1
00:00:00,040 --> 00:00:03,360
Speaker 1: The coin Bureau Podcast is a production of I Heart Radio.

2
00:00:03,840 --> 00:00:05,960
Speaker 1: Once we launched the site, which would have been in December,

3
00:00:07,240 --> 00:00:09,720
Speaker 1: within about a month we organically had about a hundred

4
00:00:09,720 --> 00:00:13,160
Speaker 1: and fifty thou unique users coming to the website. So

5
00:00:13,160 --> 00:00:14,760
Speaker 1: so that was really the prime time, as we know

6
00:00:14,840 --> 00:00:18,840
Speaker 1: to December and January where where we really had those

7
00:00:18,840 --> 00:00:21,279
Speaker 1: blow off the top moments and the retail menia was

8
00:00:21,600 --> 00:00:25,840
Speaker 1: at its craziest. So the timing was perfect, yeah, yeah,

9
00:00:25,960 --> 00:00:29,920
Speaker 1: and then of course Bear Market kicked in, timing was

10
00:00:29,960 --> 00:00:46,960
Speaker 1: not perfect. Welcome everyone to the coin Bureau Podcast. My

11
00:00:47,080 --> 00:00:50,680
Speaker 1: name is Guy. This gentleman's name is mad Mike Mooch,

12
00:00:51,320 --> 00:00:54,200
Speaker 1: and we are very very fortunate to be joined today

13
00:00:54,320 --> 00:00:56,200
Speaker 1: by one of the first ever guests on the coin

14
00:00:56,240 --> 00:01:00,400
Speaker 1: Bureau Podcast, none other than Nate white Hill, the founder

15
00:01:00,440 --> 00:01:03,720
Speaker 1: and CEO of crypto Slate. Nate, thank you so much

16
00:01:03,760 --> 00:01:05,759
Speaker 1: for joining us. Thanks so much for having me. Guys,

17
00:01:05,760 --> 00:01:08,200
Speaker 1: it's honored to be here. Likewise, it's an honored to

18
00:01:08,240 --> 00:01:11,679
Speaker 1: have you. And yeah for anyone, for anyone who hasn't

19
00:01:11,720 --> 00:01:15,280
Speaker 1: heard of crypto Slate before. Crypto Slate is a crypto

20
00:01:15,440 --> 00:01:20,720
Speaker 1: news and information opinion data platform. It's an amazing resource

21
00:01:20,800 --> 00:01:23,199
Speaker 1: It's one of the first places I go every morning,

22
00:01:23,760 --> 00:01:25,800
Speaker 1: you know, when I switch on my computer, you know,

23
00:01:26,080 --> 00:01:28,280
Speaker 1: crypto Slate is right up there, you know, to go

24
00:01:28,360 --> 00:01:30,760
Speaker 1: and get to go and see what's happening in the space,

25
00:01:31,200 --> 00:01:33,320
Speaker 1: get an idea, and you know, I switched it on

26
00:01:33,360 --> 00:01:38,120
Speaker 1: and just hope that it's good news. Thank you. It's

27
00:01:38,480 --> 00:01:40,679
Speaker 1: there's not a lot of good news around at the moment.

28
00:01:40,720 --> 00:01:44,680
Speaker 1: But so no, yeah, so tell me you obviously, as

29
00:01:44,720 --> 00:01:47,200
Speaker 1: I say, you're the founder of crypto slate, can you

30
00:01:47,240 --> 00:01:49,480
Speaker 1: tell us just a little bit about your background and

31
00:01:49,520 --> 00:01:52,400
Speaker 1: how you came came to tank, came to found it. Sure.

32
00:01:52,480 --> 00:01:55,560
Speaker 1: So I've been, I would say, pretty deeply involved in

33
00:01:55,600 --> 00:01:59,840
Speaker 1: the crypto space. Sum I previously had a tech back

34
00:02:00,000 --> 00:02:02,880
Speaker 1: on so I had started in launched a handful of

35
00:02:02,920 --> 00:02:05,840
Speaker 1: technology businesses over over the past decade and a half

36
00:02:05,960 --> 00:02:09,760
Speaker 1: or so. Uh. Some of them raised capital, others were

37
00:02:09,840 --> 00:02:11,760
Speaker 1: just kind of you know a combination of product and

38
00:02:11,760 --> 00:02:16,080
Speaker 1: service businesses, and did some consultation. But in fifteen, I

39
00:02:16,120 --> 00:02:18,720
Speaker 1: was living in Seattle and one of my best friends,

40
00:02:18,960 --> 00:02:21,560
Speaker 1: who's a hedge fund manager in the traditional finance space,

41
00:02:21,960 --> 00:02:25,320
Speaker 1: told me to download coin base and had no idea

42
00:02:25,400 --> 00:02:27,240
Speaker 1: what it was just thought, oh, you know, this is

43
00:02:27,240 --> 00:02:29,679
Speaker 1: a place where you buy a cryptocurrency. Hadn't really done

44
00:02:29,720 --> 00:02:33,440
Speaker 1: too much research or deep diving into crypto, but as

45
00:02:33,480 --> 00:02:35,440
Speaker 1: soon as I bought my first bitcoin, I felt kind

46
00:02:35,440 --> 00:02:38,560
Speaker 1: of invested in the ecosystem. The prices around two and

47
00:02:38,600 --> 00:02:42,320
Speaker 1: seventy dollars at the time, so it had come down

48
00:02:42,360 --> 00:02:45,600
Speaker 1: from about a peak of a thousand dollars, So this

49
00:02:45,680 --> 00:02:49,880
Speaker 1: is right, you know, kind of summertime. Um. Soon afterwards,

50
00:02:49,880 --> 00:02:53,480
Speaker 1: one of the bitcoin core developers named Mike Hearn wrote

51
00:02:53,480 --> 00:02:56,400
Speaker 1: a pretty scathing post about bitcoin, calling it a fair

52
00:02:56,639 --> 00:02:59,480
Speaker 1: field experiment. So there was a lot of fun at

53
00:02:59,480 --> 00:03:02,600
Speaker 1: the time. Everyone was still questioning, like, is this industry

54
00:03:02,600 --> 00:03:04,720
Speaker 1: you're going to exist? Is it going to be around?

55
00:03:04,880 --> 00:03:06,320
Speaker 1: I had a lot of faith in it because of

56
00:03:06,320 --> 00:03:08,840
Speaker 1: coin based. Coin Base was a very easy to use app.

57
00:03:09,280 --> 00:03:11,200
Speaker 1: It was a great experience. It was really kind of

58
00:03:11,240 --> 00:03:13,160
Speaker 1: the go to place, I feel like for a lot

59
00:03:13,160 --> 00:03:16,080
Speaker 1: of people that were first kind of getting into crypto. Yeah,

60
00:03:16,240 --> 00:03:19,200
Speaker 1: especially I think after after Mount Cox as well, you know,

61
00:03:19,280 --> 00:03:21,720
Speaker 1: people were so is it people coming to because I

62
00:03:21,720 --> 00:03:24,519
Speaker 1: remember that I I I sort of discovered bitcoin sort

63
00:03:24,520 --> 00:03:27,760
Speaker 1: of at about the time that mount Gox was imploding,

64
00:03:28,440 --> 00:03:31,400
Speaker 1: and it was something that you know, it really made

65
00:03:31,400 --> 00:03:33,440
Speaker 1: me kind of back away for a bit because it

66
00:03:33,520 --> 00:03:35,680
Speaker 1: was just like, you know, this is so, this is

67
00:03:35,680 --> 00:03:38,880
Speaker 1: so insanely risky, not realizing at the time obviously that

68
00:03:38,920 --> 00:03:40,440
Speaker 1: you know, it wasn't that it wasn't a fact that

69
00:03:40,480 --> 00:03:43,160
Speaker 1: bitcoin itself was risky. It was this service that we

70
00:03:43,160 --> 00:03:45,840
Speaker 1: were using to interact with bitcoin, to get our hands

71
00:03:45,840 --> 00:03:47,760
Speaker 1: on bitcoin, that was that was risky, and you know,

72
00:03:47,800 --> 00:03:50,120
Speaker 1: that was that was a really important lesson. But it's

73
00:03:50,160 --> 00:03:52,640
Speaker 1: interesting that you say that you you were kind of

74
00:03:52,840 --> 00:03:54,520
Speaker 1: so you were kind of led to it by someone

75
00:03:54,600 --> 00:03:57,720
Speaker 1: because as you say, you're you're a tech background, but

76
00:03:57,800 --> 00:03:59,560
Speaker 1: you were led to it by someone a friend of

77
00:03:59,560 --> 00:04:02,720
Speaker 1: yours who was actually working in finance. Yes, exactly. And

78
00:04:03,080 --> 00:04:05,040
Speaker 1: I had first heard a bitcoin probably in two thousand

79
00:04:05,120 --> 00:04:08,360
Speaker 1: twelve or so. I was running another company called Highlighter

80
00:04:08,400 --> 00:04:10,800
Speaker 1: dot com, which was in the education technology world. But

81
00:04:11,200 --> 00:04:13,160
Speaker 1: at the time, you know, two thousand and twelve, just

82
00:04:13,680 --> 00:04:15,920
Speaker 1: saw it heard, you know, had red headlines on it,

83
00:04:15,960 --> 00:04:19,080
Speaker 1: but didn't really take it seriously. But when came around,

84
00:04:19,279 --> 00:04:22,599
Speaker 1: um I knew it was obviously previously came from a

85
00:04:22,680 --> 00:04:25,880
Speaker 1: high around thousand dollars. I believe this would have been

86
00:04:25,960 --> 00:04:29,599
Speaker 1: kind of November. December two thousand, fourteen or so was

87
00:04:29,640 --> 00:04:31,800
Speaker 1: when it hit its previous high, so I thought, oh,

88
00:04:31,839 --> 00:04:34,440
Speaker 1: there's there's some potential to, you know, hope it get

89
00:04:34,480 --> 00:04:37,640
Speaker 1: back to its all time highst um. About six months

90
00:04:37,720 --> 00:04:40,560
Speaker 1: or so afterwards, after I first bought bitcoin, coin Base

91
00:04:40,560 --> 00:04:42,520
Speaker 1: added Ethereum too, and this is where my mind really

92
00:04:42,520 --> 00:04:45,560
Speaker 1: started to go deeper down the rabbit hole about you know,

93
00:04:45,720 --> 00:04:48,160
Speaker 1: Bitcoin did one thing really well. It seemed like kind

94
00:04:48,200 --> 00:04:51,679
Speaker 1: of be digital gold or potentially hedge against inflation, although

95
00:04:51,680 --> 00:04:55,720
Speaker 1: I'm not sure we can call it that, and its right, yeah,

96
00:04:55,800 --> 00:04:58,480
Speaker 1: but but Ethereum, you know, really kind of intrigued me.

97
00:04:58,600 --> 00:05:01,880
Speaker 1: And at that point I was learning about the Ethereum

98
00:05:01,920 --> 00:05:04,839
Speaker 1: Enterprise Alliance, which was developing all these partnerships with some

99
00:05:04,839 --> 00:05:07,200
Speaker 1: of the biggest companies in the world, like Microsoft, for example,

100
00:05:07,560 --> 00:05:09,520
Speaker 1: and that's when I really started to go, Okay, this

101
00:05:09,560 --> 00:05:12,680
Speaker 1: is something that is much more than just digital money.

102
00:05:12,680 --> 00:05:15,520
Speaker 1: It's digital application in a decentralized way. And that's kind

103
00:05:15,520 --> 00:05:18,000
Speaker 1: of at the point where I started spending tons of

104
00:05:18,040 --> 00:05:21,800
Speaker 1: time on coin coin desk, coin telegraph, coin market gap

105
00:05:21,839 --> 00:05:25,279
Speaker 1: and kind of seeing the world from to two perspectives,

106
00:05:25,279 --> 00:05:27,680
Speaker 1: like the qualitative side, like the news and analysis, and

107
00:05:27,720 --> 00:05:29,960
Speaker 1: the quantitative side like being able to look at the

108
00:05:29,960 --> 00:05:33,200
Speaker 1: prices and the forecasts and the volumes, all all the

109
00:05:33,400 --> 00:05:36,279
Speaker 1: you know, actual quantitative data. So it was at that

110
00:05:36,360 --> 00:05:39,320
Speaker 1: moment with my tech background, that I realized this might

111
00:05:39,360 --> 00:05:41,640
Speaker 1: be a good idea for me to build something myself

112
00:05:41,640 --> 00:05:46,080
Speaker 1: that combined the qualitative and the quantitative, right, And so obviously, yeah,

113
00:05:46,200 --> 00:05:50,000
Speaker 1: with a with a tech background, you presumably it wasn't

114
00:05:50,320 --> 00:05:52,240
Speaker 1: It wasn't much of a stretch for you to kind of,

115
00:05:52,400 --> 00:05:54,279
Speaker 1: you know, for you to have that lightbulb moment for

116
00:05:54,279 --> 00:05:57,720
Speaker 1: it to kind of all click and make sense. Yeah, exactly.

117
00:05:57,800 --> 00:06:00,200
Speaker 1: We were at the time the first website it that

118
00:06:00,279 --> 00:06:02,599
Speaker 1: was trying to do a combination of the news and

119
00:06:02,640 --> 00:06:05,520
Speaker 1: analysis but also have a full directory of all the

120
00:06:05,520 --> 00:06:08,640
Speaker 1: crypto assets. Um, so we integrated with quite a few

121
00:06:08,640 --> 00:06:11,320
Speaker 1: a p I s we started building out the site

122
00:06:11,360 --> 00:06:14,559
Speaker 1: all in WordPress. I've been using WordPress since two thousand six,

123
00:06:15,080 --> 00:06:17,320
Speaker 1: so we've built a lot of different sites on WordPress.

124
00:06:17,360 --> 00:06:19,440
Speaker 1: We've kind of seen it grows so much as a

125
00:06:19,480 --> 00:06:22,840
Speaker 1: content management system. So the original idea was to have

126
00:06:23,040 --> 00:06:27,760
Speaker 1: all of the digital assets inside WordPress as as objects

127
00:06:27,800 --> 00:06:29,880
Speaker 1: in the same way that news posts are objects. So

128
00:06:30,240 --> 00:06:32,640
Speaker 1: by being able to link to the objects to each other.

129
00:06:33,040 --> 00:06:35,240
Speaker 1: We we had the goal of being able to provide

130
00:06:35,279 --> 00:06:38,000
Speaker 1: more context for if you read an article about a

131
00:06:38,000 --> 00:06:41,640
Speaker 1: particular cryptocurrency and you see real time chart, real time price,

132
00:06:42,000 --> 00:06:44,600
Speaker 1: real time description of what this crypto asset is. So

133
00:06:45,360 --> 00:06:47,720
Speaker 1: trying to combine the qualitative and the quantitative. I keep

134
00:06:47,720 --> 00:06:49,640
Speaker 1: coming back to that, but I think it's something for

135
00:06:49,680 --> 00:06:51,159
Speaker 1: a lot of people when they get into the space,

136
00:06:51,200 --> 00:06:54,600
Speaker 1: they're so overwhelmed by by you one aspect of that,

137
00:06:54,680 --> 00:06:57,760
Speaker 1: but trying to simplify it was our goal initially. Yeah,

138
00:06:57,839 --> 00:07:00,120
Speaker 1: so that was the that was the inspiration behind it.

139
00:07:00,279 --> 00:07:04,520
Speaker 1: And then so you launched in Is that right? Because

140
00:07:04,760 --> 00:07:06,680
Speaker 1: Mike and I have been discussing sort of, you know,

141
00:07:06,720 --> 00:07:09,320
Speaker 1: the history of crypto in previous episodes, and I think

142
00:07:10,120 --> 00:07:13,320
Speaker 1: seen we we talked about in the context of Ethereum,

143
00:07:13,360 --> 00:07:17,000
Speaker 1: and obviously it's just such a crazy time with I

144
00:07:17,000 --> 00:07:19,000
Speaker 1: mean with I c o s sort of happening every

145
00:07:19,080 --> 00:07:23,960
Speaker 1: week and these insane numbers flying around, and so I mean, yeah,

146
00:07:24,000 --> 00:07:26,680
Speaker 1: it's obviously it was obviously a sort of prime time

147
00:07:26,760 --> 00:07:29,360
Speaker 1: for to launch this service, you know, to to launch

148
00:07:29,440 --> 00:07:31,760
Speaker 1: this platform and there were so many people obviously clamoring

149
00:07:31,800 --> 00:07:35,680
Speaker 1: to get that information. So so you launched in se

150
00:07:36,080 --> 00:07:39,000
Speaker 1: and you were you were obviously building the site yourself,

151
00:07:39,400 --> 00:07:41,880
Speaker 1: and were you were you writing for it as well

152
00:07:41,960 --> 00:07:44,119
Speaker 1: or were you having to were you getting other people

153
00:07:44,320 --> 00:07:46,040
Speaker 1: on board at that point? So the one thing I

154
00:07:46,080 --> 00:07:49,239
Speaker 1: never did was actually write any articles. We I built

155
00:07:49,280 --> 00:07:51,240
Speaker 1: the site myself. We did a lot of the data

156
00:07:51,320 --> 00:07:53,960
Speaker 1: entry ourselves too. So at the time, there was around

157
00:07:54,000 --> 00:07:57,200
Speaker 1: eight coins on coin market cap, and I personally went

158
00:07:57,240 --> 00:08:00,360
Speaker 1: to every single asset on coin market cap and went

159
00:08:00,360 --> 00:08:02,640
Speaker 1: to the website. I was really like trying to do

160
00:08:02,680 --> 00:08:04,920
Speaker 1: a very thorough deep dive into what are these eight

161
00:08:04,960 --> 00:08:08,280
Speaker 1: hundred different assets, are they legit? Like is the website

162
00:08:08,280 --> 00:08:11,120
Speaker 1: even up still? Like what's happening? So we did a

163
00:08:11,120 --> 00:08:13,320
Speaker 1: lot of very kind of just early initial research and

164
00:08:13,360 --> 00:08:15,920
Speaker 1: then um, once we launched the site, which would have

165
00:08:15,920 --> 00:08:19,720
Speaker 1: been in December, within about a month, we organically had

166
00:08:19,760 --> 00:08:22,440
Speaker 1: about a hundred and fifty thousand unique users coming to

167
00:08:22,440 --> 00:08:25,040
Speaker 1: the website. So so that was really the prime time,

168
00:08:25,040 --> 00:08:28,960
Speaker 1: as we know to December and January where where we

169
00:08:29,000 --> 00:08:30,920
Speaker 1: really had those blow off the top moments and the

170
00:08:30,920 --> 00:08:36,520
Speaker 1: retail mania was at its craziest. So the timing was perfect, Yeah, yeah,

171
00:08:36,600 --> 00:08:40,560
Speaker 1: and then of course bear market kicked in. Timing was

172
00:08:40,600 --> 00:08:45,960
Speaker 1: not perfect. Getting I think getting timing timing right in

173
00:08:46,040 --> 00:08:49,200
Speaker 1: crypto is is as difficult as in you know, as

174
00:08:49,320 --> 00:08:52,000
Speaker 1: as as in any other sector, isn't it, because you know,

175
00:08:52,800 --> 00:08:55,520
Speaker 1: it can change so quickly, and and that and that

176
00:08:55,640 --> 00:08:58,240
Speaker 1: moment in kind of eighteen when it just sort of

177
00:08:58,240 --> 00:09:00,559
Speaker 1: fell off a cliffs So, I mean must have been

178
00:09:00,679 --> 00:09:03,960
Speaker 1: that must have been tough because presumably you know, you

179
00:09:04,000 --> 00:09:06,840
Speaker 1: saw you saw you know, hits to the site decline

180
00:09:06,880 --> 00:09:10,880
Speaker 1: as as kind of especially retail interests fell off. So

181
00:09:11,040 --> 00:09:12,959
Speaker 1: how was that? Yeah, I mean that must have been

182
00:09:12,960 --> 00:09:14,840
Speaker 1: a sort of you know, a couple of years at

183
00:09:14,880 --> 00:09:18,360
Speaker 1: least of of sort of very hard work with not

184
00:09:18,440 --> 00:09:22,840
Speaker 1: quite as as the returns that you perhaps used to. Yeah. Absolutely, really,

185
00:09:22,880 --> 00:09:26,319
Speaker 1: I would say wasn't until maybe like September October of

186
00:09:26,480 --> 00:09:29,000
Speaker 1: twenty eighteen that we realized we're definitely not we don't

187
00:09:29,000 --> 00:09:30,800
Speaker 1: have a ball market coming around the corner like we

188
00:09:30,880 --> 00:09:34,560
Speaker 1: thought for basically the first you know, nine months of

189
00:09:34,600 --> 00:09:37,600
Speaker 1: the year of after the blow off the top, everyone thought, oh,

190
00:09:37,679 --> 00:09:40,599
Speaker 1: ball markets right around the corner again. People like Novigrats

191
00:09:40,640 --> 00:09:44,520
Speaker 1: are making predictions that bitcoin would hit you again that year.

