1 00:00:09,360 --> 00:00:12,799 Speaker 1: You're listening to Alive Again, a production of Psychopia Pictures 2 00:00:12,840 --> 00:00:14,400 Speaker 1: and iHeart Podcasts. 3 00:00:16,000 --> 00:00:20,440 Speaker 2: My name is Reesa Bailey. My name is Reesa Collins. 4 00:00:20,480 --> 00:00:23,560 Speaker 2: At the time of this story, when I almost died 5 00:00:24,280 --> 00:00:27,960 Speaker 2: at the bottom of the Grand Canyon. I have a 6 00:00:28,000 --> 00:00:32,920 Speaker 2: story about faith, doubt and self discovery and having adventures 7 00:00:33,000 --> 00:00:38,360 Speaker 2: outside of your comfort zone. 8 00:00:39,600 --> 00:00:44,479 Speaker 1: Welcome to Alive Again, a podcast that showcases miraculous accounts 9 00:00:44,479 --> 00:00:47,920 Speaker 1: of human fragility and resilience from people whose lives were 10 00:00:47,920 --> 00:00:52,959 Speaker 1: forever altered after having almost died. These are first hand 11 00:00:53,000 --> 00:00:56,840 Speaker 1: accounts of near death experiences and more broadly, brushes with death. 12 00:00:57,720 --> 00:01:01,040 Speaker 1: Our mission is simple, find, explore, and share these stories 13 00:01:01,120 --> 00:01:03,920 Speaker 1: to remind us all of our shared human condition. Please 14 00:01:04,000 --> 00:01:06,280 Speaker 1: keep in mind these stories are true and maybe triggering 15 00:01:06,319 --> 00:01:08,560 Speaker 1: for some listener and discretion as advised. 16 00:01:18,640 --> 00:01:21,280 Speaker 2: I was raised in Winsusalem, which is in North Carolina. 17 00:01:21,920 --> 00:01:25,319 Speaker 2: I had a wonderful childhood. Was surrounded by huge amounts 18 00:01:25,360 --> 00:01:31,759 Speaker 2: of extended family and a church. Family. Church was always 19 00:01:31,760 --> 00:01:35,720 Speaker 2: important to me. I was raised as a mainline Methodist 20 00:01:36,080 --> 00:01:39,000 Speaker 2: and a small church. And then when I got to 21 00:01:39,000 --> 00:01:42,560 Speaker 2: be a teenager, I got involved in young life and 22 00:01:42,600 --> 00:01:49,080 Speaker 2: that led me in a more evangelical direction. Young Life 23 00:01:49,160 --> 00:01:52,400 Speaker 2: is a Christian outreach to high school students, and it's 24 00:01:52,520 --> 00:01:54,440 Speaker 2: meant to be lots of fun so that high school 25 00:01:54,440 --> 00:01:57,160 Speaker 2: students will enjoy it. And I took a lot of 26 00:01:57,200 --> 00:01:59,360 Speaker 2: trips with Young Life, and on my way to a 27 00:01:59,360 --> 00:02:03,000 Speaker 2: Young Life camp in Colorado one summer, we stopped at 28 00:02:03,040 --> 00:02:14,400 Speaker 2: a place called Noah's Ar Rafting Company. They took us 29 00:02:14,480 --> 00:02:19,440 Speaker 2: rafting for a half day, and I loved the rafting, 30 00:02:20,040 --> 00:02:25,320 Speaker 2: even though I'd never done anything like that before. I 31 00:02:25,560 --> 00:02:30,880 Speaker 2: was just blown away by the natural beauty and by 32 00:02:32,040 --> 00:02:35,320 Speaker 2: how much fun rafting looked like to do every day. 33 00:02:35,639 --> 00:02:38,280 Speaker 2: I was like, I want to do this full time 34 00:02:38,360 --> 00:02:41,160 Speaker 2: for my job, you know. That's what sounded so fun 35 00:02:41,320 --> 00:02:52,000 Speaker 2: to me and so amazing. I'd spent a lot of 36 00:02:52,040 --> 00:02:56,480 Speaker 2: time growing up outside a lot of time, but I 37 00:02:56,520 --> 00:03:01,040 Speaker 2: had never done like official outdoor activities really like rafting 38 00:03:01,120 --> 00:03:04,920 Speaker 2: or a lot of hiking or so it was. It 39 00:03:04,960 --> 00:03:07,640 Speaker 2: was just thrilling to take that one step further and 40 00:03:07,720 --> 00:03:10,680 Speaker 2: think that, like I could see all these beautiful things 41 00:03:11,240 --> 00:03:16,520 Speaker 2: all day long. And so my sophomore year of college, 42 00:03:16,560 --> 00:03:18,880 Speaker 2: I decided I would apply for a summer job at 43 00:03:18,960 --> 00:03:21,239 Speaker 2: Noah's Arc. Didn't think I would get it because I 44 00:03:21,240 --> 00:03:24,760 Speaker 2: had no outdoor experience, but I had ministry experience and 45 00:03:24,800 --> 00:03:26,480 Speaker 2: that's part of what they were looking for. And so 46 00:03:27,440 --> 00:03:29,360 Speaker 2: I was offered the position to work there, and I 47 00:03:29,400 --> 00:03:33,640 Speaker 2: was trained in rafting and backpacking and rock climbing and 48 00:03:33,720 --> 00:03:36,360 Speaker 2: leading trips. It was a whole new world. It was 49 00:03:36,400 --> 00:03:38,920 Speaker 2: a big challenge. I mean, I literally had never set 50 00:03:38,960 --> 00:03:44,440 Speaker 2: up a tent before. So I had to tell my 51 00:03:44,560 --> 00:03:47,200 Speaker 2: parents that I wanted to do this job and that 52 00:03:47,280 --> 00:03:50,880 Speaker 2: I had the job. And my mom was really concerned 53 00:03:51,000 --> 00:03:55,240 Speaker 2: about my safety and going so far away, because that 54 00:03:55,360 --> 00:03:58,120 Speaker 2: is not what my family did at all. I mean, 55 00:03:58,680 --> 00:04:03,120 Speaker 2: most of my family lives right in Winston Salem. But 56 00:04:03,160 --> 00:04:05,960 Speaker 2: in the end she was supportive, and I think my 57 00:04:06,080 --> 00:04:09,760 Speaker 2: dad was secretly really excited and proud about me working 58 00:04:09,800 --> 00:04:12,640 Speaker 2: out there. I think he thought that was really exciting 59 00:04:12,680 --> 00:04:21,919 Speaker 2: and neat, you know. I picked up all the stuff 60 00:04:21,920 --> 00:04:23,360 Speaker 2: I had they had sent me a list of all 61 00:04:23,400 --> 00:04:27,800 Speaker 2: the stuff I needed, and then flew out there. Here. 62 00:04:27,880 --> 00:04:31,479 Speaker 2: I am literally out in the middle of nowhere in 63 00:04:31,560 --> 00:04:35,279 Speaker 2: central Colorado, and I am a long way from home, 64 00:04:37,040 --> 00:04:41,560 Speaker 2: and it was pretty wild, so no was Our crafting 65 00:04:41,960 --> 00:04:45,960 Speaker 2: was in the Univista Colorado in the very central part 66 00:04:46,000 --> 00:04:51,440 Speaker 2: of Colorado. It's a beautiful little town, little western town, 67 00:04:52,440 --> 00:04:56,479 Speaker 2: and a lot of rough guides lived there, and we 68 00:04:56,600 --> 00:04:59,600 Speaker 2: hung out together on our time off, and we had 69 00:04:59,720 --> 00:05:02,560 Speaker 2: so so much fun, just all these young people with 70 00:05:02,600 --> 00:05:06,839 Speaker 2: sort of the same interest and values, and it was 71 00:05:06,920 --> 00:05:11,359 Speaker 2: just a blast. The Arkansas River that I worked on 72 00:05:11,680 --> 00:05:16,040 Speaker 2: ran straight through the town. The rapids were challenging, you know, 73 00:05:16,080 --> 00:05:19,040 Speaker 2: whitewater is always dangerous, but I had to learn how 74 00:05:19,040 --> 00:05:22,200 Speaker 2: to row and pretty much handle the whole thing myself. 75 00:05:23,040 --> 00:05:25,880 Speaker 2: I wasn't getting help from passengers. They're just holding on. 76 00:05:26,160 --> 00:05:28,640 Speaker 2: So you have these big oars, and we would go 77 00:05:28,680 --> 00:05:31,760 Speaker 2: through tight sections where you had to like tuck your 78 00:05:31,800 --> 00:05:35,000 Speaker 2: oars in so they didn't like pop out and hit you, 79 00:05:35,120 --> 00:05:41,200 Speaker 2: which did happen. I remember being just horribly sore, being 80 00:05:41,279 --> 00:05:44,640 Speaker 2: uncomfortable in every way possible. I would get like three 81 00:05:44,720 --> 00:05:46,560 Speaker 2: days into the week, and then I would start saying 82 00:05:46,600 --> 00:05:49,800 Speaker 2: to myself for the next trip, I'm just gonna tell 83 00:05:49,880 --> 00:05:53,080 Speaker 2: them I can't do this. And then that's what I 84 00:05:53,120 --> 00:05:54,880 Speaker 2: would tell myself until I got to the next trip, 85 00:05:54,880 --> 00:05:57,279 Speaker 2: and then I would just do the next trip. And 86 00:05:57,320 --> 00:05:58,840 Speaker 2: then the whole time I was doing that trip, I 87 00:05:58,839 --> 00:06:01,200 Speaker 2: would say the next I'm gonna tell them I can't 88 00:06:01,240 --> 00:06:03,720 Speaker 2: do it. I just can't do it. And I literally 89 00:06:03,760 --> 00:06:06,520 Speaker 2: worked my way through a whole week that way, just 90 00:06:06,600 --> 00:06:08,359 Speaker 2: telling myself I didn't have to do it next, but 91 00:06:08,400 --> 00:06:12,160 Speaker 2: then I would actually do it and get through it somehow. 