Speaker 1: The volume. All right, it's time for our weekly hour
Speaker 1: with John Middlecoff, who will eventually take some time off.
Speaker 1: He got married last week. And okay, let's do some NFL.
Speaker 1: You know, I had said this last year. I thought
Speaker 1: the Niners were going to start regressing. I thought they
Speaker 1: should have started the rebuild last year. They did it.
Speaker 1: This year. They let Debo and Hufunga and Green Lawn
Speaker 1: Shavarious Ward go. They have twelve draft picks, but it's
Speaker 1: a week draft, so let's say you hit on six
Speaker 1: year draft picks. I thought last year was the first
Speaker 1: year in the last several. I just didn't think their
Speaker 1: defense was intimidating. I thought when Bosa was off the field,
Speaker 1: it was weak. I thought you could kind of manipulate it.
Speaker 1: I said this, I think Darnold and the Seahawks have
Speaker 1: a chance to be really interesting. Where are you on
Speaker 1: the Niners right now? A lot of draft picks. I mean,
Speaker 1: they didn't want to let Houfunk Gun Green Law Goals
Speaker 1: are excellent instinctive players. I mean, now you're getting to
Speaker 1: a point now where you're really crossing your fingers with
Speaker 1: Christian McCaffrey and Trent Williams.
Speaker 2: Big time. I think every move in a vacuum is
Speaker 2: easy to justify, it's not. I mean green Law was
Speaker 2: coming off of torn achilles, came back for a half,
Speaker 2: he looked like Fred Warner junior, and then couldn't play
Speaker 2: the rest of the season. Who funk got acl multiple
Speaker 2: injuries to it, like all the all the moves in
Speaker 2: a vacuum. Oh, let him go. You're not gonna pay
Speaker 2: that much for banks trade this backup running back. He
Speaker 2: was gonna make five million dollars on the totality, though,
Speaker 2: You go, that's losing a lot of guys, like who
Speaker 2: are going to be your backups? I think they would
Speaker 2: have somewhat started last year. It's much more difficult, though,
Speaker 2: when you have a team coming off being up late
Speaker 2: in the Super Bowl against the current dynasty. So you go,
Speaker 2: we are right there. All these guys are championship level players.
Speaker 2: I think they're big mistake in where they got really
Speaker 2: rattled for a long period of time. The Niners, like
Speaker 2: fifteen twenty years ago, they could extend the Patrick Willis's,
Speaker 2: the Frank Ors, the Vernon Davis's relatively cheap and they
Speaker 2: were great at it. Because Parrague Marate their Mundy guy
Speaker 2: is elite. He's like Howie Roseman, but he's not a GM.
Speaker 2: He just like runs the York's money and he runs
Speaker 2: their international soccer team well as the Caps exploded players.
Speaker 2: I don't want to say it's the NBA, but they
Speaker 2: do have a lot more juice. When Jamar Chase says
Speaker 2: I'm not playing for anything less than thirty eight to
Speaker 2: forty million dollars, like he's not really bullshit, Like he's
Speaker 2: not taking a discount. The top guys have some juice,
Speaker 2: but now the middle tier guys, like they would have
Speaker 2: laughed at Brandon Auke ten years ago and they would
Speaker 2: have won, but they were kind of in no man's land,
Speaker 2: and their coach, you know, who has a lot of juice,
Speaker 2: didn't want to get rid of their best receiver, and
Speaker 2: he took advantage of him, and that really rattled them
Speaker 2: because they immediately regretted it. If they could do that
Speaker 2: all over again, they would have traded him before the
Speaker 2: draft instead. Now they're trying to trade him. He's got
Speaker 2: an ACL and like he's untradeable for anything of value,
Speaker 2: and they're kind of in a weird spot. But the
Speaker 2: elephant in the room is the quarterback. And listen, Mike
Speaker 2: Silver has known the Shanahan family for thirty plus years
Speaker 2: and he's been reporting like they are telling everyone, take
Speaker 2: a deep breath. We're cutting some costs and we got
Speaker 2: to kind of recalibrate because I think they saw what
Speaker 2: the Rams did these last couple of years. Yes, now
Speaker 2: the difference is and look look at what the Bills
Speaker 2: did last year. I mean the Bills got rid of
Speaker 2: like half their big names. Well, Josh Allen's one of
Speaker 2: the greatest talents I've ever seen, and Matt Stafford whall
Speaker 2: Older was right there with would be considered Josh Allen
Speaker 2: ten years ago. He just played first shitty franchise, Like
Speaker 2: that's not Brock Purty and we all know that. Look
Speaker 2: at the NFC colin the two best quarterbacks you'd say,
Speaker 2: you know, I would say win wise and statistically would
Speaker 2: be Jalen and Jared Goff are on loaded rosters offensively,
Speaker 2: like we would say, you put either one of those
Speaker 2: guys on like the Jags or a bad team, it's
Speaker 2: gonna be props. Pretty the same thing. When he's on
Speaker 2: a good team, he's proven he canna be a really
Speaker 2: good player. But like if you're cutting costs and depending
Speaker 2: on some randos. It's just it's a pretty scary I
Speaker 2: do think they are gonna low ball Brock party and
Speaker 2: they're gonna make this more difficult because they before it
Speaker 2: was just like, hey, Trent, what do you want? Which
Speaker 2: I know would have a problem with doing that to Trent. Yeah,
Speaker 2: but the two were It's like, you're not Jamar Chase
Speaker 2: and your team doesn't play like that. It doesn't make
Speaker 2: any sense. I get the Cowboys. They throw out to
Speaker 2: Ceedee Lamb every other play. Yes, Brandon and I you
Speaker 2: had a career year seventy five. But at the end
Speaker 2: of the day, they do have a big time coach
Speaker 2: at a bad year, but he's proven to be really
Speaker 2: good and still a culture. They get Robert solid Back.
