WEBVTT - Hell and Gone Murder Line: Karen Mitchell 0:00:46.480 --> 0:00:51.961 School of Humans. Helen Got Murder Line actively investigates cold 0:00:52.040 --> 0:00:55.361 case murders in an effort to raise public awareness invite 0:00:55.401 --> 0:00:58.761 witnesses to come forward and present evidence that could potentially 0:00:58.840 --> 0:01:02.961 be further investigated by law enforcement. While we value insights 0:01:03.001 --> 0:01:06.160 from family and community members, their statements should not be 0:01:06.200 --> 0:01:09.961 considered evidence and point to the challenges of verifying facts 0:01:10.041 --> 0:01:14.041 inherent in cold cases. We remind listeners that everyone has 0:01:14.080 --> 0:01:17.160 presumed innocent until proven guilty in a court of law. 0:01:17.961 --> 0:01:20.840 Nothing in the podcast is intended to state or imply 0:01:21.041 --> 0:01:23.601 that anyone who has not been convicted of a crime 0:01:24.121 --> 0:01:27.121 is guilty of any wrongdoing. Thanks for listening. 0:01:30.200 --> 0:01:34.481 On Tuesday, November twenty fifth, nineteen ninety seven, Thanksgiving Day, 0:01:35.241 --> 0:01:37.920 sixteen year old Karen Mitchell had the day off from 0:01:37.920 --> 0:01:41.721 school and was thinking about her future. Karen grew up 0:01:41.721 --> 0:01:44.961 in southern California and for a long time lived with 0:01:45.001 --> 0:01:48.481 her mother, Mary Casper, and her brother James in Whittier, 0:01:48.721 --> 0:01:52.961 a town about twenty miles from Long Beach, California. Karen 0:01:53.041 --> 0:01:55.961 had been attending high school in Long Beach, but Karen 0:01:56.041 --> 0:01:58.561 had recently made the decision to move in with her 0:01:58.561 --> 0:02:01.561 aunt and uncle to a small town in northern California 0:02:01.641 --> 0:02:06.881 called Eureka in Humboldt County, population twenty eight thousand. The 0:02:06.881 --> 0:02:09.921 Guardian newspaper did an interview with Karen's mother, Mary and 0:02:09.960 --> 0:02:13.601 her brother James in twenty fifteen, and according to what 0:02:13.721 --> 0:02:17.121 Mary told the newspaper, Karen didn't really fit in in 0:02:17.201 --> 0:02:20.240 Long Beach. She was kind of a hippie, very into 0:02:20.281 --> 0:02:24.081 the environment, animals and nature. She didn't care about fashion 0:02:24.201 --> 0:02:26.001 or makeup like a lot of the other girls in 0:02:26.041 --> 0:02:29.721 her class. It seemed like there was some conflict brewing 0:02:29.800 --> 0:02:32.481 at home, her mom told the newspaper. They had been 0:02:32.481 --> 0:02:35.561 butting heads and arguing more often. A lot of it 0:02:35.641 --> 0:02:38.361 seemed to be typical teenage stuff, But they came to 0:02:38.401 --> 0:02:42.001 the conclusion Karen wasn't happy in southern California. It just 0:02:42.041 --> 0:02:44.001 didn't seem to be the right environment for kid Karen. 0:02:44.761 --> 0:02:48.041 So Karen and Mary decided that Karen would spend a 0:02:48.121 --> 0:02:50.721 year living with her aunt Annie and uncle Bill Casper 0:02:50.800 --> 0:02:54.681 in northern California. This was a much more rural area 0:02:54.721 --> 0:02:58.121 where she could enjoy nature, and also thought to be 0:02:58.241 --> 0:03:00.561 a safer area with a slower pace of living. 0:03:01.801 --> 0:03:03.441 After living in Eureka. 0:03:03.121 --> 0:03:06.001 For a few months, it seemed like Karen was happy there, 0:03:06.161 --> 0:03:08.761 at least at first. She had found a job at 0:03:08.801 --> 0:03:11.641 a local daycare and was scheduled to work on that 0:03:11.681 --> 0:03:16.201 Tuesday afternoon. Annie Casper, Karen's aunt, was her legal guardian. 0:03:16.641 --> 0:03:19.240 She owned a shoe store inside the Bay Shore Mall. 0:03:20.121 --> 0:03:22.961 That day, because there was no school, Karen caught a 0:03:23.041 --> 0:03:25.241 ride with Annie to her shoe shop, which was in 0:03:25.281 --> 0:03:28.041 the thirty three hundred block of Broadway Street, the local 0:03:28.121 --> 0:03:31.001 name for the one oh one Freeway now the one 0:03:31.041 --> 0:03:34.001 oh one Freeway, was the main and pretty much only 0:03:34.201 --> 0:03:35.281 thoroughfare through town. 0:03:36.281 --> 0:03:38.241 The mall was about three quarters. 