WEBVTT - How Sarcasm Works 0:00:01.480 --> 0:00:04.280 Welcome to Stuff you should know, a production of I 0:00:04.360 --> 0:00:14.000 Heart Radio. Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark. 0:00:14.040 --> 0:00:18.240 There's Charles w Chuck Bryant, Dave Kustin's in here with us. 0:00:19.239 --> 0:00:22.040 I just heard him laugh and snicker to himself, which 0:00:22.079 --> 0:00:25.400 is always a heartwarming sound. And it's as he mispronounced 0:00:25.400 --> 0:00:28.560 his name. No, no, I said it right. Couston thought 0:00:28.560 --> 0:00:31.360 it was Coustan. No, that's what you wanted to sound 0:00:31.480 --> 0:00:36.880 like when you're French. No, this is Couston, like Houston exactly, 0:00:37.000 --> 0:00:39.800 but with the sea instead of an h. Couston means 0:00:39.840 --> 0:00:46.239 that I'm one day closer to you. What. That's a song, right, 0:00:46.840 --> 0:00:52.720 Houston means that I'm one one step. That's a country jam. Okay, 0:00:52.720 --> 0:00:56.040 I was gonna guess Dion Warwick. She always like singing 0:00:56.080 --> 0:01:01.720 about about Susan, Yeah, about San Jose at cetera. Okay, 0:01:02.160 --> 0:01:05.800 that was a Backer act Burt Backer act song. Um, 0:01:05.959 --> 0:01:09.199 and she popularized it because she did it so well. 0:01:09.240 --> 0:01:12.039 Do you know the way to San Jose? Okay, I 0:01:12.080 --> 0:01:15.000 didn't know she's saying that. Oh yeah, I guess she 0:01:15.120 --> 0:01:21.800 popularized it with everyone but you. Okay, that was sarcastic. No, 0:01:22.000 --> 0:01:26.240 that was that was pretty straightforward direct sarcastic would have 0:01:26.319 --> 0:01:31.120 been like, um, oh, I'm sure you didn't know that. Yeah, 0:01:31.120 --> 0:01:33.120 I guess that would be sarcastic. It wouldn't have made 0:01:33.160 --> 0:01:36.679 much sense, but yes, you know what's funny, chuck in. 0:01:36.680 --> 0:01:39.720 In researching this, I kept trying to come up with 0:01:39.880 --> 0:01:44.000 um examples of sarcasm, and it's one of the hardest 0:01:44.000 --> 0:01:48.440 things in the world to do with with thought. Sarcasm 0:01:48.560 --> 0:01:53.800 is like almost always off the cuff or not very 0:01:53.840 --> 0:01:57.680 well thought out. It's which which um, I think is 0:01:57.680 --> 0:02:01.000 one reason why you know, most people will agree that 0:02:01.160 --> 0:02:04.440 somebody who is an employing sarcasm, even when they're not 0:02:04.520 --> 0:02:07.400 very good at it, is the funniest person in the world. 0:02:07.480 --> 0:02:13.560 Right then, see that's sarcasm. I I can't help myself. Yeah, 0:02:13.600 --> 0:02:17.160 this researching sarcasm really makes you take a long, hard 0:02:17.200 --> 0:02:19.600 look in the mirror, doesn't it. It really does, and 0:02:19.680 --> 0:02:23.800 at people who are big fans of Deadpool. Oh I 0:02:23.840 --> 0:02:27.920 do like Deadpool. Uh, here's my ideal with sarcasm. It 0:02:28.080 --> 0:02:32.400 is laying ones. I mean I definitely can be sarcastic. 0:02:32.440 --> 0:02:33.880 I think all of us can be, and I think 0:02:33.880 --> 0:02:39.160 it can be used for funzies but I definitely see 0:02:39.160 --> 0:02:42.720 where I can be a real a hole sometimes by 0:02:42.720 --> 0:02:46.360 being sarcastic, like to Emily. And that's like the sort 0:02:46.400 --> 0:02:49.760 of that goes back to my end. Boy, I'm sort 0:02:49.760 --> 0:02:53.440 of revealing some stuff here, but that it falls under 0:02:53.440 --> 0:02:58.040 the umbrella of of my communication issues instead of being 0:02:58.040 --> 0:03:01.960 like straightforward with something may be being sarcastic but passive 0:03:01.960 --> 0:03:04.800 aggressive and me and and sarcasm all kind of go 0:03:04.880 --> 0:03:07.160 hand in hand. I think, Yeah, so you've hit upon 0:03:07.320 --> 0:03:10.520 something that I think is not really necessarily obvious to 0:03:10.600 --> 0:03:14.680 just anybody when they are confront of a sarcasm. Is 0:03:14.720 --> 0:03:18.400 that No, sarcasm is a way to hide. It's a 0:03:18.400 --> 0:03:20.520 way to hide from emotions. It's a way to hide 0:03:20.560 --> 0:03:24.600 from direct conflict if you're not um big into conflict. 