53,880 Speaker 1: probably because of your teeth. 714 00:37:54,520 --> 00:37:58,080 Speaker 2: I wonder though, so that that class thing, the socioeconomic 715 00:37:58,120 --> 00:38:01,279 Speaker 2: part of it, that actually makes it hard to study orthodonics, 716 00:38:01,320 --> 00:38:06,320 Speaker 2: because if you want to study people with say braces 717 00:38:06,400 --> 00:38:10,239 Speaker 2: or something like that, you're automatically working from another kind 718 00:38:10,239 --> 00:38:13,440 Speaker 2: of bias, a selection bias, because they are probably from 719 00:38:13,800 --> 00:38:17,040 Speaker 2: a higher socioeconomic class than that average person who doesn't 720 00:38:17,080 --> 00:38:19,600 Speaker 2: have braces, because so much of it is paid for 721 00:38:19,680 --> 00:38:22,520 Speaker 2: out of pocket. But it occurred to me just now, Chuck, 722 00:38:22,520 --> 00:38:25,840 Speaker 2: Well you're saying that that I wonder if that whole 723 00:38:25,840 --> 00:38:29,520 Speaker 2: thing about them fixing health issues or whatever is essentially 724 00:38:29,520 --> 00:38:32,719 Speaker 2: made up to get insurance companies to cover what otherwise 725 00:38:32,719 --> 00:38:36,600 Speaker 2: would be considered cosmetic. So they're actually doing it strictly 726 00:38:36,640 --> 00:38:38,759 Speaker 2: for esthetic purposes, but they're trying to make it so 727 00:38:38,920 --> 00:38:41,279 Speaker 2: you the parent, don't have to pay for all of 728 00:38:41,320 --> 00:38:44,279 Speaker 2: it out of pocket. Maybe that's what's going on here. 729 00:38:44,840 --> 00:38:47,160 Speaker 1: Maybe. I mean, this is the kind of thing that's 730 00:38:47,200 --> 00:38:49,399 Speaker 1: really hard to study as far as whether or not 731 00:38:49,560 --> 00:38:53,960 Speaker 1: there is a medical benefit or need, because and Lvia 732 00:38:53,960 --> 00:38:57,600 Speaker 1: points us out. You know, you've got to conduct randomized trials, 733 00:38:57,640 --> 00:38:59,920 Speaker 1: So you have to find a large group of people 734 00:39:00,440 --> 00:39:03,800 Speaker 1: who have, you know, pretty similar dental profiles, and you 735 00:39:03,880 --> 00:39:05,640 Speaker 1: got to have one group that you get braces to 736 00:39:06,160 --> 00:39:08,560 Speaker 1: and then a control group that you don't, and then 737 00:39:08,640 --> 00:39:11,359 Speaker 1: follow them over a long period of time to see 738 00:39:11,360 --> 00:39:14,080 Speaker 1: what kind of problems developed, like headaches or something. And 739 00:39:14,160 --> 00:39:17,000 Speaker 1: that's just really that's a tough study to pull off. 740 00:39:17,400 --> 00:39:22,120 Speaker 2: Yeah, and again, I mean the study population you're drawing from, like, 741 00:39:22,400 --> 00:39:24,640 Speaker 2: nobody's going to do that. So if you're studying people 742 00:39:24,680 --> 00:39:28,240 Speaker 2: who already have braces, you're automatically working with that selection 743 00:39:28,320 --> 00:39:30,600 Speaker 2: bias because they're more likely to be from a higher 744 00:39:30,640 --> 00:39:35,440 Speaker 2: socioeconomic group. Yeah, totally, you got anything else about braces? 745 00:39:36,320 --> 00:39:38,560 Speaker 1: The only thing I'll add I had the two kinds 746 00:39:38,560 --> 00:39:41,400 Speaker 1: of braces. Oh, For many years after the braces, I 747 00:39:41,440 --> 00:39:45,800 Speaker 1: had this bar put on the back of my lower 748 00:39:45,840 --> 00:39:49,560 Speaker 1: teeth that span like the front five and that was 749 00:39:49,600 --> 00:39:53,080 Speaker 1: supposedly to keep them in place neat and that eventually 750 00:39:53,120 --> 00:39:56,279 Speaker 1: broke off, and I just went for years with those 751 00:39:56,360 --> 00:40:00,479 Speaker 1: metal stumps there. Because I've spent quite a few without 752 00:40:00,520 --> 00:40:02,080 Speaker 1: going to the gist at one point. 