1 00:00:01,480 --> 00:00:04,280 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff you should know, a production of I 2 00:00:04,360 --> 00:00:14,000 Speaker 1: Heart Radio. Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark. 3 00:00:14,040 --> 00:00:18,240 Speaker 1: There's Charles w Chuck Bryant, Dave Kustin's in here with us. 4 00:00:19,239 --> 00:00:22,040 Speaker 1: I just heard him laugh and snicker to himself, which 5 00:00:22,079 --> 00:00:25,400 Speaker 1: is always a heartwarming sound. And it's as he mispronounced 6 00:00:25,400 --> 00:00:28,560 Speaker 1: his name. No, no, I said it right. Couston thought 7 00:00:28,560 --> 00:00:31,360 Speaker 1: it was Coustan. No, that's what you wanted to sound 8 00:00:31,480 --> 00:00:36,880 Speaker 1: like when you're French. No, this is Couston, like Houston exactly, 9 00:00:37,000 --> 00:00:39,800 Speaker 1: but with the sea instead of an h. Couston means 10 00:00:39,840 --> 00:00:46,239 Speaker 1: that I'm one day closer to you. What. That's a song, right, 11 00:00:46,840 --> 00:00:52,720 Speaker 1: Houston means that I'm one one step. That's a country jam. Okay, 12 00:00:52,720 --> 00:00:56,040 Speaker 1: I was gonna guess Dion Warwick. She always like singing 13 00:00:56,080 --> 00:01:01,720 Speaker 1: about about Susan, Yeah, about San Jose at cetera. Okay, 14 00:01:02,160 --> 00:01:05,800 Speaker 1: that was a Backer act Burt Backer act song. Um, 15 00:01:05,959 --> 00:01:09,199 Speaker 1: and she popularized it because she did it so well. 16 00:01:09,240 --> 00:01:12,039 Speaker 1: Do you know the way to San Jose? Okay, I 17 00:01:12,080 --> 00:01:15,000 Speaker 1: didn't know she's saying that. Oh yeah, I guess she 18 00:01:15,120 --> 00:01:21,800 Speaker 1: popularized it with everyone but you. Okay, that was sarcastic. No, 19 00:01:22,000 --> 00:01:26,240 Speaker 1: that was that was pretty straightforward direct sarcastic would have 20 00:01:26,319 --> 00:01:31,120 Speaker 1: been like, um, oh, I'm sure you didn't know that. Yeah, 21 00:01:31,120 --> 00:01:33,120 Speaker 1: I guess that would be sarcastic. It wouldn't have made 22 00:01:33,160 --> 00:01:36,679 Speaker 1: much sense, but yes, you know what's funny, chuck in. 23 00:01:36,680 --> 00:01:39,720 Speaker 1: In researching this, I kept trying to come up with 24 00:01:39,880 --> 00:01:44,000 Speaker 1: um examples of sarcasm, and it's one of the hardest 25 00:01:44,000 --> 00:01:48,440 Speaker 1: things in the world to do with with thought. Sarcasm 26 00:01:48,560 --> 00:01:53,800 Speaker 1: is like almost always off the cuff or not very 27 00:01:53,840 --> 00:01:57,680 Speaker 1: well thought out. It's which which um, I think is 28 00:01:57,680 --> 00:02:01,000 Speaker 1: one reason why you know, most people will agree that 29 00:02:01,160 --> 00:02:04,440 Speaker 1: somebody who is an employing sarcasm, even when they're not 30 00:02:04,520 --> 00:02:07,400 Speaker 1: very good at it, is the funniest person in the world. 31 00:02:07,480 --> 00:02:13,560 Speaker 1: Right then, see that's sarcasm. I I can't help myself. Yeah, 32 00:02:13,600 --> 00:02:17,160 Speaker 1: this researching sarcasm really makes you take a long, hard 33 00:02:17,200 --> 00:02:19,600 Speaker 1: look in the mirror, doesn't it. It really does, and 34 00:02:19,680 --> 00:02:23,800 Speaker 1: at people who are big fans of Deadpool. Oh I 35 00:02:23,840 --> 00:02:27,920 Speaker 1: do like Deadpool. Uh, here's my ideal with sarcasm. It 36 00:02:28,080 --> 00:02:32,400 Speaker 1: is laying ones. I mean I definitely can be sarcastic. 37 00:02:32,440 --> 00:02:33,880 Speaker 1: I think all of us can be, and I think 38 00:02:33,880 --> 00:02:39,160 Speaker 1: it can be used for funzies but I definitely see 39 00:02:39,160 --> 00:02:42,720 Speaker 1: where I can be a real a hole sometimes by 40 00:02:42,720 --> 00:02:46,360 Speaker 1: being sarcastic, like to Emily. And that's like the sort 41 00:02:46,400 --> 00:02:49,760 Speaker 1: of that goes back to my end. Boy, I'm sort 42 00:02:49,760 --> 00:02:53,440 Speaker 1: of revealing some stuff here, but that it falls under 43 00:02:53,440 --> 00:02:58,040 Speaker 1: the umbrella of of my communication issues instead of being 44 00:02:58,040 --> 00:03:01,960 Speaker 1: like straightforward with something may be being sarcastic but passive 45 00:03:01,960 --> 00:03:04,800 Speaker 1: aggressive and me and and sarcasm all kind of go 46 00:03:04,880 --> 00:03:07,160 Speaker 1: hand in hand. I think, Yeah, so you've hit upon 47 00:03:07,320 --> 00:03:10,520 Speaker 1: something that I think is not really necessarily obvious to 48 00:03:10,600 --> 00:03:14,680 Speaker 1: just anybody when they are confront of a sarcasm. Is 49 00:03:14,720 --> 00:03:18,400 Speaker 1: that No, sarcasm is a way to hide. It's a 50 00:03:18,400 --> 00:03:20,520 Speaker 1: way to hide from emotions. It's a way to hide 51 00:03:20,560 --> 00:03:24,600 Speaker 1: from direct conflict if you're not um big into conflict. 52 00:03:24,880 --> 00:03:28,320 Speaker 1: It's a way to hide from criticizing somebody when you're 53 00:03:28,320 --> 00:03:30,480 Speaker 1: not big into that but you really need to or 54 00:03:30,560 --> 00:03:33,400 Speaker 1: you want to. And you said it it's passive aggressive. 55 00:03:33,919 --> 00:03:37,400 Speaker 1: But I think we should make the distinction. And I 56 00:03:37,400 --> 00:03:40,480 Speaker 1: I um came across this very late in research, but 57 00:03:40,560 --> 00:03:43,040 Speaker 1: it makes a lot of sense to me that there's 58 00:03:43,080 --> 00:03:50,320 Speaker 1: a distinction between sarcasm and verbal irony, and that sarcasm 59 00:03:50,560 --> 00:03:56,680 Speaker 1: is at its core, insulting, mocking, harmful, and hurtful, whereas 60 00:03:56,800 --> 00:04:04,920 Speaker 1: verbal verbal irony is just basically like a joke where 61 00:04:04,960 --> 00:04:09,320 Speaker 1: no one gets insulted, where where maybe a situation is 62 00:04:09,360 --> 00:04:13,480 Speaker 1: being made fun of, Like if it's exactly if it's 63 00:04:13,600 --> 00:04:17,000 Speaker 1: raining cats and dogs, yes, that would be verbal irony, 64 00:04:17,160 --> 00:04:20,679 Speaker 1: not sarcasm. Um. I saw a really great example about 65 00:04:20,720 --> 00:04:24,160 Speaker 1: the distinction on I can't remember. It was like a 66 00:04:24,200 --> 00:04:27,760 Speaker 1: TV and film writing website, but they basically said, in 67 00:04:27,800 --> 00:04:30,440 Speaker 1: that sense, that would be verbal irony. But if you 68 00:04:30,520 --> 00:04:34,720 Speaker 1: were the spouse of a meteorologist who for forecast a 69 00:04:34,800 --> 00:04:38,080 Speaker 1: sunny day when they came home and it was raining 70 00:04:38,120 --> 00:04:42,080 Speaker 1: cats and dogs, and you said, great weather today, that 71 00:04:42,120 --> 00:04:45,080 Speaker 1: would be sarcasm because you're insulting or mocking them for 72 00:04:45,120 --> 00:04:48,520 Speaker 1: getting it wrong. Right, Like, let's say you and I 73 00:04:48,520 --> 00:04:52,240 Speaker 1: are neighbors. Great weather today, Josh, Oh you said it 74 00:04:52,240 --> 00:04:56,279 Speaker 1: their neighbor. Hey, I can speak for myself, Oh you 75 00:04:56,400 --> 00:05:00,680 Speaker 1: said it there, neighbor. Different than Hey, nice job with 76 00:05:00,720 --> 00:05:06,799 Speaker 1: your front lawn, Josh, and I sank swimming under you. 77 00:05:06,800 --> 00:05:09,640 Speaker 1: You're the six year old that takes everything literally exactly 78 00:05:11,080 --> 00:05:14,920 Speaker 1: because I have, uh, I have noticed that. What made 79 00:05:14,920 --> 00:05:17,039 Speaker 1: me think of sarcasm. You picked this article, but I 80 00:05:17,080 --> 00:05:19,520 Speaker 1: was like, that's kind of perfect because having a kid 81 00:05:19,560 --> 00:05:22,440 Speaker 1: will make you realize how often you're sarcastic because they 82 00:05:22,440 --> 00:05:26,240 Speaker 1: don't get it, at least not yet. She's uh, just 83 00:05:26,320 --> 00:05:29,360 Speaker 1: during six same days you happy birthday, Yeah, happy birthday, 84 00:05:29,400 --> 00:05:32,440 Speaker 1: Ruby too, and very sweet gifts that you sent, and 85 00:05:32,920 --> 00:05:36,440 Speaker 1: you guys exchange the video messages, which was adorable. But um, 86 00:05:36,680 --> 00:05:39,760 Speaker 1: she's six and she still doesn't get sarcasm. And I've 87 00:05:39,760 --> 00:05:41,640 Speaker 1: had to say like that was sarcasm and she's like 88 00:05:41,720 --> 00:05:45,480 Speaker 1: what And I'm like, man, why just keep that purity 89 00:05:45,480 --> 00:05:49,920 Speaker 1: alive of them taking things literally? Yeah, yeah, don't don't 90 00:05:49,960 --> 00:05:52,520 Speaker 1: introduce sarcasm to your kid, but you can't help it. No, 91 00:05:52,680 --> 00:05:56,320 Speaker 1: And that's the thing, Like, there's there's a whole school 92 00:05:56,320 --> 00:05:59,039 Speaker 1: of thought that it's like to heck with sarcasm, Like 93 00:05:59,080 --> 00:06:02,240 Speaker 1: we don't need it. People who use sarcasm are annoying, 94 00:06:02,400 --> 00:06:06,240 Speaker 1: insecure people. Um there, it's it's not a nice thing 95 00:06:06,320 --> 00:06:09,080 Speaker 1: to do or say, like there's better ways of getting 96 00:06:09,080 --> 00:06:12,159 Speaker 1: your point across, and it's not even particularly funny. But 97 00:06:12,279 --> 00:06:14,560 Speaker 1: the thing is is I've found that when you follow 98 00:06:14,640 --> 00:06:21,120 Speaker 1: that thread, there's like something inherently problematic with it, and 99 00:06:21,160 --> 00:06:25,120 Speaker 1: that there is some value to sarcasm in some some instances. 