Speaker 1: You're listening to In the Vets Office with doctor Josie Horchak.
Speaker 1: Welcome back to in the Vets Office everyone.
Speaker 2: I am your host, Doctor Josie, and this is an
Speaker 2: amazing week because we are joined once again by doctor Isabella.
Speaker 1: Hello. Hi.
Speaker 2: We had such great feedback on our previous episode that
Speaker 2: I figured we had to get you back into the
Speaker 2: Vets Office to do another episode.
Speaker 1: Yeah. I had a blast, so when you asked me
Speaker 1: to come back, I was ready to go. Really excited.
Speaker 2: I'm excited to We're actually filming today's episode in my
Speaker 2: basement because the iHeart Studio is moving right now, and
Speaker 2: so we're really leaning into the podcast from home. Moment
Speaker 2: we are in I'm in my slippers and pretty much
Speaker 2: my pajamas, yeah, leggings, hoody. Yeah, we're chilling and Sia's
Speaker 2: on her a little best next to me, and I
Speaker 2: don't know if I'll ever go back to podcasting from
Speaker 2: the studio after this. Just kidding, Morgan, our poor producer
Speaker 2: had to set up this whole thing, so we will
Speaker 2: in fact be going back to the studio, But until then,
Speaker 2: slippers and pj's for the win, all right, So we'll
Speaker 2: start our episode as always with with our case of
Speaker 2: the week, Doctor Isabella and I were putting our heads
Speaker 2: together thinking about some interesting cases we have seen, and
Speaker 2: we kept coming back to this one thing that we
Speaker 2: are noticing in practice. It's not so much a case,
Speaker 2: but it's more of an observation. Yeah, if we see
Speaker 2: it all the time, all the time, and it really
Speaker 2: makes my day. And we have found that when we
Speaker 2: walk into exam rooms, we are addressing the pets and
Speaker 2: speaking to them directly, and then the owners will respond
Speaker 2: as though they are the pet in like very silly voices.
Speaker 1: Yes, yes, all the time. And I don't know if
Speaker 1: every vet does this, but doctor Josie and I both
Speaker 1: agree like we are in there asking the pet, how
Speaker 1: are you? You look beautiful today? How's it going? And
Speaker 1: the owner inevitably will respond in some weird, high pitched voice,
Speaker 1: you said you have some like I do, certain accents.
Speaker 2: I had an older lady that was convinced her shit
Speaker 2: so you had a lisp, so she'd like, doctor Josie.
Speaker 1: I'm not feeling so well today. I'm telling me hers,
Speaker 1: I'm feeling thick.
Speaker 2: Like she would talk to me as though she was
Speaker 2: her dog with a lip and it was amazing, doesn't
Speaker 2: You're a brother in law.
Speaker 1: Yes, and we keep bringing up poor Ryan on these podcasts.
Speaker 1: But Ryan, he's an attractive guy, yes, and he is
Speaker 1: always the one who brings the cats into their vat.
Speaker 1: My sister said she gets embarrassed every time because they'll
Speaker 1: ask how their cat is doing, and Ryan will inevitably say, oh,
Speaker 1: you know, he's doing okay, just throwing up sometimes, but
Speaker 1: other than that, I'm good not throwing up. Throwing throwing up.
Speaker 2: People really lean into it, oh, because I narrate my
Speaker 2: animals at home, like they teach you, have their own
Speaker 2: voices all the time.
Speaker 1: And I just think that people.
Speaker 2: Don't like they don't do that out in public often,
Speaker 2: but we get to see that side of them.
Speaker 1: Yes, and it's amazing. It'll be a big burly man
Speaker 1: with a tiny little Yorky or you know, some like
Speaker 1: young attractive person and it's just fun to watch people
Speaker 1: let their guards down and be funny.
Speaker 2: I do have an older gentleman who brings in his
Speaker 2: Persian cat. And Persian cats, for those of you that
Speaker 2: don't know, have those like smushed faces and they're like
Speaker 2: have a permanent frown on their face and he speaks,
Speaker 2: He narrates her as though she's.
Speaker 1: An an old British lady. Nick Hello, doctor Josie, I ate.
Speaker 2: Three kibble this week, like he talks to me the
Speaker 2: whole time as though he's the cat, but in a
Speaker 2: in a British accent. It's amazing, And I respond. I
Speaker 2: do too, respond as if we're having a normal conversation.
Speaker 1: Back and forth.
Speaker 2: I always say, our job is very weird, sometimes very
Speaker 2: some funny thing.
Speaker 1: We're not afraid to let people see our side. For sure.
Speaker 2: You've got to let your freak flag fly and that
Speaker 2: med you know, and I tell people it's a judge
Speaker 2: free zonees.
Speaker 1: Yes, so you whatever, you be vulnerable. You talk to
Speaker 1: your pets. However, you need to show us pictures of
Speaker 1: poop vomit, and we no judgment whatsoever. We've seen it.
Speaker 2: All, yes, exactly. All right, Well we'll dive into our
Speaker 2: listener questions. First up, at.
Speaker 1: What point in a dog's life do you transition them
Speaker 1: from regular food to senior food.
Speaker 2: That's a great question. I and doctor Isabella, you can
Speaker 2: tell you what you do. So I don't know that
Speaker 2: there is an exact time where it's like you need
Speaker 2: to get off adult food and onto senior food. But
Speaker 2: I do sort of have like a time frame where
Speaker 2: I think dogs and cats move from regular adulthood into
Speaker 2: senior hood. Dogs, I would say a rough age of seven.
Speaker 1: To eight years old.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And you were saying if they're really small, we
Speaker 2: probably can push that back a little.
Speaker 1: Bit, right. It totally depends on the size of the
Speaker 1: pet times. The small breed dogs a little Yorkis toy poodles,
Speaker 1: they can live easily until sixteen seventeen years old, So
Speaker 1: senior for them is going to look a little bit
Speaker 1: different than senior for the great Dane like you had,
Speaker 1: who Senior for them is probably five five six. Yeah,
Speaker 1: i'd say like.
Speaker 2: As an overall general rule, though like most dogs, we
Speaker 2: start to look at them as I hate to say senior.
Speaker 2: I feel like there's such a when owners here a
Speaker 2: senior you can just see it in their eyes. Yes,
Speaker 2: But I guess we'll say senior hood into their older
Speaker 2: years really like around seven or eight. And that's important
Speaker 2: because that's when we as vaterinarians really start recommending screening
Speaker 2: lab work. We recommend it before then, but we really
Speaker 2: put an emphasis on it once they get a little
Speaker 2: bit older, so screening lab work and then touching their
Speaker 2: food as well.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and once they get to that, like true senior age,
Speaker 1: I mean, before them, we're recommending annual adult blood work
Speaker 1: to monitor and get a baseline. But once we get
Speaker 1: to the senior it's like we might want to be
Speaker 1: checking things twice a year. So things change in terms
Speaker 1: of what our recommendations are at that point too. Yes,
Speaker 1: and not to leave out cats. Cats, cats are pretty standard.
