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Speaker 1: What what Robert Evans, this has been Behind the Bastards

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Speaker 1: a podcast opened? Are we are? Is that it was

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Speaker 1: the whole episode wide. You want to try you want

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Speaker 1: to try again. We don't do second takes. The amateur

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Speaker 1: operation you run, you might do things like second takes

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Speaker 1: and proper introduction, but here we just go what's a

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Speaker 1: tonally and then trail off for several seconds of dead

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Speaker 1: air like the pros oh Man, that's called cinema veritate. Tom,

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Speaker 1: That's how that works. I know what that term meets. What?

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Speaker 1: What is? This? Is? This show? What's happening? This is

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Speaker 1: Behind the Bastards Episode two on our episode about the

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Speaker 1: men who built the right wing media land Escape and

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Speaker 1: are consequently ratcheting our world ever closer to calamity. Tom Ryan,

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Speaker 1: Robert is your name is of all the Rymans I know,

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Speaker 1: certainly the thomast and as the riemannist of the Toms

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Speaker 1: that I know? Um, Tom, you are co founder co

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Speaker 1: host of the game Fully Unemployed podcast network, which people

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Speaker 1: patreon you right for Collider, and you are about to

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Speaker 1: listen to a lot of really really unpleasant clips of

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Speaker 1: people that are just not very nice. I woke up

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Speaker 1: this morning and I was thinking, Man, I hope before

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Speaker 1: the sun sets on this day, I get to hear

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Speaker 1: a bunch of ship heads have terrible opinions. Tom, I

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Speaker 1: heard your prayers. I am here to answer them. I

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Speaker 1: texted them to you. Yeah, and it's they're They're usually

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Speaker 1: a lot more erotic than this, But I'll take it, Tom.

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Speaker 1: It would take years, by some kind. It's more than

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Speaker 1: a decade before Joe Pine would have a true successor.

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Speaker 1: He was so far ahead of his time that it

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Speaker 1: was not until the nineteen eighties he died in nineteen

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Speaker 1: seventy that the media landscape was truly ready for someone

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Speaker 1: to pick up the torch seems like the wrong word,

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Speaker 1: like the word yeah yeah. The first man to follow

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Speaker 1: in his wake was Wally George. Have you heard of

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Speaker 1: Wally George? No? And I usually I'm usually pretty up

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Speaker 1: on my wallis, so yeah, no. No, he's not of

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Speaker 1: all the Walies, but one of the most consequential of

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Speaker 1: the Wallies. So. George Walter Perch was born on December fourth,

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Speaker 1: nineteen thirty one, in Oakland, California. His father owned a

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Speaker 1: small shipping company. His mother, Eugenia, had been a vaudeville

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Speaker 1: performer and a child actress in Hollywood. She'd started Western's

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Speaker 1: opposite cowboy actors whose names have apparently been forgotten to

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Speaker 1: time because they were not Val Kilmer and Tombstone so

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Speaker 1: who gives a ship? Wally's and most of his childhood

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Speaker 1: and Sam Mateo. But when he was in high school

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Speaker 1: his parents divorced and his mother moved to Hollywood where

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Speaker 1: he finished his education. Tom who is the who is

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Speaker 1: the who was the sheriff in Deadwood? Timothy the old fan? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: Timothy Oilefant. That's the other one. That's the other cowboy,

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Speaker 1: Val Kilmer, Timothy Oilefant. That's all those are the only

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Speaker 1: Sam Elliott, Sam Elliott. Yeah, of course Sam Elliott. So, um,

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Speaker 1: you're talking about Sam Elliott in in the Hunt for

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Speaker 1: Red October because he's honorarily a cowboy, even though he

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Speaker 1: never got to live out his Montana dreams. Right. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's it. That's Sam Neil. That's Sam Neil. Esa Christ,

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Speaker 1: Jesus Christ, Jesus Christ, don't do that very different extremely now.

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Speaker 1: I'll say this, I'll bet Sam Elliott appreciates ducks too.

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Speaker 1: Sam's a duck. That's his best friend. I bet Sam

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Speaker 1: Elliott has has loved a duck or two in his life,

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Speaker 1: cared for a duck. He looked, those eyes looked like

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Speaker 1: a duck is brought at twinkleton or twice. Yeah, Ben,

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Speaker 1: you can't smile the way Sam Elliott smiles unless you've

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Speaker 1: been friendly with the duck. There's a duck in that life.

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Speaker 1: I can tell it's a duck in that man's heart

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Speaker 1: was somewhere in there. So Wally spends most of his

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Speaker 1: childhood in San Mateo. But when he's in high school,

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Speaker 1: his parents divorce, and that's not common in the forties, Right,

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Speaker 1: It's got to be a great marriage for that to

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Speaker 1: be happening in the forties. Alternatively, maybe it's the two

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Speaker 1: parents who are uncommonly aware of how bad a toxic

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Speaker 1: union can be for a kid. I don't really know

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Speaker 1: what the case was. I'm going to guess it was

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Speaker 1: a really unpleasant situation, judging by the probably, I don't think.

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Speaker 1: I don't think no fault divorces exist yet existed yet

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Speaker 1: in California. So you had to like sue for like

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Speaker 1: a reason. Yeah, you had to fistfight a judge to

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Speaker 1: get that fight. Yeah. Um, so his mother moves to Hollywood,

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Speaker 1: where he finishes his education. He was immediately drawn to

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Speaker 1: the entertainment industry, obviously his family's involved in it. Um.

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Speaker 1: At age fourteen, he gets a gig working as a

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Speaker 1: DJ and an AM radio station in Glendale. Prior to this,

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Speaker 1: Wally had been a stutterer, just like Joe Pine. I

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Speaker 1: do find that interesting. Both these guys are dudes who

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Speaker 1: stutter when their kids. Um. He credits his first radio

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Speaker 1: gig with curing him. He kind of like overcomes his

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Speaker 1: speech impediment on the job, um, which I did with

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Speaker 1: carpal tunnel syndrome. Now. He subsequently worked at bit gigs

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Speaker 1: at other local radio stations. He held ambitions to write

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Speaker 1: for television, and in his early twenties he did write

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Speaker 1: one episode if the TV show Bonanza. Okay, alrighte, good work.

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Speaker 1: That's a real TV show. After we listen, after we

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Speaker 1: listen to this, after we record this, I'm gonna have

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Speaker 1: to go watch that Episode's gonna see if anything pops

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Speaker 1: out to me if there's anything problematic about Wally George's

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Speaker 1: episode of Bonanza? Is there anything problematic about an episode

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Speaker 1: of Bonanza? That's the one. It's the one Bonanza episode

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Speaker 1: that in that in the middle has a seven minute

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Speaker 1: rant about Martin Luther King Jr. So, Wally got hit

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Speaker 1: first radio show, the Wally George Show on Katie Y

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Speaker 1: n f M in Inglewood. I was trying to do

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Speaker 1: my radio voice for that one came across. Yeah, thank you, Tom.

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Speaker 1: I love how not imaginative any of these people are.

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Speaker 1: It's always either just the My Name Show or the

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Speaker 1: My Name Report or the my Name file. That's the

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Speaker 1: only thing they have. Yeah, I think there's a degree

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Speaker 1: of it that's just like, look, you're gonna move, as

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Speaker 1: we we saw with Joe Pine. It's not uncommon. It's

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Speaker 1: just been like a year or less. At most of

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Speaker 1: the places you work. You're moving around all the time.

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Speaker 1: You're trying to build brand recognition. So at least you

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Speaker 1: want people to like know your name. You know um,

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Speaker 1: And to be fair, everybody doesn't. They don't say let's

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Speaker 1: watch tonight, so the Tonight Show. They say, let's watch Carson,

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Speaker 1: let's watch let's watch Harrison, let's watch Leno, let's watch

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Speaker 1: Uh No, there's no one else anyone. Yeah, that's it.

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Speaker 1: It's done now. Yeah, I mean, I have no animosity

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Speaker 1: towards Stephen Colbert, but my god, late night TV is

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Speaker 1: just a horrible idea. Um, we should know that, we

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Speaker 1: should accept it. It's it's it's it needs to go.

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Speaker 1: Craig Ferguson needs to be allowed to take it out

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Speaker 1: behind a barn and shoot it. That that's who should

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Speaker 1: do it. Craig crying like the boy and old yellers

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Speaker 1: and loads of shotgun's shotgun and did you so? He

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Speaker 1: gets his first show in nineteen sixty nine, which is

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Speaker 1: the year before Joe Pine dies. Um, and yeah, he

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Speaker 1: goes through, you know, he does, like they all do.

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Speaker 1: He runs through like a series of shows on different networks.

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Speaker 1: He produces and co hosts talk radio programs one with

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Speaker 1: l A's then mayor Sam Yourty for like nearly a decade. Um,

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Speaker 1: so he's in like talk radio for a while, but

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Speaker 1: kind of a respectable turn of talk radio. Um. He

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Speaker 1: starts his own radio show and it does well enough

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Speaker 1: that he's able to Uh. In nineteen seventy nine, he

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Speaker 1: starts his own talk radio show again. Um, and this

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Speaker 1: one does well enough that he's able to launch his

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Speaker 1: own TV show off of it, called hot Seat, which

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Speaker 1: first airs in nineteen eighty three. And an independent radio

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Speaker 1: station in Anaheim, California. Three is a year before Rush

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Speaker 1: Limboss started his first political radio show UM and a

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Speaker 1: decade before the first episode of the Jerry Springer Show.

