1 00:00:06,440 --> 00:00:08,479 Speaker 1: Hey, this is Annie, and welcome to stuff I've never 2 00:00:08,520 --> 00:00:24,959 Speaker 1: told you. Today. Samantha and I have something a little 3 00:00:24,960 --> 00:00:28,040 Speaker 1: different for you, changing it up, changing it up. We're 4 00:00:28,080 --> 00:00:30,320 Speaker 1: trying to keep it fresh. UM. In the last episode 5 00:00:30,320 --> 00:00:34,360 Speaker 1: in our ongoing mini series on trauma, we talked about 6 00:00:34,800 --> 00:00:40,720 Speaker 1: reasons why survivors might not come forward and then some 7 00:00:41,080 --> 00:00:43,400 Speaker 1: things that might happen if they do in a more 8 00:00:43,400 --> 00:00:45,680 Speaker 1: public sense, because, like we said, coming forward can mean 9 00:00:45,880 --> 00:00:47,920 Speaker 1: a couple of different things, but in that more public 10 00:00:47,960 --> 00:00:51,000 Speaker 1: way of reporting UM, and we touched on a few 11 00:00:51,040 --> 00:00:55,960 Speaker 1: of the cost financial, mental and physical, and a couple 12 00:00:55,960 --> 00:00:59,160 Speaker 1: of weeks ago, we brought in two interviewees to talk 13 00:00:59,200 --> 00:01:02,680 Speaker 1: about rape kit it's and the process of reporting UM, 14 00:01:02,720 --> 00:01:06,640 Speaker 1: a survivor and a researcher. So first, before we go 15 00:01:06,680 --> 00:01:10,679 Speaker 1: any further trigger warnings, this episode is not appropriate for 16 00:01:10,680 --> 00:01:14,160 Speaker 1: everyone to listen to. Please hear that you're going to 17 00:01:14,240 --> 00:01:16,360 Speaker 1: be listening. You're gonna be hearing the story from a 18 00:01:16,360 --> 00:01:20,080 Speaker 1: survivor about her sexual assault and the traumatic process that 19 00:01:20,200 --> 00:01:24,040 Speaker 1: she went through of reporting and it's it's nothing too graphic, 20 00:01:24,080 --> 00:01:27,920 Speaker 1: but it's still very difficult to hear. So please consider 21 00:01:28,280 --> 00:01:30,960 Speaker 1: your own mental health way in deciding to listen or 22 00:01:31,040 --> 00:01:33,400 Speaker 1: to not listen. Yeah, I think for both of us, 23 00:01:33,440 --> 00:01:36,600 Speaker 1: we had to come back together to make sure everybody 24 00:01:36,600 --> 00:01:38,840 Speaker 1: in our little crew was okay because it wasn't intense 25 00:01:39,560 --> 00:01:43,080 Speaker 1: uh process. But yeah, we did speak with two badass 26 00:01:43,120 --> 00:01:47,559 Speaker 1: women and their interviews were awesome. UM and somehow complimented 27 00:01:47,600 --> 00:01:50,040 Speaker 1: each other, which is not just somehow, of course, it 28 00:01:50,080 --> 00:01:52,640 Speaker 1: complimented each other, and we thought we'd share them with 29 00:01:52,680 --> 00:01:57,800 Speaker 1: you as one episode. So one is a researcher, Reineechelle Ba. 30 00:01:57,880 --> 00:02:01,840 Speaker 1: She is with Georgia Tech. Yeah, and the other is 31 00:02:01,880 --> 00:02:04,240 Speaker 1: a close friend of mine, Rebecca, who was willing to 32 00:02:04,280 --> 00:02:07,520 Speaker 1: come and talk about her personal experience with us. So 33 00:02:07,880 --> 00:02:12,600 Speaker 1: here's our story. I was sexually assaulted in July of 34 00:02:14,200 --> 00:02:18,080 Speaker 1: UM in North Carolina, in my hometown. I was engaged 35 00:02:18,120 --> 00:02:20,639 Speaker 1: at the time. UM I had flown to North Carolina 36 00:02:20,720 --> 00:02:23,720 Speaker 1: for my bridle shower and UM I was going to 37 00:02:23,760 --> 00:02:25,480 Speaker 1: be there for like a week kind of do some 38 00:02:25,560 --> 00:02:27,280 Speaker 1: like more wedding planning with my mom and stuff. I 39 00:02:27,320 --> 00:02:30,200 Speaker 1: was getting married in Seattle, so it was very important 40 00:02:30,240 --> 00:02:33,639 Speaker 1: for my southern family to have, you know, a bridle 41 00:02:33,680 --> 00:02:36,840 Speaker 1: shower with the church members and family that was in 42 00:02:36,840 --> 00:02:38,640 Speaker 1: North Carolina and all of that. Um. So I had 43 00:02:38,680 --> 00:02:43,320 Speaker 1: flown back home, and my first night in town, I 44 00:02:43,360 --> 00:02:46,040 Speaker 1: went out to get a drink. Um. And my father 45 00:02:46,120 --> 00:02:48,920 Speaker 1: is a Southern Baptist minister. Um, so you know, we 46 00:02:48,919 --> 00:02:50,680 Speaker 1: don't drink at all, and we certainly don't never talk 47 00:02:50,680 --> 00:02:52,679 Speaker 1: about it. Um. And so when I went out to 48 00:02:52,720 --> 00:02:54,799 Speaker 1: get a drink, I lied to my dad and I said, Hey, 49 00:02:54,800 --> 00:02:58,120 Speaker 1: I'm going to cook out and I'm gonna get a milkshake. Um. 50 00:02:58,160 --> 00:03:01,640 Speaker 1: You know, because he couldn't you through that lie. Um. 51 00:03:01,680 --> 00:03:03,600 Speaker 1: But yeah, I went out to like a local bar 52 00:03:03,720 --> 00:03:06,520 Speaker 1: where I, you know, out of college, knew a lot 53 00:03:06,560 --> 00:03:09,200 Speaker 1: of friends who were there and and stuff. Um. Went out, 54 00:03:09,240 --> 00:03:11,280 Speaker 1: I ended up not really seeing anybody that I knew. 55 00:03:12,000 --> 00:03:16,880 Speaker 1: My fiance was in like a an actor rehearsal thing 56 00:03:17,320 --> 00:03:19,359 Speaker 1: that I knew was going to go to like ten 57 00:03:19,480 --> 00:03:22,079 Speaker 1: pm in Seattle, so I knew i I would be 58 00:03:22,120 --> 00:03:23,560 Speaker 1: able to talk to him at like one in the morning. 59 00:03:23,560 --> 00:03:25,600 Speaker 1: So that was kind of my justification for going out. 60 00:03:26,120 --> 00:03:28,160 Speaker 1: I struck up a conversation with this guy. I was 61 00:03:28,160 --> 00:03:31,720 Speaker 1: smoking a cigarette and um, he asked if he could 62 00:03:31,800 --> 00:03:34,519 Speaker 1: like bum one from me. Then like his other friend came, 63 00:03:34,560 --> 00:03:36,440 Speaker 1: I found out they were in the military. They were 64 00:03:36,480 --> 00:03:39,240 Speaker 1: both like very good looking guys to be honest, um, 65 00:03:39,640 --> 00:03:41,360 Speaker 1: which I think is something that I really struggle with 66 00:03:41,440 --> 00:03:44,640 Speaker 1: now in hindsight. Um, thinking that they were attractive, you know. 67 00:03:45,040 --> 00:03:47,320 Speaker 1: At one point, like they bought me a beard, kind 68 00:03:47,320 --> 00:03:50,400 Speaker 1: of like celebrate that I was getting married because I 69 00:03:50,600 --> 00:03:52,320 Speaker 1: shared with them that I was home for my bridal 70 00:03:52,320 --> 00:03:55,240 Speaker 1: shower and all that. And um, when they ordered me 71 00:03:55,280 --> 00:03:56,720 Speaker 1: the beer, I said, well, I'm going to go to 72 00:03:56,720 --> 00:03:58,800 Speaker 1: the bathroom. I'll be right back. But when I came 73 00:03:58,800 --> 00:04:01,240 Speaker 1: out to the bar, the guy kind of had his 74 00:04:01,400 --> 00:04:03,160 Speaker 1: he kind of had the drink like behind him, which 75 00:04:03,200 --> 00:04:05,320 Speaker 1: was kind of weird in hindsight, you know, hindsight, bice, 76 00:04:05,640 --> 00:04:07,600 Speaker 1: So he gave me that drink. I think they ordered 77 00:04:07,600 --> 00:04:10,040 Speaker 1: me another drink after that. And at that point things 78 00:04:10,080 --> 00:04:15,360 Speaker 1: got really hazy. Um. I remember them like leaving the bar, 79 00:04:16,160 --> 00:04:19,480 Speaker 1: um and seeing them leave. Um, my car was parked 80 00:04:19,520 --> 00:04:22,719 Speaker 1: maybe a block up the street, in between two street lights, 81 00:04:23,440 --> 00:04:26,320 Speaker 1: and UM, I was trying to kind of sober up, 82 00:04:26,320 --> 00:04:28,200 Speaker 1: but I was like I was feeling really drunk and 83 00:04:28,240 --> 00:04:30,240 Speaker 1: like I couldn't stand up well and stuff, you know. 84 00:04:30,360 --> 00:04:33,040 Speaker 1: So um, at this point I did not ever end 85 00:04:33,120 --> 00:04:35,640 Speaker 1: up calling my husband um or fiance at the time, 86 00:04:35,800 --> 00:04:39,920 Speaker 1: and UM, I left the bar. The bar had closed down, 87 00:04:40,000 --> 00:04:42,560 Speaker 1: and as I was walking to my car, these two 88 00:04:42,560 --> 00:04:45,560 Speaker 1: guys came out of the little alleyway there and into 89 00:04:45,600 --> 00:04:47,080 Speaker 1: one of the street lights, and they were like, Hey, 90 00:04:47,120 --> 00:04:48,440 Speaker 1: do you want to come to our house and drink 91 00:04:48,480 --> 00:04:51,440 Speaker 1: some wine? And it felt kind of like I was 92 00:04:51,480 --> 00:04:53,120 Speaker 1: a robot or something like. I was like, yeah, that 93 00:04:53,160 --> 00:04:55,840 Speaker 1: sounds good. I didn't feel like myself. UM, so I'm 94 00:04:55,880 --> 00:04:59,279 Speaker 1: pretty convinced that I was roofied or drugged in some way. UM. 95 00:04:59,520 --> 00:05:02,320 Speaker 1: Ivey remember getting to their house. I know one of 96 00:05:02,360 --> 00:05:05,080 Speaker 1: them got in my car with me and drove my 97 00:05:05,240 --> 00:05:07,640 Speaker 1: car to where they were going, and the other guy 98 00:05:07,760 --> 00:05:12,719 Speaker 1: drove behind us. Um, which also seems really weird in hindsight. UM. 99 00:05:13,040 --> 00:05:15,000 Speaker 1: I remember getting to the house, and I remember that 100 00:05:15,000 --> 00:05:17,000 Speaker 1: they had a little dog and that the dog's name 101 00:05:17,040 --> 00:05:19,279 Speaker 1: was Rosy and she was really cute, and beyond that, 102 00:05:19,320 --> 00:05:22,320 Speaker 1: I don't really remember anything until the next morning. UM, 103 00:05:22,320 --> 00:05:25,160 Speaker 1: At around like seven am, I woke up because my 104 00:05:25,240 --> 00:05:28,440 Speaker 1: phone was going off, like ringing, and I was like 105 00:05:28,720 --> 00:05:30,880 Speaker 1: it kind of like woke me up. And when I 106 00:05:30,920 --> 00:05:32,720 Speaker 1: opened my eyes, one of the guys was on top 107 00:05:32,760 --> 00:05:35,480 Speaker 1: of me and he was um assaulting me, and I 108 00:05:35,480 --> 00:05:38,400 Speaker 1: remember kind of like shoving him off of me and 109 00:05:38,400 --> 00:05:40,839 Speaker 1: and like trying to kind of make sense of where 110 00:05:40,880 --> 00:05:44,600 Speaker 1: my things were, my like person stuff were like over 111 00:05:44,720 --> 00:05:47,200 Speaker 1: in like the kitchen area. So I like grabbed my phone. 