1 00:00:01,800 --> 00:00:05,000 Speaker 1: Rip Current is a production of iHeart Podcasts. The views 2 00:00:05,000 --> 00:00:09,160 Speaker 1: and opinions expressed do not necessarily reflect thirds of the host, producers, 3 00:00:09,240 --> 00:00:12,280 Speaker 1: or parent company. Listener discretion is it fines? 4 00:00:15,040 --> 00:00:18,240 Speaker 2: This is a rip Current bonus episode. You don't have 5 00:00:18,320 --> 00:00:21,119 Speaker 2: to listen to follow the Rip Current storyline, but it 6 00:00:21,120 --> 00:00:25,960 Speaker 2: provides more information, context, and analysis to enhance the main podcast. 7 00:00:26,840 --> 00:00:31,040 Speaker 1: Enjoy. 8 00:00:32,200 --> 00:00:35,400 Speaker 3: This interview with Darryl Churney is a bonus episode because 9 00:00:35,400 --> 00:00:37,400 Speaker 3: he did not want to talk to me at first. 10 00:00:38,120 --> 00:00:40,640 Speaker 3: He felt that my perspective in the podcast would be 11 00:00:40,680 --> 00:00:44,519 Speaker 3: one he disagreed with. It's possible. He told others not 12 00:00:44,600 --> 00:00:49,840 Speaker 3: to participate in the podcast as well. Regardless, we communicated 13 00:00:49,920 --> 00:00:52,560 Speaker 3: occasionally over the months that I worked on the podcast, 14 00:00:52,760 --> 00:00:56,520 Speaker 3: and he eventually decided to participate. This was as I 15 00:00:56,600 --> 00:00:59,040 Speaker 3: was working on the script for the final episode of 16 00:00:59,040 --> 00:01:02,880 Speaker 3: the main podcast, so it was far too late to integrate, 17 00:01:03,880 --> 00:01:08,640 Speaker 3: so it's being released as a bonus episode. We talked 18 00:01:08,640 --> 00:01:12,160 Speaker 3: on tape for more than three hours. I debated about 19 00:01:12,200 --> 00:01:15,039 Speaker 3: how to use this interview, and it didn't seem right 20 00:01:15,120 --> 00:01:18,640 Speaker 3: to just provide a platform without the context and analysis 21 00:01:18,680 --> 00:01:21,400 Speaker 3: of the interviews that ended up in the main podcast. 22 00:01:22,520 --> 00:01:26,360 Speaker 3: So there are two parts to this episode. The first 23 00:01:26,400 --> 00:01:29,600 Speaker 3: is the bombing from Daryl's perspective as the other person 24 00:01:29,640 --> 00:01:33,080 Speaker 3: in the car. The second is his theory of who 25 00:01:33,080 --> 00:01:36,839 Speaker 3: put the bomb in Judy's car. I provide some commentary 26 00:01:37,000 --> 00:01:40,560 Speaker 3: on his theory. So here are parts of my interview 27 00:01:40,600 --> 00:01:43,800 Speaker 3: with Darryl from just a few weeks ago. The first 28 00:01:43,800 --> 00:01:46,640 Speaker 3: part is his retelling of what happened from the time 29 00:01:46,680 --> 00:01:49,160 Speaker 3: that he met up with Judy at Dave Kemnitzer's house 30 00:01:49,280 --> 00:01:52,520 Speaker 3: right before the bombing to the moment he was arrested. 31 00:01:55,400 --> 00:01:58,640 Speaker 1: I'm Darryl Cherney. I have been an Earth First organizer 32 00:01:58,720 --> 00:02:01,680 Speaker 1: for a more more than a couple of decades, but 33 00:02:01,960 --> 00:02:03,920 Speaker 1: I'm not as active now. I'm not on the front 34 00:02:03,960 --> 00:02:06,440 Speaker 1: lines the way I used to be. I'm a songwriter. 35 00:02:06,520 --> 00:02:09,640 Speaker 1: I've written over two thousand songs of most about the 36 00:02:09,800 --> 00:02:13,519 Speaker 1: places and events and people around me, including a lot 37 00:02:13,600 --> 00:02:16,320 Speaker 1: with the political nature since the beginning. I've been writing 38 00:02:16,360 --> 00:02:18,960 Speaker 1: since I was ten years old. That means fifty nine 39 00:02:19,000 --> 00:02:19,840 Speaker 1: years of songwriting. 40 00:02:19,960 --> 00:02:23,760 Speaker 3: Since some of this story will sound familiar, but I 41 00:02:23,760 --> 00:02:26,040 Speaker 3: thought it was interesting to hear the story from the 42 00:02:26,080 --> 00:02:28,840 Speaker 3: perspective of the guy in the passenger seat when the 43 00:02:28,840 --> 00:02:32,079 Speaker 3: bomb went off. We joined this story on the morning 44 00:02:32,080 --> 00:02:35,600 Speaker 3: of the bombing, when Darryl and Judy reassembled after staying 45 00:02:35,600 --> 00:02:38,760 Speaker 3: in different places following the Seeds of Peace meeting the 46 00:02:38,840 --> 00:02:39,400 Speaker 3: night before. 47 00:02:40,720 --> 00:02:42,920 Speaker 1: I was at Seas of Peace House in Berkeley and 48 00:02:43,000 --> 00:02:47,440 Speaker 1: she was at Dave Kemnittser's house in Oakland. I traveled there, 49 00:02:47,800 --> 00:02:51,559 Speaker 1: arriving at about nine o'clock in the morning. We made breakfast, 50 00:02:52,520 --> 00:02:56,400 Speaker 1: and the plan was to rehearse and also to write 51 00:02:56,400 --> 00:02:58,840 Speaker 1: a grant to the Grateful Dead, the Rex Foundation that 52 00:02:59,000 --> 00:03:03,480 Speaker 1: is for food money for Redwood Summer, and that we did. 53 00:03:04,280 --> 00:03:07,240 Speaker 1: But Judy and I were having a tumultuous breakup. I 54 00:03:07,240 --> 00:03:11,360 Speaker 1: think that's important, an important part of the of the story, 55 00:03:12,639 --> 00:03:14,280 Speaker 1: and one of the reasons we were meeting was to 56 00:03:14,360 --> 00:03:17,560 Speaker 1: kind of smooth things over between us. Just before we 57 00:03:17,600 --> 00:03:20,920 Speaker 1: got in the car, Judy started arguing with me that 58 00:03:21,040 --> 00:03:23,040 Speaker 1: I had too many men in my slide show. It 59 00:03:23,080 --> 00:03:25,600 Speaker 1: was a slideshow I had just created. I said, no, 60 00:03:25,600 --> 00:03:28,400 Speaker 1: there's just as many women as men, and Judy said, yeah, 61 00:03:28,400 --> 00:03:29,960 Speaker 1: but you name the men, you don't name the women. 