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Speaker 1: Pushkin. Just a quick note here. You can listen to

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Speaker 1: all of the music mentioned in this episode on our playlist,

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Speaker 1: which you can find a link to in the show

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Speaker 1: notes for licensing reasons. Each time a song is referenced

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Speaker 1: in this episode, you'll hear this sound effect all right,

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Speaker 1: enjoy the episode. You know, when you're on stage live

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Speaker 1: and there's that whole crowd out there, there's a whole

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Speaker 1: other adrenaline we're vibing off of. We're playing with Dolly

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Speaker 1: fucking Parton at the Grammys. You got to be in

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Speaker 1: the moment, man, Linda Perry. If you don't immediately recognize

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Speaker 1: the name, you'll know her songs. That last one was

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Speaker 1: a huge hit in the nineteen nineties for Linda's group

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Speaker 1: Four Non Blondes. She's since become one of the most

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Speaker 1: sought after songwriters and one of the only women considered

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Speaker 1: a go to producer in the business. She's worked with

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Speaker 1: Alicia Keys, Gwen Stefani, Celine dion Adele, and she reinvented

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Speaker 1: the careers of Pink and Christina Aguilera. I met Linda

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Speaker 1: North Hollywood at the first hout she ever bought in

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Speaker 1: La She since transformed it into a beautiful recording studio.

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Speaker 1: It's one of the most inviting creative spaces I've ever

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Speaker 1: been in. When we met that day, I thought I'd

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Speaker 1: be talking to someone obsessed with writing and producing hits.

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Speaker 1: I couldn't have been more wrong. The level of songwriting

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Speaker 1: is so low right now. I mean, do you think

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Speaker 1: it's lower than it's been in the past. It's to

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Speaker 1: me the worst it's ever been because everything. When you

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Speaker 1: have Sony ATV and all these companies signing songwriters that

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Speaker 1: have absolutely that never actually wrote a whole entire song

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Speaker 1: by themselves, but they wrote a third of a top line,

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Speaker 1: there's just something not right about that. It turns out

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Speaker 1: Linda Perry, who's responsible for so many hits over the

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Speaker 1: past two decades, isn't interested in manufactured pop, but in

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Speaker 1: creating deep, impactful songs that will last. I'm Bruce Headlam

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Speaker 1: and this is broken record. So we're talking to you

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Speaker 1: today for many many reasons. One is that you were

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Speaker 1: nominated for Producer of the Year at the Grammys this year.

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Speaker 1: What amazed me was you hadn't been nominated before. Were

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Speaker 1: you surprised when you were nominated? Unfortunately, I expected it

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Speaker 1: because of the conditions of the world, because it's like,

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Speaker 1: why didn't I get nominated before? Like why this one?

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Speaker 1: And the fact that the last time that was And

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Speaker 1: I could get this wrong so you can fact check me,

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Speaker 1: but I believe the person who did get the last

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Speaker 1: nomination that was a female was Lauren Christy, but she

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Speaker 1: was part of a team that had two guys in it,

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Speaker 1: so it was the matrix got the nomination. She happened

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Speaker 1: to be in the matrix, so it's not that she

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Speaker 1: got it solely, but it was her and two other guys.

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Speaker 1: But the fact that the Grammys have been was it

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Speaker 1: sixty three years? Yeah, something like that that a woman

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Speaker 1: has never won is a bigger situation to me. Sod

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Speaker 1: and rarely been nominated. So people should be eligible and

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Speaker 1: represented because they're good, not because of who they are.

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Speaker 1: And that's just where I just want life to get to.

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Speaker 1: It's it's like, right now we're in a place like

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Speaker 1: are we really choosing the best people for the job,

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Speaker 1: or are we choosing them because we need this race

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Speaker 1: or gender or diversity. And That's where I'm waiting to

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Speaker 1: get out of because it's I want just people to

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Speaker 1: know that they're just chosen because they're great. I mean,

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Speaker 1: that's at issue, and that's the criticism a lot of

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Speaker 1: forms of affirmative action and all kinds of things. Do

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Speaker 1: you have to go through a period where necessarily something

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Speaker 1: like the Academy says, yes, we have to honor women

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Speaker 1: until you get to that business. That's what I'm trying

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Speaker 1: to say. It's like, I'm waiting for this period to

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Speaker 1: be over right now, right, so we can just we

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Speaker 1: all got the information, the cats out of the bag,

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Speaker 1: the bad guys have been pointed out at now let's

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Speaker 1: move forward, yeah, to the real stuff. And I don't

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Speaker 1: want to ever be honored for something that I don't

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Speaker 1: deserve only because I wear cool hats and I'm a chick,

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Speaker 1: you know. I want to earn and know that I

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Speaker 1: got chosen because I am great at what I do,

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Speaker 1: and I do believe that. But I don't ever want

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Speaker 1: it to be a question to everybody else. But you've

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Speaker 1: been great at what you do for a fairly long time. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and there weren't times in the past you thought what

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Speaker 1: do I have to do here? Yeah? You know, I

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Speaker 1: just don't operate that way. Like I've sold millions of records,

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Speaker 1: I've have awards. Do you see anything in the studio

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Speaker 1: that represents a plaque and an award? No, in your

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Speaker 1: won't find it anywhere. You won't find it in the bathroom.

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Speaker 1: You won't find it hidden in the closet, you won't

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Speaker 1: find it in the garage. It's just not who I am.

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Speaker 1: I don't base my beliefs on how people see me,

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Speaker 1: or by a trophy or a plaque or being honored.

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Speaker 1: I've never so it slips my mind. You know. My

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Speaker 1: intention is always to just be the best that I

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Speaker 1: possibly can. If my intention was ever I want to

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Speaker 1: be I want to win that, then I have a

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Speaker 1: personal problem with myself. One of the people who walked

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Speaker 1: through the door recently in this beautiful house turned studio

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Speaker 1: was Dolly Parton. And you hadn't done country music before.

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Speaker 1: I don't think did you have a love of country music?

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Speaker 1: Or my ego wanted to take over Nashville about twelve

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Speaker 1: years ago. Nashville was not having it, and they threw

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Speaker 1: me out the door. I have an obsession with Nashville.

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Speaker 1: I've always felt that Nashville needed me, and I wanted

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Speaker 1: to go in there and I wanted to find the

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Speaker 1: Patsy Clins. I wanted to find the Willie Nelson's. I

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Speaker 1: wanted to find Roy and Johnny and Loretta, Like, where's that.

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Speaker 1: Why isn't that, you know, happening right now? Where's those dark,

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Speaker 1: brooding country stars that told these incredible stories. It's like

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Speaker 1: it all just sounds like, let's think of something that

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Speaker 1: sounds like beer bottles and Jack Daniels, you know, or whatever.

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Speaker 1: And to me, that's it's like taking the jazz out

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Speaker 1: of jazz. So country music to me, I was brought

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Speaker 1: up and my father loved country music, country music and

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Speaker 1: Frank Sinatra, so it's it's in my I mean, I

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Speaker 1: can write, I can write, I can go be country

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Speaker 1: if I wanted to, I make a whole country album.

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Speaker 1: It's in me somehow. So that didn't work out, And okakay,

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Speaker 1: tell me how you said your ego try to take over. Well,

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Speaker 1: I went to go. I went out there to work

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Speaker 1: with Faith Hill, and I wrote some really great songs

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Speaker 1: for her. One was like a gospel and one was

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Speaker 1: a great country song, and she was over the moon.

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Speaker 1: Basically as soon as I left the studio in the car,

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Speaker 1: her manager called my manager at the time and said,

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Speaker 1: you know these songs will never see the light of day.

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Speaker 1: They're not going to go on any faith Hill record,

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Speaker 1: Like it was crazy. And then I guess people were

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Speaker 1: upset at her for bringing an outsider, so it was

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Speaker 1: just obviously not a good fit for me. And then

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Speaker 1: so the fact that when this all full circle came

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Speaker 1: back around what ten twelve years later, and I'm getting

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Speaker 1: an opportunity to go work with Dolly Parton, I was like, fuck, yes,

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Speaker 1: you know. I told the music supervisor Buck Damon, like,

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Speaker 1: don't you dare go hire anybody else. I am the

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Speaker 1: right person for this job. And then because there was

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Speaker 1: somebody else, he was going to look at that more qualified,

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Speaker 1: you know. And because I had to do with like

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Speaker 1: a little bit of scoring too, like be able to

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Speaker 1: take the songs that I write and weave them through

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Speaker 1: the movie. So then I was I had this whole

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Speaker 1: brainstorm like, well, they want me to write one song

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Speaker 1: with her and re record one old song, and I said,

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Speaker 1: now we got to do a whole album. I'm gonna

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Speaker 1: get together Dolly Parton. I'm writing an album with her.

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Speaker 1: I'm doing a whole album. So I came up with

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Speaker 1: the idea to do five redos, like you know, and

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Speaker 1: get duets, you know. So I get to see it,

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Speaker 1: and I start picking out people that I thought would

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Speaker 1: be a great fit, not who was most popular, but

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Speaker 1: what would be a great fit for Dolly's voice, and

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Speaker 1: put that all together. And then when her and I

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Speaker 1: finally met and she heard these songs, she was like,

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Speaker 1: holy smoke. The when when they told me you're gonna

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Speaker 1: I was gonna work with Lynda pair I said, okay,

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Speaker 1: I do. She's like, you know, I thought you were

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Speaker 1: going to take the songs more pop, and I was

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Speaker 1: gonna be fine with that. I wouldn't have said anything,

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Speaker 1: you know, and because she would not have liked that

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Speaker 1: at all. So you wrote the songs not with her,

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Speaker 1: but no, I re recorded the songs the re records,

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Speaker 1: like here I Am Dune Blonde. I got in here

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Speaker 1: the band. I put a band together that were not

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Speaker 1: session players and they were not from Nashville, recorded it here,

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Speaker 1: had someone sing the parts down for her, and then

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Speaker 1: I sent that those are just the re records. And

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Speaker 1: then when we met and she was so happy with

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Speaker 1: what it sounded like. She was like, it sounds modern,

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Speaker 1: but it doesn't. It sounds like me. And it's like

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Speaker 1: Oh my god, I'm just sitting in my chair and

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Speaker 1: spinning and loving this and whatever. And she's like, so,

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Speaker 1: what do you want? We had? I guess we're gonna

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Speaker 1: write tomorrow. And everybody's like saying, Dolly hasn't written with anybody.

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Speaker 1: You know, she doesn't write with people, and she hasn't

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Speaker 1: she hasn't written in a while, so good luck you

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Speaker 1: know to that. And I'm like, okay, don't worry. I'm

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Speaker 1: not worried at all. So when we met, we just

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Speaker 1: instantly got along. And she's like, so, you know, we're

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Speaker 1: gonna writing session tomorrow. What are you expecting. And I'm like, well,

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Speaker 1: we're gonna sit down and just hang out. She's like, well,

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Speaker 1: just so you know, I just don't write with people

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Speaker 1: and it's been a while since I've written a song.