112 00:05:47,200 --> 00:05:50,000 Speaker 1: It was my dad. My dad had been calling me, um, 113 00:05:50,080 --> 00:05:51,680 Speaker 1: and I like ran out of the house, got in 114 00:05:51,720 --> 00:05:54,400 Speaker 1: my car, and I had no idea where I was, 115 00:05:55,040 --> 00:05:58,000 Speaker 1: so like I start kind of driving, and at that point, 116 00:05:58,120 --> 00:06:01,320 Speaker 1: I still it was I still felt very weird, like 117 00:06:01,360 --> 00:06:04,280 Speaker 1: I was really shaky, and like knew that something bad 118 00:06:04,279 --> 00:06:07,080 Speaker 1: had happened, um, but I wasn't exactly sure what because 119 00:06:07,080 --> 00:06:10,799 Speaker 1: I couldn't remember any of it. UM. So I managed 120 00:06:10,839 --> 00:06:13,280 Speaker 1: to finally get back to my parents house. I know 121 00:06:13,640 --> 00:06:15,880 Speaker 1: my when I talked to my dad, my parents had 122 00:06:15,920 --> 00:06:18,039 Speaker 1: called the sheriff. There were people out kind of like 123 00:06:18,120 --> 00:06:21,080 Speaker 1: looking for me kind of thing. Um, And I like 124 00:06:21,240 --> 00:06:22,880 Speaker 1: lied to them because I was like, oh, I gotta 125 00:06:22,960 --> 00:06:25,839 Speaker 1: keep this lie going of not drinking, you know, um 126 00:06:25,880 --> 00:06:28,719 Speaker 1: and protect myself from my parents um in that like 127 00:06:28,839 --> 00:06:32,080 Speaker 1: child mindset. So UM, I lied to them and I 128 00:06:32,120 --> 00:06:34,440 Speaker 1: went to visit my best friend and I was spending 129 00:06:34,440 --> 00:06:37,640 Speaker 1: the night at her house that night and I explained 130 00:06:37,680 --> 00:06:40,880 Speaker 1: everything that happened, and she was like, a girl, you 131 00:06:40,920 --> 00:06:43,040 Speaker 1: were raped or something like you need to go to 132 00:06:43,040 --> 00:06:45,120 Speaker 1: the hospital, like we need to get you somewhere and 133 00:06:45,120 --> 00:06:48,080 Speaker 1: like do a rape kit, you need to call the police. Um. 134 00:06:48,120 --> 00:06:49,719 Speaker 1: And I was like, no, I really don't want to 135 00:06:49,720 --> 00:06:51,640 Speaker 1: do that. I'm getting married in two months, Like I 136 00:06:51,680 --> 00:06:54,120 Speaker 1: really don't want to like drag this out, you know, 137 00:06:54,160 --> 00:06:56,359 Speaker 1: And like I don't even know these guys names or 138 00:06:56,480 --> 00:06:58,680 Speaker 1: really even what they looked like. Other than that I 139 00:06:58,760 --> 00:07:01,160 Speaker 1: thought they were kind of cute. I remember calling my 140 00:07:01,200 --> 00:07:04,640 Speaker 1: fiance and I told him, and um, that was a 141 00:07:04,640 --> 00:07:06,919 Speaker 1: really hard phone conversation because I was like, is he 142 00:07:06,920 --> 00:07:10,000 Speaker 1: going to believe me? You know? And um he did 143 00:07:10,480 --> 00:07:14,520 Speaker 1: at that moment in time. And he was very pro 144 00:07:15,000 --> 00:07:18,560 Speaker 1: going to the hospital, going to the police, telling my parents, 145 00:07:18,600 --> 00:07:21,200 Speaker 1: And like I said, I was very anti that. I 146 00:07:21,200 --> 00:07:23,200 Speaker 1: did not want to upset my parents. I didn't want 147 00:07:23,200 --> 00:07:25,560 Speaker 1: to make it this big thing. I really didn't want 148 00:07:25,600 --> 00:07:27,720 Speaker 1: to like have to deal with it, you know. Um. 149 00:07:27,840 --> 00:07:29,640 Speaker 1: So my best friend and I we woke up really 150 00:07:29,640 --> 00:07:31,080 Speaker 1: early the next day. We're like, we're going to go 151 00:07:31,080 --> 00:07:32,920 Speaker 1: and get a rape kit done. We're gonna just do 152 00:07:32,960 --> 00:07:36,360 Speaker 1: this behind my parents back. It'll be really easy, right, 153 00:07:36,360 --> 00:07:39,280 Speaker 1: We'll just go to the hospital, have a rape kit done, 154 00:07:39,760 --> 00:07:41,800 Speaker 1: file a report whatever. My parents don't even need to 155 00:07:41,840 --> 00:07:45,680 Speaker 1: know about it, as you can guess it. Unfortunately, is 156 00:07:45,760 --> 00:07:49,239 Speaker 1: not that easy most of the time, as our expert 157 00:07:49,320 --> 00:07:53,280 Speaker 1: has discovered through her work. My name is Renee Shelby 158 00:07:53,320 --> 00:07:56,640 Speaker 1: and I am the research tructor at you Spark, which 159 00:07:56,720 --> 00:08:00,960 Speaker 1: is a nonprofit located in Atlanta's Fulton Any Juvenile Court. 160 00:08:01,760 --> 00:08:04,600 Speaker 1: I am also a researcher at Georgia Tech and I 161 00:08:04,640 --> 00:08:08,360 Speaker 1: work there in a couple of different capacities um and 162 00:08:08,400 --> 00:08:11,640 Speaker 1: then I also do research just around town. So I'm 163 00:08:11,640 --> 00:08:14,000 Speaker 1: a research fellow at the National Center for Civil and 164 00:08:14,080 --> 00:08:18,280 Speaker 1: Human Rights and their LGBTQ Institute, and I also work 165 00:08:18,360 --> 00:08:23,200 Speaker 1: with the Mayor's LGBTQ Advisory Board doing research for them. 166 00:08:23,240 --> 00:08:26,760 Speaker 1: So if you're assaulted and you go in in you 167 00:08:27,120 --> 00:08:30,240 Speaker 1: report that you have been raped and you would like 168 00:08:30,520 --> 00:08:33,640 Speaker 1: to be medically examined. So the nurse will sit you 169 00:08:33,760 --> 00:08:36,880 Speaker 1: down in a private room and they'll first they'll want 170 00:08:36,920 --> 00:08:39,920 Speaker 1: to do a history and this part should really be private, 171 00:08:40,040 --> 00:08:43,320 Speaker 1: should just be the person who experienced the assault and 172 00:08:43,360 --> 00:08:45,680 Speaker 1: the nurse just so they can make sure that there 173 00:08:46,280 --> 00:08:48,040 Speaker 1: can really get into it, and she'll take a history 174 00:08:48,040 --> 00:08:51,600 Speaker 1: and she'll document it down. Each rape kit looks different 175 00:08:51,600 --> 00:08:56,120 Speaker 1: in different states. Some states have protocols UM that the 176 00:08:56,240 --> 00:08:59,840 Speaker 1: entire state uses, like Texas has one UM but places 177 00:08:59,880 --> 00:09:02,400 Speaker 1: like here Georgia, most states it's kind of a free 178 00:09:02,440 --> 00:09:06,480 Speaker 1: for all. The different hospital can purchase whichever when they use. 179 00:09:06,559 --> 00:09:09,840 Speaker 1: So there's a lot of inconsistency and what's collected. So 180 00:09:10,360 --> 00:09:12,920 Speaker 1: you know, after they take that history of what has 181 00:09:13,000 --> 00:09:16,440 Speaker 1: happened to you, then they'll go through and there's essentially 182 00:09:16,440 --> 00:09:19,560 Speaker 1: this piece of paper and it has like a person 183 00:09:20,160 --> 00:09:23,320 Speaker 1: like this outline of a person, and they'll go through 184 00:09:23,360 --> 00:09:27,760 Speaker 1: and they'll they'll document, they'll swab you, you know, pick 185 00:09:28,120 --> 00:09:32,600 Speaker 1: hairs off of you, um pick any fibers. If the 186 00:09:32,679 --> 00:09:36,080 Speaker 1: hospital has more technology so that they have like a 187 00:09:36,120 --> 00:09:40,160 Speaker 1: couplescope which can as a camera that can magnify up 188 00:09:40,200 --> 00:09:43,000 Speaker 1: to forty times, they may photograph parts of your body. 189 00:09:43,440 --> 00:09:46,320 Speaker 1: UM do do different things, but when they actually get 190 00:09:46,360 --> 00:09:49,960 Speaker 1: to you know, swabbing your body to pulling evidence off 191 00:09:49,960 --> 00:09:53,400 Speaker 1: of you, you can have whomever you would like in 192 00:09:53,400 --> 00:09:56,080 Speaker 1: the room with you and it should always be about 193 00:09:56,480 --> 00:10:00,240 Speaker 1: UM re empowering that person. So you know, I should 194 00:10:00,280 --> 00:10:02,920 Speaker 1: be a lot of communication between the person who's seeing 195 00:10:03,440 --> 00:10:06,880 Speaker 1: the exam and the person who experienced the assault. And 196 00:10:06,960 --> 00:10:09,679 Speaker 1: this should ow at every step. It should be about asking, 197 00:10:09,840 --> 00:10:11,320 Speaker 1: you know, is this something that you want to do. 198 00:10:11,440 --> 00:10:13,200 Speaker 1: Here's what we're going to want to do. And if 199 00:10:13,240 --> 00:10:15,320 Speaker 1: that person is uncomfortable, if they do, not have to 200 00:10:15,360 --> 00:10:19,480 Speaker 1: move forward with any step. The exam can take, you know, 201 00:10:19,520 --> 00:10:23,680 Speaker 1: anywhere between. I've heard someone say an hour, but I 202 00:10:23,720 --> 00:10:26,360 Speaker 1: think four hours is like the real minimum that it 203 00:10:26,400 --> 00:10:29,520 Speaker 1: can be in the upwards if six hours, and then 204 00:10:29,640 --> 00:10:33,640 Speaker 1: once it's completed, UM, the product of that exam, all 205 00:10:33,679 --> 00:10:38,800 Speaker 1: those swabs, all of those UM envelopes, that gets packaged 206 00:10:38,880 --> 00:10:42,800 Speaker 1: up and that's your rape kit. So what they'll say is, 207 00:10:43,880 --> 00:10:46,640 Speaker 1: you know, for the science and in the best case scenario, 208 00:10:46,640 --> 00:10:49,240 Speaker 1: if you're assaulted that you know you you don't go 209 00:10:49,240 --> 00:10:52,240 Speaker 1: to the bathroom, you don't take a shower, you don't 210 00:10:52,559 --> 00:10:54,719 Speaker 1: change your clothes, and then you just go and get 211 00:10:54,760 --> 00:10:58,080 Speaker 1: the exam so they can get as much evidence off 212 00:10:58,120 --> 00:11:00,000 Speaker 1: of your body, because they're going to treat your body 213 00:11:00,080 --> 00:11:03,520 Speaker 1: like it's the scene of the crime. So from an 214 00:11:03,520 --> 00:11:08,640 Speaker 1: evidence perspective, the ideal is that a person has, you know, 215 00:11:09,160 --> 00:11:12,640 Speaker 1: preserved that scene of the crime as much as possible. 216 00:11:12,760 --> 00:11:16,319 Speaker 1: But that is incredibly difficult for someone who's experienced assault. 217 00:11:17,280 --> 00:11:19,840 Speaker 1: And we went to the emergency room and we were like, hey, 218 00:11:19,880 --> 00:11:22,240 Speaker 1: this is what happened. Um, you know I need to 219 00:11:22,280 --> 00:11:24,439 Speaker 1: get a rape get done. And they were like, okay, 220 00:11:24,480 --> 00:11:27,319 Speaker 1: well that's going to take several hours. And I was like, well, 221 00:11:27,400 --> 00:11:31,000 Speaker 1: that can't happen because I have my bridal gown fitting 222 00:11:31,480 --> 00:11:34,080 Speaker 1: at eleven a m um and I remember the nurse 223 00:11:34,120 --> 00:11:35,760 Speaker 1: came in and she was like, if you leave right 224 00:11:35,760 --> 00:11:37,800 Speaker 1: now to go to your bridal gown fitting, it's gonna 225 00:11:37,880 --> 00:11:40,720 Speaker 1: seem like you didn't really get raped. And I was like, well, 226 00:11:40,760 --> 00:11:43,160 Speaker 1: I need to go get my bridlegwnfitted. And you know, 227 00:11:43,200 --> 00:11:44,840 Speaker 1: I don't really want to get my parents involved, so 228 00:11:44,840 --> 00:11:48,560 Speaker 1: I'm gonna leave. So I left, um, got my bridle 229 00:11:48,600 --> 00:11:51,319 Speaker 1: gown fitted, went out to lunch with my parents after 230 00:11:51,600 --> 00:11:55,439 Speaker 1: and uh, my fiance had called my mom and he said, hey, 231 00:11:55,440 --> 00:11:58,120 Speaker 1: you really need to talk to Rebecca about what happened 232 00:11:58,120 --> 00:12:00,920 Speaker 1: the other night because she's not being fully honest with 233 00:12:00,960 --> 00:12:03,280 Speaker 1: you and it's a situation that you need to know 234 00:12:03,320 --> 00:12:06,360 Speaker 1: about and she needs help with and I told her 235 00:12:06,360 --> 00:12:08,960 Speaker 1: exactly what happened, and she got on the phone with 236 00:12:09,040 --> 00:12:10,840 Speaker 1: the police right away and she said, hey, you know, 237 00:12:10,880 --> 00:12:13,640 Speaker 1: we called the other night because our daughter was missing, 238 00:12:14,200 --> 00:12:16,520 Speaker 1: and uh, it turns out she was assaulted by two 239 00:12:16,600 --> 00:12:19,160 Speaker 1: men and we don't know who they are, and UM, 240 00:12:19,240 --> 00:12:20,679 Speaker 1: we just don't know what to do. And so then 241 00:12:20,720 --> 00:12:23,880 Speaker 1: my parents took me to uh the hospital in our county. 242 00:12:24,000 --> 00:12:27,120 Speaker 1: It's in the county that it happened in, and UM, 243 00:12:27,160 --> 00:12:30,600 Speaker 1: we waited for probably four hours before I actually went 244 00:12:30,679 --> 00:12:34,920 Speaker 1: into the rape kit. And yeah, it was I think 245 00:12:34,920 --> 00:12:39,160 Speaker 1: I was at the hospital for about fourteen hours that day, um, 246 00:12:39,200 --> 00:12:43,840 Speaker 1: between talking to police, talking to the detectives, talking to 247 00:12:43,840 --> 00:12:47,040 Speaker 1: the nurses, having the actual rape kit done, um, and 248 00:12:47,080 --> 00:12:51,160 Speaker 1: then finally being released and sent home. Um. And then 249 00:12:51,320 --> 00:12:56,000 Speaker 1: from there, of course the report was filed. But what 250 00:12:56,120 --> 00:12:59,840 Speaker 1: about the rape kit? Who could administer them? Here's Renee. 