WEBVTT - Muncaster Castle: Tom Fool 0:00:00.160 --> 0:00:04.080 Here's a question for you, dear listener, Do you feel lucky? 0:00:04.280 --> 0:00:04.560 Punk? 0:00:04.600 --> 0:00:09.480 Punk Wow? Sorry about the punk thing and the dodgy accent. 0:00:09.720 --> 0:00:12.960 The reason I ask is because today's episode explores luck, 0:00:13.360 --> 0:00:22.360 both good and bad, although mostly bad. Moncaster Castle in 0:00:22.480 --> 0:00:25.799 Cumbria is the home to the Pennington family, and in 0:00:25.840 --> 0:00:28.720 our previous month cast episode, I was talking to you 0:00:28.920 --> 0:00:32.120 in Frost Pennington, the soon to be owner of the castle. 0:00:32.240 --> 0:00:36.560 We got familiar with his sausages meat wow. 0:00:36.400 --> 0:00:39.800 However you describe it, it has indes. 0:00:40.200 --> 0:00:43.080 We heard about the castle's haunted tapestry room. 0:00:44.600 --> 0:00:48.200 We had too many people complaining that they couldn't sleep 0:00:48.240 --> 0:00:51.760 because of the crying child. And supposedly the bit that 0:00:51.800 --> 0:00:55.640 I like, hate be love is that it's fine the 0:00:55.880 --> 0:01:00.280 child crying. It's just when the nurse starts singing to 0:01:00.320 --> 0:01:03.640 try and calm the people get too freaked out. 0:01:03.880 --> 0:01:07.559 And Ewan told us about Muncaster's most famous resident, Tom Fall, 0:01:08.040 --> 0:01:11.839 the guy who drowned people in quicksand for a laugh if. 0:01:11.680 --> 0:01:14.240 He didn't like the look of you. Supposedly, as the 0:01:14.280 --> 0:01:18.360 story goes, he would direct you the less convenient quicksand 0:01:18.720 --> 0:01:20.039 invested route. 0:01:19.840 --> 0:01:21.679 And then they get just sucked under and never heard 0:01:21.720 --> 0:01:25.680 of again. Yeah, he's a murderer, exact directly. 0:01:25.959 --> 0:01:28.920 Yeah, as I say, the sixteenth century sense of humor 0:01:28.920 --> 0:01:29.959 is probably slightly different. 0:01:30.800 --> 0:01:32.039 You can say that again, the. 0:01:32.120 --> 0:01:35.000 Sixteenth century sense of humor is probably slightly different. 0:01:35.080 --> 0:01:38.600 Yet all right, not literally. We had our own encounter 0:01:38.680 --> 0:01:41.640 with Tom after trying to chat to Ian Douglas Moncaster's 0:01:41.720 --> 0:01:44.959 current four. I'm happy to say we came out alive, 0:01:45.520 --> 0:01:49.400 but it was certainly unnerving. To be fair, Youwan did 0:01:49.400 --> 0:01:50.280 give us a heads up. 0:01:50.800 --> 0:01:53.600 The kind of legend is the term Tom foolery. We 0:01:53.680 --> 0:01:57.480 use a lot of Moncaster because quite often technology or 0:01:57.560 --> 0:02:01.279 just weird things go wrong exit actually the wrong time. 0:02:01.800 --> 0:02:05.120 Remote recordings can have their challenges. But what we didn't 0:02:05.160 --> 0:02:08.680 expect three hundred miles away from Cumbria in central London 0:02:09.120 --> 0:02:12.119 was for this to be happening. After mentoring Tom Fall. 0:02:12.360 --> 0:02:14.239 I used to live up the straight two years ago 0:02:14.240 --> 0:02:16.320 when my children were young. I lived in Castle a 0:02:16.320 --> 0:02:17.240 few times. 0:02:18.919 --> 0:02:21.440 So sorry, I just you know, I'm just gonna pause 0:02:21.440 --> 0:02:22.079 you there a second. 