192
00:09:44,559 --> 00:09:48,320
Speaker 1: There was lots of you know, bullish but bullshit predictions.

193
00:09:48,800 --> 00:09:51,600
Speaker 1: I think most of them are seemed very fine line.

194
00:09:52,360 --> 00:09:54,600
Speaker 1: No one really knows exactly what's going on with it,

195
00:09:54,600 --> 00:09:56,800
Speaker 1: and it's yeah, everyone just pulls a figure out there,

196
00:09:56,840 --> 00:09:58,839
Speaker 1: ars and and and it's sort of the same with

197
00:09:58,880 --> 00:10:02,520
Speaker 1: the fund. It just that seems to be regurgitated every

198
00:10:02,559 --> 00:10:06,800
Speaker 1: every cycle, the same articles, the same of just different times. Yeah,

199
00:10:06,880 --> 00:10:10,000
Speaker 1: And I think that that really is why sites like

200
00:10:10,120 --> 00:10:13,679
Speaker 1: crypto Slate are so important, really because everyone's sort of

201
00:10:13,679 --> 00:10:16,000
Speaker 1: clamoring for a prediction. Oh, you know, where are we

202
00:10:16,040 --> 00:10:18,400
Speaker 1: going to be next month? How when's bitcoin going to

203
00:10:18,480 --> 00:10:21,040
Speaker 1: get to six figures or something like that. And the

204
00:10:21,080 --> 00:10:25,080
Speaker 1: short answer is that no one knows. You know, I

205
00:10:25,160 --> 00:10:27,880
Speaker 1: don't know, you don't know. Nobody knows because we we

206
00:10:28,000 --> 00:10:29,959
Speaker 1: just we can't predict the future. I mean, we can

207
00:10:29,960 --> 00:10:32,160
Speaker 1: look at our we can look at the charts, we

208
00:10:32,200 --> 00:10:34,800
Speaker 1: can look at the news coming out of places like

209
00:10:34,840 --> 00:10:38,199
Speaker 1: the Federal Reserve, and we can make educated guesses. But

210
00:10:38,280 --> 00:10:40,679
Speaker 1: you know, there seemed to be especially in the in

211
00:10:40,679 --> 00:10:44,360
Speaker 1: that kind of mania of seen like people just wanted

212
00:10:44,400 --> 00:10:47,000
Speaker 1: to people just wanted the crystal ball sort of treatment.

213
00:10:47,480 --> 00:10:50,040
Speaker 1: But I guess, you know, the important thing is just

214
00:10:50,120 --> 00:10:53,360
Speaker 1: to get that, to get the information that's out there

215
00:10:53,440 --> 00:10:55,640
Speaker 1: and and present it in a way that you know,

216
00:10:55,720 --> 00:10:57,920
Speaker 1: someone who doesn't want to go digging across half the

217
00:10:57,920 --> 00:11:00,200
Speaker 1: Internet to find it that they you know, they have

218
00:11:00,360 --> 00:11:02,920
Speaker 1: access to that and they and can make their own

219
00:11:03,120 --> 00:11:06,240
Speaker 1: draw their own conclusions from what they read. Yeah. Absolutely,

220
00:11:06,280 --> 00:11:11,320
Speaker 1: that eighteen to time period was was tough in the

221
00:11:11,360 --> 00:11:14,280
Speaker 1: sense that we knew the market would come back eventually,

222
00:11:14,320 --> 00:11:16,320
Speaker 1: we just didn't know when. But we had to you know,

223
00:11:16,440 --> 00:11:19,400
Speaker 1: run as lean as possible, Unlike a handful of other

224
00:11:19,880 --> 00:11:22,160
Speaker 1: crypto media that started during the time, like The Block

225
00:11:22,200 --> 00:11:26,960
Speaker 1: and crypt Crypto Briefing. Uh. The Block and Crypto Briefing

226
00:11:27,000 --> 00:11:29,679
Speaker 1: both raised venture capital at the time, and decrypt was

227
00:11:29,720 --> 00:11:32,720
Speaker 1: a spin out of Consensus, so they kind of had we.

228
00:11:32,720 --> 00:11:34,800
Speaker 1: We raised a very small round when we first started

229
00:11:34,800 --> 00:11:37,640
Speaker 1: from friends and family, but for us to continue during

230
00:11:37,679 --> 00:11:41,200
Speaker 1: that time and run as a business was tough. But

231
00:11:41,800 --> 00:11:45,240
Speaker 1: what we emerged into with the recent bullmarket and how

232
00:11:45,280 --> 00:11:47,720
Speaker 1: strong we are now, it's all been worth it in

233
00:11:47,840 --> 00:11:50,640
Speaker 1: terms of the you know, it was a struggle entrepreneurially,

234
00:11:50,840 --> 00:11:53,400
Speaker 1: but now especially over the past year and a half

235
00:11:53,400 --> 00:11:56,400
Speaker 1: now things have been incredibly strong. So that's one piece

236
00:11:56,400 --> 00:11:58,880
Speaker 1: of advice I'd have for anyone that is in in

237
00:11:58,920 --> 00:12:02,120
Speaker 1: this bear market is about what you can do during

238
00:12:02,120 --> 00:12:04,280
Speaker 1: this time to pass the time, not just you know,

239
00:12:04,320 --> 00:12:07,840
Speaker 1: focus on short term price movements, are trying to trying

240
00:12:07,880 --> 00:12:09,760
Speaker 1: to figure out what the next prediction is that might

241
00:12:09,800 --> 00:12:13,200
Speaker 1: come true, but to build something that gives oneself a

242
00:12:13,240 --> 00:12:16,200
Speaker 1: sense of purpose or value during what is, you know,

243
00:12:16,400 --> 00:12:19,679
Speaker 1: an unknown period of uncertainty for the industry. Yeah, and

244
00:12:19,840 --> 00:12:22,240
Speaker 1: and yeah, I mean it really is unknown, isn't it.

245
00:12:22,280 --> 00:12:25,040
Speaker 1: We again, the predictions are kind of flying around. Oh

246
00:12:25,080 --> 00:12:27,080
Speaker 1: it'll be you know, it'll be over by the end

247
00:12:27,080 --> 00:12:28,719
Speaker 1: of the year. Oh it could be another couple of

248
00:12:28,800 --> 00:12:31,160
Speaker 1: years at least. Yeah, and and I mean, I guess yeah.

249
00:12:31,160 --> 00:12:33,000
Speaker 1: This is a message that we've been we've been talking

250
00:12:33,000 --> 00:12:34,880
Speaker 1: about with a few people. You know, it's to try

251
00:12:34,880 --> 00:12:38,239
Speaker 1: and try and see this bear market as an opportunity,

252
00:12:38,600 --> 00:12:40,760
Speaker 1: which is what it is, you know, an opportunity to

253
00:12:40,880 --> 00:12:43,080
Speaker 1: build and that you know, that sounds to me like

254
00:12:43,240 --> 00:12:46,959
Speaker 1: is what you were able to do in very much

255
00:12:47,000 --> 00:12:49,560
Speaker 1: kind of heads down, filter out. I mean, there wasn't

256
00:12:49,600 --> 00:12:51,480
Speaker 1: really any hype to filter out, I guess, you know,

257
00:12:51,559 --> 00:12:54,640
Speaker 1: and it's just concentrate on on making this thing as

258
00:12:54,840 --> 00:12:56,400
Speaker 1: as good as you can make it. There's a lot

259
00:12:56,440 --> 00:12:59,640
Speaker 1: of parallels between sort of a bear market in like

260
00:12:59,679 --> 00:13:02,520
Speaker 1: a risk session, you know, like where if you if

261
00:13:02,559 --> 00:13:05,839
Speaker 1: your business can be be lean and make it through

262
00:13:05,880 --> 00:13:08,480
Speaker 1: a session and then come out with the other side,

263
00:13:08,800 --> 00:13:10,320
Speaker 1: you're going to be set up well. And it sounds

264
00:13:10,360 --> 00:13:12,440
Speaker 1: quite similar to how you know, you you you had

265
00:13:12,480 --> 00:13:15,960
Speaker 1: like the boom period around that Christmas and then the

266
00:13:16,000 --> 00:13:18,280
Speaker 1: bum fell out of the market and and but you

267
00:13:18,320 --> 00:13:20,480
Speaker 1: were able to carry on, I suppose because you were

268
00:13:20,480 --> 00:13:23,920
Speaker 1: probably quite quite new, quite small, quite agile, and then

269
00:13:24,320 --> 00:13:27,840
Speaker 1: grow grow when it's lean and then and really sort

270
00:13:27,840 --> 00:13:31,800
Speaker 1: of explode when it's when it's a rich. Yeah. Absolutely

271
00:13:31,840 --> 00:13:34,079
Speaker 1: it was. It was challenging. But now when I look

272
00:13:34,120 --> 00:13:36,000
Speaker 1: back at it, I'm so glad that we went through

273
00:13:36,000 --> 00:13:38,440
Speaker 1: it because we as we were talking about, you know earlier,

274
00:13:38,480 --> 00:13:40,720
Speaker 1: when starting a podcast, it's like you don't really know

275
00:13:40,760 --> 00:13:42,400
Speaker 1: the mistakes you're gonna make until you make them, and

276
00:13:42,440 --> 00:13:44,080
Speaker 1: you have to kind of learn along the way. And

277
00:13:44,120 --> 00:13:46,480
Speaker 1: the same was true for a media business for having

278
00:13:46,679 --> 00:13:50,280
Speaker 1: you know, people that are that we're responsible for or

279
00:13:50,360 --> 00:13:53,320
Speaker 1: responsible for producing content for cryptos late all over the

280
00:13:53,320 --> 00:13:56,080
Speaker 1: world and wanting them to do well, and um, you know,

281
00:13:56,400 --> 00:13:58,640
Speaker 1: it was it was definitely, it was tricky, but it

282
00:13:58,720 --> 00:14:01,440
Speaker 1: was so rewarding to really be in the last ball

283
00:14:01,440 --> 00:14:04,920
Speaker 1: market that we are and now, you know, having experienced

284
00:14:04,920 --> 00:14:08,199
Speaker 1: a few different ball and bear cycles, I know it's

285
00:14:08,240 --> 00:14:10,560
Speaker 1: just a matter of time before the cycle turns. Whether

286
00:14:10,600 --> 00:14:15,760
Speaker 1: it's who knows, Yeah, there's nothing like there's nothing like

287
00:14:15,840 --> 00:14:21,040
Speaker 1: bitter experiences there, and it's just it's reassuring to to think, well,

288
00:14:21,160 --> 00:14:23,360
Speaker 1: we've been there before. You know, Okay, this may be

289
00:14:23,560 --> 00:14:26,520
Speaker 1: this may be bad. We may have had some unexpected

290
00:14:26,560 --> 00:14:29,360
Speaker 1: and nasty surprises this time around, but we have we

291
00:14:29,440 --> 00:14:32,080
Speaker 1: have been covered this ground before, and I think that's

292
00:14:32,120 --> 00:14:35,080
Speaker 1: that's really important for for people new to crypto who this,

293
00:14:35,200 --> 00:14:37,240
Speaker 1: you know, I think many of them this will be

294
00:14:37,320 --> 00:14:39,880
Speaker 1: their first, their first bear market, their first sort of

295
00:14:40,040 --> 00:14:44,280
Speaker 1: really testing testing time. Absolutely. Yeah. So tell me, Nate,

296
00:14:44,320 --> 00:14:47,520
Speaker 1: So what's your what's your role at crypto Slate day

297
00:14:47,520 --> 00:14:50,800
Speaker 1: to day now? So right now I'm managing a few

298
00:14:50,800 --> 00:14:54,080
Speaker 1: different areas within crypto Slate, So I'm kind of managing

299
00:14:54,160 --> 00:14:56,720
Speaker 1: the editorial team. I'm not really involved in editorial on

300
00:14:56,760 --> 00:14:59,880
Speaker 1: a day to day basis. But um, that's something that's

301
00:15:00,320 --> 00:15:02,560
Speaker 1: the kind of the the heart for what's cryptos l

302
00:15:02,560 --> 00:15:06,000
Speaker 1: it is. We're an editorial operation that produces news articles

303
00:15:06,040 --> 00:15:10,480
Speaker 1: every day, um, anywhere from ten to twenty articles on

304
00:15:10,520 --> 00:15:13,320
Speaker 1: a daily basis about different topics which our team of

305
00:15:13,400 --> 00:15:16,960
Speaker 1: journalists find interesting. So we're we're constantly on the search

306
00:15:17,160 --> 00:15:20,360
Speaker 1: for what is an interesting, compelling piece of news that

307
00:15:20,520 --> 00:15:22,880
Speaker 1: hasn't been told yet, or if it has been told

308
00:15:22,960 --> 00:15:25,040
Speaker 1: or has been shared as a piece of news, how

309
00:15:25,080 --> 00:15:27,880
Speaker 1: can we bring it differentiated angle to it. So, so

310
00:15:27,920 --> 00:15:30,640
Speaker 1: that's kind of one aspect is the editorial. I also, um,

311
00:15:30,680 --> 00:15:34,720
Speaker 1: I'm a programmer by for the past cautions I was

312
00:15:34,760 --> 00:15:37,840
Speaker 1: eleven years old basics. So yeah, I've been building lots

313
00:15:37,840 --> 00:15:40,840
Speaker 1: of different websites over the years. Um, only been working

314
00:15:40,880 --> 00:15:42,760
Speaker 1: on cryptoc Light now. This has been the longest business

315
00:15:42,760 --> 00:15:44,720
Speaker 1: and the longest kind of code base that I've been

316
00:15:44,720 --> 00:15:47,760
Speaker 1: operating on now for almost five years. UM. So I

317
00:15:47,800 --> 00:15:49,440
Speaker 1: do a little bit of coding here and there where.

318
00:15:49,440 --> 00:15:52,920
Speaker 1: We're also in the process of fundraising, uh kind of

319
00:15:52,960 --> 00:15:55,640
Speaker 1: managed the sales team. So it's a lot of different

320
00:15:55,680 --> 00:15:57,640
Speaker 1: you know CEO stuff, but as much as I can

321
00:15:57,640 --> 00:16:00,280
Speaker 1: sprinkle in the programming and the coding side. That's something

322
00:16:00,320 --> 00:16:03,280
Speaker 1: that I enjoy so much. It's just there's a dopamine

323
00:16:03,320 --> 00:16:07,720
Speaker 1: feedback loop about coding, and I think, you know what,

324
00:16:07,800 --> 00:16:10,120
Speaker 1: maybe if I, if I knew had a buddy code,

325
00:16:10,640 --> 00:16:14,360
Speaker 1: I can see how it might be. Yeah. Absolutely so.

326
00:16:14,440 --> 00:16:16,560
Speaker 1: In the same way that you know, traders in a

327
00:16:16,640 --> 00:16:19,520
Speaker 1: in a ballmarket experienced the dopamine feedback loop of just

328
00:16:19,800 --> 00:16:21,800
Speaker 1: hitting the buy button and seeing the accounts go off.

329
00:16:21,840 --> 00:16:24,320
Speaker 1: It's similar for writing a piece of code and having

330
00:16:24,320 --> 00:16:27,040
Speaker 1: an execute and oftentimes having it come out better than

331
00:16:27,080 --> 00:16:29,440
Speaker 1: you envisioned in your mind. That's that's a very like,

332
00:16:29,560 --> 00:16:33,120
Speaker 1: you know, fulfilling thing. I've got a question, Um, so

333
00:16:33,440 --> 00:16:39,320
Speaker 1: you had no sort of journalistic or editorial experts experience

334
00:16:39,520 --> 00:16:45,000
Speaker 1: before setting up Yes, that's correct. I did have experience

335
00:16:45,080 --> 00:16:48,640
Speaker 1: working with other entities setting up blogs. So one of

336
00:16:48,680 --> 00:16:52,200
Speaker 1: my previous businesses was a blog development company back in

337
00:16:52,280 --> 00:16:55,520
Speaker 1: this would have been seven, So we worked with Yahoo

338
00:16:55,520 --> 00:16:58,000
Speaker 1: and Nike to set up some of their first corporate blogs.

339
00:16:58,320 --> 00:17:00,440
Speaker 1: But on the editorial and media side, I did have

340
00:17:00,560 --> 00:17:04,679
Speaker 1: no experience. Whatsoever. Did you have like a like a

341
00:17:04,680 --> 00:17:07,120
Speaker 1: a mission statement of something like that? With with how

342
00:17:07,160 --> 00:17:12,080
Speaker 1: you wanted crypto slate to sort of be perceived well,

343
00:17:12,280 --> 00:17:15,119
Speaker 1: and how did you go around sourcing that talent to

344
00:17:15,240 --> 00:17:18,159
Speaker 1: find the right right is if if you've never written

345
00:17:18,200 --> 00:17:23,360
Speaker 1: before And yeah, so initially the the mission statement basically

346
00:17:23,359 --> 00:17:25,879
Speaker 1: boiled down to we wanted to report the news in

347
00:17:26,040 --> 00:17:29,240
Speaker 1: as honest and transparent away as possible. So one thing

348
00:17:29,280 --> 00:17:32,680
Speaker 1: that Cryptomedia in the past I'm not going to name names,

349
00:17:32,680 --> 00:17:36,159
Speaker 1: but has gotten called out for his names is not

350
00:17:36,240 --> 00:17:39,199
Speaker 1: disclosing financial interests. So one thing that's really important for

351
00:17:39,280 --> 00:17:42,040
Speaker 1: us is that if a writer holds an asset like

352
00:17:42,040 --> 00:17:44,479
Speaker 1: bitcoin or ethereum that they're writing about, they just need

353
00:17:44,520 --> 00:17:46,560
Speaker 1: to add a little disclaimer at the bottom of the

354
00:17:46,560 --> 00:17:49,000
Speaker 1: news article that just makes it absolutely clear to the

355
00:17:49,040 --> 00:17:51,280
Speaker 1: reader that you know, there might be a little bit

356
00:17:51,280 --> 00:17:53,960
Speaker 1: of bias, and people should always be skeptical and do

357
00:17:54,040 --> 00:17:57,399
Speaker 1: their own diligence about what these different crypto assets are,

358
00:17:57,560 --> 00:17:59,600
Speaker 1: not ever rely on someone just to tell them what

359
00:17:59,640 --> 00:18:02,840
Speaker 1: they and buy. Yeah, because let's face it, there's there's

360
00:18:02,840 --> 00:18:06,040
Speaker 1: nothing wrong with with with being you know, with with

361
00:18:06,160 --> 00:18:09,000
Speaker 1: liking one project over another. But it is important that

362
00:18:09,080 --> 00:18:12,439
Speaker 1: whoever's reading it knows that you know because you know,

363
00:18:12,480 --> 00:18:16,320
Speaker 1: we it's some it's they have to know how objective

364
00:18:16,560 --> 00:18:19,280
Speaker 1: you know, the writer can be. Yeah, exactly, it's it's

365
00:18:19,280 --> 00:18:22,879
Speaker 1: really important, I think, not just for for the reader,

366
00:18:22,920 --> 00:18:26,399
Speaker 1: but for the entity that's kind of representing itself as

367
00:18:26,440 --> 00:18:31,000
Speaker 1: well too. Anytime something there's there's like a paid advertising

368
00:18:31,040 --> 00:18:32,960
Speaker 1: thing that needs to be clearly disclosed you that's the

369
00:18:33,000 --> 00:18:35,280
Speaker 1: law in the UK and the US, and you know

370
00:18:35,400 --> 00:18:39,320
Speaker 1: that's unfortunately, you know, there's still companies that reach out

371
00:18:39,359 --> 00:18:42,399
Speaker 1: and they ask, can you guys write something that we

372
00:18:42,480 --> 00:18:44,280
Speaker 1: pay you for but you don't have an ad on it?

373
00:18:44,320 --> 00:18:46,760
Speaker 1: And I'm like, that's literally illegal, and I point them,

374
00:18:46,840 --> 00:18:49,520
Speaker 1: I link them to the laws on the FTC or

375
00:18:49,920 --> 00:18:55,840
Speaker 1: or we'll take care of you. I mean, yeah, we get,

376
00:18:55,880 --> 00:18:58,880
Speaker 1: we get. We get so many inquiries like that all

377
00:18:58,880 --> 00:19:02,000
Speaker 1: the time. And it's like you've what you've presumably watched

378
00:19:02,000 --> 00:19:04,119
Speaker 1: a video at least one video on the channel. You know.