Speaker 2: I wouldn't count him out yet, but it's gonna be
Speaker 2: a lot of new names Colin, and they're gonna be
Speaker 2: very dependent on these high They have the eleventh pick,
Speaker 2: like you need a Micah Parsons. You need to you know,
Speaker 2: look at the Eagles and the Cowboy. When the Cowboys
Speaker 2: got Mike O or the Eagles got Davonte Smith. You're
Speaker 2: gonna have to nail this well.
Speaker 1: And also there are certain positions in football running back
Speaker 1: I think wide receiver, some say cornerback, where you can
Speaker 1: come in and make an impact pretty quickly. It's very instinctive.
Speaker 1: But where the Niners are drafting offensive line, maybe another
Speaker 1: tight end, you know, a play calling linebacker, a crucial
Speaker 1: safety in their defense. Those are hard positions to go
Speaker 1: college and pro. I mean, if you look at very
Speaker 1: few tight ends come into this league, brock Bauers is
Speaker 1: a total outlier. Very good tight ends have struggled because
Speaker 1: the blocking assignments now are so so difficult compared to college.
Speaker 1: So the Niners are asking players from college in the
Speaker 1: twelve draft picks to come into positions replace excellent instinctive,
Speaker 1: smart veteran players. Forget just making tackles. I mean green
Speaker 1: law is, I mean he is. He and Warner are
Speaker 1: anchors and communicators, and I think those kind of positions
Speaker 1: to replace, I have no problem. You know, it'd be
Speaker 1: one thing. If they're replacing you know, one corner one
Speaker 1: running back, you get to the offensive line. In Kyle
Speaker 1: Shanahan's system, you're lost until Thanksgiving. That's a tough rebuild.
Speaker 2: Oh for sure. Same with wide receivers. I mean same
Speaker 2: with Listen. Even if they draft defensive lineman with the
Speaker 2: eleventh pick, Khalil Mack, who's one of the better players
Speaker 2: of his generation. I think at four and a half
Speaker 2: sacks his rookie year. Jared Verse last year, who came
Speaker 2: on toward the end, wasn't a dominant, dominant force all
Speaker 2: season long.
Speaker 1: I covered Warren Sap in Tampa. It wasn't until the
Speaker 1: end of his first year that he made an impact
Speaker 1: here too. He was fantastic. But this league, there are
Speaker 1: guys that can make impacts. But I don't see the Niners.
Speaker 2: Their schedule sucks, their schedules bad. They have a last
Speaker 2: play schedule and they get to draft really high in
Speaker 2: every round. I think one of the divisions they play
Speaker 2: is the AFC South. I mean, I would say even
Speaker 2: before this mass exodus, I still think ten wins is
Speaker 2: very very you know, look at what the Rams have
Speaker 2: done these last couple of years. I think sometimes when
Speaker 2: you are as they say in most you know, world
Speaker 2: industries on boarding players. I think McVeigh uses that too,
Speaker 2: it takes a little time and then you kind of
Speaker 2: catch fire. I mean, I think they were one in
Speaker 2: four last year and two and three and six the
Speaker 2: year before. Now, you don't want to make a living.
Speaker 2: It's you do that ten times. A lot of times
Speaker 2: you're gonna end up with seven or eight wins. But
Speaker 2: you start a little slow and then you peak. One
Speaker 2: thing is very, very key for the forty nine ers.
Speaker 2: I'd say two guys. Trent Williams got to be on
Speaker 2: the field, and if Christian McCaffrey is just healthy, which
Speaker 2: who knows. I mean, he had multiple akilles, he tore
Speaker 2: his knee, but he is a major, major wild card
Speaker 2: in the NFL, going back to the Panther days. When
Speaker 2: he's on the field, he's one of the best players
Speaker 2: in the league. When he's off, especially with Kyle, he
Speaker 2: kind of derails their operation.
Speaker 1: So I thought the team, you can tell who has
Speaker 1: the power. In most organizations, McVeigh runs the Rams. I
Speaker 1: think Shanahan until recently had power on the draft. Andy
Speaker 1: Reid doesn't want it necessarily, Belichick did, Sean Payton does
Speaker 1: in Denver. You can tell the moves when coaches are making.
Speaker 1: Chicago clearly signaled that Ben Johnson's run the show for
Speaker 1: him to replace the entire interior. O line was telling
Speaker 1: Ryan Poles, you got your picks stink. And I thought, frankly,
Speaker 1: for the Chicago Bears, who I've been saying this for
Speaker 1: so many years, they're like, they're just a defensive culture.
Speaker 1: For a guy to come in and spend money on
Speaker 1: guards and centers, I thought it was a real moment
Speaker 1: in the history of the Chicago Bears. I was like, Wow,
Speaker 1: this field, I mean, how many years have the Steelers
Speaker 1: been hamming egging it on their offensive line? Tomlin runs
Speaker 1: the show, I for the first time that I can remember.
Speaker 1: I really like the direction where the Bears are going well.