251 00:13:00,360 --> 00:13:05,680 Speaker 1: Now you all definitely have heard of saying sexual assault 252 00:13:05,760 --> 00:13:09,760 Speaker 1: nurse examiners. So these are the gold standard in doing 253 00:13:10,559 --> 00:13:14,680 Speaker 1: uh forensic medical exams. They are trained nurses, they have 254 00:13:14,800 --> 00:13:17,440 Speaker 1: gone through the certification, They know about trauma, they know 255 00:13:17,480 --> 00:13:21,040 Speaker 1: how to work with the and empower the survivor, and 256 00:13:21,080 --> 00:13:26,120 Speaker 1: they know about the compensation process. So if you get 257 00:13:26,880 --> 00:13:30,000 Speaker 1: a rape kit done with the saying more than likely 258 00:13:30,040 --> 00:13:32,240 Speaker 1: all of those things are going to happen. They're gonna 259 00:13:32,320 --> 00:13:35,400 Speaker 1: let you know about the process. They're gonna help help 260 00:13:35,440 --> 00:13:38,880 Speaker 1: you understand that. You know you won't have to pay 261 00:13:38,920 --> 00:13:41,000 Speaker 1: for this, that it will be compensated. All of this 262 00:13:41,120 --> 00:13:43,360 Speaker 1: is taken care of. UM. You know, if you walk 263 00:13:43,400 --> 00:13:47,560 Speaker 1: into places like the Day League in downtown Decatur, you 264 00:13:47,559 --> 00:13:49,880 Speaker 1: know they have a same program right there on site 265 00:13:49,880 --> 00:13:52,360 Speaker 1: that they can do at no cost. There's advocates there, 266 00:13:52,679 --> 00:13:57,000 Speaker 1: they handle all of this. There's only like sayings in 267 00:13:57,040 --> 00:13:59,640 Speaker 1: all of Georgia, UM, we have a hundred and fifty 268 00:13:59,720 --> 00:14:03,079 Speaker 1: nine pennies. You know, we are a big state, so 269 00:14:03,200 --> 00:14:06,959 Speaker 1: more than not. UM. And this is especially for if 270 00:14:06,960 --> 00:14:08,679 Speaker 1: you live in a rural area. You may not have 271 00:14:08,760 --> 00:14:11,760 Speaker 1: access to someone who is extremely knowledgeable in this, and 272 00:14:11,840 --> 00:14:14,760 Speaker 1: so then it kind of becomes a craft. Shoot, what 273 00:14:15,000 --> 00:14:17,680 Speaker 1: is going to happen to you? It's just so inconsistent. 274 00:14:17,800 --> 00:14:22,920 Speaker 1: So there's what's supposed to happen, and then what does happen. UM. 275 00:14:23,040 --> 00:14:25,880 Speaker 1: Some hospitals we even turn you away. There was an 276 00:14:25,960 --> 00:14:28,160 Speaker 1: article done, I think it was in the Washington post 277 00:14:28,800 --> 00:14:32,600 Speaker 1: about this woman who experienced assault. She believe that she 278 00:14:32,640 --> 00:14:35,640 Speaker 1: was roofied. She woke up the next morning, she knew 279 00:14:35,680 --> 00:14:39,240 Speaker 1: something wasn't right with her body, and so her and 280 00:14:39,320 --> 00:14:43,120 Speaker 1: her fiancee, they were like, all right, let's go get 281 00:14:43,160 --> 00:14:45,800 Speaker 1: a kit done. So they go to the first hospital 282 00:14:45,920 --> 00:14:48,280 Speaker 1: and so they're waiting there those hours, not going to 283 00:14:48,320 --> 00:14:51,240 Speaker 1: the bathroom, not eating, not changing their clothes, waiting to 284 00:14:51,280 --> 00:14:53,840 Speaker 1: get that rape kit done. And eventually the hospital turns 285 00:14:53,840 --> 00:14:56,480 Speaker 1: them away and they're very confused, like we can pay 286 00:14:57,120 --> 00:14:59,200 Speaker 1: for this, Like we have insurance, we can pay. So 287 00:14:59,240 --> 00:15:02,120 Speaker 1: they go to another hospital. The hospital refuses them there, says, 288 00:15:02,160 --> 00:15:04,320 Speaker 1: we don't do these. She needs to go to this 289 00:15:04,400 --> 00:15:08,760 Speaker 1: other hospital. Um. Again waiting hours, not able to go 290 00:15:08,800 --> 00:15:10,640 Speaker 1: to the bathroom, and you're not supposed to drink anything. 291 00:15:10,680 --> 00:15:13,440 Speaker 1: She hasn't changed her clothes, she hasn't showered. Um. Finally 292 00:15:13,440 --> 00:15:16,160 Speaker 1: gives to the third hospital. UM. I think it's something 293 00:15:16,160 --> 00:15:19,280 Speaker 1: like twelve hours later. She's just been waiting and finally 294 00:15:19,600 --> 00:15:22,200 Speaker 1: she gets in to me. I think that case is 295 00:15:22,280 --> 00:15:25,720 Speaker 1: more common than not where those hospitals are not knowledgeable 296 00:15:26,240 --> 00:15:30,640 Speaker 1: about this process, and what happens is survivors just become 297 00:15:30,880 --> 00:15:34,600 Speaker 1: collateral damage and all of it. Why do you think 298 00:15:34,640 --> 00:15:39,120 Speaker 1: we have so few nurses SAE nurses. I think it 299 00:15:39,200 --> 00:15:42,440 Speaker 1: can be scary to know that you might have to 300 00:15:42,480 --> 00:15:46,520 Speaker 1: go and testify. I think that can be a fearful 301 00:15:46,600 --> 00:15:49,760 Speaker 1: situation where people don't even know what to expect. And 302 00:15:49,800 --> 00:15:52,880 Speaker 1: you can imagine if the nurse is afraid that that 303 00:15:53,160 --> 00:15:57,200 Speaker 1: was probably terrified as well as a trauma for a nurse. 304 00:15:57,280 --> 00:15:59,960 Speaker 1: As we had previously talked about, secondary trauma is very 305 00:16:00,080 --> 00:16:04,200 Speaker 1: very common, especially with people who are um immediate, people 306 00:16:04,200 --> 00:16:06,960 Speaker 1: who come to responding any of the emergencies, including doing 307 00:16:06,960 --> 00:16:08,960 Speaker 1: the rape kids. And I'm guessing also when it comes 308 00:16:08,960 --> 00:16:13,200 Speaker 1: to financially, they're not compensated for taking all this extra 309 00:16:13,200 --> 00:16:16,480 Speaker 1: training and taking all this extra stress. Um. One of 310 00:16:16,520 --> 00:16:17,880 Speaker 1: the things I did want to ask you you were 311 00:16:17,880 --> 00:16:21,600 Speaker 1: talking about the rape kit, do you mind telling it 312 00:16:21,720 --> 00:16:25,920 Speaker 1: was exactly from walking into the Dodger's office and was 313 00:16:26,040 --> 00:16:27,520 Speaker 1: first of all, was the nurse do you know if 314 00:16:27,520 --> 00:16:31,320 Speaker 1: she was a certified saying nurse, so she was not 315 00:16:32,040 --> 00:16:36,080 Speaker 1: um this and I will say my nurse was awesome. UM. 316 00:16:36,120 --> 00:16:39,560 Speaker 1: I have told people since that experience that I personally 317 00:16:39,640 --> 00:16:42,200 Speaker 1: felt like the rape kit itself was more traumatic than 318 00:16:42,240 --> 00:16:46,360 Speaker 1: the actual assault because in my particular case, and I 319 00:16:46,400 --> 00:16:49,440 Speaker 1: don't mean to, you know, put any like to say 320 00:16:49,600 --> 00:16:52,440 Speaker 1: that it was not traumatic, but because I did not 321 00:16:52,600 --> 00:16:56,960 Speaker 1: remember it, um, it was. It was worse having to 322 00:16:57,040 --> 00:16:59,520 Speaker 1: go to the doctor and have all of these things 323 00:16:59,560 --> 00:17:02,920 Speaker 1: poked and potted and taken from you and all this stuff. Um. 324 00:17:03,000 --> 00:17:06,359 Speaker 1: She was very sweet. She was her name was Erica, 325 00:17:06,640 --> 00:17:08,359 Speaker 1: and I've always wanted to track her down and just 326 00:17:08,400 --> 00:17:10,280 Speaker 1: write her a little like thank you know, because she 327 00:17:10,560 --> 00:17:14,080 Speaker 1: was awesome. I was waiting in this hospital room for 328 00:17:14,200 --> 00:17:17,200 Speaker 1: like ever, you know, because it took forever, I guess 329 00:17:17,320 --> 00:17:20,240 Speaker 1: for the police department to get the rape kit and 330 00:17:20,280 --> 00:17:23,000 Speaker 1: then get it over to the hospital. I know she 331 00:17:23,080 --> 00:17:25,800 Speaker 1: came into the room maybe thirty minutes before it happened, 332 00:17:25,800 --> 00:17:27,520 Speaker 1: and she was kind of like, hey, you know, this 333 00:17:27,560 --> 00:17:29,600 Speaker 1: is what we're gonna do. The detective is going to 334 00:17:29,720 --> 00:17:32,240 Speaker 1: drop off this box and it's going to have all 335 00:17:32,280 --> 00:17:35,040 Speaker 1: the instructions in it, and she's like, I've never done 336 00:17:35,080 --> 00:17:37,280 Speaker 1: one of these, and I just want to be really 337 00:17:37,320 --> 00:17:39,680 Speaker 1: honest with you. The girl who usually doesn't isn't here 338 00:17:39,720 --> 00:17:42,000 Speaker 1: today and she can't come in. I'm gonna be doing 339 00:17:42,000 --> 00:17:44,720 Speaker 1: this with you, and I've watched them done, but I've 340 00:17:44,760 --> 00:17:47,320 Speaker 1: never actually done one. If I have to read the 341 00:17:47,359 --> 00:17:49,520 Speaker 1: instructions more than once, I just don't want you to 342 00:17:49,560 --> 00:17:52,000 Speaker 1: be freaked out. I was like, I've never had a 343 00:17:52,080 --> 00:17:54,399 Speaker 1: rape kit done, so it's cool, Like we'll get through it, 344 00:17:54,840 --> 00:17:58,520 Speaker 1: you know. And um, she was really great. They had 345 00:17:58,600 --> 00:18:01,800 Speaker 1: to pluck fifty pubic cares and then um, I know 346 00:18:01,840 --> 00:18:03,840 Speaker 1: there was like an anal swab. Of course, there was 347 00:18:03,880 --> 00:18:06,920 Speaker 1: like the full pelvic examination and they had to bring 348 00:18:06,960 --> 00:18:11,280 Speaker 1: a doctor in for that portion. Um, there were there. 349 00:18:11,400 --> 00:18:13,719 Speaker 1: They had to like comb through things and like they 350 00:18:13,760 --> 00:18:16,239 Speaker 1: were little bags and all this stuff. It was I 351 00:18:16,240 --> 00:18:19,520 Speaker 1: mean it took about between three and four hours to 352 00:18:19,600 --> 00:18:22,760 Speaker 1: do just that. Um. And I know the pelvic exam 353 00:18:22,840 --> 00:18:25,679 Speaker 1: was the final thing. And at that point I had 354 00:18:25,720 --> 00:18:27,360 Speaker 1: been in there, you know for three and a half 355 00:18:27,400 --> 00:18:30,359 Speaker 1: hours or something with this nurse. And I also know 356 00:18:30,440 --> 00:18:32,640 Speaker 1: that they were not They wouldn't allow me to leave 357 00:18:32,680 --> 00:18:35,119 Speaker 1: the room to like use the bathroom or anything, you know, 358 00:18:35,160 --> 00:18:37,800 Speaker 1: for evidence purposes. I remember when she had to do 359 00:18:37,920 --> 00:18:42,000 Speaker 1: the anal swab, I started crying. I remember looking at 360 00:18:42,040 --> 00:18:45,040 Speaker 1: her after that and just being like, wow, like this 361 00:18:45,080 --> 00:18:47,880 Speaker 1: is traumatic for you too, Like you're gonna go home 362 00:18:48,040 --> 00:18:50,359 Speaker 1: and your partner is going to be like, how is 363 00:18:50,400 --> 00:18:51,840 Speaker 1: your day at work? And you're gonna be like, well, 364 00:18:51,880 --> 00:18:53,720 Speaker 1: I randomly had to do a rape kit and it 365 00:18:53,760 --> 00:18:57,400 Speaker 1: was horrible, you know. Um, but yeah, it was. It 366 00:18:57,440 --> 00:19:01,760 Speaker 1: was really rough, and um, I think it kind of 367 00:19:02,680 --> 00:19:06,280 Speaker 1: it just made me even more question why I had 368 00:19:06,320 --> 00:19:08,520 Speaker 1: gone to the police. It felt a little bit like 369 00:19:08,600 --> 00:19:11,720 Speaker 1: it was like, Okay, prove how much you want to 370 00:19:11,760 --> 00:19:14,640 Speaker 1: go through with this. Then at that point I went 371 00:19:14,680 --> 00:19:19,040 Speaker 1: through several um, for lack of a better word, interrogation 372 00:19:19,080 --> 00:19:22,280 Speaker 1: sessions with the detectives who were assigned to my case, um, 373 00:19:22,359 --> 00:19:24,280 Speaker 1: while I was still in North Carolina, and then flew 374 00:19:24,359 --> 00:19:28,760 Speaker 1: back to Seattle, and um, you know, at that point 375 00:19:28,800 --> 00:19:30,880 Speaker 1: I didn't really hear much from them. I would call 376 00:19:30,960 --> 00:19:32,560 Speaker 1: them a lot, but not get a lot of phone 377 00:19:32,560 --> 00:19:36,520 Speaker 1: calls back. Didn't hear anything. In April, I finally like 378 00:19:36,680 --> 00:19:40,119 Speaker 1: called and he answered the phone, and um, he said, oh, 379 00:19:40,160 --> 00:19:42,240 Speaker 1: I thought you knew the d A dismissed it like 380 00:19:42,280 --> 00:19:44,359 Speaker 1: back in October, and I was like, no, I didn't 381 00:19:44,359 --> 00:19:47,360 Speaker 1: ever hear that, And uh, you know since then, I've 382 00:19:47,400 --> 00:19:50,520 Speaker 1: called you several times. So that was very frustrating to 383 00:19:50,560 --> 00:19:53,679 Speaker 1: find that out. And at that point, UM, I know 384 00:19:53,840 --> 00:19:59,840 Speaker 1: that it had been almost a year since it had happened, 385 00:20:00,200 --> 00:20:02,400 Speaker 1: and I believe that I don't know, like the statute 386 00:20:02,400 --> 00:20:04,400 Speaker 1: of limitations