1 00:00:46,480 --> 00:00:51,961 Speaker 1: School of Humans. Helen Got Murder Line actively investigates cold 2 00:00:52,040 --> 00:00:55,361 Speaker 1: case murders in an effort to raise public awareness invite 3 00:00:55,401 --> 00:00:58,761 Speaker 1: witnesses to come forward and present evidence that could potentially 4 00:00:58,840 --> 00:01:02,961 Speaker 1: be further investigated by law enforcement. While we value insights 5 00:01:03,001 --> 00:01:06,160 Speaker 1: from family and community members, their statements should not be 6 00:01:06,200 --> 00:01:09,961 Speaker 1: considered evidence and point to the challenges of verifying facts 7 00:01:10,041 --> 00:01:14,041 Speaker 1: inherent in cold cases. We remind listeners that everyone has 8 00:01:14,080 --> 00:01:17,160 Speaker 1: presumed innocent until proven guilty in a court of law. 9 00:01:17,961 --> 00:01:20,840 Speaker 1: Nothing in the podcast is intended to state or imply 10 00:01:21,041 --> 00:01:23,601 Speaker 1: that anyone who has not been convicted of a crime 11 00:01:24,121 --> 00:01:27,121 Speaker 1: is guilty of any wrongdoing. Thanks for listening. 12 00:01:30,200 --> 00:01:34,481 Speaker 2: On Tuesday, November twenty fifth, nineteen ninety seven, Thanksgiving Day, 13 00:01:35,241 --> 00:01:37,920 Speaker 2: sixteen year old Karen Mitchell had the day off from 14 00:01:37,920 --> 00:01:41,721 Speaker 2: school and was thinking about her future. Karen grew up 15 00:01:41,721 --> 00:01:44,961 Speaker 2: in southern California and for a long time lived with 16 00:01:45,001 --> 00:01:48,481 Speaker 2: her mother, Mary Casper, and her brother James in Whittier, 17 00:01:48,721 --> 00:01:52,961 Speaker 2: a town about twenty miles from Long Beach, California. Karen 18 00:01:53,041 --> 00:01:55,961 Speaker 2: had been attending high school in Long Beach, but Karen 19 00:01:56,041 --> 00:01:58,561 Speaker 2: had recently made the decision to move in with her 20 00:01:58,561 --> 00:02:01,561 Speaker 2: aunt and uncle to a small town in northern California 21 00:02:01,641 --> 00:02:06,881 Speaker 2: called Eureka in Humboldt County, population twenty eight thousand. The 22 00:02:06,881 --> 00:02:09,921 Speaker 2: Guardian newspaper did an interview with Karen's mother, Mary and 23 00:02:09,960 --> 00:02:13,601 Speaker 2: her brother James in twenty fifteen, and according to what 24 00:02:13,721 --> 00:02:17,121 Speaker 2: Mary told the newspaper, Karen didn't really fit in in 25 00:02:17,201 --> 00:02:20,240 Speaker 2: Long Beach. She was kind of a hippie, very into 26 00:02:20,281 --> 00:02:24,081 Speaker 2: the environment, animals and nature. She didn't care about fashion 27 00:02:24,201 --> 00:02:26,001 Speaker 2: or makeup like a lot of the other girls in 28 00:02:26,041 --> 00:02:29,721 Speaker 2: her class. It seemed like there was some conflict brewing 29 00:02:29,800 --> 00:02:32,481 Speaker 2: at home, her mom told the newspaper. They had been 30 00:02:32,481 --> 00:02:35,561 Speaker 2: butting heads and arguing more often. A lot of it 31 00:02:35,641 --> 00:02:38,361 Speaker 2: seemed to be typical teenage stuff, But they came to 32 00:02:38,401 --> 00:02:42,001 Speaker 2: the conclusion Karen wasn't happy in southern California. It just 33 00:02:42,041 --> 00:02:44,001 Speaker 2: didn't seem to be the right environment for kid Karen. 34 00:02:44,761 --> 00:02:48,041 Speaker 2: So Karen and Mary decided that Karen would spend a 35 00:02:48,121 --> 00:02:50,721 Speaker 2: year living with her aunt Annie and uncle Bill Casper 36 00:02:50,800 --> 00:02:54,681 Speaker 2: in northern California. This was a much more rural area 37 00:02:54,721 --> 00:02:58,121 Speaker 2: where she could enjoy nature, and also thought to be 38 00:02:58,241 --> 00:03:00,561 Speaker 2: a safer area with a slower pace of living. 39 00:03:01,801 --> 00:03:03,441 Speaker 3: After living in Eureka. 40 00:03:03,121 --> 00:03:06,001 Speaker 2: For a few months, it seemed like Karen was happy there, 41 00:03:06,161 --> 00:03:08,761 Speaker 2: at least at first. She had found a job at 42 00:03:08,801 --> 00:03:11,641 Speaker 2: a local daycare and was scheduled to work on that 43 00:03:11,681 --> 00:03:16,201 Speaker 2: Tuesday afternoon. Annie Casper, Karen's aunt, was her legal guardian. 44 00:03:16,641 --> 00:03:19,240 Speaker 2: She owned a shoe store inside the Bay Shore Mall. 45 00:03:20,121 --> 00:03:22,961 Speaker 2: That day, because there was no school, Karen caught a 46 00:03:23,041 --> 00:03:25,241 Speaker 2: ride with Annie to her shoe shop, which was in 47 00:03:25,281 --> 00:03:28,041 Speaker 2: the thirty three hundred block of Broadway Street, the local 48 00:03:28,121 --> 00:03:31,001 Speaker 2: name for the one oh one Freeway now the one 49 00:03:31,041 --> 00:03:34,001 Speaker 2: oh one Freeway, was the main and pretty much only 50 00:03:34,201 --> 00:03:35,281 Speaker 2: thoroughfare through town. 51 00:03:36,281 --> 00:03:38,241 Speaker 3: The mall was about three quarters. 52 00:03:37,921 --> 00:03:40,521 Speaker 2: Of a mile to a mile from Humboldt Childcare Council, 53 00:03:40,961 --> 00:03:45,201 Speaker 2: the daycare where Karen worked. Spent some time hanging out 54 00:03:45,201 --> 00:03:47,841 Speaker 2: with her Anne at the store, then she left for work. 55 00:03:48,521 --> 00:03:51,081 Speaker 2: Her route took her north on a street that in 56 00:03:51,161 --> 00:03:55,201 Speaker 2: Eureka is sometimes referred to as Broadway. Karen headed on 57 00:03:55,281 --> 00:03:58,321 Speaker 2: foot in the direction of West Sonoma Street in Eureka 58 00:03:58,801 --> 00:04:03,201 Speaker 2: to her workplace at around two forty five pm. Karen's 59 00:04:03,201 --> 00:04:05,761 Speaker 2: trip to work should have taken her about a mile 60 00:04:05,801 --> 00:04:08,361 Speaker 2: down the one oh one, a highway that was heavily 61 00:04:08,441 --> 00:04:11,001 Speaker 2: populated and This was in the middle of the day, 62 00:04:11,961 --> 00:04:15,241 Speaker 2: but her aunt Annie came to the childcare center around 63 00:04:15,241 --> 00:04:18,001 Speaker 2: three hours later to pick Karen up. That's when she 64 00:04:18,041 --> 00:04:22,121 Speaker 2: figured out Karen never made it to work. Annie immediately 65 00:04:22,200 --> 00:04:25,640 Speaker 2: knew that something was wrong. She called Karen's mother, Mary 66 00:04:25,721 --> 00:04:29,481 Speaker 2: in southern California. They called the police to report Karen missing. 67 00:04:30,161 --> 00:04:32,401 Speaker 2: Mary drove up to Eureka to help look for Karen, 68 00:04:33,200 --> 00:04:38,520 Speaker 2: but Mary never saw her daughter alive again. Karen Mitchell 69 00:04:38,921 --> 00:04:43,721 Speaker 2: was gone. I'm Catherine Townsend. Over the past seven years 70 00:04:43,921 --> 00:04:47,080 Speaker 2: of making my true crime podcast, Helen Gone, I've learned 71 00:04:47,121 --> 00:04:49,241 Speaker 2: that there is no such thing as a small town 72 00:04:49,320 --> 00:04:52,960 Speaker 2: where murder never happens. I have received hundreds of messages 73 00:04:53,001 --> 00:04:55,841 Speaker 2: from people all around the country asking for help with 74 00:04:55,880 --> 00:05:00,081 Speaker 2: an unsolved murder that's affected them, their families, and their communities. 