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Speaker 1: In nineteen Hot Seat with Wally George would include elements

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Speaker 1: from both of these later shows. From an article in

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Speaker 1: Timeline Quote, George had a way of rilling even the

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Speaker 1: most collected and intelligent guests. In his first year, for instance,

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Speaker 1: George invited then a c l U lawyer and later

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Speaker 1: journalist Jeff Cohen to talk about police brutality and surveillance

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Speaker 1: of lawful, politically motivated organizations. At first, Cohen's responses to

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Speaker 1: questions like why do you want to handcuff the police

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Speaker 1: department from catching criminals seemed prepared, choreographed, But after a

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Speaker 1: few minutes the interview intensifies. Both raised their voices, the

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Speaker 1: audience clatters and gesticulates. George interjects with an age old challenge,

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Speaker 1: I have nothing to hide, so what do I care

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Speaker 1: if police watch me? The audience braise with joy. But

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Speaker 1: for all his cruel, bravado and personal attacks, George consistently

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Speaker 1: stumbled when the tables were turned. His ideology was full

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Speaker 1: of contradictions. In one episode, he spits, I say, Martin

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Speaker 1: Luther King does not deserve a national holiday in his name.

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Speaker 1: There are many more Americans who deserve it a heck

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Speaker 1: of a lot more so. That's the kind of guy

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Speaker 1: he is. We're no longer like the genteel playing it

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Speaker 1: being polite kind of guy. Um. He's He's very much

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Speaker 1: a recognizable sort of right wing media figure. Yeah. Keeps

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Speaker 1: keeping it authentically asshole. Yeah, keeping it authentically asshole. Um.

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Speaker 1: In November of nineteen eighty three, while he earned his

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Speaker 1: first national news story when he's so irritated his guest

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Speaker 1: Blaze bond Pain, a pacifist in Human Rights Act rules.

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Speaker 1: That is a good name right now. The short version

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Speaker 1: of the stories that Blaze got angry and flipped Wally's desk.

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Speaker 1: He had to be escorted out by security. That sounds

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Speaker 1: like something a person named Blaze would do. It does

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Speaker 1: it does because he's a Blaze man. He's full of fire.

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Speaker 1: Sounds like an American clamator. It's gonna flip pacifically like

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Speaker 1: while he gets like a pacifist activist to flip his

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Speaker 1: desk on TV desk never really happened before? Is like

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Speaker 1: a huge deal, Like this is the first Horoldo getting

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Speaker 1: hit with a fucking share you know. Um God, what

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Speaker 1: a great moment that was. I found an interview with

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Speaker 1: Blaze that sheds more light on this incident and what

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Speaker 1: came after. Because this incident really like you could draw

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Speaker 1: a direct line from this to Jerry Springer. I'm sorry,

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Speaker 1: what year was this again? This is er starts, um,

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Speaker 1: and this is really like this, this, this chunk I'm

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Speaker 1: gonna read is interesting because it gives you. It gives

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Speaker 1: you a sense of the way in which Wally is

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Speaker 1: helping to give birth to not just the cultural space

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Speaker 1: that guys like Jerry Springer occupied, but like what reality

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Speaker 1: TV becomes. Um, So this is him. This is Blaze

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Speaker 1: talking about what happened after he flips that desk and

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Speaker 1: gets escorted off by security. Quote. He called me this

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Speaker 1: had to be nineteen eighty three and asked if I

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Speaker 1: could come on his program. It was right during Reagan's

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Speaker 1: Warren Grenada. In a phone conversation, he seemed just delightful.

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Speaker 1: I was in the background listening to his interviews just

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Speaker 1: before me, a Mexican American attorney, and Wally was just

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Speaker 1: insulting him with racial slurs and so on, and I

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Speaker 1: was quite irritated just hearing him operate. When it was

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Speaker 1: my turn, I went to the interview and he had

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Speaker 1: a large group of young people in the audience, and

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Speaker 1: just as he was getting started, I torn towards the

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Speaker 1: audience and I said, I hope you won't go and

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Speaker 1: die as the enemy in a place like Grenado where

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Speaker 1: you're not wanted. He got a little upset when I

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Speaker 1: made that comment. He came over and assaulted me and

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Speaker 1: battered me. He attacked me from behind. It was a

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Speaker 1: little difficult for a long standing boxer to not respond,

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Speaker 1: but I thought that would be a terrible thing to do.

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Speaker 1: So I looked at his desk and I saw there

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Speaker 1: was no one near it and no one that would

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Speaker 1: be harmed. So I just flipped the desk over and

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Speaker 1: walked out. I came home and I told my wife

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Speaker 1: and children how surprised I was, and within moments we

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Speaker 1: saw it on ABC, CBS, NBC. It was all over

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Speaker 1: the country. I think that particular episode had has been

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Speaker 1: played a thousand times across the country. I still see it.

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Speaker 1: It's amazing how it made an impact on TV. There

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Speaker 1: was no staging. However, after the security men ushered me

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Speaker 1: to my car, I went home and the following morning,

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Speaker 1: Wally called me and said, Blaze, we have a terrific

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Speaker 1: thing going here. We can do this all over the country.

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Speaker 1: I said, Wally, you're a charlatan and there will be

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Speaker 1: no further interviews, thank you. Wally doesn't believe in shit.

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Speaker 1: Wal Wally is just like, yeah, I'll bring this. I like,

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Speaker 1: I want him to throw ship. I want to like,

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Speaker 1: this is great TV. So that's more of the thing

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Speaker 1: that I was talking about last episode, where it's like,

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Speaker 1: is he genuinely getting pulled in this direction or is

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Speaker 1: he getting pulled in this direction because like this is

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Speaker 1: make this makes good TV? And Yeah, that's like the

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Speaker 1: guiding light of a lot of these chuds is that

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Speaker 1: they don't actually believe in a lot of things. If anything,

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Speaker 1: I just believe in whatever gets them the money, gets

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Speaker 1: in the attention. I think Joe Pine might have believed

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Speaker 1: in things. He certainly fought for something at one point. Um.

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Speaker 1: I Wally clearly doesn't like he's just happy to like yeah, um,

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Speaker 1: like the next day, like it was a pro wrestling match,

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Speaker 1: Yeah exactly, Like, yeah, we can do this, all of it,

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Speaker 1: and you can tear the country. So what the funk

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Speaker 1: are you talking about? Joe Pine is like not a

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Speaker 1: good person, not a nice person, pretty racist and bigot,

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Speaker 1: and I'm sure in a lot of ways, although I

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Speaker 1: doubt excessively for his time UM, which is not saying

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Speaker 1: anything good about him. It's talking about like the white

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Speaker 1: dudes in the nineteen sixties and his generation. We're pretty

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Speaker 1: fucking racist. But I don't think I wouldn't qualify him

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Speaker 1: as a bastard based on like the things he intentionally did.

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Speaker 1: Once we're at Wally George, We're we're in like the

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Speaker 1: like full bastard territory, like sweat, because Joe Paine is

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Speaker 1: a guy who's like willing to do things and like

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Speaker 1: drudge up, judge up controversy, but also can listen to

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Speaker 1: people and like has something he believes in UM and

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Speaker 1: is trying to get across with Wally George. It is

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Speaker 1: pure I'm into this right wing ship just for because

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Speaker 1: it's what it gets the rage views, it gets people angry,

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Speaker 1: gets people riled up. I don't care who I have

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Speaker 1: on I want folks to fight. I just want to

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Speaker 1: like tickle people's amygdala and make them angry. You know,

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Speaker 1: does he start selling brain pills forever? No? No, he's

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Speaker 1: not not to mine. O. Well, I don't know. Maybe

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Speaker 1: I I can't comprehensively say he never sold brain pills. Um,

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Speaker 1: I I cannot make that claim to a point of certainty.

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Speaker 1: Tom excited that that, like Alex Jones and like a

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Speaker 1: lot of the folks who came after, Wally George built

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Speaker 1: an audience that was cult like in its devotion. By

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Speaker 1: nineteen eighty four, an audience of mostly college age men

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Speaker 1: were waiting up to six months for their chance to

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Speaker 1: sit in his eight person studio audience. People would like

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Speaker 1: sign up for this ship way ahead of time. They'd

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Speaker 1: shout who and wear shirts with American flags on them,

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Speaker 1: roaring until he forced them to stop. Where Joe Pine

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Speaker 1: could be mocking and even cruel, as long as he

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Speaker 1: maintained an air of genteel politeness, Wally George was free

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Speaker 1: to scream, shout, and even strike people. He told one

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Speaker 1: interviewer in nineteen eighty four. They say that I'm a lunatic,

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Speaker 1: that I'm a maniac. But why do you have to

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Speaker 1: smile at your guests and be nice and let them

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Speaker 1: say what they want to say. In this, Wally completed

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Speaker 1: the transition from Joe Pine, a right wing firebrand whose

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Speaker 1: work was still firmly rooted in the outward civility of

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Speaker 1: the nineteen fifties, to modern right wing media. Wally would

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Speaker 1: not sit and listen to, for example, a trans woman

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Speaker 1: explaining her life. He had no interest in letting guests

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Speaker 1: say their peace. The central conceit of his show was

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Speaker 1: that left leaning guests would be allowed to show up

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Speaker 1: and try to make an argument, while Wally and his

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Speaker 1: audience harassed and assaulted them. I want to play this

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Speaker 1: segment from his show where he is a popular radio

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Speaker 1: d e j A on the DJ brings you two

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Speaker 1: albums to hand out to the audience. It was nineteen

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Speaker 1: four and he chastise and he chastises Wally for having

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Speaker 1: previously claimed the band were devil worshippers, which is an

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Speaker 1: argument Wally George made a number of times. Here's Wally's reply.