or whatever in North Carolina is like one 387 00:20:04,480 --> 00:20:06,679 Speaker 1: or two years or something. It was like just on 388 00:20:06,880 --> 00:20:09,399 Speaker 1: the verge of like it, like I wouldn't be able 389 00:20:09,440 --> 00:20:11,880 Speaker 1: to do anything about it. Um, So at that point 390 00:20:11,920 --> 00:20:15,760 Speaker 1: I just let it go. The statutes of limitations in Georgia, 391 00:20:16,200 --> 00:20:19,760 Speaker 1: so under our law, prosecution for sexual assault is supposed 392 00:20:19,800 --> 00:20:23,159 Speaker 1: to happen just four years after the offense unless you 393 00:20:23,240 --> 00:20:27,520 Speaker 1: have DNA evidence, and then that statute of limitations goes away. 394 00:20:27,960 --> 00:20:30,879 Speaker 1: Any time that you have that to establish identity, it 395 00:20:30,960 --> 00:20:35,080 Speaker 1: extends things. It's very upsetting when it's like, oh, okay, 396 00:20:35,160 --> 00:20:37,920 Speaker 1: like you know, this really did happen to me. There 397 00:20:38,040 --> 00:20:40,119 Speaker 1: was like kind of a lack of evidence because I 398 00:20:40,160 --> 00:20:42,560 Speaker 1: went to get the rape kit later than I was 399 00:20:42,600 --> 00:20:45,280 Speaker 1: supposed to. UM, but you know, at the same time 400 00:20:45,280 --> 00:20:49,199 Speaker 1: it did happen, and UM as well, there was an 401 00:20:49,240 --> 00:20:52,800 Speaker 1: audio recording. There was an audio recording on my phone 402 00:20:52,800 --> 00:20:55,359 Speaker 1: that was about three and a half hours long, and 403 00:20:55,560 --> 00:20:58,359 Speaker 1: it was um from like the moment that we walked 404 00:20:58,400 --> 00:21:02,399 Speaker 1: into their house until you know, the audio recorder finally 405 00:21:02,400 --> 00:21:04,719 Speaker 1: cut off. I had no idea that that was on 406 00:21:04,720 --> 00:21:07,880 Speaker 1: my phone because I was like completely messed up. It's 407 00:21:07,880 --> 00:21:11,560 Speaker 1: like I did not ever remember hitting record. Um. And 408 00:21:11,720 --> 00:21:15,199 Speaker 1: in my final little interview or interrogation or whatever with 409 00:21:15,240 --> 00:21:19,000 Speaker 1: the police, they were like, oh, you know, UM, do 410 00:21:19,080 --> 00:21:23,000 Speaker 1: you remember like giving verbal consent to the police officers 411 00:21:23,000 --> 00:21:24,919 Speaker 1: when you were at the hospital to take your phone? 412 00:21:24,960 --> 00:21:27,000 Speaker 1: And I said, yeah, you know, of course, because I 413 00:21:27,040 --> 00:21:28,480 Speaker 1: didn't know where I was and they were going to 414 00:21:28,720 --> 00:21:31,320 Speaker 1: use the little GPS thing or whatever to navig like 415 00:21:31,400 --> 00:21:34,439 Speaker 1: to figure out where I had been to pinpoint who 416 00:21:34,520 --> 00:21:36,520 Speaker 1: like what house, and like who it belonged to and 417 00:21:36,560 --> 00:21:40,360 Speaker 1: all of this, and they, I guess at that point, 418 00:21:40,440 --> 00:21:42,600 Speaker 1: had found this recording. And so they had been sitting 419 00:21:42,600 --> 00:21:44,560 Speaker 1: on this recording for like a week and had not 420 00:21:44,680 --> 00:21:47,040 Speaker 1: told me about it. And they said, well, we found 421 00:21:47,040 --> 00:21:51,680 Speaker 1: this audio recording of this evening on your phone. Um. 422 00:21:51,720 --> 00:21:54,239 Speaker 1: And they were like, why don't you just sit in 423 00:21:54,280 --> 00:21:57,240 Speaker 1: here and listen to it, and we'll like, once you're done, 424 00:21:57,320 --> 00:22:00,200 Speaker 1: come and get us and then we'll talk more. And 425 00:22:00,760 --> 00:22:02,560 Speaker 1: I didn't listen to the whole thing because I couldn't 426 00:22:02,960 --> 00:22:06,320 Speaker 1: um in the audio recording, I sound completely drunk, like 427 00:22:06,359 --> 00:22:09,040 Speaker 1: out of my mind, like I do not sound like myself. Um, 428 00:22:09,040 --> 00:22:12,800 Speaker 1: it was very like traumatic to listen to. UM. And 429 00:22:12,880 --> 00:22:16,360 Speaker 1: beyond that, I am continually saying like no and stop 430 00:22:16,400 --> 00:22:20,720 Speaker 1: and don't and things like that, and um, I it's 431 00:22:20,800 --> 00:22:23,199 Speaker 1: just it's it was really difficult to listen to. And 432 00:22:23,240 --> 00:22:24,960 Speaker 1: then on top of that, it's like, Okay, they had 433 00:22:25,000 --> 00:22:27,880 Speaker 1: all that evidence, like they had that they had an 434 00:22:27,880 --> 00:22:32,080 Speaker 1: audio recording of me saying no and telling them to stop, 435 00:22:32,560 --> 00:22:37,240 Speaker 1: and that was not good enough. If that's not good enough, 436 00:22:37,280 --> 00:22:42,160 Speaker 1: then what is, according to Renee not rape kits. We'll 437 00:22:42,200 --> 00:22:43,960 Speaker 1: get into that after a quick break for word from 438 00:22:43,960 --> 00:22:55,960 Speaker 1: our sponsor. M H, we're back, Thank you sponsor, And 439 00:22:56,000 --> 00:22:59,520 Speaker 1: here's Renee. When we hear rape kits, you think like 440 00:22:59,680 --> 00:23:03,560 Speaker 1: this giants, you know, like DNA testing, this is fool proof, 441 00:23:03,600 --> 00:23:06,879 Speaker 1: you know, like I swabbed your DNA off my body, 442 00:23:06,960 --> 00:23:11,720 Speaker 1: like you clearly did this. But the science is not, uh, 443 00:23:11,880 --> 00:23:15,359 Speaker 1: does not prove lack of consent, which is what the 444 00:23:15,400 --> 00:23:20,520 Speaker 1: criminal justice system is really focused on. Um, it just can't. 445 00:23:20,520 --> 00:23:22,960 Speaker 1: Like all it can do is is kind of like 446 00:23:24,000 --> 00:23:27,680 Speaker 1: yes or no, and then it's up to us society. 447 00:23:28,200 --> 00:23:33,120 Speaker 1: The prosecutor law enforcement to interpret that and say did 448 00:23:33,160 --> 00:23:36,480 Speaker 1: something happen or did something not happen, which is where 449 00:23:36,480 --> 00:23:39,159 Speaker 1: all the bias starts to roll in because in that 450 00:23:39,240 --> 00:23:43,080 Speaker 1: interpretation process, what you guys may have heard about the 451 00:23:43,119 --> 00:23:47,880 Speaker 1: Detroit backlog um and how that was uncovered. So this 452 00:23:47,960 --> 00:23:50,879 Speaker 1: is the case of Calvin Ry Kelly, and for twenty 453 00:23:50,920 --> 00:23:53,480 Speaker 1: five years, this truck driver, Kelly, he would use his 454 00:23:53,600 --> 00:23:56,560 Speaker 1: knowledge of these freeway dark spots to prey upon low 455 00:23:56,560 --> 00:23:59,840 Speaker 1: income black women who would not be believed by police. 456 00:24:00,560 --> 00:24:03,480 Speaker 1: In two thousand and seven, one of these women, Shawanna Hall, 457 00:24:04,040 --> 00:24:06,480 Speaker 1: was held by Kelly at knife point in rape three 458 00:24:06,520 --> 00:24:10,720 Speaker 1: times in one hour. When she finally escaped, she flagged 459 00:24:10,720 --> 00:24:14,120 Speaker 1: down a police officer who drove her to the Kalamazoo 460 00:24:14,400 --> 00:24:17,199 Speaker 1: Y w c A for the forensic medical exam and 461 00:24:17,240 --> 00:24:20,320 Speaker 1: she got a rape kit. Our years Okay, so those 462 00:24:20,359 --> 00:24:24,400 Speaker 1: two thousand seven, Um, Detroit still HASH is not processing 463 00:24:24,440 --> 00:24:28,480 Speaker 1: their backlogs efficiently, and her kid just gets forgotten and 464 00:24:28,520 --> 00:24:32,880 Speaker 1: it's put into that warehouse whereas ultimately discovered and then 465 00:24:32,960 --> 00:24:36,600 Speaker 1: launched in. What I see is kind of this resurgence 466 00:24:36,760 --> 00:24:40,480 Speaker 1: about the backlog testing and going back. So after all 467 00:24:40,480 --> 00:24:44,520 Speaker 1: these years, um, you know it's her kids sits there 468 00:24:45,080 --> 00:24:47,920 Speaker 1: and then it getsists covered and then finally fundraised to 469 00:24:48,000 --> 00:24:51,040 Speaker 1: test it UM and eventually her kid gets moved to 470 00:24:51,040 --> 00:24:53,680 Speaker 1: the crime lab and it gets tested UM. And when 471 00:24:53,680 --> 00:24:56,840 Speaker 1: they test her kit, they find that Kelly's DNA matches 472 00:24:56,880 --> 00:25:00,240 Speaker 1: to eleven assaults from other rape kits in fourced eights 473 00:25:00,280 --> 00:25:06,040 Speaker 1: between nineteen UM. So now it's seen it's a full 474 00:25:06,119 --> 00:25:09,920 Speaker 1: ten years after she's assaulted UM. And they take him 475 00:25:09,920 --> 00:25:13,439 Speaker 1: to trial and in they go through the whole trial, 476 00:25:13,680 --> 00:25:16,600 Speaker 1: they present the rape kit evidence she want a Hall 477 00:25:16,680 --> 00:25:20,920 Speaker 1: gets up and testifies, someone else testifies. They present that 478 00:25:21,200 --> 00:25:23,960 Speaker 1: his DNA has been you know, this guy is clearly 479 00:25:24,040 --> 00:25:26,400 Speaker 1: see a rapist and we have evidence to prove it. 480 00:25:26,880 --> 00:25:30,200 Speaker 1: And the jury takes one day to deliberate, and the 481 00:25:30,280 --> 00:25:34,600 Speaker 1: jury has eight women and four men on it, mostly white. 482 00:25:34,800 --> 00:25:37,760 Speaker 1: Ten of the twelve jurors are white. And they say 483 00:25:38,520 --> 00:25:45,840 Speaker 1: he's not guilty and so infuriating. So then the Michigan 484 00:25:46,160 --> 00:25:50,120 Speaker 1: Assistant Attorney General, UM, you know, they will sometimes interview 485 00:25:50,200 --> 00:25:54,120 Speaker 1: jury's afterwards to be like, you know, like why did 486 00:25:54,160 --> 00:25:57,080 Speaker 1: this happen? And so the jury says they just didn't 487 00:25:57,119 --> 00:26:00,240 Speaker 1: believe her testimony because they didn't think someone like her 488 00:26:00,280 --> 00:26:02,399 Speaker 1: could be raped and so that they just didn't believe 489 00:26:02,800 --> 00:26:05,159 Speaker 1: the d n A. And then one month later she 490 00:26:05,320 --> 00:26:08,640 Speaker 1: Wanna died of an opioid overdose, so she never got 491 00:26:08,680 --> 00:26:15,960 Speaker 1: any justice at all. M Yeah, that's infuriating, Yeah, very 492 00:26:16,080 --> 00:26:19,080 Speaker 1: very much so. I mean, this whole episode is on 493 00:26:19,119 --> 00:26:22,200 Speaker 1: the cost of coming forward, and that illustrates so much 494 00:26:22,240 --> 00:26:27,520 Speaker 1: of it because just the mental and emotional toll in 495 00:26:27,560 --> 00:26:32,080 Speaker 1: the physical like everything you've gone through and you wait 496 00:26:32,119 --> 00:26:34,320 Speaker 1: and you wait and you wait, and you think, well, 497 00:26:34,400 --> 00:26:37,840 Speaker 1: I did what I should have done to get justice, 498 00:26:38,160 --> 00:26:40,520 Speaker 1: and then I still don't. Yes, they went through all 499 00:26:40,560 --> 00:26:43,600 Speaker 1: of that and nothing, and on top of not being 500 00:26:43,720 --> 00:26:47,160 Speaker 1: able to get justice, you're called a liar. You're being 501 00:26:47,320 --> 00:26:50,600 Speaker 1: judged based on your race and based on your economic 502 00:26:50,640 --> 00:26:52,639 Speaker 1: status that has nothing to do with whether or not 503 00:26:52,640 --> 00:26:56,159 Speaker 1: you can be victimized. But therefore you're not believable and 504 00:26:56,200 --> 00:26:59,639 Speaker 1: you're not worth the time of our society, of our people, 505 00:26:59,640 --> 00:27:02,800 Speaker 1: of our judicial system to actually stand up for I mean, 506 00:27:02,880 --> 00:27:06,600 Speaker 1: it really shows why DNA and rape kits won't save us. 507 00:27:07,000 --> 00:27:10,399 Speaker 1: I mean, they they can't do a lot, and like 508 00:27:10,440 --> 00:27:13,919 Speaker 1: the rhetoric around them is is a little bit of 509 00:27:13,920 --> 00:27:16,800 Speaker 1: a savior narrative. You know that they are going to 510 00:27:17,880 --> 00:27:21,320 Speaker 1: prove what happened to you, that they are gonna specifically 511 00:27:21,359 --> 00:27:24,920 Speaker 1: identify the assailant. And then the third one that gets 512 00:27:24,920 --> 00:27:27,120 Speaker 1: invoked a lot is that it will prevent future rapes. 