1 00:00:00,680 --> 00:00:01,320 Speaker 1: And you're here. 2 00:00:01,440 --> 00:00:03,960 Speaker 2: Thanks for choosing the iHeartRadio and Coast to Ghost, d A 3 00:00:04,040 --> 00:00:09,240 Speaker 2: and Paranormal podcast Network. Your quest for podcasts of the paranormal, supernatural, 4 00:00:09,280 --> 00:00:12,360 Speaker 2: and the unexplained ends here. We invite you to enjoy 5 00:00:12,480 --> 00:00:15,160 Speaker 2: all our shows we have on this network, and right now, 6 00:00:15,440 --> 00:00:18,759 Speaker 2: let's start with Chase of the Afterlife with Sandra Champlain. 7 00:00:21,960 --> 00:00:25,279 Speaker 3: Welcome to our podcast. Please be aware the thoughts and 8 00:00:25,360 --> 00:00:29,320 Speaker 3: opinions expressed by the host are their thoughts and opinions 9 00:00:29,320 --> 00:00:34,560 Speaker 3: only and do not reflect those of iHeartMedia, iHeartRadio, Coast 10 00:00:34,560 --> 00:00:39,000 Speaker 3: to Coast, am employees of premier networks, or their sponsors 11 00:00:39,040 --> 00:00:42,239 Speaker 3: and associates. We would like to encourage you to do 12 00:00:42,280 --> 00:00:48,560 Speaker 3: your own research and discover the subject matter for yourself. Hi. 13 00:00:48,840 --> 00:00:52,879 Speaker 3: I'm Sandra Champlain. For over twenty five years, I've been 14 00:00:52,920 --> 00:00:56,520 Speaker 3: on a journey to prove the existence of life after death. 15 00:00:57,160 --> 00:01:01,200 Speaker 3: On each episode, we'll discuss the reasons. Now know that 16 00:01:01,280 --> 00:01:06,600 Speaker 3: our loved ones have survived physical doubt, and so will we. 17 00:01:06,600 --> 00:01:10,160 Speaker 3: Welcome to Shades of the Afterlife. Hey, I have a 18 00:01:10,200 --> 00:01:13,600 Speaker 3: favor to ask before we begin the episode. It's simple, 19 00:01:13,840 --> 00:01:19,000 Speaker 3: two words. Be kind. Yeah, be kind to yourself, Be 20 00:01:19,120 --> 00:01:22,800 Speaker 3: kind to others make a difference wherever you can. We 21 00:01:22,840 --> 00:01:26,040 Speaker 3: know we're living in a time of a lot of uncertainty. 22 00:01:26,080 --> 00:01:30,240 Speaker 3: There's so much pain suffering. My goodness. You watch the news, 23 00:01:30,680 --> 00:01:36,119 Speaker 3: natural disasters, man made disasters. We're having disagreements with our 24 00:01:36,160 --> 00:01:38,880 Speaker 3: loved ones and our neighbors. We have a fear of 25 00:01:38,920 --> 00:01:43,800 Speaker 3: the future and so much more. Times are tough for 26 00:01:43,840 --> 00:01:46,920 Speaker 3: so many and we know that if we haven't walked 27 00:01:47,000 --> 00:01:50,600 Speaker 3: in somebody else's shoes, we don't understand why they do 28 00:01:50,680 --> 00:01:53,880 Speaker 3: the things they do, why they believe what they believe, 29 00:01:54,320 --> 00:01:57,880 Speaker 3: and ultimately, we don't know what other people are experiencing. 30 00:01:58,360 --> 00:02:01,320 Speaker 3: It is my pure belief that you and I are 31 00:02:01,440 --> 00:02:06,120 Speaker 3: souls having a human experience on this fine planet we 32 00:02:06,160 --> 00:02:10,280 Speaker 3: call Earth. It's a rough one. It's not easy. So 33 00:02:10,440 --> 00:02:14,040 Speaker 3: as we navigate our journeys today and in the future, 34 00:02:14,520 --> 00:02:19,440 Speaker 3: just remember Sandra said be kind. Wherever you can insert 35 00:02:19,480 --> 00:02:22,799 Speaker 3: those two words and put them into action, I will 36 00:02:22,800 --> 00:02:27,120 Speaker 3: be eternally grateful, and I will do the same now 37 00:02:27,160 --> 00:02:30,560 Speaker 3: onto our episode today. What would it be like to 38 00:02:30,960 --> 00:02:35,080 Speaker 3: befriend death, to honestly accept that it's going to happen 39 00:02:35,120 --> 00:02:37,799 Speaker 3: to all of us and make peace with it. I 40 00:02:37,840 --> 00:02:42,000 Speaker 3: know that seems like a crazy request because we fear 41 00:02:42,120 --> 00:02:45,720 Speaker 3: death and we are looking for proof of the afterlife. 42 00:02:46,000 --> 00:02:50,160 Speaker 3: But have human beings always lived this way? Our guest 43 00:02:50,240 --> 00:02:53,320 Speaker 3: today says no, it's only been the past one hundred 44 00:02:53,400 --> 00:02:55,800 Speaker 3: or one hundred and fifty years that we've had such 45 00:02:55,800 --> 00:02:59,760 Speaker 3: a burning desire to understand death, and that it's all 46 00:03:00,080 --> 00:03:04,839 Speaker 3: due to the culture we were born into. Joanna Ebinstein 47 00:03:05,080 --> 00:03:10,120 Speaker 3: is an internationally recognized death expert. She is the author 48 00:03:10,200 --> 00:03:14,760 Speaker 3: of several books, including her latest Memento Maury, The Art 49 00:03:14,880 --> 00:03:19,440 Speaker 3: of Contemplating Death to Live a Better Life, Coming to 50 00:03:19,520 --> 00:03:24,800 Speaker 3: us from Mexico Today. She is the founder and director 51 00:03:25,000 --> 00:03:30,639 Speaker 3: for Morbidanatomy dot org. Mexico, as we know, is one 52 00:03:30,720 --> 00:03:35,520 Speaker 3: country that celebrates the afterlife. Joanna, Welcome to Shades of 53 00:03:35,560 --> 00:03:36,480 Speaker 3: the Afterlife. 54 00:03:36,680 --> 00:03:38,720 Speaker 1: Thank you so much. It's such a pleasure to be here. 55 00:03:39,360 --> 00:03:40,520 Speaker 1: I'm excited to talk to you. 56 00:03:40,560 --> 00:03:43,960 Speaker 3: I watched your ed X talk and search through the 57 00:03:43,960 --> 00:03:48,920 Speaker 3: internet about you. I ordered your book. I'm all excited. Yeah, 58 00:03:48,960 --> 00:03:50,760 Speaker 3: this is a story I think that needs to be 59 00:03:50,840 --> 00:03:54,680 Speaker 3: told to just more people because here. Yes, I know 60 00:03:54,800 --> 00:03:56,800 Speaker 3: there's a lot of grieving people who want evidence of 61 00:03:56,840 --> 00:04:00,000 Speaker 3: the afterlife, but there's something missing I think in our culture, 62 00:04:00,200 --> 00:04:03,600 Speaker 3: especially in North America and places in Europe, is we 63 00:04:03,720 --> 00:04:07,280 Speaker 3: don't talk about death like I think it used to 64 00:04:07,280 --> 00:04:09,240 Speaker 3: be talked about. So if you wouldn't mind, tell us 65 00:04:09,240 --> 00:04:11,960 Speaker 3: a little bit about yourself, where you are, and how 66 00:04:12,000 --> 00:04:15,520 Speaker 3: I got into this fascinating world. So it's just such 67 00:04:15,520 --> 00:04:16,040 Speaker 3: a good question. 68 00:04:16,160 --> 00:04:18,040 Speaker 1: So I was based in New York City for about 69 00:04:18,040 --> 00:04:20,600 Speaker 1: twenty three years, where I ran the Morbid Anatomy Museum. 70 00:04:20,640 --> 00:04:24,320 Speaker 1: It is now Morbid Anatomy without the museum, mostly online. 71 00:04:24,800 --> 00:04:27,360 Speaker 1: My quick answer is always, I think all children are 72 00:04:27,400 --> 00:04:30,240 Speaker 1: interested in this, and at a certain point they realize 73 00:04:30,240 --> 00:04:32,560 Speaker 1: it's gross or weird, especially if you're a girl. And 74 00:04:32,640 --> 00:04:35,039 Speaker 1: for whatever reason, I didn't. So that's one of my answers. 75 00:04:35,080 --> 00:04:38,599 Speaker 1: And my other answer is I was the granddaughter of 76 00:04:38,720 --> 00:04:41,320 Speaker 1: Holocaust survivors, so in my family, death was a part 77 00:04:41,320 --> 00:04:43,680 Speaker 1: of everyday life. We were allowed to ask about it, 78 00:04:43,960 --> 00:04:46,760 Speaker 1: but we knew that my favorite grandmother and grandfather who 79 00:04:46,760 --> 00:04:50,360 Speaker 1: we spent our summers with, had suffered this insane death 80 00:04:50,360 --> 00:04:53,040 Speaker 1: event and lost many of their family members. They were 81 00:04:53,040 --> 00:04:55,560 Speaker 1: also doctors, so they were very non nonsense about the 82 00:04:55,600 --> 00:04:57,960 Speaker 1: body and about death. So I think all of those 83 00:04:58,000 --> 00:05:01,599 Speaker 1: things combined to make it so that when more normal 84 00:05:01,680 --> 00:05:04,880 Speaker 1: kids maybe would have outgrown stead they weren't interested in 85 00:05:04,880 --> 00:05:06,880 Speaker 1: this anymore. I continued to be interested. 86 00:05:07,600 --> 00:05:09,680 Speaker 3: And you are in Mexico right now. 87 00:05:09,560 --> 00:05:11,960 Speaker 1: Right, Yes, I'm based in Mexico, which was a direct 88 00:05:12,000 --> 00:05:14,760 Speaker 1: response of all of the work I've done exploring death 89 00:05:14,800 --> 00:05:16,800 Speaker 1: myself to try to come to terms with it, and 90 00:05:17,400 --> 00:05:20,440 Speaker 1: my organization had been doing trips to Mexico for Day 91 00:05:20,440 --> 00:05:22,280 Speaker 1: of the Dead, so I had started coming down here 92 00:05:22,279 --> 00:05:24,400 Speaker 1: as part of that and just fell in love with 93 00:05:24,440 --> 00:05:26,799 Speaker 1: the culture and ended up staying essentially. 94 00:05:26,800 --> 00:05:30,200 Speaker 3: Yeah, in Mexico and South America, places that embrace death 95 00:05:30,240 --> 00:05:33,400 Speaker 3: and the reality of the afterlife and celebrating and all 96 00:05:33,440 --> 00:05:36,200 Speaker 3: of that. So if you wouldn't mind sharing, share your 97 00:05:36,320 --> 00:05:39,880 Speaker 3: heart out, because I know there's so much that I 98 00:05:39,880 --> 00:05:43,600 Speaker 3: think could maybe lighten up the conversation. I know, one 99 00:05:43,640 --> 00:05:46,600 Speaker 3: hundred years ago, even in America, people saw death, They 100 00:05:46,680 --> 00:05:50,360 Speaker 3: lived on farms, they had funerals in the parlor, which 101 00:05:50,760 --> 00:05:53,080 Speaker 3: a living room when it was normal. And no, it's 102 00:05:53,960 --> 00:05:54,560 Speaker 3: from our view. 103 00:05:54,960 --> 00:05:56,560 Speaker 1: What I always say to my students, and what I 104 00:05:56,600 --> 00:06:00,240 Speaker 1: really want to impress upon people is how strange is 105 00:06:00,279 --> 00:06:02,200 Speaker 1: the way that we approach death and when you look 106 00:06:02,200 --> 00:06:04,240 Speaker 1: at the rest of human history, and that, as you said, 107 00:06:04,279 --> 00:06:05,840 Speaker 1: goes up to the last one hundred or one hundred 108 00:06:05,839 --> 00:06:07,560 Speaker 1: and fifty or so years in our own country, but 109 00:06:07,680 --> 00:06:10,120 Speaker 1: still all around the world there are places that have 110 00:06:10,480 --> 00:06:13,480 Speaker 1: relationships with death that we would find strange or bizarre. 