379
00:19:04,200 --> 00:19:06,639
Speaker 1: You you see, we don't run out, we see you see,

380
00:19:06,680 --> 00:19:10,960
Speaker 1: we don't do sponsored content. Why are you asking me this? Unfortunately? Yeah,

381
00:19:11,040 --> 00:19:13,760
Speaker 1: there's just there's a lot of it around. So so

382
00:19:13,800 --> 00:19:16,639
Speaker 1: how a bit so you great? You know, obviously small beginnings,

383
00:19:16,640 --> 00:19:18,800
Speaker 1: How big is the team now? Team is around and

384
00:19:18,840 --> 00:19:21,879
Speaker 1: fifteen people right now, mostly kind of in Europe. We're

385
00:19:21,920 --> 00:19:23,359
Speaker 1: we have a few in the US. We're trying to

386
00:19:23,440 --> 00:19:25,760
Speaker 1: hire more in the US um and then we have

387
00:19:25,800 --> 00:19:29,160
Speaker 1: a few people in Asia. Two. So we meet multiple

388
00:19:29,160 --> 00:19:32,040
Speaker 1: times a week on Slack, we're and also on Google

389
00:19:32,119 --> 00:19:34,639
Speaker 1: Video Chat, where we have you know, fifteen different little tiles,

390
00:19:34,680 --> 00:19:36,719
Speaker 1: and you know, we're able to everyone is able to

391
00:19:36,760 --> 00:19:39,520
Speaker 1: express kind of how they're doing, what they're working on.

392
00:19:39,600 --> 00:19:42,200
Speaker 1: So we try to maintain as as as close of

393
00:19:42,280 --> 00:19:45,080
Speaker 1: a team environment as possible despite the fact that we're

394
00:19:45,080 --> 00:19:48,320
Speaker 1: fully remote. Yeah, and I was I was going to

395
00:19:48,359 --> 00:19:50,199
Speaker 1: ask you about that actually because I remember, you know,

396
00:19:50,240 --> 00:19:52,080
Speaker 1: I've seen on your I've seen on your site for

397
00:19:52,080 --> 00:19:53,760
Speaker 1: a while. Now, you know, you've got a button saying

398
00:19:53,920 --> 00:19:56,080
Speaker 1: we're hiring, and I think this is something we'll we'll

399
00:19:56,480 --> 00:19:58,440
Speaker 1: circle around two in a bit. But I mean, obviously,

400
00:19:58,760 --> 00:20:00,719
Speaker 1: one of the big bits of new in crypto at

401
00:20:00,720 --> 00:20:04,600
Speaker 1: the moment, it's just how many companies are laying people off.

402
00:20:04,640 --> 00:20:07,159
Speaker 1: And it's I mean, it's horrible to see and you know,

403
00:20:07,200 --> 00:20:10,160
Speaker 1: not meant naming names coin based, but you know it's

404
00:20:10,240 --> 00:20:12,920
Speaker 1: some but you guys are you guys are still expanding.

405
00:20:12,960 --> 00:20:15,239
Speaker 1: You guys are hiring. Yeah, so we we managed our

406
00:20:15,280 --> 00:20:17,400
Speaker 1: treasury really well over the past year and a half,

407
00:20:17,720 --> 00:20:21,000
Speaker 1: thankfully didn't hold any US T or have any exposure

408
00:20:21,040 --> 00:20:23,360
Speaker 1: to any DeFi you know products. We were just trying

409
00:20:23,440 --> 00:20:26,720
Speaker 1: to be as conservative as possible, knowing that uh, you know,

410
00:20:26,800 --> 00:20:29,960
Speaker 1: the previous spare market, like they're like, it's the possibility

411
00:20:30,000 --> 00:20:33,360
Speaker 1: for revenue to dry up is very significant. Um, we weren't.

412
00:20:33,359 --> 00:20:35,359
Speaker 1: We're not at that place yet, but we kind of

413
00:20:35,400 --> 00:20:37,320
Speaker 1: had that in our mind that that's something that we

414
00:20:37,359 --> 00:20:39,320
Speaker 1: want to be able to operate as long as possible.

415
00:20:39,359 --> 00:20:42,080
Speaker 1: Like I, I thoroughly enjoy doing what I do today

416
00:20:42,119 --> 00:20:45,280
Speaker 1: today and the opportunities that crypto Slate has has given

417
00:20:45,320 --> 00:20:48,040
Speaker 1: to me, like moving to London from Seattle, for instance.

418
00:20:48,080 --> 00:20:50,679
Speaker 1: I came here to operate cryptos late because London is

419
00:20:50,680 --> 00:20:53,439
Speaker 1: a much better city to operate in in fintech and

420
00:20:53,480 --> 00:20:56,240
Speaker 1: crypto than um probably any other city in the US

421
00:20:56,280 --> 00:20:59,239
Speaker 1: except for maybe in New York City. So um, so

422
00:20:59,520 --> 00:21:02,520
Speaker 1: that's something that had Cryptosolate never you know started, or

423
00:21:02,520 --> 00:21:04,480
Speaker 1: crowd cryptos never started, I would never be here. So

424
00:21:04,520 --> 00:21:08,160
Speaker 1: I feel very thankful for, like I said, the opportunities

425
00:21:08,200 --> 00:21:11,080
Speaker 1: and we we want to operate cryptosolate as long as possible.

426
00:21:11,080 --> 00:21:13,800
Speaker 1: It's it's genuine, genuinely a fun place to be to

427
00:21:13,880 --> 00:21:16,119
Speaker 1: kind of have our finger on the pulse of what's happening.

428
00:21:16,320 --> 00:21:19,000
Speaker 1: I'm sure similar for you as well, being able to

429
00:21:19,080 --> 00:21:21,320
Speaker 1: you know, analyze and look at the industry from so

430
00:21:21,359 --> 00:21:25,600
Speaker 1: many different perspectives and talk to so many different founders. Yeah, yeah, absolutely,

431
00:21:25,640 --> 00:21:28,480
Speaker 1: and yeah to sort of keep that and again it

432
00:21:28,960 --> 00:21:31,280
Speaker 1: works really well for us having people kind of all

433
00:21:31,280 --> 00:21:33,320
Speaker 1: over the world as well, because you know, you get

434
00:21:33,359 --> 00:21:36,840
Speaker 1: those different perspectives and you get you know, you get

435
00:21:36,880 --> 00:21:40,119
Speaker 1: so many, so many different opinions on it. It's much Again,

436
00:21:40,440 --> 00:21:44,240
Speaker 1: it helps, it helps with that objectivity, I think. And

437
00:21:44,560 --> 00:21:46,800
Speaker 1: just before so, I want to talk to you, you know,

438
00:21:47,040 --> 00:21:48,919
Speaker 1: I want to have a chat really about sort of

439
00:21:49,000 --> 00:21:51,639
Speaker 1: everything that's well, we can't recover everything that's going on

440
00:21:51,640 --> 00:21:52,960
Speaker 1: at the moment, but you know, some of the things

441
00:21:53,040 --> 00:21:55,280
Speaker 1: that have some of the big stories in crypto over

442
00:21:55,359 --> 00:21:58,080
Speaker 1: the past couple of weeks. But before we you know,

443
00:21:58,119 --> 00:22:00,280
Speaker 1: before we do that, I just wanted to to finish

444
00:22:00,320 --> 00:22:02,479
Speaker 1: up talking about crypto Slate in general. I mean, so

445
00:22:02,560 --> 00:22:05,040
Speaker 1: you obviously, as you pointed out earlier, you guys, are

446
00:22:05,640 --> 00:22:08,000
Speaker 1: you're fully independent? You know, you don't have any kind

447
00:22:08,000 --> 00:22:10,120
Speaker 1: of venture capital backing or anything like that. As you said,

448
00:22:10,119 --> 00:22:12,400
Speaker 1: you raised a bit from friends and families, so you're

449
00:22:12,560 --> 00:22:15,800
Speaker 1: you're an independent crypto news organization and no, but I

450
00:22:15,800 --> 00:22:18,440
Speaker 1: mean do you still I mean how do you deal

451
00:22:18,560 --> 00:22:21,879
Speaker 1: do you get pressure from from projects and companies to

452
00:22:22,240 --> 00:22:25,080
Speaker 1: you know, to publish or or even retract particular stories.

453
00:22:25,119 --> 00:22:28,040
Speaker 1: I mean, how do you how do you deal with that? Yeah? Absolutely, Um,

454
00:22:28,080 --> 00:22:30,360
Speaker 1: it's something that we really need to kind of taken

455
00:22:30,520 --> 00:22:33,200
Speaker 1: into consideration on a case by case basis about what

456
00:22:33,400 --> 00:22:35,679
Speaker 1: someone is asking of us and is it reasonable. Like

457
00:22:35,760 --> 00:22:38,160
Speaker 1: if we if we have an incorrect fact in an article,

458
00:22:38,200 --> 00:22:40,360
Speaker 1: we obviously want to correct that as soon as possible.

459
00:22:40,640 --> 00:22:43,080
Speaker 1: Sometimes a company doesn't like what we've written about them,

460
00:22:43,080 --> 00:22:45,040
Speaker 1: but as long as it's as long as there's a

461
00:22:45,080 --> 00:22:47,359
Speaker 1: source for what we're saying. What we're saying, we're not

462
00:22:47,400 --> 00:22:49,760
Speaker 1: trying to tell people how to think, tell people what

463
00:22:49,840 --> 00:22:53,480
Speaker 1: investments decisions to make. We're just trying to tell original, interesting,

464
00:22:53,640 --> 00:22:57,560
Speaker 1: compelling stories that are fully fact checked or fully we

465
00:22:57,640 --> 00:23:00,360
Speaker 1: have the sources, even if the sources are are off

466
00:23:00,400 --> 00:23:03,000
Speaker 1: the record, As long as we can verify that this

467
00:23:03,040 --> 00:23:05,520
Speaker 1: is a legitimate person that they, you know, give us

468
00:23:05,560 --> 00:23:08,640
Speaker 1: the information and they provide personal information about them. That's

469
00:23:08,720 --> 00:23:11,560
Speaker 1: when we'll obviously consider posting something, is when we have

470
00:23:11,760 --> 00:23:14,199
Speaker 1: a good idea about who this person is and how

471
00:23:14,240 --> 00:23:17,120
Speaker 1: reputable they could be. Yeah, And of course the other

472
00:23:17,520 --> 00:23:20,600
Speaker 1: the other side of that too is the sort of

473
00:23:20,720 --> 00:23:22,960
Speaker 1: infamous or famous however you see it, the kind of

474
00:23:22,960 --> 00:23:25,960
Speaker 1: crypto communities out there, Because again, Mike, this is something

475
00:23:26,000 --> 00:23:28,439
Speaker 1: we've discussed a few times and stuff, Like, one of

476
00:23:28,440 --> 00:23:32,200
Speaker 1: the great things about crypto is it's kind of community feel,

477
00:23:32,359 --> 00:23:34,679
Speaker 1: is how it gets sort of passionate, brings passionate and

478
00:23:34,720 --> 00:23:36,879
Speaker 1: like minded people together to talk about some of these

479
00:23:36,920 --> 00:23:39,520
Speaker 1: amazing projects. But I kind of feel as a flip

480
00:23:39,560 --> 00:23:41,320
Speaker 1: side to that as well, and you can, you know,

481
00:23:41,359 --> 00:23:43,800
Speaker 1: crypto communities they can be great and they can also

482
00:23:43,840 --> 00:23:47,760
Speaker 1: be kind of pretty toxic. And yeah, I guess yeah.

483
00:23:47,920 --> 00:23:50,639
Speaker 1: So I mean, do you guys, do you guys have

484
00:23:51,080 --> 00:23:53,320
Speaker 1: sort of ever get kind of pushed back from crypto

485
00:23:53,359 --> 00:23:56,040
Speaker 1: communities as well? Or yeah, It's happened to handful of

486
00:23:56,080 --> 00:23:58,280
Speaker 1: times over the years. Like a few years ago, we

487
00:23:58,320 --> 00:24:00,520
Speaker 1: wrote a story about dig about I forge at exactly

488
00:24:00,600 --> 00:24:03,160
Speaker 1: what the context of it was. But the digitbate founder

489
00:24:03,160 --> 00:24:06,600
Speaker 1: than posted the you know, the article to his following

490
00:24:06,600 --> 00:24:09,959
Speaker 1: and said he didn't like the article for for specific reasons,

491
00:24:09,960 --> 00:24:12,960
Speaker 1: and the community started coming after us, um, coming after

492
00:24:13,000 --> 00:24:15,680
Speaker 1: our Twitter account, you know, the different journalists and saying

493
00:24:16,040 --> 00:24:18,320
Speaker 1: saying kind of mean, you know, stupid stuff, and that

494
00:24:18,440 --> 00:24:20,680
Speaker 1: just is what it is. Like you said, it's very

495
00:24:20,800 --> 00:24:23,879
Speaker 1: these were very tribal communities that they have. They're personally

496
00:24:23,920 --> 00:24:28,720
Speaker 1: invested in in the outcome of these different crypto assets,

497
00:24:28,720 --> 00:24:31,680
Speaker 1: so they tend to be irrational oftentimes, and they don't

498
00:24:31,720 --> 00:24:34,120
Speaker 1: like what they're hearing. It's it's such a weird thing,

499
00:24:34,200 --> 00:24:36,920
Speaker 1: isn't it. I mean again, it's it's it's it kind

500
00:24:36,920 --> 00:24:38,520
Speaker 1: of depends, I think on what side of the bed

501
00:24:38,560 --> 00:24:40,080
Speaker 1: you get out of. You know, you sometimes think this

502
00:24:40,160 --> 00:24:42,280
Speaker 1: is this is great that people are so engaged with it.

503
00:24:42,359 --> 00:24:45,680
Speaker 1: This is great that people feel passionately about these projects

504
00:24:45,680 --> 00:24:47,520
Speaker 1: and want this piece of tech to succeed, and what

505
00:24:47,720 --> 00:24:51,440
Speaker 1: you know, recognize that, you know, we're trying as an industry,

506
00:24:51,440 --> 00:24:53,920
Speaker 1: it's trying to change the world. And then on other

507
00:24:53,960 --> 00:24:56,880
Speaker 1: days you just think, oh, my word, just just simmer down.

508
00:24:58,640 --> 00:25:03,040
Speaker 1: It's just crypto. You know it can be quite insane

509
00:25:03,040 --> 00:25:07,520
Speaker 1: at times. Yeah, yeah, Okay, let's take a quick break

510
00:25:07,520 --> 00:25:09,919
Speaker 1: and then afterwards, Yeah, let's let's dig into some of

511
00:25:09,920 --> 00:25:11,880
Speaker 1: the things that's been been going down in the past

512
00:25:11,880 --> 00:25:29,480
Speaker 1: few days. Sounds great. Welcome back everyone to Part two.

513
00:25:30,240 --> 00:25:33,119
Speaker 1: We are here with Nate white Hill, the founder, R

514
00:25:33,240 --> 00:25:36,720
Speaker 1: and CEO of crypto Slate UM. So, yeah, so we've

515
00:25:36,760 --> 00:25:39,440
Speaker 1: been we've been talking about how crypto Slate came into being,

516
00:25:39,480 --> 00:25:41,360
Speaker 1: and it's kind of, you know, its place in the

517
00:25:41,440 --> 00:25:43,600
Speaker 1: in the crypto ecosystem now. So I thought we'd move

518
00:25:43,640 --> 00:25:47,119
Speaker 1: on and and talk about just some of the some

519
00:25:47,240 --> 00:25:50,159
Speaker 1: of the crazy stuff that's been going down over I

520
00:25:50,200 --> 00:25:53,080
Speaker 1: guess the last I mean, it feels like a long time.

521
00:25:53,359 --> 00:25:55,760
Speaker 1: I'm kind of I'm kind of backdating everything at the

522
00:25:55,800 --> 00:26:01,760
Speaker 1: moment to the terror collapse, which now feels weirdly like

523
00:26:01,920 --> 00:26:05,000
Speaker 1: almost ancient history. But it was only about six weeks

524
00:26:05,000 --> 00:26:07,679
Speaker 1: ago or something like that, and obviously it's kind of

525
00:26:07,720 --> 00:26:11,560
Speaker 1: still rippling out throughout the whole throughout the whole sort

526
00:26:11,560 --> 00:26:14,600
Speaker 1: of crypto ecosystem. But I mean, looking at these last

527
00:26:14,840 --> 00:26:17,359
Speaker 1: sort of six weeks a couple of months, is there

528
00:26:17,400 --> 00:26:20,400
Speaker 1: anything that kind of stands out to unite as particularly

529
00:26:20,880 --> 00:26:23,240
Speaker 1: as particularly surprising. I mean, we've had these kind of

530
00:26:23,280 --> 00:26:25,800
Speaker 1: really unpleasant shocks, but I mean, is there anything that's

531
00:26:25,840 --> 00:26:28,760
Speaker 1: kind of really grabbed you in that respect. Yeah, I'm

532
00:26:28,800 --> 00:26:32,280
Speaker 1: definitely surprised by the three arrows down for because a

533
00:26:32,280 --> 00:26:34,280
Speaker 1: lot of people in the industry had a really high

534
00:26:34,280 --> 00:26:37,320
Speaker 1: amount of respect for Susu and thought that he wasn't

535
00:26:37,320 --> 00:26:40,560
Speaker 1: operating as irresponsibly as as they were operating. It's come

536
00:26:40,560 --> 00:26:44,680
Speaker 1: out also the talk that he bought a fifty million

537
00:26:44,720 --> 00:26:49,000
Speaker 1: dollar yacht as well to to impress everyone. Um, there

538
00:26:49,080 --> 00:26:52,440
Speaker 1: is just so much irresponsibility, so much over leverage. I

539
00:26:52,680 --> 00:26:55,879
Speaker 1: think the kind of myth of seed DeFi centralized DeFi

540
00:26:56,160 --> 00:26:58,159
Speaker 1: is it's like kind of a myth. Actually it's not.

541
00:26:58,640 --> 00:27:01,240
Speaker 1: It's not something you know, as we can see with Celsius,

542
00:27:01,720 --> 00:27:05,399
Speaker 1: with with black Fire, unfortunately, Voyage or there's been so

543
00:27:05,440 --> 00:27:08,800
Speaker 1: many examples of big institutions that have really you know,

544
00:27:09,040 --> 00:27:12,920
Speaker 1: used their customer funds irresponsibly. So that's that's very disappointing. Yeah,

545
00:27:13,400 --> 00:27:15,600
Speaker 1: because so much of what we were talking about, you know,

546
00:27:15,840 --> 00:27:19,439
Speaker 1: when we when we knew that this this bear market

547
00:27:19,480 --> 00:27:22,280
Speaker 1: was on the horizon, so much what we were talking about, well,

548
00:27:22,320 --> 00:27:24,680
Speaker 1: this time, it's going to be different because we've got

549
00:27:24,720 --> 00:27:27,600
Speaker 1: so much institutional capital here. You know, the big boys

550
00:27:27,640 --> 00:27:29,440
Speaker 1: are playing. You know, it's it's so it's going to

551
00:27:29,520 --> 00:27:32,040
Speaker 1: be it's going to be different, and that the kind

552
00:27:32,040 --> 00:27:35,360
Speaker 1: of really disappointing thing is that, yeah, it is different,

553
00:27:35,720 --> 00:27:38,560
Speaker 1: but actually these these big guys have have made it

554
00:27:38,640 --> 00:27:42,640
Speaker 1: so much worse because the numbers involved are just so high.

555
00:27:42,760 --> 00:27:45,520
Speaker 1: And yeah, to to see what's been this kind of

556
00:27:45,600 --> 00:27:48,560
Speaker 1: drip feed of of revelations over the past a couple

557
00:27:48,560 --> 00:27:52,000
Speaker 1: of weeks, as you say, concerning three Hours Capital and

558
00:27:52,240 --> 00:27:55,399
Speaker 1: Celsius as well, just this kind of this mismanagement of

559
00:27:55,520 --> 00:27:59,399
Speaker 1: user funds is truly shocking. Yeah, it's something that I

560
00:28:00,040 --> 00:28:05,000
Speaker 1: wish kind of in hindsight that the these institutions had

561
00:28:05,040 --> 00:28:08,480
Speaker 1: been more transparent about how they're actually using customer funds,

562
00:28:08,520 --> 00:28:13,040
Speaker 1: because that's unfortunately, when there is this element of centralization,

563
00:28:13,080 --> 00:28:16,680
Speaker 1: they can be quite opaque in terms of how how

564
00:28:16,720 --> 00:28:19,800
Speaker 1: their businesses actually works. But if you're if you're self

565
00:28:19,840 --> 00:28:21,960
Speaker 1: custody and your money and you you hold it, you know,

566
00:28:22,000 --> 00:28:24,959
Speaker 1: in meta mask, or you're interacting with the DeFi applications yourself,

567
00:28:25,400 --> 00:28:28,920
Speaker 1: you have a lot more kind of transparency about what's

568
00:28:28,960 --> 00:28:31,119
Speaker 1: really happening. You can look on chain for instance, but

569
00:28:31,760 --> 00:28:34,600
Speaker 1: people want something easy and it's easy to send your

570
00:28:34,640 --> 00:28:38,479
Speaker 1: funds to a centralized uh, you know, custody as opposed

571
00:28:38,520 --> 00:28:40,840
Speaker 1: to hold the hold it yourself and actually then do

572
00:28:41,000 --> 00:28:44,680
Speaker 1: defy yourself. Yeah, it's it's it's one of the it's

573
00:28:44,760 --> 00:28:47,760
Speaker 1: kind of c fight. You know, these platforms like Celsius

574
00:28:47,760 --> 00:28:50,680
Speaker 1: and others have kind of exploited the fact that defy

575
00:28:50,840 --> 00:28:54,240
Speaker 1: for most people is quite daunting. You know, it's it's

576
00:28:54,280 --> 00:28:57,960
Speaker 1: not necessarily easy to use, and whereas these guys have

577
00:28:58,040 --> 00:29:00,480
Speaker 1: been building these platforms, Yeah, it couldn't be. It couldn't

578
00:29:00,520 --> 00:29:02,440
Speaker 1: be simply you know, give us, give us your coins.

