1 00:00:03,040 --> 00:00:07,040 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff to Blow Your Mind, the production of iHeartRadio. 2 00:00:13,160 --> 00:00:15,120 Speaker 2: Hey you welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind. My 3 00:00:15,240 --> 00:00:16,040 Speaker 2: name is Robert. 4 00:00:15,880 --> 00:00:18,759 Speaker 3: Lamb, and I am Joe McCormick. And we're back with 5 00:00:18,840 --> 00:00:23,600 Speaker 3: part two of our look at Strange Ice. Now, initially 6 00:00:23,640 --> 00:00:25,040 Speaker 3: we didn't know this was going to be a two 7 00:00:25,120 --> 00:00:29,240 Speaker 3: part series. Last time, we looked at odd ice formations 8 00:00:29,280 --> 00:00:31,880 Speaker 3: that can occur on Earth, such as the main one 9 00:00:31,880 --> 00:00:34,880 Speaker 3: I looked at was this thing called nieves penitentes or 10 00:00:34,920 --> 00:00:39,120 Speaker 3: just penitentes, which are these very strange sort of blades 11 00:00:39,280 --> 00:00:43,040 Speaker 3: or spikes or pinnacles of ice that you can sometimes 12 00:00:43,080 --> 00:00:46,280 Speaker 3: find in high mountain ranges, especially in the dry Andies. 13 00:00:46,360 --> 00:00:50,040 Speaker 3: And we looked at a historical anecdote of Charles Darwin 14 00:00:50,120 --> 00:00:52,800 Speaker 3: trekking across the Andes and coming across a field of 15 00:00:52,840 --> 00:00:55,520 Speaker 3: these things, one that had a horse frozen inside it. 16 00:00:56,360 --> 00:01:01,320 Speaker 3: But we also looked at ice formations such as ball ice, 17 00:01:01,840 --> 00:01:05,880 Speaker 3: candle ice, rotten ice, and a lot of other creepy, interesting, 18 00:01:06,400 --> 00:01:12,040 Speaker 3: physically counterintuitive ways that ice can form or decompose. And 19 00:01:12,200 --> 00:01:14,800 Speaker 3: so we're coming back today to talk some more about 20 00:01:14,840 --> 00:01:15,600 Speaker 3: strange ice. 21 00:01:15,920 --> 00:01:18,039 Speaker 2: Yeah, I guess this episode's kind of a release valve. 22 00:01:18,040 --> 00:01:20,600 Speaker 2: From the last episode, there were a number of threads 23 00:01:20,680 --> 00:01:22,880 Speaker 2: that had come up in our research that we just 24 00:01:22,920 --> 00:01:26,640 Speaker 2: had to continue to pursue. So some of these are 25 00:01:26,959 --> 00:01:30,920 Speaker 2: definitely still going to deal with direct examples of ice 26 00:01:32,440 --> 00:01:34,479 Speaker 2: manifesting in a way that we might think of as weird, 27 00:01:34,600 --> 00:01:36,600 Speaker 2: behaving in a way that some people might think of 28 00:01:36,640 --> 00:01:39,640 Speaker 2: as weird. But we'll also get into some I thought 29 00:01:39,760 --> 00:01:44,800 Speaker 2: very fascinating and haunting folk traditions concerning the ice. All right, 30 00:01:44,840 --> 00:01:48,200 Speaker 2: what have you got, rob, So in the last episode 31 00:01:48,560 --> 00:01:53,480 Speaker 2: we discussed mostly in passing the dangers of ice, specifically 32 00:01:53,720 --> 00:01:56,560 Speaker 2: coastal sea ice and any sort of icy environment that 33 00:01:56,640 --> 00:02:00,000 Speaker 2: humans will attempt to traverse or in any way exploit 34 00:02:00,160 --> 00:02:06,360 Speaker 2: for hunting, fishing, recreation, scientific purposes. Specifically thinking about rotten ice, 35 00:02:06,440 --> 00:02:08,280 Speaker 2: you know the idea that it's just not safe to 36 00:02:08,360 --> 00:02:12,560 Speaker 2: venture upon. And I imagine we have plenty of listeners 37 00:02:12,600 --> 00:02:15,240 Speaker 2: out there who grew up in places with icy environments 38 00:02:15,240 --> 00:02:18,120 Speaker 2: who can attest to the dangers of ice that I mean, 39 00:02:18,120 --> 00:02:20,359 Speaker 2: there are just so many ways that it can potentially 40 00:02:20,400 --> 00:02:22,640 Speaker 2: be dangerous. There's, of course, you know the fact that 41 00:02:22,680 --> 00:02:25,040 Speaker 2: ice can be slippery, you can fall, and if you 42 00:02:25,080 --> 00:02:28,360 Speaker 2: fall on ice, it is hard, and you know that 43 00:02:28,400 --> 00:02:31,120 Speaker 2: can hurt you as well. Then you get into areas 44 00:02:31,160 --> 00:02:35,120 Speaker 2: where ice may give way. It may plunge us into 45 00:02:35,320 --> 00:02:38,800 Speaker 2: freezing water, It may plunge us into hollow areas where 46 00:02:38,840 --> 00:02:42,440 Speaker 2: the water is drained out, and so forth. There are 47 00:02:42,440 --> 00:02:45,040 Speaker 2: so many ways that ice can pose a danger. Ice 48 00:02:45,080 --> 00:02:47,480 Speaker 2: can also just be physically heavy as well. 49 00:02:47,760 --> 00:02:51,040 Speaker 3: Yeah, the danger of plunging through ice into a hazard 50 00:02:51,080 --> 00:02:53,120 Speaker 3: below is not only the case on say like a 51 00:02:53,120 --> 00:02:56,920 Speaker 3: frozen pond or lake or something. But think about what 52 00:02:57,120 --> 00:02:59,720 Speaker 3: happened to that horse that Charles Darwin came across. We 53 00:02:59,760 --> 00:03:02,720 Speaker 3: don't know, but he speculated, well, maybe when the snow 54 00:03:02,840 --> 00:03:05,400 Speaker 3: was packed higher, it somehow like fell into a hole 55 00:03:05,520 --> 00:03:08,360 Speaker 3: or crevasse in the ice and then and then died 56 00:03:08,440 --> 00:03:11,400 Speaker 3: like that, and then the rest of it sublimated away 57 00:03:11,440 --> 00:03:11,960 Speaker 3: around it. 58 00:03:12,720 --> 00:03:15,840 Speaker 2: Yeah, and you don't even have to have really extreme 59 00:03:16,000 --> 00:03:20,480 Speaker 2: environments for potentially dangerous examples of this from occurring. Like 60 00:03:20,639 --> 00:03:24,240 Speaker 2: I remember as a kid encountering situations where you'd have 61 00:03:24,320 --> 00:03:27,480 Speaker 2: like a bog or you know, a marshy area, and 62 00:03:27,560 --> 00:03:29,400 Speaker 2: you would have a situation where you would have this 63 00:03:29,480 --> 00:03:31,560 Speaker 2: sort of ice cap on top and I guess like 64 00:03:31,600 --> 00:03:35,720 Speaker 2: the water drained down during the melting, and so you'd 65 00:03:35,720 --> 00:03:38,880 Speaker 2: have this this thin layer of ice on top and 66 00:03:38,920 --> 00:03:42,120 Speaker 2: you could fall down through it potentially or climb down 67 00:03:42,120 --> 00:03:44,440 Speaker 2: through it and play in it as a child. And 68 00:03:44,480 --> 00:03:46,080 Speaker 2: so yeah, that's I guess that's one of the things 69 00:03:46,120 --> 00:03:48,200 Speaker 2: that we'll be getting into here, is like ice creates 70 00:03:48,560 --> 00:03:51,720 Speaker 2: unique environments that, especially to a child, can be as 71 00:03:51,760 --> 00:03:53,880 Speaker 2: intriguing as they are potentially hazardous. 