1 00:00:09,080 --> 00:00:11,920 Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome to Savor production of iHeartRadio. I'm Annie 2 00:00:11,920 --> 00:00:14,440 Speaker 1: Reese and I'm Lauren Vogelbaum, and today we have an 3 00:00:14,440 --> 00:00:19,279 Speaker 1: episode for you about Rabbit. Yes, and I know some 4 00:00:19,360 --> 00:00:21,840 Speaker 1: of you are hearing that, and I'm like, no, we 5 00:00:21,920 --> 00:00:25,160 Speaker 1: will talk about it in a minute. But yeah, I'm very, 6 00:00:25,239 --> 00:00:29,160 Speaker 1: very excited because I don't think this is a surprise 7 00:00:29,160 --> 00:00:30,800 Speaker 1: to anybody. But I'm a huge fan of the Last 8 00:00:30,800 --> 00:00:34,519 Speaker 1: of Us. Huh. And as we're recording this, this season 9 00:00:34,680 --> 00:00:38,879 Speaker 1: finale is this Sunday, uh huh. And we wanted to 10 00:00:38,920 --> 00:00:40,839 Speaker 1: do one. I wanted to do one, and Lauren was 11 00:00:40,920 --> 00:00:45,600 Speaker 1: very nice about the Last of Us, and there were 12 00:00:45,640 --> 00:00:47,880 Speaker 1: a couple of food options, but I felt like Rabbit 13 00:00:48,600 --> 00:00:52,720 Speaker 1: Rabbit was a good one. Yeah, yeah, and certainly so. 14 00:00:53,040 --> 00:00:55,600 Speaker 1: I have not played the games, but I have been 15 00:00:55,640 --> 00:01:01,680 Speaker 1: watching the show, and that third episode with Nick Offerman 16 00:01:01,760 --> 00:01:04,679 Speaker 1: in it is one of just the best episodes of 17 00:01:04,680 --> 00:01:10,160 Speaker 1: television I've ever seen. Probably it was so lovely and 18 00:01:11,120 --> 00:01:15,560 Speaker 1: a lot and I think I think a lot. But 19 00:01:15,720 --> 00:01:24,520 Speaker 1: lovely is like the reason that you enjoy this franchise. Yes, oh, yes, devastating. 20 00:01:24,760 --> 00:01:29,200 Speaker 1: I probably played each of the games fifteen times each wow. Yes, 21 00:01:29,640 --> 00:01:33,520 Speaker 1: And I was telling Lauren, I think I could make 22 00:01:33,560 --> 00:01:36,560 Speaker 1: some money with the Twitch channel because I'm pretty good. 23 00:01:37,760 --> 00:01:40,880 Speaker 1: I can I can customize your experience by how quickly 24 00:01:40,959 --> 00:01:42,360 Speaker 1: you want it to be or if you want to 25 00:01:42,360 --> 00:01:44,319 Speaker 1: read all the know if I can do all those things, 26 00:01:44,520 --> 00:01:47,640 Speaker 1: all right, So I'm thinking about it. The funny thing is, 27 00:01:47,760 --> 00:01:51,800 Speaker 1: and we're not going to spoil I don't think we're 28 00:01:51,800 --> 00:01:55,080 Speaker 1: going to spoil anything. But the game came out in 29 00:01:55,080 --> 00:02:00,520 Speaker 1: twenty thirteen, so it's very interesting. Um. But in the game, 30 00:02:01,040 --> 00:02:04,080 Speaker 1: that whole scene with Nick Offerman's character Bill and Frank, 31 00:02:04,440 --> 00:02:08,720 Speaker 1: it doesn't happen in the game, right because you're you're, you're, 32 00:02:08,760 --> 00:02:13,000 Speaker 1: you're listening to them over the radio. You don't, Yeah, 33 00:02:13,040 --> 00:02:15,880 Speaker 1: you never. You don't see that much of them in 34 00:02:15,880 --> 00:02:17,920 Speaker 1: the game. Yeah, oh no, you just see the end 35 00:02:17,960 --> 00:02:23,320 Speaker 1: of their relationship. And that's all I'll say. But there 36 00:02:23,480 --> 00:02:27,760 Speaker 1: is a infamous rabbit scene in the game that is 37 00:02:27,840 --> 00:02:30,080 Speaker 1: not in the show, although they did hint at it 38 00:02:30,919 --> 00:02:32,960 Speaker 1: um in the most recent episode, and it's not a 39 00:02:32,960 --> 00:02:35,600 Speaker 1: big spoiler at all, but basically it's like the cutest 40 00:02:36,800 --> 00:02:39,080 Speaker 1: there's a lot of videos on YouTube of I would 41 00:02:39,080 --> 00:02:44,080 Speaker 1: say jerks, usually dudes, showing this to our girlfriends. But 42 00:02:44,160 --> 00:02:46,680 Speaker 1: there's like a it's a beautiful shot and it's like 43 00:02:46,720 --> 00:02:48,760 Speaker 1: a close up on a rabbit and snow is glistening 44 00:02:48,800 --> 00:02:51,080 Speaker 1: and you're like, oh and then an arrow just fly 45 00:02:51,880 --> 00:02:56,639 Speaker 1: throat and blood us Oh wow. Yeah. Yeah, Well, so 46 00:02:56,720 --> 00:03:03,440 Speaker 1: there's rabbits in the Last of Us. Um and Binging 47 00:03:03,480 --> 00:03:08,880 Speaker 1: with Babbish just did an episode on what the dish 48 00:03:08,919 --> 00:03:11,840 Speaker 1: that villain Frank do eat in the show. So okay, 49 00:03:11,880 --> 00:03:13,720 Speaker 1: if you wanted to learn more about that, you can 50 00:03:13,720 --> 00:03:17,519 Speaker 1: go check it out. Um it is big in our culture. 51 00:03:17,560 --> 00:03:20,000 Speaker 1: Rabbits are big in our culture. I was just like, 52 00:03:20,080 --> 00:03:22,119 Speaker 1: off the top of my head, I thought of Watership Down, 53 00:03:22,120 --> 00:03:28,880 Speaker 1: which is terrifying. Thumper from Bambi, the Easter Bunny, velveteen Rabbit, 54 00:03:29,560 --> 00:03:33,480 Speaker 1: Monty Python. Um frequently bought up in d and Dames. 55 00:03:33,560 --> 00:03:40,440 Speaker 1: By the way, Lauren, absolutely yeah, Donnie Darko, Jessica Rabbit, bugs, 56 00:03:40,480 --> 00:03:46,840 Speaker 1: bunny like, etcetera, etcetera. Well Yeah, yes, uh, Jessica rabbit 57 00:03:46,920 --> 00:03:49,880 Speaker 1: being married to Roger Rabbit, who is an actual rabbit. Yeah, 58 00:03:49,920 --> 00:03:54,480 Speaker 1: I mean, I mean a cartoon rabbit, but anyway, Uh yeah, 59 00:03:54,240 --> 00:04:00,280 Speaker 1: the white rabbit from Alice in Wonderland, Peter Rabbit bunicula. Yes, yeah, 60 00:04:00,360 --> 00:04:06,640 Speaker 1: popular fixture on this show. Sure, yes, uh. And we 61 00:04:06,680 --> 00:04:08,920 Speaker 1: are going to talk about some of the impact of 62 00:04:09,120 --> 00:04:12,400 Speaker 1: that in terms of eating rabbit, because again, we are 63 00:04:12,440 --> 00:04:18,640 Speaker 1: a food show ostensibly. Ostensibly, I will say I had 64 00:04:18,760 --> 00:04:22,919 Speaker 1: rabbits as a kid, and as I said in the 65 00:04:22,920 --> 00:04:25,039 Speaker 1: turtle episode, I really bad like with pets. So my 66 00:04:25,120 --> 00:04:29,880 Speaker 1: rabbit's names were Amber and Fluffy. Oh they both died 67 00:04:30,000 --> 00:04:34,640 Speaker 1: untimely deaths um. I would visit Fluffy's grave at least 68 00:04:35,560 --> 00:04:39,760 Speaker 1: very like daily for a while. But my brother had 69 00:04:39,800 --> 00:04:43,120 Speaker 1: this rabbit called Shack, and Shack got in a scrap 70 00:04:43,200 --> 00:04:47,039 Speaker 1: with this dog and came out on the other side victorious, 71 00:04:47,080 --> 00:04:50,080 Speaker 1: like a scar on his ears. Wow. So Shack lived 72 00:04:50,800 --> 00:04:56,600 Speaker 1: many years because he could jump you see. Oh oh sure, yeah, 73 00:04:55,640 --> 00:05:01,680 Speaker 1: yeah yeah. I don't have very much much personal experience 74 00:05:01,720 --> 00:05:05,200 Speaker 1: of rabbits. Most most of the ones that I've met 75 00:05:05,200 --> 00:05:07,960 Speaker 1: have been really mean. Like I've known a lot of 76 00:05:08,120 --> 00:05:12,200 Speaker 1: very angry rabbits that didn't want anything to do with me, 77 00:05:12,520 --> 00:05:16,360 Speaker 1: and they made it very clear, right, and which is fair, 78 00:05:16,400 --> 00:05:17,920 Speaker 1: I guess. I mean, you know, they were up to 79 00:05:17,960 --> 00:05:23,080 Speaker 1: their own rabbit stuff, like hating people. I suppose that 80 00:05:24,680 --> 00:05:26,800 Speaker 1: I I don't know, I know plenty of people who 81 00:05:26,839 --> 00:05:29,560 Speaker 1: who grew up with pet rabbits and loved them very much. 82 00:05:30,600 --> 00:05:34,560 Speaker 1: Holly Fry has a very sweet, very sad, very funny 83 00:05:34,720 --> 00:05:40,039 Speaker 1: rabbit story. Yeah about her, about her sweet French grandmama 84 00:05:40,080 --> 00:05:47,800 Speaker 1: coming and visiting and deeply misunderstanding what the children meant 85 00:05:47,880 --> 00:05:54,880 Speaker 1: by we have a special rabbit set aside. Ah, yes, yeah, 86 00:05:54,920 --> 00:06:03,479 Speaker 1: I see, yeah, yeah, Well that's okay. There all these 87 00:06:03,480 --> 00:06:06,400 Speaker 1: other pathways are opening up in my mind. I will 88 00:06:06,400 --> 00:06:10,480 Speaker 1: tell you last night when I was I struggled asleep 89 00:06:10,680 --> 00:06:13,760 Speaker 1: and I was thinking about this rabbit thing. And now 90 00:06:13,800 --> 00:06:16,279 Speaker 1: I've got a whole conspiracy theory about what happened to 91 00:06:16,320 --> 00:06:20,480 Speaker 1: my rabbit amber. But it is for a different pots. Okay, 92 00:06:21,880 --> 00:06:24,120 Speaker 1: all right, I'm curious, but we do have a lot 93 00:06:24,160 --> 00:06:26,640 Speaker 1: of material to cover. We do, we do? And I 94 00:06:26,680 --> 00:06:28,360 Speaker 1: will say I have eaten rabbit, but I would say, 95 00:06:28,400 --> 00:06:31,040 Speaker 1: like maybe three times in my whole life. Oh wow, 96 00:06:31,400 --> 00:06:35,360 Speaker 1: not much. I yeah, I've got about I I do 97 00:06:35,440 --> 00:06:38,360 Speaker 1: enjoy it and um uh could not count the number 98 00:06:38,400 --> 00:06:42,960 Speaker 1: of times. Yeah. Oh interesting, Okay, Well I guess this 99 00:06:43,120 --> 00:06:46,680 Speaker 1: rings those too, awk question. I guess it does. Rabbit, 100 00:06:49,880 --> 00:06:54,200 Speaker 1: what is it? Well, rabbits are a type of small 101 00:06:54,240 --> 00:06:57,640 Speaker 1: mammal that can be raised or hunted for their meat. 102 00:06:58,040 --> 00:07:00,760 Speaker 1: They reproduce quickly and only live a years at most, 103 00:07:01,000 --> 00:07:03,200 Speaker 1: during which time they can grow to about four pounds 104 00:07:03,480 --> 00:07:06,280 Speaker 1: or two kilos or so. And they are real cute, 105 00:07:06,800 --> 00:07:09,479 Speaker 1: long ears, long hind legs that they used to leap, 106 00:07:09,880 --> 00:07:13,360 Speaker 1: very