0:02:22.760 --> 0:02:27.440 Oh goodness, hob knobs Ewan's grandfather would suddenly appear from 0:02:27.480 --> 0:02:28.200 a bush. 0:02:28.320 --> 0:02:30.560 The reception is still very, very bad at our end 0:02:32.040 --> 0:02:34.760 I'm struggling to hear. I know there's a granddad in 0:02:34.760 --> 0:02:42.080 a bush. That's about all I got. Tom fooled around 0:02:42.080 --> 0:02:44.959 with us like this for quite a while. We restarted 0:02:45.040 --> 0:02:48.320 and restarted, but in the end Tom won and we 0:02:48.440 --> 0:02:49.359 gave up here. 0:02:49.960 --> 0:02:51.160 Hello, hi as well. 0:02:51.160 --> 0:02:53.280 I'm here so I can't quite hear what you're saying 0:02:53.400 --> 0:02:56.200 drops in and out, but I think we're gonna just 0:02:56.320 --> 0:02:58.919 stop the recording for now and then bex or I'll 0:02:58.960 --> 0:03:00.280 give you a call on it. 0:03:00.360 --> 0:03:04.000 Really tomfoolery or just bad luck? If you ask me. 0:03:04.400 --> 0:03:07.000 It seemed a little too well timed to be the latter. 0:03:07.680 --> 0:03:09.880 I've been doing this podcast long enough to know when 0:03:09.960 --> 0:03:13.000 spirits are getting up to no good. My producers willelm 0:03:13.000 --> 0:03:15.400 and Becks did sort something out. But before we hear 0:03:15.440 --> 0:03:19.000 from Ian, let's start this episode with some good luck. 0:03:24.120 --> 0:03:26.959 Producer Willhelm has an enamel mug shaped like a tooth. 0:03:27.240 --> 0:03:29.720 He loves it, even if it's dirty. He'll wash it 0:03:29.760 --> 0:03:32.680 up to use it for tea Producer Chris likes his 0:03:32.800 --> 0:03:35.800 shrimp mug from Dartmouth, and for coffee, he likes his 0:03:35.880 --> 0:03:39.000 little red one. Oh bless him. Personally, I'm too clumsy 0:03:39.040 --> 0:03:41.080 to be trusted with anything around here. So when I 0:03:41.080 --> 0:03:42.760 get a coffee, they normally serve it to me in 0:03:42.800 --> 0:03:45.880 an old shoe. But imagine your family was gifted a 0:03:45.920 --> 0:03:49.839 bowl so precious that it got its own name. This 0:03:50.080 --> 0:03:54.720 is the story of the luck of Muncas Tests. It 0:03:54.800 --> 0:03:57.760 starts in fourteen sixty one during the War of the Roses, 0:03:58.160 --> 0:04:01.520 Ewan's ancestor John Penny, and did a very good deed 0:04:01.600 --> 0:04:04.160 for King Henry the sixth after one of the war's 0:04:04.440 --> 0:04:05.560 bloodiest battles. 0:04:05.600 --> 0:04:07.960 So King Henry the sixth joined the War of the Roses, 0:04:08.040 --> 0:04:10.200 was on the run and he was taken in by 0:04:10.240 --> 0:04:13.720 the Penningtons just before he went to the Tower of London. 0:04:13.800 --> 0:04:19.680 Indeed, war between Yorkshire and Lancashire. Yeah, Yorkshire being the 0:04:19.680 --> 0:04:23.440 White Rose, Bankshire being the Red Rose. And what side 0:04:24.000 --> 0:04:25.960 he was on he was Lancastrian. 0:04:26.040 --> 0:04:29.720 Lancastrian, So even though he had been defeated in one 0:04:29.760 --> 0:04:32.360 of the bloodiest battles and he was on the run, 0:04:32.640 --> 0:04:34.560 the Penningtons took a bit of a risk, took him 0:04:34.600 --> 0:04:37.640 in and looked after him for a few weeks and 0:04:37.760 --> 0:04:40.440 showed great hospitality to him because even though he was 0:04:40.480 --> 0:04:43.479 a useless fighter, per se he was a very academic 0:04:43.520 --> 0:04:47.760 and spiritual person, like he founded King's College in Cambridge. 0:04:47.839 --> 0:04:49.960 He founded Eton. 0:04:51.080 --> 0:04:55.480 Yeah, that's why they called that the Lea's and the Roses. 0:04:55.880 --> 0:04:56.640 That's him, isn't it. 0:04:56.720 --> 0:04:59.599 Yeah, exactly. So he just before coming to the Tower 0:04:59.839 --> 0:05:05.279 was Moncaster and the Pennington at the time hosted him 0:05:05.560 --> 0:05:08.520 and he was obviously so grateful that he gave them 0:05:09.000 --> 0:05:12.599 his only worthy possession, which was a Venetian drinking bowl. 0:05:13.000 --> 0:05:15.480 And he said that as long as this bowl remains 0:05:15.480 --> 0:05:21.640 intact from the or unriven, the Penningtons from Moncaster will 0:05:21.640 --> 0:05:23.920 never be driven. Kind of a bit more bit more 0:05:23.920 --> 0:05:25.679 sexy that that way we're saying. 