Speaker 2: I think sometimes when you get like the whiz kid,
Speaker 2: the great offensive coordinator, they just want to score points
Speaker 2: and they're thinking quarterback and wide receiver. Ben Johnson's pretty
Speaker 2: lucky that his welcome to stardom in the NFL started
Speaker 2: with the trenches. I mean, I mean, let's face it,
Speaker 2: the Lions really separated themselves with a dominant offensive line,
Speaker 2: so they go and trade for a guy. It's crazy.
Speaker 2: You and I talk about these young quarterbacks. By that
Speaker 2: second year Thanksgiving, it's like you're on the clock, like
Speaker 2: your career is in troubles. It's like that now with
Speaker 2: free agency, the Rams side Jojah Jackson last year, three years,
Speaker 2: fifty one million dollars. Less than a year later, it's
Speaker 2: like traded. I mean these teams now, the money and
Speaker 2: the cash bonuses. Sealing that not in a million years,
Speaker 2: I would say, up till what seven eight years ago,
Speaker 2: would have ever happened because no owner, it's like he's
Speaker 2: a good player, and it's like, yeah, not a great fit.
Speaker 2: Seal you later. So they get a guy that they know,
Speaker 2: the Falcon Center is good and you see Andy Reid's
Speaker 2: quotes on toon, He's like, he's one of the toughest
Speaker 2: guys I've ever We don't want to trade this guy.
Speaker 2: We just there's money involved and we can't afford to
Speaker 2: keep them lay.
Speaker 1: We had the best year of his career arguably because
Speaker 1: he went to left Tackleon was excellent.
Speaker 2: To me. He's like his generation's Logan Mankins. I mean,
Speaker 2: just a plug and play guy who could play multiple
Speaker 2: positions as a stud. The other thing is when you
Speaker 2: have a smaller quarterback. You know, Non Peyton Manning, Tom Brady,
Speaker 2: the flat gol that generation and all those guys were huge,
Speaker 2: you know, Carson Palmer, Caleb. This generation is a little smaller, well,
Speaker 2: Sean Payton dealt with one in that generation, and they
Speaker 2: always invested in centers and guards. They had high because
Speaker 2: the pressure up the middle it rattles and he can't
Speaker 2: see where Peyton Manning and Tom Brady. Historically they had
Speaker 2: some pretty random guys on some seasons when they had
Speaker 2: good teams playing center and guard, they get away with it.
Speaker 2: Smaller quarterbacks cannot. It hurts pretty sometimes when they get
Speaker 2: in past situations and the garden center gets smoked. He's swimming.
Speaker 2: He can handle the outside pressure because he can move around.
Speaker 2: Same with Caleb he can move. But up the middle
Speaker 2: you are screwed. So they they could have I know
Speaker 2: they've invested draft picks and some tackles, but we'll see
Speaker 2: how good those guys turn out to be. But they
Speaker 2: went all in on the garden center position because I
Speaker 2: think with a smaller quarterback it's really really important to
Speaker 2: just neutralize. Think how many teams also have a good
Speaker 2: interior pass rush now, So yeah, it was hard to
Speaker 2: I mean, that was a no brainer. Moved by the Bears,
Speaker 2: and Ryan Pole is pretty lucky that this the way
Speaker 2: this He kept his job and he's still here and
Speaker 2: he gets to be a.
Speaker 1: Part of this. Yeah, I mean a couple of years ago,
Speaker 1: he whiffed on Villas Jones and I was like, oh dude,
Speaker 1: you could have called me.
Speaker 2: And then the Chase played with Rome. I mean, Rome
Speaker 2: was a pretty looking back. You should have taken an
Speaker 2: offensive lineman.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but Villas Jones, miss Chase Claypool, miss Roma Danze
Speaker 1: not as good as we thought.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 1: So again, I think you and I agree. I think
Speaker 1: the Bears are head in the right direction. You just
Speaker 1: pointed out something and I've been on this for a
Speaker 1: few years that I think there's a duality to all
Speaker 1: the owners being billionaires and some being ten, fifteen, twenty billionaires.
Speaker 1: Is that number one? The downside is they're more willing
Speaker 1: to just fire people quickly. They're more impulsive than they've
Speaker 1: ever been when they were all worth six hundred million.
Speaker 1: You're you're not just riding a seventeen to twenty five
Speaker 1: million dollar check to blow out a staff. You're just
Speaker 1: not doing it. Now. These guys will just blow out
Speaker 1: a seventy million dollar staff. So who does that hurt?
Speaker 1: It hurts a young quarterback who has to have another staff. So,
Speaker 1: I mean, Caleb Williams, even though he upgrades staffs. It's
Speaker 1: a brand new system. So that's the downside. The upside, though,
Speaker 1: is when you make a mistake with personnel like Rams
Speaker 1: and Jonah Jackson where it just didn't feel great, you
Speaker 1: can just move off it. And so you know this,
Speaker 1: you know you can never move off NBA contracts or
Speaker 1: baseball contracts. They're so guaranteed. In the NFL. Now, if
Speaker 1: you make a mistake, guys just write shacks and go all.
Speaker 2: Right, big Jo.
Speaker 1: I mean for the Bears to get Drew Dolman and
Speaker 1: Joe Toney, Jesus, you have your You're you may not
Speaker 1: be Philadelphia or Detroit, but that's a top three interior
Speaker 1: O line in the league.