75 00:05:00,681 --> 00:05:02,561 Speaker 2: If you have a case you'd like me and my 76 00:05:02,601 --> 00:05:04,761 Speaker 2: team to look into, you can reach out to us 77 00:05:04,801 --> 00:05:07,441 Speaker 2: at our Helen Gone Murder Line at six seven eight 78 00:05:07,561 --> 00:05:10,841 Speaker 2: seven four four six one four five. That's six seven 79 00:05:10,881 --> 00:05:14,760 Speaker 2: eight seven four four six one four five, or you 80 00:05:14,801 --> 00:05:18,601 Speaker 2: can send us a message on Instagram at Helen Gonepod. 81 00:05:19,401 --> 00:06:06,280 Speaker 2: This is Helen Gone Murder Line. Karen Mitchell was born 82 00:06:06,361 --> 00:06:09,841 Speaker 2: on November thirtieth, nineteen eighty. She grew up in Whittier, 83 00:06:10,081 --> 00:06:13,241 Speaker 2: about twenty five miles from Long Beach, California, and stayed 84 00:06:13,281 --> 00:06:17,001 Speaker 2: there through junior high school. Her mom and aunt told 85 00:06:17,161 --> 00:06:20,801 Speaker 2: Dateline that even as a little girl, Karen cared deeply 86 00:06:20,881 --> 00:06:24,841 Speaker 2: about people and causes. She did things like attend peace 87 00:06:24,921 --> 00:06:28,081 Speaker 2: rallies or give money to people in need. Her aunt, 88 00:06:28,161 --> 00:06:31,641 Speaker 2: Annie described her to Dateline as a very smart young woman. 89 00:06:31,721 --> 00:06:33,400 Speaker 3: Who was an old soul. 90 00:06:34,481 --> 00:06:36,841 Speaker 2: And even though Karen had moved Nora to be with 91 00:06:36,881 --> 00:06:40,281 Speaker 2: her aunt and uncle, she maintained a close relationship with 92 00:06:40,321 --> 00:06:44,561 Speaker 2: her mother, Mary and her brother. They spoke regularly. Karen 93 00:06:44,601 --> 00:06:48,161 Speaker 2: came home for summer and for school holidays. In fact, 94 00:06:48,441 --> 00:06:51,721 Speaker 2: Karen had been planning to fly home over Christmas. She 95 00:06:51,761 --> 00:06:55,241 Speaker 2: had already bought the tickets, but the tickets remained unused. 96 00:06:56,801 --> 00:06:59,961 Speaker 2: Police asked Karen's family about their last contact with her. 97 00:07:00,721 --> 00:07:04,121 Speaker 2: Mary told investigators that her last phone conversation was on 98 00:07:04,241 --> 00:07:08,041 Speaker 2: the morning that Karen disappeared. Because even though Karen was 99 00:07:08,041 --> 00:07:11,001 Speaker 2: happy in Eureka and making friends and getting good grades, 100 00:07:11,681 --> 00:07:14,681 Speaker 2: she also seemed to be getting restless. She had told 101 00:07:14,721 --> 00:07:16,921 Speaker 2: her mom she hoped to finish high school in the 102 00:07:16,961 --> 00:07:20,321 Speaker 2: next few months, to graduate early, and then to enroll 103 00:07:20,441 --> 00:07:24,281 Speaker 2: at Humboldt State College. The school now known as California 104 00:07:24,321 --> 00:07:28,601 Speaker 2: State Polytechnic University. So Karen and her mother had spent 105 00:07:28,641 --> 00:07:31,681 Speaker 2: the morning chatting and filling out a college application over 106 00:07:31,721 --> 00:07:35,241 Speaker 2: the phone. Both her mom and her aunt said Karen 107 00:07:35,281 --> 00:07:40,321 Speaker 2: would never disappear voluntarily. Soon police and searchers were scouring 108 00:07:40,321 --> 00:07:44,961 Speaker 2: the area. Karen's missing posters went up everywhere. According to 109 00:07:45,041 --> 00:07:48,601 Speaker 2: the missing person's info posted on the dough project, Karen 110 00:07:48,761 --> 00:07:51,601 Speaker 2: was five feet inches tall, weighing one hundred and thirty pounds. 111 00:07:51,921 --> 00:07:55,001 Speaker 2: She had short, sandy blonde hair that went to her neck, 112 00:07:55,321 --> 00:07:59,281 Speaker 2: and greenish blue eyes. She was last seen wearing a 113 00:07:59,361 --> 00:08:03,481 Speaker 2: long sleeved tan shirt, baggy dark brown corduroy pants, and 114 00:08:03,681 --> 00:08:07,441 Speaker 2: tan leather shoes with buckles. Karen was also wearing some jewelry, 115 00:08:07,761 --> 00:08:11,121 Speaker 2: a silver necklace with crystal, three silver rings, and small 116 00:08:11,161 --> 00:08:15,161 Speaker 2: hoop earrings, and she was carrying a reusable now Jean 117 00:08:15,281 --> 00:08:19,881 Speaker 2: water bottle. Police scoured the area with canines and kidaver 118 00:08:19,961 --> 00:08:24,041 Speaker 2: sniffing dogs. Volunteers in law enforcement searched a lot of terrain. 119 00:08:24,921 --> 00:08:27,801 Speaker 2: They had a big response. A lot of people saw 120 00:08:27,841 --> 00:08:31,121 Speaker 2: those posters and some reached out with tips. A motel 121 00:08:31,201 --> 00:08:33,601 Speaker 2: owner reached out to Mary and said he believed that 122 00:08:33,680 --> 00:08:36,561 Speaker 2: Karen was at his motel, so she rushed there and 123 00:08:36,601 --> 00:08:39,961 Speaker 2: saw young woman. This young woman looked like Karen, but 124 00:08:40,040 --> 00:08:43,600 Speaker 2: it wasn't her. Then a few months after Karen disappeared, 125 00:08:43,841 --> 00:08:47,561 Speaker 2: police got a potential lead. A witness came forward who 126 00:08:47,601 --> 00:08:49,841 Speaker 2: said that he saw a woman whom he believed to 127 00:08:49,841 --> 00:08:53,121 Speaker 2: be Karen on the day she disappeared getting into a vehicle. 128 00:08:54,040 --> 00:08:57,280 Speaker 2: The witness described the vehicle as a light blue fordor 129 00:08:57,481 --> 00:09:01,201 Speaker 2: nineteen seventy six to nineteen seventy eight sedan, possibly a 130 00:09:01,280 --> 00:09:05,601 Speaker 2: Ford Granada, a Mercury Monarch, or a Nissan. The most 131 00:09:05,680 --> 00:09:08,641 Speaker 2: memorable part of the description was actually the license plates. 132 00:09:09,160 --> 00:09:12,721 Speaker 2: According to the witness, the driver had California license plates 133 00:09:12,881 --> 00:09:15,960 Speaker 2: and the word Eureka printed on the rear plate's frame. 