soft and fuzzy. You got those twitchy little noses. Yeah. 107 00:07:13,480 --> 00:07:16,640 Speaker 1: Rabbit meat is considered a white meat. It's mild and 108 00:07:16,680 --> 00:07:21,040 Speaker 1: flavor a little bit gamy or or earthy. They're well muscled, 109 00:07:21,040 --> 00:07:22,880 Speaker 1: and certain cuts can be a little tough, like the 110 00:07:22,920 --> 00:07:26,360 Speaker 1: meat from from those powerful hind legs. So rabbit is 111 00:07:26,400 --> 00:07:29,960 Speaker 1: often cooked low and slow, frequently bone in in liquid 112 00:07:30,000 --> 00:07:31,840 Speaker 1: to get you know, like the most out of the animal, 113 00:07:31,920 --> 00:07:35,760 Speaker 1: as in a stew or braise. It's like a it's 114 00:07:35,800 --> 00:07:41,280 Speaker 1: like meaty or pork, but from a tiny pig. It's 115 00:07:41,320 --> 00:07:45,360 Speaker 1: like a chicken that you're genetically motivated to like think 116 00:07:45,440 --> 00:07:51,280 Speaker 1: is adorable and want to care for. To me, rabbit 117 00:07:51,320 --> 00:07:54,520 Speaker 1: meat is it's really homey, even though I didn't like 118 00:07:54,560 --> 00:07:57,480 Speaker 1: grow up with it. Like it tastes sort of simple, 119 00:07:57,760 --> 00:08:00,520 Speaker 1: like not in a negative connotation. It's it's just like 120 00:08:01,000 --> 00:08:09,480 Speaker 1: nice without being a complicated. It's it's it's unpretentious. Yeah, yeah, 121 00:08:09,480 --> 00:08:11,960 Speaker 1: it's not. It's like every time you bite into it. 122 00:08:11,960 --> 00:08:14,960 Speaker 1: It's nothing that's super special. But at the same time 123 00:08:14,960 --> 00:08:19,200 Speaker 1: it's so comforting. It's like, oh yeah, yeah, it's just nice. Yeah, 124 00:08:19,240 --> 00:08:25,400 Speaker 1: it's just a nice thing. Yeah. Rabbits and their cousins 125 00:08:25,560 --> 00:08:31,720 Speaker 1: hairs are in their own family Um paridiate No, no, Laporidae. Sure, 126 00:08:31,800 --> 00:08:34,640 Speaker 1: let's go with that. UM. And rabbit farming is called 127 00:08:34,920 --> 00:08:38,400 Speaker 1: cuniculture um, after the species name for the European rabbit, 128 00:08:38,520 --> 00:08:42,400 Speaker 1: which is a cuniculus. Uh. They are a social mammal. 129 00:08:42,440 --> 00:08:45,520 Speaker 1: They live in groups and are hierarchical um. They'll have 130 00:08:45,559 --> 00:08:48,000 Speaker 1: like a lead buck or male and a lead female 131 00:08:48,120 --> 00:08:52,240 Speaker 1: or dough. They're from temperate climates and like burrowing. Um. 132 00:08:52,280 --> 00:08:55,000 Speaker 1: They're herbivores and we'll eat just about any plant matter 133 00:08:55,280 --> 00:08:58,000 Speaker 1: m in the wild. They'll forage like tender growing things 134 00:08:58,000 --> 00:09:01,240 Speaker 1: in the warm months and strip bar from hardier plants 135 00:09:01,240 --> 00:09:05,160 Speaker 1: in the winter. Their teeth never stopped growing. Yeah, that's 136 00:09:05,200 --> 00:09:08,040 Speaker 1: my mom hated that. That's horrific. That's like one of 137 00:09:08,040 --> 00:09:10,800 Speaker 1: the worst sentences I can imagine uttering out loud. I 138 00:09:10,880 --> 00:09:13,280 Speaker 1: have a picture I can show you I don't ever 139 00:09:13,360 --> 00:09:17,840 Speaker 1: want to see it. I great, it's it's very disturbing 140 00:09:17,880 --> 00:09:22,080 Speaker 1: to me that their teeth never stopped growing anyway. Their 141 00:09:22,200 --> 00:09:24,600 Speaker 1: coats can come in any number of patterns and colors 142 00:09:24,600 --> 00:09:27,320 Speaker 1: and lengths of hair. They are sometimes raised for that 143 00:09:27,400 --> 00:09:31,640 Speaker 1: fur and either shorn or pelted. And right, they really 144 00:09:31,679 --> 00:09:35,240 Speaker 1: are like the saying is true. They really are prolific breeders. 145 00:09:35,559 --> 00:09:38,600 Speaker 1: Their pregnancies only last about a month and rabbits can 146 00:09:38,640 --> 00:09:42,640 Speaker 1: bear like eight kits or babies per pregnancy, so a 147 00:09:42,760 --> 00:09:47,280 Speaker 1: mature dough can produce like forty kits a year. They 148 00:09:47,320 --> 00:09:52,240 Speaker 1: grow to full size in just two to four months. However, 149 00:09:53,400 --> 00:09:55,040 Speaker 1: as a as a farm animal, they are a little 150 00:09:55,040 --> 00:09:57,440 Speaker 1: bit more delicate and hands on than a lot of 151 00:09:57,440 --> 00:10:00,199 Speaker 1: other livestock. Like kits need to spend their first month 152 00:10:00,240 --> 00:10:04,080 Speaker 1: with their mother. They can be aggressive in groups and 153 00:10:04,280 --> 00:10:07,839 Speaker 1: that can lead to a lot of animal death before 154 00:10:07,840 --> 00:10:12,520 Speaker 1: they reach their their harvest weight. But a bunch of 155 00:10:12,559 --> 00:10:16,760 Speaker 1: research is being done into the potential of rabbit farming 156 00:10:17,160 --> 00:10:22,120 Speaker 1: as like unconventional in heavy quotes protein source, especially in 157 00:10:22,160 --> 00:10:26,640 Speaker 1: places where larger mammals are less sustainable. And I mean, 158 00:10:26,800 --> 00:10:28,720 Speaker 1: you know, like they are pretty great as a small 159 00:10:28,760 --> 00:10:32,200 Speaker 1: scale type of livestock because like they do reproduce quickly 160 00:10:32,200 --> 00:10:34,960 Speaker 1: and grow rapidly, and they're small, you know, they don't 161 00:10:35,000 --> 00:10:37,400 Speaker 1: take up a whole lot of space. They can forage 162 00:10:37,559 --> 00:10:40,240 Speaker 1: or be fed on like farm scraps and buy products, 163 00:10:40,800 --> 00:10:45,040 Speaker 1: and they grow more efficiently than some larger mammals like 164 00:10:45,080 --> 00:10:48,640 Speaker 1: cattle or pigs, and their diets can be easily manipulated 165 00:10:48,679 --> 00:10:51,680 Speaker 1: to increase the amount of micronutrients like a like like 166 00:10:51,800 --> 00:10:57,920 Speaker 1: vitamin E that their meat contains. Different varieties can be 167 00:10:57,960 --> 00:11:00,319 Speaker 1: a little bit larger or a little bit smaller. There 168 00:11:00,360 --> 00:11:04,960 Speaker 1: are hundreds of domesticated varieties of rabbits, and many places 169 00:11:04,960 --> 00:11:07,600 Speaker 1: where they've been introduced to have wild varieties as well. 170 00:11:08,280 --> 00:11:11,920 Speaker 1: You can raise them yourself or find rabbits sold whole 171 00:11:12,200 --> 00:11:15,520 Speaker 1: or or in cuts or in products like sausages, though 172 00:11:15,520 --> 00:11:17,320 Speaker 1: in the United States you might need to track down 173 00:11:17,320 --> 00:11:19,880 Speaker 1: like a specialty butcher or a small farm or a 174 00:11:19,880 --> 00:11:22,960 Speaker 1: purchase online. It is a lean meat and right can 175 00:11:22,960 --> 00:11:25,320 Speaker 1: be can be a little bit tough, so brazen and 176 00:11:25,360 --> 00:11:28,199 Speaker 1: stewing are common forms of cooking. Sometimes I like a 177 00:11:28,280 --> 00:11:33,680 Speaker 1: nice wine sauce or a mustard sauce. Oh yeah, well, 178 00:11:33,720 --> 00:11:40,440 Speaker 1: I guess this brings us to our second very important question. Yes, 179 00:11:40,800 --> 00:11:46,079 Speaker 1: is rabbit really Does rabbit really pair well with a Bourgelais? Yes, 180 00:11:47,200 --> 00:11:52,079 Speaker 1: I don't know. You've got to tell me the answers. Yes, 181 00:11:52,120 --> 00:11:56,000 Speaker 1: the answers yes, that's a frank and Bill would not 182 00:11:56,160 --> 00:12:00,400 Speaker 1: have done us wrong on that one. This is the 183 00:12:00,480 --> 00:12:04,079 Speaker 1: last of us reference. If you haven't seen the episode, Yeah, 184 00:12:04,240 --> 00:12:07,640 Speaker 1: the two bond over a meal of I think like 185 00:12:07,640 --> 00:12:13,040 Speaker 1: a like a roasted rabbit, perhaps served with a Bogelais valage. 186 00:12:13,440 --> 00:12:17,160 Speaker 1: And uh right, it's it's this nice little moment of 187 00:12:17,200 --> 00:12:19,920 Speaker 1: like of leg oh man who knows to pair rabbit 188 00:12:20,000 --> 00:12:23,720 Speaker 1: with Boujelais. Um. Then I love how the other characters 189 00:12:23,760 --> 00:12:25,080 Speaker 1: are like, oh, I know, I don't look like the 190 00:12:25,120 --> 00:12:28,040 Speaker 1: type and thanks, like, now you do you do? It's 191 00:12:28,240 --> 00:12:31,600 Speaker 1: very oh, it's very dear. Um. Any anyway, I watched 192 00:12:31,640 --> 00:12:34,280 Speaker 1: that episode if you if you like upsetting things, Um, 193 00:12:34,360 --> 00:12:38,800 Speaker 1: it's great. Uh okay. And we have talked before on 194 00:12:38,840 --> 00:12:42,120 Speaker 1: the show about Bougelais nouveaux, which is a very young 195 00:12:42,160 --> 00:12:44,680 Speaker 1: wine meant to be consumed immediately. This is not what 196 00:12:44,720 --> 00:12:46,880 Speaker 1: we're talking about, um here, this is not what they 197 00:12:46,880 --> 00:12:50,559 Speaker 1: were pouring there, right. This is a Boujelais Valage, which 198 00:12:50,840 --> 00:12:52,439 Speaker 1: um and the one that they were pouring on the 199 00:12:52,480 --> 00:12:56,840 Speaker 1: show is specifically from this. This very common in America 200 00:12:56,920 --> 00:13:01,520 Speaker 1: brand Louis jadel Um. But okay, So, Boujelais volage is 201 00:13:01,600 --> 00:13:05,079 Speaker 1: a type of wine from the northern region of Boujelais 202 00:13:05,400 --> 00:13:08,560 Speaker 1: in France, and it's made mostly from game grapes. Tends 203 00:13:08,600 --> 00:13:11,920 Speaker 1: to taste like juicy, a little bit spicy flavors, including 204 00:13:12,000 --> 00:13:14,800 Speaker 1: like like strawberry and cherry in there, those kind of 205 00:13:14,840 --> 00:13:17,680 Speaker 1: like bright red fruits. Um. It's light to medium and 206 00:13:17,679 --> 00:13:20,559 Speaker 1: body not supertannic and sort of like rabbit, it's just 207 00:13:20,640 --> 00:13:23,800 Speaker 1: kind of nice, like it's not overwhelming, um, which is 208 00:13:23,840 --> 00:13:28,600 Speaker 1: important because rabbit is sort of a delicate meat. And yeah, 209 00:13:28,760 --> 00:13:32,920 Speaker 1: Beulais Valage shows up, like always shows up on pairing 210 00:13:32,960 --> 00:13:37,600 Speaker 1: recommendations for rabbit, along with stuff like peanot noir. Oh. 211 00:13:37,640 --> 00:13:39,880 Speaker 1: I love that. And it is funny because I saw 212 00:13:39,920 --> 00:13:42,120 Speaker 1: I saw a few articles after that episode came yeah 213 00:13:42,800 --> 00:13:47,079 Speaker 1: where everyone and I will say I've had some sense 214 00:13:47,120 --> 00:13:54,240 Speaker 1: then as well. Yeah, it's uh yeah, Luisiado is very common. 