92 00:06:12,520 --> 00:06:15,480 Speaker 2: I think it's really painful at first, and till your 93 00:06:15,480 --> 00:06:17,239 Speaker 2: body got used to it and you had to become 94 00:06:17,279 --> 00:06:21,880 Speaker 2: more efficient as a wrath guide. It's not as hard 95 00:06:22,440 --> 00:06:28,240 Speaker 2: once your skill level goes up. That was a good 96 00:06:28,279 --> 00:06:31,719 Speaker 2: life lesson, Right, I can persevere through really hard things, 97 00:06:31,920 --> 00:06:34,240 Speaker 2: and you really just have to stay kind of one 98 00:06:34,600 --> 00:06:37,839 Speaker 2: moment at a time, right, just sometimes you're just making 99 00:06:37,880 --> 00:06:39,800 Speaker 2: it and that's okay, but you can get all the 100 00:06:39,800 --> 00:06:44,000 Speaker 2: way through, you know, just trying to persevere. It was 101 00:06:44,279 --> 00:06:48,360 Speaker 2: very challenging, but wonderful and neat, you know. I really 102 00:06:48,480 --> 00:06:50,520 Speaker 2: I loved it. It was worth it for me for sure. 103 00:06:52,800 --> 00:06:57,520 Speaker 2: The community is just really supportive and made some of 104 00:06:57,800 --> 00:06:59,800 Speaker 2: the best friends of my life there and still keeping 105 00:07:00,320 --> 00:07:04,520 Speaker 2: with some of them. We had so much fun. So 106 00:07:04,560 --> 00:07:07,520 Speaker 2: I spent these amazing summers, you know, in the Rockies, 107 00:07:08,160 --> 00:07:13,400 Speaker 2: going up to high altitude backpacking and rafting down gorgeous rivers, 108 00:07:16,000 --> 00:07:19,600 Speaker 2: so a typical week working at Noah's Arc as a 109 00:07:19,640 --> 00:07:23,800 Speaker 2: guide would mean you might spend your week running river 110 00:07:23,880 --> 00:07:26,840 Speaker 2: trips for groups that come in for a half day 111 00:07:27,120 --> 00:07:30,040 Speaker 2: or for a full day wrath, and then if they 112 00:07:30,080 --> 00:07:32,080 Speaker 2: wanted to do like all of our activities, we might 113 00:07:32,120 --> 00:07:35,120 Speaker 2: take them rock climbing, and then we might take them 114 00:07:35,120 --> 00:07:37,640 Speaker 2: out on a backpack trip for three days or five 115 00:07:37,760 --> 00:07:40,640 Speaker 2: days and spend the whole week with that group of 116 00:07:40,720 --> 00:07:45,440 Speaker 2: young people and their leaders. I remember one day we 117 00:07:45,440 --> 00:07:47,280 Speaker 2: were pretty deep in because we were on a multi 118 00:07:47,360 --> 00:07:51,440 Speaker 2: day backpack and we were kind of hiking over maybe 119 00:07:51,440 --> 00:07:54,840 Speaker 2: some ridges and like some screen fields, like some rock fields, 120 00:07:55,480 --> 00:07:57,840 Speaker 2: and we came over the ridge and then you had 121 00:07:57,880 --> 00:08:03,760 Speaker 2: a view of like a football field full of wildflowers. 122 00:08:05,200 --> 00:08:09,360 Speaker 2: It was amazing, and you just thought, not many people 123 00:08:09,400 --> 00:08:13,080 Speaker 2: are seeing this, but it's just out here, this incredible beauty, 124 00:08:14,160 --> 00:08:17,520 Speaker 2: you know, surrounded by all the mountains, and it's kind 125 00:08:17,520 --> 00:08:26,080 Speaker 2: of it was pretty breathtaking. So I think that prior 126 00:08:26,160 --> 00:08:31,080 Speaker 2: to seeing this, I had a way of thinking about 127 00:08:31,160 --> 00:08:35,480 Speaker 2: God was I had to do some work and then 128 00:08:35,880 --> 00:08:43,640 Speaker 2: God would bless me, which I think was kind of 129 00:08:43,640 --> 00:08:48,880 Speaker 2: a narrow perspective. And then when I saw this amazing sight, 130 00:08:50,800 --> 00:08:58,520 Speaker 2: I was just really overwhelmed with God's goodness and over 131 00:08:58,679 --> 00:09:05,319 Speaker 2: abundance of beauty. I think I realized that this incredible, 132 00:09:05,440 --> 00:09:10,920 Speaker 2: beautiful scene was just there, even if human eye saw 133 00:09:10,960 --> 00:09:24,600 Speaker 2: it or not. I went to college at wake Forest University, 134 00:09:25,280 --> 00:09:27,280 Speaker 2: which is in Winston Salem at the time that I 135 00:09:27,760 --> 00:09:30,120 Speaker 2: grew up. So that's kind of funny, right, I mean, 136 00:09:30,120 --> 00:09:32,480 Speaker 2: most people go away to college. You're excited to go 137 00:09:32,520 --> 00:09:35,360 Speaker 2: away to college after high school. I had applied to 138 00:09:35,400 --> 00:09:38,559 Speaker 2: a few different places, but I really loved rick Forest, 139 00:09:38,720 --> 00:09:41,000 Speaker 2: even though I was in my hometown. It was known 140 00:09:41,040 --> 00:09:44,400 Speaker 2: for liberal arts, which is definitely what I wanted to study. 141 00:09:46,720 --> 00:09:48,520 Speaker 2: When I was at wake Forest, I wasn't sure at 142 00:09:48,520 --> 00:09:51,240 Speaker 2: first what I wanted to study, but I quickly realized 143 00:09:51,280 --> 00:09:53,880 Speaker 2: that I likely wanted to go into the ministry in 144 00:09:53,920 --> 00:09:58,120 Speaker 2: some way. Wasn't sure exactly how, but I decided to 145 00:09:58,160 --> 00:10:02,000 Speaker 2: study religion. So I had good advice that just said, 146 00:10:02,280 --> 00:10:06,319 Speaker 2: you should really study what you love and you'll figure 147 00:10:06,320 --> 00:10:11,000 Speaker 2: it out from there. So I majored in religion. Prior 148 00:10:11,080 --> 00:10:13,840 Speaker 2: to my study of religion in college, I had just 149 00:10:13,880 --> 00:10:19,439 Speaker 2: been involved in like devotional study. I got to college 150 00:10:19,480 --> 00:10:22,719 Speaker 2: classes in religion, some of them Christian studies and some 151 00:10:22,800 --> 00:10:27,040 Speaker 2: of them other religions, and that is a much more 152 00:10:27,040 --> 00:10:31,400 Speaker 2: skeptical viewpoint. You know, it's like, how can you be 153 00:10:31,440 --> 00:10:34,880 Speaker 2: sure this happened? Or you know, why was this book 154 00:10:34,920 --> 00:10:37,120 Speaker 2: accepted into the canon, or how do we know who 155 00:10:37,120 --> 00:10:40,120 Speaker 2: wrote that book? Or you know, what does the cultural 156 00:10:40,240 --> 00:10:46,440 Speaker 2: context mean? You really get pushed. And I loved it. 157 00:10:46,960 --> 00:10:50,320 Speaker 2: I love these classes, I love studying it, but it 158 00:10:50,360 --> 00:10:55,480 Speaker 2: also raised a lot of questions in my mind. So 159 00:10:55,559 --> 00:10:57,400 Speaker 2: now maybe you can see why it was so nice 160 00:10:57,400 --> 00:11:00,960 Speaker 2: for me to get away to Colorado, so, you know, 161 00:11:01,040 --> 00:11:05,319 Speaker 2: away from these heavy questions of school and into the 162 00:11:05,400 --> 00:11:08,439 Speaker 2: natural beauty and this physical work that was so fun 163 00:11:08,760 --> 00:11:11,960 Speaker 2: and tiring and used just a totally different part of me. 164 00:11:18,280 --> 00:11:21,920 Speaker 2: So it was wonderful when I had this you know 165 00:11:22,000 --> 00:11:25,080 Speaker 2: break where I finished my exams and I could head 166 00:11:25,160 --> 00:11:27,920 Speaker 2: out west to do this outdoor job that had no 167 00:11:28,040 --> 00:11:33,560 Speaker 2: studies involved and it was very you know, physical, and 168 00:11:33,559 --> 00:11:36,840 Speaker 2: it was just wonderful to get away. It was just 169 00:11:37,360 --> 00:11:42,840 Speaker 2: an amazing idyllic life where three seasons on campus with friends, 170 00:11:42,880 --> 00:11:46,320 Speaker 2: having a great time, studying hard, and then I got 171 00:11:46,320 --> 00:11:50,160 Speaker 2: to leave and miss all the humidity of North Carolina 172 00:11:50,520 --> 00:11:52,400 Speaker 2: and go out west and the beautiful weather and be 173 00:11:52,480 --> 00:11:55,400 Speaker 2: in nature all summer to this other amazing group of friends. 174 00:11:57,679 --> 00:12:00,679 Speaker 2: I did this for three years, studying really and doing 175 00:12:00,760 --> 00:12:05,240 Speaker 2: summer ministry at Noah's Ark, and then one day in 176 00:12:05,280 --> 00:12:10,000 Speaker 2: my senior year of college, I just realized, oh, I'm 177 00:12:10,040 --> 00:12:16,280 Speaker 2: not sure what I believe anymore, and it was really scary. 178 00:12:16,400 --> 00:12:20,040 Speaker 2: So I studied other religions and understood for the first 179 00:12:20,120 --> 00:12:22,840 Speaker 2: time that there are huge amounts of people who devote 180 00:12:22,840 --> 00:12:25,800 Speaker 2: their life to these other religions and had to get 181 00:12:25,840 --> 00:12:30,440 Speaker 2: confronted with the idea that like, where does salvation come from? 182 00:12:31,200 --> 00:12:34,439 Speaker 2: And it? You know, are we all worshiping the same God? 183 00:12:36,000 --> 00:12:40,559 Speaker 2: I think I understood that there's truth in all of it. 184 00:12:40,679 --> 00:12:44,079 Speaker 2: That just helped me understand some of the mysteries are okay, 185 00:12:44,320 --> 00:12:48,800 Speaker 2: you know that we're really here to ponder and to 186 00:12:48,920 --> 00:13:01,840 Speaker 2: discuss and to not understand fully. So I had this 187 00:13:01,960 --> 00:13:06,440 Speaker 2: crisis of faith, and I was doubting all of the 188 00:13:06,480 --> 00:13:10,720 Speaker 2: basic tenets of Christianity. I think it was just the 189 00:13:10,720 --> 00:13:13,240 Speaker 2: first time, after all the studies that I had been 190 00:13:13,280 --> 00:13:16,760 Speaker 2: doing in my religion major, that I fully allowed myself 191 00:13:16,840 --> 00:13:21,760 Speaker 2: to say, like, really, like is that really what I believe? 