111 00:06:13,760 --> 00:06:15,960 Speaker 1: I should also back up and say what I studied 112 00:06:15,960 --> 00:06:19,600 Speaker 1: in college was a subject called intellectual history, and intellectual 113 00:06:19,640 --> 00:06:22,800 Speaker 1: history is looking at the past through the products of 114 00:06:22,839 --> 00:06:25,160 Speaker 1: the time. So we wouldn't read history books, but instead, 115 00:06:25,160 --> 00:06:27,440 Speaker 1: if you were studying the eighteenth century, for example, you'd 116 00:06:27,480 --> 00:06:30,440 Speaker 1: read philosophy, you'd look at mass that was developed at 117 00:06:30,440 --> 00:06:32,640 Speaker 1: that time. You looked at clothing and paintings and all 118 00:06:32,720 --> 00:06:34,880 Speaker 1: of these things that were the product of a time 119 00:06:34,920 --> 00:06:37,640 Speaker 1: to understand kind of the temper of the time. And 120 00:06:37,720 --> 00:06:39,640 Speaker 1: so with that, Lens I went to Europe for the 121 00:06:39,680 --> 00:06:42,719 Speaker 1: first time after I'd graduated college, and I went to 122 00:06:42,760 --> 00:06:45,479 Speaker 1: these museums and these churches, and my mind was blown 123 00:06:45,480 --> 00:06:47,640 Speaker 1: because I was seeing all of these objects that combine 124 00:06:47,680 --> 00:06:51,039 Speaker 1: death and beauty in ways that I had been told tacitly, 125 00:06:51,200 --> 00:06:53,960 Speaker 1: and in my culture that was impossible. Death and beauty 126 00:06:54,000 --> 00:06:56,240 Speaker 1: just don't go together in our culture. But when you 127 00:06:56,360 --> 00:06:58,799 Speaker 1: go to all of these museums, all of these churches, 128 00:06:58,839 --> 00:07:01,039 Speaker 1: and you see one after the of these objects. My 129 00:07:01,520 --> 00:07:04,239 Speaker 1: intellectual history mind began to say, well, okay, wait a second, 130 00:07:04,279 --> 00:07:07,600 Speaker 1: what's going on here. Either European history is really morbid, 131 00:07:08,000 --> 00:07:10,080 Speaker 1: or something has changed in the way we've looked at 132 00:07:10,120 --> 00:07:13,520 Speaker 1: death that has made these images that were once prosaic 133 00:07:13,600 --> 00:07:17,160 Speaker 1: and part of everyday life strange and bizarre. And looking 134 00:07:17,200 --> 00:07:19,080 Speaker 1: at how many of them again through the lens of 135 00:07:19,080 --> 00:07:22,400 Speaker 1: this discipline, tells me that this was not seen as 136 00:07:22,400 --> 00:07:24,440 Speaker 1: bizarre or strange. There wouldn't be so many and they 137 00:07:24,480 --> 00:07:27,520 Speaker 1: wouldn't be preserved. Right, So there's something in us that's changed, 138 00:07:27,560 --> 00:07:30,600 Speaker 1: And that began this kind of inquiry of what is 139 00:07:30,640 --> 00:07:31,440 Speaker 1: it in us that. 140 00:07:31,440 --> 00:07:33,600 Speaker 3: Has changed that has made death seem strange? 141 00:07:33,600 --> 00:07:36,680 Speaker 1: And I would say the other prong of that development 142 00:07:36,920 --> 00:07:39,480 Speaker 1: was my grandmother, So the same grandmother I mentioned, who 143 00:07:39,720 --> 00:07:42,080 Speaker 1: had lost a lot of family in the Holocaust. As 144 00:07:42,080 --> 00:07:44,360 Speaker 1: she grew older, she lost her husband, they'd been together 145 00:07:44,400 --> 00:07:46,960 Speaker 1: since they were nineteen. All of her friends were dying, 146 00:07:47,040 --> 00:07:51,480 Speaker 1: She couldn't read anymore, and she was relatively healthy, but 147 00:07:51,600 --> 00:07:53,720 Speaker 1: she just began to say, whenever I saw her, she 148 00:07:53,720 --> 00:07:55,640 Speaker 1: would pull me aside and say there's no one else 149 00:07:55,680 --> 00:07:57,880 Speaker 1: I can say this too, but I just want to die. 150 00:07:58,240 --> 00:08:01,680 Speaker 1: I really felt that in my heart, and I also felt, well, 151 00:08:01,680 --> 00:08:03,680 Speaker 1: of course you should be able to say that, that's 152 00:08:03,760 --> 00:08:06,200 Speaker 1: about the most important thing you could share with another 153 00:08:06,320 --> 00:08:09,320 Speaker 1: human being. What is it in our culture that made 154 00:08:09,400 --> 00:08:11,920 Speaker 1: it so you're not allowed to say that? How did 155 00:08:11,920 --> 00:08:14,160 Speaker 1: it become taboo? So it was kind of these two 156 00:08:14,240 --> 00:08:16,720 Speaker 1: things that formed this area of inquiry for me that 157 00:08:16,760 --> 00:08:20,000 Speaker 1: became morbid anatomy. So I began to look at different 158 00:08:20,000 --> 00:08:23,000 Speaker 1: images and also histories of the way death had been 159 00:08:23,040 --> 00:08:26,760 Speaker 1: looked at and explored and befriended, if you will, and 160 00:08:27,120 --> 00:08:29,960 Speaker 1: imagined in different times and places as a way to 161 00:08:30,000 --> 00:08:32,719 Speaker 1: try to understand how we got to where we are 162 00:08:32,800 --> 00:08:35,400 Speaker 1: now and if it's inevitable, which I do not think 163 00:08:35,440 --> 00:08:38,400 Speaker 1: it is, and why it is that we're so estranged 164 00:08:38,400 --> 00:08:40,840 Speaker 1: from death. And later, as I developed this project, my 165 00:08:40,920 --> 00:08:43,680 Speaker 1: hope began to be by showing all these images with 166 00:08:43,840 --> 00:08:46,280 Speaker 1: very little texts, have people come to the same realization 167 00:08:46,360 --> 00:08:49,040 Speaker 1: that I did, you know, on their own, which is basically, wow, 168 00:08:49,720 --> 00:08:52,760 Speaker 1: we're the weirdos. You know, all of human history is 169 00:08:52,800 --> 00:08:55,360 Speaker 1: not the weirdo And you know, going back to your question, right, 170 00:08:55,440 --> 00:08:58,560 Speaker 1: like this idea of humans and death, Humans and death 171 00:08:58,559 --> 00:09:02,040 Speaker 1: have been intimately entwined, and since the beginning of our consciousness, 172 00:09:02,040 --> 00:09:05,400 Speaker 1: all humans deal with death. And until we had hospitals 173 00:09:05,480 --> 00:09:08,199 Speaker 1: and funeral homes, which is not in the hospitals as 174 00:09:08,200 --> 00:09:10,199 Speaker 1: we now think of them. Not until the nineteenth century, 175 00:09:10,640 --> 00:09:13,600 Speaker 1: people died at home, people lived in extended families, people 176 00:09:13,600 --> 00:09:16,199 Speaker 1: butchered their own animals. So this idea of death as 177 00:09:16,240 --> 00:09:19,800 Speaker 1: being something other and outside of daily life, I always 178 00:09:19,840 --> 00:09:22,280 Speaker 1: like to say, is a luxury that is unique to 179 00:09:22,360 --> 00:09:24,960 Speaker 1: our time and place. There has never been a time 180 00:09:25,000 --> 00:09:27,320 Speaker 1: in human history that I have found in which we 181 00:09:27,320 --> 00:09:30,959 Speaker 1: could deny death because it's there, right, we have created 182 00:09:30,960 --> 00:09:33,000 Speaker 1: a world for ourselves in which we can sweep it 183 00:09:33,360 --> 00:09:34,520 Speaker 1: out of our consciousness. 184 00:09:34,520 --> 00:09:38,040 Speaker 3: But that is very, very unique. This morning, I was 185 00:09:38,120 --> 00:09:40,280 Speaker 3: driving with my mom and where we live, we go 186 00:09:40,559 --> 00:09:45,160 Speaker 3: right past a turkey farm and I always turn my head. 187 00:09:45,240 --> 00:09:47,520 Speaker 3: I don't want to look at the turkeys. I know 188 00:09:47,559 --> 00:09:50,600 Speaker 3: what's going to happen. And then I thought, Sandra, you're 189 00:09:50,640 --> 00:09:54,240 Speaker 3: really a hypocrite, because do you buy turkey at the 190 00:09:54,240 --> 00:09:58,600 Speaker 3: grocery store. Yes, So there's part of me that doesn't 191 00:09:58,600 --> 00:10:00,640 Speaker 3: want to see it, but of course you know, I'm 192 00:10:00,640 --> 00:10:01,439 Speaker 3: no vegetarian. 193 00:10:03,280 --> 00:10:04,800 Speaker 1: Yeah, but I would just say, you know, from my 194 00:10:04,840 --> 00:10:08,480 Speaker 1: experience in Mexico that that is just cultural. My big 195 00:10:08,520 --> 00:10:11,320 Speaker 1: realization spending time in other places, not just Mexico but 196 00:10:11,360 --> 00:10:15,760 Speaker 1: also Bolivia and Hungary, is that if we were born 197 00:10:15,800 --> 00:10:17,920 Speaker 1: in a different time of place, we'd think differently, very 198 00:10:18,000 --> 00:10:19,800 Speaker 1: very probably. And so here when I go to my 199 00:10:19,880 --> 00:10:22,400 Speaker 1: local market, you know, the big market, the open air market, 200 00:10:22,400 --> 00:10:24,720 Speaker 1: where there's vendors selling fruits and vegetables and meat. 201 00:10:25,080 --> 00:10:25,760 Speaker 3: The animals have. 202 00:10:25,800 --> 00:10:28,559 Speaker 1: Heads on, you see blood dripping on the floor. It's 203 00:10:28,600 --> 00:10:32,560 Speaker 1: a different way in which even death in this way 204 00:10:32,640 --> 00:10:35,160 Speaker 1: is encountered in this culture. I really really feel like 205 00:10:35,200 --> 00:10:38,439 Speaker 1: it is unique to where we are born in the industrialized, 206 00:10:38,440 --> 00:10:41,720 Speaker 1: affluent West, that we can have this distance, or that 207 00:10:41,760 --> 00:10:44,760 Speaker 1: we would have this distance and have to be hypocritical 208 00:10:44,800 --> 00:10:46,920 Speaker 1: in our consumption of meat, right, I get it. 209 00:10:48,000 --> 00:10:48,920 Speaker 3: But yeah, I think. 210 00:10:48,800 --> 00:10:51,560 Speaker 1: It just matters so much when and where you're born 211 00:10:51,840 --> 00:10:53,560 Speaker 1: how you feel about that, And. 212 00:10:53,480 --> 00:10:56,880 Speaker 3: That helps to hear because we don't have to blame ourselves. 213 00:10:56,920 --> 00:10:59,720 Speaker 3: This is the culture. I want to ask you about 214 00:10:59,760 --> 00:11:01,720 Speaker 3: this art work you were talking about. What kind of 215 00:11:01,800 --> 00:11:04,080 Speaker 3: artwork did you find. 216 00:11:04,679 --> 00:11:07,240 Speaker 1: I found so many things. So the first thing I 217 00:11:07,280 --> 00:11:10,480 Speaker 1: think of our paintings of saints and martyrs in Catholic 218 00:11:10,520 --> 00:11:13,840 Speaker 1: churches or even Christian churches. So basically, when I went 219 00:11:13,880 --> 00:11:17,040 Speaker 1: to the churches in Germany and Austria, I saw pictures 220 00:11:17,080 --> 00:11:20,200 Speaker 1: of twenty martyrs being put on crosses with blood dropping. 221 00:11:20,440 --> 00:11:23,120 Speaker 3: You see a. 222 00:11:22,200 --> 00:11:24,880 Speaker 1: Big cleaver going through the head of a saint, or 223 00:11:24,880 --> 00:11:27,520 Speaker 1: a beheaded saint holding his head in his hand, right. 224 00:11:27,880 --> 00:11:30,720 Speaker 1: So many of the Catholic saints are defined by their martyrdoms, 225 00:11:30,720 --> 00:11:33,080 Speaker 1: and so they're depicted in images. So that's one thing. 226 00:11:33,600 --> 00:11:36,439 Speaker 1: And then there are all these art genres that revolve 227 00:11:36,480 --> 00:11:39,040 Speaker 1: around literally doing what we're here to talk about today, 228 00:11:39,080 --> 00:11:41,960 Speaker 1: getting people to contemplate their own mortality. So some of 229 00:11:41,960 --> 00:11:45,120 Speaker 1: these are called momento mary. And these are objects that 230 00:11:45,200 --> 00:11:48,360 Speaker 1: are objects or artworks or sometimes practices that are intended 231 00:11:48,400 --> 00:11:52,040 Speaker 1: to remind the viewer of their death or the participator 232 00:11:52,080 --> 00:11:54,360 Speaker 1: of their death, in order to remind them to live 233 00:11:54,360 --> 00:11:57,440 Speaker 1: according to their real values, their sole values, if you will, 234 00:11:57,520 --> 00:11:59,000 Speaker 1: or however you might want to think about that. 235 00:11:59,240 --> 00:12:00,400 Speaker 3: You know, from a Christian point. 236 00:12:00,240 --> 00:12:02,240 Speaker 1: Of view, a lot of these are obviously about, you know, 237 00:12:02,720 --> 00:12:05,280 Speaker 1: don't sin because you're going to meet your maker soon. 238 00:12:05,720 --> 00:12:08,080 Speaker 1: But I think we take that outside of that religious 239 00:12:08,080 --> 00:12:11,200 Speaker 1: context and see it as your true values versus the 240 00:12:11,240 --> 00:12:13,880 Speaker 1: easy values of everyday life, of you know, wanting to 241 00:12:13,920 --> 00:12:16,960 Speaker 1: have a good time and enjoy your life, reminding you 242 00:12:17,000 --> 00:12:18,800 Speaker 1: of what's really important to you and what you might 243 00:12:18,840 --> 00:12:20,920 Speaker 1: regret on your deathbed so that you can live the 244 00:12:20,960 --> 00:12:23,720 Speaker 1: life you want to now. And so these artworks could 245 00:12:23,760 --> 00:12:26,520 Speaker 1: take the form of what are called manitas, which were 246 00:12:26,559 --> 00:12:29,560 Speaker 1: still life paintings that would often have a skull, but 247 00:12:29,679 --> 00:12:34,120 Speaker 1: also dying flowers, a candle with the flame snuffed out, 248 00:12:34,200 --> 00:12:37,199 Speaker 1: symbolizing a life cut short. There's all those ornate symbolism 249 00:12:37,200 --> 00:12:40,680 Speaker 1: bubbles which is the brevity of life, or coins and 250 00:12:40,760 --> 00:12:44,360 Speaker 1: crowns signifying like the pleasures or the powers of earthly 251 00:12:44,400 --> 00:12:47,200 Speaker 1: life that disappear upon our death. And these were artworks 252 00:12:47,200 --> 00:12:50,640 Speaker 1: that were hung in people's homes primarily in order to 253 00:12:50,640 --> 00:12:53,720 Speaker 1: remind them of their mortality, that life is short. 