0:03:24.880 --> 0:03:28.320 It's a way to hide from criticizing somebody when you're 0:03:28.320 --> 0:03:30.480 not big into that but you really need to or 0:03:30.560 --> 0:03:33.400 you want to. And you said it it's passive aggressive. 0:03:33.919 --> 0:03:37.400 But I think we should make the distinction. And I 0:03:37.400 --> 0:03:40.480 I um came across this very late in research, but 0:03:40.560 --> 0:03:43.040 it makes a lot of sense to me that there's 0:03:43.080 --> 0:03:50.320 a distinction between sarcasm and verbal irony, and that sarcasm 0:03:50.560 --> 0:03:56.680 is at its core, insulting, mocking, harmful, and hurtful, whereas 0:03:56.800 --> 0:04:04.920 verbal verbal irony is just basically like a joke where 0:04:04.960 --> 0:04:09.320 no one gets insulted, where where maybe a situation is 0:04:09.360 --> 0:04:13.480 being made fun of, Like if it's exactly if it's 0:04:13.600 --> 0:04:17.000 raining cats and dogs, yes, that would be verbal irony, 0:04:17.160 --> 0:04:20.679 not sarcasm. Um. I saw a really great example about 0:04:20.720 --> 0:04:24.160 the distinction on I can't remember. It was like a 0:04:24.200 --> 0:04:27.760 TV and film writing website, but they basically said, in 0:04:27.800 --> 0:04:30.440 that sense, that would be verbal irony. But if you 0:04:30.520 --> 0:04:34.720 were the spouse of a meteorologist who for forecast a 0:04:34.800 --> 0:04:38.080 sunny day when they came home and it was raining 0:04:38.120 --> 0:04:42.080 cats and dogs, and you said, great weather today, that 0:04:42.120 --> 0:04:45.080 would be sarcasm because you're insulting or mocking them for 0:04:45.120 --> 0:04:48.520 getting it wrong. Right, Like, let's say you and I 0:04:48.520 --> 0:04:52.240 are neighbors. Great weather today, Josh, Oh you said it 0:04:52.240 --> 0:04:56.279 their neighbor. Hey, I can speak for myself, Oh you 0:04:56.400 --> 0:05:00.680 said it there, neighbor. Different than Hey, nice job with 0:05:00.720 --> 0:05:06.799 your front lawn, Josh, and I sank swimming under you. 0:05:06.800 --> 0:05:09.640 You're the six year old that takes everything literally exactly 0:05:11.080 --> 0:05:14.920 because I have, uh, I have noticed that. What made 0:05:14.920 --> 0:05:17.039 me think of sarcasm. You picked this article, but I 0:05:17.080 --> 0:05:19.520 was like, that's kind of perfect because having a kid 0:05:19.560 --> 0:05:22.440 will make you realize how often you're sarcastic because they 0:05:22.440 --> 0:05:26.240 don't get it, at least not yet. She's uh, just 0:05:26.320 --> 0:05:29.360 during six same days you happy birthday, Yeah, happy birthday, 0:05:29.400 --> 0:05:32.440 Ruby too, and very sweet gifts that you sent, and 0:05:32.920 --> 0:05:36.440 you guys exchange the video messages, which was adorable. But um, 0:05:36.680 --> 0:05:39.760 she's six and she still doesn't get sarcasm. And I've 0:05:39.760 --> 0:05:41.640 had to say like that was sarcasm and she's like 0:05:41.720 --> 0:05:45.480 what And I'm like, man, why just keep that purity 0:05:45.480 --> 0:05:49.920 alive of them taking things literally? Yeah, yeah, don't don't 0:05:49.960 --> 0:05:52.520 introduce sarcasm to your kid, but you can't help it. No, 0:05:52.680 --> 0:05:56.320 And that's the thing, Like, there's there's a whole school 0:05:56.320 --> 0:05:59.039 of thought that it's like to heck with sarcasm, Like 0:05:59.080 --> 0:06:02.240 we don't need it. People who use sarcasm are annoying, 0:06:02.400 --> 0:06:06.240 insecure people. Um there, it's it's not a nice thing 0:06:06.320 --> 0:06:09.080 to do or say, like there's better ways of getting 0:06:09.080 --> 0:06:12.159 your point across, and it's not even particularly funny. But 0:06:12.279 --> 0:06:14.560 the thing is is I've found that when you follow 0:06:14.640 --> 0:06:21.120 that thread, there's like something inherently problematic with it, and 0:06:21.160 --> 0:06:25.120 that there is some value to sarcasm in some some instances. 