72 00:03:54,040 --> 00:03:56,680 Speaker 3: I'm just thinking now about little rob climbing down through 73 00:03:56,720 --> 00:03:59,040 Speaker 3: the ice to play in the bog. Yeah. 74 00:03:59,160 --> 00:04:02,760 Speaker 2: Yeah, that was part of my childhood. So yeah, I 75 00:04:02,800 --> 00:04:05,280 Speaker 2: think it should come as no surprise that there are 76 00:04:05,480 --> 00:04:10,280 Speaker 2: traditional tales and folk traditions seemingly meant to keep children 77 00:04:10,400 --> 00:04:14,800 Speaker 2: away from ice, Because again, ice is great fun, children 78 00:04:14,840 --> 00:04:17,640 Speaker 2: are curious, and since time out of Mind parents have 79 00:04:17,920 --> 00:04:22,440 Speaker 2: invented and passed down tales of perhaps more embodied threats 80 00:04:23,000 --> 00:04:29,160 Speaker 2: monsters to scare children away from potentially dangerous environments. Now 81 00:04:29,279 --> 00:04:31,320 Speaker 2: this may ring a bell because we discussed one of 82 00:04:31,360 --> 00:04:34,360 Speaker 2: these on the podcast a few years back. This would 83 00:04:34,400 --> 00:04:38,000 Speaker 2: be Jenny Green Teeth, a river hag of English folklore 84 00:04:38,200 --> 00:04:42,080 Speaker 2: widely understood as a kind of nursery boogie to keep 85 00:04:42,240 --> 00:04:46,320 Speaker 2: children away from the water's edge bogie rather not boogie. 86 00:04:46,960 --> 00:04:50,280 Speaker 3: Yeah. I think Jenny could be used to warn children 87 00:04:50,320 --> 00:04:54,159 Speaker 3: of the dangers of water in multiple environments. But the 88 00:04:54,200 --> 00:04:57,280 Speaker 3: one that I remember being really salient was like in 89 00:04:57,360 --> 00:05:00,840 Speaker 3: certain regions of England, there might be places where there 90 00:05:00,839 --> 00:05:03,320 Speaker 3: were holes or pits in the ground, maybe maral pits 91 00:05:03,440 --> 00:05:05,440 Speaker 3: or something like that, that had been hollowed out and 92 00:05:05,440 --> 00:05:08,240 Speaker 3: then filled in with water. And sometimes this water would 93 00:05:08,279 --> 00:05:11,960 Speaker 3: have coverings of like algae or plant matter or something 94 00:05:12,000 --> 00:05:13,520 Speaker 3: on top of it that would just make it look 95 00:05:13,640 --> 00:05:15,920 Speaker 3: very green, make it look like it was just you know, 96 00:05:16,080 --> 00:05:19,400 Speaker 3: a continuation of the grass almost. 97 00:05:18,839 --> 00:05:23,120 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, And you know to your point, you know, 98 00:05:23,160 --> 00:05:25,720 Speaker 2: once you have a folk creation like this, it can 99 00:05:26,240 --> 00:05:28,279 Speaker 2: be deployed in various ways. It can sort of take 100 00:05:28,279 --> 00:05:33,520 Speaker 2: on different meanings and different stressors in different stories. But 101 00:05:33,560 --> 00:05:36,560 Speaker 2: there are many variations on this theme in global traditions 102 00:05:36,560 --> 00:05:39,680 Speaker 2: where there's some sort of supernatural being that is associated 103 00:05:39,720 --> 00:05:42,560 Speaker 2: with the water and the dangers of the water, especially 104 00:05:42,640 --> 00:05:45,960 Speaker 2: for young children. The Japanese Kappa is one that we've 105 00:05:45,960 --> 00:05:49,000 Speaker 2: also discussed in the past that sometimes takes on these connotations. 106 00:05:50,120 --> 00:05:52,520 Speaker 2: And then of course this is another thing we're discussed 107 00:05:52,560 --> 00:05:54,640 Speaker 2: in the show before. There's, of course, the nineteen seventy 108 00:05:54,640 --> 00:05:58,880 Speaker 2: three British public information film Lonely Water, also known as 109 00:05:58,960 --> 00:06:01,799 Speaker 2: the Spirit of Dark and Only Water, featuring the voice 110 00:06:01,839 --> 00:06:05,680 Speaker 2: of Donald Pleasance. This very much carries on the tradition here, 111 00:06:05,760 --> 00:06:10,560 Speaker 2: and it's often discussed as something that traumatized an entire 112 00:06:10,600 --> 00:06:12,200 Speaker 2: generation of British children. 113 00:06:12,560 --> 00:06:16,400 Speaker 3: It sounds like it worked. I mean, are you going 114 00:06:16,480 --> 00:06:18,800 Speaker 3: to go play in the flooded mind pits now? 115 00:06:19,320 --> 00:06:24,760 Speaker 2: Yeah? You know. It's a complicated topic though, the use 116 00:06:24,839 --> 00:06:29,880 Speaker 2: of boogiemen and boogie women, I guess to frightened children. 117 00:06:30,279 --> 00:06:34,640 Speaker 2: I remember reading about some of the works of Francisco 118 00:06:34,720 --> 00:06:41,560 Speaker 2: Goya in which he was criticizing this and taught and 119 00:06:41,600 --> 00:06:44,960 Speaker 2: like tying in this whole idea that like, by having 120 00:06:45,279 --> 00:06:49,799 Speaker 2: parents that invoke supernatural threats to keep children in line, 121 00:06:50,200 --> 00:06:53,719 Speaker 2: they're not only potentially protecting their child from these threats, 122 00:06:53,800 --> 00:06:58,480 Speaker 2: but they're also instilling supernatural belief at an early age 123 00:06:59,279 --> 00:07:03,880 Speaker 2: that then, you know, matures and becomes these other modes 124 00:07:03,960 --> 00:07:08,600 Speaker 2: of supernatural belief that to some may be seen as 125 00:07:08,680 --> 00:07:10,400 Speaker 2: more harmful in their adulthood. 126 00:07:11,240 --> 00:07:14,680 Speaker 3: So, like his ideas, if you teach a child to 127 00:07:15,360 --> 00:07:18,320 Speaker 3: fear spectral dangers, even if it's useful in keeping them 128 00:07:18,320 --> 00:07:21,000 Speaker 3: away from a real physical danger in childhood, maybe they 129 00:07:21,160 --> 00:07:24,760 Speaker 3: just grow up to continue to project spectral dangers that 130 00:07:24,880 --> 00:07:25,880 Speaker 3: are not necessary. 