134 00:09:17,161 --> 00:09:20,440 Speaker 2: This person, the witness, claimed that they actually almost got 135 00:09:20,481 --> 00:09:23,041 Speaker 2: into a car accident when the man in the mystery 136 00:09:23,081 --> 00:09:26,041 Speaker 2: vehicle turned onto Broadway Street aka the one oh one, 137 00:09:26,401 --> 00:09:29,921 Speaker 2: and nearly hit him. After that, the witness said the 138 00:09:29,961 --> 00:09:32,801 Speaker 2: car stopped and picked up a young woman who matched 139 00:09:32,841 --> 00:09:37,841 Speaker 2: Karen's description, so, presumably because they were probably a little 140 00:09:37,841 --> 00:09:41,961 Speaker 2: bit shaken, the witness remembered the driver well. The witness 141 00:09:41,961 --> 00:09:44,241 Speaker 2: described the driver of the car as a white mail 142 00:09:44,361 --> 00:09:48,321 Speaker 2: approximately sixty to seventy years old, with balding, light gray 143 00:09:48,441 --> 00:09:52,040 Speaker 2: or sandy blonde hair. The witness helped police create a 144 00:09:52,081 --> 00:09:55,601 Speaker 2: composite sketch with even more details, including that the man 145 00:09:55,681 --> 00:09:58,481 Speaker 2: had green or gray eyes and a large sized nose 146 00:09:58,801 --> 00:10:01,961 Speaker 2: that appeared to have been previously broken, and that he 147 00:10:02,001 --> 00:10:05,921 Speaker 2: had a small build and wore eyeglasses. The witness stated 148 00:10:05,961 --> 00:10:08,321 Speaker 2: that the driver of the car was wearing a long sleeve, 149 00:10:08,401 --> 00:10:11,681 Speaker 2: buttoned down light blue shirt. We're going to be posting 150 00:10:11,681 --> 00:10:15,081 Speaker 2: sketches of the car and the driver on Instagram at 151 00:10:15,161 --> 00:10:20,481 Speaker 2: hellen gonpod. Because this case is still technically open, there 152 00:10:20,561 --> 00:10:23,040 Speaker 2: is not a lot of information out there about how 153 00:10:23,121 --> 00:10:26,641 Speaker 2: police chase down this leet, but it was reported on 154 00:10:26,761 --> 00:10:30,241 Speaker 2: Charlie project dot org that police did find a car 155 00:10:30,441 --> 00:10:34,680 Speaker 2: similar to the car reported by the witness. Then, shortly 156 00:10:34,721 --> 00:10:39,441 Speaker 2: after Karen disappeared, they apparently located the driver and gave 157 00:10:39,481 --> 00:10:43,160 Speaker 2: that person a polygraph test. It was reported that that 158 00:10:43,201 --> 00:10:46,961 Speaker 2: person w ultimately cleared of any involvement in Karen's disappearance, 159 00:10:47,801 --> 00:10:52,281 Speaker 2: but again we don't know details. Was this definitely the 160 00:10:52,321 --> 00:10:56,001 Speaker 2: car the witness saw, did the Eureka plates match or 161 00:10:56,081 --> 00:10:58,761 Speaker 2: did police just find a car that resembled the description 162 00:10:58,841 --> 00:11:01,601 Speaker 2: given by the witness and questioned the driver of that car. 163 00:11:02,841 --> 00:11:04,121 Speaker 3: Like a lot of things. 164 00:11:03,841 --> 00:11:06,721 Speaker 2: In this case, because this is still an open investigation, 165 00:11:07,280 --> 00:11:11,041 Speaker 2: we're just not sure. I also have some other questions, 166 00:11:11,081 --> 00:11:16,641 Speaker 2: including how reliable is this witness description, because it hits 167 00:11:16,681 --> 00:11:18,881 Speaker 2: me that the witness must have been very close to 168 00:11:18,921 --> 00:11:22,241 Speaker 2: that other car to see the driver's eye color. Again, 169 00:11:22,481 --> 00:11:24,361 Speaker 2: I wish we had access to the case file so 170 00:11:24,401 --> 00:11:26,761 Speaker 2: that we could see exactly what this person told the 171 00:11:26,801 --> 00:11:31,081 Speaker 2: police in the complete interview, because so much of the 172 00:11:31,121 --> 00:11:35,521 Speaker 2: subsequent investigation appears to be based on this witness description. 173 00:11:36,201 --> 00:11:39,241 Speaker 2: It would be super helpful to find out if police 174 00:11:39,401 --> 00:11:42,241 Speaker 2: were able to be sure that this was Karen the 175 00:11:42,280 --> 00:11:50,281 Speaker 2: witness saw. Karen's disappearance shocked the local community. For the 176 00:11:50,280 --> 00:11:53,001 Speaker 2: most part, the area where Karen vanished as known as 177 00:11:53,041 --> 00:11:56,441 Speaker 2: a pretty safe area, and Karen went missing in the 178 00:11:56,441 --> 00:11:59,641 Speaker 2: middle of the day in a well trafficked area. Plus, 179 00:11:59,641 --> 00:12:02,281 Speaker 2: of course, the irony of all this was a part 180 00:12:02,280 --> 00:12:04,921 Speaker 2: of the reason why Karen moved to Humboldt County in 181 00:12:04,961 --> 00:12:08,521 Speaker 2: the first place was because she and her mom thought 182 00:12:08,521 --> 00:12:10,521 Speaker 2: of it as safer than where she had been living 183 00:12:10,561 --> 00:12:15,960 Speaker 2: in southern California. Karen's mother, Mary, gave the Guardian more background. 184 00:12:16,321 --> 00:12:18,561 Speaker 2: She said she had Karen when she was eighteen years 185 00:12:18,601 --> 00:12:21,440 Speaker 2: old and Karen's brother when she was just sixteen years old. 186 00:12:22,280 --> 00:12:25,081 Speaker 2: Karen's mother was married to their father, but they divorced 187 00:12:25,081 --> 00:12:28,121 Speaker 2: when the kids were young, so Mary raised those two 188 00:12:28,201 --> 00:12:32,041 Speaker 2: children as a single mom for years. She worked multiple 189 00:12:32,121 --> 00:12:36,321 Speaker 2: jobs to support her family. Mary said that her brother 190 00:12:36,401 --> 00:12:38,800 Speaker 2: Bill and his wife Annie were the ones who suggested 191 00:12:38,801 --> 00:12:40,881 Speaker 2: that Karen come and live with them and their three 192 00:12:40,881 --> 00:12:44,241 Speaker 2: sons in Eureka. But, as we said before, or even 193 00:12:44,280 --> 00:12:47,361 Speaker 2: though she seemed to find some peace in Eureka, Karen 194 00:12:47,441 --> 00:12:50,761 Speaker 2: seemed to be getting bored. She started making more concrete 195 00:12:50,801 --> 00:12:55,481 Speaker 2: plans to go to college. Police did consider the possibility 196 00:12:55,641 --> 00:12:58,321 Speaker 2: that Karen could have been a runaway, so just to 197 00:12:58,401 --> 00:13:01,481 Speaker 2: briefly touch on that, on the day she disappeared, she 198 00:13:01,561 --> 00:13:05,321 Speaker 2: was figuring out applications and financial aid. It seemed like 199 00:13:05,401 --> 00:13:08,201 Speaker 2: she was planning for the future, so this made her 200 00:13:08,201 --> 00:13:11,841 Speaker 2: friends and family believe she would not have run away. Also, 201 00:13:12,041 --> 00:13:14,481 Speaker 2: she was very reliable about getting to work on time, 202 00:13:14,521 --> 00:13:17,601 Speaker 2: and she specifically said she was headed there. She didn't 203 00:13:17,641 --> 00:13:20,841 Speaker 2: pack anything to take with her. And also, Karen had 204 00:13:20,881 --> 00:13:24,441 Speaker 2: a bank account. After she disappeared, no one ever tried 205 00:13:24,481 --> 00:13:27,321 Speaker 2: to access that money, and as we said before, she 206 00:13:27,441 --> 00:13:29,680 Speaker 2: never came back home to visit her mother and brother 207 00:13:29,921 --> 00:13:37,201 Speaker 2: with her prepaid airline tickets. Months went by and there 208 00:13:37,280 --> 00:13:41,361 Speaker 2: was zero sign of Karen. Eventually, the searches died down 209 00:13:41,601 --> 00:13:45,641 Speaker 2: and the headline stopped. James went back to southern California 210 00:13:45,841 --> 00:13:49,680 Speaker 2: and they waited. Over the years, Mary has talked to 211 00:13:49,721 --> 00:13:53,161 Speaker 2: the media. She appeared on the Sally Jesse Raphael talk show, 212 00:13:53,721 --> 00:13:56,241 Speaker 2: and she talked regularly with the detective in charge of 213 00:13:56,280 --> 00:13:57,521 Speaker 2: the case, Dave Paris. 