1 00:00:01,280 --> 00:00:04,320 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff You Missed in History Class, a production 2 00:00:04,400 --> 00:00:13,960 Speaker 1: of I Heart Radio, Hello and Happy Friday. I'm Tracy V. 3 00:00:14,080 --> 00:00:17,840 Speaker 1: Wilson and I'm Holly Fry. We talked about Paul Robeson 4 00:00:18,120 --> 00:00:23,160 Speaker 1: and the Peak Skill riots this week. It was back 5 00:00:23,280 --> 00:00:27,240 Speaker 1: before the pandemic when I was on another separate podcast 6 00:00:27,320 --> 00:00:30,680 Speaker 1: called This Day in History Class. That's been hanging out 7 00:00:30,720 --> 00:00:34,159 Speaker 1: on my list for a long time before being propelled 8 00:00:34,240 --> 00:00:36,199 Speaker 1: up to the top by it coming up in the 9 00:00:36,360 --> 00:00:40,080 Speaker 1: Eugene Jacques Bullard episode. I read that whole a c 10 00:00:40,320 --> 00:00:46,279 Speaker 1: LU report and the paragraph that we read in the 11 00:00:46,320 --> 00:00:52,040 Speaker 1: show just turned my stomach because I was like, this 12 00:00:52,400 --> 00:00:55,480 Speaker 1: is a paragraph that could be in news reporting today 13 00:00:55,680 --> 00:01:01,120 Speaker 1: about January six. It sounded so similar two things people 14 00:01:01,160 --> 00:01:05,720 Speaker 1: have also said about that, And like I had just 15 00:01:05,880 --> 00:01:09,520 Speaker 1: read that part and it was farmers Market day where 16 00:01:09,560 --> 00:01:11,920 Speaker 1: we live, and I was like walking to the Farmer's 17 00:01:12,000 --> 00:01:15,240 Speaker 1: Market with Patrick being very quiet, and he was like, 18 00:01:15,280 --> 00:01:18,440 Speaker 1: what are you thinking about? And I It's like, it's 19 00:01:18,600 --> 00:01:20,960 Speaker 1: very nauseating thing that I read in an a c 20 00:01:21,200 --> 00:01:26,560 Speaker 1: L report that just reminded me of other things still happening. 21 00:01:28,880 --> 00:01:31,720 Speaker 1: That's like the depressing thing about studying history. We just 22 00:01:31,760 --> 00:01:36,680 Speaker 1: see the same stuff go on over and over and over. Yeah. Yeah, 23 00:01:36,720 --> 00:01:40,360 Speaker 1: I feel so conflicted about Paul Robeson. Um, he was 24 00:01:40,959 --> 00:01:45,800 Speaker 1: robbed of his career, uh in a way that was 25 00:01:45,920 --> 00:01:51,800 Speaker 1: grossly unfair and racist and sort of selectively targeted him 26 00:01:51,840 --> 00:01:56,120 Speaker 1: among all the performers that were there. Um. So much 27 00:01:56,160 --> 00:01:58,840 Speaker 1: of the criticisms that he made of the United States 28 00:01:58,840 --> 00:02:01,360 Speaker 1: and of US foreign pole see and of racism in 29 00:02:01,400 --> 00:02:05,320 Speaker 1: the United States was all totally valid, and in some 30 00:02:05,400 --> 00:02:09,880 Speaker 1: cases saying it a lot more loudly and a lot 31 00:02:09,919 --> 00:02:15,760 Speaker 1: more publicly than other people were doing at the time. Um. 32 00:02:15,800 --> 00:02:18,800 Speaker 1: But then we get into his effusive praise of Joseph Stalin, 33 00:02:18,840 --> 00:02:22,280 Speaker 1: and I'm like, what was going on here? Like, right, 34 00:02:22,400 --> 00:02:26,960 Speaker 1: it undermines his entire message, Like, and there's so many 35 00:02:27,040 --> 