62 00:03:30,000 --> 00:03:31,840 Speaker 1: And so there was this big fight that we had 63 00:03:32,760 --> 00:03:36,720 Speaker 1: and I said, hey, I just created a slideshow like yesterday, 64 00:03:36,840 --> 00:03:39,240 Speaker 1: I need I need. You can't just make me pull 65 00:03:39,320 --> 00:03:41,000 Speaker 1: slides out while we're driving in your car. You know 66 00:03:41,080 --> 00:03:43,760 Speaker 1: I need. I need some time. And then we played 67 00:03:43,800 --> 00:03:47,080 Speaker 1: two songs because Judy used to say, I can't hate 68 00:03:47,120 --> 00:03:52,560 Speaker 1: you when we're playing music, and so we played, and 69 00:03:52,600 --> 00:03:55,280 Speaker 1: then we were going to step into the car and 70 00:03:55,360 --> 00:03:57,840 Speaker 1: drive back to Seats of Peace House, where I had 71 00:03:57,840 --> 00:03:59,960 Speaker 1: spent the night and where I had left my band 72 00:04:01,320 --> 00:04:05,680 Speaker 1: George Shook. I had loaned my van to George so 73 00:04:05,720 --> 00:04:08,160 Speaker 1: he could go buy a part for his broken banjo, 74 00:04:08,720 --> 00:04:10,560 Speaker 1: and so I had caught a ride over with Shannon 75 00:04:10,680 --> 00:04:14,440 Speaker 1: Mahr and as I got out of Dave Kendrich's house, 76 00:04:15,320 --> 00:04:18,080 Speaker 1: I was equidistant between the two cars. And when I 77 00:04:18,160 --> 00:04:22,200 Speaker 1: had driven over to visit Judy, with Shannon's car and 78 00:04:22,279 --> 00:04:25,520 Speaker 1: Judy's cars just Shannon till I left Judy to my right, 79 00:04:26,960 --> 00:04:28,800 Speaker 1: and I was thinking to myself, well, do I want 80 00:04:28,839 --> 00:04:31,040 Speaker 1: to be rude to Shannon and not ride back with 81 00:04:31,080 --> 00:04:32,200 Speaker 1: her since she gave me a ride? 82 00:04:32,760 --> 00:04:32,880 Speaker 2: Oh? 83 00:04:32,920 --> 00:04:34,760 Speaker 1: Do I want to ride in the car with my 84 00:04:34,880 --> 00:04:40,080 Speaker 1: angry ex. But I'm a pretty spiritual person that by nature, 85 00:04:40,279 --> 00:04:42,600 Speaker 1: and so when it comes to making choices like that, 86 00:04:43,279 --> 00:04:47,240 Speaker 1: I called out to the universe, and I literally stood 87 00:04:47,360 --> 00:04:49,599 Speaker 1: right between the two cars, and I said who should 88 00:04:49,600 --> 00:04:55,359 Speaker 1: I ride with? And Judy went me And as she 89 00:04:55,480 --> 00:04:59,520 Speaker 1: later quipped, I called out to the universe, and the 90 00:04:59,600 --> 00:05:03,960 Speaker 1: universe answered. So I got into Judie's car. I helped 91 00:05:04,000 --> 00:05:06,440 Speaker 1: her load it. We were going to follow Shannon back 92 00:05:06,440 --> 00:05:08,280 Speaker 1: the seats of Peace House, and Shannon took off like 93 00:05:08,360 --> 00:05:11,640 Speaker 1: a bat out of hill. Judy was driving. I was 94 00:05:11,680 --> 00:05:14,760 Speaker 1: in the passenger seat, and Judy started following Shannon, and 95 00:05:14,800 --> 00:05:17,760 Speaker 1: we were both talking immediately about how fast Shannon was 96 00:05:17,800 --> 00:05:19,360 Speaker 1: driving and how we had to keep up with her. 97 00:05:20,760 --> 00:05:24,080 Speaker 1: And so we came down a hill to Park Boulevard 98 00:05:24,120 --> 00:05:28,120 Speaker 1: and made her right and somewhere in the mix there 99 00:05:28,240 --> 00:05:30,680 Speaker 1: as after Judy made that right hand turn and started 100 00:05:30,760 --> 00:05:36,320 Speaker 1: I think uphill, my universe was altered forever. Like there 101 00:05:36,360 --> 00:05:40,240 Speaker 1: was just a crack, and my ears were ringing, which 102 00:05:40,279 --> 00:05:44,080 Speaker 1: I later learned was the sound of my ear drums vibrating. 103 00:05:44,400 --> 00:05:47,240 Speaker 1: My ear drums had been both broken, and so they 104 00:05:47,279 --> 00:05:50,880 Speaker 1: were vibrating and making it a string sound like that, 105 00:05:52,200 --> 00:05:54,640 Speaker 1: and the car kind of like bounced to a halt. 106 00:05:55,640 --> 00:05:57,599 Speaker 1: I was not aware of all of this because my 107 00:05:57,680 --> 00:06:00,080 Speaker 1: eyes were closed and I was bent over but we were 108 00:06:00,160 --> 00:06:03,279 Speaker 1: crossing into the oncoming traffic and hit like a guard 109 00:06:03,360 --> 00:06:06,760 Speaker 1: rail for pedestrians. I had no idea what happened, but 110 00:06:06,839 --> 00:06:10,080 Speaker 1: in my mind I was trying to figure it out. 111 00:06:10,080 --> 00:06:12,320 Speaker 1: And my first thought was that I was dead, that 112 00:06:13,400 --> 00:06:15,600 Speaker 1: I had no frame of reference for what was going on. 113 00:06:16,600 --> 00:06:18,640 Speaker 1: And then I thought, well, maybe we'd been rear ended 114 00:06:18,640 --> 00:06:21,480 Speaker 1: by a logging truck, because that had happened to us 115 00:06:21,520 --> 00:06:24,560 Speaker 1: eight months earlier. And I said, no, no, we're not 116 00:06:24,560 --> 00:06:27,320 Speaker 1: in logging country. And then I thought of Brian Wilson, 117 00:06:27,360 --> 00:06:29,720 Speaker 1: who had been run over by a train at Concord 118 00:06:30,400 --> 00:06:33,919 Speaker 1: protesting the weapons the naval weapon station there. I said, no, no, 119 00:06:33,960 --> 00:06:36,279 Speaker 1: we're not near the naval weapon station. I was just 120 00:06:36,279 --> 00:06:38,560 Speaker 1: trying to rationalize things, and that's kind of how I 121 00:06:38,880 --> 00:06:42,839 Speaker 1: how I am. I wasn't so badly hurt that I 122 00:06:42,920 --> 00:06:46,599 Speaker 1: that I couldn't think. I was thinking. And then I 123 00:06:46,600 --> 00:06:49,440 Speaker 1: thought maybe we'd been shot, but then I realized there 124 00:06:49,480 --> 00:06:53,159 Speaker 1: was no blood. I wasn't bleeding. And then two kids 125 00:06:54,040 --> 00:06:56,400 Speaker 1: came out of opened high school running toward the car, 126 00:06:56,440 --> 00:06:59,360 Speaker 1: and they said, it's a bomb. It's a bomb, and 127 00:06:59,400 --> 00:07:01,440 Speaker 1: that's when I really what it was. That we'd been 128 00:07:01,480 --> 00:07:05,480 Speaker 1: bombed and I wiggled my fingers, I wiggled by toes 129 00:07:06,200 --> 00:07:09,080 Speaker 1: to make sure that I my body parts were functioning. 130 00:07:09,800 --> 00:07:13,120 Speaker 1: And then I turned to Judy and I could hear 131 00:07:13,160 --> 00:07:16,120 Speaker 1: her calling out in pain, and they just repeated to 132 00:07:16,160 --> 00:07:18,520 Speaker 1: her over and over and over again, I love you, 133 00:07:18,600 --> 00:07:20,960 Speaker 1: I love you. You're going to live, You're going to live. 134 00:07:22,080 --> 00:07:24,960 Speaker 1: Shannon Marr had stopped before us, came out of the 135 00:07:24,960 --> 00:07:27,040 Speaker 1: car and came back and asked us anything she could 136 00:07:27,080 --> 00:07:29,680 Speaker 1: do to help. I thought maybe she could open the door. 137 00:07:29,840 --> 00:07:33,720 Speaker 1: I was not not really thinking how badly Judy was mangled, 138 00:07:33,880 --> 00:07:36,840 Speaker 1: because her injuries were underneath. I could not see her injuries. 