Speaker 1: Welcome our chillins.
Speaker 2: I'm Joel Webber and I'm Eric Belchernas.
Speaker 1: It's a new year.
Speaker 3: Eric, There's going to be some things that will happen
Speaker 3: this year, no doubt, And I'm wondering what ETFs we
Speaker 3: should share with our listeners to help them get ahead
Speaker 3: in the year head.
Speaker 4: Yeah, this has become an annual tradition. We at Bloomberg
Speaker 4: Intelligence are tasked with writing outlooks, just like all of
Speaker 4: our Stock and Bond colleagues, but we also in addition
Speaker 4: to that do a listical people like listicles Joel.
Speaker 3: They do you know this numbers seeking to go to
Speaker 3: all together.
Speaker 4: So we thought we would do this is about five
Speaker 4: years ago. I think we started in what eighteen or nineteen.
Speaker 4: We did nineteen ETFs for twenty nineteen, we did twenty
Speaker 4: ets for twenty twenty, and today we're going to unveil
Speaker 4: twenty four ETFs for twenty twenty four.
Speaker 2: See how that works go by the year.
Speaker 1: Yeah, do we actually have twenty four?
Speaker 4: So in our big note we have twenty four because
Speaker 4: we have Rebecca and Henry contributing from Europe and Asia.
Speaker 4: But today we're just gonna give you the US version
Speaker 4: so it's fifteen of the twenty four.
Speaker 3: Twenty four minus nine for the year ahead, So fifteen
Speaker 3: ETFs to know.
Speaker 4: About the US ones, which I think our audience is
Speaker 4: probably more interested in anyway. So plus some of these
Speaker 4: are gonna cause a little debate. We just won't have
Speaker 4: time to get through twenty four.
Speaker 3: So joining us James Seifert and Athanasius, Sarah Vegas with
Speaker 3: ETF analysts with OBERG intelligence, this time on trillions ETFs
Speaker 3: for the year ahead. Okay, Eric, you're gonna kick it off.
Speaker 3: You have a disclaimer, and then you're gonna give us
Speaker 3: the first ETF to watch.
Speaker 4: Yeah, so just real quick, you know, these these are
Speaker 4: not our picks for what will go up or down.
Speaker 2: We don't know.
Speaker 1: We don't make calls.
Speaker 4: We don't make calls we're not allowed to. And frankly,
Speaker 4: I think most people in the team admit none of
Speaker 4: us know the future. In fact, nobody knows the future.
Speaker 4: If we're we're gonna be really honest, but these are
Speaker 4: ETFs that catch our attention, that we're thinking about, that
Speaker 4: have tapped into some trend or some rarity that just
Speaker 4: you know, gets us as if we're ETF scientists This
Speaker 4: is something we obsess over a little.
Speaker 1: Bit ETFs to watch, that's what.
Speaker 2: That's right to watch.
Speaker 4: Yeah, okay, My first one is the PACER US Small
Speaker 4: Cap Cash Cows one hundred ETF.
Speaker 1: What's that ticker, CALF.
Speaker 4: So this is the baby brother of cows, which is
Speaker 4: the large cap cash cow ETF. This ETF made what
Speaker 4: we do is called an outliers list we do every
Speaker 4: month which shows ETFs that took in way more that
Speaker 4: month and flows than their average, their twelve month average.
Speaker 4: So if it's more than two standard deviations above it,
Speaker 4: we note it because hey, this is needs something that's happening.
Speaker 4: Something's happening. CALF has made the list three times this year.
Speaker 1: Huh.
Speaker 4: It is really breaking out. If you look at the
Speaker 4: flow chart, it looks a lot like ARC back in
Speaker 4: twenty twenty when it was just coming to be. It's
Speaker 4: a probably the best kind of flow chart you can have.
Speaker 4: It shows totally organic growth, total grassroots interest, a pure phenomenon,
Speaker 4: and I would call PACER indy, So I call this
Speaker 4: the indie feel good hit of the year. And what
Speaker 4: this does is it looks for cash flow yield in
Speaker 4: small caps. Now, as you know large caps crushed this
Speaker 4: past year. Nobody cares about small caps or anything else
Speaker 4: other than like the Super seven. So this ETF basically
Speaker 4: double the performance of the Russell two thousand, which is
Speaker 4: this benchmark for small caps. So, in other words, it
Speaker 4: picked small caps from within this universe and doubled it.
Speaker 2: That is so hard to do.
Speaker 4: If an active manager did, it would be like praising
Speaker 4: them all day. Not only that, this beat the S
Speaker 4: and P. So to think about it, a small cap
Speaker 4: ETF that's picking certain stocks beat the S and P. Shocker, right,
Speaker 4: That's why the flows are coming in. People are like,
Speaker 4: holy moly, this thing has something special going on. Part
Speaker 4: of it is in small caps there's a lot of junk,
Speaker 4: but looking at cash flow yield is actually a pretty
Speaker 4: brilliant way to pick out the better quality type of
Speaker 4: small caps. So it's something got a quality tilt. But
Speaker 4: listen to these flow numbers. By the way, it's taken
Speaker 4: in cash flows for forty four months straight. It's taken
Speaker 4: in flows every week this year but one, and it's
Speaker 4: on a one hundred day inflow streak. These are Vanguard
Speaker 4: numbers only Vanguard, and maybe Schwab can can lay numbers
Speaker 4: down like this and if you look at the holders,
Speaker 4: it's a lot of the big wirehouses Morgan Stanley, Wells Fargo.
Speaker 4: It's so hard to get into those places. So this
Speaker 4: ETF defy the odds. Can it keep it going? You
Speaker 4: know if small caps come back, like some analysts are saying,
Speaker 4: because large caps had their year, this thing could have
Speaker 4: a future.
Speaker 2: It could keep actually going.
Speaker 4: So and it could pass Cows, which is its big brother,
Speaker 4: which is rare.
Speaker 5: I think that's a great pick. I love what we said.
Speaker 5: You know, small caps didn't have a great year, so
Speaker 5: so to beat not having like some of that, you know,
Speaker 5: large cap exposure one is really like a pretty incredible feat.
Speaker 1: James, you get the mic. What's your number two?
Speaker 6: Yeah?
Speaker 7: So mine is going to be bid Oh the pro
Speaker 7: shares Bitcoin Future Strategy ETF. I talk about bitcoin every year.
Speaker 7: I feel like the last I think the last two
Speaker 7: years I had GBTC on there.
Speaker 6: But it's finally here.
Speaker 7: We're probably going to get a spot bitcoin ETF in
Speaker 7: early January, as Eric and I predicted a few months back.
