Speaker 1: Welcome to Creature Future production of I Heart Radio. I'm
Speaker 1: your host of Many Parasites, Katie Golden. I studied psychology
Speaker 1: and evolutionary biology, and today on the show Ferocious Friendships.
Speaker 1: Sometimes the scary, tough and sliny animals in the world
Speaker 1: just need a friend. From a friendly little shop of
Speaker 1: horrors to the toughest animals in the world, frolicking together,
Speaker 1: we find friendship and cooperation in the unlikeliest of places.
Speaker 1: Discover this and more as we answer the age old
Speaker 1: question can you call yourself a friend if you don't
Speaker 1: appreciate your friend's poop? Joining me today is Friend to
Speaker 1: All Animals and host of Just the Zoo of Us
Speaker 1: as well as spell Bound and Gag. Ellen Weatherford Welcome, Hi, Katie.
Speaker 1: I'm so happy to be talking to you again. It's
Speaker 1: so exciting. I love to talk to you. I've been
Speaker 1: on your podcast, Just the Zoo of Us. We've chat
Speaker 1: about animals, You've been on my podcast. There's a lot
Speaker 1: of just sort of mixing, mix and match, Pick and
Speaker 1: Mix podcast. We have our own Ferocious Animal Friendship. There
Speaker 1: you go. Yeah, we both you and I have a
Speaker 1: symbiotic relationships. Mutualism exactly. Yes, yeah, so I I am
Speaker 1: so excited. I think you're going to love the animal
Speaker 1: friendships I've picked out, and you also have one as
Speaker 1: a surprise for me, which I'm so excited about. I'm
Speaker 1: not usually the one who gets to be surprised on
Speaker 1: this podcast, so I'm very excited. Oh, you won't be
Speaker 1: the only one being surprised, because this one involves quite
Speaker 1: a surprising behavior to the one that is the recipient
Speaker 1: of it. So it's a it's very exciting. It's a
Speaker 1: surprise to a little helpless later surprise friendship. Well, this
Speaker 1: is very exciting. Um Ellen, do you like bats? I
Speaker 1: love bats so much. I saw some in real life recently.
Speaker 1: I was driving into my neighborhood and I just so
Speaker 1: happened to look up at the right exact right moment
Speaker 1: to see a whole what do you call a group
Speaker 1: of bats? Is it a swarm of bats? A flock
Speaker 1: of bats? I think it's a swarm. Whatever it was,
Speaker 1: I saw a bunch of them flying over my car
Speaker 1: and it was beautiful, joyful experience. That's so wonderful. I
Speaker 1: love bats too, um. I mean, according to the Internet,
Speaker 1: it's called a cauldred of bats. I don't think any
Speaker 1: I don't think anyone uses that. A lot of these
Speaker 1: things of like technically it's a flounce of peacocks or whatever.
Speaker 1: You know, it's like nobody actually uses that. I think
Speaker 1: that recently, these like they're called terms of venery. I
Speaker 1: learned recently that a lot of them, most of them
Speaker 1: were made up by old British hunters that wanted to
Speaker 1: flex their hunting cap. You wanted to like well actually
Speaker 1: each other basically and be very like gate keepy about
Speaker 1: like a knowledge that I can be like, oh, did
Speaker 1: you know it's actually cold? A cold? They're like the
Speaker 1: they're like the crypto bros of like, yeah, it was
Speaker 1: all just like a weird hunting culture. Yeah. I mean
Speaker 1: I think that like a a sedentary group of bats
Speaker 1: in the cave would be a colony. But I think
Speaker 1: if they're but I think if they're flying, I think
Speaker 1: you can call them a swarm. You could probably even
Speaker 1: call them a flock. I don't think anyone's going to
Speaker 1: arrest you for doing that. You get what I mean.
Speaker 1: A bunch of them, A bunch of them, a party,
Speaker 1: a bat party. Um, So I want to talk about
Speaker 1: the wooly bats and picture plants, and they form this
Speaker 1: beautiful friendship. It is your typical meat cute bat meets
Speaker 1: carnivorous plant. Carnivorous plant and bat realize they are a
Speaker 1: lot in common, and next thing you know, the bat
Speaker 1: moves in with the carnivorous plant. So first of all,
Speaker 1: let's talk a little bit about the wooly bats. Are
Speaker 1: they as cute as they sound? Yes, yes, very much,
Speaker 1: even cuter however cute you're thinking, very cute. They are
Speaker 1: found in East and Southeast Asia, and they're just a
Speaker 1: little fluffy, puffy guys. They way around a third of
Speaker 1: an ounce or less than ten grams and are basically, uh,
Speaker 1: this kind of grayish brown, flying little cotton balls with
Speaker 1: a pink little face and a couple of pointy ears.
Speaker 1: And they're this little cutiest ones ever. The proportions are
Speaker 1: so off, like the little face is so teeny tiny
Speaker 1: and the head is so big and poufy, and the
Speaker 1: ears are also huge, so like everything looks ridiculous. It's Pixar.
Speaker 1: It's a little tiny bitty face, it is flying cotton ball,
Speaker 1: a little powder puff marshmallow man. Very cute, so like,
Speaker 1: who wouldn't fall in love um and indeed carnivorous picture plants.
Speaker 1: If they were capable of love, I'm sure would love
Speaker 1: these little guys not just because they are adorable and fluffy,
Speaker 1: but also for their excrement. So you have to truly
Speaker 1: love all of your partner right exactly, even their poops.
Speaker 1: So in Him's Leanna is a tropical picture plant, which
Speaker 1: is a long green vase like plant, or if you prefer,
Speaker 1: kind of like a very tall and skinny urinal, and
Speaker 1: it is filled with digestive juices that smell kind of sweet,
Speaker 1: this attractive smell to insects like flies. But if the
Speaker 1: flies get in there and they slip down these slippery
Speaker 1: sides of the picture plant, they will fall into this
Speaker 1: pool of digestive juices. They will melt and the plant
Speaker 1: will absorb the nutrients of the liquefy insect. So you know,
Speaker 1: kind of like you know Audrey too from a Little
Speaker 1: Shop of Horse, but fewer teeth, more digestive juices. Also,
Speaker 1: I think of the piranha plant from Um Super Mario Games. Yeah,
Speaker 1: like venus fly trappy, but yeah, again they don't really
Speaker 1: have These ones don't really have teeth like the venus
Speaker 1: fly trap has those bristles. They just are like a
Speaker 1: big open mouth and in a like a jar of
Speaker 1: juice that you fall into and you dissolve, which isn't
Speaker 1: great like a starlack, a bit of a starlack situation.
Speaker 1: I think they're prettier than a starlock, to be honest.
Speaker 1: So what is this cute, adorable little bat doing in
Speaker 1: such a dangerous place as this plant starlac pit? Well,
Speaker 1: it is using it as a cozy little bed and
Speaker 1: also toilet. Uh, it's a great situation for these bats.
Speaker 1: So the wooly bat will roost in the at your
Speaker 1: plant and just hang out there. It'll sleep there, hide
Speaker 1: from predators there. You can't really like once they fit
Speaker 1: in there, you can't really see the bat, and they'll
Speaker 1: poop right where they sleep, and it doesn't bother them
Speaker 1: because their poop falls down into the plant's digestive juices.