139 00:07:38,400 --> 00:07:41,640 Speaker 1: I think a uniform cop showed up shortly thereafter. I 140 00:07:41,720 --> 00:07:46,600 Speaker 1: don't a little a little bit so unclear, perhaps naturally unclear. 141 00:07:47,000 --> 00:07:49,440 Speaker 1: But then the paramedics came and they asked me to 142 00:07:49,440 --> 00:07:52,680 Speaker 1: come out of the car and said no, take Judy first. 143 00:07:53,640 --> 00:07:55,120 Speaker 1: And they were actually pretty rude to me, and I 144 00:07:55,120 --> 00:07:57,880 Speaker 1: couldn't understand why they were so rude. You know, you 145 00:07:57,920 --> 00:07:59,520 Speaker 1: got you get out, you know, you know, they were 146 00:07:59,680 --> 00:08:02,880 Speaker 1: just barking their orders at me, and I couldn't understand that. 147 00:08:03,040 --> 00:08:05,000 Speaker 1: I don't want to leave Judy, but Eventually I got 148 00:08:05,000 --> 00:08:07,960 Speaker 1: out and they put me in an ambulance. They said, no, 149 00:08:08,040 --> 00:08:10,080 Speaker 1: don't take me without Judy. You know, I want to 150 00:08:10,080 --> 00:08:14,480 Speaker 1: be with Judy. And they again were rudely told me 151 00:08:14,520 --> 00:08:16,480 Speaker 1: to shut up. They were telling me to be quiet, 152 00:08:16,480 --> 00:08:19,600 Speaker 1: and they took me to the hospital. I realized at 153 00:08:19,600 --> 00:08:24,120 Speaker 1: that exact moment that I would forever be known as 154 00:08:24,160 --> 00:08:28,400 Speaker 1: somebody who'd been bombed in a car. Now, Judy, I'm 155 00:08:28,400 --> 00:08:31,400 Speaker 1: at least speaking for myself, because my experience was very 156 00:08:31,400 --> 00:08:34,080 Speaker 1: different from Judy's. I had burns on my right arm, 157 00:08:34,360 --> 00:08:36,160 Speaker 1: I had a scratched cornea, I needed a couple of 158 00:08:36,160 --> 00:08:40,600 Speaker 1: stitches over my left eye, but I was not mortally wounded. 159 00:08:40,640 --> 00:08:43,200 Speaker 1: And in fact, after I found out it was a bomb, 160 00:08:43,840 --> 00:08:48,080 Speaker 1: I was damn determined to go to Universities California at 161 00:08:48,120 --> 00:08:50,840 Speaker 1: Santa Cruz that night, where Judy, George and I had 162 00:08:50,880 --> 00:08:53,480 Speaker 1: a gig. You know, there's an expression the show must 163 00:08:53,520 --> 00:08:55,600 Speaker 1: go on, and I was like, damn, I'm going to 164 00:08:55,600 --> 00:08:57,960 Speaker 1: go down to Santa Cruz and that place is going 165 00:08:58,000 --> 00:09:00,280 Speaker 1: to be packed with people who want to find out 166 00:09:00,280 --> 00:09:02,559 Speaker 1: what happened. Now, you might think that this is all 167 00:09:02,679 --> 00:09:05,800 Speaker 1: very a little little bit maybe too thoughtful for somebody 168 00:09:05,800 --> 00:09:08,200 Speaker 1: who had just been bombed. But if you know my personality, 169 00:09:09,160 --> 00:09:14,000 Speaker 1: I am good under pressure, I'm good under fire, and 170 00:09:14,800 --> 00:09:17,320 Speaker 1: I'm kind of detached. I'm I'm an aquarian. And they 171 00:09:17,360 --> 00:09:19,719 Speaker 1: say aquarians, you know, kind of look down in the 172 00:09:19,720 --> 00:09:22,320 Speaker 1: world or look above it and see everything you know 173 00:09:22,440 --> 00:09:24,840 Speaker 1: from a sort of a detached viewpoint. And that's exactly 174 00:09:25,200 --> 00:09:29,440 Speaker 1: how I was acting. But also empathetic is enough to 175 00:09:29,760 --> 00:09:32,160 Speaker 1: understand that Judy needed to be talked to and kept 176 00:09:32,160 --> 00:09:35,880 Speaker 1: awake and not be allowed to fall asleep, which is 177 00:09:35,880 --> 00:09:37,959 Speaker 1: what I've learned, you know what, just kind of common 178 00:09:38,000 --> 00:09:42,079 Speaker 1: knowledge about people who are injured. So that said, they 179 00:09:42,080 --> 00:09:45,200 Speaker 1: took me to the hospital and the doctor pulled some 180 00:09:45,240 --> 00:09:48,120 Speaker 1: glass out of my eye and patched it up, and 181 00:09:48,320 --> 00:09:51,760 Speaker 1: so my left eye was covered in a patch and 182 00:09:51,840 --> 00:09:54,600 Speaker 1: my right eye was kind of shut mostly, and then 183 00:09:55,320 --> 00:09:58,199 Speaker 1: all of a sudden, these two guys in suits walk in, 184 00:09:59,040 --> 00:10:00,960 Speaker 1: and I could barely see them because my right eye, 185 00:10:01,000 --> 00:10:04,040 Speaker 1: though not patched, was sort of sympathetically shut with my left. 186 00:10:04,960 --> 00:10:08,920 Speaker 1: But I could see they were wearing suits, and they said, 187 00:10:08,960 --> 00:10:11,360 Speaker 1: what's your name, And just like in Hollywood, they flapped 188 00:10:11,360 --> 00:10:15,160 Speaker 1: down their biltfolds and showed me their badges, and I 189 00:10:15,240 --> 00:10:18,360 Speaker 1: knew that anybody stupid enough to show their badges to 190 00:10:18,400 --> 00:10:22,800 Speaker 1: a blind man had to be the FBI, and of 191 00:10:22,840 --> 00:10:25,280 Speaker 1: course I was correct, and they asked me who could 192 00:10:25,280 --> 00:10:25,640 Speaker 1: have done this? 193 00:10:26,840 --> 00:10:29,800 Speaker 3: Darrel rattled off a list of possible suspects that came 194 00:10:29,840 --> 00:10:30,280 Speaker 3: to mind. 195 00:10:31,440 --> 00:10:34,199 Speaker 1: Then they said, look, we can tell that this is 196 00:10:34,240 --> 00:10:36,640 Speaker 1: your bombs, so why don't you just confess, make it 197 00:10:36,679 --> 00:10:38,320 Speaker 1: easy in all of us and get it over with. 198 00:10:39,720 --> 00:10:42,360 Speaker 1: And that's when I realized that we had just joined 199 00:10:42,400 --> 00:10:45,040 Speaker 1: the ranks of Leonard Peltier of the American Indian Movement 200 00:10:45,720 --> 00:10:48,679 Speaker 1: and Geronimo Pratt of the Black Panthers and all of 201 00:10:48,720 --> 00:10:51,680 Speaker 1: those groups from the sixties and early seventies who had 202 00:10:51,720 --> 00:10:56,000 Speaker 1: been targeted by the FBI. And I honestly didn't think 203 00:10:56,040 --> 00:10:58,800 Speaker 1: that we were worthy of those folks. You know that 204 00:10:58,920 --> 00:11:04,200 Speaker 1: these were major historical figures. But my friends Klan Dyke 205 00:11:04,240 --> 00:11:07,440 Speaker 1: and have a song called in Search of Enemies, and 206 00:11:07,480 --> 00:11:09,840 Speaker 1: apparently the FBI was running out of enemies, and so 207 00:11:09,960 --> 00:11:14,439 Speaker 1: earth First was next. I also knew from the Earth 208 00:11:14,480 --> 00:11:17,600 Speaker 1: First Journal and from my friends more personally, that the 209 00:11:17,679 --> 00:11:22,079 Speaker 1: FBI had already busted five people in Arizona and the 210 00:11:22,120 --> 00:11:26,480 Speaker 1: FBI sting operation where they had The FBI came up 211 00:11:26,480 --> 00:11:29,120 Speaker 1: with a plan to take down a power line, and 212 00:11:29,200 --> 00:11:31,120 Speaker 1: they recruited five activists. 