Speaker 7: So but the question like, what's going to happen to biddo?
Speaker 7: This thing is well over a billion dollars, has a
Speaker 7: couple of billion dollars in assets. Uh, it's done very
Speaker 7: well as bitcoin has risen, but there's some concerns, Like
Speaker 7: most people are if they want exposure to Bitcoin, they're
Speaker 7: going to much prefer a SPOT allocation something like GPTC
Speaker 7: or these other ets that are going to come to market.
Speaker 6: So the question is what's going to happen to biddo.
Speaker 7: I think eventually it will go to the wayside, but
Speaker 7: likely at least initially it's going to be stick around.
Speaker 7: But the problem is Biddo since the beginning of the
Speaker 7: year has underperformed Spot by over fourteen percent because of
Speaker 7: the role cost. So essentially, when you have a futures
Speaker 7: etf and you have to you have to maintain exposure
Speaker 7: to the underlying asset, in this case bitcoin, it's basically
Speaker 7: selling a futures contract for one month and buying the
Speaker 7: next month, and if that next month is more expensive,
Speaker 7: you're losing money every time.
Speaker 6: And as big coin goes on a bull run like.
Speaker 7: It has the last couple months, that that cost goes
Speaker 7: up for every month because basically the curve goes into
Speaker 7: canentango without getting two into the weeds. But this means
Speaker 7: that Biddo like for a long term allocation, isn't that
Speaker 7: great of a strategy? Essentially, not great of as great
Speaker 7: of a tool, because basically that fourteen percent is this
Speaker 7: is your cost for owning this ETF as compared to
Speaker 7: owning the underlying assets.
Speaker 6: So it'll be interesting to see what happens.
Speaker 7: I think this thing will be used heavily by the
Speaker 7: market makers, at least initially when we get those Spot ETFs,
Speaker 7: because they can use them to hedge positions while they're
Speaker 7: creating markets in other areas. But it will be fascinating
Speaker 7: to see, like what happens with the flows. Is money
Speaker 7: gonna pour out of Biddo and into these Spot products?
Speaker 7: Who knows, but it'll be interesting to watch.
Speaker 4: Yeah, And it's ironic that Biddo's getting so much of
Speaker 4: the attention in the sort of buy the rumor action
Speaker 4: ahead of the Spot approvals. But when Spot gets approved,
Speaker 4: Biddo is gonna get ignored, not totally ignored, but people
Speaker 4: are gonna migrate because any ETF that uses futures, and
Speaker 4: if there's one that does it physical, people like it physical.
Speaker 3: So if that's a billion dollars, then we're on here
Speaker 3: next year where do you guys think that's.
Speaker 4: At I think biddoh, I mean I think bitcoin. Might
Speaker 4: you know, after this big run up, maybe let's let's
Speaker 4: call bitcoin flat. Okay, I would say loses thirty percent
Speaker 4: of its asset seven hundred million, but then two years
Speaker 4: were at five hundred million.
Speaker 2: I think it's down to under one hundred million in five.
Speaker 3: Great strategy before the spot vehicle finally got approve.
Speaker 4: Yeah, Proshure has made a nice little coin on this thing,
Speaker 4: and it served the purpose in the market. But yeah, advisors,
Speaker 4: if generally speaking, if you put derivatives I mean futures
Speaker 4: in an ETF, they're not going to buy it. The
Speaker 4: gold futures ETF that used to exist closed, So you
Speaker 4: know that tells you all you need to know everybody?
Speaker 1: What once a physical Athanasios? What's your third?
Speaker 5: So this one is MDiv, which is the first trust
Speaker 5: multi asset income ETF. The reason I picked this one
Speaker 5: is like income was a really high trade this year, right,
Speaker 5: So like JETPY, everyone's just looking at, well, which ETFs
Speaker 5: payout the most income, the highest yield. So for if
Speaker 5: we diversify stocks, we diversify bonds, why not diversify your
Speaker 5: income sources. And this is why I like it, because
Speaker 5: it holds all different income sources, holds your hild bonds, reads, preferreds,
Speaker 5: dividend stocks MLPs. So the risk was sometimes just being
Speaker 5: so attached to one is obviously you're you're you're depending
Speaker 5: on that one income source. So I like this approach
Speaker 5: of diversifying. It has a six percent yield. Jetpy's like
Speaker 5: eight point six and it's at the same place where
Speaker 5: jetpy is this year, and jetpy was probably like the
Speaker 5: hottest trade this year. It's a little bit expensive. It's
Speaker 5: a first trust product, you know, them being cheap is
Speaker 5: not really their mL but it's about sixty five basis points,
Speaker 5: still pretty small ETF, but I like the notion of
Speaker 5: diversifying your different sources of income.
Speaker 1: That one is a little bit more boring than the
Speaker 1: first two.
Speaker 8: What was it taking MDV.
Speaker 6: Right?
Speaker 1: Eric here for it?
Speaker 2: I don't know that.
Speaker 1: So let's see what your next round is.
Speaker 2: Back. I gotta go to the espresso machine.
Speaker 1: With cash.
Speaker 8: Companies that have cash, a lot of cash on hand.
Speaker 4: All right, you know what, I was gonna save this
Speaker 4: one for a late I gotta bring this now. Okay,
Speaker 4: I'm gonna go with the global x MSCI Argentina.
Speaker 1: ETF ooh bringing some heat.
Speaker 4: Yeah, so they just selected this guy who runs around
Speaker 4: with a chainsaw and he calls himself an anarcho capitalist,
Speaker 4: and it's fascinating every time one of these emerging market
Speaker 4: countries goes from like socialism and then swing so far
Speaker 4: the other way to like capitalism. The ETFs love it.
Speaker 4: This thing is up twenty two percent in a month
Speaker 4: since this guy got elected, the volumes up a lot,
Speaker 4: and the emerging markets as a whole is flat. So
Speaker 4: clearly people like this now. I always find it fascinating.
Speaker 4: Can he pull it off? So there's this excitement that,
Speaker 4: oh it's a more business friendly leader.
Speaker 1: By the way, his name is Javier Melat, Yes.
Speaker 4: And he's a character and he's got a lot of attention.
Speaker 4: But it's all words right.
Speaker 1: Now, can he?
Speaker 3: And he was elected by saying some stuff and is
Speaker 3: immediately like pivoted in office.
Speaker 2: This is the thing he what he's saying. You know,
Speaker 2: I get it.
Speaker 4: It's a great message, I guess if well, it could
Speaker 4: be a good message if you live there. But words
Speaker 4: to action are different. But we'll see if this works.