192 00:13:23,200 --> 00:13:28,439 Speaker 2: Do I believe that Jesus died, Do I believe Jesus 193 00:13:29,000 --> 00:13:35,600 Speaker 2: rose again? Do I believe any of it? That really 194 00:13:35,640 --> 00:13:39,640 Speaker 2: pulled the rug out from under me. It was very 195 00:13:39,679 --> 00:13:48,280 Speaker 2: disorienting and confusing. I had been really identifying with these 196 00:13:48,400 --> 00:13:51,480 Speaker 2: Christian groups. Then I think I was reaching the point 197 00:13:51,520 --> 00:13:54,319 Speaker 2: in my senior year in college when I was becoming 198 00:13:54,360 --> 00:13:59,440 Speaker 2: an individual right individuating and had to figure it out 199 00:13:59,480 --> 00:14:03,280 Speaker 2: more on my own and not identify with the group 200 00:14:03,400 --> 00:14:08,800 Speaker 2: so strongly. And that was hard. Not that anybody cut 201 00:14:08,840 --> 00:14:11,000 Speaker 2: me off, but I felt cut off because I wasn't 202 00:14:11,080 --> 00:14:15,760 Speaker 2: sure anymore. In these groups, it's important that we all 203 00:14:15,760 --> 00:14:19,400 Speaker 2: believe the same thing. I realized I could sort of 204 00:14:19,440 --> 00:14:24,240 Speaker 2: lose everything I had built, and it got complicated because 205 00:14:24,280 --> 00:14:27,680 Speaker 2: you start to kind of tell people like, yeah, I'm 206 00:14:27,720 --> 00:14:30,920 Speaker 2: just not sure. I'm not sure what I believe right now, 207 00:14:30,960 --> 00:14:34,800 Speaker 2: and it's really hard. And a lot of my friends 208 00:14:34,840 --> 00:14:40,080 Speaker 2: were supportive and wonderful about that, but I also certainly 209 00:14:40,120 --> 00:14:45,520 Speaker 2: got some like, you know, i'll pray for you maybe 210 00:14:45,520 --> 00:14:48,520 Speaker 2: in ways that didn't feel so great. It felt very 211 00:14:48,600 --> 00:14:55,440 Speaker 2: much like sometimes I was I guess judged. It was 212 00:14:55,480 --> 00:14:58,480 Speaker 2: basically like, you need to come back to this belief 213 00:14:58,720 --> 00:15:02,280 Speaker 2: and we'll pray and hope that you'll come back instead 214 00:15:02,320 --> 00:15:05,280 Speaker 2: of your own your own journey, and you'll get there 215 00:15:05,560 --> 00:15:07,760 Speaker 2: wherever you're supposed to be. God is big enough for this. 216 00:15:08,720 --> 00:15:10,840 Speaker 2: I'm sure I heard some of that, but I definitely 217 00:15:10,840 --> 00:15:14,240 Speaker 2: heard some. You know, there's something wrong with you, is 218 00:15:14,280 --> 00:15:17,840 Speaker 2: what it felt like. It felt very much like, we'll 219 00:15:17,840 --> 00:15:20,360 Speaker 2: pray for you to come back to your exact same 220 00:15:20,440 --> 00:15:26,720 Speaker 2: faith that sort of fits you into this mold. It 221 00:15:26,800 --> 00:15:32,680 Speaker 2: was not always embraced. It was not always like, oh yeah, 222 00:15:32,720 --> 00:15:37,800 Speaker 2: this is a great growth opportunity. So I go back 223 00:15:37,880 --> 00:15:41,600 Speaker 2: out to the camp in Colorado with all of these doubts, 224 00:15:41,840 --> 00:15:44,440 Speaker 2: and that is a little bit of a problem, I'm thinking, 225 00:15:44,480 --> 00:15:47,320 Speaker 2: because you know, I led all this ministry and that 226 00:15:47,400 --> 00:15:50,480 Speaker 2: was sort of my specialty in the company. But I 227 00:15:50,520 --> 00:15:53,160 Speaker 2: remember thinking, you know, I really want to be out 228 00:15:53,200 --> 00:15:56,040 Speaker 2: there and be with everybody and do that job, but 229 00:15:56,120 --> 00:15:58,000 Speaker 2: I'm going to have to be honest with them. So 230 00:15:58,720 --> 00:16:02,040 Speaker 2: I had a discussion with owner of the company, and 231 00:16:02,080 --> 00:16:05,840 Speaker 2: she was great, She understood, and she just said, will 232 00:16:05,920 --> 00:16:08,960 Speaker 2: have you just lead the trips and that'll be fine. 233 00:16:09,000 --> 00:16:12,560 Speaker 2: Somebody else can lead to ministry. So I was present 234 00:16:12,640 --> 00:16:16,440 Speaker 2: for the ministry, but I didn't have to kind of 235 00:16:16,520 --> 00:16:20,680 Speaker 2: teach something I wasn't sure about at all, which was 236 00:16:20,720 --> 00:16:25,800 Speaker 2: a good thing. This crisis of faith really lasted for 237 00:16:25,840 --> 00:16:29,920 Speaker 2: a while. It was over a year where I felt 238 00:16:31,080 --> 00:16:35,960 Speaker 2: really confused about what I believe. I had often previously 239 00:16:36,040 --> 00:16:39,280 Speaker 2: felt the presence of God, and I just wasn't feeling 240 00:16:39,320 --> 00:16:42,760 Speaker 2: that anymore. I thought I was going to do ministry. 241 00:16:43,560 --> 00:16:50,440 Speaker 2: Now what am I going to do? So I head 242 00:16:50,480 --> 00:16:52,880 Speaker 2: back out to Nozark with all of these doubts for 243 00:16:53,120 --> 00:16:56,160 Speaker 2: my final summer and it's one of the best summers. 244 00:16:56,520 --> 00:16:58,440 Speaker 2: Towards the end of the summer, started dating a guy 245 00:16:58,520 --> 00:17:03,160 Speaker 2: out there. His name was Lee, and I'm just having 246 00:17:03,160 --> 00:17:05,320 Speaker 2: a great time. Even though I'm not sure what's coming 247 00:17:05,359 --> 00:17:08,880 Speaker 2: in the future. I'm really savoring this last time at 248 00:17:08,920 --> 00:17:12,840 Speaker 2: Noah's Ark. And when the season ended, the Noazark river 249 00:17:12,920 --> 00:17:16,440 Speaker 2: Runners had an opportunity to do an epic eighteen day 250 00:17:16,480 --> 00:17:23,520 Speaker 2: trip down the Green Canyon, rafting amazing, beautiful, huge rapids, 251 00:17:23,560 --> 00:17:29,800 Speaker 2: you know, gorgeous scenery. Trip of a lifetime. People will 252 00:17:29,840 --> 00:17:32,080 Speaker 2: sign up for Green Canyon trips and get these permits 253 00:17:32,160 --> 00:17:34,679 Speaker 2: to be on the trip, like years in advance. We 254 00:17:34,720 --> 00:17:37,560 Speaker 2: put ourselves in to fill in where a group couldn't 255 00:17:37,560 --> 00:17:40,320 Speaker 2: come at the last minute, and we were just waiting 256 00:17:40,440 --> 00:17:42,760 Speaker 2: for our slot. So I think we had like two 257 00:17:42,840 --> 00:17:46,720 Speaker 2: weeks notice when we got our actual dates and that 258 00:17:46,800 --> 00:17:48,959 Speaker 2: we were going to do this, So then we had 259 00:17:49,000 --> 00:17:56,800 Speaker 2: to really put it in gear and get ready. We 260 00:17:57,119 --> 00:17:59,680 Speaker 2: packed everything up in multiple cars and we were all 261 00:17:59,680 --> 00:18:02,960 Speaker 2: going out there. There was I think sixteen of us total, 262 00:18:03,400 --> 00:18:06,720 Speaker 2: primarily coach gendents from people right out of college. We 263 00:18:06,880 --> 00:18:10,280 Speaker 2: road tripped. I remember going through the Four Corners where 264 00:18:10,320 --> 00:18:11,960 Speaker 2: you can put one foot in one state on one 265 00:18:12,000 --> 00:18:15,800 Speaker 2: foot and another state. That was fun. And you have 266 00:18:15,840 --> 00:18:18,960 Speaker 2: a specific like day you can enter your river because 267 00:18:19,000 --> 00:18:22,159 Speaker 2: the permit is very specific. So you get there and 268 00:18:22,200 --> 00:18:24,440 Speaker 2: you sort of mobilize and then you're waiting for your 269 00:18:24,480 --> 00:18:26,800 Speaker 2: time and you're watching other groups get on the river 270 00:18:27,240 --> 00:18:32,040 Speaker 2: ahead of you with enormous amounts of beer. It's our group, 271 00:18:32,320 --> 00:18:36,520 Speaker 2: not a lot of beer. Other groups like we would 272 00:18:36,560 --> 00:18:39,359 Speaker 2: count up like you know, okay, they have enough beer 273 00:18:39,400 --> 00:18:44,800 Speaker 2: for twelve beers a day per person. Hilarious. So the 274 00:18:44,840 --> 00:18:47,000 Speaker 2: other big thing was people would like raft the Grand 275 00:18:47,000 --> 00:18:51,880 Speaker 2: Canyon naked. Again, not our group at all, but definitely 276 00:18:52,200 --> 00:18:55,240 Speaker 2: saw some you know groups naked rafting. That was funny. 277 00:18:56,160 --> 00:18:59,560 Speaker 2: Our rafts are smaller than the typical Grand Canyon raft 278 00:19:00,040 --> 00:19:02,919 Speaker 2: because they are like, I think maybe eighteen foot rafts 279 00:19:03,000 --> 00:19:06,119 Speaker 2: or something like that. We took the biggest ones that 280 00:19:06,200 --> 00:19:08,800 Speaker 2: knows arcad and I think a typical Grand Canyon raft 281 00:19:08,880 --> 00:19:12,119 Speaker 2: is bigger. You start out not very much in the canyon, 282 00:19:12,160 --> 00:19:16,680 Speaker 2: and you increasingly go deeper and deeper. The scenes get 283 00:19:16,840 --> 00:19:22,960 Speaker 2: more and more beautiful. It's absolutely breathtaking. The rock cliffs 284 00:19:23,000 --> 00:19:28,080 Speaker 2: are incredibly high and sheer. I mean, I'd already spent 285 00:19:28,119 --> 00:19:32,280 Speaker 2: my summer seeing amazing views, right, beautiful, beautiful things. But 286 00:19:32,400 --> 00:19:35,119 Speaker 2: the Green Canyon was really different from the views I 287 00:19:35,160 --> 00:19:41,399 Speaker 2: had gotten used to in Colorado. Really majestic, so deep, 288 00:19:42,240 --> 00:19:46,000 Speaker 2: so gorgeous. You know you're in the canyon, so it's 289 00:19:46,040 --> 00:19:50,480 Speaker 2: like throwing shadows differently in a way, I enjoyed the 290 00:19:50,560 --> 00:19:55,080 Speaker 2: serene times on the river. If it wasn't your turn 291 00:19:55,119 --> 00:19:57,520 Speaker 2: to row, you could sit at the back of the 292 00:19:57,560 --> 00:20:01,960 Speaker 2: boat and enjoy the scenery and read your interesting book 293 00:20:02,040 --> 00:20:06,320 Speaker 2: you were reading, and that was awesome. We would go 294 00:20:06,400 --> 00:20:08,320 Speaker 2: through smaller rapids and we would all go stand at 295 00:20:08,359 --> 00:20:09,919 Speaker 2: the back of the boat if you weren't rowing, and like, 296 00:20:10,040 --> 00:20:11,800 Speaker 2: hold our book up in the air so it wouldn't 297 00:20:11,840 --> 00:20:18,720 Speaker 2: get wet and then get back to chilling out. But yeah, 298 00:20:18,720 --> 00:20:20,919 Speaker 2: it was. It was gorgeous, and there was usually like 299 00:20:21,080 --> 00:20:23,320 Speaker 2: maybe just three of us in a boat at a time, 300 00:20:23,480 --> 00:20:26,879 Speaker 2: so you were getting to know different people and just 301 00:20:27,000 --> 00:20:29,439 Speaker 2: having a great time together. And the big rapids are 302 00:20:29,440 --> 00:20:35,560 Speaker 2: still coming. And the really cool thing that happened was 303 00:20:35,600 --> 00:20:41,720 Speaker 2: that I started feeling God's presence again and I knew 304 00:20:41,720 --> 00:20:44,600 Speaker 2: what I believed again, and it kind of came back 305 00:20:45,040 --> 00:20:50,080 Speaker 2: in the same way it left pretty quickly. And it 306 00:20:50,160 --> 00:20:55,880 Speaker 2: was really all about the natural wonder. It was sort 307 00:20:55,920 --> 00:20:59,439 Speaker 2: of like, how could there not be a good God 308 00:21:00,640 --> 00:21:04,560 Speaker 2: with seeing all this, you know, being immersed in this 309 00:21:04,720 --> 00:21:11,520 Speaker 2: amazing natural scene. I think on the eighth day of 310 00:21:11,640 --> 00:21:16,200 Speaker 2: this eighteen day trip, we got to a little beach. 