Speaker 2: Well, let's you even use I mean, the craziest example
Speaker 2: currently is his cousin's example. Now, I know Arthur Blank
Speaker 2: is probably I don't know where he ranks, but he's
Speaker 2: not near the bottom when it comes to wealth. They're like, well,
Speaker 2: you're not gonna us around. We're gonna pay you ten
Speaker 2: million for next year. He obviously he's not gonna be
Speaker 2: the team next year, and we'll eat it until we
Speaker 2: figure this out. But you are gonna capitulate and you're
Speaker 2: gonna give us a trade eventually before the season starts.
Speaker 2: That never would happen. I thought it was like, no,
Speaker 2: no human lives is gonna give him ten million dollars
Speaker 2: guaranteed for next year. Cousin's gonna win this. They will
Speaker 2: cut him. I thought he'd be cut, you know, Wednesday Thursday.
Speaker 2: He's like, no, they just picked it up. But he's
Speaker 2: still there and we'll just have a staring contest. It's
Speaker 2: that that never would have happened without the influx of cash.
Speaker 2: I thought this when some of these deals are I
Speaker 2: mean Aaron Banks, the Niners left guard, got, I mean
Speaker 2: so much money. Milton Williams, who is obviously a really
Speaker 2: talented players he never played more than fifty percent of
Speaker 2: the snap for the Eagles, got twenty six million dollars
Speaker 2: a year.
Speaker 1: I was watching a clip of Jim Harbaugh and I
Speaker 1: had just had this discussion with Steve Kime about a
Speaker 1: week ago, two weeks ago, and I said, if I
Speaker 1: was ever a GM, because he owes jokes. He said,
Speaker 1: you're not a talk show host. You want to be
Speaker 1: a GM. And I'm like, you know, I like my job,
Speaker 1: but I would love to be a GM, you know,
Speaker 1: if I would have put thirty years into that instead
Speaker 1: of what I'm doing. Who knows, you know, you don't know.
Speaker 1: But I told him, I said I would overdraft the
Speaker 1: offensive line. And Harbaugh said this, and this is what
Speaker 1: Steve and I said. Jim put it more smartly. He said,
Speaker 1: there's only one unit in a football field that doesn't
Speaker 1: rely on any other unit, yet every other unit relies
Speaker 1: on it. And he said, it's offensive line. It makes
Speaker 1: your quarterback better, your running back's better, your tight end
Speaker 1: doesn't have to block as vigorously, your wide receivers have
Speaker 1: more time to get downfield. It keeps your defense off
Speaker 1: the field if you have a great offensive line. And
Speaker 1: it was one of those things where when you go
Speaker 1: back to drafting Joe Ault over a wide receiver, the
Speaker 1: Bears went wide receiver and then this year had to
Speaker 1: spend a fortune on their offensive line instead of The
Speaker 1: Bears probably should have gone O line instead of going
Speaker 1: with Romadunze. But it is interesting that the more the NFL,
Speaker 1: you know, changes and becomes an offensive league. We pay
Speaker 1: so much attention to quarterbacks. But I and I made
Speaker 1: this pick the other day. I think the Chiefs are
Speaker 1: going to struggle and I don't think they're going to
Speaker 1: win their division. I don't think in this draft class
Speaker 1: there's a starting left tackle good enough in their division
Speaker 1: to block Max Crosby or Khalil Mack or the kid
Speaker 1: number fifteen Oklahoma Bito Budido. And it's really interesting I think.
Speaker 1: I mean, right now, the three or four teams I
Speaker 1: like in the league all have great old lines, all
Speaker 1: of them. Philadelphia, Detroit. I thought the Rams finally got
Speaker 1: their act together offensive line. I think Buffalo's last year
Speaker 1: was better than people thought. I thought Denver's was better
Speaker 1: than people thought. I think Kansas City, I think we've
Speaker 1: just baked it in.
Speaker 2: John.
Speaker 1: They're not going ten to one in close games next year.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I would agree there, but their offensive line was
Speaker 2: puture this year on the on the edges, and they
Speaker 2: were able to well. I mean, they were basically a
Speaker 2: sixteen and one team. They threw the last game of
Speaker 2: the season. So when it comes to coaching, when it
Speaker 2: comes to quarterback play, and most importantly, their defense is
Speaker 2: gonna be good. So like part of the reason they
Speaker 2: were winn all these games because they could win nineteen
Speaker 2: to seventeen. They weren't allowing many points that that is
Speaker 2: not going to change. Now the Chargers in the Broncos,
Speaker 2: You and I have been saying this. Anyone with common
Speaker 2: sense has been saying this. The worst their teams were
Speaker 2: gonna be was last season. They're both gonna be better.
Speaker 2: So if either Houfunga or Greenlaw play, that defense is
Speaker 2: going to be improved in Denver's defense was awesome. When
Speaker 2: I saw Dk Metcalf ask for a trade, a lot
Speaker 2: of people that covered the NFL were like the Chargers.
Speaker 2: It's like, guys, do you think that Jim Harbaugh is
Speaker 2: going to trade a top whatever fifty pick and pay
Speaker 2: a third contract to this kind of out there wide
Speaker 2: receiver though very talented, kind of the poor man's modern
Speaker 2: day Torell Owens type. It's different, But I mean I
Speaker 2: think physically they have some to Dk Metcalf. Are you
Speaker 2: guys nuts? And what does he do? He goes signs
Speaker 2: Makai Beckton and he's he's got a huge I see
Speaker 2: yesterday he's got a huge smile on his face. Like,
Speaker 2: have you guys not followed Jim Harbaugh's career since Stanford?
