1 00:00:07,400 --> 00:00:10,960 Speaker 1: Hi, and welcome back to the Carol Markowitz Show on iHeartRadio. 2 00:00:11,440 --> 00:00:14,720 Speaker 1: I was looking for something else and I came across 3 00:00:15,040 --> 00:00:18,279 Speaker 1: this pupil from February the kind of thing that I'm 4 00:00:18,440 --> 00:00:23,599 Speaker 1: totally into that I found very interesting. Among adults ages 5 00:00:23,680 --> 00:00:27,320 Speaker 1: eighteen to thirty four, sixty nine percent of those who 6 00:00:27,480 --> 00:00:30,000 Speaker 1: have never been married say they want to get married 7 00:00:30,040 --> 00:00:33,800 Speaker 1: one day. Only about eight percent say a definitive they 8 00:00:33,840 --> 00:00:36,120 Speaker 1: don't want to get married. Sorry, I'm still a little 9 00:00:36,200 --> 00:00:39,919 Speaker 1: under the weather. My voice is just not recovering. Men 10 00:00:39,960 --> 00:00:43,160 Speaker 1: and women are about equally likely to say they want 11 00:00:43,200 --> 00:00:46,960 Speaker 1: to get married, which that sounds great. At least they're 12 00:00:47,000 --> 00:00:50,479 Speaker 1: sort of aligned on that issue. But when it comes 13 00:00:50,520 --> 00:00:54,840 Speaker 1: to having kids, the numbers skew. When asked about having 14 00:00:54,920 --> 00:00:58,520 Speaker 1: children again, fifty one percent of young adults who are 15 00:00:58,520 --> 00:01:00,840 Speaker 1: not parents say they want to have children one day, 16 00:01:01,360 --> 00:01:04,000 Speaker 1: three and ten say they're not sure, and eighteen percent 17 00:01:04,080 --> 00:01:06,760 Speaker 1: say they don't want to have children. But here's the 18 00:01:06,840 --> 00:01:10,679 Speaker 1: interesting part. While fifty seven percent of young men say 19 00:01:10,720 --> 00:01:14,319 Speaker 1: they want children one day, a smaller share of young 20 00:01:14,360 --> 00:01:17,640 Speaker 1: women forty five percent say the same. This is a 21 00:01:17,680 --> 00:01:21,880 Speaker 1: real shift. Think about it. It was always women dragging 22 00:01:21,920 --> 00:01:24,480 Speaker 1: men along. To the altar and moving along on the 23 00:01:24,520 --> 00:01:29,200 Speaker 1: baby making. That was always the picture that we had 24 00:01:29,640 --> 00:01:34,319 Speaker 1: of how relationships worked. Something has really changed now. The 25 00:01:34,440 --> 00:01:38,080 Speaker 1: usual explanation we hear for this is that women know 26 00:01:38,640 --> 00:01:40,679 Speaker 1: they'll have to do the bulk of the work when 27 00:01:40,720 --> 00:01:42,920 Speaker 1: there's a kid, and so they don't want to do it. 28 00:01:43,360 --> 00:01:45,679 Speaker 1: And this is seen as some kind of like anti man. 29 00:01:46,040 --> 00:01:47,760 Speaker 1: You know, they just don't put in the kind of 30 00:01:47,800 --> 00:01:51,280 Speaker 1: effort that women do. But what did men put in 31 00:01:51,360 --> 00:01:54,120 Speaker 1: more effort in the past? No, they do more today 32 00:01:54,120 --> 00:01:58,320 Speaker 1: than ever before. And did women in history not know 33 00:01:58,480 --> 00:02:00,840 Speaker 1: that they were going to be the primary caregivers, that 34 00:02:00,920 --> 00:02:04,120 Speaker 1: they were going to be the ones sort of doing 35 00:02:04,200 --> 00:02:07,360 Speaker 1: most of the parenting, Probably more in the past than 36 00:02:07,960 --> 00:02:11,440 Speaker 1: right now. So is that really the truth? Is it 37 00:02:11,480 --> 00:02:14,480 Speaker 1: that women are afraid of subsuming their lives to a child? 38 00:02:15,480 --> 00:02:20,040 Speaker 1: I say not exactly. I think it's the Sex and 39 00:02:20,080 --> 00:02:24,640 Speaker 1: the City effect. Childlessness is portrayed as sexy and fun, 40 00:02:25,240 --> 00:02:28,760 Speaker 1: while women with children, even Charlotte, a character on the 41 00:02:28,760 --> 00:02:33,600 Speaker 1: show who wanted kids so badly, are shown as struggling 42 00:02:33,800 --> 00:02:37,440 Speaker 1: through their lives. And I know, Sex and the City 43 00:02:37,440 --> 00:02:40,520 Speaker 1: it's an old reference. At this point, Maybe things have changed, 44 00:02:41,000 --> 00:02:44,000 Speaker 1: but they really haven't. It's not like newer shows have 45 00:02:44,200 --> 00:02:47,640 Speaker 1: shown something else. The show Girls from a few years 46 00:02:47,680 --> 00:02:50,560 Speaker 1: ago had one of the girls have a kid on 47 00:02:50,639 --> 00:02:55,200 Speaker 1: her own and show how impossibly difficult it was, and look, 48 00:02:55,480 --> 00:02:58,360 Speaker 1: it is hard to have kids, but the image we 49 00:02:58,440 --> 00:03:02,120 Speaker 1: get of it in popular media is just nowhere near 50 00:03:02,200 --> 00:03:05,799 Speaker 1: the truth. I don't know how we change it. It's 51 00:03:05,840 --> 00:03:09,919 Speaker 1: hard to portray the happiness of family and happy families 52 00:03:10,680 --> 00:03:14,320 Speaker 1: that don't come off as smug marrieds, as Bridget Jones 53 00:03:14,400 --> 00:03:17,080 Speaker 1: called it all those years ago. It almost seems like 54 00:03:17,120 --> 00:03:21,440 Speaker 1: you're bragging if you show happiness in your family life. 55 00:03:21,639 --> 00:03:25,560 Speaker 1: I also think an underrated point is that there's been 56 00:03:25,600 --> 00:03:29,320 Speaker 1: a lot of writing and talking over the years about 57 00:03:29,360 --> 00:03:34,000 Speaker 1: how loneliness is so deadly for men. I've written years ago, 58 00:03:34,120 --> 00:03:38,520 Speaker 1: I think it was twenty eighteen, about how deadly loneliness 59 00:03:38,600 --> 00:03:41,680 Speaker 1: can be, especially for men, and there were so many 60 00:03:41,800 --> 00:03:45,800 Speaker 1: articles around it at that time, just constant articles about 61 00:03:45,840 --> 00:03:49,200 Speaker 1: how even when men do find love and have a family, 62 00:03:49,440 --> 00:03:53,800 Speaker 1: some simply don't have friends, and that loneliness is really 63 00:03:53,840 --> 00:03:56,960 Speaker 1: bad for their health. Take out the relationship piece and 64 00:03:57,000 --> 00:04:00,880 Speaker 1: that problem gets far more severe. On the other hand, 65 00:04:01,200 --> 00:04:04,320 Speaker 1: haven't been