215 00:13:55,160 --> 00:13:58,120 Speaker 1: I think it's like the number one French wine sold 216 00:13:58,120 --> 00:14:00,640 Speaker 1: in the United States or that's like like a marketing 217 00:14:00,679 --> 00:14:02,160 Speaker 1: line that I saw on their website as I was 218 00:14:02,240 --> 00:14:05,240 Speaker 1: doing this reading today, And yeah, you can buy a 219 00:14:05,240 --> 00:14:11,160 Speaker 1: bottle for like thirteen fifteen bucks, totally affordable. Yeah, yes, yes, yes, yes, Well, 220 00:14:11,679 --> 00:14:14,480 Speaker 1: thank you for answering that very important question. It brings 221 00:14:14,559 --> 00:14:19,360 Speaker 1: us to another point. What about the nutrition? A rabbit 222 00:14:19,520 --> 00:14:22,080 Speaker 1: is lean? It's it's high in protein, low and fat. 223 00:14:22,560 --> 00:14:24,800 Speaker 1: Got a good spread of minerals of vitamins, other micro 224 00:14:24,920 --> 00:14:28,880 Speaker 1: nutrients in there. Uh yeah, M eat a vegetable, heat 225 00:14:28,880 --> 00:14:33,320 Speaker 1: a vegetable. Yeah, we do have some numbers for you. 226 00:14:33,800 --> 00:14:38,040 Speaker 1: We do, okay. As of the early twenty teens, about 227 00:14:38,160 --> 00:14:41,920 Speaker 1: one point eight million metric tons of rabbit meat we're 228 00:14:41,960 --> 00:14:46,760 Speaker 1: being produced globally every year. China was producing like forty 229 00:14:46,760 --> 00:14:51,720 Speaker 1: percent of that, mostly for export. Other leading producers were Italy, Spain, Egypt, 230 00:14:51,760 --> 00:14:56,440 Speaker 1: and France. And in Italy, rabbit farming makes up like 231 00:14:56,720 --> 00:15:00,400 Speaker 1: nine percent of the gross domestic product. Whoa, it is 232 00:15:00,480 --> 00:15:07,120 Speaker 1: the fourth largest animal farming venture there. That's interesting. I know, 233 00:15:07,600 --> 00:15:11,960 Speaker 1: I had no idea either. As of the late nineteen nineties, 234 00:15:12,280 --> 00:15:16,080 Speaker 1: the cost to produce rabbit meat was more than double 235 00:15:16,400 --> 00:15:19,560 Speaker 1: the cost to produce chicken, turkey, or pork, and was 236 00:15:19,600 --> 00:15:23,280 Speaker 1: also way higher than beef. It was like two dollars 237 00:15:23,280 --> 00:15:27,560 Speaker 1: and eleven cents a kilo to make rabbit happen, whereas 238 00:15:27,600 --> 00:15:29,880 Speaker 1: it was like a buck twenty eight per kilo for 239 00:15:29,960 --> 00:15:32,720 Speaker 1: beef and under a buck per kilo for the rest. 240 00:15:33,280 --> 00:15:37,880 Speaker 1: So yeah, so it just does not lend itself to 241 00:15:38,320 --> 00:15:41,480 Speaker 1: large scale farming the way that some of those other 242 00:15:42,040 --> 00:15:47,800 Speaker 1: animals do, right, And that's something we'll talk about throughout 243 00:15:47,840 --> 00:15:50,800 Speaker 1: the history. And also, yeah, kind of makes it hard 244 00:15:50,840 --> 00:15:53,520 Speaker 1: to pin down some of these numbers because I couldn't 245 00:15:53,640 --> 00:15:57,200 Speaker 1: find too many about rabbit consumption in the United States. 246 00:15:57,200 --> 00:15:59,480 Speaker 1: But one source I found posted that according to the 247 00:15:59,560 --> 00:16:03,200 Speaker 1: usd A, about five hundred thousand rabbits were sold live 248 00:16:03,320 --> 00:16:09,480 Speaker 1: by farms for any purpose in twenty seventeen. But that 249 00:16:09,560 --> 00:16:13,440 Speaker 1: can trast wildly with the number from the American Rabbit 250 00:16:13,520 --> 00:16:16,600 Speaker 1: Breeders of America because they claim that the amount of 251 00:16:16,680 --> 00:16:20,520 Speaker 1: rabbit sold for food is somewhere around fifty million, and 252 00:16:20,600 --> 00:16:22,680 Speaker 1: that the discrepancy is due to the fact that a 253 00:16:22,720 --> 00:16:26,840 Speaker 1: lot of those sales are not on the USDA's radar. 254 00:16:27,000 --> 00:16:29,920 Speaker 1: They're sold from small farms, like they're just kind of 255 00:16:30,680 --> 00:16:36,400 Speaker 1: flying beneath what they're monitoring. Yeah, huh, and it is interesting. 256 00:16:36,520 --> 00:16:39,920 Speaker 1: Like here in the US, rabbit seems to be either 257 00:16:40,480 --> 00:16:42,800 Speaker 1: a thing that you eat because it is local and 258 00:16:42,880 --> 00:16:47,240 Speaker 1: like you can't afford other proteins, or a thing that 259 00:16:47,320 --> 00:16:51,480 Speaker 1: you eat because it's local and you're buying like fancy 260 00:16:51,520 --> 00:16:54,800 Speaker 1: dishes made with it from fancy restaurants. It's a very 261 00:16:54,880 --> 00:16:59,320 Speaker 1: like like white tablecloth kind of protein. There's a survey 262 00:16:59,560 --> 00:17:02,160 Speaker 1: in the early nineteen nineties that reported that people in 263 00:17:02,160 --> 00:17:06,880 Speaker 1: Louisiana who ate or would eat rabbit either made less 264 00:17:06,920 --> 00:17:10,120 Speaker 1: than twenty five thousand dollars a year or more than 265 00:17:10,160 --> 00:17:14,480 Speaker 1: fifty thousand, with a very little in between. Oh yeah, 266 00:17:14,520 --> 00:17:19,040 Speaker 1: that is interesting, really fascinating. I feel like one of 267 00:17:19,080 --> 00:17:21,880 Speaker 1: the dishes I had it was a very fancy restaurant 268 00:17:21,880 --> 00:17:26,480 Speaker 1: and it was like um ravioli with rabbit in the middle. Yeah, 269 00:17:26,600 --> 00:17:29,480 Speaker 1: so good. Oh which, speaking of I want to shout 270 00:17:29,480 --> 00:17:35,679 Speaker 1: out Swattie listeners who a long time ago wrote in 271 00:17:36,240 --> 00:17:39,600 Speaker 1: and sent us this recipe for fancy chef br d ravioli. 272 00:17:40,119 --> 00:17:43,000 Speaker 1: Huh and chef your Rabbitli was featured in the fourth 273 00:17:43,040 --> 00:17:44,760 Speaker 1: episode of the Last of Us. And let me tell 274 00:17:44,800 --> 00:17:47,440 Speaker 1: you I have been making that recipe probably twice a 275 00:17:47,480 --> 00:17:52,480 Speaker 1: week since then. So appreciate it. Oh dang, okay, I've 276 00:17:52,480 --> 00:17:58,400 Speaker 1: really enjoyed it. Spicy, spicy, spicy. Um. Well, back to rabbits, 277 00:17:59,400 --> 00:18:02,480 Speaker 1: because at least in the US, they're kind of a 278 00:18:02,560 --> 00:18:05,440 Speaker 1: largely in the no type of food when it comes 279 00:18:05,480 --> 00:18:10,760 Speaker 1: to these small farms and they're produced on this smaller scale. Generally. 280 00:18:11,000 --> 00:18:13,439 Speaker 1: They did see a boost of popularity during the supply 281 00:18:13,560 --> 00:18:17,399 Speaker 1: chain issues of the pandemic, but that was mostly for 282 00:18:17,560 --> 00:18:21,040 Speaker 1: home chefs because in the early days of the pandemic, 283 00:18:21,119 --> 00:18:25,000 Speaker 1: chefs at restaurants had kind of the opposite problem where 284 00:18:25,000 --> 00:18:28,800 Speaker 1: they needed simpler meats that were easy to put into 285 00:18:28,960 --> 00:18:32,840 Speaker 1: go containers. So rabbit didn't really fit the sure. Yeah, 286 00:18:32,880 --> 00:18:35,760 Speaker 1: and I guess for people who are less familiar with it, 287 00:18:35,840 --> 00:18:38,080 Speaker 1: like I feel like in those early days, we were 288 00:18:38,119 --> 00:18:41,679 Speaker 1: also like comfort food driven. We were like I just 289 00:18:41,720 --> 00:18:45,520 Speaker 1: want a burger, Like I just want a pork loin, Like, 290 00:18:45,640 --> 00:18:48,520 Speaker 1: just give me something familiar and easy to put in 291 00:18:48,560 --> 00:18:51,320 Speaker 1: my face because I don't have any I don't have 292 00:18:51,359 --> 00:18:55,200 Speaker 1: any brain space left for anything else. Yeah, yeah, for sure. 293 00:18:58,080 --> 00:19:02,080 Speaker 1: Oh but do you have the history for years? Oh 294 00:19:02,119 --> 00:19:04,280 Speaker 1: my heck, we do. I am excited to get into it, 295 00:19:04,320 --> 00:19:05,879 Speaker 1: and we are going to do that as soon as 296 00:19:05,880 --> 00:19:07,400 Speaker 1: we get back from a quick break for a word 297 00:19:07,440 --> 00:19:19,040 Speaker 1: from our sponsors, and we're back. Thank you sponsor, Yes, 298 00:19:19,200 --> 00:19:23,639 Speaker 1: thank you. Okay. So rabbits, there are a lot of 299 00:19:23,640 --> 00:19:27,320 Speaker 1: different types of rabbits. I'll say that to start, there 300 00:19:27,359 --> 00:19:29,879 Speaker 1: are fifteen varieties of wild rabbit that are native to 301 00:19:29,960 --> 00:19:35,080 Speaker 1: North America, just North America. They have long been incorporated 302 00:19:35,119 --> 00:19:37,560 Speaker 1: into the diet of Native Americans and have been a 303 00:19:37,560 --> 00:19:42,120 Speaker 1: part of indigenous mythology. Archaeological evidence out of Europe suggests 304 00:19:42,160 --> 00:19:45,480 Speaker 1: that as far back as twenty thousand years ago people 305 00:19:45,520 --> 00:19:51,399 Speaker 1: were hunting and eating rabbits, and because they're you know, 306 00:19:51,480 --> 00:19:57,520 Speaker 1: typically small, they were consumed immediately in general, as opposed 307 00:19:57,560 --> 00:20:00,000 Speaker 1: to being preserved. And so this means that in Europe 308 00:20:00,080 --> 00:20:03,320 Speaker 1: up they were eaten across the continent relatively regularly, but 309 00:20:03,359 --> 00:20:08,359 Speaker 1: they weren't usually processed or preserved. But by at least 310 00:20:08,400 --> 00:20:11,840 Speaker 1: the first century BC, people