Speaker 4: All I know is that when there's any hint of
Speaker 4: a pro business leader getting elected in one of these
Speaker 4: single country Emerging market ETFs, the ETF goes wild for
Speaker 4: a while and we'll see if this. You know, India
Speaker 4: happened with Moti back when he was there Brazil and
Speaker 4: so here we're now in Argentina. So I like to
Speaker 4: watch these because I always call single country ETFs or
Speaker 4: sort of like the sports book of geopolitics. When you
Speaker 4: see that, you know, people use him to like bet
Speaker 4: on that.
Speaker 2: So so I'm watching.
Speaker 4: I'll be watching this next year. Can it maintain this
Speaker 4: sort of excitement or will reality set it?
Speaker 1: And what was that ticket for this ar GT? So
Speaker 1: easy to remember it? All right, James, we're starting round two,
Speaker 1: let's go.
Speaker 6: Yeah.
Speaker 7: So I'm gonna go with something that is gonna upset
Speaker 7: Eric a little bit here. I actually did this one
Speaker 7: a few years back, but I but I have to
Speaker 7: bring it back. I'm gonna do the X trackers S
Speaker 7: and P five hundred ESG ETF E S G E
Speaker 7: t F s NPE. So this whole thing that the
Speaker 7: strategy is basically don't rock the boat. So its overall
Speaker 7: goals are to basically give you a very similar risk
Speaker 7: return profile the S and P five hundred, but also
Speaker 7: avoid companies that are doing basically things that are against
Speaker 7: ESG practices. So basically what it does is it decides
Speaker 7: what ESG factors are most critical to different sectors and
Speaker 7: then kicks out the worst performers in each sector by
Speaker 7: whatever those metrics are. So it's gonna be different metrics
Speaker 7: for oil and gas companies versus tech companies. Right So,
Speaker 7: right now it has three hundred and twenty two stocks.
Speaker 7: The reason I'm covering is because one, I've believed for
Speaker 7: a long time that these I'm not a huge fan
Speaker 7: of these esgetfs that are picking bottom up based on
Speaker 7: ESG fundamental criteria. I think you miss out on a
Speaker 7: lot of home runs if you do it that way.
Speaker 7: If you're just picking solely because of some ESG metrics,
Speaker 7: it makes sense to use ESG as an overall investment
Speaker 7: decision in my view. But I'm just not a fan
Speaker 7: of the bottoms up picking solely based on the ESG characteristics.
Speaker 7: And what has this led to? So if you look
Speaker 7: at the index, it's beating the S and P five
Speaker 7: hundred by over thirty five percent since the index was
Speaker 7: created and back tested in two thousand five, back tested
Speaker 7: through two thousand and five, and I know what Eric
Speaker 7: is going to say and what anyone's saying. Well, tell
Speaker 7: me how it's done since it launched. So since it
Speaker 7: launched in twenty nineteen, it's beating SPY by eleven percent.
Speaker 7: It charges a ten basis point fee. It's a great
Speaker 7: story for advisors. It's not huge tracking error to the
Speaker 7: underlying asset, which a lot of advisors don't want to
Speaker 7: talk about, and that ten percent fee is pretty cheap.
Speaker 6: So, like I said, I don't like.
Speaker 7: I'm not a huge fan of these ESG ETFs that
Speaker 7: exclude high returners. A lot of them suffered heavily because
Speaker 7: they didn't have exposure to oil and gas. They as
Speaker 7: they went on a run the last couple of years.
Speaker 6: So yeah, I'm.
Speaker 7: Picking SMPE just because it's been performing exceptionally well and
Speaker 7: it's one of the rare ESG cases that's doing well
Speaker 7: this year.
Speaker 6: It's almost a billion dollar fund.
Speaker 2: Yeah, No, you're right.
Speaker 4: The performance has been good and I have to give
Speaker 4: that up. And it's a good ATF. You know the
Speaker 4: problem is if if you're going in and you're you
Speaker 4: want quote ESG, you look at the holdings here. You've
Speaker 4: got Amazon potentially like worker issues. You've got Tesla that's
Speaker 4: got a whole host of issues. You've got Chevron all
Speaker 4: the top twenty. So I mean, what are we really
Speaker 4: doing here, James? Why not just buy the stupid s
Speaker 4: and P five hundred? Like, what what are we really
Speaker 4: doing here?
Speaker 6: How changed four hundred? It's not changing the world.
Speaker 7: I don't agree with any of those practice those ETFs
Speaker 7: that are bottoms up eat.
Speaker 4: In other words, you you say by this because you
Speaker 4: might it's an outperforming potential, you could care less.
Speaker 7: And it's no because it's kicking out the absolute worst
Speaker 7: performers from each sector. So like there are people, there
Speaker 7: are firms in the sectors of communications or technology or
Speaker 7: consumer discretionary that have way worse ESG scores than the
Speaker 7: ones you named.
Speaker 3: So it's like happening like a filtering mechanism that's actually
Speaker 3: attempting to like isolate.
Speaker 4: Pepsi and Cola perform the top twenty five. McDonald's doesn't
Speaker 4: him too much. This is he's just giving you things
Speaker 4: to watch. I know, I know, yeah, this this is
Speaker 4: an actual trying to get horse institution.
Speaker 2: After MD if we got to get get some action here.
Speaker 3: Well, on that note, as we're on number six terrified,
Speaker 3: Now are you going to follow Terrified?
Speaker 8: Okay?
Speaker 5: I like this ticker. It's a new ETF. It's desk right,
Speaker 5: so it's the van neck.
Speaker 1: Office stronger start.
Speaker 5: Okay, what's coming off better on this one? It's the
Speaker 5: van office and commercial re ETF?
Speaker 1: Right?
Speaker 5: So what a of a contrarian play because it's you know,
Speaker 5: playing on commercial real estate. But it's a very unique ETF.
Speaker 5: There's really nothing else like it out there because it's
Speaker 5: focusing mostly just on the commercial rates in office rates.
Speaker 8: You know, you can get.
Speaker 5: This exposure and some of the bigger ETFs, but it
Speaker 5: won't be as pure as this one. And while the
Speaker 5: ETF is new, if you look at the index of it,
Speaker 5: it's below where it was even during COVID, and if
Speaker 5: you remember, like offices were like done during COVID, So
Speaker 5: it's like, how is this still at that level? I
Speaker 5: think if with a change in rates maybe next year.
Speaker 5: I think it's something to watch. It's very unique, it's small,
Speaker 5: there's really no other ETF like it, So I like
Speaker 5: this one as a contrarian play for next year, especially
Speaker 5: with a push with firms going back to the office
Speaker 5: more right, we're seeing you know, we're seeing it everywhere.