214 00:13:59,001 --> 00:14:01,361 Speaker 3: From the interviews that Dave Paris has given. 215 00:14:01,161 --> 00:14:04,281 Speaker 2: About the case, it seems clear that he cared deeply 216 00:14:04,321 --> 00:14:06,681 Speaker 2: about it and it's something that he reflected on a 217 00:14:06,721 --> 00:14:10,401 Speaker 2: lot during his time in law enforcement. Dave Paris told 218 00:14:10,401 --> 00:14:13,121 Speaker 2: the Eureka Time Standard back in twenty twelve that he 219 00:14:13,201 --> 00:14:15,921 Speaker 2: was haunted by the case. He said he'd spent a 220 00:14:15,961 --> 00:14:18,601 Speaker 2: lot of time thinking about what could have happened to 221 00:14:18,641 --> 00:14:24,001 Speaker 2: Karen Parts of Humboldt County are places where it could 222 00:14:24,001 --> 00:14:27,041 Speaker 2: be easy for a person to disappear. It's an area 223 00:14:27,081 --> 00:14:29,681 Speaker 2: that's surrounded by a lot of forests, and there were 224 00:14:29,721 --> 00:14:33,601 Speaker 2: a lot of people growing marijuana in those forests. Giant 225 00:14:33,761 --> 00:14:37,361 Speaker 2: redwood trees block out the view from the road. There 226 00:14:37,401 --> 00:14:40,321 Speaker 2: were also a lot of transients in the area and 227 00:14:40,481 --> 00:14:41,921 Speaker 2: a lot of hitchhikers. 228 00:14:42,841 --> 00:14:44,121 Speaker 3: Karen was added to an. 229 00:14:44,121 --> 00:14:46,801 Speaker 2: Ominous list of young women who had gone missing in 230 00:14:46,881 --> 00:14:50,281 Speaker 2: and around Humboldt County. They were known as the Humbolt Five. 231 00:14:51,321 --> 00:14:55,201 Speaker 2: These young women went missing years apart under different circumstances 232 00:14:55,241 --> 00:14:58,601 Speaker 2: in various parts of the county. There's no evident connection 233 00:14:58,721 --> 00:15:02,321 Speaker 2: between any of the cases. The only commonality is that 234 00:15:02,401 --> 00:15:04,481 Speaker 2: all of them were young women, and none of them 235 00:15:04,601 --> 00:15:08,121 Speaker 2: were ever seen again. There's actually a spot there called 236 00:15:08,201 --> 00:15:12,121 Speaker 2: Alder Point that is nicknamed Murder Mountain. It was originally 237 00:15:12,121 --> 00:15:15,161 Speaker 2: apparently nicknamed that after a serial killing couple hid out 238 00:15:15,161 --> 00:15:18,201 Speaker 2: there in nineteen eighty two, but the name kind of 239 00:15:18,241 --> 00:15:22,641 Speaker 2: stuck around. Netflix actually made a documentary about missing people 240 00:15:22,681 --> 00:15:26,481 Speaker 2: in the area called Murder Mountain, but later questions emerged 241 00:15:26,561 --> 00:15:30,241 Speaker 2: about how accurate these statistics of missing people were. In 242 00:15:30,281 --> 00:15:34,281 Speaker 2: the area because it's been widely reported that. The California 243 00:15:34,321 --> 00:15:37,921 Speaker 2: Department of Justice stated that in twenty twenty four, two 244 00:15:37,961 --> 00:15:40,321 Speaker 2: hundred and forty four children and two hundred and thirty 245 00:15:40,361 --> 00:15:44,161 Speaker 2: eight adults were reported missing from Homboldt County, But the 246 00:15:44,281 --> 00:15:48,281 Speaker 2: Sheriff of Humboldt County made a statement to KRCR news. 247 00:15:48,841 --> 00:15:51,641 Speaker 2: He pointed out that of the two hundred and forty 248 00:15:51,641 --> 00:15:55,201 Speaker 2: four juveniles reported missing, two hundred and forty two of 249 00:15:55,241 --> 00:15:58,921 Speaker 2: them were later found, and out of the two hundred 250 00:15:58,961 --> 00:16:01,921 Speaker 2: and thirty eight adults that were reported missing, two hundred 251 00:16:01,921 --> 00:16:02,761 Speaker 2: and three were found. 252 00:16:02,801 --> 00:16:06,201 Speaker 3: So yes, at first glance, the. 253 00:16:06,161 --> 00:16:08,081 Speaker 2: Sheriff said, there seemed to be a lot of missing 254 00:16:08,081 --> 00:16:10,921 Speaker 2: people in Humboldt County, but you have to look at 255 00:16:10,961 --> 00:16:13,601 Speaker 2: the other side of the equation. Most of those people 256 00:16:13,761 --> 00:16:22,281 Speaker 2: are eventually found. Unfortunately, Karen Mitchell was not one of them. 257 00:16:22,601 --> 00:16:25,561 Speaker 2: Over the years, there were some suspects and people of 258 00:16:25,601 --> 00:16:30,521 Speaker 2: interest who popped up, including two very high profile serial killers. 259 00:16:31,281 --> 00:16:34,241 Speaker 2: One of them was a man named Wayne adam Ford. 260 00:16:45,881 --> 00:16:49,081 Speaker 2: At around six thirty pm on November third, nineteen ninety eight, 261 00:16:49,481 --> 00:16:52,321 Speaker 2: thirty six year old Wayne adam Ford walked into the 262 00:16:52,401 --> 00:16:56,521 Speaker 2: Humboldt County Sheriff's office with his brother. He told police 263 00:16:56,761 --> 00:17:00,121 Speaker 2: he wanted to confess to murder. Then he held out 264 00:17:00,161 --> 00:17:03,401 Speaker 2: a piece of female breast that was sealed inside a 265 00:17:03,441 --> 00:17:07,961 Speaker 2: plastic bag that he had in his jacket pocket. Wayne 266 00:17:08,120 --> 00:17:11,241 Speaker 2: adam Ford had a connection to the area. He had 267 00:17:11,241 --> 00:17:14,921 Speaker 2: lived in Trinidad, a town about thirty minutes outside of Eureka. 268 00:17:15,600 --> 00:17:17,761 Speaker 2: He was recently divorced at the time and had a 269 00:17:17,761 --> 00:17:21,241 Speaker 2: two year old son. He lived a fairly isolated life. 270 00:17:21,561 --> 00:17:25,761 Speaker 2: His wife and son were living in Las Vegas. Wayne 271 00:17:25,840 --> 00:17:28,481 Speaker 2: was a long haul trucker, which he claimed gave him 272 00:17:28,521 --> 00:17:32,801 Speaker 2: access to his female victims. Women came forward and described 273 00:17:32,840 --> 00:17:35,600 Speaker 2: being attacked by a man who matched Wayne's description, and 274 00:17:35,681 --> 00:17:36,481 Speaker 2: he drove a truck. 275 00:17:37,241 --> 00:17:39,881 Speaker 3: Police explored the possibility. 276 00:17:39,241 --> 00:17:41,840 Speaker 2: That he may have been involved in other crimes, including 277 00:17:42,001 --> 00:17:46,681 Speaker 2: other murders. Carlton Smith, author of a book called Shadows 278 00:17:46,681 --> 00:17:49,481 Speaker 2: of Evil, pointed out in the book that this was 279 00:17:49,521 --> 00:17:53,161 Speaker 2: an interesting case because behavioral analysts at the FBI training 280 00:17:53,161 --> 00:17:57,281 Speaker 2: facility at Quantico at the time believed serial killers tend 281 00:17:57,281 --> 00:18:00,241 Speaker 2: to escalate over time. In other words, their murders get 282 00:18:00,281 --> 00:18:04,160 Speaker 2: worse and more brutal. But Wayne's trajectory seemed to be 283 00:18:04,201 --> 00:18:09,681 Speaker 2: the opposite. Wayne eventually confessed to murdering four people, including 284 00:18:09,761 --> 00:18:13,400 Speaker 2: a young woman, Jane Doe. Her torso was found floating 285 00:18:13,441 --> 00:18:17,361 Speaker 2: in Humboldt County near Eureka. Her case was known as 286 00:18:17,401 --> 00:18:21,561 Speaker 2: the Torso Case. In twenty twenty three, Jane Doe was 287 00:18:21,641 --> 00:18:25,640 Speaker 2: finally identified as twenty five year old carry Ann Cummings. 