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Speaker 1: You said, you two a bunch of devil worships. They

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Speaker 1: are terrible that Christians three of the four that Chris,

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Speaker 1: you're saying, I'm wrong, You're wrong. Wally is never my God.

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Speaker 1: That's what he looks like to me, I don't want

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Speaker 1: any proof because he looks like Rick Flair with a

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Speaker 1: person balance getting we're getting one of the same time.

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Speaker 1: It looks like cracking down on what they call radio

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Speaker 1: shock radio. And I say it's about time. I say

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Speaker 1: the f c C should crack down. There's a lot

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Speaker 1: of nonstance, a lot of really filth and sexual innuendo

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Speaker 1: that little kids you're listening to. And I say, it's

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Speaker 1: about time at the FCC cracked down on these filthy

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Speaker 1: radio stations. All right, all right, that's enough of this clip.

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Speaker 1: So first off, he looks incredible. It looks incredible. He

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Speaker 1: looks the amazing thing about Wally looks like a carnival magician.

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Speaker 1: You you watch, he looks like a guy that ties

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Speaker 1: balloon animals. You watched thirty seconds of Wally George, and

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Speaker 1: every fake media figure from a Paul Verhoeven movie in

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Speaker 1: the nineteen nineties suddenly make because they're all him. They're

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Speaker 1: all Wally George. Like every media figure that like Gott

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Speaker 1: mocked in one of those like surreal nineties movies is

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Speaker 1: fucking Wally George. He looks like Julian Sands as a

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Speaker 1: TV preacher. He looks like if Julian sanj was a warlock. Yes, yes,

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Speaker 1: if a vampire bits Julian a Sanja's neck, he would tear.

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Speaker 1: It's incredible. He's in. For those of you who are

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Speaker 1: going to look at the picture. He has like shoulder

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Speaker 1: length white hair that can't be real. It's it's either

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Speaker 1: a wig or like so flat ironed that it just there.

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Speaker 1: Like he's got a white suit. He looks like Mr

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Speaker 1: White from the Venture Brothers, but not at I'll bite.

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Speaker 1: It's just an amazing, amazing commitment to a very specific aesthetic. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: he's like, this is my thing and I'm just gonna

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Speaker 1: blunt forced the nineteen eighties. A third of my body

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Speaker 1: weight is cocaine. It's he's he does. He looks like

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Speaker 1: somebody like he looks like the Shredder dumped Mutagen on

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Speaker 1: the Pilot cocaine. Yeah, like that Ian was a man.

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Speaker 1: That's so tom Yeah. Here's him talking to Larry Rice,

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Speaker 1: a same sex marriage advocate and an AIDS awareness activist.

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Speaker 1: Oh boy hooraye a gay pride parade. I say it

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Speaker 1: is very offensive. It is very offensive for gays to

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Speaker 1: be running around or groping each other in the park.

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Speaker 1: What do you think about that? I don't think I

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Speaker 1: don't think that. I don't think it's very fair for

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Speaker 1: you to make fun of people who's whose lifestyle is

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Speaker 1: not the way you want it to be. And I

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Speaker 1: think it's all it really. I think it's kind of sad,

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Speaker 1: you know, because like they don't hurt you what they do.

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Speaker 1: And you know, I'm down offense that you stupid, that

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Speaker 1: it's offensive and offensive. It's a lot fair, I'll tell

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Speaker 1: you what, because people like you, you're the people because

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Speaker 1: the problem people people who are gay. People who are gay,

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Speaker 1: they do very rough. They have it very rough in

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Speaker 1: this world, okay, because of people like you, And I

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Speaker 1: think this is very upset. I think that will make

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Speaker 1: it so hard for them to live that they have

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Speaker 1: a lot of like mental disorders and things. All right,

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Speaker 1: that's probably about enough of That's it's man, If you

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Speaker 1: guys listening can stomach looking up this clip, it's an

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Speaker 1: it's horrible his audience and they're just like huge nothing

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Speaker 1: but high school bullies, like screaming with He's said it's horrible.

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Speaker 1: He's just trying to get his point out, and he's

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Speaker 1: saying like this these completely rational things. Oh my god.

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Speaker 1: But it's also one of these a couple of things

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Speaker 1: that are interesting. Comparing Pine. Number one, you can think

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Speaker 1: back to Joe Pine, who gain I'm certain how very

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Speaker 1: regret restI views on on gay people, but asking with

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Speaker 1: genuine interest. Oh so someone who is a who's a

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00:20:05,440 --> 00:20:08,159
Speaker 1: transvestor isn't necessarily a homosexual. Oh that's interesting to me,

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Speaker 1: as opposed to Wally George, who just starts screaming at

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Speaker 1: how offensive like the thought of a gay person existing.

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Speaker 1: It's like his with his flaxen shoulder length, fair and

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Speaker 1: long sleeved turtleneck with a blazer, and he's screaming about

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Speaker 1: how gay Pride parade is offensive. Roger Stone vibes. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: he definitely has that Roger Stone would wear. He does

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Speaker 1: look like a disguise in a Bond villain wig. Yeah. Um.

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Speaker 1: And the other thing that's different is that, you know,

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Speaker 1: Joe Pine could be We played him being very rude

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Speaker 1: to some people, but also they were all people who

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Speaker 1: could go toe to toe with him rhetorically, like Krassner.

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Speaker 1: You know, obviously he didn't respect Krastner's media trained Krassner

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Speaker 1: was ready for what he got. You know he gave

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Speaker 1: as good as he got. This poor man Larry Rice.

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Speaker 1: Nothing against him because he's saying very reasonable things. He's

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Speaker 1: clearly not media trained. He's not, really he's not, and

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00:21:01,640 --> 00:21:04,119
Speaker 1: he's so you can say against him. The clip is

377
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Speaker 1: so upsetting because you can see it, like it's part

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Speaker 1: of why, it's part of like the bad faith of

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Speaker 1: like debate me, because the tactic is just to keep

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Speaker 1: shouting at you these things to keep you off topic.

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Speaker 1: And it's like, not only is this guy battling this

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Speaker 1: overbearing dipshit of a host, but the entire audience is

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Speaker 1: jeering at him the whole time. It's like, I can't

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Speaker 1: imagine being in that, like even if you are media trained,

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Speaker 1: like even if you are media trained, being in that

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Speaker 1: situations like Jesus, like, I can't. I can't find footing

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Speaker 1: to even make my argument. No one can do well

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Speaker 1: in that kind of an environment. But no, And it's again,

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Speaker 1: it's one of those things. I do think that like

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Speaker 1: Joe Pine was someone who did want to debate people

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Speaker 1: and would debate people and would go out of his

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Speaker 1: way to get people who he who could present themselves

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Speaker 1: well on television, even if what they were saying was like,

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Speaker 1: and I'm not gonna say that maybe this was comprehensibly

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Speaker 1: true of everything he did, but all of Wally George

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Speaker 1: is like it is nothing, but but this is it's

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Speaker 1: just hate. I want to point out that his little

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Speaker 1: turtleneck matched the wallpaper of his set. It did it.

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Speaker 1: He's got He's got a little behind him is a

400
00:22:11,119 --> 00:22:14,160
Speaker 1: framed photo of of of a Space shuttle taking off.

401
00:22:14,160 --> 00:22:17,680
Speaker 1: It just says USA at the bottom. So his set

402
00:22:17,800 --> 00:22:22,520
Speaker 1: is like a little boy's room, and it's I keep

403
00:22:22,560 --> 00:22:25,320
Speaker 1: bringing up Joe Pine, like positively, not to say nice

404
00:22:25,359 --> 00:22:27,479
Speaker 1: things about Joe Pine, and please don't take this as

405
00:22:27,560 --> 00:22:29,360
Speaker 1: like me trying to defend his legacy, but to point

406
00:22:29,440 --> 00:22:32,840
Speaker 1: like how badly things have degenerated, like sixteen seventeen years

407
00:22:32,920 --> 00:22:35,800
Speaker 1: dark the differences. Yeah, I'm sitting here trying to think of, like, man,

408
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Speaker 1: what happened. And you know that a lot of things happened. Yes,

409
00:22:40,400 --> 00:22:44,080
Speaker 1: between nineteen seventy and ninety, religious right became a political block,

410
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Speaker 1: which it wasn't when um, when Joe Pine was on

411
00:22:46,200 --> 00:22:48,359
Speaker 1: their the religious right was not a political block. That

412
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Speaker 1: didn't happen until seventy nine. Um. So yeah, it's just

413
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Speaker 1: it's a very bleak, but very clear. He's all slide downhill.

