1 00:00:02,520 --> 00:00:10,280 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news. In his first hours 2 00:00:10,320 --> 00:00:13,560 Speaker 1: in office, President Trump signed an executive order to withdraw 3 00:00:13,600 --> 00:00:15,680 Speaker 1: the US from the World Health Organization. 4 00:00:16,520 --> 00:00:19,800 Speaker 2: So we paid five hundred million dollars to World Health. 5 00:00:19,800 --> 00:00:20,919 Speaker 3: When I was here and I. 6 00:00:20,880 --> 00:00:26,680 Speaker 1: Terminated China with one point four billion people, they were 7 00:00:26,720 --> 00:00:27,920 Speaker 1: paying thirty nine million. 8 00:00:27,960 --> 00:00:31,200 Speaker 4: We were paying five hundred million. It seemed a little 9 00:00:31,280 --> 00:00:31,880 Speaker 4: unfair to me. 10 00:00:32,200 --> 00:00:35,360 Speaker 1: The WHO has called on Trump to reconsider the order. 11 00:00:35,760 --> 00:00:37,920 Speaker 1: The loss of its top donor could put its work 12 00:00:37,960 --> 00:00:40,920 Speaker 1: on a Bola, HIV and Marburg at risk. 13 00:00:41,120 --> 00:00:44,640 Speaker 2: For over seven decades, WHSHOW and the United States of 14 00:00:44,680 --> 00:00:49,480 Speaker 2: America have saved countless lives and protected Americans and all 15 00:00:49,560 --> 00:00:53,560 Speaker 2: people from health threats. We hope the United States will reconsider. 16 00:00:53,840 --> 00:00:57,160 Speaker 1: On today's episode of The Next Africa Podcast, we'll ask 17 00:00:57,320 --> 00:01:00,640 Speaker 1: what this could mean for disease prevention in Africa, how 18 00:01:00,680 --> 00:01:02,760 Speaker 1: health agencies have reacted, and. 19 00:01:02,680 --> 00:01:04,080 Speaker 3: Who else might now step in. 20 00:01:07,400 --> 00:01:10,800 Speaker 1: I'm Jennifer's Abasaja and this is the Next Africa Podcast, 21 00:01:11,120 --> 00:01:14,279 Speaker 1: bringing you one story each week from the continent driving 22 00:01:14,319 --> 00:01:17,399 Speaker 1: the future of global growth with the context only Bloomberg 23 00:01:17,440 --> 00:01:23,400 Speaker 1: can provide. Joining us this week is Bloomberg's Healthcare and 24 00:01:23,440 --> 00:01:26,680 Speaker 1: consumer reporter Janis Q who is based here in Johannesburg 25 00:01:26,760 --> 00:01:29,240 Speaker 1: with us. Jannis, thanks us always for coming on. 26 00:01:29,560 --> 00:01:31,840 Speaker 4: Thank you. It's been a bit of a week, I know. 27 00:01:32,040 --> 00:01:34,240 Speaker 3: Right, and we're just getting started with a new administration. 28 00:01:34,520 --> 00:01:38,240 Speaker 1: Let's start with the basics here, because many people are 29 00:01:38,360 --> 00:01:42,600 Speaker 1: probably aware of what the who was or became aware 30 00:01:42,600 --> 00:01:46,280 Speaker 1: of the organization during the COVID pandemic. But maybe you 31 00:01:46,319 --> 00:01:50,080 Speaker 1: can spell out exactly what it is that this organization does. 32 00:01:51,480 --> 00:01:54,360 Speaker 4: It's a watchdog, an advice giver, and a hands on 33 00:01:54,360 --> 00:01:57,520 Speaker 4: tough organization. That is, it works to contain diseases like 34 00:01:57,560 --> 00:02:01,400 Speaker 4: the recent impox, polio and Marlburg virus rex. It also 35 00:02:01,600 --> 00:02:05,280 Speaker 4: categorizes the risk of the spread of diseases and that 36 00:02:05,400 --> 00:02:09,480 Speaker 4: helps it coordinate global efforts in combating these diseases. It 37 00:02:09,639 --> 00:02:14,080 Speaker 4: organizes programs, setting global standards and developing guidelines, so it 38 00:02:14,120 --> 00:02:18,240 Speaker 4: performs a lot of functions and rarely pulls together efforts 39 00:02:18,280 --> 00:02:20,680 Speaker 4: and funding for global health security. 