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Speaker 1: She's like, are you you have a number in mind?

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Speaker 1: And I'm like, yeah, I feel like five or six.

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Speaker 1: And she just like looked at me and started laughing,

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Speaker 1: and she was like, okay, well let's just get one,

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Speaker 1: you know. And it two days. We wrote six songs.

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Speaker 1: It was just like bang, bang bang bang. We just

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Speaker 1: hit it off. It literally, she's like a close friend

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Speaker 1: now and We talked to each other like at least

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Speaker 1: twice a week, and she's an incredible inspiration and her

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Speaker 1: talent is obviously beyond belief, and her storytelling is that

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Speaker 1: of what I've been missing. So we wrote these great

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Speaker 1: fucking songs. And it doesn't sound modern, but it doesn't

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Speaker 1: sound old, but it sounds like Dolly. Still, how did

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Speaker 1: you start to write with You're in a room. Were

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Speaker 1: you in this room with her? No, I was in Nashville.

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Speaker 1: You were in Nashville. So you're sitting down in her place.

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Speaker 1: She has a place where she calls it the villa.

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Speaker 1: She had her long nails, so she didn't want to

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Speaker 1: play guitar. Just pick up the guitar and I start

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Speaker 1: coming up with ideas just like that. You didn't did

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Speaker 1: you talk much? First? Yeah? We talked, and then we

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Speaker 1: just it was time to create. You know, when there's

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Speaker 1: time to create, there's no talking. You just go into create. Really,

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Speaker 1: you just flip a switch, just flip a switch. And

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Speaker 1: it was funny because the bob that was in there,

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Speaker 1: he was like, what are you guys doing. It's like,

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Speaker 1: we're just writing songs and he's like, that's another good one.

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Speaker 1: And then we did it again. So the first day

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Speaker 1: was three songs, the second day was three songs. Then

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Speaker 1: she took it and wrote lyrics on the second night

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Speaker 1: to all of the songs, and then by the third

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Speaker 1: day she came and we recorded them down with the lyrics,

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Speaker 1: and then I came here with those songs and recorded them,

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Speaker 1: and then she showed up and then we did the vocals.

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Speaker 1: So she then wrote the lyrics in a day to

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Speaker 1: all the songs. Yeah, and she also came and sang

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Speaker 1: all of those songs in one day. Was she surprised

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Speaker 1: how fast you were doing it? She was surprised, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: because she's written a lot of songs. She's written like

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Speaker 1: five thousand songs. Yeah, she was surprised how easy it

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Speaker 1: was with the two of us. But then she calls

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Speaker 1: me her creative soulmate. She and I are very very

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Speaker 1: similar when we have a lot of we're very the

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Speaker 1: same when it comes to work. It's like we're very

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Speaker 1: hardcore about our work ethics and we're workers, and so

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Speaker 1: it was like easy, writing songs should be easy. You

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Speaker 1: shouldn't have to labor over writing a song when you're

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Speaker 1: laboring when you're like I've heard I hear people about

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Speaker 1: working on a song for a week, Like you've been

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Speaker 1: writing a song for a fucking week? Are you kidding me?

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Speaker 1: It's time to let go and move on, you know,

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Speaker 1: And especially if it's taken five of you to write

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Speaker 1: a song in one week, there's a bigger problem there.

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Speaker 1: And Dolly and I just went We just had a

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Speaker 1: creative flow and we just took advantage of the energy

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Speaker 1: that was going on. And then she showed up on

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Speaker 1: the third day with all the lyrics and we just

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Speaker 1: recorded it down. It is a god. These are incredible.

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Speaker 1: And then when I got here, I recorded all the songs,

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Speaker 1: sent them ahead. She came down here and walked in

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Speaker 1: and sang all six songs in one day. I was like,

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Speaker 1: are you fucking kidding me? Like what, I can't even

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Speaker 1: get a young artist to come in and sing one

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Speaker 1: song in a day. Dolly Parton at seventy three walked

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Speaker 1: in here and sang six very difficult songs in one day. Okay,

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Speaker 1: So that part impressed you, that she could writing fast

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Speaker 1: doesn't impress you. But singing six songs in a day,

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Speaker 1: because it's you have to understand, Dolly. Normally, a woman

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Speaker 1: loses their high range as they get older. Dolly is

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Speaker 1: singing all her songs and all the original keys. There's

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Speaker 1: no change does all in the original keys. Wow. And

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Speaker 1: that is extremely impressive because like I've known artists at

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Speaker 1: twenty and then I see him again at thirty and

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Speaker 1: they're already they can't even get In fact, I have

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Speaker 1: an artist that isn't even singing all her songs right now,

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Speaker 1: and she's really new and she's already dropping the keys

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Speaker 1: down to preserve her voice. Dolly, Dolly's in it. She's

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Speaker 1: a singer, She's that's all even. She's a writer and

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Speaker 1: she's a singer. She's a performer. She's Dolly Parton, one

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Speaker 1: of the most recognizable people on this planet. Yeah you know.

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Speaker 1: And she does not take her name lightly like she

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Speaker 1: wants to know that Dolly Parton did all this, like

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Speaker 1: it's a Dolly Parton is her business and she does.

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Speaker 1: She practice every day? Does she She's writing all the time.

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Speaker 1: She says that she's you know, I always get around

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Speaker 1: with her. I'm like, do you really, like what do

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Speaker 1: you do at home? Like are you you know? Because

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Speaker 1: she's always decked out, yeah you know, And I'm like,

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Speaker 1: are you do you go to a store. Do you

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Speaker 1: go to a store? And if you do, you know?

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Speaker 1: And I'm convinced she has a whole other life, because

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Speaker 1: once you take off all that stuff, there's got to

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Speaker 1: be you can't recognize her, I'm certain. So she'll laugh

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Speaker 1: and I'm like, do you have another lifestyle going on?

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Speaker 1: And she's like, you never know. Well, she also taps

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Speaker 1: into clearly her early life. Yeah, very easily, because girl

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Speaker 1: to movies to me, I mean it's it's a different period,

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Speaker 1: but it reminded me of Code of many Colors. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: well that's some saying that Dolly won't write just for

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Speaker 1: a movie. She has to relate to it. So the

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Speaker 1: inspiration was, how can I write some stories that are

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Speaker 1: are going to be fulfilling to me emotionally and support

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Speaker 1: this film and the characters. But the people you have

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Speaker 1: worked with were very consciously or maybe not consciously when

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Speaker 1: they showed up trying to make a change in their career,

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Speaker 1: trying to sort of push limits. I think of the

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Speaker 1: first Pink album you did, certainly the albums you did

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Speaker 1: with Christine Aguiler and those are those are probably your

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Speaker 1: most famous albums. Is that process different than what working

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Speaker 1: with someone like Dolly Parton, who's such a pro. When

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Speaker 1: someone else comes in here, how do you work with them? Well,

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Speaker 1: I still was changing Dolly. I told her, I said,

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Speaker 1: I'm going to change it up a little bit, you know,

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Speaker 1: because when you listen to Dolly Parton records, there's a

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Speaker 1: lot going on in the production. And I told her

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Speaker 1: I was going to clean out everything. I just warned

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Speaker 1: them and I said, I didn't want to make this

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Speaker 1: a Nashville country album. I just wanted it to have

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Speaker 1: a cool feel. I wanted to divibe, and they were

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Speaker 1: all up for it. And you know, she has this

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Speaker 1: song called here I Am that. I'm shocked it was

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Speaker 1: never a single, so see us sing it with her.

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Speaker 1: It's such a big song and it never was a

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Speaker 1: single in the seventies. But I listened to it and

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Speaker 1: I'm like, well I could see why it was. It

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Speaker 1: was just a lot was going on, you know, So

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Speaker 1: Dolly doesn't need someone like me. But what I offered,

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Speaker 1: and what I came in with was giving kind of

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Speaker 1: like a a flip a little bit like I just

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Speaker 1: flipped it, you know, kind of just gave her a

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Speaker 1: tiny little not makeover, but more of a like a

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Speaker 1: let's just get you a little bit more present into

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Speaker 1: the here and now. What were the musical aesthetics you

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Speaker 1: wanted to change? The music was just taking all the

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Speaker 1: twang out and all the it was like the Nashville

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Speaker 1: out of it. Because those players incredible players, but it's

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Speaker 1: hard to get a grip on them, and then there's

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Speaker 1: no feel. It's just guys going in a room and

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Speaker 1: they're clocking in and they're taking their fifteen minute break,

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Speaker 1: you know. But guys in bands they don't do that.

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Speaker 1: They work for pizza and beer and they're done until

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Speaker 1: they're done, and the heart of it comes from that,

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Speaker 1: you know. So that was the biggest thing she heard

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Speaker 1: that right off the top. Like one of the biggest

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Speaker 1: compliments I recently just received was, you know, I put

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Speaker 1: together her Grammy performance with that same band and the

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Speaker 1: sound everything, and after the performance, I did the whole medley,

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Speaker 1: you know, and and Ken Erlek said that he's never

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Speaker 1: let somebody do that before, so he just let me

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Speaker 1: do the medley, put it all together, and it came

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Speaker 1: out incredible. It was a big hit and everybody remembers it. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: So then I'm out there, I'm about to go sit

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Speaker 1: down and Beck comes up to me, and you know,

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Speaker 1: Beck doesn't talk a lot, and he comes up to

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Speaker 1: me and he's all, that was great, you know, really

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Speaker 1: like mellow And I'm like, thank you. He's like, so,

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Speaker 1: who is the band? Like, would it be anybody I know?

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Speaker 1: And I'm like no. He's like, are they studio players?

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Speaker 1: I'm like no, I said, they're all from you know,

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Speaker 1: I'm talking in his like you know, like this lower

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Speaker 1: level and I'm like no, back, I go there, they're friends,

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Speaker 1: they're from bands. And he's like, you could totally tell.

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Speaker 1: That was really great. They had a great feel. And

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Speaker 1: that is exactly what I was trying to go for,

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Speaker 1: is that when all the musicians in that room could

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Speaker 1: hear the difference of all of what you normally get

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Speaker 1: on the Grammys. And what was even funnier is that

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Speaker 1: they kept calling me the Grammys would ask me for

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Speaker 1: the files and I'm all, what files, Like, well, when

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Speaker 1: you can't, just can you just send us over the files?

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Speaker 1: And I kept on going, what files are you talking about?

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Speaker 1: You know, They're like, you know the tracks? Oh, I

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Speaker 1: go no, dude, this is live. Oh okay. And then

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Speaker 1: I'd get a call the next day do you when

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Speaker 1: do you think you'll have those files over to us?

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Speaker 1: The sessions, And I'm like, I'm going to say it again.

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Speaker 1: We are playing live. There's no clicks, there's no back

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Speaker 1: click track or none of that. We're playing live. At

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Speaker 1: this point, Linda stepped out to take a phone call,

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Speaker 1: so we'll take a break too. When we come back,

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Speaker 1: we'll have more with Linda Perry. We're back with Linda Perry.