0:03:37.921 --> 0:03:40.521 Of a mile to a mile from Humboldt Childcare Council, 0:03:40.961 --> 0:03:45.201 the daycare where Karen worked. Spent some time hanging out 0:03:45.201 --> 0:03:47.841 with her Anne at the store, then she left for work. 0:03:48.521 --> 0:03:51.081 Her route took her north on a street that in 0:03:51.161 --> 0:03:55.201 Eureka is sometimes referred to as Broadway. Karen headed on 0:03:55.281 --> 0:03:58.321 foot in the direction of West Sonoma Street in Eureka 0:03:58.801 --> 0:04:03.201 to her workplace at around two forty five pm. Karen's 0:04:03.201 --> 0:04:05.761 trip to work should have taken her about a mile 0:04:05.801 --> 0:04:08.361 down the one oh one, a highway that was heavily 0:04:08.441 --> 0:04:11.001 populated and This was in the middle of the day, 0:04:11.961 --> 0:04:15.241 but her aunt Annie came to the childcare center around 0:04:15.241 --> 0:04:18.001 three hours later to pick Karen up. That's when she 0:04:18.041 --> 0:04:22.121 figured out Karen never made it to work. Annie immediately 0:04:22.200 --> 0:04:25.640 knew that something was wrong. She called Karen's mother, Mary 0:04:25.721 --> 0:04:29.481 in southern California. They called the police to report Karen missing. 0:04:30.161 --> 0:04:32.401 Mary drove up to Eureka to help look for Karen, 0:04:33.200 --> 0:04:38.520 but Mary never saw her daughter alive again. Karen Mitchell 0:04:38.921 --> 0:04:43.721 was gone. I'm Catherine Townsend. Over the past seven years 0:04:43.921 --> 0:04:47.080 of making my true crime podcast, Helen Gone, I've learned 0:04:47.121 --> 0:04:49.241 that there is no such thing as a small town 0:04:49.320 --> 0:04:52.960 where murder never happens. I have received hundreds of messages 0:04:53.001 --> 0:04:55.841 from people all around the country asking for help with 0:04:55.880 --> 0:05:00.081 an unsolved murder that's affected them, their families, and their communities. 0:05:00.681 --> 0:05:02.561 If you have a case you'd like me and my 0:05:02.601 --> 0:05:04.761 team to look into, you can reach out to us 0:05:04.801 --> 0:05:07.441 at our Helen Gone Murder Line at six seven eight 0:05:07.561 --> 0:05:10.841 seven four four six one four five. That's six seven 0:05:10.881 --> 0:05:14.760 eight seven four four six one four five, or you 0:05:14.801 --> 0:05:18.601 can send us a message on Instagram at Helen Gonepod. 0:05:19.401 --> 0:06:06.280 This is Helen Gone Murder Line. Karen Mitchell was born 0:06:06.361 --> 0:06:09.841 on November thirtieth, nineteen eighty. She grew up in Whittier, 0:06:10.081 --> 0:06:13.241 about twenty five miles from Long Beach, California, and stayed 0:06:13.281 --> 0:06:17.001 there through junior high school. Her mom and aunt told 0:06:17.161 --> 0:06:20.801 Dateline that even as a little girl, Karen cared deeply 0:06:20.881 --> 0:06:24.841 about people and causes. She did things like attend peace 0:06:24.921 --> 0:06:28.081 rallies or give money to people in need. Her aunt, 0:06:28.161 --> 0:06:31.641 Annie described her to Dateline as a very smart young woman. 0:06:31.721 --> 0:06:33.400 Who was an old soul. 0:06:34.481 --> 0:06:36.841 And even though Karen had moved Nora to be with 0:06:36.881 --> 0:06:40.281 her aunt and uncle, she maintained a close relationship with 0:06:40.321 --> 0:06:44.561 her mother, Mary and her brother. They spoke regularly. Karen 0:06:44.601 --> 0:06:48.161 came home for summer and for school holidays. In fact, 0:06:48.441 --> 0:06:51.721 Karen had been planning to fly home over Christmas. She 0:06:51.761 --> 0:06:55.241 had already bought the tickets, but the tickets remained unused. 