213 00:11:32,080 --> 00:11:35,560 Speaker 3: Daryl became hungry at some point and yelled for some food. 214 00:11:36,559 --> 00:11:39,640 Speaker 1: At some point they took me to a sandwich machine 215 00:11:39,640 --> 00:11:43,200 Speaker 1: and bought me a sandwich. But I remember one of 216 00:11:43,200 --> 00:11:47,960 Speaker 1: the cops, I think it was Sergeant Channault, started screaming 217 00:11:48,000 --> 00:11:49,560 Speaker 1: at me, and I started screaming back. I said, why 218 00:11:49,559 --> 00:11:51,480 Speaker 1: don't you guys out there looking for the bomber? Why 219 00:11:51,559 --> 00:11:54,640 Speaker 1: am I in here? I was giving them as much 220 00:11:54,920 --> 00:11:59,079 Speaker 1: rough as they gave me. And then at eleven o'clock 221 00:11:59,440 --> 00:12:03,080 Speaker 1: the team came in and I can't recall specifically who 222 00:12:03,200 --> 00:12:05,960 Speaker 1: was there, but I believe it was a combination of 223 00:12:05,960 --> 00:12:10,880 Speaker 1: Oakland police and FBI. They asked me to sign a 224 00:12:10,920 --> 00:12:16,360 Speaker 1: document waiving my Miranda rights. And although I do not 225 00:12:16,440 --> 00:12:22,800 Speaker 1: recommend this to other people, I'm pretty legally savvy enough 226 00:12:22,840 --> 00:12:26,840 Speaker 1: and also confident enough even then, even after being bombed, 227 00:12:27,400 --> 00:12:31,679 Speaker 1: in my ability to you know, walk the straight and 228 00:12:31,760 --> 00:12:35,520 Speaker 1: narrow and stick with the truth and not incriminate myself. 229 00:12:35,520 --> 00:12:38,120 Speaker 1: There was nothing to incriminate myself for, at least not 230 00:12:38,160 --> 00:12:41,240 Speaker 1: about the bombing. We were Earth first years. We were 231 00:12:41,240 --> 00:12:48,720 Speaker 1: always blocking roads and protesting, but nothing like this, no felonies, 232 00:12:48,960 --> 00:12:53,880 Speaker 1: nothing violent. And so I signed a document, but I 233 00:12:53,920 --> 00:12:57,640 Speaker 1: added something to it. Instead of saying, just i'll talk 234 00:12:57,679 --> 00:12:59,439 Speaker 1: to you guys, I said, I really want to help 235 00:12:59,480 --> 00:13:03,000 Speaker 1: you guys. I'm the bomber. And in my mind there 236 00:13:03,040 --> 00:13:05,760 Speaker 1: was a bomber who was getting away and I wanted 237 00:13:05,800 --> 00:13:09,079 Speaker 1: to do everything I could to get them off my 238 00:13:09,240 --> 00:13:12,800 Speaker 1: case and on the track. So after four hours, from 239 00:13:12,880 --> 00:13:15,520 Speaker 1: eleven o'clock at night till three o'clock in the morning, 240 00:13:16,240 --> 00:13:19,200 Speaker 1: they questioned me and then they all left the room. 241 00:13:19,240 --> 00:13:21,120 Speaker 1: There was I think four different sessions. They took a 242 00:13:21,120 --> 00:13:26,120 Speaker 1: break every now and then, and then at four o'clock 243 00:13:26,120 --> 00:13:29,199 Speaker 1: in the morning they came in and said we need 244 00:13:29,240 --> 00:13:31,080 Speaker 1: to decide whether we're going to arrest you or not. 245 00:13:31,960 --> 00:13:34,920 Speaker 1: And they said we're going to arrest you, and I 246 00:13:35,040 --> 00:13:40,960 Speaker 1: just I cursed, you know, motherfucker. And then they brought 247 00:13:40,960 --> 00:13:43,000 Speaker 1: me to a holding cell and I was in there 248 00:13:43,040 --> 00:13:45,599 Speaker 1: with a bunch of other guys who'd been arrested, but 249 00:13:45,920 --> 00:13:47,200 Speaker 1: I was in a cell by myself. 250 00:13:49,080 --> 00:13:51,240 Speaker 3: In the second part of my interview with Darryl Turney, 251 00:13:51,559 --> 00:13:55,000 Speaker 3: I asked him about his theory of the bombing that 252 00:13:55,160 --> 00:14:05,840 Speaker 3: and my thoughts on this theory after the break. Darryl's 253 00:14:05,880 --> 00:14:08,720 Speaker 3: theory about who planted the bomb is essentially the timber 254 00:14:08,760 --> 00:14:13,160 Speaker 3: industry and FBI conspiracy that we looked at in episode nine, 255 00:14:13,880 --> 00:14:16,040 Speaker 3: but his version of it is a little different than 256 00:14:16,080 --> 00:14:16,600 Speaker 3: mine was. 257 00:14:18,640 --> 00:14:22,480 Speaker 1: So this is my theory, which is based on fact 258 00:14:23,600 --> 00:14:25,800 Speaker 1: and what I would propose to you to be the 259 00:14:25,800 --> 00:14:33,640 Speaker 1: most obvious of the scenarios. The FBI, in this particular case, 260 00:14:33,760 --> 00:14:37,040 Speaker 1: under the tutelage of Special Agent Frank Doyle, who's the 261 00:14:37,080 --> 00:14:40,320 Speaker 1: head of the FBI's Terrorism Division and a bomb expert, 262 00:14:40,680 --> 00:14:46,400 Speaker 1: conducts a bomb school at a police academy in Eureka, California, 263 00:14:46,440 --> 00:14:49,880 Speaker 1: at College of the Redwoods. Nothing unusual about that. Bomb 264 00:14:49,880 --> 00:14:55,360 Speaker 1: schools are taught regularly. He's friends, as he testified with 265 00:14:55,520 --> 00:15:00,240 Speaker 1: the chief of Louisiana Pacific Security, Frank Wigginton. Both the 266 00:15:00,280 --> 00:15:03,880 Speaker 1: FBI and Louisiana Pacific had been dealing with Earth First 267 00:15:03,880 --> 00:15:06,960 Speaker 1: for years. So now you have the two of the 268 00:15:07,000 --> 00:15:09,440 Speaker 1: men together. Frank Wiggington said he was at bomb school 269 00:15:09,440 --> 00:15:13,760 Speaker 1: to secure the premises which he testified to and so 270 00:15:14,600 --> 00:15:18,000 Speaker 1: there they are watching cars get blown up, with pipe bombs, 271 00:15:18,040 --> 00:15:20,200 Speaker 1: and so we also know that two of the three 272 00:15:20,280 --> 00:15:25,560 Speaker 1: cars had the bombs inside the car. And Frank Doyle 273 00:15:25,640 --> 00:15:29,720 Speaker 1: was teaching as he testified that if the bomb was 274 00:15:29,760 --> 00:15:32,600 Speaker 1: in the inside of the car, then the people driving 275 00:15:32,600 --> 00:15:35,840 Speaker 1: the car are guilty of being bombers. They're carrying the bomb. 276 00:15:35,960 --> 00:15:38,720 Speaker 1: That the bomb was in the outside, which one of 277 00:15:38,760 --> 00:15:43,840 Speaker 1: the three bombs was, then they're innocent. This makes no sense, 278 00:15:43,920 --> 00:15:47,240 Speaker 1: by the way, but nevertheless that is not a logical conclusion. 