311 00:21:16,240 --> 00:21:17,879 Speaker 2: It was a little bit smaller than some of the 312 00:21:17,880 --> 00:21:21,240 Speaker 2: other beach we've been to. It was just upstream from 313 00:21:21,359 --> 00:21:24,800 Speaker 2: Zora Astor Canyon, about two miles above the Grand Canyon's 314 00:21:24,880 --> 00:21:31,120 Speaker 2: famous Nantum Ranch. We're right beside this enormous cliff and 315 00:21:31,160 --> 00:21:36,160 Speaker 2: we're setting up camp and had our normal campfire and 316 00:21:36,240 --> 00:21:39,000 Speaker 2: dinner together and all that. And I've always been kind 317 00:21:39,000 --> 00:21:42,359 Speaker 2: of a night out so I usually stayed up later 318 00:21:42,560 --> 00:21:52,520 Speaker 2: the most. The nights there were just really lovely. The 319 00:21:52,520 --> 00:21:56,800 Speaker 2: moonlight is gorgeous on the water, and you always had 320 00:21:57,000 --> 00:22:01,159 Speaker 2: the sound of the river in the background. It's just 321 00:22:01,240 --> 00:22:05,720 Speaker 2: pretty incredible. My two friends I was sharing a tent 322 00:22:05,840 --> 00:22:09,280 Speaker 2: with had left me a space in between them, and 323 00:22:09,480 --> 00:22:12,359 Speaker 2: I decided to put my head at their feet because 324 00:22:12,400 --> 00:22:14,560 Speaker 2: I didn't want to shine the flashlight in their eyes 325 00:22:14,640 --> 00:22:18,080 Speaker 2: when they were sleeping, and as is typical for me, 326 00:22:18,240 --> 00:22:20,960 Speaker 2: I read until I dropped the book and fell asleep, 327 00:22:22,840 --> 00:22:30,439 Speaker 2: and then woke up to chaos. I woke up to 328 00:22:30,480 --> 00:22:34,600 Speaker 2: myself screaming, and what I was screaming was I can't 329 00:22:34,640 --> 00:22:39,960 Speaker 2: move my legs. Overnight a major storm had come through. 330 00:22:41,440 --> 00:22:44,720 Speaker 2: Up up high on the top of the canyon walls 331 00:22:44,800 --> 00:22:46,960 Speaker 2: at the rim, there was I think a foot of 332 00:22:46,960 --> 00:22:50,439 Speaker 2: snow had fallen, and down where we were deep in 333 00:22:50,480 --> 00:22:54,680 Speaker 2: the canyon. It was a heavy rain. So there was 334 00:22:54,840 --> 00:22:59,879 Speaker 2: the sound of the storm, of the rain and the wind, 335 00:23:00,000 --> 00:23:05,840 Speaker 2: and these rocks that had been dysloidged falling and hitting 336 00:23:05,880 --> 00:23:11,600 Speaker 2: our beach, and the sound of all the people riding 337 00:23:11,640 --> 00:23:15,680 Speaker 2: around and trying to figure out what's happening and trying 338 00:23:15,720 --> 00:23:20,280 Speaker 2: to be safe. And there was also the sound of screaming, 339 00:23:21,359 --> 00:23:26,080 Speaker 2: and that was me. I got hit by a rock 340 00:23:26,160 --> 00:23:31,720 Speaker 2: that must have fallen from a couple hundred feet. It 341 00:23:31,760 --> 00:23:35,040 Speaker 2: wasn't a huge rock, but it had fallen for a 342 00:23:35,080 --> 00:23:37,640 Speaker 2: long way, so it must have had a lot of velocity, 343 00:23:38,240 --> 00:23:40,720 Speaker 2: and when it hit me it did a lot of damage. 344 00:23:42,000 --> 00:23:46,400 Speaker 2: I had a crushed pelvis injury. Fortunately, I was sleeping 345 00:23:46,400 --> 00:23:50,640 Speaker 2: on my stomach and the rock hit me in the butt. 346 00:23:51,160 --> 00:23:52,840 Speaker 2: The butt is the best place to get hit because 347 00:23:52,840 --> 00:23:55,560 Speaker 2: I have patting there, and you know, if it had 348 00:23:55,600 --> 00:23:58,920 Speaker 2: been higher, it would have hit my spine. I could 349 00:23:58,960 --> 00:24:02,080 Speaker 2: have easily been paralleled. If it had hit my head, 350 00:24:02,760 --> 00:24:05,600 Speaker 2: I could have been killed. Beginning, hitting the bot was 351 00:24:05,680 --> 00:24:08,520 Speaker 2: by far the best outcome, but still it was a 352 00:24:08,720 --> 00:24:13,359 Speaker 2: very serious injury of having a crushed pelvis with massive 353 00:24:13,400 --> 00:24:28,000 Speaker 2: blood loss. There had been this rock slide and there 354 00:24:28,119 --> 00:24:30,119 Speaker 2: was a maybe seven or eight inch wide hole in 355 00:24:30,160 --> 00:24:34,800 Speaker 2: the tent, and what we had come to realize is 356 00:24:35,560 --> 00:24:39,480 Speaker 2: that a rock about that size must have fallen and 357 00:24:39,600 --> 00:24:44,480 Speaker 2: hit me. They scoured the scene afterwards and could never 358 00:24:44,600 --> 00:24:49,560 Speaker 2: find the rock. Our beach was just littered with rocks, 359 00:24:50,680 --> 00:24:53,040 Speaker 2: and it was kind of amazing that only four people 360 00:24:53,040 --> 00:24:56,760 Speaker 2: got hit, but I think everybody heard the commotion and 361 00:24:56,840 --> 00:24:59,480 Speaker 2: got up and got moving and that got them out 362 00:24:59,480 --> 00:25:04,760 Speaker 2: of arms. After I was hit, I couldn't move. To 363 00:25:04,840 --> 00:25:07,680 Speaker 2: my horror, I realized I couldn't move the lower part 364 00:25:07,840 --> 00:25:11,280 Speaker 2: of my body at all. So I had to rely 365 00:25:11,560 --> 00:25:15,560 Speaker 2: on my boyfriend Lee, who was the EMT, to get 366 00:25:15,600 --> 00:25:18,119 Speaker 2: me onto this table that they used as a backboard 367 00:25:18,800 --> 00:25:23,320 Speaker 2: to put my body weight onto my injuries on my 368 00:25:23,640 --> 00:25:28,120 Speaker 2: butt and hope to stop the bleeding from the pressure 369 00:25:28,160 --> 00:25:33,720 Speaker 2: of my body. It was kind of a bory scene. 370 00:25:33,880 --> 00:25:36,119 Speaker 2: It was night in October, so I was in like 371 00:25:36,160 --> 00:25:38,800 Speaker 2: fleecepans and a flee shirt, sleeping and in a big 372 00:25:38,840 --> 00:25:42,439 Speaker 2: sleeping bag. And you know, I was told after the 373 00:25:42,440 --> 00:25:46,800 Speaker 2: fact that the sleeping bag was just completely saturated with blood. 374 00:25:47,680 --> 00:25:51,000 Speaker 2: I was bleeding to death. I was in a lot 375 00:25:51,040 --> 00:25:54,400 Speaker 2: of pain. But I think in those situations, your body 376 00:25:54,480 --> 00:25:58,440 Speaker 2: produces huge amounts of adrenaline and that kind of helps 377 00:25:58,520 --> 00:26:01,920 Speaker 2: you through that situation. All of us had been trained. 378 00:26:02,440 --> 00:26:07,520 Speaker 2: It really is the whole group's collective knowledge of what 379 00:26:07,640 --> 00:26:11,080 Speaker 2: to do in a crisis situation and how to help somebody. 380 00:26:11,840 --> 00:26:17,040 Speaker 2: That saved my life. Certainly, they got me stabilized on 381 00:26:17,080 --> 00:26:22,080 Speaker 2: a table and they were able able to get you know, 382 00:26:22,119 --> 00:26:24,760 Speaker 2: carry me to a raft to begin to get me 383 00:26:24,800 --> 00:26:27,359 Speaker 2: out of there. But all the while they're having to 384 00:26:27,400 --> 00:26:32,480 Speaker 2: be hypervigilant about what's going on. It's still raining, rocks 385 00:26:32,480 --> 00:26:37,440 Speaker 2: are still falling. I have external bleeding. I have massive 386 00:26:37,480 --> 00:26:43,160 Speaker 2: internal bleeding. I'm losing a lot of blood. It's very dangerous. 387 00:26:45,000 --> 00:26:48,159 Speaker 2: So you know, they've got me onto this raft, on 388 00:26:48,200 --> 00:26:53,720 Speaker 2: this table, and they've put people on who are really 389 00:26:53,760 --> 00:26:57,080 Speaker 2: strong raft guides to row us really fast to get 390 00:26:57,119 --> 00:27:01,240 Speaker 2: me to help. And all the white rocks are still 391 00:27:01,280 --> 00:27:04,520 Speaker 2: falling into the river, and they're falling ahead of where 392 00:27:04,560 --> 00:27:07,880 Speaker 2: we're going. They're falling behind where we've been in the river. 