579
00:29:02,440 --> 00:29:04,680
Speaker 1: And of course you know that there's the question of

580
00:29:04,760 --> 00:29:07,720
Speaker 1: yield as well, you know, offering these in some cases

581
00:29:07,800 --> 00:29:10,880
Speaker 1: insane yield. But I mean, I think what was what

582
00:29:10,960 --> 00:29:14,040
Speaker 1: was telling with Celsius in particular, was I mean, these

583
00:29:14,080 --> 00:29:17,080
Speaker 1: weren't kind of Ponzi scheme yields. This wasn't like, you know,

584
00:29:17,480 --> 00:29:20,120
Speaker 1: fifty a month or anything like that. They were just

585
00:29:20,680 --> 00:29:24,440
Speaker 1: very very competitive yields. But they didn't I think perhaps

586
00:29:24,920 --> 00:29:29,240
Speaker 1: maybe bullmarkt euphoria kind of blinded too many of us

587
00:29:29,280 --> 00:29:31,760
Speaker 1: to to the fact that yeah, okay, these are competitive yield,

588
00:29:31,760 --> 00:29:34,680
Speaker 1: there's still quite high. You know, eight percent may not

589
00:29:34,760 --> 00:29:36,520
Speaker 1: sound like much, but it's a heck of a lot

590
00:29:36,520 --> 00:29:38,240
Speaker 1: when you compare it to what's you know, to what

591
00:29:38,280 --> 00:29:41,200
Speaker 1: you can get in mainstream finance. Yeah. I think there

592
00:29:41,280 --> 00:29:43,800
Speaker 1: was just so much wishful thinking that happened when everyone

593
00:29:43,840 --> 00:29:46,480
Speaker 1: started seeing how many billions of dollars Celsius was raising,

594
00:29:46,520 --> 00:29:48,440
Speaker 1: or black Fire was raising, or some of these these

595
00:29:48,480 --> 00:29:51,680
Speaker 1: big entities that collected a lot of customer funds. People

596
00:29:52,080 --> 00:29:54,360
Speaker 1: people did think, oh, if inflations this bad, and I

597
00:29:54,360 --> 00:29:56,640
Speaker 1: should be taking a little bit higher risk by putting

598
00:29:56,880 --> 00:29:59,800
Speaker 1: putting my capital in something that is, you know, yielding

599
00:29:59,840 --> 00:30:03,040
Speaker 1: a percent instead, and that that's not a sustainable rate really,

600
00:30:03,040 --> 00:30:05,880
Speaker 1: that's that that's a rate that they used to incentivize

601
00:30:05,920 --> 00:30:08,800
Speaker 1: more people to deposit more funds. So there is an

602
00:30:08,800 --> 00:30:11,520
Speaker 1: element of kind of ponds and omics built into the

603
00:30:11,600 --> 00:30:14,720
Speaker 1: c defy aspect as well. And and and Tara Luna too.

604
00:30:14,760 --> 00:30:18,160
Speaker 1: That was that was incredibly disappointing because a lot of people,

605
00:30:18,320 --> 00:30:24,000
Speaker 1: a lot of big entities like Novigrats and Errington, they

606
00:30:24,080 --> 00:30:27,800
Speaker 1: put VC money into Terra. They they really had a

607
00:30:27,840 --> 00:30:30,040
Speaker 1: big bet on on do Quon and on the Tara

608
00:30:30,160 --> 00:30:33,720
Speaker 1: lunar ecosystem succeeding, so to see it have the downfall

609
00:30:33,760 --> 00:30:37,480
Speaker 1: that it did is also just incredibly disappointing. Yeah, yeah,

610
00:30:37,560 --> 00:30:41,600
Speaker 1: it's and I mean it doesn't it even the fact

611
00:30:41,640 --> 00:30:43,480
Speaker 1: that that you know, big guys have lost money, it

612
00:30:43,520 --> 00:30:46,480
Speaker 1: doesn't make it any easier. It doesn't. Because so much money,

613
00:30:46,640 --> 00:30:49,320
Speaker 1: so much capital has now been been sucked out of

614
00:30:49,400 --> 00:30:51,760
Speaker 1: the whole of the whole crypto market, added the whole

615
00:30:51,760 --> 00:30:54,280
Speaker 1: crypto ecosystem, it's going to be it's gonna be very,

616
00:30:54,360 --> 00:30:56,959
Speaker 1: very difficult to know, to get back to where we

617
00:30:56,960 --> 00:31:01,760
Speaker 1: were before. Yeah, there was one interesting example I heard

618
00:31:01,760 --> 00:31:05,080
Speaker 1: about of PA and Terra who they bought in too. Terra,

619
00:31:05,760 --> 00:31:07,240
Speaker 1: I think they put in a one point seven a

620
00:31:07,240 --> 00:31:09,360
Speaker 1: million dollar investment. Then it went a hundred acts and

621
00:31:09,400 --> 00:31:11,920
Speaker 1: they pulled out right in time, So they turned one

622
00:31:11,920 --> 00:31:14,360
Speaker 1: point seven into a hundred and seventy million pulled out.

623
00:31:14,400 --> 00:31:21,120
Speaker 1: The timing was great for them, but for anyone games, yeah, exactly. Yeah, extraordinary, extraordinary.

624
00:31:21,160 --> 00:31:24,560
Speaker 1: And so I mean, do you think on the topic

625
00:31:24,560 --> 00:31:26,640
Speaker 1: of on the topic of sea fight, on the topic

626
00:31:26,680 --> 00:31:29,440
Speaker 1: of because obviously it's and I mean it's very difficult.

627
00:31:29,480 --> 00:31:31,520
Speaker 1: And you'll know this from you know, you'll you'll know

628
00:31:31,600 --> 00:31:35,120
Speaker 1: this from running crypto Slate and having to verify information.

629
00:31:35,200 --> 00:31:38,160
Speaker 1: It's so we're seeing so many rumors flying around. You know,

630
00:31:38,240 --> 00:31:40,760
Speaker 1: we don't yet know the full story of what happened

631
00:31:40,800 --> 00:31:43,680
Speaker 1: with with three A C. I mean, the Celsius story

632
00:31:43,720 --> 00:31:46,400
Speaker 1: is still very much ongoing. I mean the last night,

633
00:31:46,800 --> 00:31:48,800
Speaker 1: any hot tips you can share with the listeners here

634
00:31:48,800 --> 00:31:53,360
Speaker 1: today off record, of course, it's um, but I mean, yeah,

635
00:31:53,680 --> 00:31:56,040
Speaker 1: especially with Celsius, you know, we're still kind of hearing that,

636
00:31:56,120 --> 00:31:58,640
Speaker 1: you know, withdrawals are still suspended, and now there's talk

637
00:31:58,640 --> 00:32:01,800
Speaker 1: of either bankrupts see or I think Goldman Sacks are

638
00:32:01,800 --> 00:32:05,240
Speaker 1: now involved or rumored to be involved. And then of

639
00:32:05,280 --> 00:32:07,600
Speaker 1: course you go onto somewhere like crypto Twitter and you

640
00:32:07,720 --> 00:32:10,520
Speaker 1: just see, I mean, there are these amazing accounts, aren't

641
00:32:10,560 --> 00:32:13,120
Speaker 1: there that these amazing kind of anonymous accounts that are

642
00:32:13,160 --> 00:32:16,640
Speaker 1: that are you know, um giving us all this information.

643
00:32:16,680 --> 00:32:20,200
Speaker 1: But it's it's knowing and obviously seeing other companies. You know,

644
00:32:20,240 --> 00:32:23,120
Speaker 1: the company's next so is a good example. I mean

645
00:32:23,120 --> 00:32:25,080
Speaker 1: there's a lot of there's a lot of fud flying

646
00:32:25,080 --> 00:32:28,400
Speaker 1: around about Next at the moment, obviously because it too

647
00:32:28,520 --> 00:32:31,760
Speaker 1: is a sea file leander like Celsius. And you know,

648
00:32:31,840 --> 00:32:34,280
Speaker 1: you have you have these accounts saying one thing and

649
00:32:34,680 --> 00:32:38,160
Speaker 1: Nexo and other companies coming back with another. It's so

650
00:32:38,240 --> 00:32:40,920
Speaker 1: difficult to filter out what you know, to try and

651
00:32:40,960 --> 00:32:42,600
Speaker 1: get to the bottom what could be the truth and

652
00:32:42,640 --> 00:32:45,120
Speaker 1: all of that. Yeah, that's what we're really trying to do.

653
00:32:45,160 --> 00:32:48,640
Speaker 1: We're we're trying to take these anonymous accounts and try

654
00:32:48,680 --> 00:32:52,480
Speaker 1: to verify who these people are ourselves, meaning engage in

655
00:32:52,520 --> 00:32:55,840
Speaker 1: a direct message conversation, figure out if they're real people,

656
00:32:55,880 --> 00:32:58,520
Speaker 1: if they're legitimate people, what their interests are, and if

657
00:32:58,520 --> 00:33:01,200
Speaker 1: they are legit. Like with the uble of fat Man Terra,

658
00:33:01,280 --> 00:33:03,760
Speaker 1: who brought a lot of the allegations against Terror and

659
00:33:03,800 --> 00:33:06,600
Speaker 1: Luna over the past few months. Um, that's someone that

660
00:33:06,640 --> 00:33:09,240
Speaker 1: we had a direct message conversation with and after we did,

661
00:33:09,720 --> 00:33:13,360
Speaker 1: we felt comfortable publishing some of the tweets that he

662
00:33:13,480 --> 00:33:17,120
Speaker 1: was sharing about the different things happening. And because of that,

663
00:33:17,200 --> 00:33:20,040
Speaker 1: because we kind of reached out and had this unique conversation,

664
00:33:20,480 --> 00:33:23,480
Speaker 1: we were publishing information about Tara and Luna like five

665
00:33:23,520 --> 00:33:26,320
Speaker 1: to seven days before coin Desk works a coin telegraph,

666
00:33:26,480 --> 00:33:28,640
Speaker 1: So that's something that we we try to do we

667
00:33:28,680 --> 00:33:30,960
Speaker 1: try to look at who are these anonymous accounts? Can

668
00:33:31,000 --> 00:33:33,280
Speaker 1: we figure out if they're real people? If they are legitimate,

669
00:33:33,360 --> 00:33:37,760
Speaker 1: real people, then we will consider posting that on cryptosolate. Yeah,

670
00:33:37,960 --> 00:33:41,720
Speaker 1: it's so much information and just trying to trying to

671
00:33:41,760 --> 00:33:44,280
Speaker 1: get to the bottom of what what information you can

672
00:33:44,440 --> 00:33:46,240
Speaker 1: use and what it's what is genuine. But I mean

673
00:33:46,240 --> 00:33:48,480
Speaker 1: some of the stuff coming out coming out of Terror

674
00:33:48,600 --> 00:33:53,080
Speaker 1: through through fat Man Terror is just extraordinaries and extrudinary. Again,

675
00:33:53,280 --> 00:33:56,680
Speaker 1: this is this story has so much further to run.

676
00:33:56,960 --> 00:33:58,600
Speaker 1: And obviously I think a lot of the talk now

677
00:33:58,760 --> 00:34:01,479
Speaker 1: is you know what where is Do Kuan? What's going

678
00:34:01,480 --> 00:34:03,640
Speaker 1: to happen to him? And we're still i mean, we

679
00:34:03,720 --> 00:34:09,440
Speaker 1: still have this relaunched Terror, which it's just insane. Yeah,

680
00:34:09,480 --> 00:34:13,520
Speaker 1: it's crazy that they basically created another four billion dollar

681
00:34:13,560 --> 00:34:16,239
Speaker 1: network in like a few weeks, and and some of

682
00:34:16,280 --> 00:34:19,360
Speaker 1: the direct message chats that were coming out between the

683
00:34:19,400 --> 00:34:22,360
Speaker 1: validators and Do Kwan, they were really rushing this. And

684
00:34:22,360 --> 00:34:25,520
Speaker 1: we had an article about how it's it's irresponsible to

685
00:34:25,560 --> 00:34:28,759
Speaker 1: be rushing this relaunch of a multibillion dollar network when

686
00:34:29,120 --> 00:34:32,720
Speaker 1: forty billion dollars just basically vanished from the previous network. Yeah,

687
00:34:33,400 --> 00:34:35,800
Speaker 1: you have priorities. You have to sort out what happened

688
00:34:35,800 --> 00:34:38,360
Speaker 1: with the previous billion dollar network before you go and

689
00:34:38,440 --> 00:34:41,239
Speaker 1: launch another one. It's yeah, it's a real sort of

690
00:34:41,239 --> 00:34:44,520
Speaker 1: only in crypto moment, isn't it um? And I mean

691
00:34:44,560 --> 00:34:47,759
Speaker 1: obviously that one of the one of the fallats from this,

692
00:34:47,880 --> 00:34:50,279
Speaker 1: or one of one of the results from everything that

693
00:34:50,280 --> 00:34:52,920
Speaker 1: we've seen over the past everything that's still going on,

694
00:34:53,320 --> 00:34:56,040
Speaker 1: is that we are going to get regulation, and you

695
00:34:56,040 --> 00:34:57,960
Speaker 1: know we're seeing it now. There are there are bills

696
00:34:58,040 --> 00:35:00,800
Speaker 1: kind of starting to sort of their way through the

697
00:35:00,920 --> 00:35:04,880
Speaker 1: rather convoluted process of you know, capital going through Capitol

698
00:35:04,960 --> 00:35:06,400
Speaker 1: Hill and all that sort of stuff. So you know,

699
00:35:06,480 --> 00:35:10,319
Speaker 1: we know that regulation is coming. Do you think, I mean,

700
00:35:11,280 --> 00:35:13,640
Speaker 1: do you think we as a crypto as an industry,

701
00:35:13,680 --> 00:35:16,880
Speaker 1: we as a crypto community. Do you think the stuff

702
00:35:16,920 --> 00:35:19,000
Speaker 1: that we can do in advance of that? Is there

703
00:35:19,040 --> 00:35:21,560
Speaker 1: a way that we can kind of start to to

704
00:35:21,719 --> 00:35:26,239
Speaker 1: regulate ourselves before, you know, before the it's done for us.

705
00:35:26,760 --> 00:35:29,239
Speaker 1: I think by everyone paying the taxes that they are

706
00:35:29,280 --> 00:35:39,160
Speaker 1: on crypto capital game whoa whoa, hey, let's say that

707
00:35:39,200 --> 00:35:46,440
Speaker 1: word right, the work that taxation with that representation falling

708
00:35:46,480 --> 00:35:50,080
Speaker 1: off his chair. It's definitely it's something that obviously people

709
00:35:50,120 --> 00:35:52,239
Speaker 1: talk a lot about, but they don't like to talk

710
00:35:52,280 --> 00:35:55,080
Speaker 1: a lot about at the same time. It's it's something

711
00:35:55,120 --> 00:35:58,600
Speaker 1: that I feel like it's it's really important because that

712
00:35:58,719 --> 00:36:01,760
Speaker 1: is that is showing, at least on an individual basis,

713
00:36:01,840 --> 00:36:04,799
Speaker 1: that one can be participating in this new you know,

714
00:36:04,840 --> 00:36:07,440
Speaker 1: new economy that clearly people at the top are very

715
00:36:07,480 --> 00:36:10,040
Speaker 1: afraid about, but be doing it in a responsible way.

716
00:36:10,080 --> 00:36:12,840
Speaker 1: And so I think the more money that any government

717
00:36:12,920 --> 00:36:16,440
Speaker 1: collects from people paying their crypto taxes, the more likely

718
00:36:16,520 --> 00:36:18,600
Speaker 1: they're to be fair on it. Hopefully they want to

719
00:36:18,640 --> 00:36:20,080
Speaker 1: see it succeed as long as and they want to

720
00:36:20,080 --> 00:36:21,920
Speaker 1: see it flourished because they can see it as a

721
00:36:22,040 --> 00:36:24,919
Speaker 1: source of revenue. Yep, exactly so. And that also goes

722
00:36:25,000 --> 00:36:28,319
Speaker 1: for for losses. So anytime someone buys an asset and

723
00:36:28,360 --> 00:36:30,160
Speaker 1: it goes down, that that can be a loss that's

724
00:36:30,239 --> 00:36:33,280
Speaker 1: written off. So it you know, in the bear market,

725
00:36:33,320 --> 00:36:35,960
Speaker 1: there's lots of opportunities if one purchased in the ball

726
00:36:36,000 --> 00:36:38,800
Speaker 1: market to pay less taxes for for that year of

727
00:36:38,840 --> 00:36:42,120
Speaker 1: the bear market. Yeah. Yeah, and it ties in, doesn't it.

728
00:36:42,160 --> 00:36:44,080
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, people, this is stuff that people

729
00:36:44,760 --> 00:36:47,040
Speaker 1: need to know how to do. I think a lot

730
00:36:47,080 --> 00:36:49,880
Speaker 1: of people who you know, maybe crypto was their first

731
00:36:49,920 --> 00:36:54,239
Speaker 1: experience of of investing or of trading of any sort

732
00:36:54,280 --> 00:36:56,799
Speaker 1: of asset. And you know, one of the big things

733
00:36:56,840 --> 00:37:00,000
Speaker 1: about crypto has always been, you know, it's an open

734
00:37:00,000 --> 00:37:03,920
Speaker 1: tunity for people to learn about how money works. Okay,

735
00:37:03,960 --> 00:37:07,280
Speaker 1: this is this is a this is a futuristic twenty

736
00:37:07,320 --> 00:37:10,239
Speaker 1: one century money. But you know, it's it's important that

737
00:37:10,280 --> 00:37:13,320
Speaker 1: people realize how there's you know, how the system works,

738
00:37:13,320 --> 00:37:15,879
Speaker 1: how how you go about paying taxes. You know, it's

739
00:37:15,920 --> 00:37:18,480
Speaker 1: not just it's not just a case of everyone having

740
00:37:18,680 --> 00:37:22,600
Speaker 1: deducted from their pay slip and money that they never see. Yeah,

741
00:37:22,920 --> 00:37:25,640
Speaker 1: it's it's something that I feel like, especially for people

742
00:37:25,719 --> 00:37:28,480
Speaker 1: that are younger, they're more likely to want to invest

743
00:37:28,480 --> 00:37:31,200
Speaker 1: in crypto assets or hold n f T s. Certainly,

744
00:37:31,239 --> 00:37:33,880
Speaker 1: the the younger generation is kind of ushering in this

745
00:37:34,080 --> 00:37:37,520
Speaker 1: interest and digital assets. They understand it a lot, you know,

746
00:37:37,560 --> 00:37:40,879
Speaker 1: more quickly than people of the older generation. So so

747
00:37:40,960 --> 00:37:44,440
Speaker 1: for them to use it and to you be responsible

748
00:37:44,480 --> 00:37:47,160
Speaker 1: about it. To learn how money works, to learn how

749
00:37:47,200 --> 00:37:50,919
Speaker 1: the FED works, to learn how self custody works, that's

750
00:37:50,920 --> 00:37:53,040
Speaker 1: something that I think is one of the most important

751
00:37:53,080 --> 00:37:55,560
Speaker 1: things that anyone listening to this they should look into

752
00:37:55,600 --> 00:37:58,440
Speaker 1: how to self custody their own funds. Yeah. I think

753
00:37:58,480 --> 00:38:00,560
Speaker 1: if anything is going to come out of the out

754
00:38:00,560 --> 00:38:03,759
Speaker 1: of the last few weeks, that the case for self

755
00:38:03,800 --> 00:38:09,120
Speaker 1: custody has been made so unequivocally that I think when

756
00:38:09,120 --> 00:38:11,239
Speaker 1: we look back on this period of time, I think

757
00:38:11,280 --> 00:38:13,360
Speaker 1: that will be the moment that the penny dropped, the

758
00:38:13,360 --> 00:38:17,240
Speaker 1: satoshi dropped. For a lot of people, it's like, yeah, okay,

759
00:38:17,320 --> 00:38:20,280
Speaker 1: that's what they meant by not your keys, not your coins.