414
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Speaker 1: He's proto seven hundred Club too, just the way he looks,

415
00:22:58,000 --> 00:22:59,240
Speaker 1: the way he looks, I don't know if he was

416
00:22:59,280 --> 00:23:04,119
Speaker 1: proto when did this have an underclub? Stuff? That's true

417
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Speaker 1: solid nineteen sixty six, the seven hundred Club, all I

418
00:23:09,480 --> 00:23:14,320
Speaker 1: gotta give you that. Okay, Yeah, but Tom, you know

419
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Speaker 1: what did come before the seven hundred Club and we'll

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Speaker 1: be there long after. Um, I don't know, I don't

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Speaker 1: know you are. You can tell me the products and

422
00:23:23,040 --> 00:23:35,520
Speaker 1: services Tom, that support this podcast, solid, solid throat ad Man. Uh,

423
00:23:35,800 --> 00:23:40,320
Speaker 1: we're back, and we're we're not better than ever. We

424
00:23:40,440 --> 00:23:43,760
Speaker 1: just are continually sliding down hill. No, we're not even

425
00:23:43,760 --> 00:23:46,280
Speaker 1: We're not even better than Ezra at this point. We're

426
00:23:46,320 --> 00:23:49,560
Speaker 1: not now, Tom. Yeah, so let's talk some more about

427
00:23:49,560 --> 00:23:54,040
Speaker 1: that horrific interview UM with Larry Rice. Upset me. Yeah,

428
00:23:54,400 --> 00:23:58,159
Speaker 1: it's really upset it. And again it's the kind of

429
00:23:58,200 --> 00:24:01,159
Speaker 1: thing like you just didn't feel that way listening to

430
00:24:01,200 --> 00:24:02,920
Speaker 1: the Joe Pine clips, even when he was being a

431
00:24:03,000 --> 00:24:06,600
Speaker 1: ship head, not that kind of well, it's it's the

432
00:24:07,119 --> 00:24:10,480
Speaker 1: it's it's frighteningly close to a lynch mom. Yeah, yeah,

433
00:24:10,880 --> 00:24:13,320
Speaker 1: I think if he'd ordered them, they would have. Yeah.

434
00:24:13,359 --> 00:24:15,880
Speaker 1: It's it's really alarming. It's it's a it's very upset

435
00:24:16,040 --> 00:24:18,920
Speaker 1: clip to watch. It's really fucked up, and it gets

436
00:24:18,920 --> 00:24:22,560
Speaker 1: a lot worse. And he's sucking clown to It's like

437
00:24:23,920 --> 00:24:30,360
Speaker 1: the Stoker on vacation, fucking Wally George. It's a clown name,

438
00:24:30,480 --> 00:24:34,600
Speaker 1: that's a clown shoe name, Wally motherfucker. So he goes

439
00:24:34,600 --> 00:24:37,280
Speaker 1: on in that interview to say here in the United States,

440
00:24:37,280 --> 00:24:40,360
Speaker 1: we don't want perverts marrying each other. And then when

441
00:24:40,359 --> 00:24:44,120
Speaker 1: they start discussing AIDS prevention, he tells Larry, I don't

442
00:24:44,119 --> 00:24:46,359
Speaker 1: want these gay AIDS carriers to spread their disease to

443
00:24:46,400 --> 00:24:49,119
Speaker 1: all of us heterosexuals. People like you were spitting at me.

444
00:24:49,200 --> 00:24:52,240
Speaker 1: I could catch AIDS from you, just a mountain a

445
00:24:52,359 --> 00:24:56,320
Speaker 1: ship dressed in a terrible suit. Now, when it comes

446
00:24:56,359 --> 00:24:59,040
Speaker 1: to evaluating the appeal and the impact of Wally George,

447
00:24:59,080 --> 00:25:02,200
Speaker 1: I think this pass from that Timeline article does about

448
00:25:02,240 --> 00:25:06,040
Speaker 1: the best job possible. Quote hot seat com modified old

449
00:25:06,040 --> 00:25:09,879
Speaker 1: white man anger and gave it room to fester. George's

450
00:25:09,920 --> 00:25:12,960
Speaker 1: fury was the entire point. It gave audiences permission to

451
00:25:13,000 --> 00:25:16,440
Speaker 1: act out their bassist impulses. During the conservative Reagan era,

452
00:25:16,760 --> 00:25:19,440
Speaker 1: the allure of the show was merely having an outlet

453
00:25:19,440 --> 00:25:23,000
Speaker 1: for anger. Period it was a contractual yelling match with

454
00:25:23,080 --> 00:25:29,440
Speaker 1: the viewers invited. Ye that makes sense. Yeah, that all

455
00:25:29,480 --> 00:25:35,640
Speaker 1: ties together seems relevant. Um, gosh, somebody somebody else really

456
00:25:35,760 --> 00:25:39,280
Speaker 1: rose to prominence the eighties. Gosh, who was that? And

457
00:25:39,320 --> 00:25:42,200
Speaker 1: Howard Stern. This is a big major media figure. I'm

458
00:25:42,200 --> 00:25:47,560
Speaker 1: big decetious rush Limbaugh Yeah, Trump, Yeah, Trump, Yeah, this

459
00:25:48,040 --> 00:25:50,200
Speaker 1: is this is this is the era they're all. This

460
00:25:50,280 --> 00:25:53,600
Speaker 1: is where all all of them dickheads came from, all

461
00:25:53,640 --> 00:25:58,160
Speaker 1: those real pieces of ship. Um. Now, during his rise

462
00:25:58,160 --> 00:25:59,680
Speaker 1: to prominence, as we stated, there were a number of

463
00:25:59,760 --> 00:26:02,320
Speaker 1: dudes inhabiting a similar field. Rush Limbug gets on the

464
00:26:02,400 --> 00:26:05,040
Speaker 1: radio a year later. Don Imus and Howard Stern, who

465
00:26:05,040 --> 00:26:08,520
Speaker 1: are less offensive figures, not much less in the case

466
00:26:08,520 --> 00:26:11,119
Speaker 1: of don Imus, are starting around this period. But the

467
00:26:11,160 --> 00:26:14,440
Speaker 1: fact that Wally George worked most prominent, worked most prominently

468
00:26:14,440 --> 00:26:17,159
Speaker 1: on TV, giving his viewers and live audience as an

469
00:26:17,160 --> 00:26:19,840
Speaker 1: outlet to invent their rage and frustration on human beings

470
00:26:20,280 --> 00:26:23,240
Speaker 1: made them made him unique. In his nineteen again, it's

471
00:26:23,280 --> 00:26:25,119
Speaker 1: it's like half a lynch mob, and that's half of

472
00:26:25,160 --> 00:26:29,440
Speaker 1: the appeal Wally George does. In his nineteen ninety nine autobiography,

473
00:26:29,480 --> 00:26:32,679
Speaker 1: he coined the phrase combat TV to describe the thing

474
00:26:32,760 --> 00:26:35,840
Speaker 1: that he invented. And now that's like all news programs.

475
00:26:36,400 --> 00:26:40,800
Speaker 1: Um yeah, it's just bleak. One of Wally's most popular

476
00:26:40,840 --> 00:26:43,720
Speaker 1: guests was a special piece of ship named Tom Metzger,

477
00:26:43,880 --> 00:26:47,240
Speaker 1: the head of a Nazi organization called White Area in Resistance.

478
00:26:47,960 --> 00:26:51,119
Speaker 1: I suppose you could critique him as again like Joe Pine,

479
00:26:51,119 --> 00:26:53,720
Speaker 1: platforming a Nazi, and he is kind of doing that.

480
00:26:53,760 --> 00:26:57,000
Speaker 1: But Wally, I don't know. Wally can't be certainly can't

481
00:26:57,000 --> 00:26:59,800
Speaker 1: be accused of equivocating on Nazism because I'm gonna play

482
00:26:59,840 --> 00:27:02,520
Speaker 1: you a clip of that next. All across this great

483
00:27:02,560 --> 00:27:04,679
Speaker 1: country now in our eleventh year, and we have the

484
00:27:04,760 --> 00:27:14,760
Speaker 1: putres a batman villain. As I was about to say

485
00:27:14,880 --> 00:27:18,640
Speaker 1: before we went to our break, some of you don't

486
00:27:18,680 --> 00:27:22,680
Speaker 1: know what Tom Metzker has been involved in. I'm gonna

487
00:27:22,720 --> 00:27:25,919
Speaker 1: go back to that case up in Oregon where some

488
00:27:26,119 --> 00:27:30,760
Speaker 1: of Tom Metzker's followers went up to Oregon and they

489
00:27:30,920 --> 00:27:35,720
Speaker 1: beat a black man to death with do applaud that,

490
00:27:35,840 --> 00:27:40,359
Speaker 1: you idiot? They beat this black man to death with

491
00:27:40,520 --> 00:27:49,640
Speaker 1: baseball bats. Followers of Tom Metzker say, he sits there

492
00:27:49,720 --> 00:27:52,399
Speaker 1: with that, He sits there with that smug little grin

493
00:27:52,440 --> 00:27:55,240
Speaker 1: on his face because he doesn't get his hands bloody.

494
00:27:55,640 --> 00:27:59,600
Speaker 1: He sends out, wait, he sends out, he has henchman

495
00:28:00,000 --> 00:28:05,040
Speaker 1: at his followers to do his dirty work for him. Alright, alright, alright,

496
00:28:05,080 --> 00:28:08,880
Speaker 1: So it's very it's very very telling that he had

497
00:28:08,920 --> 00:28:13,160
Speaker 1: to tell somebody in the audience stop clapping. That's exactly right,

498
00:28:14,119 --> 00:28:17,040
Speaker 1: point out because he is certainly not in like to

499
00:28:17,080 --> 00:28:20,960
Speaker 1: the exynthity platforms. He's mostly screaming at him. Um. But

500
00:28:21,119 --> 00:28:23,480
Speaker 1: you can see again where things have gone that, like

501
00:28:23,960 --> 00:28:30,400
Speaker 1: stop his lapping, encouraging is bringing these people in Wally.