0:06:25.160 --> 0:06:27.600 It's just one of those things that should be wielded 0:06:27.960 --> 0:06:32.160 very delicately and infrequently in the right context. But if 0:06:32.160 --> 0:06:34.760 you do it like that, sure, and if you do 0:06:34.800 --> 0:06:38.480 it like that though, it can be um very useful 0:06:38.520 --> 0:06:42.240 and actually some studies have found um that it's actually 0:06:42.240 --> 0:06:45.919 beneficial brain wise too. Although researching all of the sarcasm 0:06:46.040 --> 0:06:50.520 stuff has just reiterated my um my belief that social 0:06:50.520 --> 0:06:53.880 psychology as a field should be completely dissolved and they 0:06:53.880 --> 0:06:57.520 should just start from scratch again because it is almost 0:06:57.640 --> 0:07:03.719 exclusively useless. It is so bad. We should have a 0:07:04.000 --> 0:07:06.000 every time you go off on social psychology, we should 0:07:06.000 --> 0:07:09.000 have a sound effect. We would just start employing again, 0:07:10.480 --> 0:07:13.200 just get that part. We should hire a barbershop quartet, 0:07:13.240 --> 0:07:15.280 just full time to stand behind us. Made up was 0:07:15.600 --> 0:07:20.280 exclusively as social psychologists exactly who can also sing the 0:07:20.360 --> 0:07:27.280 sweet sweet tunes? So Webster's defines, Um, that's a great start, 0:07:27.360 --> 0:07:30.160 chuck Uh. It's actually the Oxford English Dictionary if you 0:07:30.200 --> 0:07:33.640 want to go back to the original definition, which I 0:07:33.640 --> 0:07:35.960 think it is useful. We don't love to read definitions, 0:07:35.960 --> 0:07:39.480 but its first definition was a sharp, bitter or cutting 0:07:39.480 --> 0:07:43.840 expression or remark, a bitter jibe or taunt. And the 0:07:43.880 --> 0:07:48.200 word itself even derives from ancient Greek from to tear flesh, 0:07:48.240 --> 0:07:51.760 gnash the teeth, and speak bitterly. So it seems like 0:07:51.840 --> 0:07:56.200 from the beginning sarcasm was not like a nice and 0:07:56.200 --> 0:07:59.000 and super funny thing for people. Know, And apparently the 0:07:59.040 --> 0:08:04.280 ancient Greeks um had their own famous sarcast and Socrates 0:08:04.520 --> 0:08:07.800 who was um known for what's now known as sark 0:08:08.120 --> 0:08:12.720 Socratic irony, which is terrible where basically you play dumb 0:08:13.560 --> 0:08:16.200 uh when you're talking to somebody in order to kind 0:08:16.200 --> 0:08:18.560 of get their true opinion out about something, and then 0:08:18.640 --> 0:08:22.120 you destroy their opinion and you suddenly become intelligent and 0:08:22.160 --> 0:08:24.840 destroy their opinion. It's a terrible, terrible thing to do. 0:08:25.160 --> 0:08:28.160 But apparently Socrates was well known for that kind of thing, 0:08:28.240 --> 0:08:30.920 so much so that they named it after him. That's right. 0:08:31.040 --> 0:08:35.079 He it's called the how how about them? Apple's approach? Right? 0:08:36.679 --> 0:08:40.600 Um Interpreting sarcasm, That's that's where it gets tricky because 0:08:41.760 --> 0:08:44.160 and that's why a six year old and we'll get 0:08:44.160 --> 0:08:46.800 two kids more because and some people say that by 0:08:46.840 --> 0:08:51.360 that age they can detect sarcasm. But we'll get to that. Um. 0:08:51.400 --> 0:08:54.000 I'm glad that that my daughter can't yet because that 0:08:54.040 --> 0:08:57.640 means that she's not a jerk yet. But as far 0:08:57.679 --> 0:09:00.880 as picking up on these clues, you, the words themselves 0:09:00.880 --> 0:09:03.720 you can't rely on. So what you're looking for? Other 0:09:03.800 --> 0:09:08.720 kinds of clues uh that are myriad um. One of 0:09:08.720 --> 0:09:12.360 which is obviously the tone of voice. Uh. Let's say 0:09:12.400 --> 0:09:15.200 you can't even see the person. If you see someone 0:09:15.360 --> 0:09:19.959 say great weather today, like you, you know without even 0:09:20.000 --> 0:09:22.760 looking out the window, that that probably means it's it's 0:09:22.880 --> 0:09:25.040 raining or something. Yeah, I don't even need to look. 0:09:25.040 --> 0:09:28.880 They just saved you the effort, right. And some people 0:09:28.920 --> 0:09:32.200 say that that's