279 00:15:47,280 --> 00:15:51,120 Speaker 1: But nevertheless that's what they testified. That's what he testified. 280 00:15:51,160 --> 00:15:56,000 Speaker 1: He was teaching. Since both men have been dealing with 281 00:15:56,040 --> 00:16:00,200 Speaker 1: Earth first up to their eyeballs, the FBI and Louisiana Pacific, 282 00:16:01,160 --> 00:16:04,720 Speaker 1: I would present to you that they're talking about us 283 00:16:04,760 --> 00:16:08,400 Speaker 1: because Redwood Summer is on all the front pages. It's 284 00:16:08,440 --> 00:16:12,280 Speaker 1: on Louisiana Pacific's mind, huge time, is on the FBI's mind, 285 00:16:12,320 --> 00:16:15,800 Speaker 1: a huge time, and bomb schools in Humboldt County where 286 00:16:15,800 --> 00:16:18,360 Speaker 1: Redwood Summer is going to take place to a large extent, 287 00:16:18,400 --> 00:16:21,840 Speaker 1: along with Mendocino County. For the most part, I would 288 00:16:21,920 --> 00:16:24,560 Speaker 1: present to you it's impossible that the two men were 289 00:16:24,600 --> 00:16:27,440 Speaker 1: not talking about us. They're a yap and away as 290 00:16:27,480 --> 00:16:32,280 Speaker 1: they're blowing up cars. Now this is conjecture. Are they 291 00:16:32,320 --> 00:16:36,360 Speaker 1: hatching the plot to bomb Judy Barry at that scene? 292 00:16:36,800 --> 00:16:39,840 Speaker 1: Wouldn't it be nice if this happened to Judy? You know? 293 00:16:40,240 --> 00:16:40,360 Speaker 2: So? 294 00:16:40,400 --> 00:16:42,720 Speaker 1: Anyway, would it be a shame if this happened to Judy? 295 00:16:42,840 --> 00:16:45,760 Speaker 1: Just say it? Okay, that's conjecture. But everything else I've 296 00:16:45,800 --> 00:16:49,840 Speaker 1: said I would present to you as either fact or 297 00:16:49,920 --> 00:16:52,360 Speaker 1: ninety nine point ninety nine nine percent likely. 298 00:16:54,200 --> 00:16:57,440 Speaker 3: So Daryl says that everything in his story before is 299 00:16:57,480 --> 00:17:01,560 Speaker 3: either fact or ninety nine point nine percent likely, except 300 00:17:01,640 --> 00:17:04,840 Speaker 3: for the bit of conjecture about them plotting to kill Judy. 301 00:17:06,119 --> 00:17:08,760 Speaker 3: But that's the major point of this part of the theory, 302 00:17:09,200 --> 00:17:13,960 Speaker 3: that Doyle and Wiggington decided to kill Judy. The rest 303 00:17:14,080 --> 00:17:16,879 Speaker 3: is interesting in light of what happens later, but the 304 00:17:16,960 --> 00:17:20,800 Speaker 3: connection with the bombing is really made with this conjecture. 305 00:17:21,760 --> 00:17:22,480 Speaker 3: Back to Darryl. 306 00:17:23,880 --> 00:17:27,680 Speaker 1: We fast forward two weeks to I believe May eighth. 307 00:17:28,200 --> 00:17:32,119 Speaker 1: Bomb school was on April twenty fourth, that weekend. We 308 00:17:32,240 --> 00:17:36,000 Speaker 1: fast forward two weeks to May eighth to the Louisiana 309 00:17:36,000 --> 00:17:41,439 Speaker 1: Pacific Sawmill in Cloverdale. The sawmill we never protested. We 310 00:17:41,520 --> 00:17:44,960 Speaker 1: barely even knew existed. But the sawmill that's closest to 311 00:17:45,040 --> 00:17:48,399 Speaker 1: the Bay area, and a pipe bomb attached to a 312 00:17:48,440 --> 00:17:53,639 Speaker 1: gasoline can with a timer goes off near the little 313 00:17:53,760 --> 00:17:57,480 Speaker 1: office building little you know, manufactured home or whatever they 314 00:17:57,520 --> 00:18:01,000 Speaker 1: have where they have their their office for the sawmill. 315 00:18:02,920 --> 00:18:06,160 Speaker 1: The gas can does not ignite. The bombs are dud. 316 00:18:06,760 --> 00:18:09,440 Speaker 1: But there's a big cardboard sign that says LP screws 317 00:18:09,440 --> 00:18:14,680 Speaker 1: mill workers. It makes the newspapers. Judy and I read it. 318 00:18:14,680 --> 00:18:16,480 Speaker 1: It's a little column. It's not even a big story, 319 00:18:17,119 --> 00:18:19,679 Speaker 1: but we see it and we have a chuckle. All 320 00:18:19,720 --> 00:18:23,760 Speaker 1: the mill workers are revolting because Louisiana Pacific is moving 321 00:18:23,800 --> 00:18:27,160 Speaker 1: their mills to Mexico. Everything I'm saying is a fact, 322 00:18:27,640 --> 00:18:31,320 Speaker 1: all their mills to Mexico, or most of their mills. 323 00:18:32,040 --> 00:18:36,560 Speaker 1: To correct myself, Frank Doyle shows up, that's a fact. 324 00:18:36,840 --> 00:18:42,720 Speaker 1: To investigate this pipe bombing. For whatever reason, this bomb 325 00:18:42,800 --> 00:18:45,560 Speaker 1: is not turned over to the FBI, as is normally 326 00:18:45,640 --> 00:18:51,880 Speaker 1: required by law. All bombings in the United States are 327 00:18:52,000 --> 00:18:55,040 Speaker 1: required to be turned over to the FBI. The Sonoma 328 00:18:55,080 --> 00:18:59,359 Speaker 1: County Sheriffs, however, do come and secure the bomb, the 329 00:18:59,440 --> 00:19:02,560 Speaker 1: remnants I sometimes call it. Since the bomb was a dud, 330 00:19:02,960 --> 00:19:05,640 Speaker 1: and the gasoline can was intact, the pipe was intact. 