were fattening up rabbits they 311 00:20:11,960 --> 00:20:15,359 Speaker 1: kept in hutches for the slaughter and the I would say, 312 00:20:15,400 --> 00:20:17,919 Speaker 1: one of the through lines throughout this history is people 313 00:20:17,960 --> 00:20:21,880 Speaker 1: fighting about when they got domesticated. Oh yeah, so this 314 00:20:22,560 --> 00:20:24,480 Speaker 1: people are like well they were doing this, but that 315 00:20:24,560 --> 00:20:30,600 Speaker 1: doesn't mean domestication. Yeah, I believe a lot of research 316 00:20:30,640 --> 00:20:32,560 Speaker 1: has been done. It has it has been We are 317 00:20:32,600 --> 00:20:35,000 Speaker 1: going to talk about it extensively. And I love this 318 00:20:35,480 --> 00:20:37,520 Speaker 1: and I feel like and I honestly feel like part 319 00:20:37,520 --> 00:20:39,919 Speaker 1: of this is like because rabbits are kind of like 320 00:20:39,960 --> 00:20:43,760 Speaker 1: they remind me in temperament of cats that like that 321 00:20:43,920 --> 00:20:45,920 Speaker 1: don't have claws, so they have like less to say 322 00:20:45,960 --> 00:20:49,080 Speaker 1: to you about it, but they're still but they're really 323 00:20:49,240 --> 00:20:52,000 Speaker 1: I mean, like like they have an emotion and they 324 00:20:52,000 --> 00:20:58,000 Speaker 1: want you to know about it, like they sure do. Yeah, yeah, 325 00:20:58,600 --> 00:21:03,120 Speaker 1: you can ask my mom. Anyway. I did want to 326 00:21:03,119 --> 00:21:06,760 Speaker 1: bring up some stuff about hairs okay, yeah, which are 327 00:21:06,800 --> 00:21:10,439 Speaker 1: not rabbits. They are closely related. They are very closely related. 328 00:21:10,440 --> 00:21:12,680 Speaker 1: And I almost had a panic attack those ones where 329 00:21:12,680 --> 00:21:13,760 Speaker 1: I got to the end and I was like, wait 330 00:21:13,760 --> 00:21:16,280 Speaker 1: a minute, well I have to talk about hair as well. 331 00:21:16,760 --> 00:21:21,199 Speaker 1: Am I missing an entire half of this outline exactly exactly. 332 00:21:21,600 --> 00:21:24,160 Speaker 1: I did want to mention some of the early history 333 00:21:24,200 --> 00:21:27,679 Speaker 1: of hairs, though, because I really wanted to know what 334 00:21:27,720 --> 00:21:31,639 Speaker 1: the heck is up with the easter bunny okay, yeah, 335 00:21:32,280 --> 00:21:35,919 Speaker 1: which in Europe is known as the Easter hair. Sure, okay, 336 00:21:35,960 --> 00:21:38,960 Speaker 1: so this is going to be a very abbreviated okay story, 337 00:21:39,080 --> 00:21:41,880 Speaker 1: No love it though, let's yeah, let's go yes, all right, So, 338 00:21:42,280 --> 00:21:46,840 Speaker 1: going back to Neolithic times, European hairs were given ritual 339 00:21:47,119 --> 00:21:52,760 Speaker 1: burials alongside humans. Okay, and some archaeologists believe that the 340 00:21:52,840 --> 00:21:55,600 Speaker 1: hairs one of the reasons this was happening was they 341 00:21:55,600 --> 00:22:00,240 Speaker 1: were meant to be symbolic of rebirth. Julius Caesar did 342 00:22:00,240 --> 00:22:03,200 Speaker 1: that British folks didn't eat hairs because of their religious 343 00:22:03,280 --> 00:22:09,359 Speaker 1: importance in five hundred fifteen BC. Okay, But meanwhile, in 344 00:22:09,480 --> 00:22:13,440 Speaker 1: Greek mythology, they were sacred to Aphrodite. They were used 345 00:22:13,480 --> 00:22:17,479 Speaker 1: to represent desire. Apparently, they were used to symbolize how 346 00:22:17,520 --> 00:22:21,359 Speaker 1: the virgin Mary didn't give in to sexual temptation. She 347 00:22:21,480 --> 00:22:24,040 Speaker 1: was often painted with a hair or rabbit, usually a 348 00:22:24,040 --> 00:22:29,240 Speaker 1: white hair or rabbit in Renaissance art, which made me 349 00:22:29,280 --> 00:22:33,080 Speaker 1: wonder if that's why they're there's that hair in the Bitch, 350 00:22:33,240 --> 00:22:35,560 Speaker 1: the movie, which Lauren and I have talked about on 351 00:22:35,640 --> 00:22:38,399 Speaker 1: movie Crush. If you want to go yeah, yeah, no, 352 00:22:38,600 --> 00:22:40,520 Speaker 1: I think I think that that's actually because of this 353 00:22:40,680 --> 00:22:44,080 Speaker 1: next point that you're about to come to yes as well. 354 00:22:44,119 --> 00:22:46,280 Speaker 1: So I got to this and I was like, oh, okay, 355 00:22:46,560 --> 00:22:50,920 Speaker 1: but then I found this thing. So in the sixteen hundreds, 356 00:22:51,000 --> 00:22:55,960 Speaker 1: English and German folklore started having these instances of the 357 00:22:56,040 --> 00:22:59,400 Speaker 1: Easter hair, which is what a lot of people think, 358 00:23:00,359 --> 00:23:02,120 Speaker 1: that's the first thing that they can find of this. 359 00:23:03,200 --> 00:23:07,679 Speaker 1: Though some religious folks attempted to stop the traditions around 360 00:23:07,680 --> 00:23:12,480 Speaker 1: this Eastern hair or like the hair pie scramble where 361 00:23:12,480 --> 00:23:17,040 Speaker 1: people quote scrambled for a slice of hair meat pie. 362 00:23:17,720 --> 00:23:21,000 Speaker 1: The reason these religious folks were, you know, raising their 363 00:23:21,000 --> 00:23:23,199 Speaker 1: hand like we shouldn't do this is because of the 364 00:23:23,240 --> 00:23:27,320 Speaker 1: pagan roots of these types of traditions. Huh. So, according 365 00:23:27,400 --> 00:23:31,720 Speaker 1: to some sources, people at the time held the belief 366 00:23:31,760 --> 00:23:35,720 Speaker 1: some people did, particularly in northern Europe, that witches could 367 00:23:35,760 --> 00:23:42,679 Speaker 1: take the form of a hair for mischief purposes. Yeah, 368 00:23:42,680 --> 00:23:46,400 Speaker 1: so to banish the witches of winter, people might have 369 00:23:46,440 --> 00:23:52,119 Speaker 1: eaten hair at spring equinox celebrations like Easter. So that's 370 00:23:52,200 --> 00:23:57,639 Speaker 1: probably why it was in the bitch, you're right, and 371 00:23:57,680 --> 00:23:59,560 Speaker 1: then like this is a food show. I could have 372 00:23:59,560 --> 00:24:02,640 Speaker 1: gone way more into this, but essentially all of that 373 00:24:02,720 --> 00:24:05,920 Speaker 1: got mixed up with a Grimm's fairy tale and the 374 00:24:06,000 --> 00:24:09,960 Speaker 1: general idea of rebirth during spring, like, oh, look at 375 00:24:09,960 --> 00:24:13,720 Speaker 1: all those bunnies during the springtime. Wow, and presto, we 376 00:24:13,800 --> 00:24:21,119 Speaker 1: got the easter bunny. I guess, yeah, yeah, I have 377 00:24:21,200 --> 00:24:23,000 Speaker 1: I have two I have two notes here, Okay. The 378 00:24:23,320 --> 00:24:29,040 Speaker 1: first is that um, bugs bunny. While we're talking about hairs, bugs, 379 00:24:29,040 --> 00:24:34,200 Speaker 1: bunny is morphologically speaking, more like a hair than a bunny. Okay, okay, 380 00:24:34,320 --> 00:24:36,880 Speaker 1: I just need to put that out there. That's just important, 381 00:24:36,920 --> 00:24:41,960 Speaker 1: important fact. This brings us to a fun Times with 382 00:24:42,040 --> 00:24:45,720 Speaker 1: History segment. Yea, because there is a very popular story 383 00:24:45,840 --> 00:24:50,560 Speaker 1: about rabbit domestication, which as I said, is huge in 384 00:24:50,600 --> 00:24:54,480 Speaker 1: the story of rabbits, that is often repeated but has 385 00:24:54,560 --> 00:24:58,000 Speaker 1: been largely debunked. Some people still fight for it, but 386 00:24:58,240 --> 00:25:01,560 Speaker 1: all right, I'm going to all also repeat it because 387 00:25:01,560 --> 00:25:03,840 Speaker 1: it's interesting and because it's like in the top ten 388 00:25:03,880 --> 00:25:08,160 Speaker 1: results of what you're going Yeah, but grain of salted 389 00:25:09,840 --> 00:25:15,160 Speaker 1: come on this, okay, arney, Okay. So, the popular story 390 00:25:15,200 --> 00:25:18,880 Speaker 1: goes that French monks were the first to domesticate rabbits 391 00:25:18,880 --> 00:25:22,399 Speaker 1: in six hundred CE. The legend tells that this is 392 00:25:22,440 --> 00:25:26,680 Speaker 1: when Pope Gregory the Great declared that fetal rabbits did 393 00:25:26,760 --> 00:25:31,640 Speaker 1: not count as meat during lent, which again comes all 394 00:25:31,720 --> 00:25:36,199 Speaker 1: the time in these episodes. Um, and he decreed that 395 00:25:36,280 --> 00:25:40,600 Speaker 1: because the amniotic sacks filled with fluid that encompass fetal 396 00:25:40,640 --> 00:25:49,720 Speaker 1: rabbits made them fish. Okay, uh sure, sure, um so yes, 397 00:25:49,800 --> 00:25:52,120 Speaker 1: they were not against the rules to eat during lent, 398 00:25:52,400 --> 00:25:56,320 Speaker 1: and because of this they were something of assault after 399 00:25:56,440 --> 00:25:59,280 Speaker 1: delicacy to the point that the monks and the story 400 00:25:59,400 --> 00:26:03,080 Speaker 1: started them and through their efforts they bread the wild 401 00:26:03,119 --> 00:26:07,080 Speaker 1: European rabbit into a breed that tolerated humans, which I love, 402 00:26:07,200 --> 00:26:09,600 Speaker 1: tolerated humans. I saw that a lot of places too. 403 00:26:12,119 --> 00:26:16,639 Speaker 1: So that's the popular story you'll find. However, when researching it, 404 00:26:16,800 --> 00:26:19,960 Speaker 1: experts discovered that there was no real proof of this 405 00:26:20,000 --> 00:26:23,320 Speaker 1: story at all. And again it's a story that has 406 00:26:23,359 --> 00:26:26,600 Speaker 1: long been accepted that researchers themselves said they had used 407 00:26:26,720 --> 00:26:31,600 Speaker 1: this story before because they just heard it from reputable resources. 408 00:26:31,640 --> 00:26:35,080 Speaker 1: And we're like, okay, sure, but there was nothing. There's 409 00:26:35,119 --> 00:26:37,480 Speaker 1: like no record of the eat it. There's no record 410 00:26:37,560 --> 00:26:40,639 Speaker 1: of eating rabbits during lent. And not only that, the 411 00:26:40,720 --> 00:26:45,080 Speaker 1: consensus seems to be there is no single domestication event 412 00:26:45,520 --> 00:26:52,280 Speaker 1: for rabbits. Yeah yeah, all right, so there's this genetic 413 00:26:52,440 --> 00:26:57,760 Speaker 1: divergence in rabbits. I'm telling you this episode, I was 414 00:26:57,840 --> 00:27:00,000 Speaker 1: trying to make sense of everything. I was so confused. 