a nasal tone. Uh. This kind of 0:09:32.240 --> 0:09:34.640 seemed a little hinky to me, But some researchers have 0:09:34.760 --> 0:09:38.680 said that there's a connection between that, um, sarcasm and 0:09:38.760 --> 0:09:41.800 extreme disgust, and that's why it comes out nasally, like 0:09:41.800 --> 0:09:44.960 you're trying to expel something through like your mouth and 0:09:45.000 --> 0:09:49.520 your nose. Great weather, like your nose wrinkles. I guess 0:09:49.559 --> 0:09:52.520 a little bit I can see maybe. Uh. And then 0:09:52.520 --> 0:09:55.280 of course their physical cues like a a good eye 0:09:55.360 --> 0:09:57.840 roll or at least like looking up when you say 0:09:57.880 --> 0:09:59.880 something is a big, big clue. Yeah, that one in 0:10:00.040 --> 0:10:03.640 particulars because your brain is going haywire because you're saying 0:10:03.679 --> 0:10:07.559 the opposite of what you mean. And researchers have concluded 0:10:07.600 --> 0:10:11.080 that that looking up, which kind of looks like an 0:10:11.120 --> 0:10:17.040 eye roll, is actually processing difficulty. Your brain was like, 0:10:17.080 --> 0:10:18.920 I don't know what, dude, You just make the eyes 0:10:19.000 --> 0:10:21.000 look up while I try to figure out what I'm 0:10:21.040 --> 0:10:25.160 doing here. That that's that. Yeah, there's social psychology is 0:10:25.200 --> 0:10:31.080 big contribution. Um. As far as the intonation, uh, there's 0:10:31.120 --> 0:10:36.160 some researchers that have called that inverse pitch obtrusion, which, uh, 0:10:36.360 --> 0:10:39.160 great weather is if it was really great weather, you 0:10:39.160 --> 0:10:42.040 would say great weather today. Huh. And if not, you'd 0:10:42.040 --> 0:10:44.720 say great weather. So your your tone and your intonation 0:10:44.760 --> 0:10:47.719 goes down as a clear signal of sarcasm. Yeah, which 0:10:47.760 --> 0:10:53.800 supposedly intonation or pitch um inverse pitch obtrusion is um 0:10:54.000 --> 0:10:57.360 pretty universal as far as languages go. Are different cultures 0:10:58.120 --> 0:11:01.360 because other cultures are sarcastic just American, No, And there's 0:11:01.360 --> 0:11:05.240 a big there's a big debate online about whether it's 0:11:05.240 --> 0:11:08.520 a universal whether sarcasm is universal, and some people are 0:11:08.559 --> 0:11:11.200 saying like, yes, it's everywhere, like even if a culture 0:11:11.200 --> 0:11:13.679 has a taboo against it, which some could, although I 0:11:13.679 --> 0:11:17.280 couldn't find which ones. Um, although I think China has 0:11:17.320 --> 0:11:23.840 widely pointed to is a not a very high sarcasm culture. Um. 0:11:24.000 --> 0:11:25.960 But that if you have if your culture has a 0:11:25.960 --> 0:11:28.800 taboo against sarcasm, you have to be aware of sarcasm 0:11:28.880 --> 0:11:31.480 to have a taboo against it. So it's still in 0:11:31.520 --> 0:11:35.040 that sense universal, even if it's not universally used or 0:11:35.200 --> 0:11:39.360 accepted by each culture. Yeah, for sure, I could see 0:11:40.120 --> 0:11:43.160 Japan is not being super sarcastic. So I read an 0:11:43.240 --> 0:11:48.400 article about Japan. It was like a business writer's um experience, 0:11:48.520 --> 0:11:52.560 like a British expat working in Japan, and he said 0:11:52.559 --> 0:11:54.920 he used sarcasm and like he didn't really get much 0:11:55.040 --> 0:11:58.080 laugh much of a laugh, And later on he said 0:11:58.080 --> 0:12:02.240 he was explaining it to his Japanese call colleague was like, oh, 0:12:02.559 --> 0:12:05.160 I know it was sarcasm. We we know all about sarcasm. 0:12:06.200 --> 0:12:09.240 Grossly inappropriate to use it. Right then I think I 0:12:09.280 --> 0:12:14.800 was like, oh god, I love it. Oh we know 0:12:14.840 --> 0:12:18.800 what sarcasm is. That just that was just not good. Sorry. 