513 00:27:27,720 --> 00:27:30,600 Speaker 1: And this responsibility is placed on victims to get it 514 00:27:31,160 --> 00:27:33,520 Speaker 1: by saying that you getting this rape kit is going 515 00:27:33,560 --> 00:27:35,879 Speaker 1: to prevent this from happening to someone else, And the 516 00:27:35,920 --> 00:27:38,240 Speaker 1: idea behind it is that you would get the rape 517 00:27:38,320 --> 00:27:42,240 Speaker 1: kit and somehow magically the colonel justice system is going 518 00:27:42,280 --> 00:27:45,120 Speaker 1: to be you know, quick, quick, quick, which whatever is. 519 00:27:45,359 --> 00:27:47,879 Speaker 1: You know, we're going to neatly wrap wrap up this 520 00:27:48,240 --> 00:27:51,960 Speaker 1: prosecution and now this bad guys off the street. But 521 00:27:52,040 --> 00:27:55,040 Speaker 1: that just never happens. I mean, look a brock turner 522 00:27:55,880 --> 00:28:03,600 Speaker 1: to eyewitnesses and a rape kit, and he has a 523 00:28:03,640 --> 00:28:05,480 Speaker 1: future with the want ruin his future. And that was 524 00:28:05,640 --> 00:28:07,040 Speaker 1: what I was going to say. Even if they are 525 00:28:07,160 --> 00:28:10,000 Speaker 1: prosecuted and they are convicted, who's to say it's actually 526 00:28:10,040 --> 00:28:12,720 Speaker 1: justice other than okay, you believe me, but you don't 527 00:28:12,720 --> 00:28:15,240 Speaker 1: believe that he is the criminal that we see him 528 00:28:15,280 --> 00:28:19,160 Speaker 1: as or the predator that he has come forward as. 529 00:28:19,200 --> 00:28:21,240 Speaker 1: And you're saying that his time was worth more than mine, 530 00:28:21,359 --> 00:28:23,680 Speaker 1: his life was worth more than mine, And it's still 531 00:28:23,800 --> 00:28:26,560 Speaker 1: just just as bad almost that you had gone through 532 00:28:26,560 --> 00:28:31,840 Speaker 1: and sacrificed your your livelihood essentially to try to get justice, 533 00:28:32,000 --> 00:28:34,399 Speaker 1: and in the end that justice is worth maybe ten days, 534 00:28:34,800 --> 00:28:37,080 Speaker 1: eight months, you know, any of those time frames, and 535 00:28:37,119 --> 00:28:39,240 Speaker 1: it's kind of like, is it really worth it or 536 00:28:39,280 --> 00:28:42,440 Speaker 1: they just pleaded down to something exactly, which is another 537 00:28:42,440 --> 00:28:46,400 Speaker 1: reason why it's difficult to measure like these rave kit prosecutions. 538 00:28:46,440 --> 00:28:49,680 Speaker 1: Like you look at the so there's that number um 539 00:28:49,800 --> 00:28:53,400 Speaker 1: that Rain has put out. You know, so for every 540 00:28:53,640 --> 00:28:59,800 Speaker 1: thousand people who are assaulted, only like four point five perpetrators, well, 541 00:29:00,120 --> 00:29:02,360 Speaker 1: you know get a felony conviction. Like the numbers are 542 00:29:02,440 --> 00:29:07,640 Speaker 1: just appalling. I think one overlooked problem is how much 543 00:29:08,440 --> 00:29:10,560 Speaker 1: the role of law enforcement and all of this um. 544 00:29:10,760 --> 00:29:13,240 Speaker 1: And there are a lot of wonderful law enforcement out 545 00:29:13,240 --> 00:29:15,720 Speaker 1: there that I'm friends with and partner with and and 546 00:29:15,840 --> 00:29:18,240 Speaker 1: do really great job. The law enforce might have a 547 00:29:18,280 --> 00:29:20,960 Speaker 1: lot of discretionary power and deciding to prosecute a case 548 00:29:21,040 --> 00:29:23,520 Speaker 1: or not. There that first step, and there's a lot 549 00:29:23,600 --> 00:29:26,960 Speaker 1: of cases to get unfounded. You know, there's roughly around 550 00:29:27,000 --> 00:29:32,120 Speaker 1: eighteen thousand police departments in the US. UM has a 551 00:29:32,160 --> 00:29:35,160 Speaker 1: lot of different jurisdictions who may come across a rape 552 00:29:35,240 --> 00:29:37,640 Speaker 1: kit who have their own protocols on what to do. 553 00:29:38,160 --> 00:29:41,120 Speaker 1: So even just tackling that issues a lot. But police 554 00:29:41,120 --> 00:29:43,040 Speaker 1: are that first step in saying, you know, we're never 555 00:29:43,000 --> 00:29:45,160 Speaker 1: gonna bother with your case, We're just gonna unfound it. 556 00:29:45,680 --> 00:29:51,360 Speaker 1: National Institute Justice has investigated UM Baltimore, Detroit into looking 557 00:29:51,400 --> 00:29:54,320 Speaker 1: into like what happens with with those rape kits in 558 00:29:54,360 --> 00:29:58,680 Speaker 1: the Detroit one. So of the eleven thousand, three hundred 559 00:29:58,800 --> 00:30:04,520 Speaker 1: forty one kits that just were forgotten in that warehouse, UM, 560 00:30:04,680 --> 00:30:08,560 Speaker 1: they disproportionately belonged to women of color. Wayne County, which 561 00:30:08,600 --> 00:30:13,120 Speaker 1: is that county is fifty four percent white, but one 562 00:30:13,240 --> 00:30:17,240 Speaker 1: percent of the rape kits belonged to black women. So 563 00:30:17,600 --> 00:30:22,720 Speaker 1: you know there's definitely disparities happening there and that law 564 00:30:22,840 --> 00:30:26,160 Speaker 1: enforcements racial biases can really come out. So the d 565 00:30:26,480 --> 00:30:29,880 Speaker 1: J did an investigation into Baltimore because the complaints were 566 00:30:29,920 --> 00:30:33,040 Speaker 1: so egregious about what was happening there. And in the 567 00:30:33,080 --> 00:30:37,000 Speaker 1: investigation they found that when police were investigating sexual assault 568 00:30:37,040 --> 00:30:41,920 Speaker 1: cases UM that they were using racial slurs against women. 569 00:30:42,520 --> 00:30:47,440 Speaker 1: UM systematically unfounding their cases, which is where you just 570 00:30:47,560 --> 00:30:51,440 Speaker 1: closed the case without investigating, just say, oh, nothing happened here, 571 00:30:51,520 --> 00:30:53,400 Speaker 1: We're just going to close it. Sorry, I don't want 572 00:30:53,400 --> 00:30:55,320 Speaker 1: to say that's the only reason that something is unfounded. 573 00:30:55,320 --> 00:30:59,800 Speaker 1: There's there's more reasons. But anyway, racial biases rampant. There. 574 00:31:00,920 --> 00:31:03,040 Speaker 1: Another aspect of the rape kit we need to talk 575 00:31:03,080 --> 00:31:07,480 Speaker 1: about is the financial cost. So the first thing to know, 576 00:31:08,240 --> 00:31:11,840 Speaker 1: the cost of getting your forensic medical exam in the 577 00:31:11,920 --> 00:31:17,960 Speaker 1: rape kit completed will vary by state. So most states 578 00:31:18,920 --> 00:31:22,040 Speaker 1: have a crime victims compensation law. So if you are 579 00:31:22,040 --> 00:31:25,280 Speaker 1: assaulted and you go to have your rape kit done 580 00:31:25,400 --> 00:31:28,360 Speaker 1: because you're a victim of a crime, that you should 581 00:31:28,360 --> 00:31:31,160 Speaker 1: not have to pay for it. And so in Georgia, 582 00:31:31,600 --> 00:31:35,960 Speaker 1: UM the Criminal Justice Coordinating Council has set some guidelines 583 00:31:36,040 --> 00:31:39,080 Speaker 1: about UM what it will cost to get a rape kit, 584 00:31:39,440 --> 00:31:42,640 Speaker 1: and they will reimburse you. UM, they will pay for 585 00:31:42,680 --> 00:31:45,400 Speaker 1: it up to a cost of a thousand dollars. It 586 00:31:45,520 --> 00:31:47,200 Speaker 1: turns out it cost a lot more than a thousand 587 00:31:47,200 --> 00:31:49,760 Speaker 1: dollars to get a rape kit done, often just for 588 00:31:49,800 --> 00:31:54,320 Speaker 1: the medical exam. UM is estimated that that cost three 589 00:31:56,080 --> 00:32:00,920 Speaker 1: in seventies cents just for the examination the in um, 590 00:32:00,960 --> 00:32:03,360 Speaker 1: the cost of that kit, the cost of the boxing swabs, 591 00:32:03,400 --> 00:32:07,320 Speaker 1: that's only six dollars in twenty nine cents, which is good. Um. 592 00:32:07,360 --> 00:32:11,120 Speaker 1: If you add on copuscopy, which is that camera that 593 00:32:11,320 --> 00:32:17,280 Speaker 1: can magnify and visualized trauma, that's two nine dollars. You're 594 00:32:17,280 --> 00:32:22,800 Speaker 1: in culture fifteen dollars, lab tests for pregnancy twelve dollars, 595 00:32:23,440 --> 00:32:28,720 Speaker 1: gonerigo culture eighty dollars, Clamydia culture thirty six dollars, hepatitis 596 00:32:28,760 --> 00:32:33,360 Speaker 1: panel eighty eight dollars, herpes panel fifty six dollars. Keeps 597 00:32:33,400 --> 00:32:36,920 Speaker 1: adding up, it's roughly sixteen hundred dollars to get your 598 00:32:37,000 --> 00:32:41,880 Speaker 1: rape kit done here in Georgia, according to Criminal Justice 599 00:32:41,880 --> 00:32:47,320 Speaker 1: Coordinating Council. So that's a lot of money. Um. Victims 600 00:32:47,760 --> 00:32:52,440 Speaker 1: survivors are not supposed to incur that cost, but if 601 00:32:52,600 --> 00:32:57,480 Speaker 1: the hospital personnel is not knowledgeable about the victims compensation process, 602 00:32:57,520 --> 00:33:01,719 Speaker 1: which can be very complicated, then that survivor can end 603 00:33:01,800 --> 00:33:05,800 Speaker 1: up and create those costs. We speak about. The cost 604 00:33:05,960 --> 00:33:08,360 Speaker 1: is the cost of getting it at the hospital, and 605 00:33:08,360 --> 00:33:12,240 Speaker 1: then there's like kind of these unseen costs that are 606 00:33:12,280 --> 00:33:15,040 Speaker 1: attached to the rape kit. You know, So on average 607 00:33:15,080 --> 00:33:18,920 Speaker 1: is to test the kit you know. So so now 608 00:33:19,080 --> 00:33:23,120 Speaker 1: there's a cost attached to that, which certainly, uh, the 609 00:33:23,200 --> 00:33:27,640 Speaker 1: survivors not incurring, but you know, that is still cost associated. 610 00:33:28,440 --> 00:33:32,840 Speaker 1: So there's the cost to UM staff law enforcement to 611 00:33:32,960 --> 00:33:35,880 Speaker 1: investigate the cases. You know, Atlanta is a very large city, 612 00:33:35,920 --> 00:33:40,080 Speaker 1: but our Special Victims unit is small. Um, just handful 613 00:33:40,160 --> 00:33:44,040 Speaker 1: of people who are investigating all these cases, and those 614 00:33:44,040 --> 00:33:46,360 Speaker 1: of you you want to do because they're at least 615 00:33:46,360 --> 00:33:49,240 Speaker 1: you know, more trained and used to investigating these cases. 616 00:33:49,280 --> 00:33:51,760 Speaker 1: And then you have the costs for the prosecutor, and 617 00:33:51,800 --> 00:33:53,400 Speaker 1: then you have the cost for the trial. So all 618 00:33:53,440 --> 00:33:55,640 Speaker 1: those things add up. So when we only talk about 619 00:33:55,920 --> 00:33:59,120 Speaker 1: you know, the backlog and testing, it's like, okay, first, 620 00:33:59,200 --> 00:34:01,800 Speaker 1: then we got to work to follow that case all 621 00:34:01,800 --> 00:34:04,400 Speaker 1: the way through, and then like dealing with the biases 622 00:34:05,720 --> 00:34:08,160 Speaker 1: the survivor isn't meant to encourage any of the cost 623 00:34:08,239 --> 00:34:10,560 Speaker 1: of the rape kid. But that isn't always the case. 624 00:34:10,920 --> 00:34:13,279 Speaker 1: Here was Rebecca about what happened after she got her 625 00:34:13,320 --> 00:34:16,680 Speaker 1: rape kid done. So after all of that, I remember 626 00:34:16,760 --> 00:34:20,000 Speaker 1: leaving the hospital and uh like checking out or whatever, 627 00:34:20,040 --> 00:34:21,719 Speaker 1: you know, and you you have to sign out and 628 00:34:21,719 --> 00:34:24,439 Speaker 1: all this stuff, and um, they gave me like prescriptions 629 00:34:24,480 --> 00:34:27,080 Speaker 1: for various things. I had a lot of prescriptions. It 630 00:34:27,200 --> 00:34:30,400 Speaker 1: was like the it was Plan B. It was like 631 00:34:30,440 --> 00:34:34,920 Speaker 1: an h I V prep thing. Um. That was fairly 632 00:34:35,000 --> 00:34:37,600 Speaker 1: new at the time too, I think, Um, like I 633 00:34:37,600 --> 00:34:39,560 Speaker 1: had to get a shot for like Gonorea or something. 