told, hey, you're going to be lonely if 66 00:04:04,360 --> 00:04:07,800 Speaker 1: you don't find a life partner. They're led to believe 67 00:04:07,920 --> 00:04:10,640 Speaker 1: that they don't need a spouse at all, that their 68 00:04:10,640 --> 00:04:13,320 Speaker 1: girls will always be there for them to have brunch 69 00:04:13,440 --> 00:04:16,520 Speaker 1: or go to clubs, and kids are boring and ruin 70 00:04:16,560 --> 00:04:20,120 Speaker 1: the good time. I mean, I get believing that in 71 00:04:20,200 --> 00:04:24,080 Speaker 1: your twenties and maybe even into your thirties, but anyone 72 00:04:24,160 --> 00:04:27,600 Speaker 1: over forty can tell them how rare those outings will 73 00:04:27,640 --> 00:04:31,320 Speaker 1: be and how desperately you'll be watching the clock ready 74 00:04:31,320 --> 00:04:34,640 Speaker 1: to go to bed by ten pm. Happily, that's actually 75 00:04:34,680 --> 00:04:38,640 Speaker 1: me right now, eight forty four pm. Women don't get 76 00:04:38,680 --> 00:04:42,039 Speaker 1: a real picture of what life will be like. I 77 00:04:42,080 --> 00:04:45,320 Speaker 1: can't think of a single show or movie that portrays 78 00:04:45,360 --> 00:04:49,440 Speaker 1: a legitimately happy marriage or family. Yes, the book Anna 79 00:04:49,480 --> 00:04:53,520 Speaker 1: Karenna opens with the line, happy families are all alike. 80 00:04:53,800 --> 00:04:56,960 Speaker 1: Every unhappy family is unhappy in its own way. And 81 00:04:57,000 --> 00:05:01,000 Speaker 1: maybe people want to hear the unhappy unique story, but 82 00:05:01,640 --> 00:05:05,039 Speaker 1: the happy ones they're just as true. Coming up next, 83 00:05:05,160 --> 00:05:08,240 Speaker 1: an interview with Caroline Downey. Join us after the break. 84 00:05:11,760 --> 00:05:15,320 Speaker 2: Welcome back to the Carol Markowitz Show on iHeartRadio. My 85 00:05:15,400 --> 00:05:19,280 Speaker 2: guest today is Caroline Downey, staff writer at National Review 86 00:05:19,360 --> 00:05:22,960 Speaker 2: and visiting fellow at the Independent Women's Forum. Hi, Caroline, 87 00:05:23,040 --> 00:05:24,000 Speaker 2: so nice to have you on. 88 00:05:24,560 --> 00:05:28,279 Speaker 3: So great to be with you. Carol. So did you get. 89 00:05:28,080 --> 00:05:30,720 Speaker 2: Your start at National Review? I feel like that's what 90 00:05:30,800 --> 00:05:32,640 Speaker 2: I associate you with so closely. 91 00:05:33,600 --> 00:05:36,920 Speaker 3: Yes, in the journalism world, I did. I got in 92 00:05:37,000 --> 00:05:39,919 Speaker 3: through the ground floor basically as a newswriter. But it 93 00:05:39,960 --> 00:05:44,719 Speaker 3: was a really abrupt pivot from finance. Actually that you 94 00:05:44,760 --> 00:05:48,520 Speaker 3: know isn't very common, I don't think in conservative media, 95 00:05:49,000 --> 00:05:52,880 Speaker 3: but you know, essentially a senior editor at the time 96 00:05:52,920 --> 00:05:58,760 Speaker 3: in National Review, Charlie Cook vouched for me because he, yeah, 97 00:05:58,880 --> 00:06:02,000 Speaker 3: he moderated this debate I did way back when at 98 00:06:02,040 --> 00:06:04,680 Speaker 3: the Heritage Foundation. I was an intern and it was 99 00:06:04,760 --> 00:06:08,320 Speaker 3: like the classic libertarian versus conservatism debate that used to 100 00:06:08,360 --> 00:06:12,240 Speaker 3: be televised on c SPAN, and it was like defunct 101 00:06:12,240 --> 00:06:14,400 Speaker 3: for multiple years because of COVID. Then they brought it back, 102 00:06:14,480 --> 00:06:16,920 Speaker 3: but he moderated that, so, you know, I kind of 103 00:06:16,960 --> 00:06:19,839 Speaker 3: kept the connection and then I was like, Hey, I'd 104 00:06:19,839 --> 00:06:21,200 Speaker 3: love to come to National Review. 105 00:06:22,080 --> 00:06:23,920 Speaker 2: Which kind of that debate did you take? 106 00:06:24,680 --> 00:06:27,599 Speaker 3: Oh? I was Heritage, it wasn't CATO, but it was 107 00:06:28,320 --> 00:06:31,320 Speaker 3: very intense rivalry, though I remember at the time my 108 00:06:31,480 --> 00:06:35,800 Speaker 3: internship job description was like, I think I was helping 109 00:06:35,800 --> 00:06:39,159 Speaker 3: out with a development office, and I didn't do any 110 00:06:39,200 --> 00:06:43,640 Speaker 3: of that because they were giving me coaches and trainers. 111 00:06:43,760 --> 00:06:47,000 Speaker 3: I mean, it was a very serious like project between 112 00:06:47,000 --> 00:06:49,359 Speaker 3: the two bank tanks. They treated it kind of like 113 00:06:49,440 --> 00:06:52,480 Speaker 3: this because it was televised and it had been had 114 00:06:52,480 --> 00:06:56,160 Speaker 3: this long standing tradition, so we wanted to be as 115 00:06:56,200 --> 00:06:58,440 Speaker 3: prepared as possible. And it was me and this other 116 00:06:58,560 --> 00:07:01,440 Speaker 3: debater from a Gettysburg college, and the Cato kids that 117 00:07:01,480 --> 00:07:05,719 Speaker 3: were interning and doing the debate were ivy leaguers, so 118 00:07:05,880 --> 00:07:07,880 Speaker 3: I kind of felt you out of my league. 119 00:07:08,000 --> 00:07:11,480 Speaker 2: But you know, I'm sure that's not true. 120 00:07:12,000 --> 00:07:13,680 Speaker 3: But it was fine. It was I mean, it is 121 00:07:13,720 --> 00:07:17,840 Speaker 3: a very classic debate. I always wondered if they would 122 00:07:17,880 --> 00:07:21,880 Speaker 3: stop doing it, partially because now there's so much conflict 123 00:07:21,960 --> 00:07:25,480 Speaker 3: within the right that it's almost become moot to almost 124 00:07:26,120 --> 00:07:30,880 Speaker 3: spar with libertarians because now we're trying to suss out 125 00:07:31,040 --> 00:07:33,240 Speaker 3: the new right and the old right fact right. 126 00:07:33,680 --> 00:07:36,400 Speaker 2: So that's sort of why I was like, which side 127 00:07:36,440 --> 00:07:38,480 Speaker 2: of that were you want? Because I see heritage just 128 00:07:38,520 --> 00:07:42,760 Speaker 2: representing kind of all those sides. There's definitely libertarians at Heritage, 129 00:07:42,880 --> 00:07:47,280 Speaker 2: even though it is a kind of more classical conservative institution. 