254 00:12:54,600 --> 00:12:56,680 Speaker 3: Let's take a quick break and we'll be right back. 255 00:12:57,000 --> 00:13:00,000 Speaker 3: You're listening to Shades of the Afterlife on the Eye 256 00:13:00,120 --> 00:13:23,800 Speaker 3: Heart Radio and Coast to Coast AM Paranormal Podcast Network. 257 00:13:25,120 --> 00:13:28,400 Speaker 3: Welcome back to Shades of the Afterlife. I'm Sandra Champlain 258 00:13:28,880 --> 00:13:33,960 Speaker 3: and we're with Joanna Ebinstein talking now about artwork. People 259 00:13:34,000 --> 00:13:38,440 Speaker 3: in olden times in Europe would display about death in 260 00:13:38,559 --> 00:13:40,800 Speaker 3: order to live a better life. 261 00:13:41,160 --> 00:13:44,440 Speaker 1: These artworks could take the form of what are called manitas, 262 00:13:44,520 --> 00:13:47,600 Speaker 1: which were still life paintings that would often have a skull, 263 00:13:47,840 --> 00:13:52,160 Speaker 1: but also dying flowers, a candle with a flame snuffed out, 264 00:13:52,200 --> 00:13:55,199 Speaker 1: symbolizing a life cut short. There's all those ornate symbolism 265 00:13:55,240 --> 00:13:58,720 Speaker 1: bubbles which is the brevity of life, or coins and 266 00:13:58,800 --> 00:14:02,680 Speaker 1: crowns signifying the pleasures or the powers of earthly life 267 00:14:02,679 --> 00:14:05,200 Speaker 1: that disappear upon our death. And these were our works 268 00:14:05,240 --> 00:14:08,599 Speaker 1: that were hung in people's homes primarily in order to 269 00:14:08,679 --> 00:14:11,720 Speaker 1: remind them of their mortality, that life is short. 270 00:14:12,240 --> 00:14:15,560 Speaker 3: I think we need that, we really do. I've seen 271 00:14:15,640 --> 00:14:21,000 Speaker 3: pictures of children and adults dead, like, do you want 272 00:14:21,000 --> 00:14:22,560 Speaker 3: to talk a little bit about that, because I think 273 00:14:22,600 --> 00:14:27,480 Speaker 3: the child mortality rate, all mortality rate was much higher. Yeah, 274 00:14:27,920 --> 00:14:28,640 Speaker 3: that's a great point. 275 00:14:28,760 --> 00:14:31,560 Speaker 1: So, yeah, child mortality rate from the numbers I've read 276 00:14:31,560 --> 00:14:33,480 Speaker 1: in the nineteenth century, as many as three out of 277 00:14:33,480 --> 00:14:36,120 Speaker 1: five children died before reaching adulthood, which is I know, 278 00:14:36,240 --> 00:14:37,520 Speaker 1: impossible to imagine. 279 00:14:37,880 --> 00:14:40,200 Speaker 3: And parents then grieved as much as parents now. 280 00:14:40,240 --> 00:14:41,640 Speaker 1: I mean, this was as hard for them as it 281 00:14:41,680 --> 00:14:44,360 Speaker 1: is for us, even though death was commonplace, and so 282 00:14:44,720 --> 00:14:47,560 Speaker 1: for the very, very wealthy you might see paintings of 283 00:14:47,600 --> 00:14:51,840 Speaker 1: the decease, called post mortem paintings. But once the technology 284 00:14:51,880 --> 00:14:54,680 Speaker 1: of photography developed and became more within reach than painting, 285 00:14:54,720 --> 00:14:57,640 Speaker 1: that became very, very popular, and this was called post 286 00:14:57,680 --> 00:15:02,280 Speaker 1: mortem or memorial photography. So photographers every town would have 287 00:15:02,280 --> 00:15:05,000 Speaker 1: their photographer or business before we had our own little 288 00:15:05,040 --> 00:15:08,280 Speaker 1: portable cameras, right would come and it would advertise that 289 00:15:08,320 --> 00:15:12,160 Speaker 1: they would also specialize in photographing the deceased. And I 290 00:15:12,160 --> 00:15:14,960 Speaker 1: think something that's really important to think about when we 291 00:15:15,040 --> 00:15:19,000 Speaker 1: remember this tradition is that because photography was so new, 292 00:15:19,160 --> 00:15:21,880 Speaker 1: some families wouldn't have a photograph of their childs yet 293 00:15:22,080 --> 00:15:24,760 Speaker 1: until they died, right, So this might be the only 294 00:15:24,920 --> 00:15:27,360 Speaker 1: photograph they would have, And so the photograph might go 295 00:15:27,400 --> 00:15:29,880 Speaker 1: on a locket, it might go on a wall, or 296 00:15:29,880 --> 00:15:32,760 Speaker 1: in a photo album. These were a part of everyday life. 297 00:15:32,800 --> 00:15:34,680 Speaker 1: They weren't hidden away in the way that you would 298 00:15:34,720 --> 00:15:37,120 Speaker 1: expect now. And sometimes the child was laid out on 299 00:15:37,160 --> 00:15:39,680 Speaker 1: a bed as if sleeping. This was called sleeping beauties. 300 00:15:39,720 --> 00:15:42,640 Speaker 1: This was a tradition at the time. Sometimes you see 301 00:15:42,640 --> 00:15:45,880 Speaker 1: them in the coffin with the flowers. Sometimes the parents 302 00:15:45,920 --> 00:15:48,720 Speaker 1: posed with them, So there's all sorts of different approaches. Yeah, 303 00:15:48,720 --> 00:15:53,040 Speaker 1: they're really heartbreaking and very beautiful photographs, very tender, and 304 00:15:53,080 --> 00:15:56,400 Speaker 1: they really show I think, as I said that, even 305 00:15:56,480 --> 00:15:59,440 Speaker 1: though there were so much death and parents were clearly 306 00:15:59,640 --> 00:16:02,400 Speaker 1: warning loss of their children as much as we do now, 307 00:16:02,840 --> 00:16:05,160 Speaker 1: I will say what they had that was I think 308 00:16:05,160 --> 00:16:09,080 Speaker 1: an advantage to what we had is these artistic practices 309 00:16:09,080 --> 00:16:12,480 Speaker 1: that help them make sense of the event maybe or 310 00:16:12,600 --> 00:16:16,080 Speaker 1: commemorate the event, or stay with it. Another tradition that 311 00:16:16,200 --> 00:16:18,880 Speaker 1: I really love from this era is called Victorian hair art. 312 00:16:19,280 --> 00:16:21,920 Speaker 1: So women would make objects with the hair of the 313 00:16:21,960 --> 00:16:25,400 Speaker 1: dead beloved, sometimes even someone still living, as a sentimental reminder. 314 00:16:25,720 --> 00:16:28,080 Speaker 1: But this could take the form of jewelry like going 315 00:16:28,080 --> 00:16:30,160 Speaker 1: in the lockett a breed in a locket, for example, 316 00:16:30,160 --> 00:16:33,000 Speaker 1: but could even be these big kind of shadow boxes 317 00:16:33,040 --> 00:16:36,040 Speaker 1: that have these ornate constructions with hair from the entire family. 318 00:16:36,400 --> 00:16:40,680 Speaker 1: So there's a lot of artistic or craft traditions going 319 00:16:40,720 --> 00:16:43,240 Speaker 1: on at that time that women were engaging in women 320 00:16:43,280 --> 00:16:45,560 Speaker 1: who could afford it as an act of mourning that 321 00:16:45,680 --> 00:16:50,080 Speaker 1: I feel like not only commemorated the dead, but it 322 00:16:50,160 --> 00:16:52,800 Speaker 1: seems to me helped the living work through their grief 323 00:16:52,880 --> 00:16:55,040 Speaker 1: in a poetic way. And I tried to do hair work. 324 00:16:55,280 --> 00:16:57,560 Speaker 1: One of our teachers is named Karen Bachman, and she 325 00:16:57,640 --> 00:17:00,040 Speaker 1: taught herself how to do Victorian hair work through looking 326 00:17:00,080 --> 00:17:02,560 Speaker 1: at the old magazines and visiting some places, but still 327 00:17:02,560 --> 00:17:04,600 Speaker 1: do it. She teaches it for us and I took 328 00:17:04,640 --> 00:17:07,720 Speaker 1: the class once and it's really really hard to work 329 00:17:07,760 --> 00:17:10,720 Speaker 1: with human hair. You have to really go slow, you 330 00:17:10,800 --> 00:17:13,720 Speaker 1: have to concentrate, and I feel like when I did it, 331 00:17:13,720 --> 00:17:15,960 Speaker 1: it was so meditative. You have to get into this 332 00:17:16,040 --> 00:17:19,359 Speaker 1: meditative space. And I began to think, oh, that's probably 333 00:17:19,359 --> 00:17:21,320 Speaker 1: a big part of why it was so popular. It 334 00:17:21,440 --> 00:17:24,320 Speaker 1: forces you to slow down, to withdraw from life, and 335 00:17:24,359 --> 00:17:27,639 Speaker 1: to work with something so intimate to your lost loved 336 00:17:27,640 --> 00:17:30,199 Speaker 1: one towards the production of something that will be a 337 00:17:30,280 --> 00:17:33,800 Speaker 1: keepsake and a memory. But the actual act of working 338 00:17:33,840 --> 00:17:35,560 Speaker 1: with it, I think must have been a big part 339 00:17:35,560 --> 00:17:36,840 Speaker 1: of why it was so popular. 340 00:17:37,400 --> 00:17:39,760 Speaker 3: That makes sense, and my mind is just reminded. I've 341 00:17:39,760 --> 00:17:42,520 Speaker 3: done a lot of research into the grieving process and 342 00:17:42,560 --> 00:17:47,399 Speaker 3: how our anatomy change as far as neurotransmitters deplete and things. 343 00:17:47,440 --> 00:17:50,520 Speaker 3: And one of the things to help restore us is 344 00:17:50,600 --> 00:17:53,879 Speaker 3: being in the present moment to help through grief, to 345 00:17:53,960 --> 00:17:57,200 Speaker 3: be present and when you're so focused on those pieces 346 00:17:57,200 --> 00:18:00,920 Speaker 3: of hair or whatever it is, you're doing an opportunity 347 00:18:01,040 --> 00:18:04,920 Speaker 3: to heal. And I can totally get how that would 348 00:18:04,920 --> 00:18:08,320 Speaker 3: be helpful through grief. I wanted to ask you to 349 00:18:08,359 --> 00:18:14,200 Speaker 3: share some of the cultures that embrace death the afterlife celebrate. 350 00:18:14,960 --> 00:18:17,840 Speaker 3: I know I've been to Mexico around the Halloween the 351 00:18:17,920 --> 00:18:18,600 Speaker 3: Day of the Dead. 352 00:18:19,040 --> 00:18:21,440 Speaker 1: Yeah, so I think Mexico is the one that's best 353 00:18:21,440 --> 00:18:23,000 Speaker 1: known in our culture and the one that I know 354 00:18:23,080 --> 00:18:25,720 Speaker 1: the best. So I run this organization, Morbid Anatomy, and 355 00:18:25,800 --> 00:18:28,600 Speaker 1: through that I met a man named Salvador Albeine. He's 356 00:18:28,600 --> 00:18:31,239 Speaker 1: from Monterey, Mexico, and he started doing work with us 357 00:18:31,240 --> 00:18:34,520 Speaker 1: at Morbid Anatomy, doing programming about death in Mexico because 358 00:18:34,520 --> 00:18:37,399 Speaker 1: we were all so interested in it. He started leading 359 00:18:37,440 --> 00:18:40,600 Speaker 1: tours to Mexico for Day of the Dead, and I 360 00:18:40,680 --> 00:18:44,400 Speaker 1: think everyone that I've spoken to has been changed by 361 00:18:44,400 --> 00:18:46,560 Speaker 1: these trips if they'd never been to Mexico for Day 362 00:18:46,560 --> 00:18:48,479 Speaker 1: of the Dead. Well, first, let's talk a little bit 363 00:18:48,480 --> 00:18:50,680 Speaker 1: about what they do around Day the Dead, which is 364 00:18:50,720 --> 00:18:55,560 Speaker 1: our Halloween. Traditionally, families will go to the cemetery together 365 00:18:55,720 --> 00:18:59,040 Speaker 1: and clean the cemetery plot and decorate it with these beautiful, 366 00:18:59,040 --> 00:19:04,000 Speaker 1: bright orange flowers is called marigolds marigolds, and they light 367 00:19:04,080 --> 00:19:07,320 Speaker 1: candles and copaul incense. They decorate the graves. Sometimes even 368 00:19:07,359 --> 00:19:09,880 Speaker 1: there's a lot of I would say overlap between Halloween, 369 00:19:10,000 --> 00:19:12,200 Speaker 1: or at least some and Day of the Dead. Hair 370 00:19:12,520 --> 00:19:15,320 Speaker 1: sometimes you'll see Halloween decorations as well on the graves. 