100 00:06:25,160 --> 00:06:27,600 Speaker 1: It's just one of those things that should be wielded 101 00:06:27,960 --> 00:06:32,160 Speaker 1: very delicately and infrequently in the right context. But if 102 00:06:32,160 --> 00:06:34,760 Speaker 1: you do it like that, sure, and if you do 103 00:06:34,800 --> 00:06:38,480 Speaker 1: it like that though, it can be um very useful 104 00:06:38,520 --> 00:06:42,240 Speaker 1: and actually some studies have found um that it's actually 105 00:06:42,240 --> 00:06:45,919 Speaker 1: beneficial brain wise too. Although researching all of the sarcasm 106 00:06:46,040 --> 00:06:50,520 Speaker 1: stuff has just reiterated my um my belief that social 107 00:06:50,520 --> 00:06:53,880 Speaker 1: psychology as a field should be completely dissolved and they 108 00:06:53,880 --> 00:06:57,520 Speaker 1: should just start from scratch again because it is almost 109 00:06:57,640 --> 00:07:03,719 Speaker 1: exclusively useless. It is so bad. We should have a 110 00:07:04,000 --> 00:07:06,000 Speaker 1: every time you go off on social psychology, we should 111 00:07:06,000 --> 00:07:09,000 Speaker 1: have a sound effect. We would just start employing again, 112 00:07:10,480 --> 00:07:13,200 Speaker 1: just get that part. We should hire a barbershop quartet, 113 00:07:13,240 --> 00:07:15,280 Speaker 1: just full time to stand behind us. Made up was 114 00:07:15,600 --> 00:07:20,280 Speaker 1: exclusively as social psychologists exactly who can also sing the 115 00:07:20,360 --> 00:07:27,280 Speaker 1: sweet sweet tunes? So Webster's defines, Um, that's a great start, 116 00:07:27,360 --> 00:07:30,160 Speaker 1: chuck Uh. It's actually the Oxford English Dictionary if you 117 00:07:30,200 --> 00:07:33,640 Speaker 1: want to go back to the original definition, which I 118 00:07:33,640 --> 00:07:35,960 Speaker 1: think it is useful. We don't love to read definitions, 119 00:07:35,960 --> 00:07:39,480 Speaker 1: but its first definition was a sharp, bitter or cutting 120 00:07:39,480 --> 00:07:43,840 Speaker 1: expression or remark, a bitter jibe or taunt. And the 121 00:07:43,880 --> 00:07:48,200 Speaker 1: word itself even derives from ancient Greek from to tear flesh, 122 00:07:48,240 --> 00:07:51,760 Speaker 1: gnash the teeth, and speak bitterly. So it seems like 123 00:07:51,840 --> 00:07:56,200 Speaker 1: from the beginning sarcasm was not like a nice and 124 00:07:56,200 --> 00:07:59,000 Speaker 1: and super funny thing for people. Know, And apparently the 125 00:07:59,040 --> 00:08:04,280 Speaker 1: ancient Greeks um had their own famous sarcast and Socrates 126 00:08:04,520 --> 00:08:07,800 Speaker 1: who was um known for what's now known as sark 127 00:08:08,120 --> 00:08:12,720 Speaker 1: Socratic irony, which is terrible where basically you play dumb 128 00:08:13,560 --> 00:08:16,200 Speaker 1: uh when you're talking to somebody in order to kind 129 00:08:16,200 --> 00:08:18,560 Speaker 1: of get their true opinion out about something, and then 130 00:08:18,640 --> 00:08:22,120 Speaker 1: you destroy their opinion and you suddenly become intelligent and 131 00:08:22,160 --> 00:08:24,840 Speaker 1: destroy their opinion. It's a terrible, terrible thing to do. 132 00:08:25,160 --> 00:08:28,160 Speaker 1: But apparently Socrates was well known for that kind of thing, 133 00:08:28,240 --> 00:08:30,920 Speaker 1: so much so that they named it after him. That's right. 134 00:08:31,040 --> 00:08:35,079 Speaker 1: He it's called the how how about them? Apple's approach? Right? 135 00:08:36,679 --> 00:08:40,600 Speaker 1: Um Interpreting sarcasm, That's that's where it gets tricky because 136 00:08:41,760 --> 00:08:44,160 Speaker 1: and that's why a six year old and we'll get 137 00:08:44,160 --> 00:08:46,800 Speaker 1: two kids more because and some people say that by 138 00:08:46,840 --> 00:08:51,360 Speaker 1: that age they can detect sarcasm. But we'll get to that. Um. 139 00:08:51,400 --> 00:08:54,000 Speaker 1: I'm glad that that my daughter can't yet because that 140 00:08:54,040 --> 00:08:57,640 Speaker 1: means that she's not a jerk yet. But as far 141 00:08:57,679 --> 00:09:00,880 Speaker 1: as picking up on these clues, you, the words themselves 142 00:09:00,880 --> 00:09:03,720 Speaker 1: you can't rely on. So what you're looking for? Other 143 00:09:03,800 --> 00:09:08,720 Speaker 1: kinds of clues uh that are myriad um. One of 144 00:09:08,720 --> 00:09:12,360 Speaker 1: which is obviously the tone of voice. Uh. Let's say 145 00:09:12,400 --> 00:09:15,200 Speaker 1: you can't even see the person. If you see someone 146 00:09:15,360 --> 00:09:19,959 Speaker 1: say great weather today, like you, you know without even 147 00:09:20,000 --> 00:09:22,760 Speaker 1: looking out the window, that that probably means it's it's 148 00:09:22,880 --> 00:09:25,040 Speaker 1: raining or something. Yeah, I don't even need to look. 149 00:09:25,040 --> 00:09:28,880 Speaker 1: They just saved you the effort, right. And some people 150 00:09:28,920 --> 00:09:32,200 Speaker 1: say that that's a nasal tone. Uh. This kind of 151 00:09:32,240 --> 00:09:34,640 Speaker 1: seemed a little hinky to me, But some researchers have 152 00:09:34,760 --> 00:09:38,680 Speaker 1: said that there's a connection between that, um, sarcasm and 153 00:09:38,760 --> 00:09:41,800 Speaker 1: extreme disgust, and that's why it comes out nasally, like 154 00:09:41,800 --> 00:09:44,960 Speaker 1: you're trying to expel something through like your mouth and 155 00:09:45,000 --> 00:09:49,520 Speaker 1: your nose. Great weather, like your nose wrinkles. I guess 156 00:09:49,559 --> 00:09:52,520 Speaker 1: a little bit I can see maybe. Uh. And then 157 00:09:52,520 --> 00:09:55,280 Speaker 1: of course their physical cues like a a good eye 158 00:09:55,360 --> 00:09:57,840 Speaker 1: roll or at least like looking up when you say 159 00:09:57,880 --> 00:09:59,880 Speaker 1: something is a big, big clue. Yeah, that one in 160 00:10:00,040 --> 00:10:03,640 Speaker 1: particulars because your brain is going haywire because you're saying 161 00:10:03,679 --> 00:10:07,559 Speaker 1: the opposite of what you mean. And researchers have concluded 162 00:10:07,600 --> 00:10:11,080 Speaker 1: that that looking up, which kind of looks like an 163 00:10:11,120 --> 00:10:17,040 Speaker 1: eye roll, is actually processing difficulty. Your brain was like, 164 00:10:17,080 --> 00:10:18,920 Speaker 1: I don't know what, dude, You just make the eyes 165 00:10:19,000 --> 00:10:21,000 Speaker 1: look up while I try to figure out what I'm 166 00:10:21,040 --> 00:10:25,160 Speaker 1: doing here. That that's that. Yeah, there's social psychology is 167 00:10:25,200 --> 00:10:31,080 Speaker 1: big contribution. Um. As far as the intonation, uh, there's 168 00:10:31,120 --> 00:10:36,160 Speaker 1: some researchers that have called that inverse pitch obtrusion, which, uh, 169 00:10:36,360 --> 00:10:39,160 Speaker 1: great weather is if it was really great weather, you 170 00:10:39,160 --> 00:10:42,040 Speaker 1: would say great weather today. Huh. And if not, you'd 171 00:10:42,040 --> 00:10:44,720 Speaker 1: say great weather. So your your tone and your intonation 172 00:10:44,760 --> 00:10:47,719 Speaker 1: goes down as a clear signal of sarcasm. Yeah, which 173 00:10:47,760 --> 00:10:53,800 Speaker 1: supposedly intonation or pitch um inverse pitch obtrusion is um 174 00:10:54,000 --> 00:10:57,360 Speaker 1: pretty universal as far as languages go. Are different cultures 175 00:10:58,120 --> 00:11:01,360 Speaker 1: because other cultures are sarcastic just American, No, And there's 176 00:11:01,360 --> 00:11:05,240 Speaker 1: a big there's a big debate online about whether it's 177 00:11:05,240 --> 00:11:08,520 Speaker 1: a universal whether sarcasm is universal, and some people are 178 00:11:08,559 --> 00:11:11,200 Speaker 1: saying like, yes, it's everywhere, like even if a culture 