760
00:38:20,440 --> 00:38:23,040
Speaker 1: That what That's what they meant by don't leave your

761
00:38:23,080 --> 00:38:26,279
Speaker 1: coins on in exchange, because yeah, this idea. You know,

762
00:38:26,400 --> 00:38:28,880
Speaker 1: so many people are just happy to to trust these

763
00:38:28,920 --> 00:38:32,480
Speaker 1: platforms and yeah we we we kind of assumed that

764
00:38:32,520 --> 00:38:35,840
Speaker 1: they were legit because they had so much money. Coins

765
00:38:35,840 --> 00:38:39,960
Speaker 1: are now fifty million dollar yachts exactly. And even bringing

766
00:38:39,960 --> 00:38:42,799
Speaker 1: it back to regulation, what you're saying to one thing

767
00:38:42,880 --> 00:38:45,719
Speaker 1: I like is that the UK has started to look

768
00:38:45,760 --> 00:38:48,640
Speaker 1: like it's going to be more pro cryptoe We there

769
00:38:48,640 --> 00:38:52,160
Speaker 1: are some talk recently how the UK is not going

770
00:38:52,200 --> 00:38:55,560
Speaker 1: to require the same rule as the EU about basically

771
00:38:55,640 --> 00:38:59,799
Speaker 1: k y seeing all unhosted wallets. Yeah, so there's there's

772
00:38:59,800 --> 00:39:02,720
Speaker 1: some really good things that are happening right now, um

773
00:39:02,760 --> 00:39:05,360
Speaker 1: in the UK specifically that we don't see the happening

774
00:39:05,360 --> 00:39:08,120
Speaker 1: in the UK and the EU. I'm sorry. So that

775
00:39:08,200 --> 00:39:11,040
Speaker 1: that's another kind of reason why I know people hate Brexit,

776
00:39:11,120 --> 00:39:13,560
Speaker 1: but this actually could be one of the benefits of

777
00:39:13,560 --> 00:39:17,640
Speaker 1: Brexit potentially, Yeah, because yeah, I mean, the EU is

778
00:39:17,680 --> 00:39:20,640
Speaker 1: such a vast machine, isn't it. And and and some

779
00:39:20,680 --> 00:39:23,479
Speaker 1: of these crypto regulations that are kind of grinding through

780
00:39:24,000 --> 00:39:26,359
Speaker 1: the European Parliament at the moment. Yeah, I mean they're

781
00:39:26,440 --> 00:39:29,560
Speaker 1: they're they're very concerning for the future of the industry.

782
00:39:29,560 --> 00:39:32,120
Speaker 1: And it's it's interesting, isn't it to see countries like

783
00:39:32,160 --> 00:39:36,040
Speaker 1: the UK, and obviously also places like Portugal and Dubai

784
00:39:36,120 --> 00:39:39,120
Speaker 1: and you know, El Salvador. You know, lots of places

785
00:39:39,160 --> 00:39:42,040
Speaker 1: across the world sort of embrace crypto in in kind

786
00:39:42,040 --> 00:39:44,880
Speaker 1: of different ways and are trying to trying to figure

787
00:39:44,880 --> 00:39:48,319
Speaker 1: out how best to you know, to take advantage. Yeah,

788
00:39:48,320 --> 00:39:50,239
Speaker 1: and then people are deciding they're going to go where

789
00:39:50,239 --> 00:39:53,800
Speaker 1: they're treated best as well. So that that's another great

790
00:39:53,880 --> 00:39:57,640
Speaker 1: thing about crypto is that, unlike the previous tech boom

791
00:39:57,680 --> 00:40:00,600
Speaker 1: of the two thousand's This is so much more global.

792
00:40:00,680 --> 00:40:03,000
Speaker 1: You know, that last one was really concentrated in Silicon

793
00:40:03,080 --> 00:40:06,080
Speaker 1: Valley in San Francisco, But this there's innovation happening all

794
00:40:06,120 --> 00:40:08,760
Speaker 1: around the world now, and there's governments that are taking

795
00:40:08,800 --> 00:40:11,920
Speaker 1: it seriously and considering rules and regulation that are more

796
00:40:11,960 --> 00:40:15,640
Speaker 1: favorable towards towards people that are crypto investors. So, you know,

797
00:40:15,719 --> 00:40:18,600
Speaker 1: the opportunity to go live in a new land, I

798
00:40:18,640 --> 00:40:20,759
Speaker 1: think is it's better than it's ever if you're in

799
00:40:20,800 --> 00:40:24,440
Speaker 1: crypto right now. Yeah, And that's I mean, that's decentralization

800
00:40:24,640 --> 00:40:26,960
Speaker 1: in action, isn't it, Because I mean I feel we

801
00:40:27,120 --> 00:40:29,960
Speaker 1: talk about what's happening in the US kind of from

802
00:40:29,960 --> 00:40:33,040
Speaker 1: a regulatory standpoint so much, and obviously we're all obsessed

803
00:40:33,800 --> 00:40:36,439
Speaker 1: month to month with what the FED is doing, and

804
00:40:36,600 --> 00:40:39,520
Speaker 1: obviously like it or not that the US is very

805
00:40:39,600 --> 00:40:41,720
Speaker 1: much kind of the epicenter of crypto at the moment,

806
00:40:41,760 --> 00:40:45,000
Speaker 1: and we want to see the industry thrive there. But

807
00:40:45,040 --> 00:40:47,360
Speaker 1: actually we don't want to see the US be the

808
00:40:47,440 --> 00:40:48,920
Speaker 1: be all and end all, you know, we want it

809
00:40:48,960 --> 00:40:51,480
Speaker 1: spread out across the globe. We want it to be

810
00:40:51,680 --> 00:40:54,719
Speaker 1: you know, something that any country can I guess kind

811
00:40:54,719 --> 00:40:58,279
Speaker 1: of embrace on its own terms. Absolutely. One thing that's

812
00:40:58,280 --> 00:41:01,920
Speaker 1: been a bit concerning um and especially in crypto, but

813
00:41:02,040 --> 00:41:03,920
Speaker 1: I know this has always been the case is how

814
00:41:04,000 --> 00:41:06,560
Speaker 1: much the US kind of tries to act like world police.

815
00:41:07,160 --> 00:41:10,400
Speaker 1: So like Gary Gensler said yesterday that he thinks bitcoin

816
00:41:10,520 --> 00:41:13,799
Speaker 1: is a commodity, but no other cryptocurrency. And you know,

817
00:41:14,000 --> 00:41:17,640
Speaker 1: previously there had been talk other people had said that

818
00:41:17,680 --> 00:41:20,080
Speaker 1: they think ethereum is too decentralized at this point to

819
00:41:20,440 --> 00:41:23,080
Speaker 1: be a security as well. So, but the fact that

820
00:41:23,320 --> 00:41:26,640
Speaker 1: the US does dictate kind of how the rest of

821
00:41:26,800 --> 00:41:28,480
Speaker 1: you know, the world will will look at these different

822
00:41:28,480 --> 00:41:31,879
Speaker 1: assets and what categorizations will give to them. Um that

823
00:41:31,880 --> 00:41:34,319
Speaker 1: that's a bad thing. Still, we need we need other

824
00:41:34,400 --> 00:41:37,719
Speaker 1: bodies around the world, like Switzerland, for example, has they

825
00:41:37,719 --> 00:41:40,719
Speaker 1: have multiple different classifications that are not just it's a

826
00:41:40,760 --> 00:41:44,200
Speaker 1: security or it's not a security. Yeah, and you want,

827
00:41:44,239 --> 00:41:46,719
Speaker 1: I mean, it's it's It must be difficult for these,

828
00:41:46,880 --> 00:41:49,759
Speaker 1: especially kind of smaller countries to to sort of take

829
00:41:49,800 --> 00:41:52,960
Speaker 1: the lead because the system that we have is so

830
00:41:53,440 --> 00:41:55,440
Speaker 1: is so geared towards the U. The US is such

831
00:41:55,480 --> 00:41:58,360
Speaker 1: a powerful player and so much at the heart of

832
00:41:58,400 --> 00:42:00,680
Speaker 1: the modern system. And and no, I mean, as we're

833
00:42:00,719 --> 00:42:02,880
Speaker 1: kind of seeing with with Russia at the moment. You

834
00:42:02,880 --> 00:42:05,600
Speaker 1: know that the consequence if you fall outside of that

835
00:42:05,640 --> 00:42:07,960
Speaker 1: system or a pushed outside of that system, it can

836
00:42:08,000 --> 00:42:10,880
Speaker 1: be can be diet. So I guess, you know, we

837
00:42:10,920 --> 00:42:13,839
Speaker 1: really we really want to see countries, I guess, gain

838
00:42:14,040 --> 00:42:16,160
Speaker 1: the confidence to kind of go their own way. And

839
00:42:16,160 --> 00:42:19,320
Speaker 1: I think again that's something that's really exciting about seeing

840
00:42:19,440 --> 00:42:23,720
Speaker 1: El Salvador adopting adopting bitcoin, and and also the Central

841
00:42:23,760 --> 00:42:25,759
Speaker 1: African Republic as well. You know, you kind of hope

842
00:42:25,760 --> 00:42:29,720
Speaker 1: that these countries will find you know, common cause through

843
00:42:29,800 --> 00:42:33,359
Speaker 1: through bitcoin, through crypto, whatever whatever form it takes. Yeah,

844
00:42:33,480 --> 00:42:35,040
Speaker 1: I hope they do it for the long term too,

845
00:42:35,080 --> 00:42:38,560
Speaker 1: because there's been a few examples now of other countries

846
00:42:38,640 --> 00:42:41,200
Speaker 1: or jurisdictions try to adopt it but have really kind

847
00:42:41,239 --> 00:42:43,440
Speaker 1: of fallen off. The two that come to mind that

848
00:42:43,440 --> 00:42:47,640
Speaker 1: I've visited in ten were Malta and Gibraltar. Oh yeah,

849
00:42:47,960 --> 00:42:50,120
Speaker 1: so at one point, you know, finance was set up

850
00:42:50,120 --> 00:42:52,120
Speaker 1: a shop in Malta. Everyone was gonna set up a

851
00:42:52,120 --> 00:42:55,000
Speaker 1: shop in Malta and then it just kind of fell off. Um,

852
00:42:55,320 --> 00:42:57,040
Speaker 1: And to be honest, I don't even really know the

853
00:42:57,040 --> 00:42:59,680
Speaker 1: reasons why. So if you either of you guys. Well,

854
00:42:59,680 --> 00:43:02,080
Speaker 1: I know Malta. This is I have no idea why,

855
00:43:02,200 --> 00:43:04,040
Speaker 1: first of all, so I don't listen to anything I say,

856
00:43:04,080 --> 00:43:07,400
Speaker 1: but I know Malta. That is the is, the is

857
00:43:07,440 --> 00:43:13,240
Speaker 1: where every big betting company is resided sam in Gibraltar.

858
00:43:13,920 --> 00:43:16,480
Speaker 1: So like I know, it's just through from friends who

859
00:43:16,480 --> 00:43:20,600
Speaker 1: were involved in in in YouTube channels and they were

860
00:43:21,040 --> 00:43:24,480
Speaker 1: advertising with you know that ball or whatever. And they're

861
00:43:24,520 --> 00:43:28,239
Speaker 1: all in one building apart from maybe one which is

862
00:43:28,280 --> 00:43:30,319
Speaker 1: somewhere else. But like everything, so if you fall out

863
00:43:30,360 --> 00:43:32,920
Speaker 1: with one, you fall out with all of them because

864
00:43:32,920 --> 00:43:37,680
Speaker 1: they are all in the same in the same lunching cafeteria, pub,

865
00:43:37,880 --> 00:43:41,000
Speaker 1: lunch or whatever. So yeah, I don't know if it's

866
00:43:41,080 --> 00:43:43,359
Speaker 1: it's some tax reasons or or something like that, which

867
00:43:43,400 --> 00:43:46,799
Speaker 1: is why I'm assuming there there. Yeah, I mean Gibraltar

868
00:43:46,840 --> 00:43:50,920
Speaker 1: I think is quite sort of subject to pressure from Britain.

869
00:43:51,200 --> 00:43:54,200
Speaker 1: But yeah, I mean I'm not I'm not so sure

870
00:43:54,239 --> 00:43:56,480
Speaker 1: about Malta. I mean, I guess you know, you just

871
00:43:56,560 --> 00:43:58,480
Speaker 1: never know what's going on behind the scenes, do you.

872
00:43:58,520 --> 00:44:02,319
Speaker 1: I mean, in it could be an entity like the US,

873
00:44:02,600 --> 00:44:05,359
Speaker 1: you know, much more or the EU is sort of

874
00:44:05,600 --> 00:44:08,040
Speaker 1: it pushes against it and goes or the i m F.

875
00:44:08,120 --> 00:44:09,840
Speaker 1: You know, the i m F we've seen, you know,

876
00:44:09,920 --> 00:44:13,920
Speaker 1: it's very happy to loan countries like Argentina a whole

877
00:44:13,960 --> 00:44:17,120
Speaker 1: boatload of money. But then these these loans come with

878
00:44:17,360 --> 00:44:21,239
Speaker 1: really sort of you know, really tight restrictions. And it

879
00:44:21,320 --> 00:44:23,520
Speaker 1: even looks like the EU could be putting pressure on

880
00:44:23,560 --> 00:44:26,560
Speaker 1: Portugal too, because recently it came out that they're going

881
00:44:26,600 --> 00:44:30,240
Speaker 1: to Previously they were not taxing crypt and crypt capital games,

882
00:44:30,280 --> 00:44:33,319
Speaker 1: but now they will be, even though recently in the

883
00:44:33,400 --> 00:44:36,879
Speaker 1: legislature they voted against actually starting to tax it again.

884
00:44:36,880 --> 00:44:39,319
Speaker 1: So it's still kind of to be determined when it

885
00:44:39,440 --> 00:44:42,719
Speaker 1: is going to be taxed, but it's something that unfortunately

886
00:44:42,800 --> 00:44:46,439
Speaker 1: the EU is probably putting pressure on Portugal for. Yeah. Yeah,

887
00:44:46,480 --> 00:44:49,520
Speaker 1: And I think the silver lining to that is, I

888
00:44:49,520 --> 00:44:52,040
Speaker 1: think the last I read of it, it's it's, yeah,

889
00:44:52,080 --> 00:44:54,040
Speaker 1: it's likely to get sort of tied up, you know,

890
00:44:54,120 --> 00:44:56,799
Speaker 1: that that can sort of gets kicked down the road,

891
00:44:57,080 --> 00:44:59,279
Speaker 1: you know, for a long long time. But yeah, I

892
00:44:59,280 --> 00:45:02,200
Speaker 1: mean there's so much there's so much external pressure from

893
00:45:02,239 --> 00:45:05,160
Speaker 1: you know, just a handful of very very powerful entities,

894
00:45:05,160 --> 00:45:08,720
Speaker 1: and yeah, that's you know, we want we want decentralization,

895
00:45:08,760 --> 00:45:12,320
Speaker 1: we want crypto to to spread across the globe. Exactly

896
00:45:12,600 --> 00:45:15,400
Speaker 1: do you have like a timeline in your mind for

897
00:45:15,520 --> 00:45:18,320
Speaker 1: when you think more countries could start to adopt it.

898
00:45:18,360 --> 00:45:20,520
Speaker 1: Are we looking like five years down the road or

899
00:45:20,560 --> 00:45:22,279
Speaker 1: ten years down the road, or are are we kind

900
00:45:22,280 --> 00:45:25,239
Speaker 1: of at the mercy of countries like Al Salvador seeing

901
00:45:25,239 --> 00:45:29,120
Speaker 1: how their experiments go? And then I think, so yeah,

902
00:45:29,239 --> 00:45:31,359
Speaker 1: I mean, I think so many eyes are on El

903
00:45:31,400 --> 00:45:33,560
Speaker 1: Salvador to see how it worked, to see if it

904
00:45:33,600 --> 00:45:36,160
Speaker 1: can you know, if this experiment with with kind of

905
00:45:36,160 --> 00:45:40,160
Speaker 1: weaning itself off the dollar actually works. And so so

906
00:45:40,239 --> 00:45:44,000
Speaker 1: much of what I've read and heard kind of since

907
00:45:44,040 --> 00:45:47,000
Speaker 1: that announcement is that I think across sort of Central

908
00:45:47,080 --> 00:45:50,280
Speaker 1: and and Latin America, you know, across Latin America in general,

909
00:45:50,640 --> 00:45:53,000
Speaker 1: they're they're kind of primed for it, and you know,

910
00:45:53,600 --> 00:45:57,080
Speaker 1: there's so much crypto adoption happening in those countries that

911
00:45:57,239 --> 00:46:00,480
Speaker 1: it kind of it to me, it almost feels inevitable.

912
00:46:00,960 --> 00:46:04,840
Speaker 1: And I wonder whether this recession that we're almost certainly

913
00:46:04,880 --> 00:46:08,440
Speaker 1: going to have, you know, or perhaps already in you know,

914
00:46:08,520 --> 00:46:13,000
Speaker 1: I wonder if if that could precipitate it more, because

915
00:46:13,320 --> 00:46:15,319
Speaker 1: you know, the the US is going to you know,

916
00:46:15,400 --> 00:46:18,640
Speaker 1: could well could well retreat slightly from that, you know,

917
00:46:18,719 --> 00:46:23,040
Speaker 1: from that stage. Um, so I think I kind of feel, yeah,

918
00:46:23,080 --> 00:46:26,120
Speaker 1: I think it will sort of play out very gradually,

919
00:46:26,160 --> 00:46:28,240
Speaker 1: but I think it will be kind of fits and starts.

920
00:46:28,280 --> 00:46:31,120
Speaker 1: So I think, yeah, I think as we really start

921
00:46:31,160 --> 00:46:35,520
Speaker 1: to see inflation bite, I mean, it's you know, it's

922
00:46:35,600 --> 00:46:38,000
Speaker 1: it's it's so apparent now, but you know, we're we're

923
00:46:38,040 --> 00:46:41,560
Speaker 1: only really starting to feel effect the actual effects of inflation.

924
00:46:41,600 --> 00:46:44,600
Speaker 1: And I think as prices rise and people across the world,

925
00:46:44,600 --> 00:46:46,200
Speaker 1: you know, it costs more and more to fill your

926
00:46:46,200 --> 00:46:48,359
Speaker 1: car up or to get your shopping or anything like that,

927
00:46:48,440 --> 00:46:51,560
Speaker 1: I think that that kind of swell, that ground swell

928
00:46:51,600 --> 00:46:53,919
Speaker 1: of discontent is only going to grow. And I think

929
00:46:54,000 --> 00:46:56,960
Speaker 1: that's that's the moment that you know, people with you know,

930
00:46:57,000 --> 00:47:00,360
Speaker 1: politicians with ideas can step in and go there is

931
00:47:00,400 --> 00:47:04,120
Speaker 1: another way. Yeah, we really need more politicians that understand

932
00:47:04,200 --> 00:47:07,560
Speaker 1: crypto and thankfully there are a handful in the United

933
00:47:07,560 --> 00:47:10,239
Speaker 1: States now that are running first Senate, so we we

934
00:47:10,360 --> 00:47:13,719
Speaker 1: do have more educated people that are running that want

935
00:47:13,760 --> 00:47:17,400
Speaker 1: to push crypto values. So, um, hopefully you know in

936
00:47:17,400 --> 00:47:19,640
Speaker 1: the United States that that happens and the rest of

937
00:47:19,640 --> 00:47:21,960
Speaker 1: the world follow us, and that does seem in the

938
00:47:22,040 --> 00:47:24,600
Speaker 1: US to be a fair amount of kind of cross

939
00:47:24,640 --> 00:47:26,680
Speaker 1: party support for it. I mean, this latest bill that's

940
00:47:26,680 --> 00:47:30,320
Speaker 1: been put forward by Senator Lamis is is a Republican

941
00:47:30,480 --> 00:47:34,440
Speaker 1: for Wyoming, Isn't that right? And then Senator Gillibrand is

942
00:47:34,440 --> 00:47:37,440
Speaker 1: a Democrat. Um, I forget for where, but yeah, you know,

943
00:47:37,480 --> 00:47:39,920
Speaker 1: this is a cross party thing, And I mean, America

944
00:47:40,040 --> 00:47:45,040
Speaker 1: is seems so polarized on most issues, but it seems

945
00:47:45,080 --> 00:47:49,040
Speaker 1: like there could be some actual bipartisan support for for

946
00:47:49,080 --> 00:47:51,520
Speaker 1: something like crypto. Yeah. Well, what's odd to me too

947
00:47:51,680 --> 00:47:55,680
Speaker 1: is that you have a senator like Elizabeth Warren, who

948
00:47:55,760 --> 00:47:58,600
Speaker 1: you know, previously been very much against the big banks,

949
00:47:58,600 --> 00:48:01,920
Speaker 1: but she's also very much against crypto. So I'm you know,

950
00:48:02,000 --> 00:48:03,719
Speaker 1: you would think that if she is against the big bank,

951
00:48:03,760 --> 00:48:07,040
Speaker 1: should understand the benefits of crypto and self custody and

952
00:48:07,040 --> 00:48:10,000
Speaker 1: and people being able to have access to to bitcoin

953
00:48:10,320 --> 00:48:13,600
Speaker 1: versus hold physical gold. So I do find it very

954
00:48:13,600 --> 00:48:17,920
Speaker 1: odd that some some particular politicians seem to be incredibly

955
00:48:17,960 --> 00:48:21,960
Speaker 1: against it, like almost religiously. So yeah, yeah, it's um,

956
00:48:22,640 --> 00:48:25,239
Speaker 1: it's gonna it's you kind of feel that with with

957
00:48:25,239 --> 00:48:27,719
Speaker 1: people like Elizabeth Warren that there is no you know

958
00:48:28,320 --> 00:48:31,440
Speaker 1: that there will be no kind of Damascene conversion. You know,

959
00:48:31,520 --> 00:48:33,759
Speaker 1: that's that's the way she'll always feel. But I mean,

960
00:48:33,880 --> 00:48:36,839
Speaker 1: this is how democracies work, isn't it. Politicians who have

961
00:48:37,160 --> 00:48:39,160
Speaker 1: views that are out of kilter with the rest of

962
00:48:39,160 --> 00:48:41,759
Speaker 1: the population, they get they get moved aside. And I

963
00:48:41,800 --> 00:48:43,680
Speaker 1: think that's something that we're going to you know, that

964
00:48:43,719 --> 00:48:47,160
Speaker 1: could be really interesting come the midterm elections in November.