0:06:56.801 --> 0:06:59.961 Police asked Karen's family about their last contact with her. 0:07:00.721 --> 0:07:04.121 Mary told investigators that her last phone conversation was on 0:07:04.241 --> 0:07:08.041 the morning that Karen disappeared. Because even though Karen was 0:07:08.041 --> 0:07:11.001 happy in Eureka and making friends and getting good grades, 0:07:11.681 --> 0:07:14.681 she also seemed to be getting restless. She had told 0:07:14.721 --> 0:07:16.921 her mom she hoped to finish high school in the 0:07:16.961 --> 0:07:20.321 next few months, to graduate early, and then to enroll 0:07:20.441 --> 0:07:24.281 at Humboldt State College. The school now known as California 0:07:24.321 --> 0:07:28.601 State Polytechnic University. So Karen and her mother had spent 0:07:28.641 --> 0:07:31.681 the morning chatting and filling out a college application over 0:07:31.721 --> 0:07:35.241 the phone. Both her mom and her aunt said Karen 0:07:35.281 --> 0:07:40.321 would never disappear voluntarily. Soon police and searchers were scouring 0:07:40.321 --> 0:07:44.961 the area. Karen's missing posters went up everywhere. According to 0:07:45.041 --> 0:07:48.601 the missing person's info posted on the dough project, Karen 0:07:48.761 --> 0:07:51.601 was five feet inches tall, weighing one hundred and thirty pounds. 0:07:51.921 --> 0:07:55.001 She had short, sandy blonde hair that went to her neck, 0:07:55.321 --> 0:07:59.281 and greenish blue eyes. She was last seen wearing a 0:07:59.361 --> 0:08:03.481 long sleeved tan shirt, baggy dark brown corduroy pants, and 0:08:03.681 --> 0:08:07.441 tan leather shoes with buckles. Karen was also wearing some jewelry, 0:08:07.761 --> 0:08:11.121 a silver necklace with crystal, three silver rings, and small 0:08:11.161 --> 0:08:15.161 hoop earrings, and she was carrying a reusable now Jean 0:08:15.281 --> 0:08:19.881 water bottle. Police scoured the area with canines and kidaver 0:08:19.961 --> 0:08:24.041 sniffing dogs. Volunteers in law enforcement searched a lot of terrain. 0:08:24.921 --> 0:08:27.801 They had a big response. A lot of people saw 0:08:27.841 --> 0:08:31.121 those posters and some reached out with tips. A motel 0:08:31.201 --> 0:08:33.601 owner reached out to Mary and said he believed that 0:08:33.680 --> 0:08:36.561 Karen was at his motel, so she rushed there and 0:08:36.601 --> 0:08:39.961 saw young woman. This young woman looked like Karen, but 0:08:40.040 --> 0:08:43.600 it wasn't her. Then a few months after Karen disappeared, 0:08:43.841 --> 0:08:47.561 police got a potential lead. A witness came forward who 0:08:47.601 --> 0:08:49.841 said that he saw a woman whom he believed to 0:08:49.841 --> 0:08:53.121 be Karen on the day she disappeared getting into a vehicle. 0:08:54.040 --> 0:08:57.280 The witness described the vehicle as a light blue fordor 0:08:57.481 --> 0:09:01.201 nineteen seventy six to nineteen seventy eight sedan, possibly a 0:09:01.280 --> 0:09:05.601 Ford Granada, a Mercury Monarch, or a Nissan. The most 0:09:05.680 --> 0:09:08.641 memorable part of the description was actually the license plates. 0:09:09.160 --> 0:09:12.721 According to the witness, the driver had California license plates 0:09:12.881 --> 0:09:15.960 and the word Eureka printed on the rear plate's frame. 0:09:17.161 --> 0:09:20.440 This person, the witness, claimed that they actually almost got 0:09:20.481 --> 0:09:23.041 into a car accident when the man in the mystery 0:09:23.081 --> 0:09:26.041 vehicle turned onto Broadway Street aka the one oh one, 0:09:26.401 --> 0:09:29.921 and nearly hit him. After that, the witness said the 0:09:29.961 --> 0:09:32.801 car stopped and picked up a young woman who matched 0:09:32.841 --> 0:09:37.841 Karen's description, so, presumably because they were probably a little 0:09:37.841 --> 0:09:41.961 bit shaken, the witness remembered the driver well. The witness 0:09:41.961 --> 0:09:44.241 described the driver of the car as a white mail 0:09:44.361 --> 0:09:48.321 approximately sixty to seventy years old, with balding, light gray 0:09:48.441 --> 0:09:52.040 or sandy blonde hair. The witness helped police create a 0:09:52.081 --> 0:09:55.601 composite sketch with even more details, including that the man 0:09:55.681 --> 0:09:58.481 had green or gray eyes and a large sized nose 0:09:58.801 --> 0:10:01.961 that appeared to have been previously broken, and that he 0:10:02.001 --> 0:10:05.921 had a small build and wore eyeglasses. The witness stated 0:10:05.961 --> 0:10:08.321 that the driver of the car was wearing a long sleeve, 0:10:08.401 --> 0:10:11.681 buttoned down light blue