00:02:29,440 Speaker 1: different and it's all very speculative because like we just 36 00:02:29,480 --> 00:02:33,240 Speaker 1: don't have his personal thoughts on it, noted anywhere, and 37 00:02:33,280 --> 00:02:36,160 Speaker 1: I can just imagine so many different scenarios, but they're 38 00:02:36,160 --> 00:02:38,920 Speaker 1: all my imagination. Right. Some of the stuff that he 39 00:02:39,000 --> 00:02:43,000 Speaker 1: was saying in that House an American Activities Committee questioning, 40 00:02:43,560 --> 00:02:48,320 Speaker 1: he was just clearly not participating, which honestly I applaud 41 00:02:48,400 --> 00:02:55,200 Speaker 1: him for, right. Uh. But then like I'm like, were 42 00:02:55,200 --> 00:02:57,280 Speaker 1: you just not going to participate when it came to 43 00:02:57,360 --> 00:03:01,280 Speaker 1: things outside of that context when they're like there was 44 00:03:01,320 --> 00:03:05,200 Speaker 1: no criticism of various atrocities that had happened in the 45 00:03:05,240 --> 00:03:07,800 Speaker 1: Soviet Union, And I just I don't really know. And 46 00:03:08,600 --> 00:03:14,360 Speaker 1: a lot of times that that, you know, like Rutgers 47 00:03:14,400 --> 00:03:18,239 Speaker 1: has wanted to like more recognize his presence at the 48 00:03:18,360 --> 00:03:22,080 Speaker 1: university and like how great of an athlete and a 49 00:03:22,120 --> 00:03:24,680 Speaker 1: student and all of that he was, And sometimes they 50 00:03:24,680 --> 00:03:27,119 Speaker 1: will be criticized of like you kind of skipped over 51 00:03:27,200 --> 00:03:33,240 Speaker 1: the part about like the unwavering support of authoritarian dictators, 52 00:03:33,400 --> 00:03:35,400 Speaker 1: which doesn't line up with a lot of the other 53 00:03:35,440 --> 00:03:39,320 Speaker 1: stuff you're saying. And I just I have trouble puzzling 54 00:03:39,320 --> 00:03:45,240 Speaker 1: it all out. Um. Yeah, I mean we can certainly theorize, 55 00:03:46,000 --> 00:03:48,640 Speaker 1: which is easy to do. I mean, he, you know, 56 00:03:49,120 --> 00:03:52,480 Speaker 1: in saying that he felt like he had been treated 57 00:03:52,560 --> 00:03:56,640 Speaker 1: more equally when he was there, being really the like 58 00:03:57,360 --> 00:04:01,480 Speaker 1: root of all of that kind of speaks volumes right, 59 00:04:01,520 --> 00:04:05,280 Speaker 1: Like Yeah, in that regard, I could see where someone 60 00:04:05,360 --> 00:04:08,000 Speaker 1: who was so dismayed at at what was going on 61 00:04:08,120 --> 00:04:12,280 Speaker 1: back home either kind of having blinders about a thing 62 00:04:13,080 --> 00:04:16,960 Speaker 1: or being so bought in that like your brain switches 63 00:04:17,000 --> 00:04:20,320 Speaker 1: off the opportunity to really criticize it. Yeah, and he 64 00:04:20,440 --> 00:04:22,440 Speaker 1: was for sure not the only person to visit the 65 00:04:22,440 --> 00:04:27,159 Speaker 1: Soviet Union in the thirties and sort of see what 66 00:04:27,360 --> 00:04:31,680 Speaker 1: the goal was, like what the like this idea that 67 00:04:31,800 --> 00:04:36,720 Speaker 1: things were going to be more equitable, um and and 68 00:04:36,800 --> 00:04:42,240 Speaker 1: really coming away with the what the ideal was. And 69 00:04:42,279 --> 00:04:46,760 Speaker 1: then later