Speaker 2: This they might draft a wide receiver this year in
Speaker 2: the third round. I would expect tight end, d lineman
Speaker 2: running back like it's Naji Harris. When I was living
Speaker 2: in the Bay Area, Naj was his senior year, was
Speaker 2: one of the biggest recruits in the country. I think
Speaker 2: he was number one recruit. He was number one and
Speaker 2: it was committed to go to Alabama, but Jim was
Speaker 2: recruiting him very hard. And I saw a clip that
Speaker 2: Jim had an Antioch. I think he went to the
Speaker 2: homecoming game. He announced their king and queen and so
Speaker 2: like that's who he's Listen. I'm not the biggest nause
Speaker 2: star running back, first round guy, but he is a solid,
Speaker 2: runs down hill, physical guy. Like that's how Jim wants
Speaker 2: to play. Jim wants to play a lot like this
Speaker 2: version of the Chiefs and clearly Denver. I think Sean
Speaker 2: would like to be a little more explosive down the field,
Speaker 2: but like that that division is gonna be really physical.
Speaker 2: And same thing with the I mean, we know how
Speaker 2: Pete Carroll, why did he butt heads with Russell Wilson.
Speaker 2: Russell wanted to throw it fifty times a game. Pete
Speaker 2: wanted to throw about twenty in play d and run
Speaker 2: the ball. So I think this defense is gonna or
Speaker 2: this divisions is gonna look a lot like each other. Now,
Speaker 2: you know, if for she Rice is healthy, Xavier Worthy
Speaker 2: came on. I do think the Chiefs offense could get
Speaker 2: more explosive, and I would also guess that they draft
Speaker 2: a running back. I think all these teams in this
Speaker 2: division could draft running backs. Yes, and if two of
Speaker 2: the four of them become stars, whichever ones those guys
Speaker 2: go to, like the next Yamier Gibbs or whoever Nick Chubb,
Speaker 2: you know, you name it, those second round running backs
Speaker 2: hit for one of these teams could be the difference.
Speaker 2: If all of a sudden, you tell me Denver it
Speaker 2: has a version of Nick Chubb or you know, Alvin
Speaker 2: Kamara on their squad, I'd be like, well, why couldn't
Speaker 2: they win twelve or thirteen games? Same thing with with Chargers.
Speaker 2: And maybe this is the year the Chiefs win. Two
Speaker 2: years ago when they won a Super Bowl, I think
Speaker 2: they won eleven games. So the difference between eleven and
Speaker 2: fifteen is like a couple of missfield goals and a
Speaker 2: couple of fumbles go your way.
Speaker 1: Yeah, the yeah, it's it's I thought. I thought DeVante
Speaker 1: Adams was obviously a great move for the Rams. But
Speaker 1: I thought, Najie Harris, there were a couple of moves
Speaker 1: I loved offensively. I think Deebo Samuel to Cliff Kingsbury
Speaker 1: and Jaden is a sensational move for them. At this point,
Speaker 1: He'll get tons of looks and by the way, it
Speaker 1: will give Cliff another twelve offensive plays because Deebo is
Speaker 1: such a unique player. And then I also thought, I thought,
Speaker 1: I thought Najie Harris. I'm like, remember a couple of
Speaker 1: years ago when Kevin Dohnson wasn't going to start for
Speaker 1: the Steelers, McVeagh grams him and he literally is the
Speaker 1: highest rated guard in the league. Naj Harris with that
Speaker 1: Pittsburgh go line, everybody's like almost as semi. I bust
Speaker 1: watch him with hardball, watch him be really effective with hardball.
Speaker 1: I think of this all the time. Is I remember
Speaker 1: a GM telling this year's ago he said, I used
Speaker 1: to love drafting Georgia guys when Mark Rick was there.
Speaker 1: Great recruiter, didn't squeeze all the juice out of a
Speaker 1: player like you got. You know, these guys had a
Speaker 1: lot of upside. Nick Saban squeezes every ounce of talent
Speaker 1: out of guys. And one of the things I look
Speaker 1: at John, when these offensive coaches like McVeigh will go
Speaker 1: and find wide receivers. He looked at DeVante and he
Speaker 1: thought Jets staff last year was like third tier. He's like,
Speaker 1: DeVante's gonna make eighty catches for us, So I thought, yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean so, I do think when you see these
Speaker 1: offensive coaches they find some of these defensive cultures and
Speaker 1: they find players and go get me that well.
Speaker 2: I think you look at the Eagles last year, Makai Beckton.
Speaker 2: This year they trade for that former first round pick
Speaker 2: from the Doones because now listen, you're not going to
Speaker 2: hit on them all, but the power of having good
Speaker 2: coordinators and now so many of the offensive ones are
Speaker 2: also the head coach. But you see it a lot
Speaker 2: when the star offensive line coach or the star defensive
Speaker 2: line coach. It's like buying a cheap stock and the
Speaker 2: guy a year later turns into a twelve million dollar
Speaker 2: player you can't afford, but you bought low like you
Speaker 2: profited from it. And I think the best teams always
Speaker 2: have that ability. I also think the Washington Commanders with
Speaker 2: Debo and with Tunsel touns Old not as much because
Speaker 2: he would get paid no matter what you got. Debo's
Speaker 2: in a contract years like Debo. If you ever want
Speaker 2: to make a even of a two year, forty million
Speaker 2: dollar contract, again, you got to slim down and give
Speaker 2: us all you got. And I think sometimes getting those
Speaker 2: guys motivated is a really big deal for these you know,
Speaker 2: it used to be a guy going to their third
Speaker 2: contract probably be like thirty four years old. These guys
Speaker 2: are a little younger now, you know, they're twenty nine,
Speaker 2: thirty years old, sometimes on their third you know, DK Metcalf. Yeah,
Speaker 2: they're not as old as you know in previous generation.