shirt. We're going to be posting 0:10:11.681 --> 0:10:15.081 sketches of the car and the driver on Instagram at 0:10:15.161 --> 0:10:20.481 hellen gonpod. Because this case is still technically open, there 0:10:20.561 --> 0:10:23.040 is not a lot of information out there about how 0:10:23.121 --> 0:10:26.641 police chase down this leet, but it was reported on 0:10:26.761 --> 0:10:30.241 Charlie project dot org that police did find a car 0:10:30.441 --> 0:10:34.680 similar to the car reported by the witness. Then, shortly 0:10:34.721 --> 0:10:39.441 after Karen disappeared, they apparently located the driver and gave 0:10:39.481 --> 0:10:43.160 that person a polygraph test. It was reported that that 0:10:43.201 --> 0:10:46.961 person w ultimately cleared of any involvement in Karen's disappearance, 0:10:47.801 --> 0:10:52.281 but again we don't know details. Was this definitely the 0:10:52.321 --> 0:10:56.001 car the witness saw, did the Eureka plates match or 0:10:56.081 --> 0:10:58.761 did police just find a car that resembled the description 0:10:58.841 --> 0:11:01.601 given by the witness and questioned the driver of that car. 0:11:02.841 --> 0:11:04.121 Like a lot of things. 0:11:03.841 --> 0:11:06.721 In this case, because this is still an open investigation, 0:11:07.280 --> 0:11:11.041 we're just not sure. I also have some other questions, 0:11:11.081 --> 0:11:16.641 including how reliable is this witness description, because it hits 0:11:16.681 --> 0:11:18.881 me that the witness must have been very close to 0:11:18.921 --> 0:11:22.241 that other car to see the driver's eye color. Again, 0:11:22.481 --> 0:11:24.361 I wish we had access to the case file so 0:11:24.401 --> 0:11:26.761 that we could see exactly what this person told the 0:11:26.801 --> 0:11:31.081 police in the complete interview, because so much of the 0:11:31.121 --> 0:11:35.521 subsequent investigation appears to be based on this witness description. 0:11:36.201 --> 0:11:39.241 It would be super helpful to find out if police 0:11:39.401 --> 0:11:42.241 were able to be sure that this was Karen the 0:11:42.280 --> 0:11:50.281 witness saw. Karen's disappearance shocked the local community. For the 0:11:50.280 --> 0:11:53.001 most part, the area where Karen vanished as known as 0:11:53.041 --> 0:11:56.441 a pretty safe area, and Karen went missing in the 0:11:56.441 --> 0:11:59.641 middle of the day in a well trafficked area. Plus, 0:11:59.641 --> 0:12:02.281 of course, the irony of all this was a part 0:12:02.280 --> 0:12:04.921 of the reason why Karen moved to Humboldt County in 0:12:04.961 --> 0:12:08.521 the first place was because she and her mom thought 0:12:08.521 --> 0:12:10.521 of it as safer than where she had been living 0:12:10.561 --> 0:12:15.960 in southern California. Karen's mother, Mary, gave the Guardian more background. 0:12:16.321 --> 0:12:18.561 She said she had Karen when she was eighteen years 0:12:18.601 --> 0:12:21.440 old and Karen's brother when she was just sixteen years old. 0:12:22.280 --> 0:12:25.081 Karen's mother was married to their father, but they divorced 0:12:25.081 --> 0:12:28.121 when the kids were young, so Mary raised those two 0:12:28.201 --> 0:12:32.041 children as a single mom for years. She worked multiple 0:12:32.121 --> 0:12:36.321 jobs to support her family. Mary said that her brother 0:12:36.401 --> 0:12:38.800 Bill and his wife Annie were the ones who suggested 0:12:38.801 --> 0:12:40.881 that Karen come and live with them and their three 0:12:40.881 --> 0:12:44.241 sons in Eureka. But, as we said before, or even 0:12:44.280 --> 0:12:47.361 though she seemed to find some peace in Eureka, Karen 0:12:47.441 --> 0:12:50.761 seemed to be getting bored. She started making more concrete 0:12:50.801 --> 0:12:55.481 plans to go to college. Police did consider the possibility 0:12:55.641 --> 0:12:58.321 that Karen could have been a runaway, so just to 0:12:58.401 --> 0:13:01.481 briefly touch on that, on the day she disappeared, she 0:13:01.561 --> 0:13:05.321 was figuring out applications and financial aid. It seemed like 0:13:05.401 --> 0:13:08.201 she was planning for the future, so this made her 