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Speaker 1: Now here's a highlight from coast to coast AM on iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 1: How did you get involved in cosmology curiosity? I think

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Speaker 1: from a very very early age. If you've asked my mum,

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Speaker 1: My biggest question was why why? Why? So I actually,

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Speaker 1: at the age of four, had what I've called ever

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Speaker 1: since from multidimensional experiences, so you know, telepasy, precognition, etc.

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Speaker 1: Out of body experiences. So I was already experiencing the

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Speaker 1: world and reality much much bigger than the physical universe.

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Speaker 1: So that sort of got me interested and piqued my

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Speaker 1: curiosity to experience walking between world and at the same

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Speaker 1: time I was really curious as to how this sort

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Speaker 1: of greater sense of reality, how it made, how it

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Speaker 1: created what we call the physical world. And a couseologist

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Speaker 1: is usually someone who researches that our universe, But for me,

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Speaker 1: it's somebody's curious about the nature reality on every level

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Speaker 1: and as big a picture as we can possibly explore.

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Speaker 1: They just released a story yesterday that they found another

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Speaker 1: exo planet one hundred and ten light years away from

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Speaker 1: Earth with water. They're convinced it's close enough to its

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Speaker 1: star wars, you know, warm like Earth. Who knows could

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Speaker 1: be everywhere. I feel that. And you know, I remember

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Speaker 1: when I was doing my physics degree at Oxford all

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Speaker 1: those years ago, there's some notion of exoplanets that could

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Speaker 1: harbor biological life. Was completely poopooed. And yet at the

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Speaker 1: same time people at fred Hoyle were saying, well, actually,

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Speaker 1: you know, biological life could have been seeded from space

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Speaker 1: onto Earth, and that again was poopooed. And the more

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Speaker 1: we actually do learn, the more we realize that the

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Speaker 1: universe is incredibly set up to exist, you know, to exist,

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Speaker 1: to evolve and to evolve into biological life. And so

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Speaker 1: you know, the water, the water that's within us, half

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Speaker 1: of it was an analysis a couple of years ago.

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Speaker 1: Half of the water within us and on Earth is

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Speaker 1: older than the sun. My gosh, is that amazing? Remarkable?

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Speaker 1: Truly remarkable. And you you're one of the leading voices

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Speaker 1: tying science and spirituality together. Where do you stand there

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Speaker 1: in the middle? Ye? Smart, smart place to be? Well

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Speaker 1: for me there you know, science is a methodology of

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Speaker 1: exploring how reality is made up, and spirituality is a

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Speaker 1: quest for why, for meaning. So for me, the hound

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Speaker 1: a why I always danced together? And so you know,

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Speaker 1: my spiritual quest for meaning and understanding has always gone

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Speaker 1: alongside the science. I just feel that, unfortunately for me,

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Speaker 1: true science is about following the evidence wherever it leads.

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Speaker 1: And I think that a lot of science has sort

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Speaker 1: of got caught in a couldys sack of a so

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Speaker 1: materialistic and reductionist worldview, which now actually has been turned

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Speaker 1: on its head because the evidence is coming forward that

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Speaker 1: that you know, that the sense of a sony materialistic

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Speaker 1: world of separation and somehow accidental evolutionary processes have caused

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Speaker 1: consciousness to arise and it's all accidental. And here now

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Speaker 1: we are is literally being turned on its head. And

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Speaker 1: that's where this convergence of science and spirituality is coming

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Speaker 1: ever closer together. Yeah, it is remarkable. And you know,

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Speaker 1: prior to writing The Cosmic Cologram, which we're talking about tonight,

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Speaker 1: you've got a number of other books out there, but

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Speaker 1: they kind of deal with spirituality, don't they They do,

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Speaker 1: and they deal with perhaps on a personal level, but

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Speaker 1: also on a collective level. The sense that I've had

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Speaker 1: for many, many years that we are at a very

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Speaker 1: very special point in you know, the stories of us

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Speaker 1: and the story of a universe which has an innate