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Speaker 1: So your background, you grew up not here, You grew

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Speaker 1: up East, is that right? I grew up in San Diego.

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Speaker 1: I was born in Boston, but I was only one

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Speaker 1: years one year old, and then I moved to San Diego.

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Speaker 1: And guitar was your first instrument. Guitar, Yeah, I just

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Speaker 1: started kind of singing writing. It just all kind of

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Speaker 1: fell together. And then and what age did you know

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Speaker 1: that was going to be it? I didn't, So I

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Speaker 1: never looked at it as music. I just knew I

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Speaker 1: was different and I was special. So I would like

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Speaker 1: do stuff like interview myself. At the time, we had

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Speaker 1: Mike Douglas and the mrv Griffin Show, and I'd be

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Speaker 1: on the MURV Griffin Show, Hey in my room, and well,

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Speaker 1: now we're going to bring back Linda Perry. Oh, it's

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Speaker 1: so good to have you back, Linda. And I never

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Speaker 1: know why I'm on the show, but i'd be like,

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Speaker 1: thanks merv. Oh yeah, it feels good to be here

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00:22:44,440 --> 00:22:47,160
Speaker 1: and everybody, and I see the plause, I see everybody.

377
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Speaker 1: I'm doing this interview and everything, but there was no

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Speaker 1: clear understanding of what it was I was famous and

379
00:22:54,400 --> 00:22:57,840
Speaker 1: on the show for, and then everything that I did

380
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Speaker 1: was modeled after this very confidence. Whatever it was the way,

381
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Speaker 1: it was never clear way anybody was on the merv

382
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Speaker 1: of Griffin. Yeah, I remember, it was like and then

383
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Speaker 1: and then it got to school and I just could

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Speaker 1: not you know, I'm very I'm not good in school.

385
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Speaker 1: I'm not good with learning something like it's hard for

386
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Speaker 1: you to teach me something. So I got out of

387
00:23:26,280 --> 00:23:30,000
Speaker 1: school very early, like eighth grade. But I kept telling

388
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Speaker 1: myself this was okay because what I'm going to be

389
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Speaker 1: I don't need school. I don't need to know math

390
00:23:38,040 --> 00:23:41,479
Speaker 1: and social studies and this is going to be of

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Speaker 1: no use for me. Well, what are you going to do, Linda.

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Speaker 1: I don't know, but I know it's not okay. I'm

393
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Speaker 1: going to stop you right there, because as beautiful as

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Speaker 1: this room is there is a there's the studio room

395
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Speaker 1: over there with all the equipment and I'll bet you

396
00:23:58,600 --> 00:24:00,880
Speaker 1: know that equipment backwards and forward. Yeah, I had to

397
00:24:01,000 --> 00:24:03,120
Speaker 1: buy it and teach myself how to do it. Okay,

398
00:24:03,200 --> 00:24:05,399
Speaker 1: but that it is a room that would scare most

399
00:24:05,440 --> 00:24:08,480
Speaker 1: engineers a general dynamic, yes, but you were able to

400
00:24:10,080 --> 00:24:14,320
Speaker 1: teach yourself even things that complicated. Yeah, well, it's really

401
00:24:14,359 --> 00:24:17,760
Speaker 1: not that complicated once you understand what the each item does,

402
00:24:17,800 --> 00:24:21,920
Speaker 1: because everything has a category. There's eques. That's pretty self

403
00:24:21,960 --> 00:24:24,080
Speaker 1: explanatory to me. You got your lows, you got your midge,

404
00:24:24,119 --> 00:24:26,240
Speaker 1: you get your highs, and you just turn the knobs

405
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Speaker 1: until it sounds good, and then you have compression, and

406
00:24:29,280 --> 00:24:33,040
Speaker 1: compression you get to play with because you don't got

407
00:24:33,080 --> 00:24:34,879
Speaker 1: a certain amount of knobs on that one, and so

408
00:24:34,960 --> 00:24:38,280
Speaker 1: you just turn it. There's thresholds, there's attacks, there's all

409
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Speaker 1: this stuff and you figure it out like you know, oh,

410
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Speaker 1: oh that's what that does. It was like I did

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Speaker 1: this album for nun Blong's album, which I just can't

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Speaker 1: bear listening to it. It's ridiculously bad to me. The

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00:24:54,680 --> 00:24:59,040
Speaker 1: sound we are good, you know, the band was a

414
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Speaker 1: good band and still like the songs on it, kind

415
00:25:01,920 --> 00:25:05,879
Speaker 1: of some of them, but the song, the sound of

416
00:25:05,920 --> 00:25:09,480
Speaker 1: the record is like atrocious to me. You know, what's

417
00:25:09,560 --> 00:25:13,120
Speaker 1: up with the only song I recorded? I did that one?

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Speaker 1: So you recorded that one? I recorded What's up? Okay?

419
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Speaker 1: So it wasn't the was it not David Tickle? I

420
00:25:18,560 --> 00:25:22,720
Speaker 1: recorded that because David Tickle's version was terrible, so I

421
00:25:22,840 --> 00:25:26,440
Speaker 1: re recorded it. So when I would ask him questions

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Speaker 1: about why does this sound like this or whatever? I

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Speaker 1: would be met with can't you just be the singer

424
00:25:32,760 --> 00:25:35,679
Speaker 1: and let me just be the producer and be happy

425
00:25:35,680 --> 00:25:38,040
Speaker 1: with that? And then when I'd go to the label

426
00:25:38,080 --> 00:25:41,359
Speaker 1: to tell them how unhappy I was with what was

427
00:25:41,400 --> 00:25:44,960
Speaker 1: going on, I would be met with the exact same thing.

428
00:25:45,880 --> 00:25:48,520
Speaker 1: Can't you just be happy knowing that you're you know,

429
00:25:48,920 --> 00:25:52,600
Speaker 1: being involved and your voice is being heard, and he's

430
00:25:52,600 --> 00:25:55,280
Speaker 1: gonna change some things. I'm like, no, that's my point.

431
00:25:55,320 --> 00:25:58,560
Speaker 1: He's not. He's telling me to be a singer. And

432
00:25:58,640 --> 00:26:00,680
Speaker 1: if I'm just a singer, well then there's a bigger

433
00:26:00,760 --> 00:26:04,600
Speaker 1: problem here because I'm not. I'm the main songwriter and

434
00:26:04,640 --> 00:26:07,359
Speaker 1: I am the singer, but more importantly, I'm the you know,

435
00:26:08,280 --> 00:26:11,880
Speaker 1: fronting this band, and I have a bigger vision than

436
00:26:11,920 --> 00:26:16,400
Speaker 1: what's happening here. So anyways, so how did you do that?

437
00:26:16,680 --> 00:26:19,119
Speaker 1: I mean, nobody wanted you to record the song. No,

438
00:26:19,480 --> 00:26:22,119
Speaker 1: I was miserable with this version because it had a

439
00:26:22,160 --> 00:26:24,639
Speaker 1: solo in it. He had me change lyrics. There's a

440
00:26:24,720 --> 00:26:29,679
Speaker 1: marching drum, all this craziness, and so we were pretty

441
00:26:29,720 --> 00:26:33,800
Speaker 1: much done. We had one reala tape left and we said,

442
00:26:33,840 --> 00:26:36,520
Speaker 1: can we have that? And so we took the real

443
00:26:36,680 --> 00:26:40,320
Speaker 1: tape and I called the plant in Salsilito. It's like,

444
00:26:40,760 --> 00:26:43,439
Speaker 1: we don't have any money. The label's not going to

445
00:26:43,440 --> 00:26:45,240
Speaker 1: give us any more money, but we have to re

446
00:26:45,240 --> 00:26:49,200
Speaker 1: record a song and we have one REALA type. Can

447
00:26:49,240 --> 00:26:51,879
Speaker 1: we come in? And they're of course, And so I

448
00:26:51,920 --> 00:26:54,359
Speaker 1: think our manager worked out some kind of really great

449
00:26:54,400 --> 00:26:57,720
Speaker 1: little spec deal whatever. I don't know, but barely anything.

450
00:26:57,720 --> 00:27:02,200
Speaker 1: They were so supportive of us there with their house engineer,

451
00:27:02,560 --> 00:27:06,880
Speaker 1: and I sat with him and just started dialing in sounds.

452
00:27:06,920 --> 00:27:10,360
Speaker 1: I don't had you ever been behind a console before, No,

453
00:27:10,400 --> 00:27:13,320
Speaker 1: not at all, but I watched everything, So I just

454
00:27:13,320 --> 00:27:17,040
Speaker 1: started dialing in sounds with him, learning from him. Hey,

455
00:27:17,440 --> 00:27:19,600
Speaker 1: I'm not liking the way this kick drum sounds. I'm

456
00:27:19,600 --> 00:27:23,359
Speaker 1: gonna go move it, move the microphone around you happy

457
00:27:23,359 --> 00:27:27,639
Speaker 1: with that? That sounds great, guitar tones, vocal tone great.

458
00:27:28,160 --> 00:27:31,520
Speaker 1: We get our take. We mix it that night because

459
00:27:31,520 --> 00:27:35,960
Speaker 1: we're masterinus the next day, so we mix it that night.

460
00:27:36,080 --> 00:27:39,040
Speaker 1: We're there all night long, and we barely made that

461
00:27:39,160 --> 00:27:42,640
Speaker 1: version onto the record. And then when I was telling

462
00:27:42,680 --> 00:27:45,000
Speaker 1: my manager, I feel like I should get producer on this,

463
00:27:46,040 --> 00:27:48,600
Speaker 1: my own manager was like, I don't think that's going

464
00:27:48,680 --> 00:27:50,399
Speaker 1: to happen. You know, they already have the deal. And

465
00:27:50,400 --> 00:27:52,480
Speaker 1: then I asked Tom Wally, I'm like, I feel like

466
00:27:52,520 --> 00:27:55,600
Speaker 1: I should get producer on this, and he can't. You

467
00:27:55,640 --> 00:27:59,359
Speaker 1: be happy that you are part of it. It's your band,

468
00:28:00,240 --> 00:28:05,360
Speaker 1: it you saved the day, But why can't I get production?

469
00:28:05,840 --> 00:28:09,919
Speaker 1: I produced this, David didn't. David's production has a solo

470
00:28:10,040 --> 00:28:13,600
Speaker 1: and a dumb marching drum, and this song wouldn't have

471
00:28:13,600 --> 00:28:16,560
Speaker 1: been a hit if it was for David, you know. Anyways,

472
00:28:16,560 --> 00:28:19,080
Speaker 1: So that was my first experience, and then from then

473
00:28:19,119 --> 00:28:23,840
Speaker 1: on out it was I just constantly asked questions and

474
00:28:24,640 --> 00:28:27,080
Speaker 1: I started buying gear as soon as we started making money.