393 00:27:08,560 --> 00:27:13,080 Speaker 2: So still a very dangerous scene. And I remember it like, Lee, 394 00:27:13,119 --> 00:27:16,040 Speaker 2: could you put my hood up over where it's not 395 00:27:16,160 --> 00:27:18,000 Speaker 2: I'm not getting ringed on? And then he would do that, 396 00:27:18,560 --> 00:27:21,600 Speaker 2: and then I would feel like I couldn't breathe, so 397 00:27:21,640 --> 00:27:23,479 Speaker 2: I'd be like, okay, okay, I can't breathe. Can you 398 00:27:23,520 --> 00:27:25,679 Speaker 2: just put my hood back? And I think I think 399 00:27:25,760 --> 00:27:27,560 Speaker 2: we kind of spent a lot of the raft ride 400 00:27:27,560 --> 00:27:30,960 Speaker 2: doing that. Liked, could you put the hood over my face? 401 00:27:31,000 --> 00:27:37,719 Speaker 2: Could you put it back? Thankfully? And pretty amazingly, we 402 00:27:37,720 --> 00:27:43,000 Speaker 2: were just three miles above the only ranger station we 403 00:27:43,040 --> 00:27:46,399 Speaker 2: would pass on this river trip, and it was the 404 00:27:46,520 --> 00:27:49,199 Speaker 2: ranger station at the end of the Bright Angel trail 405 00:27:49,600 --> 00:27:52,600 Speaker 2: down on the river. You know, if we had been 406 00:27:52,760 --> 00:27:55,639 Speaker 2: below that ranger station, I don't think I would have 407 00:27:55,680 --> 00:27:58,920 Speaker 2: come out of the canyon alive. And by the way, 408 00:27:59,040 --> 00:28:02,200 Speaker 2: like they've strap me to the raft. You never want 409 00:28:02,200 --> 00:28:04,080 Speaker 2: to be strapped to a raft in a river, right, 410 00:28:04,160 --> 00:28:07,160 Speaker 2: because if something happens and the raft goes over, you're 411 00:28:07,160 --> 00:28:10,439 Speaker 2: gonna drown, right. You can't get out. So that's not 412 00:28:10,480 --> 00:28:12,800 Speaker 2: a great situation. But that's all they could do. They 413 00:28:12,840 --> 00:28:15,280 Speaker 2: had to do that. I think we went through a 414 00:28:15,320 --> 00:28:20,160 Speaker 2: couple of rabbits like that, and you know, it's still raining, 415 00:28:20,800 --> 00:28:26,040 Speaker 2: rocks are still falling, water levels up. They're scared for 416 00:28:26,200 --> 00:28:32,200 Speaker 2: my life. Imagine being that guide who's rafting the river's 417 00:28:32,280 --> 00:28:37,040 Speaker 2: rowing that boat with me in it so injured. It 418 00:28:37,080 --> 00:28:41,080 Speaker 2: was a bad scene. I remember we're rafting up. I 419 00:28:41,160 --> 00:28:45,600 Speaker 2: remember seeing the ranger standing right by the river waiting 420 00:28:45,880 --> 00:28:50,920 Speaker 2: with these real anticipatory kind of body stances. They started 421 00:28:50,920 --> 00:28:54,200 Speaker 2: to take me off, and they were four or so 422 00:28:54,400 --> 00:28:58,160 Speaker 2: of them were carrying my whatever I was on table 423 00:28:58,240 --> 00:29:03,120 Speaker 2: or backboard. I remember saying over and over like, hey, 424 00:29:03,600 --> 00:29:05,600 Speaker 2: I'm going to fall off the right side, can you 425 00:29:05,640 --> 00:29:10,520 Speaker 2: straighten me up? And they kept on saying, honey, we 426 00:29:10,520 --> 00:29:13,920 Speaker 2: were holding you straight. You're not going to fall, you know. 427 00:29:14,040 --> 00:29:15,800 Speaker 2: And it was just because I was so broken it 428 00:29:15,840 --> 00:29:19,960 Speaker 2: felt like I was going to fall. They took me 429 00:29:20,480 --> 00:29:26,280 Speaker 2: straight to the ranger Patty Thompson, right to her bed. 430 00:29:26,880 --> 00:29:30,560 Speaker 2: They put me in her bed, so God bless her. 431 00:29:30,640 --> 00:29:34,960 Speaker 2: She you know, gave me her bed covered in blood. 432 00:29:35,320 --> 00:29:38,040 Speaker 2: The pain is starting to kick in more. At this point, 433 00:29:38,280 --> 00:29:41,000 Speaker 2: she was what I think it's called an EMTI, and 434 00:29:41,000 --> 00:29:44,080 Speaker 2: that means they can do an IV. So she got 435 00:29:44,080 --> 00:29:45,960 Speaker 2: me settled in her bed, She gave me an IV, 436 00:29:46,360 --> 00:29:50,480 Speaker 2: she gave me fluids. They definitely knew this is bad. 437 00:29:50,880 --> 00:29:55,200 Speaker 2: This girl could die. My experience of Patty was she 438 00:29:55,320 --> 00:29:58,080 Speaker 2: was just the best, right She was my lifeline. She 439 00:29:58,320 --> 00:30:04,320 Speaker 2: was calm and and wonderful. My friend said she would 440 00:30:04,400 --> 00:30:07,120 Speaker 2: walk out of the room I was in her bedroom, 441 00:30:07,840 --> 00:30:11,880 Speaker 2: go to the phone, call the helicopter pilot who happened 442 00:30:11,920 --> 00:30:15,720 Speaker 2: to be her significant other in life, and say you've 443 00:30:15,760 --> 00:30:17,640 Speaker 2: got to get down here. This girl is going to 444 00:30:17,760 --> 00:30:22,400 Speaker 2: die on me. And cuss him out. She was asking 445 00:30:22,480 --> 00:30:25,080 Speaker 2: him to go out in weather that he shouldn't be 446 00:30:25,120 --> 00:30:28,280 Speaker 2: flying in because the weather had not broken full yet 447 00:30:28,320 --> 00:30:31,320 Speaker 2: and it really wasn't safe for him to get down 448 00:30:31,400 --> 00:30:42,920 Speaker 2: into the canyon in a helicopter. Yet. I think it 449 00:30:42,960 --> 00:30:46,800 Speaker 2: was six to eight hours before anybody could get me 450 00:30:46,840 --> 00:30:51,080 Speaker 2: out of there, so I was in Patty's bed. I'm 451 00:30:51,120 --> 00:30:54,960 Speaker 2: sure for six hours I easily could have bled to death. 452 00:30:57,960 --> 00:31:02,640 Speaker 2: I lost very close to fifty percent of my blood volume. 453 00:31:04,040 --> 00:31:07,000 Speaker 2: At the end of that six hours, they were getting 454 00:31:07,520 --> 00:31:10,160 Speaker 2: very concerned that I was going to bleed out right 455 00:31:10,200 --> 00:31:14,440 Speaker 2: there and die, and they started to put on me 456 00:31:15,160 --> 00:31:19,479 Speaker 2: this life saving treatment, and I think they're called like 457 00:31:19,640 --> 00:31:23,760 Speaker 2: masked pants or massed trousers, something like that, where they 458 00:31:23,880 --> 00:31:27,400 Speaker 2: pull these things up on your legs that will squeeze 459 00:31:27,440 --> 00:31:30,880 Speaker 2: your legs so much so that the blood goes to 460 00:31:30,960 --> 00:31:34,400 Speaker 2: your core of your body so that you had more 461 00:31:34,440 --> 00:31:37,520 Speaker 2: blood up at your heart so that you can live. 462 00:31:38,760 --> 00:31:41,480 Speaker 2: And it's a life saving thing that they do. But 463 00:31:41,600 --> 00:31:44,320 Speaker 2: the problem is that if they do it for long enough, 464 00:31:44,360 --> 00:31:46,520 Speaker 2: you're going to lose your legs because you don't have 465 00:31:47,120 --> 00:31:51,240 Speaker 2: blood in your legs anymore. So they had this horrible 466 00:31:51,960 --> 00:31:55,960 Speaker 2: decision to make you know, when do we inflate these 467 00:31:56,000 --> 00:32:01,479 Speaker 2: things to save her life. Then the weather begins to break, 468 00:32:02,720 --> 00:32:07,640 Speaker 2: thankfully and miraculously, you know, at the right time, and 469 00:32:07,720 --> 00:32:12,200 Speaker 2: Patty's significant other is able to come bring his helicopter 470 00:32:12,320 --> 00:32:15,760 Speaker 2: down into the canyon. And so then they put me 471 00:32:15,880 --> 00:32:19,840 Speaker 2: back on a backboard and moved me onto the helicopter 472 00:32:20,760 --> 00:32:23,000 Speaker 2: and Lee got in and rode out of the canyon 473 00:32:23,000 --> 00:32:25,480 Speaker 2: with me on the helicopter as kind of my support 474 00:32:25,560 --> 00:32:29,600 Speaker 2: person there. And I remember the helicopter ride. I remember 475 00:32:30,520 --> 00:32:34,280 Speaker 2: seeing us rise out of the canyon and go all 476 00:32:34,280 --> 00:32:43,560 Speaker 2: the way up. So I was airlifted out of the 477 00:32:43,600 --> 00:32:46,760 Speaker 2: canyon and taken to a medical clinic on the rim 478 00:32:46,880 --> 00:32:50,800 Speaker 2: of the canyon. There I found out I had was 479 00:32:50,800 --> 00:32:54,560 Speaker 2: called a crushed pelvis injuries. I had multiple pelvic fractures 480 00:32:54,800 --> 00:32:57,680 Speaker 2: and I had lost more than half of my blood volume. 481 00:32:58,800 --> 00:33:02,440 Speaker 2: And I was not the only injury. There were three 482 00:33:02,480 --> 00:33:05,400 Speaker 2: other people injured. There was like a broken arm and 483 00:33:05,800 --> 00:33:08,960 Speaker 2: crushed feet in like a really bad bone bruise, But 484 00:33:09,120 --> 00:33:12,920 Speaker 2: my injury was the worst. After I was out of 485 00:33:12,920 --> 00:33:16,280 Speaker 2: the canyon and in the hospital, they had to contact 486 00:33:16,320 --> 00:33:21,760 Speaker 2: my parents, who you know, again were not always excited 487 00:33:21,920 --> 00:33:26,000 Speaker 2: about all of the adventures that I was doing and 488 00:33:26,160 --> 00:33:29,840 Speaker 2: tell them that I had this very serious, life threatening injury. 489 00:33:31,240 --> 00:33:35,120 Speaker 2: And you know, they're in North Carolina. I'm in Arizona 490 00:33:35,160 --> 00:33:39,000 Speaker 2: and Flagstaff, Arizona in the hospital, they decide that my mom, 491 00:33:39,320 --> 00:33:43,120 Speaker 2: who was terrified a flying, had to take a commercial 492 00:33:43,240 --> 00:33:46,240 Speaker 2: flight out to join me in the hospital to take 493 00:33:46,280 --> 00:33:50,480 Speaker 2: care of me. When my mom arrived, the doctor told 494 00:33:50,560 --> 00:33:53,240 Speaker 2: her that there was such a long list of ways 495 00:33:53,240 --> 00:33:56,760 Speaker 2: I could die from my injuries, from loss of blood, 496 00:33:56,800 --> 00:33:59,880 Speaker 2: from various infections, that they may as well throw on 497 00:34:00,160 --> 00:34:02,840 Speaker 2: the list that the hospital could burn down tonight. It 498 00:34:02,920 --> 00:34:07,040 Speaker 2: was that serious. I ended up developing a lung infection 499 00:34:08,120 --> 00:34:11,640 Speaker 2: that postponed my surgery to put my bones back together 500 00:34:11,760 --> 00:34:16,279 Speaker 2: in my pelvist by several days. And it started out 501 00:34:16,360 --> 00:34:20,480 Speaker 2: as pneumonia in both lungs and it developed into adult 502 00:34:20,520 --> 00:34:25,520 Speaker 2: respiratory distress syndrome, which is quite serious and dangerous, and 503 00:34:25,560 --> 00:34:28,080 Speaker 2: so we had to fight that before they could do 504 00:34:28,200 --> 00:34:30,320 Speaker 2: the big surgery on me to put me back together. 