Speaker 1: They like, you know, our stats have similar lifespans.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's not like our tiny dogs versus our big dogs.
Speaker 2: So I would say ten years of age is usually
Speaker 2: when I deem them moving into their senior years.
Speaker 1: I agree. And cats we have to be extra cautious
Speaker 1: with because oftentimes we'll see kittens and then we don't
Speaker 1: see them again until they're seniors because they're fine. Owners
Speaker 1: don't bring them in and then we see them when
Speaker 1: you know kidney changes are happening.
Speaker 2: Part of my French. But when shit hits the fan
Speaker 2: is when we see them. Yeah, a lot of time.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and cats can hide things until it is not
Speaker 1: okay right, so things can be brewing, and that's why
Speaker 1: we recommend even for cats, checking bloodwork to monitor kidney values,
Speaker 1: get their baselines when they're young or middle aged, and.
Speaker 2: At least do a really good physical exam on them
Speaker 2: once a year. Yes, absolutely, I agree. I hope that
Speaker 2: answers the question. And to be fair, I do think
Speaker 2: it's important to get them from adult to senior food.
Speaker 2: It's way more important to get them off puppy food, yes,
Speaker 2: and onto adult food. But if your older pet is
Speaker 2: eating adult food, it's probably not the end of the world.
Speaker 1: Yeah, totally agree. And sometimes we get to the point
Speaker 1: where seniors are really picky and I'm like, honestly, I
Speaker 1: just want them to eat, so we find that. I
Speaker 1: totally agree. All right, let's do question number two.
Speaker 3: Hello, my question is I have an aggressive mixed dog.
Speaker 3: I do not know why she's aggressive. I've had her
Speaker 3: since she was a puppy. We do live out kind
Speaker 3: of far and don't get a lot of visitors, so
Speaker 3: and she hasn't had a lot of interaction with people,
Speaker 3: so maybe that's why. Anyway, she needs to get her
Speaker 3: nails trimmed, and I'm afraid to do it because sometimes
Speaker 3: she gets this look in her eye like she would
Speaker 3: bite me. She has not bitten me, but I'm just
Speaker 3: I get afraid, so I want to take her to
Speaker 3: the VET to get them clipped. But in order for
Speaker 3: her to go to the VET, she has to be tranquilized,
Speaker 3: and I have to start to tranquilize her probably I
Speaker 3: think two days before she goes to the VET, so
Speaker 3: she's super drunk, and I'm just worried that I have
Speaker 3: to do that. Anytime she goes to the VET for
Speaker 3: a heartworm test, for anything, I have to tranquilize her.
Speaker 3: And I'm worried about doing it for her nail trimmings.
Speaker 3: I mean, can that be bad for her? Or should
Speaker 3: I just let them grow until they're so long that
Speaker 3: we can't stand it and then do it. I just
Speaker 3: don't know what to do. If you could help, that
Speaker 3: would be great. Thank you so much, and thank you
Speaker 3: for what you do.
Speaker 2: Another great question. This owner is using the word tranquilize.
Speaker 2: I think what she is intending to say as the
Speaker 2: veterinarian wants to give some oral sedation prior to her
Speaker 2: dog's VET visits.
Speaker 1: There are some dogs.
Speaker 2: Out there that are extremely fractious, and we do have
Speaker 2: to give them injectable sedation at the vet hospital. But
Speaker 2: I think more commonly, and I think what she's saying is, hey,
Speaker 2: I have to give my dogs oral medication prior to
Speaker 2: every vet visit. And I understand, especially not knowing, like
Speaker 2: is that safe for my dog? I just want to
Speaker 2: get a nail trim on her? Do I really need
Speaker 2: to give her these medications? And I understand where owners
Speaker 2: are coming from. With that being on the other side
Speaker 2: of the coin, I would say it is very safe
Speaker 2: and helps us times a million get our job done.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, And I honestly feel awful seeing a pet
Speaker 1: come into the clinic who is terrified scared, you know,
Speaker 1: and the way that dogs and are stressed, they can
Speaker 1: manifest that in different ways. Some cats are going to
Speaker 1: rip our face off. Other pets are hiding in the corner,
Speaker 1: and in either of those scenarios, that's not an enjoyable
Speaker 1: visit for them exactly and us and we use it
Speaker 1: very very commonly now, the oral sedatives just to take
Speaker 1: the edge off. It's not going to knock them on
Speaker 1: their butt, but it will help us get done what
Speaker 1: we need to get done. It's super safe, and yeah,
Speaker 1: I feel like I try to tell owners just because
Speaker 1: I'm recommending this to you does not mean, you have
Speaker 1: a bad pet, exactly, it's just to take their edge off.
Speaker 1: And quite frankly, when I go to the dentist, I'm like,
Speaker 1: can I have like happy gas or laughing gas? I
Speaker 1: want a good experience. So I just think of it
Speaker 1: kind of in that way.
Speaker 2: I totally agree, and I think there's been a huge
Speaker 2: shift in our field. I started working in vet med
Speaker 2: in a vet hospital. I was fifteen, which was almost
Speaker 2: twenty years ago. Wait was that twenty years ago? Twenty
Speaker 2: my very yeah, wow, oh my gosh, I'm getting old.
Speaker 2: And I realized, you know, back then, we didn't use
Speaker 2: medications to help take the edge off prior to pets
Speaker 2: coming in, and so it was a lot of physical
Speaker 2: getting physical with them and having to like hold them
Speaker 2: down and have like a big guy sit on top
Speaker 2: of them so that we could get done what we
Speaker 2: needed to get done. And the days of doing.
Speaker 1: That are over.
Speaker 2: We're really in the majority of modern animal hospitals are
Speaker 2: not using that kind of restraint anymore. We're really taking
Speaker 2: into consideration like our pets fear levels and stress levels
Speaker 2: and trying to mitigate those. And so if I have
Speaker 2: to give my pet a little something to take the
Speaker 2: edge off, and that means that they don't have a
Speaker 2: horrible traumatizing experience at the vet.
Speaker 1: I'm okay with that absolutely. I give it to my
Speaker 1: own dog, And it's also something to bring up to
Speaker 1: your veterinarian if your dog gets anxious at the groomers
Speaker 1: or for travel perpose, we can use these oral sedatives
Speaker 1: for all those instances. And yeah, I think if a
Speaker 1: dog comes in and we are body slamming them to
Speaker 1: the ground to get their nail trim done, the next
Speaker 1: visit is not going to be pleasant. It's going to
Speaker 1: be even worse. So we just got to set them
Speaker 1: up for success.
Speaker 2: And then just to reiterate, the safety profile on these
Speaker 2: medications is huge. I mean, these medications are so safe,
Speaker 2: They're tried and true, they're used in human medicine all
Speaker 2: the time. I can honestly say, I don't think I've
Speaker 2: ever seen an adverse reaction to them. So I understand, like,
Speaker 2: oh gosh, I'll have to give them multiple times, you know,
Speaker 2: for multiple visits.