415 00:27:00,160 --> 00:27:03,280 Speaker 1: But there was this genetic divergence and rabbits that potentially 416 00:27:03,359 --> 00:27:07,040 Speaker 1: indicates domestication that goes back as far as seventeen thousand 417 00:27:07,080 --> 00:27:12,040 Speaker 1: and seven hundred years ago, so way longer ago than that. However, 418 00:27:12,680 --> 00:27:17,720 Speaker 1: even that evidence isn't entirely clear in its implications, because 419 00:27:17,760 --> 00:27:21,440 Speaker 1: some experts think that that might be because the sample 420 00:27:21,480 --> 00:27:25,080 Speaker 1: of wild rabbits that was used wasn't close enough to 421 00:27:25,119 --> 00:27:29,400 Speaker 1: our modern day domesticated rabbits to give like an accurate 422 00:27:29,480 --> 00:27:34,280 Speaker 1: reading at all. Oh okay, okay, yep. Some also point 423 00:27:34,320 --> 00:27:36,920 Speaker 1: out that people in France have long enjoyed rabbit meats, 424 00:27:36,920 --> 00:27:40,000 Speaker 1: so it is within the realm of possibility that they 425 00:27:40,040 --> 00:27:45,480 Speaker 1: were domesticated there or near there. Separately, again, multiple events 426 00:27:45,520 --> 00:27:50,600 Speaker 1: of domestication events. Some even think we've mixed up this 427 00:27:50,680 --> 00:27:54,080 Speaker 1: Pope Gregory fellow with another guy, a historian named Saint 428 00:27:54,080 --> 00:27:59,520 Speaker 1: Gregory of Tours, who once mentioned the lent time practice 429 00:28:00,119 --> 00:28:06,520 Speaker 1: eating baby rabbits. However, even that falls apart upon closer examination, 430 00:28:06,680 --> 00:28:09,879 Speaker 1: because it seems this whole thing is based on the 431 00:28:09,920 --> 00:28:13,560 Speaker 1: writings of a German author out of nineteen thirty six 432 00:28:14,400 --> 00:28:18,600 Speaker 1: who was seeming to attribute a story to Saint Gregory, 433 00:28:18,840 --> 00:28:22,600 Speaker 1: wherein the Saint describes one person, possibly not even Christian 434 00:28:23,359 --> 00:28:27,840 Speaker 1: what they noted, eating fetal rabbits during lent and then 435 00:28:27,960 --> 00:28:31,600 Speaker 1: dying from an illness not related to the rabbits. Wow, 436 00:28:32,480 --> 00:28:36,240 Speaker 1: So like a much later retelling of this, it's a mess, 437 00:28:36,240 --> 00:28:42,920 Speaker 1: It's what I'm saying. Yeah, that I had a quote. 438 00:28:43,280 --> 00:28:45,160 Speaker 1: I had a quote. I deleted it because I was like, 439 00:28:45,200 --> 00:28:46,560 Speaker 1: I think it's gonna be clear. But it was a 440 00:28:46,640 --> 00:28:49,440 Speaker 1: quote from all the historians who was like, basically, I 441 00:28:49,480 --> 00:28:59,280 Speaker 1: don't know that. Yeah. Part okay, part of the problem 442 00:28:59,680 --> 00:29:02,960 Speaker 1: that researchers do run into here is that is that 443 00:29:03,080 --> 00:29:08,680 Speaker 1: rabbit bones are relatively small and fragile, like like even 444 00:29:08,720 --> 00:29:11,640 Speaker 1: if you compare it to a cat, a cat is 445 00:29:11,720 --> 00:29:16,000 Speaker 1: like thirteen percent bone mass, by way, a rabbit is 446 00:29:16,000 --> 00:29:20,760 Speaker 1: only like eight percent. I'm quoting those numbers from memory, 447 00:29:20,840 --> 00:29:23,920 Speaker 1: but I think that's what I read. And so the 448 00:29:23,960 --> 00:29:27,680 Speaker 1: fossil record isn't nearly as well preserved with rabbit as 449 00:29:27,680 --> 00:29:31,120 Speaker 1: it is for larger mammals or for like shellfish stuff 450 00:29:31,160 --> 00:29:36,160 Speaker 1: like that. So all right, we think, I mean human 451 00:29:36,240 --> 00:29:38,960 Speaker 1: scientists think not like not like me and Anny, that 452 00:29:39,280 --> 00:29:43,600 Speaker 1: animals similar to modern rabbits lived throughout Europe like a 453 00:29:43,640 --> 00:29:47,280 Speaker 1: couple million years ago, but that they went nearly extinct 454 00:29:47,360 --> 00:29:49,480 Speaker 1: during one of the glacial periods, and the only ones 455 00:29:49,720 --> 00:29:52,640 Speaker 1: that survived in order to start spreading again in the 456 00:29:52,680 --> 00:29:57,280 Speaker 1: past like twenty thousand years were in the Iberian Peninsula 457 00:29:57,440 --> 00:30:08,600 Speaker 1: and what's now southern France. But yeah, yeah, basically it's complicated. Yes, 458 00:30:09,200 --> 00:30:13,120 Speaker 1: the consensus does seem to be that domestication both for 459 00:30:13,200 --> 00:30:17,640 Speaker 1: food and for cute pet rabbits worked in tandem and 460 00:30:17,720 --> 00:30:20,680 Speaker 1: happened in several different places at several different times, and 461 00:30:20,800 --> 00:30:24,200 Speaker 1: saul ups and downs in terms of food as whether 462 00:30:24,240 --> 00:30:26,280 Speaker 1: it was a high status food that was getting recorded 463 00:30:26,280 --> 00:30:28,440 Speaker 1: and talked about as opposed to a low status food 464 00:30:28,440 --> 00:30:36,680 Speaker 1: that was not. Yeah. Um, pretty certainly, by the time 465 00:30:36,880 --> 00:30:41,680 Speaker 1: the Phoenicians arrived in the western Mediterranean circle like eleven 466 00:30:41,800 --> 00:30:47,480 Speaker 1: hundred BC, there were enough rabbits there that they named 467 00:30:47,600 --> 00:30:54,400 Speaker 1: the Iberian Peninsula the Land of Rabbits. It's thumb something 468 00:30:54,600 --> 00:30:57,880 Speaker 1: something like that. Um, I read a few different and 469 00:30:57,960 --> 00:31:03,200 Speaker 1: like possibly this is a grammatically contentious and etymologically contentious, 470 00:31:03,240 --> 00:31:07,719 Speaker 1: but that's possibly where the Romans got the name Ispania 471 00:31:08,840 --> 00:31:13,560 Speaker 1: and where we get the word Spain from. But anyway, 472 00:31:13,120 --> 00:31:19,200 Speaker 1: either way, Phoenicians began trading rabbits around the Mediterranean right 473 00:31:19,280 --> 00:31:24,880 Speaker 1: around the bc CE turnover. Greeks lovedom Aristotle wrote their 474 00:31:24,920 --> 00:31:28,520 Speaker 1: meat is nice and delicate. Romans farmed rabbits in the 475 00:31:28,560 --> 00:31:35,200 Speaker 1: Iberian area, and around the eight hundreds CE, both wild 476 00:31:35,440 --> 00:31:39,200 Speaker 1: and domesticated rabbits began spreading back out to other areas 477 00:31:39,360 --> 00:31:41,760 Speaker 1: of Europe, although it did take a while for rabbit 478 00:31:41,840 --> 00:31:44,840 Speaker 1: farming to catch on in new places, because although rabbits 479 00:31:44,880 --> 00:31:47,000 Speaker 1: are prolific when well cared for, it's a little finicky 480 00:31:47,040 --> 00:31:49,160 Speaker 1: to get a good set up started. As of the 481 00:31:49,200 --> 00:31:53,320 Speaker 1: early thirteen hundreds, in England, a rabbit had the same 482 00:31:53,360 --> 00:32:00,840 Speaker 1: market price as a whole pig. Dang, yeah yeah. In 483 00:32:00,880 --> 00:32:04,360 Speaker 1: the Middle Ages, in Britain, rabbits were kept in artificial warrens, 484 00:32:04,400 --> 00:32:07,840 Speaker 1: and that was because the soil wasn't ideal for them 485 00:32:08,000 --> 00:32:11,880 Speaker 1: to burrow, and through this process they slowly chilled out. 486 00:32:13,200 --> 00:32:16,680 Speaker 1: I guess that's kind of what I took away from 487 00:32:16,720 --> 00:32:21,600 Speaker 1: a lot of the research. Skeletal differences started appearing in 488 00:32:21,720 --> 00:32:25,240 Speaker 1: rabbits as early as the eighteenth century in Europe, which 489 00:32:25,280 --> 00:32:28,760 Speaker 1: matches up with when people started breeding rabbits specifically to 490 00:32:28,800 --> 00:32:34,720 Speaker 1: be kept as pets. Yeah, colonialism did bring rabbits around 491 00:32:34,760 --> 00:32:37,640 Speaker 1: the world. A British sailors would raise rabbits on board 492 00:32:37,680 --> 00:32:40,800 Speaker 1: as food. The Spanish also introduced European rabbits to the 493 00:32:40,840 --> 00:32:46,240 Speaker 1: Americas early on, and European rabbits were introduced to Australia 494 00:32:46,440 --> 00:32:50,560 Speaker 1: in the eighteen hundreds and they have done a significant 495 00:32:50,600 --> 00:32:54,160 Speaker 1: amount of damage there since then. Oh yeah, oh yeah. 496 00:32:54,200 --> 00:32:56,360 Speaker 1: Some have even gone so far as to label this 497 00:32:56,440 --> 00:32:59,120 Speaker 1: as a case study of one of the fastest instances 498 00:32:59,360 --> 00:33:04,800 Speaker 1: of an invasi of manimal species in history. These days, 499 00:33:04,840 --> 00:33:09,800 Speaker 1: there's an estimated two hundred million feral rabbits in Australia. Yeah, 500 00:33:09,880 --> 00:33:15,120 Speaker 1: I read that. I read that. After wild rabbits were 501 00:33:15,120 --> 00:33:20,120 Speaker 1: imported into Victoria in eighteen fifty nine, they had twenty 502 00:33:20,120 --> 00:33:23,920 Speaker 1: four rabbits and within six years there were twenty thousand. 503 00:33:25,200 --> 00:33:29,640 Speaker 1: And it was a problem. It was a hecken problem. 