0:05:25.640 --> 0:05:27.479 That is the bait, and word for word how he 0:05:27.520 --> 0:05:29.800 said it, he started a bit he was very tired. 0:05:30.240 --> 0:05:32.680 Yeah, at time, lots of battles and about to be 0:05:32.760 --> 0:05:33.839 murdered in the Tower of London. 0:05:33.920 --> 0:05:35.520 And so this this bowl has seen a lot of 0:05:35.560 --> 0:05:37.560 action in your family past down the generations. 0:05:37.720 --> 0:05:41.359 Yeah, there's all sorts of like mystique and history about it, 0:05:41.400 --> 0:05:45.200 and it'd been lost and rebound and lost and all sorts. 0:05:46.000 --> 0:05:48.080 The holy grail of the Penningtons. 0:05:48.279 --> 0:05:49.440 Yeah, exactly. 0:05:49.920 --> 0:05:51.919 Have you used it yourself? 0:05:52.080 --> 0:05:55.200 I've never used it. I've seen it twice. 0:05:55.440 --> 0:05:57.680 Now, how do you mean seen it twice later? 0:05:57.720 --> 0:06:00.920 I'm quite clumsy in general, and. 0:06:01.080 --> 0:06:02.240 They don't let you near it. 0:06:02.279 --> 0:06:05.120 And well for me, like, I think it's a really 0:06:05.160 --> 0:06:08.880 important like passing of the bowl right to the next generation. 0:06:09.000 --> 0:06:11.359 It's kind of a big deal. And I now know 0:06:11.400 --> 0:06:13.120 where it's kept, but I don't know where the key 0:06:13.240 --> 0:06:17.320 for that secret safe is. So I think when it 0:06:17.360 --> 0:06:20.520 gets around to me being entrusted with that key, because 0:06:20.520 --> 0:06:23.520 I mean, I'm I found out very recently that every 0:06:23.560 --> 0:06:28.160 Pennington prior to like our particular line, it was christened 0:06:28.480 --> 0:06:32.200 using that bowl, but my parents decided not to because 0:06:32.240 --> 0:06:35.279 they were worried that it might break the cold water 0:06:35.600 --> 0:06:38.800 but maybe the cursed as a consequence. I'm going to 0:06:38.800 --> 0:06:43.000 be the one to let the castle crumble, be driven 0:06:43.040 --> 0:06:45.480 because I wasn't baptized or christened with it. 0:06:45.520 --> 0:06:48.000 What did you get christ with? Like a sports Direct mug, 0:06:48.320 --> 0:06:49.120 something robust. 0:06:49.320 --> 0:06:51.440 Maybe hopefully it is the holy Grail and it does 0:06:51.480 --> 0:06:54.880 give me a life. Get the key and they can 0:06:54.960 --> 0:06:55.560 drink from it. 0:06:59.120 --> 0:07:01.720 Well, make sure you get the right bowl. Ewan, We've 0:07:01.760 --> 0:07:03.920 all seen in Jenna Jones. You don't want to die 0:07:03.920 --> 0:07:11.280 from rapid aging. You must choose, but chews wisely. It 0:07:11.320 --> 0:07:13.240 must be nice having a good luck charm like that 0:07:13.320 --> 0:07:15.320 around the place, even if you don't know where it is. 0:07:15.880 --> 0:07:17.960 All I've got is this old bowl of cereal that's 0:07:18.000 --> 0:07:20.360 been in the sink for four days. The coca pots 0:07:20.400 --> 0:07:22.040 are so hard now I have to chisel them off. 0:07:26.560 --> 0:07:29.200 We're going to leave Ewan and his lucky bowl there 0:07:29.240 --> 0:07:32.680 for now, because our luck is about to turn. It's 0:07:32.760 --> 0:07:38.320 time to talk about Tom fool We briefly touched on 0:07:38.400 --> 0:07:41.440 Tom full in our first Moncaster episode, but here's all 0:07:41.480 --> 0:07:44.560 you need to know. In the sixteenth century, Tom Skelton 0:07:44.880 --> 0:07:48.680 was Muncaster's court jester, trickster and all round funny guy. 0:07:49.760 --> 0:07:52.160 He was so popular he had his own portrait. 