Speaker 1: So it's like a I mean, you know, it is
Speaker 1: the dream to be able to be in bed and
Speaker 1: not have to get up and go to the bathroom
Speaker 1: at night. Have you ever used a bed pan before?
Speaker 1: I haven't. I can't imagine. It's a great experience. I
Speaker 1: have had to use them after childbirth, and it's it's
Speaker 1: not a great experience. It's not my favorite thing in
Speaker 1: the world. But that is, I'm sure because humans are
Speaker 1: not used to doing that, and it is a strange experience,
Speaker 1: you know, But if you're an animal who has done
Speaker 1: that their whole life, it's nothing to you, right exact. Actually,
Speaker 1: I mean it's also like we when we sleep, we
Speaker 1: sleep sort of horizontal, right, and so you don't really
Speaker 1: have gravity helping us out there to like get the
Speaker 1: things away from us as they're coming out of us,
Speaker 1: and your body is fighting it. It's wrong. I don't
Speaker 1: like this, yeah, But with these bats, first of all,
Speaker 1: they don't have that sense of like I shouldn't be
Speaker 1: doing this. They know they should, and they're happy enough
Speaker 1: to do it. Also, they're vertical, so they fit into
Speaker 1: the picture plant like it's this vertically hanging sleeping bag.
Speaker 1: And the picture plant loves these bats so much. They
Speaker 1: have actually co evolved with these bats to be the
Speaker 1: perfect shape for this bat to hang in, So the
Speaker 1: bat doesn't even need to grip onto the side of
Speaker 1: the picture plant. It just fits right in. If it's
Speaker 1: like a little sleeve, it's a little sleeve and it's
Speaker 1: so bespoke for this bat. The bat won't fall into
Speaker 1: the digestive juices, so like the your plant kind of
Speaker 1: curves in such a way that it narrows a little bit,
Speaker 1: so the bat fits in just like poop, you know,
Speaker 1: and then uh does not slip down into the messy
Speaker 1: bit the like toilet bowl of it, uh and just
Speaker 1: kind of like fits into that snug slot. And then
Speaker 1: when they got a poop, they just poop. The poop
Speaker 1: falls down into the bowels of this picture plant and
Speaker 1: it's no problem for the bat, and it's just like
Speaker 1: the PC. It's the perfect situation. So the legend of
Speaker 1: Amigara fault, Yes, this is my whole It was made
Speaker 1: for me. It was just slot right in it. Yeah. No,
Speaker 1: it's that that comic where that guy there, there's that
Speaker 1: cliff side with all the people shaped holes and then
Speaker 1: people are inexplicably drawn to it uh and try to
Speaker 1: go in their holes, and it's quite horrifying. It's fun
Speaker 1: I think it's funny. I think it's hilarious personally, But yeah,
Speaker 1: it's one of those sort of unnerving gingeeto comics. But yeah,
Speaker 1: this one is a lot friendlier of a version of
Speaker 1: that because the little back goes in and it's just
Speaker 1: a little sleeping bag for these guys. And it's so cute.
Speaker 1: You just peek inside one of these picture plants and
Speaker 1: you see a little cotton ball going like what are
Speaker 1: you doing? And pops like get out a little warm
Speaker 1: hugs and pooping here and sleeping, and the plant is
Speaker 1: so happy about it. The plant is like, this is
Speaker 1: great the plant. If the plant could feel emotions, it
Speaker 1: would be quite happy. So the plant, uh, this particular
Speaker 1: picture plant um. Now picture plants in general, and like
Speaker 1: carnivorous plants, they often live in areas where the soil
Speaker 1: isn't nutrient rich enough to sustain them, so they actually
Speaker 1: depend on uh insects, and the draw the insects to them.
Speaker 1: Insects fall into this trap and then dissolved. But that
Speaker 1: can be tricky, you know. Insects will develop strategies to
Speaker 1: avoid them. They can be quick, they can and not
Speaker 1: you know, fall forth so easily. And so for these
Speaker 1: picture plants, they have actually come to develop this relationship
Speaker 1: with these bats where the bat poopies nourishes the picture plant.
Speaker 1: So while the picture plant may still feed on insects
Speaker 1: on occasion, these bat poops by like becoming the toilet
Speaker 1: for the bat. The bat is fertilizing the plant, and
Speaker 1: they have it's just this, you know, i'll scratch your
Speaker 1: back and all poop in your toilet sort of situation.
Speaker 1: I'm sure that plant is just extremely thankful that it
Speaker 1: doesn't have taste receptors. Yeah, I mean, this plant is
Speaker 1: probably thankful. It's not conscious like to experience this. But yeah,
Speaker 1: I remember, like when I watched Little Shop of Horrors,
Speaker 1: Like the first time I watched it, I really wanted
Speaker 1: the uh, you know, the little sort of nebbish character
Speaker 1: and the plant to be friends, you know what I mean. Like,
Speaker 1: I was kind of sad that it turned out to
Speaker 1: be an antagonistic relationship because it's like, yeah, you know
Speaker 1: if he if he eats like mean dentists, what's wrong
Speaker 1: with that? There is always like carnivorous plants are always
Speaker 1: the enemy, right, They're always the bad guy or the
Speaker 1: obstacle or something. There's never like good guy carnivorous plants.
Speaker 1: I would say in the There's that show, Harley quinn
Speaker 1: Um And yeah, and I actually I do like that show.
Speaker 1: I helped out the one of the sound designers for
Speaker 1: the show, Jefferson Freedman reached out to me and I
Speaker 1: helped him find some bat sounds. So yeah, yeah, it's
Speaker 1: really fun. It's like I think night Wings like Emo
Speaker 1: sad Boy theme song, and we found some like really
Speaker 1: like silly sounding bats. Um. But yeah, there's the in
Speaker 1: that show. There's the carnivorous plant that I think poison
Speaker 1: Ivy's friend and he's cool. Yeah, you love to see it.
Speaker 1: I think in encanto also during song that she's like,
Speaker 1: um conjuring like sun do ya sun do yeah, which
Speaker 1: is like a pretty carnivorous but she does make a
Speaker 1: mention of them like they're they're carnivorous. Yeah, they're not
Speaker 1: gonna their humans though, No, you're fine. But it was
Speaker 1: cool to see them though. Sun Do don't get a
Speaker 1: lot of attention. Yeah, yeah, no, they're they're beautiful. They
Speaker 1: they they have the like sparkling sort of globules on
Speaker 1: them that are quite quite pretty. So yeah, I mean
Speaker 1: it is just I just love this. I love that,
Speaker 1: uh this picture plant in this bat have just come
Speaker 1: to such a nice living arrangement. Also, the in addition
Speaker 1: to sheltering the bat, giving it a comfortable little sleeping bag,
Speaker 1: to stay in. Uh, the waxy sides of the plant
Speaker 1: are very slippery, Like I mentioned, insects will just slide
Speaker 1: right down them, and it's inhospitable to insects and eggling insects.