288 00:18:25,881 --> 00:18:28,881 Speaker 2: Wayne was eventually convicted of killing carry Anne and three 289 00:18:28,881 --> 00:18:32,841 Speaker 2: other victims. Twenty six year old Tina Renee Gibbs, who 290 00:18:32,921 --> 00:18:35,721 Speaker 2: was killed in Las Vegas on May sixteenth, nineteen ninety eight, 291 00:18:35,961 --> 00:18:39,761 Speaker 2: and her body dumped in Kern County, California. Twenty five 292 00:18:39,840 --> 00:18:43,081 Speaker 2: year old Lynette White, who was murdered on September twenty fifth, 293 00:18:43,161 --> 00:18:47,521 Speaker 2: nineteen nine, and Ontario, California. Her body was dumped in 294 00:18:47,561 --> 00:18:51,641 Speaker 2: an irrigation canal near Lodi, California. The final victim was 295 00:18:51,721 --> 00:18:56,281 Speaker 2: twenty nine year old Patricia Times. She was murdered in Hissperia, California, 296 00:18:56,321 --> 00:18:59,281 Speaker 2: in October of nineteen ninety eight. Her body was dumped 297 00:18:59,281 --> 00:19:03,360 Speaker 2: in an aqueduct in San Bernardino County. Wayne claimed that 298 00:19:03,401 --> 00:19:06,761 Speaker 2: he picked up three of his victims as hitchhikers, but 299 00:19:07,161 --> 00:19:09,361 Speaker 2: police said there were parts of his story that didn't 300 00:19:09,401 --> 00:19:13,201 Speaker 2: really make sense. They said three of Wayne's victims were 301 00:19:13,241 --> 00:19:17,080 Speaker 2: known sex workers. Because of that, they believe Wain was 302 00:19:17,161 --> 00:19:19,801 Speaker 2: lying about the real reason why they initially got into 303 00:19:19,840 --> 00:19:23,441 Speaker 2: his vehicle, but he was telling the truth. 304 00:19:23,201 --> 00:19:24,881 Speaker 3: About where the bodies were located. 305 00:19:25,601 --> 00:19:28,321 Speaker 2: Waine was also unusual, and then he randomly showed up 306 00:19:28,361 --> 00:19:31,001 Speaker 2: to confess to his crimes, and he seemed to have 307 00:19:31,121 --> 00:19:34,241 Speaker 2: a genuine desire to stop rather than trying to just 308 00:19:34,281 --> 00:19:38,441 Speaker 2: taunt the police. Police have stated Wayne killed his first 309 00:19:38,521 --> 00:19:42,121 Speaker 2: victim about a month before Karen disappeared, but other than 310 00:19:42,201 --> 00:19:44,681 Speaker 2: proximity to Karen, there wasn't much to. 311 00:19:44,641 --> 00:19:45,801 Speaker 3: Go on evidence wise. 312 00:19:46,401 --> 00:19:49,921 Speaker 2: Neither the vehicle nor the description of the driver matched 313 00:19:50,001 --> 00:19:53,601 Speaker 2: Wayne Ford's appearance. It was reported in nineteen ninety nine 314 00:19:54,080 --> 00:19:57,600 Speaker 2: in the Los Angeles Times that police were waiting on 315 00:19:57,721 --> 00:20:00,401 Speaker 2: DNA tests to see if Wayne could be linked to 316 00:20:00,481 --> 00:20:05,761 Speaker 2: Karen's case, but after that nothing further was reported and 317 00:20:05,840 --> 00:20:09,160 Speaker 2: police did not move forward with pursuing a case against Wayne. 318 00:20:10,041 --> 00:20:13,201 Speaker 2: Wayne was operating in the same area as where Karen 319 00:20:13,241 --> 00:20:16,281 Speaker 2: went missing, but he drove a truck, not the car 320 00:20:16,361 --> 00:20:19,600 Speaker 2: the witness described, and the link between him and Karen 321 00:20:19,801 --> 00:20:23,400 Speaker 2: was never established. Not to mention the fact that Wayne 322 00:20:23,401 --> 00:20:27,281 Speaker 2: confessed to his kills but he never mentioned Karen. Of course, 323 00:20:27,521 --> 00:20:32,120 Speaker 2: serial killers and killers in general, can lie, especially when 324 00:20:32,161 --> 00:20:36,121 Speaker 2: they have something to gain. In Mary and James's twenty 325 00:20:36,161 --> 00:20:39,721 Speaker 2: fifteen interview with the Guardian, the writer asked Mary Casper 326 00:20:39,761 --> 00:20:43,080 Speaker 2: about the Wayne Ford rumors. Mary told the Guardian the 327 00:20:43,121 --> 00:20:46,960 Speaker 2: detective Ferris told her Wayne Ford was given a lie 328 00:20:47,001 --> 00:20:50,001 Speaker 2: detector test and that he was specifically questioned about Karen, 329 00:20:50,601 --> 00:20:53,600 Speaker 2: that Wayne had denied having anything to do with her disappearance, 330 00:20:53,601 --> 00:20:57,361 Speaker 2: and that apparently he passed that test. Mary also told 331 00:20:57,401 --> 00:20:59,481 Speaker 2: the newspapers she went a step further. She said in 332 00:20:59,521 --> 00:21:03,160 Speaker 2: two thousand she personally went to see Wayne Ford in prison. 333 00:21:03,801 --> 00:21:06,681 Speaker 2: Mary said she asked him point blank if he killed Karen. 334 00:21:07,241 --> 00:21:11,881 Speaker 2: She also showed Wayne pictures of her daughter. Mary claimed 335 00:21:11,921 --> 00:21:14,481 Speaker 2: that Wayne told her that quote she looks like she 336 00:21:14,561 --> 00:21:15,521 Speaker 2: could be one of mine. 337 00:21:15,801 --> 00:21:17,001 Speaker 3: End quote. 338 00:21:17,161 --> 00:21:19,600 Speaker 2: But Mary said Wayne was asking her to write to 339 00:21:19,681 --> 00:21:22,641 Speaker 2: him in prison and offering to give her information little 340 00:21:22,641 --> 00:21:24,201 Speaker 2: by little, so she said no. 341 00:21:25,241 --> 00:21:26,241 Speaker 3: For what it's worth. 342 00:21:26,441 --> 00:21:29,400 Speaker 2: I think that Mary refusing to write to Wayne was 343 00:21:29,481 --> 00:21:32,481 Speaker 2: the right call. This is just my opinion, but I 344 00:21:32,561 --> 00:21:35,721 Speaker 2: see way too many instances of killers in prison who 345 00:21:35,840 --> 00:21:38,561 Speaker 2: seemed to get a kick out of streaming along journalists 346 00:21:38,561 --> 00:21:41,921 Speaker 2: and family members other people who write to them. In 347 00:21:41,961 --> 00:21:44,120 Speaker 2: the end, most of them just end up wasting a 348 00:21:44,121 --> 00:21:48,201 Speaker 2: lot of time and for those closest to the victim, causing. 349 00:21:47,921 --> 00:21:49,641 Speaker 3: Even more heartache. 350 00:21:49,761 --> 00:21:52,840 Speaker 2: But it does show how much Mary loved her daughter 351 00:21:53,201 --> 00:21:55,160 Speaker 2: and how she was willing to go to any links 352 00:21:55,201 --> 00:21:57,201 Speaker 2: to try to get answers about what happened to her. 353 00:21:58,321 --> 00:22:00,881 Speaker 2: Karen's case made headlines again in two thousand and two. 354 00:22:01,401 --> 00:22:04,321 Speaker 2: It was reported in the Sioux City Journal that police 355 00:22:04,321 --> 00:22:07,881 Speaker 2: in California were looking at similarities between Karen's case and 356 00:22:08,080 --> 00:22:10,841 Speaker 2: the cases of two young women who were murdered in Oregon. 