on, as like the execution of that idea 70 00:04:47,279 --> 00:04:50,880 Speaker 1: became in some ways horrifying, had to kind of go 71 00:04:50,960 --> 00:04:54,160 Speaker 1: back and be like, oh, I I supported this earlier 72 00:04:54,200 --> 00:05:00,520 Speaker 1: and now I have to really like revise my opinions. Um. 73 00:05:00,560 --> 00:05:04,720 Speaker 1: And so yeah, there's there are some like very lengthy 74 00:05:04,720 --> 00:05:08,800 Speaker 1: biographies of him that I did not get the opportunity 75 00:05:08,839 --> 00:05:13,400 Speaker 1: to read for this because there's a finite amount of time. Uh, 76 00:05:13,400 --> 00:05:15,919 Speaker 1: And people have sort of come to different conclusions about 77 00:05:15,960 --> 00:05:19,520 Speaker 1: what what they think what they think his thought process 78 00:05:19,640 --> 00:05:22,599 Speaker 1: or motivations were, and they don't always agree with each other. 79 00:05:23,520 --> 00:05:27,840 Speaker 1: Um and will never know because we can't ask him. Yeah. Yeah, 80 00:05:27,880 --> 00:05:31,159 Speaker 1: and just did not leave a lot of introspective writing 81 00:05:31,279 --> 00:05:33,960 Speaker 1: on that subject. I mean a lot of publicly facing 82 00:05:34,040 --> 00:05:36,240 Speaker 1: writing of things that he published, but not so much 83 00:05:36,240 --> 00:05:42,480 Speaker 1: as his reflective inward thoughts on things. Yeah. Yeah, on 84 00:05:42,560 --> 00:05:47,520 Speaker 1: the upside, it's fun to get to kind of call 85 00:05:47,600 --> 00:05:52,520 Speaker 1: out Pete Seeger's progressive activism because I think people can 86 00:05:52,560 --> 00:05:56,120 Speaker 1: forget sometimes, you know, as he's become like, you know, 87 00:05:56,320 --> 00:06:00,680 Speaker 1: that oldies musician, he was really like, you're hitting a 88 00:06:00,720 --> 00:06:05,040 Speaker 1: lot of stuff. Yeah. Um, I occasionally will think about 89 00:06:05,080 --> 00:06:09,560 Speaker 1: doing an episode on pizzagre Um because like, there was 90 00:06:09,600 --> 00:06:10,920 Speaker 1: a lot of stuff that he did that I think 91 00:06:11,000 --> 00:06:13,120 Speaker 1: was really cool, and then there was also stuff that 92 00:06:13,120 --> 00:06:16,839 Speaker 1: he did that I think was really problematic. And yeah, 93 00:06:16,880 --> 00:06:20,520 Speaker 1: that's one of the reasons that like that's never like 94 00:06:20,640 --> 00:06:23,200 Speaker 1: he's never really been formally on my short list of 95 00:06:23,240 --> 00:06:27,640 Speaker 1: topics to cover, because, um, I just know going in 96 00:06:27,760 --> 00:06:30,200 Speaker 1: that there's going to be so much that's gonna I'm 97 00:06:30,200 --> 00:06:33,600 Speaker 1: gonna have similarly conflicted feelings on it. Well, that's kind 98 00:06:33,600 --> 00:06:37,200 Speaker 1: of the danger of like viewing anyone as a hero 99 00:06:37,600 --> 00:06:41,320 Speaker 1: or any organization as a hit. Right, There's nothing is 100 00:06:41,360 --> 00:06:46,520 Speaker 1: as pure and clean and one sided and simple as 101 00:06:46,560 --> 00:06:50,200 Speaker 1: we think. There's always messiness because we're humans. Yeah, Pizza 102 00:06:50,200 --> 00:06:52,520 Speaker 1: Here did not live far from peak skill. It was 103 00:06:52,560 --> 00:06:56,159 Speaker 1: only