504 00:33:29,640 --> 00:33:32,880 Speaker 1: It was a huge, huge problem. There's another story. There's 505 00:33:32,880 --> 00:33:34,880 Speaker 1: a story that goes that like this rich dude was 506 00:33:34,880 --> 00:33:38,240 Speaker 1: just like I want to hunt rabbits in Australia, semiso rabbits, 507 00:33:38,480 --> 00:33:43,800 Speaker 1: and he got thirteen and they escaped and they multiplied 508 00:33:43,880 --> 00:33:48,520 Speaker 1: like rabbits, as the saying goes, But it has been 509 00:33:48,560 --> 00:33:51,760 Speaker 1: a huge problem. In the nineteen fifties, the Australian government 510 00:33:51,800 --> 00:33:56,160 Speaker 1: released rabbits infected with a rabbit based virus to whittle 511 00:33:56,240 --> 00:34:00,600 Speaker 1: down wild population. Yeah, and this was the first instance 512 00:34:00,800 --> 00:34:03,680 Speaker 1: of a virus being deliberately introduced to the wild to 513 00:34:03,720 --> 00:34:08,480 Speaker 1: eliminate a species. In the words of an Australian scientist, 514 00:34:09,040 --> 00:34:12,400 Speaker 1: thus inadvertedly began one of the great experiments and natural 515 00:34:12,400 --> 00:34:17,359 Speaker 1: selection conducted on a continental scale. Yeah. And then there 516 00:34:17,440 --> 00:34:19,879 Speaker 1: was another virus that was designed to kill rabbits within 517 00:34:19,960 --> 00:34:24,080 Speaker 1: forty eight hours that escaped a lab in the nineteen 518 00:34:24,160 --> 00:34:27,400 Speaker 1: nineties and decimated rabbit populations by up to ninety percent 519 00:34:27,480 --> 00:34:30,440 Speaker 1: in dry areas. It only really worked in dry areas. 520 00:34:31,480 --> 00:34:33,600 Speaker 1: And those are only a few examples of the methods 521 00:34:33,640 --> 00:34:37,000 Speaker 1: that have been employed to control this population. Because they 522 00:34:37,040 --> 00:34:44,840 Speaker 1: have been working on it, there was a lot. Yeah. Yeah. 523 00:34:45,239 --> 00:34:48,360 Speaker 1: When European rabbits were introduced to North America in the 524 00:34:48,400 --> 00:34:51,920 Speaker 1: nineteenth century, they became invasive as well, particularly in places 525 00:34:51,920 --> 00:34:55,640 Speaker 1: like Chatham County at North Carolina. As a solution to 526 00:34:55,680 --> 00:34:59,880 Speaker 1: their proliferation of all these rabbits, they shipped thousands of 527 00:35:00,080 --> 00:35:03,719 Speaker 1: them northeast as soon as railroads arrived in the area 528 00:35:03,719 --> 00:35:06,800 Speaker 1: in the eighteen eighties, and this was like a fairly 529 00:35:06,840 --> 00:35:10,680 Speaker 1: successful solution. Mental rabbit fever, which is this illness that 530 00:35:10,719 --> 00:35:15,440 Speaker 1: results from skinning rabbits, pretty much killed the rabbit industry 531 00:35:15,520 --> 00:35:22,480 Speaker 1: in that area. So yeah, yeah, yeah. A US rabbit 532 00:35:22,600 --> 00:35:27,160 Speaker 1: experiment station was established near Los Angeles in the nineteen twenties, 533 00:35:27,800 --> 00:35:31,080 Speaker 1: and rabbits saw a spike in popularity as a food 534 00:35:31,120 --> 00:35:34,480 Speaker 1: thing in the US during meat shortages of World War Two. 535 00:35:35,680 --> 00:35:39,400 Speaker 1: An ad campaign spearheaded by Life magazine at the time 536 00:35:39,520 --> 00:35:42,319 Speaker 1: came with this quote, Domestic rabbits are one of the 537 00:35:42,400 --> 00:35:48,200 Speaker 1: few pets which can be enjoyed dead or alive. Yep, 538 00:35:49,160 --> 00:35:51,000 Speaker 1: like that they put pet in there. That was a 539 00:35:51,040 --> 00:35:55,880 Speaker 1: real nice wow twist. All right. Another ad from the 540 00:35:55,920 --> 00:35:59,760 Speaker 1: time from Gourmet magazine read, although it isn't our usual habit, 541 00:36:00,120 --> 00:36:04,879 Speaker 1: this year, we're eating the easter rabbit again. Take those 542 00:36:04,880 --> 00:36:09,040 Speaker 1: shouted dreams and like twist the knife. Yeah fun. That 543 00:36:09,560 --> 00:36:11,880 Speaker 1: is actually quite a longer slogan and I shut it, 544 00:36:12,000 --> 00:36:13,799 Speaker 1: I shortened it. But if you want to read more, 545 00:36:14,960 --> 00:36:20,880 Speaker 1: all right, great. However, when beef became more readily available 546 00:36:20,960 --> 00:36:23,399 Speaker 1: in the US in the fifties and sixties, rabbit once 547 00:36:23,440 --> 00:36:27,719 Speaker 1: again declined to popularity in the mainstream of note, though 548 00:36:27,760 --> 00:36:31,680 Speaker 1: it never faded in certain communities, which has been true 549 00:36:31,680 --> 00:36:36,240 Speaker 1: throughout the history and present of eating rabbit. Yeah. Yeah, 550 00:36:36,239 --> 00:36:39,880 Speaker 1: because for most of history, rabbit really has been a 551 00:36:39,960 --> 00:36:43,640 Speaker 1: local thing. Like large scale farming didn't begin in earnest 552 00:36:44,320 --> 00:36:47,960 Speaker 1: pretty much anywhere until the nineteen seventies, and that was 553 00:36:48,160 --> 00:36:51,520 Speaker 1: after a couple decades of specialized breeds and diets and 554 00:36:51,600 --> 00:36:55,919 Speaker 1: management practices being developed. In nineteen seventy six, of note, 555 00:36:56,080 --> 00:37:00,719 Speaker 1: the World Rabbit Science Association organized in Paris. They hold 556 00:37:00,760 --> 00:37:04,319 Speaker 1: a Rabbit Congress once every four years. I don't think 557 00:37:04,360 --> 00:37:06,279 Speaker 1: that it's a congress made up of rabbits. I think 558 00:37:06,320 --> 00:37:09,920 Speaker 1: it's a congress made up of rabbit scientists and enthusiasts. 559 00:37:09,920 --> 00:37:12,480 Speaker 1: But either way, I love that by that phrase. We 560 00:37:12,480 --> 00:37:16,280 Speaker 1: did not get an American branch of the World Rabbit 561 00:37:16,360 --> 00:37:19,800 Speaker 1: Science Association until nineteen ninety six, so we were slow 562 00:37:19,840 --> 00:37:23,120 Speaker 1: on the pickup mm. And there are a couple of 563 00:37:23,200 --> 00:37:27,040 Speaker 1: reasons why that might have been. And one is something 564 00:37:27,080 --> 00:37:30,319 Speaker 1: we've been alluding to throughout, so similar to what we 565 00:37:30,360 --> 00:37:34,120 Speaker 1: mentioned in our turtle Soup episode, the perception that rabbits 566 00:37:34,120 --> 00:37:37,919 Speaker 1: were cute, a perception that was really reinforced by their 567 00:37:38,000 --> 00:37:42,040 Speaker 1: various depictions in our entertainment, had a huge impact on 568 00:37:42,760 --> 00:37:47,920 Speaker 1: people's willingness to eat rabbit. Yeah, in this country, a 569 00:37:47,920 --> 00:37:53,560 Speaker 1: lot of things I read pointed to Bambi's thumper as 570 00:37:53,600 --> 00:37:56,040 Speaker 1: an example. There's also a term for it called the 571 00:37:56,080 --> 00:37:59,400 Speaker 1: easter bunny syndrome. Yeah, this is in scientific papers, like 572 00:37:59,560 --> 00:38:04,800 Speaker 1: science papers about rabbit meat will list this as a 573 00:38:04,880 --> 00:38:09,000 Speaker 1: scientifically accepted reason that people don't eat more rabbit, right, 574 00:38:09,239 --> 00:38:11,480 Speaker 1: And yeah, like we said in that turtle Soup episode, 575 00:38:11,480 --> 00:38:15,239 Speaker 1: it's kind of the same. You know, they've been anthropomorphized, 576 00:38:15,239 --> 00:38:19,399 Speaker 1: they're cute in a lot of our media. So it's 577 00:38:19,560 --> 00:38:24,000 Speaker 1: it does it has like a measurable impact, it does. Uh. 578 00:38:24,480 --> 00:38:27,520 Speaker 1: That kind of changed in the US in the twenty 579 00:38:27,560 --> 00:38:31,040 Speaker 1: tens with the growing interest of the nose to tail movements, 580 00:38:31,040 --> 00:38:33,960 Speaker 1: So people were more interested in like, Okay, I want 581 00:38:33,960 --> 00:38:35,799 Speaker 1: to make the most out of these meats and try 582 00:38:35,800 --> 00:38:39,960 Speaker 1: these things, and then I gotta put in here twenty 583 00:38:39,960 --> 00:38:44,239 Speaker 1: thirteen is when The Last of Us came out, which 584 00:38:44,280 --> 00:38:46,920 Speaker 1: certainly again didn't have this like lovely scene that's in 585 00:38:46,960 --> 00:38:49,960 Speaker 1: the show of Eating rabbit, but it certainly has scenes 586 00:38:50,000 --> 00:38:56,000 Speaker 1: of hunting rabbit. Okay, yeah, yeah yeah. In a twenty 587 00:38:56,120 --> 00:39:00,520 Speaker 1: fourteen though, Whole Foods launched a rabbit meat pile program 588 00:39:00,560 --> 00:39:04,080 Speaker 1: that drill a lot of ire from some folks. Some 589 00:39:04,120 --> 00:39:07,080 Speaker 1: of their flyers read boycott Whole Foods because they're selling 590 00:39:07,440 --> 00:39:12,640 Speaker 1: rabbits and because rabbits aren't protected by the humane methods 591 00:39:12,680 --> 00:39:15,880 Speaker 1: of slaughter acts. There have recently been a few instances 592 00:39:15,880 --> 00:39:19,640 Speaker 1: of horrific conditions that have been exposed, including in twenty 593 00:39:19,640 --> 00:39:23,040 Speaker 1: fifteen when the US's largest producer got in trouble from 594 00:39:23,120 --> 00:39:27,680 Speaker 1: some pretty for some pretty terrible things despite advertising as humane, 595 00:39:28,440 --> 00:39:31,280 Speaker 1: and the protests largely worked. I believe Whole Foods stopped 596 00:39:31,320 --> 00:39:37,000 Speaker 1: selling rabbit in twenty fifteen. Yeah goodness, uh huh um. 597 00:39:37,400 --> 00:39:42,360 Speaker 1: In twenty seventeen, Venezuelan President Nicolas Maduro introduced Plan Rabbit 598 00:39:42,680 --> 00:39:45,920 Speaker 1: to combat food shortages, basically trying to convince people to 599 00:39:46,160 --> 00:39:48,200 Speaker 1: eat rabbit. You can find a lot of those flyers 600 00:39:48,200 --> 00:39:53,600 Speaker 1: online should you desire. Yeah, huh it is it is 601 00:39:53,640 --> 00:39:56,000 Speaker 1: so fascinating to me, and I mean that there are 602 00:39:56,080 --> 00:39:59,279 Speaker 1: we didn't really go that deeply into it, aside from 603 00:39:59,280 --> 00:40:03,719 Speaker 1: that very coo using sidebar about the Easter hair. But yeah, 604 00:40:03,800 --> 00:40:07,799 Speaker 1: like like rabbit's feature in a whole lot of of 605 00:40:07,800 --> 00:40:13,440 Speaker 1: of mythology and folklore from the places where they do exist, 606 00:40:13,680 --> 00:40:17,720 Speaker 1: and it's I mean like like that was a short 607 00:40:17,760 --> 00:40:21,960 Speaker 1: list at the top of cultural references to rabbits. Um. 608 00:40:22,080 --> 00:40:26,080 Speaker 1: They they really do hop up in a lot of places. 