130 00:07:47,920 --> 00:07:52,160 Speaker 2: But I absolutely have you know, known libertarians that passed 131 00:07:52,160 --> 00:07:55,080 Speaker 2: through there. But do they still do that debate? That's 132 00:07:55,120 --> 00:07:58,960 Speaker 2: interesting because I also would think that that sort of defunct. 133 00:07:59,560 --> 00:08:03,040 Speaker 3: So they actually just resurrected it this year, and maybe 134 00:08:03,040 --> 00:08:06,480 Speaker 3: that was because of some like intern lobbying. But the 135 00:08:06,520 --> 00:08:09,520 Speaker 3: girl who I mean, there's there's two debaters on each side. 136 00:08:09,560 --> 00:08:12,280 Speaker 3: So the girl who's representing Heritage this year is actually 137 00:08:12,560 --> 00:08:16,400 Speaker 3: a friend of mine from Canada. So she's she's was 138 00:08:16,400 --> 00:08:18,480 Speaker 3: born in the US. She's a US citizen, but she 139 00:08:18,560 --> 00:08:21,120 Speaker 3: like grew up in Canada, so she has seen the 140 00:08:21,160 --> 00:08:26,360 Speaker 3: worst of the Trudeau you know, beame, and I mean 141 00:08:26,440 --> 00:08:30,840 Speaker 3: she's extremely articulate and enlightened, and I mean she loves 142 00:08:30,880 --> 00:08:33,400 Speaker 3: political philosophy, which was always what the debate was supposed 143 00:08:33,440 --> 00:08:38,520 Speaker 3: to be about, was about the philosophies of conservatism versus libertarianism, 144 00:08:38,600 --> 00:08:40,760 Speaker 3: which I remember at the time they told me, you know, 145 00:08:40,880 --> 00:08:43,439 Speaker 3: it's an ideology, it's not a not a philosophy. You 146 00:08:43,480 --> 00:08:46,160 Speaker 3: need to say that it's it's it's very axiomatic and 147 00:08:46,240 --> 00:08:48,559 Speaker 3: one size fits all and what you know that was 148 00:08:48,720 --> 00:08:50,800 Speaker 3: that was what we were told argue at the time. 149 00:08:50,840 --> 00:08:52,880 Speaker 3: But her name is Leanna, and she I kind of 150 00:08:52,880 --> 00:08:56,240 Speaker 3: consider her my protege, so I'm like, wow, okay, well 151 00:08:56,320 --> 00:09:01,360 Speaker 3: circle great next generation and she probably is a better 152 00:09:01,400 --> 00:09:04,160 Speaker 3: wrap for I think the American cause than a lot 153 00:09:04,160 --> 00:09:06,520 Speaker 3: of Americans. So, I mean, it's the Canadian thing is 154 00:09:06,520 --> 00:09:09,000 Speaker 3: actually a cool characteristic. 155 00:09:08,679 --> 00:09:10,840 Speaker 2: So funny. So Leanna, what's her last name? 156 00:09:11,559 --> 00:09:11,959 Speaker 3: Gordon? 157 00:09:13,080 --> 00:09:14,600 Speaker 2: Okay, yeah, we'll look her up. 158 00:09:15,040 --> 00:09:16,240 Speaker 3: Yeah, it's just interesting. 159 00:09:16,400 --> 00:09:19,560 Speaker 2: I do think that the people who survive, like you know, 160 00:09:19,840 --> 00:09:23,080 Speaker 2: places like Canada as a conservative, they do end up 161 00:09:23,120 --> 00:09:26,280 Speaker 2: having kind of the better arguments because they they've had 162 00:09:26,320 --> 00:09:27,120 Speaker 2: to fight for it. 163 00:09:27,200 --> 00:09:27,440 Speaker 3: You know. 164 00:09:27,520 --> 00:09:34,240 Speaker 2: It's like conservatives in liberal colleges or in institutions where 165 00:09:34,280 --> 00:09:38,600 Speaker 2: they have to make their arguments really pointed and strong, 166 00:09:38,920 --> 00:09:41,360 Speaker 2: and I think that they end up really do end 167 00:09:41,440 --> 00:09:45,000 Speaker 2: up representing a far better, stronger view of conservativism than 168 00:09:45,200 --> 00:09:47,640 Speaker 2: you know, maybe those of us who had it easier. 169 00:09:48,679 --> 00:09:52,160 Speaker 3: Yes, no, absolutely, that's sort of what she says. I mean, 170 00:09:52,240 --> 00:09:56,920 Speaker 3: just it is it's like a surveillance ish state from 171 00:09:56,920 --> 00:09:59,760 Speaker 3: what she tells me. And I forget what region of 172 00:09:59,760 --> 00:10:02,800 Speaker 3: the country she lives. In but she's I mean a 173 00:10:02,800 --> 00:10:05,559 Speaker 3: lot of people here protests for various reasons. I think 174 00:10:05,600 --> 00:10:09,560 Speaker 3: of like billboard Chris very amazing, you know mission he 175 00:10:09,640 --> 00:10:13,000 Speaker 3: has there to just like to evade you know, restrictions 176 00:10:13,040 --> 00:10:18,600 Speaker 3: on posting billboards that are you know, decrying gender ideology. 177 00:10:18,679 --> 00:10:21,320 Speaker 3: He'll literally wear them, which is a great hack and loophole. 178 00:10:21,520 --> 00:10:24,559 Speaker 3: When Leanna goes to all of these Canadian protests and 179 00:10:24,920 --> 00:10:29,240 Speaker 3: it's definitely way riskier there, I mean, it feels riskier. 180 00:10:29,880 --> 00:10:33,160 Speaker 3: I don't know if the the what the penalties are 181 00:10:33,640 --> 00:10:36,240 Speaker 3: compared to you know, for protesting in the US, if 182 00:10:36,320 --> 00:10:38,640 Speaker 3: things get out of hand or whatever. But I mean, 183 00:10:38,760 --> 00:10:42,520 Speaker 3: just to be in that spotlight in Canada, she strikes 184 00:10:42,559 --> 00:10:46,280 Speaker 3: me as particularly courageous and Carol, you your background, you know, 185 00:10:46,920 --> 00:10:49,960 Speaker 3: like your family, you know, Soviet Union, Like what was 186 00:10:50,080 --> 00:10:52,120 Speaker 3: how does what do you think about? 187 00:10:53,160 --> 00:10:54,920 Speaker 2: That's you know, that's sort of what I was thinking of, 188 00:10:55,200 --> 00:10:58,640 Speaker 2: is that if you end up being a freedom loving 189 00:10:59,679 --> 00:11:02,880 Speaker 2: person in a place where freedom is hard to come by, 190 00:11:03,160 --> 00:11:06,360 Speaker 2: you end up having the better arguments for why freedom 191 00:11:06,440 --> 00:11:09,360 Speaker 2: is necessary. We take a lot of stuff for granted here, 192 00:11:09,520 --> 00:11:13,080 Speaker 2: we just think it's all going to be okay, and 193 00:11:13,200 --> 00:11:15,240 Speaker 2: we think that we don't need to preserve some of 194 00:11:15,320 --> 00:11:17,640 Speaker 2: the really amazing things about us, just the fact that 195 00:11:17,679 --> 00:11:20,880 Speaker 2: so many Americans aren't impressed with the American system. We 196 00:11:20,960 --> 00:11:24,760 Speaker 2: have this incredible system that has lasted so long. And 197 00:11:24,800 --> 00:11:26,640 Speaker 2: you know, you have these French people, you know, France 198 00:11:26,720 --> 00:11:28,760 Speaker 2: will make fun of us for something, and I'll be like, 199 00:11:28,800 --> 00:11:31,800 Speaker 2: you've been through five republics in the time that we've 200 00:11:31,840 --> 00:11:34,840 Speaker 2: had our one, So you know, relax a little bit 201 00:11:34,880 --> 00:11:35,640 Speaker 2: over there, France. 