502
00:28:31,119 --> 00:28:35,080
Speaker 1: It's fascinating, but it's also there's something so bleak about

503
00:28:35,119 --> 00:28:37,920
Speaker 1: that too, because there are a lot of mostly horrible

504
00:28:37,920 --> 00:28:40,160
Speaker 1: things you can say about Wally, and I'm sure Tom

505
00:28:40,160 --> 00:28:42,560
Speaker 1: went on his show because he saw it as a platform.

506
00:28:42,600 --> 00:28:44,880
Speaker 1: But Wally never for a second pretended that this guy

507
00:28:44,920 --> 00:28:46,440
Speaker 1: need to be heard out. He just had him on

508
00:28:46,520 --> 00:28:50,200
Speaker 1: to scream at it um, which, again, as bad as Wally,

509
00:28:50,240 --> 00:28:52,320
Speaker 1: George just makes him better than a lot of right

510
00:28:52,320 --> 00:28:56,360
Speaker 1: wing media today, like even it's even gone hill downhill

511
00:28:56,400 --> 00:28:58,840
Speaker 1: since Wally George is the point I'm making, not trying

512
00:28:58,880 --> 00:29:02,840
Speaker 1: to like praise Wally George, but it's like the even

513
00:29:02,840 --> 00:29:05,000
Speaker 1: more than this cess pool. Yeah, and I don't know,

514
00:29:05,040 --> 00:29:07,720
Speaker 1: maybe like if fucking Richard Spencer he would have heard out.

515
00:29:07,760 --> 00:29:10,120
Speaker 1: I don't know, I don't He didn't often hear people out,

516
00:29:10,160 --> 00:29:12,000
Speaker 1: so I don't know that he would have invited anyone

517
00:29:12,000 --> 00:29:14,880
Speaker 1: on that. He couldn't have just screamed at um. But

518
00:29:14,880 --> 00:29:19,040
Speaker 1: but yeah, it's um, it's a little bleak um. That said,

519
00:29:19,320 --> 00:29:21,840
Speaker 1: he was very happy to capitalize off the outrage that

520
00:29:21,880 --> 00:29:25,000
Speaker 1: bringing a guy like Metzker on generated. I don't want

521
00:29:25,000 --> 00:29:27,440
Speaker 1: to be praising him for yelling at Tom Metzger. He's

522
00:29:27,440 --> 00:29:29,800
Speaker 1: doing it to make money. I want to quote from

523
00:29:29,800 --> 00:29:33,880
Speaker 1: an article on Wally by o C Weekly, Orange County,

524
00:29:34,040 --> 00:29:35,840
Speaker 1: which is, for those of you who do not know

525
00:29:35,960 --> 00:29:39,120
Speaker 1: the like the Republican one of the biggest Republican stronghold

526
00:29:39,120 --> 00:29:41,840
Speaker 1: in California. Pretty Much what made those hot seat appearances

527
00:29:41,840 --> 00:29:44,160
Speaker 1: by Metzger in the nineteen eighties and nineties so relevant

528
00:29:44,200 --> 00:29:46,480
Speaker 1: was just how clearly the lines between good and evil

529
00:29:46,520 --> 00:29:49,560
Speaker 1: were drawn. George wore the white hat literally, and Metzger

530
00:29:49,680 --> 00:29:51,200
Speaker 1: was the bad guy if there was no great to

531
00:29:51,200 --> 00:29:54,760
Speaker 1: be found, and the audience reaction corroborated those roles. George's

532
00:29:54,840 --> 00:29:57,880
Speaker 1: last interview with Metzger was around nineteen nine two, against

533
00:29:57,880 --> 00:30:00,320
Speaker 1: the backdrop of that year's l A Riots, and George

534
00:30:00,360 --> 00:30:04,080
Speaker 1: absolutely laid into Metzker. George repeatedly scolded Mesker for being

535
00:30:04,120 --> 00:30:06,600
Speaker 1: un American and referred to War as a bunch of

536
00:30:06,680 --> 00:30:10,040
Speaker 1: dumb Nazis. George kicked Metzker off his stage after an

537
00:30:10,120 --> 00:30:13,520
Speaker 1: unprecedented but understandable four minutes. It was a proud moment

538
00:30:13,560 --> 00:30:16,760
Speaker 1: for Orange County Conservatism as embodied by George. It stood

539
00:30:16,840 --> 00:30:19,440
Speaker 1: up to the emblematic scourge of white supremacy. And obviously

540
00:30:19,480 --> 00:30:22,120
Speaker 1: I don't particularly agree with that take, but it's interesting

541
00:30:22,160 --> 00:30:26,320
Speaker 1: that like, this modern o c Conservative writer is looking

542
00:30:26,320 --> 00:30:28,200
Speaker 1: back at Wally George and be like, remember when we

543
00:30:28,280 --> 00:30:31,880
Speaker 1: yelled at Nazis supposed to marching with them in the streets.

544
00:30:31,920 --> 00:30:33,800
Speaker 1: Like I'm not trying to say that this guy is right,

545
00:30:33,840 --> 00:30:36,880
Speaker 1: because this shouldn't be a proud moment for conservatism because

546
00:30:36,920 --> 00:30:40,280
Speaker 1: also he brought him on his fucking show. Um, it's

547
00:30:40,320 --> 00:30:43,280
Speaker 1: interesting to me that this this guy looking at like

548
00:30:43,600 --> 00:30:45,760
Speaker 1: because he's I'm sure he's referring to like these mobs

549
00:30:45,760 --> 00:30:48,680
Speaker 1: you've had, like attacking vaccine sites and fucking we spawn

550
00:30:48,760 --> 00:30:52,080
Speaker 1: whatnot in l a um, some of which include fucking Nazis.

551
00:30:52,400 --> 00:30:54,440
Speaker 1: And he's like, remember when we used to at least

552
00:30:54,520 --> 00:30:59,200
Speaker 1: yell at Nazis. Um, It's it's bleak. Wally filmed his

553
00:30:59,240 --> 00:31:01,880
Speaker 1: show in Orange Countie, and he was a local institution

554
00:31:02,000 --> 00:31:05,280
Speaker 1: and incredibly influential to the combative form of conservatism that

555
00:31:05,320 --> 00:31:07,920
Speaker 1: exists in that enclave to this day. But as the

556
00:31:07,920 --> 00:31:11,040
Speaker 1: author of that article points out, modern o c conservatives,

557
00:31:11,040 --> 00:31:14,200
Speaker 1: though very much the descendants of Wally George, often lack

558
00:31:14,280 --> 00:31:17,880
Speaker 1: his very minimal ethical convictions. Quote Prescient of what occurred

559
00:31:17,880 --> 00:31:21,240
Speaker 1: in Charlotte's Ville and Trump's reaction to it, the interview

560
00:31:21,240 --> 00:31:24,120
Speaker 1: with Metzger captured a moment in time when conservative Republicans

561
00:31:24,200 --> 00:31:27,480
Speaker 1: rallied openly against white supremacy in the Nazis. Watching that

562
00:31:27,520 --> 00:31:30,640
Speaker 1: episode at his equal parts antiquated and orwellian, with George

563
00:31:30,720 --> 00:31:33,920
Speaker 1: orchestrating an audience full of young, mostly white conservative Orange

564
00:31:33,920 --> 00:31:37,680
Speaker 1: County men and fomenting and rallying viciously against Metzger, and

565
00:31:37,720 --> 00:31:40,320
Speaker 1: what he stood for. To riff on Trump's own axiom,

566
00:31:40,360 --> 00:31:42,520
Speaker 1: George made it clear that there were not very fine

567
00:31:42,560 --> 00:31:45,360
Speaker 1: people on both sides. In a fitting into the segment,

568
00:31:45,440 --> 00:31:47,680
Speaker 1: George stood up behind his desk and led his audience

569
00:31:47,680 --> 00:31:50,400
Speaker 1: in a recitation of the Pledge of Allegiance, with particular

570
00:31:50,480 --> 00:31:53,600
Speaker 1: vocal emphasis on the last line, with liberty and justice

571
00:31:53,640 --> 00:31:55,840
Speaker 1: for all. He then expanded on that theme to his

572
00:31:55,840 --> 00:31:58,360
Speaker 1: audience as he looked deploringly at Metzger, reminding him the

573
00:31:58,360 --> 00:32:02,320
Speaker 1: phrase meant to encompass all races, all religions, and all creeds.

574
00:32:02,520 --> 00:32:09,480
Speaker 1: And yeah, it's uh, it's bleak. I mean, I feel

575
00:32:09,480 --> 00:32:13,280
Speaker 1: like George Wally's old. Wally's the kind of dude that

576
00:32:13,360 --> 00:32:15,600
Speaker 1: would have this guy on to scream at him. Not

577
00:32:15,680 --> 00:32:20,040
Speaker 1: because he really personally finds his politics all that distasteful.

578
00:32:20,080 --> 00:32:22,000
Speaker 1: I don't think he cares about any I don't think.