0:12:19.720 --> 0:12:23.679 Another thing you can do is elongate your words. Um, 0:12:23.720 --> 0:12:27.720 it's much difference to say oh sorry than to say sorry, Yes, 0:12:27.800 --> 0:12:31.680 that's a great, great one. That's intonation and elongating a word. 0:12:31.679 --> 0:12:34.680 I guess combined with that eye roll, you can also 0:12:34.720 --> 0:12:36.839 go the opposite way and take a word that should 0:12:36.840 --> 0:12:41.000 be said kind of um with oomph and deflating it. 0:12:41.320 --> 0:12:44.079 Yeah right, I'm big. I'm big on that one, like, um, 0:12:44.080 --> 0:12:49.720 like wow, yeah great. I say that a lot. Yeah, yeah, yeah, 0:12:49.880 --> 0:12:53.480 we we We are very sarcastic people. I've come to realize. 0:12:54.480 --> 0:12:57.120 I use for some reason. I know you didn't see 0:12:57.160 --> 0:13:00.640 Fletch and you hate Chevy Chase, but I well you no, no, 0:13:00.720 --> 0:13:07.520 I'm sorry. I love Yeah, He's my favorite. He's so funny. Um. 0:13:07.559 --> 0:13:12.439 I will would use a line from his flag occasionally. Um. 0:13:12.520 --> 0:13:13.719 I don't know why I would use it. I guess 0:13:13.760 --> 0:13:16.320 whenever there was a cop or something, I would say, 0:13:16.440 --> 0:13:19.920 thank God the police. And he says that line like 0:13:19.960 --> 0:13:22.160 that in the movie. Yeah, I can. I can totally 0:13:22.200 --> 0:13:25.840 see it wearing a baseball cap too, I'll wager m hmmm, 0:13:25.960 --> 0:13:31.200 probably maybe. Uh. You mentioned other cultures. Um, if you're 0:13:31.240 --> 0:13:35.160 a teacher of Esaul, English is a second language that 0:13:35.320 --> 0:13:37.439 is one of the trickier parts of teaching English to 0:13:38.400 --> 0:13:40.880 UH people as a second language, as adulter as kids 0:13:40.880 --> 0:13:45.040 even is is trying to teach them things like sarcasm 0:13:45.080 --> 0:13:48.400 if they're not super familiar with it. And sometimes apparently 0:13:48.480 --> 0:13:53.240 they will say, here, watch watch this TV show because 0:13:53.320 --> 0:13:57.080 you know, there's quite a bit of sarcasm on TV sitcoms. Yeah, 0:13:57.080 --> 0:13:59.600 supposedly that's a really good way to pick up on 0:14:00.280 --> 0:14:04.040 on sarcasm is watching sitcoms. Probably Friends in particular, I 0:14:04.080 --> 0:14:07.920 would guess. I'm guessing they assigned Friends a lot to 0:14:08.240 --> 0:14:11.480 be any more sarcastic. So, Chuck, this is kind of 0:14:11.520 --> 0:14:14.079 a willy nilly episode, and I kind of like them 0:14:14.120 --> 0:14:17.160 that way. I'm just gonna go ahead and confess. So 0:14:17.320 --> 0:14:19.560 there's no clear place where we should put an AD 0:14:19.600 --> 0:14:22.080 break in, So I suggest that we put an AD 0:14:22.120 --> 0:14:41.280 break in right about here. That's a great idea. Stuck, Stuck, Stuck. 0:14:41.560 --> 0:14:43.640 I don't know that you know it. Stuck in this. 0:14:45.000 --> 0:14:49.080 It's a great name. That's the name of it. It's 0:14:49.080 --> 0:14:52.360 a great name, alright, stuck with a with an X. 0:14:53.560 --> 0:14:56.080 You know. I have to say, when I was researching this, Chuck, 0:14:56.120 --> 0:14:58.880 I was wondering if we were gonna just do the 0:14:58.920 --> 0:15:03.840 weird thing in not be sarcastic. I just think that 0:15:03.840 --> 0:15:06.720 that was there was never gonna happen, was it. No, 0:15:07.960 --> 0:15:10.200 I think it's it was clear from the beginning to 0:15:10.240 --> 0:15:13.320 me that we were gonna throw our own little brand 0:15:13.360 --> 0:15:17.840 of sarcasm in. I can't help it, chunk, I can't 0:15:17.840 --> 0:15:22.120 tell if you're being straight. I can't either. So we're 0:15:22.160 --> 0:15:26.280 talking about kids, um and whether or not they understand sarcasm. 