0:07:52.520 --> 0:07:52.960 But there's a. 0:07:53.000 --> 0:07:55.720 Darker side to Tom. You've already heard the havoc he 0:07:55.800 --> 0:07:58.160 caused last time when we tried to discuss him with 0:07:58.200 --> 0:08:01.400 the current full of Moncaster Ian. Well, we rearranged our 0:08:01.480 --> 0:08:04.960 chat with Ian, but as you'll hear, it seems we 0:08:04.960 --> 0:08:08.080 weren't quite rid of Tom yet. For some reason, he 0:08:08.120 --> 0:08:11.160 didn't want us wearing headphones. So now and then you 0:08:11.240 --> 0:08:13.600 may hear a bit of an echo min echo min 0:08:13.640 --> 0:08:19.239 Echo mineko leko Ian Douglas has been at Moncaster Castle 0:08:19.320 --> 0:08:22.120 for the past eleven years, and I started by asking 0:08:22.200 --> 0:08:25.440 him the question. I'm sure you're all thinking, so, how 0:08:25.520 --> 0:08:28.960 did you become a jesture? Did you see an ad 0:08:29.000 --> 0:08:31.800 in the paper or did you like go for a 0:08:31.840 --> 0:08:34.240 trip around the castle and just get pissed and fall 0:08:34.280 --> 0:08:36.880 through a window and went, there's our guy. How do 0:08:36.920 --> 0:08:38.440 you like? How did she get the job? 0:08:38.559 --> 0:08:41.400 Well? I think traditionally at Moncaster, certainly over the last 0:08:41.400 --> 0:08:45.199 fifteen years, there's been a competition and fools or the 0:08:45.280 --> 0:08:49.280 performers from around the world have kind of congregated around 0:08:49.360 --> 0:08:52.080 April time and have competed for the title. 0:08:52.320 --> 0:08:54.959 Oh my god, So it's like the full Olympics. 0:08:55.040 --> 0:08:57.160 Yeah, that's it. That's exactly what it is. 0:08:57.240 --> 0:09:00.440 But everyone's lost their running spikes and like the baton's 0:09:00.480 --> 0:09:03.160 gone missing and someone's got javeling through the head. 0:09:03.440 --> 0:09:06.600 Yeah, and I've kind of watched it. I've watched it 0:09:06.679 --> 0:09:08.800 number of times because I've been performing at the castle 0:09:08.880 --> 0:09:11.480 during the during the vessel. But my work's quite different. 0:09:12.000 --> 0:09:14.760 I'm not that kind of gesture. I don't juggle, I 0:09:14.760 --> 0:09:17.280 don't I used to do fire a long time ago, 0:09:17.400 --> 0:09:19.040 but after an accident I stopped doing it. 0:09:19.120 --> 0:09:21.440 Oh God, do I dare I ask what the accident was. 0:09:21.880 --> 0:09:25.040 I was on a boat breathing fire as part of 0:09:25.040 --> 0:09:27.960 a show on derwant Water in Cumbria, and I was 0:09:28.000 --> 0:09:30.839 on a small wooden rib boat and the only way 0:09:30.880 --> 0:09:34.160 I could get leaverage was to ram my feet into 0:09:34.240 --> 0:09:36.760 the corners of the boat. So I had both my 0:09:36.800 --> 0:09:39.280 hands free, and in one hand you have you have 0:09:39.400 --> 0:09:41.520 the fuel, and in the other hand you have a 0:09:41.559 --> 0:09:45.400 fire eating torch and the You put the fuel into 0:09:45.400 --> 0:09:47.559 your mouth and hold it there until the appropriate moment, 0:09:47.600 --> 0:09:50.000 and then you spray it out onto the flaming stick, 0:09:50.080 --> 0:09:54.640 and beautiful things happen. And all was well until we 0:09:55.200 --> 0:09:57.800 went to the I think it was the final rehearsal, 0:09:58.320 --> 0:10:00.839 and two minutes before I was about to put the 0:10:00.880 --> 0:10:04.280 liquid into my mouth, a large boat set off from 0:10:04.280 --> 0:10:06.000 the top of the lake and it sent a wave 0:10:06.400 --> 0:10:09.839 flight coming down towards my boat because I was on 0:10:09.880 --> 0:10:12.120 a tiny little boat, and I put the liquid to 0:10:12.200 --> 0:10:14.760 my lips and the wave hit the boat and I 0:10:14.920 --> 0:10:17.880 rocked to one side and swallowed it and it went 0:10:17.920 --> 0:10:21.520 down to my gardens. And so I was in hospital 0:10:21.520 --> 0:10:22.960 for two weeks with that one. So I now have 0:10:23.040 --> 0:10:26.640 a partial lung here, a part of it doesn't exist anymore. 0:10:26.640 --> 0:10:28.959 So I stopped doing fire breathing at that point. 