475
00:28:27,280 --> 00:28:30,159
Speaker 1: I worked with Bill Batrell on a solo album, and

476
00:28:30,200 --> 00:28:32,840
Speaker 1: he taught me everything he taught. He said, all the

477
00:28:32,880 --> 00:28:35,240
Speaker 1: right things to me, turn the knobs until it sounds

478
00:28:35,240 --> 00:28:40,520
Speaker 1: good to your ears. There's nothing right or wrong, and

479
00:28:40,680 --> 00:28:42,760
Speaker 1: this is what this does. This, And so I just

480
00:28:42,800 --> 00:28:46,040
Speaker 1: started buying equipment and then a bunch of it just

481
00:28:46,120 --> 00:28:51,160
Speaker 1: sat in my warehouse in San Francisco and I would

482
00:28:51,160 --> 00:28:55,320
Speaker 1: look at it and I just started kind of piecing

483
00:28:55,320 --> 00:28:58,400
Speaker 1: it together. And it took me months to figure out

484
00:28:58,520 --> 00:29:00,800
Speaker 1: how to put it all together. I mean, I'm talking

485
00:29:00,840 --> 00:29:07,640
Speaker 1: about twenty four channel board, talking about nave pres compressors,

486
00:29:08,480 --> 00:29:13,280
Speaker 1: the machine, all of it. And I just kept going

487
00:29:13,320 --> 00:29:16,720
Speaker 1: at it every single day until I fully understood. And

488
00:29:16,760 --> 00:29:18,320
Speaker 1: then I got it all in. And then I had

489
00:29:18,360 --> 00:29:21,040
Speaker 1: to call this one guy just to hardwire some things

490
00:29:21,040 --> 00:29:23,560
Speaker 1: for me that I was like, Oh, okay, I get it.

491
00:29:23,600 --> 00:29:26,080
Speaker 1: I can't make this work. Has to be hardwired into

492
00:29:26,080 --> 00:29:28,640
Speaker 1: the board, So like, can you come do this for me?

493
00:29:28,680 --> 00:29:31,560
Speaker 1: I don't know anything about that, you know. So it

494
00:29:31,360 --> 00:29:33,280
Speaker 1: was was it scary getting up every day and looking

495
00:29:33,280 --> 00:29:35,080
Speaker 1: at the stuff, or you just thought that if you

496
00:29:35,200 --> 00:29:40,560
Speaker 1: kept at it, no, it would work. Nothing's impossible. I

497
00:29:40,560 --> 00:29:43,120
Speaker 1: didn't say it was impossible. Ask if it was scary, No,

498
00:29:43,400 --> 00:29:47,480
Speaker 1: they're scared scary I'm only scared now. I just recently

499
00:29:47,520 --> 00:29:50,840
Speaker 1: got scared because the more when you get in family, fear,

500
00:29:51,680 --> 00:29:55,400
Speaker 1: fear starts showing up when there's other people involved, you know,

501
00:29:55,440 --> 00:29:59,840
Speaker 1: but no, fear and being scared has never been okay,

502
00:30:00,200 --> 00:30:03,240
Speaker 1: what fears show up now? Well, when you have a family,

503
00:30:03,280 --> 00:30:05,959
Speaker 1: your feared of, fear of like, oh, I know only

504
00:30:06,160 --> 00:30:07,560
Speaker 1: thing to happen to my family. I got to take

505
00:30:07,560 --> 00:30:10,520
Speaker 1: care of them, you know, being a good mom. But

506
00:30:10,560 --> 00:30:12,840
Speaker 1: in terms of in terms of your career, you didn't

507
00:30:12,840 --> 00:30:15,680
Speaker 1: have that. No, So when you did your I think

508
00:30:15,720 --> 00:30:18,840
Speaker 1: your first solo was in Flight? Was that right? Yes?

509
00:30:19,120 --> 00:30:21,080
Speaker 1: Was that the way you wanted it? Did that turn out?

510
00:30:21,280 --> 00:30:26,240
Speaker 1: I love that album. That album to me is honestly

511
00:30:26,280 --> 00:30:31,880
Speaker 1: it's perfection. I love that album. It sounds like everything

512
00:30:31,920 --> 00:30:35,400
Speaker 1: that was in my head. You know. I sat down

513
00:30:36,400 --> 00:30:39,280
Speaker 1: and with the bottle of wine and my cigarettes and

514
00:30:39,520 --> 00:30:42,400
Speaker 1: just sat at a chair just like this and basically

515
00:30:42,440 --> 00:30:45,760
Speaker 1: saying like this, it's very ambitious, a lot of different

516
00:30:45,840 --> 00:30:49,200
Speaker 1: kinds of arrangements. Yeah, well that's what was in That's

517
00:30:49,240 --> 00:30:52,480
Speaker 1: the album I wanted to make. But four non blondes

518
00:30:52,640 --> 00:30:56,080
Speaker 1: and the label didn't want that album, and I just said, well,

519
00:30:56,120 --> 00:30:58,520
Speaker 1: I'm going to go. You guys can have that album.

520
00:30:58,600 --> 00:31:01,160
Speaker 1: There was a second album that we were and it

521
00:31:01,280 --> 00:31:05,800
Speaker 1: was filled with probably pop songs, but I didn't like it.

522
00:31:07,000 --> 00:31:11,120
Speaker 1: I couldn't go, I couldn't support it. Did you start

523
00:31:11,560 --> 00:31:14,360
Speaker 1: writing for other people and then start producing or producing

524
00:31:14,400 --> 00:31:18,360
Speaker 1: then writing it came together? Because then I was so

525
00:31:18,440 --> 00:31:21,800
Speaker 1: bummed out when in Flight the label just basically shelved

526
00:31:21,840 --> 00:31:26,000
Speaker 1: that record. I was very disappointed. So I just said, okay,

527
00:31:26,080 --> 00:31:30,959
Speaker 1: I'll go find another way into this little party. I

528
00:31:31,080 --> 00:31:36,920
Speaker 1: was so fixated with vintage. Everything I did was, you know,

529
00:31:38,920 --> 00:31:42,360
Speaker 1: on vintage gear, and I was kind of a snob.

530
00:31:44,520 --> 00:31:48,600
Speaker 1: So I moved to La Left, San Francisco. I'm like,

531
00:31:48,600 --> 00:31:52,240
Speaker 1: all right, I'm out of here. Came here, moved into

532
00:31:52,400 --> 00:31:56,120
Speaker 1: this house and turned there's a room in there, and

533
00:31:56,160 --> 00:31:58,840
Speaker 1: I turned that into my studio. And I called a

534
00:31:58,840 --> 00:32:01,520
Speaker 1: friend and I said, what's all that stuff on the

535
00:32:01,600 --> 00:32:04,640
Speaker 1: radio right now? Like, what are the what's that sound

536
00:32:04,720 --> 00:32:07,920
Speaker 1: that I'm hearing? And then he said, oh, it's a

537
00:32:08,080 --> 00:32:15,720
Speaker 1: Trident keyboard, MPCs. People are recording to D eighty eights

538
00:32:15,760 --> 00:32:23,400
Speaker 1: now and and roll in expansion cards or programs. I'm

539
00:32:23,440 --> 00:32:25,040
Speaker 1: like all right, So I went and bought all that

540
00:32:26,360 --> 00:32:30,400
Speaker 1: set it up, moved all my vintage gear out of

541
00:32:30,440 --> 00:32:34,120
Speaker 1: the way, you know, left up pres and stuff, plugged

542
00:32:34,120 --> 00:32:36,880
Speaker 1: in all this shit, and now I just know everything.

543
00:32:37,040 --> 00:32:39,000
Speaker 1: And now I know what I'm doing. I know how

544
00:32:39,040 --> 00:32:42,400
Speaker 1: everything gets connected. And so I'm like, all right, let's

545
00:32:42,440 --> 00:32:45,560
Speaker 1: see what this shit does. Okay, blah blah. I get

546
00:32:45,600 --> 00:32:48,800
Speaker 1: on the NPC. It create a beat, and then I

547
00:32:48,880 --> 00:32:51,320
Speaker 1: create some other stuff and oh, here's what are these

548
00:32:51,360 --> 00:32:55,760
Speaker 1: weird little horns? Okay horns? Just kind of finding out

549
00:32:55,760 --> 00:32:59,600
Speaker 1: what all this stuff does. This needs a wa wa.

550
00:32:59,720 --> 00:33:01,680
Speaker 1: I mean, I grab my guitar, like on me ad

551
00:33:01,720 --> 00:33:04,400
Speaker 1: this blah blah blah, grab a bullet microphone and I'm

552
00:33:04,440 --> 00:33:07,520
Speaker 1: just like, I'm gonna think of every cliche I can

553
00:33:07,520 --> 00:33:13,000
Speaker 1: think of coming up. So you better get this potty started.

554
00:33:13,080 --> 00:33:15,960
Speaker 1: Get this poddy started on a Saturday, you know, and

555
00:33:16,000 --> 00:33:21,360
Speaker 1: I just start singing this crazy song. And I mean

556
00:33:21,400 --> 00:33:24,640
Speaker 1: it happened so quick, but it was just me dicking

557
00:33:24,680 --> 00:33:28,520
Speaker 1: around trying to understand what this equipment did. And then

558
00:33:28,720 --> 00:33:35,600
Speaker 1: a week later, who calls me, This girl Pink, She's

559
00:33:35,640 --> 00:33:39,480
Speaker 1: like left this crazy message and I call her back

560
00:33:39,480 --> 00:33:40,760
Speaker 1: and I'm like, I don't think you have the right

561
00:33:40,800 --> 00:33:44,680
Speaker 1: Linda Perry. I just saw who you were, and I

562
00:33:44,680 --> 00:33:47,760
Speaker 1: don't know anything about R and B and I'm not

563
00:33:47,920 --> 00:33:51,080
Speaker 1: hip at all. And she's like, are you Lenna Perry

564
00:33:51,080 --> 00:33:54,000
Speaker 1: that's saying what's up? And dear mister President. I'm like yeah,

565
00:33:54,000 --> 00:33:56,640
Speaker 1: and she's like, you're the right Linda Perry. So we

566
00:33:56,760 --> 00:33:59,000
Speaker 1: meet and did you know her stuff at all? No?

567
00:33:59,440 --> 00:34:03,040
Speaker 1: Well from MTV. I saw it and I see blingling

568
00:34:03,120 --> 00:34:05,360
Speaker 1: ching ching, come on, and that's why I told her

569
00:34:05,680 --> 00:34:09,040
Speaker 1: I don't. It's not my world. So I meet her.

570
00:34:10,040 --> 00:34:12,800
Speaker 1: We instantly connect. She seems like a little mini version

571
00:34:12,840 --> 00:34:16,239
Speaker 1: of myself, you know, And I play her get the

572
00:34:16,239 --> 00:34:20,520
Speaker 1: party started. I'm like, oddly, I just wrote this crazy

573
00:34:20,560 --> 00:34:25,320
Speaker 1: song and I play it to her and she's like great,

574
00:34:25,520 --> 00:34:28,200
Speaker 1: and then she plays it to La Reid and they're like,

575
00:34:28,239 --> 00:34:32,719
Speaker 1: we got our first single. Those are the productions. So

576
00:34:33,440 --> 00:34:37,239
Speaker 1: writing and producing came hand in hand, and then that's

577
00:34:37,280 --> 00:34:40,160
Speaker 1: what started off. But you said you were just it

578
00:34:40,200 --> 00:34:42,239
Speaker 1: was a song just of cliches. Do you like the song?