579
00:32:22,680 --> 00:32:24,560
Speaker 1: I'm sure he finds the because I don't think he

580
00:32:24,600 --> 00:32:28,160
Speaker 1: cares about politics much. No, it was just one I

581
00:32:28,200 --> 00:32:30,800
Speaker 1: don't know. It was just a thing, creating a situation

582
00:32:30,800 --> 00:32:33,680
Speaker 1: where he could be the good guy and generate, you know,

583
00:32:34,000 --> 00:32:35,680
Speaker 1: ratings for his TV show. I don't know. I I

584
00:32:36,200 --> 00:32:39,719
Speaker 1: refuse to applaud him for any partner. And I'm not

585
00:32:39,840 --> 00:32:42,479
Speaker 1: quoting this to applaud him. I'm quoting because it's interesting

586
00:32:42,480 --> 00:32:44,720
Speaker 1: to see someone writing from that perspective of the county

587
00:32:44,720 --> 00:32:47,760
Speaker 1: Conservative going, remember when we when we didn't like Nazi,

588
00:32:48,120 --> 00:32:50,680
Speaker 1: Remember when we remember when we had at least that

589
00:32:50,760 --> 00:32:54,320
Speaker 1: line that crossed And when you're looking back at Wally

590
00:32:54,400 --> 00:32:59,960
Speaker 1: george standards, we believed in things, and there's this guy

591
00:33:00,120 --> 00:33:02,480
Speaker 1: like calls a dude who flipped his desk over the

592
00:33:02,480 --> 00:33:04,640
Speaker 1: next tabula. We should turn the country with this, we

593
00:33:04,640 --> 00:33:08,440
Speaker 1: should tour the country even anything he believes in. He

594
00:33:08,480 --> 00:33:11,240
Speaker 1: doesn't believe in a goddamn thing. Um. Now, it is

595
00:33:11,320 --> 00:33:13,320
Speaker 1: unclear to me whether or not Wally George, living in

596
00:33:13,360 --> 00:33:16,200
Speaker 1: the modern era, would have fully embraced, embraced the white

597
00:33:16,280 --> 00:33:19,720
Speaker 1: nationalist authoritarian politics that have since devoured the gop I

598
00:33:19,800 --> 00:33:21,880
Speaker 1: suspect so in a way that I don't know if

599
00:33:22,000 --> 00:33:24,680
Speaker 1: Joe Pine would have as racist as I'm sure Joe

600
00:33:24,680 --> 00:33:28,440
Speaker 1: Pine was. Joe Pine at least was in World War Two. Like,

601
00:33:28,480 --> 00:33:31,680
Speaker 1: I think he might fight not he might brush up

602
00:33:31,720 --> 00:33:33,720
Speaker 1: against that a little bit. Yeah, I think if he

603
00:33:33,760 --> 00:33:36,200
Speaker 1: saw a dude with a swastika flag, in a march.

604
00:33:36,200 --> 00:33:40,240
Speaker 1: He'd be like, well, fuck those guys. Whatever happening over there,

605
00:33:40,640 --> 00:33:43,640
Speaker 1: whatever happening over there. I don't like that flag. Yeah.

606
00:33:43,960 --> 00:33:46,880
Speaker 1: Um so yeah, it's I don't know. I can't say

607
00:33:46,920 --> 00:33:49,280
Speaker 1: what Wally would have done clearly. Um. But if we're

608
00:33:49,280 --> 00:33:52,680
Speaker 1: to judge purely off his TV appearances, maybe no. If

609
00:33:52,680 --> 00:33:54,840
Speaker 1: we were to judge what we know about him morally,

610
00:33:54,880 --> 00:33:59,600
Speaker 1: probably yes. He he seems cut from the same grift cloth. Yeah, yeah, yeah,

611
00:33:59,640 --> 00:34:02,080
Speaker 1: and Ali is It's worth noting one of the very

612
00:34:02,120 --> 00:34:05,280
Speaker 1: first conservative political voices to use a phrase that has

613
00:34:05,320 --> 00:34:09,840
Speaker 1: since become infamous, We must make America great again. Wally

614
00:34:09,920 --> 00:34:12,600
Speaker 1: said this regularly on his show throughout the nineteen eighties

615
00:34:12,600 --> 00:34:16,680
Speaker 1: and early nineteen nineties. Alongside Rush Limbaugh. He also popularized

616
00:34:16,680 --> 00:34:21,280
Speaker 1: phrases like liberal lunatics, calling his detractors strippers, mud wrestlers,

617
00:34:21,280 --> 00:34:25,400
Speaker 1: and bimbos of all sizes and shapes. By the nineteen nineties,

618
00:34:25,480 --> 00:34:28,760
Speaker 1: Hot Seat was no longer close to unique. Jerry Springer

619
00:34:28,800 --> 00:34:31,600
Speaker 1: and Rush Limbaugh had both entered TV by then. Russia's

620
00:34:31,600 --> 00:34:34,320
Speaker 1: foray didn't last long, but in nineteen ninety six, Fox

621
00:34:34,360 --> 00:34:37,120
Speaker 1: News started up and provided a much more respectable venue

622
00:34:37,120 --> 00:34:39,960
Speaker 1: for far right hate speech. Meanwhile, Jerry Springer delivered a

623
00:34:40,000 --> 00:34:43,520
Speaker 1: gleefully a political approach to combat television that more people

624
00:34:43,520 --> 00:34:46,480
Speaker 1: found appealing than Wally's right wing rants. The fact that

625
00:34:46,520 --> 00:34:49,879
Speaker 1: Springer himself was a much more pleasant person than may

626
00:34:49,880 --> 00:34:54,120
Speaker 1: have had something to do with this. In nineteen George's

627
00:34:54,120 --> 00:34:57,520
Speaker 1: wife left him in the least surprising turn of she

628
00:34:57,600 --> 00:35:00,320
Speaker 1: took their seven year old daughter with her, Thank God

629
00:35:00,640 --> 00:35:04,880
Speaker 1: Jesus Christ. We do not know how many times Wally

630
00:35:05,000 --> 00:35:08,000
Speaker 1: was married, at least four, some sources say as many

631
00:35:08,040 --> 00:35:11,040
Speaker 1: as six times. Like that. It's like a fucking legend,

632
00:35:11,080 --> 00:35:13,359
Speaker 1: Like we don't know. It's like, we don't really know

633
00:35:13,400 --> 00:35:16,959
Speaker 1: how many of course, that fucking crip keeper looking dude,

634
00:35:17,000 --> 00:35:19,480
Speaker 1: we don't know. I don't know how many wives he's

635
00:35:19,520 --> 00:35:24,920
Speaker 1: got locked in a closet like wives surviving exactly. Yeah,

636
00:35:24,960 --> 00:35:27,360
Speaker 1: Wally had several kids, but he was not really a

637
00:35:27,400 --> 00:35:29,880
Speaker 1: father to any of them. Like he would have kids,

638
00:35:29,960 --> 00:35:32,080
Speaker 1: but he was no one's father. I think it's fair

639
00:35:32,160 --> 00:35:34,319
Speaker 1: to say, man, judging by his his set, I thought

640
00:35:34,360 --> 00:35:36,840
Speaker 1: he would have delighted in having little kids, having a

641
00:35:36,840 --> 00:35:41,359
Speaker 1: little kid around you guys in the rocket ships and

642
00:35:41,480 --> 00:35:47,920
Speaker 1: blue turtlenecks. His most prominent child Tom was the actress

643
00:35:48,000 --> 00:35:53,960
Speaker 1: Rebecca de Mornay. Um, yeah, that's his daughter, Wally, just daughter.

644
00:35:54,239 --> 00:35:56,879
Speaker 1: Tell us about Rebecca de Mornay. Oh, they have kind

645
00:35:56,880 --> 00:36:01,839
Speaker 1: of the same hair, like you can see it. M man,

646
00:36:01,960 --> 00:36:05,239
Speaker 1: that's that's fucked up. I mean, I mean, she's in

647
00:36:05,600 --> 00:36:08,120
Speaker 1: hand that rocks the Cradle. She's in that The Sweet

648
00:36:08,120 --> 00:36:10,440
Speaker 1: Three Musketeers, you know, the Disney one with with Oliver

649
00:36:10,480 --> 00:36:14,440
Speaker 1: Platt and Charlie Sheen and keep it Sutherland Umn't that

650
00:36:14,560 --> 00:36:17,000
Speaker 1: TV version of the Shining She is in that TV

651
00:36:17,120 --> 00:36:20,960
Speaker 1: version of the shot. That's a man that just shattered

652
00:36:21,000 --> 00:36:24,919
Speaker 1: my entire universe. Didn't expect that, didn't expect that, didn't

653
00:36:24,960 --> 00:36:30,399
Speaker 1: expect to learn that today? Did you know? That's that's

654
00:36:30,400 --> 00:36:31,839
Speaker 1: too late. I was gonna say, was she the one

655
00:36:31,840 --> 00:36:33,640
Speaker 1: that the that the wife took? But now she was

656
00:36:33,640 --> 00:36:35,600
Speaker 1: our refective warning was already in movies at that point.

657
00:36:36,280 --> 00:36:38,160
Speaker 1: I think she was. You know, he was just having

658
00:36:38,239 --> 00:36:40,920
Speaker 1: kids in abandoning him left and right. M you know

659
00:36:40,960 --> 00:36:44,040
Speaker 1: who else has kids in abandons them? The person the

660
00:36:44,080 --> 00:36:48,120
Speaker 1: sponsors are responsible for these delightful products. Not a single

661
00:36:48,160 --> 00:36:50,439
Speaker 1: one of them, not a single one of them, raise

662
00:36:50,520 --> 00:36:53,680
Speaker 1: their own kids. Well that's gonna help biscuit sponsors. Robert,

663
00:36:53,760 --> 00:36:58,239
Speaker 1: thank you, Sophie, thank you, so be. Look, I think

664
00:36:58,320 --> 00:37:01,399
Speaker 1: some people you don't like to like raise their kids

665
00:37:01,440 --> 00:37:03,839
Speaker 1: in a loving environment, and some people like the song

666
00:37:03,920 --> 00:37:05,920
Speaker 1: A Boy Named Sue and think that that's a good

667
00:37:05,920 --> 00:37:08,759
Speaker 1: way to raise a kid. And both options are equally respectable.