634 00:34:39,600 --> 00:34:41,480 Speaker 1: I mean, there was a there was it was a 635 00:34:41,480 --> 00:34:44,319 Speaker 1: lot of medical stuff. Um. And when I left, we 636 00:34:44,360 --> 00:34:46,080 Speaker 1: went to a pharmacy and I got all of these 637 00:34:46,120 --> 00:34:48,359 Speaker 1: pills and I was like, you know, supposed to take 638 00:34:48,400 --> 00:34:51,279 Speaker 1: them all and everything. And that was really expensive. I 639 00:34:51,280 --> 00:34:53,680 Speaker 1: think that was like probably like three bucks. And I 640 00:34:53,760 --> 00:34:56,440 Speaker 1: had full insurance at the time. You know. I also 641 00:34:56,640 --> 00:34:59,360 Speaker 1: was told that I needed a schedule, like different appointments 642 00:34:59,400 --> 00:35:02,920 Speaker 1: to make sure that I was fine. Um, And I 643 00:35:02,920 --> 00:35:04,759 Speaker 1: know those were pretty expensive. I paid all of those 644 00:35:04,760 --> 00:35:07,120 Speaker 1: out of pocket and I don't have the receipts for 645 00:35:07,160 --> 00:35:09,279 Speaker 1: those anymore, but I would say probably upwards of like 646 00:35:09,320 --> 00:35:14,279 Speaker 1: six hundred bucks, you know. Um. And I had kind 647 00:35:14,280 --> 00:35:16,279 Speaker 1: of been like, okay, you know, the rape kit thing 648 00:35:16,640 --> 00:35:18,960 Speaker 1: is done, like, you know, no big deal. They had 649 00:35:18,960 --> 00:35:21,880 Speaker 1: told me, okay, you know for this medical bill that 650 00:35:21,880 --> 00:35:24,080 Speaker 1: you'll receive in the mail. This is when I checked 651 00:35:24,080 --> 00:35:25,960 Speaker 1: out the hospital. They were like, when you get it 652 00:35:25,960 --> 00:35:28,080 Speaker 1: in the mail, you need to send a copy of 653 00:35:28,080 --> 00:35:31,520 Speaker 1: it to Crime Victims Compensation. They gave me forms and 654 00:35:31,600 --> 00:35:34,440 Speaker 1: stuff at the hospital that I took with me to Seattle. 655 00:35:35,120 --> 00:35:37,319 Speaker 1: UM I had filled all those out. When I got 656 00:35:37,320 --> 00:35:40,560 Speaker 1: my first medical bill, I was shocked. I was just wrecked. 657 00:35:40,600 --> 00:35:43,800 Speaker 1: It was like four thousand and thirty two dollars or 658 00:35:43,840 --> 00:35:46,520 Speaker 1: something just for the rape kit, and UM. I was like, 659 00:35:46,560 --> 00:35:50,520 Speaker 1: oh my god. So I sent in all the stuff, UM, 660 00:35:50,880 --> 00:35:53,279 Speaker 1: and just kind of waited, um, you know, because it's 661 00:35:53,320 --> 00:35:55,600 Speaker 1: like a fairly long process. I at one point was 662 00:35:55,920 --> 00:35:58,279 Speaker 1: on like first name basis with this woman at the 663 00:35:58,320 --> 00:36:02,200 Speaker 1: Crime Victims Compensation this in North Carolina, because I would 664 00:36:02,200 --> 00:36:04,359 Speaker 1: call and be like, hey, what's the status with this? 665 00:36:04,520 --> 00:36:06,440 Speaker 1: You know, because I don't have four thousand dollars just 666 00:36:06,520 --> 00:36:13,359 Speaker 1: laying around. So I was assaulted in July. In February 667 00:36:13,440 --> 00:36:20,520 Speaker 1: of twenty seventeen, UM, I had received another bill from 668 00:36:20,560 --> 00:36:24,840 Speaker 1: a collections agency, which means that the hospital had sold 669 00:36:24,880 --> 00:36:29,400 Speaker 1: that debt to somebody. And UM, they were like, we 670 00:36:29,440 --> 00:36:32,359 Speaker 1: need you to pay this by next month. Um, and 671 00:36:32,400 --> 00:36:34,880 Speaker 1: it's four thousand dollars. So I called them and I 672 00:36:34,920 --> 00:36:37,880 Speaker 1: was like, clearly, there's been a mistake. I was like 673 00:36:38,000 --> 00:36:41,400 Speaker 1: I was assaulted, blah blah blah, and uh. They were like, 674 00:36:41,480 --> 00:36:44,280 Speaker 1: you just need to call Crime Victims Compensation because clearly 675 00:36:44,360 --> 00:36:47,600 Speaker 1: something got lost. So when I called in February of 676 00:36:49,120 --> 00:36:52,759 Speaker 1: the woman at Crime Victims Compensation was like, oh yeah, um, 677 00:36:53,040 --> 00:36:55,759 Speaker 1: I will look up your file really quick. And she 678 00:36:55,840 --> 00:36:58,000 Speaker 1: looked it up and she was like, oh, I see 679 00:36:58,040 --> 00:37:01,640 Speaker 1: what happened. The police depart meant never submitted their copy 680 00:37:01,680 --> 00:37:05,720 Speaker 1: of the police report. I was like, okay, well that's fine, 681 00:37:05,840 --> 00:37:08,759 Speaker 1: we can still have them do that, right, No, the 682 00:37:08,800 --> 00:37:11,919 Speaker 1: statute of limitations in North Carolina is such that at 683 00:37:11,960 --> 00:37:15,719 Speaker 1: that point in February it was past that. So even 684 00:37:15,800 --> 00:37:19,239 Speaker 1: if they had retroactively sent it, it was beyond the 685 00:37:19,320 --> 00:37:23,480 Speaker 1: time frame for it to be accepted. And so I 686 00:37:23,560 --> 00:37:27,800 Speaker 1: just spent the next year dealing with this collections agency, 687 00:37:28,280 --> 00:37:30,799 Speaker 1: trying to get them to understand, trying to get them 688 00:37:30,840 --> 00:37:33,800 Speaker 1: to talk to the hospital, talking to the hospital, explaining 689 00:37:33,840 --> 00:37:36,480 Speaker 1: to them, you know, um, nobody really seemed to care. 690 00:37:36,760 --> 00:37:39,239 Speaker 1: So I finally, I think last year, so in like 691 00:37:39,400 --> 00:37:42,319 Speaker 1: March of I set up a go fund me and 692 00:37:42,360 --> 00:37:44,520 Speaker 1: I was like, screw it, I don't even care. Who 693 00:37:44,520 --> 00:37:47,600 Speaker 1: knows if I've been raped? Like whatever, there's no shame 694 00:37:47,640 --> 00:37:50,239 Speaker 1: in that. Um. So I just shared it on my 695 00:37:50,280 --> 00:37:52,399 Speaker 1: Facebook and I was like, hey, guys, I need help 696 00:37:52,520 --> 00:37:55,479 Speaker 1: keeping my rape kit off of my credit history because 697 00:37:55,480 --> 00:37:57,400 Speaker 1: at that point the collections agency had said, if you 698 00:37:57,400 --> 00:37:59,719 Speaker 1: don't pay this, we're gonna send it. Um you know, 699 00:37:59,719 --> 00:38:01,439 Speaker 1: it will be on your credit history for the next 700 00:38:01,480 --> 00:38:04,400 Speaker 1: seven years. And it's like, look in seven years, what 701 00:38:04,520 --> 00:38:06,319 Speaker 1: I just want to be able to buy a car, 702 00:38:06,520 --> 00:38:09,560 Speaker 1: buy a home, like do something and not have to 703 00:38:09,600 --> 00:38:13,279 Speaker 1: be like, oh, yeah, I was raped this time. Through 704 00:38:13,360 --> 00:38:15,320 Speaker 1: posting that, I was able to raise the amount of 705 00:38:15,360 --> 00:38:18,160 Speaker 1: money I mean so quick, Like I think all of 706 00:38:18,200 --> 00:38:20,920 Speaker 1: my friends and even people that I don't know donated 707 00:38:20,960 --> 00:38:23,759 Speaker 1: to it, and I raised the exact amount of money 708 00:38:23,760 --> 00:38:26,200 Speaker 1: that I needed. And so that is now like taken 709 00:38:26,239 --> 00:38:31,560 Speaker 1: care of. But it sucks that it took that like that, 710 00:38:31,560 --> 00:38:34,040 Speaker 1: that my friends had to help pay for my rape kit. 711 00:38:34,719 --> 00:38:41,239 Speaker 1: That clearly is not an ideal scenario or outcome. What 712 00:38:41,400 --> 00:38:44,520 Speaker 1: should happen after you get a rape kit done. We'll 713 00:38:44,520 --> 00:38:46,520 Speaker 1: get into that after one more quick break for word 714 00:38:46,520 --> 00:38:59,040 Speaker 1: from our sponsor m H and we're back, Thank you sponsor, 715 00:39:00,200 --> 00:39:03,480 Speaker 1: and here's your name. This is this is where it 716 00:39:03,520 --> 00:39:06,520 Speaker 1: gets interesting. So there's what's supposed to happen, and then 717 00:39:06,560 --> 00:39:10,520 Speaker 1: there they're what does happen more terms than not, which 718 00:39:10,560 --> 00:39:13,719 Speaker 1: creates the inconsistency. So what's supposed to happen here in 719 00:39:13,760 --> 00:39:17,880 Speaker 1: Georgia is that the UM at the hospital, they send 720 00:39:17,880 --> 00:39:20,240 Speaker 1: that kit over to the g b I, the Georgia 721 00:39:20,239 --> 00:39:25,959 Speaker 1: Bureau of Investigation, and they will proceed with testing the kit. Um, 722 00:39:26,040 --> 00:39:29,520 Speaker 1: you can get a kit done and not report to 723 00:39:29,600 --> 00:39:34,640 Speaker 1: police also, so that you know, is another mediating factor 724 00:39:34,719 --> 00:39:37,480 Speaker 1: of where things can start to splinter off. So you know, 725 00:39:37,480 --> 00:39:39,880 Speaker 1: if you choose to report the police and the police 726 00:39:39,880 --> 00:39:43,439 Speaker 1: will have that report, they'll have that case open um 727 00:39:43,520 --> 00:39:46,000 Speaker 1: it should be associated with the kit. There'll be more 728 00:39:46,040 --> 00:39:48,760 Speaker 1: areas to follow up on. But you could just get 729 00:39:49,239 --> 00:39:51,759 Speaker 1: a kit done and you're not sure what you want 730 00:39:51,760 --> 00:39:54,640 Speaker 1: to do. So there were some issues UM a couple 731 00:39:54,680 --> 00:39:59,040 Speaker 1: of years back where some rape kits had been collected 732 00:39:59,040 --> 00:40:01,560 Speaker 1: at hospitals and they had not been transferred to the 733 00:40:01,600 --> 00:40:05,399 Speaker 1: g b I. And so what the reasoning was from 734 00:40:05,400 --> 00:40:08,080 Speaker 1: the hospital's perspective is they didn't know that they were 735 00:40:08,080 --> 00:40:10,160 Speaker 1: supposed to send them. They thought it was a violation 736 00:40:10,680 --> 00:40:13,320 Speaker 1: of the person's right to privacy, and so they didn't 737 00:40:13,320 --> 00:40:15,839 Speaker 1: send them. So when you just when you start looking 738 00:40:15,880 --> 00:40:18,560 Speaker 1: at rape kits, what you discover is you're supposed to 739 00:40:18,600 --> 00:40:23,879 Speaker 1: have this clear path from the hospital to um prosecution. 740 00:40:23,960 --> 00:40:27,600 Speaker 1: When the judges slamming the gavel and almost that every 741 00:40:27,719 --> 00:40:33,000 Speaker 1: point it the system becomes more complicated and in a 742 00:40:33,080 --> 00:40:36,800 Speaker 1: breakdown and makes it extremely difficult to tackle this issue 743 00:40:36,880 --> 00:40:40,360 Speaker 1: from either a system's perspective or even what it's like 744 00:40:40,440 --> 00:40:42,680 Speaker 1: to be a person caught up in this and experiencing 745 00:40:42,719 --> 00:40:45,920 Speaker 1: it can often be a total nightmare. And then in 746 00:40:46,040 --> 00:40:48,400 Speaker 1: terms of just researching it and trying to like wrap 747 00:40:48,440 --> 00:40:51,600 Speaker 1: your hands around what is in the world is going 748 00:40:51,680 --> 00:40:56,240 Speaker 1: on with rape kits, it just becomes very complicated. Something 749 00:40:56,239 --> 00:40:58,319 Speaker 1: else that is complicated is getting to the bottom of 750 00:40:58,360 --> 00:41:02,319 Speaker 1: any numerical data around rape kids. What I found out 751 00:41:02,440 --> 00:41:06,920 Speaker 1: is that that not like you cannot find that number UM. 752 00:41:06,920 --> 00:41:09,879 Speaker 1: And I dug deep, y'all. Like I even went as 753 00:41:09,880 --> 00:41:12,919 Speaker 1: far as to call the manufacturing companies who make rape 754 00:41:13,000 --> 00:41:15,239 Speaker 1: kits and just say how many have you sold? Like, 755 00:41:15,320 --> 00:41:17,640 Speaker 1: can you just even give me a ballpark number of 756 00:41:17,719 --> 00:41:21,320 Speaker 1: what that figure is? They did not tell me many 757 00:41:21,480 --> 00:41:25,200 Speaker 1: they sold, UM, But I you know, I kept digging 758 00:41:25,239 --> 00:41:27,040 Speaker 1: because I thought that might be one way to at 759 00:41:27,120 --> 00:41:29,920 Speaker 1: least know, you know, how many states have purchased these? 