Speaker 5: I think this one could be something to watch for
Speaker 5: next year.
Speaker 1: I like that that's a little bit of a sleeper. Yeah.
Speaker 2: I mean it's very small.
Speaker 4: It just came out as one million, so but yeah,
Speaker 4: this could be a proxy for what you're talking about.
Speaker 8: Yeah.
Speaker 5: We always sort of debate on the team, like getting
Speaker 5: back to the office or whatnot. And I think you're right,
Speaker 5: that's a good thing.
Speaker 4: Ernado is the top holding and a lot of people
Speaker 4: have used that as a proxy for Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, beginning of round three.
Speaker 7: Eric, Hey wait wait, I want to add something real quick. Okay,
Speaker 7: good heah, Yeah, yeah, you talked about Vernado. I also agree,
Speaker 7: like I love this pick from Athan because commercial real
Speaker 7: estate has been something that everyone's talking about. I mean
Speaker 7: your Sister or Sibling podcast at odd Lots talks about
Speaker 7: this constantly. So if people are looking for an ETF
Speaker 7: to play this, this looks like a good way to
Speaker 7: do it.
Speaker 6: And you mentioned Vernado.
Speaker 7: Fun fact, we're sitting in a Vernado owned building technically speaking,
Speaker 7: so they're definitely estate.
Speaker 2: You're in Jersey in your house.
Speaker 1: I don't know.
Speaker 4: Maybe Vernardo built your house. By the way, the second
Speaker 4: company is called kill Roy. Can anybody name the eighty
Speaker 4: song that has the lyric Kilroy?
Speaker 1: Oh Man?
Speaker 2: Probably Magnus is my only hope. Yeah, producer Magnus from
Speaker 2: the booth kill Roy?
Speaker 1: What song? Dix?
Speaker 2: Mister Roboto?
Speaker 1: Very good?
Speaker 2: Anyway?
Speaker 1: All right, Round three, Eric.
Speaker 2: I love that song when I was a kid.
Speaker 3: Okay, Round three, old, Round three, Eric, You got the
Speaker 3: seventh ETF.
Speaker 4: To watch, yep, and I think I'll do my most
Speaker 4: boring one just because those last two were really good. Okay,
Speaker 4: fbn D, this is the fidelity.
Speaker 1: You like how he's trying to sneak that in.
Speaker 8: Okay, you can't tell me this is more This is
Speaker 8: more exciting than this.
Speaker 3: I'm like me, Bond, he is going to try and
Speaker 3: sneak it past us.
Speaker 8: You're one step.
Speaker 4: I'm like one of those old legacy bands that does shows. Still,
Speaker 4: you do a couple hits early, your new stuff in
Speaker 4: the middle, and you close with the headliners. Okay, so
Speaker 4: this is the new stuff boring? Okay, all right. Fbn
Speaker 4: D has six point five billion dollars. This is a
Speaker 4: fidelity bond ETF. This has also made the outliers list
Speaker 4: multiple months and I'm looking at this and it's fascinating.
Speaker 4: This is Fidelity at thirty six basis points for an
Speaker 4: active bond and it outperforms the AG so it's doing
Speaker 4: a job. It's cheap, it's under the forty basis point mark,
Speaker 4: and I think this is representative to me of what
Speaker 4: the company to watch next year, which is Fidelity. Fidelity
Speaker 4: has done a couple of things. They've converted some ETFs
Speaker 4: mutual funds into ETFs. They are gearing up, I think
Speaker 4: for what is going to be a massive year. I
Speaker 4: think they've finally sold upper management that ETFs are the future,
Speaker 4: and the guy working inside there, I think he's going
Speaker 4: to be able to do some big moves. I see
Speaker 4: Fidelity cracking the top ten in terms of issuer size,
Speaker 4: and I see them doing all kinds of thing conversions.
Speaker 4: They filed for an ETF share class of their mutual funds,
Speaker 4: so if they get all this going, look out you know,
Speaker 4: because Fidelity is a behemoth. So one of our big
Speaker 4: themes in the outlook is the many roads to ETF.
Speaker 4: So Fidelity is a firm that's going to take every road.
Speaker 4: It'll be busy on each road, and each road will
Speaker 4: have certain reasons. You don't use conversions all the time
Speaker 4: or share classes. But Fidelity is going to be very
Speaker 4: specific in how it approaches ets. But essentially it's going
Speaker 4: to slowly start to move all of its existing clients
Speaker 4: over from the mutual fund format to the ETF format.
Speaker 4: And FBND at six point five billion is crazy because
Speaker 4: remember bond the Pimpco bill gross fund, that was the
Speaker 4: biggest bond ETF, biggest active bond ETF for a long time.
Speaker 4: This is double that size. So that's how fast they
Speaker 4: you know, we have a phrase they grow up so fast.
Speaker 4: This is a great example of that.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm curious when they discover how they will do
Speaker 3: active ETFs. Fidelity obviously being famous for its active management history.
Speaker 4: That's the thing again, if you can be active, have
Speaker 4: a good name, and be below forty BIPs, that's a
Speaker 4: good place to be. It's when if this came over
Speaker 4: at ninety I would not be as optimistic, but it's cheap.
Speaker 4: It's made the decision to that. And we had our
Speaker 4: ETFs in Depth event in December and Brian Lake of
Speaker 4: JP Morgan I asked them what they're most excited about,
Speaker 4: and he said active fixed income is probably the biggest
Speaker 4: whitespace still, he said, there's just because that's a space
Speaker 4: where mutual funds have way more market share versus CTFs
Speaker 4: than in the equity side. So there's early early innings
Speaker 4: in the active bond area.
Speaker 3: That was less boring than I thought. James, how are
Speaker 3: you going to follow that with your.
Speaker 7: Eighth Yeah, so I'm gonna go with something that's definitely
Speaker 7: more exciting than fidelity bond fund.
Speaker 6: But I agree.
Speaker 7: I do agree with Eric's pick, like the the actively
Speaker 7: managed fixed income ETF space is going to be very
Speaker 7: interesting just overall because I think that's the way you're
Speaker 7: going to suck assets for the mutual it. We'll come
Speaker 7: back to that, said, my pick is the Round Hill
Speaker 7: Cannabis ETF with ticker weed w E D one.
Speaker 6: I just I love the ticker. You can't not love.
Speaker 7: The ticker is just so perfect for what it's doing.
Speaker 7: This is relatively new, right. We've had marijuana slash cannabis
Speaker 7: ETFs for quite a while now, but for the most
Speaker 7: part they weren't offering the purest form of exposure until
Speaker 7: basically mjus from Advisor shares came out with this idea
Speaker 7: basically offering exposure to what is known as multi state operators.