like fifteen or twenty miles away. One of the 104 00:06:56,160 --> 00:06:58,800 Speaker 1: things we talked about was leaving the concert, like he 105 00:06:58,880 --> 00:07:01,719 Speaker 1: needed to turn in direction to go to his house 106 00:07:02,520 --> 00:07:05,720 Speaker 1: and the police would not let him go that way 107 00:07:05,800 --> 00:07:08,480 Speaker 1: because they were funneling everybody during this It's kind of 108 00:07:08,480 --> 00:07:16,760 Speaker 1: gauntlet of rock throwing men. That's scary. Yeah, yeah, no 109 00:07:16,800 --> 00:07:19,920 Speaker 1: way to get out of it. Humans and their ability 110 00:07:19,960 --> 00:07:25,120 Speaker 1: to hate others is never I should be jaded to it, 111 00:07:25,200 --> 00:07:28,000 Speaker 1: and I never am. Yeah, I was like, how how 112 00:07:28,040 --> 00:07:29,560 Speaker 1: did you go home at the end of that night 113 00:07:29,560 --> 00:07:31,960 Speaker 1: and go like, m I'm gonna sleep great knowing I 114 00:07:32,000 --> 00:07:37,160 Speaker 1: threw rocks at people who could not defend themselves. Yeah. Yeah, 115 00:07:37,480 --> 00:07:44,000 Speaker 1: So anyway, on that happy note, Fortunately, I'm n sure 116 00:07:45,000 --> 00:07:48,440 Speaker 1: that this is gonna be a Monday episode. Um, and 117 00:07:48,480 --> 00:07:50,680 Speaker 1: we put our behind the scenes in the same order 118 00:07:50,720 --> 00:07:53,720 Speaker 1: of the episodes came out, So hopefully we're gonna have 119 00:07:53,760 --> 00:07:56,760 Speaker 1: a little musical transition and an ad break and then 120 00:07:56,800 --> 00:08:00,480 Speaker 1: maybe something happier or something HALLOWEENI I act really think 121 00:08:00,560 --> 00:08:04,600 Speaker 1: might be. What's what's gonna be discussed next Bump Bump Bump, 122 00:08:04,920 --> 00:08:20,720 Speaker 1: The Magic of Halloween Time Tracy. We talked about Johann 123 00:08:20,760 --> 00:08:24,200 Speaker 1: George Schreff for this week. Yep, we're kicking off our 124 00:08:24,240 --> 00:08:28,000 Speaker 1: Halloween Fund, which I always love. He's an interesting on 125 00:08:28,200 --> 00:08:31,360 Speaker 1: ramp because I think most people recognize at this point 126 00:08:31,400 --> 00:08:34,120 Speaker 1: that he was making it up, um, But it is 127 00:08:34,120 --> 00:08:38,040 Speaker 1: a fascinating to me. It's a fascinating look at um 128 00:08:38,240 --> 00:08:42,080 Speaker 1: global mentality at the time. Right. The one thing we 129 00:08:42,120 --> 00:08:43,800 Speaker 1: didn't talk about. There are a few things we didn't 130 00:08:43,800 --> 00:08:48,800 Speaker 1: talk about. One, he was only thirty six when he died. Um. 131 00:08:48,840 --> 00:08:50,800 Speaker 1: I mean this really was a very fast right. Like 132 00:08:50,840 --> 00:08:54,160 Speaker 1: he moved to Leipzig in sixty one, he would have 133 00:08:54,160 --> 00:08:59,839 Speaker 1: been still quite young at that point. He got married, right, 134 00:09:00,040 --> 00:09:02,080 Speaker 1: and and then you know he did this like I'm 135 00:09:02,080 --> 00:09:05,480 Speaker 1: gonna run my little wine bar and my coffee house, 136 00:09:05,520 --> 00:09:09,840 Speaker 1: and then suddenly he was like and mystical arts. Um. 137 00:09:09,880 --> 00:09:12,120 Speaker 1: And that period of his life