579
00:34:42,640 --> 00:34:46,839
Speaker 1: I love it? Okay? To me, it's a it's totally fun.

580
00:34:46,840 --> 00:34:49,960
Speaker 1: I love it for so many reasons. One, it's so

581
00:34:50,120 --> 00:34:52,279
Speaker 1: not my style. Do you have written a song like

582
00:34:52,320 --> 00:34:55,920
Speaker 1: that two. It has a lot of heart. You know

583
00:34:56,000 --> 00:34:58,080
Speaker 1: that song, It's like it's crazy, but it's got a

584
00:34:58,120 --> 00:35:01,880
Speaker 1: cool vibe and it's so bizarre. I mean, I have

585
00:35:03,280 --> 00:35:07,239
Speaker 1: harpsichord and claws, and I got the craziest things. If

586
00:35:07,280 --> 00:35:09,080
Speaker 1: you actually listened to the song and break it down,

587
00:35:09,120 --> 00:35:12,279
Speaker 1: there's so much going on in there, but not you know,

588
00:35:12,400 --> 00:35:16,000
Speaker 1: but I and then everything was live again, nothing was

589
00:35:16,040 --> 00:35:18,480
Speaker 1: cut and pace. It was like I just played everything

590
00:35:18,600 --> 00:35:22,880
Speaker 1: on the fly. So there was no punching in either.

591
00:35:23,080 --> 00:35:25,239
Speaker 1: Like that was the beauty of this track. If I

592
00:35:25,400 --> 00:35:27,600
Speaker 1: picked up the bass, I played the bass from start

593
00:35:27,680 --> 00:35:30,600
Speaker 1: to and there was no I didn't punch in anything.

594
00:35:30,640 --> 00:35:32,640
Speaker 1: I was just I didn't know this was going to

595
00:35:32,640 --> 00:35:34,960
Speaker 1: be a recording. I would thought it was just going

596
00:35:35,000 --> 00:35:38,279
Speaker 1: to be an experience, you know. And how much of

597
00:35:38,320 --> 00:35:41,719
Speaker 1: that those original things you did in that room ended

598
00:35:41,800 --> 00:35:44,560
Speaker 1: up in the final That was all of it? Really, Yeah,

599
00:35:44,560 --> 00:35:46,799
Speaker 1: that was it. That was it. So everything her and

600
00:35:46,840 --> 00:35:49,680
Speaker 1: I did was the final and they were just demos.

601
00:35:49,719 --> 00:35:52,600
Speaker 1: So I pride myself on doing really great demos. And

602
00:35:52,680 --> 00:35:54,840
Speaker 1: one of the great things I tell people, it's like

603
00:35:55,480 --> 00:35:58,799
Speaker 1: it's very very important no matter where you are when

604
00:35:58,840 --> 00:36:01,000
Speaker 1: you write a song and you're gonna to go demo it,

605
00:36:01,080 --> 00:36:04,560
Speaker 1: make sure you're recording it great. Just take a moment

606
00:36:04,600 --> 00:36:07,480
Speaker 1: because you're never going to get that back. You're never

607
00:36:07,520 --> 00:36:10,359
Speaker 1: going to get that vocal back of writing a song

608
00:36:10,400 --> 00:36:13,400
Speaker 1: and being in that moment right then and there. You

609
00:36:13,480 --> 00:36:16,520
Speaker 1: can recreate it. You could try to get that back,

610
00:36:16,520 --> 00:36:18,799
Speaker 1: but that moment when you write that song in all

611
00:36:18,880 --> 00:36:21,799
Speaker 1: your heart and your energy is in it. Just make

612
00:36:21,880 --> 00:36:24,719
Speaker 1: sure you record the vocal the best that you possibly can,

613
00:36:24,760 --> 00:36:28,200
Speaker 1: because that vocal, chances are is going to be the

614
00:36:28,239 --> 00:36:32,160
Speaker 1: master vocal. What was Pinkle like to work with? Did

615
00:36:32,200 --> 00:36:35,880
Speaker 1: she understand that? Really? Great? You know, problem child, a

616
00:36:35,880 --> 00:36:39,520
Speaker 1: little rebellious, but it was fun, like she needed me

617
00:36:39,600 --> 00:36:42,760
Speaker 1: and I needed her, Like we entered each other's lives

618
00:36:42,760 --> 00:36:45,279
Speaker 1: in a very interesting time. Like what did she need

619
00:36:45,320 --> 00:36:48,560
Speaker 1: from you? She needed my guidance and my like I'm

620
00:36:48,880 --> 00:36:52,560
Speaker 1: when I'm with artists, I'm very grounding. I ground people

621
00:36:53,239 --> 00:36:55,799
Speaker 1: and give them. She needed to get out of what

622
00:36:56,160 --> 00:36:59,080
Speaker 1: you know, she they were turning her into an R

623
00:36:59,080 --> 00:37:01,279
Speaker 1: and B artist and she didn't want to do that

624
00:37:01,960 --> 00:37:04,120
Speaker 1: and she wouldn't have gotten it out on her own.

625
00:37:04,719 --> 00:37:09,040
Speaker 1: So when she and I met, I pulled her out.

626
00:37:09,080 --> 00:37:12,480
Speaker 1: I asked her, can you bring me your CD collection?

627
00:37:14,239 --> 00:37:17,120
Speaker 1: So she showed up one day with her big CDs collection,

628
00:37:17,800 --> 00:37:21,399
Speaker 1: like two big catalog things whatever, And I just went

629
00:37:21,440 --> 00:37:27,680
Speaker 1: through with Bruce Springsteen the time, Carol King, Aretha Franklin,

630
00:37:28,560 --> 00:37:32,719
Speaker 1: Errol Smith, Errolsmith, Erolsmith. And what did that tell you? Well?

631
00:37:32,960 --> 00:37:35,879
Speaker 1: I said, how are you doing the music that you're doing?

632
00:37:35,920 --> 00:37:39,319
Speaker 1: You don't even have any of that in here. She's like,

633
00:37:40,400 --> 00:37:43,160
Speaker 1: I don't know. It's where I started. You know. She

634
00:37:43,280 --> 00:37:48,560
Speaker 1: started in a girl band that was being put together. Yeah,

635
00:37:48,600 --> 00:37:51,520
Speaker 1: she was. They were putting her together and everybody was

636
00:37:51,520 --> 00:37:56,120
Speaker 1: writing the songs, and so sitting with me, we actually

637
00:37:57,280 --> 00:37:59,840
Speaker 1: it's like, well, let's just write whatever we're going to

638
00:37:59,880 --> 00:38:02,440
Speaker 1: writ right, And there was this one song called Eventually.

639
00:38:03,680 --> 00:38:06,319
Speaker 1: I said, do you trust me? And she's like, yeah,

640
00:38:06,440 --> 00:38:08,000
Speaker 1: I think so. And I said I need you to

641
00:38:08,160 --> 00:38:12,880
Speaker 1: just I'm going to play some chords and you're just

642
00:38:12,920 --> 00:38:15,160
Speaker 1: going to open up your mouth and you're just going

643
00:38:15,239 --> 00:38:18,680
Speaker 1: to start singing. And she like looked at me like huh.

644
00:38:18,719 --> 00:38:20,440
Speaker 1: I go, She's like, how am I going to do that?

645
00:38:20,480 --> 00:38:21,959
Speaker 1: I go, You're going to do it from your heart.

646
00:38:22,920 --> 00:38:24,719
Speaker 1: You're just going to close your eyes and you're going

647
00:38:24,800 --> 00:38:27,359
Speaker 1: to tell me how you feel right now, but you're

648
00:38:27,360 --> 00:38:30,239
Speaker 1: gonna tell me on the microphone, and you're going to

649
00:38:30,400 --> 00:38:32,400
Speaker 1: use words and you're going to sing it at the

650
00:38:32,400 --> 00:38:37,600
Speaker 1: same time. And she was petrified. So we put headphones

651
00:38:37,640 --> 00:38:41,120
Speaker 1: on and I just started playing these chords. I found

652
00:38:41,120 --> 00:38:42,799
Speaker 1: these chords. I didn't even know the chords that we're

653
00:38:42,840 --> 00:38:44,800
Speaker 1: going to be and I just found these beautiful chords,

654
00:38:46,280 --> 00:38:49,960
Speaker 1: you know, and it's just instantly, You're just in this moment,

655
00:38:50,080 --> 00:38:52,920
Speaker 1: you're just feeling this emotion because that's what chords are

656
00:38:52,960 --> 00:38:57,080
Speaker 1: supposed to do, and she just opened her mouth and

657
00:38:57,440 --> 00:39:02,959
Speaker 1: sang exactly what is on the record, Like all those

658
00:39:03,000 --> 00:39:09,880
Speaker 1: words were made up. That whole take was improvised. If so,

659
00:39:09,960 --> 00:39:13,040
Speaker 1: if you go back and listen to eventually, Okay, you're

660
00:39:13,080 --> 00:39:17,120
Speaker 1: going to be extremely impressed. Kids, you not. The only

661
00:39:17,160 --> 00:39:19,760
Speaker 1: thing we added was I started producing up the track

662
00:39:20,560 --> 00:39:24,959
Speaker 1: and maybe dis some backgrounds, but that piano and that

663
00:39:25,120 --> 00:39:30,440
Speaker 1: vocal was all ad libbed and it just went and

664
00:39:30,640 --> 00:39:35,520
Speaker 1: I got it was so emotional. Obviously something happened. The

665
00:39:35,600 --> 00:39:38,520
Speaker 1: trust and the channeling and just opening up and just

666
00:39:38,560 --> 00:39:43,720
Speaker 1: going for it. That song really made me very aware

667
00:39:43,880 --> 00:39:47,160
Speaker 1: of who she is as an individual too because of

668
00:39:47,160 --> 00:39:49,400
Speaker 1: what she was talking about. The whole song is about

669
00:39:49,440 --> 00:39:53,600
Speaker 1: people trying to have control over you. And did you

670
00:39:53,680 --> 00:39:55,560
Speaker 1: know it? When you were playing it, we were thinking,

671
00:39:55,760 --> 00:39:58,440
Speaker 1: this is it? This is the song I knew and

672
00:39:58,480 --> 00:40:01,640
Speaker 1: I found the chords. Yeah, something magical was going to happen.