131 00:07:26,560 --> 00:07:28,560 Speaker 2: Yeah, I believe that's the argument. Though. Of course, this 132 00:07:28,680 --> 00:07:32,320 Speaker 2: is a complicated issue, so you know, obviously it's there 133 00:07:32,360 --> 00:07:34,600 Speaker 2: are a lot of a lot of ins and outs here, 134 00:07:34,680 --> 00:07:37,000 Speaker 2: so I don't want to simplify it too much. But 135 00:07:37,040 --> 00:07:38,800 Speaker 2: it's interesting to think about, like, what does it mean 136 00:07:38,920 --> 00:07:42,120 Speaker 2: when you introduce something like this? What does it mean 137 00:07:42,120 --> 00:07:47,000 Speaker 2: when you introduces something that's not even tied to scaring 138 00:07:47,120 --> 00:07:50,480 Speaker 2: children so much, like something like like a Santa Claus 139 00:07:50,560 --> 00:07:53,040 Speaker 2: or Easter bunny? You know what effect does that have? 140 00:07:53,200 --> 00:07:54,880 Speaker 2: And of course you know a lot has been written 141 00:07:54,920 --> 00:07:58,960 Speaker 2: and continues to be written and said about this. So anyway, 142 00:07:59,000 --> 00:08:02,720 Speaker 2: given all of this, she comes no surprise that there 143 00:08:03,280 --> 00:08:10,840 Speaker 2: are traditions that involve creating supernatural entities or monstrous entities 144 00:08:11,200 --> 00:08:15,160 Speaker 2: that are associated with the dangers of ice and keeping 145 00:08:15,320 --> 00:08:18,600 Speaker 2: children away from the ice. So I want to turn 146 00:08:18,640 --> 00:08:25,200 Speaker 2: to a couple of these from Native American First Nations traditions. 147 00:08:26,120 --> 00:08:30,840 Speaker 2: The first of these is the Abo damkin. This I 148 00:08:30,920 --> 00:08:33,640 Speaker 2: was reading about this in the Dictionary of Native American 149 00:08:33,720 --> 00:08:37,880 Speaker 2: Mythology by Sam D. Gill and Irene F. Sullivan. This 150 00:08:38,040 --> 00:08:42,079 Speaker 2: is apparently an entity in the traditions of the Malaset 151 00:08:42,520 --> 00:08:46,679 Speaker 2: and passima Quadi people in what is now the Canadian 152 00:08:46,760 --> 00:08:49,199 Speaker 2: province of New Brunswick and the US state of Maine. 153 00:08:49,640 --> 00:08:52,360 Speaker 2: The authors here describe it as a boogie monster with 154 00:08:52,600 --> 00:08:56,480 Speaker 2: long hair and huge teeth. Quote, fear of him keeps 155 00:08:56,520 --> 00:09:00,280 Speaker 2: small children from straying on thin newly from was an 156 00:09:00,320 --> 00:09:03,880 Speaker 2: ice in the winter and unguarded beaches in the summer. 157 00:09:04,480 --> 00:09:06,280 Speaker 3: Oh, so is this creature in the water? 158 00:09:07,280 --> 00:09:09,280 Speaker 2: Yeah? Yeah, I was looking for more information on this 159 00:09:09,400 --> 00:09:12,800 Speaker 2: and according to Native Languages as Native hyphen Languages dot org. 160 00:09:13,559 --> 00:09:17,400 Speaker 2: It is also sometimes sometimes described as a fanged sea serpent, 161 00:09:18,200 --> 00:09:22,720 Speaker 2: sometimes with like long red hair, and some accounts say 162 00:09:22,800 --> 00:09:24,920 Speaker 2: that it might have once been a human woman and 163 00:09:25,120 --> 00:09:28,640 Speaker 2: was transformed into the state. And despite the fact that 164 00:09:28,800 --> 00:09:32,280 Speaker 2: some Western interpretations apparently have classified this is a kind 165 00:09:32,320 --> 00:09:35,679 Speaker 2: of vampire, it is actually better thought of as a 166 00:09:35,800 --> 00:09:38,679 Speaker 2: sea monster. So, yeah, this would be something that dwells 167 00:09:38,760 --> 00:09:41,480 Speaker 2: within the water. Now, another one that I was reading 168 00:09:41,520 --> 00:09:44,400 Speaker 2: about this one. There's also a number of you may 169 00:09:44,400 --> 00:09:49,439 Speaker 2: be familiar with. Is the Qualipeluit. This is an entity 170 00:09:49,720 --> 00:09:52,679 Speaker 2: in the traditions of the Inuit, and there's an excellent 171 00:09:52,800 --> 00:09:57,880 Speaker 2: ride up about it on the Kikwitani Inuit Association's Inuit 172 00:09:58,000 --> 00:10:02,199 Speaker 2: Myths and Legends website Inuit Myths dot Com, which features 173 00:10:02,280 --> 00:10:06,400 Speaker 2: some just haunting artwork and also text that is available 174 00:10:06,480 --> 00:10:09,360 Speaker 2: in both English and Inuit. Joe I included one of 175 00:10:09,400 --> 00:10:13,079 Speaker 2: these images from the website here that is just absolutely terrifying. 176 00:10:13,360 --> 00:10:17,640 Speaker 3: Yeah, extremely Oh no, and it's it's like snatching a baby. 177 00:10:18,360 --> 00:10:22,160 Speaker 2: That's what they do. Yeah, yeah, yeah. The website describes 178 00:10:22,240 --> 00:10:27,120 Speaker 2: them as scaly marine humanoids that reek of sulfur, and yeah, 179 00:10:27,200 --> 00:10:29,880 Speaker 2: they snatch children. They prey on children who play alone 180 00:10:29,920 --> 00:10:32,839 Speaker 2: on the beach or get too close to breaking ice. 181 00:10:33,559 --> 00:10:36,839 Speaker 2: They may also feature pouches on their back to stuff 182 00:10:36,960 --> 00:10:40,600 Speaker 2: children in though I couldn't tell. It seemed ambiguous based 183 00:10:40,640 --> 00:10:43,280 Speaker 2: on the entry and based on the illustrations. There are 184 00:10:43,600 --> 00:10:47,079 Speaker 2: a couple of additional illustrations on the website. Whether this 185 00:10:47,280 --> 00:10:49,640 Speaker 2: pouch is in their clothing or if this is a 186 00:10:49,720 --> 00:10:53,040 Speaker 2: pouch in their body. Here's a haunting excerpt from the 187 00:10:53,200 --> 00:10:58,319 Speaker 2: Inuitmiths dot com website. Quote usually the Qualiteluit jump out 188 00:10:58,400 --> 00:11:02,400 Speaker 2: of the water and grab children with about any warning. Sometimes, however, 189 00:11:02,600 --> 00:11:06,160 Speaker 2: you can hear them knocking under the ice. Some elders 190 00:11:06,200 --> 00:11:08,600 Speaker 2: have said that if the ocean begins to become wavy 191 00:11:08,760 --> 00:11:12,080 Speaker 2: in an area, or steam begins to rise from the ocean, 192 00:11:12,320 --> 00:11:15,280 Speaker 2: aqulllipi lutt might be hiding underneath the water. 193 00:11:15,800 --> 00:11:17,040 Speaker 3: This one is so scary. 194 00:11:17,920 --> 00:11:21,600 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, absolutely, I love the idea that of one 195 00:11:21,640 --> 00:11:24,560 Speaker 2: of these creatures underneath the ice, like tapping or knocking 196 00:11:24,640 --> 00:11:26,320 Speaker 2: at it, especially. 197 00:11:27,000 --> 00:11:30,319 Speaker 3: Especially because if you ever do have experiences out on 198 00:11:30,520 --> 00:11:32,840 Speaker 3: ice over a frozen body of water, you can hear 199 00:11:33,040 --> 00:11:35,240 Speaker 3: strange sounds emanating from below. 