Speaker 2: And so sometimes these teams now with their cap space,
Speaker 2: these free aging classes after like the first ten names,
Speaker 2: most of them like the average fans like who's that guy?
Speaker 2: You can take advantage of it with traits overpriced guys
Speaker 2: on other teams at Adam Peters really did that with
Speaker 2: Tunzel and Deebo Samuel a ton of cap space. But
Speaker 2: I'm not going to buy all these players and pay
Speaker 2: premiums on guys that aren't quite worth it, like the Packers. Listen.
Speaker 2: I understand Aaron Banks has been a starter for the
Speaker 2: forty nine ers, but to give him that much money
Speaker 2: to be your left guard. Fell a little desperate to
Speaker 2: me as guard works. We have seen some questionable guard
Speaker 2: contracts in recent memory, and I understand offensive linemen more
Speaker 2: of a plug and play. It's a lot of money
Speaker 2: to pay a guy. You might be able to find
Speaker 2: a plug and play starter in like the third round,
Speaker 2: and the Packers historically have always been able to do it.
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Speaker 1: Well, he's one of my favorite people in the media.
Speaker 1: He has New York Times best selling books on Aaron Rodgers,
Speaker 1: coach k Derek Jeter, and Bill Belichick. Pretty impressive resume.
Speaker 1: He has got a new one coming out with Dan Hurley,
Speaker 1: which is fascinating because Hurley and Yukon have had a
Speaker 1: spirited and disappointing season, and the book is coming out
Speaker 1: in September called Never Stop Life, Leadership and What it
Speaker 1: Takes to Be Great, co written with Dan Hurley. I
Speaker 1: want to get to that in a second. I want
Speaker 1: to start with Rick Patino and Saint John's. So for
Speaker 1: the uninitiated, Saint John's is in Queens, one of the
Speaker 1: five boroughs used to be in Brooklyn, actually a long
Speaker 1: time ago Catholic university between the airports is how I
Speaker 1: remember being described to me one time, and it was
Speaker 1: in the Big East, which is the greatest basketball conference,
Speaker 1: the most personality filled basketball conference at its best in
Speaker 1: the history, between players and coaches, and so Louis carnaseca
Speaker 1: Ages of Leaves. It's not the same university many people tried.
Speaker 1: Then one of the great coaches of all time, Rick
Speaker 1: Bettina and New Yorker gets the job. So let's start
Speaker 1: with that. I couldn't say the last time Duke and
Speaker 1: Saint John's both had a chance to win the title
Speaker 1: in the same tournament. So it's a fascinating tournament. But
Speaker 1: when Rick took the job, I mean I said this
Speaker 1: the other day. You know, his moral compass has sometimes
Speaker 1: flipped around, But in terms of basketball iq EQ and
Speaker 1: program building.
Speaker 2: He is.
Speaker 1: He is parcels plus Urban Meyer. You know, he is
Speaker 1: just one of these guys that can do a Jim Harbaugh.
Speaker 1: What is the secret sauce?
Speaker 4: You know?
Speaker 1: Rick? What is his secret sauce? What's different between Rick
Speaker 1: and so many other coaches that go to these programs?
Speaker 1: I own a Saint John's and just make it work quickly.
Speaker 4: Great question, And I think, first of all, I think
Speaker 4: the two best, which is in the history of the sport,
Speaker 4: are John Wooden and Mike Sheryzewsky. So if you look
Speaker 4: at their bodies of work, yeah, I think they're the
Speaker 4: top two. But I also believe Rick Patino is just
Speaker 4: as good as they were. I think that he's as
Speaker 4: good as any college basketball coach ever. And it's just
Speaker 4: the ferocity with which he gets his kids to play defense.
Speaker 4: And it really works at Saint John's, and of course
Speaker 4: it worked at Louisville, it worked at Kentucky and to Providence.
Speaker 4: But he's such a New Yorker and that is such
Speaker 4: a New York style of play on the playgrounds that
Speaker 4: it really translates. And this has been a very likable team.
Speaker 4: The city has fallen in love with Saint John's. Now,
Speaker 4: when I started my career, Saint John's would take the
Speaker 4: back page of the tabloids away from the Knicks, and
Speaker 4: so it's been a long time since that was possible.
Speaker 2: Now.
Speaker 4: Of course, the tabloids aren't what they used to be
Speaker 4: in New York or newspapers anywhere, of course, but Saint
Speaker 4: John's is now a team that the city has embraced.
Speaker 4: And Patino that style of played. He did it even
Speaker 4: with the mix, pressing, defense, attention to detail, just playing
Speaker 4: with that ferocity. And yeah, I don't know if I've
Speaker 4: ever seen a coach get his kids consistently to play
Speaker 4: any harder than Rick Patino's teams everywhere he's been, including
Speaker 4: in the NBA outside of the Celtics. But yeah, he's
Speaker 4: an amazing when it comes to x'es and o's and
Speaker 4: motivation and recruiting, He's an amazing coach, There's no question
Speaker 4: about it.