760 00:41:29,920 --> 00:41:34,560 Speaker 1: Could we check them year over year. So there's there's 761 00:41:34,640 --> 00:41:40,080 Speaker 1: no information on how many kits have been bought that 762 00:41:40,120 --> 00:41:43,400 Speaker 1: our public. UM. I might say there is an exception 763 00:41:43,560 --> 00:41:47,640 Speaker 1: for those states who um all use the same rape kit, 764 00:41:47,719 --> 00:41:51,440 Speaker 1: because then you could floya freedom of information after requests 765 00:41:51,840 --> 00:41:56,440 Speaker 1: um what state dollars were spent on rape kits. So 766 00:41:56,480 --> 00:41:58,319 Speaker 1: I'm a fan of states that do that because I 767 00:41:58,320 --> 00:42:01,480 Speaker 1: feel like there's a paper trail you can start to 768 00:42:01,520 --> 00:42:05,560 Speaker 1: dig and uncover. UM. But you know, as you might 769 00:42:05,600 --> 00:42:08,520 Speaker 1: have read with with the backlog, and part of the 770 00:42:08,560 --> 00:42:11,280 Speaker 1: issue of the backlog is that there was no list 771 00:42:11,760 --> 00:42:16,480 Speaker 1: of people keeping track. So right now we just don't know. 772 00:42:16,840 --> 00:42:21,799 Speaker 1: We know it's um, it's a lot, but we don't 773 00:42:21,840 --> 00:42:25,040 Speaker 1: know exactly how much. And even in the UM National 774 00:42:25,080 --> 00:42:29,360 Speaker 1: Crime Victimization Survey, which is often used to try to 775 00:42:29,480 --> 00:42:33,920 Speaker 1: estimate how many people have experienced sexual violence, there's this 776 00:42:33,960 --> 00:42:39,200 Speaker 1: is a national survey. UM, it's been done for decades. UM. 777 00:42:39,360 --> 00:42:41,480 Speaker 1: What they do is just like old school call like 778 00:42:41,560 --> 00:42:44,319 Speaker 1: cold call people and say hey, have you been a 779 00:42:44,400 --> 00:42:46,240 Speaker 1: victim of a crime, and then asked them like ninety 780 00:42:46,320 --> 00:42:50,200 Speaker 1: questions and if thousands of people respond and then they 781 00:42:50,280 --> 00:42:53,760 Speaker 1: use that to make the estimates. So there's one question 782 00:42:53,800 --> 00:42:56,160 Speaker 1: that it kind of gets at rape kits, and it 783 00:42:56,320 --> 00:43:00,719 Speaker 1: just asked if you had medical treatment afterward? Um, But 784 00:43:00,800 --> 00:43:07,640 Speaker 1: it doesn't specify rape kits. So even from the surveys 785 00:43:07,680 --> 00:43:09,879 Speaker 1: that we you know, we would normally use to try 786 00:43:09,920 --> 00:43:12,799 Speaker 1: to estimate the prevalence, we still cannot even get at 787 00:43:12,840 --> 00:43:16,839 Speaker 1: the number of rape kits that are done. Um, what 788 00:43:16,880 --> 00:43:21,960 Speaker 1: we do know is anecdotal. So you know, since Georgia 789 00:43:22,120 --> 00:43:25,680 Speaker 1: has been more proactive about doing its rape kits, the 790 00:43:25,719 --> 00:43:29,960 Speaker 1: gb I says it gets to fifty a month despite 791 00:43:29,960 --> 00:43:34,239 Speaker 1: its problems. Now, the rape kit was a revolutionary feminist invention, 792 00:43:34,320 --> 00:43:36,680 Speaker 1: meant to make it easier for survivors to get justice 793 00:43:36,960 --> 00:43:40,440 Speaker 1: when no one was advocating for them. But over the years, 794 00:43:40,520 --> 00:43:44,480 Speaker 1: the loss of oversight has plagued rape kits. The history 795 00:43:44,480 --> 00:43:47,640 Speaker 1: of the rape kit is a really fascinating story. So 796 00:43:48,120 --> 00:43:52,600 Speaker 1: back in the seventies in Chicago, this let's see about 797 00:43:52,640 --> 00:43:56,439 Speaker 1: seventy three, um, And this is before there was any 798 00:43:56,520 --> 00:44:02,040 Speaker 1: kind of victims rights movement. There's really no victim advocacy movement. 799 00:44:02,160 --> 00:44:05,560 Speaker 1: This is really kind of at the this fledgling time 800 00:44:06,239 --> 00:44:09,839 Speaker 1: in our national consciousness where we're like, hey, people who 801 00:44:10,000 --> 00:44:13,839 Speaker 1: have been victimized, we should care about them and advocate 802 00:44:13,920 --> 00:44:21,319 Speaker 1: for the rights. The system isn't treating them well exactly. Um. 803 00:44:21,360 --> 00:44:25,920 Speaker 1: So there was this woman, Marty Goddard, and she worked 804 00:44:26,080 --> 00:44:30,759 Speaker 1: in um she worked in other gender violence issues, and 805 00:44:30,760 --> 00:44:35,120 Speaker 1: she she went to this this meeting of these these 806 00:44:35,160 --> 00:44:37,920 Speaker 1: feminist women who are really upset, and they were upset 807 00:44:38,480 --> 00:44:41,560 Speaker 1: about how the police were treating rape victims. And they 808 00:44:41,560 --> 00:44:45,040 Speaker 1: were very fiery. Um. You know, they're like these cups 809 00:44:45,080 --> 00:44:47,319 Speaker 1: are pigs, Like we don't need them, we should do 810 00:44:47,320 --> 00:44:50,440 Speaker 1: it for ourselves. And she was sitting there and observed 811 00:44:50,480 --> 00:44:53,200 Speaker 1: the room and like half the room is like, you know, 812 00:44:54,000 --> 00:44:56,520 Speaker 1: f the man, we don't want anything to do with you. 813 00:44:56,560 --> 00:44:58,680 Speaker 1: And the other half was like, Okay, maybe you know, 814 00:44:58,760 --> 00:45:01,359 Speaker 1: we can try the problem save around that. So she 815 00:45:01,760 --> 00:45:04,200 Speaker 1: kind of went over to this other side and was like, 816 00:45:04,400 --> 00:45:07,520 Speaker 1: I'm a smart lady, maybe we can figure this out. 817 00:45:07,800 --> 00:45:12,680 Speaker 1: So she partnered up with this professor uh of the 818 00:45:12,800 --> 00:45:15,799 Speaker 1: University of Chicago, and the two of them are like, 819 00:45:16,120 --> 00:45:18,279 Speaker 1: we're just gonna do some basic research. We're going to 820 00:45:18,400 --> 00:45:21,840 Speaker 1: travel around Illinois. We have to travel for our jobs, 821 00:45:22,120 --> 00:45:26,759 Speaker 1: and we're gonna go cold call police officers. UM just 822 00:45:26,840 --> 00:45:29,520 Speaker 1: walk in and start asking some questions and see what 823 00:45:29,560 --> 00:45:33,480 Speaker 1: we can figure out. Hey, law enforcement, like can you 824 00:45:33,520 --> 00:45:36,920 Speaker 1: just tell me what's the deal with your rape cases? 825 00:45:37,040 --> 00:45:39,640 Speaker 1: Like what are the problems? What's doing this? And people 826 00:45:39,640 --> 00:45:42,800 Speaker 1: would talk to them. So they gathered all this evidence 827 00:45:42,880 --> 00:45:46,640 Speaker 1: and eventually they became friends with the Chicago crime Lab. 828 00:45:47,120 --> 00:45:49,400 Speaker 1: And the people in the Chicago Crime Lab we're like, Okay, 829 00:45:49,440 --> 00:45:53,600 Speaker 1: the real deal is we can't get anywhere on rape 830 00:45:53,600 --> 00:45:57,439 Speaker 1: cases because we don't get good evidence. The evidence that 831 00:45:57,520 --> 00:46:01,800 Speaker 1: we get is basically garbage. UM. The people the hospital 832 00:46:01,920 --> 00:46:04,759 Speaker 1: mean well, but they have no earthly idea what to do. 833 00:46:05,200 --> 00:46:08,839 Speaker 1: You know. They'll take, uh, you know, we'll swab your 834 00:46:08,880 --> 00:46:11,200 Speaker 1: cheek and put on one slide and then you know, 835 00:46:11,280 --> 00:46:14,440 Speaker 1: we'll swab another party body and put on this other 836 00:46:14,480 --> 00:46:18,040 Speaker 1: slide and then we'll just slap them together. So so 837 00:46:18,239 --> 00:46:22,840 Speaker 1: like no sense of UM how to handle you know, 838 00:46:22,880 --> 00:46:26,359 Speaker 1: forensic data. And she's like, okay, I can work with this, 839 00:46:26,880 --> 00:46:30,040 Speaker 1: and so she engages in this multi year process to 840 00:46:30,960 --> 00:46:35,440 Speaker 1: um create this rape kit in prototype it and so 841 00:46:35,840 --> 00:46:38,359 Speaker 1: she rallies some other people around and they build out 842 00:46:38,400 --> 00:46:41,160 Speaker 1: these protocols. They build out, you know, what the rape 843 00:46:41,239 --> 00:46:45,359 Speaker 1: kit should look like. And then um, they're like, oh, 844 00:46:45,400 --> 00:46:49,319 Speaker 1: we need funding. There's no funding for the rape kit. 845 00:46:49,520 --> 00:46:53,120 Speaker 1: It's the seventies. There's no victim advocacy. All of these 846 00:46:53,160 --> 00:46:57,040 Speaker 1: men control the grant funds. They you know, they give 847 00:46:57,080 --> 00:46:59,920 Speaker 1: money the girl Scouts. They think that's sufficient. Um, they 848 00:47:00,000 --> 00:47:02,480 Speaker 1: don't really want to support this, And so she hooks 849 00:47:02,600 --> 00:47:06,480 Speaker 1: up with some of her friends who connect her with 850 00:47:06,840 --> 00:47:10,840 Speaker 1: the Playboy Foundation. And the Playboy Foundation steps up and 851 00:47:10,840 --> 00:47:14,160 Speaker 1: they're like, yeah, this is a great idea. We're gonna 852 00:47:14,480 --> 00:47:17,680 Speaker 1: um completely fund the first ten thousand kids. And oh, 853 00:47:17,719 --> 00:47:20,719 Speaker 1: by the way, you need people to assemble it. Well, 854 00:47:20,760 --> 00:47:24,120 Speaker 1: we're gonna take these um it was called the Retired 855 00:47:24,320 --> 00:47:29,759 Speaker 1: Person's Volunteer Service r SPPE. We're gonna they think the 856 00:47:29,800 --> 00:47:32,240 Speaker 1: Playboy bunny is cute, so we're just gonna get these 857 00:47:32,520 --> 00:47:35,480 Speaker 1: folding tables, will buy the sandwiches, and like they are 858 00:47:35,520 --> 00:47:38,360 Speaker 1: just gonna assemble your kids. And so that is what happened, 859 00:47:38,680 --> 00:47:43,680 Speaker 1: like an assembly line of older persons at Playboy making it. 860 00:47:44,560 --> 00:47:53,080 Speaker 1: So it's like the best story, right. So so they 861 00:47:53,080 --> 00:47:55,920 Speaker 1: made she made the kit, and they actually even named 862 00:47:55,960 --> 00:47:58,760 Speaker 1: it after the guy in the crime lab. They didn't 863 00:47:58,760 --> 00:48:01,440 Speaker 1: even take the credit for themselves, which is why they 864 00:48:01,440 --> 00:48:03,880 Speaker 1: have kind of been erased out of this history and 865 00:48:03,880 --> 00:48:08,560 Speaker 1: why remembering it is really important because, um, they've never 866 00:48:08,600 --> 00:48:13,080 Speaker 1: been a part of it. So what they did to 867 00:48:13,600 --> 00:48:17,799 Speaker 1: implement the rape kit, you know, as this formal process, 868 00:48:18,520 --> 00:48:21,759 Speaker 1: was to have complete control over it. So when they 869 00:48:21,840 --> 00:48:25,239 Speaker 1: had been walking into these police departments and building up 870 00:48:25,280 --> 00:48:28,680 Speaker 1: all these contacts, they were really great at relationship building, 871 00:48:29,120 --> 00:48:31,920 Speaker 1: and so they were able to call up these high 872 00:48:31,960 --> 00:48:36,480 Speaker 1: powered politicians, people in the crime lab, members of law enforcement, 873 00:48:36,520 --> 00:48:39,440 Speaker 1: and they had this huge team of allies and they're like, 874 00:48:39,480 --> 00:48:42,680 Speaker 1: all right, we're going to roll out this massive training system. 