965
00:48:47,640 --> 00:48:49,799
Speaker 1: You know, it seems like there is, as you say,

966
00:48:49,840 --> 00:48:53,239
Speaker 1: there is kind of there are pro crypto people going

967
00:48:53,320 --> 00:48:55,640
Speaker 1: up for for some of these positions, and and there's

968
00:48:55,640 --> 00:48:58,520
Speaker 1: obviously quite a powerful crypto lobby in the United States

969
00:48:58,560 --> 00:49:01,319
Speaker 1: as well. Yeah. Absolutely, Yeah, thankfully there are you know,

970
00:49:01,520 --> 00:49:06,080
Speaker 1: entities now like coin base, like obviously SBF and f

971
00:49:06,160 --> 00:49:09,640
Speaker 1: TX that are really taking that seriously. SPF donated i

972
00:49:09,680 --> 00:49:13,400
Speaker 1: believe four or five million dollars to Joe Biden's campaign, uh,

973
00:49:13,480 --> 00:49:16,319
Speaker 1: you know, a few years ago, so that was That's

974
00:49:16,360 --> 00:49:19,680
Speaker 1: something that as much as people might hate that, they

975
00:49:19,760 --> 00:49:22,760
Speaker 1: still this is how it worked. The game is played,

976
00:49:23,560 --> 00:49:26,040
Speaker 1: and this is a you know, this is someone in

977
00:49:26,080 --> 00:49:28,520
Speaker 1: a position of power, who is in who is in

978
00:49:28,600 --> 00:49:31,200
Speaker 1: our industry and that as that I think is a

979
00:49:31,200 --> 00:49:33,840
Speaker 1: good thing. And um yeah, I mean I think we

980
00:49:33,840 --> 00:49:36,760
Speaker 1: should I think we should talk about SPF Sam bankman

981
00:49:36,800 --> 00:49:39,279
Speaker 1: Fried in minutes or so, because he seems to be

982
00:49:39,560 --> 00:49:42,200
Speaker 1: just all over the krypto news at the moment. But

983
00:49:42,719 --> 00:49:44,640
Speaker 1: before we take another break, I just wanted to ask

984
00:49:44,680 --> 00:49:47,040
Speaker 1: you quickly. I wanted to get your thoughts Nate on

985
00:49:47,200 --> 00:49:50,840
Speaker 1: something that's been This is a story that seems to

986
00:49:50,920 --> 00:49:54,080
Speaker 1: just repeat itself every few weeks. Um. So recently we

987
00:49:54,120 --> 00:49:57,880
Speaker 1: saw a hack of Harmony, the Harmony bridge to Ethereum,

988
00:49:57,880 --> 00:49:59,600
Speaker 1: and I think it was about a hundred million dollars

989
00:49:59,640 --> 00:50:03,799
Speaker 1: of crypt to gone. And you know, this is kind

990
00:50:03,840 --> 00:50:05,680
Speaker 1: of playing out at the moment and we see, as

991
00:50:05,719 --> 00:50:07,239
Speaker 1: I say, we see this every few months, you know,

992
00:50:07,320 --> 00:50:09,400
Speaker 1: hundreds of millions of dollars that there was the Wormhole

993
00:50:09,440 --> 00:50:12,120
Speaker 1: bridge hack not so long ago, and there seems to

994
00:50:12,200 --> 00:50:15,520
Speaker 1: be this kind of this this playbook kind of kicks

995
00:50:15,560 --> 00:50:18,359
Speaker 1: into action. You have this huge hack, it's revealed that

996
00:50:19,040 --> 00:50:21,839
Speaker 1: you know, there's a seven figure number or or nine

997
00:50:21,880 --> 00:50:26,840
Speaker 1: figure numbers has disappeared, and obviously everyone can then you know,

998
00:50:26,960 --> 00:50:29,520
Speaker 1: it doesn't take long to locate where that crypto is

999
00:50:29,560 --> 00:50:31,480
Speaker 1: it's sitting, you know, it's sitting in a walllet. The

1000
00:50:31,520 --> 00:50:33,640
Speaker 1: hackers can't possibly do anything with it because there's just

1001
00:50:33,719 --> 00:50:36,880
Speaker 1: so much money. And then, as as the case with Harmony,

1002
00:50:36,920 --> 00:50:40,520
Speaker 1: the Harmony team have offered the hacker one million dollars

1003
00:50:40,560 --> 00:50:43,360
Speaker 1: as a sort of as a as a payoff. Basically,

1004
00:50:43,360 --> 00:50:46,279
Speaker 1: it's like, we'll give you a million dollars. And it

1005
00:50:46,320 --> 00:50:48,080
Speaker 1: was interesting the way they worded it. I think they

1006
00:50:48,080 --> 00:50:51,040
Speaker 1: said they didn't say there will be no charges, but

1007
00:50:51,120 --> 00:50:53,600
Speaker 1: they would. I think they said they wouldn't advocate for

1008
00:50:53,680 --> 00:50:56,360
Speaker 1: charges runting like that. So, I mean my question to

1009
00:50:56,400 --> 00:50:59,000
Speaker 1: you know is, how do you do do you think

1010
00:50:59,040 --> 00:51:02,319
Speaker 1: this is a healthy thing? Obviously these hacks are not

1011
00:51:02,480 --> 00:51:04,880
Speaker 1: something that we want to see, but how do you

1012
00:51:04,920 --> 00:51:07,480
Speaker 1: feel about this, this this sort of business of kind

1013
00:51:07,480 --> 00:51:10,400
Speaker 1: of trying to pay off these hackers. Yeah, I'm not

1014
00:51:10,440 --> 00:51:12,920
Speaker 1: sure what else they can do other than try to

1015
00:51:13,080 --> 00:51:16,879
Speaker 1: have the wallet addresses blocked by exchanges, which is hard

1016
00:51:16,920 --> 00:51:19,080
Speaker 1: to do once you start, you know, using mixing wallets

1017
00:51:19,120 --> 00:51:22,880
Speaker 1: to move the funds around. But I mean, ultimately, because

1018
00:51:22,920 --> 00:51:26,400
Speaker 1: the FIAT off ramp exists on the centralized exchanges, it

1019
00:51:26,520 --> 00:51:28,400
Speaker 1: is up to the centralized exchanges to make sure that

1020
00:51:28,440 --> 00:51:30,480
Speaker 1: the money coming into them is not from you know,

1021
00:51:30,560 --> 00:51:33,879
Speaker 1: criminal activity, but it does make sense. I think one

1022
00:51:33,880 --> 00:51:36,239
Speaker 1: million dollar on a hundred million dollar hack is way

1023
00:51:36,239 --> 00:51:38,680
Speaker 1: too low that I think, And already the funds have

1024
00:51:38,719 --> 00:51:42,399
Speaker 1: started moving today. Yeah, so yeah, they need to they

1025
00:51:42,400 --> 00:51:45,320
Speaker 1: need to increase that. You know, I don't know ten million,

1026
00:51:45,360 --> 00:51:47,719
Speaker 1: But who knows what the hacker. I mean, he could

1027
00:51:47,719 --> 00:51:50,080
Speaker 1: be some guy sitting in his parents basement, you know,

1028
00:51:50,120 --> 00:51:53,520
Speaker 1: in pajamas. It's sord to say, but it kind of

1029
00:51:53,520 --> 00:51:56,080
Speaker 1: seems inevitable. It's like they're they're going to try to

1030
00:51:56,160 --> 00:51:59,719
Speaker 1: get the funds back. Um, and I think white hat

1031
00:51:59,800 --> 00:52:01,360
Speaker 1: This is one reason why I'm a big fan of

1032
00:52:01,360 --> 00:52:05,239
Speaker 1: white hat hackers, because they are trying to identify uh,

1033
00:52:05,280 --> 00:52:08,000
Speaker 1: you know, exploits or vulnerabilities, but do it in an

1034
00:52:08,000 --> 00:52:11,640
Speaker 1: ethical way and then receive some some benefit from the

1035
00:52:11,960 --> 00:52:15,040
Speaker 1: company that they're they're hacking. Yeah, I think there's I mean,

1036
00:52:15,080 --> 00:52:17,399
Speaker 1: I'm fully in favor of of these sort of bug

1037
00:52:17,440 --> 00:52:19,520
Speaker 1: bounties and things like that. You know, that's that that

1038
00:52:19,640 --> 00:52:21,480
Speaker 1: that's a great way to get you know, to get

1039
00:52:21,520 --> 00:52:24,839
Speaker 1: your code kind of unofficially audited. I guess I just

1040
00:52:25,239 --> 00:52:27,520
Speaker 1: I can't shape that I can't shape the idea that

1041
00:52:27,560 --> 00:52:29,920
Speaker 1: you know a hacker because because I guess it's like,

1042
00:52:30,000 --> 00:52:32,359
Speaker 1: I think you want to not negotiate with terrorists. Well,

1043
00:52:32,360 --> 00:52:36,600
Speaker 1: I kind of feel in a way that that that

1044
00:52:36,600 --> 00:52:39,000
Speaker 1: that should be a consideration, because I think I've used

1045
00:52:39,040 --> 00:52:41,439
Speaker 1: this analogy with you Mike before. It's like when when

1046
00:52:41,480 --> 00:52:43,719
Speaker 1: one of these hacks happen, it's like someone it's like

1047
00:52:43,800 --> 00:52:47,319
Speaker 1: someone breaking into a bank and stealing kind of more

1048
00:52:47,480 --> 00:52:50,680
Speaker 1: cash than they can actually carry, and then the payoff

1049
00:52:50,760 --> 00:52:53,280
Speaker 1: is it's like, well, okay, if you give this cash

1050
00:52:53,360 --> 00:52:56,640
Speaker 1: back that you you can't really do anything with because

1051
00:52:56,640 --> 00:52:58,680
Speaker 1: there's so much of it, and you know, it's so

1052
00:52:58,760 --> 00:53:02,040
Speaker 1: difficult to to hide that amount of money on chain,

1053
00:53:02,600 --> 00:53:04,640
Speaker 1: But we'll give you, you you know, we'll give you a

1054
00:53:04,719 --> 00:53:07,600
Speaker 1: nice you know, a nice fat world of fat world

1055
00:53:07,600 --> 00:53:11,239
Speaker 1: of cash. Fear trouble. I don't know, I kind of

1056
00:53:11,280 --> 00:53:14,200
Speaker 1: feel it may it may kind of make the situation

1057
00:53:14,280 --> 00:53:18,960
Speaker 1: worse because the hackers have almost got nothing to lose. Yeah,

1058
00:53:19,120 --> 00:53:22,080
Speaker 1: I think, I mean, really the honorable thing for the

1059
00:53:22,080 --> 00:53:24,040
Speaker 1: hacker to do. I know it's hard to talk about

1060
00:53:24,080 --> 00:53:26,680
Speaker 1: honor when it comes to a hacker, but the hackers

1061
00:53:26,680 --> 00:53:29,440
Speaker 1: should be should be trying to do change themselves that

1062
00:53:29,680 --> 00:53:32,399
Speaker 1: they should be yeah, we're in the hacker dunce hat

1063
00:53:32,480 --> 00:53:36,160
Speaker 1: or something. What we really need is people to just

1064
00:53:36,280 --> 00:53:39,279
Speaker 1: have honor and recognize that if they're that intelligent to

1065
00:53:39,360 --> 00:53:42,880
Speaker 1: hack a protocol, that they should be doing it, you know,

1066
00:53:42,880 --> 00:53:44,440
Speaker 1: in a white hat way so they don't have to

1067
00:53:44,520 --> 00:53:46,920
Speaker 1: hide the funds they're they're doing it, and you know,

1068
00:53:47,040 --> 00:53:49,560
Speaker 1: if they if they go like different protocols are willing

1069
00:53:49,560 --> 00:53:51,400
Speaker 1: to pay a huge amounts of money. Some are like

1070
00:53:51,640 --> 00:53:54,200
Speaker 1: ten million dollars for a bug bounty. So for anyone

1071
00:53:54,239 --> 00:53:56,200
Speaker 1: that's smart enough to you know, to solve that or

1072
00:53:56,239 --> 00:53:57,880
Speaker 1: to do that, they should go do that because then

1073
00:53:57,920 --> 00:54:00,279
Speaker 1: they can legally keep those funds as opposed to have

1074
00:54:00,280 --> 00:54:01,640
Speaker 1: to worry for the rest of their life. How do

1075
00:54:01,719 --> 00:54:04,680
Speaker 1: they know unload a hundred million dollars? How do we

1076
00:54:04,800 --> 00:54:08,759
Speaker 1: digitally launded this crypto? Exactly? It is extraordinary, and I

1077
00:54:08,800 --> 00:54:11,160
Speaker 1: mean there are there, there are sort of ways to

1078
00:54:11,239 --> 00:54:14,640
Speaker 1: do it, but it just it feels like, yeah, it's

1079
00:54:15,239 --> 00:54:17,200
Speaker 1: it's such an odd thing to sort of see be

1080
00:54:17,280 --> 00:54:19,840
Speaker 1: able to look on chain and see this money sitting

1081
00:54:19,880 --> 00:54:22,480
Speaker 1: there and then you've kind of got this Mexican stand off.

1082
00:54:23,000 --> 00:54:25,360
Speaker 1: You kind of you need to think about their mindset

1083
00:54:25,400 --> 00:54:28,160
Speaker 1: and like there are obviously someone who's probably quite competitive

1084
00:54:28,200 --> 00:54:29,920
Speaker 1: and they've got like this, you know what I mean.

1085
00:54:29,960 --> 00:54:34,960
Speaker 1: They they're playing a game and sort of going okay, here, here,

1086
00:54:35,000 --> 00:54:36,799
Speaker 1: it's all back, give me a little bit or doing

1087
00:54:36,840 --> 00:54:39,840
Speaker 1: it legally is kind of haven't watched the Matrix or

1088
00:54:39,880 --> 00:54:43,360
Speaker 1: any happy I mean, maybe maybe it's not. It's a

1089
00:54:43,400 --> 00:54:46,040
Speaker 1: really hot woman with a slick black hair tapping away

1090
00:54:46,120 --> 00:54:48,800
Speaker 1: the computer and she doesn't take no for an answer.

1091
00:54:48,960 --> 00:54:51,040
Speaker 1: They're the trench code. Yeah exactly. She goes and does

1092
00:54:51,040 --> 00:54:53,600
Speaker 1: a bit of free running in a spare today martial

1093
00:54:53,680 --> 00:54:56,239
Speaker 1: arts expert as well. Yeah, well that's what we'd like

1094
00:54:56,320 --> 00:55:00,239
Speaker 1: to think. On that note, let's take let's take another ache,

1095
00:55:00,440 --> 00:55:03,040
Speaker 1: and then when we come back. Wow, there's still so

1096
00:55:03,160 --> 00:55:04,680
Speaker 1: much to talk about, Nate. I don't want to take

1097
00:55:04,719 --> 00:55:07,640
Speaker 1: up your your entire evening, but let's take Let's take

1098
00:55:07,640 --> 00:55:09,160
Speaker 1: another break, and we'll be back with you in a

1099
00:55:09,200 --> 00:55:26,439
Speaker 1: moment or so. Sounds great. Welcome back everyone to part three.

1100
00:55:27,000 --> 00:55:31,920
Speaker 1: We are here still with Nate. Anywhere. We haven't gone anywhere. No,

1101
00:55:32,480 --> 00:55:35,799
Speaker 1: um So, Nate, one another thing I wanted to ask

1102
00:55:35,840 --> 00:55:40,200
Speaker 1: you was you know we've seen, we're kind of deep

1103
00:55:40,239 --> 00:55:44,400
Speaker 1: into this bear market. Now, do you think there's there's anything,

1104
00:55:44,560 --> 00:55:46,680
Speaker 1: you know, crypto specific, Is there anything that we as

1105
00:55:46,680 --> 00:55:49,280
Speaker 1: a crypto industry can do to kind of pull ourselves

1106
00:55:49,320 --> 00:55:51,440
Speaker 1: out of this or are we very much at the

1107
00:55:51,480 --> 00:55:54,960
Speaker 1: mercy of kind of external factors. Yeah. I think for

1108
00:55:55,000 --> 00:55:57,720
Speaker 1: an individuals, as long as they believe in this acid

1109
00:55:57,719 --> 00:55:59,879
Speaker 1: class over five to ten years, I would say dollar

1110
00:56:00,000 --> 00:56:02,719
Speaker 1: cost average, set up an automatic withdrawal, you know, on

1111
00:56:02,760 --> 00:56:05,880
Speaker 1: a reputable exchange like coin base, and just have you know,

1112
00:56:06,120 --> 00:56:08,080
Speaker 1: ten dollars a week come out or something like that.

1113
00:56:08,280 --> 00:56:10,960
Speaker 1: Um dollar cost averaging is one of the best possible

1114
00:56:10,960 --> 00:56:15,040
Speaker 1: ways to get exposure to crypto asset for which I

1115
00:56:15,120 --> 00:56:17,600
Speaker 1: think there's really only maybe a few that are worth

1116
00:56:17,640 --> 00:56:20,800
Speaker 1: accumulating over a long period of time other than bitcoin

1117
00:56:20,800 --> 00:56:23,920
Speaker 1: and ethereum, everything else, like who knows. It's kind of

1118
00:56:23,920 --> 00:56:25,840
Speaker 1: how I look at it. You know, it's totally possible

1119
00:56:25,920 --> 00:56:29,239
Speaker 1: they'll see greater gains, but oftentimes it's not worth the

1120
00:56:29,320 --> 00:56:32,160
Speaker 1: risk over a multi year period to hold some anything

1121
00:56:32,160 --> 00:56:34,719
Speaker 1: else other than bitcoin and ethereum. So I think that's

1122
00:56:34,800 --> 00:56:36,200
Speaker 1: kind of the first thing I would say is no

1123
00:56:36,360 --> 00:56:41,799
Speaker 1: financial advice, Yes, exactly. Financial advice. But that and and yes,

1124
00:56:41,880 --> 00:56:44,319
Speaker 1: self custody, I feel like is the most important thing

1125
00:56:44,360 --> 00:56:48,759
Speaker 1: for anyone who's getting into crypto to really take too seriously. Yeah, yeah,

1126
00:56:48,800 --> 00:56:50,640
Speaker 1: it's very It seems to be very much like we

1127
00:56:50,840 --> 00:56:54,280
Speaker 1: the lesson that we we in the in the space

1128
00:56:54,320 --> 00:56:56,040
Speaker 1: have to learn. It's just it seems to be one

1129
00:56:56,040 --> 00:56:58,399
Speaker 1: of restraint at times like this. You know, we went

1130
00:56:58,520 --> 00:57:02,720
Speaker 1: crazy during the bullmarket and you know, money got thrown around.

1131
00:57:02,719 --> 00:57:06,320
Speaker 1: I remember speaking to people, some people after Bitcoin Miami

1132
00:57:06,480 --> 00:57:10,240
Speaker 1: this year, and like a couple of people mentioned afterwards,

1133
00:57:10,239 --> 00:57:12,359
Speaker 1: you know, when we were kind of deconstructing it. Um.