Speaker 1: But there is no, no, nothing wrong with that. Yeah no,
Speaker 1: I do it for monkey. Yeah me too. I do
Speaker 1: it for my dogs when it's thunderstorming outside and they
Speaker 1: are so much happier. Assuming Bigie needs something, then he
Speaker 1: goes to the vent. Yes, big he needs the whole
Speaker 1: shit inject the whole shabang. He is a bad boy.
Speaker 1: All right. Well, those are great questions.
Speaker 2: When we come back, we are going to dive into
Speaker 2: our main topic of the day, which is allergies. A
Speaker 2: lot of you have been asking about it, and so
Speaker 2: this is a huge topic in veterinary medicine and something
Speaker 2: that really requires a sit down conversation like this. So
Speaker 2: we'll be right back and we'll dive into it.
Speaker 1: Awesome.
Speaker 2: All right, you guys have asked and we have heard.
Speaker 2: We are going to do the whole shabbang allergy talk.
Speaker 2: And I posted on my Instagram that I was really
Speaker 2: dreading this episode because the allergy talk is so.
Speaker 1: I don't know what the right word is.
Speaker 2: It can just be complex and it can be really
Speaker 2: frustrating for owners. And I said I might need to
Speaker 2: bring a bottle of wine to this episode, and I have,
Speaker 2: in fact brought a bottle of wine. So without further
Speaker 2: a deal, we're just gonna pop this for this talk.
Speaker 2: I'm trying to pop it.
Speaker 1: Woo. All right, let's get a crack in I wish
Speaker 1: we could have this in our exam room.
Speaker 2: I know, right, what if we brought a bottle of
Speaker 2: wine into the exam room. I feel like owners would
Speaker 2: love it.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, oh yeah, definitely.
Speaker 2: Okay, So here, Morgan, would you like to drink out
Speaker 2: of the bottle?
Speaker 1: Okay.
Speaker 2: So when I sit down with an owner, and Isabelle
Speaker 2: and I were talking about this, when you have a
Speaker 2: pet come in and you're like, this pet has allergies,
Speaker 2: it usually looks like you say.
Speaker 1: Because you brought up a really good point. The pet
Speaker 1: that comes in with multiple ear infections, Oh oh yeah.
Speaker 1: This is like the classic established care new client, new patient.
Speaker 1: They're coming in for a second opinion on there were
Speaker 1: current ear infections, and they've been giving drops yep all
Speaker 1: the time to no avail, And now they're coming in
Speaker 1: to figure out why I keep having to do this
Speaker 1: over and over again.
Speaker 2: And when I sit down with them, I say, I
Speaker 2: think your pet has allergies. I think that's the underlying
Speaker 2: issue here. And I just want you to know as
Speaker 2: an owner, this sucks. This is far and away the
Speaker 2: worst thing to work up. It takes time. There is
Speaker 2: no easy fix. We can't just slap a band aid
Speaker 2: on it. We're going to have to do some trial
Speaker 2: and error, so like just you know, buckle up because
Speaker 2: we're kind of in for the long haul.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And oftentimes when we see these people for that
Speaker 1: first appointment, can't we don't even have the time to
Speaker 1: go into the full detail that we will on this episode.
Speaker 1: So we have to focus on treating their secondary infections
Speaker 1: that they come in for first, and then ultimately rechecking
Speaker 1: the skin and the ear infections are going to be
Speaker 1: so so so important because then we can get them
Speaker 1: back to ground zero and transition to like addressing their
Speaker 1: underlying cause exactly.
Speaker 2: And that brings me to a great point, which I
Speaker 2: think the first thing is what do allergies? And also
Speaker 2: I just want to say I'm really sorry for all
Speaker 2: our cat owners out there. This is primarily for dogs
Speaker 2: out meat can't touch a little bit. Cats do suffer
Speaker 2: from allergies, but I'd say dogs tend to be our
Speaker 2: most common offender. We can well bring up cats as needed. Definitely,
Speaker 2: the big thing for me is how do they How
Speaker 2: are we typically seeing allergies present in our pets? And
Speaker 2: I think for us it's sort of unusual because when
Speaker 2: we have allergies. We have a sniffy nose, we have
Speaker 2: runny eyes, we might have a claw or a sneeze,
Speaker 2: And that's not typically the way that it can but
Speaker 2: not typically the way the allergies present in our pets.
Speaker 1: Right more more commonly, I mean most of the time
Speaker 1: we don't even notice until we see the secondary infections
Speaker 1: or they smell like yeast and they're scratching. But predominantly
Speaker 1: we're going to see chewing and looking at the paws,
Speaker 1: which super itchy. That is like slam dunk allergies. My
Speaker 1: own dog, when I come home and our foot is soaked,
Speaker 1: I'm like, I know, you've had your foot in your
Speaker 1: mouth all day, chewing it like a corn cobs, chewing
Speaker 1: it like a corn cob, licking their feet, scratching their ears,
Speaker 1: scratching their armpits, scratching everywhere. I feel like those are
Speaker 1: the most common ear infections or current ear infections. And
Speaker 1: one other weird one is recurrent anal gland issues. Yes,
Speaker 1: I feel like we don't focus on that as much,
Speaker 1: but a lot of dogs with underlying allergies will need
Speaker 1: their anal glands addressed more often than more often ones
Speaker 1: that don't.
Speaker 2: I agree with that, and then from there, once we've
Speaker 2: kind of established okay, this pet has the signs of allergies,
Speaker 2: the next the next question is, well, what is causing
Speaker 2: allergies in our pets? And there's really three big things
Speaker 2: that cause allergies in our pets. Number one is fleas,
Speaker 2: number two is something in their food, and number three
Speaker 2: is something in the environment. Environment can be anything from
Speaker 2: like something seasonal like grasses, trees, pollens, to something that's
Speaker 2: there all year round like dust, mites, mold spores and
Speaker 2: those kinds of things.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I think that's a good point to bring
Speaker 1: in our cat population because a lot of cats are
Speaker 1: indoor only, they can still have environmental allergies to things
Speaker 1: that are going on in the house.
Speaker 2: Absolutely, or even like if it is high grass season
Speaker 2: and trees and pollens. We're bringing that in on our
Speaker 2: clothes and our shoes, and so it definitely can affect
Speaker 2: our kitties as well, for sure. And we see a
Speaker 2: lot of kiddies get fleas, Yes, I feel like they
Speaker 2: get fleas more often than our dogs do. Yes, And
Speaker 2: they absolutely have food allergies. So this applies to cats
Speaker 2: for sure, definitely. So we know as muginarians. Okay, your
Speaker 2: pet comes in, it's itching. It's one of these three things.
Speaker 2: Where do we start with trying to figure out what
Speaker 2: the underlying issue is? And this is where it gets
Speaker 2: a little bit more complicated. The first thing is we
Speaker 2: do a really good physical exam and we take a
Speaker 2: really good history from the owner. And it's quite doing
Speaker 2: a physical to rule in or out fleas. Right, if
Speaker 2: you don't have fleas on yet, you probably don't have
Speaker 2: the flea issue right.