40 00:02:21,880 --> 00:02:25,000 Speaker 1: And when we zero in on Africa, then Janesh, how 41 00:02:25,040 --> 00:02:26,799 Speaker 1: does their work get a bit more targeted? 42 00:02:27,720 --> 00:02:31,320 Speaker 4: So Africa has formed some of humanity's most devastating diseases 43 00:02:31,639 --> 00:02:34,960 Speaker 4: yellow fever, HIV, boler lesser among them, and yet the 44 00:02:34,960 --> 00:02:38,080 Speaker 4: continent has some of the lowest health spending and fust resources. 45 00:02:38,560 --> 00:02:42,079 Speaker 4: The WHOS focus its work on both strengthening health systems 46 00:02:42,160 --> 00:02:44,960 Speaker 4: to cope with climate related changes in the spread of 47 00:02:45,080 --> 00:02:48,480 Speaker 4: old diseases like malaria, and also prepare as best as 48 00:02:48,520 --> 00:02:52,800 Speaker 4: possible for emerging pathogens. With so many competing demands in Africa, 49 00:02:52,800 --> 00:02:56,080 Speaker 4: it's hard to single out a single focus, but certainly 50 00:02:56,080 --> 00:02:58,240 Speaker 4: some of the biggest disease killers in Africa since the 51 00:02:58,360 --> 00:03:02,160 Speaker 4: WHO was formed in nineteen four eight have been malaria, TB, 52 00:03:02,600 --> 00:03:05,920 Speaker 4: HIV and diarrhea illnesses such as cholera, So those are 53 00:03:05,960 --> 00:03:08,320 Speaker 4: big focus points even today. 54 00:03:08,800 --> 00:03:10,960 Speaker 1: And we had you on a few months ago, Jenna, 55 00:03:11,040 --> 00:03:14,560 Speaker 1: speaking about m parks when you mentioned a few of 56 00:03:14,600 --> 00:03:18,840 Speaker 1: the other diseases that have sort of proliferated on the continent. 57 00:03:19,080 --> 00:03:21,600 Speaker 1: What is that risk here if funding is pulled from 58 00:03:21,639 --> 00:03:23,840 Speaker 1: the WHO, especially on the continent. 59 00:03:24,240 --> 00:03:27,000 Speaker 4: Well, other than the millions of Africans who will siffer 60 00:03:27,000 --> 00:03:30,799 Speaker 4: and die, which really can't be underestimated, there is a 61 00:03:30,919 --> 00:03:34,800 Speaker 4: risk of mutated variants that scientists then have to scramble 62 00:03:34,840 --> 00:03:38,760 Speaker 4: to understand, and in some cases these variants may not 63 00:03:38,840 --> 00:03:41,920 Speaker 4: respond to vaccines and other interventions, so that's a big risk, 64 00:03:41,960 --> 00:03:44,680 Speaker 4: and of course the very real risk of global spread. 65 00:03:44,760 --> 00:03:47,360 Speaker 4: Even in remote areas in the Congo, people do business 66 00:03:47,760 --> 00:03:49,480 Speaker 4: and then they return home to various parts of the 67 00:03:49,480 --> 00:03:52,200 Speaker 4: world and spread is real. 68 00:03:53,200 --> 00:03:56,640 Speaker 1: So then it again, as we talk about quite a 69 00:03:56,640 --> 00:03:59,920 Speaker 1: bit with diseases, the diseases no no borders. 70 00:04:00,240 --> 00:04:01,040 Speaker 3: So when you talk. 71 00:04:00,840 --> 00:04:04,520 Speaker 1: About globally, this could if we do see the US 72 00:04:04,560 --> 00:04:07,840 Speaker 1: actually follow through on this plan to leave the WHO, 73 00:04:08,160 --> 00:04:10,000 Speaker 1: this could become a global issue. 