179 00:11:11,200 --> 00:11:13,679 Speaker 1: has a taboo against it, which some could, although I 180 00:11:13,679 --> 00:11:17,280 Speaker 1: couldn't find which ones. Um, although I think China has 181 00:11:17,320 --> 00:11:23,840 Speaker 1: widely pointed to is a not a very high sarcasm culture. Um. 182 00:11:24,000 --> 00:11:25,960 Speaker 1: But that if you have if your culture has a 183 00:11:25,960 --> 00:11:28,800 Speaker 1: taboo against sarcasm, you have to be aware of sarcasm 184 00:11:28,880 --> 00:11:31,480 Speaker 1: to have a taboo against it. So it's still in 185 00:11:31,520 --> 00:11:35,040 Speaker 1: that sense universal, even if it's not universally used or 186 00:11:35,200 --> 00:11:39,360 Speaker 1: accepted by each culture. Yeah, for sure, I could see 187 00:11:40,120 --> 00:11:43,160 Speaker 1: Japan is not being super sarcastic. So I read an 188 00:11:43,240 --> 00:11:48,400 Speaker 1: article about Japan. It was like a business writer's um experience, 189 00:11:48,520 --> 00:11:52,560 Speaker 1: like a British expat working in Japan, and he said 190 00:11:52,559 --> 00:11:54,920 Speaker 1: he used sarcasm and like he didn't really get much 191 00:11:55,040 --> 00:11:58,080 Speaker 1: laugh much of a laugh, And later on he said 192 00:11:58,080 --> 00:12:02,240 Speaker 1: he was explaining it to his Japanese call colleague was like, oh, 193 00:12:02,559 --> 00:12:05,160 Speaker 1: I know it was sarcasm. We we know all about sarcasm. 194 00:12:06,200 --> 00:12:09,240 Speaker 1: Grossly inappropriate to use it. Right then I think I 195 00:12:09,280 --> 00:12:14,800 Speaker 1: was like, oh god, I love it. Oh we know 196 00:12:14,840 --> 00:12:18,800 Speaker 1: what sarcasm is. That just that was just not good. Sorry. 197 00:12:19,720 --> 00:12:23,679 Speaker 1: Another thing you can do is elongate your words. Um, 198 00:12:23,720 --> 00:12:27,720 Speaker 1: it's much difference to say oh sorry than to say sorry, Yes, 199 00:12:27,800 --> 00:12:31,680 Speaker 1: that's a great, great one. That's intonation and elongating a word. 200 00:12:31,679 --> 00:12:34,680 Speaker 1: I guess combined with that eye roll, you can also 201 00:12:34,720 --> 00:12:36,839 Speaker 1: go the opposite way and take a word that should 202 00:12:36,840 --> 00:12:41,000 Speaker 1: be said kind of um with oomph and deflating it. 203 00:12:41,320 --> 00:12:44,079 Speaker 1: Yeah right, I'm big. I'm big on that one, like, um, 204 00:12:44,080 --> 00:12:49,720 Speaker 1: like wow, yeah great. I say that a lot. Yeah, yeah, yeah, 205 00:12:49,880 --> 00:12:53,480 Speaker 1: we we We are very sarcastic people. I've come to realize. 206 00:12:54,480 --> 00:12:57,120 Speaker 1: I use for some reason. I know you didn't see 207 00:12:57,160 --> 00:13:00,640 Speaker 1: Fletch and you hate Chevy Chase, but I well you no, no, 208 00:13:00,720 --> 00:13:07,520 Speaker 1: I'm sorry. I love Yeah, He's my favorite. He's so funny. Um. 209 00:13:07,559 --> 00:13:12,439 Speaker 1: I will would use a line from his flag occasionally. Um. 210 00:13:12,520 --> 00:13:13,719 Speaker 1: I don't know why I would use it. I guess 211 00:13:13,760 --> 00:13:16,320 Speaker 1: whenever there was a cop or something, I would say, 212 00:13:16,440 --> 00:13:19,920 Speaker 1: thank God the police. And he says that line like 213 00:13:19,960 --> 00:13:22,160 Speaker 1: that in the movie. Yeah, I can. I can totally 214 00:13:22,200 --> 00:13:25,840 Speaker 1: see it wearing a baseball cap too, I'll wager m hmmm, 215 00:13:25,960 --> 00:13:31,200 Speaker 1: probably maybe. Uh. You mentioned other cultures. Um, if you're 216 00:13:31,240 --> 00:13:35,160 Speaker 1: a teacher of Esaul, English is a second language that 217 00:13:35,320 --> 00:13:37,439 Speaker 1: is one of the trickier parts of teaching English to 218 00:13:38,400 --> 00:13:40,880 Speaker 1: UH people as a second language, as adulter as kids 219 00:13:40,880 --> 00:13:45,040 Speaker 1: even is is trying to teach them things like sarcasm 220 00:13:45,080 --> 00:13:48,400 Speaker 1: if they're not super familiar with it. And sometimes apparently 221 00:13:48,480 --> 00:13:53,240 Speaker 1: they will say, here, watch watch this TV show because 222 00:13:53,320 --> 00:13:57,080 Speaker 1: you know, there's quite a bit of sarcasm on TV sitcoms. Yeah, 223 00:13:57,080 --> 00:13:59,600 Speaker 1: supposedly that's a really good way to pick up on 224 00:14:00,280 --> 00:14:04,040 Speaker 1: on sarcasm is watching sitcoms. Probably Friends in particular, I 225 00:14:04,080 --> 00:14:07,920 Speaker 1: would guess. I'm guessing they assigned Friends a lot to 226 00:14:08,240 --> 00:14:11,480 Speaker 1: be any more sarcastic. So, Chuck, this is kind of 227 00:14:11,520 --> 00:14:14,079 Speaker 1: a willy nilly episode, and I kind of like them 228 00:14:14,120 --> 00:14:17,160 Speaker 1: that way. I'm just gonna go ahead and confess. So 229 00:14:17,320 --> 00:14:19,560 Speaker 1: there's no clear place where we should put an AD 230 00:14:19,600 --> 00:14:22,080 Speaker 1: break in, So I suggest that we put an AD 231 00:14:22,120 --> 00:14:41,280 Speaker 1: break in right about here. That's a great idea. Stuck, Stuck, Stuck. 232 00:14:41,560 --> 00:14:43,640 Speaker 1: I don't know that you know it. Stuck in this. 233 00:14:45,000 --> 00:14:49,080 Speaker 1: It's a great name. That's the name of it. It's 234 00:14:49,080 --> 00:14:52,360 Speaker 1: a great name, alright, stuck with a with an X. 235 00:14:53,560 --> 00:14:56,080 Speaker 1: You know. I have to say, when I was researching this, Chuck, 236 00:14:56,120 --> 00:14:58,880 Speaker 1: I was wondering if we were gonna just do the 237 00:14:58,920 --> 00:15:03,840 Speaker 1: weird thing in not be sarcastic. I just think that 238 00:15:03,840 --> 00:15:06,720 Speaker 1: that was there was never gonna happen, was it. No, 239 00:15:07,960 --> 00:15:10,200 Speaker 1: I think it's it was clear from the beginning to 240 00:15:10,240 --> 00:15:13,320 Speaker 1: me that we were gonna throw our own little brand 241 00:15:13,360 --> 00:15:17,840 Speaker 1: of sarcasm in. I can't help it, chunk, I can't 242 00:15:17,840 --> 00:15:22,120 Speaker 1: tell if you're being straight. I can't either. So we're 243 00:15:22,160 --> 00:15:26,280 Speaker 1: talking about kids, um and whether or not they understand sarcasm. 244 00:15:26,360 --> 00:15:30,520 Speaker 1: And there's been um some research on this kind of thing, um, 245 00:15:30,600 --> 00:15:34,320 Speaker 1: and of course it's come up with contradictory findings. One 246 00:15:34,360 --> 00:15:36,960 Speaker 1: thing I saw was that kids you kept mentioning six 247 00:15:37,040 --> 00:15:40,000 Speaker 1: year old's not really getting sarcasm. That's about when they 248 00:15:40,040 --> 00:15:44,240 Speaker 1: start to pick it up somewhere around age six. That's 249 00:15:44,240 --> 00:15:48,000 Speaker 1: when they start grade school. Okay, do with it, maybe so, 250 00:15:48,440 --> 00:15:51,760 Speaker 1: But but from what I saw, they might recognize it 251 00:15:51,800 --> 00:15:55,560 Speaker 1: as sarcasm. They just don't understand it as a way 252 00:15:55,560 --> 00:15:59,200 Speaker 1: to employ humor. And that that comes at about age ten, 253 00:16:00,040 --> 00:16:05,280 Speaker 1: which happens to coincide when kids become obnoxious. Uh yeah, 254 00:16:05,320 --> 00:16:07,760 Speaker 1: and then it's all then you reap what you sow 255 00:16:08,040 --> 00:16:11,040 Speaker 1: as a parent because you're like I taught you this 256 00:16:11,400 --> 00:16:15,680 Speaker 1: method and UH, it's being used used against me like 257 00:16:15,760 --> 00:16:19,680 Speaker 1: a weapon. There was a study in France French speaking 258 00:16:19,720 --> 00:16:23,480 Speaker 1: kids in two thousand five that showed UH kids the 259 00:16:23,520 --> 00:16:29,240 Speaker 1: age of five understood sarcasm when they when the sarcastic 260 00:16:29,600 --> 00:16:33,280 Speaker 1: speaker was using intonation um. Where it took to be 261 00:16:33,440 --> 00:16:37,560 Speaker 1: over seven to be able to tell by context, and 262 00:16:37,720 --> 00:16:41,440 Speaker 1: context is when like I think the example they used 263 00:16:41,440 --> 00:16:44,320 Speaker 1: in the article was if you're like having a longer 264 00:16:44,400 --> 00:16:48,560 Speaker 1: conversation about UH family member being a bad gift giver, 265 00:16:49,120 --> 00:16:50,880 Speaker 1: and then at the very end you say, but I 266 00:16:50,920 --> 00:16:54,680 Speaker 1: love my sweater that they got me, and maybe see, 267 00:16:54,720 --> 00:16:57,880 Speaker 1: like I said it even sort of regular, but contextually 268 00:16:58,120 --> 00:17:00,600 Speaker 1: it would still be sarcastic. I don't know, Like even 269 00:17:00,640 --> 00:17:03,480 Speaker 1: in that