200 00:11:36,040 --> 00:11:38,160 Speaker 2: That's right, right, And one of the things we'll get 201 00:11:38,160 --> 00:11:40,320 Speaker 2: into here in a bit is things that can suddenly 202 00:11:40,360 --> 00:11:43,280 Speaker 2: occur that also have sounds regarding the ice, especially the 203 00:11:43,360 --> 00:11:46,920 Speaker 2: ice close to the shore. So the direct line was 204 00:11:47,000 --> 00:11:49,480 Speaker 2: not made between these two topics and the material I 205 00:11:49,559 --> 00:11:51,559 Speaker 2: was looking at, But I can't help but think about 206 00:11:51,600 --> 00:11:54,720 Speaker 2: it now that I've researched it a little bit. But anyway, 207 00:11:54,920 --> 00:11:58,400 Speaker 2: I highly recommend inuitmths dot com. The website features profiles 208 00:11:58,440 --> 00:12:01,559 Speaker 2: and a handful of other mythological beam and creatures, including 209 00:12:01,640 --> 00:12:04,160 Speaker 2: the two Knit who I mentioned in a recent Monster 210 00:12:04,280 --> 00:12:08,000 Speaker 2: Fact episode. Wow, all right, so I mentioned the ice 211 00:12:08,080 --> 00:12:11,199 Speaker 2: making sounds. So I want to move on now to 212 00:12:11,320 --> 00:12:15,200 Speaker 2: the topic of what is known as ice shove. Now, 213 00:12:15,240 --> 00:12:18,160 Speaker 2: this is more of a clear example of weird ice, 214 00:12:18,400 --> 00:12:20,520 Speaker 2: or rather ice behaving in a way that many myths 215 00:12:20,720 --> 00:12:22,839 Speaker 2: might think of as weird. Though for a number of 216 00:12:22,920 --> 00:12:26,320 Speaker 2: you out there, ice shove is just a reality, potential 217 00:12:26,360 --> 00:12:29,920 Speaker 2: reality of the winter months. I was reading about this 218 00:12:30,160 --> 00:12:34,040 Speaker 2: in Barry Lopez's Arctic Dreams, and he mentions there's a 219 00:12:34,200 --> 00:12:37,600 Speaker 2: whole passage where he's talking about like long stillness broken 220 00:12:37,800 --> 00:12:41,480 Speaker 2: by sudden movement as sort of a hallmark of Arctic landscapes, 221 00:12:41,520 --> 00:12:43,920 Speaker 2: and he ties this also into just like a sense 222 00:12:43,960 --> 00:12:47,120 Speaker 2: of patience that is also that he observed as being 223 00:12:47,240 --> 00:12:52,360 Speaker 2: present in native populations and indigenous peoples. But he cites 224 00:12:52,360 --> 00:12:56,120 Speaker 2: an example of this ice shove concerning the breaking of 225 00:12:56,160 --> 00:12:59,679 Speaker 2: both river ice and sea ice, and for river ice, 226 00:12:59,760 --> 00:13:03,640 Speaker 2: Lowez describes it as follows, quote pistol reports of cracking 227 00:13:03,720 --> 00:13:06,600 Speaker 2: on the river, and then the sound of breaking branches 228 00:13:06,720 --> 00:13:09,480 Speaker 2: and the whining pop of a fallen tree is the 229 00:13:09,559 --> 00:13:13,280 Speaker 2: careening blocks of ice gouge the river banks. And he 230 00:13:13,400 --> 00:13:17,599 Speaker 2: describes the sea ice variation as follows quote, Suddenly, in 231 00:13:17,640 --> 00:13:20,400 Speaker 2: the middle of winter, and without warning, a huge piece 232 00:13:20,440 --> 00:13:24,600 Speaker 2: of sea ice surges hundreds of feet inland, like something alive, 233 00:13:25,559 --> 00:13:31,520 Speaker 2: and he cites the inopiat word ivo. I hope I'm 234 00:13:31,559 --> 00:13:36,520 Speaker 2: pronouncing that right. My apologies for any mispronunciations on these terms. 235 00:13:37,440 --> 00:13:39,960 Speaker 2: And it is also known as ice shove. I've also 236 00:13:40,040 --> 00:13:43,360 Speaker 2: seen it referred to as ice tsunamis, along with a 237 00:13:43,440 --> 00:13:47,480 Speaker 2: number of other English names. Ice shoves are generally classified 238 00:13:47,720 --> 00:13:54,320 Speaker 2: as onshore ice pushes caused by wind currents, changes in temperature, 239 00:13:54,440 --> 00:13:58,920 Speaker 2: and other causes. As meteorologist Matthew Capucci explained it in 240 00:13:59,000 --> 00:14:02,000 Speaker 2: a twenty twenty Washington Post article, there are a lot 241 00:14:02,040 --> 00:14:05,120 Speaker 2: of explainers out these out there that often pop up 242 00:14:05,480 --> 00:14:10,360 Speaker 2: when exceptional or notable examples of ice shoves occur, and 243 00:14:10,720 --> 00:14:14,559 Speaker 2: this I believe is one of those cases. This meteorologist 244 00:14:14,600 --> 00:14:16,800 Speaker 2: pointed out that as the wind blows over a long 245 00:14:16,920 --> 00:14:19,360 Speaker 2: sheet of ice, it can give that sheet of ice 246 00:14:19,520 --> 00:14:24,080 Speaker 2: enough momentum that it can't stop when pushed against the shore. Instead, 247 00:14:24,320 --> 00:14:27,920 Speaker 2: it fragments, and then the fragments pile up in heaps 248 00:14:27,960 --> 00:14:31,040 Speaker 2: of shattered ice on the coast. Conditions have to be 249 00:14:31,160 --> 00:14:33,560 Speaker 2: just right. The ice has to be thin enough, it 250 00:14:33,640 --> 00:14:36,720 Speaker 2: has to be brittle enough, and it generally only piles 251 00:14:36,800 --> 00:14:39,640 Speaker 2: up a few feet onto the shore. But there are 252 00:14:39,720 --> 00:14:42,680 Speaker 2: of course exceptional examples where things get much higher, or 253 00:14:42,760 --> 00:14:46,240 Speaker 2: they go up the shore a little bit more. Apparently 254 00:14:46,320 --> 00:14:50,040 Speaker 2: some places are more ideal for it. I saw Lake 255 00:14:50,080 --> 00:14:52,600 Speaker 2: Erie pointed out in this article due to its length 256 00:14:52,720 --> 00:14:56,960 Speaker 2: and particular orientation, and again there's some pretty exceptional examples. 257 00:14:57,000 --> 00:15:00,600 Speaker 2: In June of twenty eleven, along the Chuckchisea coast in Alaska, 258 00:15:00,960 --> 00:15:04,600 Speaker 2: ice shove piled up fifteen feet, and I've seen it 259 00:15:04,800 --> 00:15:07,880 Speaker 2: record heights as high as like forty feet in some cases. 260 00:15:08,320 --> 00:15:11,240 Speaker 2: So that's like a forty foot wall of ice fragments 261 00:15:11,400 --> 00:15:12,960 Speaker 2: piling up along the coast. 262 00:15:13,280 --> 00:15:13,680 Speaker 3: Yikes. 263 00:15:14,240 --> 00:15:18,880 Speaker 2: Yeah, And Lopez's ice shove measurements here seeman keeping with 264 00:15:19,200 --> 00:15:22,440 Speaker 2: the measurements I'm seeing in twenty twenty and ice shove 265 00:15:22,520 --> 00:15:25,800 Speaker 2: on Lake Winnebago was, according to NBC twenty six out 266 00:15:25,800 --> 00:15:29,920 Speaker 2: of Northeastern Wisconsin quote, a couple of hundred feet long 267 00:15:30,320 --> 00:15:34,000 Speaker 2: and taller than the supper Club itself. What does that 268 00:15:34,120 --> 00:15:36,920 Speaker 2: quote mean? I'm taking it out of context. The article 269 00:15:37,200 --> 00:15:41,520 Speaker 2: had this footage of the ice shove piled up next 270 00:15:41,600 --> 00:15:43,720 Speaker 2: to Jim and Linda's Lake Shore supper Club in the 271 00:15:43,800 --> 00:15:47,520 Speaker 2: town of Pipe appears to be like a single floor building. 