357 00:22:12,121 --> 00:22:14,841 Speaker 2: In January of two thousand and two, twelve year old 358 00:22:14,881 --> 00:22:17,721 Speaker 2: Ashley Pond disappeared on her way to the bus stop 359 00:22:17,721 --> 00:22:21,321 Speaker 2: in Oregon City. Then two months later, a classmate of hers, 360 00:22:21,601 --> 00:22:26,121 Speaker 2: thirteen year old Miranda Gaddis, also disappeared in the same neighborhood, 361 00:22:26,241 --> 00:22:29,880 Speaker 2: also near a bus stop. The two girls' bodies were 362 00:22:29,921 --> 00:22:33,201 Speaker 2: eventually found at a property rented by thirty nine year 363 00:22:33,241 --> 00:22:37,201 Speaker 2: old Ward Weaver the Third. Ward Weaver the Third lived 364 00:22:37,281 --> 00:22:40,481 Speaker 2: near the area where both girls disappeared. One of the 365 00:22:40,521 --> 00:22:43,561 Speaker 2: girl's bodies was found in a shed. The other body 366 00:22:43,601 --> 00:22:48,001 Speaker 2: was found buried under a concrete slab. Police found the 367 00:22:48,041 --> 00:22:51,041 Speaker 2: bodies when they were investigating Ward Weaver for the rape 368 00:22:51,080 --> 00:22:55,241 Speaker 2: of his son's girlfriend. In two thousand and four, Ward 369 00:22:55,241 --> 00:22:58,160 Speaker 2: Weaver was sentenced to life without the possibility of parole 370 00:22:58,441 --> 00:23:02,321 Speaker 2: for the sexual assault and murders of Miranda and Ashley. 371 00:23:03,201 --> 00:23:06,521 Speaker 2: Even though those murders happened in Oregon, it was reported 372 00:23:06,561 --> 00:23:09,201 Speaker 2: that Ward Weaver grew up in Eureka, the same town 373 00:23:09,241 --> 00:23:13,201 Speaker 2: where Karen was living at the time of her disappearance. Randomly, 374 00:23:13,441 --> 00:23:17,801 Speaker 2: Ward Weaver the Third's father, Ward Weaver Junior, is also 375 00:23:18,080 --> 00:23:22,160 Speaker 2: a convicted serial killer. Ward Weaver Junior was arrested and 376 00:23:22,201 --> 00:23:24,640 Speaker 2: convicted of the murders of a young couple in nineteen 377 00:23:24,681 --> 00:23:28,681 Speaker 2: eighty one and dumping their bodies under concrete in his backyard. 378 00:23:29,721 --> 00:23:32,441 Speaker 2: At the time Karen went missing, it was reported that 379 00:23:32,481 --> 00:23:35,921 Speaker 2: Ward Junior, the father was in prison. Other than Ward 380 00:23:35,921 --> 00:23:39,120 Speaker 2: the Third's proximity to Karen Mitchell's hometown. At some point, 381 00:23:39,761 --> 00:23:43,681 Speaker 2: police apparently determined there was no connection between Ward Weaver 382 00:23:44,001 --> 00:23:50,161 Speaker 2: and Karen Mitchell, but in twenty fifteen, another very infamous 383 00:23:50,281 --> 00:23:53,401 Speaker 2: name came up as being potentially connected to Karen's case. 384 00:23:54,281 --> 00:24:04,921 Speaker 2: Multi millionaire real estate scion turned serial killer Robert Durst. 385 00:24:09,881 --> 00:24:12,361 Speaker 2: Robert Durst, of course, was a member of the Durst 386 00:24:12,401 --> 00:24:16,721 Speaker 2: family of Manhattan real estate magnets. His family was worth 387 00:24:16,721 --> 00:24:20,600 Speaker 2: an estimated eight billion dollars and founded the Durst Organization, 388 00:24:21,241 --> 00:24:23,721 Speaker 2: which eventually went on to own, manage, and build and 389 00:24:23,881 --> 00:24:29,281 Speaker 2: estimated thirteen million square feet in Manhattan office towers. Robert Durst, 390 00:24:29,321 --> 00:24:32,481 Speaker 2: of course, became a household name early in twenty fifteen 391 00:24:32,881 --> 00:24:36,801 Speaker 2: after being the subject of the HBO documentary series The James. 392 00:24:37,401 --> 00:24:39,880 Speaker 2: I won't go through all the details of this case. 393 00:24:40,281 --> 00:24:42,920 Speaker 2: This story is a much too long and bizarre to 394 00:24:42,921 --> 00:24:46,561 Speaker 2: cover completely here, but just to briefly recap, Robert Durst 395 00:24:46,601 --> 00:24:49,241 Speaker 2: was suspected of several murders when the documentary aired in 396 00:24:49,241 --> 00:24:52,921 Speaker 2: twenty fifteen, including the killing of his neighbor Morris Black 397 00:24:52,921 --> 00:24:55,441 Speaker 2: in Texas in two thousand and one, the murder of 398 00:24:55,481 --> 00:24:58,241 Speaker 2: his friend Susan Berman in Los Angeles in two thousand 399 00:24:58,561 --> 00:25:00,840 Speaker 2: and the murder of his wife, Kathleen, who went missing 400 00:25:00,881 --> 00:25:05,201 Speaker 2: in nineteen eighty two under very suspicious circumstances. Kathleen was 401 00:25:05,241 --> 00:25:07,521 Speaker 2: twenty nine years old and in medical school when she 402 00:25:07,641 --> 00:25:10,841 Speaker 2: vanished without a trace on January thirty first, nineteen eighty two. 403 00:25:11,641 --> 00:25:14,401 Speaker 2: She and Robert had been living in Westchester County, New York. 404 00:25:14,881 --> 00:25:17,281 Speaker 2: He told police they had an argument and she left 405 00:25:17,281 --> 00:25:19,120 Speaker 2: their home and he had no idea where she was, 406 00:25:19,881 --> 00:25:23,321 Speaker 2: but Robert waited five days to report her missing, and 407 00:25:23,521 --> 00:25:27,400 Speaker 2: their marriage had been volladle. Kathleen's family said Robert was 408 00:25:27,441 --> 00:25:31,600 Speaker 2: controlling and had rage issues, so from the beginning, Kathleen's 409 00:25:31,601 --> 00:25:34,121 Speaker 2: family always suspected that Robert killed Kathleen. 410 00:25:34,881 --> 00:25:37,281 Speaker 3: After Kathleen disappeared, Robert did too. 411 00:25:37,921 --> 00:25:40,640 Speaker 2: For a long time, he kind of disappeared off the grid. 412 00:25:41,001 --> 00:25:44,561 Speaker 2: Family and friends had no idea where he was. Then, 413 00:25:44,761 --> 00:25:47,761 Speaker 2: on September thirtieth, two thousand and one, the body of 414 00:25:47,840 --> 00:25:50,921 Speaker 2: Robert's neighbor and friend, seventy one year old Morris Black, 415 00:25:51,561 --> 00:25:55,640 Speaker 2: washed up in Galveston Bay, Texas. Morris Black had been dismembered. 416 00:25:56,161 --> 00:25:59,401 Speaker 2: Police quickly focused on Robert Durst because at the time 417 00:25:59,441 --> 00:26:02,001 Speaker 2: he was living in the same apartment complex as Morris Black. 418 00:26:02,881 --> 00:26:06,321 Speaker 2: Robert Durst admitted he did dismember Morris's body and get 419 00:26:06,401 --> 00:26:09,481 Speaker 2: rid of it, but he denied murdering him. He claimed 420 00:26:09,601 --> 00:26:12,200 Speaker 2: Morris had attacked him, and that he fatally shot Morris 421 00:26:12,201 --> 00:26:16,120 Speaker 2: in self defense before dumping his body. In two thousand 422 00:26:16,121 --> 00:26:19,241 Speaker 2: and three, Robert Durst was acquitted of Morris Black's murder 423 00:26:19,241 --> 00:26:22,600 Speaker 2: in Texas, he ended up pleading guilty to tampering with 424 00:26:22,641 --> 00:26:25,600 Speaker 2: evidence relating to him cutting up Morris Black's body and 425 00:26:25,601 --> 00:26:29,080 Speaker 2: disposing of it rather than calling law enforcement. Then, in 426 00:26:29,121 --> 00:26:33,001 Speaker 2: twenty fifteen, Robert Durst was arrested in New Orleans, Louisiana 427 00:26:33,041 --> 00:26:36,001 Speaker 2: on weapons charges. He was charged with the murder of 428 00:26:36,001 --> 00:26:39,241 Speaker 2: his friend Susan Berman in Los Angeles, and then in 429 00:26:39,281 --> 00:26:42,920 Speaker 2: twenty twenty one, following the massive global publicity that was 430 00:26:42,961 --> 00:26:45,521 Speaker 2: brought to the case by the show The Jinks and 431 00:26:45,641 --> 00:26:49,481 Speaker 2: a long drawn out trial in La Robert Durst was 432 00:26:49,521 --> 00:26:51,080 Speaker 2: eventually convicted. 