505 00:34:32,800 --> 00:34:44,960 Speaker 2: That almost killed me. So the rock fall happened on 506 00:34:45,000 --> 00:34:47,360 Speaker 2: the ninth day of the trip, and then I was 507 00:34:47,400 --> 00:34:51,080 Speaker 2: airlifted out, but all the uninjured people went on with 508 00:34:51,160 --> 00:34:53,520 Speaker 2: their raft trip. You know, rafting was the only way 509 00:34:53,520 --> 00:34:56,439 Speaker 2: out of the canyon, and they had another nine days 510 00:34:56,480 --> 00:34:58,960 Speaker 2: to go on that trip, so they had no way 511 00:34:59,000 --> 00:35:00,960 Speaker 2: of knowing if I was a ive, are dead and 512 00:35:01,280 --> 00:35:03,480 Speaker 2: because we have no way to communicate from the bottom 513 00:35:03,520 --> 00:35:07,319 Speaker 2: of the Grand Canyon. So when their trip was ending, 514 00:35:07,360 --> 00:35:09,640 Speaker 2: I was toward the end of my hospital stay and 515 00:35:09,680 --> 00:35:12,799 Speaker 2: they came to visit me. On the way home. I 516 00:35:12,840 --> 00:35:16,239 Speaker 2: remember they all gathered around my hospital bed and we 517 00:35:16,280 --> 00:35:19,919 Speaker 2: sang the doxology praise God from whom all blessings flow. 518 00:35:22,120 --> 00:35:24,879 Speaker 2: It was so good to see them, you know, they 519 00:35:24,880 --> 00:35:33,760 Speaker 2: had saved my life. My story made the national news, 520 00:35:33,880 --> 00:35:37,520 Speaker 2: and so I got lots of mail. One day, they said, 521 00:35:37,520 --> 00:35:40,800 Speaker 2: I literally got all of the mail that was received 522 00:35:40,960 --> 00:35:45,960 Speaker 2: in the hospital that day. People just poured out their 523 00:35:46,000 --> 00:35:47,399 Speaker 2: support and their love with. 524 00:35:47,480 --> 00:35:52,680 Speaker 3: Cards and encouraging letters, and I know tons of people 525 00:35:52,760 --> 00:35:57,759 Speaker 3: were praying for me. The letters and the encouragement and 526 00:35:57,840 --> 00:36:02,680 Speaker 3: support that I received really got me. For a lot 527 00:36:02,680 --> 00:36:04,640 Speaker 3: of the time, I didn't get out of the bed 528 00:36:04,719 --> 00:36:09,359 Speaker 3: because I couldn't. Once they got my bones repaired, then 529 00:36:09,560 --> 00:36:11,280 Speaker 3: I started a little physical therapy. 530 00:36:11,480 --> 00:36:14,520 Speaker 2: But yeah, it was really hard, you know, that's really 531 00:36:14,600 --> 00:36:19,200 Speaker 2: hard work. It was painful. The letters and the support 532 00:36:19,320 --> 00:36:30,000 Speaker 2: and the love got me through. After three weeks in 533 00:36:30,080 --> 00:36:32,960 Speaker 2: the hospital at Arizona, they were ready to release me, 534 00:36:33,760 --> 00:36:35,880 Speaker 2: but I needed to get back to North Carolina and 535 00:36:35,960 --> 00:36:39,160 Speaker 2: I wasn't stable enough to fly commercially. I couldn't sit 536 00:36:39,480 --> 00:36:43,000 Speaker 2: that long. So a medical flight was arranged for me, 537 00:36:43,719 --> 00:36:45,960 Speaker 2: and my mom was going to fly on it with me. 538 00:36:46,040 --> 00:36:49,400 Speaker 2: So it's this tiny little plane, two pilots, two flight nurses, 539 00:36:49,440 --> 00:36:54,120 Speaker 2: and me and my mom. Blessed her heart because that was, 540 00:36:54,800 --> 00:36:56,719 Speaker 2: you know, much worse than a big commercial plane to 541 00:36:56,760 --> 00:37:00,759 Speaker 2: fly homeline. We landed and went and say, I'm at 542 00:37:00,760 --> 00:37:04,360 Speaker 2: a small airport. They were getting me on a stretcher 543 00:37:04,520 --> 00:37:07,480 Speaker 2: out of this plane and taking me to the ambulance. 544 00:37:07,680 --> 00:37:10,359 Speaker 2: There was a huge crowd of family and friends who 545 00:37:10,400 --> 00:37:13,319 Speaker 2: had come to meet me. They all cheered and I 546 00:37:13,320 --> 00:37:15,120 Speaker 2: got to wave to them briefly as they took me 547 00:37:15,200 --> 00:37:17,719 Speaker 2: to the ambulance. But that was a really touching, a 548 00:37:17,800 --> 00:37:24,680 Speaker 2: touching moment. So I went home in a wheelchair and 549 00:37:24,800 --> 00:37:26,680 Speaker 2: was in a wheelchair for a month, and then I 550 00:37:26,719 --> 00:37:30,920 Speaker 2: was on crutches for about six more months and did 551 00:37:30,960 --> 00:37:33,920 Speaker 2: a lot of physical therapy. By the end of the 552 00:37:33,920 --> 00:37:36,920 Speaker 2: next summer, I was doing pretty well and back to normal. 553 00:37:45,160 --> 00:37:49,840 Speaker 2: During my recovery, people would say, Wow, God must have 554 00:37:49,880 --> 00:37:53,640 Speaker 2: big plans for you because you were saved from death. 555 00:37:53,800 --> 00:37:55,879 Speaker 2: I know that what they were saying was meant from 556 00:37:55,960 --> 00:37:59,680 Speaker 2: a kind perspective. They were trying to encourage me. But 557 00:38:00,120 --> 00:38:03,160 Speaker 2: I had to really think about that because it didn't 558 00:38:03,960 --> 00:38:12,799 Speaker 2: strike true that God caused my injury. Was that a 559 00:38:12,840 --> 00:38:16,640 Speaker 2: part of God's plant? And I just came to realize that, no, 560 00:38:17,880 --> 00:38:21,560 Speaker 2: I don't believe that. I believe that things just happened, 561 00:38:21,719 --> 00:38:27,960 Speaker 2: and it's our faith it gets us through. Looking back 562 00:38:28,000 --> 00:38:34,160 Speaker 2: on all of this, I see how important it was 563 00:38:34,480 --> 00:38:37,680 Speaker 2: to be stretched, you know, by my academic studies of 564 00:38:37,719 --> 00:38:44,240 Speaker 2: religion and by my having a big adventure out west, 565 00:38:45,320 --> 00:38:48,920 Speaker 2: and even through this injury that happened, I got a 566 00:38:49,000 --> 00:38:53,840 Speaker 2: much broader view of who God is. But at the 567 00:38:53,880 --> 00:38:57,640 Speaker 2: same time, it's almost like my faith was distilled down 568 00:38:57,920 --> 00:39:02,360 Speaker 2: to just the essentials. God's ad fast love, God's goodness. 569 00:39:02,960 --> 00:39:07,799 Speaker 2: But there's a lot of theological details that I might 570 00:39:08,560 --> 00:39:18,640 Speaker 2: struggle with still, And that's okay. It's kay to doubt. 571 00:39:18,800 --> 00:39:22,960 Speaker 2: You don't have to be scared about other faiths, about 572 00:39:23,080 --> 00:39:26,600 Speaker 2: other beliefs. We're all just trying to figure it out. 573 00:39:27,920 --> 00:39:31,080 Speaker 2: Can we just be open to what other people can 574 00:39:31,120 --> 00:39:35,480 Speaker 2: teach us? You know, maybe being open we're gonna find 575 00:39:35,520 --> 00:39:42,680 Speaker 2: something out that we never knew before. When I finished college, 576 00:39:42,719 --> 00:39:45,680 Speaker 2: I was still struggling on what am I going to 577 00:39:45,760 --> 00:39:47,680 Speaker 2: do because I thought I was going to do ministry 578 00:39:48,840 --> 00:39:53,319 Speaker 2: and I was still in this doubting time. But then 579 00:39:53,360 --> 00:39:58,400 Speaker 2: by the time I was recovering from my Grand Canyon accident, 580 00:39:59,440 --> 00:40:03,160 Speaker 2: I really lies that what I can do is therapy, 581 00:40:03,760 --> 00:40:10,360 Speaker 2: and that's sort of my ministry. I've been able to 582 00:40:10,560 --> 00:40:17,120 Speaker 2: use my experience of trauma to help other people with trauma. 583 00:40:18,080 --> 00:40:20,480 Speaker 2: I believe so strongly in the concept of grace that 584 00:40:21,160 --> 00:40:26,799 Speaker 2: we're given and in therapy, grace is empathy. It's the 585 00:40:26,840 --> 00:40:30,319 Speaker 2: psychological version, but I believe that they're really the same thing. 586 00:40:30,480 --> 00:40:36,400 Speaker 2: You know, that offering empathy to people in understanding is 587 00:40:36,560 --> 00:40:40,080 Speaker 2: offering them grace like I'm offered do in my faith. 588 00:40:42,440 --> 00:40:47,040 Speaker 2: I'm very thankful with this severe injury that I experienced 589 00:40:47,280 --> 00:40:50,239 Speaker 2: that I'm still able to do the things I love 590 00:40:50,320 --> 00:40:56,399 Speaker 2: to do, to do outdoor adventure. I'm able to do 591 00:40:56,880 --> 00:40:59,960 Speaker 2: the things I love to ski and to paddle board, 592 00:40:59,760 --> 00:41:04,520 Speaker 2: and to hike, and I'm able to share my love 593 00:41:04,560 --> 00:41:06,440 Speaker 2: of the outdoors with my family. 594 00:41:29,840 --> 00:41:32,200 Speaker 4: Welcome back. This is a Live Again joining me for 595 00:41:32,239 --> 00:41:35,120 Speaker 4: a conversation about today's story. Are my other Alive Again 596 00:41:35,200 --> 00:41:39,320 Speaker 4: story producers Lauren Vogelbaum and Brent Die And I'm your host, 597 00:41:39,520 --> 00:41:43,560 Speaker 4: Dan Bush. Brent, can you tell us a little bit 598 00:41:43,560 --> 00:41:45,759 Speaker 4: about how you found this story? What attracted you to 599 00:41:45,800 --> 00:41:46,440 Speaker 4: this story? 