272 00:15:48,240 --> 00:15:50,000 Speaker 2: But still that is a lot of ice. Like that's 273 00:15:50,080 --> 00:15:53,480 Speaker 2: a huge wall of moving ice, or I mean it's 274 00:15:53,520 --> 00:15:56,240 Speaker 2: no longer moving, but still it has moved up. It 275 00:15:56,360 --> 00:15:58,720 Speaker 2: has advanced in a way that is concerning. 276 00:15:59,120 --> 00:16:01,560 Speaker 3: The supper club is threatened they're gonna get ice in 277 00:16:01,600 --> 00:16:02,280 Speaker 3: their hot dish. 278 00:16:05,040 --> 00:16:07,200 Speaker 2: Oh man, wow. 279 00:16:07,960 --> 00:16:10,320 Speaker 3: So I looked up a few pictures of this, and 280 00:16:10,440 --> 00:16:13,560 Speaker 3: it is alarming because, yeah, you can see cases where 281 00:16:13,840 --> 00:16:16,920 Speaker 3: I guess these are lakeside houses where the ice is 282 00:16:17,000 --> 00:16:19,240 Speaker 3: just shoved right up against the house, like you're saying, 283 00:16:19,280 --> 00:16:21,840 Speaker 3: happen to the supper club here, and in some cases 284 00:16:21,920 --> 00:16:25,040 Speaker 3: shoved into the house and apparently causes damage, like you know, 285 00:16:25,160 --> 00:16:26,480 Speaker 3: busts a wall or something. 286 00:16:26,920 --> 00:16:30,080 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, so I you know, I guess it's the 287 00:16:30,160 --> 00:16:31,880 Speaker 2: kind of thing where you had observed it and you 288 00:16:31,960 --> 00:16:35,800 Speaker 2: knew that it can kind of occur. Suddenly you might 289 00:16:35,880 --> 00:16:38,560 Speaker 2: have that in your mind when you can trying to 290 00:16:38,600 --> 00:16:41,360 Speaker 2: convince the children not to play too close to the ice. Sometimes, 291 00:16:41,760 --> 00:16:44,720 Speaker 2: though it also seems like a rare it's not so 292 00:16:44,880 --> 00:16:47,520 Speaker 2: regular in occurrence that it really would happen all of 293 00:16:47,600 --> 00:16:50,720 Speaker 2: the time. And coming back to our point earlier, there 294 00:16:50,760 --> 00:16:53,440 Speaker 2: are a number of other more common things that could 295 00:16:53,480 --> 00:16:56,000 Speaker 2: be dangerous about the ice and the ice at the 296 00:16:56,080 --> 00:16:59,200 Speaker 2: edge of the coast. Or of course, even when the 297 00:16:59,240 --> 00:17:01,920 Speaker 2: ice has melted, like the water's edge can still be dangerous, 298 00:17:02,000 --> 00:17:03,040 Speaker 2: especially to a young child. 299 00:17:03,360 --> 00:17:05,640 Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly, I mean there's plenty of danger just from 300 00:17:05,680 --> 00:17:06,080 Speaker 3: falling in. 301 00:17:06,680 --> 00:17:21,920 Speaker 2: Yeah. Now, another interesting ice related phenomena I wanted to 302 00:17:22,000 --> 00:17:24,800 Speaker 2: talk about here. There's less to this, and this will 303 00:17:24,800 --> 00:17:27,959 Speaker 2: be kind of quick, I guess, but I ran across 304 00:17:28,480 --> 00:17:31,680 Speaker 2: this idea of ice blink. It's not so much a 305 00:17:31,760 --> 00:17:35,520 Speaker 2: property of the ice itself, but rather an optical interaction. 306 00:17:35,840 --> 00:17:39,680 Speaker 2: It's essentially a glare in the sky over an ice field. 307 00:17:40,480 --> 00:17:44,160 Speaker 2: Though not to be confused with various other various actual 308 00:17:44,200 --> 00:17:47,000 Speaker 2: forms of mirages, such as the fata morgana, which we've 309 00:17:47,000 --> 00:17:50,040 Speaker 2: discussed in the show before. These are also found in 310 00:17:50,080 --> 00:17:53,560 Speaker 2: the Arctic, and there's an entire chapter in Lopez's book 311 00:17:53,640 --> 00:17:57,200 Speaker 2: Arctic Dreams where he talks about about this, about the 312 00:17:57,280 --> 00:18:01,119 Speaker 2: northern lights and so forth. But basically, ice blink is 313 00:18:01,280 --> 00:18:04,879 Speaker 2: just the bright white reflection in the clouds above an 314 00:18:04,920 --> 00:18:08,159 Speaker 2: expanse of ice. So if you're at sea in the 315 00:18:08,280 --> 00:18:11,760 Speaker 2: Arctic and you see ice blink in the distance and 316 00:18:11,880 --> 00:18:13,760 Speaker 2: you know what you're looking at for and looking at, 317 00:18:13,800 --> 00:18:16,359 Speaker 2: of course you can navigate by it, knowing that this 318 00:18:16,680 --> 00:18:19,600 Speaker 2: means that there's likely a large expanse of ice in 319 00:18:19,720 --> 00:18:25,080 Speaker 2: that direction. Likewise, the opposite is true with water sky. 320 00:18:25,359 --> 00:18:28,240 Speaker 2: So if you're on a great expanse of ice and 321 00:18:28,440 --> 00:18:31,920 Speaker 2: the overcast sky is bright with reflected light, you might 322 00:18:32,040 --> 00:18:35,399 Speaker 2: see a dark patch of sky in the distance that 323 00:18:35,560 --> 00:18:38,760 Speaker 2: indicates a body of open water beneath it. So in 324 00:18:38,840 --> 00:18:40,680 Speaker 2: other words, it's you know, it's the presence of dark 325 00:18:40,760 --> 00:18:44,240 Speaker 2: clouds over an area of open water in a region 326 00:18:44,320 --> 00:18:48,560 Speaker 2: that is otherwise frozen. And this, you know, these are 327 00:18:48,680 --> 00:18:53,440 Speaker 2: signs that indigenous peoples would have known about and used 328 00:18:53,480 --> 00:18:57,000 Speaker 2: to navigate, and techniques that then would have been adopted 329 00:18:57,080 --> 00:19:00,840 Speaker 2: by individuals exploring from other parts to the world. It 330 00:19:00,920 --> 00:19:03,959 Speaker 2: reminds me of some of what we discussed in our 331 00:19:04,000 --> 00:19:09,560 Speaker 2: episodes about Pacific navigation and how there are signs that 332 00:19:10,440 --> 00:19:13,320 Speaker 2: the informed mind could look for in the sky that 333 00:19:13,359 --> 00:19:15,000 Speaker 2: would indicate the presence of an island. 