202 00:11:36,920 --> 00:11:38,679 Speaker 3: But that's that's what I was thinking of. 203 00:11:39,040 --> 00:11:42,920 Speaker 2: And in Britain, you know, in places like Britain where protesters, 204 00:11:42,960 --> 00:11:45,200 Speaker 2: you know, if you have a pro British protester, they 205 00:11:45,240 --> 00:11:49,600 Speaker 2: could be arrested for racism. And it's like, what, no, 206 00:11:49,679 --> 00:11:52,000 Speaker 2: you know, so we take a lot of things for 207 00:11:52,080 --> 00:11:56,319 Speaker 2: granted here that I think people freedom loving people around 208 00:11:56,320 --> 00:11:58,840 Speaker 2: the world see and appreciate. 209 00:11:58,800 --> 00:12:01,320 Speaker 3: Yes, And it's nice when you come from another country 210 00:12:01,360 --> 00:12:04,040 Speaker 3: and you do have this like you treat our freedom, 211 00:12:04,040 --> 00:12:07,120 Speaker 3: it's particularly precious. And so there isn't this like self 212 00:12:07,160 --> 00:12:10,040 Speaker 3: hating impulse that a lot of these kind of coddled 213 00:12:10,080 --> 00:12:14,000 Speaker 3: westernized nations have, like France. The opening ceremony of the Olympics, 214 00:12:14,000 --> 00:12:16,920 Speaker 3: like obviously it was very tragic, very sad. Regardless of 215 00:12:16,920 --> 00:12:20,280 Speaker 3: whether it was technically blaspheming or not. Whatever they were 216 00:12:20,320 --> 00:12:23,880 Speaker 3: trying to you know, interpret, God knows, but it's just 217 00:12:23,920 --> 00:12:26,640 Speaker 3: like it shows that they are like kind of a 218 00:12:26,679 --> 00:12:32,559 Speaker 3: self flagellating country that's like deeply ashamed of their tradition 219 00:12:32,679 --> 00:12:35,959 Speaker 3: in history. And I mean, yeah, France is a national embarrassment, 220 00:12:36,280 --> 00:12:40,920 Speaker 3: not because just because it just debases itself, like it 221 00:12:40,960 --> 00:12:43,200 Speaker 3: almost enjoys doing that. And I mean a lot of 222 00:12:43,200 --> 00:12:44,640 Speaker 3: Western countries do that. 223 00:12:45,240 --> 00:12:47,400 Speaker 2: Right, We're going to take a quick break and be 224 00:12:47,559 --> 00:12:52,920 Speaker 2: right back on the Carol Marcowitch Show. I was in 225 00:12:53,200 --> 00:12:58,080 Speaker 2: Vietnam and Thailand and Singapore over the summer, and it 226 00:12:58,160 --> 00:13:00,480 Speaker 2: was so interesting to me. I mean, like high it 227 00:13:00,480 --> 00:13:03,920 Speaker 2: has tons of problems, lots of issues, lots of you know, 228 00:13:04,120 --> 00:13:08,960 Speaker 2: kind of questionable history, but when they talk about their culture, 229 00:13:09,040 --> 00:13:11,000 Speaker 2: they're very proud of it, and they're very proud of 230 00:13:11,080 --> 00:13:14,280 Speaker 2: their country, and they're very proud of everything. Even you know, 231 00:13:14,679 --> 00:13:17,520 Speaker 2: they'll talk about like wars that they lost, but it'll 232 00:13:17,600 --> 00:13:20,000 Speaker 2: just be from a point of but you know, we're 233 00:13:20,040 --> 00:13:22,640 Speaker 2: trying to rebuild and this is this is where we 234 00:13:22,679 --> 00:13:25,160 Speaker 2: are now. And they tell you the stories of their 235 00:13:25,240 --> 00:13:30,439 Speaker 2: various kings and just a pride in a country that 236 00:13:31,040 --> 00:13:33,280 Speaker 2: you're not allowed to have openly here. And I've always 237 00:13:33,280 --> 00:13:35,040 Speaker 2: said this, but I feel like I am allowed to 238 00:13:35,080 --> 00:13:37,160 Speaker 2: have it because it's like, oh, you're an immigrant, like whatever, 239 00:13:37,440 --> 00:13:40,719 Speaker 2: you could do whatever, you know, But people who were 240 00:13:40,720 --> 00:13:42,760 Speaker 2: born here and are so lucky and so blessed, I 241 00:13:42,760 --> 00:13:46,120 Speaker 2: don't think that they are allowed to openly be patriotic 242 00:13:46,440 --> 00:13:48,400 Speaker 2: lest people think there's something wrong with them. 243 00:13:48,720 --> 00:13:51,360 Speaker 3: No, especially among my generation. If you're not going on 244 00:13:51,440 --> 00:13:55,000 Speaker 3: an apology tour all the time for our country, you're 245 00:13:55,240 --> 00:13:58,520 Speaker 3: you're weird. Like you know, there's so many things to 246 00:13:58,520 --> 00:14:02,040 Speaker 3: be ashamed of, even though it's just unbelievable, like the 247 00:14:02,080 --> 00:14:05,320 Speaker 3: programming like from a young age of you know, kids 248 00:14:05,320 --> 00:14:08,160 Speaker 3: in K through twelve, Yeah, they grew up just I mean, 249 00:14:08,400 --> 00:14:12,600 Speaker 3: curriculum it's so like it wasn't for DeSantis and you know, 250 00:14:12,679 --> 00:14:15,679 Speaker 3: kind of restricting that type of curriculum that is like 251 00:14:15,800 --> 00:14:21,360 Speaker 3: just again blatantly self hating and just just not accurate. Like, 252 00:14:21,720 --> 00:14:26,320 Speaker 3: you know, it's so no wonder that most I think 253 00:14:26,320 --> 00:14:31,200 Speaker 3: it's most Americans would would have no interest in defending 254 00:14:31,240 --> 00:14:34,360 Speaker 3: their country, you know, or like fighting for their country, right, 255 00:14:34,440 --> 00:14:37,600 Speaker 3: I know that's kind of that's also the contentious within 256 00:14:37,640 --> 00:14:41,400 Speaker 3: the right today because there's the interventionist or the non interventionist. 