0:10:29.160 --> 0:10:32.400 Jesus Christ, I wasn't expecting that at all. Yeah, well, 0:10:33.040 --> 0:10:35.439 mad Max meets the perfect storm, the. 0:10:35.440 --> 0:10:38.800 Thing you'll do to make a crust, my friend. But 0:10:38.920 --> 0:10:41.200 I was Yeah, so my act, the stuff I do 0:10:41.280 --> 0:10:43.920 as a performer is quite different. So I've worked for 0:10:44.000 --> 0:10:47.800 the Castle as a performer for over eleven years now, 0:10:48.240 --> 0:10:51.480 and I think two three or just before COVID, actually 0:10:51.920 --> 0:10:58.520 they decided to dispense with the Fool's competition and they 0:10:58.559 --> 0:11:00.720 decided to try and do it a different way. So 0:11:00.720 --> 0:11:03.200 they looked at the people they were working with. So 0:11:03.240 --> 0:11:05.160 the previous fool to me is a guy called Gary 0:11:05.280 --> 0:11:10.560 Bridgings or Gacko. He's a showman performer and he'd entered 0:11:10.559 --> 0:11:12.959 the competition a number of times but never was never 0:11:13.000 --> 0:11:15.719 successful because again, like me, his act wasn't that kind 0:11:15.720 --> 0:11:19.960 of big show acts, more musical and storytelling, right. But 0:11:20.000 --> 0:11:22.600 then I think they wanted a deeper relationship with their fool, 0:11:22.720 --> 0:11:27.240 somebody who was there more prominent and more visual and 0:11:27.360 --> 0:11:30.600 visible at the Castle. So once Gacko finished. 0:11:31.800 --> 0:11:34.280 If I might say less of a gimmicky hack, yes, 0:11:34.360 --> 0:11:35.760 I'm more of an actual artist. 0:11:36.000 --> 0:11:38.800 Yeah, I think so. Yeah, I think that's it. I 0:11:38.800 --> 0:11:40.600 think that's it. And I think somebody that they knew, 0:11:40.679 --> 0:11:42.480 you know, somebody that they knew, would tell them the 0:11:42.520 --> 0:11:46.480 truth and could be involved in thinking about the future 0:11:46.480 --> 0:11:48.360 of the Fool and where it might come. So I 0:11:48.480 --> 0:11:51.000 was just second in line, I suppose because of the 0:11:51.000 --> 0:11:52.920 depth of work I was doing with them. It was 0:11:52.960 --> 0:11:53.920 probably a natural fit. 0:11:54.520 --> 0:11:57.360 And so when you did get the role, what were 0:11:57.400 --> 0:12:00.000 the first sort of main changes you think you brought 0:12:00.320 --> 0:12:03.000 the role. Did you go in and start going, right, 0:12:03.080 --> 0:12:05.079 this needs to go, this needs to go. I want 0:12:05.120 --> 0:12:05.559 to have this. 0:12:05.920 --> 0:12:07.920 Yeah. I think I was just much more interested in 0:12:08.040 --> 0:12:11.199 So the Fools up until now, I think have been 0:12:11.280 --> 0:12:14.480 very much on show at their festivals. Here I am, 0:12:14.600 --> 0:12:17.120 I do my act and I leave again. Whereas the 0:12:17.160 --> 0:12:18.680 first thing I did was put the court on and 0:12:18.720 --> 0:12:21.120 went wandering around the grounds, meeting people and talking to 0:12:21.160 --> 0:12:23.760 people and telling them the stories of the castle, you know, 0:12:23.800 --> 0:12:26.920 and saying, actually, I am the fool of Moncaster. I'm 0:12:26.920 --> 0:12:28.679 a real person. You can come and talk to me. 0:12:28.720 --> 0:12:30.880 And I think that was one of the things I 0:12:30.960 --> 0:12:33.400 think that they were interesting that there was a person 0:12:33.440 --> 0:12:36.600 there that actually could tell stories of depth about the castle, 0:12:36.679 --> 0:12:40.240 about the family, and about what the castle is about, 0:12:40.320 --> 0:12:41.840 if that makes sense, and do it. 0:12:41.720 --> 0:12:43.760 To people on a one on one basis, not just 0:12:43.840 --> 0:12:46.480 in a big show, so it's much more personal vibe. 0:12:46.520 --> 0:12:47.439 Oh that's really lovely. 