Speaker 1: Less likely for sure. I do really really focus on
Speaker 1: their history with these pets, and if they are not
Speaker 1: on flee in tick prevention, I tell those owners like, theoretically,
Speaker 1: even if we don't see a flee today, it's still possible.
Speaker 1: So we can't rule out flea allergy in pets who
Speaker 1: are on prevention. I agree with that.
Speaker 2: And they can get bit by a flea and then
Speaker 2: have this long lasting allergic reaction just from one flea bite.
Speaker 1: Yes, And what people don't realize is that dogs and
Speaker 1: cats are actually allergic to the saliva from the flea.
Speaker 1: So a flea can jump on the pet, leave some
Speaker 1: saliba kiss ye, leave some saliva behind, jump off. We
Speaker 1: see no fleas but they're presenting for a flea allergy.
Speaker 2: I agree it can be obscure because if they're not
Speaker 2: on prevention and we don't see fleas on them, then
Speaker 2: we just have to treat them as though maybe this
Speaker 2: is a allergy.
Speaker 1: But it also could not be right. And I tell
Speaker 1: owners like, honestly, you we don't want like our fleas
Speaker 1: in our environment, but a diagnosis of a flea allergy
Speaker 1: is kind of a good thing. Slam dunk. Yeah, we
Speaker 1: can treat them. We can. Hopefully this is a one off,
Speaker 1: and it's significantly less expensive than going down a diagnostic
Speaker 1: rabbit hole. I agree with that for the other causes.
Speaker 2: Sadly though, I feel like that is one out of
Speaker 2: every ten allergy cases, maybe even less than that.
Speaker 1: We see, Yeah, and our pets coming into the hospital,
Speaker 1: I agree those pets do present with a very specific
Speaker 1: physical exam. Though, yes, I'm sure we probably learned the
Speaker 1: same way invet school that these pets are itchy, they
Speaker 1: have scabs, they can have live fleas predominantly in what
Speaker 1: we call the pants region. Yes, did you learn it
Speaker 1: less where they would put their pull their jeans up. Yep,
Speaker 1: So imagine a dog wearing pants or cat and basically
Speaker 1: near their butt based of their tails. The tail, Yes,
Speaker 1: that is where we predominantly see the symptoms. So if
Speaker 1: a dog comes in, even if they don't have fleas,
Speaker 1: but they're not on prevention and their pants region is angry,
Speaker 1: then I'm like, Okay, this is probably flee we got
Speaker 1: a problem.
Speaker 2: We're like Sherlock Holmes, Yes, so that that kind of
Speaker 2: explains fleas. And like I said, that's I don't do
Speaker 2: you think one out of ten? Do you think I'm
Speaker 2: over guestimating that over?
Speaker 1: I think it's more common than we think it is,
Speaker 1: especially because like again cats specifically, yeah, and cats, we
Speaker 1: have a lot of people who live in apartments. Your
Speaker 1: cat could be indoor only they go outside, but the
Speaker 1: dog in the apartment next door could have fleas and
Speaker 1: they can get that just from living in the apartment.
Speaker 1: So we don't talk about this as much, but keeping
Speaker 1: even cats on flea intent prevention year round is gold standard.
Speaker 1: I agree.
Speaker 2: So if we do the exam, we don't, you know,
Speaker 2: and take a history and we don't think that fleas
Speaker 2: are involved, the next place that we start is thinking
Speaker 2: about a food allergy ninety nine point nine nine nine
Speaker 2: nine nine percent of the time. If a pet is
Speaker 2: allergic to something in their food, it's going to be
Speaker 2: the protein. Two of the really big things that I
Speaker 2: hear owners say that don't really apply to a food
Speaker 2: allergy are number one, Fluffy's been eating the same food
Speaker 2: for years and years and years, so it couldn't possibly
Speaker 2: be a food allergy. Into that, I say, sadly, that's
Speaker 2: not true. They can develop a food allergy really at
Speaker 2: any point in their life. It's kind of like my
Speaker 2: twenty five year old cousin who never had an allergy
Speaker 2: and then woke up one day and Ada Carrott and
Speaker 2: her lips blew up. The humans also develop allergies later
Speaker 2: in life, definitely. And then number two, the other one
Speaker 2: is well, I've tried switching up the food multiple times
Speaker 2: and I haven't seen any improvement, So I don't think
Speaker 2: it's a food allergy. Both of those things I hear them,
Speaker 2: and well, it's great to know. They doesn't really sway
Speaker 2: me one way or another.
Speaker 1: Definitely agreed if it's a food, they have the right
Speaker 1: thought process do, but they just need a little little
Speaker 1: extra help exactly.
Speaker 2: And so what we tell owners is could this be environmental? Yes,
Speaker 2: could this be food? Yes, we don't really know until
Speaker 2: we do additional testing. And so the first place to
Speaker 2: start is to rule out or potentially rule in a
Speaker 2: food allergy. And the only way to do that is
Speaker 2: by doing a diet trial.
Speaker 1: Yes, and diet trials are not fun. They're not They're
Speaker 1: definitely harder on the owner than the pet. I agree
Speaker 1: with that, But environmental allergies, unless you're going to the
Speaker 1: veterinary dermatologist and getting testing, it's a diagnosis of exclusion,
Speaker 1: which means we have to rule out every other possible
Speaker 1: cause before just being confident and saying your dog has
Speaker 1: environmental allergies exactly. And again, wouldn't it be nice if
Speaker 1: it was as easy as switching up the food and
Speaker 1: putting them on a different diet and you don't have
Speaker 1: to worry about their allergies over again exactly? So the
Speaker 1: diet trial is very strict. We have to feed them
Speaker 1: a very specific type of food. There's kind of two
Speaker 1: different options. What I most commonly recommend is a diet
Speaker 1: called a hydrolyzed protein diet. That is where the protein's
Speaker 1: broken down super small so the body should not react
Speaker 1: to it as foreign and they have to be on
Speaker 1: a strict hydrolyzed protein diet, which you could talk about
Speaker 1: the other option, for a minimum of eight to twelve weeks.
Speaker 1: No other food should go in that dog's mouth.
Speaker 2: Nothing flavored at all. None, no treats, no bones, no
Speaker 2: flavored medications. And this is why doctor Isabella says, Hey,
Speaker 2: this is really hard because you have to get everyone
Speaker 2: in your family on board. If you have a toddler
Speaker 2: throwing things over the high chair, that can ruin the
Speaker 2: diet trial and your back at square one starting all
Speaker 2: over again.
Speaker 1: Yes, and this is exactly what we do for cats
Speaker 1: to for everyone who has cats. Yes, we do diet
Speaker 1: trials for cats. Sac same and you said it's for
Speaker 1: eight full weeks. Eight full weeks, and then by that
Speaker 1: point we kind of go in one of two directions.