0:15:26.360 --> 0:15:30.520 And there's been um some research on this kind of thing, um, 0:15:30.600 --> 0:15:34.320 and of course it's come up with contradictory findings. One 0:15:34.360 --> 0:15:36.960 thing I saw was that kids you kept mentioning six 0:15:37.040 --> 0:15:40.000 year old's not really getting sarcasm. That's about when they 0:15:40.040 --> 0:15:44.240 start to pick it up somewhere around age six. That's 0:15:44.240 --> 0:15:48.000 when they start grade school. Okay, do with it, maybe so, 0:15:48.440 --> 0:15:51.760 But but from what I saw, they might recognize it 0:15:51.800 --> 0:15:55.560 as sarcasm. They just don't understand it as a way 0:15:55.560 --> 0:15:59.200 to employ humor. And that that comes at about age ten, 0:16:00.040 --> 0:16:05.280 which happens to coincide when kids become obnoxious. Uh yeah, 0:16:05.320 --> 0:16:07.760 and then it's all then you reap what you sow 0:16:08.040 --> 0:16:11.040 as a parent because you're like I taught you this 0:16:11.400 --> 0:16:15.680 method and UH, it's being used used against me like 0:16:15.760 --> 0:16:19.680 a weapon. There was a study in France French speaking 0:16:19.720 --> 0:16:23.480 kids in two thousand five that showed UH kids the 0:16:23.520 --> 0:16:29.240 age of five understood sarcasm when they when the sarcastic 0:16:29.600 --> 0:16:33.280 speaker was using intonation um. Where it took to be 0:16:33.440 --> 0:16:37.560 over seven to be able to tell by context, and 0:16:37.720 --> 0:16:41.440 context is when like I think the example they used 0:16:41.440 --> 0:16:44.320 in the article was if you're like having a longer 0:16:44.400 --> 0:16:48.560 conversation about UH family member being a bad gift giver, 0:16:49.120 --> 0:16:50.880 and then at the very end you say, but I 0:16:50.920 --> 0:16:54.680 love my sweater that they got me, and maybe see, 0:16:54.720 --> 0:16:57.880 like I said it even sort of regular, but contextually 0:16:58.120 --> 0:17:00.600 it would still be sarcastic. I don't know, Like even 0:17:00.640 --> 0:17:03.480 in that example, I just found it confusing to tell you. Well, 0:17:03.520 --> 0:17:05.000 I guess it could be I was a little too 0:17:05.320 --> 0:17:07.119 I sold it too well. It sounded yeah, it sounded 0:17:07.200 --> 0:17:11.800 really genuinely earnest. Right, that's the slip. That's the slippery 0:17:11.800 --> 0:17:15.959 SLOPO sarcasm, so um one of the other uh. In 0:17:16.000 --> 0:17:20.760 addition to kids not necessarily getting sarcasm, people with dementia 0:17:20.920 --> 0:17:24.560 or Alzheimer's um or brain lesions have been found to 0:17:24.640 --> 0:17:28.920 not necessarily, um, get sarcasm. And if you stop picking 0:17:29.000 --> 0:17:31.920 up on sorry sarcasm all of a sudden, Uh, that's 0:17:31.920 --> 0:17:33.800 a really good indicator that you might need to go 0:17:33.840 --> 0:17:37.199 get an m R. I too sweet, Yeah for sure. Uh. 0:17:37.359 --> 0:17:40.199 And not just that, they are all kinds of neurodiversities 0:17:40.880 --> 0:17:43.600 that people can have that make them not able to 0:17:43.600 --> 0:17:46.760 pick up on sarcasm. I know that sometimes people with 0:17:46.800 --> 0:17:52.320 autism have difficulty understanding sarcasm. Um. They might take things 0:17:52.320 --> 0:17:56.159 a little more literally then uh, neurotypical people might. So 0:17:57.000 --> 0:18:00.480 it's you know, you gotta know who you're dealing with, um, 0:18:00.480 --> 0:18:03.080 when you're throwing sarcasm around and being sensitive that kind 0:18:03.080 --> 0:18:06.679 of thing, right for sure. So um, So people with 0:18:06.720 --> 0:18:10.840 autism are famously kind of associated with an inability to 0:18:11.000 --> 0:18:14.640 detect sarcasm. And from what I've seen, that's not really 0:18:14.720 --> 0:18:17.240 the best way to put it. That they that many 0:18:17.600 --> 0:18:24.160 people with autism can detect a detect sarcasm, use sarcasm um, 0:18:24.320 --> 0:18:27.400 some find it funny, Others can recognize it but don't 0:18:27.400 --> 0:18:31.360 necessarily find it funny. Um. But there's different I don't 0:18:31.359 --> 0:18:33.560 know if they're competing or not. There's different theories as 0:18:33.560 --> 0:18:37.520 to why that's the case. It supposedly UM. People with 0:18:37.560 --> 0:18:42.040 autism tend to use more literal thinking than UM. The 0:18:42.760 --> 0:18:47.399 kind of UM, well, let me just say, sarcasm is 0:18:47.480 --> 0:18:51.000 known as a form of unplaine speaking, along with some 0:18:51.080 --> 0:18:54.000 other kinds like UM forced politeness, where you like, are 0:18:54.119 --> 0:18:57.120 nice as somebody who who's got you hate UM are 0:18:57.200 --> 0:19:02.920 using aphorisms