Speaker 1: So actually the bat is also protected from parasites. So like,
Speaker 1: you know, it's just in this like really nice, healthy
Speaker 1: kind of spa environment where it can also poop, and
Speaker 1: it's just it's you know, it's great. I don't think
Speaker 1: I've ever been as comfortable anywhere as this bat is
Speaker 1: not side of this picture plant. I'm I'm happy for them,
Speaker 1: and I want that for me. I do we should
Speaker 1: all aspire to lose vertical its vertical plant sleeping bags
Speaker 1: where we can freely poop. Yeah, I think that is
Speaker 1: the future. It's the future. So I've occasionally talked about
Speaker 1: gorillas and chimpanzees on this show, and they are they're
Speaker 1: very complicated and almals, and I love them, but they're
Speaker 1: not as you know, they're not cartoon characters. You know,
Speaker 1: they're not as like funny and goofy as sometimes they're
Speaker 1: portrayed in popular media. Although I think nowadays there's more recognition,
Speaker 1: especially with like the movie Nope of how scary, chimpanzees
Speaker 1: can be um, and I think, I mean it's funny
Speaker 1: because like gorillas are pretty universally seen as like, oh,
Speaker 1: they're big, they're aggressive and scary, but I think on average,
Speaker 1: gorillas are less aggressive than chimpanzees. Of course, grillas are bigger,
Speaker 1: they are more physically capable of tearing you apart, but
Speaker 1: chimpanzees are quite good at that as well. Yeah, the gorillas,
Speaker 1: like I imagine them kind of like sitting serenely in
Speaker 1: like a like a grassy valley, like groomy each other,
Speaker 1: you know, Like I imagine more serenity when I think
Speaker 1: of gorillas. But chimpanzees are a little uh, they're they're
Speaker 1: a little more feisty. Yeah, Grillas are so Yeah, they
Speaker 1: are typically more chill. They can fight, like sometimes like
Speaker 1: if two silver silver backs, which are the dominant males,
Speaker 1: are in direct competition, they can have quite serious fights. Um.
Speaker 1: And then there are very rare cases in which they
Speaker 1: kind of like unexpectedly will just turn on an individual
Speaker 1: and beat them up. There it's not really clear why
Speaker 1: they're doing that. We don't really speak guerrilla. There's probably
Speaker 1: some beef they have, but we don't we don't know
Speaker 1: what the beef is. Um. And so chimpanzees are typically
Speaker 1: a little bit more more frequently aggressive and and sort
Speaker 1: of pugnacious. Uh, They're not, They're not always this way there.
Speaker 1: Sometimes can get along quite well, but they can do
Speaker 1: things like commit premeditated murder where they like stalk and
Speaker 1: gang up on individual that they don't like and like
Speaker 1: maul them. Uh. And so yeah, they can be quite diabolical.
Speaker 1: They can also be very loving. You know, they are
Speaker 1: complex creatures. They have like, you know, a wide capacity
Speaker 1: for different behaviors. So the fact that both of these
Speaker 1: species can be quite fearsome means it sounds like if
Speaker 1: these two met in the wild, it would be a
Speaker 1: recipe for disaster. But in fact, what you see is
Speaker 1: that they can form friendships, which is really really strange
Speaker 1: and really wonderful. So in the Congolese rainforest at the
Speaker 1: Nobali Nyunki National Park, researchers have been observing the interactions
Speaker 1: between the chimps and guerrillas in this area and have
Speaker 1: found that they seem to form these cordial friendships. So
Speaker 1: they will play together, they will eat together. Uh. When
Speaker 1: chimp spot some food like a bunch of ripe figs.
Speaker 1: They'll like hoot and holler and excitement, which alerts the
Speaker 1: gorillas who show up, and then they all kind of
Speaker 1: feed together and forge together. And the really really interesting
Speaker 1: thing is it appears that these interactions aren't just like
Speaker 1: tolerance where it's like, Okay, we won't fight, you know,
Speaker 1: we'll just tolerate each other. They seem like actual friendships
Speaker 1: because the gorillas and the chimps will pick out individuals
Speaker 1: of the other species that they know and prefer to
Speaker 1: spend time with them. So they will form a friend like, Hey,
Speaker 1: I'm a chimp, and then hey, I know that gorilla.
Speaker 1: That's Nancy, and then we like hang out and I'm like,
Speaker 1: it's Nancy. Again, I like Nancy. And then they will
Speaker 1: actually specifically gravitate towards the individuals they know and form
Speaker 1: like decades long friendships with them. I feel, as a human,
Speaker 1: I'm feeling such a sense of missing out on these
Speaker 1: inter primate like species friendships because now I feel like
Speaker 1: the guerrillas and the chimpanzees are hanging out without us,
Speaker 1: and now I'm like, we weren't invited and we don't
Speaker 1: have Like I don't have a guerrilla friend. I don't
Speaker 1: have a chimpanzee friend. Why are they all hanging out
Speaker 1: and we don't get to be part of it? Like,
Speaker 1: I feel kind of a sense of like there was
Speaker 1: a party I didn't get invited. I mean a little bit.
Speaker 1: To be fair, the humanity did kind of fart in
Speaker 1: the elevator, and by elevator I mean the planet, and
Speaker 1: by farting, I mean uh, every industrialized Yeah, exactly. So
Speaker 1: you know they probably have a reasonable distrust of humans
Speaker 1: based on the fact that we will hunt them. Uh.
Speaker 1: So I I get it. I also have that fomo though,
Speaker 1: like what are they saying about us? I feel like
Speaker 1: uh squid word longingly looking out the window as Patrick
Speaker 1: and SpongeBob are playing outside. I love that. But also,
Speaker 1: like when you I think about, like how uh like
Speaker 1: interspecies friendships with humans? I think of like we have
Speaker 1: like pets, right, like you have You might like dogs,
Speaker 1: but you like your dog more than other dogs, right,
Speaker 1: so you're like, this is my dog. I like this one.
Speaker 1: I'm going to hang out with this one. So I
Speaker 1: bet it feels similar to that. I have a deeply
Speaker 1: flawed dog, and so I can recognize that there are
Speaker 1: better behaved dogs, and yet I have still somehow been
Speaker 1: suckered into loving her above all other dogs. I'm so
Speaker 1: glad I could. But you also have this experience of
Speaker 1: having a deeply problematic dog. Yeah. Yeah, she's got I mean,
Speaker 1: she's got issues. I understand her. Um, she's not always
Speaker 1: the most polite to other dogs. And you know, we've
Speaker 1: worked on this for many years and trained her to
Speaker 1: a reasonable level of being at least somewhat you know, presentable. Uh,
Speaker 1: And yet she she's still she's still a little bit
Speaker 1: of little bit catty, a little bit judge, a little
Speaker 1: bit catty. Uh, and yet I still love her. Uh
Speaker 1: And right, It's like it's like I love this little dog,
Speaker 1: and yet she also will sometimes sparked directly into my ear,
Speaker 1: just like really suddenly and seemed to the light in
Speaker 1: in the in the grievance it causes me. Do you
Speaker 1: think that gorillas and chimpanzees both think that the other
Speaker 1: is their pet? That would be funny. It's like, because
Speaker 1: I almost wonder. It's like it's a bit of a
Speaker 1: Mickey Mouse and Pluto situation, right, because like, wait a minute,
Speaker 1: you're both animals. What are you doing? Well? And then
Speaker 1: you throw goofy into the mix, right, You're like, why
Speaker 1: is this one your friend and the other ones your pet?
Speaker 1: What's going on? Exactly? Yeah, no, no, no, this this
Speaker 1: doesn't this isn't right, this doesn't make sense. But yeah,
Speaker 1: that would be. Yeah, I mean, like maybe maybe they
Speaker 1: It's like they're sort of a mutual pet situation going
Speaker 1: on here, you know what I mean, Like when a
Speaker 1: cat and a dog hang out, and like they probably
Speaker 1: both sort of considered the other to be their companion pet.