Speaker 7: They're marijuana compes that operate across state lines, so they're
Speaker 7: in this legal gray zone basically that doesn't allow with
Speaker 7: ETF to invest in them.
Speaker 6: And what Advisors Shares pioneered was using.
Speaker 7: Swaps with banks to get those exposures because technically not
Speaker 7: holding in the lying assets, it's look.
Speaker 6: It's just a gray area.
Speaker 7: But what we does is it takes it a step further.
Speaker 7: Those other ETFs still hold a bunch of other stocks
Speaker 7: that weren't strictly MSOs. They were investing in Canadian firms
Speaker 7: and other international firms. There's a lot of different ways
Speaker 7: to do this, but MSO is I mean, weed is
Speaker 7: just holding strictly MSOs five stocks.
Speaker 6: That's it.
Speaker 7: So it's a super concentrated portfolio. And look, these things
Speaker 7: have done horribly over the last couple of years. It's
Speaker 7: continually making lower and lower highs uh and then sinking again.
Speaker 7: So I love, I know Eric likes this too, to
Speaker 7: look at at ETFs that have been just like pushed
Speaker 7: down into the into the bunker here and see what's
Speaker 7: gonna happen.
Speaker 6: But this obviously would be a play in.
Speaker 7: This would obviously be a play on like some sort
Speaker 7: of federal legalization or further states legalizing marijuana going forward.
Speaker 7: This is this is gonna be a key way to
Speaker 7: do that, and it's super concentrated portfolio a portfolio.
Speaker 6: And the way it gets around it is we've talked
Speaker 6: about the single stock ETFs on here.
Speaker 7: They kind of made this loophole by using those swaps
Speaker 7: and diversifying who who the swap counterparties are to meet
Speaker 7: the diversification requirements. But essentially I need to know is
Speaker 7: that this is really on the cutting edge of like
Speaker 7: what ETFs can do, and they're offering super concentrated exposure
Speaker 7: to those multi multi state operator marijuana firms.
Speaker 3: You have snuck in like so much little like jargon
Speaker 3: in there like concentrates and highs and yeah you weren't
Speaker 3: even trying and yet you like totally you know did
Speaker 3: the cannabis industry is solid there can I.
Speaker 4: Ask you how many times a week do you smell marijuana.
Speaker 1: In New York City all the time? Now like once
Speaker 1: a day? Yeah, But I mean like it, so you know.
Speaker 2: I'm fine with it. I'm fine with it.
Speaker 4: But I'm telling you five six years ago, it was
Speaker 4: once a week. Now it's every day. I smell more
Speaker 4: than cigarettes.
Speaker 1: Yeah, this is the future.
Speaker 3: Okay, uh Athanasios, you can follow that RSP. This is
Speaker 3: number nine, last one for round three RSPT.
Speaker 5: Which is equal Weight, S and P five hundred Tech
Speaker 5: and this is the Mag seven right all this year.
Speaker 5: But remember, like the four hundred or so other companies
Speaker 5: like There's, they're still out there, right, They're still doing stuff.
Speaker 5: I I think Weight could have a year next year.
Speaker 5: It's just a way to detox off the Mag seven.
Speaker 5: You don't want to fully give off the exposure. But
Speaker 5: I think this year showed that, you know, sometimes you know,
Speaker 5: it's a problem with a few stocks just lead everything else.
Speaker 5: I think there could be a little bit of a reversal.
Speaker 5: So I like equal Weight, I'm not I'm not diversify
Speaker 5: divers five and still stay in tech. So you're not
Speaker 5: fully getting off of it, you're just sort of rejiggering it.
Speaker 2: RSPT is like the methadone of the ques.
Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly, gotcha.
Speaker 8: I don't know if I didn't know how far you
Speaker 8: want to be said detox, But.
Speaker 2: No, I get it.
Speaker 4: You're still getting something, so you're not com splitly going
Speaker 4: cold turkeys.
Speaker 2: I get it.
Speaker 8: We had a great fifty percent the cues. You know,
Speaker 8: whoever said that this year.
Speaker 5: Is lying to you. No one had that on, no
Speaker 5: one that share. So we've had a good I think,
Speaker 5: just you know, appreciate it and nothing equal ways.
Speaker 3: Round three unexpectedly became a recreational drug reference colore. Let's
Speaker 3: see what round four does. Eric kick us off?
Speaker 4: All right, I will stick with the cues because this
Speaker 4: one's related. Which this one is called jep Q, so
Speaker 4: this is the little brother of Jepy and jepy.
Speaker 1: Mine. Remind us what JEPU is. Yeah.
Speaker 4: JEFTP is the Equity Premium Income fund that JP Morgan
Speaker 4: put out that became the biggest active ETF hit ever,
Speaker 4: Bigger than ARC, bigger than Pimpco. It's got thirty billion
Speaker 4: dollars and it broke just breaking all the records. It's
Speaker 4: a covered call strategy, so it invests in the SMP,
Speaker 4: although it does some fundamental picking, but it's largely a
Speaker 4: low vall version of the S and P. And then
Speaker 4: it writes call options a little bit out of the money.
Speaker 4: So if you give up your upside because the if
Speaker 4: the SMP goes up a lot, you have to those
Speaker 4: options will get called and you won't get that money,
Speaker 4: but you get premium from selling the options. So it
Speaker 4: has a big yield and the yield connect as a
Speaker 4: buffer on the downside. So we sometimes call this boomer candy.
Speaker 4: Boomers love the protection aspect of some of this because
Speaker 4: they want to be involved in the markets. They're willing
Speaker 4: to give a lot of upside. So jepy has done
Speaker 4: a great job of bringing that. But JEPQ to me
Speaker 4: is like JETPY, but with a little more juice, so
Speaker 4: like it's the cues and it's covered call. So for example,
Speaker 4: you're to date this thing return thirty five percent, you
Speaker 4: still got ten eleven percent yield, and the sharp ratio
Speaker 4: was two point five, which is pretty high if you
Speaker 4: compare that to JETPI in terms of those numbers, JETP
Speaker 4: was only up nine percent nine percent yield and the
Speaker 4: sharp ratio is point five. So JEPQ has kind of
Speaker 4: come along as the little brother and beat JETPY on
Speaker 4: every single metric, and so it's just catching up and
Speaker 4: flows too. Now It'll be interesting because if you're like
Speaker 4: Ethan and you think that the cues might be a
Speaker 4: little out of gas. That yield gives you a little buffer,
Speaker 4: so jep Q I think also acts as a methadonish
Speaker 4: way to play the cues.