600 00:41:46,920 --> 00:41:51,480 Speaker 5: Yeah, recently as a friend of my wife's, and I 601 00:41:51,520 --> 00:41:53,319 Speaker 5: didn't know her story until my wife and I went 602 00:41:53,320 --> 00:41:55,160 Speaker 5: out to the Grand Canyon and she said, well, by 603 00:41:55,160 --> 00:41:58,640 Speaker 5: the way, my friend almost died here. And I said, well, 604 00:41:58,960 --> 00:42:01,000 Speaker 5: I'll be giving her a call. She wants to be 605 00:42:01,040 --> 00:42:01,520 Speaker 5: on the show. 606 00:42:01,840 --> 00:42:03,839 Speaker 4: I think the biggest thing for me here, I mean, 607 00:42:03,880 --> 00:42:07,120 Speaker 4: other than just the spectacle, which is what I call it, 608 00:42:07,160 --> 00:42:12,360 Speaker 4: but the graphic nature of the incident and everything that 609 00:42:12,400 --> 00:42:17,200 Speaker 4: she described about the ordeal of them having to sort 610 00:42:17,200 --> 00:42:20,080 Speaker 4: of prop her up and several times and put her 611 00:42:20,120 --> 00:42:24,080 Speaker 4: on a raft, so that and just there's there's so 612 00:42:24,160 --> 00:42:25,799 Speaker 4: much that she had to do and go through with 613 00:42:25,800 --> 00:42:27,920 Speaker 4: the help of so many people to get out of there. 614 00:42:27,960 --> 00:42:30,120 Speaker 4: It's it's kind of miraculous that she made it out 615 00:42:30,120 --> 00:42:36,000 Speaker 4: at all, and I just listening to that story. I 616 00:42:36,080 --> 00:42:37,960 Speaker 4: was one of the few stories where I just was like, 617 00:42:39,680 --> 00:42:42,600 Speaker 4: couldna was not listening to listen to it. I was 618 00:42:42,680 --> 00:42:45,120 Speaker 4: just cringing left and right, and I was sort of like, 619 00:42:45,800 --> 00:42:47,080 Speaker 4: I don't know, it just got in me in a 620 00:42:47,120 --> 00:42:51,239 Speaker 4: way that it was disturbed. It was disturbing, like I 621 00:42:51,280 --> 00:42:53,799 Speaker 4: can't imagine going through that. Do you know, is she 622 00:42:54,000 --> 00:42:56,400 Speaker 4: like walking normally now? Is she like she's totally normal? 623 00:42:56,760 --> 00:42:59,640 Speaker 5: She enjoys doing all of her hiking with her family 624 00:42:59,680 --> 00:43:01,680 Speaker 5: at some that she's been able to. Really she's really 625 00:43:01,719 --> 00:43:06,160 Speaker 5: proud of passing that love on to her kids. So yeah, 626 00:43:06,200 --> 00:43:09,640 Speaker 5: it's it's a real miracle. Way what she was I 627 00:43:09,760 --> 00:43:10,759 Speaker 5: accomplished from that. 628 00:43:11,600 --> 00:43:14,640 Speaker 4: Well, the the big just to jump right in. The 629 00:43:14,640 --> 00:43:17,200 Speaker 4: big takeaway from me was just she had been stretched, 630 00:43:17,200 --> 00:43:22,200 Speaker 4: as she said, the academics had challenged her her sort 631 00:43:22,239 --> 00:43:24,760 Speaker 4: of point of view, and then and then the outdoor 632 00:43:24,800 --> 00:43:30,480 Speaker 4: activities stretched her even more into a sort of seeing 633 00:43:31,080 --> 00:43:34,640 Speaker 4: maybe that God is bigger than what she thought, to 634 00:43:34,640 --> 00:43:36,960 Speaker 4: the point where when she's in recovery and she's surrounded 635 00:43:36,960 --> 00:43:39,279 Speaker 4: by her loved ones and friends and a lot of 636 00:43:39,320 --> 00:43:41,960 Speaker 4: them are saying God must have saved you for a reason, 637 00:43:42,000 --> 00:43:44,520 Speaker 4: and that didn't ring true to her and it didn't 638 00:43:44,560 --> 00:43:47,879 Speaker 4: resonate with her, and then instead it raised this sort 639 00:43:47,920 --> 00:43:50,200 Speaker 4: of more complicated question of like, well, okay, if God 640 00:43:50,719 --> 00:43:53,000 Speaker 4: saved me, then what was the rock slide part of 641 00:43:53,040 --> 00:43:57,279 Speaker 4: that too? Like did you know, yeah, how much how 642 00:43:57,320 --> 00:44:00,480 Speaker 4: much are God's fingers in on the experiences that I'm that, 643 00:44:00,520 --> 00:44:03,920 Speaker 4: I'm that I'm well, that I'm walking through in life? 644 00:44:04,160 --> 00:44:08,400 Speaker 4: But yeah, I don't know. Brenton, you have a pretty 645 00:44:08,400 --> 00:44:11,800 Speaker 4: firm faith and to love to hear your your understanding 646 00:44:11,840 --> 00:44:11,960 Speaker 4: of that. 647 00:44:12,400 --> 00:44:14,799 Speaker 5: What I love about her is her honesty through the 648 00:44:14,960 --> 00:44:17,719 Speaker 5: entire experience. You know that she was willing to go 649 00:44:17,840 --> 00:44:21,880 Speaker 5: to her community, which was her whole world at the time, 650 00:44:22,080 --> 00:44:25,640 Speaker 5: and not only was it her social group, but it 651 00:44:25,719 --> 00:44:28,120 Speaker 5: was her future. She had decided to pursue a career 652 00:44:28,120 --> 00:44:31,360 Speaker 5: in the ministry, and she was not sure what she believed, 653 00:44:31,400 --> 00:44:34,640 Speaker 5: and she was honest with herself and honest with the 654 00:44:34,680 --> 00:44:36,680 Speaker 5: camp and called them and said, I don't know if 655 00:44:36,719 --> 00:44:38,319 Speaker 5: you want me to come back out here because I'm 656 00:44:38,360 --> 00:44:41,760 Speaker 5: dealing with these questions. And I thought it was really 657 00:44:42,400 --> 00:44:44,200 Speaker 5: spoke well of the camp too, that they're like, we 658 00:44:44,239 --> 00:44:45,799 Speaker 5: still want you to come out but we just are 659 00:44:45,880 --> 00:44:48,440 Speaker 5: going to take you out of the ministry position. And 660 00:44:48,480 --> 00:44:50,800 Speaker 5: I like that she was coming back to her relationship 661 00:44:50,880 --> 00:44:55,160 Speaker 5: with God before the rock fall. So it wasn't as 662 00:44:55,160 --> 00:44:57,680 Speaker 5: if the rock hit her and brought her back to Christ. 663 00:44:58,840 --> 00:45:02,160 Speaker 5: She was rebuilt that connection just through the restorative power 664 00:45:02,200 --> 00:45:04,759 Speaker 5: of nature, you know, just the awe and one what 665 00:45:04,960 --> 00:45:05,520 Speaker 5: of nature? 666 00:45:05,840 --> 00:45:07,600 Speaker 6: What a place to have a crisis of faith, the 667 00:45:07,600 --> 00:45:10,240 Speaker 6: Grand Canyon. Are you kidding, like like, okay, yeah, sure, 668 00:45:10,360 --> 00:45:16,080 Speaker 6: that's beautiful. It's impossible not to feel awe and feel 669 00:45:16,160 --> 00:45:18,360 Speaker 6: like the universe is a lot bigger than you in 670 00:45:18,400 --> 00:45:19,239 Speaker 6: a place like that. 671 00:45:20,120 --> 00:45:22,000 Speaker 5: Well, I think what she might have been battling with 672 00:45:22,200 --> 00:45:24,719 Speaker 5: was she started in a mainline church. It was kind 673 00:45:24,719 --> 00:45:26,160 Speaker 5: of like your traditional and what you would think of 674 00:45:26,200 --> 00:45:29,320 Speaker 5: as like an early twentieth century Methodist church or a 675 00:45:29,360 --> 00:45:31,439 Speaker 5: Lutheran church. I grew up in that kind of church. 676 00:45:31,760 --> 00:45:37,160 Speaker 5: It wasn't such an emphasis on defining things. So clearly 677 00:45:37,280 --> 00:45:39,200 Speaker 5: there was a little more room for mystery and more 678 00:45:39,239 --> 00:45:41,440 Speaker 5: of the mainline experience, and she moved into more of 679 00:45:41,480 --> 00:45:45,839 Speaker 5: an evangelical experience in her college years. 680 00:45:47,320 --> 00:45:49,919 Speaker 4: The evangelical is just more dogmatic or more what. 681 00:45:49,920 --> 00:45:53,640 Speaker 5: Is Yeah, I wouldn't really want to use that term 682 00:45:53,840 --> 00:45:56,360 Speaker 5: because I don't think it's respectful to people who believe 683 00:45:56,360 --> 00:45:58,080 Speaker 5: that way. But I just think it's I think it's 684 00:45:58,200 --> 00:46:03,640 Speaker 5: more of a your interpreter of scripture is the correct interpretation. 685 00:46:04,000 --> 00:46:06,239 Speaker 5: And I understand the desire to want to share that 686 00:46:06,280 --> 00:46:08,000 Speaker 5: with people if you feel like you have the answer. 687 00:46:08,000 --> 00:46:11,239 Speaker 5: I understand the desire to want to share that. But 688 00:46:11,360 --> 00:46:13,759 Speaker 5: for me, I think it takes away some of the 689 00:46:13,800 --> 00:46:17,480 Speaker 5: wonder and mystery that is the joy of living, you know, 690 00:46:17,560 --> 00:46:20,880 Speaker 5: And I think that's what she was wrestling with. The 691 00:46:20,920 --> 00:46:23,040 Speaker 5: moment that really struck me in her story was when 692 00:46:23,200 --> 00:46:26,200 Speaker 5: she was at her camp and they did that like 693 00:46:26,320 --> 00:46:28,960 Speaker 5: seven day hike or whatever, and she comes over this 694 00:46:30,200 --> 00:46:34,879 Speaker 5: hill and sees this valley of wildflowers and realizes that 695 00:46:34,960 --> 00:46:38,879 Speaker 5: this beauty is here, whether a human eye ever sees it, 696 00:46:39,840 --> 00:46:45,160 Speaker 5: and for her that's an encapsulation that it's not transactional. 697 00:46:45,560 --> 00:46:49,239 Speaker 5: The beauty and goodness is there regardless. 698 00:46:49,920 --> 00:46:52,760 Speaker 6: I feel like she also talked about that in terms 699 00:46:52,960 --> 00:46:56,480 Speaker 6: of her interactions with all of the people during her 700 00:46:56,800 --> 00:46:59,520 Speaker 6: rescue and recovery as well. You know, like their goodness 701 00:46:59,760 --> 00:47:02,000 Speaker 6: was just there, it was just part of them. They 702 00:47:02,440 --> 00:47:05,160 Speaker 6: stepped up and helped her do whatever it was that 703 00:47:05,200 --> 00:47:07,680 Speaker 6: needed to get done in order to get her to 704 00:47:07,719 --> 00:47:10,319 Speaker 6: a place where should she she could receive medical care 705 00:47:10,360 --> 00:47:14,680 Speaker 6: and she could recover from from this weirdly horrific aid 706 00:47:14,760 --> 00:47:15,880 Speaker 6: inch roc accident. 707 00:47:17,000 --> 00:47:19,400 Speaker 4: Yeah. Well, I mean, if you imagine an eight inch 708 00:47:19,480 --> 00:47:20,240 Speaker 4: roc like a cannon. 