Speaker 1: And yeah, well, I was gonna say, like, you know, typically, uh,
Speaker 1: something that we talked about a lot on on our
Speaker 1: podcast is like, don't keep wildlife as pet, especially primates. Yeah,
Speaker 1: they will carry your face off. And this happens so
Speaker 1: often with chimpanzees. People get a chimpanzee and then you know,
Speaker 1: later inevitably the thing tries to kill them later in life, um,
Speaker 1: and often succeeds in doing so. But I was gonna say, like,
Speaker 1: if you're going to have a pet chimpanzee, you have
Speaker 1: to be a gorilla exactly. That's the only way to
Speaker 1: have a pet chimpanzee is to be a gorilla. You
Speaker 1: have to be bigger than them, right, absolutely. I mean, like,
Speaker 1: first of all, you're both living in the same environment,
Speaker 1: so you don't actually have to take them away from
Speaker 1: their natural environment. Uh, and yeah, you are literally a gorilla,
Speaker 1: so you can take that. Yeah. And so that is
Speaker 1: like the only exception of the no chimpanzee as pets
Speaker 1: rule if you happen to be a gorilla, right. I
Speaker 1: mean it's funny because people will see a baby chimpanzee,
Speaker 1: it's like adorable, and they often are and they do
Speaker 1: actually bond with humans because they're highly social animals. So
Speaker 1: when you deprive them of their natural social group, they
Speaker 1: will form bonds with the humans around them. But then
Speaker 1: they hit adolescence and then they hit adulthood, and it's
Speaker 1: a human going through adolescence. And like a teenager might
Speaker 1: like cuss at you and roll their eyes at you,
Speaker 1: but a chimpanzee is gonna like tear your eyes out
Speaker 1: of your face. Yeah, will murder you, right exactly. So
Speaker 1: you know, teenagers versus like a teenage chimpanzee. Um, teenager
Speaker 1: is less dangerous I would say emotionally though they know
Speaker 1: they can. They definitely know how to kill shot you. Emotionally,
Speaker 1: teenagers they are really good at that like calling you
Speaker 1: out on like, wow, you're still parting your hair that way.
Speaker 1: It's like I didn't even think of that. I wasn't
Speaker 1: insecure about that, you said, so you actually new insecurity.
Speaker 1: I feel like teenage I don't know, like I feel
Speaker 1: like teenagers of are like the Zoomer teenagers are very
Speaker 1: nice kids. I don't know. So I work at a
Speaker 1: youth center, like with teenagers, um, like around teenagers. I
Speaker 1: don't do client facing work, but um, the teenagers that
Speaker 1: you know, I see it work are incredible. They're amazing.
Speaker 1: They're nicer than I feel like we were when we
Speaker 1: were teenagers. So you guys are, yeah, teenagers the ones
Speaker 1: that I've worked with. Of course, you know, you never
Speaker 1: generalize to all people, but the teenagers I have worked
Speaker 1: with personally are incredible, wonderful. I mean, I feel like
Speaker 1: I want to break the cycle of inter generational complaints
Speaker 1: of like teenagers these days. It's like, you guys are
Speaker 1: not vibe. I like your style and your music. It's
Speaker 1: all good. Yeah, it's great. Y'all are killing it, um
Speaker 1: not not literally not like since yeah, which is which
Speaker 1: is great. I was also thinking about, you know, like
Speaker 1: as a human I feel like I'm thinking about times
Speaker 1: when I've been at a zoo and I've seen other primates,
Speaker 1: like great apes, particularly like if you look in the
Speaker 1: eyes in the face of like a bonobo. Especially our
Speaker 1: zoo here in Jacksonville has an incredible bonobo habitat and
Speaker 1: they're gorgeous. There's a binobo there who's like fifty years old. Um,
Speaker 1: she's amazing. And when you really look at them, like
Speaker 1: you have the sense of recognition with them. They they
Speaker 1: look so similar to you, and you feel the sort
Speaker 1: of connection to them as you're like you're like game
Speaker 1: recognizes game, sort of moment where you're like I get you,
Speaker 1: I get what you're about. So I'm wondering if that's
Speaker 1: like factoring into the gorillas and the chimpanzees being like
Speaker 1: cool with each other, Like they see each other and
Speaker 1: they're like, all right, ape squad, let's do that, Like
Speaker 1: all right, we're good, We're good. It's interesting because yeah,
Speaker 1: I think that like when you have to two groups
Speaker 1: of like chimpanzees, they kind of know they might be
Speaker 1: in competition with each other's sexual competition, and that can
Speaker 1: ask like just like when two silver back gorilla as
Speaker 1: me it's like we're in competition, we're in sexual competition.
Speaker 1: But if you have a group of chimpanzees and guerrillas,
Speaker 1: as long as there's enough food around for everyone, they
Speaker 1: aren't necessarily in competition with each other. So and then
Speaker 1: they probably somewhat I mean, their body language is going
Speaker 1: to be somewhat different, but they probably somewhat recognize it.
Speaker 1: I mean, you can't have two species whose body language
Speaker 1: ends up sort of matching in some way. Like dogs
Speaker 1: and humans, we get along really well because we can
Speaker 1: actually recognize our body each other's body language. In our
Speaker 1: co evolution, we've actually come to be become better at
Speaker 1: recognizing each other's body language. I mean, some people still
Speaker 1: don't quite understand dog body language. Sometimes it's not exactly intuitive,
Speaker 1: like especially like when the puppy dog eyes, Like when
Speaker 1: a dog like looks up at you, it's called whale
Speaker 1: eyes where you can see the whites of their eyes
Speaker 1: and they're like looking. That often means that they're scared
Speaker 1: or agitated and they're they're about to nip at you. Ah.
Speaker 1: But I read also recently, like I read that, Um,
Speaker 1: I'm sorry, I can't recall where I read this, but
Speaker 1: that like over time, dogs have actually evolved facial muscles
Speaker 1: to be more like more fine tuned so that they
Speaker 1: can make the same sorts of expressions that humans look
Speaker 1: for in each other, like eyebrows, like you look at
Speaker 1: a wolf. Wolves don't have like those expressive eyebrows that have,
Speaker 1: but like dogs have like more fine tuned muscles in
Speaker 1: their eyebrows and eyes to like make more I focused
Speaker 1: facial expressions because that's what humans recognizing each other. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and we probably select for that because we like, oh, yeah,
Speaker 1: look like you have a good attitude, and we select
Speaker 1: like those puppies. Uh And like they also dogs have
Speaker 1: evolved to like focus on our faces, like the sides
Speaker 1: of our faces that typically express more so that they
Speaker 1: can more sort of accurately assess, like what what our
Speaker 1: expression is. Uh So, yeah, I mean there's definitely definitely
Speaker 1: these kinds of inter specific um or intrust specific interactions
Speaker 1: where you have two species who can kind of learn
Speaker 1: each other's body language. And for yeah, for chimpanzees and gorillas,
Speaker 1: it seems like they're capable of doing this. And as
Speaker 1: to why they form these friendships, I mean, it's not
Speaker 1: like researchers know, for a fact, they speculate there could
Speaker 1: be some benefits in terms of being able to use
Speaker 1: each other's skills and foraging, but honestly a lot of
Speaker 1: it just sounds like it's fulfilling for them, just like
Speaker 1: how we formed these relationship with dogs, and it is
Speaker 1: mutually beneficial. Dogs get food, we get the sort of
Speaker 1: work that a dog can do, like guarding or shepherding,
Speaker 1: but also we just enjoy it like it's just fun.