example, I just found it confusing to tell you. Well, 270 00:17:03,520 --> 00:17:05,000 Speaker 1: I guess it could be I was a little too 271 00:17:05,320 --> 00:17:07,119 Speaker 1: I sold it too well. It sounded yeah, it sounded 272 00:17:07,200 --> 00:17:11,800 Speaker 1: really genuinely earnest. Right, that's the slip. That's the slippery 273 00:17:11,800 --> 00:17:15,959 Speaker 1: SLOPO sarcasm, so um one of the other uh. In 274 00:17:16,000 --> 00:17:20,760 Speaker 1: addition to kids not necessarily getting sarcasm, people with dementia 275 00:17:20,920 --> 00:17:24,560 Speaker 1: or Alzheimer's um or brain lesions have been found to 276 00:17:24,640 --> 00:17:28,920 Speaker 1: not necessarily, um, get sarcasm. And if you stop picking 277 00:17:29,000 --> 00:17:31,920 Speaker 1: up on sorry sarcasm all of a sudden, Uh, that's 278 00:17:31,920 --> 00:17:33,800 Speaker 1: a really good indicator that you might need to go 279 00:17:33,840 --> 00:17:37,199 Speaker 1: get an m R. I too sweet, Yeah for sure. Uh. 280 00:17:37,359 --> 00:17:40,199 Speaker 1: And not just that, they are all kinds of neurodiversities 281 00:17:40,880 --> 00:17:43,600 Speaker 1: that people can have that make them not able to 282 00:17:43,600 --> 00:17:46,760 Speaker 1: pick up on sarcasm. I know that sometimes people with 283 00:17:46,800 --> 00:17:52,320 Speaker 1: autism have difficulty understanding sarcasm. Um. They might take things 284 00:17:52,320 --> 00:17:56,159 Speaker 1: a little more literally then uh, neurotypical people might. So 285 00:17:57,000 --> 00:18:00,480 Speaker 1: it's you know, you gotta know who you're dealing with, um, 286 00:18:00,480 --> 00:18:03,080 Speaker 1: when you're throwing sarcasm around and being sensitive that kind 287 00:18:03,080 --> 00:18:06,679 Speaker 1: of thing, right for sure. So um, So people with 288 00:18:06,720 --> 00:18:10,840 Speaker 1: autism are famously kind of associated with an inability to 289 00:18:11,000 --> 00:18:14,640 Speaker 1: detect sarcasm. And from what I've seen, that's not really 290 00:18:14,720 --> 00:18:17,240 Speaker 1: the best way to put it. That they that many 291 00:18:17,600 --> 00:18:24,160 Speaker 1: people with autism can detect a detect sarcasm, use sarcasm um, 292 00:18:24,320 --> 00:18:27,400 Speaker 1: some find it funny, Others can recognize it but don't 293 00:18:27,400 --> 00:18:31,360 Speaker 1: necessarily find it funny. Um. But there's different I don't 294 00:18:31,359 --> 00:18:33,560 Speaker 1: know if they're competing or not. There's different theories as 295 00:18:33,560 --> 00:18:37,520 Speaker 1: to why that's the case. It supposedly UM. People with 296 00:18:37,560 --> 00:18:42,040 Speaker 1: autism tend to use more literal thinking than UM. The 297 00:18:42,760 --> 00:18:47,399 Speaker 1: kind of UM, well, let me just say, sarcasm is 298 00:18:47,480 --> 00:18:51,000 Speaker 1: known as a form of unplaine speaking, along with some 299 00:18:51,080 --> 00:18:54,000 Speaker 1: other kinds like UM forced politeness, where you like, are 300 00:18:54,119 --> 00:18:57,120 Speaker 1: nice as somebody who who's got you hate UM are 301 00:18:57,200 --> 00:19:02,920 Speaker 1: using aphorisms UM or ritual language like when you say 302 00:19:03,040 --> 00:19:04,960 Speaker 1: I'm fine when somebody asks you how you're doing, even 303 00:19:04,960 --> 00:19:08,240 Speaker 1: though you're not fine. UM. Sarcasm falls under that. It's 304 00:19:08,240 --> 00:19:12,400 Speaker 1: it's not saying what you mean directly. And so if 305 00:19:12,480 --> 00:19:16,360 Speaker 1: people with autism tend to use direct thinking and literal thinking, 306 00:19:17,040 --> 00:19:20,719 Speaker 1: if you use indirect or unplane speaking, it's gonna be 307 00:19:20,760 --> 00:19:22,600 Speaker 1: hard for them to pick up on. They're gonna take 308 00:19:22,640 --> 00:19:25,200 Speaker 1: it at its literal meaning, they might not pick up 309 00:19:25,200 --> 00:19:28,639 Speaker 1: on the sarcasm um. And so that that kind of 310 00:19:28,800 --> 00:19:33,400 Speaker 1: tend that UM tendency to think literally combined with UH 311 00:19:33,440 --> 00:19:37,280 Speaker 1: an undeveloped theory of mind, which is where you can 312 00:19:37,400 --> 00:19:40,000 Speaker 1: put yourself in the other person's shoes and imagine what 313 00:19:40,040 --> 00:19:43,560 Speaker 1: they're thinking easily, which is what sarcasm requires you to do, 314 00:19:43,640 --> 00:19:45,879 Speaker 1: because they're saying something different, but you know that's not 315 00:19:45,920 --> 00:19:48,720 Speaker 1: what they mean, and that requires that you go into 316 00:19:48,720 --> 00:19:52,440 Speaker 1: their mind and tool around. Those two things combined tend 317 00:19:52,480 --> 00:19:55,480 Speaker 1: to explain why people with autism are kind of thought 318 00:19:55,560 --> 00:20:02,200 Speaker 1: of as not detecting sarcasm. You got a job, Okay, thanks? Thanks. 319 00:20:02,800 --> 00:20:05,120 Speaker 1: If I had rainbow suspenders on right now, I would 320 00:20:05,119 --> 00:20:08,320 Speaker 1: have just snapped him after them. I actually had those 321 00:20:08,320 --> 00:20:11,080 Speaker 1: when I was a kid. I wanted those for a 322 00:20:11,320 --> 00:20:14,160 Speaker 1: long time. Yeah, I mean it was the whole Mork 323 00:20:14,200 --> 00:20:16,160 Speaker 1: and mindy thing. I even had the buttons on them, 324 00:20:16,160 --> 00:20:19,880 Speaker 1: and I wore the khaki pants. I did my best 325 00:20:19,920 --> 00:20:23,600 Speaker 1: to beat work from work. Yeah, so Morks suspenders are 326 00:20:23,600 --> 00:20:29,159 Speaker 1: obviously primo. But there's an overlooked vest, a puffy vest 327 00:20:29,240 --> 00:20:30,879 Speaker 1: that he wears in the credits when they're on the 328 00:20:30,920 --> 00:20:34,639 Speaker 1: football field that I would say even top the rainbow suspenders. 329 00:20:35,080 --> 00:20:37,800 Speaker 1: I would love to get my hands on that. Yeah, 330 00:20:37,800 --> 00:20:39,840 Speaker 1: looking back, I was just trying to be in work 331 00:20:39,880 --> 00:20:46,280 Speaker 1: from work, but I was dork from dork. I don't 332 00:20:46,280 --> 00:20:49,800 Speaker 1: have any pictures of that, unfortunately. Can you mention wearing 333 00:20:49,840 --> 00:20:54,080 Speaker 1: those with like a spinning bow time like now? No, 334 00:20:54,320 --> 00:20:58,520 Speaker 1: especially as a kid like I don't know about this guy, 335 00:20:58,600 --> 00:21:02,760 Speaker 1: but this kid wearing that you'd be all right, Uh, 336 00:21:02,800 --> 00:21:04,800 Speaker 1: if you're talking about the brain. That was a study 337 00:21:04,800 --> 00:21:08,280 Speaker 1: in two thousand five that, um, and this kind of 338 00:21:08,280 --> 00:21:11,439 Speaker 1: stuff is always I feel like we just have to 339 00:21:11,440 --> 00:21:14,239 Speaker 1: say it, even though people are like, Okay, those are 340 00:21:14,280 --> 00:21:16,439 Speaker 1: the three parts of the brain. Thinks nothing to me. 341 00:21:17,520 --> 00:21:20,600 Speaker 1: But the three parts the language cortex and the left hemisphere, 342 00:21:20,680 --> 00:21:23,560 Speaker 1: the frontal lobes and the right hemisphere and the right 343 00:21:24,200 --> 00:21:29,640 Speaker 1: the right ventro medial prefrontal cortex. You're gonna hear the comment, 344 00:21:30,200 --> 00:21:33,480 Speaker 1: and your language cortex kicks in and understands the literal 345 00:21:33,520 --> 00:21:36,920 Speaker 1: meaning great weather. Right. Then the frontal lobe and the 346 00:21:37,000 --> 00:21:41,080 Speaker 1: right hemisphere have the context it's raining. And then that 347 00:21:41,200 --> 00:21:44,600 Speaker 1: right ventro medial prefrontal cortex puts the two together and 348 00:21:44,600 --> 00:21:48,760 Speaker 1: it goes sarcasm dummy, right, and the laugh region goes 349 00:21:48,800 --> 00:21:53,840 Speaker 1: bananas down the laugh region. It's sometimes it can be funny, 350 00:21:53,920 --> 00:21:56,040 Speaker 1: but it's you've got to really be good at it. 351 00:21:56,640 --> 00:22:00,520 Speaker 1: So um, Chuck, I was talking about how sarcasm qualifies 352 00:22:00,520 --> 00:22:03,439 Speaker 1: as unplane speaking. That's like the general umbrella that it 353 00:22:03,480 --> 00:22:07,560 Speaker 1: falls under, right, Um, and that the fact that it 354 00:22:07,720 --> 00:22:11,720 Speaker 1: is unplaine speaking where you can get a message across 355 00:22:11,760 --> 00:22:16,760 Speaker 1: just as easily directly saying the weather sucks today. What 356 00:22:17,040 --> 00:22:20,800 Speaker 1: is the point then, of using sarcasm, of saying great 357 00:22:20,840 --> 00:22:25,360 Speaker 1: weather today rather than this weather sucks today. Um. There, 358 00:22:25,400 --> 