Speaker 1: If their symptoms have resolved, then we can do what
Speaker 1: we call challenges, where we reintroduce certain ingredients or foods
Speaker 1: back into their diet, and if they are itchy again
Speaker 1: within a week or two, then we know, okay, we
Speaker 1: can't be feeding them that, and we just kind of
Speaker 1: do a trial and error until we get to the
Speaker 1: right I really want to emphasize too that the food
Speaker 1: that we are using in diet trials are prescription based.
Speaker 2: There are other food brands out there that will label
Speaker 2: foods hypoallergenic, but they're not truly that hydrolyzed, very very
Speaker 2: small protein based veterinary food that really can only be
Speaker 2: used in a diet trial.
Speaker 1: So that's a really a big thing.
Speaker 2: And four weeks into the diet trial, I tell my owners,
Speaker 2: you not be seeing any improvement at all. There's still
Speaker 2: there's still some leftover protein from the food they were
Speaker 2: eating before that may be causing that residual allergy flare up.
Speaker 2: And so you really can't deem whether or not it's
Speaker 2: working until you hit week eight.
Speaker 1: Definitely, they have to be in it for the long run,
Speaker 1: and I'm like, let's just like put our all into
Speaker 1: this for two months, and then after that, let's say
Speaker 1: they're itching, just continues, then we know, okay, you can
Speaker 1: eat whatever he want, it's probably not the food, right,
Speaker 1: And then you brought up challenging.
Speaker 2: I am sort of of the mindset where I feel
Speaker 2: like I think owners are like, oh my gosh, I
Speaker 2: don't want to just feed them this hydrolyzed protein food.
Speaker 2: But if it was my dog, I would just keep them.
Speaker 2: I usually say, just keep them on the hydrolyzed protein
Speaker 2: food because a it's healthy, it's well balanced, They're going
Speaker 2: to do great for the entirety of their lives on it.
Speaker 2: And if you want to like start adding maybe a
Speaker 2: treat in. But as far as like changing up their
Speaker 2: diet and going back to something over the counter, that
Speaker 2: will makes me very taken a risk.
Speaker 1: My personal my dog Monkey is on a hydrolyzed protein diet.
Speaker 1: She's been on it since she was like a year
Speaker 1: old and now she's four. She loves it, so yeah,
Speaker 1: I've kept her on that long term. It is prescription,
Speaker 1: so it's going to be a little bit more pricey.
Speaker 1: So if I have owners who are, you know, trying
Speaker 1: to be a little bit more financially conscious, then we
Speaker 1: can talk about other options. But even for example, the
Speaker 1: sensitive skin and stomach diets that are over the counter,
Speaker 1: those can be contaminated in the factory, so with other proteins,
Speaker 1: with yes, with other producterior or anything. So we cannot
Speaker 1: assume since our dog's been on a sensitive skin and
Speaker 1: stomach diet and nothing's helping, we can't assume that right.
Speaker 1: The other thing, too, is if you think about it.
Speaker 2: If yes, prescription food is going to be a little
Speaker 2: bit more than your regular run of the mill food,
Speaker 2: but if they respond really well to it, ultimately you're
Speaker 2: probably going to save money because you're going into the
Speaker 2: vet less to or check ups and skin rashes and
Speaker 2: infections and ear infections. So that's one one factor. So
Speaker 2: if we do the diet trial, or even if we
Speaker 2: don't do the diet trial, we'll say, then the other
Speaker 2: thought that we have is it could be environmental and
Speaker 2: like doctor Isabella said, that primarily is a diagnosis of
Speaker 2: exclusion ideally gold standard. We would love to do the
Speaker 2: eight week diet trial. Your pet is still itching, then
Speaker 2: we say, okay, we've ruled out fleas, we've ruled out
Speaker 2: a food allergy. It probably has environmental allergies. And that can,
Speaker 2: like I said, manifest in a lot of different ways.
Speaker 2: It can be all year round. If they're allergic to
Speaker 2: something like dust mites, it can be really bad in
Speaker 2: the spring and fall when it's hey season. So it's
Speaker 2: not like a one size fits all by any means. Oh,
Speaker 2: definitely not.
Speaker 1: And there is a way to definitively diagnose environmental allergies. Yes,
Speaker 1: and that requires consultation with a veterinary dermatologist.
Speaker 2: Yes, if we're going gold standard, we refer you to
Speaker 2: the dermatologists and they do intradermal testing where they take
Speaker 2: these tiny little needles and they poke the dogs with
Speaker 2: all the different allergens, just like they do in humans
Speaker 2: and see how they react, and depending on what they
Speaker 2: react to, they will formulate allergy injections like a protocol,
Speaker 2: and they also have drops that go underneath the tongue
Speaker 2: and from there we help them lessen their allergies with
Speaker 2: these these special formulations based on what they're allergic to.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's truly just like if you were to go
Speaker 1: to the allergy doctor and they were to formulate an
Speaker 1: allergy shop for you. Yeah, identical. But that's a big commitment.
Speaker 2: H It's not inexpensive you're looking at It depends on
Speaker 2: where you live, but probably thousands of dollars, right, I see, Like,
Speaker 2: I don't know three thousand dollars, but you can probably
Speaker 2: around there also we need to ask.
Speaker 1: But yeah, yeah, so it's a big commitment, and you're
Speaker 1: also going to have to do multiple rechecks with the
Speaker 1: dermatologists throughout the process.
Speaker 2: We're not saying that's wrong, Like, if you want to
Speaker 2: get to the bottom of it, I love that, Like
Speaker 2: we support you, Yeah, definitely, but just understanding that it's
Speaker 2: not going to be the most inexpensive route.
Speaker 1: And if you can't do that or don't want to
Speaker 1: for whatever reason, like we've got other options, So you
Speaker 1: should feel bad for not being able to take your
Speaker 1: dog to the dermatologists. I agree with that.
Speaker 2: I'd say the majority of owners don't. Oh yeah dermatologists, No,
Speaker 2: not unless it's very severe. But I agree just like
Speaker 2: regular run of the mill seasonal allergies, No, they're not
Speaker 2: doing that. I agree with that. So that really brings
Speaker 2: us to it. I feel like then we end up
Speaker 2: with a set of clients that fall into a bucket
Speaker 2: of Okay, my family can't possibly do a food trial.
Speaker 2: I've got seven kids, We're going to fail it. It's
Speaker 2: going to be a waste of my money to do
Speaker 2: a diet trial, or I just simply don't want to
Speaker 2: do that.
Speaker 1: And then we've also got the bucket.
Speaker 2: Of my pet we are pretty sure has environmental allergies,
Speaker 2: but I, for whatever reason, don't want to go to
Speaker 2: the dermatologist. And then that leaves us with Okay, we
Speaker 2: know your pet has allergies. We're not entirely sure which
Speaker 2: kind of allergy, but we're going to we have options
Speaker 2: as far as treating it and keeping them comfortable.
Speaker 1: Right, And our goal from the general practitioners standpoint in
Speaker 1: those situations is basically just to manage their symptoms so
Speaker 1: that they don't end up with those secondary ear infections,
Speaker 1: skin infections, anal gland issues exactly.