Speaker 1: And I think we can't all we can't too often
Speaker 1: underestimate animals capacity for just doing stuff that's fun. Oh yeah,
Speaker 1: Like you see like dolphins, you know, doing flips and
Speaker 1: stuff for fun. And you know all sorts of critters
Speaker 1: out there that just do stuff for fun, especially primates.
Speaker 1: So you know, you can't science away everything. Yeah, so
Speaker 1: they just let them have some joy. They're just frolicking together,
Speaker 1: holding hands. What do you thinking about. It's so cute,
Speaker 1: it's precious. What are you thinking about? Oh, just girla stuff.
Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, you know, I just thought about because
Speaker 1: of how they both have, you know, hands with long
Speaker 1: fingers and opposable thumbs, they could totally hold hands. They
Speaker 1: could totally hold hands. Yeah, they could lock fingers the
Speaker 1: whole deal. They could they could hold hands this big
Speaker 1: a big friendship handhole a lot. You know, it's too bad,
Speaker 1: Like I feel like friends don't hold hands as much anymore,
Speaker 1: or maybe they never think for yourself more hand holding,
Speaker 1: more platonic hand holding. I read that um in uh
Speaker 1: more like Middle Eastern, like Arabic cultures, holding hands is
Speaker 1: like a platonic Like if you're walking down the street
Speaker 1: having a conversation with somebody, especially down like a busy,
Speaker 1: crowded street, you would hold their hands just to like
Speaker 1: avoid being like you know, uh, I suppose like shoved
Speaker 1: away from each other's right. That's a more common thing.
Speaker 1: I think that's a Western thing, to deserve hand holding
Speaker 1: for romance. Yeah, I mean as kids we used to
Speaker 1: hold hands too, like thing maybe more. I mean also,
Speaker 1: I think there's some bit of like, uh weird masculinity
Speaker 1: stuff about it where it's like, ah, you know, adults
Speaker 1: slash men can't hold hands, boys can't hold hands because
Speaker 1: it's you know, there's something like because because I mean,
Speaker 1: I think like a adult women hold hands more platonically.
Speaker 1: I think an adult men do um. But then we
Speaker 1: all need to be holding hands. We need to be
Speaker 1: holding hands with chimps and gorillas. We need to be
Speaker 1: having our arms ripped off by the chimps and gorillas
Speaker 1: because we kind of deserve it to to learn a lesson.
Speaker 1: But it for that brief moment where we were holding
Speaker 1: hands in harmony, it'll have been worth it. So one,
Speaker 1: you promised me a surprise, tentaclely surprise, and I'm excited. Yes, okay,
Speaker 1: So my little surprise for you is a behavior, uh
Speaker 1: that is that has been seen in an octopus called
Speaker 1: the day octopus or the reason octopus. Yes, and the
Speaker 1: uh scientific name is Octopus ciannia, which is like, how
Speaker 1: do you get the genus name octopus? Like how did you?
Speaker 1: How did you? Like? That's like when you have like
Speaker 1: an email address that's just your name with no like
Speaker 1: numbers or anything like that in it. It's like, how
Speaker 1: did you get that? My Twitter name is just my name,
Speaker 1: Katie Goldna. Amazing. You had to be the first one
Speaker 1: in there and the octopus of Twitter. Yeah, So Octopus
Speaker 1: ciannia is uh, you know, octopuses are predatory, right, so
Speaker 1: they'll hang out in a coral reef or something like
Speaker 1: that and kind of hide and weight or chase things
Speaker 1: down through the nooks and crannies. Octopuses are very Gucci's like,
Speaker 1: like they have like a sort of non Newtonius formula, Yes,
Speaker 1: very you know. They they got no bone, soft body,
Speaker 1: extremely soft bodies, so they can squeeze into tiny little spaces. Um.
Speaker 1: But still, even though they're very good at doing that,
Speaker 1: being a predator is still a tough job as it
Speaker 1: is literally anywhere. So a lot of times predators will
Speaker 1: team up to work together in the hopes that like
Speaker 1: they can kind of make up for each other's weaknesses
Speaker 1: at a predator as a predator. So a really famous
Speaker 1: example here in the USA is these tag teams that
Speaker 1: will pop up of coyotes and badgers and we're talking
Speaker 1: to yes, we've talked about it on the show before.
Speaker 1: The teamwork of coyote and badger. Um they find little
Speaker 1: burrowing mammals like ground hogs and just like one badger
Speaker 1: digging them up on one end, coyote at the other
Speaker 1: end waiting for them to pop out. And it benefits
Speaker 1: both of them because these poor like gophers or groundhogs
Speaker 1: don't have anywhere to go. They just they have to
Speaker 1: pick one right out of the frying badger into the
Speaker 1: frying coyote and it's really cute to like there was
Speaker 1: a trail some trail camp footage of them walking together
Speaker 1: and the coyotes like jumping around really excited. Yeah, let's go,
Speaker 1: let's go, let's go, And then the badger is just
Speaker 1: trundling along like that. It's like every like Disney movie duo,
Speaker 1: you've yeah, and a lot of friendships where you have
Speaker 1: like one person who's a little more low energy and
Speaker 1: then you have like the higher energy and you know
Speaker 1: like their friends. Yes, so exactly like that, this sort
Speaker 1: of like count like completion between the relationships of the
Speaker 1: two predators who have kind of drawn a truce and
Speaker 1: have agreed to hunt together, with the understanding being that
Speaker 1: maybe you know, in that hunt you might get the
Speaker 1: ground The coyote might get the groundhog in one hunt,
Speaker 1: but the badger might get the next one. Right um,
Speaker 1: but total, in total, the both getting more groundhogs than
Speaker 1: they would alone, right yes, because you know, rather than
Speaker 1: leaving one opening for the prey to escape and survive,
Speaker 1: now they've closed it off so guaranteed that one of
Speaker 1: them is going to get it. So this happens in
Speaker 1: the ocean too. The day octopus has been known to
Speaker 1: team up with predatory fish on the reefs. Are one
Speaker 1: that they team up with a lot so um whatever
Speaker 1: they're hunting with. Basically how it works is the fish
Speaker 1: that they're hunting with hunts around and above the reef.
Speaker 1: So the predatory fish, like a grouper, is kind of
Speaker 1: like patrolling above the reef, and while it's doing that,
Speaker 1: the octopus is squeezing through the rocks and the coral
Speaker 1: um like into the nooks and crannies and kind of
Speaker 1: chasing the prey that's hidden in there. So the prey
Speaker 1: then has two options. They can try to wiggle through
Speaker 1: the nooks and crannies where the octopus is very very
Speaker 1: good at catching them, or they can try to get
Speaker 1: out of the reef where the group or it is
Speaker 1: waiting for them, um or whatever type of predatory fish.