00:22:32,760 Speaker 1: and so linguists, researchers, um, you know, speech scientists, talkie doctors, 359 00:22:33,280 --> 00:22:36,000 Speaker 1: all these people together have have come up with this 360 00:22:36,040 --> 00:22:40,240 Speaker 1: idea that there must be some additional thing that's going 361 00:22:40,320 --> 00:22:43,919 Speaker 1: on there. Clearly that there is something gained by using 362 00:22:43,960 --> 00:22:49,240 Speaker 1: sarcasm over using the direct message that gets the same 363 00:22:49,280 --> 00:22:52,440 Speaker 1: point across, because sarcasm has got a little extra mustard 364 00:22:52,520 --> 00:22:54,840 Speaker 1: on it, and they've tried to get to the bottom 365 00:22:54,880 --> 00:22:57,920 Speaker 1: of exactly what that mustard is. And I'm sorry to 366 00:22:58,000 --> 00:23:01,119 Speaker 1: use mustard. I know you don't like it very much. Yeah. 367 00:23:01,160 --> 00:23:03,760 Speaker 1: And by the way, my dog might actually be barking 368 00:23:03,760 --> 00:23:05,879 Speaker 1: some in this episode and there's just nothing I can do, 369 00:23:05,880 --> 00:23:09,240 Speaker 1: and I think that makes it folcasy. We usually trying 370 00:23:09,240 --> 00:23:11,880 Speaker 1: to edit that out. But well, to see, um, there 371 00:23:11,720 --> 00:23:16,160 Speaker 1: are a couple of ideas on why people do it. Um, 372 00:23:16,200 --> 00:23:18,359 Speaker 1: Like when it's a purposeful thing and not just like 373 00:23:18,440 --> 00:23:22,520 Speaker 1: I'm trying to be funny or whatever. Um. Sometimes well, 374 00:23:22,560 --> 00:23:24,600 Speaker 1: sometimes it could just be as easy as like you 375 00:23:24,640 --> 00:23:27,720 Speaker 1: have a very hard time being straightforward with someone, and you, 376 00:23:27,840 --> 00:23:29,560 Speaker 1: like you said, you use it to high, to use 377 00:23:29,600 --> 00:23:33,200 Speaker 1: it as a defense or something like that, Um, cloaking 378 00:23:33,320 --> 00:23:36,480 Speaker 1: something in a positive term. Oh, you did a really 379 00:23:36,480 --> 00:23:41,600 Speaker 1: great job with that episode, Josh. Um. That's sarcastic criticism, 380 00:23:41,760 --> 00:23:45,080 Speaker 1: whereas you can do the exact opposite. Uh, if you 381 00:23:45,160 --> 00:23:48,399 Speaker 1: and I were out. Um. I mean the example that 382 00:23:48,480 --> 00:23:50,919 Speaker 1: use in the article is fishing and I'm not catching 383 00:23:50,960 --> 00:23:53,760 Speaker 1: any fish and you're just like catching tons of fish. 384 00:23:53,960 --> 00:23:56,520 Speaker 1: I'm like, oh boy, you're really you really suck at 385 00:23:56,560 --> 00:24:02,040 Speaker 1: that fishing thing. That is a sarcastic compliment. And this 386 00:24:02,119 --> 00:24:04,280 Speaker 1: is all wrapped up under what's called the Tinge theory 387 00:24:04,280 --> 00:24:08,320 Speaker 1: of sarcasm, which is you're you're trying to mute either 388 00:24:08,400 --> 00:24:12,080 Speaker 1: your criticism or your praise of somebody by throwing like 389 00:24:12,280 --> 00:24:14,919 Speaker 1: slapping that mustard on it. Yeah, by tinging it with iron. 390 00:24:15,119 --> 00:24:18,080 Speaker 1: Hence the name. Right. There's also like a related one 391 00:24:18,480 --> 00:24:21,920 Speaker 1: that really just kind of looks at them the criticism 392 00:24:21,960 --> 00:24:25,000 Speaker 1: part um. It's called politeness theory, and it basically just 393 00:24:25,040 --> 00:24:28,200 Speaker 1: says that we use sarcasm to criticize because it makes 394 00:24:28,240 --> 00:24:32,000 Speaker 1: the criticism more palatable. And so you put that together, 395 00:24:32,200 --> 00:24:35,359 Speaker 1: and that is one interpretation of what sarcasm is. Therefore, 396 00:24:35,400 --> 00:24:38,600 Speaker 1: it's meant to boost, it's meant to mute either the 397 00:24:38,640 --> 00:24:42,040 Speaker 1: compliment or the praise or the criticism. But then there's 398 00:24:42,040 --> 00:24:46,119 Speaker 1: another one that's that basically says the exact opposite, that 399 00:24:46,160 --> 00:24:49,760 Speaker 1: sarcasm is meant to be like more biting, that it's 400 00:24:49,800 --> 00:24:53,320 Speaker 1: meant to really make the mustard spicy and put it 401 00:24:53,440 --> 00:24:57,320 Speaker 1: right near your eye. Yeah. I mean, here's the thing. 402 00:24:57,720 --> 00:25:02,480 Speaker 1: I think, I mean, get the value somewhat of using 403 00:25:02,560 --> 00:25:07,040 Speaker 1: sarcasm rather than God, if you're just straightforward about everything, 404 00:25:07,119 --> 00:25:11,520 Speaker 1: it's like it's sort of borish. Like if let's say 405 00:25:11,520 --> 00:25:14,200 Speaker 1: you're you were with the friend who you're hanging out 406 00:25:14,320 --> 00:25:16,440 Speaker 1: and your friend is always talking over you and you 407 00:25:16,480 --> 00:25:18,720 Speaker 1: don't get a chance to get a word in edgewise, 408 00:25:18,760 --> 00:25:21,480 Speaker 1: and you made a little sarcastic dig in front of 409 00:25:21,480 --> 00:25:23,639 Speaker 1: people like like, oh no, I'm sure they're gonna let 410 00:25:23,640 --> 00:25:27,119 Speaker 1: me speak any minute now. That person would go, all right, 411 00:25:27,200 --> 00:25:31,240 Speaker 1: I see what you're saying, Like it may be a 412 00:25:31,280 --> 00:25:34,199 Speaker 1: little bit of an a whole sarcastic comment. But what 413 00:25:34,280 --> 00:25:36,800 Speaker 1: if someone was always just like pulling you aside and 414 00:25:36,880 --> 00:25:39,480 Speaker 1: being like you just never let me speak, and it 415 00:25:39,520 --> 00:25:41,920 Speaker 1: would just really like, I think there are times to 416 00:25:41,960 --> 00:25:43,840 Speaker 1: be straightforward, but like that, but if you're like that 417 00:25:43,960 --> 00:25:47,040 Speaker 1: all the time, it's like, God, no one's gonna be 418 00:25:47,080 --> 00:25:49,359 Speaker 1: around you either yeah, or or even if you didn't 419 00:25:49,359 --> 00:25:52,439 Speaker 1: pull him aside at the table, if you were like, shuck, 420 00:25:52,480 --> 00:25:54,880 Speaker 1: I'm sorry, but it's my turn to speak. You you're 421 00:25:54,880 --> 00:25:58,080 Speaker 1: not letting me speak, so I'm going to speak now. Really, 422 00:25:58,119 --> 00:26:02,479 Speaker 1: just like straightforward happened to say, Yeah, that's gonna just 423 00:26:02,520 --> 00:26:04,480 Speaker 1: like just gonna be a record scratching. Like you said, 424 00:26:04,480 --> 00:26:06,000 Speaker 1: no one wants to hang out with you. And that's 425 00:26:06,000 --> 00:26:07,840 Speaker 1: what I was talking about the outside of this that 426 00:26:07,880 --> 00:26:10,920 Speaker 1: it's like the idea of just getting rid of sarcasm altogether, 427 00:26:10,960 --> 00:26:14,520 Speaker 1: there's something inherently wrong with that, because if use correctly, 428 00:26:14,560 --> 00:26:18,040 Speaker 1: sarcasm is a it's a social lubricant that just keeps 429 00:26:18,080 --> 00:26:22,160 Speaker 1: the party going. Yeah, totally, because at least everyone gets 430 00:26:22,200 --> 00:26:24,080 Speaker 1: a laugh. It might be at their expense a little. 431 00:26:24,240 --> 00:26:28,040 Speaker 1: They get the message, and you don't like stop the 432 00:26:28,080 --> 00:26:30,879 Speaker 1: fund of the party by make having a real serious 433 00:26:30,920 --> 00:26:35,520 Speaker 1: talk about interrupting people and then starting your point that's right, yeah, 434 00:26:35,560 --> 00:26:38,960 Speaker 1: and then everyone wants to hear what you gotta say, right. So, 435 00:26:38,960 --> 00:26:41,679 Speaker 1: so the other idea is that sarcasm is used to 436 00:26:41,800 --> 00:26:45,520 Speaker 1: make criticism more biting. That it's basically like this this. 437 00:26:45,960 --> 00:26:51,480 Speaker 1: If I did just say, you know, um, uh, you 438 00:26:51,560 --> 00:26:54,680 Speaker 1: know you didn't screw that up. Or no, if I said, 439 00:26:54,880 --> 00:26:57,320 Speaker 1: you know, Josh, you really screwed this episode up, I 440 00:26:57,359 --> 00:27:01,400 Speaker 1: can't even criticize you hypothetically. I'm sorry. If you said 441 00:27:01,440 --> 00:27:06,520 Speaker 1: to me, Josh, you really screwed this episode up, um, 442 00:27:06,560 --> 00:27:09,520 Speaker 1: I would be like, oh, well, go sit on it, Chuck. 443 00:27:09,840 --> 00:27:12,160 Speaker 1: But if you said, boy, you didn't screw that episode 444 00:27:12,200 --> 00:27:16,000 Speaker 1: up at all, Josh, I would be leveled for months, basically. 