371 00:19:15,560 --> 00:19:17,760 Speaker 1: And also the movie Coco, which of course is the 372 00:19:17,800 --> 00:19:20,159 Speaker 1: most famous celebration of Day of the Dead in the 373 00:19:20,240 --> 00:19:23,720 Speaker 1: United States. I think also the iconography of Coco gets 374 00:19:23,760 --> 00:19:25,800 Speaker 1: worked into Day the Dead down here, which I think 375 00:19:25,880 --> 00:19:28,800 Speaker 1: is really amazing. You go to the cemetery and people 376 00:19:28,880 --> 00:19:31,320 Speaker 1: if you go by night time, people are lighting candles 377 00:19:31,359 --> 00:19:33,879 Speaker 1: and they're spending the nights with the dead at the graves. 378 00:19:33,880 --> 00:19:36,680 Speaker 1: So the concept is the belief for I would say 379 00:19:36,680 --> 00:19:39,800 Speaker 1: from talking to people, a tradition is that you go 380 00:19:39,880 --> 00:19:42,639 Speaker 1: to the cemetery and the dead are allowed to return 381 00:19:42,720 --> 00:19:44,720 Speaker 1: to the land of the living for just a few days. 382 00:19:44,760 --> 00:19:47,560 Speaker 1: It's this time of year when the veil between the 383 00:19:47,600 --> 00:19:48,320 Speaker 1: living and the dead. 384 00:19:48,440 --> 00:19:49,440 Speaker 3: The lands of living and. 385 00:19:49,400 --> 00:19:52,120 Speaker 1: The dead is uniquely porous, so they can come back, 386 00:19:52,480 --> 00:19:55,880 Speaker 1: they can celebrate with their ancestors, spend time, enjoy food 387 00:19:55,920 --> 00:19:59,760 Speaker 1: and drink that they loved in life, enjoy loving relationship, 388 00:20:00,040 --> 00:20:01,159 Speaker 1: and then returned to the. 389 00:20:01,200 --> 00:20:01,840 Speaker 3: Land of the dead. 390 00:20:02,200 --> 00:20:03,840 Speaker 1: And this is a yearly thing, and this is something 391 00:20:03,880 --> 00:20:06,239 Speaker 1: that happens with a lot of culture. Is interestingly this 392 00:20:06,320 --> 00:20:09,440 Speaker 1: tradition that there's a time of year in which the 393 00:20:09,560 --> 00:20:11,240 Speaker 1: veil between the land of the living the land of 394 00:20:11,280 --> 00:20:13,680 Speaker 1: the dead allows the dead to come back and spend 395 00:20:13,720 --> 00:20:15,520 Speaker 1: a little time with the living, which I think is 396 00:20:15,560 --> 00:20:18,600 Speaker 1: a very beautiful tradition. And when I've spoken to people 397 00:20:18,640 --> 00:20:22,280 Speaker 1: down here, who are young people that I've met, and 398 00:20:22,320 --> 00:20:24,400 Speaker 1: I asked them what they think about Day of the Dead, 399 00:20:24,680 --> 00:20:27,879 Speaker 1: what I've heard again and again is well, this is 400 00:20:27,880 --> 00:20:29,600 Speaker 1: what we do. I go to the cemetery, I talk 401 00:20:29,640 --> 00:20:31,920 Speaker 1: to my grandmother, and that what I mean. I don't 402 00:20:31,920 --> 00:20:33,960 Speaker 1: know that I'm actually talking to my grandmother, but that's 403 00:20:33,960 --> 00:20:36,760 Speaker 1: what we do. And I thought that was really important 404 00:20:36,800 --> 00:20:40,399 Speaker 1: to this distinction between belief and practice that I think 405 00:20:40,440 --> 00:20:42,280 Speaker 1: in the United States or in the West, were really 406 00:20:42,680 --> 00:20:43,160 Speaker 1: was it real? 407 00:20:43,280 --> 00:20:43,840 Speaker 3: Is it true? 408 00:20:44,280 --> 00:20:46,240 Speaker 1: I don't think that matters. I don't think it matters 409 00:20:46,240 --> 00:20:48,600 Speaker 1: in Mexico, and from studies I've read on grief, I 410 00:20:48,600 --> 00:20:51,560 Speaker 1: don't think that necessarily matters either. There's a wonderful book 411 00:20:51,600 --> 00:20:54,879 Speaker 1: that I quote a lot in my book by George Bonano. 412 00:20:55,040 --> 00:20:57,880 Speaker 1: He's at Columbia University and he did a book called 413 00:20:57,920 --> 00:21:00,280 Speaker 1: The Other Side of Sorrow I believe is what It's call, 414 00:21:00,800 --> 00:21:03,560 Speaker 1: which he was grieving his father when he did these studies, 415 00:21:03,600 --> 00:21:06,480 Speaker 1: and he began to do studies about grief and what 416 00:21:06,680 --> 00:21:09,280 Speaker 1: is normal or not normal, and one of the things 417 00:21:09,320 --> 00:21:11,399 Speaker 1: he looked at was talking to the dead. And I 418 00:21:11,400 --> 00:21:14,000 Speaker 1: thought what was so interesting is he interviewed a lot 419 00:21:14,000 --> 00:21:17,399 Speaker 1: of people who after the loved one passes, have a 420 00:21:17,400 --> 00:21:19,480 Speaker 1: tradition of talking to the dead, either to a photograph 421 00:21:19,600 --> 00:21:22,160 Speaker 1: or in their head or sometimes out loud. And when 422 00:21:22,200 --> 00:21:24,399 Speaker 1: he asked them, well, is it real, they said, well, 423 00:21:24,400 --> 00:21:27,080 Speaker 1: that doesn't matter. It's not even an issue. And I 424 00:21:27,080 --> 00:21:29,359 Speaker 1: think that's one of the biggest hang ups we have 425 00:21:29,440 --> 00:21:31,639 Speaker 1: in the West, is there's something in our mind that 426 00:21:31,680 --> 00:21:34,760 Speaker 1: wants to know is it real? Capital are real? And 427 00:21:34,840 --> 00:21:37,480 Speaker 1: I'm not sure we'll ever know, But that doesn't mean 428 00:21:37,520 --> 00:21:41,280 Speaker 1: it doesn't have value and it doesn't mean it's not real. 429 00:21:41,400 --> 00:21:43,320 Speaker 1: And this is on my mind too because this weekend 430 00:21:43,359 --> 00:21:48,119 Speaker 1: actually ending yesterday, I went to the International Association of 431 00:21:48,160 --> 00:21:51,000 Speaker 1: Parapsychologists here and married on Mexico. And these are people 432 00:21:51,000 --> 00:21:54,280 Speaker 1: who are trying to scientifically study the afterlife, all of 433 00:21:54,320 --> 00:21:59,000 Speaker 1: these unusual phenomenon that people in our culture, some of 434 00:21:59,000 --> 00:22:02,200 Speaker 1: them are skeptical about out and it's just really interesting 435 00:22:02,240 --> 00:22:04,960 Speaker 1: to me to think about. It is possible that we'll 436 00:22:05,000 --> 00:22:07,480 Speaker 1: never know for sure. You know, it is possible that 437 00:22:07,480 --> 00:22:09,679 Speaker 1: that's not what's meant to happen. Even if it is 438 00:22:09,920 --> 00:22:12,639 Speaker 1: capital are real, maybe it's not meant to be that 439 00:22:12,680 --> 00:22:15,800 Speaker 1: we can prove it. I don't know, but these are 440 00:22:15,840 --> 00:22:18,320 Speaker 1: things that definitely I think about from talking to people 441 00:22:18,320 --> 00:22:20,080 Speaker 1: in Mexico and these conferences. 442 00:22:20,560 --> 00:22:24,240 Speaker 3: For me, yeah, I was the biggest skeptic on the afterlife. 443 00:22:24,280 --> 00:22:27,639 Speaker 3: I was, Oh, I was pretty mean. I'd go on 444 00:22:27,640 --> 00:22:31,160 Speaker 3: to a bookstore and I'd see people reading spirituals books 445 00:22:31,160 --> 00:22:33,040 Speaker 3: and things that get out. There's no proof of that 446 00:22:33,160 --> 00:22:35,760 Speaker 3: until I went through a huge fear of dying, which 447 00:22:35,760 --> 00:22:37,879 Speaker 3: was over twenty five years ago. That has led me 448 00:22:37,880 --> 00:22:41,920 Speaker 3: on this quest. So in this time I have now 449 00:22:42,040 --> 00:22:48,479 Speaker 3: interviewed six hundred and sixty hours on the Afterlife. So 450 00:22:48,800 --> 00:22:53,000 Speaker 3: it is one hundred percent my belief that we go on, 451 00:22:53,520 --> 00:22:56,359 Speaker 3: and even talking to people that are big in studying 452 00:22:56,359 --> 00:22:59,600 Speaker 3: near death experiences and the brain shutting down for even 453 00:22:59,640 --> 00:23:04,960 Speaker 3: up to an hour, and the verifiable evidence, there's something 454 00:23:05,440 --> 00:23:10,560 Speaker 3: big that shows that our consciousness survives, which gives hope. 455 00:23:10,920 --> 00:23:15,320 Speaker 3: But I think for each person it's our own personal journey. Now, 456 00:23:15,320 --> 00:23:19,000 Speaker 3: if we get there by listening to episodes of shows 457 00:23:19,080 --> 00:23:23,159 Speaker 3: and having signs and those things ourselves, it's great. But 458 00:23:23,240 --> 00:23:26,840 Speaker 3: I also think what you're talking about people you interviewed 459 00:23:26,920 --> 00:23:32,960 Speaker 3: in Mexico to have a belief in a practice in 460 00:23:33,000 --> 00:23:37,080 Speaker 3: the culture that's okay with death Now, yes, so we're 461 00:23:37,080 --> 00:23:40,120 Speaker 3: going to miss our loved ones, but when death becomes 462 00:23:40,160 --> 00:23:44,760 Speaker 3: more regular, I think one hundred percent that even with 463 00:23:44,920 --> 00:23:48,000 Speaker 3: everything that I share, it's all about having people live 464 00:23:48,000 --> 00:23:52,360 Speaker 3: a more powerful life while we're here. Yeah. Absolutely, Yeah. 465 00:23:52,359 --> 00:23:56,600 Speaker 3: I've talked to surgeons and anta caesiologists that have a 466 00:23:56,640 --> 00:23:59,639 Speaker 3: practice when they put people to sleep so to speak, 467 00:23:59,640 --> 00:24:04,360 Speaker 3: before surgery. The fear that goes through people, the regrets, 468 00:24:04,440 --> 00:24:07,040 Speaker 3: all of that whole world, and to be able to 469 00:24:07,040 --> 00:24:10,760 Speaker 3: have people live without that so the moment they do 470 00:24:10,960 --> 00:24:13,520 Speaker 3: pass or they do get put under the knife or whatever, 471 00:24:14,359 --> 00:24:16,560 Speaker 3: that they're at peace. Right. Wouldn't that be a great 472 00:24:16,560 --> 00:24:18,480 Speaker 3: way to live life? Absolutely? 473 00:24:18,560 --> 00:24:20,199 Speaker 1: And going back to what we were saying about Mexico, 474 00:24:20,320 --> 00:24:23,359 Speaker 1: one realization I really had spending time here is that 475 00:24:23,400 --> 00:24:25,320 Speaker 1: if I was born in Mexico, I might not be 476 00:24:25,400 --> 00:24:28,200 Speaker 1: afraid of death, or the fear is different at least 477 00:24:28,240 --> 00:24:30,320 Speaker 1: and not as intense as what we have. And that's 478 00:24:30,400 --> 00:24:32,960 Speaker 1: a huge generalization. I know it's not true for everyone, 479 00:24:33,400 --> 00:24:37,159 Speaker 1: but many people that I've spoken to have agreed that 480 00:24:37,280 --> 00:24:40,399 Speaker 1: this is true. So, yes, everything you say is true. 481 00:24:40,880 --> 00:24:43,200 Speaker 1: So in my book I have a lot of information. 482 00:24:43,280 --> 00:24:44,760 Speaker 1: I talk in kind of a narrative way about all 483 00:24:44,800 --> 00:24:47,720 Speaker 1: these different cultures and what happens. But what's equally important 484 00:24:47,800 --> 00:24:50,800 Speaker 1: is I have all these exercises and journal prompts helping 485 00:24:50,800 --> 00:24:53,320 Speaker 1: people exactly what you said. It is only your own 486 00:24:53,400 --> 00:24:55,240 Speaker 1: journey that takes you to that place. It has to 487 00:24:55,320 --> 00:24:57,879 Speaker 1: be your own belief and your own understanding, and it 488 00:24:57,920 --> 00:25:00,159 Speaker 1: has to come from within. And a lot of the 489 00:25:00,320 --> 00:25:03,320 Speaker 1: journal prompts and exercises are about stepping back from what 490 00:25:03,320 --> 00:25:05,480 Speaker 1: we're being brought up with and trying to question where 491 00:25:05,480 --> 00:25:07,440 Speaker 1: they came from. First of all, where did I get 492 00:25:07,480 --> 00:25:10,159 Speaker 1: these ideas about death? And what was death like in 493 00:25:10,160 --> 00:25:10,679 Speaker 1: my family? 