Speaker 2: And I think that's like the big takeaway point for
Speaker 2: me as a general practitioner is I know your pet
Speaker 2: has allergies, but we are not treating the underlying cause.
Speaker 2: If we haven't done a diet trial, we haven't done
Speaker 2: the intradermal testing. We are simply keeping your pet's itchiness
Speaker 2: at bay, trying our best to prevent those infections. But
Speaker 2: they will be times when those infections break through, and
Speaker 2: there are going to be times when hey, you couldn't
Speaker 2: get here on time for it's side A point, which
Speaker 2: we'll talk about it's side A point injection. And so
Speaker 2: it's going to be a constant battle of doing our
Speaker 2: best to manage the symptoms. It's not going to be
Speaker 2: a cure though, right exactly. I wish it was.
Speaker 1: Yeah, me too. I mean, it's kind of like with people.
Speaker 1: A lot of times we don't figure out exactly what
Speaker 1: we're allergic to. I don't know what I'm allergic to outside,
Speaker 1: but it's something, yeah, and I take an antihistamine. Yeah,
Speaker 1: exactly basically what we're doing with the pets. I agree.
Speaker 2: So first things first, we treat if your pet comes
Speaker 2: to us and looking like it's having an allergic flare up,
Speaker 2: we treat the underlying infection. Like doctor Isabella said, We're
Speaker 2: going to treat that your infection. We're going to treat
Speaker 2: that skin rash. A lot of times, that's going to
Speaker 2: include an antibiotic and potentially like something that treats east
Speaker 2: whether that is like a shampoo or a moose or
Speaker 2: an oral medication. We're going to really target whatever is
Speaker 2: causing the infection on your pets skin.
Speaker 1: Yes, so yeah, that's what we want to do first
Speaker 1: and foremost, but ultimately and depending on how severe their
Speaker 1: problems are when they come in, we are not going
Speaker 1: to get rid of these secondary infections without treating an
Speaker 1: underlying itch exactly because it's when they itch themselves, lick
Speaker 1: themselves to themselves raw that they get those secondary bacterial
Speaker 1: or yeast infections.
Speaker 2: So I think that's a really good point to make,
Speaker 2: is I think people are always like, well, why is
Speaker 2: my dog my dog has allergies? Why is it getting
Speaker 2: an infection? And so much of it is because they're
Speaker 2: so they're traumatizing their own skin, which is already angry
Speaker 2: right that it's just making it so susceptible to bacteria
Speaker 2: and yeast coming in and causing infections.
Speaker 1: They hone in on that. I mean, I have a
Speaker 1: dog who licks her paws, So I'm sure there are
Speaker 1: pet owners out there who can agree with me that
Speaker 1: in the middle of the night, when you're trying to
Speaker 1: sleep in all you hear, is there anything worse that
Speaker 1: licking sound? It is the worst. So yeah, that ultimately
Speaker 1: their mouth is full of bacteria, and they just focus
Speaker 1: in on one point. They get into a frenzy, and
Speaker 1: that's when we get those infections.
Speaker 2: Yeah, So treating that infection first and foremost, and then
Speaker 2: from there we really have to think about interrupting that
Speaker 2: itch cycle. And I say, we have two main medications
Speaker 2: on the market currently. It used to be we didn't
Speaker 2: have them really when I first came out of at school.
Speaker 2: The first medication came out which is called apoquel. But
Speaker 2: prior to that, everyone was using steroids. Yes, and not
Speaker 2: to say that steroids are wrong, and in really severe
Speaker 2: cases we do use them, but nowadays we tend to
Speaker 2: steer a little bit away from steroids right at the
Speaker 2: start of treatment. And so the two main options are
Speaker 2: Apoquell and side a point. Yes, and they both are
Speaker 2: different medications, but they both similarly try to interrupt the
Speaker 2: itch cycle. They turn off different receptors that are associated
Speaker 2: with itch and our pets. And I know it sounds crazy,
Speaker 2: like just sitting here being like, how does that work?
Speaker 2: But they are amazing and that pets can get pretty
Speaker 2: immediate relief when starting these medications.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and both side a point and apple quil they
Speaker 1: have their own individual pros and cons, So we can
Speaker 1: kind of talk about both of those. I think we
Speaker 1: both agree that our general first line, if we're going
Speaker 1: to recommend one of those, is going to be side
Speaker 1: a point. Absolutely, It's what I give to my own dog.
Speaker 1: It just has a higher long term safety profile. So
Speaker 1: side a point is a injection that goes under the
Speaker 1: pet skin. What Jack doctor Josie was explaining, it's a
Speaker 1: monoclonal anti body, so it just binds to a certain
Speaker 1: receptor that tells them they're not itchy at a point.
Speaker 1: Is great because it's an injection that will last a
Speaker 1: minimum of a month. For some dogs it'll last eight
Speaker 1: to twelve weeks or longer. And then you don't have
Speaker 1: to give anything at home.
Speaker 2: Yes, you just have really nice anything at home, but
Speaker 2: it is a pain in the butt because you have
Speaker 2: to come.
Speaker 1: Back to the clinic.
Speaker 2: Yes, I have some pets that come every four weeks
Speaker 2: on the DOT to get their sidle point injection, and
Speaker 2: then like monkey, we have some that can last eight weeks,
Speaker 2: twelve weeks yea.
Speaker 1: And sometimes it depends on the time of year too.
Speaker 1: If it's the sea, you know, the spring and the fall,
Speaker 1: you might have to be bringing your dog every month
Speaker 1: on the DOT. But in the winter maybe if they
Speaker 1: have something to grasses and pollens, you might not have
Speaker 1: to bring them in so frequently.
Speaker 2: And whether it's a food allergy or an environmental allergy,
Speaker 2: they all tend to respond very well. I find definitely
Speaker 2: these medications decide a point specifically.
Speaker 1: Because again we're just targeting their itch right.
Speaker 2: Definitely puts a little bit more onus on the owner
Speaker 2: of having to keep an eye on your pet and
Speaker 2: be really diligent about being compliant, like, oh, okay, I
Speaker 2: can tell that Fluffy's having a flare up or just
Speaker 2: a little bit more itchy today, I should get them
Speaker 2: in for a side of point.
Speaker 1: Yes, and one of the I would. I wouldn't say
Speaker 1: it's a downside, but in comparison to aplequoil, it does
Speaker 1: take probably like a day I agree to kick in,
Speaker 1: so it's not gonna give us like I'm going to
Speaker 1: give this shot and they're gonna feel better in the
Speaker 1: next hour, but usually by next day I feel like
Speaker 1: usually see next day, and to me, that is worth
Speaker 1: it for long term use and how safe it is.
Speaker 1: I agree with that.
Speaker 2: The other big thing that I tell owners is after
Speaker 2: the first shot, you may see some improvement, but you
Speaker 2: may not see the full effects. It does take a
Speaker 2: time or two, like after a couple of them, to
Speaker 2: really see how well your pet's going to respond.