433 00:26:50,761 --> 00:26:52,041 Speaker 3: Of murdering Susan Burman. 434 00:26:52,961 --> 00:26:56,721 Speaker 2: Robert Durst got life without the possibility of parole. He 435 00:26:56,801 --> 00:27:00,321 Speaker 2: was sent to prison. Then in October of twenty twenty one, 436 00:27:00,481 --> 00:27:04,161 Speaker 2: he was finally charged with Kathleen's murder, but that trial 437 00:27:04,281 --> 00:27:07,880 Speaker 2: never happen because in January of twenty twenty two, Robert 438 00:27:07,961 --> 00:27:10,601 Speaker 2: Durst died in prison at the age of seventy eight. 439 00:27:12,361 --> 00:27:15,400 Speaker 2: So there are a lot of questions that police can't 440 00:27:15,441 --> 00:27:18,361 Speaker 2: ask Robert Durst about his past. There were a lot 441 00:27:18,401 --> 00:27:22,200 Speaker 2: of years after Kathleen went missing and before Morris Black's 442 00:27:22,201 --> 00:27:25,481 Speaker 2: body washed up. When Robert Durst flew under the radar, 443 00:27:26,041 --> 00:27:28,680 Speaker 2: he cut off contact with pretty much his entire family. 444 00:27:29,121 --> 00:27:30,761 Speaker 3: He lived under various. 445 00:27:30,401 --> 00:27:34,721 Speaker 2: Aliases, paying cash, sometimes living or presenting as a woman 446 00:27:34,840 --> 00:27:37,041 Speaker 2: in different cities around the country. 447 00:27:37,401 --> 00:27:39,241 Speaker 3: But we do know where. 448 00:27:39,001 --> 00:27:41,001 Speaker 2: He was for at least some of that time, and 449 00:27:41,080 --> 00:27:44,360 Speaker 2: as it turns out, during the time when went missing, 450 00:27:45,080 --> 00:27:48,321 Speaker 2: Robert Durst was living in the small town of Trinidad, 451 00:27:48,921 --> 00:27:51,521 Speaker 2: about twenty two miles or less than half an hour's 452 00:27:51,601 --> 00:27:54,041 Speaker 2: drive from where Karen Mitchell lived with her aunt and uncle. 453 00:27:55,080 --> 00:27:58,041 Speaker 2: Robert had bought himself a modest three story house near 454 00:27:58,080 --> 00:28:02,921 Speaker 2: the coast. In March of twenty fifteen, after the last 455 00:28:02,961 --> 00:28:05,681 Speaker 2: episode of The Jinks Aard and after Robert Durst was 456 00:28:05,761 --> 00:28:10,641 Speaker 2: arrested in New Orleans, several law enforcement agencies apparently were 457 00:28:10,641 --> 00:28:13,561 Speaker 2: trying to review his address history. They wanted to figure 458 00:28:13,561 --> 00:28:17,481 Speaker 2: out if he could be responsible for more crimes. FBI 459 00:28:17,561 --> 00:28:20,881 Speaker 2: Director James Comey announced that he was ordering. 460 00:28:20,721 --> 00:28:22,961 Speaker 3: Every FBI bureau in the United. 461 00:28:22,721 --> 00:28:25,961 Speaker 2: States to review cold cases he wanted to find out 462 00:28:26,001 --> 00:28:29,521 Speaker 2: where Robert Durst was over all those years, and according 463 00:28:29,601 --> 00:28:33,001 Speaker 2: to multiple media reports, the FBI did appear to be 464 00:28:33,080 --> 00:28:37,721 Speaker 2: covering all bases and taking the Humboldt County potential connection seriously. 465 00:28:39,001 --> 00:28:42,601 Speaker 2: Police in Eureka announced they wanted to speak to Robert 466 00:28:42,641 --> 00:28:46,401 Speaker 2: Durst about Karen mad though the Guardian article noted nothing 467 00:28:46,481 --> 00:28:49,721 Speaker 2: was ever confirmed. We have to take a lot of 468 00:28:49,761 --> 00:28:52,521 Speaker 2: these theories with a grain of salt when you try 469 00:28:52,601 --> 00:28:55,441 Speaker 2: to trace them back to their source. A lot of 470 00:28:55,481 --> 00:28:57,481 Speaker 2: these theories seemed to have been circulated at the time 471 00:28:57,521 --> 00:28:58,721 Speaker 2: by a journalist named. 472 00:28:58,521 --> 00:28:59,241 Speaker 3: Matt burt Beck. 473 00:28:59,841 --> 00:29:02,521 Speaker 2: He wrote a book about Robert Durst called A Deadly Secret. 474 00:29:03,081 --> 00:29:06,401 Speaker 2: He stated in that book that he believed Robert Durst 475 00:29:06,441 --> 00:29:10,121 Speaker 2: could be responsible for Karen's murder because he has claimed 476 00:29:10,121 --> 00:29:12,801 Speaker 2: on his website there are credit card records that put 477 00:29:12,921 --> 00:29:17,001 Speaker 2: Robert Durst in Eureka on the day Karen disappeared. Matt 478 00:29:17,041 --> 00:29:20,881 Speaker 2: also claims Robert Durst resembles the composite sketch, the one 479 00:29:20,921 --> 00:29:23,361 Speaker 2: that police made of the man with glasses and a 480 00:29:23,361 --> 00:29:26,161 Speaker 2: broken nose who was driving the vehicle that the witness 481 00:29:26,161 --> 00:29:29,481 Speaker 2: said they believe they saw Karen getting into. The New 482 00:29:29,561 --> 00:29:33,441 Speaker 2: York Daily News also reported Robert Durst apparently visited the 483 00:29:33,481 --> 00:29:36,561 Speaker 2: shoe store where Karen's aunt Annie worked at least four times. 484 00:29:37,201 --> 00:29:39,601 Speaker 2: At this time, he was dressing in women's clothing and 485 00:29:39,641 --> 00:29:43,481 Speaker 2: presenting as female. Matt burt Beck told the Daily News 486 00:29:44,001 --> 00:29:46,761 Speaker 2: Robert Durst had also been seen at a homeless shelter, 487 00:29:47,401 --> 00:29:52,081 Speaker 2: one where he claimed that Karen volunteered. Robert Durst was 488 00:29:52,161 --> 00:29:55,521 Speaker 2: never charged in connection with Karen Mitchell's case, and though 489 00:29:55,561 --> 00:29:58,001 Speaker 2: the case file is still open and can't be accessed 490 00:29:58,001 --> 00:30:00,841 Speaker 2: through FOYA, we have no way of knowing if police 491 00:30:00,921 --> 00:30:03,521 Speaker 2: ever even talk to him about Karen's disappearance in the 492 00:30:03,601 --> 00:30:06,881 Speaker 2: years between twenty fifteen and twenty twenty one, when he. 493 00:30:06,841 --> 00:30:07,481 Speaker 3: Died in prison. 494 00:30:08,561 --> 00:30:12,401 Speaker 2: I will say Robert Durst, when he presents as a man, 495 00:30:13,121 --> 00:30:15,961 Speaker 2: does appear to resemble the composite sketch of the stranger 496 00:30:16,121 --> 00:30:18,281 Speaker 2: who was supposedly the driver of the car. 497 00:30:18,161 --> 00:30:19,721 Speaker 3: Karen was seen getting into. 498 00:30:20,161 --> 00:30:24,441 Speaker 2: Robert Durst also had connections with the area. 499 00:30:23,401 --> 00:30:26,201 Speaker 3: But a lot of other people resemble that composite sketch. 