Speaker 1: So it is very unique. I have them making the
Speaker 1: Final four. They don't shoot threes particularly well, but either
Speaker 1: does half ninety percent of the field. I mean, you
Speaker 1: see San Diego's rare BYU is rare. Saint John's can't
Speaker 1: shoot threes, Houston's not great at it. Michigan State can't.
Speaker 1: I mean I watched Michigan Michigan State play a couple
Speaker 1: of weeks ago, and Michigan State ends up scoring in
Speaker 1: the eighties. I don't know how, but they get there.
Speaker 1: So I don't really use that as a deficit. I
Speaker 1: think Saint John's can muscle and defend and coach its
Speaker 1: way to the final four. But I'll go being back
Speaker 1: to my initial point. You know Duke basketball because of
Speaker 1: the book Coach k which I strongly recommend if you've
Speaker 1: never read it, it is I think it's in my opinion,
Speaker 1: I think it's your best book, and I've read all
Speaker 1: of them. I loved it. Duke is the most talented
Speaker 1: team Coach k Leaves. And usually it almost always works
Speaker 1: this way. You give it to a popular assistant coach
Speaker 1: and he just doesn't have the gravitas or the weight
Speaker 1: to hold this massive brand afloat. But Duke this year
Speaker 1: feels like to me the odds on favorite, like if
Speaker 1: they want, it's the only team you wouldn't even ask
Speaker 1: how you'd go? Okay, Cooper flag are you surprised by
Speaker 1: Coach k Leaves? And yet Duke remains vibrant.
Speaker 4: No, I'm not surprised, Colin. I think Duke does recruit
Speaker 4: itself to some degree. But John Shier's recruiting has been
Speaker 4: unbelievable since coach k left. And you start with that.
Speaker 4: Of course, that's the lifeblood of college basketball in all
Speaker 4: college sports, and he's been terrific at that, and he's
Speaker 4: just a really good coach too, in terms of ex's
Speaker 4: and o's. But if you look at that team right now,
Speaker 4: it's it's almost a perfect college basketball team. They've got
Speaker 4: the big man who's seven to two with an incredible wingspan.
Speaker 4: He's a top ten, top fifteen NBA pick. You've got
Speaker 4: a forward who's a top fifteen on one side. On
Speaker 4: the other side, you've got one of the best freshmen
Speaker 4: we've ever seen in college basketball, who's the number one pick,
Speaker 4: assuming he's healthy and he looks like he's going to play.
Speaker 4: And in the backcourt you've got two guys who are six'
Speaker 4: five at. Guard, now, yeah maybe the one question mark
Speaker 4: you have against a team that has, smaller quicker, guards
Speaker 4: maybe that's a little bit of an. Issue but, size,
Speaker 4: skill the, coaching the, pedigree everything is in place For
Speaker 4: dupe to. Win the national. CHAMPIONSHIP i actually don't think they,
Speaker 4: will BUT i certainly wouldn't be surprised if they, do
Speaker 4: because they probably do have the best. TEAM i actual
Speaker 4: you Think houston is going to win the national, Title
Speaker 4: and it's a bit of a strange. REASON i just
Speaker 4: Think Kelvin sampson has been such a good coach for so,
Speaker 4: long it seems to me that he's going to get
Speaker 4: one before he. Retires and you, look really that's kind
Speaker 4: of a funny. Reason but if you look at the
Speaker 4: way they, defend they have, guards AND i just think
Speaker 4: at some point he's going to pick one. Off John
Speaker 4: shire is very worthy coach of winning a national. Tie
Speaker 4: if you recall from my, Book COACH k wanted him
Speaker 4: to be the. Coach the university actually Wanted Tommy amacker
Speaker 4: to be the next head, coach But COACH k sort
Speaker 4: of got his way on that, one and, frankly you
Speaker 4: cannot argue with the. Results John shire has been.
Speaker 1: Tremendous, yeah for the, uninitiated, again for the people that
Speaker 1: don't Follow duke closely or college, basketball what was? Boy
Speaker 1: that must have been, tough remember reading about it in your.
Speaker 1: Book you Have amaker And shire and you, know and
Speaker 1: here Comes COACH. K, eventually you know he's going to
Speaker 1: make a. Choice what Is shire's, strength what's this foundational
Speaker 1: piece that made him the? Choice and why you Think
Speaker 1: COACH k eventually leaned to him.
Speaker 4: Because he was in his. System it had been a
Speaker 4: long time Since amaker had been an assistant At. Duke of,
Speaker 4: course he was a very important player in the development
Speaker 4: of that championship program Under COACH k and has done
Speaker 4: a good job in THE Ivy. League But shier was.
Speaker 4: There shire was a great. Player he was going to
Speaker 4: play of THE nba serious eye injury early in what
Speaker 4: would have BEEN i think a pretty GOOD nba. Career
Speaker 4: but the way he relates to. Kids i've had just
Speaker 4: a couple of conversations with, him but been around enough
Speaker 4: people who are in his world, consistently and he's just
Speaker 4: a very relatable. Guy and SO i think the fact
Speaker 4: that he was a, really really good player there and
Speaker 4: the fact that he is he's got the right personality
Speaker 4: to connect with. People he obviously has THE x AND
Speaker 4: o background From COACH, k and you put it all,
Speaker 4: together and, again it is a campus that does recruit
Speaker 4: itself to some degree and a program that does recruit
Speaker 4: itself to some. Degree it's a pretty powerful. Combination SO i.