673
00:40:02,480 --> 00:40:06,200
Speaker 1: So she was definitely was great about her and kind

674
00:40:06,239 --> 00:40:09,920
Speaker 1: of everybody that I work with, And maybe if I

675
00:40:09,920 --> 00:40:13,400
Speaker 1: can be as bold to say it's me that's making

676
00:40:13,440 --> 00:40:19,240
Speaker 1: this happen, that all the experiences are extremely vulnerable and open,

677
00:40:20,080 --> 00:40:23,320
Speaker 1: and I can tell you about this experience with pretty

678
00:40:23,360 --> 00:40:27,279
Speaker 1: much every artist I've ever worked with. It's something that

679
00:40:27,440 --> 00:40:31,560
Speaker 1: I feel is extremely important to happen. My job as

680
00:40:31,600 --> 00:40:35,120
Speaker 1: a producer to make the artists feel safe and have

681
00:40:35,280 --> 00:40:38,000
Speaker 1: them trust me. And because what we're trying to do

682
00:40:38,120 --> 00:40:41,680
Speaker 1: is be creative. We're trying to do something different, We're

683
00:40:41,680 --> 00:40:46,440
Speaker 1: trying to tell a story, and it's very important that

684
00:40:46,760 --> 00:40:52,160
Speaker 1: whoever you're working with feel safe because otherwise you're not

685
00:40:52,200 --> 00:40:55,520
Speaker 1: going to get that experience at all. You make it

686
00:40:55,560 --> 00:40:59,719
Speaker 1: sound almost like therapy, it's very much therapy. It's I mean,

687
00:40:59,760 --> 00:41:06,799
Speaker 1: there's crying, there's vulnerabilities, there's confessions, is that why you

688
00:41:06,840 --> 00:41:10,080
Speaker 1: think so many of your artists I said earlier, they

689
00:41:10,080 --> 00:41:12,200
Speaker 1: seem to be wanting to take a different direction when

690
00:41:12,200 --> 00:41:14,160
Speaker 1: they work with you. Y is it they don't want

691
00:41:14,200 --> 00:41:16,480
Speaker 1: to Is that part of Is that the result of

692
00:41:16,520 --> 00:41:21,879
Speaker 1: the way you work? Do you think I choose who

693
00:41:21,920 --> 00:41:26,360
Speaker 1: I work with? They don't choose me, but I choose

694
00:41:26,440 --> 00:41:32,239
Speaker 1: because I have to understand that something something. I'm going

695
00:41:32,280 --> 00:41:35,840
Speaker 1: to get something out of this, and it's not hits.

696
00:41:35,880 --> 00:41:39,200
Speaker 1: I'm not looking for that. I prefer album tracks. I

697
00:41:39,320 --> 00:41:43,200
Speaker 1: prefer albums. I don't like doing a song for somebody.

698
00:41:43,920 --> 00:41:47,920
Speaker 1: I don't find any satisfaction in that whatsoever. I have

699
00:41:48,040 --> 00:41:50,560
Speaker 1: to know that I'm going to be able to have

700
00:41:50,880 --> 00:41:53,880
Speaker 1: this experience with somebody and it's going to be real

701
00:41:53,960 --> 00:41:56,400
Speaker 1: and it's not going to be like, hey, can you

702
00:41:56,440 --> 00:41:59,520
Speaker 1: write me get the party started? Or beautiful or whatever

703
00:42:00,239 --> 00:42:02,920
Speaker 1: their thoughts are. I don't work with people like that.

704
00:42:04,040 --> 00:42:08,279
Speaker 1: I want to look back at my career and be

705
00:42:08,360 --> 00:42:13,399
Speaker 1: really proud of it. When we come back, Linda talks

706
00:42:13,400 --> 00:42:17,040
Speaker 1: about Christina Aguilera and how she gave her the song Beautiful.

707
00:42:21,280 --> 00:42:24,759
Speaker 1: We're back with more, Linda Perry, you mentioned beautiful. Can

708
00:42:24,800 --> 00:42:26,520
Speaker 1: you tell me a bit about that song, because that

709
00:42:26,560 --> 00:42:30,560
Speaker 1: really is You've written a lot of terrific songs. That

710
00:42:30,719 --> 00:42:38,160
Speaker 1: is one of the great songs of all time. It's

711
00:42:38,239 --> 00:42:41,680
Speaker 1: great because it's just an honest statement. Like I feel

712
00:42:41,680 --> 00:42:44,840
Speaker 1: like that song really was the starting of all everybody

713
00:42:44,840 --> 00:42:49,040
Speaker 1: getting vulnerable and making an honest statement, especially having someone

714
00:42:49,040 --> 00:42:53,640
Speaker 1: like Christina Aguilera sing it. Did you write it for her? No,

715
00:42:54,520 --> 00:42:58,200
Speaker 1: I wrote the song for me, and she just happened

716
00:42:58,239 --> 00:43:02,719
Speaker 1: to be when I had finished writing it. She was

717
00:43:03,360 --> 00:43:07,160
Speaker 1: who came in through the doors. Never was intended for anybody,

718
00:43:07,400 --> 00:43:11,200
Speaker 1: and she asked me to sing it or play something.

719
00:43:12,000 --> 00:43:16,160
Speaker 1: When she came here, my studio was here. It's full

720
00:43:16,160 --> 00:43:19,880
Speaker 1: circle for me. I'm talking like fifteen years ago. Whatever

721
00:43:19,920 --> 00:43:24,560
Speaker 1: it was. She, you know, I had my piano and

722
00:43:24,600 --> 00:43:28,880
Speaker 1: she said, I'm nervous, and I wouldn't allow her posse

723
00:43:29,000 --> 00:43:33,400
Speaker 1: to come in or management. So that's a thing that

724
00:43:33,440 --> 00:43:36,880
Speaker 1: I have. I don't don't I don't need your friends

725
00:43:36,880 --> 00:43:39,800
Speaker 1: that hang out and distract, and I don't need managers

726
00:43:39,920 --> 00:43:42,040
Speaker 1: or labels to come in here and act like they

727
00:43:42,040 --> 00:43:45,120
Speaker 1: know what they're doing. So all that stuff is just

728
00:43:45,160 --> 00:43:49,880
Speaker 1: not allowed in here. So she came in and was nervous,

729
00:43:49,960 --> 00:43:52,239
Speaker 1: and she didn't have her group of people, and she's like,

730
00:43:52,320 --> 00:43:54,359
Speaker 1: can I love your voice? Do you think you could

731
00:43:54,400 --> 00:43:57,640
Speaker 1: play something to break the ice? And I'm like, all right, sure.

732
00:43:57,760 --> 00:44:01,839
Speaker 1: So I just happened. Beautiful was the new Fresh song

733
00:44:02,520 --> 00:44:05,680
Speaker 1: and I play that to her and she just instantly

734
00:44:05,760 --> 00:44:08,040
Speaker 1: was like, can you record that? I want it for

735
00:44:08,120 --> 00:44:11,279
Speaker 1: my album. And I was in shock. I'm like, she's

736
00:44:11,320 --> 00:44:15,080
Speaker 1: not a song for you. I don't feel beautiful. You

737
00:44:15,160 --> 00:44:19,440
Speaker 1: are beautiful. So I was like, let me hear you

738
00:44:19,480 --> 00:44:21,600
Speaker 1: sing it. So I had her come back like three

739
00:44:21,640 --> 00:44:26,839
Speaker 1: days later, and again by herself. Well no, this time

740
00:44:26,840 --> 00:44:29,680
Speaker 1: she asked if her friend, her friend, could come, and

741
00:44:29,719 --> 00:44:32,359
Speaker 1: I'm like, all right, no problem. Your friend could come

742
00:44:32,400 --> 00:44:35,080
Speaker 1: because he was driving her. I was like, okay, no problem.

743
00:44:35,520 --> 00:44:38,480
Speaker 1: So we go in that room and I had laid

744
00:44:38,520 --> 00:44:42,000
Speaker 1: down the piano I had given her the lyrics she

745
00:44:42,360 --> 00:44:45,240
Speaker 1: had I sent. I sent her a demo to practice

746
00:44:45,280 --> 00:44:51,680
Speaker 1: before she came. So I pushed record and literally, no kidding,

747
00:44:52,800 --> 00:44:59,080
Speaker 1: she you know, don't look at me, you know. And

748
00:44:59,120 --> 00:45:01,640
Speaker 1: as soon as I heard that, She's like telling her friend,

749
00:45:01,719 --> 00:45:03,800
Speaker 1: don't look at me, Like that's where that came from.

750
00:45:04,320 --> 00:45:05,759
Speaker 1: Oh he was in the room. Yeah, he was in

751
00:45:05,800 --> 00:45:08,000
Speaker 1: the room, and she said, don't look at me. And

752
00:45:08,040 --> 00:45:10,560
Speaker 1: I knew as soon as I heard that the song

753
00:45:10,640 --> 00:45:14,640
Speaker 1: was hers. It showed it just expressed so much vulnerability,

754
00:45:14,719 --> 00:45:18,799
Speaker 1: and I was like, Oh, she's insecure, just like me.

755
00:45:19,120 --> 00:45:21,960
Speaker 1: You know, she doesn't think she's beautiful, like a beautiful

756
00:45:21,960 --> 00:45:24,400
Speaker 1: person doesn't say something like that because the vulnerability in

757
00:45:24,440 --> 00:45:26,759
Speaker 1: her voice. So I knew right then I was going

758
00:45:26,800 --> 00:45:30,720
Speaker 1: to keep that that's the starting of the song and

759
00:45:31,280 --> 00:45:33,520
Speaker 1: that she was definitely the right person for it, and

760
00:45:33,560 --> 00:45:38,360
Speaker 1: that take is eighty percent the take, and I just

761
00:45:38,400 --> 00:45:41,759
Speaker 1: went back and punched in some flubs that she did.

762
00:45:43,360 --> 00:45:46,480
Speaker 1: She's such an acrobat with her voice. Did she want

763
00:45:46,520 --> 00:45:48,719
Speaker 1: to keep going back at it to make it? Oh? Yeah.

764
00:45:48,760 --> 00:45:51,320
Speaker 1: She begged me for seven months to re record the

765
00:45:51,400 --> 00:45:53,400
Speaker 1: vocals and I said no. She's like, but I know

766
00:45:53,520 --> 00:45:56,120
Speaker 1: it better. I'm like, exactly, that's what the problem is.

767
00:45:56,160 --> 00:46:02,760
Speaker 1: So right before we finalized went into mix, she's again begging.

768
00:46:02,800 --> 00:46:05,520
Speaker 1: We're at Conway Studios now and she's like, please let

769
00:46:05,560 --> 00:46:09,160
Speaker 1: me just re sing the vocal. I'm so unhappy with it.

770
00:46:09,160 --> 00:46:11,759
Speaker 1: It's and I said, I can't tell you. I'll give

771
00:46:11,760 --> 00:46:18,160
Speaker 1: you a shot. So literally, you hear the beautiful, simple

772
00:46:18,480 --> 00:46:22,320
Speaker 1: you know quartet, mind you, it's a quartet sixteen tracks

773
00:46:22,520 --> 00:46:26,760
Speaker 1: on that song. Sixteen tracks, that's all that was used

774
00:46:26,760 --> 00:46:30,160
Speaker 1: on that song. So you hear those quartet and then

775
00:46:30,200 --> 00:46:38,640
Speaker 1: she comes in with every day Lafe is wonderful, and

776
00:46:38,680 --> 00:46:43,279
Speaker 1: then I just pushed stop. She's all what, I'm like,

777
00:46:43,320 --> 00:46:47,319
Speaker 1: you're already ruining the fucking song, you know, and she like,

778
00:46:47,480 --> 00:46:50,080
Speaker 1: you're right, And then that was it. She she got it.