334 00:19:15,320 --> 00:19:17,200 Speaker 3: Yeah, that's right. So listeners, if you haven't heard, we 335 00:19:17,240 --> 00:19:20,520 Speaker 3: did a series a while back on yeah, techniques of 336 00:19:20,680 --> 00:19:25,560 Speaker 3: navigation used by Pacific island peoples to make long sea 337 00:19:25,720 --> 00:19:29,480 Speaker 3: voyages without modern instruments and stuff like that, and it's 338 00:19:29,520 --> 00:19:35,159 Speaker 3: amazing how much information you can actually get from things 339 00:19:35,400 --> 00:19:41,879 Speaker 3: like the stars, sea currents, birds and things like that 340 00:19:42,240 --> 00:19:46,520 Speaker 3: that the untrained I would never understand to interpret as 341 00:19:46,880 --> 00:19:50,000 Speaker 3: relevant information about where the position of an island was 342 00:19:50,640 --> 00:19:53,680 Speaker 3: relative to you. But that was truly one of the 343 00:19:53,720 --> 00:19:56,679 Speaker 3: most mind blowing series I think we've ever done, because 344 00:19:56,760 --> 00:20:00,199 Speaker 3: it just opened my eyes to the fact that there 345 00:20:00,600 --> 00:20:03,960 Speaker 3: is so much information in the world that can be 346 00:20:04,080 --> 00:20:07,000 Speaker 3: exploited if you know what to look for, and to 347 00:20:07,119 --> 00:20:08,840 Speaker 3: a person who doesn't know what to look for, it's 348 00:20:08,880 --> 00:20:12,000 Speaker 3: completely invisible. You'd have no idea that it corresponded to 349 00:20:12,040 --> 00:20:14,640 Speaker 3: any kind of navigationally relevant facts. 350 00:20:15,160 --> 00:20:17,320 Speaker 2: Absolutely. Yeah, it's such a fascinating topic. 351 00:20:17,800 --> 00:20:19,960 Speaker 3: And anyway, Yeah, this is another thing like that. I 352 00:20:20,080 --> 00:20:22,239 Speaker 3: never would have thought of this, but this is very 353 00:20:22,320 --> 00:20:27,639 Speaker 3: interesting navigating by the reflection of the surface color of 354 00:20:28,000 --> 00:20:30,680 Speaker 3: a landscape over the horizon as it reflects on the 355 00:20:31,600 --> 00:20:32,440 Speaker 3: clouds in the sky. 356 00:20:33,040 --> 00:20:35,320 Speaker 2: Yeah, because to the untrained eye you would just think, oh, 357 00:20:35,440 --> 00:20:38,639 Speaker 2: dark cloud in the distance. There's a white cloud in 358 00:20:38,680 --> 00:20:42,520 Speaker 2: the distance, but yeah, to know what it means, we 359 00:20:42,640 --> 00:20:44,680 Speaker 2: can give you vital information about where you're going. 360 00:20:45,080 --> 00:20:48,920 Speaker 3: Now, speaking of the color of ice and of sea ice, 361 00:20:49,040 --> 00:20:52,320 Speaker 3: this brings me to something I wanted to talk about today, 362 00:20:52,880 --> 00:20:57,600 Speaker 3: which is the color of icebergs. I was thinking about 363 00:20:57,680 --> 00:21:02,159 Speaker 3: how most icebergs, of most icebergs and sea ice and 364 00:21:02,720 --> 00:21:05,760 Speaker 3: ice sheets you see are basically white in color. But 365 00:21:05,840 --> 00:21:11,520 Speaker 3: occasionally I will see photos of icebergs that have streaks 366 00:21:11,960 --> 00:21:15,640 Speaker 3: or whole surfaces that are other colors, maybe blue icebergs 367 00:21:15,680 --> 00:21:19,520 Speaker 3: that look very beautiful and strange, and I wonder what 368 00:21:19,800 --> 00:21:22,399 Speaker 3: makes the difference there, So I looked into this a 369 00:21:22,440 --> 00:21:26,440 Speaker 3: little bit. Now, most icebergs are indeed white in color, 370 00:21:26,560 --> 00:21:29,520 Speaker 3: but of course sometimes icebergs of other colors can be found, 371 00:21:30,080 --> 00:21:33,679 Speaker 3: apparently especially coming off of Antarctica, and we can talk 372 00:21:33,720 --> 00:21:38,320 Speaker 3: about reasons for that. But the white, relatively opaque surface 373 00:21:38,400 --> 00:21:43,679 Speaker 3: of a common iceberg is caused by how ice accumulates, 374 00:21:43,920 --> 00:21:47,560 Speaker 3: which is by adding layers of snow. In most cases, 375 00:21:48,200 --> 00:21:53,000 Speaker 3: so icebergs typically begin as part of a glacier or 376 00:21:53,000 --> 00:21:56,880 Speaker 3: a polar ice sheet, which eventually breaks off in pieces 377 00:21:57,040 --> 00:21:59,960 Speaker 3: and floats away in the ocean. So it originally formed 378 00:22:00,359 --> 00:22:03,600 Speaker 3: along with the rest of the glacier. And the way 379 00:22:03,680 --> 00:22:06,560 Speaker 3: that forms is snow falls down from the sky, It 380 00:22:06,720 --> 00:22:10,840 Speaker 3: piles up, it gets compressed, and if it doesn't melt seasonally, 381 00:22:11,160 --> 00:22:13,880 Speaker 3: more snow falls on top of it and just keeps 382 00:22:14,040 --> 00:22:16,440 Speaker 3: piling up and getting more and more compressed until it 383 00:22:16,560 --> 00:22:21,000 Speaker 3: forms this solid chunk or sheet of ice. This process 384 00:22:21,080 --> 00:22:25,119 Speaker 3: can become cumulative over many snowfalls, many seasons, many years, 385 00:22:25,200 --> 00:22:29,560 Speaker 3: and eventually it forms this glacier, and then a piece 386 00:22:29,640 --> 00:22:32,119 Speaker 3: of this glacier or ice sheet can break off and 387 00:22:32,200 --> 00:22:34,959 Speaker 3: float away in the water. So what determines the difference 388 00:22:35,000 --> 00:22:38,600 Speaker 3: in color, Well, when you see a white iceberg, what 389 00:22:38,720 --> 00:22:43,760 Speaker 3: you're seeing there, apparently is the relatively uncompressed upper or 390 00:22:43,880 --> 00:22:47,960 Speaker 3: outer layers of the snowpack that is forming the ice 391 00:22:48,040 --> 00:22:54,680 Speaker 3: on top of it. That relatively uncompressed snow contains lots 392 00:22:54,720 --> 00:22:59,560 Speaker 3: of little imperfections like air bubbles especially, and just lots 393 00:22:59,560 --> 00:23:06,400 Speaker 3: of little reflective surfaces within the relatively low density outer layers. 394 00:23:06,920 --> 00:23:10,960 Speaker 3: And these little imperfections and air bubbles and things tend 395 00:23:11,080 --> 00:23:15,680 Speaker 3: to scatter light. They reflect all frequencies of light equally, 396 00:23:16,080 --> 00:23:18,760 Speaker 3: And of course when you combine all colors of light, 397 00:23:18,880 --> 00:23:21,680 Speaker 3: you get white light, so that light bounces off and 398 00:23:21,880 --> 00:23:25,520 Speaker 3: it appears white to our eyes. But when you're making 399 00:23:25,560 --> 00:23:28,639 Speaker 3: a glacier, as each layer of ice becomes more deeply 400 00:23:28,920 --> 00:23:33,080 Speaker 3: buried in a glacier or iceberg, it gets pressed harder 401 00:23:33,160 --> 00:23:36,040 Speaker 3: by the layers above, so new snowfalls the ice load 402 00:23:36,080 --> 00:23:39,360 Speaker 3: above it becomes heavier, and the imperfections tend to get 403 00:23:39,800 --> 00:23:43,879 Speaker 3: squeezed out, like air bubbles get compressed and removed. The 404 00:23:44,000 --> 00:23:47,600 Speaker 3: ice crystals that were originally snowflakes get squeezed and they 405 00:23:47,720 --> 00:23:51,600 Speaker 3: form larger crystals of dense ice. So this dens or 406 00:23:51,680 --> 00:23:57,280 Speaker 3: more compressed ice