609 00:40:26,960 --> 00:40:30,120 Speaker 1: Um Uh. I was thinking. I had a very small 610 00:40:31,000 --> 00:40:34,240 Speaker 1: reference to to to to the character Anya from Buffy 611 00:40:34,280 --> 00:40:38,480 Speaker 1: the Vampire Slayer in my What Is Its section because 612 00:40:38,600 --> 00:40:41,080 Speaker 1: one of the funny things about this demon who doesn't 613 00:40:41,120 --> 00:40:43,640 Speaker 1: really know how to human good is that she hates bunnies. 614 00:40:44,080 --> 00:40:49,719 Speaker 1: She is terrified of bunnies. And I mean it's a 615 00:40:49,880 --> 00:40:53,400 Speaker 1: it's a good character note because like, who would be 616 00:40:53,480 --> 00:40:58,239 Speaker 1: terrified of bunnies except for a weirdo demonum and maybe 617 00:40:58,239 --> 00:41:02,480 Speaker 1: someone who had met rabbits and nose. Oh, I just 618 00:41:02,520 --> 00:41:09,560 Speaker 1: had a flashbagg. There was this animated short I've told 619 00:41:09,560 --> 00:41:11,759 Speaker 1: you about it, I'll tell anybody about it. It was 620 00:41:11,800 --> 00:41:14,000 Speaker 1: before ice Age, and it was one of those like 621 00:41:14,040 --> 00:41:17,200 Speaker 1: Pixar cute shorts. You know. It was about a rabbit 622 00:41:17,719 --> 00:41:21,520 Speaker 1: and her husband rabbit had died, no, and she was 623 00:41:21,600 --> 00:41:25,560 Speaker 1: making this pie and this moth was bothering her, and 624 00:41:25,560 --> 00:41:27,800 Speaker 1: then she got it. The moth got in the pie batter, 625 00:41:29,360 --> 00:41:34,040 Speaker 1: and then the bunny crawled into the oven and it 626 00:41:34,080 --> 00:41:38,960 Speaker 1: was a universe in there, and she died. What I'm 627 00:41:39,000 --> 00:41:40,799 Speaker 1: telling you this is a real thing. You could look 628 00:41:40,800 --> 00:41:46,280 Speaker 1: it up. I scarred me for life. Clearly. It's before 629 00:41:46,320 --> 00:41:50,680 Speaker 1: ice age. Just look up ice age rabbit moth that 630 00:41:50,800 --> 00:41:53,400 Speaker 1: it will come up. Okay, do you want to see it? 631 00:41:53,480 --> 00:41:56,600 Speaker 1: I don't know. It's very beautiful, all right, but it's disturbing. 632 00:41:56,960 --> 00:42:02,440 Speaker 1: Huh um yeah, no, the uh it's no, it's it's cool. 633 00:42:02,440 --> 00:42:05,080 Speaker 1: It's cool, you know. And it can like rabbits can 634 00:42:05,160 --> 00:42:06,680 Speaker 1: take that turn. And they do have in a lot 635 00:42:06,719 --> 00:42:10,160 Speaker 1: of folklore like a like a trickster kind of vibe 636 00:42:10,160 --> 00:42:14,040 Speaker 1: to them. Um. And I've been very slowly working through 637 00:42:14,480 --> 00:42:19,080 Speaker 1: the Southern Reach trilogy by Jeff Vandermere, which which is 638 00:42:19,080 --> 00:42:24,040 Speaker 1: what Um the movie Annihilation was based on Um and 639 00:42:24,080 --> 00:42:27,680 Speaker 1: the second in the second book authority. Um. There's this 640 00:42:27,719 --> 00:42:32,640 Speaker 1: whole thing about how these rabbits were introduced to the 641 00:42:32,719 --> 00:42:36,120 Speaker 1: area as part of an experiment, and they of course 642 00:42:36,200 --> 00:42:38,920 Speaker 1: got out of control, and now there's wild rabbits and 643 00:42:39,440 --> 00:42:42,759 Speaker 1: their behavior is very strange, as is the behavior of 644 00:42:42,840 --> 00:42:47,560 Speaker 1: many things in this very strange area. So, um, yeah, 645 00:42:47,719 --> 00:42:51,680 Speaker 1: magicians rabbits. Yeah, gosh, we're doing talk about that. Wow. 646 00:42:52,320 --> 00:42:57,560 Speaker 1: You know, there's a lot, there's a lot here. Um, 647 00:42:57,560 --> 00:42:59,800 Speaker 1: we've clearly got a lot of thoughts about rabbits. We do, 648 00:43:01,160 --> 00:43:06,000 Speaker 1: both me and Lauren and societies at large. The rabbit 649 00:43:06,000 --> 00:43:09,960 Speaker 1: in the moon in Japanese folklore, m just up there 650 00:43:10,000 --> 00:43:14,000 Speaker 1: making mochi. Yeah. If you haven't seen the nineteen seventy 651 00:43:14,239 --> 00:43:17,359 Speaker 1: Watership Down and you want to be disturbed by children's movie, 652 00:43:17,360 --> 00:43:21,600 Speaker 1: then that's her. That's the way to go. Oh gosh, 653 00:43:21,680 --> 00:43:25,120 Speaker 1: that check Alice in Wonderland that had the taxidermid stop 654 00:43:25,160 --> 00:43:32,120 Speaker 1: motion rabbit hoof. Oh wow. I feel like we've really 655 00:43:32,160 --> 00:43:35,120 Speaker 1: gone on a journey in this one. That was a 656 00:43:35,200 --> 00:43:40,400 Speaker 1: legit flashback. I just had ya Wow. Yeah, Annie's like 657 00:43:40,440 --> 00:43:45,520 Speaker 1: whole universe stopped. Oh my god, all the way back 658 00:43:45,560 --> 00:43:50,040 Speaker 1: in middle school again. Um. I've never actually seen the 659 00:43:50,040 --> 00:43:53,440 Speaker 1: animated Watership Down. I only read the book very recently. Um, 660 00:43:53,800 --> 00:43:56,279 Speaker 1: like over the past, like like during the pandemic, I think, 661 00:43:56,760 --> 00:44:00,520 Speaker 1: and it is very upsetting. That is an upsetting buck. 662 00:44:01,160 --> 00:44:05,520 Speaker 1: I loved it. I think you should watch the cartoon. Okay, um, 663 00:44:05,520 --> 00:44:08,040 Speaker 1: you'll see right handed a generation. And that's just not 664 00:44:08,080 --> 00:44:10,359 Speaker 1: me saying that. There's a articles written about it. Yeah, 665 00:44:11,160 --> 00:44:13,960 Speaker 1: it's disturbing because it's like, oh, watch these kids. It's 666 00:44:13,960 --> 00:44:18,400 Speaker 1: cartoon and then there's rabbits murdering each other. Like oh god, okay, 667 00:44:19,360 --> 00:44:25,160 Speaker 1: I'm all right. I believe you entirely. Uh okay, if 668 00:44:25,239 --> 00:44:28,640 Speaker 1: you have a specific rabbit story, we of course would 669 00:44:28,680 --> 00:44:31,279 Speaker 1: love to hear it. Yes we would, because that's what 670 00:44:31,320 --> 00:44:33,480 Speaker 1: we have to say for now. Clearly we could go on, 671 00:44:33,560 --> 00:44:39,799 Speaker 1: but we will. But we do have some listener mail 672 00:44:39,880 --> 00:44:42,239 Speaker 1: for you. We do, and we're going to get into 673 00:44:42,280 --> 00:44:43,839 Speaker 1: that as soon as we get back from a quick 674 00:44:43,880 --> 00:44:54,839 Speaker 1: break for a word from our sponsors. And we're back. 675 00:44:54,880 --> 00:44:58,520 Speaker 1: Thank you, yes, thank you, and we're back with Star 676 00:45:04,320 --> 00:45:11,200 Speaker 1: Happen Away. Yeah. You just had a moment of connection 677 00:45:11,320 --> 00:45:14,400 Speaker 1: in the break. I feel realize some things about myself 678 00:45:14,480 --> 00:45:19,120 Speaker 1: and rabbits. It's the whole thing, it is. Yeah, So 679 00:45:19,160 --> 00:45:22,440 Speaker 1: that's you know, sometimes you learn sometimes the subject that 680 00:45:22,480 --> 00:45:27,080 Speaker 1: you learn the most about is yourself. It's true. Very wise, Lauren, 681 00:45:27,280 --> 00:45:33,440 Speaker 1: very wise. Also, we heard from some very wise listeners, 682 00:45:33,760 --> 00:45:38,719 Speaker 1: including Jessica. Jessica wrote, I loved the episode on Garam. 683 00:45:38,760 --> 00:45:40,719 Speaker 1: It reminded me of this video that solo l y 684 00:45:40,840 --> 00:45:43,719 Speaker 1: he did for the History channel on YouTube where she 685 00:45:43,840 --> 00:45:47,560 Speaker 1: made Garam. She hasn't done anything recently for that channel, 686 00:45:47,560 --> 00:45:50,880 Speaker 1: but the playlist of ancient recipes with Sola is amazing. 687 00:45:51,360 --> 00:45:54,800 Speaker 1: Oh cool? Yes, oh you know we love an ancient recipe. 688 00:45:55,040 --> 00:46:00,160 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, yeah, They're so mysterious and fun. Yes, it's 689 00:46:00,200 --> 00:46:03,040 Speaker 1: like trying to decipher a riddle or a puzzle, right, 690 00:46:05,160 --> 00:46:08,480 Speaker 1: I'm like, how much like because it'll lists things in 691 00:46:09,600 --> 00:46:13,360 Speaker 1: like take take this monetary amount worth of an ingredient 692 00:46:13,440 --> 00:46:16,080 Speaker 1: and I'm like, I don't recognize that monetary amount. I 693 00:46:16,120 --> 00:46:18,279 Speaker 1: certainly don't don't know how much duck it would have 694 00:46:18,280 --> 00:46:26,600 Speaker 1: bought in ancient Rome. Cool but but but yeah, awesome, 695 00:46:26,640 --> 00:46:31,320 Speaker 1: thank you. Cecilia wrote The Joy of Cooking episode finally 696 00:46:31,360 --> 00:46:34,160 Speaker 1: got me sitting at the keyboard. I listened several days 697 00:46:34,200 --> 00:46:36,839 Speaker 1: ago and then started a thread on my family's WhatsApp group, 698 00:46:37,120 --> 00:46:40,879 Speaker 1: which we have called Culinary Adventures. I asked who had 699 00:46:41,040 --> 00:46:43,319 Speaker 1: one of these books and what edition? Mine was a 700 00:46:43,320 --> 00:46:47,400 Speaker 1: wedding gift in nineteen seventy two. Curiously, the copyright page 701 00:46:47,480 --> 00:46:50,480 Speaker 1: lists all the past copyright dates, the latest being nineteen 702 00:46:50,560 --> 00:46:54,520 Speaker 1: sixty four, and all the previous printings, the latest being 703 00:46:54,640 --> 00:46:57,120 Speaker 1: nineteen seventy one, but there's no mention of the date 704 00:46:57,440 --> 00:47:02,080 Speaker 1: this particular book was printed, so by checking Wikipedia, I 705 00:47:02,160 --> 00:47:05,640 Speaker 1: surmise this one is a fifth edition. In the dedication, 706 00:47:05,880 --> 00:47:09,480 Speaker 1: Marion Rombauer Becker refers to the book as The Joy 707 00:47:09,600 --> 00:47:11,600 Speaker 1: or the Joy of Cooking, but this one seems to 708 00:47:11,600 --> 00:47:14,440 Speaker 1: be the one where they dropped the from the title. 