0:13:08.201 --> 0:13:11.841 friends and family believe she would not have run away. Also, 0:13:12.041 --> 0:13:14.481 she was very reliable about getting to work on time, 0:13:14.521 --> 0:13:17.601 and she specifically said she was headed there. She didn't 0:13:17.641 --> 0:13:20.841 pack anything to take with her. And also, Karen had 0:13:20.881 --> 0:13:24.441 a bank account. After she disappeared, no one ever tried 0:13:24.481 --> 0:13:27.321 to access that money, and as we said before, she 0:13:27.441 --> 0:13:29.680 never came back home to visit her mother and brother 0:13:29.921 --> 0:13:37.201 with her prepaid airline tickets. Months went by and there 0:13:37.280 --> 0:13:41.361 was zero sign of Karen. Eventually, the searches died down 0:13:41.601 --> 0:13:45.641 and the headline stopped. James went back to southern California 0:13:45.841 --> 0:13:49.680 and they waited. Over the years, Mary has talked to 0:13:49.721 --> 0:13:53.161 the media. She appeared on the Sally Jesse Raphael talk show, 0:13:53.721 --> 0:13:56.241 and she talked regularly with the detective in charge of 0:13:56.280 --> 0:13:57.521 the case, Dave Paris. 0:13:59.001 --> 0:14:01.361 From the interviews that Dave Paris has given. 0:14:01.161 --> 0:14:04.281 About the case, it seems clear that he cared deeply 0:14:04.321 --> 0:14:06.681 about it and it's something that he reflected on a 0:14:06.721 --> 0:14:10.401 lot during his time in law enforcement. Dave Paris told 0:14:10.401 --> 0:14:13.121 the Eureka Time Standard back in twenty twelve that he 0:14:13.201 --> 0:14:15.921 was haunted by the case. He said he'd spent a 0:14:15.961 --> 0:14:18.601 lot of time thinking about what could have happened to 0:14:18.641 --> 0:14:24.001 Karen Parts of Humboldt County are places where it could 0:14:24.001 --> 0:14:27.041 be easy for a person to disappear. It's an area 0:14:27.081 --> 0:14:29.681 that's surrounded by a lot of forests, and there were 0:14:29.721 --> 0:14:33.601 a lot of people growing marijuana in those forests. Giant 0:14:33.761 --> 0:14:37.361 redwood trees block out the view from the road. There 0:14:37.401 --> 0:14:40.321 were also a lot of transients in the area and 0:14:40.481 --> 0:14:41.921 a lot of hitchhikers. 0:14:42.841 --> 0:14:44.121 Karen was added to an. 0:14:44.121 --> 0:14:46.801 Ominous list of young women who had gone missing in 0:14:46.881 --> 0:14:50.281 and around Humboldt County. They were known as the Humbolt Five. 0:14:51.321 --> 0:14:55.201 These young women went missing years apart under different circumstances 0:14:55.241 --> 0:14:58.601 in various parts of the county. There's no evident connection 0:14:58.721 --> 0:15:02.321 between any of the cases. The only commonality is that 0:15:02.401 --> 0:15:04.481 all of them were young women, and none of them 0:15:04.601 --> 0:15:08.121 were ever seen again. There's actually a spot there called 0:15:08.201 --> 0:15:12.121 Alder Point that is nicknamed Murder Mountain. It was originally 0:15:12.121 --> 0:15:15.161 apparently nicknamed that after a serial killing couple hid out 0:15:15.161 --> 0:15:18.201 there in nineteen eighty two, but the name kind of 0:15:18.241 --> 0:15:22.641 stuck around. Netflix actually made a documentary about missing people 0:15:22.681 --> 0:15:26.481 in the area called Murder Mountain, but later questions emerged 0:15:26.561 --> 0:15:30.241 about how accurate these statistics of missing people were. In 0:15:30.281 --> 0:15:34.281 the area because it's been widely reported that. The California 0:15:34.321 --> 0:15:37.921 Department of Justice stated that in twenty twenty four, two 0:15:37.961 --> 0:15:40.321 hundred and forty four children and two hundred and thirty 0:15:40.361 --> 0:15:44.161 eight adults were reported missing from Homboldt County, But the 0:15:44.281 --> 0:15:48.281 Sheriff of Humboldt County made a statement to KRCR news. 0:15:48.841 --> 0:15:51.641 He pointed out that of the two hundred and forty 0:15:51.641 --> 0:15:55.201 four juveniles reported missing, two hundred and forty two of 0:15:55.241 --> 0:15:58.921 them were later found, and out of the two hundred 0:15:58.961 --> 0:16:01.921 and thirty eight adults that were reported missing, two hundred 0:16:01.921 --> 0:16:02.761 and three were found. 