257 00:14:41,480 --> 00:14:42,880 Speaker 3: But I just say, this is like the daughter of 258 00:14:42,920 --> 00:14:45,520 Speaker 3: a Vietnam veteran, who I mean that was like a 259 00:14:45,560 --> 00:14:49,400 Speaker 3: conflict that was very you know, I guess it's stale 260 00:14:49,480 --> 00:14:52,160 Speaker 3: made and decisive, like didn't go super well, doesn't isn't 261 00:14:52,160 --> 00:14:54,440 Speaker 3: tame as a victory. My my dad was one of 262 00:14:54,480 --> 00:14:56,560 Speaker 3: those people that came back, and you know, the veterans 263 00:14:56,560 --> 00:14:58,560 Speaker 3: did not get a welcome home at all because it 264 00:14:58,600 --> 00:15:01,040 Speaker 3: was they felt like they been lied to by the 265 00:15:01,040 --> 00:15:03,760 Speaker 3: government and all that. But even with all that clouding 266 00:15:04,160 --> 00:15:06,480 Speaker 3: you know, or should be clouding, like my dad's a 267 00:15:06,600 --> 00:15:09,760 Speaker 3: view of kind of American foreign policy. Like he he 268 00:15:09,880 --> 00:15:12,600 Speaker 3: was fiercely patriotic and could not understand why the young 269 00:15:12,680 --> 00:15:17,160 Speaker 3: generation wasn't and why they just don't have this kind 270 00:15:17,160 --> 00:15:21,720 Speaker 3: of dedication to country the way all their generations did. 271 00:15:22,040 --> 00:15:25,800 Speaker 2: Yeah, definitely, And when I was in Vietnam, I had 272 00:15:25,840 --> 00:15:29,160 Speaker 2: this thought in my head where no one is worse 273 00:15:29,280 --> 00:15:32,320 Speaker 2: off than a country that has won a war against America, 274 00:15:32,800 --> 00:15:36,080 Speaker 2: Like you know, Soul for example, is just in a 275 00:15:36,160 --> 00:15:40,560 Speaker 2: completely different place than Hanoi, and it's it's really interesting 276 00:15:40,600 --> 00:15:43,720 Speaker 2: to me of Iraq, you know, like they if they won, 277 00:15:44,600 --> 00:15:47,920 Speaker 2: they're not in a particularly amazing spot. But if you're 278 00:15:47,960 --> 00:15:51,240 Speaker 2: a country that has won a war against the United States, 279 00:15:51,280 --> 00:15:54,840 Speaker 2: you're you're probably worse off for it. So and it 280 00:15:55,120 --> 00:15:57,960 Speaker 2: was also interesting. I didn't I've never thought about it. 281 00:15:57,960 --> 00:16:00,720 Speaker 2: But they call it the American War and no, it's 282 00:16:00,760 --> 00:16:02,440 Speaker 2: the wow American War. 283 00:16:02,680 --> 00:16:06,680 Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, no, it's it's wild, like there's a lot 284 00:16:06,720 --> 00:16:10,680 Speaker 3: of Vietnam War buffs. Now you know, what's the movie? 285 00:16:10,960 --> 00:16:12,560 Speaker 3: I guess it was just the Post. It was about 286 00:16:12,600 --> 00:16:15,960 Speaker 3: the Pentagon Papers. I liked that one a lot. 287 00:16:16,520 --> 00:16:18,360 Speaker 2: To check it out. I haven't seen it. 288 00:16:18,640 --> 00:16:20,280 Speaker 3: I think I think that's what it's called. I think 289 00:16:20,320 --> 00:16:21,920 Speaker 3: it was about the the I think it was like 290 00:16:21,960 --> 00:16:26,440 Speaker 3: Meryl Street anyway. Yeah, no, foreign policy is like a 291 00:16:26,520 --> 00:16:27,120 Speaker 3: can of worms. 292 00:16:27,160 --> 00:16:32,760 Speaker 2: But as your what's your beat at National Review. 293 00:16:33,200 --> 00:16:35,840 Speaker 3: Well, it's actually not that at all. A lot of 294 00:16:35,880 --> 00:16:39,480 Speaker 3: culture culture war. It was education for a long time, 295 00:16:39,520 --> 00:16:41,520 Speaker 3: but now it's kind of morphed into you know, more 296 00:16:41,560 --> 00:16:47,360 Speaker 3: generalist stuff. And yeah, I think anything relating to cultures, 297 00:16:47,360 --> 00:16:52,000 Speaker 3: So I guess that's general ideology. Uh, you know, during COVID. 298 00:16:52,080 --> 00:16:56,560 Speaker 3: It was it was critical race theory. It was the 299 00:16:56,560 --> 00:17:00,440 Speaker 3: the teachers union, you know, conspiring with the government. It 300 00:17:00,560 --> 00:17:02,880 Speaker 3: was the I mean basically your your book, like that 301 00:17:03,080 --> 00:17:09,600 Speaker 3: was your book absolutely encapsulated every everything about the corruption 302 00:17:09,680 --> 00:17:12,480 Speaker 3: of that time with regards to children, you know, how 303 00:17:12,600 --> 00:17:17,200 Speaker 3: children were forsaken. And I think that's a very common 304 00:17:17,440 --> 00:17:21,480 Speaker 3: societal trend. We're just you know, neglecting children, you know, 305 00:17:22,119 --> 00:17:26,720 Speaker 3: just more and more, whether it's through you know, curriculum, 306 00:17:26,880 --> 00:17:29,680 Speaker 3: or locking them out of the classroom, or exposing them 307 00:17:29,680 --> 00:17:34,280 Speaker 3: to mature concepts that they are like not cognitively prepared for. 308 00:17:34,880 --> 00:17:35,080 Speaker 2: You know. 309 00:17:35,800 --> 00:17:38,400 Speaker 3: I think about when I was growing up and we 310 00:17:38,400 --> 00:17:41,120 Speaker 3: were my mom was ridiculed for this, but and maybe 311 00:17:41,200 --> 00:17:43,600 Speaker 3: maybe she was sheltering. I don't know. I'm very grateful 312 00:17:43,600 --> 00:17:46,000 Speaker 3: she sheltered me. If that's that's the case. She would 313 00:17:46,080 --> 00:17:50,920 Speaker 3: not show us certain entertainment content that was adult. 314 00:17:51,520 --> 00:17:53,720 Speaker 2: It was to be just a given, like you don't 315 00:17:53,800 --> 00:17:57,320 Speaker 2: show kids adult content, yes, because I mean, you are 316 00:17:57,359 --> 00:17:58,120 Speaker 2: what you consume. 317 00:17:58,640 --> 00:18:03,359 Speaker 3: It rewires the brain, you know. I think I've interviewed 318 00:18:03,440 --> 00:18:06,120 Speaker 3: so many detransitioners at this point, and there's a lot 319 00:18:06,160 --> 00:18:11,320 Speaker 3: of kind of common threads I've identified and many others have. Okay, 320 00:18:11,359 --> 00:18:14,800 Speaker 3: first of all, they're misdiagnosing autism, that's for sure. Second 321 00:18:14,880 --> 00:18:19,040 Speaker 3: of all, these kids probably found something online at a 322 00:18:19,040 --> 00:18:22,080 Speaker 3: young age because their parents were not that involved. There 323 00:18:22,119 --> 00:18:25,680 Speaker 3: wasn't enough supervision or you know, printal authority, and they 324 00:18:25,760 --> 00:18:29,119 Speaker 3: just got lost in a rabbit hole online that was 325 00:18:29,200 --> 00:18:34,119 Speaker 3: very perverse or degenerate, and it basically disoriented them to 326 00:18:34,160 --> 00:18:37,800 Speaker 3: such a degree where they developed body dysmorphia. And you know, 327 00:18:38,080 --> 00:18:41,800 Speaker 3: there's many many things social media, like the comparison trap there. 