0:12:47.600 --> 0:12:49.760 Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I think so. Yeah. I mean, 0:12:49.760 --> 0:12:52.640 I am a performer in my own right. I'm a storyteller, 0:12:52.960 --> 0:12:56.440 so I can do big performances for people, but also 0:12:57.480 --> 0:13:00.440 I am very confident and comfortable work in one on 0:13:00.440 --> 0:13:02.560 one with people and saying welcome to the castle, you know, 0:13:02.600 --> 0:13:05.000 and suddenly they've got a face of somebody. And also 0:13:05.160 --> 0:13:07.720 I'm quite well known in the area, so suddenly there's 0:13:07.720 --> 0:13:10.360 a face that people recognize and want to come and see. 0:13:10.400 --> 0:13:12.000 So I think it's that kind of stuff. 0:13:12.440 --> 0:13:14.280 That's what you want in a performer. You want somebody 0:13:14.280 --> 0:13:16.440 who can play the palladium but also just chat your 0:13:16.480 --> 0:13:17.400 ear off down the pub. 0:13:17.480 --> 0:13:20.280 Absolutely, yeah, of course, absolutely, you know, and I've got 0:13:20.320 --> 0:13:21.719 a twinkle in the eye. I know, want to be 0:13:21.800 --> 0:13:24.040 rude and want to be sensible, so I think they 0:13:24.080 --> 0:13:25.000 appreciate that as well. 0:13:25.040 --> 0:13:28.360 I think and you said that a fool's job was 0:13:28.480 --> 0:13:30.480 to slap the face of the king, and he was 0:13:30.520 --> 0:13:32.880 the one member of the court who could view everyone 0:13:32.920 --> 0:13:35.600 as equal. So when it comes to you, say, you 0:13:35.720 --> 0:13:38.840 interact with the tourists and the public a lot, but 0:13:39.000 --> 0:13:42.720 do you ever play tricks on the family? I'm thinking 0:13:42.720 --> 0:13:44.840 of you, and in particular because I know you and 0:13:44.920 --> 0:13:49.080 him have quite the relationship together. And he's quite a 0:13:49.320 --> 0:13:50.400 cheeky guy as well. 0:13:50.559 --> 0:13:53.240 Yeah he is, he is. I haven't played tricks on 0:13:53.320 --> 0:13:55.960 him yet, but I have had to do. You know, 0:13:56.400 --> 0:14:00.280 I'm fifty one these days, and I've got I've got 0:14:00.520 --> 0:14:03.000 we've got four children between me and my wife, and 0:14:03.480 --> 0:14:05.079 I have had to bring my dad voice out on 0:14:05.160 --> 0:14:08.800 him only yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, in a nice way. 0:14:09.040 --> 0:14:11.160 Just you know, he's very new to the row, isn't he. 0:14:11.200 --> 0:14:12.800 And I know he's grown up in the family, but 0:14:13.280 --> 0:14:16.520 actually too, I remember sitting around the kitchen table with 0:14:16.640 --> 0:14:18.320 the whole family. I'm sure he won't mind me telling 0:14:18.360 --> 0:14:21.000 you this, and we were talking about Halloween projects and 0:14:21.040 --> 0:14:22.840 various other things, and I did have to lean across 0:14:22.880 --> 0:14:25.920 and say, now, listen, young man, I'm fifty one years 0:14:25.920 --> 0:14:28.800 of age. Fifty one times around this planet. I've gone 0:14:28.880 --> 0:14:32.120 so listen to my wisdom, and he listened. You know. 0:14:32.600 --> 0:14:34.400 That's what's lovely about you. And you know he is 0:14:34.480 --> 0:14:37.520 new to the role, but he's open and he's listening, 0:14:37.560 --> 0:14:39.880 and he's and he's taking it all in and he'll 0:14:39.880 --> 0:14:41.680 make a great front man. You know. I think the 0:14:41.720 --> 0:14:43.600 castle is in very good hands with you. 0:14:43.680 --> 0:14:48.640 And the role of the fool goes back many, many years, 0:14:48.640 --> 0:14:51.960 but the most famous one is Tom fall. Let's get 0:14:51.960 --> 0:14:55.960 into him. So talk to me about his legend and 0:14:56.040 --> 0:14:58.480 where he came from. How much do you know about him? 0:14:58.840 --> 0:15:03.520 So Skelton, it was a sixteenth century fella. And what's 0:15:03.560 --> 0:15:06.480 really interesting