Speaker 5: I think that's a good pick. I think this year
Speaker 5: when that was a tough trade, but I think looking
Speaker 5: at it for next year, it could make sense.
Speaker 4: The way you're talking, it's like you, we haven't had
Speaker 4: reviews yet.
Speaker 2: Come give me, I'm ready turn it up. Yeah, come on, man,
Speaker 2: come at me.
Speaker 8: I think it's I think it's a good pick.
Speaker 3: Okay, thanks, Okay, nothing, James, let's hear your number eleven.
Speaker 7: So so this was this I guess, uh, this wasn't
Speaker 7: going to be the one I was going to go with.
Speaker 7: So I'm going out of order here. But it's directly
Speaker 7: in line. I guess great minds think alike. Right. I
Speaker 7: agree with everything that Ethan and Eric said, but I
Speaker 7: think I like a different ETF to look at going forward.
Speaker 6: So one is just uh, it's the arrow reverse cap
Speaker 6: weighted ETF. So it's similar the way.
Speaker 7: The one that gets the most play is more than
Speaker 7: with Athen's RSPT, but just regular RSP. It's taken in
Speaker 7: a lot of money early this year and flows are
Speaker 7: pouring in again late this year. And basically all that
Speaker 7: one does is it equal weights the S and P
Speaker 7: five hundred, whereas YPS, the one i'm picking, actually reverse
Speaker 7: cap weights it. So basically the smallest ones in the
Speaker 7: S and P five hundred you get the highest weight
Speaker 7: in YSP. And that's because of all the stuff that
Speaker 7: they all both just talked about. With the magnificent seven,
Speaker 7: super seven, whatever you want to talk about it, they're
Speaker 7: like making up seventy five percent of.
Speaker 6: The return so far in twenty twenty three. But I
Speaker 6: like YSP to play it.
Speaker 7: Even though it's only a ten million dollar fund, it's
Speaker 7: getting no interest from anyone, but everyone's pouring into RSP instead.
Speaker 7: But in my view, I just think it's a more
Speaker 7: efficient way to kind of make this play. Rather than
Speaker 7: selling out of your S and P five hundred exposure,
Speaker 7: you could only sell a small chunk and then buy
Speaker 7: this thing as a compliment to kind of get that
Speaker 7: sort of similar equal weighted type exposure. You don't need
Speaker 7: to sell the whole thing and move into another product.
Speaker 7: So I just think it's efficient from that way, And
Speaker 7: if you really are betting on the smaller cap stocks
Speaker 7: catching up to the large cap stocks are outperforming the
Speaker 7: larger names in the in the index or ETF in
Speaker 7: this case, every time that there's been a run where
Speaker 7: equal weight outperforms the regular market cap weighted ETFs in
Speaker 7: this space, YSP has outperformed the equal weighted version. So
Speaker 7: it's basically like a leverage version of RSP. I mean,
Speaker 7: obviously past past performance not indicative future return, but by
Speaker 7: reverse cap weighting, it ends up being a more leverage
Speaker 7: probably and equal cap waiting. And I think you can
Speaker 7: use this to make a more efficient exposure if you
Speaker 7: want to dial down your Magnificence seven or Super seven exposures.
Speaker 6: But no one seems to care. No one's buying this.
Speaker 1: Thing, Ethnoxius, would you trade your pick for that pick?
Speaker 8: I'd still stick with mind. Oh it's a good pick.
Speaker 8: But I still like I still like having being still
Speaker 8: in tech.
Speaker 7: Okay, so I'm not saying to get I'm not saying
Speaker 7: to get out of tech. You would just take like
Speaker 7: a chunk of your S and P five hundred exposure
Speaker 7: and put it in this to kind of lower your
Speaker 7: exposure to the Magnificent seven. That's all it would do.
Speaker 7: I would never say, replace your S and P five
Speaker 7: hundred with this thing. But I think it's a good
Speaker 7: compliment to h to kind of get the same thing
Speaker 7: without having to sell anything.
Speaker 8: Yeah, fair, it's a whole positions, just a little bit
Speaker 8: of methadone.
Speaker 1: He's still he's still not sold. All right.
Speaker 5: This is like the most toxic trade ever. I think
Speaker 5: that you want to love it. It never works its
Speaker 5: value right. Every year it's like this is it? Like
Speaker 5: I've changed, you know, And I've talked to Chris Kaney's
Speaker 5: our quant strategist Bloomber Intelligence, and there's a lot of
Speaker 5: stuff that points to value for for next year. And
Speaker 5: if you're gonna do it, you're gonna have to go
Speaker 5: full in.
Speaker 1: So it's q VOW.
Speaker 5: It's the alpha architect us Quantitative value ETF, and it's
Speaker 5: very concentrated. It's got the purest exposure to value. So
Speaker 5: if it's if you're gonna do it, do with QVO.
Speaker 5: I think you can have a pretty interesting year next year.
Speaker 5: I know we've called value in the past before you
Speaker 5: get these little bouts of outperformance, but I think could
Speaker 5: this year be different? I don't know, but I think
Speaker 5: QVOW is something to watch for next year.
Speaker 4: Yeah, this this ETF is in the top five of
Speaker 4: our factor intensity score for value because it's like hot
Speaker 4: sauce value. When value comes back, this thing should be
Speaker 4: at the top of the performers. And I just think
Speaker 4: it makes sense, you know, because you got a lot
Speaker 4: of value already in S and P five hundred or
Speaker 4: your total market. This just gives you a little tilt
Speaker 4: with only a little dose, so you'll need a little
Speaker 4: bit of this puppy to give you some real exposure
Speaker 4: to value. And there's a junk screen in it, so
Speaker 4: it's not that hardcore where it buys total junk.
Speaker 6: Yeah, I mean value.
Speaker 7: I feel like every year I've been hearing the value
Speaker 7: is going to come back, and it has spurts where
Speaker 7: it comes back, and then as Eric likes to say,
Speaker 7: the cues and high tech high cap growth just comes
Speaker 7: and runs it over. So yeah, we'll see what happens.
Speaker 7: But it's it's certainly been Uh it's been hard to
Speaker 7: stick with value for a long term, long term play.
Speaker 6: But it's a good pick.
Speaker 1: You know.
Speaker 4: The last year I did ie val I vow's q
Speaker 4: val but worse because international value. So if you really
Speaker 4: want to go crazy, eye vow you get the pe
Speaker 4: on I val and I want.
Speaker 2: To guess it's like seven lower.
Speaker 4: Just for context, the pe on the S and P
Speaker 4: five hundred is twenty five ish twenty six.