Speaker 1: Said this the other day on the. Show you, know
Speaker 1: OBVIOUSLY i was in The northeast for ten and a half,
Speaker 1: years but one of the THINGS i observed WHEN i
Speaker 1: was in the city a lot or near it In
Speaker 1: connecticut is, that you, know there's a lot Of yankee
Speaker 1: And met, fans and a lot Of giant And jet,
Speaker 1: fans but everybody In New york likes The. Knicks it's
Speaker 1: just every single FRIEND i had In New, york and
Speaker 1: many of, them more than The yankees Or, giants Were
Speaker 1: nick fans. First and, Again i'm old enough to remember
Speaker 1: The Walt, Fraser Bill, Bradley Earl. Monroe, yet LIKE i
Speaker 1: go back to the seventies when nobody. Won you, know
Speaker 1: The lakers won a, title The warriors, did The Washington bullets,
Speaker 1: did The, sonics The, blazers The, knicks and then there
Speaker 1: were the Pat riley. Iterations BUT i always, Said, god
Speaker 1: If dolan could get out of the, way this city
Speaker 1: loves its team so. Much AND i think when The
Speaker 1: sphere got built for two, Years dolan removed himself from the,
Speaker 1: FACILITY i mean literally. Physically he was In vegas so,
Speaker 1: often and it allowed The knicks to really grow this
Speaker 1: really strong basketball, group AND i think they've made very,
Speaker 1: patient very sharp. MOVES i don't Think kat is the,
Speaker 1: future BUT i think he was the right move at
Speaker 1: the right. Time but there was a moment Between tibbs
Speaker 1: And Josh hart the other day And Michale bridges it
Speaker 1: was public that he had gone To. Tibbs, hey we
Speaker 1: need to play the starters. Less you, know young players
Speaker 1: don't get a lot of work and minutes Under. Tibbs
Speaker 1: as great as the brief journey has been With, tom
Speaker 1: it does feel, like does it not Ian to get
Speaker 1: to the next, level you need two. Moves Karl Anthony
Speaker 1: towns probably gets replace with a better defensive big or
Speaker 1: just like A, kd a greater, player And tibbs may
Speaker 1: not be the. Answer or is that me three thousand
Speaker 1: miles away Guessing.
Speaker 4: NO i think it's possible that's the. CASE i do
Speaker 4: Think tibbs is good enough to win a championship as
Speaker 4: a head. Coach they lose in the second round again this.
Speaker 4: Year THERE i don't think he'll get replaced BECAUSE i
Speaker 4: think he'll lose to a better. TEAM i think The
Speaker 4: celtics are, better and surprisingly, ENOUGH i did not think
Speaker 4: The cavs would be, better but they. Are they just.
Speaker 4: Are so if they lose in the second, round to
Speaker 4: say The, celtics defire the guy off that you're losing
Speaker 4: to a better. Team The celtics have better. Players The
Speaker 4: knicks have improved their rosters, certainly AND i didn't Think
Speaker 4: Jalen bruns AND i wasn't sure if he'd be this
Speaker 4: or it could be the second best player on a
Speaker 4: championship team when they acquired. Him NOW i do think
Speaker 4: he could be one of the top, two if not
Speaker 4: the best player on a championship. Team he's an incredible,
Speaker 4: player AND i think a lot of people In New
Speaker 4: york were surprised by. THAT i think where The knicks
Speaker 4: are right now is it's kind of funny Because jets
Speaker 4: fans have been complaining and complaining About Woody, johnson the
Speaker 4: owner for a long. Time Woody johnson hires and we'll
Speaker 4: find out if he did the right general manager And
Speaker 4: mouji and the right head coach And Aaron. Glenn he's
Speaker 4: going to go away And jets fans will never talk about.
Speaker 4: Him The knicks fans are not talking About Jim, dollon
Speaker 4: and they haven't now for a number of years because
Speaker 4: he hired the right general. Manager AND i was a.
Speaker 4: Gamble Leon rose had never done this. Job he was
Speaker 4: a very good, agent he had never been a general,
Speaker 4: manager and early ON i wasn't so. Sure but turns
Speaker 4: out he knows what he's, doing And, tims of course
Speaker 4: everybody knew he knew what he was. Doing he's proven
Speaker 4: that he could be a very valuable piece of a
Speaker 4: coaching staff that won a championship In boston Under Doc,
Speaker 4: rivers and so is. He it's almost Like Buck showalter
Speaker 4: did all the dirty work on The yankees in the
Speaker 4: mid nineties and then he got replaced By Joe, tory
Speaker 4: And Joe tory then one flow up. Series i'm not
Speaker 4: saying that the Next knicks coach is going to win
Speaker 4: for tied in the next five years after that, happens
Speaker 4: BUT i think that he's going to get one more
Speaker 4: year after another second round. Exit maybe The knicks will
Speaker 4: surprise us and win that second round matchup with say The.
Speaker 4: CELTICS i don't think that will, happen BUT i do
Speaker 4: think you're right in terms of the. Roster it looks
Speaker 4: like they're still believe it or not after all the
Speaker 4: moves they've made and what five number one picks For
Speaker 4: bridges and then they made The cat deal and They
Speaker 4: brunson deal was an incredible. One it still looks like
Speaker 4: they need to make one more move and Maybe cat
Speaker 4: is a part of that. Package but, yeah right, now
Speaker 4: it's just they're in a tough way because of The
Speaker 4: celtics being in their way and now The calves have
Speaker 4: hurdled them and they sure look like they're for. Real
Speaker 4: the volume