about Tom Skelton It wasn't you know, it 0:15:06.520 --> 0:15:10.280 wasn't just the fool of Moncaster. He was a really 0:15:10.960 --> 0:15:14.000 two sided coin. You know. If he liked you and 0:15:14.080 --> 0:15:16.680 showed favor on you, you know he would he would give 0:15:16.680 --> 0:15:18.880 you hilarity and joy and music. He was a great 0:15:18.880 --> 0:15:22.880 lover of music and pros and he could be, as 0:15:22.960 --> 0:15:26.960 much as I understand it, incredibly charming man. He loved beer, 0:15:27.120 --> 0:15:29.680 he loved good food, he loved good company. But wo 0:15:29.800 --> 0:15:31.800 betide you got on the wrong side of him because 0:15:31.880 --> 0:15:34.560 the flip side of Tom Skelton was that he was 0:15:34.600 --> 0:15:37.200 a murderer. You know, he he was known to. 0:15:37.880 --> 0:15:39.600 I mean that is quite a flip side, isn't it. 0:15:39.640 --> 0:15:42.800 Oh it's a hugeful love poetry. He was into music. 0:15:43.200 --> 0:15:44.360 He also murdered people. 0:15:44.440 --> 0:15:48.520 Yeah, absolutely, you know, he was known to behead people. 0:15:49.480 --> 0:15:52.720 And he's greatest. Yeah, yeah, he beheaded there's the there's 0:15:52.760 --> 0:15:54.480 you'd have to ask you in the full story. But 0:15:54.560 --> 0:15:56.520 he was paid to behead somebody in their sleep. 0:16:07.040 --> 0:16:09.840 Okay, well, we can't just leave that story hanging. I 0:16:09.880 --> 0:16:12.440 asked you about this, and I've got to say, I'm 0:16:12.480 --> 0:16:15.400 not sure i'd want Tom Fall in my employment. This 0:16:15.440 --> 0:16:16.640 guy is a loose cannon. 0:16:16.920 --> 0:16:20.240 So the Lord of Moncaster at the time, his daughter 0:16:20.360 --> 0:16:22.640 was having an affair with the carpenter, and the carpenter 0:16:22.680 --> 0:16:26.080 was awfully kind of embarrassing the family because he was 0:16:26.160 --> 0:16:29.040 going around the local pub's bragging of how he had 0:16:29.040 --> 0:16:31.440 a thing with the lady of the house and she 0:16:31.920 --> 0:16:37.280 was betrothed to a local lord's son, and so that 0:16:37.560 --> 0:16:41.440 was an awful embarrassment. So Tom Fall was asked to 0:16:41.800 --> 0:16:43.560 sort this mess out and he. 0:16:43.680 --> 0:16:45.360 I love, He's a gun for hire. He's like a 0:16:45.400 --> 0:16:47.040 sort of Boba Fett star Wars. 0:16:47.040 --> 0:16:47.920 He was right. 0:16:47.960 --> 0:16:50.560 We he's having done higher the Fall, And I. 0:16:50.480 --> 0:16:53.000 Think this is why he's such an interesting character because 0:16:53.000 --> 0:16:55.280 he was the fool, but he was arguably the manager 0:16:55.320 --> 0:16:57.840 of the estate and also took on loads of other 0:16:57.920 --> 0:17:02.040 roles and jobs, including gun for har as you say. 0:17:02.320 --> 0:17:04.919 And so anyway, he invited the carpenter around, who he 0:17:05.240 --> 0:17:09.720 proceeded to get very drunk, and as the legend goes, 0:17:09.760 --> 0:17:13.000 he then took the carpenter's own hammer and chisel when 0:17:13.040 --> 0:17:16.360 he was drunk and asleep, and proceeded to chisel off 0:17:16.400 --> 0:17:18.439 the carpenter's head and hide it. 0:17:19.720 --> 0:17:23.679 What Hang on a second, This has gone from funny 0:17:23.680 --> 0:17:27.080 little pranks with a painting to quick sam murders. So 0:17:27.080 --> 0:17:29.520 now he's chopping people's heads off with their own tools. 0:17:30.040 --> 0:17:33.800 Yeah, this guy's a lunatic a little bit, But at 0:17:33.800 --> 0:17:36.680 the same time, I think it comes down to what 0:17:36.840 --> 0:17:39.639 was what was done in the sixteenth century versus now. 0:17:41.520 --> 0:17:44.479 He also does a bit of juggling as well, and 0:17:44.560 --> 0:17:48.000 face painting and blue animals, and he will decapitate your enemies. 