is really just a 138 00:09:12,120 --> 00:09:15,120 Speaker 1: couple of years long, um. And it you know, he 139 00:09:15,200 --> 00:09:18,440 Speaker 1: burns out rather spectacularly. I want to come back to 140 00:09:18,520 --> 00:09:20,839 Speaker 1: that and why he might have burned out so spectacularly 141 00:09:20,840 --> 00:09:22,920 Speaker 1: and so quickly. But the thing that we did not 142 00:09:23,040 --> 00:09:25,720 Speaker 1: talk about we mentioned you know, this follows on the 143 00:09:25,760 --> 00:09:28,319 Speaker 1: Seven Years War and all of that conflict. But was 144 00:09:28,360 --> 00:09:30,960 Speaker 1: fascinating to me is that all of this is also 145 00:09:31,040 --> 00:09:34,720 Speaker 1: going on at the same time that the colonies in 146 00:09:34,840 --> 00:09:38,840 Speaker 1: North America are about to really really you know, that 147 00:09:38,880 --> 00:09:43,200 Speaker 1: are digging in on their fight with England. Um. It 148 00:09:43,360 --> 00:09:46,520 Speaker 1: just it's a bigger indicator. And that's of course related 149 00:09:46,559 --> 00:09:48,360 Speaker 1: to the seven years ward, which we talked about, like 150 00:09:48,400 --> 00:09:51,120 Speaker 1: both England and France trying to claim that they owned 151 00:09:51,120 --> 00:09:54,640 Speaker 1: places that frankly already had people on them. Um, and 152 00:09:54,679 --> 00:09:58,200 Speaker 1: that whole problem. But this is a time when the 153 00:09:58,400 --> 00:10:02,400 Speaker 1: entire world, as people in Europe knew, it was just 154 00:10:03,240 --> 00:10:05,400 Speaker 1: there was nothing they could predict. I think they probably 155 00:10:05,440 --> 00:10:08,160 Speaker 1: felt like right, so it is sort of natural. Those 156 00:10:08,200 --> 00:10:12,720 Speaker 1: are the moments when mysticism becomes very appealing to learn 157 00:10:12,760 --> 00:10:16,320 Speaker 1: troups of people. Um, of course we don't know anything, 158 00:10:16,360 --> 00:10:21,199 Speaker 1: but if I can learn mystical things, I'll know something. Um. 159 00:10:21,240 --> 00:10:23,520 Speaker 1: There's like a weird comfort in it, and I think 160 00:10:23,559 --> 00:10:26,720 Speaker 1: that's one of the things that that really does make 161 00:10:26,800 --> 00:10:29,440 Speaker 1: things like this happened kind of in those little clumps. 162 00:10:30,160 --> 00:10:34,720 Speaker 1: Going back to him blazing out rather quickly, we talked 163 00:10:34,760 --> 00:10:38,560 Speaker 1: a little bit about him using intoxicants on his followers 164 00:10:39,480 --> 00:10:44,160 Speaker 1: and one of the theories that some people have put 165 00:10:44,240 --> 00:10:46,800 Speaker 1: forth and again, at this point, it's all theory. It's 166 00:10:46,800 --> 00:10:48,800 Speaker 1: not like we can dig him up and do a 167 00:10:48,880 --> 00:10:52,480 Speaker 1: talk screening. I never saw anything listing even where he 168 00:10:52,520 --> 00:10:54,640 Speaker 1: would be laid to rest, like, I don't know if 169 00:10:54,640 --> 00:10:58,040 Speaker 1: people know, um they might. But in any case, one 170 00:10:58,040 --> 00:11:01,000 Speaker 1: of the things that came up that someone put forward 171 00:11:01,000 --> 00:11:04,240 Speaker 1: that I thought was really interesting was the idea that 172 00:11:04,280 --> 00:11:09,480 Speaker 1: if he was also potentially using intoxicants in the midst 173 00:11:09,600 --> 00:11:13,640 Speaker 1: that he was projecting on, or just if there was 174 00:11:13,720 --> 00:11:17,440 Speaker 1: anything in the burning of those you know, lamps, his 175 00:11:17,520 --> 00:11:20,760 Speaker 1: magic lantern candles or whatever, he may have been slowly 176 00:11:20,800 --> 00:11:26,320 Speaker 1: poisoning himself and causing his own mental deterioration, um, and 177 00:11:26,360 --> 00:11:29,680 Speaker 1: how that might account for some of his like very 178 00:11:29,760 --> 00:11:34,560 Speaker 1: quickly shifting but progressively weirder behavior um right there at 179 00:11:34,559 --> 00:11:38,480 Speaker 1: the end. It's just an interesting way to consider it. Um. 180 00:11:38,520 --> 00:11:43,720 Speaker 1: I The idea of having a coup over a Freemason 181 00:11:43,920 --> 00:11:46,880 Speaker 1: lodge at gunpoint and people being like, yep, you're the 182 00:11:46,920 --> 00:11:50,440 Speaker 1: new leader now is very weird to me. Yeah. That 183 00:11:50,559 --> 00:11:53,920 Speaker 1: reminded me a little bit of our Alistair Crowley, Yes, 184 00:11:54,640 --> 00:11:57,240 Speaker 1: and the Battle of Life road as that was what 185 00:11:57,320 --> 00:12:00,240 Speaker 1: it was called. It reminded me a bit at that 186 00:12:00,960 --> 00:12:03,800 Speaker 1: from I think last Halloween is when that was that 187 00:12:03,840 --> 00:12:10,600 Speaker 1: seems correct. On a much later note, when I got 188 00:12:10,679 --> 00:12:13,880 Speaker 1: to the section where it was talking about him calling 189 00:12:13,920 --> 00:12:18,920 Speaker 1: forth Struancy and Brandt, I couldn't help but think of 190 00:12:18,920 --> 00:12:22,120 Speaker 1: one of my favorite shows of all times, Home Movies, 191 00:12:22,200 --> 00:12:23,560 Speaker 1: which I don't know if I've talked about on the 192 00:12:23,559 --> 00:12:26,640 Speaker 1: show Befour have I probably because I love it so much. 193 00:12:26,720 --> 00:12:30,480 Speaker 1: It's by uh Lauren Bouchard, who also did does Bob's 194 00:12:30,480 --> 00:12:34,719 Speaker 1: Burgers Now, which is wildly popular, well deservedly um, and 195 00:12:34,840 --> 00:12:38,560 Speaker 1: he did Dr Katz before that. But on Home Movies 196 00:12:38,600 --> 00:12:42,520 Speaker 1: there's one episode where Coach McGurk, who is this kind 197 00:12:42,559 --> 00:12:45,120 Speaker 1: of train wreck of a man who is a kid's 198 00:12:45,120 --> 00:12:49,160 Speaker 1: soccer coach but also just a mess in a lot 199 00:12:49,160 --> 00:12:52,560 Speaker 1: of delightful ways, and is voiced by John Benjamin, who 200 00:12:52,559 --> 00:12:54,560 Speaker 1: now does the voice of Bob and Archer. If you 201 00:12:54,559 --> 00:13:01,280 Speaker 1: watch that show, Um, he goes temporarily blind, he believes, 202 00:13:01,320 --> 00:13:05,440 Speaker 1: because if I'm remembering correctly, he gets um lazic surgery 203 00:13:05,520 --> 00:13:08,320 Speaker 1: by a not great lazy surgeon and it's only temporary, 204 00:13:08,320 --> 00:13:10,520 Speaker 1: but he goes blind, and he believes that his senses 205 00:13:10,559 --> 00:13:13,559 Speaker 1: have heightened in other ways and ends up faking that 206 00:13:13,559 --> 00:13:17,640 