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Speaker 1: Ben Higgins and Ashley I bring you Infamous.

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Speaker 2: Sometimes roses are red flags. This is part two of

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Speaker 2: our conversation with Sydney on Infamous, Because sometimes roses are

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Speaker 2: red flags. I think the redeeming moments typically from the

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Speaker 2: show with characters like yourself, I don't think i'd put

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Speaker 2: you in a villain category. I think you had villainous moments,

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Speaker 2: maybe just towards one person. And I think I was

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Speaker 2: a statement I made when we were watching the show.

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Speaker 2: I think the Maria thing felt odd and off and

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Speaker 2: not nice. A lot of times.

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Speaker 3: It looks like I crushed on her. I think it

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Speaker 3: looks like I was in love with her.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that's cool too, Well, that's fine, that would be

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Speaker 2: a great storyline on the show, and just trying to

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Speaker 2: make those storylines before. I think the redeeming moment that

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Speaker 2: we need to hear from you, if there is one,

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Speaker 2: and if there's not, then that's fine, and you just

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Speaker 2: continue on with what you're doing. You look back on

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Speaker 2: this experience you've you've lived in your learned what have

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Speaker 2: you taken from it now personally for you as a

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Speaker 2: human outside of the show.

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Speaker 3: I mean, obviously it's taken a lot of time, and

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Speaker 3: the experience was so intense, but I feel like I've

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Speaker 3: just had I was like forced to do so much

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Speaker 3: inner work and like reflecting and like setting boundaries and

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Speaker 3: just figuring out like who I want to be as

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Speaker 3: a person and like who like how I want to

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Speaker 3: treat other people. Yeah, and I'm just like I think

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Speaker 3: that I was. I also was so frustrated, like I

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Speaker 3: found like myself to be like just having all this pain,

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Speaker 3: and now like looking back on it, I can like

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Speaker 3: really look at other people's persuh, like how they see things,

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Speaker 3: like especially like Maria, and just like look at it

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Speaker 3: from clarity and peace and just feel like, you know,

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Speaker 3: we're all just humans living on this earth. Like and

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Speaker 3: I don't know's that's kind of where I'm out with it.

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Speaker 2: I mean, I know after the show is really hard,

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Speaker 2: and that is never a desire of any especially Ashley myself,

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Speaker 2: maybe some other people out there. The hope is that

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Speaker 2: this doesn't continue on forever. But the hope is that

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Speaker 2: you do learn something from this experience, no matter if

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Speaker 2: you have a good experience, a bad experience, or somewhere

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Speaker 2: in between, that you walk off of this somewhat new

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Speaker 2: and you've been able to reflect and watch yourself on

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Speaker 2: national television for a few weeks and then go, you

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Speaker 2: know what, I like that about myself or Hey, that

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Speaker 2: felt like it wasn't a good decision that I made

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Speaker 2: at the time, and I need to kind of do

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Speaker 2: some introspection to figure out where that decision was coming

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Speaker 2: from in my life. It sounds like you have, you know,

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Speaker 2: done a lot of introspection since the show, and you've

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Speaker 2: done a lot of thinking about this experience. So how

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Speaker 2: does it make you feel now as you look back

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Speaker 2: knowing this was your time on the show and knowing

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Speaker 2: that this could have gone a lot differently but it didn't.

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Speaker 2: How does it make you feel now being the person

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Speaker 2: that you are?

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Speaker 3: So again, I do think that I wish I handled

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Speaker 3: a lot of things differently.

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Speaker 4: I wish that I came from a little bit more

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Speaker 4: understanding instead of like thinking that there was malicious intent

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Speaker 4: behind her, And I wish that.