Speaker 1: Yes, I recently learned from a dermatologist that it has
Speaker 1: an additive effect, so up to three doses can make
Speaker 1: their response even better. So don't knock it on the
Speaker 1: first try if it didn't work one hundred percent. I
Speaker 1: agree The.
Speaker 2: Other option is apquel and this is a medication that
Speaker 2: targets something called a jack.
Speaker 1: It's a jack inhibitor.
Speaker 2: And so again just kind of interrupting that it's cycle
Speaker 2: in a different way than sido point. It's a great option.
Speaker 2: It is a tablet, so it is a little bit
Speaker 2: more labor intensive for owners at home where I've always
Speaker 2: been taught. The first two weeks you give it twice daily,
Speaker 2: that's called the loading dose, and then from there you
Speaker 2: can drop to once daily. Sometimes that loading dose can
Speaker 2: be a week or two weeks, and then from there
Speaker 2: you drop to once a day long term as maintenance,
Speaker 2: and it is a great option. I just find long
Speaker 2: term safety wise, I think sido point has a little
Speaker 2: bit less side effects.
Speaker 1: Definitely. Apoquil, as opposed to side a point is an immunosuppressant.
Speaker 1: Correct side a point really isn't so kind of similarly
Speaker 1: to a steroid. It can suppress the immune system a
Speaker 1: little bit long term, it's a weird side effect, but
Speaker 1: they can actually be more prone to secondary infections. It's
Speaker 1: not common, no it's not, but it's still it's still possible.
Speaker 1: So if your pet responds great to side a point,
Speaker 1: I would stick with that. But if your pet has
Speaker 1: to get aboquil, that's fine.
Speaker 2: Yes, I'd rather have them take abuquel, and it would
Speaker 2: be unlikely for them to be the one out of
Speaker 2: hundreds that has those side effects but also has a
Speaker 2: great quality of life because they're not itching themselves to death. Definitely,
Speaker 2: this is not to scare you away from apoquil by
Speaker 2: any means.
Speaker 1: No, And at what I love about apaquil is how
Speaker 1: quickly it works. It starts working within four hours, and
Speaker 1: I love it just for like little bursts of like
Speaker 1: short term treatments, like I'm going to put you on
Speaker 1: apa quoil for two weeks while we have this infection.
Speaker 1: Once you stop it, I'll be curious to see if
Speaker 1: you're noticing more itchiness.
Speaker 2: Again, we do have those patients that have acute allergic
Speaker 2: flare ups like and they don't I wouldn't put them
Speaker 2: in the category of having allergies where for whatever reason,
Speaker 2: maybe they got stung by something, or they rolled in
Speaker 2: some grasses that they don't usually go in, where just
Speaker 2: one week out of the year of their whole life
Speaker 2: they've had an allergic flare up and apicquil works great for.
Speaker 1: That right, I love it, But yeah, there's and I
Speaker 1: also think, and we've talked about this before, there's just
Speaker 1: certain patients who respond better to apicquoil than side A point.
Speaker 1: I will never forget you told me. You just feel
Speaker 1: like the like dooly poodly breeds do really well with
Speaker 1: side A point, and then the like labs hid hip balls,
Speaker 1: they are.
Speaker 2: Not great and some some allergy cases are so severe
Speaker 2: that we have to do both.
Speaker 1: Right and ultimately to what's important to note is the
Speaker 1: cost that it takes for a side point injection per
Speaker 1: month is about equal it is the cost of apicquil
Speaker 1: per month. Yeah, I was gonna say, cost wise, there's
Speaker 1: not a huge difference, and they're not. Just to be
Speaker 1: fully transparent, they are not inexpensive medications, but they are
Speaker 1: far and away the most effective with the least amount
Speaker 1: of side effects. So you know, going and getting a
Speaker 1: steroid like predno zone will be will be cheaper for sure,
Speaker 1: but long term is probably not the best solution for
Speaker 1: your pet. Agreed sadly. Yeah.
Speaker 2: So, one other thing I just want to touch on
Speaker 2: before we jump to upawn order is we do have
Speaker 2: over the counter anahistamines for our pets, they're what we
Speaker 2: use as humans will recommend Benadryl or Zirtech. I know,
Speaker 2: Doctor Isabella and I tend to lean more towards Zyrtech
Speaker 2: because they don't make them as drowsy as benadrel does,
Speaker 2: and I mean they be completely transparent and that I
Speaker 2: don't think these work very well for the types of
Speaker 2: allergy that dogs have. If it's like a really minor
Speaker 2: issue and I sense that the owner doesn't want to
Speaker 2: do side a point or apple quail, they're just like,
Speaker 2: not really sure, then I'll say, hey, why not take
Speaker 2: a zerotec a day, Let's see.
Speaker 1: How it goes.
Speaker 2: But I'm almost always going to see them back because
Speaker 2: it doesn't work very well.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I can attest to this directly because I
Speaker 1: did it with my dog. If you can't tell, she's
Speaker 1: an allergic mess and it might have helped. I'm like,
Speaker 1: is this just placebo effect? Probably, but it wasn't enough
Speaker 1: to you know, make a few worth it. And depending
Speaker 1: on the size of the pet, you might have to
Speaker 1: give multiple tablets a day, Like for my dog it
Speaker 1: was like three tablets once a day. I'm going to
Speaker 1: run through that zerotech so fast for something that's not
Speaker 1: even going to be as effective as side a point
Speaker 1: right as well.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you'll be two bottles of zertech later. You might
Speaker 2: as well just one side a point right.
Speaker 1: But I definitely think it's a good option, especially for
Speaker 1: like my dog's sneezing a little bit more than usual,
Speaker 1: and maybe it's just for this.
Speaker 2: Like short little I agree with first of pollen, but
Speaker 2: you're like really itchy dogs though that have recurrent allergies.
Speaker 1: I'm like, throw it out the window. It's probably not
Speaker 1: going to work. I wish it was. Yeah, I hate
Speaker 1: to be the bearer of bad news.
Speaker 2: And I've said this before and I'll say it again,
Speaker 2: and I'm going to die on this hill, but do
Speaker 2: not give your dogs or cats and a histamines with
Speaker 2: the D ingredient in them so zir tech D vinadreal D,
Speaker 2: a lagrid D. That d ingredient is incredibly toxic. And
Speaker 2: I've had a patient who passed away because the owner
Speaker 2: gave it a lagri d oh one dos. So that
Speaker 2: is a really key point to take away. Yeah, I
Speaker 2: guess really, So, I think we've kind of covered all
Speaker 2: the things.
Speaker 1: I hope this is helpful.
Speaker 2: I would say the big key takeaways are rechecks are
Speaker 2: super important, super important. Come back in that way we
Speaker 2: can see how your pet is doing. Do we need
Speaker 2: to change things, do we need to add in certain medications.