0:17:49.280 --> 0:17:52.800 Tom Fall, ladies and gentlemen, lover of beer, good food, 0:17:53.040 --> 0:17:59.159 and good company. Also a murdering psychopath available for birthdays 0:17:59.200 --> 0:18:01.879 and barmits. As according to you in the Ghost of 0:18:01.920 --> 0:18:04.360 Tom Fall is very much still present in the castle. 0:18:04.680 --> 0:18:07.880 So I asked Ian if he'd ever witnessed any Tom 0:18:07.960 --> 0:18:08.960 foolery himself. 0:18:09.080 --> 0:18:10.760 I don't believe in ghosts. Let me get this straight. 0:18:10.800 --> 0:18:13.600 I don't believe in ghosts. I have no truck with religion. 0:18:14.320 --> 0:18:16.680 I gave up thinking about those things a long time ago. 0:18:16.880 --> 0:18:19.720 The only thing I believe in on this world that 0:18:19.880 --> 0:18:22.879 is outside of normal, So let's call it supernatural, if 0:18:22.920 --> 0:18:25.440 you like, is the spirit of Tom. And I've been 0:18:25.440 --> 0:18:29.040 around that castle long enough to know that Tom, he 0:18:29.160 --> 0:18:30.920 still walks the carriers up there. 0:18:31.280 --> 0:18:34.479 How do you feel the spirit comes through in the castle? 0:18:34.600 --> 0:18:39.359 I'm imagine like echoing laughter down hallways, or paintings falling 0:18:39.359 --> 0:18:43.080 off stuff, things going wrong, just an energy that you feel. 0:18:43.920 --> 0:18:45.680 So every year we do the big hallowe In piece, 0:18:45.720 --> 0:18:49.160 and it's not a particularly high tech piece of work, 0:18:49.200 --> 0:18:51.920 but it takes people through the castle on a kind 0:18:51.920 --> 0:18:55.640 of haunted tour and it's very successful and it's very 0:18:55.440 --> 0:19:00.440 very very well attended. Last year we went a little 0:19:00.480 --> 0:19:03.760 bit more high tech and we've decided to do the 0:19:03.760 --> 0:19:07.120 whole show in one room with lighting, desks and computers, 0:19:07.119 --> 0:19:08.920 the first time we'd ever done it with proper, real 0:19:09.000 --> 0:19:12.600 tech stuff. And this is all brand new stuff. It's 0:19:12.640 --> 0:19:15.040 all been pack tested, it's all been worked on, and 0:19:15.080 --> 0:19:17.440 everything's absolutely fine. We've got a text dish in place, 0:19:17.480 --> 0:19:22.520 and everything just stopped. Everything stopped ten minutes before the 0:19:22.520 --> 0:19:26.040 audience is about to arrive. Nothing is working, and these 0:19:26.080 --> 0:19:28.400 computers were going flying all over the place. We've got 0:19:28.880 --> 0:19:31.560 remote lights going crazy in the place, and we're thinking, right, 0:19:31.640 --> 0:19:34.800 the audience is five minutes away, and Peter just very 0:19:34.800 --> 0:19:37.760 calmly as we all ran around like headless chickens, just said, 0:19:37.800 --> 0:19:40.880 hang on a second, and he went off. And about 0:19:40.880 --> 0:19:44.640 a minute later everything started working again, and Peter came 0:19:44.680 --> 0:19:46.760 in and he said, it's okay. I've sorted it. And 0:19:46.760 --> 0:19:48.160 I said, well, what did you do? Did you find 0:19:48.200 --> 0:19:50.760 the switch? He said no, I just went and talked 0:19:50.760 --> 0:19:54.760 to Tom and somebody had turned Tom's portrait light off 0:19:54.760 --> 0:19:56.679 as a portrait light above his head, and somebody had 0:19:56.840 --> 0:19:59.480 accidentally turned it off. He said to I've switched it 0:19:59.520 --> 0:20:01.600 back on and lit some candles and I asked Tom 0:20:01.640 --> 0:20:05.200 to please allow the show to can continue. We haven't 0:20:05.200 --> 0:20:07.960 forgotten about him, and I swear down. Everything came back 0:20:08.000 --> 0:20:11.680 on and it ran absolutely perfectly until the third night 0:20:12.440 --> 0:20:15.200 a child had been in the building and again had 0:20:15.200 --> 0:20:18.000