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Speaker 3: It was never about the drama. But I if I

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Speaker 3: was to do it again, to be honest, I probably

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Speaker 3: would stem from the same, like being a good friend

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Speaker 3: and sticking up for a friend, like because that's how

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Speaker 3: I saw how it was playing out. I do think

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Speaker 3: that you know, I wouldn't, you know, call Maria bitch

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Speaker 3: and all those things. But like, yeah, I think if

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Speaker 3: I was to do it all again, I would just

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Speaker 3: try to completely avoid the drama altogether. I think that

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Speaker 3: the where all stand was so stupid, like it didn't

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Speaker 3: even really matter, so I probably wouldn't even addressed it. Honestly.

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Speaker 2: It's a great segue into this clip that I want

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Speaker 2: to play now, Ashley go fine. Maria was just recently

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Speaker 2: on Jia Judae's podcast, Let's play this clip and kind

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Speaker 2: of hear what you think after.

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Speaker 5: Listening, you either loved me or hated me. It was

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Speaker 5: there was no in between. Yeah, but so I love

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Speaker 5: to hear that now. It was very obvious, even from

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Speaker 5: a viewer standpoint though, to see that you were being attacked. Well,

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Speaker 5: I mean, and it's so crazy. Actually, I was getting

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Speaker 5: coffee today and a girl came up to me and

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Speaker 5: she was like, kid, be honest, was it real? Like

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Speaker 5: did it like Housewives?

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Speaker 3: You know what I mean?

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Speaker 5: And I'm like, you know, what's so funny. It's like,

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Speaker 5: as a viewer of the show, sometimes I'm like, there's

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Speaker 5: just no way these fights are so dumb. There's no

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Speaker 5: there's something's like off until I went on the show,

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Speaker 5: and then I realized, oh my god, there are just

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Speaker 5: people out there that you know. But here's the thing

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Speaker 5: about Sydney, I like appreciate her now, like looking back,

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Speaker 5: I can really because we needed that. That like made

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Speaker 5: the show in ways.

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Speaker 3: It kind of made the season iconic.

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Speaker 2: That's what I mean.

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Speaker 5: I needed, Like, I mean, I wasn't gonna start drawing,

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Speaker 5: but I was okay to like it happen and yeah.

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Speaker 1: So what's your take on that?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, so I've heard that old Sydney would be like,

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Speaker 3: all right, well that's a backhanded compliment, but like, knowing

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Speaker 3: who she is, that that is her complimenting me now,

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Speaker 3: like because she does like me now and I understand

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Speaker 3: where she's coming from. I I never wanted to go

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Speaker 3: into that experience trying to start drama, though I can

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Speaker 3: see how that. I can see how in like that environment,

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Speaker 3: emotions run high, things unfold and there's it's not it's

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Speaker 3: not fully of like what we expected. I mean, I

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Speaker 3: was reacting in real time, trying to advocate for myself

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Speaker 3: and process everything as it happened. Looking back, I recognized

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Speaker 3: that there were moments where I could have handled things differently,

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Speaker 3: and that's things like I was saying, like I reflected.

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Speaker 6: On a lot but said, like I hear this, and

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Speaker 6: I'm like, come on, girl. In the words of Latia,

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Speaker 6: come on now, come on, now, come on, because she

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Speaker 6: said I wasn't going to start drama, but it happened.

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Speaker 6: Like I just think that Maria's personality, it could be

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Speaker 6: like I could have hang would like to hang out

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Speaker 6: with her. Truly, she seems fun, but she also seems

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Speaker 6: like someone who's probably prone to some drama being around her.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, like again, like it's just goes back

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Speaker 3: to like how we communicate so differently. Like I would

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Speaker 3: hear that and like old Sydney would be offended and

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Speaker 3: be like that's a bat candid compliment, you know, But

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Speaker 3: like now I'm just like, you know, I've had to

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Speaker 3: just set that free, you know, just like it is

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Speaker 3: it's just who she is, and like, yeah, it's like,

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Speaker 3: you know, this is my year of growth, you know.

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Speaker 3: It's just like I just have to let like she's

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Speaker 3: just Maria's Maria and like I don't think she meant

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Speaker 3: any harm behind it.