Speaker 2: So what do you think I vow's public? I mean
Speaker 2: price to earning average is five six six, Okay.
Speaker 4: I mean that is like, yeah, at some point right
Speaker 4: would you see this chart in the MSCI world, Apple
Speaker 4: now has a bigger waiting than the UK, bigger than France. Yeah,
Speaker 4: I mean the Super seven make up more than like
Speaker 4: the rest of the world combined pretty.
Speaker 1: Much by Super seven.
Speaker 2: You mean the magnet Magnificent seven.
Speaker 4: I like Super seven because alliteration, and Magnificent seven is
Speaker 4: a movie.
Speaker 7: Maybe it's worth while to say what what the Magnificent
Speaker 7: seven is. Maybe it's worth while to say what the
Speaker 7: Magnificent seven is. So just for anyone, Microsoft's actually say, okay, James, magnificence.
Speaker 6: Since we've said it, like.
Speaker 4: Yeah, listen, by the way, let's say let's say let's
Speaker 4: say they crash and burn next year and there's one
Speaker 4: of those stock we can throw in. We can call
Speaker 4: them the Hateful eight.
Speaker 3: James, let's name the Magnificent seven, just so we have
Speaker 3: it on tape good for.
Speaker 7: Yeah, yeah, so it's it's it's Apple, Microsoft, Alphabet aka Google, Amazon, Nvidia, Tesla,
Speaker 7: and Meta aka Facebook the artist formerly known as So
Speaker 7: those are the sevenies, like we keep talking about as
Speaker 7: though everyone knows, but just to make sure.
Speaker 3: We kept adding as to Fang and then we were like, wait,
Speaker 3: we just needed something new in.
Speaker 2: The video and video crash the party in a good way.
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, uh Tesla too.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 3: Final round, Eric, you're gonna kick us off with number thirteen.
Speaker 2: Okay, number thirteen.
Speaker 4: My last pick is Tua, which it's not the quarterback
Speaker 4: for the Dolphins, although I like him a lot too.
Speaker 4: It's the simplify short Term Treasury Future Strategy ETF. I
Speaker 4: picked this for a few reasons. One, you know, the
Speaker 4: Fed has seemingly said we're, you know, not mission accomplished quite,
Speaker 4: but they're clearly feeling good. So if they were to
Speaker 4: start lowering rates next year, clearly you'd want to be
Speaker 4: long treasury. So this one is like a leveraged it's
Speaker 4: actively managed, uses treasury futures and it's got some leverage
Speaker 4: in it, so if rates fall, this will pop a
Speaker 4: little bit. And futures are a pain to use. A
Speaker 4: lot of institutions do this trade. This is a trade
Speaker 4: that was popular at PIMCO for a while. So I
Speaker 4: like this for a few reasons. One next year again,
Speaker 4: if you think rates are gonna fall, this should be
Speaker 4: in a good position. Number Two, it does a lot
Speaker 4: of legwork for you. It does something to pain in
Speaker 4: the butt. Three you only need a little again, just
Speaker 4: a little bit to get you where you want to
Speaker 4: go in terms of playing the rate fall. And then
Speaker 4: the other reason is this is simplify as a fascinating company.
Speaker 4: But they came along and they've got a lot of
Speaker 4: X hedge fund people there. They're the closest thing to
Speaker 4: an actual real hedge fund in the ETF world. And
Speaker 4: this is proven by the fact that they've gotten multiple
Speaker 4: institutional investors to buy into their funds, like TUA is
Speaker 4: owned by the Michigan retirees, and then they've gotten General
Speaker 4: Electrics Pension. I can't, as a guy who wrote a
Speaker 4: book about institutional usage of ETFs, it is so hard
Speaker 4: to get an institution to buy into an ETF that
Speaker 4: isn't just like one of the liquid ones they use
Speaker 4: quickly for some like you know, short term usage, but
Speaker 4: for them to invest in your fund, it's rare. They
Speaker 4: like to be exclusive, they like to go with the
Speaker 4: best brains the ETF to them, or like the public
Speaker 4: pool that all the plubs use, They're like, I don't,
Speaker 4: I'm better than that. So the fact that institutions are
Speaker 4: going in here is a I think tells you how
Speaker 4: serious people take simplify and the people who work there.
Speaker 4: And I think it's fascinating because these ETFs two is
Speaker 4: fifteen basis points. A hedge fune would charge you two
Speaker 4: to twenty for this potentially, or at least a lot more.
Speaker 4: So we're talking hedge fund style management for van guardian
Speaker 4: fees with people who are from the hedge fund world.
Speaker 4: We're finally seeing that kind of experiment in the alternative
Speaker 4: space and I'm here for it.
Speaker 1: So what's in the portfolio treasury futures?
Speaker 2: So it's actively trading treasury futures.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 7: I would say that I love this pick because I
Speaker 7: feel like for years, us and pretty much everyone else
Speaker 7: is like, this might be the year that like alternative
Speaker 7: ETFs take up like more space, they compete more with
Speaker 7: hedge funds. Well, everyone thinks like the alternative ETF space
Speaker 7: should be larger.
Speaker 6: It just isn't. There's been some like good hits.
Speaker 7: Managed Future Strategies in twenty twenty two did very well,
Speaker 7: some other things like that, but for the most part,
Speaker 7: there just isn't a massive demand. But it's growing heavily
Speaker 7: now and a lot of that is being led by
Speaker 7: by simplify here.
Speaker 6: So I love this pick.
Speaker 3: Like that, All right, James, what's your last pick going
Speaker 3: to be?
Speaker 7: Yeah, So I'm kind of breaking the rules here, but
Speaker 7: I think it's for for for a very good reason.
Speaker 6: Probably the judge of picking and et.
Speaker 7: I'm picking a mutual fund ticker swv xx, which is
Speaker 7: a mutual fund and not an ETF, so I apologize
Speaker 7: in advance, but just swab money market fund. This thing
Speaker 7: is yielding five point two six percent, and I'm probably
Speaker 7: putting people to sleep right now hearing this. But when
Speaker 7: I throw these other numbers out there, it'll be interesting
Speaker 7: to see if people realize this. This thing charges thirty
Speaker 7: four basis points, which again not super expensive, but also
Speaker 7: definitely not cheap like if I don't think a lot
Speaker 7: of people realize that these money market funds make a
Speaker 7: lot of money for these companies, even though they were
Speaker 7: basically money losers, as people were putting money into these
Speaker 7: things when rates were zero or basically negative. That said,
Speaker 7: this thing has taken in. At the end of twenty
Speaker 7: twenty two, it at one hundred and sixty one billion dollars.