709 00:47:20,520 --> 00:47:23,879 Speaker 6: Oh sure, yeah, fast enough, fast enough. Yeah. 710 00:47:25,040 --> 00:47:27,520 Speaker 4: I love how she eventually she seemed like this is 711 00:47:27,560 --> 00:47:33,480 Speaker 4: a This is also a story of liminality, like her 712 00:47:33,560 --> 00:47:37,239 Speaker 4: liminal state between two threst thresholds of her sort of 713 00:47:37,360 --> 00:47:42,000 Speaker 4: understanding and her identity. So she had to kind of 714 00:47:42,080 --> 00:47:45,120 Speaker 4: like there was a death of the previous identity of 715 00:47:45,160 --> 00:47:50,360 Speaker 4: her from the evangelical and from the you know, and 716 00:47:50,400 --> 00:47:53,040 Speaker 4: there was an expansion and there was a confusion. But 717 00:47:54,680 --> 00:47:56,880 Speaker 4: she eventually found a way to make peace with this questions, 718 00:47:56,880 --> 00:47:59,319 Speaker 4: and that's crossing the other threshold of sort of coming 719 00:47:59,320 --> 00:48:03,759 Speaker 4: to a new understand and finding herself in a new form, 720 00:48:04,400 --> 00:48:06,879 Speaker 4: not by finding all the answers, but by letting go 721 00:48:07,000 --> 00:48:09,680 Speaker 4: of the need to find them. She talks about how 722 00:48:09,719 --> 00:48:12,760 Speaker 4: her belief in God was distilled down to the essentials, 723 00:48:12,840 --> 00:48:15,720 Speaker 4: to what actually mattered to her, rather than some rigid 724 00:48:15,760 --> 00:48:20,400 Speaker 4: doctrine or some certainty. She found something that was more expansive, 725 00:48:20,400 --> 00:48:22,120 Speaker 4: and she was okay with the expansiveness of it. 726 00:48:22,239 --> 00:48:27,799 Speaker 5: I think that's one reason extremely conservative cultures don't want 727 00:48:27,840 --> 00:48:30,640 Speaker 5: their kids to go away to college, because they may 728 00:48:30,680 --> 00:48:33,080 Speaker 5: be exposed to ideas that are different than what are 729 00:48:33,120 --> 00:48:38,359 Speaker 5: being taught in the tribe. And Reesa needed to go 730 00:48:38,440 --> 00:48:40,719 Speaker 5: through that to have the spiritual growth that gave her 731 00:48:40,760 --> 00:48:46,560 Speaker 5: a stronger relationship with God. And I think we're all 732 00:48:46,600 --> 00:48:49,439 Speaker 5: on our own path. And I think that it's good 733 00:48:49,440 --> 00:48:52,719 Speaker 5: to have guidance from your pastor or your rabbi or 734 00:48:52,760 --> 00:48:55,520 Speaker 5: whoever is your spiritual leader, but you got to be 735 00:48:55,600 --> 00:48:57,400 Speaker 5: on that path on your own if it's going to 736 00:48:57,400 --> 00:49:00,000 Speaker 5: be an authentic path. And I think that's what Reesa's 737 00:49:00,080 --> 00:49:00,880 Speaker 5: stories about. 738 00:49:01,400 --> 00:49:04,319 Speaker 4: Yeah, it connects with these the themes that we have 739 00:49:04,400 --> 00:49:06,759 Speaker 4: in the show that like there's a recurring theme that like, 740 00:49:07,640 --> 00:49:10,600 Speaker 4: survival isn't always about crafting the perfect story where everything 741 00:49:10,600 --> 00:49:14,800 Speaker 4: makes sense, you know. Sometimes it's about embracing the mystery, 742 00:49:14,960 --> 00:49:19,520 Speaker 4: accepting that life is unpredictable, and understanding that meaning isn't 743 00:49:19,719 --> 00:49:23,600 Speaker 4: something just handed to us. You know, we are participants 744 00:49:23,640 --> 00:49:26,320 Speaker 4: in the story. So it's not just about like regaining 745 00:49:26,320 --> 00:49:29,279 Speaker 4: some certainty that was lost. It's about learning to learning 746 00:49:29,360 --> 00:49:31,920 Speaker 4: to live with uncertainty in a way that still allows 747 00:49:31,960 --> 00:49:36,120 Speaker 4: for what Because she says love, grace, and connection. Yeah, 748 00:49:36,160 --> 00:49:38,600 Speaker 4: it's the same thing that all of our stories people 749 00:49:38,640 --> 00:49:45,160 Speaker 4: who suffer these adversities or near death experiences. You know, 750 00:49:45,239 --> 00:49:48,440 Speaker 4: it's not just why they survived, but how to carry on, 751 00:49:49,920 --> 00:49:52,160 Speaker 4: you know, without needing all the answers. 752 00:49:52,440 --> 00:49:56,479 Speaker 6: Right, And I'm not a religious person, that that does 753 00:49:56,560 --> 00:50:00,360 Speaker 6: really strike a chord with me. The concept of personal 754 00:50:00,400 --> 00:50:05,000 Speaker 6: responsibility and the idea that we should all have free 755 00:50:05,000 --> 00:50:08,080 Speaker 6: will and we should exercise it, and if we're not 756 00:50:08,800 --> 00:50:11,200 Speaker 6: exercising it, then what does it mean anyway? You know? 757 00:50:11,800 --> 00:50:15,520 Speaker 6: Is is it meaningful if we don't come to a 758 00:50:15,560 --> 00:50:22,080 Speaker 6: personal concept of our relationship with religion or with the 759 00:50:22,200 --> 00:50:24,920 Speaker 6: universe in a larger sense, or even just with ourselves. 760 00:50:25,160 --> 00:50:29,200 Speaker 5: Part of her growth was realizing that she still had 761 00:50:29,200 --> 00:50:33,040 Speaker 5: a relationship with God. She's still very active in her church, 762 00:50:33,840 --> 00:50:36,480 Speaker 5: but ministry wasn't in the cards for her. 763 00:50:36,520 --> 00:50:37,440 Speaker 4: But she's able to. 764 00:50:37,400 --> 00:50:42,120 Speaker 5: Take her theology and her experience of trauma and use 765 00:50:42,160 --> 00:50:43,239 Speaker 5: that as a therapist. 766 00:50:43,480 --> 00:50:48,840 Speaker 4: Didn't she say something about grace and the same grace 767 00:50:48,880 --> 00:50:52,799 Speaker 4: that she feels that is extended to her in her 768 00:50:52,840 --> 00:50:56,600 Speaker 4: relationship with God. She feels like that's something that we 769 00:50:56,640 --> 00:50:59,560 Speaker 4: all must do with empathy. Yeah, I just thought it 770 00:50:59,560 --> 00:51:02,120 Speaker 4: was cool between the idea of grace and the idea 771 00:51:02,120 --> 00:51:04,000 Speaker 4: of empathy as being parallel. 772 00:51:04,280 --> 00:51:06,880 Speaker 5: Well, I think it goes to what she discovered in 773 00:51:06,920 --> 00:51:10,319 Speaker 5: her story was the universalness of these concepts. You know, 774 00:51:10,560 --> 00:51:13,720 Speaker 5: empathy is the same concept as grace. You know, whether 775 00:51:13,800 --> 00:51:18,080 Speaker 5: you're belong to church or not, most people are capable 776 00:51:18,120 --> 00:51:22,239 Speaker 5: of empathy, and most people are capable of receiving and 777 00:51:22,280 --> 00:51:22,960 Speaker 5: giving grace. 778 00:51:23,400 --> 00:51:29,400 Speaker 4: But empathy is the greatest weakness of Western civilization. You 779 00:51:29,400 --> 00:51:30,760 Speaker 4: didn't know that. 780 00:51:30,760 --> 00:51:32,480 Speaker 5: That's why you need to drive a cyber truck where 781 00:51:32,480 --> 00:51:33,600 Speaker 5: you're safe from empathy. 782 00:51:33,840 --> 00:51:35,600 Speaker 4: Yeah, that's right. 783 00:51:35,800 --> 00:51:36,799 Speaker 2: Oh, is that what it's for? 784 00:51:36,920 --> 00:51:39,800 Speaker 4: Okay, Yeah, you got to be safe from all the empathy. 785 00:51:42,480 --> 00:51:45,239 Speaker 7: Next week on the Live Again, when Robert was poisoned, 786 00:51:45,320 --> 00:51:48,399 Speaker 7: he had a profound and unexpected near death experience, one 787 00:51:48,400 --> 00:51:51,920 Speaker 7: that reshaped his entire understanding of karma, morality, and what 788 00:51:51,960 --> 00:51:53,720 Speaker 7: it truly means to live a good life. 789 00:51:54,600 --> 00:51:57,239 Speaker 8: Probably Kitchen Keema Wuls was I think the concisus at 790 00:51:57,280 --> 00:51:59,040 Speaker 8: the time. It was meant for me to just get 791 00:51:59,040 --> 00:52:02,640 Speaker 8: poisoned againstick knowing that you did a lot of things 792 00:52:02,640 --> 00:52:05,160 Speaker 8: that were not the right thing on purpose versus like 793 00:52:05,320 --> 00:52:08,319 Speaker 8: the value or the weight on that on I guess 794 00:52:08,360 --> 00:52:10,880 Speaker 8: your soul will call it. 795 00:52:10,880 --> 00:52:11,399 Speaker 4: It's a lot. 796 00:52:14,160 --> 00:52:17,880 Speaker 1: Our story producers are Dan Bush, Kate Sweeney, Brent die 797 00:52:18,120 --> 00:52:22,720 Speaker 1: Nicholas Dakoski, and Lauren Vogelbaum. Music by Ben Lovett, additional 798 00:52:22,800 --> 00:52:26,840 Speaker 1: music by Alexander Rodriguez. Our executive producers are Matthew Frederick 799 00:52:26,880 --> 00:52:30,080 Speaker 1: and Trevor Young. Special thanks to Alexander Williams for additional 800 00:52:30,120 --> 00:52:34,960 Speaker 1: production support. Our studio engineers are Rima Lkli and Noames Griffin. 801 00:52:35,200 --> 00:52:38,920 Speaker 1: Today's episode was edited by Mike w Anderson, mixing by 802 00:52:38,920 --> 00:52:42,640 Speaker 1: Ben Lovett and Alexander Rodriguez. I'm your host Dan Bush. 803 00:52:42,960 --> 00:52:45,720 Speaker 1: Special thanks to Reesa Bailey for sharing her story. 804 00:52:46,480 --> 00:52:47,920 Speaker 4: Alive Again is a production of I. 805 00:52:48,000 --> 00:52:51,760 Speaker 1: Art Radio and Psychopia Pictures. If you have a transformative 806 00:52:51,800 --> 00:52:54,560 Speaker 1: near death experience to share, we'd love to hear your story. 807 00:52:54,920 --> 00:52:59,760 Speaker 1: Please email us at Alive Again Project at gmail dot com. 808 00:53:00,080 --> 00:53:03,120 Speaker 4: That's a l I v E A g A I 809 00:53:03,360 --> 00:53:07,320 Speaker 4: N P R O j E c T at gmail 810 00:53:07,360 --> 00:53:29,080 Speaker 4: dot com.