UM or ritual language like when you say 0:19:03.040 --> 0:19:04.960 I'm fine when somebody asks you how you're doing, even 0:19:04.960 --> 0:19:08.240 though you're not fine. UM. Sarcasm falls under that. It's 0:19:08.240 --> 0:19:12.400 it's not saying what you mean directly. And so if 0:19:12.480 --> 0:19:16.360 people with autism tend to use direct thinking and literal thinking, 0:19:17.040 --> 0:19:20.719 if you use indirect or unplane speaking, it's gonna be 0:19:20.760 --> 0:19:22.600 hard for them to pick up on. They're gonna take 0:19:22.640 --> 0:19:25.200 it at its literal meaning, they might not pick up 0:19:25.200 --> 0:19:28.639 on the sarcasm um. And so that that kind of 0:19:28.800 --> 0:19:33.400 tend that UM tendency to think literally combined with UH 0:19:33.440 --> 0:19:37.280 an undeveloped theory of mind, which is where you can 0:19:37.400 --> 0:19:40.000 put yourself in the other person's shoes and imagine what 0:19:40.040 --> 0:19:43.560 they're thinking easily, which is what sarcasm requires you to do, 0:19:43.640 --> 0:19:45.879 because they're saying something different, but you know that's not 0:19:45.920 --> 0:19:48.720 what they mean, and that requires that you go into 0:19:48.720 --> 0:19:52.440 their mind and tool around. Those two things combined tend 0:19:52.480 --> 0:19:55.480 to explain why people with autism are kind of thought 0:19:55.560 --> 0:20:02.200 of as not detecting sarcasm. You got a job, Okay, thanks? Thanks. 0:20:02.800 --> 0:20:05.120 If I had rainbow suspenders on right now, I would 0:20:05.119 --> 0:20:08.320 have just snapped him after them. I actually had those 0:20:08.320 --> 0:20:11.080 when I was a kid. I wanted those for a 0:20:11.320 --> 0:20:14.160 long time. Yeah, I mean it was the whole Mork 0:20:14.200 --> 0:20:16.160 and mindy thing. I even had the buttons on them, 0:20:16.160 --> 0:20:19.880 and I wore the khaki pants. I did my best 0:20:19.920 --> 0:20:23.600 to beat work from work. Yeah, so Morks suspenders are 0:20:23.600 --> 0:20:29.159 obviously primo. But there's an overlooked vest, a puffy vest 0:20:29.240 --> 0:20:30.879 that he wears in the credits when they're on the 0:20:30.920 --> 0:20:34.639 football field that I would say even top the rainbow suspenders. 0:20:35.080 --> 0:20:37.800 I would love to get my hands on that. Yeah, 0:20:37.800 --> 0:20:39.840 looking back, I was just trying to be in work 0:20:39.880 --> 0:20:46.280 from work, but I was dork from dork. I don't 0:20:46.280 --> 0:20:49.800 have any pictures of that, unfortunately. Can you mention wearing 0:20:49.840 --> 0:20:54.080 those with like a spinning bow time like now? No, 0:20:54.320 --> 0:20:58.520 especially as a kid like I don't know about this guy, 0:20:58.600 --> 0:21:02.760 but this kid wearing that you'd be all right, Uh, 0:21:02.800 --> 0:21:04.800 if you're talking about the brain. That was a study 0:21:04.800 --> 0:21:08.280 in two thousand five that, um, and this kind of 0:21:08.280 --> 0:21:11.439 stuff is always I feel like we just have to 0:21:11.440 --> 0:21:14.239 say it, even though people are like, Okay, those are 0:21:14.280 --> 0:21:16.439 the three parts of the brain. Thinks nothing to me. 0:21:17.520 --> 0:21:20.600 But the three parts the language cortex and the left hemisphere, 0:21:20.680 --> 0:21:23.560 the frontal lobes and the right hemisphere and the right 0:21:24.200 --> 0:21:29.640 the right ventro medial prefrontal cortex. You're gonna hear the comment, 0:21:30.200 --> 0:21:33.480 and your language cortex kicks in and understands the literal 0:21:33.520 --> 0:21:36.920 meaning great weather. Right. Then the frontal lobe and the 0:21:37.000 --> 0:21:41.080 right hemisphere have the context it's raining. And then that 0:21:41.200 --> 0:21:44.600 right ventro medial prefrontal cortex puts the two together and 0:21:44.600 --> 0:21:48.760 it goes sarcasm dummy, right, and the laugh region goes 0:21:48.800 --> 0:21:53.840 bananas down the laugh region. It's sometimes it can be funny, 0:21:53.920 --> 0:21:56.040 but it's you've got to really be good at it. 0:21:56.640 --> 0:22:00.520 So um, Chuck, I was