875 00:48:42,760 --> 00:48:47,480 Speaker 1: And so these women did it for themselves. Again. Um, 876 00:48:47,560 --> 00:48:51,080 Speaker 1: they trained six thousand people over the course of two 877 00:48:51,160 --> 00:48:55,560 Speaker 1: years in Illinois on how to do rape kit, you know, 878 00:48:55,640 --> 00:48:59,279 Speaker 1: started teaching hospital personnel about this is what trauma is. 879 00:48:59,400 --> 00:49:03,480 Speaker 1: This is how, um, someone who's experienced violence, you know, 880 00:49:03,560 --> 00:49:06,520 Speaker 1: might present that might not make sense to you. Oh, 881 00:49:06,520 --> 00:49:09,919 Speaker 1: by the way, here are the proper ways to treat them, um, 882 00:49:10,000 --> 00:49:12,080 Speaker 1: which is not to take all their clothes and wrap 883 00:49:12,160 --> 00:49:14,120 Speaker 1: them in a paper gown, sent them on the Street 884 00:49:14,520 --> 00:49:18,040 Speaker 1: and then sometimes also call it the newspaper things that 885 00:49:18,080 --> 00:49:20,520 Speaker 1: would never happen. Now is very different, which is why 886 00:49:20,640 --> 00:49:24,680 Speaker 1: the victim advocacy movement is so critical. And so while 887 00:49:24,719 --> 00:49:27,800 Speaker 1: they were in Illinois, over the course of ten years, 888 00:49:27,800 --> 00:49:30,840 Speaker 1: they trained all these people and then eventually shut it 889 00:49:30,840 --> 00:49:34,240 Speaker 1: down because they thought that they were successful, that they 890 00:49:34,280 --> 00:49:36,759 Speaker 1: had done what they set out to achieve. And then 891 00:49:36,800 --> 00:49:39,160 Speaker 1: as the rape kit rolled out to these other states, 892 00:49:39,239 --> 00:49:43,800 Speaker 1: it didn't have that close oversight that Marty Goddard brought 893 00:49:44,080 --> 00:49:47,360 Speaker 1: and ensuring that people retrained properly, that they had this 894 00:49:47,480 --> 00:49:53,959 Speaker 1: iterative process of updating the forms, and so it as 895 00:49:54,000 --> 00:49:57,680 Speaker 1: the rape as it rolled out, um as it scaled up, 896 00:49:57,920 --> 00:50:02,160 Speaker 1: it lost that necessary oversight to make sure that hospitals 897 00:50:02,800 --> 00:50:06,200 Speaker 1: and law enforcement and victims are working together as a 898 00:50:06,239 --> 00:50:09,759 Speaker 1: team to make sure that these cases move forward. In 899 00:50:09,800 --> 00:50:13,879 Speaker 1: my opinion, it's not all bad news, though. There are 900 00:50:13,880 --> 00:50:16,879 Speaker 1: several steps being taken to improve the situation and things 901 00:50:16,920 --> 00:50:20,839 Speaker 1: we can do. Here's Renee again. I think what we've 902 00:50:20,880 --> 00:50:23,359 Speaker 1: seen over the past few years where people are like 903 00:50:23,640 --> 00:50:26,960 Speaker 1: clawing this issue out of the shadows, is very helpful, 904 00:50:27,360 --> 00:50:30,879 Speaker 1: Like it's not transparent and it should be more transparent. 905 00:50:31,120 --> 00:50:36,000 Speaker 1: People should know, like what Georgia or Atlanta's protocols for 906 00:50:36,080 --> 00:50:38,880 Speaker 1: how they cope with a sexual AsSalt case should be 907 00:50:39,000 --> 00:50:41,920 Speaker 1: very clear to everyone, Like we should know what the 908 00:50:42,719 --> 00:50:45,480 Speaker 1: order of operations are that something is going to happen. 909 00:50:45,520 --> 00:50:48,920 Speaker 1: You know, when this happens, your kid is here, um, 910 00:50:48,960 --> 00:50:52,439 Speaker 1: you know at this stage, then this happens. Um. Right now, 911 00:50:53,239 --> 00:50:56,440 Speaker 1: survivors don't even have basic rights to follow up on 912 00:50:56,520 --> 00:50:58,600 Speaker 1: the rape kits, you know. So that adds a whole 913 00:50:58,760 --> 00:51:03,960 Speaker 1: other layer of akeness to this process. So UM. And 914 00:51:04,120 --> 00:51:07,440 Speaker 1: much like with Marty Goddard, it's usually women who have 915 00:51:07,680 --> 00:51:11,400 Speaker 1: experienced assault who become really powerful activists in the space, 916 00:51:11,760 --> 00:51:14,960 Speaker 1: and that they are the ones who get this important policy, 917 00:51:15,080 --> 00:51:18,640 Speaker 1: either at the state level or the national level, UM 918 00:51:18,840 --> 00:51:23,160 Speaker 1: put in place. So I think we should celebrate those victories. 919 00:51:24,440 --> 00:51:27,920 Speaker 1: There was a woman she was assaulted while she was 920 00:51:28,360 --> 00:51:33,280 Speaker 1: at Cambridge. UM. She was an Asian American woman and 921 00:51:33,520 --> 00:51:37,600 Speaker 1: the statute of limitations in Massachusetts is fifteen years UM. 922 00:51:37,640 --> 00:51:39,759 Speaker 1: And she was told by law enforcement that she had 923 00:51:39,800 --> 00:51:41,759 Speaker 1: to call every six months to make sure that her 924 00:51:42,239 --> 00:51:44,799 Speaker 1: rape kit was not thrown in the trash. So this 925 00:51:45,400 --> 00:51:48,480 Speaker 1: talk about another cost having to you know, take all 926 00:51:48,480 --> 00:51:51,440 Speaker 1: this emotional time out of your life for years to 927 00:51:51,560 --> 00:51:53,920 Speaker 1: just ensure that your rape kit is not trashed. And 928 00:51:53,960 --> 00:51:56,959 Speaker 1: she ended up passing a national law on survivor's rights 929 00:51:57,200 --> 00:52:00,799 Speaker 1: and was nominated for a Nobel Peace Prize last year also, 930 00:52:00,840 --> 00:52:10,080 Speaker 1: which is great. Prevention is uh is great? UM. I 931 00:52:10,120 --> 00:52:13,640 Speaker 1: think also, you know, the legal system is never probably 932 00:52:13,640 --> 00:52:16,680 Speaker 1: going to be satisfying for a lot of social problems, 933 00:52:16,719 --> 00:52:19,520 Speaker 1: and this is definitely one of them. So I think 934 00:52:19,840 --> 00:52:21,880 Speaker 1: things that we can do is find other ways to 935 00:52:21,960 --> 00:52:25,600 Speaker 1: support survivors outside of the legal system, UM that we 936 00:52:25,640 --> 00:52:28,120 Speaker 1: can have a lot more control over and may be 937 00:52:28,239 --> 00:52:31,640 Speaker 1: way more meaningful to that person. So, you know, ensuring 938 00:52:31,760 --> 00:52:36,920 Speaker 1: that are sexual assault advocate. You know these social service 939 00:52:36,960 --> 00:52:39,600 Speaker 1: agencies who do this and do it well, you know 940 00:52:39,760 --> 00:52:43,359 Speaker 1: that we support them with our dollars and vocally, and 941 00:52:43,360 --> 00:52:45,960 Speaker 1: that we make sure that people know they're there, so 942 00:52:46,000 --> 00:52:49,040 Speaker 1: that if you are assaulted and you do want a kit, 943 00:52:49,239 --> 00:52:52,240 Speaker 1: and you do decide you want to pursue criminal justice, 944 00:52:52,360 --> 00:52:55,000 Speaker 1: that you can at least do it with someone who's 945 00:52:55,080 --> 00:52:59,120 Speaker 1: really on your side. So how about Rebecca, what does 946 00:52:59,160 --> 00:53:01,520 Speaker 1: she do to cope? I think it's taking me a 947 00:53:01,600 --> 00:53:03,640 Speaker 1: long time to not be ashamed of it, UM, and 948 00:53:03,680 --> 00:53:05,680 Speaker 1: I think that just comes with time. I think that 949 00:53:05,880 --> 00:53:08,839 Speaker 1: just space away from it. UM. You know, it's very 950 00:53:08,840 --> 00:53:11,920 Speaker 1: helpful and has always been very helpful for me. UM. 951 00:53:11,960 --> 00:53:16,040 Speaker 1: I think beyond that, sharing my story with close friends 952 00:53:16,040 --> 00:53:19,840 Speaker 1: of mine and family members has been completely invaluable because 953 00:53:19,960 --> 00:53:23,880 Speaker 1: I UM, I think and of course now with me too, 954 00:53:23,960 --> 00:53:27,000 Speaker 1: it's a little more it's out there. You know, hopefully 955 00:53:27,000 --> 00:53:30,640 Speaker 1: people more people recognize how many people that sexual assault 956 00:53:30,680 --> 00:53:33,680 Speaker 1: and rape has affected. UM. But I think prior to 957 00:53:34,520 --> 00:53:36,680 Speaker 1: you know, prior to that, it's like, oh, you know, 958 00:53:36,760 --> 00:53:38,600 Speaker 1: you are supposed to feel ashamed and you're supposed to 959 00:53:38,640 --> 00:53:42,120 Speaker 1: not tell anyone, and that feeling of being alone is 960 00:53:42,200 --> 00:53:48,160 Speaker 1: so UM. It's just it's just horrible because you feel 961 00:53:48,239 --> 00:53:50,279 Speaker 1: so ashamed because you're like, oh god, no one else 962 00:53:50,280 --> 00:53:52,560 Speaker 1: has gone through this, you know. And so for the 963 00:53:52,600 --> 00:53:55,040 Speaker 1: longest time, it was good for me because I was like, cool, 964 00:53:55,320 --> 00:53:58,080 Speaker 1: my parents know that this happened to me, and like 965 00:53:58,400 --> 00:54:01,799 Speaker 1: they love me anyway, you know. And UM, I think 966 00:54:01,920 --> 00:54:07,320 Speaker 1: just knowing that like that didn't define, um, anything beyond 967 00:54:08,600 --> 00:54:11,919 Speaker 1: beyond what happened, it was very helpful for me. I Also, 968 00:54:11,920 --> 00:54:14,160 Speaker 1: I'm a very creative person, so I'm I'm the type 969 00:54:14,200 --> 00:54:16,440 Speaker 1: that like I have to write things down, I have 970 00:54:16,520 --> 00:54:19,959 Speaker 1: to like get things out. UM. And like I wrote 971 00:54:19,960 --> 00:54:22,200 Speaker 1: a play about my experience and that was very helpful 972 00:54:22,239 --> 00:54:25,200 Speaker 1: because I was able to kind of process my trauma 973 00:54:25,280 --> 00:54:27,719 Speaker 1: that way. UM. And I co wrote it with a 974 00:54:27,840 --> 00:54:29,600 Speaker 1: very good friend of mine who also knows that that 975 00:54:29,640 --> 00:54:32,239 Speaker 1: happened to me, So that was very helpful because she 976 00:54:32,360 --> 00:54:35,440 Speaker 1: also was like, Oh, wow, this is really like messed 977 00:54:35,520 --> 00:54:38,000 Speaker 1: up that all this happened to you, you know. UM. 978 00:54:38,040 --> 00:54:40,279 Speaker 1: And I think just talking about it for me has 979 00:54:40,320 --> 00:54:43,040 Speaker 1: been very helpful. UM. Now that's that. I don't think 980 00:54:43,080 --> 00:54:46,520 Speaker 1: that's helpful for everyone and everyone's experience, UM, but for 981 00:54:46,680 --> 00:54:50,560 Speaker 1: my personal experience, just feeling like I can talk about 982 00:54:50,600 --> 00:54:55,680 Speaker 1: it is um more than anything. Uh, it just is 983 00:54:55,800 --> 00:54:58,759 Speaker 1: encouraging to me and it has helped me process the 984 00:54:58,800 --> 00:55:01,720 Speaker 1: trauma a little more. UM. I don't ever really feel 985 00:55:01,719 --> 00:55:04,759 Speaker 1: triggered by the me too thing. If anything, I feel 986 00:55:04,760 --> 00:55:07,239 Speaker 1: like it's makes me feel a little more empowered and 987 00:55:07,360 --> 00:55:09,520 Speaker 1: like I have a little more agency because it's not 988 00:55:09,600 --> 00:55:15,359 Speaker 1: just a single voice. No, it's not that about brings 989 00:55:15,400 --> 00:55:17,359 Speaker 1: us to the end of this episode, but before we go, 990 00:55:17,640 --> 00:55:22,560 Speaker 1: here are some resources from Renee. I think definitely local. 991 00:55:22,800 --> 00:55:27,719 Speaker 1: So if you go to the Georgia Network genasa dot com, 992 00:55:27,880 --> 00:55:31,480 Speaker 1: they'll list all twenty one of just twenty one, y'all 993 00:55:32,040 --> 00:55:36,400 Speaker 1: um of those registered saying programs and like everyone should 994 00:55:36,440 --> 00:55:39,879 Speaker 1: support them. They are doing some real deal work for 995 00:55:39,920 --> 00:55:44,560 Speaker 1: people huffing it on the ground completely thankless, um not 996 00:55:44,680 --> 00:55:48,400 Speaker 1: certainly not paid enough. UM. I think that's a great 997 00:55:48,480 --> 00:55:52,760 Speaker 1: place to start because the community and they are doing 998 00:55:52,800 --> 00:55:58,560 Speaker 1: the tough work. And then also, like Amanda uh Nuan's Rise, 999 00:55:58,800 --> 00:56:02,120 Speaker 1: you know, organizations like this that our nonprofit on the 1000 00:56:02,160 --> 00:56:06,279 Speaker 1: ground trying to change, like fight for victims rights through policy, 1001 00:56:06,600 --> 00:56:09,440 Speaker 1: we should also support them. So you know, like RISE 1002 00:56:09,520 --> 00:56:14,239 Speaker 1: got the national um law in place about not being 1003 00:56:14,239 --> 00:56:16,760 Speaker 1: able to destroy rape kids, but states have to also 1004 00:56:16,920 --> 00:56:20,719 Speaker 1: adopt them. So you know, we start the movement here, 1005 00:56:20,880 --> 00:56:22,759 Speaker 1: start the movement and your you know, whatever your home 1006 00:56:22,800 --> 00:56:26,960 Speaker 1: state is, and get it. Get it that way, listeners, 1007 00:56:27,000 --> 00:56:29,319 Speaker 1: If you have any resources from your state you'd like 1008 00:56:29,400 --> 00:56:31,440 Speaker 1: to share, or if you need to be connected with someone, 1009 00:56:31,480 --> 00:56:33,640 Speaker 1: please let us know. You can email us at mom 1010 00:56:33,680 --> 00:56:36,000 Speaker 1: Stuff at how stuffworks dot com or find us on 1011 00:56:36,040 --> 00:56:39,280 Speaker 1: Twitter at mom Stuff podcast and on Instagram at stuff 1012 00:56:39,280 --> 00:56:41,640 Speaker 1: I've Never told You. Thanks so much to both of 1013 00:56:41,640 --> 00:56:44,239 Speaker 1: our interviewees for agreeing to speak with us, Thanks as 1014 00:56:44,320 --> 00:56:47,720 Speaker 1: always for producer Andrew Howard, and thanks to you for listening. 1015 00:56:47,920 --> 00:56:48,399 Speaker 1: Thank you