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Speaker 1: evolutionary impulse. And it seems to me that because our

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Speaker 1: perspectives in the last few hundred years have got you know, fragmented,

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Speaker 1: we sort of disenchanted ourselves from from a universe, a

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Speaker 1: living universe, and our belieft have our behaviors. So our

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Speaker 1: fragmented perspectives have driven our dysfunctional behaviors. But my sense

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Speaker 1: is that this is a time of remembering who we

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Speaker 1: really are. So some of those books deal with that

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Speaker 1: remembering and what it might mean for us. You know,

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Speaker 1: at this incredible pivotal moment of our story, the story

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Speaker 1: of the universe, do you believe in Guard? You'd I

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Speaker 1: don't believe. Rather that Young actually young and his deathbed

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Speaker 1: was asked Carl Jung, the great psychiatrist, which do you

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Speaker 1: believe in God? And he said no, he said, I

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Speaker 1: know God. It's rather more an experience of wholeness and oneness.

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Speaker 1: Whatever name it goes by, whether it's God or Aller

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Speaker 1: or great Mystery or cosmic mind, it's for me, it's

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Speaker 1: this experienced sense of ultimate wholeness and a reality that's

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Speaker 1: ultimately unified and yet differentiated. So rather than a sort

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Speaker 1: of religious aspect of it, it's more a sort of

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Speaker 1: a conscious experiential perspective that you know, mind unconsciousness aren't

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Speaker 1: something we have, but literally what we in the whole

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Speaker 1: world are, and that I can go by the name

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Speaker 1: of God or any other name that people feel comfortable with.

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Speaker 1: There's no question that you know, when we think about it,

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Speaker 1: how we got here, what our existence is in the universe.

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Speaker 1: It's perplexing, and nobody really knows. Nobody has the answer.

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Speaker 1: I still every time I interview a physicist, I try

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Speaker 1: to get their definition of the Big Bang, and I

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Speaker 1: still can't get that. I can't grasp how something started

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Speaker 1: from nothing. There's got to be something out there that

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Speaker 1: we just don't understand well completely agree, and I think

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Speaker 1: any of our understanding is always a work in progress.

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Speaker 1: I think what's coming clearers though, is, first of all,

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Speaker 1: the Big Bang wasn't big, and it wasn't a bang.

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Speaker 1: It was time, as we know. It was minute, but

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Speaker 1: it was finite minute. It wasn't an infinite singularity. We

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Speaker 1: now understand from the best cosmology we have or work

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Speaker 1: in progress, that it began in a finite way. It's

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Speaker 1: something called a plank scale, and it wasn't a bang.

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Speaker 1: Because I mean if I asked you what does a

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Speaker 1: bang mean to you? To me, it's like an explosion, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: with all the chaos that that you know based on,

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Speaker 1: And it wasn't it was exquisite. It was you know,

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Speaker 1: our universe. The laws of physics and principles of physics

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Speaker 1: are so fine tuned, and from that first moment of

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Speaker 1: space and time, our universe was set up in such

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Speaker 1: an amazingly incredibly ordered way. It literally exists to evolved.

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Speaker 1: This is innate evolutionary impulse from simplicity to complexes. So

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Speaker 1: instead of big bang, I'm defining restating this process, continuing

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Speaker 1: process as more of a big breath, and that ties

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Speaker 1: much more into ancient understanding of a meaningful universe of

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Speaker 1: which we are. It's microcosmic evolutionary partners. And now we're

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Speaker 1: talking about my you know multiverses. Truly remarkable, it is,

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Speaker 1: and you know, Moltiverse says that there's sort of the

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Speaker 1: main multiverse hypothesis was really set up to in my perspective,

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Speaker 1: to avoid that the question of consciousness and to still

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Speaker 1: see our universe as somehow a random event, whereas I

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Speaker 1: would propose that all the evidence is showing rather that

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Speaker 1: our universe is a great and finite thought in the

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Speaker 1: infinite and eternal mind of the cosmos, and therefore the