779
00:46:50,120 --> 00:46:51,800
Speaker 1: She's like, I'm never gonna beat that vocal. I'm like,

780
00:46:51,840 --> 00:46:57,080
Speaker 1: you know, you're not. Wow, So finally you know, I

781
00:46:57,160 --> 00:47:00,840
Speaker 1: won I mean, it's a classic, it will forever be

782
00:47:00,880 --> 00:47:03,919
Speaker 1: a classic song for hers. It's her most I mean,

783
00:47:03,920 --> 00:47:10,560
Speaker 1: it's her top song. Yeah, and it introduced a vulnerable Christina.

784
00:47:10,760 --> 00:47:16,279
Speaker 1: It introduced like, oh, maybe she isn't just what we

785
00:47:16,360 --> 00:47:20,120
Speaker 1: think she is, Maybe she just isn't orange tan, and

786
00:47:20,840 --> 00:47:25,760
Speaker 1: you know, a vocal acrobatic like. It brought an emotion,

787
00:47:26,840 --> 00:47:30,399
Speaker 1: a relatability all of a sudden, she is relatable. Yeah,

788
00:47:30,560 --> 00:47:34,040
Speaker 1: she was a prodigy, and prodigies often have trouble communicating,

789
00:47:34,200 --> 00:47:39,560
Speaker 1: So that song single handedly changed the way everybody looked

790
00:47:39,560 --> 00:47:42,200
Speaker 1: at her. Do you think as a producer and a

791
00:47:42,239 --> 00:47:45,480
Speaker 1: songwriter you relate better to female artists, or do you

792
00:47:45,480 --> 00:47:48,600
Speaker 1: think that that just is simply who you've worked with.

793
00:47:51,480 --> 00:47:54,359
Speaker 1: I'm where I'm at because it's by design. Again, the

794
00:47:54,480 --> 00:47:59,280
Speaker 1: universe is putting me in this position because obviously women

795
00:47:59,400 --> 00:48:04,120
Speaker 1: need me in this role because there are none. I

796
00:48:04,160 --> 00:48:08,000
Speaker 1: get a lot of times women being so relieved to

797
00:48:08,120 --> 00:48:11,000
Speaker 1: be working with a woman because they've never done that

798
00:48:11,080 --> 00:48:16,120
Speaker 1: before on the songwriting and production side. But I'm also tough,

799
00:48:18,000 --> 00:48:23,480
Speaker 1: so I can not fall into the we're not gonna

800
00:48:24,239 --> 00:48:30,400
Speaker 1: be bff and talk about shopping. I'm a strong woman

801
00:48:31,280 --> 00:48:35,000
Speaker 1: that is very focused on what it is that I

802
00:48:35,080 --> 00:48:39,200
Speaker 1: want to convey, and I'm quick at picking up people's

803
00:48:39,400 --> 00:48:43,080
Speaker 1: energy and what's going on with them. I feel like

804
00:48:43,520 --> 00:48:48,560
Speaker 1: it's awesome that somebody has me to come to because

805
00:48:49,200 --> 00:48:54,040
Speaker 1: I'm safer to be vulnerable. I mean, let's just face it.

806
00:48:54,040 --> 00:48:57,840
Speaker 1: It's not everywhere. And I'm not saying this about every guy,

807
00:48:57,960 --> 00:49:01,160
Speaker 1: but guys can be dicks in the studio. There's ego,

808
00:49:01,760 --> 00:49:03,840
Speaker 1: there's this whole I mean, I experienced it. Can't you

809
00:49:03,920 --> 00:49:07,920
Speaker 1: just be a singer? That happens still today? There's sexual

810
00:49:07,960 --> 00:49:12,320
Speaker 1: harassment there. Can I just come into this fucking studio

811
00:49:12,520 --> 00:49:16,160
Speaker 1: and just not be hit on you know what I mean,

812
00:49:16,560 --> 00:49:20,080
Speaker 1: is that stuff you had to put up with me? No? God, No,

813
00:49:20,120 --> 00:49:23,120
Speaker 1: people don't want to hit on me. I'm talking about

814
00:49:23,160 --> 00:49:26,080
Speaker 1: all the stories that I get from these women. It's

815
00:49:26,080 --> 00:49:29,640
Speaker 1: like it's a constant thing. This is happening fifteen years ago,

816
00:49:29,880 --> 00:49:33,680
Speaker 1: fifty years ago, and last week. Yeah, so when you

817
00:49:33,719 --> 00:49:35,600
Speaker 1: come work with me, you know, that's just not going

818
00:49:35,640 --> 00:49:39,000
Speaker 1: to happen. You're can come in and we're working. We're

819
00:49:39,000 --> 00:49:42,160
Speaker 1: going to get down and dirty, you know, with the

820
00:49:42,239 --> 00:49:47,200
Speaker 1: music and creating. It's safer. And then I have really

821
00:49:47,239 --> 00:49:50,640
Speaker 1: great information. And again, there's a lot of women that

822
00:49:50,800 --> 00:49:54,640
Speaker 1: like that strong male energy. I kind of have that.

823
00:49:54,800 --> 00:49:56,840
Speaker 1: So it's like you're getting the best of both worlds

824
00:49:56,880 --> 00:49:58,759
Speaker 1: in a sense, because I can be a dick if

825
00:49:58,760 --> 00:50:02,360
Speaker 1: you want me to. I'm sure you saw a piece

826
00:50:02,400 --> 00:50:06,840
Speaker 1: of that for me. And I mean, I'm not all

827
00:50:07,640 --> 00:50:11,319
Speaker 1: I'm not a soft person, but I can be. I'm

828
00:50:11,440 --> 00:50:14,400
Speaker 1: very genuine and I'm very real and I'm very honest.

829
00:50:14,840 --> 00:50:17,760
Speaker 1: Would the music business be better if there were more people,

830
00:50:18,680 --> 00:50:23,799
Speaker 1: if they were more female producers, more female songwriters. I

831
00:50:23,800 --> 00:50:28,200
Speaker 1: don't fucking know, man, I have no idea. I don't

832
00:50:28,239 --> 00:50:31,680
Speaker 1: think women. I'm only speaking about myself, and I don't

833
00:50:31,719 --> 00:50:36,560
Speaker 1: relate to either or to be quite honest, I'm Linda Perry.

834
00:50:36,960 --> 00:50:40,960
Speaker 1: I've always been Linda Perry, and however you want to

835
00:50:41,000 --> 00:50:44,040
Speaker 1: call that, I don't really care. But I just do

836
00:50:44,120 --> 00:50:47,879
Speaker 1: what I do. And I think the world would be

837
00:50:47,880 --> 00:50:50,800
Speaker 1: better and the music business would be better if people

838
00:50:50,880 --> 00:50:54,480
Speaker 1: did what they really truly wanted to do and not

839
00:50:54,600 --> 00:50:58,399
Speaker 1: focus on what it's going to impress people, or how

840
00:50:58,440 --> 00:51:01,440
Speaker 1: many records they can sell or how many followers they

841
00:51:01,440 --> 00:51:05,279
Speaker 1: can gain. If we just did things from a completely

842
00:51:05,320 --> 00:51:10,200
Speaker 1: different intention that had to benefit other people. How can

843
00:51:10,200 --> 00:51:12,600
Speaker 1: I write a song today that's going to benefit somebody?

844
00:51:13,680 --> 00:51:17,319
Speaker 1: What can I do today that's going to help somebody?

845
00:51:17,560 --> 00:51:21,439
Speaker 1: How can I help the community? If we had that,

846
00:51:22,680 --> 00:51:25,400
Speaker 1: then we would know that in order to help the

847
00:51:25,520 --> 00:51:28,799
Speaker 1: music community and the songwriters, all the fame and all

848
00:51:28,920 --> 00:51:31,960
Speaker 1: those things, we need to start having some songwriters that

849
00:51:32,040 --> 00:51:35,560
Speaker 1: are writing some fucking valid songs that's going to boost

850
00:51:35,600 --> 00:51:39,400
Speaker 1: up the community. We're going to have to kind of

851
00:51:39,560 --> 00:51:44,120
Speaker 1: take some risks here and decide maybe, just maybe, what

852
00:51:45,080 --> 00:51:49,280
Speaker 1: if everybody's decided to stop streaming. What if everybody decided,

853
00:51:49,320 --> 00:51:52,480
Speaker 1: you know what, fuck this my next big record? What

854
00:51:52,560 --> 00:51:58,640
Speaker 1: if Adele, Miley, Cyrus, Taylor Swift and whoever, Sean Mendez

855
00:51:58,760 --> 00:52:01,320
Speaker 1: all decided that they're next album was going to be

856
00:52:01,400 --> 00:52:04,560
Speaker 1: on vinyl and only on vinyl, and they were going

857
00:52:04,640 --> 00:52:08,160
Speaker 1: to sell it at mom pastores across the world and

858
00:52:08,280 --> 00:52:11,480
Speaker 1: targets and wherever else, and they were not going to

859
00:52:11,520 --> 00:52:15,960
Speaker 1: release a song on the DSPs. You know what that

860
00:52:16,000 --> 00:52:19,400
Speaker 1: would do. It would fuck some shit up, man. But

861
00:52:19,480 --> 00:52:22,120
Speaker 1: you know what, it won't happen because they'd be afraid

862
00:52:22,160 --> 00:52:25,160
Speaker 1: to lose their fan base. Their labels won't let them

863
00:52:25,160 --> 00:52:28,279
Speaker 1: do it because they're afraid to lose money. Everybody is

864
00:52:28,360 --> 00:52:33,359
Speaker 1: operating on fear of losing something, and we can't. We

865
00:52:33,440 --> 00:52:37,480
Speaker 1: can't live that way. We can't have a successful business

866
00:52:37,480 --> 00:52:41,880
Speaker 1: when we're all afraid to actually expand the business and

867
00:52:41,920 --> 00:52:45,600
Speaker 1: grow it. Do you think people it wouldn't make people

868
00:52:45,600 --> 00:52:50,839
Speaker 1: listen to the music more well. Being the micromanager and

869
00:52:50,880 --> 00:52:54,120
Speaker 1: the producer I am, I would make sure that somehow

870
00:52:54,200 --> 00:52:56,880
Speaker 1: I would have hands on it, that it'd have to

871
00:52:56,920 --> 00:52:59,600
Speaker 1: go through my ears first, because the first and foremost

872
00:52:59,600 --> 00:53:01,840
Speaker 1: most important thing she got to make an album that

873
00:53:01,960 --> 00:53:05,680
Speaker 1: is actually good. You can't just put two good songs