74 00:04:10,680 --> 00:04:14,800 Speaker 4: Absolutely. The USE is the who's main source of funding, 75 00:04:15,240 --> 00:04:17,800 Speaker 4: so the impact will be huge. To put that into context, 76 00:04:17,880 --> 00:04:20,080 Speaker 4: if we look at the excitements in nineteen eighty when 77 00:04:20,120 --> 00:04:26,599 Speaker 4: smallpox was eradicated, it had taken immense coordinated efforts globally 78 00:04:26,720 --> 00:04:29,320 Speaker 4: and funding. So finally ridding the world of something like 79 00:04:29,480 --> 00:04:33,200 Speaker 4: HIV is also possible. But as Hiddeny Clark, who chased 80 00:04:33,200 --> 00:04:35,640 Speaker 4: the Lancet Advisory Board and Health and Climate Change set 81 00:04:35,680 --> 00:04:39,960 Speaker 4: in a panel in DeVos, it will take prioritization, political will, 82 00:04:40,040 --> 00:04:43,640 Speaker 4: hard cash, and of course dealing with equity issues. So 83 00:04:43,920 --> 00:04:46,400 Speaker 4: without that funding it doesn't work. 84 00:04:47,360 --> 00:04:49,520 Speaker 1: Stick with us, Jennis, when we come back, we're going 85 00:04:49,600 --> 00:04:52,159 Speaker 1: to talk about what the reaction has been since we 86 00:04:52,200 --> 00:04:55,000 Speaker 1: did hear this announcement from President Trump and who if 87 00:04:55,040 --> 00:04:58,560 Speaker 1: anyone could actually step in to fill the shortfall, we'll 88 00:04:58,560 --> 00:05:03,800 Speaker 1: be right back. Welcome back today on the podcast, we're 89 00:05:03,839 --> 00:05:06,920 Speaker 1: talking about President Trump's decision to withdraw the US from 90 00:05:06,960 --> 00:05:11,120 Speaker 1: the World Health Organization. JENSQ, our Healthcare and Consumer reporter 91 00:05:11,279 --> 00:05:12,120 Speaker 1: is still with us. 92 00:05:12,440 --> 00:05:14,840 Speaker 3: So it's only been a few days, as. 93 00:05:14,720 --> 00:05:17,440 Speaker 1: We were mentioning earlier in the podcast, but there has 94 00:05:17,480 --> 00:05:20,599 Speaker 1: been quite a bit of reaction to the news this week. 95 00:05:21,040 --> 00:05:23,560 Speaker 1: Have we heard from the WHO? What have some of 96 00:05:23,600 --> 00:05:25,000 Speaker 1: these organizations been saying. 97 00:05:25,240 --> 00:05:28,600 Speaker 4: The WHO certainly did put out a statement and it 98 00:05:28,640 --> 00:05:31,880 Speaker 4: is a serious concern. We have also heard from governments 99 00:05:31,920 --> 00:05:35,280 Speaker 4: in Africas and Bobby's finance minister says he sees two 100 00:05:35,360 --> 00:05:38,920 Speaker 4: hundred million dollars of US funding at stick after the decision. 101 00:05:39,560 --> 00:05:42,279 Speaker 4: There will likely be small over implications for the US 102 00:05:42,320 --> 00:05:45,919 Speaker 4: President's Emergency Plan for AIDS Relief known as PEPFAR and 103 00:05:46,000 --> 00:05:51,159 Speaker 4: this program, started twenty years ago by then President George W. Bush, 104 00:05:51,480 --> 00:05:54,440 Speaker 4: has arguably been one of the most impactful programs the 105 00:05:54,520 --> 00:05:58,400 Speaker 4: US has had and is relied upon in at least 106 00:05:58,680 --> 00:06:04,120 Speaker 4: seven countries. Probably aren't actually in Africa. These are serious concerns. 