Speaker 1: It's not exclusive to grouper, but whatever large fishes is
Speaker 1: hunting with the octopus will be hanging out above. So,
Speaker 1: you know, it's like this, It's exactly like the badger
Speaker 1: and coyote thing. You know, the prey is basically flushed
Speaker 1: out of the reef. Um. So if the prey is
Speaker 1: scared enough of the fish, they'll stay in the reef
Speaker 1: where the octopus can get it. So this is the
Speaker 1: thing about this strategy that like made a bunch of
Speaker 1: headlines pretty recently, the octopus being extremely intelligent. Like octopuses
Speaker 1: have reputations for being like unfathomably smart. Um, they have
Speaker 1: come up with some strategies to sort of actually exert
Speaker 1: more control over their hunting partners. So if they feel like,
Speaker 1: if the octopus feels like the fish is starting to
Speaker 1: take more of its fair share of the prey, like
Speaker 1: maybe the fish keeps getting the prey over and over again,
Speaker 1: the octopus hasn't really gotten very many. UM. I cannot
Speaker 1: in this any better than the researchers did. So this
Speaker 1: is just a quote directly from the paper. UM. And
Speaker 1: the paper by the way, I'm not going to read
Speaker 1: the paper title yet because it gives it away. They say, here,
Speaker 1: we report a series of events dating between the first
Speaker 1: of October, the first of November and the tenth of May.
Speaker 1: In the tenth of July nine where different Octopus Ciannia
Speaker 1: individuals engage in and I'm putting air quotes around this
Speaker 1: active displacement of partner fish during collaborative hunting. To this end,
Speaker 1: the octopus performs a swift explosive motion with one arm
Speaker 1: directed at a specific fish partner, which we refer to
Speaker 1: as punching disciplinary yeat. They that is science talk for throwing.
Speaker 1: Like they just immediately go bound and just like pop
Speaker 1: the fish. And there's it's the funniest thing I've ever
Speaker 1: heard in my life. Um And now that I've said that,
Speaker 1: I can say the paper title Octopuses punch fishes during
Speaker 1: colle through specific hunting events. Um. And that was by
Speaker 1: that was by Eduardo Sampayo at all, and that was
Speaker 1: in Ecology in December. Um. So they do also kind
Speaker 1: of suggest a few possible motivations because they're like, this
Speaker 1: octopus is over here just deck in fish like in
Speaker 1: the face, and it's a very boxing boxing gloves on
Speaker 1: each one of its tentacles. Yeah, it's like ready to go.
Speaker 1: You can catch all eight of these hands basically. And
Speaker 1: they're like, it's a weird thing that they're doing because
Speaker 1: they're not doing it to like kill the fish or
Speaker 1: like eat them. It's not a predatory thing. They're just
Speaker 1: bopping them. And so they suggest a few possible motivations.
Speaker 1: One is just moving the fish over, like the fish
Speaker 1: is getting a little too close to the prey. They're
Speaker 1: possibly just moving the fish, um, so that they can
Speaker 1: then take the prey that they feel entitled to write,
Speaker 1: it's just shoving them out of the way. Um. It's
Speaker 1: it's kind of like, um, if you are reaching for
Speaker 1: a cookie on a table and you see somebody else
Speaker 1: reach for the same cookie, yeah, Grandma's spoon. No. Yeah,
Speaker 1: but but more so so that you can be the
Speaker 1: one to get the cookie, to keep them away from
Speaker 1: it all together. So yes, um. And then but the
Speaker 1: paper also mentioned that a lot of times the octopus
Speaker 1: would punch the fish and then not take the prey.
Speaker 1: So it seemed to not be about that the octopus
Speaker 1: would just hit the fish and it wasn't about getting
Speaker 1: the prey. So they suggested to explanations that are derived
Speaker 1: from game theory, which is the study of like strategy
Speaker 1: and situational interaction, so like the ways that you can
Speaker 1: manipulate a situation to gain the best advantage. And this
Speaker 1: is another quote from the paper, because this is probably
Speaker 1: one of my favorite scientific papers I've ever read in
Speaker 1: my life. So I'm just going to pull another octopus
Speaker 1: punch punches fish. The paper octopuses punch fishes is the
Speaker 1: most like incredible three first three words of a paper title,
Speaker 1: I love it. I can't I love it so much?
Speaker 1: And so they say. So this is the two like
Speaker 1: explanations that they're offering for the fish punching behavior. They
Speaker 1: say in the first one, benefits are disregarded entirely by
Speaker 1: the octopus, and punching could be a case of spite.
Speaker 1: They say, no emotional connotation used to impose a cost
Speaker 1: on the fish, regardless of self cost, for example, after defection,
Speaker 1: which is stealing prey by a usually collaborative partner. So
Speaker 1: maybe if they're like, hey, we have a good thing going.
Speaker 1: We know each other, things are going good. We've hunted
Speaker 1: together many times, and things are going great. If that
Speaker 1: fish starts to like take a little more like and
Speaker 1: and take a little bit more of the octopus's prey,
Speaker 1: they'll punish them. It's punishment. It's like boom, like here
Speaker 1: you go. Uh. If you keep taking my prey away
Speaker 1: from me, it's going to hurt you. So it's like
Speaker 1: it's like training. They're like shurting them with like a
Speaker 1: negative reinforcements. As we know with training dogs and fish,
Speaker 1: positive reinforcements the way to go. But it is but yeah,
Speaker 1: it's interesting because it reminds me a lot of the
Speaker 1: cleaner rass um dynamics. So there are these cleaner rass,
Speaker 1: which are these little fish that will clean off the
Speaker 1: parasites from other fish, and other fish will like line
Speaker 1: up and like it's a fish car wash. But there
Speaker 1: the fish could attack the cleaner rass right and try
Speaker 1: to eat them because they're smaller fish, or the cleaner
Speaker 1: rass could try to eat the mucus coating on the fish.
Speaker 1: So fish have this protective mucus coating. It makes them
Speaker 1: kind of slimy. It protects their skin, but it's also
Speaker 1: protein rich and I guess delicious to these rasses. So
Speaker 1: they will punish each other based on who is cheating.
Speaker 1: So if a fish tries to attack a rass, the
Speaker 1: rass will kind of boycott this fish. If one of
Speaker 1: the rass tries to bite a fish that it's cleaning,
Speaker 1: fish will boycott that rass. Sometimes rasses will be punished
Speaker 1: by another rass if they catch that rass cheating, like
Speaker 1: trying to eat some mucus they'll like like sort of
Speaker 1: just like nip at the cheating fish, being like, hey,
Speaker 1: that's not how we do business around in these parts.
Speaker 1: So there's a bit. Yeah, and so I think it's
Speaker 1: for And these are just like these fish that are
Speaker 1: I mean, they're intelligent, but certainly not as intelligent as
Speaker 1: an octopus. So I can certainly see an octopus like
Speaker 1: doing this out of spite, wanting to teach this other
Speaker 1: fish a lesson of like hey man, that's not cool,
Speaker 1: and just punching them. It's their way of like enforcing
Speaker 1: a social contract they with each other. Right, It's like
Speaker 1: the octopus understands, like I need to communicate with this
Speaker 1: thing in a way that it will understand. It will
Speaker 1: understand pain, So I'm going to punch it, right, or
Speaker 1: even even just like even if the fish isn't in pain,
Speaker 1: just sort of the shock of paying, you know, punched
Speaker 1: in this way of like whoa what was that? You know?