Speaker 7: Again not nothing, very good. It now has two hundred
Speaker 7: and fifty eight billion dollars. That thing is taken in
Speaker 7: ninety seven billion dollars in one year. If we had
Speaker 7: an ETF that did that, it would have been on
Speaker 7: the front pages of everything. So this, I think is
Speaker 7: the most the most successful fund in the US in
Speaker 7: twenty twenty three. As far as I can tell, money
Speaker 7: market funds as a whole are likely to hit could
Speaker 7: hit a trillion dollars in inflows this year. ETFs have
Speaker 7: never done that. So I feel like we just need
Speaker 7: to kind of point out what's happening here. And part
Speaker 7: of the reason swvxx is at the top of this
Speaker 7: is for like going back into some wonky things. We
Speaker 7: always talk about commissions and freeze and everything's free commission now,
Speaker 7: but that's not the case anymore. So Schwab bought td
Speaker 7: Amerri Trade, So anyone who's on Schwab or td Emmer Trade,
Speaker 7: if you want to buy a money market fund, there's
Speaker 7: a commission to do it. It costs like it's not cheap.
Speaker 7: But what they've done if they said, you can buy
Speaker 7: our ets with no commission and we'll put you in them.
Speaker 7: So people, it looks like anyone with a tdmmer Trade
Speaker 7: or Schwab account is looking for somewhere to put this.
Speaker 7: This is this is the one they're defaulting to. And
Speaker 7: this thing again is it's going to take in over
Speaker 7: one hundred billion dollars.
Speaker 1: In a year.
Speaker 7: So yes, it sounds sleepy, but like it's just mind boggling.
Speaker 2: That is money thinking about it insane.
Speaker 4: I mean, the ETF that's gonna take in the most
Speaker 4: money this year is vou at about forty billion, and
Speaker 4: ETFs are on fire and that's one hundred. Yeah, it's
Speaker 4: it's whacked.
Speaker 1: Uh.
Speaker 3: Eric's gonna have some other comments in your review about
Speaker 3: bringing a mutual fund to an ETF party, but you know,
Speaker 3: we'll keep it at that, oh right, number fifteen, Athanasios.
Speaker 5: That also makes MDV look like stewen Man like money
Speaker 5: market fund. Yeah, true, you know, but it's still a
Speaker 5: good pick. Okay, last one I always like to that. Yeah, well,
Speaker 5: people are gonna your listener is gonna get that reference.
Speaker 1: We're gonna go with it.
Speaker 8: You're just doing it.
Speaker 2: It's I like the reference, but I mean that's going
Speaker 2: way back.
Speaker 3: Yeah, all right, give us the give us the car chase.
Speaker 3: Always like to come on, bring it home. Pick one
Speaker 3: that's like synonymous with closures. Last year I used k Pop,
Speaker 3: which was like closing, you know thematics, we're getting a
Speaker 3: little out of hand.
Speaker 5: This one's gonna be Crypto. I think a E T
Speaker 5: H a F, which is the bit wise Ethereum Futures
Speaker 5: E T F. This has gotta go. I think like
Speaker 5: it's eighty five basis points. It's got to know it
Speaker 5: offers nothing different than the other ones. I think it'll
Speaker 5: go because eventually if ethereum spot is approved, because you
Speaker 5: have a better product. But I think Crypto has gotten
Speaker 5: a little chummy and one of them has got it.
Speaker 5: I can see this closing at some point this year,
Speaker 5: So I think that's wonder what. It might not be
Speaker 5: that one, but I think one of the Ethereum futures
Speaker 5: ones are going to close.
Speaker 4: Yeah, and there's a couple to do bigcoin plus Ethereum Futures.
Speaker 4: I'd say, half the category is probably gonna close. I
Speaker 4: mean even the pro chare is one is only ten
Speaker 4: million bit wise is less than that. Look, I think
Speaker 4: what we learned from the Ether Futures ETF's launching is
Speaker 4: that you know, the mania is over. People aren't gonna
Speaker 4: buy any single coin you put out there.
Speaker 2: Also Ether, it's it's ether and futures.
Speaker 4: But I don't think this necessarily takes away from a
Speaker 4: spot Bitcoin ETF. I think that should be a legitimate hit.
Speaker 4: But this definitely was underwhelming by anybody's standards. Really, these
Speaker 4: launched and like almost nobody cared.
Speaker 6: You know, we cared because we were covering the launch,
Speaker 6: but I.
Speaker 7: Think nobody what everybody yeah that said, I'm I'm I agree.
Speaker 7: I love this pick because I honestly would have picked
Speaker 7: one of these if Ethan hadn't already called DIBs on it.
Speaker 7: Because Eric and I mean we we we haven't put
Speaker 7: officialized out there, but I think it's pretty likely that
Speaker 7: we see a spot ethery in ETF in twenty twenty four.
Speaker 7: We have we have a couple of deadlines coming up
Speaker 7: on May twenty third and twenty four for Ark and
Speaker 7: van k bunch of other filers. I think it's likely
Speaker 7: that we get a spot ethereum ETF, and if we
Speaker 7: do get that, bit Wise is probably going to be
Speaker 7: in that race and launching one of these things. And
Speaker 7: I can't see them keeping the Etheryum futures ETF open,
Speaker 7: particularly if they don't manage the gun or any assets.
Speaker 6: So I'm with you. I think this is a really
Speaker 6: good pick for a potential closure next year, and I
Speaker 6: think multiple, like both of them.
Speaker 7: Has said multiple etherium futures ETFs or crypto Futures gtfs
Speaker 7: are likely to close too.
Speaker 3: All right, that rounds out fifteen ETFs for twenty twenty
Speaker 3: four at then aussios James, thanks for doing that.
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, thanks for fifteen for twenty four with us.
Speaker 3: There's nine more on the Bloomberg terminal that you can
Speaker 3: find in.
Speaker 2: The days that peak your interest.
Speaker 8: Thanks for having me on.
Speaker 1: All right, have a great year, everybody.
Speaker 6: Thanks for having me on.
Speaker 3: Guys, thanks for listening to trillions.
Speaker 1: Until next time.
Speaker 3: You can find us on the Bloomberg term Bloomberg dot com,
Speaker 3: Apple Podcasts, Spotify.
Speaker 1: Or wherever else you'd like to listen. We'd love to
Speaker 1: hear from you.
Speaker 3: We're on Twitter I'm at Joel Webbers show.
Speaker 1: He's at Eric Walchunas.
Speaker 3: This episode of Trillions was produced by Magnus Hendrickson. Bye