107 00:06:03,920 --> 00:06:08,200 Speaker 1: And so then you're mentioning the funding earlier. The US, 108 00:06:08,480 --> 00:06:10,800 Speaker 1: from what we know, provides just over one billion dollars 109 00:06:10,800 --> 00:06:14,600 Speaker 1: in funding. Are there other countries that are just as 110 00:06:14,600 --> 00:06:18,280 Speaker 1: significant in terms of plugging the funding gap. 111 00:06:18,400 --> 00:06:22,120 Speaker 4: As instan There aren't countries that come anywhere close to 112 00:06:22,160 --> 00:06:25,279 Speaker 4: that level of funding, but we have seen interest from 113 00:06:25,360 --> 00:06:28,000 Speaker 4: China in helping for the gap and other Asian and 114 00:06:28,040 --> 00:06:31,320 Speaker 4: Middle Eastern countries who will likely step up. It's worth 115 00:06:31,400 --> 00:06:34,040 Speaker 4: noting that this will also probably increase their influence on 116 00:06:34,080 --> 00:06:37,920 Speaker 4: global health, and that is something that I would imagine 117 00:06:38,279 --> 00:06:42,760 Speaker 4: many in DC are still weighing up and need to consider. 118 00:06:42,800 --> 00:06:44,400 Speaker 1: What do you mean by that, Janis I mean the 119 00:06:44,520 --> 00:06:46,919 Speaker 1: influence of global health? What does that actually look like? 120 00:06:47,720 --> 00:06:51,159 Speaker 4: So some funding goes to the WHO in a broad 121 00:06:51,160 --> 00:06:55,200 Speaker 4: context that helps paste off who work at the WHO, etc. 122 00:06:55,520 --> 00:06:59,880 Speaker 4: But some funding goes very specifically to certain programs, and 123 00:07:00,480 --> 00:07:03,760 Speaker 4: if you've got a country like China who are giving 124 00:07:03,880 --> 00:07:07,240 Speaker 4: that funding, some of that funding could be directed to 125 00:07:07,320 --> 00:07:11,680 Speaker 4: specific programs and that obviously just changes the influence. Also 126 00:07:11,800 --> 00:07:15,720 Speaker 4: when we look at continent like Africa, when you've got 127 00:07:16,320 --> 00:07:18,120 Speaker 4: to step away from health for a minute. But when 128 00:07:18,160 --> 00:07:21,760 Speaker 4: you've got China building the roads that lead to the mines, 129 00:07:22,280 --> 00:07:26,600 Speaker 4: that infrastructure is crucial to many many countries, and China 130 00:07:26,720 --> 00:07:29,480 Speaker 4: then gets access to the raw materials. It can be 131 00:07:29,560 --> 00:07:33,080 Speaker 4: similar in health, when things are directed very specifically to 132 00:07:33,240 --> 00:07:36,720 Speaker 4: certain programs, it can change the influence. 133 00:07:37,160 --> 00:07:40,040 Speaker 1: If we do see President Trump sticking with this promise, 134 00:07:40,280 --> 00:07:42,920 Speaker 1: would it have an effect on the other health agencies 135 00:07:42,960 --> 00:07:45,200 Speaker 1: on the continent, like the Africa CDC. 136 00:07:45,440 --> 00:07:49,440 Speaker 4: It definitely would. The extent to which it affects them 137 00:07:49,760 --> 00:07:52,360 Speaker 4: would have to still be seen. I would imagine that 138 00:07:52,800 --> 00:07:58,200 Speaker 4: if President Trump is looking internally more and is less 139 00:07:58,240 --> 00:08:03,240 Speaker 4: generous with global issa choose, he will probably pull funding 140 00:08:03,280 --> 00:08:06,000 Speaker 4: for a variety of things, and the who could then 141 00:08:06,120 --> 00:08:09,600 Speaker 4: be just the start. As I mentioned pep FAR. I 142 00:08:09,640 --> 00:08:14,400 Speaker 4: mean that that is an incredibly important program