331 00:19:05,880 --> 00:19:10,600 Speaker 1: I call it a slightly used bomb. Now we go 332 00:19:10,720 --> 00:19:13,800 Speaker 1: forward two weeks later and the pipe bomb goes off 333 00:19:13,840 --> 00:19:18,480 Speaker 1: in Judy Barry's car under her seat, and Frank Dahl 334 00:19:18,560 --> 00:19:21,600 Speaker 1: shows up proclaiming it the final exam. 335 00:19:21,640 --> 00:19:25,360 Speaker 3: To one of his students, this is a strange statement 336 00:19:25,600 --> 00:19:29,080 Speaker 3: and can be interpreted in different ways. I asked Daryl 337 00:19:29,119 --> 00:19:31,919 Speaker 3: about that, and I'll interrupt his story for a second 338 00:19:32,000 --> 00:19:36,200 Speaker 3: so you can hear that exchange. To me, it sounds 339 00:19:36,280 --> 00:19:38,760 Speaker 3: like if I had just been in a class with 340 00:19:38,880 --> 00:19:42,840 Speaker 3: somebody and ran to the teacher and there was something 341 00:19:43,400 --> 00:19:46,840 Speaker 3: that was pretty much analogous or exactly like what we 342 00:19:46,840 --> 00:19:48,520 Speaker 3: were doing in class, and he said, well, this is 343 00:19:48,520 --> 00:19:52,080 Speaker 3: your final exam. My thought would be, oh, okay, so 344 00:19:52,320 --> 00:19:56,240 Speaker 3: this investigation is like our final exam. It's like we've 345 00:19:56,280 --> 00:19:59,120 Speaker 3: got to figure out what happened in real life rather 346 00:19:59,200 --> 00:20:03,400 Speaker 3: than you know, on this training course. But my sense 347 00:20:03,480 --> 00:20:06,240 Speaker 3: is that is that you took that more to mean 348 00:20:07,040 --> 00:20:11,119 Speaker 3: it was a way of coercing this guy into agreeing. 349 00:20:11,240 --> 00:20:14,760 Speaker 3: And the idea behind the final exam is are you 350 00:20:14,800 --> 00:20:17,199 Speaker 3: going to come to the same conclusion that your instructor 351 00:20:17,400 --> 00:20:19,520 Speaker 3: is because I know more than you do, So are 352 00:20:19,520 --> 00:20:24,360 Speaker 3: you're going to find that same finding? Is that accurate? 353 00:20:25,680 --> 00:20:27,480 Speaker 1: Well, I think two things can be true at the 354 00:20:27,520 --> 00:20:31,560 Speaker 1: same time. I completely agree with what you said, and 355 00:20:31,560 --> 00:20:35,360 Speaker 1: then I completely agree with what I said that the 356 00:20:35,400 --> 00:20:41,560 Speaker 1: bomb in Judy Barry's car was exactly the same scenario 357 00:20:42,600 --> 00:20:44,760 Speaker 1: in two of the three cars that were exploded at 358 00:20:44,800 --> 00:20:47,760 Speaker 1: bomb School, the bomb was placed under the seat. And 359 00:20:47,840 --> 00:20:51,160 Speaker 1: so therefore find Doug can look at his student there 360 00:20:51,200 --> 00:20:53,320 Speaker 1: at the scene of the bombing of Judy Barry's car 361 00:20:54,080 --> 00:20:58,480 Speaker 1: and say, hey, this is the final exam. But to 362 00:20:58,600 --> 00:21:01,560 Speaker 1: my mind and to his tone of voice, he's been 363 00:21:01,640 --> 00:21:06,000 Speaker 1: slightly sarcastic. Maybe slightly sardonic is a better word for it. 364 00:21:06,440 --> 00:21:08,959 Speaker 1: You know, it is the final exam, right, you know. 365 00:21:09,320 --> 00:21:12,920 Speaker 1: I don't think he was challenging his student to investigate 366 00:21:12,960 --> 00:21:17,000 Speaker 1: it because Frank Doyle had already stated he'd already said 367 00:21:17,920 --> 00:21:19,680 Speaker 1: that the bomb was under the seat, so he wasn't 368 00:21:21,080 --> 00:21:24,359 Speaker 1: And so what the students said under oath, the student 369 00:21:24,920 --> 00:21:28,960 Speaker 1: bomb investigator from Oakland said under oath, I wasn't going 370 00:21:29,040 --> 00:21:33,880 Speaker 1: to contradict him. Frank Doyle had already stated his opinion 371 00:21:34,200 --> 00:21:37,040 Speaker 1: that the bomb was in the back in plain view, 372 00:21:37,880 --> 00:21:39,440 Speaker 1: either on the floorboard or the back seat. 373 00:21:47,880 --> 00:21:51,159 Speaker 3: Okay, back to Darryl's theory. 374 00:21:51,800 --> 00:21:53,800 Speaker 1: You can watch the police reports. There's three of them 375 00:21:54,040 --> 00:21:58,119 Speaker 1: where the open police photographer Greeby. Officer Greeby, who's a 376 00:21:58,119 --> 00:22:01,440 Speaker 1: woman by the way, takes pictures and say this is 377 00:22:01,480 --> 00:22:06,040 Speaker 1: a photograph of the bomb under the driver's seat. And 378 00:22:06,080 --> 00:22:08,640 Speaker 1: then the next officer shows up and the bomb moves 379 00:22:08,680 --> 00:22:12,400 Speaker 1: slightly to the back between the under the driver's seat 380 00:22:12,440 --> 00:22:14,679 Speaker 1: and the floorboard, and next thing you know, the bombs 381 00:22:14,720 --> 00:22:17,080 Speaker 1: in plane view. As soon as Frank Doyle shows up 382 00:22:17,600 --> 00:22:20,560 Speaker 1: and proclaims it to be so, and proclaims it on 383 00:22:20,680 --> 00:22:25,960 Speaker 1: videotape FBI videotape, which was, by the way, ruined. They 384 00:22:26,040 --> 00:22:29,119 Speaker 1: got rid of all the photo. All the video was ruined, 385 00:22:29,119 --> 00:22:32,880 Speaker 1: but the audio is there, scratchy, but you can hear 386 00:22:32,920 --> 00:22:35,800 Speaker 1: it as I show it on YouTube. That's a fact. 387 00:22:37,480 --> 00:22:40,400 Speaker 1: It's also a fact that I wasn't planning on riding 388 00:22:40,440 --> 00:22:45,000 Speaker 1: with Judy Barry that day. I was driving my own 389 00:22:45,080 --> 00:22:48,320 Speaker 1: van with my banjo player, George Shook. But that morning 390 00:22:49,000 --> 00:22:52,920 Speaker 1: sort of an unusual sort of events happened, and George 391 00:22:52,960 --> 00:22:54,760 Speaker 1: and I spent the night and sees a peace house 392 00:22:54,840 --> 00:22:58,639 Speaker 1: in Berkeley. JUNI went to Dave Kendricher's house. Highly unusual, 393 00:22:59,080 --> 00:23:01,120 Speaker 1: but there we are separate houses. And I drive over 394 00:23:01,160 --> 00:23:03,720 Speaker 1: to Judy in the morning in a friend's car while 395 00:23:03,760 --> 00:23:06,680 Speaker 1: George uses my van to go hunt down a band 396 00:23:06,760 --> 00:23:09,800 Speaker 1: apart for his banjo. And then on the way back, 397 00:23:09,800 --> 00:23:12,240 Speaker 1: I don't ride with the person who drove me. Instead, 398 00:23:12,280 --> 00:23:15,040 Speaker 1: I ride with Judy Barry, and within minutes the bomb 399 00:23:15,119 --> 00:23:17,840 Speaker 1: goes off in her car. I was not supposed to 400 00:23:17,920 --> 00:23:22,840 Speaker 1: be in the car. She was traveling alone. I was, 401 00:23:24,000 --> 00:23:30,560 Speaker 1: to use your words, collateral damage. Bombs are sloppy. If 402 00:23:31,119 --> 00:23:34,600 Speaker 1: and this is a little more conjecture, if somebody was 403 00:23:34,640 --> 00:23:39,359 Speaker 1: planning on framing me for killing Judy Barry, because if 404 00:23:39,400 --> 00:23:43,080 Speaker 1: you look at that car, it's a goddamn miracle that 405 00:23:43,160 --> 00:23:46,159 Speaker 1: she lived. It's a miracle. I was only slightly injured. 