328 00:18:42,000 --> 00:18:44,840 Speaker 3: You know, that's hard enough for adults. It's hard enough 329 00:18:44,840 --> 00:18:49,200 Speaker 3: for adults to kind of what's the word, take themselves 330 00:18:49,240 --> 00:18:52,720 Speaker 3: out of the social media, you know, kind of dopamine 331 00:18:52,760 --> 00:18:56,879 Speaker 3: spikes for validation among your peers. Kids, they have no 332 00:18:56,960 --> 00:18:59,080 Speaker 3: idea how to do that. And that's before you even 333 00:18:59,119 --> 00:19:02,919 Speaker 3: get to sexual content, which is just you know, when 334 00:19:02,960 --> 00:19:05,639 Speaker 3: you're an innocent child and you're still your brain is 335 00:19:05,680 --> 00:19:10,280 Speaker 3: so forming, it's just like throws an absolute monkey wrench 336 00:19:10,280 --> 00:19:11,240 Speaker 3: into that process. 337 00:19:12,200 --> 00:19:16,600 Speaker 2: So, what would you say is our largest cultural problem of. 338 00:19:16,520 --> 00:19:17,119 Speaker 1: All of those? 339 00:19:18,560 --> 00:19:20,359 Speaker 3: I mean, okay, so I guess in the in the 340 00:19:20,480 --> 00:19:23,879 Speaker 3: vein of kind of we're forsaking the most vulnerable or 341 00:19:23,920 --> 00:19:26,560 Speaker 3: those who need our protection, like children. And I think 342 00:19:26,600 --> 00:19:30,280 Speaker 3: the reason maybe we're doing that is because there's kind 343 00:19:30,280 --> 00:19:34,920 Speaker 3: of an addiction to like convenience, addiction to like we're 344 00:19:34,960 --> 00:19:38,200 Speaker 3: just not paying attention to what's important, because I think 345 00:19:38,240 --> 00:19:43,960 Speaker 3: we're we're literally addicted to chasing highs and convenience, and 346 00:19:44,440 --> 00:19:47,359 Speaker 3: convenience I think was always the purpose of our of 347 00:19:47,400 --> 00:19:50,240 Speaker 3: our capitalistic system, or rather like comfort, like we should 348 00:19:50,240 --> 00:19:53,840 Speaker 3: be striving to create a prosperous nation where everybody can 349 00:19:53,920 --> 00:19:56,760 Speaker 3: enjoy its fruits or or can have the chance to 350 00:19:56,880 --> 00:20:01,120 Speaker 3: enjoy its fruits. Sure, but you know, like I think 351 00:20:01,160 --> 00:20:07,120 Speaker 3: too much decadence has has led us to we've abandoned 352 00:20:07,880 --> 00:20:11,040 Speaker 3: a lot a lot of things. In the process, we've 353 00:20:11,080 --> 00:20:15,640 Speaker 3: become like soft, I would say, And yeah, and now 354 00:20:15,640 --> 00:20:19,600 Speaker 3: it's all about kind of my immediate needs and wants. 355 00:20:19,640 --> 00:20:22,639 Speaker 3: And you know, I always thought that conservatism, what I 356 00:20:22,680 --> 00:20:26,960 Speaker 3: was taught, was like the Edmund Burke definition, that it 357 00:20:27,080 --> 00:20:32,080 Speaker 3: is about connecting the former generations with the future generations 358 00:20:32,119 --> 00:20:35,400 Speaker 3: and the present. So you always have this mind for posterity, 359 00:20:35,800 --> 00:20:38,879 Speaker 3: like what would help posterity, Like not what would create 360 00:20:39,240 --> 00:20:42,240 Speaker 3: comfort for me right now? But like how am I 361 00:20:42,320 --> 00:20:46,239 Speaker 3: going to you know, advance civilization in the future. How 362 00:20:46,240 --> 00:20:48,919 Speaker 3: am I going to set them up for success? And 363 00:20:48,960 --> 00:20:53,800 Speaker 3: that just isn't at all the mindset now, like not 364 00:20:53,920 --> 00:20:58,400 Speaker 3: at all. So yeah, I would say I delayed gratification. 365 00:20:58,480 --> 00:20:59,960 Speaker 2: We don't really know how to do that anymore. 366 00:21:00,920 --> 00:21:03,480 Speaker 3: No, No, we don't. We definitely, we definitely don't. It's 367 00:21:03,560 --> 00:21:05,840 Speaker 3: very immediate, and like I said, it's because we're inundated 368 00:21:05,880 --> 00:21:10,199 Speaker 3: with like stimuli that basically teaches us we can have 369 00:21:10,280 --> 00:21:12,960 Speaker 3: it all right now, like or you know, I think 370 00:21:13,000 --> 00:21:18,439 Speaker 3: it's partially because of online but yeah, no, that's and 371 00:21:18,480 --> 00:21:21,560 Speaker 3: my parents are older. They're my dad was you know, 372 00:21:21,840 --> 00:21:24,240 Speaker 3: like he passed away, you know, a couple of years ago, 373 00:21:24,280 --> 00:21:27,320 Speaker 3: but he, uh like was almost the greatest generation. And 374 00:21:27,359 --> 00:21:30,720 Speaker 3: my mom is almost seventy and I'm I mean they 375 00:21:31,160 --> 00:21:33,399 Speaker 3: they were grand grandparents as well. So I had kind 376 00:21:33,440 --> 00:21:36,439 Speaker 3: of a weird family structure. And I never like loved 377 00:21:36,440 --> 00:21:39,680 Speaker 3: that because all my friend's parents had young, like young 378 00:21:39,800 --> 00:21:42,439 Speaker 3: parents that were you know, doing activities with them. But 379 00:21:42,520 --> 00:21:46,280 Speaker 3: I'm so grateful now because they were so wise and 380 00:21:46,480 --> 00:21:48,199 Speaker 3: I felt like I kind of had a grandparent and 381 00:21:48,240 --> 00:21:51,760 Speaker 3: a parent like in one Yeah, and just to be 382 00:21:51,960 --> 00:21:55,359 Speaker 3: raised by someone who saw a different, like a drastically 383 00:21:55,440 --> 00:21:58,120 Speaker 3: different time. I mean, you know, your your parents, I think, 384 00:21:58,119 --> 00:21:59,840 Speaker 3: were also from from that air. 385 00:22:00,520 --> 00:22:02,120 Speaker 2: Although I'm a lot older than you. 386 00:22:02,480 --> 00:22:05,439 Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, no, I know. I mean my dad was 387 00:22:05,480 --> 00:22:11,320 Speaker 3: eighty three when he passed, and it's I wouldn't have 388 00:22:11,359 --> 00:22:15,240 Speaker 