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Speaker 1: almost certainly many other thoughts, some which might last a moment,

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Speaker 1: some which might last thirteen point eight billion years as

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Speaker 1: ours has so far, but nonetheless, finite thought forms in

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Speaker 1: the mind of the cosmos. And that's something that Asine

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Speaker 1: Heinstein would be very comfortable with. And also the pioneers,

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Speaker 1: many of the pioneers of constant physics, such as Max Planck,

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Speaker 1: another great hero of mine, would be very comfortable with. Yes,

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Speaker 1: where would doctor Jude KERRV and PhD. We're talking about

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Speaker 1: her latest work, the Cosmic Cologram, which we'll get into.

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Speaker 1: You're the co founder of the whole World dash view

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Speaker 1: dot org. Tell us about that. Yes, I am accidentally

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Speaker 1: really well. I thought I was writing a book. It

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Speaker 1: turned out I was co founding a movement. It is amazing.

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Speaker 1: What basically happened, George, is that There's Cosmic Hologram came

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Speaker 1: out in spring of twenty seventeen, and through a whole

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Speaker 1: wondrous synchronicity, we launched it at the United Nations in

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Speaker 1: New York, and then a couple of months later we

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Speaker 1: had the British launch at the House of Lords in London,

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Speaker 1: and we invited both in New York and then in

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Speaker 1: London ninety changemakers. Because what I felt about writing the

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Speaker 1: book is its aim is to help provide the evidence

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Speaker 1: that I hope will help to heal our fragmented perspectives

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Speaker 1: about the nature reality and therefore help to heal our behaviors.

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Speaker 1: So instead of coming from the perception of materialistic separation,

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Speaker 1: we can sort of turn round and come from a

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Speaker 1: sense of a deeper, unifying reality which is radically diversified

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Speaker 1: in its expression. So these changemakers came along and they said, well,

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Speaker 1: what are we going to do? And I said, well,

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Speaker 1: maybe we can come together to cofound whole worldview as

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Speaker 1: this sense of wholeness and the evidence for it, but

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Speaker 1: crucially not just understanding it, but then how do we

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Speaker 1: experience the embody such unity awareness in the world, and

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Speaker 1: how can we serve our collective humanity to help understand

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Speaker 1: this more integrated sense of reality and port transformational change

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Speaker 1: in the world. So from a standing start, then two

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Speaker 1: years ago we're out to over eight hundred global changemakers,

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Speaker 1: each of whom have their own network community organization, and

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Speaker 1: Progressive is trying to scale up and speed up this

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Speaker 1: message of wholeness. That's amazing. It's truly remarkable how this

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Speaker 1: all functions. I'm amazed at the universe, Jude, how orderly

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Speaker 1: it is, and how everything seems to work and fit.

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Speaker 1: It's bizarre. It is amazing, isn't it. It's truly incredible.

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Speaker 1: And it was set up like that from the get go.

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Speaker 1: You know, as I mentioned earlier, you know, Lee Smolin

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Speaker 1: of the Perimeter Institute in Ontario a while ago looked

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Speaker 1: at all the sort of constants of nature and worked

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Speaker 1: out that if those constants and their interrelationships was out

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Speaker 1: by more than one part in a thousand trillion trillion,

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Speaker 1: our universe could not exist and evolve. Well it does,

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Speaker 1: and it does, and it really has this incredible set up.

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Speaker 1: So it began as it's, you know, it's greatest simplicity

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Speaker 1: and its greatest level of of of sort of order.