does not reflect all frequencies of light equally. Instead, 407 00:23:57,359 --> 00:24:00,000 Speaker 3: it starts to behave in a different way. It absorbs 408 00:24:00,080 --> 00:24:03,919 Speaker 3: or some wavelengths, especially longer wavelengths toward the red end 409 00:24:04,000 --> 00:24:07,359 Speaker 3: of the spectrum colors like red, orange, and yellow, whereas 410 00:24:07,480 --> 00:24:10,960 Speaker 3: shorter wavelengths on the green, blue, indigo, violet into the 411 00:24:10,960 --> 00:24:14,080 Speaker 3: spectrum are less likely to be absorbed and more likely 412 00:24:14,200 --> 00:24:17,440 Speaker 3: to bounce back out. So if you see an iceberg 413 00:24:17,520 --> 00:24:20,560 Speaker 3: that looks opaque white on the outside, it is probably 414 00:24:20,840 --> 00:24:25,639 Speaker 3: covered with snow or uncompressed surface ice or ice that 415 00:24:25,760 --> 00:24:28,760 Speaker 3: has been weathered and scratched up in some way. If 416 00:24:28,800 --> 00:24:31,760 Speaker 3: you see an iceberg that looks a more cloudy blue, 417 00:24:32,320 --> 00:24:36,240 Speaker 3: you're probably seeing the exposed, compressed layers of ice from 418 00:24:36,280 --> 00:24:40,160 Speaker 3: an older glacier or from deep inside the glacier formation. 419 00:24:41,119 --> 00:24:44,440 Speaker 3: And sometimes icebergs also look blue and a bit more 420 00:24:44,600 --> 00:24:49,600 Speaker 3: translucenter even transparent when they somehow capsize in the water, 421 00:24:49,880 --> 00:24:53,440 Speaker 3: bringing up the smoother blue portion that was once under 422 00:24:53,560 --> 00:24:57,280 Speaker 3: the waterline. And there are also some other formation methods 423 00:24:57,320 --> 00:25:02,000 Speaker 3: for blue spectrum and translucent bergs, and frankly, with these 424 00:25:02,280 --> 00:25:05,560 Speaker 3: they look not only beautiful but downright shocking. 425 00:25:05,800 --> 00:25:06,000 Speaker 2: Rob. 426 00:25:06,119 --> 00:25:08,920 Speaker 3: I've attached a couple of examples for you to look 427 00:25:08,960 --> 00:25:11,040 Speaker 3: at here, and it's almost beyond words. 428 00:25:11,680 --> 00:25:15,480 Speaker 2: Yeah, this looks like a potential fragment of an amazing 429 00:25:15,680 --> 00:25:19,600 Speaker 2: airbrush mural on the side of a van from the 430 00:25:19,960 --> 00:25:23,840 Speaker 2: late seventies early eighties that is somehow ended up in 431 00:25:23,880 --> 00:25:27,320 Speaker 2: the Arctic. It's like it has that much. It's like 432 00:25:27,520 --> 00:25:30,240 Speaker 2: marbled looking as well, like it's just amazing. 433 00:25:31,040 --> 00:25:32,959 Speaker 3: Yeah, this is like held in the hand of an 434 00:25:33,000 --> 00:25:35,960 Speaker 3: airbrush wizard. I think it's like, I don't know, breathing 435 00:25:36,040 --> 00:25:37,200 Speaker 3: smoke on it or something. 436 00:25:37,680 --> 00:25:37,880 Speaker 2: Yeah. 437 00:25:38,880 --> 00:25:41,960 Speaker 3: Now, to see ice really looking blue, you don't actually 438 00:25:42,040 --> 00:25:45,400 Speaker 3: have to look for an iceberg floating in the water 439 00:25:45,480 --> 00:25:48,800 Speaker 3: that has flipped over. Somehow. You can see this, for example, 440 00:25:49,000 --> 00:25:53,119 Speaker 3: in cracks and crevasses, in ice sheets and glaciers. I 441 00:25:53,200 --> 00:25:55,240 Speaker 3: dug up some pictures for you to look at here, rob, 442 00:25:55,600 --> 00:25:57,119 Speaker 3: But if you look this up at home, you can 443 00:25:57,160 --> 00:26:00,359 Speaker 3: see it for yourself. Look up like glacier crevass. Often 444 00:26:00,960 --> 00:26:03,320 Speaker 3: the way it will appear is that the top layer 445 00:26:04,000 --> 00:26:06,600 Speaker 3: is opaque white like we're used to seeing. You know, 446 00:26:06,640 --> 00:26:10,120 Speaker 3: where the snow has been piled on. But if you're 447 00:26:10,119 --> 00:26:14,000 Speaker 3: able to look down into the crack, you will see 448 00:26:14,520 --> 00:26:18,240 Speaker 3: progressively bluer and bluer shades, Like the light coming out 449 00:26:18,359 --> 00:26:21,280 Speaker 3: is a deeper blue the deeper you go down. And 450 00:26:21,400 --> 00:26:25,160 Speaker 3: again this is a result of that ice being more compressed. 451 00:26:26,160 --> 00:26:29,359 Speaker 2: And the blue can look just quite dark to the 452 00:26:29,440 --> 00:26:33,040 Speaker 2: untrained eye. You would almost think artificially blue. Yeah, like, 453 00:26:33,160 --> 00:26:35,520 Speaker 2: what happened to this glacier? What kind of toilet water 454 00:26:36,800 --> 00:26:38,360 Speaker 2: was transformed into this glacier? 455 00:26:48,720 --> 00:26:51,520 Speaker 3: No. I was reading about this in an article for 456 00:26:51,640 --> 00:26:56,240 Speaker 3: Scientific American by Catherine Wright called icebergs can be green, black, 457 00:26:56,320 --> 00:27:00,200 Speaker 3: striped or even rainbow. And one of the things this 458 00:27:00,359 --> 00:27:04,640 Speaker 3: article mentions is its sites an expert named DANIELA. Janssen 459 00:27:04,760 --> 00:27:08,240 Speaker 3: who is a geophysicist at the Alfred Wegner Institute for 460 00:27:08,359 --> 00:27:11,960 Speaker 3: Polar and Marine Research in Germany, and this researcher talks 461 00:27:12,000 --> 00:27:15,680 Speaker 3: about a different iceberg formation process, which is the direct 462 00:27:16,000 --> 00:27:21,080 Speaker 3: freezing of sea water leading to the creation of marine ice. So, 463 00:27:21,160 --> 00:27:24,040 Speaker 3: according to Jansen, this kind of ice can build up 464 00:27:24,200 --> 00:27:28,160 Speaker 3: underneath ice shelves, and an ice shelf is where part 465 00:27:28,280 --> 00:27:32,399 Speaker 3: of a land based glacier extends past dry land and 466 00:27:32,600 --> 00:27:35,200 Speaker 3: juts out over the sea, so it's like a shelf 467 00:27:35,359 --> 00:27:39,679 Speaker 3: over the water. And under the ice shelves of Antarctica, 468 00:27:40,320 --> 00:27:45,160 Speaker 3: actual frozen seawater can agglomerate into formations that can eventually 469 00:27:45,280 --> 00:27:50,120 Speaker 3: become icebergs, Whereas the snow that falls layer by layer 470 00:27:50,200 --> 00:27:53,440 Speaker 3: and accumulates into a glacier on land is mostly pure water. 471 00:27:54,119 --> 00:27:57,040 Speaker 3: Ice that accumulates by the freezing of sea water, which 472 00:27:57,119 --> 00:28:00,560 Speaker 3: is more rare, comes with a lot of stuff in it. 473 00:28:01,160 --> 00:28:04,560 Speaker 3: So because it's seawater, right, so it can have mineral 474 00:28:04,800 --> 00:28:08,840 Speaker 3: dust and just you know, grains of rocks and various 475 00:28:08,920 --> 00:28:12,320 Speaker 3: kinds of minerals. That can bring different colors to a 476 00:28:12,440 --> 00:28:15,200 Speaker 3: resulting iceberg that comes from the freezing of the seawater. 