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Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio News.

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Speaker 2: Welcome our Bloomberg Television and Radio audience as we continue

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Speaker 2: to discuss TikTok's future in America with the man who

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Speaker 2: wants to buy the US arm of the company. That's

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Speaker 2: Frank McCourt, junior founder of Project Liberty and executive chairman

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Speaker 2: of McCourt Global. It joins us. Now, Frank, really good

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Speaker 2: to get your perspective. You've made that formal bid for

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Speaker 2: TikTok through Project Liberty. Do you know yet of TikTok

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Speaker 2: is for sale?

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Speaker 3: Well, no, we're about to find out. And let's steal

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Speaker 3: a quick fly over here.

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Speaker 4: Where are we?

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Speaker 3: So? The Supreme Court ruled nine to zero that the

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Speaker 3: TikTok must be either shutdown or sold. They also, by

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Speaker 3: the way, we're very explicit about the national security threats

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Speaker 3: of TikTok as it's currently designed. And this is a

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Speaker 3: key point because the legislation that they upheld was very

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Speaker 3: clear that this is a national security threat. The Supreme

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Speaker 3: Court just validated that and reaffirmed that. So if it's sold,

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Speaker 3: because the choice is bann or sell. If it's sold,

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Speaker 3: whoever buys it has to fulfill the criteria that the

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Speaker 3: Supreme Court laid out. You need to disentangle the user

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Speaker 3: base and the data from the Chinese technology project. Liberty

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Speaker 3: has a clean tech stack to onboard the user base

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Speaker 3: and the data and meet the criteria laid out by

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Speaker 3: the Supreme Court.

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Speaker 2: Frank, do you have an I mean, I'm sure you

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Speaker 2: have an idea of how much you would pay for it,

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Speaker 2: but can you help me understand how you came to evaluation.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, well, you know it's worth something.

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Speaker 3: And on the other hand, we know what the you

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Speaker 3: know what the entire company is worth on the secondary market.

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Speaker 4: You know what people are selling shares for now, so

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Speaker 4: you have bookends.

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Speaker 3: And then we know that us TikTok is somewhere around

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Speaker 3: eight percent ten percent the entire platform, so you have

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Speaker 3: an ability there to be able to bookend or frame

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Speaker 3: the valuation. Of course, we've done extensive modeling to sharpen that. Now,

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Speaker 3: the one big if is what exactly are they selling?

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Speaker 3: Are they selling the brand or not? Which of the

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Speaker 3: assets are they selling? Of course, the user base and

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Speaker 3: the data are.

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Speaker 4: What's critical to us.

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Speaker 3: But what we know for sure is they're not selling

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Speaker 3: the algorithm, and that is key. If you come forward

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Speaker 3: with all the money in the world and say I'll

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Speaker 3: buy us TikTok, but I need the algorithm. You're not

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Speaker 3: going to get it because the legislation won't allow it.

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Speaker 3: And the Supreme Court upheld that legislation and said any

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Speaker 3: buyer must to be eligible, must not use or rely

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Speaker 3: on any of the Chinese technology that is really fundamental

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Speaker 3: to this transaction. So of course it's about the money,

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Speaker 3: but it's about having the technology to onboard the user

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Speaker 3: base and the data without relying on the Chinese technology.

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Speaker 1: Frank Roman here, I am curious though about China's involvement

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Speaker 1: in this. They obviously have a big say and whether

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Speaker 1: this gets sold and potentially who it gets sold to.

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Speaker 1: Are you worried at all about but your bid? I'm

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Speaker 1: specifically speaking about your potential bid for this company that

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Speaker 1: it would satisfy whatever China's looking for. And I don't know.

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Speaker 1: Do you know what China's looking for out of this?

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Speaker 4: Well?

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Speaker 3: I know what China is is for sure clear about

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Speaker 3: They're not letting the algorithm go, right. They've said this

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Speaker 3: is part of Chinese government property, part of the so

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Speaker 3: the IP is something that they have a white knuckle

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Speaker 3: grip on and by the way, clear and any buyer

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Speaker 3: is not going to get that anyway because the legislation

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Speaker 3: won't allow it. So I think the win here for

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Speaker 3: China is a buyer coming for that can comply with

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Speaker 3: what China has said they're not selling and make a

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Speaker 3: deal for what they might be willing to sell. And

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Speaker 3: Romayne will know shortly whether or not byte Edance is

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Speaker 3: going to change their mind now that they've exhausted their

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Speaker 3: legal remedies. And I've said from the beginning that the

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Speaker 3: government would win the case, the legislation would be upheld,

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Speaker 3: and when that happened, us TikTok would be for sale

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Speaker 3: without the algorithm.