500 00:30:26,241 --> 00:30:29,841 Speaker 2: It's very general and even if Robert Durst was in 501 00:30:29,921 --> 00:30:32,081 Speaker 2: Humbolt County at the same time as Karen Mitchell. 502 00:30:32,481 --> 00:30:33,481 Speaker 3: I'm still skeptical. 503 00:30:34,281 --> 00:30:38,361 Speaker 2: It's definitely possible that Robert Durst committed other crimes, maybe 504 00:30:38,361 --> 00:30:40,881 Speaker 2: even other killings, while flying under the radar for all 505 00:30:40,881 --> 00:30:45,241 Speaker 2: those years. For example, in two thousand and fifty, police 506 00:30:45,281 --> 00:30:47,801 Speaker 2: announced they were looking at Robert Durst as a possible 507 00:30:47,841 --> 00:30:50,201 Speaker 2: suspect in the disappearance of an eighteen year old named 508 00:30:50,241 --> 00:30:53,801 Speaker 2: Lynn Schultz. Lynn Schultz went missing in Middlebury, Vermont, on 509 00:30:53,841 --> 00:30:58,361 Speaker 2: December tenth, nineteen seventy one. Police figured out Robert Durst 510 00:30:58,361 --> 00:31:00,841 Speaker 2: and his wife, Kathleen were living in the area at 511 00:31:00,841 --> 00:31:03,681 Speaker 2: the time. Kathleen owned a health food store called All 512 00:31:03,721 --> 00:31:06,761 Speaker 2: Good Things, and the last place that Lynn was seen 513 00:31:06,961 --> 00:31:11,601 Speaker 2: was eating dates or prunes outside of that health food store. Also, 514 00:31:11,801 --> 00:31:14,561 Speaker 2: Lynn had been telling friends she was considering starting a 515 00:31:14,601 --> 00:31:17,641 Speaker 2: new life somewhere else. She told at least one friend 516 00:31:17,721 --> 00:31:19,961 Speaker 2: on the last day she was seen alive, she was 517 00:31:20,001 --> 00:31:22,561 Speaker 2: planning on buying a bus ticket to New York, which is, 518 00:31:22,561 --> 00:31:26,121 Speaker 2: of course where Robert's family lived. Again, we don't know 519 00:31:26,201 --> 00:31:29,361 Speaker 2: for sure what investigating police have done on all these leads, 520 00:31:29,961 --> 00:31:32,801 Speaker 2: but at least on the surface, it does not seem 521 00:31:32,841 --> 00:31:36,441 Speaker 2: as though Karen Mitchell's disappearance would have fit Robert Dursimo. 522 00:31:37,721 --> 00:31:41,641 Speaker 2: Robert killed his wife Kathleen following domestic violence. Kathleen was 523 00:31:41,681 --> 00:31:44,601 Speaker 2: threatening to leave it. He killed Susan Burman because she 524 00:31:44,681 --> 00:31:47,960 Speaker 2: had information about Kathleen's disappearance, and she may have been 525 00:31:47,961 --> 00:31:51,801 Speaker 2: blackmailing Robert. And whether or not you believe Robert's story 526 00:31:51,841 --> 00:31:54,681 Speaker 2: about self defense or not. And again, Robert was acquitted 527 00:31:54,681 --> 00:31:58,841 Speaker 2: of killing Morris Black. Morris was his neighbor and witnesses 528 00:31:58,921 --> 00:32:03,721 Speaker 2: said Morris was very confrontational. So Robert's killings, at least 529 00:32:03,721 --> 00:32:06,161 Speaker 2: the ones that we know about, all appeared to have 530 00:32:06,161 --> 00:32:10,241 Speaker 2: been motivated by some kind of personal conflict. But there's 531 00:32:10,321 --> 00:32:13,481 Speaker 2: no suggestion that, other than Robert possibly going to her 532 00:32:13,521 --> 00:32:16,041 Speaker 2: aunt's shoe shop, there was any kind of a personal 533 00:32:16,041 --> 00:32:20,961 Speaker 2: connection between Robert Durst and Karen Mitchell. Also, it's been 534 00:32:21,001 --> 00:32:23,921 Speaker 2: reported that Robert presented as a woman and wore women's 535 00:32:23,961 --> 00:32:26,681 Speaker 2: clothing when he came into her aunt's shop, But the 536 00:32:26,801 --> 00:32:29,361 Speaker 2: driver of the car that Karen Mitchell got into was 537 00:32:29,361 --> 00:32:35,481 Speaker 2: described as a man. So what happens next in Karen 538 00:32:35,521 --> 00:32:39,801 Speaker 2: Mitchell's investigation. In twenty fifteen, the family stated they were 539 00:32:39,801 --> 00:32:43,361 Speaker 2: still in communication with the Eureka police Department and the FBI. 540 00:32:44,121 --> 00:32:48,321 Speaker 2: This is still an open investigation. Mary Casper told The 541 00:32:48,321 --> 00:32:51,001 Speaker 2: Guardian that for a long time, part of her was 542 00:32:51,041 --> 00:32:54,641 Speaker 2: still hoping Karen was out there somewhere alive. That she 543 00:32:54,761 --> 00:32:57,561 Speaker 2: caught herself holding onto that hope at times, but at 544 00:32:57,601 --> 00:33:00,681 Speaker 2: the same time she desperately wanted closure. She wanted to 545 00:33:00,681 --> 00:33:03,841 Speaker 2: know what happened to her daughter, and she wants justice, 546 00:33:04,281 --> 00:33:07,001 Speaker 2: even if the truth about what happened to Karen ends 547 00:33:07,081 --> 00:33:11,281 Speaker 2: up being horrifying. She told The Guardian, quote, we can't 548 00:33:11,281 --> 00:33:15,841 Speaker 2: have both. We can't have closure without details end quote. 549 00:33:16,681 --> 00:33:20,281 Speaker 2: Police have asked anyone with any information about Karen Mitchell 550 00:33:20,681 --> 00:33:24,481 Speaker 2: contact the Eureka Police Department at seven oh seven four 551 00:33:24,561 --> 00:33:29,561 Speaker 2: four one four three zero zero. I'm Catherine Townsend. This 552 00:33:29,761 --> 00:33:33,601 Speaker 2: is Helen Gone Murder Line. Helen Gone Murder Line is 553 00:33:33,641 --> 00:33:36,881 Speaker 2: a production of School of Humans and iHeart Podcasts. It's 554 00:33:36,921 --> 00:33:40,041 Speaker 2: written and narrated by me Catherine Townsend and produced by 555 00:33:40,081 --> 00:33:44,561 Speaker 2: Etilye's Perez Special thanks to Amy Tubbs for her research assistance. 556 00:33:45,121 --> 00:33:48,481 Speaker 2: Noah Camera mixed and scored this episode. Our theme song 557 00:33:48,561 --> 00:33:53,401 Speaker 2: is by Ben Sale. Executive producers are Virginia Prescott, Brandon Barr, 558 00:33:53,401 --> 00:33:54,481 Speaker 2: and LC Crowley. 559 00:33:55,521 --> 00:33:56,601 Speaker 3: Listen to Helen. 560 00:33:56,281 --> 00:33:59,201 Speaker 2: Gone ad free by subscribing to the iHeart True Crime 561 00:33:59,241 --> 00:34:02,761 Speaker 2: Plus channel on Apple Podcasts. If you were interested in 562 00:34:02,801 --> 00:34:05,961 Speaker 2: seeing documents and materials from the case, you can follow 563 00:34:06,001 --> 00:34:10,040 Speaker 2: the show on Instagram at Helen Gonepod. If you have 564 00:34:10,121 --> 00:34:12,161 Speaker 2: a case you'd like me and my team to look into, 565 00:34:12,601 --> 00:34:14,480 Speaker 2: you can reach out to us at our Helen Gone 566 00:34:14,520 --> 00:34:17,841 Speaker 2: Murder line at six seven eight seven four four six 567 00:34:18,000 --> 00:34:21,320 Speaker 2: one four five. That's six seven eight seven four four 568 00:34:21,560 --> 00:34:22,760 Speaker 2: six one four five. 569 00:34:30,361 --> 00:34:31,601 Speaker 1: School of Humans