Speaker 2: It's not a one size fits all, So rechecks are
Speaker 2: super important. And then if I could do anything, it's
Speaker 2: just setting expectations with owners that if your pet has allergies,
Speaker 2: we will we will get through it. But it's going
Speaker 2: to take a little bit of time, and it's going
Speaker 2: to take time on our end to figure out what's
Speaker 2: going on, and it's going to require compliance on your
Speaker 2: end to keep bringing them back so we can get
Speaker 2: to the bottom of it.
Speaker 1: Yeah. I think setting that expectation right off the bat,
Speaker 1: it just it makes everyone happier. Yeah, because it can
Speaker 1: be a long road, sets us all up for success. Yes,
Speaker 1: it's not like a hey, here's a bill, You're going
Speaker 1: to be fine. You know, it's going to be a
Speaker 1: bit of a journey, but not one that we can't do.
Speaker 1: I mean we especially here in Nashville, I feel like
Speaker 1: we're in the allergy capital of the country. Yeah, and
Speaker 1: so so many of our patients have allergies and are
Speaker 1: doing amazing. I know, we make it sound pretty daunting,
Speaker 1: but we can get them comfortable and get them taken
Speaker 1: care of and they will do great. Oh yeah, we
Speaker 1: have our regulars who come in for just their tech
Speaker 1: appointment side of point shots and they're cruising. They're great,
Speaker 1: they're cruising. All right. Well, that concludes our allergy talk.
Speaker 2: As always, if you have follow up questions, please let
Speaker 2: me know. You can find me at doctor Josievett on Instagram.
Speaker 2: And then we're gonna take a quick break and then
Speaker 2: we'll be back with our paw and order. All right,
Speaker 2: we are back with our paw and order for the
Speaker 2: week number one on the list. I would never ever
Speaker 2: do the saliva and blood testing when testing for allergies,
Speaker 2: and my pets agreed.
Speaker 1: I there are so many like over the counter, yes, blood,
Speaker 1: you can buy them on the internet. Saliva, the hair,
Speaker 1: yeah yeah, those tests and they're just we don't have
Speaker 1: any evidence that those are accurate. And then ultimately it
Speaker 1: just makes it more challenging for us trying to interpret
Speaker 1: them when we don't know what's real and what's not.
Speaker 2: I totally I think you're wasting your money. If you're
Speaker 2: going to put your money towards something, I would not
Speaker 2: put it towards that these are we don't even like
Speaker 2: the people that are making them aren't like vetted. So
Speaker 2: you're just buying something on the internet. You're getting caught
Speaker 2: in an Instagram scam. Definitely, and I'm the queen of
Speaker 2: that people. Yes, but this is one I would not
Speaker 2: fall for.
Speaker 1: Yeah, no, never, all right.
Speaker 2: Number two, I would not put anything in my pet's
Speaker 2: ears that is not veterinary recommended.
Speaker 1: This one's very popular. Yes, we have clients coming in
Speaker 1: all the time for with dogs with ear infections, and
Speaker 1: we ask are you using anything for maintenance ear cleaning,
Speaker 1: and they say, oh, yeah, yeah, I've been putting in
Speaker 1: my vinegar.
Speaker 2: And when I hear vinegar going in the ear, I
Speaker 2: think I die a little inside.
Speaker 1: Yeah, people have some weird concoctions. I'm sure it's on TikTok,
Speaker 1: but on most slow is another thing. Coci. Yes, and
Speaker 1: the ear is already hot, hot, dark, moist, so you're
Speaker 1: just adding more moisture in there. It can be tearing
Speaker 1: up the ear canal.
Speaker 2: Yes, and that ear drum is so sensitive and if
Speaker 2: there's a little tear this might be getting too scientific.
Speaker 1: But if there's a little tear in your pet's.
Speaker 2: Ear, drum that is a whole leading into the inside
Speaker 2: of the pets, you know, ear canal and then it
Speaker 2: can affect their brain. I mean, we have to be
Speaker 2: really careful with what we put into the ears.
Speaker 1: Yes, so don't use anything that isn't prescription or something
Speaker 1: that your veterinarian is specifically recommending from Chewy or pet Smart. Yes,
Speaker 1: I agree. There's one drop that I see a lot,
Speaker 1: which is called ziemox. Yeah.
Speaker 2: I feel like bad, like I'm calling out drug companies,
Speaker 2: but I mean it's the true. If we see zymos
Speaker 2: and people will use that like, oh, I've been trying this,
Speaker 2: but it's not really working.
Speaker 1: And that is just a steroid.
Speaker 2: So it's gonna help bring down a little inflammation and
Speaker 2: help with itchiness, but it will not work with an
Speaker 2: ear infection.
Speaker 1: It's not gonna treat the bacteria or the yeast. It's
Speaker 1: just gonna help with some of the redness. But you
Speaker 1: need antibacterials or anti fungals. Yeah, You're not ever treating
Speaker 1: the underlying issue until you get that. So we're just
Speaker 1: like the bearer of bad news on this episode. Yeah,
Speaker 1: And unfortunately a lot of clients they always ask if
Speaker 1: we can put them on an oral antibiotic or medication
Speaker 1: for the ear infections. And it's the topicals. Eardrops are
Speaker 1: like really the only things that are reaching enough of
Speaker 1: a concentration to treat those penetrating that that thick ear wall.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's very true. It's different than in humans. Humans
Speaker 2: can take oral antibiotics or ear infections, but in our
Speaker 2: pets they cannot.
Speaker 1: Okay, last, but not least.
Speaker 2: I would not, and I'm pretty sure I've already said this,
Speaker 2: I'm gonna say it again because we're own our allergy talk.
Speaker 2: I would not continuously switch the proteins in my pets food.
Speaker 2: I hear so many owners say, oh, my pet gets bored,
Speaker 2: so now I have them on chicken. Now I have
Speaker 2: them on salmon and beef and rabbit, an alligator and
Speaker 2: all the things.
Speaker 1: And if your pet is doing great on the protein
Speaker 1: they're on, stick with it, yes, agreed. If for some reason,
Speaker 1: I mean, this is just setting them up to develop
Speaker 1: a food allergy correct and GI issues too if you
Speaker 1: just keep switching it up. So stick with what they like,
Speaker 1: stick with what you know, and if they do develop
Speaker 1: a food allergy in the future, it will make it
Speaker 1: much harder for us to try and figure out a
Speaker 1: protein that works for them since they've been exposed to
Speaker 1: so much.
Speaker 2: Exactly, if it ain't broke, don't try and fix it. Definitely,
Speaker 2: And that is the end of our pond order and
Speaker 2: the end of our episode.
Speaker 1: Thank you so much for coming back. Thank you. I'm
Speaker 1: sure we'll be having you in season three. We've got
Speaker 1: a lot more to cover.
Speaker 2: And as always to the listener, if you have any questions,
Speaker 2: please leave them on our voicemail app. You can get
Speaker 2: that in the bio of my instagram. You can DM
Speaker 2: me your questions. It's at doctor Josie Vett on Instagram.
Speaker 2: And please rate, review and subscribe. Every single star accounts,
Speaker 2: every review counts. We really appreciate it and we'll see
Speaker 2: you next week.