406 00:23:46,280 --> 00:23:49,480 Speaker 1: The roof is buckled, every window is blown out. There's 407 00:23:49,520 --> 00:23:53,680 Speaker 1: a giant diamond shaped hole on the steel metal floorboard. 408 00:23:53,680 --> 00:23:58,320 Speaker 1: That thing ripped a hole through car metal underneath Judy's 409 00:23:58,320 --> 00:24:04,080 Speaker 1: butt as she lived, and I only got slightly injured. 410 00:24:04,400 --> 00:24:07,399 Speaker 1: They say the hump where the transmission is between the 411 00:24:07,400 --> 00:24:09,600 Speaker 1: scenes deflected the blast of the momb away from me. 412 00:24:09,840 --> 00:24:15,040 Speaker 1: But regardless, all the windows are gone. How is that possible? 413 00:24:15,080 --> 00:24:19,720 Speaker 1: But we lived. Then you have the incredible non stop 414 00:24:19,760 --> 00:24:25,160 Speaker 1: talking victims, or as I to refer to us as targets. 415 00:24:26,119 --> 00:24:29,160 Speaker 1: We're in the media. We're talking not what they were planning. 416 00:24:30,480 --> 00:24:34,359 Speaker 1: And both of us, especially me but very much so Judy, 417 00:24:34,760 --> 00:24:38,400 Speaker 1: were media contacts for Earth First. As I said, when 418 00:24:38,440 --> 00:24:41,359 Speaker 1: I was in jail, I knew the numbers of like 419 00:24:41,520 --> 00:24:45,719 Speaker 1: ninety media outlets by heart, and I started calling them 420 00:24:45,760 --> 00:24:51,560 Speaker 1: collect from the jail phone. I knew these people. Now, 421 00:24:51,600 --> 00:24:54,560 Speaker 1: some of the newspapers took their environmental reporters off the 422 00:24:54,600 --> 00:24:59,280 Speaker 1: beat and put their cop reporters on the beat. That said, 423 00:25:00,760 --> 00:25:03,800 Speaker 1: a crazy thing happens. If there's a plot to blame 424 00:25:03,840 --> 00:25:06,280 Speaker 1: me for killing Judy. Judy doesn't die and I got 425 00:25:06,280 --> 00:25:08,800 Speaker 1: in the car. What are they going to do? 426 00:25:09,560 --> 00:25:09,720 Speaker 2: Well? 427 00:25:09,760 --> 00:25:12,520 Speaker 1: The FBI, as I've read in the books I've read, 428 00:25:12,760 --> 00:25:18,080 Speaker 1: they don't improve well. They map out all of their arrests. 429 00:25:19,600 --> 00:25:21,320 Speaker 1: Do not look a cop in the street. Oh you know, 430 00:25:21,359 --> 00:25:23,320 Speaker 1: we got a call from a store robbery or a 431 00:25:23,320 --> 00:25:25,840 Speaker 1: bank robbery or an assault, and they got to show 432 00:25:25,920 --> 00:25:28,800 Speaker 1: up blind. They don't know what's going on, and you 433 00:25:28,840 --> 00:25:31,800 Speaker 1: see cops make mistakes all the time, but the FBI 434 00:25:31,960 --> 00:25:35,840 Speaker 1: maps out everything. So when they go to arrest you know, 435 00:25:35,920 --> 00:25:40,199 Speaker 1: the mobsters or David Koresh and the people in Wicco, 436 00:25:40,560 --> 00:25:42,959 Speaker 1: you know, or they or the people on Ruby Ridge 437 00:25:43,359 --> 00:25:47,320 Speaker 1: or whatever, and something goes wrong, they don't have a 438 00:25:47,359 --> 00:25:51,680 Speaker 1: plan b. So now I got in the car ruined 439 00:25:51,680 --> 00:25:57,879 Speaker 1: their plan. So they invent the Lord's Avenger letter, which is, 440 00:25:57,920 --> 00:26:03,679 Speaker 1: as I said, the there was zetta stone of the 441 00:26:03,720 --> 00:26:08,480 Speaker 1: bombing case because we didn't know. We had no idea 442 00:26:09,080 --> 00:26:11,040 Speaker 1: that a bomber, that anybody that was going to take 443 00:26:11,080 --> 00:26:13,320 Speaker 1: credit for the bombing, and that the bomber would take 444 00:26:13,560 --> 00:26:20,080 Speaker 1: credit for two bombs. So now we understand that this 445 00:26:20,119 --> 00:26:24,280 Speaker 1: person knew the composition of both bombs accurately to the 446 00:26:24,320 --> 00:26:26,560 Speaker 1: color of the wires, the brand of the battery, the 447 00:26:26,560 --> 00:26:29,119 Speaker 1: brand of the pocket, watched the size of the bombs 448 00:26:29,160 --> 00:26:32,600 Speaker 1: and types of explosives that were used. There's no question 449 00:26:32,920 --> 00:26:36,480 Speaker 1: that whoever wrote the Lord's Avenger letter had access to 450 00:26:36,600 --> 00:26:40,800 Speaker 1: two bombs. So that is a huge clue in the 451 00:26:40,800 --> 00:26:47,080 Speaker 1: bombing case. And the Lord's Avenger says he tried to 452 00:26:47,080 --> 00:26:50,639 Speaker 1: frame Judy Barry for Cloverdale for the Cloverdale mill bombing 453 00:26:51,119 --> 00:26:54,879 Speaker 1: by saying LP Screw's millworkers. Because Judy Barry was organizing 454 00:26:55,119 --> 00:27:01,680 Speaker 1: Louisiana Pacific millworkers into the IWW union, advocating for workers. 455 00:27:01,680 --> 00:27:05,000 Speaker 1: She was representing them and Georgia Pacific workers and Pacific 456 00:27:05,119 --> 00:27:10,199 Speaker 1: lumber workers very directly, very hands on with newsletters, with 457 00:27:10,359 --> 00:27:13,880 Speaker 1: court appearances, you know, et cetera. She was the real deal. 458 00:27:13,960 --> 00:27:15,080 Speaker 1: This wasn't just talk. 459 00:27:17,040 --> 00:27:19,520 Speaker 3: We looked at Judy's labor organizing efforts in the main 460 00:27:19,600 --> 00:27:25,000 Speaker 3: podcast Will Judy's efforts were sincere and ambitious. The consensus 461 00:27:25,000 --> 00:27:28,760 Speaker 3: seemed to be that in the end it was essentially unsuccessful. 462 00:27:29,720 --> 00:27:32,640 Speaker 3: A few small victories, but nothing close to a real 463 00:27:32,720 --> 00:27:34,600 Speaker 3: labor movement in the timber industry. 464 00:27:36,040 --> 00:27:39,560 Speaker 1: And of course, the other thing that happened is that 465 00:27:40,040 --> 00:27:43,800 Speaker 1: they immediately blame us. And there I am eleven o'clock 466 00:27:43,800 --> 00:27:46,600 Speaker 1: at night talking to them till four o'clock in the morning, 467 00:27:47,600 --> 00:27:50,639 Speaker 1: with a few breaks in between, and they are not 468 00:27:50,640 --> 00:27:53,240 Speaker 1: going to go look for the barmber. They're gonna blame 469 00:27:53,320 --> 00:27:56,600 Speaker 1: us no matter what. And that's when Lieutenant Simms looks 470 00:27:56,600 --> 00:27:59,280 Speaker 1: at me and says, gee, you sure don't fit the 471 00:27:59,280 --> 00:28:03,360 Speaker 1: profile of a book and went, you know, no shit, Sherlock, 472 00:28:04,920 --> 00:28:07,639 Speaker 1: and they weren't in on it. The Open Police was 473 00:28:07,640 --> 00:28:09,359 Speaker 1: not in on it. But the Oaklan Police had a 474 00:28:09,400 --> 00:28:12,119 Speaker 1: long history of working with the FBI to bust to 475 00:28:12,200 --> 00:28:15,480 Speaker 1: black panthers, and a lot of these guys in nineteen 476 00:28:15,960 --> 00:28:20,240 Speaker 1: ninety were working back in the sixties nineteen nineties, only 477 00:28:20,640 --> 00:28:23,160 Speaker 1: you know, from say nineteen sixty nine, that's only twenty 478 00:28:23,160 --> 00:28:25,760 Speaker 1: one years. So you've got guys from the j R. 479 00:28:25,800 --> 00:28:29,040 Speaker 1: Go Hoover era or nineteen seventy two, that's only eighteen years. 