445 00:27:17,480 --> 00:27:19,640 Speaker 1: And I think that's what that interms. That's what that 446 00:27:19,760 --> 00:27:22,840 Speaker 1: theory is, the rival theory to Tinge theory, that that 447 00:27:23,320 --> 00:27:26,960 Speaker 1: it actually gives an even more emotional impact to criticism 448 00:27:27,040 --> 00:27:31,959 Speaker 1: than otherwise would have directly. Yeah, and I think not 449 00:27:32,000 --> 00:27:33,480 Speaker 1: to get too personal, but I think you and I 450 00:27:33,480 --> 00:27:36,040 Speaker 1: as partners have learned to deal with each other a 451 00:27:36,080 --> 00:27:39,240 Speaker 1: little more straightforwardly over the years that I think that's 452 00:27:39,240 --> 00:27:41,600 Speaker 1: how we both prefer to be handled by each other 453 00:27:42,760 --> 00:27:46,080 Speaker 1: as and that's with us, like it's different. For it's 454 00:27:46,119 --> 00:27:48,800 Speaker 1: not like I can be super sarcastic with other people, 455 00:27:48,880 --> 00:27:50,840 Speaker 1: but I know that that wouldn't be a very nice 456 00:27:50,840 --> 00:27:55,160 Speaker 1: thing to do to you. Does that make sense? Sure, 457 00:27:55,200 --> 00:27:58,440 Speaker 1: it makes sense. I think that you can be sarcastic 458 00:27:58,480 --> 00:28:01,040 Speaker 1: with me. Well I can't give it a try. Come on, 459 00:28:02,119 --> 00:28:09,439 Speaker 1: you got uh? I could be. I can be. Just 460 00:28:09,560 --> 00:28:13,159 Speaker 1: held their breath there, like is he about to level Josh? 461 00:28:13,640 --> 00:28:15,760 Speaker 1: I don't know. I can be, And I am sarcastic 462 00:28:15,760 --> 00:28:17,600 Speaker 1: with you, but only in like fun ways, like I 463 00:28:17,640 --> 00:28:20,760 Speaker 1: would know never a no now to not make try 464 00:28:20,800 --> 00:28:22,800 Speaker 1: and make a real point with you. I see, I 465 00:28:22,800 --> 00:28:25,320 Speaker 1: see what you mean. Yeah, And and they have like 466 00:28:25,320 --> 00:28:27,680 Speaker 1: a real conversation if it's really yeah, yeah, okay, I 467 00:28:27,720 --> 00:28:32,120 Speaker 1: got you, I got you? Sure yeah, oh so chuck. 468 00:28:32,200 --> 00:28:35,000 Speaker 1: The other thing about this, too, is there's a there's 469 00:28:35,040 --> 00:28:37,960 Speaker 1: another theory. It's like, no, this is everybody you're just overthinking. 470 00:28:38,000 --> 00:28:41,040 Speaker 1: This is just humor. Like people are dressing up and 471 00:28:41,120 --> 00:28:46,360 Speaker 1: otherwise boring or pedestrian point that they want to get 472 00:28:46,360 --> 00:28:48,560 Speaker 1: across with with just a little bit of humor. And 473 00:28:48,600 --> 00:28:51,120 Speaker 1: it's like sarcasm is an easy way to use humor. 474 00:28:51,160 --> 00:28:53,240 Speaker 1: Oscar Wilde said it was the lowest form of wit, 475 00:28:53,520 --> 00:28:56,560 Speaker 1: but the highest form of intelligence, and that second part, 476 00:28:56,720 --> 00:28:58,640 Speaker 1: I think he was referring to the fact that it 477 00:28:58,640 --> 00:29:02,000 Speaker 1: it takes some something and to make a sarcastic comment, 478 00:29:02,040 --> 00:29:04,560 Speaker 1: and it also takes them thinking to decode it too. 479 00:29:05,000 --> 00:29:10,120 Speaker 1: But it's not necessarily funny. Right, But that is supposedly 480 00:29:10,160 --> 00:29:12,719 Speaker 1: the humor, and it is another theory for why we 481 00:29:12,800 --> 00:29:15,360 Speaker 1: use sarcasm, that it's just it's just humor. And I 482 00:29:15,400 --> 00:29:19,320 Speaker 1: think from researching all this, all of those makes sense. 483 00:29:19,680 --> 00:29:24,920 Speaker 1: And social psychology, in typical fashion, has found um findings 484 00:29:24,960 --> 00:29:27,160 Speaker 1: that support all of them and none of them at 485 00:29:27,200 --> 00:29:31,080 Speaker 1: the same time. Should we take a break? Sure, all right, 486 00:29:31,120 --> 00:29:32,800 Speaker 1: let's take a break. We'll talk a little bit about 487 00:29:32,840 --> 00:29:34,600 Speaker 1: that and a little bit of the use of it 488 00:29:35,280 --> 00:29:38,280 Speaker 1: throughout history and culture and arts and stuff like that. 489 00:29:39,320 --> 00:29:57,440 Speaker 1: Right after this. Stuck Stuck. I don't know that you 490 00:29:57,480 --> 00:30:02,920 Speaker 1: know it's stuck Stuck. It's a great name, that's the 491 00:30:03,040 --> 00:30:07,040 Speaker 1: name of it. It's a great name. Alight with with 492 00:30:07,080 --> 00:30:11,560 Speaker 1: an X. All right. If you want to talk uh literature, 493 00:30:11,840 --> 00:30:14,840 Speaker 1: you can't get any more sarcastic at times than Mark 494 00:30:14,880 --> 00:30:20,880 Speaker 1: twain Um. Shakespeare was pretty sarcastic at times, Chaucer was 495 00:30:20,920 --> 00:30:24,560 Speaker 1: fairly sarcastic at times. They used an example in this 496 00:30:24,680 --> 00:30:29,000 Speaker 1: article of the Bible that I didn't read as sarcasm. 497 00:30:29,280 --> 00:30:31,160 Speaker 1: I thought it was a bit of a stretch myself, 498 00:30:31,760 --> 00:30:33,120 Speaker 1: and we'll go ahead and read it. This is from 499 00:30:33,160 --> 00:30:37,600 Speaker 1: Ecclesiasts eleven nine. Rejoice, young man, during your childhood, and 500 00:30:37,680 --> 00:30:40,640 Speaker 1: let your heart be pleasant during the days of young manhood. 501 00:30:40,640 --> 00:30:43,360 Speaker 1: And follow the impulses of your heart and the desires 502 00:30:43,400 --> 00:30:46,040 Speaker 1: of your eyes. Yet know that God will bring you 503 00:30:46,080 --> 00:30:49,720 Speaker 1: to judgment for all these things. That feels more just 504 00:30:49,720 --> 00:30:53,760 Speaker 1: sort of like a one to joke than sarcasm, I guess. So, yeah, yeah, 505 00:30:53,920 --> 00:30:55,800 Speaker 1: I think they were like, there's got to be something 506 00:30:55,840 --> 00:30:58,520 Speaker 1: in here, and that's the best they could come up with. Maybe, 507 00:30:58,800 --> 00:31:00,960 Speaker 1: like we gotta find some sark them in the Bible, guys. 508 00:31:01,840 --> 00:31:06,920 Speaker 1: Get um. The thing is with that, like that kind 509 00:31:06,920 --> 00:31:10,160 Speaker 1: of reveals like the one of the problems with sarcasm 510 00:31:10,200 --> 00:31:12,840 Speaker 1: is that when it's just written, especially it's written a 511 00:31:12,840 --> 00:31:17,440 Speaker 1: couple of thousand years ago, it's really difficult to discern sarcasm. 512 00:31:17,520 --> 00:31:21,479 Speaker 1: You have to use whatever cues you can get because 513 00:31:21,520 --> 00:31:23,600 Speaker 1: you've had a lot of the normal cue stripped, like 514 00:31:23,640 --> 00:31:28,240 Speaker 1: all those facial expressions, the intonation um, all of that stuff. 515 00:31:28,320 --> 00:31:30,680 Speaker 1: Is gone, and now it's just the printed words, so 516 00:31:30,720 --> 00:31:34,880 Speaker 1: basically what you have as context. Um. And for that 517 00:31:34,960 --> 00:31:40,080 Speaker 1: reason and because we are entering I guess we've already 518 00:31:40,200 --> 00:31:43,640 Speaker 1: entered this digital age where like the written word is 519 00:31:43,680 --> 00:31:48,240 Speaker 1: basically how we convey thoughts. Now, sarcasm has really taken 520 00:31:48,240 --> 00:31:52,200 Speaker 1: a beating lately because um, study after study keeps finding 521 00:31:52,240 --> 00:32:01,040 Speaker 1: that people grossly over overestimate how clearly their sarcasm is 522 00:32:01,080 --> 00:32:04,400 Speaker 1: coming through in like texts and tweets and emails and 523 00:32:04,440 --> 00:32:08,160 Speaker 1: stuff like that, and that it actually isn't being understood 524 00:32:08,200 --> 00:32:10,800 Speaker 1: as sarcasm on the other end, even though the person 525 00:32:10,840 --> 00:32:13,520 Speaker 1: who's sending the email or text thinks they're sarcasm is 526 00:32:13,560 --> 00:32:18,600 Speaker 1: clear as a bell. Yeah, just don't try to be 527 00:32:18,640 --> 00:32:21,160 Speaker 1: sarcastic in emails, especially for work. I think it's just 528 00:32:21,200 --> 00:32:24,360 Speaker 1: a good rule. It's like, don't even try because it's 529 00:32:24,400 --> 00:32:27,040 Speaker 1: not going to come through. And like you said, you 530 00:32:27,120 --> 00:32:30,000 Speaker 1: probably think it does. It's not obvious to other people. 