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Speaker 1: But instead of evolving from order to disorder, it literally

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Speaker 1: evolves from simplicity to complexity and ever greater individuated awareness,

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Speaker 1: which is why you and I can be having this

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Speaker 1: conversation and while we're finding exoplanets now thousands of them

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Speaker 1: in the sort of closeness of our galaxy alone. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that shows that this increasing evolving complexity is universal. Life

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Speaker 1: will find a way, our universe will find a way

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Speaker 1: to express itself, and it's and it's evolving intelligence. So

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Speaker 1: I'm going to ask you if you're a believer that

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Speaker 1: there is intelligent life in the universe. I'm not going

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Speaker 1: to even ask you if you think it's been here,

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Speaker 1: if it's visited here. But you know, we talk a

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Speaker 1: lot about that in this program. But do you think

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Speaker 1: in the vastness of space with billions of planets, what

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Speaker 1: do you think? Absolutely emphatic yes, And you know, one

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Speaker 1: reason is just to actually look at the evidence. Before

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Speaker 1: our solar system was formed, if you go back thirteen

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Speaker 1: point eight billion years, okay, over the first three hundred

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Speaker 1: eighty thousand years or so, our universe wasn't even transparent

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Speaker 1: to light. It was like foggy. It was so hot

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Speaker 1: that ordered nonetheless, and throughout it, sound ways were pulsing,

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Speaker 1: and those sound ways were shepherding tiny clusterings which became

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Speaker 1: the first stars. And those stars, those first generation of stars,

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Speaker 1: well a rock stars. They lived hard and died young.

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Speaker 1: But what they did in doing so was they that

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Speaker 1: they're fuel to make them shine. Went from the simplest

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Speaker 1: of elements, which is hydrogen, through two heavier and heavier elements,

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Speaker 1: and when they finally died because there were some masses,

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Speaker 1: they exploded supernova and they seeded. They started to seed

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Speaker 1: the interstellar medium with these elements. Fast forward another billions

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Speaker 1: of years and possibly one or two more generations of stars,

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Speaker 1: and you have an interstellar medium within our galaxy and

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Speaker 1: almost certainly within other galaxies and many, many, many other galaxies,

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Speaker 1: which is the harbinger of life, of biological life. You

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Speaker 1: have ice, you have water, you have dust and gas,

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Speaker 1: all of and you have pre biotic molecules. You have

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Speaker 1: these earliest complex organic molecules. So they're like these interstellar

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Speaker 1: dust clouds, and like they are, they're bursting clouds. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and it just doesn't happen. It just doesn't happen by chance.

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Speaker 1: There's no way, no way, absolutely no way. And when

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Speaker 1: you look at the evidence at all scales and numerous

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Speaker 1: fields of research, time and time and time again, you

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Speaker 1: see the same patterns. You see this exquisite into relationships,

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Speaker 1: and you see a profound impulse to evolve. And as

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Speaker 1: you said earlier, you know, we're finding exoplanets now in

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Speaker 1: the Goldilocks zone, not too hot, not too cold. We're

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Speaker 1: finding them with water, and even in our own Solar system,

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Speaker 1: we're finding not just on Earth, but you know, the

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Speaker 1: moons of Jupiter and Satin look as though they have

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Speaker 1: salt water oceans beneath the crust of ice, and that

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Speaker 1: may not be able to support complex biology, but it

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Speaker 1: looks more and more as though there will be some

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Speaker 1: biological life forms that we're going to find when when

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Speaker 1: we go and visit the moons of Jupiter and Satin,

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Speaker 1: and the seed of life is the same everywhere. Yes,

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Speaker 1: it's just a matter of having the rate chemical mixer,

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Speaker 1: you know, the right warmth as you just mentioned, the water,

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Speaker 1: and all of a sudden, I think that plant, be

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Speaker 1: it a human being or whatever you want to call us,

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Speaker 1: it grows, it grows, it grows, and it soars. I'm

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Speaker 1: not saying that every exoplanet would going to find has

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Speaker 1: the abundance that the absolute amazing abundance of biological life

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Speaker 1: here on Earth, but it's suggests by these interstellar bursting

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Speaker 1: clouds that all of the if you like. The nutrients

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Speaker 1: to actually seed life on rocky planets such as Earth

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Speaker 1: are already there, and they were there five billion years

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Speaker 1: ago when our planetary system came into being. Listen to

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Speaker 1: more Coast to Coast AM every weeknight at one a m.

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Speaker 1: Eastern and go to Coast to Coast am dot com

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Speaker 1: for more