874
00:53:05,719 --> 00:53:10,640
Speaker 1: on and then a bunch of filler, like I'm talking

875
00:53:10,640 --> 00:53:13,680
Speaker 1: about some old school shit. Let's get back to the

876
00:53:13,719 --> 00:53:17,600
Speaker 1: album where it was eleven ten eleven songs and they

877
00:53:17,600 --> 00:53:21,400
Speaker 1: were great. There was obvious hits, and there's great, great

878
00:53:21,520 --> 00:53:24,360
Speaker 1: album tracks that supported those hits, because that's what we're

879
00:53:24,400 --> 00:53:27,360
Speaker 1: missing right now. You're not forced to buy an album. No,

880
00:53:28,239 --> 00:53:31,080
Speaker 1: you could just buy the single. You put together your

881
00:53:31,080 --> 00:53:35,520
Speaker 1: own compilations. No one's listening to albums, and then but

882
00:53:35,560 --> 00:53:38,040
Speaker 1: then everybody says, well, albums don't sell. But then Adele

883
00:53:38,080 --> 00:53:40,239
Speaker 1: will put out an album and it like breaks every

884
00:53:40,280 --> 00:53:45,279
Speaker 1: record out there. Yeah, why is that? Hum Are think

885
00:53:45,280 --> 00:53:49,080
Speaker 1: good albums? Huh? Adele's record, Well, this last one to

886
00:53:49,120 --> 00:53:50,680
Speaker 1: me wasn't as good as the last one. But yeah,

887
00:53:50,719 --> 00:53:54,120
Speaker 1: I think she makes great records. And she's not playing

888
00:53:54,160 --> 00:53:57,719
Speaker 1: the same game either. You don't see Adele splashed all

889
00:53:57,760 --> 00:54:01,239
Speaker 1: over the place. She's just doing her thing and when

890
00:54:01,239 --> 00:54:05,440
Speaker 1: it shows up, it's quality, it's classy, and it's you

891
00:54:05,520 --> 00:54:09,719
Speaker 1: own it. But everybody's afraid, oh I don't want to

892
00:54:09,719 --> 00:54:13,840
Speaker 1: be irrelevant, you know, or oh I gotta have like

893
00:54:14,080 --> 00:54:16,399
Speaker 1: record companies? Are you got to have a single out

894
00:54:16,480 --> 00:54:22,400
Speaker 1: every week? Why? Because you don't want to work one.

895
00:54:22,719 --> 00:54:24,920
Speaker 1: We're just putting it out there until it hits, so

896
00:54:25,000 --> 00:54:28,160
Speaker 1: everybody else does all the work for us. Labels aren't

897
00:54:28,160 --> 00:54:30,600
Speaker 1: even a label anymore. That's why they're going down. And

898
00:54:30,680 --> 00:54:33,520
Speaker 1: managers don't even manage. Is this why, I mean you've

899
00:54:33,520 --> 00:54:36,359
Speaker 1: started your own publishing. Yeah, that's why we are here.

900
00:54:36,800 --> 00:54:38,960
Speaker 1: Is really important to me. We are here as h

901
00:54:39,080 --> 00:54:43,560
Speaker 1: Ear and my partner Carry Brown. We manage, we're a

902
00:54:43,640 --> 00:54:46,040
Speaker 1: label and we're a publishing company and now apparently we

903
00:54:46,120 --> 00:54:50,200
Speaker 1: run events as well too. But we are great, like

904
00:54:50,239 --> 00:54:53,120
Speaker 1: I'm a great manager, carries a great manager because we're

905
00:54:53,200 --> 00:54:56,600
Speaker 1: in it. We are with our artists. Were what is

906
00:54:56,640 --> 00:55:00,319
Speaker 1: your dream? Oh god, that sounds so complicated. Okay, we're

907
00:55:00,320 --> 00:55:02,240
Speaker 1: gonna make it happen, you know. It's like there's nothing

908
00:55:02,320 --> 00:55:06,200
Speaker 1: impossible and building careers. We have an artist named Dorothy.

909
00:55:06,960 --> 00:55:08,920
Speaker 1: She's on rock Nation. Now. If it were up to

910
00:55:09,000 --> 00:55:11,359
Speaker 1: rock Nation, her album would be done. She'd have all

911
00:55:11,400 --> 00:55:14,160
Speaker 1: her songs singled out in the first month, you know,

912
00:55:14,440 --> 00:55:16,200
Speaker 1: and it would be like we're like, uh uh, that's

913
00:55:16,200 --> 00:55:18,960
Speaker 1: not gonna happen. We're on two years. Her album has

914
00:55:19,000 --> 00:55:20,799
Speaker 1: been out and we're just about to go into her

915
00:55:20,840 --> 00:55:26,040
Speaker 1: third single, Like that's unheard of. And she started two

916
00:55:26,160 --> 00:55:29,880
Speaker 1: years ago playing to three hundred people, and now she's

917
00:55:30,120 --> 00:55:33,760
Speaker 1: been opening for Greta Van Fleet, she's playing Woodstock, she's

918
00:55:34,000 --> 00:55:36,919
Speaker 1: selling out her own, you know, fifteen hundred to three

919
00:55:36,960 --> 00:55:40,040
Speaker 1: thousand over the course of two years. Because we just

920
00:55:40,120 --> 00:55:44,080
Speaker 1: kept looping her around. I was calling radio stations myself.

921
00:55:44,640 --> 00:55:47,960
Speaker 1: They're like, holy fuck, why is Linda Perry calling me?

922
00:55:48,040 --> 00:55:52,239
Speaker 1: Because Dorothy's I manage Dorothy. They're like, holy shit, this

923
00:55:52,360 --> 00:55:55,400
Speaker 1: is so cool, you know whatever, and well, what do

924
00:55:55,440 --> 00:55:57,120
Speaker 1: you need? I'm like, I need you to play Dorothy

925
00:55:58,640 --> 00:56:02,040
Speaker 1: just once. It's all asking player once. If you don't

926
00:56:02,120 --> 00:56:05,440
Speaker 1: like it, great, the listeners don't like it, fine, but

927
00:56:05,480 --> 00:56:07,480
Speaker 1: if they do, then I want you to play her

928
00:56:07,520 --> 00:56:11,279
Speaker 1: ten times and then heavy rotation. And that's kind of

929
00:56:11,320 --> 00:56:13,799
Speaker 1: where we're at. And so we have artists of all

930
00:56:13,840 --> 00:56:17,600
Speaker 1: different calibers. And we have an artist named Willa that's fourteen.

931
00:56:17,680 --> 00:56:19,759
Speaker 1: I found her when she's twelve. I've been developing and

932
00:56:19,840 --> 00:56:23,080
Speaker 1: just nurturing her and making sure she's okay. And she's

933
00:56:23,200 --> 00:56:27,160
Speaker 1: incredibly prolific and extremely talented kid. And she came to

934
00:56:27,200 --> 00:56:29,879
Speaker 1: me finally and just said I'm ready, I like ready

935
00:56:29,960 --> 00:56:31,560
Speaker 1: for what She's like I want you to put me

936
00:56:31,600 --> 00:56:35,080
Speaker 1: out there, and I'm like, like my little baby, you know,

937
00:56:35,120 --> 00:56:38,120
Speaker 1: I'm afraid. But then I wasn't afraid because we're her

938
00:56:38,160 --> 00:56:41,520
Speaker 1: label and we're her manager. Oh I'm not afraid. We

939
00:56:41,640 --> 00:56:44,279
Speaker 1: got this. Yeah, if it was somebody else, I would

940
00:56:44,280 --> 00:56:47,839
Speaker 1: be afraid. That's a lot of work, though. You don't

941
00:56:47,840 --> 00:56:49,680
Speaker 1: want to just keep producing and writing, you want to

942
00:56:49,680 --> 00:56:52,480
Speaker 1: do all that, Like, that's a busy life. I'm a

943
00:56:52,560 --> 00:56:56,640
Speaker 1: very busy person. But do do you work well under

944
00:56:56,640 --> 00:57:00,879
Speaker 1: those circumstances? Everything's kind fortunately I do. I'm really good

945
00:57:00,960 --> 00:57:05,319
Speaker 1: under stress. And it brings unhappiness at times, you know,

946
00:57:05,360 --> 00:57:09,640
Speaker 1: because you're just like constantly working. There's never a break.

947
00:57:10,000 --> 00:57:13,719
Speaker 1: But it helps me grow, you know, as a human being,

948
00:57:13,880 --> 00:57:17,840
Speaker 1: because it's just like it's so challenging to operate with

949
00:57:17,960 --> 00:57:22,480
Speaker 1: no sleep and no rest and constant stress. You really

950
00:57:22,520 --> 00:57:24,800
Speaker 1: are challenged with who you are as a person and

951
00:57:24,840 --> 00:57:27,720
Speaker 1: how you are to other people. And I have a

952
00:57:27,800 --> 00:57:31,800
Speaker 1: very short temper. But I'm great. I really do think

953
00:57:31,840 --> 00:57:34,600
Speaker 1: I'm a really good human being. Do I have a

954
00:57:34,640 --> 00:57:36,720
Speaker 1: lot of work? Yeah, I have a lot of work

955
00:57:36,760 --> 00:57:39,680
Speaker 1: to do on myself, and I have a lot to

956
00:57:39,840 --> 00:57:47,280
Speaker 1: offer you him her, everyone because I'm vulnerable and I'm honest,

957
00:57:47,480 --> 00:57:50,160
Speaker 1: and I'm not afraid to look bad. I'm not afraid

958
00:57:50,160 --> 00:57:53,320
Speaker 1: to look good. I'm not afraid to be ugly or pretty,

959
00:57:54,200 --> 00:57:58,640
Speaker 1: and i feel like I'm really happy with how I'm

960
00:57:59,080 --> 00:58:08,840
Speaker 1: turning out. As a to hear more about Linda Perry,

961
00:58:09,040 --> 00:58:12,440
Speaker 1: including her full collaboration with Dolly Parton and a playlist

962
00:58:12,440 --> 00:58:17,680
Speaker 1: of her greatest hits, visit Broken Record podcast dot com.

963
00:58:17,800 --> 00:58:21,160
Speaker 1: Broken Record is produced by Justin Richmond and Jason Gambrel,

964
00:58:21,360 --> 00:58:25,240
Speaker 1: with help from Neil LaBelle, Jacob Smith, Julia Barton, and

965
00:58:25,320 --> 00:58:29,600
Speaker 1: Jacob Weisberg. Special thanks to my co hosts Rick Rubin

966
00:58:29,720 --> 00:58:34,400
Speaker 1: and Malcolm Gladwell. Our Broken Record theme music is by

967
00:58:34,440 --> 00:58:37,680
Speaker 1: the hip hop phenom Kenny Beats. Check out his new

968
00:58:37,720 --> 00:58:42,200
Speaker 1: album Anger Management with rapper Rico Nasty. Wherever you get

969
00:58:42,240 --> 00:58:45,800
Speaker 1: your music for Pushkin Industries, I'm Bruce Heaven