Speaker 1: he is psychic and can conjure celebrities, and so it's 207 00:13:17,679 --> 00:13:20,000 Speaker 1: like the very modern version of this where he like 208 00:13:20,400 --> 00:13:24,840 Speaker 1: starts doing bad impersonations of John Wayne and um, you 209 00:13:24,880 --> 00:13:29,680 Speaker 1: know other celebrities. And I just pictured then as I 210 00:13:29,720 --> 00:13:34,080 Speaker 1: was thinking about that and reading about SHREP for SHREMP 211 00:13:34,120 --> 00:13:39,240 Speaker 1: for doing really bad impersonations of struancy, and I was like, 212 00:13:39,280 --> 00:13:42,440 Speaker 1: that would be very funny. Yeah, it would make a 213 00:13:42,520 --> 00:13:46,920 Speaker 1: very good show that I would laugh and laugh at. Um. 214 00:13:47,000 --> 00:13:48,960 Speaker 1: This is the only tangentially related. But when I was 215 00:13:48,960 --> 00:13:52,640 Speaker 1: looking for artwork to go on our social media, I 216 00:13:52,720 --> 00:13:59,559 Speaker 1: found one picture that when I found it was labeled 217 00:14:00,240 --> 00:14:04,520 Speaker 1: as being this guy right doing one of his things. Um, 218 00:14:05,440 --> 00:14:10,280 Speaker 1: but it was there. There are stock photo places that 219 00:14:10,400 --> 00:14:13,040 Speaker 1: sometimes we'll have all of these what should clearly be 220 00:14:13,160 --> 00:14:17,160 Speaker 1: public domain photos or public domain images that they're like 221 00:14:17,200 --> 00:14:21,040 Speaker 1: trying to license for many um, and that was that 222 00:14:21,160 --> 00:14:22,920 Speaker 1: one of those places that that I had found this 223 00:14:23,080 --> 00:14:25,240 Speaker 1: photo labeled this way, and so I had been tracking 224 00:14:25,240 --> 00:14:27,080 Speaker 1: it drowned trying to be like, okay, what is the 225 00:14:27,120 --> 00:14:31,560 Speaker 1: original source on this, And it was actually an illustration 226 00:14:31,600 --> 00:14:35,680 Speaker 1: of Kelliostro, who we've also done an episode, and I 227 00:14:35,760 --> 00:14:40,000 Speaker 1: was like, wow, okay, interesting little circle there they are 228 00:14:40,080 --> 00:14:44,360 Speaker 1: sometimes invoked together. And I wonder if you saw the 229 00:14:44,440 --> 00:14:49,120 Speaker 1: same one I saw, which the caption made it seem 230 00:14:49,240 --> 00:14:52,640 Speaker 1: like a strange chain of events. The caption read something 231 00:14:52,680 --> 00:14:56,320 Speaker 1: in the one that I saw that was like Shrepford 232 00:14:56,360 --> 00:14:59,200 Speaker 1: calling forth spirits before he runs into the woods to 233 00:14:59,200 --> 00:15:02,440 Speaker 1: shoot himself, And like what was quite how that played out? 234 00:15:02,520 --> 00:15:06,160 Speaker 1: But I mean, I guess, but the way it was written, 235 00:15:06,160 --> 00:15:09,200 Speaker 1: it made it seem like he maybe got scared in 236 00:15:09,280 --> 00:15:11,880 Speaker 1: the thing and ran into it. But there's a much 237 00:15:12,000 --> 00:15:15,920 Speaker 1: longer chain of events, even on that that night that 238 00:15:15,960 --> 00:15:18,440 Speaker 1: he did die. Um, so that was a weird one. 239 00:15:18,560 --> 00:15:21,800 Speaker 1: And I as you said, it's very tricky to find 240 00:15:21,800 --> 00:15:24,920 Speaker 1: pictures of him. You can find some of the links, 241 00:15:25,040 --> 00:15:32,440 Speaker 1: but usually it's the older one. Um. Yeah, he's the 242 00:15:32,680 --> 00:15:35,920 Speaker 1: He's interesting. I you know, I love a good Charlatan story. 