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Speaker 4: So let's see.

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Speaker 3: We now know that the first of those is correct,

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Speaker 3: that the Supreme Court has upheld the government's position, and

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Speaker 3: will now see if by Dance changes its mind and

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Speaker 3: wants to enter into conversations about a deal. Why not

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Speaker 3: why not sell it for something rather than get nothing

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Speaker 3: and just shut it down.

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Speaker 1: So Frank, in terms of trying to put a value

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Speaker 1: on this, and I know it's going to take some

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Speaker 1: time to hear from those folks before you can put

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Speaker 1: a true value. Do you worry at all about potential

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Speaker 1: attrition of users that with all this talk about a ban,

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Speaker 1: there's been and a lot of anecdotal evidence of users

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Speaker 1: power users migrating to other social media platforms and anticipation

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Speaker 1: of a ban. Does that worry you at all that

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Speaker 1: you might be left with an asset that is just

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Speaker 1: seeing too many people flee.

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Speaker 4: Absolutely.

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Speaker 3: I think it's one of the big risks here, which

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Speaker 3: is why we're hoping that the app stays led up.

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Speaker 3: And by the way, President Biden and President elect Trump

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Speaker 3: have both said they want to see the applet up,

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Speaker 3: they don't want to see it banned. The key here

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Speaker 3: is in order for that to happen and the ninety

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Speaker 3: days to kick in, there needs to be a viable

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Speaker 3: buy There needs to be a deal, and for a

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Speaker 3: buyer to be viable, they need to have the technology

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Speaker 3: stack to move the user base in the data over

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Speaker 3: to without relying on the Chinese technology. So it's more

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Speaker 3: than your typical business deal. Highest bidder wins. This is

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Speaker 3: a complicated transaction and at the heart of it is

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Speaker 3: protecting American citizens. Our technology does that, and then putting

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Speaker 3: together putting forward a respectable bid for the US TikTok

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Speaker 3: assets without the Chinese technology.

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Speaker 2: Frank, there is a conversation that circulates that potentially TikTok

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Speaker 2: is getting wrapped into trade conversations when it comes to China.

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Speaker 2: Have you spoken to anyone in the Trump administration about this?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, we have, and you know, Kevin Olaria has joined

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Speaker 3: our bid and Kevin went tomorrow lago. We spoke to

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Speaker 3: President elect Trump, and President elect Trump encouraged us to

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Speaker 3: carry on. And I suspect that this this will be

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Speaker 3: a broader conversation that President elect Trump will have with

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Speaker 3: President she that said, we're still back to square one

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Speaker 3: about how do you buy us TikTok, keep it let up,

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Speaker 3: prevent a ban, and comply with the legislation and the

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Speaker 3: Supreme Court ruling.

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Speaker 4: And so I'm sure they'll be really and dealing going on,

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Speaker 4: and there always is.

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Speaker 3: But the point is there are some fundamental criteria necessary

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Speaker 3: to make the deal. And that's the key, and that's

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Speaker 3: where Project Liberty comes in. Because we've been building this

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Speaker 3: alternative tech stack for the last five years.

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Speaker 4: We're in the right place at the right time.

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Speaker 1: Frank, have you been in contact at all with the

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Speaker 1: Trump administration or the Trump transition.

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Speaker 3: Yes, as I just mentioned. You know, Kevin, who's my

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Speaker 3: partner on this, has gone Tomorrow logo with like two

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Speaker 3: weekends in a row now to be in touch with

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Speaker 3: all of the players there, the President elect himself and also.

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Speaker 4: His key team.

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Speaker 3: So we're we from the very outset here, wanted to

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Speaker 3: make sure that the Biden administration and the incoming Trump administration,

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Speaker 3: and of course both President Biden and President Elect Trump

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Speaker 3: knew exactly what we're up to it.

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Speaker 4: We don't want any surprises here. We want to help.

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Speaker 3: We want to be part of the solution to keep

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Speaker 3: TikTok lit up, avoid the band, and that's what President

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Speaker 3: Biden and President elect Trump want as well.

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Speaker 4: So let's make a deal. Let's get this done.

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Speaker 1: We have the solution, all right, Well, they're president elect

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Speaker 1: has said he needs time to review this. Of course,

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Speaker 1: he's inaugurated on Monday. Frank, We're going to catch up

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Speaker 1: with you sometime soon in the future once we get

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Speaker 1: more clarity on what the potential valuation could be. Frank

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Speaker 1: McCourt junior, the founder of Project Liberty and executive chairman

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Speaker 1: of McCourt Global, who has said that he would bid

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Speaker 1: for those us A TikTok assets along with Kevin O'Leary

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Speaker 1: and some other investors, should he be given the chance