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Speaker 2: Sydney, You're winning. This is what I wanted you to

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Speaker 2: do during this show. This is exactly what I wanted

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Speaker 2: you to come up with when you're being filmed for

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Speaker 2: these weeks, is to at some point say, hey, I

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Speaker 2: don't see the world the way she does. She doesn't

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Speaker 2: see the world the way I do, and as a result,

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Speaker 2: I'm just not entering into it. I am going to

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Speaker 2: stay back and let this stuff play out. So you're

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Speaker 2: doing it now, I'm just luty. You didn't do it, then, no.

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Speaker 1: Just what is in your face? You can't stop yourself.

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Speaker 3: I'm to be honest with you. There were so many

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Speaker 3: moments I did. There were so many moments I believe

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Speaker 3: it just didn't fit into character that I was supposed

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Speaker 3: to be.

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Speaker 6: One of the most annoying things that I received in

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Speaker 6: a very very small amount that you received in a

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Speaker 6: very large amount, was people would say.

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Speaker 1: Your friend's me is a liar, like she is a liar.

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Speaker 6: First off, people aren't crazy because they say it like fact,

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Speaker 6: as if what they see on TV is true fact,

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Speaker 6: there's no other context, and they truly know the person

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Speaker 6: through and through right. But the liar thing was very

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Speaker 6: annoying to me and to you because because I truly

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Speaker 6: still don't think you were lying.

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Speaker 3: No, And that's that was what honestly hurt me the

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Speaker 3: most was to people, Yeah, call me a liar, and like,

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Speaker 3: I'm just gonna say this, like, there was not a

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Speaker 3: single thing that I lied about. I did not lie

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Speaker 3: about a single thing, whether it was I saw it

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Speaker 3: for myself or it was told by me by production,

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Speaker 3: there is not a thing that I lied about. And

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Speaker 3: I think people need to know that just because you

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Speaker 3: didn't see something doesn't mean it didn't happen. Like we

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Speaker 3: were filmed from the second we wake up to the

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Speaker 3: second we go to bed, and like, it's not going

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Speaker 3: to fit into one episode. So and it also doesn't

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Speaker 3: pen to the storyline too, but so it's yeah, but

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Speaker 3: being called a liar, I was like, yeah, that al

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Speaker 3: was got hurt.

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Speaker 2: It's a big comment, Sydney for this, you know, as

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Speaker 2: we process the changing of the guard for the Bachelor

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Speaker 2: franchise and a new team of producers and editors and

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Speaker 2: video and camera coming in and the old one is

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Speaker 2: coming out, the ones that you were most familiar with,

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Speaker 2: and we kind of break down these stories of the

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Speaker 2: behind the scenes to try to make sense of It's

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Speaker 2: a big comment and it's a true comment. Now I

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Speaker 2: don't know your specific situation. I don't I wasn't there,

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Speaker 2: but for you to say you didn't lie about anything

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Speaker 2: and that everything was either said to you by somebody else,

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Speaker 2: or you saw it for yourself or a producer said

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Speaker 2: it to you. Yeah, is bringing to light a lot

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Speaker 2: of the things that maybe allow this drama to unfold

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Speaker 2: and allows you know, this chaos to happen and for

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Speaker 2: people to hear things and then stand up and say things.

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Speaker 2: I think, Sidney, as we have processed this whole conversation

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Speaker 2: and you saying, hey, you're proud that you stood up.

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Speaker 2: You know, in your life, you still want to be

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Speaker 2: the friend to stand up, you know for your friends.

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Speaker 2: That's a great friend. I want that kind of friend.

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Speaker 2: I think most people do. I also think for you

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Speaker 2: to admit that they got you, that you were naive,

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Speaker 2: and that they they that you didn't stop it, that

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Speaker 2: you let it keep going, and that it's not editing.

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Speaker 3: The Pigros.

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Speaker 2: You could have said no, and you could have said

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Speaker 2: that's not what I'm going to do.

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Speaker 3: Ben.

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Speaker 1: Ben really loves to do this.

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Speaker 6: Ben is you know, he's a prince character and you

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Speaker 6: and I are by nature going we can't hold everything back.