1134
00:57:13,320 --> 00:57:15,680
Speaker 1: They both sort of said, independently of each other, they

1135
00:57:15,680 --> 00:57:17,480
Speaker 1: were like, it was amazing, it was amazing to see

1136
00:57:17,520 --> 00:57:20,560
Speaker 1: all these things going on. But they just said, this,

1137
00:57:20,560 --> 00:57:25,360
Speaker 1: this craziness cannot last. And they both cited the kind

1138
00:57:25,360 --> 00:57:29,080
Speaker 1: of dot com bubble as as as an example. And

1139
00:57:29,120 --> 00:57:30,840
Speaker 1: I think, I mean, I don't think we're you know,

1140
00:57:30,920 --> 00:57:33,360
Speaker 1: I don't think we're facing that kind of implosion, but

1141
00:57:33,520 --> 00:57:36,360
Speaker 1: I think there is definitely going There is definitely a

1142
00:57:36,400 --> 00:57:39,600
Speaker 1: sense that you know, we we have had it so

1143
00:57:39,720 --> 00:57:42,520
Speaker 1: good for the past couple of years, and now it's

1144
00:57:42,560 --> 00:57:46,200
Speaker 1: about now kind of restraint is very much the the

1145
00:57:46,280 --> 00:57:48,960
Speaker 1: order of the day. Absolutely. I feel like another thing

1146
00:57:49,040 --> 00:57:52,560
Speaker 1: that's interesting about this previous ball market is that it

1147
00:57:52,640 --> 00:57:55,160
Speaker 1: didn't have the same sort of blow off the top

1148
00:57:55,200 --> 00:57:58,240
Speaker 1: that the previous ball markets did. We actually first peaked

1149
00:57:58,320 --> 00:58:02,080
Speaker 1: in May of one and then again in November, so

1150
00:58:02,160 --> 00:58:05,480
Speaker 1: the chart patterns look a lot different than you know,

1151
00:58:05,520 --> 00:58:08,480
Speaker 1: people were saying that until we have a blow, a

1152
00:58:08,560 --> 00:58:11,360
Speaker 1: true blow off the top of that, the market hasn't

1153
00:58:11,360 --> 00:58:14,480
Speaker 1: reached uh, you know, the top for this period. But

1154
00:58:14,840 --> 00:58:16,640
Speaker 1: now I think we can say this kind of double

1155
00:58:16,680 --> 00:58:19,040
Speaker 1: top that we had that certainly was the top of

1156
00:58:19,080 --> 00:58:21,640
Speaker 1: that market, and it's a different pattern. And another thing

1157
00:58:21,680 --> 00:58:25,360
Speaker 1: that's happened to again is that Bitcoin and ethereumgon below

1158
00:58:25,880 --> 00:58:28,280
Speaker 1: the previous all time higher for the previous market. That's

1159
00:58:28,280 --> 00:58:30,360
Speaker 1: another thing that people said it's not going to happen,

1160
00:58:30,360 --> 00:58:33,240
Speaker 1: but it does happen. So I think there really are like, no,

1161
00:58:33,560 --> 00:58:36,440
Speaker 1: there are no certainties in crypto, like anything is possible. Yeah,

1162
00:58:36,680 --> 00:58:39,800
Speaker 1: we're very much in uncharted territory at me. And of course,

1163
00:58:40,560 --> 00:58:42,520
Speaker 1: you know, as we've as as we've said before, Mike,

1164
00:58:42,520 --> 00:58:45,320
Speaker 1: it's like we're we're in such a we're in such

1165
00:58:45,360 --> 00:58:49,320
Speaker 1: an unprecedented situation now for crypto. You know, the first

1166
00:58:49,400 --> 00:58:51,520
Speaker 1: kind of recession that krypto is going to have existed

1167
00:58:51,560 --> 00:58:55,480
Speaker 1: in the first high rates environment that that that crypto

1168
00:58:55,520 --> 00:58:59,560
Speaker 1: is going to have seen, and obviously all these extraordinary

1169
00:58:59,600 --> 00:59:01,800
Speaker 1: extern all factors. I mean, you know, just since the

1170
00:59:01,840 --> 00:59:04,400
Speaker 1: start of the year, obviously with the invasion of Ukraine

1171
00:59:04,440 --> 00:59:06,440
Speaker 1: and things like that. You know, the world just seems

1172
00:59:06,480 --> 00:59:10,440
Speaker 1: to have gotten so much crazier just over the I

1173
00:59:10,440 --> 00:59:13,080
Speaker 1: mean it was crazy enough to begin with, but we

1174
00:59:13,120 --> 00:59:16,280
Speaker 1: seem to be facing this this really really sort of

1175
00:59:16,520 --> 00:59:19,960
Speaker 1: strange and kind of troubling macro outlook. And I don't

1176
00:59:19,960 --> 00:59:22,200
Speaker 1: know about you, but I mean I for me, I

1177
00:59:22,320 --> 00:59:24,120
Speaker 1: kind of get a bit of solace from that when

1178
00:59:24,560 --> 00:59:26,800
Speaker 1: when when you look at it from a from a

1179
00:59:26,800 --> 00:59:31,160
Speaker 1: crypto perspective, because it's not this isn't a case of

1180
00:59:31,160 --> 00:59:35,280
Speaker 1: our industry has imploded. Our industry has has run its

1181
00:59:35,320 --> 00:59:39,040
Speaker 1: course and and has you know, has been a bubble.

1182
00:59:39,760 --> 00:59:43,480
Speaker 1: It's no, We're we're in a we're in an extraordinary situation,

1183
00:59:43,680 --> 00:59:47,000
Speaker 1: and our industry has, along with every other industry, to

1184
00:59:47,000 --> 00:59:49,880
Speaker 1: try and find, you know, a way away out of it. Yeah,

1185
00:59:50,360 --> 00:59:52,600
Speaker 1: some of the best products have come out of bearer

1186
00:59:52,640 --> 00:59:55,439
Speaker 1: markets to like, for example, was built in the last

1187
00:59:55,440 --> 00:59:58,040
Speaker 1: bearer market. This is really the time for building. This

1188
00:59:58,080 --> 01:00:01,480
Speaker 1: is why I'm kind of just enjoying it as I

1189
01:00:01,600 --> 01:00:03,280
Speaker 1: was six months ago, because I know we're just going

1190
01:00:03,320 --> 01:00:05,720
Speaker 1: to keep building. We're here for the long term. Um,

1191
01:00:05,760 --> 01:00:07,920
Speaker 1: it's a lot quieter to build in a bear market

1192
01:00:07,920 --> 01:00:10,400
Speaker 1: than in a ball market. There's harp porn about the

1193
01:00:10,400 --> 01:00:13,240
Speaker 1: recession thing again, but exactly the same thing with Uber

1194
01:00:13,280 --> 01:00:17,320
Speaker 1: and Airbnb were products of the last recession and you know,

1195
01:00:17,960 --> 01:00:22,840
Speaker 1: and they've gone into I mean, to become goliaths. Yeah. Yeah,

1196
01:00:24,080 --> 01:00:28,880
Speaker 1: innovation in in in the in the lean times is yeah,

1197
01:00:29,000 --> 01:00:31,600
Speaker 1: you have to. I guess perhaps it's a measure of

1198
01:00:32,040 --> 01:00:34,640
Speaker 1: if you're building something robust, if you can if you

1199
01:00:34,680 --> 01:00:38,560
Speaker 1: can build something during the most difficult of times when

1200
01:00:38,600 --> 01:00:42,640
Speaker 1: there really isn't that much you know, spare cash flying around,

1201
01:00:42,680 --> 01:00:44,960
Speaker 1: there isn't that much interest. If you can get it

1202
01:00:45,000 --> 01:00:47,520
Speaker 1: off the ground, then then that's the sort of early

1203
01:00:47,600 --> 01:00:50,920
Speaker 1: sign that you could well have a success on your hands. Absolutely.

1204
01:00:50,920 --> 01:00:53,000
Speaker 1: I think the question really is like how low do

1205
01:00:53,080 --> 01:00:54,920
Speaker 1: we go? And that's one question I would ask both

1206
01:00:54,920 --> 01:00:58,040
Speaker 1: of you guys, like without making you know, financial advice

1207
01:00:58,080 --> 01:01:00,160
Speaker 1: predictions or anything like how low do you think we're

1208
01:01:00,160 --> 01:01:04,560
Speaker 1: going to go in this spare cycle? What with bitcoin?

1209
01:01:04,760 --> 01:01:08,960
Speaker 1: I have absolutely no idea. We were talking the other

1210
01:01:09,080 --> 01:01:12,720
Speaker 1: day with sixteen point five was what some people were

1211
01:01:12,480 --> 01:01:15,360
Speaker 1: were saying potentially off air, What do we say on it?

1212
01:01:15,520 --> 01:01:18,560
Speaker 1: I can't remember. I think we might said on it? Yeah, yeah,

1213
01:01:18,600 --> 01:01:21,160
Speaker 1: I mean so many A lot of predictions have just

1214
01:01:21,200 --> 01:01:23,800
Speaker 1: been sort of went to me first. Never go to

1215
01:01:23,880 --> 01:01:29,040
Speaker 1: me first, a guy first, and I will give prices

1216
01:01:29,160 --> 01:01:31,840
Speaker 1: right and then go slightly blow. I think it. I

1217
01:01:31,880 --> 01:01:34,040
Speaker 1: think it makes just as much sense to go to you, Mike,

1218
01:01:34,160 --> 01:01:36,240
Speaker 1: because you know we were you know we are making

1219
01:01:36,360 --> 01:01:38,919
Speaker 1: we are making predictions. This is look I mean discussed early,

1220
01:01:39,000 --> 01:01:41,720
Speaker 1: isn't it. It's so hard to It's so it's impossible

1221
01:01:41,720 --> 01:01:44,440
Speaker 1: to what it did it? Doctor three or five in

1222
01:01:44,440 --> 01:01:48,080
Speaker 1: in two thousand and eighteen, I can't remember because I

1223
01:01:48,160 --> 01:01:51,520
Speaker 1: was dealing in pounds, so I can't remember what went

1224
01:01:51,520 --> 01:01:54,880
Speaker 1: down to as low as like, yeah, in dollars, Yeah,

1225
01:01:55,840 --> 01:01:59,040
Speaker 1: that would have been like November if I remember rightly.

1226
01:01:59,120 --> 01:02:05,480
Speaker 1: I think the rop from the high in November was no.

1227
01:02:05,480 --> 01:02:09,840
Speaker 1: November twenty seventeen to the to the subsequent low whenever

1228
01:02:09,880 --> 01:02:12,600
Speaker 1: it was in twenty eighteen was I think it was

1229
01:02:12,640 --> 01:02:16,720
Speaker 1: either eight or and we haven't fallen that far yet,

1230
01:02:16,920 --> 01:02:20,919
Speaker 1: which means I think we we could go. We could

1231
01:02:21,000 --> 01:02:23,800
Speaker 1: go as low as the ten to fourteen K range,

1232
01:02:23,960 --> 01:02:26,720
Speaker 1: I think. And I mean if you'd asked me this

1233
01:02:26,800 --> 01:02:29,160
Speaker 1: a few months ago, that would have that would have

1234
01:02:29,200 --> 01:02:31,680
Speaker 1: been impossible to me. And I remember so many we

1235
01:02:31,680 --> 01:02:33,960
Speaker 1: were all kind of talking, you know. First of all,

1236
01:02:34,000 --> 01:02:36,600
Speaker 1: it was like, well, it's difficult to see it dropping

1237
01:02:36,640 --> 01:02:40,520
Speaker 1: below forty k. Okay, it's difficult to see. And then

1238
01:02:40,520 --> 01:02:42,520
Speaker 1: everyone was kind of looking at twenty k is the

1239
01:02:42,520 --> 01:02:45,000
Speaker 1: top of the previous ballmarket, and as you as you said, Nate,

1240
01:02:45,040 --> 01:02:47,760
Speaker 1: you know, we we've never had this situation. We're down

1241
01:02:47,800 --> 01:02:50,880
Speaker 1: to seventeen. Yeah, it dipped, It dipped into the seventeen

1242
01:02:50,920 --> 01:02:55,360
Speaker 1: k range um. So yeah, I think I think we

1243
01:02:55,400 --> 01:02:57,880
Speaker 1: could go as as low as that. And I mean

1244
01:02:58,040 --> 01:03:00,520
Speaker 1: I think there are there's a lot of money I

1245
01:03:00,520 --> 01:03:03,240
Speaker 1: think waiting on the sidelines to to pile in at that,

1246
01:03:03,320 --> 01:03:06,000
Speaker 1: so I you know, I think you know, bitcoin can

1247
01:03:06,160 --> 01:03:11,120
Speaker 1: can confine support there um. But yeah, again, it's it's

1248
01:03:11,120 --> 01:03:13,600
Speaker 1: going back to all the factors that we've we've been

1249
01:03:13,640 --> 01:03:16,600
Speaker 1: talked about talking about I think we're just in such

1250
01:03:16,760 --> 01:03:20,720
Speaker 1: a you know, such what are you buying intigation? I

1251
01:03:20,760 --> 01:03:25,160
Speaker 1: think uh K would potentially be very attractive. Um, I

1252
01:03:25,160 --> 01:03:27,320
Speaker 1: would say, the lower it goes, I'll keep buying, just

1253
01:03:27,320 --> 01:03:29,280
Speaker 1: because I believe in the long Yeah. Yeah, And and and

1254
01:03:29,400 --> 01:03:33,680
Speaker 1: now you're buying just bitcoin, bitcoin, bitcoin, etherium, a few

1255
01:03:33,680 --> 01:03:35,600
Speaker 1: other little coins here and there that I believe in.

1256
01:03:35,600 --> 01:03:37,720
Speaker 1: Like I'm wearing a Cosmos T shirt. Oh yeah, I

1257
01:03:37,720 --> 01:03:40,320
Speaker 1: noticed that. So yeah, I like the Cosmos ecosystem quite

1258
01:03:40,320 --> 01:03:42,080
Speaker 1: a bit. I think it's another interesting one. What is

1259
01:03:42,200 --> 01:03:45,720
Speaker 1: I don't know anything about Cosmos. What's the application? What

1260
01:03:45,840 --> 01:03:49,720
Speaker 1: is it? So Cosmos is basically a layer zero, so

1261
01:03:49,840 --> 01:03:52,760
Speaker 1: not not a layer one. Layer one would be like Ethereum,

1262
01:03:52,760 --> 01:03:55,960
Speaker 1: but a layer zero allows many other blockchains to operate

1263
01:03:56,000 --> 01:03:57,840
Speaker 1: on top of it. Is this the one that we're

1264
01:03:57,840 --> 01:04:01,520
Speaker 1: talking about, the thread between the intro probability approach? Cool? Yeah,

1265
01:04:01,680 --> 01:04:03,800
Speaker 1: we've sort of I think we've maybe mentioned it in

1266
01:04:03,800 --> 01:04:06,160
Speaker 1: the context of something like Polka doos As, which is

1267
01:04:06,280 --> 01:04:10,080
Speaker 1: kind of a similar exactly. So today they announced that

1268
01:04:10,240 --> 01:04:13,400
Speaker 1: chains will be able to share what they call interchain security,

1269
01:04:13,840 --> 01:04:17,080
Speaker 1: so a new chain can launch and share the security

1270
01:04:17,280 --> 01:04:20,760
Speaker 1: of its parent chain, as opposed to, you know, try

1271
01:04:20,800 --> 01:04:22,440
Speaker 1: to get a bunch of validators to spin up and

1272
01:04:22,480 --> 01:04:25,000
Speaker 1: be processing all the transactions on the network. So so

1273
01:04:25,240 --> 01:04:28,600
Speaker 1: it takes the trickiness out of the decentralization of it. Yeah. Yeah,

1274
01:04:28,600 --> 01:04:31,120
Speaker 1: there's some interesting things about it. I also like that

1275
01:04:31,200 --> 01:04:35,240
Speaker 1: it's very much like a community kind of oriented chains. So,

1276
01:04:35,560 --> 01:04:38,320
Speaker 1: you know, some chains it's a heavy amount of venture

1277
01:04:38,320 --> 01:04:42,160
Speaker 1: capital investing um for which oftentimes venture capitalist don't have

1278
01:04:42,160 --> 01:04:45,680
Speaker 1: the strongest hands, but the communities that are participating or building,

1279
01:04:45,800 --> 01:04:49,480
Speaker 1: they hold the majority of the token supply that oftentimes

1280
01:04:49,480 --> 01:04:51,520
Speaker 1: the tokens can do much better because it's people that

1281
01:04:51,520 --> 01:04:53,560
Speaker 1: are building who believe in it, as opposed to just

1282
01:04:53,600 --> 01:04:56,600
Speaker 1: trying to see financial return from it. Yeah, I think

1283
01:04:56,640 --> 01:05:00,200
Speaker 1: I think cosmos Is is a project that's particular, really

1284
01:05:00,280 --> 01:05:03,560
Speaker 1: popular amongst you know, amongst the kind of tech the

1285
01:05:03,560 --> 01:05:07,200
Speaker 1: more technically minded people. Absolutely Metallic at one point said

1286
01:05:07,240 --> 01:05:09,720
Speaker 1: that if you were to redesign Ethereum from scratch, she

1287
01:05:09,760 --> 01:05:12,520
Speaker 1: would do it in a similar way to the works.

1288
01:05:15,040 --> 01:05:18,360
Speaker 1: Well there you are, folks, not not financial advice, that

1289
01:05:18,480 --> 01:05:24,200
Speaker 1: alpha none. That sounds quite a lot. We'll so well, we'll, we'll,

1290
01:05:24,280 --> 01:05:26,200
Speaker 1: we'll start wrapping up in a minute. But some one

1291
01:05:26,200 --> 01:05:28,800
Speaker 1: other thing I wanted to to to sound you out about, Nate,

1292
01:05:28,840 --> 01:05:32,520
Speaker 1: was we talked earlier about how you know crypto Bitcoin.

1293
01:05:32,680 --> 01:05:36,080
Speaker 1: I should say, bitcoin came about in the midst in

1294
01:05:36,120 --> 01:05:39,360
Speaker 1: the in the wake of the failure of the banking

1295
01:05:39,400 --> 01:05:42,520
Speaker 1: system and all these banks being bailed out by what

1296
01:05:42,920 --> 01:05:47,000
Speaker 1: by us really by by taxpayers. And now we have

1297
01:05:47,800 --> 01:05:51,240
Speaker 1: a situation in crypto where we have these big institutions

1298
01:05:51,280 --> 01:05:55,040
Speaker 1: failing the like you know, the our equivalent of banks

1299
01:05:55,120 --> 01:06:00,120
Speaker 1: if you like, the likes of three Hours Capital and Celsius, etcetera, etcetera. So,

1300
01:06:00,600 --> 01:06:04,000
Speaker 1: and we've talked about We've mentioned SPF, Sam Bankman Freed, who,

1301
01:06:04,520 --> 01:06:07,200
Speaker 1: for those who don't know, is the CEO of the

1302
01:06:07,280 --> 01:06:10,360
Speaker 1: ft X crypto exchange. He's also the founder of Alameda Research,

1303
01:06:10,560 --> 01:06:14,720
Speaker 1: is a massive crypto investment and trading company. H And

1304
01:06:15,600 --> 01:06:17,600
Speaker 1: SPF is in the news a lot at the moment

1305
01:06:17,600 --> 01:06:20,439
Speaker 1: because he is, you know, he's being cited as as

1306
01:06:20,560 --> 01:06:23,439
Speaker 1: as possibly a kind of I guess, like a white

1307
01:06:23,520 --> 01:06:25,960
Speaker 1: Knight to come in and rescue some of these companies

1308
01:06:25,960 --> 01:06:27,880
Speaker 1: and bail them out. So now, I mean, how do

1309
01:06:27,920 --> 01:06:29,640
Speaker 1: you feel about that? Now? Do you do you think

1310
01:06:29,640 --> 01:06:32,439
Speaker 1: that these companies should be rescued. Is there a case

1311
01:06:32,480 --> 01:06:35,600
Speaker 1: for it, or or should we kind of should we

1312
01:06:35,680 --> 01:06:39,880
Speaker 1: let them fail? Letting them fail would put customer deposits

1313
01:06:39,880 --> 01:06:41,959
Speaker 1: at risk, and that I would think is the worst

1314
01:06:42,040 --> 01:06:45,360
Speaker 1: possible thing. So, um, we don't want to scare more

1315
01:06:45,440 --> 01:06:48,640
Speaker 1: retail off from using crypto or investing in crypto. So

1316
01:06:49,160 --> 01:06:51,400
Speaker 1: I don't like the idea of them feeling for that reason.