494 00:25:10,800 --> 00:25:12,080 Speaker 3: Was I afraid of it? Et cetera, et. 495 00:25:12,080 --> 00:25:15,159 Speaker 1: Cetera, But then also doing a sought experiment that I 496 00:25:15,200 --> 00:25:16,320 Speaker 1: think is really interesting. 497 00:25:16,800 --> 00:25:19,240 Speaker 3: Let's take our next break now, and we'll hear about 498 00:25:19,280 --> 00:25:23,080 Speaker 3: the experiment when we get back. You're listening to Shades 499 00:25:23,080 --> 00:25:26,600 Speaker 3: of the Afterlife on the iHeartRadio and Coast to Coast 500 00:25:26,640 --> 00:25:50,560 Speaker 3: AM Paranormal Podcast Network. Welcome back to Shades of the Afterlife. 501 00:25:50,600 --> 00:25:54,360 Speaker 3: I'm Sandra Champlain, and we're here with death expert Joanna 502 00:25:54,520 --> 00:25:58,439 Speaker 3: eban Stein, author of Memento Maury, and I want to 503 00:25:58,480 --> 00:26:01,400 Speaker 3: just underline something she said up about living in Mexico 504 00:26:01,760 --> 00:26:04,880 Speaker 3: and how growing up in a different culture might give 505 00:26:04,960 --> 00:26:07,960 Speaker 3: us a different belief. Here's what she says, going back 506 00:26:07,960 --> 00:26:09,160 Speaker 3: to what we were saying about Mexico. 507 00:26:09,280 --> 00:26:12,280 Speaker 1: One realization I really had spending time here is that 508 00:26:12,359 --> 00:26:14,280 Speaker 1: if I was born in Mexico, I might not be 509 00:26:14,320 --> 00:26:17,119 Speaker 1: afraid of death, or the fear is different at least 510 00:26:17,160 --> 00:26:18,679 Speaker 1: and not as intense as what we have. 511 00:26:18,840 --> 00:26:20,480 Speaker 3: And that's a huge generalization. 512 00:26:20,520 --> 00:26:23,159 Speaker 1: I know it's not true for everyone, but many people 513 00:26:23,200 --> 00:26:26,920 Speaker 1: that I've spoken to have agreed that this is true. 514 00:26:27,080 --> 00:26:29,359 Speaker 1: So in my book, I have a lot of information. 515 00:26:29,440 --> 00:26:30,960 Speaker 1: I talk in kind of a narrative way about all 516 00:26:30,960 --> 00:26:33,920 Speaker 1: these different cultures and what happens. But what's equally important 517 00:26:33,960 --> 00:26:36,920 Speaker 1: is I have all these exercises and journal prompts helping 518 00:26:36,960 --> 00:26:39,480 Speaker 1: people exactly what you said. It is only your own 519 00:26:39,560 --> 00:26:41,440 Speaker 1: journey that takes you to that place. It has to 520 00:26:41,480 --> 00:26:44,040 Speaker 1: be your own belief and your own understanding, and it 521 00:26:44,119 --> 00:26:46,320 Speaker 1: has to come from within. And a lot of the 522 00:26:46,480 --> 00:26:49,480 Speaker 1: journal prompts and exercises are about stepping back from what 523 00:26:49,480 --> 00:26:51,640 Speaker 1: we're being brought up with and trying to question where 524 00:26:51,680 --> 00:26:53,600 Speaker 1: they came from. First of all, where did I get 525 00:26:53,640 --> 00:26:56,320 Speaker 1: these ideas about death and what was death like in 526 00:26:56,320 --> 00:26:58,520 Speaker 1: my family? Was I afraid of it? Et cetera, et cetera. 527 00:26:59,200 --> 00:27:01,520 Speaker 1: But then also doing a sought experiment that I think 528 00:27:01,600 --> 00:27:05,520 Speaker 1: is really interesting. Basically, if you look at mythology, and 529 00:27:05,560 --> 00:27:08,400 Speaker 1: this is something that I have done, i'd say almost 530 00:27:08,440 --> 00:27:12,160 Speaker 1: every mythology tells us that life goes on. There's very 531 00:27:12,280 --> 00:27:15,400 Speaker 1: very few mythologies that tell us that death is the end. 532 00:27:15,560 --> 00:27:17,600 Speaker 1: I haven't found any, but I don't know. Maybe there's 533 00:27:17,600 --> 00:27:20,800 Speaker 1: one out there. One of the thought experiments I provide is, 534 00:27:21,160 --> 00:27:24,080 Speaker 1: what are the odds that everyone in all of human 535 00:27:24,200 --> 00:27:27,840 Speaker 1: history was wrong and we in the last one hundred 536 00:27:27,960 --> 00:27:31,560 Speaker 1: and fifty years or so are right? And then if 537 00:27:31,560 --> 00:27:34,920 Speaker 1: that's so, has the world gotten better with those beliefs? 538 00:27:35,359 --> 00:27:37,320 Speaker 1: Does to think about it in that way, to step 539 00:27:37,359 --> 00:27:40,000 Speaker 1: back and to get out of our cultural context and 540 00:27:40,080 --> 00:27:42,600 Speaker 1: to think bigger and so just verify what you're saying. 541 00:27:43,160 --> 00:27:44,919 Speaker 1: The other thing that I always like to say to 542 00:27:44,960 --> 00:27:47,320 Speaker 1: my students that I'm thinking of now that you're talking, 543 00:27:47,440 --> 00:27:50,280 Speaker 1: is that I get a lot of people skeptics in 544 00:27:50,359 --> 00:27:53,720 Speaker 1: my classes, and they're like, well, everyone knows it after 545 00:27:53,760 --> 00:27:56,280 Speaker 1: you die, that's it, nothing happens. Like, no, we actually 546 00:27:56,320 --> 00:28:00,440 Speaker 1: we don't know that. Nobody knows what happens after we die. 547 00:28:00,520 --> 00:28:04,119 Speaker 1: It's no fun And isn't that beautiful in a way 548 00:28:04,240 --> 00:28:06,679 Speaker 1: and amazing and hope inspiring as well? 549 00:28:06,840 --> 00:28:07,560 Speaker 3: We don't know. 550 00:28:07,720 --> 00:28:11,600 Speaker 1: It is a great human mystery, and as such, the 551 00:28:11,680 --> 00:28:15,440 Speaker 1: idea that it should be delegated as something taboo, something 552 00:28:15,520 --> 00:28:19,600 Speaker 1: thought of as morbid, is absurd. How could we not 553 00:28:19,800 --> 00:28:22,560 Speaker 1: be interested in the greatest human mystery that affects each 554 00:28:22,600 --> 00:28:25,480 Speaker 1: of us equally, that each of us will go through 555 00:28:25,520 --> 00:28:29,600 Speaker 1: this portal, this transition, this rite of passage into another reality. 556 00:28:29,600 --> 00:28:33,680 Speaker 1: Whatever that reality is. Nobody knows, and to me that's 557 00:28:34,080 --> 00:28:36,520 Speaker 1: beautiful as well. I know there's a lot of people 558 00:28:36,520 --> 00:28:38,280 Speaker 1: who kind of want to solve the mystery, and I 559 00:28:38,360 --> 00:28:43,240 Speaker 1: can totally understand that too, But personally, I love that 560 00:28:43,280 --> 00:28:46,800 Speaker 1: we don't know, and to me it means everything is possible. 561 00:28:47,760 --> 00:28:53,200 Speaker 3: What's nice is hearing your belief and understanding because you 562 00:28:53,280 --> 00:28:57,080 Speaker 3: didn't come to it like me in these twenty seven 563 00:28:57,160 --> 00:29:01,520 Speaker 3: years of investigating, an interview, doing and reading, and I've 564 00:29:01,560 --> 00:29:05,200 Speaker 3: had some mind blowing experiences too. You have, yes, but 565 00:29:05,280 --> 00:29:08,280 Speaker 3: you don't need that. I mean, you've seen death, you've 566 00:29:08,280 --> 00:29:11,200 Speaker 3: embraced it, you've studied it. And to come to the 567 00:29:11,320 --> 00:29:16,040 Speaker 3: same understanding that life matters. Yeah, and how are we 568 00:29:16,160 --> 00:29:20,320 Speaker 3: living it? I think is great. So I'm super happy 569 00:29:20,400 --> 00:29:21,480 Speaker 3: we are talking today. 570 00:29:21,720 --> 00:29:24,600 Speaker 1: Likewise, I also think there are many paths to this place. 571 00:29:24,720 --> 00:29:28,720 Speaker 1: You know, I think any genuine investigation that's about a 572 00:29:28,760 --> 00:29:31,360 Speaker 1: fear of death will bring you to this place, probably 573 00:29:31,480 --> 00:29:33,640 Speaker 1: if you've become obsessive like we did, right and just 574 00:29:33,680 --> 00:29:36,000 Speaker 1: like end up devoting your life to it because you 575 00:29:36,200 --> 00:29:39,720 Speaker 1: quickly realize that it's beyond our understanding. It really is 576 00:29:40,360 --> 00:29:42,520 Speaker 1: not in the realm of the rational mind. And something 577 00:29:42,520 --> 00:29:45,360 Speaker 1: we can understand that way just isn't Grief isn't either, right, 578 00:29:45,440 --> 00:29:48,640 Speaker 1: it doesn't make rational sense. There is a whole other 579 00:29:48,720 --> 00:29:51,760 Speaker 1: world beyond the rational that has value and meaning and 580 00:29:51,920 --> 00:29:54,880 Speaker 1: actually creates meaning for us in our lives. And without that, 581 00:29:55,600 --> 00:29:56,680 Speaker 1: life is intolerable. 582 00:29:57,320 --> 00:30:00,880 Speaker 3: It's true. And when you talk about beliefs, even us 583 00:30:00,920 --> 00:30:06,000 Speaker 3: believing that we're flesh and bone and blood sitting in 584 00:30:06,040 --> 00:30:11,000 Speaker 3: our homes one hundred and fifty years ago, could you 585 00:30:11,040 --> 00:30:16,959 Speaker 3: imagine if they introduced zoom and computers and wireless internet. No, 586 00:30:17,280 --> 00:30:21,000 Speaker 3: I mean that it would blow people's minds. It really would. 587 00:30:21,040 --> 00:30:23,400 Speaker 3: And then even everyone that looks at us on a 588 00:30:23,560 --> 00:30:29,360 Speaker 3: molecular level or quantum level, down to our tiniest bits, 589 00:30:29,480 --> 00:30:33,640 Speaker 3: we are just vibrating energy, invisible vibrating energy. Not to 590 00:30:33,920 --> 00:30:37,280 Speaker 3: mention Joanna, that we are hurling around the universe, the 591 00:30:37,320 --> 00:30:43,360 Speaker 3: ever expanding universe, on this ball called Earth. So questioning 592 00:30:44,320 --> 00:30:47,200 Speaker 3: beliefs and things. I love that. Could you tell us 593 00:30:47,200 --> 00:30:49,720 Speaker 3: a little bit more about Momento Moory and what's in it? 594 00:30:50,360 --> 00:30:53,240 Speaker 3: You shared some Maybe there's a little tool we can 595 00:30:53,320 --> 00:30:55,360 Speaker 3: use today that you could give us. So that's a 596 00:30:55,360 --> 00:30:56,760 Speaker 3: contemplate before we leave. 597 00:30:57,000 --> 00:30:59,360 Speaker 1: Well, the first thing I'll say, because I know what 598 00:30:59,400 --> 00:31:02,000 Speaker 1: your interests are, what the audience's interests are, is So 599 00:31:02,280 --> 00:31:04,800 Speaker 1: the book is organized in twelve different chapters that look 600 00:31:04,800 --> 00:31:07,280 Speaker 1: at death from different perspectives. So one is about what 601 00:31:07,400 --> 00:31:10,000 Speaker 1: is death, and one is about my mental moory, and 602 00:31:10,040 --> 00:31:12,200 Speaker 1: one is about what happens after we die. And so 603 00:31:12,200 --> 00:31:13,400 Speaker 1: that's the way I kind of want to talk a 604 00:31:13,440 --> 00:31:15,800 Speaker 1: little bit about because I do go into near death 605 00:31:15,840 --> 00:31:18,880 Speaker 1: experience and vertical near death experiences particular, and I just 606 00:31:18,920 --> 00:31:21,040 Speaker 1: want to say I agree with you looking at you 607 00:31:21,080 --> 00:31:23,920 Speaker 1: can't write it off and having just gone to this 608 00:31:24,000 --> 00:31:28,120 Speaker 1: parapsychological conference as well, these are very serious people trying 609 00:31:28,160 --> 00:31:30,440 Speaker 1: to find ways to prove this, and I have real 610 00:31:30,480 --> 00:31:33,960 Speaker 1: respect for what they're doing and the level of rigor 611 00:31:34,120 --> 00:31:36,160 Speaker 1: that they're bringing to their experiments. You know, they're not 612 00:31:36,240 --> 00:31:38,720 Speaker 1: messing around and they're trying to be really careful and 613 00:31:38,720 --> 00:31:42,160 Speaker 1: they're helping their colleagues like they're really really interested in 614 00:31:42,240 --> 00:31:44,600 Speaker 1: trying to figure this out in a scientific way. But 615 00:31:44,680 --> 00:31:46,440 Speaker 1: in that chapter, I talk about all the things that 616 00:31:46,480 --> 00:31:49,800 Speaker 1: we're talking about now, Basically the sense that in mythology, 617 00:31:50,440 --> 00:31:53,400 Speaker 1: life does not end. And also Carl Jung, So the 618 00:31:53,440 --> 00:31:56,000 Speaker 1: backtrack Carl Jung is another big part of this book. 619 00:31:56,040 --> 00:31:57,840 Speaker 1: So I don't know how much if any of Carl 620 00:31:57,920 --> 00:32:01,160 Speaker 1: Jung that you'ven investigated or but he was a big 621 00:32:01,200 --> 00:32:03,880 Speaker 1: part of my journey. So he's hard to read in 622 00:32:03,920 --> 00:32:07,440 Speaker 1: his own words, he's a very dense writer. There's a 623 00:32:07,480 --> 00:32:10,360 Speaker 1: great book if people out there are interested, called Man 624 00:32:10,400 --> 00:32:12,680 Speaker 1: and his Symbols, which is an edited volume, so it's 625 00:32:12,720 --> 00:32:15,560 Speaker 1: different people writing about some of his core concepts, and 626 00:32:15,600 --> 00:32:17,880 Speaker 1: we get the illustrated version that's got lots of images. 