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Speaker 1: Many Yeah, I couldn't do it.

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Speaker 6: It wouldn't be being true to myself if I held

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Speaker 6: it back.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm a very I'm an mpath like I just

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Speaker 3: it's just who I am.

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Speaker 2: I admit not everybody sees it like I do, and

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Speaker 2: that's fine.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I.

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Speaker 2: Don't blame you. I'm just saying I wish your story

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Speaker 2: would have been different. And so that's where my question

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Speaker 2: comes here, Sidney, as we close up with you, your story

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Speaker 2: should have been, could have been different. That's not the

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Speaker 2: person that you want to be in your daily life.

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Speaker 2: And Maria doesn't haunt your dreams. I'm not I'm assuming here.

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Speaker 2: I'm guessing she's not on your mind all the time.

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Speaker 2: I'm guessing you have moved on from this. For anybody listening,

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Speaker 2: is there anything else that you'd want people to know

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Speaker 2: that we haven't asked you or touched on that would

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Speaker 2: help make not this situation come to light and turn

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Speaker 2: the table on Maria. We haven't done that. What we've

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Speaker 2: done is highlight the mistakes made and some of the

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Speaker 2: reasons why it looked the way it looked. Is there

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Speaker 2: anything else that you'd want somebody to know? That we

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Speaker 2: haven't asked you.

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Speaker 3: Like, you know, I think that it's not so black

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Speaker 3: and white. I don't think that like moving forward, that

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Speaker 3: there ever is a real true villain. I think that,

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Speaker 3: I know. I mean, like Maria' is like, oh what

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Speaker 3: you see is like what the drama was like, not

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Speaker 3: how I perceived everything. Like my truth is so different.

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Speaker 3: So everybody's truth in reality to the situation is different.

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Speaker 3: And that's just life. So it's just like that on

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Speaker 3: the show. And I mean I had to just work

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Speaker 3: on this entire year being okay with the world not knowing,

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Speaker 3: so like I do. I feel like there is so

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Speaker 3: much I could go on and on and on and

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Speaker 3: on about like like production and this and that, and

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Speaker 3: I just don't think that there really is a need

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Speaker 3: for it. I mean I will say this, I will

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Speaker 3: say one thing that that sometimes I mean when I

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Speaker 3: like have like people come to my store and they'll

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Speaker 3: like ask for a photo and stuff, and they'll be like, wait,

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Speaker 3: you're actually so nice, like and I'm just like, well,

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Speaker 3: I mean it's just the power of I know, we

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Speaker 3: hate it editing, but I would say this, like, uh,

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Speaker 3: there was a group date and I got up and

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Speaker 3: it looks like I walked away alone. But let's just

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Speaker 3: say I wasn't the case.

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Speaker 2: What do you mean tell us everyone followed me.

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Speaker 3: Out because they were all on the same page as me,

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Speaker 3: kind of thing. I think.

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Speaker 6: I had moments, I had moments where I can relate

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Speaker 6: to this completely. Like I just wish that I could

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Speaker 6: have told everyone and be like, you don't understand, like

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Speaker 6: there was a reason why there was nobody else talking

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Speaker 6: because everybody was agreeing with me.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, I mean there were so many times where

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Speaker 3: it wasn't even just me. But I mean, at the

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Speaker 3: same time, it's just like I've done so much work

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Speaker 3: being okay with that, like just being okay with me myself,

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Speaker 3: knowing my truth in my reality of it, you know,

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Speaker 3: and like also I have I have, you know, like

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Speaker 3: I did make mistakes and I take full accountability for,

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Speaker 3: you know, things I've said on the show that I did,

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Speaker 3: I don't mean, but it definitely was the result of

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Speaker 3: things that no one ever saw.

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Speaker 2: This was supposed to be the closing question, but I

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Speaker 2: guess you brought up a question now from your response.

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Speaker 2: If what I think you were saying was there was

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Speaker 2: a group date that you got up and walked away

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Speaker 2: from and the show made it seem like you walked alone.