480 00:28:29,359 --> 00:28:31,760 Speaker 1: You've got guys who were young back in the late 481 00:28:31,800 --> 00:28:35,199 Speaker 1: sixties and early seventies still on the force in the 482 00:28:35,280 --> 00:28:41,680 Speaker 1: FBI and the Oaklan Police. So then we learn that 483 00:28:41,720 --> 00:28:43,920 Speaker 1: one of the agents was working with an actual pipe 484 00:28:43,920 --> 00:28:48,080 Speaker 1: bomber in San Francisco who was an informant, and the 485 00:28:48,160 --> 00:28:52,600 Speaker 1: FBI's mo their modus operandi is to use informants to 486 00:28:52,680 --> 00:28:55,440 Speaker 1: do their dirty work, Whitey Bulger being one of the 487 00:28:55,440 --> 00:28:59,560 Speaker 1: most prominent examples the Boston Mafia hit man, where they 488 00:28:59,640 --> 00:29:02,960 Speaker 1: let kill people just in exchange for information on the mafia. 489 00:29:03,680 --> 00:29:05,880 Speaker 1: But there's a lot of FBI informants who have done 490 00:29:05,920 --> 00:29:08,760 Speaker 1: their dirty work for them, So that's their m and 491 00:29:08,800 --> 00:29:10,640 Speaker 1: this pipe bomber turned into an informant. 492 00:29:12,000 --> 00:29:14,920 Speaker 3: Daryl is talking about information from an episode of the 493 00:29:14,960 --> 00:29:19,880 Speaker 3: television show The FBI Files, which documents real FBI cases. 494 00:29:20,800 --> 00:29:21,120 Speaker 2: In it. 495 00:29:21,280 --> 00:29:24,840 Speaker 3: Agent Phil Stina, who was involved in the investigation of 496 00:29:24,840 --> 00:29:28,640 Speaker 3: the bombing, works with an informant who is called Leon 497 00:29:28,720 --> 00:29:32,040 Speaker 3: Perry in the show, but according to Darryl, is actually 498 00:29:32,160 --> 00:29:36,840 Speaker 3: named James Burkhardt. Burkhart apparently used pipe bombs in the 499 00:29:36,840 --> 00:29:41,000 Speaker 3: commission of bank robberies. So Burkhart flipped on his partner 500 00:29:41,280 --> 00:29:43,360 Speaker 3: and was put in witness protection. 501 00:29:44,800 --> 00:29:50,280 Speaker 1: Which seems bizarre because this wasn't a mob case. Why 502 00:29:50,280 --> 00:29:54,160 Speaker 1: would you begin in witness protection. So James Burkhart has 503 00:29:54,200 --> 00:29:56,840 Speaker 1: disappeared off the face of the earth. I have looked 504 00:29:56,840 --> 00:30:02,280 Speaker 1: for him extensively, using various methods including intelius dot com, 505 00:30:02,280 --> 00:30:05,200 Speaker 1: but other methods as well, including talking to a couple 506 00:30:05,200 --> 00:30:09,440 Speaker 1: of police officers who have access to databases, can't find them. 507 00:30:09,800 --> 00:30:15,240 Speaker 1: So that's the story that the FBI, and the FBI 508 00:30:15,240 --> 00:30:17,280 Speaker 1: has a long history of working with corporations they were 509 00:30:17,280 --> 00:30:21,720 Speaker 1: created to destroy, in part the industrial workers of the world. 510 00:30:21,840 --> 00:30:27,360 Speaker 1: The Palmer Raise busted twenty thousand union members, including lots 511 00:30:27,360 --> 00:30:30,840 Speaker 1: and lots of IWW members Industrial Workers of the World members, 512 00:30:31,760 --> 00:30:34,520 Speaker 1: So in a census is almost full circle where Judy 513 00:30:34,600 --> 00:30:40,600 Speaker 1: Barry revitalizing the IWW is now their newest target who's 514 00:30:40,640 --> 00:30:44,360 Speaker 1: also an Earth first year so it's a twofer as 515 00:30:44,360 --> 00:30:48,640 Speaker 1: far as the FBI is concerned. That to be is 516 00:30:48,680 --> 00:30:52,720 Speaker 1: the most obvious scenario that the FBI and Louisiana Pacific 517 00:30:53,640 --> 00:30:59,440 Speaker 1: worked in a conspiracy with informants to kill Judy Barry 518 00:30:59,440 --> 00:31:00,280 Speaker 1: and blame me for it. 519 00:31:02,320 --> 00:31:04,960 Speaker 3: So my read on Darryl's version of the FBI timber 520 00:31:05,000 --> 00:31:07,920 Speaker 3: industry theory is the same as it was during the 521 00:31:07,960 --> 00:31:12,480 Speaker 3: main podcast. He strings together a series of historical facts, 522 00:31:12,640 --> 00:31:17,040 Speaker 3: strange coincidences, and conjecture to reach a conclusion that seems 523 00:31:17,040 --> 00:31:21,840 Speaker 3: plausible if you accept his conjectures, but contains no critical evidence. 524 00:31:23,000 --> 00:31:26,040 Speaker 3: It relies, for instance, on the very big assumption that 525 00:31:26,120 --> 00:31:29,680 Speaker 3: Frank Doyle and Frank Wyginton decided that they had to 526 00:31:29,760 --> 00:31:34,160 Speaker 3: kill Judy Barry. There is no evidence for this. It 527 00:31:34,200 --> 00:31:38,520 Speaker 3: strings together coincidences such as FBI agent Phil Sena working 528 00:31:38,560 --> 00:31:41,360 Speaker 3: on a case with an informant who made pipe bombs 529 00:31:41,360 --> 00:31:43,719 Speaker 3: in the past, and then apparently had been put in 530 00:31:43,760 --> 00:31:48,400 Speaker 3: witness protection. It assumes that the FBI are bumblers and 531 00:31:48,480 --> 00:31:52,800 Speaker 3: not able to plan for contingencies. There is I guess 532 00:31:52,800 --> 00:31:55,840 Speaker 3: a chance that he is right, but as is a 533 00:31:55,920 --> 00:31:58,760 Speaker 3: situation with so much in this case, there is no 534 00:31:59,000 --> 00:32:03,200 Speaker 3: hard evidence to directly linking to the bombing, so it 535 00:32:03,280 --> 00:32:09,360 Speaker 3: remains unsolved. Thank you to Darryl Churney for talking with me. 536 00:32:10,120 --> 00:32:13,480 Speaker 3: I'm Toby bal This has been a bonus episode for 537 00:32:13,560 --> 00:32:15,440 Speaker 3: the second season of Rip Current