753 00:40:02,200 --> 00:40:07,359 Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm guessing college years and maybe immediately after bing 754 00:40:07,400 --> 00:40:12,919 Speaker 2: bing bing. That's how it goes. Man, Let's see, well, 755 00:40:12,960 --> 00:40:15,600 Speaker 2: you don't have anything else about braces. I don't either. 756 00:40:15,760 --> 00:40:18,880 Speaker 2: Thanks to all the orthodonists out there for listening, uh 757 00:40:18,920 --> 00:40:21,919 Speaker 2: and everyone. If I turn up assassinated in the next 758 00:40:21,960 --> 00:40:23,719 Speaker 2: couple of weeks is because I did figure out the 759 00:40:23,760 --> 00:40:28,239 Speaker 2: big secret to orthodonics and insurance. Yeah, and Chuck said, yeah, 760 00:40:28,239 --> 00:40:29,759 Speaker 2: so that means it's time for a listener mail. 761 00:40:31,600 --> 00:40:33,520 Speaker 1: You're gonna wake up and Steve Martin's going to be 762 00:40:33,560 --> 00:40:34,760 Speaker 1: over you with a dental drill. 763 00:40:35,320 --> 00:40:35,560 Speaker 2: God. 764 00:40:36,480 --> 00:40:39,919 Speaker 1: By the way, highly highly highly recommend the two part 765 00:40:39,920 --> 00:40:43,360 Speaker 1: documentary on Steve Martin. Okay, it is great. 766 00:40:43,760 --> 00:40:45,000 Speaker 2: I didn't even know it was out. 767 00:40:45,520 --> 00:40:47,239 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's been out for a little bit. It's it's 768 00:40:47,280 --> 00:40:49,360 Speaker 1: really really good, and it kind of makes me realize 769 00:40:49,360 --> 00:40:51,440 Speaker 1: what a I mean. I've always been a Steve Martin fan, 770 00:40:51,480 --> 00:40:54,239 Speaker 1: but it really knocks home what a treasure he is 771 00:40:54,280 --> 00:40:54,799 Speaker 1: as a human. 772 00:40:55,080 --> 00:40:55,480 Speaker 2: I bet. 773 00:40:55,880 --> 00:40:59,920 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's fun and I just recently rewatched Three Amigos 774 00:41:00,160 --> 00:41:01,920 Speaker 1: showed Ruby for the first time, which she thought was 775 00:41:02,000 --> 00:41:02,399 Speaker 1: very fun. 776 00:41:02,680 --> 00:41:05,680 Speaker 2: I've never seen that one. Oh really, yeah, but. 777 00:41:05,680 --> 00:41:07,319 Speaker 1: That seems like it would have been one on your list. 778 00:41:07,800 --> 00:41:10,120 Speaker 2: I don't well, actually I do know why. 779 00:41:10,760 --> 00:41:15,840 Speaker 1: Why you don't watch vy Chase. Of course, he's the 780 00:41:15,920 --> 00:41:18,000 Speaker 1: least funny part of the movie. You need to watch 781 00:41:18,000 --> 00:41:19,560 Speaker 1: it for Martin Short and Steve Martin. 782 00:41:19,680 --> 00:41:21,920 Speaker 2: I'll do my best, So I'd rather watch only murders 783 00:41:21,920 --> 00:41:22,520 Speaker 2: in the building. 