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Speaker 2: But what you're saying is that everybody walked with you

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Speaker 2: because they were fed up with the situation at hand.

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Speaker 2: So my question off of that is, then if that

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Speaker 2: was true, how come no other cast members have said

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Speaker 2: that or stood up for you in that moment after

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Speaker 2: it looked so differently?

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Speaker 3: Well, I mean, we're all tied to the NDA, and

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Speaker 3: there was a lot of people unfortunately that you know,

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Speaker 3: switched up would come women tell all, which was like

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Speaker 3: super shocking and unfortunate, But at the same time, it's

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Speaker 3: just like that's what they just they didn't want to

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Speaker 3: have to dive into it, you know, like they weren't involved,

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Speaker 3: and I don't expect them to, you know, put themselves

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Speaker 3: in hole that they weren't even in. And it was

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Speaker 3: kind of just like the way that it looked at

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Speaker 3: the end of the day was me and Maria and

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Speaker 3: they were off the hook, and I honestly they they

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Speaker 3: took the smart route by not getting involved at the

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Speaker 3: end of the day, Like does it suck, Yeah, it

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Speaker 3: does suck. You know, people feeling like I felt like

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Speaker 3: pretty alone after it when it's just like there were

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Speaker 3: so many people that like had my back and and

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Speaker 3: stuck up for me during the season even though we

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Speaker 3: didn't see it. But yeah, I just I mean, it's unfortunate,

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Speaker 3: but at the same time, like, I don't blame.

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Speaker 6: Them for not You know what's interesting is that they

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Speaker 6: didn't let you do any interviews at all since the show.

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Speaker 6: You haven't been able to speak on any platform until now,

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Speaker 6: which you know, the contract lasts a year from like

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Speaker 6: your last appearance date.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, why do you think that is?

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Speaker 3: Because I just think that it well also too, you're

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Speaker 3: technically not allowed to talk about what didn't air, and

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Speaker 3: then that's really all that I had, like to back

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Speaker 3: me up. But at the same time, I just don't

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Speaker 3: think that I was meant to be liked. I was not,

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Speaker 3: Like my perspective was not meant to be shared. It

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Speaker 3: just doesn't didn't fit the mold of like the character

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Speaker 3: that I was supposed to be. I don't know what

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Speaker 3: do you think about that, Ash?

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Speaker 6: I think it's interesting because they pretty much let everybody

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Speaker 6: talk these days on a podcast, especially their own Warner

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Speaker 6: Brother one. But it always seems like somebody turns up

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Speaker 6: on a really big podcast after that as well, and

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Speaker 6: you were just never on the docket to be able

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Speaker 6: to be talked to, and when we would inquire, even

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Speaker 6: months after you were on the show, they still wouldn't

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Speaker 6: let you.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I know. But to be honest, like, I don't

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Speaker 3: even think it would have done me any good because

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Speaker 3: I was still upset and like confused and yeah, in sight,

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Speaker 3: but maybe, I mean maybe it would have given people

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Speaker 3: a little bit better of an understanding of like who

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Speaker 3: I am at the slightest.

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Speaker 6: But I agree with you, I agree with you. I

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Speaker 6: think it probably would have been bad. I think you

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Speaker 6: probably would have been too defensive and it just wasn't

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Speaker 6: the time for that. Now, did you look forward to

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Speaker 6: possibly having an opportunity in Bachelor and Paradise to kind

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Speaker 6: of clear your name?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, No, definitely I was looking forward to that. I

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Speaker 3: was like, this could be a great opportunity for people

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Speaker 3: to finally get to know me. And I feel like

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Speaker 3: I feel and I'm ready, like I'm so ready to

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Speaker 3: find my person. I like I've been ready even went

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Speaker 3: on the show, like genuinely looking for that.

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Speaker 1: That's not going to happen.

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Speaker 2: It looks like, well, it's a mistake you not going

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Speaker 2: on Paradise.