1317
01:06:51,840 --> 01:06:55,760
Speaker 1: I do like the idea of kind of technological evolution,

1318
01:06:55,840 --> 01:06:57,880
Speaker 1: like getting rid of the ship projects and you know,

1319
01:06:57,960 --> 01:07:02,040
Speaker 1: putting the good projects at the top. But obviously, you know,

1320
01:07:02,080 --> 01:07:05,120
Speaker 1: there is that whole question of wanting to make sure

1321
01:07:05,160 --> 01:07:08,760
Speaker 1: that customers, oftentimes when they have their life savings, unfortunately

1322
01:07:08,800 --> 01:07:11,320
Speaker 1: at some of these on some of these protocols, them

1323
01:07:11,440 --> 01:07:13,800
Speaker 1: losing all their money is just bad for everyone. So

1324
01:07:13,920 --> 01:07:16,960
Speaker 1: if SPF is willing to be a white night, I'm

1325
01:07:17,000 --> 01:07:19,800
Speaker 1: fully in support of that. Yeah. Yeah, And I guess

1326
01:07:20,080 --> 01:07:22,680
Speaker 1: perhaps there's a perhaps there's a middle way. Perhaps there's

1327
01:07:22,680 --> 01:07:26,000
Speaker 1: a kind of middle ground whereby the you know, someone

1328
01:07:26,080 --> 01:07:29,760
Speaker 1: like SPF can come in get that, provide the liquidity,

1329
01:07:29,840 --> 01:07:33,120
Speaker 1: provide the you know, provide the funds, and the first

1330
01:07:33,160 --> 01:07:36,040
Speaker 1: thing that happens is that the users get their money back,

1331
01:07:36,080 --> 01:07:37,760
Speaker 1: you know, the people who have been who have been

1332
01:07:37,800 --> 01:07:39,440
Speaker 1: on the receiving end of this, and that you know,

1333
01:07:39,480 --> 01:07:41,360
Speaker 1: in the case of especially as Celsius, you know that

1334
01:07:41,520 --> 01:07:45,320
Speaker 1: is retail they if if they are prioritized, and then

1335
01:07:45,800 --> 01:07:48,360
Speaker 1: you know what's left of the of the company or

1336
01:07:48,360 --> 01:07:50,560
Speaker 1: the entity after that, you know, either it's kind of

1337
01:07:50,600 --> 01:07:54,920
Speaker 1: dismantled or asset stripped or whatever it is. It's just

1338
01:07:54,960 --> 01:07:57,240
Speaker 1: so important that you know that we at least learn

1339
01:07:57,280 --> 01:07:59,840
Speaker 1: the lessons from it. I guess absolutely. The one thing

1340
01:07:59,880 --> 01:08:02,600
Speaker 1: I I do find a little bit concerning it is,

1341
01:08:02,680 --> 01:08:05,120
Speaker 1: you know, we were talking about decentralization and how important

1342
01:08:05,160 --> 01:08:06,880
Speaker 1: that is, and I think that's also true for the

1343
01:08:06,960 --> 01:08:10,360
Speaker 1: ownership of some of these companies. Right now, SPF has

1344
01:08:10,400 --> 01:08:13,640
Speaker 1: acquired a stake and pretty significant stake, and Voyager in

1345
01:08:13,840 --> 01:08:18,479
Speaker 1: Robin Hood, um, there's potentially in block Fire two. So

1346
01:08:18,600 --> 01:08:20,680
Speaker 1: that that's a little bit scary to think about. There

1347
01:08:20,760 --> 01:08:23,759
Speaker 1: is one person who has someone's control over so many

1348
01:08:23,800 --> 01:08:27,840
Speaker 1: major entities. Yeah, yeah, it's and it's it's an odd situation,

1349
01:08:27,920 --> 01:08:30,280
Speaker 1: isn't it, Because I mean, I guess at times like this,

1350
01:08:30,479 --> 01:08:33,400
Speaker 1: you know, some people, some people lose everything, you know,

1351
01:08:33,600 --> 01:08:37,120
Speaker 1: it's it's a catastrophe for some, but it's an opportunity

1352
01:08:37,200 --> 01:08:39,400
Speaker 1: for others. And you know, you get this kind of

1353
01:08:39,760 --> 01:08:43,360
Speaker 1: redistribution of wealth. And yeah, I mean if that becomes

1354
01:08:43,400 --> 01:08:46,160
Speaker 1: more centralized, that that that can't be a good thing

1355
01:08:46,400 --> 01:08:49,120
Speaker 1: in the long run. Yeah, I agree, And this is

1356
01:08:49,200 --> 01:08:52,160
Speaker 1: another reason why self custody is just so important, Like

1357
01:08:52,240 --> 01:08:55,280
Speaker 1: people should just think about what are the benefits of

1358
01:08:55,280 --> 01:08:57,600
Speaker 1: holding an asset over a few years, as opposed to

1359
01:08:57,640 --> 01:09:00,320
Speaker 1: trying to eke out every little, you know, bit of

1360
01:09:00,400 --> 01:09:03,400
Speaker 1: interest from holding it on a centralized party, which could

1361
01:09:03,560 --> 01:09:06,880
Speaker 1: in these times was clearly shown completely fail or go

1362
01:09:07,000 --> 01:09:09,040
Speaker 1: down or you know, they can't access their fund and

1363
01:09:09,080 --> 01:09:11,360
Speaker 1: get funds again. So that's one piece of advice I

1364
01:09:11,400 --> 01:09:13,920
Speaker 1: would impart to anyone who's new to cryptos. Don't be

1365
01:09:14,000 --> 01:09:18,600
Speaker 1: too greedy. Yeah, yeah, it's I mean, it's it is

1366
01:09:18,640 --> 01:09:20,719
Speaker 1: easier said than done, but I mean, it's how many

1367
01:09:20,800 --> 01:09:26,800
Speaker 1: times do you just how I got into crypto? Mike

1368
01:09:26,920 --> 01:09:32,640
Speaker 1: is motivated purely by greed. He's not in it for

1369
01:09:32,640 --> 01:09:37,240
Speaker 1: the tech um. Yeah, it's it's so true. And how many,

1370
01:09:37,280 --> 01:09:38,920
Speaker 1: you know, how many times do we have to do

1371
01:09:39,000 --> 01:09:41,280
Speaker 1: we have to learn that lesson the hard way. But

1372
01:09:41,360 --> 01:09:44,160
Speaker 1: I guess, you know, we we we really, we really

1373
01:09:44,200 --> 01:09:46,920
Speaker 1: rebuild and we come back stronger, and yeah, I think

1374
01:09:46,960 --> 01:09:49,320
Speaker 1: it's I think it's really important if we can. You know,

1375
01:09:49,360 --> 01:09:51,519
Speaker 1: if everyone who holds crypto, if you hold a bit

1376
01:09:51,560 --> 01:09:54,760
Speaker 1: of bitcoin, maybe you should think of yourself as as

1377
01:09:54,800 --> 01:09:57,400
Speaker 1: a node on the network. You know, you think of

1378
01:09:57,439 --> 01:10:01,000
Speaker 1: yourself as part of the big the the wider picture

1379
01:10:01,040 --> 01:10:04,040
Speaker 1: of decentralization and that you know you're in charge of

1380
01:10:04,120 --> 01:10:07,080
Speaker 1: this is it's not just your money that you're taking

1381
01:10:07,080 --> 01:10:10,720
Speaker 1: custody off, but you're also kind of responsible for the

1382
01:10:10,760 --> 01:10:13,920
Speaker 1: network itself, for the survival of the network itself. Yeah,

1383
01:10:14,120 --> 01:10:17,080
Speaker 1: it's a much better way to participate in these different

1384
01:10:17,760 --> 01:10:21,400
Speaker 1: crypto assets than holding on an exchange. Like I really

1385
01:10:21,439 --> 01:10:22,960
Speaker 1: like the quote, you know, not your keys and not

1386
01:10:23,040 --> 01:10:25,920
Speaker 1: your coins. So I think people should be tattooing that

1387
01:10:25,960 --> 01:10:29,920
Speaker 1: in their mind, tattooing it backward on their forehead every

1388
01:10:29,960 --> 01:10:32,960
Speaker 1: time they look in the mirror. Okay, well, ny, this

1389
01:10:33,120 --> 01:10:34,680
Speaker 1: this has been great, and you know, there's so much

1390
01:10:34,680 --> 01:10:36,080
Speaker 1: I mean, there's so much more we can talk. We

1391
01:10:36,120 --> 01:10:37,960
Speaker 1: didn't even we didn't even get to the board ape

1392
01:10:38,040 --> 01:10:42,360
Speaker 1: Nazi Club or anything like that. This is quickly they're

1393
01:10:42,360 --> 01:10:47,080
Speaker 1: not really Nazis. They claim they're not. Um Okay, to

1394
01:10:47,200 --> 01:10:50,040
Speaker 1: be honest, I don't know, I don't, I don't know,

1395
01:10:50,320 --> 01:10:54,920
Speaker 1: but it's I I saw this like on Twitter, and

1396
01:10:55,240 --> 01:10:59,320
Speaker 1: I sort of I just I just my instant thought was,

1397
01:11:00,520 --> 01:11:03,599
Speaker 1: as we were saying, how you know how Crypto seems

1398
01:11:03,640 --> 01:11:09,400
Speaker 1: to be quite bipartisan, this could be something to fuddy

1399
01:11:09,479 --> 01:11:12,200
Speaker 1: up the thing and go, okay, cool this putting it

1400
01:11:12,240 --> 01:11:14,479
Speaker 1: on sides and stuff like that, because I've never seen

1401
01:11:15,040 --> 01:11:17,880
Speaker 1: anything like that. But then again, I only sort of tweeting.

1402
01:11:17,920 --> 01:11:19,760
Speaker 1: I had no I didn't look any further than that

1403
01:11:19,800 --> 01:11:21,840
Speaker 1: and just made my own assumption. So I'm interested to

1404
01:11:21,880 --> 01:11:24,519
Speaker 1: hear what what what someone who knows what they're talking

1405
01:11:24,560 --> 01:11:30,519
Speaker 1: about kids share some light on it. Yeah, I'm not

1406
01:11:30,600 --> 01:11:32,960
Speaker 1: too educated on the story. I know that the board

1407
01:11:32,960 --> 01:11:35,880
Speaker 1: A team does have pretty diverse backgrounds, like there are

1408
01:11:36,280 --> 01:11:38,280
Speaker 1: there are Jews, so I guess it is possible to

1409
01:11:38,320 --> 01:11:43,000
Speaker 1: be a Jewish Nazi. This is that case. Yeah, there,

1410
01:11:43,080 --> 01:11:45,400
Speaker 1: you know, it's a pretty diverse group. They've defended themselves.

1411
01:11:45,400 --> 01:11:47,640
Speaker 1: They've said, you know, some of the imagery that they

1412
01:11:47,680 --> 01:11:50,040
Speaker 1: created it might be similar to some of what would

1413
01:11:50,040 --> 01:11:53,840
Speaker 1: be considered Nazi imagery but really yeah, well so like

1414
01:11:53,880 --> 01:11:58,160
Speaker 1: the skull and crossbones basically like that was, but that

1415
01:11:58,200 --> 01:12:01,280
Speaker 1: could also be pirates. Yeah, I think I think one

1416
01:12:01,320 --> 01:12:02,960
Speaker 1: of the I think one of the things that they

1417
01:12:03,439 --> 01:12:05,960
Speaker 1: counted with was that because I think, yeah, there was

1418
01:12:06,000 --> 01:12:08,040
Speaker 1: a lot of controversy over the over the board at

1419
01:12:08,080 --> 01:12:11,160
Speaker 1: Yacht Club logo, which was shown to look kind of

1420
01:12:11,240 --> 01:12:13,920
Speaker 1: similar to the I think it was the logo of

1421
01:12:13,960 --> 01:12:18,479
Speaker 1: the the SS, the German s the Nazis double the death,

1422
01:12:18,520 --> 01:12:22,160
Speaker 1: said the Totten Coop. I'm going to say that that

1423
01:12:22,240 --> 01:12:25,519
Speaker 1: lightning strikes also on Harry Potter's forehead. Well, I mean,

1424
01:12:25,560 --> 01:12:30,160
Speaker 1: that's a whole that's a whole other I think I

1425
01:12:30,160 --> 01:12:34,960
Speaker 1: think the people would say that the writer, do not

1426
01:12:35,080 --> 01:12:37,559
Speaker 1: go there, do not go there. I think I think

1427
01:12:37,560 --> 01:12:39,000
Speaker 1: one of the things that you labs have come back

1428
01:12:39,000 --> 01:12:40,880
Speaker 1: and said, it's like, well that that is very much

1429
01:12:40,920 --> 01:12:43,920
Speaker 1: inspired by skater imagery. You know that that's where that

1430
01:12:43,960 --> 01:12:46,479
Speaker 1: comes from. And I guess it just points that, you know,

1431
01:12:46,720 --> 01:12:49,559
Speaker 1: these things, everything is so kind of interlinked now and

1432
01:12:49,600 --> 01:12:51,920
Speaker 1: it's so again it's what we were talking about earlier.

1433
01:12:52,360 --> 01:12:55,519
Speaker 1: You have this information, it's so difficult to know what

1434
01:12:55,680 --> 01:12:58,200
Speaker 1: to believe and what to you know, what is it?

1435
01:12:58,280 --> 01:13:01,320
Speaker 1: What is a credible source and what isn't similar. We

1436
01:13:01,320 --> 01:13:04,559
Speaker 1: were talking about this off fair with four chan turned

1437
01:13:05,400 --> 01:13:11,000
Speaker 1: the okay sign into the white power sign, and you know,

1438
01:13:11,120 --> 01:13:14,720
Speaker 1: so like you've got you've got President Obama doing the

1439
01:13:14,720 --> 01:13:17,840
Speaker 1: okay sign and like it's just because it's it's sort

1440
01:13:17,840 --> 01:13:21,120
Speaker 1: of decided on on on the murky underworld of of

1441
01:13:21,280 --> 01:13:23,640
Speaker 1: four chan. Doesn't mean that it's actually true. But then

1442
01:13:23,680 --> 01:13:28,479
Speaker 1: it gets blown up and the media sort of backing

1443
01:13:28,600 --> 01:13:31,400
Speaker 1: up just by running this story. Almost yeah, I don't

1444
01:13:31,400 --> 01:13:33,599
Speaker 1: know about you know, but I mean, if this, if

1445
01:13:33,640 --> 01:13:36,240
Speaker 1: this sarga and obviously this is still unfolding, you know this,

1446
01:13:36,479 --> 01:13:38,880
Speaker 1: there's there's a lot more to come come from this story.

1447
01:13:38,920 --> 01:13:41,080
Speaker 1: I think that one thing it taught me was like

1448
01:13:41,520 --> 01:13:46,439
Speaker 1: how little I really know about kind of internet culture. Yeah,

1449
01:13:46,479 --> 01:13:48,880
Speaker 1: it runs so deep. Yeah, there are so many memes

1450
01:13:48,920 --> 01:13:51,120
Speaker 1: that take into consideration. Another you know, the Peppe of

1451
01:13:51,160 --> 01:13:53,680
Speaker 1: the Frog at one point was like very much a

1452
01:13:53,680 --> 01:13:56,840
Speaker 1: crypto thing, and then apparently the rates started attributing it

1453
01:13:56,880 --> 01:13:59,960
Speaker 1: as well, saying it's their MASc arts. So whose meme is?

1454
01:14:00,040 --> 01:14:07,360
Speaker 1: Who war? Wow? Okay um, And just before we just

1455
01:14:07,400 --> 01:14:09,720
Speaker 1: before we finish up. The last time we had the

1456
01:14:09,720 --> 01:14:12,000
Speaker 1: guys from Crypto Busy in here a couple of weeks ago,

1457
01:14:12,160 --> 01:14:15,720
Speaker 1: and we asked them what they're kind of coping strategy

1458
01:14:15,840 --> 01:14:17,760
Speaker 1: was for a bear market. You know what happens when

1459
01:14:17,800 --> 01:14:20,880
Speaker 1: you check your portfolio in the morning, it's read across

1460
01:14:20,920 --> 01:14:22,680
Speaker 1: the board and you think, how do you so, how

1461
01:14:22,720 --> 01:14:24,760
Speaker 1: do you how do you deal with a day like that?

1462
01:14:24,840 --> 01:14:27,439
Speaker 1: How do you stressed? I like to just go outside.

1463
01:14:27,680 --> 01:14:29,880
Speaker 1: And I was telling you about the one wheel earlier,

1464
01:14:29,960 --> 01:14:33,360
Speaker 1: which is kind of like a interistic hoverboard slash skateboard,

1465
01:14:33,400 --> 01:14:36,280
Speaker 1: which is just super fun. And I'm not thinking about

1466
01:14:36,320 --> 01:14:38,439
Speaker 1: crypto I'm thinking about how do I not break my arm?

1467
01:14:39,640 --> 01:14:42,280
Speaker 1: How do I stay on this thing? Yeah? So the

1468
01:14:42,280 --> 01:14:44,360
Speaker 1: way that you cope with it is putting yourself in

1469
01:14:44,479 --> 01:14:47,479
Speaker 1: extreme danger. Yeah, I'm either in financial danger or physical

1470
01:14:49,880 --> 01:14:52,320
Speaker 1: So I think I'll go over a bit of physical

1471
01:14:52,400 --> 01:14:59,000
Speaker 1: danger this morning. Yeah, exactly, diversify your risk. Well, there

1472
01:14:59,040 --> 01:15:01,640
Speaker 1: you are, people. Yeah, the if the crypto markets are

1473
01:15:01,640 --> 01:15:03,960
Speaker 1: getting you down, if there's too much read in your portfolio,

1474
01:15:04,120 --> 01:15:06,000
Speaker 1: get out on a get out on a one wheel,

1475
01:15:06,080 --> 01:15:09,000
Speaker 1: put yourself in some maybe drinking before doing it, you know,

1476
01:15:09,360 --> 01:15:12,559
Speaker 1: don't listen to Mike put yourself in some physical jeopardy

1477
01:15:12,680 --> 01:15:16,840
Speaker 1: and you know, watch those crypto related troubles melt away. Nate,

1478
01:15:16,880 --> 01:15:18,880
Speaker 1: thank you so much for coming in today. It's been

1479
01:15:18,920 --> 01:15:20,439
Speaker 1: great to talk to you. I mean we could have

1480
01:15:20,439 --> 01:15:22,280
Speaker 1: gone on for hours and hours and hours. So I

1481
01:15:22,280 --> 01:15:24,920
Speaker 1: hope you'll I hope you'll join us again sometime. Absolutely, Yeah,

1482
01:15:24,920 --> 01:15:26,400
Speaker 1: thank you so much for having me. It's a bit

1483
01:15:26,400 --> 01:15:29,160
Speaker 1: and honor. It's a pleasure. It's a pleasure. Yes. Crypto

1484
01:15:29,240 --> 01:15:31,880
Speaker 1: Slate is the site checking out folks. It is a

1485
01:15:31,920 --> 01:15:35,439
Speaker 1: wonderful resource for all things crypto, and I hope you

1486
01:15:35,439 --> 01:15:37,880
Speaker 1: can join us again next week. Thank you so much

1487
01:15:37,920 --> 01:15:40,479
Speaker 1: for listening to the coin Bureau podcast. If you'd like

1488
01:15:40,520 --> 01:15:43,719
Speaker 1: to learn more about cryptocurrency, you can visit our YouTube

1489
01:15:43,760 --> 01:15:47,280
Speaker 1: channel at YouTube dot com forward slash coin Bureau. You

1490
01:15:47,320 --> 01:15:49,639
Speaker 1: can also go to coin bureau dot com for loads

1491
01:15:49,640 --> 01:15:52,640
Speaker 1: more information about all things crypto. You can follow me

1492
01:15:52,680 --> 01:15:55,080
Speaker 1: on Twitter and at coin bureau all one word, and

1493
01:15:55,120 --> 01:15:58,719
Speaker 1: I'm also active on TikTok and Instagram as well. First

1494
01:15:58,720 --> 01:16:01,719
Speaker 1: of all, it's not thank you for listening. You're welcome

1495
01:16:02,040 --> 01:16:06,400
Speaker 1: for great content. Yeah, like this is free and they're

1496
01:16:06,479 --> 01:16:10,400
Speaker 1: learning about a fairly great topic in a non boring way.

1497
01:16:10,720 --> 01:16:13,080
Speaker 1: If you'd like to visit me and hear more about me,

1498
01:16:13,760 --> 01:16:16,360
Speaker 1: go to mooch About m O O c H A

1499
01:16:16,560 --> 01:16:29,680
Speaker 1: b O U T or else. For more podcasts from

1500
01:16:29,680 --> 01:16:33,520
Speaker 1: I heart Radio, visit the i heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts,

1501
01:16:33,720 --> 01:16:44,559
Speaker 1: or wherever we get your podcasts. The coin geer a podcast,

1502
01:16:44,720 --> 01:17:08,280
Speaker 1: is a production of I heart Radio on mon