243 00:15:37,040 --> 00:15:41,800 Speaker 1: It's interesting to me. Here's where I find a kernel 244 00:15:42,080 --> 00:15:47,400 Speaker 1: of redemption for shrip for versus some other Charlatan's. It 245 00:15:47,560 --> 00:15:51,160 Speaker 1: seems like because he had called out the Minerva Lodge 246 00:15:51,360 --> 00:15:54,760 Speaker 1: as taking money from members, that he was not doing that. 247 00:15:55,000 --> 00:15:57,960 Speaker 1: But he was taking money from very rich people who 248 00:15:58,000 --> 00:16:01,280 Speaker 1: bought into his scheme. Right, And so I'm a little 249 00:16:01,440 --> 00:16:05,600 Speaker 1: less eager to judge him for being a charlatan because 250 00:16:05,600 --> 00:16:09,360 Speaker 1: he wasn't exploiting people who were poor and desperate. Generally, 251 00:16:09,440 --> 00:16:12,920 Speaker 1: to the best of my knowledge, that is a fine 252 00:16:13,040 --> 00:16:17,960 Speaker 1: line to walk and certainly granular distinction of morality, but 253 00:16:18,520 --> 00:16:23,440 Speaker 1: it makes his his weirdness a little easier to stomach. Um. 254 00:16:24,200 --> 00:16:28,320 Speaker 1: We have so much more fun Halloween coming now, that's 255 00:16:28,360 --> 00:16:31,040 Speaker 1: the best time of year. Yeah. The very next thing 256 00:16:31,040 --> 00:16:35,840 Speaker 1: we're going to record has some common themes with this one, 257 00:16:36,640 --> 00:16:39,920 Speaker 1: and then I have another one that's also a modern 258 00:16:39,960 --> 00:16:43,520 Speaker 1: ish spiritualism story that will probably dovetail on both of these, 259 00:16:44,080 --> 00:16:48,120 Speaker 1: among others. It's gonna be a fun month. If this 260 00:16:48,200 --> 00:16:50,160 Speaker 1: is your weekend coming up, we hope that it is 261 00:16:50,320 --> 00:16:52,680 Speaker 1: smooth as silk and that it is filled with whatever 262 00:16:52,760 --> 00:16:57,080 Speaker 1: level of Halloween themed revelry want. I'm gonna eat candy corn. 263 00:16:57,160 --> 00:17:00,240 Speaker 1: I know not everybody wants to, uh So I'll take years. 264 00:17:00,280 --> 00:17:02,280 Speaker 1: If you don't want it, that's just fine by me. 265 00:17:03,520 --> 00:17:06,880 Speaker 1: If you have responsibilities that are keeping you from fully 266 00:17:06,920 --> 00:17:10,640 Speaker 1: engaging in revelry, I hope that that also goes very 267 00:17:10,640 --> 00:17:13,280 Speaker 1: smoothly and that it's not too rough and that everything 268 00:17:13,320 --> 00:17:16,479 Speaker 1: works as it should. Uh. We will be right back 269 00:17:16,520 --> 00:17:19,800 Speaker 1: here tomorrow with a classic and then more Halloween fun 270 00:17:19,840 --> 00:17:27,280 Speaker 1: on Monday. Stuff you Missed in History Class is a 271 00:17:27,320 --> 00:17:30,520 Speaker 1: production of I heart Radio. For more podcasts from I 272 00:17:30,600 --> 00:17:33,800 Speaker 1: heart Radio, visit the i heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, 273 00:17:33,960 --> 00:17:35,959 Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.