throughout Africa, 143 00:08:14,640 --> 00:08:18,440 Speaker 4: and it is directly linked to the US and the 144 00:08:18,520 --> 00:08:22,240 Speaker 4: US president and so you know, if he came out 145 00:08:22,440 --> 00:08:25,360 Speaker 4: and pulled that, it would have big impacts on other 146 00:08:25,480 --> 00:08:30,560 Speaker 4: organizations like Africa CDC if they need to divert funding 147 00:08:30,680 --> 00:08:33,640 Speaker 4: from things they are already using, you know, using it 148 00:08:33,679 --> 00:08:36,120 Speaker 4: for because they need to plug other gaps. As we've 149 00:08:36,160 --> 00:08:39,199 Speaker 4: discussed there are so many competing needs in Africa and 150 00:08:39,280 --> 00:08:43,679 Speaker 4: so if anything, there needs to be more funding, not less. 151 00:08:43,800 --> 00:08:48,080 Speaker 1: And is there any help for a U turn from Trump? 152 00:08:48,320 --> 00:08:50,400 Speaker 1: I know, we never really know what is coming next. 153 00:08:50,559 --> 00:08:52,160 Speaker 3: What are your sources telling you? 154 00:08:52,760 --> 00:08:54,800 Speaker 4: Well, the speed that he came out with this decision 155 00:08:54,960 --> 00:08:57,960 Speaker 4: doesn't look particularly promising at the stage. But as you say, 156 00:08:58,040 --> 00:09:01,199 Speaker 4: never say never, especially with President Trump's So I would 157 00:09:01,280 --> 00:09:03,840 Speaker 4: like to think that ultimately the risks to global health 158 00:09:03,880 --> 00:09:08,120 Speaker 4: security surely have to be taken seriously, and those conversations 159 00:09:08,240 --> 00:09:09,280 Speaker 4: hopefully will happen. 160 00:09:10,000 --> 00:09:13,360 Speaker 1: And finally, Janis, as we were mentioning, emparks was a 161 00:09:13,520 --> 00:09:16,280 Speaker 1: wide concern last year when we were talking about, you know. 162 00:09:16,280 --> 00:09:18,680 Speaker 3: Diseases in healthcare on the continent. 163 00:09:19,040 --> 00:09:22,680 Speaker 1: What is the focus now for you, especially now that 164 00:09:23,000 --> 00:09:26,720 Speaker 1: we're talking about this news coming from the US potentially, 165 00:09:26,760 --> 00:09:29,920 Speaker 1: I mean, what's the focus of the healthcare industry? 166 00:09:29,960 --> 00:09:31,640 Speaker 3: I guess here on the continent. 167 00:09:31,920 --> 00:09:35,080 Speaker 4: So this year in Africa, certainly, IMPOS continues to be 168 00:09:35,320 --> 00:09:38,960 Speaker 4: a big issue. Rates of spread of that disease have 169 00:09:39,280 --> 00:09:43,200 Speaker 4: not really dropped, and getting vaccines into arms is still 170 00:09:43,280 --> 00:09:47,120 Speaker 4: a big issue, especially for children. There are obviously other 171 00:09:47,800 --> 00:09:52,079 Speaker 4: diseases across the continents that are concerning. We've recently seen 172 00:09:52,320 --> 00:09:56,560 Speaker 4: an outbreak of Marburg in Tanzania. This bleeding fever is 173 00:09:57,080 --> 00:09:59,840 Speaker 4: got a high fertility rate and can spread quite easily, 174 00:10:00,320 --> 00:10:04,080 Speaker 4: healthcare officials often being at the forefront of the risk 175 00:10:04,280 --> 00:10:07,760 Speaker 4: as they're trying to help people. There's also it's been 176 00:10:07,760 --> 00:10:10,760 Speaker 4: a long time coming, but climate change is a big 177 00:10:10,800 --> 00:10:14,160 Speaker 4: issue in Africa. Arguably, Africa's the hardest hits and the 178 00:10:14,240 --> 00:10:19,679 Speaker 4: least responsible for climate change and disease spread changes as 179 00:10:19,760 --> 00:10:23,080 Speaker 4: globe bombs up, so we see floods, we see drafts 180 00:10:23,080 --> 00:10:26,679 Speaker 4: in areas that previously didn't have these problems, and with 181 00:10:26,800 --> 00:10:30,600 Speaker 4: that comes the risk of the spread of cholera and 182 00:10:31,280 --> 00:10:35,320 Speaker 4: mosquito borne diseases like malaria and even dingy. These are 183 00:10:36,040 --> 00:10:39,360 Speaker 4: our real problems and if anything, they need increased funding. 184 00:10:39,920 --> 00:10:43,120 Speaker 1: Jennis, thanks as always for joining us and for your reporting, 185 00:10:43,720 --> 00:10:47,240 Speaker 1: and you can read all of our coverage across Bloomberg platforms. 186 00:10:47,240 --> 00:10:51,680 Speaker 1: Now here's some of the other stories we've been following 187 00:10:51,760 --> 00:10:55,800 Speaker 1: across the region this week. Africa's biggest crude producer, in Nigeria, 188 00:10:55,920 --> 00:10:59,160 Speaker 1: has emerged from a year's long output slamp due to 189 00:10:59,200 --> 00:11:02,480 Speaker 1: improved secure city creating a quandary for the government. 190 00:11:03,400 --> 00:11:05,800 Speaker 3: Stretched public finances badly. 191 00:11:05,440 --> 00:11:08,880 Speaker 1: Need the extra revenue that would come from higher oil exports, 192 00:11:09,160 --> 00:11:11,800 Speaker 1: but the country is also under pressure to adhere to 193 00:11:11,880 --> 00:11:15,559 Speaker 1: OPEC PLUS production limits that have helped keep global crude 194 00:11:15,559 --> 00:11:20,319 Speaker 1: prices above seventy dollars a barrel. Analysts predict further growth 195 00:11:20,320 --> 00:11:23,720 Speaker 1: in Nigeria's output this year and a possible showdown with 196 00:11:23,800 --> 00:11:25,840 Speaker 1: OPEC Plus over the country's. 197 00:11:25,480 --> 00:11:28,520 Speaker 3: Quota and Angola. 198 00:11:28,120 --> 00:11:32,240 Speaker 1: Plans to sell stakes in its biggest telecommunications company unitel 199 00:11:32,400 --> 00:11:36,240 Speaker 1: Essay and two lenders in the coming months to attract investors. 200 00:11:36,640 --> 00:11:39,599 Speaker 1: That's according to the Minister of State for Economic Coordination, 201 00:11:39,920 --> 00:11:44,040 Speaker 1: Jose de Lima Masano. Masano made the announcement during an 202 00:11:44,080 --> 00:11:47,320 Speaker 1: interview with Bloomberg at the World Economic Forum in Davos 203 00:11:47,480 --> 00:11:52,560 Speaker 1: late Tuesday. Africa's third largest oil producer, will also dispose 204 00:11:52,559 --> 00:11:57,200 Speaker 1: of steaks in Banco de Fomento, Angola, its second largest lender, 205 00:11:57,280 --> 00:12:00,840 Speaker 1: and Standard Bank Group's local unit, he told us. And 206 00:12:00,920 --> 00:12:04,040 Speaker 1: you can follow these stories across Bloomberg, including the Next 207 00:12:04,040 --> 00:12:06,480 Speaker 1: African Newsletter. We'll put a link to that in our 208 00:12:06,480 --> 00:12:15,600 Speaker 1: show notes. This program was produced by Adrian Bradley. Don't 209 00:12:15,600 --> 00:12:18,560 Speaker 1: forget to follow and review this show wherever you usually 210 00:12:18,640 --> 00:12:22,920 Speaker 1: get your podcasts. I'm Jennifer's Abasoga. Thanks as always for listening. 211 00:12:23,080 --> 00:12:24,000 Speaker 1: We'll see you next time.