668
00:37:08,920 --> 00:37:11,160
Speaker 1: And what does that have to do with our sponsors. Well,

669
00:37:11,200 --> 00:37:12,840
Speaker 1: if you can abandon your kids as long as you

670
00:37:12,920 --> 00:37:15,839
Speaker 1: name them Sue, it's fine. As the song shows, they'll

671
00:37:15,840 --> 00:37:18,719
Speaker 1: turn out Okay, we'll also learn how to fight. Will

672
00:37:18,719 --> 00:37:22,359
Speaker 1: also accept ramblin Man. Ramblin Man share absolutely great great

673
00:37:22,400 --> 00:37:25,480
Speaker 1: child rearing advice in ramble Man. All right, well that's

674
00:37:25,480 --> 00:37:33,239
Speaker 1: going to lead us. Dads. We're back, and we're all

675
00:37:33,280 --> 00:37:36,919
Speaker 1: just silently appreciating the song A Boy Named Sue, which

676
00:37:36,960 --> 00:37:40,200
Speaker 1: again contains all of the parenting lessons. Anyone listening to

677
00:37:40,280 --> 00:37:42,880
Speaker 1: this will ever need to know, certainly anyone we're talking

678
00:37:42,920 --> 00:37:51,200
Speaker 1: about will certainly ever ever, So, Rebecca de Mornay, am

679
00:37:51,200 --> 00:37:52,879
Speaker 1: I saying her name right as far as I know?

680
00:37:53,360 --> 00:37:56,520
Speaker 1: All right, yeah, you know she is obviously, Um what's

681
00:37:56,520 --> 00:37:59,520
Speaker 1: she in? What's what's her big ship? I just rattled?

682
00:37:59,520 --> 00:38:03,759
Speaker 1: Are you serious, Tom, Okay, Well, my brain doesn't work, Tom,

683
00:38:03,800 --> 00:38:06,200
Speaker 1: and C is probably your biggest right hand that rocks

684
00:38:06,200 --> 00:38:10,120
Speaker 1: the cradle. I'm sorry, I'm on I'm on drugs, and

685
00:38:10,719 --> 00:38:14,000
Speaker 1: it's more that I I'm most mostly sober now. It's

686
00:38:14,000 --> 00:38:17,560
Speaker 1: more that I was on drugs for thirteen straight years. Um,

687
00:38:17,560 --> 00:38:19,960
Speaker 1: my memory doesn't do so great. Remember you knew me

688
00:38:20,040 --> 00:38:23,319
Speaker 1: during Remember that I was not smoking. Yeah, you were

689
00:38:23,360 --> 00:38:27,200
Speaker 1: there for that. That night I gave everybody way too

690
00:38:27,280 --> 00:38:31,160
Speaker 1: much night You put Dave in the hospital hallucinating. Yeah,

691
00:38:31,239 --> 00:38:34,239
Speaker 1: I mean, in fairness, Dave. Dave decided the hospital was

692
00:38:34,239 --> 00:38:38,680
Speaker 1: the right place to be at that. That's true. I

693
00:38:38,719 --> 00:38:41,760
Speaker 1: haven't been able to watch uh, Back to the Future

694
00:38:41,840 --> 00:38:44,320
Speaker 1: since we were coming up during that when we realized

695
00:38:44,360 --> 00:38:51,960
Speaker 1: we had grossly misjudged the amount of post taken a

696
00:38:52,000 --> 00:38:56,440
Speaker 1: whole lot. It was something like sixty sixty doses or so.

697
00:38:56,960 --> 00:38:59,880
Speaker 1: Um so. His most prominent child was the actress Rebecca

698
00:38:59,880 --> 00:39:05,239
Speaker 1: to Morne, who fucking hated Wally George. He like publicly

699
00:39:05,280 --> 00:39:08,320
Speaker 1: attacked him, and Wally blasted her in interviews as bitter,

700
00:39:08,400 --> 00:39:11,120
Speaker 1: twisted and out to ruin me. I found an old

701
00:39:11,239 --> 00:39:14,000
Speaker 1: l A Times article that provides more context to Wally

702
00:39:14,120 --> 00:39:16,439
Speaker 1: during the down swing of his career. You know she's

703
00:39:16,440 --> 00:39:19,280
Speaker 1: my daughter, don't you, asks George. He can't help basking

704
00:39:19,280 --> 00:39:21,960
Speaker 1: in the reflected glory of her celebrity status, even while

705
00:39:21,960 --> 00:39:24,440
Speaker 1: conceding that she grew up in England without knowing him

706
00:39:24,440 --> 00:39:26,680
Speaker 1: and wants nothing to do with him. Now, what really

707
00:39:26,719 --> 00:39:28,919
Speaker 1: bothers bothers me more than anything is that she's given

708
00:39:28,920 --> 00:39:31,200
Speaker 1: interview saying I never tried to contact her until after

709
00:39:31,239 --> 00:39:34,399
Speaker 1: she became a star. It's not true I embarrass her.

710
00:39:34,640 --> 00:39:36,800
Speaker 1: She hangs out with left wing actors like Robert de

711
00:39:36,880 --> 00:39:39,680
Speaker 1: Niro and Jack Nicholson and Harry Dean Stanton. You don't

712
00:39:39,719 --> 00:39:42,560
Speaker 1: like me because I bad mouth Hollywood. They've convinced her

713
00:39:42,560 --> 00:39:45,080
Speaker 1: I'm bad for her career. I just love that that

714
00:39:45,239 --> 00:39:59,080
Speaker 1: that trifecta's Jack Nicholson famed leftists all. It's very funny. Um.

715
00:39:59,120 --> 00:40:03,600
Speaker 1: In fact, yeah, sorry, yeah, it's very funny. And it's

716
00:40:03,600 --> 00:40:06,520
Speaker 1: one of those things like probably nothing would have maybe

717
00:40:06,560 --> 00:40:09,000
Speaker 1: saved his career more than if he'd actually like made

718
00:40:09,080 --> 00:40:10,959
Speaker 1: up with his daughter and like done a big TV

719
00:40:11,040 --> 00:40:14,359
Speaker 1: special about it. Um. But she never gave into that ship.

720
00:40:14,400 --> 00:40:16,799
Speaker 1: Like that's clearly what he wanted was some kind of

721
00:40:16,840 --> 00:40:19,600
Speaker 1: like big public you know, for show, right, he obviously

722
00:40:19,640 --> 00:40:21,600
Speaker 1: didn't give a shit about her, He abandoned. No, I'm sure,

723
00:40:21,680 --> 00:40:28,480
Speaker 1: but I'm sure absolutely yeah yeah yeah um. By the

724
00:40:28,520 --> 00:40:31,360
Speaker 1: mid nineteen nineties, George's audience was too small for the

725
00:40:31,440 --> 00:40:33,920
Speaker 1: Nielsen Company to rate, which means it reached less than

726
00:40:33,960 --> 00:40:37,040
Speaker 1: twenty four thousand households in the Los Angeles area. As

727
00:40:37,080 --> 00:40:39,440
Speaker 1: a result, in order to chase notoriety and attention, he

728
00:40:39,480 --> 00:40:42,280
Speaker 1: was forced to find weirder and weirder guests for Hot Seat.

729
00:40:42,520 --> 00:40:47,560
Speaker 1: One frequent attendee was Odorous Urungus, the lead singer for Guards.

730
00:40:47,760 --> 00:40:54,000
Speaker 1: Loved Tom turns his head. Odorus loved Wally, telling one interviewer, Honestly,

731
00:40:54,080 --> 00:40:55,839
Speaker 1: of all the talk shows we've been on, everything from

732
00:40:55,880 --> 00:40:58,239
Speaker 1: Springer to Joan Rivers to Jimmy Fallon, it was our

733
00:40:58,280 --> 00:41:01,040
Speaker 1: favorite one, that cheesy little public access show with that

734
00:41:01,120 --> 00:41:03,440
Speaker 1: weirdo Wally George. He kicked ass on all of those

735
00:41:03,480 --> 00:41:07,880
Speaker 1: other multimillion dollar, fucking Hollywood TV creation constructed human being Yuck.