709 00:47:15,400 --> 00:47:18,120 Speaker 1: It does have the information on how to skin and 710 00:47:18,160 --> 00:47:20,839 Speaker 1: cook a squirrel, as well as several other animals I 711 00:47:20,880 --> 00:47:23,920 Speaker 1: normally think of as roadkill, not food. And paging through 712 00:47:23,920 --> 00:47:25,879 Speaker 1: it at random the other day I found these two 713 00:47:25,920 --> 00:47:29,399 Speaker 1: strange recipes, which I will attach to the email. Right now, 714 00:47:29,520 --> 00:47:31,520 Speaker 1: I can only think of one recipe from this book 715 00:47:31,560 --> 00:47:34,279 Speaker 1: that I use, and that is four pecan balls, which 716 00:47:34,280 --> 00:47:38,120 Speaker 1: the book calls pecan puffs. My mother had a Joy 717 00:47:38,160 --> 00:47:40,200 Speaker 1: of Cooking. I don't know if her copy is still 718 00:47:40,200 --> 00:47:42,839 Speaker 1: in the family, probably not, as no one mentioned it. 719 00:47:43,320 --> 00:47:45,799 Speaker 1: My sisters who responded both have copies as well as 720 00:47:45,800 --> 00:47:48,120 Speaker 1: my brother. One sister got one as a wedding gift 721 00:47:48,120 --> 00:47:50,840 Speaker 1: in nineteen eighty. It became very well worn, and she 722 00:47:50,920 --> 00:47:53,800 Speaker 1: replaced it with another. Here's what she says about the replacement. 723 00:47:54,280 --> 00:47:58,520 Speaker 1: The copyright page says the first Scribner Scribner Edition nineteen 724 00:47:58,600 --> 00:48:01,760 Speaker 1: ninety five. But I'm certain the cookbook itself is identical 725 00:48:01,840 --> 00:48:04,120 Speaker 1: to the first copy I got in nineteen eighty. I 726 00:48:04,160 --> 00:48:06,439 Speaker 1: went through the old cookbook and transferred all my old 727 00:48:06,480 --> 00:48:09,399 Speaker 1: handwritten notes to the new copy before discarding the old one. 728 00:48:10,320 --> 00:48:12,760 Speaker 1: Then her husband bought her a newer one for Christmas. 729 00:48:12,840 --> 00:48:14,960 Speaker 1: She says the latest date listed in that one is 730 00:48:15,040 --> 00:48:18,759 Speaker 1: nineteen ninety seven, so hers must be the sixth and 731 00:48:18,880 --> 00:48:21,759 Speaker 1: seventh editions. She says she uses the older one more 732 00:48:21,800 --> 00:48:24,960 Speaker 1: than the newer one, and that neither one has the 733 00:48:25,000 --> 00:48:29,720 Speaker 1: two recipes I mentioned above. Who fun Okay. Another sister 734 00:48:29,880 --> 00:48:32,279 Speaker 1: did not get one as a wedding gift, but sometime later, 735 00:48:32,400 --> 00:48:35,399 Speaker 1: in nineteen eighty seven, her husband bought her one. When 736 00:48:35,400 --> 00:48:38,839 Speaker 1: he realized every one of her sisters had one. He 737 00:48:38,880 --> 00:48:41,200 Speaker 1: wrote in it, you are a real sport to have 738 00:48:41,239 --> 00:48:45,360 Speaker 1: suffered so long without this. She was married in nineteen 739 00:48:45,400 --> 00:48:48,640 Speaker 1: eighty two. Here is what she said. I use the 740 00:48:48,680 --> 00:48:51,680 Speaker 1: recipes loosely for jams, and more closely for the ginger 741 00:48:51,680 --> 00:48:55,360 Speaker 1: snaps and of course the all important pecan balls puffs 742 00:48:55,400 --> 00:48:58,240 Speaker 1: to them. I may have some cake or frosting recipes 743 00:48:58,280 --> 00:49:02,160 Speaker 1: from there I use. Also. One niece has one that 744 00:49:02,239 --> 00:49:05,720 Speaker 1: belonged to her husband's grandmother and is from about nineteen 745 00:49:05,760 --> 00:49:08,279 Speaker 1: sixty seven. Another niece picked one up at a book 746 00:49:08,320 --> 00:49:11,040 Speaker 1: sale and it's from nineteen eighty five. Ish. I guess 747 00:49:11,080 --> 00:49:13,640 Speaker 1: the publisher never dated the books, so it seems the 748 00:49:13,680 --> 00:49:15,720 Speaker 1: tradition of giving a copy of the Joy of Cooking 749 00:49:15,760 --> 00:49:17,879 Speaker 1: is a wedding gift in my family died out with 750 00:49:17,920 --> 00:49:21,319 Speaker 1: my generation. Looking through my copy, I see that it 751 00:49:21,360 --> 00:49:24,879 Speaker 1: occasionally lists a can of condensed soup in the ingredients list. 752 00:49:25,280 --> 00:49:28,600 Speaker 1: I didn't realize published cookbooks did this, And in the 753 00:49:28,760 --> 00:49:32,520 Speaker 1: Know Your Ingredients section it lists can sizes with equivalent 754 00:49:32,560 --> 00:49:35,920 Speaker 1: weights and liquid measures. This can be handy in translating 755 00:49:35,920 --> 00:49:38,800 Speaker 1: old recipes. The call for a number two can of something. 756 00:49:39,400 --> 00:49:42,640 Speaker 1: Canned soups come up frequently in church lady cookbooks. I 757 00:49:42,719 --> 00:49:45,719 Speaker 1: have a number of these fundraiser cookbooks. They're fun. I 758 00:49:45,880 --> 00:49:48,240 Speaker 1: put one together for my church in about nineteen ninety, 759 00:49:48,320 --> 00:49:50,680 Speaker 1: I solicited recipes from my family as well as from 760 00:49:50,719 --> 00:49:53,160 Speaker 1: church members, and that is the cookbook I used the most. 761 00:49:53,480 --> 00:49:56,000 Speaker 1: It has several of my grandmother's recipes in it. My 762 00:49:56,080 --> 00:49:58,799 Speaker 1: mother bought eighteen of these books and gave one to 763 00:49:58,880 --> 00:50:01,799 Speaker 1: each of her grandchildren they got engaged, so everyone in 764 00:50:01,800 --> 00:50:04,640 Speaker 1: that generation has that book. I also have a James 765 00:50:04,640 --> 00:50:06,800 Speaker 1: Beard cookbook, as well as The Art of French Cooking 766 00:50:06,800 --> 00:50:09,719 Speaker 1: by Julia Child, which I might have mentioned before. Those 767 00:50:09,760 --> 00:50:14,000 Speaker 1: were also gifts, And well, I guess that's what I 768 00:50:14,040 --> 00:50:16,400 Speaker 1: have to say about the joy of cooking. I thoroughly 769 00:50:16,480 --> 00:50:19,200 Speaker 1: enjoy your podcast and frequently recommend episodes to my family. 770 00:50:19,360 --> 00:50:21,399 Speaker 1: I learned so much about foods I've never heard of 771 00:50:21,480 --> 00:50:24,040 Speaker 1: and others I'm familiar with. On the day I heard 772 00:50:24,040 --> 00:50:26,799 Speaker 1: the episode on wild rice, I had just made wild 773 00:50:26,880 --> 00:50:29,960 Speaker 1: rice the evening before. Note she capitalized it, and then 774 00:50:30,000 --> 00:50:32,080 Speaker 1: it says in parentheses. I don't suppose wild rice needs 775 00:50:32,120 --> 00:50:34,640 Speaker 1: to be capitalized. It just looks better that way. You 776 00:50:34,680 --> 00:50:37,120 Speaker 1: will notice a mention of mock turtle soup in one 777 00:50:37,160 --> 00:50:43,439 Speaker 1: of those recipes attached. Oh I love this, I love this. 778 00:50:43,840 --> 00:50:49,120 Speaker 1: What wonderful detective work. Oh my goodness. Yes, fantastic. I 779 00:50:49,200 --> 00:50:51,279 Speaker 1: love trying to find like when did people get it, 780 00:50:51,400 --> 00:50:53,840 Speaker 1: what addition is it? What recipes are the same, what 781 00:50:53,920 --> 00:50:58,719 Speaker 1: are different? Yeah, and also just I think it's interesting 782 00:50:58,800 --> 00:51:00,799 Speaker 1: that you know, you have your scipes that you follow 783 00:51:00,920 --> 00:51:03,799 Speaker 1: more closely and less, ye have your notes that you make, 784 00:51:04,080 --> 00:51:06,320 Speaker 1: and then when you brought up like the church books 785 00:51:06,320 --> 00:51:08,160 Speaker 1: and that's the one you use the most. It kind 786 00:51:08,200 --> 00:51:11,479 Speaker 1: of makes sense to me because in your area, that's 787 00:51:11,520 --> 00:51:13,919 Speaker 1: probably what you know is a lot of people are cooking. 788 00:51:14,080 --> 00:51:17,640 Speaker 1: Like that's yeah, be localized, personalized. Sure, yes, And I 789 00:51:17,680 --> 00:51:21,360 Speaker 1: remember my grandmother contributed to one of her church cookbooks 790 00:51:21,400 --> 00:51:22,759 Speaker 1: and my mom would get it out and I would 791 00:51:22,760 --> 00:51:25,520 Speaker 1: see like, oh, my grandmother did that recipe. I just 792 00:51:25,560 --> 00:51:27,960 Speaker 1: get so excited, like yeah, I was like she's a 793 00:51:27,960 --> 00:51:32,600 Speaker 1: celebrity or something that No, but sure, yeah that's all 794 00:51:32,680 --> 00:51:35,759 Speaker 1: that's really cool. Yeah, it really is. It really is 795 00:51:36,000 --> 00:51:38,680 Speaker 1: cookbooks are they're just, like we said, such a great 796 00:51:39,760 --> 00:51:42,760 Speaker 1: snapshot and look at what's going on in a family 797 00:51:43,000 --> 00:51:45,719 Speaker 1: in an area, in a community, like the whole thing. 798 00:51:46,200 --> 00:51:50,439 Speaker 1: Yeah cool. Yeah, I Um, I have my my dad 799 00:51:50,440 --> 00:51:54,479 Speaker 1: and my mom's old like like handwritten recipes my dad 800 00:51:54,560 --> 00:51:58,120 Speaker 1: from like professional kitchens and my mom from cooking at home, 801 00:51:58,239 --> 00:52:00,840 Speaker 1: and I really, one of these days, I really need 802 00:52:00,880 --> 00:52:04,719 Speaker 1: to digitize that collection and both both scan them in 803 00:52:04,760 --> 00:52:09,080 Speaker 1: and type them up because yeah, yeah, oh yeah, it's 804 00:52:09,080 --> 00:52:13,960 Speaker 1: always devastating to lose your recipe. So yeah, yeah, well, 805 00:52:14,600 --> 00:52:16,560 Speaker 1: thank you so much to both of these listeners for 806 00:52:16,719 --> 00:52:19,320 Speaker 1: writing in. If you would like to write to us, 807 00:52:19,360 --> 00:52:22,680 Speaker 1: you can our email us hello at saborpod dot com. 808 00:52:22,760 --> 00:52:25,600 Speaker 1: We are also on social media hypothetically, you can find 809 00:52:25,640 --> 00:52:28,520 Speaker 1: us on Twitter, Facebook, and Instagram at saver pod, and 810 00:52:28,560 --> 00:52:30,760 Speaker 1: we do hope to hear from you. Sabor is production 811 00:52:30,760 --> 00:52:33,400 Speaker 1: of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from my Heart Radio, you 812 00:52:33,440 --> 00:52:37,160 Speaker 1: can visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you 813 00:52:37,160 --> 00:52:39,920 Speaker 1: listen to your favorite shows. Thanks as always to our 814 00:52:39,960 --> 00:52:43,600 Speaker 1: superproducers Dylan Fagan and Andrew Howard. Thanks to you for listening, 815 00:52:43,640 --> 00:52:45,359 Speaker 1: and we hope that lots more good things are coming 816 00:52:45,400 --> 00:52:53,880 Speaker 1: your way