784 00:41:22,800 --> 00:41:25,240 Speaker 1: No, I'm with you. I'm with you, all right, Hey, guys, 785 00:41:25,719 --> 00:41:27,320 Speaker 1: this is what is this about? This is well, this 786 00:41:27,360 --> 00:41:29,600 Speaker 1: is kind of about medical school, so it fits. I've 787 00:41:29,640 --> 00:41:31,680 Speaker 1: been listening for nearly a decade. Was very excited to 788 00:41:31,680 --> 00:41:34,160 Speaker 1: have an occasion to write in. During the episode on cigarettes, 789 00:41:34,200 --> 00:41:37,160 Speaker 1: you mentioned an early physician who observed nasal swellings and 790 00:41:38,040 --> 00:41:43,759 Speaker 1: excretiences and immoderate users of snuff, and Josh interprets this 791 00:41:43,880 --> 00:41:47,840 Speaker 1: as puffy pussy lumps in their noses. I recently graduated 792 00:41:47,840 --> 00:41:49,600 Speaker 1: from medical school, and it's a rite of passage for 793 00:41:49,640 --> 00:41:53,520 Speaker 1: medical students to describe a wound with puss as pussy, 794 00:41:54,239 --> 00:41:59,280 Speaker 1: only to realize this word appears rather crass when written out. Instead, 795 00:41:59,360 --> 00:42:02,680 Speaker 1: we use the word p U r u l E 796 00:42:02,760 --> 00:42:06,960 Speaker 1: and purulent to avoid any potential misunderstanding. If a patient 797 00:42:07,040 --> 00:42:10,080 Speaker 1: reads the notes. Obviously it's a little different in a 798 00:42:10,120 --> 00:42:12,239 Speaker 1: podcast setting, which I doubt listeners are often reading an 799 00:42:12,280 --> 00:42:13,239 Speaker 1: episode transcript. 800 00:42:13,400 --> 00:42:16,000 Speaker 2: Oh yeah, well to go look that up. I figured this. 801 00:42:15,960 --> 00:42:18,080 Speaker 1: Little nugget of knowledge might be helpful. I'm sure you 802 00:42:18,080 --> 00:42:19,919 Speaker 1: hear this every day, but I want to say thanks 803 00:42:19,960 --> 00:42:21,600 Speaker 1: for all the great work you do. Suffie Schnow has 804 00:42:21,600 --> 00:42:23,799 Speaker 1: been a constant source of joy for me as I've 805 00:42:23,880 --> 00:42:27,560 Speaker 1: navigated college, med school, marriage, fatherhood, and now residency training 806 00:42:27,600 --> 00:42:30,920 Speaker 1: and pathology. You brought my perspective on a basterray of issues, 807 00:42:30,920 --> 00:42:32,960 Speaker 1: and I always look forward to listening to new and 808 00:42:33,040 --> 00:42:36,320 Speaker 1: old episodes alike on my commute. And that is from Gabe, 809 00:42:36,360 --> 00:42:39,319 Speaker 1: who says, Hey, come to ann Arbor, Michigan for a 810 00:42:39,360 --> 00:42:42,200 Speaker 1: live show, and we're maybe trying to work that out, Gabe. 811 00:42:42,280 --> 00:42:44,440 Speaker 2: Yeah, we're batting around, Gabe. Good idea. 812 00:42:44,880 --> 00:42:46,759 Speaker 1: Yeah, And I tell you what, Gabe, if we come 813 00:42:46,800 --> 00:42:49,640 Speaker 1: to ann Arbor, write us back from that very same 814 00:42:49,680 --> 00:42:52,400 Speaker 1: thread in you and your friends and family or whatever, 815 00:42:53,040 --> 00:42:55,160 Speaker 1: you know, not like twenty people, but you can get 816 00:42:55,160 --> 00:42:55,839 Speaker 1: on the guest list. 817 00:42:56,120 --> 00:42:59,920 Speaker 2: Yeah, good idea, Chuck, that's a fool proof plan, no 818 00:43:00,280 --> 00:43:04,319 Speaker 2: possible way for identity theft. That's right, And congratulations Gabe. 819 00:43:04,400 --> 00:43:08,439 Speaker 2: On all of your academic and medical success, and thanks 820 00:43:08,480 --> 00:43:11,080 Speaker 2: for listening to us that entire time. If you want 821 00:43:11,080 --> 00:43:12,920 Speaker 2: to be like Gabe and send us a cool email, 822 00:43:13,120 --> 00:43:15,080 Speaker 2: you can do that too, Send it off to stuff 823 00:43:15,160 --> 00:43:20,440 Speaker 2: podcast at iHeartRadio dot com. 824 00:43:20,640 --> 00:43:23,520 Speaker 1: Stuff you Should Know is a production of iHeartRadio. For 825 00:43:23,600 --> 00:43:27,799 Speaker 1: more podcasts my heart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, 826 00:43:27,880 --> 00:43:29,720 Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.