0:16:02.801 --> 0:16:06.201 So yes, at first glance, the. 0:16:06.161 --> 0:16:08.081 Sheriff said, there seemed to be a lot of missing 0:16:08.081 --> 0:16:10.921 people in Humboldt County, but you have to look at 0:16:10.961 --> 0:16:13.601 the other side of the equation. Most of those people 0:16:13.761 --> 0:16:22.281 are eventually found. Unfortunately, Karen Mitchell was not one of them. 0:16:22.601 --> 0:16:25.561 Over the years, there were some suspects and people of 0:16:25.601 --> 0:16:30.521 interest who popped up, including two very high profile serial killers. 0:16:31.281 --> 0:16:34.241 One of them was a man named Wayne adam Ford. 0:16:45.881 --> 0:16:49.081 At around six thirty pm on November third, nineteen ninety eight, 0:16:49.481 --> 0:16:52.321 thirty six year old Wayne adam Ford walked into the 0:16:52.401 --> 0:16:56.521 Humboldt County Sheriff's office with his brother. He told police 0:16:56.761 --> 0:17:00.121 he wanted to confess to murder. Then he held out 0:17:00.161 --> 0:17:03.401 a piece of female breast that was sealed inside a 0:17:03.441 --> 0:17:07.961 plastic bag that he had in his jacket pocket. Wayne 0:17:08.120 --> 0:17:11.241 adam Ford had a connection to the area. He had 0:17:11.241 --> 0:17:14.921 lived in Trinidad, a town about thirty minutes outside of Eureka. 0:17:15.600 --> 0:17:17.761 He was recently divorced at the time and had a 0:17:17.761 --> 0:17:21.241 two year old son. He lived a fairly isolated life. 0:17:21.561 --> 0:17:25.761 His wife and son were living in Las Vegas. Wayne 0:17:25.840 --> 0:17:28.481 was a long haul trucker, which he claimed gave him 0:17:28.521 --> 0:17:32.801 access to his female victims. Women came forward and described 0:17:32.840 --> 0:17:35.600 being attacked by a man who matched Wayne's description, and 0:17:35.681 --> 0:17:36.481 he drove a truck. 0:17:37.241 --> 0:17:39.881 Police explored the possibility. 0:17:39.241 --> 0:17:41.840 That he may have been involved in other crimes, including 0:17:42.001 --> 0:17:46.681 other murders. Carlton Smith, author of a book called Shadows 0:17:46.681 --> 0:17:49.481 of Evil, pointed out in the book that this was 0:17:49.521 --> 0:17:53.161 an interesting case because behavioral analysts at the FBI training 0:17:53.161 --> 0:17:57.281 facility at Quantico at the time believed serial killers tend 0:17:57.281 --> 0:18:00.241 to escalate over time. In other words, their murders get 0:18:00.281 --> 0:18:04.160 worse and more brutal. But Wayne's trajectory seemed to be 0:18:04.201 --> 0:18:09.681 the opposite. Wayne eventually confessed to murdering four people, including 0:18:09.761 --> 0:18:13.400 a young woman, Jane Doe. Her torso was found floating 0:18:13.441 --> 0:18:17.361 in Humboldt County near Eureka. Her case was known as 0:18:17.401 --> 0:18:21.561 the Torso Case. In twenty twenty three, Jane Doe was 0:18:21.641 --> 0:18:25.640 finally identified as twenty five year old carry Ann Cummings. 0:18:25.881 --> 0:18:28.881 Wayne was eventually convicted of killing carry Anne and three 0:18:28.881 --> 0:18:32.841 other victims. Twenty six year old Tina Renee Gibbs, who 0:18:32.921 --> 0:18:35.721 was killed in Las Vegas on May sixteenth, nineteen ninety eight, 0:18:35.961 --> 0:18:39.761 and her body dumped in Kern County, California. Twenty five 0:18:39.840 --> 0:18:43.081 year old Lynette White, who was murdered on September twenty fifth, 0:18:43.161 --> 0:18:47.521 nineteen nine, and Ontario, California. Her body was dumped in 0:18:47.561 --> 0:18:51.641 an irrigation canal near Lodi, California. The final victim was 0:18:51.721 --> 0:18:56.281 twenty nine year old Patricia Times. She was murdered in Hissperia, California, 0:18:56.321 --> 0:18:59.281 in October of nineteen ninety eight. Her body was dumped 0:18:59.281 --> 0:19:03.360 in an aqueduct in San Bernardino County. Wayne claimed that 0:19:03.401 --> 0:19:06.761 he picked up three of his victims as hitchhikers, but 0:19:07.161 --> 0:19:09.361 police said there were parts of his story that didn't 0:19:09.401 --> 0:19:13.201 really make sense. They said three of Wayne's victims were 0:19:13.241 --> 0:19:17.080 known sex workers. Because of that, they believe Wain was 0:19:17.161 --> 0:19:19.801 lying about the real reason why they initially got into 0:19:19.840 --> 0:19:23.441 his vehicle, but he was telling the truth. 