627 00:32:17,920 --> 00:32:19,800 Speaker 1: And for me that was my end. I need that, 628 00:32:20,280 --> 00:32:22,280 Speaker 1: and when I read it, of all the modern thinkers, 629 00:32:22,320 --> 00:32:25,280 Speaker 1: I know, he's the one who really bridges what we're 630 00:32:25,320 --> 00:32:28,280 Speaker 1: talking about with the past and is also looking at 631 00:32:28,280 --> 00:32:31,160 Speaker 1: death as something really important to think about. And what 632 00:32:31,240 --> 00:32:34,440 Speaker 1: he said to his analycens or his clients is that 633 00:32:34,480 --> 00:32:36,800 Speaker 1: it's important for each of us to develop our own myths, 634 00:32:36,840 --> 00:32:39,600 Speaker 1: our own belief and understanding about death. And it won't 635 00:32:39,640 --> 00:32:42,080 Speaker 1: do to have someone else's, as he said, it won't 636 00:32:42,080 --> 00:32:44,360 Speaker 1: do on your deathbed to think, Carl Jill thought this, 637 00:32:45,080 --> 00:32:47,240 Speaker 1: you have to have your own. We are born in 638 00:32:47,280 --> 00:32:49,440 Speaker 1: a time that unless you were born into a faith 639 00:32:49,920 --> 00:32:52,600 Speaker 1: that answers all your questions, and if so, God bless 640 00:32:52,600 --> 00:32:54,480 Speaker 1: you and you're very lucky. But I was not right. 641 00:32:54,840 --> 00:32:56,400 Speaker 1: So many of us are not and we have to 642 00:32:56,400 --> 00:32:58,360 Speaker 1: find our own truth. He would call it a miss 643 00:32:58,440 --> 00:33:00,760 Speaker 1: and myth does not mean it's not true to us. 644 00:33:01,120 --> 00:33:03,520 Speaker 1: It just means that it's a story that defines our 645 00:33:03,560 --> 00:33:06,120 Speaker 1: life and that we can't know one where the other 646 00:33:06,160 --> 00:33:08,040 Speaker 1: if it's true. And it doesn't matter, as he says, 647 00:33:08,160 --> 00:33:10,640 Speaker 1: whether it's capital t true or not does not matter. 648 00:33:10,880 --> 00:33:12,960 Speaker 1: What matters is that you believe it and that you 649 00:33:13,040 --> 00:33:15,480 Speaker 1: live into it and it provides you a bridge into 650 00:33:15,560 --> 00:33:18,360 Speaker 1: the next world. And one thing that Carl Jung pointed 651 00:33:18,360 --> 00:33:21,200 Speaker 1: out is that he had this contiv of archetype. So 652 00:33:21,320 --> 00:33:24,160 Speaker 1: archetypes are things that happen in every culture. So basically 653 00:33:24,480 --> 00:33:27,280 Speaker 1: the idea of giving birth would be an archetype, or 654 00:33:27,600 --> 00:33:31,320 Speaker 1: death is an archetype, or he said life death and 655 00:33:31,400 --> 00:33:34,600 Speaker 1: rebirth is also an archetype. This idea of these cycles 656 00:33:34,680 --> 00:33:37,240 Speaker 1: of life that we still see in the Hindu world, 657 00:33:37,280 --> 00:33:39,480 Speaker 1: and some people in Mexico talk about it that way 658 00:33:39,520 --> 00:33:43,120 Speaker 1: as well, This idea that it's not a linear view 659 00:33:43,160 --> 00:33:45,720 Speaker 1: of time where there's an end in the beginning, but 660 00:33:45,840 --> 00:33:48,240 Speaker 1: rather these cycles. And of course that's what we see 661 00:33:48,240 --> 00:33:50,680 Speaker 1: in the natural world, right we see the butterfly, the 662 00:33:50,680 --> 00:33:54,520 Speaker 1: caterpillar become a butterfly. We see the plants bloom and 663 00:33:54,560 --> 00:33:57,280 Speaker 1: then go fallow in the winter or in the dry season, 664 00:33:57,320 --> 00:33:59,480 Speaker 1: depending on where you are, and then rebloom. And so 665 00:34:00,120 --> 00:34:04,160 Speaker 1: this idea of life, death, rebirth rather than death being 666 00:34:04,200 --> 00:34:07,440 Speaker 1: an end, which is really a materialist, scientific conception that 667 00:34:07,480 --> 00:34:11,919 Speaker 1: didn't emerge for most people until the last couple hundred years. Right, 668 00:34:12,320 --> 00:34:15,200 Speaker 1: So I think that's one thing that's a really big 669 00:34:15,239 --> 00:34:17,960 Speaker 1: takeaway that I'm really trying to encourage people through the book. 670 00:34:18,320 --> 00:34:20,520 Speaker 1: So through this twelve week process, and it is very 671 00:34:20,600 --> 00:34:23,240 Speaker 1: much a process. There is texts, so in each chapter 672 00:34:23,280 --> 00:34:26,040 Speaker 1: has text that kind of talks about death at whatever 673 00:34:26,160 --> 00:34:28,200 Speaker 1: angle I'm talking about it in that chapter, in different 674 00:34:28,200 --> 00:34:31,560 Speaker 1: times and places. And also some personal anecdotes, stories that 675 00:34:31,640 --> 00:34:34,560 Speaker 1: I share for my own life about my experiences with 676 00:34:34,600 --> 00:34:38,399 Speaker 1: these things. But then again ending with these exercises and 677 00:34:38,480 --> 00:34:41,959 Speaker 1: these journal prompts, the goal of which is to help 678 00:34:42,000 --> 00:34:44,600 Speaker 1: you on a transformative process where at the end you 679 00:34:44,719 --> 00:34:47,440 Speaker 1: end up with your own myth of death, your own 680 00:34:47,520 --> 00:34:50,000 Speaker 1: understanding of death, and maybe even your own image of death. 681 00:34:50,000 --> 00:34:53,319 Speaker 1: That I kind of offer this optional exercise of creating 682 00:34:53,360 --> 00:34:55,920 Speaker 1: your own momental morey, so, your own object that will 683 00:34:55,960 --> 00:34:58,200 Speaker 1: remind you of the brevity of life so that you 684 00:34:58,239 --> 00:35:00,560 Speaker 1: can live the life you really want. The book is 685 00:35:00,600 --> 00:35:03,440 Speaker 1: also trying to help you, giving people tools that I 686 00:35:03,480 --> 00:35:07,320 Speaker 1: have used in my own life of looking at death 687 00:35:07,440 --> 00:35:09,800 Speaker 1: in order to live the life I want. So, for example, 688 00:35:10,600 --> 00:35:13,719 Speaker 1: I hate flying very much, but I love travel every 689 00:35:13,800 --> 00:35:15,799 Speaker 1: much that I hate flying, I love travel, so I 690 00:35:15,920 --> 00:35:18,879 Speaker 1: fly all the time. And when I was in my adolescence, 691 00:35:18,960 --> 00:35:21,040 Speaker 1: I developed a little ritual that I've been doing ever 692 00:35:21,120 --> 00:35:23,319 Speaker 1: since where I would close my eyes when I got 693 00:35:23,320 --> 00:35:25,799 Speaker 1: on the plane and I would say, Okay, if I 694 00:35:25,880 --> 00:35:28,720 Speaker 1: die on this flight, what would I have done differently 695 00:35:28,760 --> 00:35:31,920 Speaker 1: with my life? And then that is the kind of 696 00:35:32,600 --> 00:35:36,080 Speaker 1: memento Moory that helps me and I think would help 697 00:35:36,120 --> 00:35:39,279 Speaker 1: any of us using our fear of death as a 698 00:35:39,320 --> 00:35:42,080 Speaker 1: way to make really clear what it is we want 699 00:35:42,120 --> 00:35:44,120 Speaker 1: to do with our time on earth that that makes sense. 700 00:35:44,560 --> 00:35:47,239 Speaker 1: And so I offer exercises like that to just ask 701 00:35:47,280 --> 00:35:50,520 Speaker 1: yourself instead of do I want to do this, say 702 00:35:50,760 --> 00:35:52,600 Speaker 1: what do I want to do with my time on Earth. 703 00:35:53,239 --> 00:35:56,480 Speaker 1: I think that changes it, right, Suddenly you understand what 704 00:35:56,520 --> 00:35:59,920 Speaker 1: it means. For example, moving to Mexico. After we moved here, 705 00:36:00,080 --> 00:36:02,759 Speaker 1: the Ukraine War broke out and my husband was really 706 00:36:02,840 --> 00:36:04,880 Speaker 1: freaked out and we had to talk and I said, okay, 707 00:36:05,160 --> 00:36:07,080 Speaker 1: would you be happy to die here? And he said yes, 708 00:36:07,280 --> 00:36:09,840 Speaker 1: said me too, and then you're okay. It's like going 709 00:36:09,920 --> 00:36:13,320 Speaker 1: straight to that helps you free yourself from the burden 710 00:36:13,360 --> 00:36:15,680 Speaker 1: and the fear of it, I think in my own experience, 711 00:36:16,160 --> 00:36:19,799 Speaker 1: and so I offer props and tools like that to 712 00:36:19,880 --> 00:36:24,040 Speaker 1: help people use a confrontation with death to figure out 713 00:36:24,040 --> 00:36:25,400 Speaker 1: what it is they really want to do with their 714 00:36:25,440 --> 00:36:27,120 Speaker 1: time on Earth. I think it's hard to figure that 715 00:36:27,160 --> 00:36:29,720 Speaker 1: out with there's so much advertising and so much stuff 716 00:36:29,760 --> 00:36:32,320 Speaker 1: that's being thrown at us. That is, you know, acting 717 00:36:32,360 --> 00:36:34,440 Speaker 1: as if it will answer our life questions. But when 718 00:36:34,480 --> 00:36:37,400 Speaker 1: you start asking yourself the bigger questions and saying, well, 719 00:36:37,440 --> 00:36:39,080 Speaker 1: what do I want to do with my time on earth? 720 00:36:39,800 --> 00:36:42,880 Speaker 1: Suddenly everything falls into place and it's much more clear. 721 00:36:43,560 --> 00:36:45,960 Speaker 1: And so that's where I see the value in contemplating 722 00:36:45,960 --> 00:36:48,319 Speaker 1: death in order to live the life you want, so 723 00:36:48,360 --> 00:36:50,400 Speaker 1: we don't die with deathbed regrets. 724 00:36:50,520 --> 00:36:55,319 Speaker 3: Right, exactly what does momento Maury actually mean is? Yeah, 725 00:36:55,440 --> 00:36:55,839 Speaker 3: it is. 726 00:36:55,920 --> 00:36:58,960 Speaker 1: It's Latin for remember you will die. It was a 727 00:36:58,960 --> 00:37:01,200 Speaker 1: phrase they use back then, just like in the Roman 728 00:37:01,280 --> 00:37:04,200 Speaker 1: Wells use the term carpe dam, which many will remember, right, 729 00:37:04,520 --> 00:37:06,400 Speaker 1: So carpe dam means the is the day? And I 730 00:37:06,400 --> 00:37:09,440 Speaker 1: think my mentormory in the Roman times were meant to 731 00:37:09,480 --> 00:37:11,640 Speaker 1: go with the idea of carpe dm. It wasn't about 732 00:37:12,160 --> 00:37:14,759 Speaker 1: living a Christian life, right, it was about eat, drink 733 00:37:14,800 --> 00:37:16,520 Speaker 1: and be merry for tomorrow you will die. 734 00:37:16,840 --> 00:37:18,600 Speaker 3: But I think this idea. 735 00:37:18,320 --> 00:37:20,959 Speaker 1: Of remember you will die can mean whatever we want 736 00:37:20,960 --> 00:37:22,920 Speaker 1: it to mean for us. You know, it doesn't have 737 00:37:23,000 --> 00:37:25,120 Speaker 1: to be a Christian concept. It doesn't have to be 738 00:37:25,200 --> 00:37:26,080 Speaker 1: a Roman concept. 