531 00:32:30,640 --> 00:32:33,840 Speaker 1: If you're texting with friends and stuff, you can you 532 00:32:33,880 --> 00:32:37,760 Speaker 1: can do things like overspell things like say great or 533 00:32:38,240 --> 00:32:42,840 Speaker 1: you know, say insert the I roll emoji or even 534 00:32:42,880 --> 00:32:47,280 Speaker 1: say sarcasm in parentheses or something like that. The one 535 00:32:47,320 --> 00:32:50,720 Speaker 1: I've seen. It's the backslash s yeah. I mean that's 536 00:32:50,720 --> 00:32:54,160 Speaker 1: definitely no backslash. Which one is it? It's one of 537 00:32:54,160 --> 00:33:00,760 Speaker 1: the slashes. It's a backslash followed by an say so 538 00:33:00,840 --> 00:33:05,920 Speaker 1: backslash s um. Because you know, for the first I 539 00:33:05,920 --> 00:33:08,160 Speaker 1: don't I remember. For for the first few years of 540 00:33:08,200 --> 00:33:10,840 Speaker 1: like social media and texting and stuff like that, there 541 00:33:10,920 --> 00:33:12,880 Speaker 1: was a lot of talk about like how do we 542 00:33:12,920 --> 00:33:17,360 Speaker 1: indicate sarcasm and uh, and the emojis kind of help 543 00:33:17,440 --> 00:33:19,680 Speaker 1: solve that problem, but you can't do that in emails, 544 00:33:20,320 --> 00:33:23,000 Speaker 1: like professional emails. You're not gonna send an emoji I 545 00:33:23,080 --> 00:33:27,280 Speaker 1: roll emoji. No, don't do it. Okay, you might as 546 00:33:27,320 --> 00:33:30,120 Speaker 1: well put three exclamation points at the end of that's great. 547 00:33:31,040 --> 00:33:34,440 Speaker 1: Are we not doing that either? This is why I 548 00:33:34,480 --> 00:33:37,800 Speaker 1: don't email anybody. I don't know what I'm doing. But 549 00:33:37,840 --> 00:33:40,000 Speaker 1: when I do email them, it's at like ten o'clock 550 00:33:40,040 --> 00:33:47,360 Speaker 1: on a Saturday night. One of the cons of sarcasm um. 551 00:33:47,400 --> 00:33:49,520 Speaker 1: You know, it's, like you said, you can use it 552 00:33:49,560 --> 00:33:52,600 Speaker 1: and employ it in certain certain circumstances, but there are 553 00:33:52,640 --> 00:33:56,840 Speaker 1: people who just think it is a hostile act and 554 00:33:57,040 --> 00:34:00,200 Speaker 1: it is a way to say something and also let 555 00:34:00,240 --> 00:34:02,760 Speaker 1: yourself off the hook for saying that thing at the 556 00:34:02,800 --> 00:34:06,840 Speaker 1: same time, and that it is hostility veiled as humor, 557 00:34:07,000 --> 00:34:09,960 Speaker 1: is what uh how they put it in this article, 558 00:34:10,000 --> 00:34:12,800 Speaker 1: and you know, at times it very much can be that. Yeah. 559 00:34:12,840 --> 00:34:18,759 Speaker 1: So the UM like marriage counselors, um uh therapists, like 560 00:34:18,840 --> 00:34:23,600 Speaker 1: basically anybody who's who's dedicated to improving you as a 561 00:34:23,640 --> 00:34:26,840 Speaker 1: person in exchange for money, UM has kind of zeroed 562 00:34:26,920 --> 00:34:31,120 Speaker 1: in on the worst version of sarcasm. The the very 563 00:34:31,160 --> 00:34:34,880 Speaker 1: strict definition of sarcasm is not verbal irony, but as 564 00:34:34,920 --> 00:34:38,120 Speaker 1: an insult, as mocking somebody, as it being veiled hostility, 565 00:34:38,160 --> 00:34:41,440 Speaker 1: Like you're saying passive aggressiveness, that kind of thing, and 566 00:34:41,480 --> 00:34:44,240 Speaker 1: that that is no way to communicate, especially with somebody 567 00:34:44,280 --> 00:34:48,040 Speaker 1: that you care about or love, that you should be forthright, direct, 568 00:34:48,160 --> 00:34:50,960 Speaker 1: honest with them. They're not saying, like, you know, make 569 00:34:51,000 --> 00:34:54,359 Speaker 1: sure you cut out humor. They're basically saying, sarcasm isn't humor, 570 00:34:54,400 --> 00:34:56,719 Speaker 1: and if you if you think it's humor, like seriously, 571 00:34:56,760 --> 00:34:59,440 Speaker 1: like like, just go find better humor because there's plenty 572 00:34:59,440 --> 00:35:04,640 Speaker 1: of better stuff out there. He's right, and they so 573 00:35:04,719 --> 00:35:07,080 Speaker 1: they're they're basically saying, like kind of just cut that 574 00:35:07,120 --> 00:35:11,280 Speaker 1: out of your interpersonal relationships, at least again with people 575 00:35:11,320 --> 00:35:17,920 Speaker 1: you care about, because it probably does mask passive aggressiveness 576 00:35:18,400 --> 00:35:22,400 Speaker 1: and it's not doing anything but harming your your relationship. 577 00:35:22,560 --> 00:35:25,759 Speaker 1: And in fact, John Gottman UM, who is a very 578 00:35:25,800 --> 00:35:31,160 Speaker 1: renowned couples therapist and his wife are together, UM says 579 00:35:31,239 --> 00:35:35,600 Speaker 1: that UM sarcasm is one of the indicators of contempt, 580 00:35:36,520 --> 00:35:39,160 Speaker 1: along with eye rolling, along with like raising a lip 581 00:35:39,239 --> 00:35:41,560 Speaker 1: like kind of in disgust while you're talking. That that 582 00:35:41,600 --> 00:35:45,200 Speaker 1: if you pickiece together, that you you are signaling that 583 00:35:45,280 --> 00:35:48,279 Speaker 1: you have contempt for your significant other, and that contempt 584 00:35:48,320 --> 00:35:51,239 Speaker 1: is one of the He calls them the four horsemen 585 00:35:51,840 --> 00:35:54,239 Speaker 1: of UM of a marriage. That it's a it's a 586 00:35:54,280 --> 00:35:56,919 Speaker 1: really good predictor of divorce when couples speak to each 587 00:35:56,920 --> 00:35:59,399 Speaker 1: other with contempt, and one of those ways that they'll 588 00:35:59,400 --> 00:36:03,080 Speaker 1: speak to each other with contempt is through sarcasm. Yeah, 589 00:36:03,120 --> 00:36:05,719 Speaker 1: and it's just not a pleasant Like it's one thing 590 00:36:05,760 --> 00:36:07,799 Speaker 1: to be sarcastic here and there, But I have a 591 00:36:07,840 --> 00:36:13,440 Speaker 1: friend whose father, stepfather whether is the most sarcastic I 592 00:36:13,680 --> 00:36:17,440 Speaker 1: roy person I've ever met in my life to an 593 00:36:17,480 --> 00:36:21,080 Speaker 1: alarming degree. And it's just so like it's such a 594 00:36:21,120 --> 00:36:23,440 Speaker 1: turn off to be around this dude. You're like, I 595 00:36:23,440 --> 00:36:25,640 Speaker 1: don't want to have sex at all when I'm around, 596 00:36:27,880 --> 00:36:32,200 Speaker 1: certainly not with him. Uh yeah, he just and you 597 00:36:32,239 --> 00:36:34,799 Speaker 1: can tell like his marriage is suffered and there's he 598 00:36:34,920 --> 00:36:38,040 Speaker 1: can't be straight, and it's just a it's just a 599 00:36:38,120 --> 00:36:40,000 Speaker 1: chore to be around this guy. I hope he listens 600 00:36:40,040 --> 00:36:43,360 Speaker 1: to this and it's like talking about he's talking about 601 00:36:43,480 --> 00:36:47,399 Speaker 1: me and he changes his life. No, he would never 602 00:36:47,560 --> 00:36:51,320 Speaker 1: listen to this. He wouldn't give me dissatisfaction. So wow, 603 00:36:51,360 --> 00:36:54,200 Speaker 1: that guy. Huh yeah, he's that guy. So there there. 604 00:36:54,200 --> 00:36:56,680 Speaker 1: This is not to say that there's like, no, nothing 605 00:36:56,760 --> 00:37:00,239 Speaker 1: good about sarcasm. There. There's this one group of social 606 00:37:00,280 --> 00:37:03,960 Speaker 1: psychologists who made names for themselves by basically saying no, no. 607 00:37:04,040 --> 00:37:06,640 Speaker 1: We figured out that if you take a test of 608 00:37:06,719 --> 00:37:11,160 Speaker 1: creativity immediately after engaging in a sarcastic exchange, you're going 609 00:37:11,200 --> 00:37:14,480 Speaker 1: to score higher on that test of creativity than you 610 00:37:14,520 --> 00:37:17,960 Speaker 1: would had you not been involved in a sarcastic exchange 611 00:37:18,000 --> 00:37:21,040 Speaker 1: immediately beforehand, and that has been turned into in the 612 00:37:21,040 --> 00:37:26,520 Speaker 1: popular precess Sarcasm Boost Creativity across the Board. Yeah, I 613 00:37:26,560 --> 00:37:29,560 Speaker 1: guess the idea that it it challenge you challenges you 614 00:37:29,600 --> 00:37:31,839 Speaker 1: to think in a different way because it's not straightforward. 615 00:37:32,600 --> 00:37:36,000 Speaker 1: May have a little something to it, but I don't know, 616 00:37:36,080 --> 00:37:39,480 Speaker 1: it's a bit of a reach. There's other things. It 617 00:37:39,560 --> 00:37:42,719 Speaker 1: provides social bonding, like you and your friends, um, being 618 00:37:42,760 --> 00:37:46,080 Speaker 1: sarcastic about stuff, especially if you're being sarcastic about like 619 00:37:46,120 --> 00:37:49,600 Speaker 1: a shared target, yeah, like your teacher. Sure, it's a 620 00:37:49,600 --> 00:37:55,200 Speaker 1: great example. Um. It maintains social egalitarianism, like taking that 621 00:37:55,239 --> 00:37:57,680 Speaker 1: fisherman down a peg before he gets a big ego 622 00:37:58,080 --> 00:38:02,360 Speaker 1: for catching some fish. Um. And it can make you 623 00:38:02,400 --> 00:38:05,919 Speaker 1: seem apparently, as far as Harvard Business Review says, more 624 00:38:06,000 --> 00:38:10,360 Speaker 1: competent and intelligent at work. Um, which makes sense in 625 00:38:10,440 --> 00:38:12,520 Speaker 1: that you know, you do kind of have to be 626 00:38:12,840 --> 00:38:14,839 Speaker 1: sharp at the very least, you're paying a little more 627 00:38:14,840 --> 00:38:21,399 Speaker 1: attention probably if you deliver a sarcastic remark successfully. Right. 