Speaker 1: Like it Yeah, So it introduces this like dynamic of
Speaker 1: manipulation into the friendship between the octopus, because it's not
Speaker 1: like the octopus like stops hunting with the fish, right,
Speaker 1: it's just like a little a little hey, get yourself
Speaker 1: in line. Um. They even they had another explanation that
Speaker 1: they suggested for the behavior that it could also be
Speaker 1: a flex to keep the misbehaving partner in line. So
Speaker 1: basically as a reminder like hey, I could take you
Speaker 1: down any moment like you were on thin ice pal.
Speaker 1: It's basically like, don't mess with me. I'm a big octopus.
Speaker 1: I could definitely, you know, one shot you if I wanted.
Speaker 1: Here's a taste. Um, it's just a culture, it is.
Speaker 1: It sounds very like I can't pretend to have ever
Speaker 1: um been like a dude in a locker room at
Speaker 1: a tip. It's not a situation I've ever been in,
Speaker 1: but I haven't either. Based on movies that I've watched
Speaker 1: about the situation, I had to assume that there's quite
Speaker 1: a bit of um jostl ng, maybe some natured ribbing.
Speaker 1: It's like a towel flap. Yeah, And it's shaped the
Speaker 1: same way right like you know when you twist up
Speaker 1: the towel and it's got that point g end on.
Speaker 1: It just kind of looked like the tentacle. We're just
Speaker 1: we're just going towards octopus, I think, which would be nice.
Speaker 1: I think, honestly, like they seem to have a lot
Speaker 1: figured out. So although I do think that if we
Speaker 1: do continue on the octopus word trend, I hope that
Speaker 1: we don't also adapt their manipulative friendship stress because they're
Speaker 1: just like decking fish to get their way basically, um,
Speaker 1: which is like just really fascinating because not only are
Speaker 1: they cooperating and interacting with other species in like a
Speaker 1: non confrontational way, um, but they're also having to communicate
Speaker 1: with them like displeasure, like I don't want you to
Speaker 1: do that. Here's something different I want you to do,
Speaker 1: and like correcting the behavior, which I've never heard of
Speaker 1: any other animal like doing that, like correcting another other
Speaker 1: than other than what you just told me about the
Speaker 1: cleaner rasses. Um. That they're just like hey, another sec
Speaker 1: because like within the species, they like animals will often
Speaker 1: do that like dogs and will will nip in each other.
Speaker 1: You know, they're like there's a lot of sort of
Speaker 1: like hey, like animals that are in group dynamics, there's nipping, slapping,
Speaker 1: you know, kinds of behaviors to like correct other animals
Speaker 1: that they live with of their own species, but to
Speaker 1: correct another species is a lot more rare because you
Speaker 1: don't often animals don't form these relationships with other species
Speaker 1: and communicate with them. Yeah, and you have to like
Speaker 1: speak their language basically, you know, you have to understand
Speaker 1: what they're going to respond to and what they'll understand.
Speaker 1: So I think it requires a very high degree of
Speaker 1: like comprehension on the octopus's part. And also they're just mean,
Speaker 1: like like they're just so rude. I mean, I feel
Speaker 1: I feel like I on what sympathized with this octopus though.
Speaker 1: The octopus has this grand plan and then the fish
Speaker 1: is just messing it up and it's sort of like
Speaker 1: a three stooges situation. So it does get very slapstick
Speaker 1: very quick. I'm not saying I'm saying use your words,
Speaker 1: not your fists. But octopuses don't have words, so what
Speaker 1: are they going to do? I know, even if they
Speaker 1: tried to say something, the fish wouldn't be able to
Speaker 1: hear it underwater. You ever tried to talk underwater, It
Speaker 1: doesn't get across so good. And their fists are very squishy,
Speaker 1: so it's kind of like a sock um bopper. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I can't imagine that it's typical that it's very like
Speaker 1: injurious to the fish. I'm probably not because because that's
Speaker 1: not how octopuses fight, right, Like, it's just not the
Speaker 1: way that they like hunt prey or anything that they've got. Yeah,
Speaker 1: like they could if they really wanted to hurt this fish,
Speaker 1: they would grab them and then bite a chunk out
Speaker 1: of them with their hard kiteness beak. But they have
Speaker 1: ways to actually hurt the fish. Rice is very much
Speaker 1: like a very bapecific behavior that is like only for
Speaker 1: the purpose of, you know, keeping their fish friends in line. Right,
Speaker 1: And I'm not saying you should bap your friends, but
Speaker 1: if you're an octopus, I'm not going to judge you
Speaker 1: for bap and your friends. If you're much like you
Speaker 1: have a free pass to have a chimpanzee pet. If
Speaker 1: you're a gorilla, you are literally a gorilla. And I
Speaker 1: don't mean like gorilla. I'm not talking about grilla mindset
Speaker 1: where it's a grilla grindset where it's you know, you're
Speaker 1: at the gym on steroids. That's not on. You have
Speaker 1: to be the species gorilla gorilla. Yeah, exactly, gorilla gorilla.
Speaker 1: Or if you're a western lowland one, I believe that's
Speaker 1: gorilla gorilla gorilla. Oh, nice. You could be one of those.
Speaker 1: Like any amount of gorillas that you are, you get
Speaker 1: you get to have a chimpanzee as a friend. Uh, Ellen,
Speaker 1: that was a delightful story that I had not heard of.
Speaker 1: So I really appreciate that. I love octopuses. I'm so
Speaker 1: happy to hear that they're punching fish, and I love
Speaker 1: that there's a paper publish. It's like octopushes punch fish.
Speaker 1: It's such a joyful paper too, because, like you know,
Speaker 1: it is of course, you know, everything is is phrase
Speaker 1: the way you're supposed to phrase things in scientific papers.
Speaker 1: But they're just these little moments where like the personality
Speaker 1: of the papers shines through. They're definitely having fun, yet
Speaker 1: they're having the time of their lives, and like you
Speaker 1: just get these little glimmers of joy in these papers,
Speaker 1: which is so like exciting for me. They have to
Speaker 1: try to keep it professional, but you know they're just giddy.
Speaker 1: You know, they're punching the fish. Did you'll see that?
Speaker 1: It's crazy? Can you imagine being the first person to
Speaker 1: see that? And you're like, are you sure better than
Speaker 1: the moon Landing's my personal moon landing? My personal moon landing? Yes, Well,
Speaker 1: before we go. We gotta play a little game. It's
Speaker 1: called the Gifts Who's Squawking? The Mystery Animal sound game.
Speaker 1: Each I play a mystery animal sound and you the listener,
Speaker 1: and you the guest, try to guess who is squawking.