3: traded that for anything, because I have an immense gratitude 389 00:22:15,560 --> 00:22:19,320 Speaker 3: for kind of the morals of a different era. Of course, 390 00:22:19,320 --> 00:22:22,840 Speaker 3: there were problems, but there were huge There were huge 391 00:22:22,880 --> 00:22:27,240 Speaker 3: problems in those you know decades, fifties, sixty seventies, but 392 00:22:27,640 --> 00:22:30,399 Speaker 3: they my parents always talked about how like you talk 393 00:22:30,440 --> 00:22:33,520 Speaker 3: about the dating landscape today, and how how awful it 394 00:22:33,640 --> 00:22:36,720 Speaker 3: is for my generation. And the question is why. I 395 00:22:36,720 --> 00:22:39,399 Speaker 3: remember when I started navigating that world, my mom had 396 00:22:39,440 --> 00:22:40,960 Speaker 3: no idea what I was talking about. She's like, what 397 00:22:41,000 --> 00:22:43,040 Speaker 3: do you what do you mean? It's like that challenging 398 00:22:43,520 --> 00:22:45,040 Speaker 3: you know, you just find a nice man and then 399 00:22:45,080 --> 00:22:47,680 Speaker 3: you just settle down. I'm like, you don't understand, mom. 400 00:22:47,760 --> 00:22:51,320 Speaker 3: I feel like I'm in a silo and I have 401 00:22:51,359 --> 00:22:55,879 Speaker 3: to find this exact kind of recipe, not recipe like 402 00:22:55,920 --> 00:23:00,720 Speaker 3: these like these check boxes, not of superficial qual but 403 00:23:00,880 --> 00:23:03,760 Speaker 3: like internal qualities. I have to make sure like that 404 00:23:03,800 --> 00:23:08,360 Speaker 3: they have similar ideas, like similar worldview, you know, reverence 405 00:23:08,520 --> 00:23:10,399 Speaker 3: or respect for their family. I mean there's a lot 406 00:23:10,400 --> 00:23:13,239 Speaker 3: of things that are not givens today. To me, are 407 00:23:13,280 --> 00:23:15,840 Speaker 3: no negotiable, no negotiables, and they used to be just 408 00:23:16,000 --> 00:23:19,040 Speaker 3: accepted as fact. My mom said, like, you know, neighbors 409 00:23:19,119 --> 00:23:22,359 Speaker 3: would often like get along or maybe you date, like 410 00:23:22,680 --> 00:23:25,880 Speaker 3: within the town, because people were much more closely tied together. 411 00:23:26,520 --> 00:23:29,120 Speaker 3: There was something uniting a lot of people. And maybe 412 00:23:29,200 --> 00:23:31,200 Speaker 3: maybe she's exaggerating, but I think I. 413 00:23:31,119 --> 00:23:33,600 Speaker 2: Think she's probably not, and I think that that's something 414 00:23:33,600 --> 00:23:34,679 Speaker 2: that we're definitely missing. 415 00:23:34,760 --> 00:23:38,160 Speaker 3: I I kind of I mean, you know, not ta. 416 00:23:38,160 --> 00:23:40,440 Speaker 2: Vera's too off check. But I always wonder about why 417 00:23:40,680 --> 00:23:44,080 Speaker 2: people don't date, you know, more within their own communities, 418 00:23:44,119 --> 00:23:47,480 Speaker 2: like why it has to be somebody far away or 419 00:23:47,680 --> 00:23:52,440 Speaker 2: outside of their universe. Of course, there are obviously still 420 00:23:52,520 --> 00:23:56,240 Speaker 2: enclaves or people do date within the communities. But that's 421 00:23:56,240 --> 00:23:58,239 Speaker 2: also why I think it's so important to forge those 422 00:23:58,280 --> 00:24:01,800 Speaker 2: communities for your kids, like maybe that they'll meet somebody 423 00:24:01,840 --> 00:24:04,119 Speaker 2: like that and you'll have similar values and it'll be 424 00:24:04,240 --> 00:24:05,400 Speaker 2: an easier process. 425 00:24:05,960 --> 00:24:07,720 Speaker 3: Yeah, no, there have to. I think there has to 426 00:24:07,720 --> 00:24:11,320 Speaker 3: be stronger communities. I mean those are like those mediating 427 00:24:11,320 --> 00:24:17,520 Speaker 3: institutions that I mean, like Toauqueville talked about, and those 428 00:24:17,560 --> 00:24:20,120 Speaker 3: are those are the bulwarks first of all against many 429 00:24:20,600 --> 00:24:23,679 Speaker 3: you know, societal ills like yeah, whether that's you know 430 00:24:24,560 --> 00:24:28,080 Speaker 3: that social media influence or that's government you know, intervention 431 00:24:28,640 --> 00:24:31,800 Speaker 3: like strong community just is a repellent to all of 432 00:24:31,800 --> 00:24:35,879 Speaker 3: that because you're not your recourse is within your inner circle, 433 00:24:35,960 --> 00:24:39,240 Speaker 3: like that's where you go for help and assistance. And yeah, 434 00:24:39,280 --> 00:24:41,840 Speaker 3: I mean there's like no such thing today in dating 435 00:24:42,119 --> 00:24:44,280 Speaker 3: among my generation, or I don't see it. A lot 436 00:24:44,440 --> 00:24:47,520 Speaker 3: of like referrals or what's the word, like. 437 00:24:47,920 --> 00:24:50,840 Speaker 2: Like setting people up. I think that that's lacking for sure. 438 00:24:51,000 --> 00:24:52,680 Speaker 3: You know, I don't see that. I mean, it's all 439 00:24:52,720 --> 00:24:56,159 Speaker 3: apps because nobody is saying and nobody is bridging that gap. 440 00:24:56,240 --> 00:24:59,800 Speaker 3: And there also isn't really that third space between work 441 00:25:00,119 --> 00:25:03,880 Speaker 3: and leisure or working home rather yeah, working home. There's 442 00:25:03,920 --> 00:25:05,480 Speaker 3: really not really a third place where people can go. 443 00:25:05,520 --> 00:25:09,800 Speaker 3: And the bar is not exactly substitute for that. I'm 444 00:25:09,840 --> 00:25:12,440 Speaker 3: talking about a nice dinner party or you know, it's 445 00:25:12,520 --> 00:25:15,159 Speaker 3: maybe like a pickleball outing on a rooftop. I don't know, 446 00:25:15,440 --> 00:25:17,920 Speaker 3: you know what I mean, Yes. 447 00:25:19,119 --> 00:25:23,639 Speaker 2: You have kind of a very interesting career. I feel 448 00:25:23,640 --> 00:25:27,040 Speaker 2: like you are definitely going places. Do you feel like 449 00:25:27,080 --> 00:25:27,720 Speaker 2: you've made it? 450 00:25:30,040 --> 00:25:33,400 Speaker 3: No, not at all, but you're very grateful for the journey. 