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Speaker 3: No, I'm not not her mistake.

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Speaker 2: That's a big mistake.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it's unfortunate, but like I said, everything happens for

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Speaker 3: a reason. Yeah, and uh yeah, I don't know. It

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Speaker 3: might be good. I've might just be opening wounds again

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Speaker 3: as well. Yeah, but yeah, it's just really unfortunate about

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Speaker 3: like just not getting that opportunity and then hearing who

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Speaker 3: is going on and then you know, I just feel

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Speaker 3: like I, I don't know, deserved a second chance.

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Speaker 2: We all deserved second chances. Sidney and I hate I think.

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Speaker 2: I think the perfect person for Paradise is somebody and

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Speaker 2: this isn't what I wish on anybody. I think one

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Speaker 2: of the many perfect people to go on Paradise is

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Speaker 2: somebody that says they went on the show, they did

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Speaker 2: their best. The show knows what they did to them.

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Speaker 3: Now.

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Speaker 2: I don't know if this new Bachelor and Paradise crew

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Speaker 2: has any idea of what your experience was actually like

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Speaker 2: on the show. I think there's very few, and I

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Speaker 2: don't think many of those people still work on the

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Speaker 2: show anymore. But anybody comes off of it and said

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Speaker 2: the show made them feel alone is somebody that I said,

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Speaker 2: I say as a fan of viewer, a former contestant.

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Speaker 2: Paradise is the place for you, and it is a

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Speaker 2: mistake that you aren't going because if this show made

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Speaker 2: you feel alone, the show has a lot of issues,

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Speaker 2: but one of the things the show has always done,

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Speaker 2: at least in the few last few years, it's allowed

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Speaker 2: the redemption story to happen in Paradise, which always becomes

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Speaker 2: a very beautiful moment for you and for us fans.

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Speaker 2: So it is a mistake that they haven't had you there.

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Speaker 2: And I will say that it's something that is unfortunate

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Speaker 2: that you will not be on the beaches to get

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Speaker 2: your redemption story that no matter what you deserve, because

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Speaker 2: this was not great for you. The show did not

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Speaker 2: like help you find love or really you know, increase

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Speaker 2: your self talk or make you feel any better. And

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Speaker 2: that's why I want you in Paradise.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I think about it too, And I also I mean,

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Speaker 3: there are people that there are a like few people

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Speaker 3: that can you continue on to Paradise that know my situation,

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Speaker 3: and one of them that I'm that I've been speaking to.

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Speaker 3: But I'll be honest too, I think like I wasn't

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Speaker 3: very proactively wanting to go on also because I wassident,

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Speaker 3: because I was so hurt and upset and kind of

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Speaker 3: like like, how could you know they do some of

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Speaker 3: the things that they do to me? But but yeah,

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Speaker 3: I just think that's like, that's I just had so

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Speaker 3: much growth and I was like, I don't know if

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Speaker 3: I even want to risk that again, you know.

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Speaker 2: Sydney, thank you for coming on the show with us.

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Speaker 2: Thank you for sharing your side. Thank you for being

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Speaker 2: so nervous to talk to me. Goodness, am so scary.

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Speaker 2: It makes me feel good about myself. I'm going to

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Speaker 2: tell my wife that somebody was scary. I thought I

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Speaker 2: was scary. She'll laugh. Sidney, thank you for sharing your side.

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Speaker 2: We hope, I mean, I know Ashley is going to

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Speaker 2: keep close with you, but I just I hope the

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Speaker 2: best for you. I hope the lessons learned help your life,

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Speaker 2: and I hope the moments of growth continue for all

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Speaker 2: of us here. So thanks for listening to Infamous. Sidney,

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Speaker 2: thank you for being a part of it.

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Speaker 1: Thanks Sydney, and I've Been Ben, I've been Ashley.

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Speaker 2: Bye.

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Speaker 1: Follow the Ben and Ashley I Almost Famous podcast on

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Speaker 1: iHeartRadio or subscribe wherever you listen to podcasts,