0:19:23.201 --> 0:19:24.881 About where the bodies were located. 0:19:25.601 --> 0:19:28.321 Waine was also unusual, and then he randomly showed up 0:19:28.361 --> 0:19:31.001 to confess to his crimes, and he seemed to have 0:19:31.121 --> 0:19:34.241 a genuine desire to stop rather than trying to just 0:19:34.281 --> 0:19:38.441 taunt the police. Police have stated Wayne killed his first 0:19:38.521 --> 0:19:42.121 victim about a month before Karen disappeared, but other than 0:19:42.201 --> 0:19:44.681 proximity to Karen, there wasn't much to. 0:19:44.641 --> 0:19:45.801 Go on evidence wise. 0:19:46.401 --> 0:19:49.921 Neither the vehicle nor the description of the driver matched 0:19:50.001 --> 0:19:53.601 Wayne Ford's appearance. It was reported in nineteen ninety nine 0:19:54.080 --> 0:19:57.600 in the Los Angeles Times that police were waiting on 0:19:57.721 --> 0:20:00.401 DNA tests to see if Wayne could be linked to 0:20:00.481 --> 0:20:05.761 Karen's case, but after that nothing further was reported and 0:20:05.840 --> 0:20:09.160 police did not move forward with pursuing a case against Wayne. 0:20:10.041 --> 0:20:13.201 Wayne was operating in the same area as where Karen 0:20:13.241 --> 0:20:16.281 went missing, but he drove a truck, not the car 0:20:16.361 --> 0:20:19.600 the witness described, and the link between him and Karen 0:20:19.801 --> 0:20:23.400 was never established. Not to mention the fact that Wayne 0:20:23.401 --> 0:20:27.281 confessed to his kills but he never mentioned Karen. Of course, 0:20:27.521 --> 0:20:32.120 serial killers and killers in general, can lie, especially when 0:20:32.161 --> 0:20:36.121 they have something to gain. In Mary and James's twenty 0:20:36.161 --> 0:20:39.721 fifteen interview with the Guardian, the writer asked Mary Casper 0:20:39.761 --> 0:20:43.080 about the Wayne Ford rumors. Mary told the Guardian the 0:20:43.121 --> 0:20:46.960 detective Ferris told her Wayne Ford was given a lie 0:20:47.001 --> 0:20:50.001 detector test and that he was specifically questioned about Karen, 0:20:50.601 --> 0:20:53.600 that Wayne had denied having anything to do with her disappearance, 0:20:53.601 --> 0:20:57.361 and that apparently he passed that test. Mary also told 0:20:57.401 --> 0:20:59.481 the newspapers she went a step further. She said in 0:20:59.521 --> 0:21:03.160 two thousand she personally went to see Wayne Ford in prison. 0:21:03.801 --> 0:21:06.681 Mary said she asked him point blank if he killed Karen. 0:21:07.241 --> 0:21:11.881 She also showed Wayne pictures of her daughter. Mary claimed 0:21:11.921 --> 0:21:14.481 that Wayne told her that quote she looks like she 0:21:14.561 --> 0:21:15.521 could be one of mine. 0:21:15.801 --> 0:21:17.001 End quote. 0:21:17.161 --> 0:21:19.600 But Mary said Wayne was asking her to write to 0:21:19.681 --> 0:21:22.641 him in prison and offering to give her information little 0:21:22.641 --> 0:21:24.201 by little, so she said no. 0:21:25.241 --> 0:21:26.241 For what it's worth. 0:21:26.441 --> 0:21:29.400 I think that Mary refusing to write to Wayne was 0:21:29.481 --> 0:21:32.481 the right call. This is just my opinion, but I 0:21:32.561 --> 0:21:35.721 see way too many instances of killers in prison who 0:21:35.840 --> 0:21:38.561 seemed to get a kick out of streaming along journalists 0:21:38.561 --> 0:21:41.921 and family members other people who write to them. In 0:21:41.961 --> 0:21:44.120 the end, most of them just end up wasting a 0:21:44.121 --> 0:21:48.201 lot of time and for those closest to the victim, causing. 0:21:47.921 --> 0:21:49.641 Even more heartache. 