739 00:37:26,120 --> 00:37:26,839 Speaker 3: But what is. 740 00:37:26,760 --> 00:37:29,960 Speaker 1: It for us? That is a life well lived? And 741 00:37:30,000 --> 00:37:31,920 Speaker 1: a lot of my exercises are aimed at trying to 742 00:37:32,040 --> 00:37:33,239 Speaker 1: kind of ascertain that. 743 00:37:33,360 --> 00:37:36,200 Speaker 3: As well. As we head off to the break, I 744 00:37:36,239 --> 00:37:38,920 Speaker 3: want to leave you with a question. Do you know 745 00:37:39,040 --> 00:37:43,120 Speaker 3: why we call the room in our house the living room? 746 00:37:45,320 --> 00:37:48,240 Speaker 3: Ponder that and you'll hear the answer when we get back. 747 00:37:48,760 --> 00:37:52,720 Speaker 3: You're listening to Shades of the Afterlife on the iHeartRadio 748 00:37:52,960 --> 00:38:16,680 Speaker 3: and Coast to Coast AM Paranormal Podcast Network. Welcome back 749 00:38:16,719 --> 00:38:20,080 Speaker 3: to Shades of the Afterlife. I'm Sandras Champlain and we're 750 00:38:20,120 --> 00:38:24,080 Speaker 3: here with Joanna Evanstein. And I asked her what memento 751 00:38:24,280 --> 00:38:27,880 Speaker 3: Maury means and is it Latin? It is. It's Latin 752 00:38:27,960 --> 00:38:29,320 Speaker 3: for remember you will die. 753 00:38:30,040 --> 00:38:32,080 Speaker 1: It was a phrase they used back then, just like 754 00:38:32,160 --> 00:38:34,439 Speaker 1: in the Roman they'll use the term carpe dam, which 755 00:38:34,480 --> 00:38:37,560 Speaker 1: many will remember, right, So carpe dam means theese the day. 756 00:38:37,600 --> 00:38:39,720 Speaker 1: And I think my mentor Maury in the Roman times 757 00:38:39,760 --> 00:38:42,319 Speaker 1: were meant to go with the idea of carpe dam. 758 00:38:42,360 --> 00:38:45,319 Speaker 1: It wasn't about living a Christian life, right, it was 759 00:38:45,320 --> 00:38:47,920 Speaker 1: about eat, drink and be married for tomorrow you will die. 760 00:38:48,239 --> 00:38:49,879 Speaker 3: But I think this idea of. 761 00:38:49,920 --> 00:38:52,440 Speaker 1: Remember you will die can mean whatever we want it 762 00:38:52,520 --> 00:38:54,480 Speaker 1: to mean for us. You know, it doesn't have to 763 00:38:54,480 --> 00:38:56,640 Speaker 1: be a Christian concept, It doesn't have to be a 764 00:38:56,719 --> 00:38:57,480 Speaker 1: Roman concept. 765 00:38:57,520 --> 00:39:00,719 Speaker 3: But what is it for us? That is a life 766 00:39:00,719 --> 00:39:01,240 Speaker 3: well lived? 767 00:39:01,280 --> 00:39:03,200 Speaker 1: And a lot of my exercises are aimed at trying 768 00:39:03,200 --> 00:39:06,080 Speaker 1: to kind of ascertain that as well. 769 00:39:06,160 --> 00:39:09,480 Speaker 3: I was thinking too back in the day here in 770 00:39:09,520 --> 00:39:13,960 Speaker 3: the United States they call it the living room the parlor, right, 771 00:39:15,000 --> 00:39:17,560 Speaker 3: And then people would die and they go view them 772 00:39:17,600 --> 00:39:23,080 Speaker 3: in the parlor, if I'm right. Once funeral parlors happened 773 00:39:23,120 --> 00:39:26,799 Speaker 3: and taking death outside of the home, the word was 774 00:39:26,880 --> 00:39:28,839 Speaker 3: changed to living room. 775 00:39:29,120 --> 00:39:31,400 Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, that's one of my favorite anecdotes, and that 776 00:39:31,719 --> 00:39:35,200 Speaker 1: this was spearhead at least impart by a women's magazine 777 00:39:35,200 --> 00:39:37,160 Speaker 1: who in an article in like nineteen oh six or 778 00:39:37,239 --> 00:39:40,120 Speaker 1: nineteen oh seven, basically wrote this article saying, Hey, now 779 00:39:40,160 --> 00:39:42,120 Speaker 1: we have this new room. It's for the living, it's 780 00:39:42,120 --> 00:39:44,799 Speaker 1: no longer for the dead. So very specifically, what you're 781 00:39:44,800 --> 00:39:47,280 Speaker 1: talking about, what I'm. 782 00:39:47,120 --> 00:39:50,840 Speaker 3: Really left with, and I think our listeners maybe as well, 783 00:39:51,600 --> 00:39:55,960 Speaker 3: is to not make ourselves wrong for having a fear 784 00:39:56,040 --> 00:40:00,640 Speaker 3: of death, because, like you said, you know, for all 785 00:40:00,680 --> 00:40:05,440 Speaker 3: of humanity, right, people believed in the afterlife that we 786 00:40:05,520 --> 00:40:09,040 Speaker 3: go on. I mean, you can tell from the Egyptians 787 00:40:09,200 --> 00:40:11,680 Speaker 3: all those wonderful things that were buried in the tombs. 788 00:40:12,239 --> 00:40:15,600 Speaker 3: So people believed, and so we were born into a 789 00:40:15,719 --> 00:40:21,280 Speaker 3: time where for most of us death has been kept secret. Yes, 790 00:40:21,560 --> 00:40:25,680 Speaker 3: seniors go to often an old age home, whereas a 791 00:40:25,719 --> 00:40:29,080 Speaker 3: lot of places in the world embrace having their elders 792 00:40:29,120 --> 00:40:31,920 Speaker 3: with them for the love and wisdom of family, right, 793 00:40:32,000 --> 00:40:36,440 Speaker 3: So that's normal, and to not make ourselves wrong that 794 00:40:36,480 --> 00:40:40,480 Speaker 3: we are living in a time that this is occurring 795 00:40:40,520 --> 00:40:43,359 Speaker 3: to us. But start questioning, and I don't know what 796 00:40:43,360 --> 00:40:46,480 Speaker 3: it is about us modern day people, but why we 797 00:40:46,560 --> 00:40:49,840 Speaker 3: feel we're so much smarter now people that lived hundreds 798 00:40:49,840 --> 00:40:50,439 Speaker 3: of years ago. 799 00:40:50,680 --> 00:40:54,880 Speaker 1: I know, Chris, I don't know. It's the scientific mindset. 800 00:40:54,920 --> 00:40:59,280 Speaker 1: I feel like the material of scientific mindset has a superiority. 801 00:40:59,440 --> 00:41:02,240 Speaker 1: And once tell us that we're very different from people 802 00:41:02,239 --> 00:41:04,560 Speaker 1: in the past, but I don't believe that's true. I 803 00:41:04,600 --> 00:41:06,600 Speaker 1: know what you mean, and yeah, I just want to 804 00:41:06,600 --> 00:41:09,440 Speaker 1: reiterate what you say. I think we happen to be 805 00:41:09,520 --> 00:41:11,440 Speaker 1: born into a time and a place that doesn't offer 806 00:41:11,560 --> 00:41:15,200 Speaker 1: us any tools for coping with this thing that we're 807 00:41:15,200 --> 00:41:17,360 Speaker 1: all coping with, not only our own death, but the 808 00:41:17,440 --> 00:41:19,640 Speaker 1: loss of our loved ones, right, Like this is part 809 00:41:19,680 --> 00:41:21,839 Speaker 1: of love, is to lose. That's just the way it 810 00:41:21,880 --> 00:41:25,000 Speaker 1: is when death is part of the picture and our 811 00:41:25,040 --> 00:41:28,200 Speaker 1: culture offers us nothing. You know, if if you've or 812 00:41:28,239 --> 00:41:30,799 Speaker 1: not from a religious tradition, which many of us no 813 00:41:30,880 --> 00:41:33,279 Speaker 1: longer are, or that tradition doesn't answer our questions. So 814 00:41:34,080 --> 00:41:36,600 Speaker 1: I feel like the fear of death is not something 815 00:41:36,600 --> 00:41:38,719 Speaker 1: you should beat yourself up about it is part of 816 00:41:38,840 --> 00:41:41,160 Speaker 1: being born in this time when we're given very little answers. 817 00:41:41,160 --> 00:41:44,040 Speaker 1: And as you said, it's also hidden from view, which 818 00:41:44,080 --> 00:41:47,399 Speaker 1: just makes it more frightening psychologically speaking, Right, you can push, push, 819 00:41:47,480 --> 00:41:50,799 Speaker 1: push down something that's real, but it doesn't mean it 820 00:41:50,840 --> 00:41:53,000 Speaker 1: goes away. It just means it's like in the back 821 00:41:53,000 --> 00:41:55,480 Speaker 1: of your mind where it's even more frightening because you 822 00:41:55,680 --> 00:41:57,640 Speaker 1: haven't looked at it properly. And that's another thing I'm 823 00:41:57,680 --> 00:41:59,920 Speaker 1: trying to do in this book is get people to 824 00:42:00,040 --> 00:42:01,920 Speaker 1: really right about well, what are you afraid of? Look 825 00:42:01,960 --> 00:42:03,560 Speaker 1: it in the eye and think about it and talk 826 00:42:03,560 --> 00:42:07,759 Speaker 1: about it, so it's not unconscious anymore, so it's conscious. 827 00:42:07,840 --> 00:42:10,400 Speaker 1: And then I think once you start bringing it to consciousness, 828 00:42:11,080 --> 00:42:13,960 Speaker 1: you have a possibility of making a relationship with it, 829 00:42:14,000 --> 00:42:15,040 Speaker 1: but not until. 830 00:42:14,760 --> 00:42:18,680 Speaker 3: You do right. Yeah. Absolutely, And I think for homework 831 00:42:18,719 --> 00:42:21,040 Speaker 3: that I'm going to take for this episode is just 832 00:42:21,080 --> 00:42:22,680 Speaker 3: to do a little practice when I go to bed 833 00:42:22,680 --> 00:42:25,279 Speaker 3: at night, just like you get on an airplane. If 834 00:42:25,320 --> 00:42:27,840 Speaker 3: this was going to be the end, yeah, I accomplish 835 00:42:27,920 --> 00:42:30,600 Speaker 3: what I wanted to do. What's missing, what's left out? There's 836 00:42:30,640 --> 00:42:35,200 Speaker 3: something about us human beings that whatever we get used 837 00:42:35,280 --> 00:42:38,799 Speaker 3: to just becomes normal. So sometimes the things that we 838 00:42:38,800 --> 00:42:41,279 Speaker 3: were once worried about start doing them and they've just 839 00:42:41,320 --> 00:42:45,040 Speaker 3: become regular. Even me studying the afterlife and witnessing some 840 00:42:45,120 --> 00:42:48,920 Speaker 3: mind blowing things, Oh, they've just become regular. Right, So 841 00:42:49,120 --> 00:42:51,479 Speaker 3: to do a practice that maybe you're afraid of, maybe 842 00:42:51,520 --> 00:42:53,640 Speaker 3: you're afraid of looking at death and if it was 843 00:42:53,719 --> 00:42:56,120 Speaker 3: really the end, so maybe night want to be like, 844 00:42:56,239 --> 00:42:59,080 Speaker 3: oh do I really want to do this? But night too, 845 00:42:59,160 --> 00:43:02,000 Speaker 3: it's like, h yeah, I'm going to have this night three. 846 00:43:02,120 --> 00:43:04,440 Speaker 3: We make it the practice, and then I think what'll 847 00:43:04,480 --> 00:43:07,279 Speaker 3: happen is it becomes normal. You know, maybe what am 848 00:43:07,320 --> 00:43:11,279 Speaker 3: I grateful for today? And if this was my last day, 849 00:43:12,120 --> 00:43:15,479 Speaker 3: what I miss? Yeah, and I can talk to something. 850 00:43:15,600 --> 00:43:17,480 Speaker 3: But I think that's a great combination too. 851 00:43:17,560 --> 00:43:19,239 Speaker 1: And I think, you know, that's another thing that I 852 00:43:19,280 --> 00:43:22,479 Speaker 1: really recommend people do, is to exactly what you're saying, 853 00:43:22,520 --> 00:43:24,960 Speaker 1: think about what you're grateful for. That's what I do 854 00:43:25,080 --> 00:43:27,239 Speaker 1: every night when I'm falling asleep, And even that just 855 00:43:27,280 --> 00:43:30,880 Speaker 1: starts to shift your sense of how you are in 856 00:43:30,920 --> 00:43:33,560 Speaker 1: the world and makes you grateful for these things, for 857 00:43:33,640 --> 00:43:35,879 Speaker 1: the life that you have as it is right now, right, 858 00:43:36,320 --> 00:43:38,440 Speaker 1: rather than all the things that you could focus on 859 00:43:38,480 --> 00:43:40,360 Speaker 1: about where it's not exactly where you want it to be. 860 00:43:40,440 --> 00:43:42,160 Speaker 1: Of course we can all do that, but I think 861 00:43:42,160 --> 00:43:43,480 Speaker 1: it is it's like a habit of mind. 862 00:43:43,520 --> 00:43:45,240 Speaker 3: It's like an exercise, a practice. 