451 00:25:33,840 --> 00:25:37,440 Speaker 3: I am just I think the how I can't say 452 00:25:37,440 --> 00:25:39,920 Speaker 3: I've made it because I don't think you know, does 453 00:25:39,960 --> 00:25:41,760 Speaker 3: anyone really feel like they've made it? 454 00:25:42,200 --> 00:25:44,480 Speaker 2: Well? Well, I ask all my guests that question, and 455 00:25:44,600 --> 00:25:48,240 Speaker 2: I get a very large range of answers. But yeah, absolutely, 456 00:25:48,320 --> 00:25:50,920 Speaker 2: some people say, yes, I've made it, I'm done, I'm good, 457 00:25:51,200 --> 00:25:53,840 Speaker 2: Oh wow, this is where I want to be well, 458 00:25:54,040 --> 00:25:57,120 Speaker 2: and it's never there's no rhyme or reason to it. 459 00:25:58,000 --> 00:26:00,480 Speaker 3: So I think I have the privilege of working with 460 00:26:00,840 --> 00:26:05,480 Speaker 3: extremely brilliant minds that I'm constantly learning from. And I 461 00:26:05,920 --> 00:26:10,080 Speaker 3: know I haven't made it because I haven't stopped learning. Uh, 462 00:26:10,119 --> 00:26:12,560 Speaker 3: and I there's a lot more I have to learn, 463 00:26:12,800 --> 00:26:15,720 Speaker 3: and so that is not finished product at all. So 464 00:26:15,840 --> 00:26:18,840 Speaker 3: professionally no, But I mean I wear a lot of 465 00:26:18,880 --> 00:26:23,919 Speaker 3: hats like you know, TV, punditry now and investigative journalism, 466 00:26:24,000 --> 00:26:26,680 Speaker 3: and I'm kind of dabbling in all these areas and 467 00:26:26,920 --> 00:26:29,360 Speaker 3: I haven't like perfected or mastered any of them. And 468 00:26:29,520 --> 00:26:31,240 Speaker 3: I guess the question going forward is whether I should 469 00:26:31,280 --> 00:26:33,240 Speaker 3: just kind of double down in one area and just 470 00:26:33,240 --> 00:26:37,119 Speaker 3: stick with it, or or or keep exploring all the 471 00:26:37,119 --> 00:26:42,119 Speaker 3: different sides of you know, of media and are I 472 00:26:42,119 --> 00:26:45,240 Speaker 3: guess whatever whatever corner, whatever industry you would call this, 473 00:26:45,560 --> 00:26:47,880 Speaker 3: I'm not. Actually, I think it's this thing we do, 474 00:26:48,160 --> 00:26:51,760 Speaker 3: this thing we do, but you know, like socially and 475 00:26:52,359 --> 00:26:56,360 Speaker 3: like romantically, spiritually, i'd say it like almost well almost 476 00:26:56,560 --> 00:26:59,800 Speaker 3: made it. You know. I feel like I'm blessed with 477 00:27:00,080 --> 00:27:04,040 Speaker 3: you know, wonderful significant other, wonderful wonderful friends that are 478 00:27:04,600 --> 00:27:07,520 Speaker 3: like a culmination of a lot of like soul searching 479 00:27:07,560 --> 00:27:10,439 Speaker 3: and figuring out, you know, who I am. In college, 480 00:27:10,480 --> 00:27:13,520 Speaker 3: there were a lot of friends of convenience. Didn't have 481 00:27:13,640 --> 00:27:18,639 Speaker 3: really any any any strong compatibility with I guess you 482 00:27:18,680 --> 00:27:21,320 Speaker 3: could say, because it was all just you know, friends 483 00:27:21,320 --> 00:27:24,880 Speaker 3: of the friends, friends of utility or their sunshine. 484 00:27:24,960 --> 00:27:27,800 Speaker 2: Very typical of college. Yes, yeah, right is on your 485 00:27:27,800 --> 00:27:28,760 Speaker 2: dorm floor, you know. 486 00:27:28,920 --> 00:27:31,400 Speaker 3: Yes, Then as you get older, you start to look 487 00:27:31,440 --> 00:27:36,000 Speaker 3: for friends who share your values, and that's that's really important. 488 00:27:36,000 --> 00:27:38,480 Speaker 3: And you know, shout out to Hillsdale College. I didn't 489 00:27:38,480 --> 00:27:40,600 Speaker 3: go to Hillsdale College, but pretty much all my friends 490 00:27:40,600 --> 00:27:43,000 Speaker 3: are from there I Hillsdale. 491 00:27:43,080 --> 00:27:45,360 Speaker 2: I know, they're just amazing. 492 00:27:45,480 --> 00:27:48,199 Speaker 3: Hillsdale gave me pretty much. I mean not only my 493 00:27:48,560 --> 00:27:50,920 Speaker 3: my boyfriend, but all my like all my friends because 494 00:27:50,920 --> 00:27:54,200 Speaker 3: they're just on the same wavelength. And yeah, pretty cool. 495 00:27:54,320 --> 00:27:56,280 Speaker 3: So yeah, well I love. 496 00:27:56,160 --> 00:28:00,320 Speaker 2: Talking to Caroline. This has been so awesome. And here 497 00:28:00,920 --> 00:28:04,000 Speaker 2: with your best tip for my listeners on how they 498 00:28:04,040 --> 00:28:05,200 Speaker 2: can improve their lives. 499 00:28:06,119 --> 00:28:08,520 Speaker 3: So I'll tie it a bow on this. I would 500 00:28:08,520 --> 00:28:13,920 Speaker 3: just say, consume content that uplifts and energizes and improves 501 00:28:13,960 --> 00:28:18,200 Speaker 3: your soul, not garbage that is going to like corrode 502 00:28:18,720 --> 00:28:20,879 Speaker 3: your soul. And I think we need to be It 503 00:28:21,000 --> 00:28:24,280 Speaker 3: sounds like a juvenile piece of advice because it's like, 504 00:28:24,440 --> 00:28:26,840 Speaker 3: you know, what are we iPad kids? You know, we 505 00:28:26,880 --> 00:28:29,080 Speaker 3: can't we can't pull away from a screen. It's like no, 506 00:28:29,200 --> 00:28:32,359 Speaker 3: you know, whether it's reading or watching that you just 507 00:28:32,400 --> 00:28:35,000 Speaker 3: have to be very very careful about what you're consuming 508 00:28:35,000 --> 00:28:37,119 Speaker 3: because I mean you can get really lost on Twitter 509 00:28:37,160 --> 00:28:42,280 Speaker 3: doom scrolling, thinking everything's apocalyptic. Yeah, and you just have 510 00:28:42,360 --> 00:28:44,800 Speaker 3: to be able to withdraw and you know, realize what's 511 00:28:44,800 --> 00:28:49,080 Speaker 3: important and yeah, only like just try to try to 512 00:28:49,120 --> 00:28:52,200 Speaker 3: avoid things that are gonna, don't know, be toxic to you, 513 00:28:52,240 --> 00:28:55,160 Speaker 3: bump you out, Yeah yeah, Thank. 514 00:28:55,000 --> 00:28:58,120 Speaker 2: You, Caroline, Caroline Downey read her at National Review. Thanks 515 00:28:58,160 --> 00:28:59,000 Speaker 2: so much for coming on. 516 00:28:59,280 --> 00:29:00,480 Speaker 3: Thank you, Carol, Thanks. 517 00:29:00,240 --> 00:29:02,360 Speaker 1: So much for joining us on The Carol Markowitz Show. 518 00:29:02,440 --> 00:29:04,600 Speaker 1: Subscribe wherever you get your podcasts.