0:21:49.761 --> 0:21:52.840 But it does show how much Mary loved her daughter 0:21:53.201 --> 0:21:55.160 and how she was willing to go to any links 0:21:55.201 --> 0:21:57.201 to try to get answers about what happened to her. 0:21:58.321 --> 0:22:00.881 Karen's case made headlines again in two thousand and two. 0:22:01.401 --> 0:22:04.321 It was reported in the Sioux City Journal that police 0:22:04.321 --> 0:22:07.881 in California were looking at similarities between Karen's case and 0:22:08.080 --> 0:22:10.841 the cases of two young women who were murdered in Oregon. 0:22:12.121 --> 0:22:14.841 In January of two thousand and two, twelve year old 0:22:14.881 --> 0:22:17.721 Ashley Pond disappeared on her way to the bus stop 0:22:17.721 --> 0:22:21.321 in Oregon City. Then two months later, a classmate of hers, 0:22:21.601 --> 0:22:26.121 thirteen year old Miranda Gaddis, also disappeared in the same neighborhood, 0:22:26.241 --> 0:22:29.880 also near a bus stop. The two girls' bodies were 0:22:29.921 --> 0:22:33.201 eventually found at a property rented by thirty nine year 0:22:33.241 --> 0:22:37.201 old Ward Weaver the Third. Ward Weaver the Third lived 0:22:37.281 --> 0:22:40.481 near the area where both girls disappeared. One of the 0:22:40.521 --> 0:22:43.561 girl's bodies was found in a shed. The other body 0:22:43.601 --> 0:22:48.001 was found buried under a concrete slab. Police found the 0:22:48.041 --> 0:22:51.041 bodies when they were investigating Ward Weaver for the rape 0:22:51.080 --> 0:22:55.241 of his son's girlfriend. In two thousand and four, Ward 0:22:55.241 --> 0:22:58.160 Weaver was sentenced to life without the possibility of parole 0:22:58.441 --> 0:23:02.321 for the sexual assault and murders of Miranda and Ashley. 0:23:03.201 --> 0:23:06.521 Even though those murders happened in Oregon, it was reported 0:23:06.561 --> 0:23:09.201 that Ward Weaver grew up in Eureka, the same town 0:23:09.241 --> 0:23:13.201 where Karen was living at the time of her disappearance. Randomly, 0:23:13.441 --> 0:23:17.801 Ward Weaver the Third's father, Ward Weaver Junior, is also 0:23:18.080 --> 0:23:22.160 a convicted serial killer. Ward Weaver Junior was arrested and 0:23:22.201 --> 0:23:24.640 convicted of the murders of a young couple in nineteen 0:23:24.681 --> 0:23:28.681 eighty one and dumping their bodies under concrete in his backyard. 0:23:29.721 --> 0:23:32.441 At the time Karen went missing, it was reported that 0:23:32.481 --> 0:23:35.921 Ward Junior, the father was in prison. Other than Ward 0:23:35.921 --> 0:23:39.120 the Third's proximity to Karen Mitchell's hometown. At some point, 0:23:39.761 --> 0:23:43.681 police apparently determined there was no connection between Ward Weaver 0:23:44.001 --> 0:23:50.161 and Karen Mitchell, but in twenty fifteen, another very infamous 0:23:50.281 --> 0:23:53.401 name came up as being potentially connected to Karen's case. 0:23:54.281 --> 0:24:04.921 Multi millionaire real estate scion turned serial killer Robert Durst. 0:24:09.881 --> 0:24:12.361 Robert Durst, of course, was a member of the Durst 0:24:12.401 --> 0:24:16.721 family of Manhattan real estate magnets. His family was worth 0:24:16.721 --> 0:24:20.600 an estimated eight billion dollars and founded the Durst Organization, 0:24:21.241 --> 0:24:23.721 which eventually went on to own, manage, and build and 0:24:23.881 --> 0:24:29.281 estimated thirteen million square feet in Manhattan office towers. Robert Durst, 0:24:29.321 --> 0:24:32.481 of course, became a household name early in twenty fifteen 0:24:32.881 --> 0:24:36.801 after being the subject of the HBO documentary series The James. 0:24:37.401 --> 0:24:39.880 I won't go through all the details of this case. 0:24:40.281 --> 0:24:42.920 This story is a much too long and bizarre to 0:24:42.921 --> 0:24:46.561 cover completely here, but just to briefly recap, Robert Durst 0:24:46.601 --> 0:24:49.241 was suspected of several murders when the documentary aired in 0:24:49.241 --> 0:24:52.921 twenty fifteen, including the killing of his neighbor Morris Black 0:24:52.921 --> 0:24:55.441 in Texas in two thousand and one, the murder of 0:24:55.481 --> 0:24:58.241 his friend Susan Berman in Los Angeles in two thousand 0:24:58.561 --> 0:25:00.840 and the murder of his wife, Kathleen, who went missing 0:25:00.881 --> 0:25:05.201 in nineteen eighty two under very suspicious circumstances. Kathleen was 0:25:05.241 --> 0:25:07.521