talking about how sarcasm qualifies 0:22:00.520 --> 0:22:03.439 as unplane speaking. That's like the general umbrella that it 0:22:03.480 --> 0:22:07.560 falls under, right, Um, and that the fact that it 0:22:07.720 --> 0:22:11.720 is unplaine speaking where you can get a message across 0:22:11.760 --> 0:22:16.760 just as easily directly saying the weather sucks today. What 0:22:17.040 --> 0:22:20.800 is the point then, of using sarcasm, of saying great 0:22:20.840 --> 0:22:25.360 weather today rather than this weather sucks today. Um. There, 0:22:25.400 --> 0:22:32.760 and so linguists, researchers, um, you know, speech scientists, talkie doctors, 0:22:33.280 --> 0:22:36.000 all these people together have have come up with this 0:22:36.040 --> 0:22:40.240 idea that there must be some additional thing that's going 0:22:40.320 --> 0:22:43.919 on there. Clearly that there is something gained by using 0:22:43.960 --> 0:22:49.240 sarcasm over using the direct message that gets the same 0:22:49.280 --> 0:22:52.440 point across, because sarcasm has got a little extra mustard 0:22:52.520 --> 0:22:54.840 on it, and they've tried to get to the bottom 0:22:54.880 --> 0:22:57.920 of exactly what that mustard is. And I'm sorry to 0:22:58.000 --> 0:23:01.119 use mustard. I know you don't like it very much. Yeah. 0:23:01.160 --> 0:23:03.760 And by the way, my dog might actually be barking 0:23:03.760 --> 0:23:05.879 some in this episode and there's just nothing I can do, 0:23:05.880 --> 0:23:09.240 and I think that makes it folcasy. We usually trying 0:23:09.240 --> 0:23:11.880 to edit that out. But well, to see, um, there 0:23:11.720 --> 0:23:16.160 are a couple of ideas on why people do it. Um, 0:23:16.200 --> 0:23:18.359 Like when it's a purposeful thing and not just like 0:23:18.440 --> 0:23:22.520 I'm trying to be funny or whatever. Um. Sometimes well, 0:23:22.560 --> 0:23:24.600 sometimes it could just be as easy as like you 0:23:24.640 --> 0:23:27.720 have a very hard time being straightforward with someone, and you, 0:23:27.840 --> 0:23:29.560 like you said, you use it to high, to use 0:23:29.600 --> 0:23:33.200 it as a defense or something like that, Um, cloaking 0:23:33.320 --> 0:23:36.480 something in a positive term. Oh, you did a really 0:23:36.480 --> 0:23:41.600 great job with that episode, Josh. Um. That's sarcastic criticism, 0:23:41.760 --> 0:23:45.080 whereas you can do the exact opposite. Uh, if you 0:23:45.160 --> 0:23:48.399 and I were out. Um. I mean the example that 0:23:48.480 --> 0:23:50.919 use in the article is fishing and I'm not catching 0:23:50.960 --> 0:23:53.760 any fish and you're just like catching tons of fish. 0:23:53.960 --> 0:23:56.520 I'm like, oh boy, you're really you really suck at 0:23:56.560 --> 0:24:02.040 that fishing thing. That is a sarcastic compliment. And this 0:24:02.119 --> 0:24:04.280 is all wrapped up under what's called the Tinge theory 0:24:04.280 --> 0:24:08.320 of sarcasm, which is you're you're trying to mute either 0:24:08.400 --> 0:24:12.080 your criticism or your praise of somebody by throwing like 0:24:12.280 --> 0:24:14.919 slapping that mustard on it. Yeah, by tinging it with iron. 0:24:15.119 --> 0:24:18.080 Hence the name. Right. There's also like a related one 0:24:18.480 --> 0:24:21.920 that really just kind of looks at them the criticism 0:24:21.960 --> 0:24:25.000 part um. It's called politeness theory, and it basically just 0:24:25.040 --> 0:24:28.200 says that we use sarcasm to criticize because it makes 0:24:28.240 --> 0:24:32.000 the criticism more palatable. And so you put that together, 0:24:32.200 --> 0:24:35.359 and that is one interpretation of what sarcasm is. Therefore, 0:24:35.400 --> 0:24:38.600 it's meant to boost, it's meant to mute either the 0:24:38.640 --> 0:24:42.040 compliment or the praise or the criticism. But then there's 0:24:42.040 --> 0:24:46.119 another one that's that basically says the exact opposite, that 0:24:46.160 --> 0:24:49.760 sarcasm is meant to be like more biting, that it's 0:24:49.800 --> 0:24:53.320 meant to really make the mustard spicy and put it 0:24:53.440 --> 0:24:57.320