628 00:38:21,760 --> 00:38:24,520 Speaker 1: It's also risk by that you can also really come 629 00:38:24,560 --> 00:38:28,680 Speaker 1: off looking like like your friend's dad basically. Yeah, and 630 00:38:28,760 --> 00:38:33,640 Speaker 1: just professionally like that stuff back. That's my advice. Yeah. 631 00:38:33,800 --> 00:38:37,080 Speaker 1: So the one thing I saw was I came across 632 00:38:37,080 --> 00:38:42,960 Speaker 1: a k State I think it's Kansas State newspaper from 633 00:38:43,000 --> 00:38:46,680 Speaker 1: like two thousand eleven maybe where they were talking about 634 00:38:46,680 --> 00:38:51,520 Speaker 1: how sarcasm just totally pervades our society, and um, they 635 00:38:51,520 --> 00:38:55,520 Speaker 1: gave an example of how primed we are for sarcasm, 636 00:38:55,560 --> 00:38:59,480 Speaker 1: that when we encounter earnestness, like we we might be 637 00:38:59,560 --> 00:39:03,600 Speaker 1: confused set first in some situations. And the writer gave 638 00:39:03,640 --> 00:39:08,879 Speaker 1: this great example of Michael Richard's apology after he went 639 00:39:08,920 --> 00:39:12,920 Speaker 1: on that racial tirade at the laugh Factory and then 640 00:39:12,960 --> 00:39:15,960 Speaker 1: like a couple of days later went on Letterman and 641 00:39:16,680 --> 00:39:19,960 Speaker 1: the audience did not get Some of the audience who 642 00:39:20,000 --> 00:39:21,960 Speaker 1: hadn't heard about this, I guess, did not get that 643 00:39:22,040 --> 00:39:24,759 Speaker 1: this was like a real apology, and part of it 644 00:39:24,800 --> 00:39:28,160 Speaker 1: was his presentation that it seemed like he was doing 645 00:39:28,200 --> 00:39:31,480 Speaker 1: a bit kind of and the audience remember tittering, and 646 00:39:31,560 --> 00:39:34,360 Speaker 1: Jerry Seinfeld, who was like in the studio with Letterman, 647 00:39:34,400 --> 00:39:36,440 Speaker 1: had to turn to the audience and be like, stop laughing, 648 00:39:36,440 --> 00:39:39,040 Speaker 1: it's not funny, and like tell them like he wasn't, 649 00:39:39,120 --> 00:39:42,839 Speaker 1: that this wasn't sarcasm, that this was for real, and like, 650 00:39:42,880 --> 00:39:44,960 Speaker 1: if you go back and watch it, if you're a 651 00:39:44,960 --> 00:39:48,040 Speaker 1: fan of laughing at things that make you deeply uncomfortable, 652 00:39:48,120 --> 00:39:52,840 Speaker 1: like you will love that bit. It was. I remember 653 00:39:52,840 --> 00:39:54,759 Speaker 1: it at the time. I think it had a lot 654 00:39:54,760 --> 00:39:56,279 Speaker 1: to do with the fact that it was Kramer and 655 00:39:56,320 --> 00:39:59,200 Speaker 1: it was hard to just take him seriously. That's exactly 656 00:39:59,200 --> 00:40:02,560 Speaker 1: what it was. Yeah, man, what a mess. Yeah, it 657 00:40:02,640 --> 00:40:05,680 Speaker 1: was a massive made it even worse. Yeah, I'm gonna 658 00:40:05,760 --> 00:40:07,719 Speaker 1: I'm gonna go watch that again today. Actually I could 659 00:40:07,800 --> 00:40:13,040 Speaker 1: use some cringe humor. Yeah, um, have you got anything else? Oh? No, Josh, 660 00:40:13,080 --> 00:40:15,760 Speaker 1: I had nothing else. Yeah, I check. This went real well. 661 00:40:16,320 --> 00:40:20,400 Speaker 1: We did a great job. Man, I'm annoying myself even now, 662 00:40:20,440 --> 00:40:22,839 Speaker 1: So let's just send this to Since I said I'm 663 00:40:22,880 --> 00:40:29,920 Speaker 1: annoying myself, let's go to listen to ma'am. I'm gonna 664 00:40:29,960 --> 00:40:34,480 Speaker 1: call this Elton John song because why not? Hey guys, 665 00:40:34,520 --> 00:40:36,640 Speaker 1: love Love, Love your podcast and making making my way 666 00:40:36,640 --> 00:40:39,400 Speaker 1: through the whole catalog. I've been tempted to write, but 667 00:40:39,400 --> 00:40:41,319 Speaker 1: it didn't think I hadn't even interesting to say before. 668 00:40:41,480 --> 00:40:43,759 Speaker 1: You may not think it's interesting now. I do, though, 669 00:40:44,360 --> 00:40:46,560 Speaker 1: But what finally prompted me is when you were talking 670 00:40:46,600 --> 00:40:49,040 Speaker 1: about Elton John and the Soul Train episode so long ago, 671 00:40:49,680 --> 00:40:52,040 Speaker 1: Josh said he'd never heard the song burned Down the mission. 672 00:40:52,560 --> 00:40:55,080 Speaker 1: That made me think of the powerful song ticking from 673 00:40:55,080 --> 00:40:58,160 Speaker 1: Elmon John seventy four Caribou album. Song was way ahead 674 00:40:58,160 --> 00:40:59,719 Speaker 1: of its time in the way that it foretold many 675 00:40:59,760 --> 00:41:02,600 Speaker 1: future her events. I can't ever remember it being a popular, 676 00:41:02,640 --> 00:41:04,399 Speaker 1: well known song, but you've not heard it. Go listen 677 00:41:04,400 --> 00:41:07,120 Speaker 1: to it gives me chills every time I hear it. 678 00:41:07,640 --> 00:41:10,880 Speaker 1: Keep up the good work, guys. And this is from 679 00:41:11,080 --> 00:41:15,239 Speaker 1: Dinah Clay Melvin in Fort Worth, Texas. And I went 680 00:41:15,280 --> 00:41:18,320 Speaker 1: back and looked at the lyrics and dude Ticking is 681 00:41:18,360 --> 00:41:24,680 Speaker 1: a song about a uh an aggressive ticking time bomb, 682 00:41:24,880 --> 00:41:31,080 Speaker 1: white male shooter from ninety four, and it's all right there. 683 00:41:31,120 --> 00:41:33,719 Speaker 1: I I'm assuming Bernie Taupin wrote it. I'm not. I 684 00:41:33,760 --> 00:41:34,960 Speaker 1: didn't look it up, but I think he was kind 685 00:41:34,960 --> 00:41:38,440 Speaker 1: of writing all of his stuff back then. Who Bernie Taupin? 686 00:41:39,280 --> 00:41:42,680 Speaker 1: Oh you do? That's a referential joke to another episode 687 00:41:42,719 --> 00:41:45,200 Speaker 1: from the conversation we had. I guess probably in the 688 00:41:45,239 --> 00:41:48,800 Speaker 1: episode that this guy is talking about oh boy um. 689 00:41:48,840 --> 00:41:50,959 Speaker 1: But yeah, it's it's interesting to go back and listen 690 00:41:50,960 --> 00:41:55,719 Speaker 1: to that song from early nineteen seventies. Of and of 691 00:41:55,760 --> 00:41:57,279 Speaker 1: course it wasn't a big hit like she said, but 692 00:41:57,440 --> 00:41:59,920 Speaker 1: it's a I don't know, it's just interesting to hear 693 00:42:00,040 --> 00:42:02,359 Speaker 1: that and be like, man, you can't. You couldn't write 694 00:42:02,360 --> 00:42:05,920 Speaker 1: a song that on the nose today. So there, he 695 00:42:06,000 --> 00:42:07,960 Speaker 1: wasn't the only one who was predicting that at the time. 696 00:42:08,000 --> 00:42:10,799 Speaker 1: Like Stephen King had a short story about a kid 697 00:42:10,880 --> 00:42:13,440 Speaker 1: who comes in and like just shoots up his school, 698 00:42:13,480 --> 00:42:16,920 Speaker 1: and it's basically it's like this teenage revenge fantasy, but 699 00:42:17,000 --> 00:42:20,839 Speaker 1: it was exactly what ended up happening. Like twenty years later, 700 00:42:21,040 --> 00:42:25,520 Speaker 1: he wrote that I can't remember what that one was called, um, 701 00:42:25,560 --> 00:42:28,840 Speaker 1: and then there's like, um, remember falling Down that movie 702 00:42:28,840 --> 00:42:32,160 Speaker 1: with Michael Douglas from The Ladies that was basically about 703 00:42:32,200 --> 00:42:36,000 Speaker 1: that as well. Yeah, um, so yeah, I could see. 704 00:42:36,200 --> 00:42:38,160 Speaker 1: I just want to make sure we don't give Elton 705 00:42:38,239 --> 00:42:40,760 Speaker 1: John undue credit here is kind of what I'm going after. 706 00:42:41,360 --> 00:42:46,360 Speaker 1: Oh man, okay, you're classic beef with Elton John. Alright, 707 00:42:46,400 --> 00:42:48,400 Speaker 1: so I think we're at the end of this episode, 708 00:42:48,400 --> 00:42:52,040 Speaker 1: aren't we. I hope we are, all right. While it 709 00:42:52,120 --> 00:42:54,080 Speaker 1: was a little bit of short stuff crossover right there, 710 00:42:54,120 --> 00:42:56,560 Speaker 1: So let's let's end this as we normally do. If 711 00:42:56,560 --> 00:42:58,680 Speaker 1: you want to get in touch with us, like Diana did, 712 00:42:59,400 --> 00:43:02,080 Speaker 1: h you can send us an email to Stuff Podcast 713 00:43:02,160 --> 00:43:07,560 Speaker 1: at iHeart Radio dot com Stuff you Should Know is 714 00:43:07,560 --> 00:43:10,440 Speaker 1: a production of I heart Radio. For more podcasts my 715 00:43:10,480 --> 00:43:13,920 Speaker 1: heart Radio, visit the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or 716 00:43:13,920 --> 00:43:18,560 Speaker 1: wherever you listen to your favorite shows. H