Speaker 1: The rules is it could be any animal in the world,
Speaker 1: and that's it. You gotta guess it. So last week's
Speaker 1: mystery animals sound hinted was this. It's a fashionisto with
Speaker 1: a great sense for what look is in season. So ellen,
Speaker 1: any guesses what a sound? Um, it sounds like some
Speaker 1: type of fowl, like a like a gallinaceous spurred perhaps,
Speaker 1: as I learned very recently, is the word something related
Speaker 1: to like a chicken or a turkey? Um, I'm thinking
Speaker 1: maybe a be a pheasant of some kind. Pheasant. It's
Speaker 1: very interesting. Yeah, it does. It sounds like a peacock
Speaker 1: to me, or like a pheasant, but in fact, entirely
Speaker 1: different animal is the Arctic fox. So yes, foxes sound
Speaker 1: so funny. They do not like whatever sound you think
Speaker 1: like a fox should make, like when it makes it
Speaker 1: and it's like, now that should be coming out of you,
Speaker 1: little guy. What's going on? So yeah, yeah, exactly, but
Speaker 1: it is indeed the Arctic fox. Uh. The Arctic fox
Speaker 1: is found in the Arctic uh, and it needs to
Speaker 1: blend in with the white snow so it can be
Speaker 1: an effective predator of small mammals like wolves and also
Speaker 1: avoid predation by larger animals like wolves, bears, even golden eagles. Uh. So,
Speaker 1: Arctic foxes are little guys. They're only around three to
Speaker 1: seven pounds or one point five to three kilogram you know,
Speaker 1: kind of like bluffy chihuahua's um. And they are not
Speaker 1: always white. They change their coats with the seasons. In
Speaker 1: the summer, they're brown with sort of a shorter coat
Speaker 1: to blend in with the earth. And in the wind
Speaker 1: her they grow this white, fluffy coat both for the
Speaker 1: warmth and to camouflage themselves against the white snow. And
Speaker 1: they will listen very carefully for little mammals hidden deep
Speaker 1: underneath the snow, and then once they have pinpointed where
Speaker 1: they are, they'll do that adorable little hop up and
Speaker 1: then down and just kind of like face plant right
Speaker 1: into the snow to grab their prey from above. I think, sing, yeah,
Speaker 1: that sounds like it, you know, like pronking is actual. Yeah. Yeah,
Speaker 1: They sprawling and it's quite cute, um, but for the
Speaker 1: for the little voles and for these animals, it's it's
Speaker 1: quite alarming because it's basically this lump of snow suddenly
Speaker 1: coming alive with teeth and crashing into your roof. They're
Speaker 1: so cute, they are adorable, adorable. All right, onto this
Speaker 1: week's mystery animal sound. The hint is, am I asking
Speaker 1: a lot for you to guess this sound. You know,
Speaker 1: it sounds like a grocery store cash register. That's it,
Speaker 1: the wild grocery store cash register. Ellen, do you have
Speaker 1: any guesses based purely on the clue, because I don't
Speaker 1: even know if this animal makes a sound, but if
Speaker 1: it did, I bet it would sound like that. I'm
Speaker 1: going to say you're absolutely correct, which means you're gonna
Speaker 1: have to duck quack over your answer, but people will
Speaker 1: know you were right. We'll leave all this in so
Speaker 1: you can your victory will be known to the world.
Speaker 1: I've leaped out the correct response, but yes it is.
Speaker 1: I mean, I was shocked. That was my shot of redemption.
Speaker 1: I got it wrong last time I was here. Well
Speaker 1: that's my now, now you got it right. This was
Speaker 1: like if this one was a tricky one too, because
Speaker 1: this is like the first I didn't know that these
Speaker 1: guys even made it sound like like you. And then
Speaker 1: I just came across this, it's like, well, all right, okay,
Speaker 1: you just make a little But now that I hear that,
Speaker 1: I'm like, yeah, that's what they would sound like. It
Speaker 1: makes sense. It makes sense. It makes so much sense,
Speaker 1: um and everyone. You will find out what that noises
Speaker 1: on next episode of Creature Feature. And if you think
Speaker 1: you know what it is, or if you have a question,
Speaker 1: or you want to send me pictures of your kitty
Speaker 1: cats or your doggies. Not accepting pictures of your pet
Speaker 1: chimp because you shouldn't have one, it's gonna rip your
Speaker 1: face off. Unless you're a gorilla. If you're a gorilla,
Speaker 1: like a literal gorilla, and you've somehow mastered the art
Speaker 1: of email, then yes you can email me about that.
Speaker 1: It has to be a selfie with you in the
Speaker 1: picture to that you're also a gorilla exactly and holding
Speaker 1: up the day and the time. Um so a new
Speaker 1: days newspaper, right, the gorilla daily with the newspaper, so
Speaker 1: I know. Ah, yeah, So you can send that to
Speaker 1: Creature Feature Pod at gmail dot com. Also on Twitter
Speaker 1: at Creature Feak Pod. That's f T not how is
Speaker 1: something very different on Instagram, although I need to get
Speaker 1: better at actually using Instagram, but maybe someday I will.
Speaker 1: And if you want to like lay and wait for
Speaker 1: once I become active on Instagram, it's Creature Future Pod
Speaker 1: on at Instagram. Um, and Ellen, thank you so much
Speaker 1: for joining us today. Where can the people find you?
Speaker 1: Thank you so much. I am on social media. I
Speaker 1: have um personal uh Twitter and Instagram, and we are
Speaker 1: I suppose I should direct people more so to our podcasts,
Speaker 1: uh you know, social media presences, because that's more of
Speaker 1: what I used. I'm not a particularly interesting person on
Speaker 1: my own about my podcast is. So we have you know,
Speaker 1: on Instagram where just as of us pod, Twitter, we're
Speaker 1: just just the zoo of us. We have a discord
Speaker 1: server which is really really fun. Everybody in there's really
Speaker 1: really nice. The Facebook group everybody's also super nice on
Speaker 1: their um so just the zoo of us if you
Speaker 1: are an animal lover. I also have a grand new
Speaker 1: podcast that that Katie has has recorded with me that
Speaker 1: it's not I don't know if both taking out if
Speaker 1: you um, but um, you know it's that is kind
Speaker 1: of brand new, but it's all about all the weird, gross, creepy, strange, um,
Speaker 1: all the weird stuff that you don't normally get to
Speaker 1: info dump about at your typical dinner table. But that
Speaker 1: one is not safe for work. That's not for kids, um,
Speaker 1: adults only for that one. And that one is called
Speaker 1: Spellbound and Gag. That's also on Twitter and Instagram, Facebook,
Speaker 1: so come follow along if you like animals and weird
Speaker 1: scientists stuff. I think they probably do, so that was
Speaker 1: a recommendations and Jennin because because Katie came on, Katie
Speaker 1: is going to be on an upcoming episode of Spilled
Speaker 1: Down and Gagged about Paris. It's nice. Yeah, I think
Speaker 1: you'll like it. I enjoyed myself, so I think you
Speaker 1: will too. Thank you guys so much for listening. If
Speaker 1: you're enjoying the pod and you leave a rating or review,
Speaker 1: I deeply appreciate, deeply, deeply appreciate it. Um. I read
Speaker 1: all of the reviews, by the way, and if you
Speaker 1: ask a question in the reviews, I will actually include
Speaker 1: those in my listener questions episodes, So I I appreciate
Speaker 1: that immensely and thanks so much to the space Classics
Speaker 1: for their super awesome song Exo. Aluminous Creature features a
Speaker 1: production of I Heart Radio. For more podcasts like the
Speaker 1: one you just heard, visit the I heart Radio app,
Speaker 1: Apple Podcast, or Hey guess what? Where? Have you listen
Speaker 1: to your favorite shows even if you're a little bat
Speaker 1: pooping in a picture plant and you're listening to it
Speaker 1: on like the Picture Plant Network. I that's great, that's good,
Speaker 1: I don't care. See you next Wednesday.