736
00:41:08,080 --> 00:41:11,480
Speaker 1: Those people really made me sick. Yeah, fucking guar. I mean,

737
00:41:11,560 --> 00:41:14,120
Speaker 1: I get why a man who dresses up as a

738
00:41:14,120 --> 00:41:17,600
Speaker 1: monster for a living would enjoy being on Wally George's show. Yeah,

739
00:41:19,320 --> 00:41:21,160
Speaker 1: I mean that was their whole thing. They just wanted

740
00:41:21,160 --> 00:41:23,759
Speaker 1: to offend people and shock. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I get

741
00:41:23,800 --> 00:41:26,800
Speaker 1: why Wally George and him hit it off. Dexter Holland,

742
00:41:26,920 --> 00:41:29,600
Speaker 1: lead singer of The Offspring, was also a guest on

743
00:41:29,600 --> 00:41:32,640
Speaker 1: The Wally George Show and described it as punk, which

744
00:41:32,680 --> 00:41:35,360
Speaker 1: I do think gets it something important For many of

745
00:41:35,400 --> 00:41:38,520
Speaker 1: his young fans, especially, the appeal wasn't that Wally was

746
00:41:38,640 --> 00:41:40,680
Speaker 1: right wing. It was the rock because they weren't. And

747
00:41:40,719 --> 00:41:42,239
Speaker 1: it wasn't that they didn't hate right wing or they

748
00:41:42,239 --> 00:41:44,560
Speaker 1: weren't left wing. They just didn't care about politics. They

749
00:41:44,600 --> 00:41:47,600
Speaker 1: liked that he was raucous, violent and unhinged, and they

750
00:41:47,640 --> 00:41:50,040
Speaker 1: liked that as members of his live audience, they could

751
00:41:50,080 --> 00:41:52,800
Speaker 1: be raucous, violent and unhinged. They could scream and shout

752
00:41:52,840 --> 00:41:55,600
Speaker 1: at people and threatened them and sometimes even get into

753
00:41:55,600 --> 00:41:58,120
Speaker 1: fucking fights on the show. And there's more than a

754
00:41:58,120 --> 00:42:00,799
Speaker 1: little Wally George in the alt rights d in a like,

755
00:42:01,040 --> 00:42:02,960
Speaker 1: I don't care as much about the politics that I'm

756
00:42:03,000 --> 00:42:05,239
Speaker 1: claiming as I do about getting to offend you. You know,

757
00:42:05,440 --> 00:42:10,080
Speaker 1: that's Wally George and that's a big part of modern conservatism. Now,

758
00:42:10,520 --> 00:42:13,240
Speaker 1: other regular guests who sparred with Wally expressed a belief

759
00:42:13,280 --> 00:42:15,560
Speaker 1: that he was not really conservative. He was a showman

760
00:42:15,680 --> 00:42:18,759
Speaker 1: first and foremost, and would happily platform anyone fringe enough

761
00:42:18,800 --> 00:42:21,319
Speaker 1: to be entertaining. Still, there was more than a hint

762
00:42:21,360 --> 00:42:25,040
Speaker 1: of lynch mob to Wally's audience. Nicolas Shrek, lead singer

763
00:42:25,080 --> 00:42:28,520
Speaker 1: of the of Radio Werewolf, recalled it was like Wally

764
00:42:28,600 --> 00:42:31,680
Speaker 1: was a microcosm of Hollywood taking over politics. In a way,

765
00:42:31,680 --> 00:42:33,680
Speaker 1: it could seem harmless or like it was just a joke,

766
00:42:33,800 --> 00:42:35,640
Speaker 1: but when we were actually in the studio and while

767
00:42:35,640 --> 00:42:38,120
Speaker 1: he was presenting me as a scapegoat for all societal ills,

768
00:42:38,400 --> 00:42:41,040
Speaker 1: the audience was whipped into a genuine frenzy. They did

769
00:42:41,080 --> 00:42:42,879
Speaker 1: not take it as a joke, and it felt very

770
00:42:42,960 --> 00:42:45,120
Speaker 1: dangerous to be there. It's easy to think he was

771
00:42:45,160 --> 00:42:47,440
Speaker 1: a humorous phenomenon, but it was part of the whole.

772
00:42:47,680 --> 00:42:50,000
Speaker 1: It was a very violent craziness to the eighties that

773
00:42:50,040 --> 00:42:52,520
Speaker 1: I don't think Americans can remember exactly how it was.

774
00:42:52,880 --> 00:42:55,120
Speaker 1: I went to a Ronald Reagan rally in nineteen eighty

775
00:42:55,160 --> 00:42:57,960
Speaker 1: four and I sensed that same inherent violence. You know,

776
00:42:58,000 --> 00:43:01,440
Speaker 1: the novel Lord of the Flies did me of that. Yep,

777
00:43:02,120 --> 00:43:04,560
Speaker 1: there's a lot in there. It feels a little relevant,

778
00:43:04,600 --> 00:43:08,759
Speaker 1: doesn't it. Yeah, Shrek onto something there. Yeah, that's that's

779
00:43:09,440 --> 00:43:12,040
Speaker 1: like I said, that's one of the main things about

780
00:43:12,040 --> 00:43:15,640
Speaker 1: watching that clip that was so unpleasant and upsetting is

781
00:43:15,640 --> 00:43:18,080
Speaker 1: is is how close it is to a lynch mob.

782
00:43:18,200 --> 00:43:21,000
Speaker 1: It's just like he's a big goofball. Like we had

783
00:43:21,040 --> 00:43:23,160
Speaker 1: a lot of fun talking about how ridiculous he looks,

784
00:43:23,239 --> 00:43:27,200
Speaker 1: but like that is a frightening there's no judg Yeah,

785
00:43:27,239 --> 00:43:30,920
Speaker 1: that's nothing funny about absolutely not. No that I have.

786
00:43:31,080 --> 00:43:33,560
Speaker 1: I have. I have gone toe to toe with more

787
00:43:33,640 --> 00:43:35,360
Speaker 1: or less of that audience in the street with a

788
00:43:35,360 --> 00:43:37,880
Speaker 1: bunch of weapons on their side. It's the same fucking people.

789
00:43:37,960 --> 00:43:40,880
Speaker 1: It's fair, same motivation. It's it's a man. It's so

790
00:43:41,080 --> 00:43:43,840
Speaker 1: it's so parallel to like Trump, because like Trump himself,

791
00:43:43,880 --> 00:43:46,239
Speaker 1: the man, it's a big stupid idiot that's ridiculous looking,

792
00:43:46,280 --> 00:43:47,719
Speaker 1: and you can just look at him have just as

793
00:43:47,760 --> 00:43:49,840
Speaker 1: easily been a Democrat if that had been the easy

794
00:43:49,880 --> 00:43:52,080
Speaker 1: way to get what he wanted. Yeah, just look at

795
00:43:52,080 --> 00:43:53,719
Speaker 1: that big stupid asshole. But then you look at the

796
00:43:53,719 --> 00:43:57,000
Speaker 1: crowds that follow him, like, oh, there's nothing funny about that, Like,

797
00:43:57,040 --> 00:44:01,080
Speaker 1: it's not at all humorous. No, it's just scared. Wally's

798
00:44:01,120 --> 00:44:04,000
Speaker 1: health started to fall apart in the early nineteen nineties.

799
00:44:05,560 --> 00:44:07,520
Speaker 1: I know, Tom, this is really going to break your

800
00:44:07,560 --> 00:44:11,560
Speaker 1: heart yourself here, don't tell me I can't take it.

801
00:44:12,160 --> 00:44:15,160
Speaker 1: By ninetee, he had to quit recording new episodes of

802
00:44:15,200 --> 00:44:17,360
Speaker 1: his show, But since Hot Seat had been daily for

803
00:44:17,440 --> 00:44:20,320
Speaker 1: like a decade, the show stayed in reruns for another decade,

804
00:44:20,320 --> 00:44:23,600
Speaker 1: and Wally would regularly record new introductions and conclusions to

805
00:44:23,680 --> 00:44:27,080
Speaker 1: various best of episodes. He died in two thousand three

806
00:44:27,320 --> 00:44:30,640
Speaker 1: of pneumonia. So we have a lot to thank cigarettes

807
00:44:30,640 --> 00:44:32,879
Speaker 1: and pneumonia for but none of them work fast enough.

808
00:44:33,280 --> 00:44:37,360
Speaker 1: Satan called home another angel, another one of his glorious angels.

809
00:44:40,160 --> 00:44:46,120
Speaker 1: Speaking of Satan's angels, Tom hadn't plugtles to plug. That's

810
00:44:46,160 --> 00:44:49,799
Speaker 1: the end. That's the end of part two. We gotta,

811
00:44:49,840 --> 00:44:51,560
Speaker 1: we gotta, we gotta, we got we got one more.

812
00:44:51,600 --> 00:44:53,840
Speaker 1: We got one more in the chamber. All ran a

813
00:44:53,880 --> 00:44:56,920
Speaker 1: little longer, So all right, Well, yeah, I run a

814
00:44:56,960 --> 00:45:00,279
Speaker 1: podcast network with my buddy David Bell. We worked at

815
00:45:00,320 --> 00:45:02,360
Speaker 1: Crack together. If you want to head up a Patreon

816
00:45:02,400 --> 00:45:05,280
Speaker 1: dot com slash Games for unemployeed. You can support our network.

817
00:45:05,320 --> 00:45:07,520
Speaker 1: We do a bunch of free podcasts. We also do

818
00:45:07,640 --> 00:45:10,359
Speaker 1: a bunch of exclusive podcasts just for patrons like uh

819
00:45:10,480 --> 00:45:12,879
Speaker 1: Fox Folders, Maniac, Tom and Jeff, watch Batman, and Start

820
00:45:13,040 --> 00:45:16,360
Speaker 1: Mix Puturama. So check that out if you would please. Yeah, assholes,

821
00:45:16,480 --> 00:45:19,200
Speaker 1: do it. Yeah you're gonna do not do it. I'm sorry,

822
00:45:19,239 --> 00:45:21,480
Speaker 1: I love you all. Anyways, the episode is over.