863 00:43:45,280 --> 00:43:46,960 Speaker 1: And I think this is where the Buddhists have so 864 00:43:47,040 --> 00:43:49,360 Speaker 1: much to teach us as well. Like I'm not a Buddhist, 865 00:43:49,400 --> 00:43:53,520 Speaker 1: but I think so many of their practices are so practical, 866 00:43:53,600 --> 00:43:56,719 Speaker 1: and they're about these things. They're basically saying, well, you know, 867 00:43:56,760 --> 00:43:59,239 Speaker 1: I think the Christians create a world in which we 868 00:43:59,320 --> 00:44:02,680 Speaker 1: demonize all these bad thoughts in ourselves and think they're 869 00:44:02,719 --> 00:44:04,799 Speaker 1: bad and it makes us bad. Where the Buddhists are like, 870 00:44:05,160 --> 00:44:08,040 Speaker 1: all humans have those thoughts. Here are some practices to 871 00:44:08,120 --> 00:44:11,400 Speaker 1: help you accentuate the good ones and give less energy 872 00:44:11,440 --> 00:44:14,040 Speaker 1: to the bad ones. And I really really appreciate that. 873 00:44:14,080 --> 00:44:17,920 Speaker 1: And I think their practices of thinking about gratitude is 874 00:44:17,960 --> 00:44:20,799 Speaker 1: the flip side of regret, right It's like, what do 875 00:44:20,880 --> 00:44:23,399 Speaker 1: I appreciate and what would I regret? Both are really 876 00:44:23,480 --> 00:44:26,839 Speaker 1: great ways to help you live the life you really 877 00:44:26,880 --> 00:44:27,560 Speaker 1: want right now. 878 00:44:28,000 --> 00:44:30,759 Speaker 3: I love it. And as human beings, we're not designed 879 00:44:30,800 --> 00:44:33,840 Speaker 3: to think about gratitude all the time. It's usually what's 880 00:44:34,040 --> 00:44:38,040 Speaker 3: left undone, unsaid, still have to do what's on the horizon. 881 00:44:38,200 --> 00:44:40,640 Speaker 3: It's just part of being human. That's how it works. 882 00:44:40,880 --> 00:44:43,400 Speaker 3: You've referred to students and classes and things. Can you 883 00:44:43,440 --> 00:44:45,640 Speaker 3: tell us a little bit more about what you offer, 884 00:44:45,760 --> 00:44:48,520 Speaker 3: what we'll find on your website, Yeah, et cetera. 885 00:44:48,920 --> 00:44:51,879 Speaker 1: So I've been doing a project called Morbid Anatomy since 886 00:44:51,920 --> 00:44:54,480 Speaker 1: two thousand and seven. It started as a blog. It 887 00:44:54,520 --> 00:44:56,560 Speaker 1: was a support for a photo exhibition I was doing 888 00:44:56,600 --> 00:44:59,919 Speaker 1: about medical museums, so objects that combine beauty and desk 889 00:45:00,040 --> 00:45:03,360 Speaker 1: that you see in these scientific medical museums. And it 890 00:45:03,440 --> 00:45:05,640 Speaker 1: had a life of its own, and it has since evolved. 891 00:45:05,680 --> 00:45:07,239 Speaker 1: For a while it was a museum and now it 892 00:45:07,320 --> 00:45:10,080 Speaker 1: is a mostly online project, though we do have an 893 00:45:10,120 --> 00:45:12,680 Speaker 1: open to the public research library in Brooklyn, New York. 894 00:45:12,760 --> 00:45:15,440 Speaker 1: If you have any listeners there. It's open every weekend 895 00:45:15,440 --> 00:45:17,000 Speaker 1: from twelve to five free of charge. 896 00:45:17,040 --> 00:45:17,520 Speaker 3: You can go in. 897 00:45:17,600 --> 00:45:20,040 Speaker 1: You can read books about the topics we're talking about. 898 00:45:20,280 --> 00:45:21,840 Speaker 3: Lots of stuff on spiritualism in. 899 00:45:21,840 --> 00:45:25,480 Speaker 1: The afterlife, and Carl Jung and death and art and 900 00:45:25,520 --> 00:45:27,680 Speaker 1: culture in different places in the world, and all sorts 901 00:45:27,680 --> 00:45:30,440 Speaker 1: of things, and also objects I've collected around these ideas 902 00:45:30,920 --> 00:45:35,080 Speaker 1: and online we offer many, many classes with teachers around 903 00:45:35,080 --> 00:45:37,759 Speaker 1: the world, many of which revolve around death and mortality, 904 00:45:37,880 --> 00:45:39,360 Speaker 1: but not all of them. We have a lot of 905 00:45:39,440 --> 00:45:42,280 Speaker 1: different topics. Now I will be teaching a class based 906 00:45:42,320 --> 00:45:45,000 Speaker 1: on the momentum more books. That's also available, And this 907 00:45:45,040 --> 00:45:48,160 Speaker 1: is on our website it's Morbid Anatomy dot org and 908 00:45:48,360 --> 00:45:50,920 Speaker 1: lectures every Monday night, and we have a Patreon that 909 00:45:51,000 --> 00:45:53,839 Speaker 1: has lots of articles and all the videos that we've 910 00:45:53,880 --> 00:45:56,320 Speaker 1: been archiving since we started doing online lectures. 911 00:45:56,600 --> 00:45:57,120 Speaker 3: It's fun. 912 00:45:57,160 --> 00:45:59,800 Speaker 1: It's someone called it morbid YouTube, which I really like. 913 00:46:00,719 --> 00:46:04,400 Speaker 3: My goodness talk about really reframing what we think about 914 00:46:04,560 --> 00:46:06,879 Speaker 3: death and bringing it to lights. 915 00:46:07,440 --> 00:46:09,640 Speaker 1: And there's no it's heavy, and I will say it 916 00:46:09,680 --> 00:46:11,600 Speaker 1: is heavy, but I will say one thing that I 917 00:46:11,600 --> 00:46:14,000 Speaker 1: find very heartening is that I've been doing more of 918 00:46:14,000 --> 00:46:16,279 Speaker 1: anatomy for a long time, but it was really with 919 00:46:16,560 --> 00:46:19,760 Speaker 1: COVID that the audience began to expand. 920 00:46:19,880 --> 00:46:21,320 Speaker 3: And part of that is because yes. 921 00:46:21,160 --> 00:46:23,520 Speaker 1: We had zoom and we could do things online. But 922 00:46:23,640 --> 00:46:26,479 Speaker 1: also I think COVID made a lot of us start 923 00:46:26,560 --> 00:46:30,160 Speaker 1: thinking about death who hadn't wanted to or been confronted 924 00:46:30,160 --> 00:46:33,719 Speaker 1: with it before. And what morbid anatomy offers is a 925 00:46:33,760 --> 00:46:38,759 Speaker 1: way to investigate this idea with curiosity and with like 926 00:46:38,840 --> 00:46:41,960 Speaker 1: minded people and with compassion. It is scholarly in the 927 00:46:42,000 --> 00:46:45,200 Speaker 1: sense that there's rigor, but it's also very accessible and 928 00:46:45,280 --> 00:46:47,600 Speaker 1: very engaging and very fun. I think all of our 929 00:46:47,640 --> 00:46:50,799 Speaker 1: teachers kind of share this ability to really speak to 930 00:46:50,840 --> 00:46:54,600 Speaker 1: a popular audience and share this curiosity about this great 931 00:46:54,640 --> 00:46:55,560 Speaker 1: mystery of our life. 932 00:46:56,040 --> 00:46:58,200 Speaker 3: It sounds great, it really does. And I just think 933 00:46:58,280 --> 00:47:00,600 Speaker 3: if we look at death a little different and not 934 00:47:01,320 --> 00:47:05,200 Speaker 3: blame ourselves for the culture we were born into, not 935 00:47:05,239 --> 00:47:07,720 Speaker 3: only can we live a different kind of life, Joanna, 936 00:47:07,880 --> 00:47:11,920 Speaker 3: but it is my belief that when we get death 937 00:47:12,040 --> 00:47:17,439 Speaker 3: handled for ourselves, not only does life seem to make 938 00:47:17,520 --> 00:47:20,960 Speaker 3: sense and we can be grateful for what we have 939 00:47:21,160 --> 00:47:24,279 Speaker 3: and things, but we can start pushing the envelope as 940 00:47:24,320 --> 00:47:27,719 Speaker 3: to what's possible and we can really dig deep into 941 00:47:28,120 --> 00:47:30,560 Speaker 3: who am I really and what is my life for? 942 00:47:31,000 --> 00:47:34,279 Speaker 3: And also just thinking that many years ago, when you 943 00:47:34,360 --> 00:47:37,760 Speaker 3: talk about, you know, hundreds or thousands of years ago, 944 00:47:38,200 --> 00:47:43,080 Speaker 3: people were very spiritual. People would tap into their inner wisdom, 945 00:47:43,200 --> 00:47:46,960 Speaker 3: and I do know we are all these intuitive creatures 946 00:47:47,040 --> 00:47:50,440 Speaker 3: were no different than the animals with their great instinct. 947 00:47:50,800 --> 00:47:53,560 Speaker 3: But with all the technology that we have and all 948 00:47:53,560 --> 00:47:57,279 Speaker 3: this busyness in our mind, we're not really tapping into 949 00:47:57,320 --> 00:48:01,360 Speaker 3: who we are. So there is much more to explore 950 00:48:01,600 --> 00:48:04,880 Speaker 3: once we take a look at maybe what we're fearful 951 00:48:04,880 --> 00:48:07,360 Speaker 3: of and we make peace with death. Yeah. 952 00:48:07,480 --> 00:48:10,680 Speaker 1: Absolutely, And as you said, as a way to live 953 00:48:10,719 --> 00:48:13,040 Speaker 1: the life we want, it's the best god there is 954 00:48:13,080 --> 00:48:15,439 Speaker 1: to live the life we want before it's too late. 955 00:48:15,520 --> 00:48:18,279 Speaker 1: It's a reminder that our time is limited and that's 956 00:48:18,320 --> 00:48:20,839 Speaker 1: not necessarily a terrible thing, you know, or at least 957 00:48:20,880 --> 00:48:22,680 Speaker 1: we can look at it through a lens in which 958 00:48:22,760 --> 00:48:25,280 Speaker 1: it's empowering as well as limiting. 959 00:48:25,360 --> 00:48:28,600 Speaker 3: Right. Yeah, Well, thank you so much. Is there anything 960 00:48:29,040 --> 00:48:30,680 Speaker 3: else you'd like to share while we have a few 961 00:48:30,680 --> 00:48:32,120 Speaker 3: minutes stick, No. 962 00:48:32,120 --> 00:48:33,960 Speaker 1: I just want to thank you for your time and 963 00:48:34,000 --> 00:48:37,800 Speaker 1: thank all of your listeners for your interests. And you know, definitely, 964 00:48:37,880 --> 00:48:40,480 Speaker 1: if death is something that you're looking to explore with 965 00:48:40,760 --> 00:48:44,319 Speaker 1: like minded, compassionate people and not feel like a big 966 00:48:44,360 --> 00:48:46,680 Speaker 1: weirdo in the world, morbid anatomy is the place for you. 967 00:48:46,880 --> 00:48:49,359 Speaker 1: It's a place in which we're all curious about death 968 00:48:49,400 --> 00:48:51,080 Speaker 1: and we don't have to pretend not to be. 969 00:48:51,880 --> 00:48:56,399 Speaker 3: That's morbid anatomy dot org. And I know you could 970 00:48:56,400 --> 00:48:59,120 Speaker 3: hear it in my voice, but that was a refreshing 971 00:48:59,200 --> 00:49:03,680 Speaker 3: conversation and it never dawned on me to question our 972 00:49:03,880 --> 00:49:07,680 Speaker 3: culture that we were raised in and for thousands of 973 00:49:07,800 --> 00:49:11,960 Speaker 3: years people believed in the afterlife, and now that death 974 00:49:12,200 --> 00:49:15,200 Speaker 3: is so hidden from our view, it can really do 975 00:49:15,280 --> 00:49:19,400 Speaker 3: a number on us, looking for evidence, looking for things 976 00:49:19,440 --> 00:49:23,680 Speaker 3: to believe in, but ultimately empowering us to live a 977 00:49:23,719 --> 00:49:26,960 Speaker 3: good life. And I mean it. We start every night 978 00:49:27,200 --> 00:49:30,200 Speaker 3: what am I grateful for? And looking at life if 979 00:49:30,200 --> 00:49:32,080 Speaker 3: this was my last day on earth? Did I do 980 00:49:32,160 --> 00:49:35,400 Speaker 3: everything I wanted to do and get comfortable with that? 981 00:49:36,080 --> 00:49:40,520 Speaker 3: I do believe we can live a very powerful life. 982 00:49:40,840 --> 00:49:43,839 Speaker 3: I'm excited in a weird way. I hope you are too. 983 00:49:44,280 --> 00:49:48,120 Speaker 3: Don't forget Come visit me at We Don't Die dot com. 984 00:49:48,600 --> 00:49:52,520 Speaker 3: Our Sunday gathering happens every Sunday, two pm New York Time. 985 00:49:52,880 --> 00:49:58,759 Speaker 3: Inspirational fun and a medium demonstration included. So are you 986 00:49:58,920 --> 00:50:04,480 Speaker 3: interested in create your own memento mori, something that reminds 987 00:50:04,520 --> 00:50:08,640 Speaker 3: you about your belief in the afterlife to live the 988 00:50:08,760 --> 00:50:13,359 Speaker 3: life you want. I'm Sandra Champlain. Thank you so much 989 00:50:13,440 --> 00:50:17,800 Speaker 3: for listening to Shades of the Afterlife on the iHeartRadio 990 00:50:18,200 --> 00:50:22,560 Speaker 3: and Coast to Coast am Paranormal podcast Network. 991 00:50:30,239 --> 00:50:32,759 Speaker 2: Thanks for listening to the iHeartRadio and Coast to Ghost 992 00:50:32,840 --> 00:50:35,799 Speaker 2: Day and Paranormal Podcast Network. Make sure and check out 993 00:50:35,880 --> 00:50:39,120 Speaker 2: all our shows on the iHeartRadio app or by going 994 00:50:39,160 --> 00:50:45,600 Speaker 2: to iHeartRadio dot com