477 00:28:15,720 --> 00:28:17,920 Speaker 3: Maybe it has a lot of iron particles in it, 478 00:28:18,160 --> 00:28:23,720 Speaker 3: or maybe it has black looking you know, volcanic lava minerals. 479 00:28:24,720 --> 00:28:27,399 Speaker 3: It can also have a lot of dead stuff in it, 480 00:28:28,240 --> 00:28:32,480 Speaker 3: dead or living organic matter. And apparently marine ice that 481 00:28:32,640 --> 00:28:35,080 Speaker 3: forms this way out of seawater with a lot of 482 00:28:35,320 --> 00:28:39,440 Speaker 3: dead cells from organic matter can tend to be yellow 483 00:28:39,760 --> 00:28:42,720 Speaker 3: or green in color. And so if you've ever seeing 484 00:28:42,800 --> 00:28:48,160 Speaker 3: yellow or green icebergs, especially coming from around Antarctica, because 485 00:28:48,600 --> 00:28:51,920 Speaker 3: these types of marine ice iceberg, they tend to form 486 00:28:52,040 --> 00:28:54,600 Speaker 3: only in very cold conditions because again they have to 487 00:28:54,640 --> 00:28:57,720 Speaker 3: be formed out of seawater. Seawater, having greater salt content, 488 00:28:57,880 --> 00:29:01,560 Speaker 3: is harder to freeze than fresh water. So basically all 489 00:29:01,600 --> 00:29:04,960 Speaker 3: of this, like multicolored ice made out of seawater, only 490 00:29:05,040 --> 00:29:09,160 Speaker 3: forms around Antarctica. Anything from the Arctic North will typically 491 00:29:09,240 --> 00:29:14,120 Speaker 3: be white or blue. This marine ice that forms around 492 00:29:14,160 --> 00:29:18,920 Speaker 3: Antarctica sometimes has these like gross amazing you know, like 493 00:29:19,080 --> 00:29:23,840 Speaker 3: green jade or yellow death colors, and a lot of 494 00:29:23,880 --> 00:29:27,800 Speaker 3: this tends to be organic contaminants. Meanwhile, marine ice that 495 00:29:27,920 --> 00:29:31,480 Speaker 3: forms underneath these ice shelves, but doesn't have much in 496 00:29:31,520 --> 00:29:34,600 Speaker 3: the way of contaminants, tends to be very translucent or 497 00:29:34,640 --> 00:29:37,480 Speaker 3: even almost transparent, appearing you can see deep into it. 498 00:29:38,080 --> 00:29:40,800 Speaker 3: So this is where you get these these strange looking 499 00:29:40,880 --> 00:29:43,720 Speaker 3: bergs that are almost as clear as glass and a 500 00:29:43,840 --> 00:29:47,080 Speaker 3: very dark color, almost a deep blue or even a black. 501 00:29:47,520 --> 00:29:50,719 Speaker 3: You can also get striped icebergs, and this happens when 502 00:29:50,760 --> 00:29:53,280 Speaker 3: you have an ice shelf hanging out over the ocean 503 00:29:53,480 --> 00:29:58,600 Speaker 3: and cracks form along the submerged portion, and these areas 504 00:29:58,640 --> 00:30:01,920 Speaker 3: can flood with seawater, forming stripes of different colors and 505 00:30:02,040 --> 00:30:05,640 Speaker 3: opacity than the surrounding ice. So maybe you've got some 506 00:30:05,920 --> 00:30:08,880 Speaker 3: ice that's, you know, the regular sort of blue ice, 507 00:30:09,320 --> 00:30:12,480 Speaker 3: and then it fills in with some marine ice from 508 00:30:12,560 --> 00:30:15,080 Speaker 3: seawater that had a bunch of dead organic matter in it, 509 00:30:15,160 --> 00:30:17,840 Speaker 3: so it might have like stripes of yellow or stripes 510 00:30:17,880 --> 00:30:21,920 Speaker 3: of green. But I want to move on to another 511 00:30:22,080 --> 00:30:29,720 Speaker 3: iceberg related topic, which is icebergs beyond Earth. So you 512 00:30:29,840 --> 00:30:32,400 Speaker 3: might kind of wonder, well, how could that even be possible, 513 00:30:32,480 --> 00:30:35,760 Speaker 3: because we know that Earth is the only planet in 514 00:30:35,800 --> 00:30:38,800 Speaker 3: the Solar System with liquid water oceans on the surface. 515 00:30:38,920 --> 00:30:42,200 Speaker 3: Other planets may have had them long ago in the past, 516 00:30:42,320 --> 00:30:45,440 Speaker 3: but not today. We do know that there are some 517 00:30:46,960 --> 00:30:49,240 Speaker 3: some other objects, some moons in the Solar System that 518 00:30:49,360 --> 00:30:53,360 Speaker 3: have liquid oceans underneath the surface, like Jupiter's moon Europa. 519 00:30:54,000 --> 00:30:56,880 Speaker 3: But there is one other object in the Solar System 520 00:30:57,280 --> 00:31:01,240 Speaker 3: that does have liquid seas in lakes and rivers on 521 00:31:01,400 --> 00:31:04,920 Speaker 3: its surface, though they are not made out of water. 522 00:31:05,400 --> 00:31:09,760 Speaker 3: That space object is Saturn's moon Titan, which is Saturn's 523 00:31:09,840 --> 00:31:12,400 Speaker 3: largest moon, the second largest moon in the whole Solar 524 00:31:12,480 --> 00:31:15,920 Speaker 3: System after Jupiter's Ganymede, and the only moon in the 525 00:31:15,960 --> 00:31:20,200 Speaker 3: Solar System with a dense atmosphere which is made mostly 526 00:31:20,320 --> 00:31:24,600 Speaker 3: of nitrogen and is in fact extremely thick. The atmospheric 527 00:31:24,680 --> 00:31:27,600 Speaker 3: pressure on the surface of Titan is about fifty or 528 00:31:27,640 --> 00:31:31,720 Speaker 3: sixty percent greater than the pressure at sea level on Earth. 529 00:31:31,920 --> 00:31:35,760 Speaker 3: So one comparison I've come across is that just standing 530 00:31:35,920 --> 00:31:40,080 Speaker 3: in the air on the surface of Titan would feel 531 00:31:40,160 --> 00:31:41,880 Speaker 3: kind of like it would be a level of pressure 532 00:31:41,960 --> 00:31:46,000 Speaker 3: similar to being fifteen meters or fifty feet underwater on Earth. 533 00:31:46,480 --> 00:31:51,040 Speaker 3: Oh wow, that's thick. Titan is also extremely cold, with 534 00:31:51,120 --> 00:31:53,920 Speaker 3: an average surface temperature of one hundred and eighty three 535 00:31:54,560 --> 00:31:57,280 Speaker 3: of a negative one hundred and eighty three degrees celsius 536 00:31:57,720 --> 00:32:01,440 Speaker 3: or negative two hundred and ninety seven degrees fahrenheit. That's 537 00:32:01,560 --> 00:32:04,640 Speaker 3: really cold. Of course, that is too cold to support 538 00:32:04,800 --> 00:32:07,000 Speaker 3: liquid water on the surface. It is not going to 539 00:32:07,080 --> 00:32:12,120 Speaker 3: have water oceans. But nevertheless, Titan does have large stable 540 00:32:12,320 --> 00:32:16,600 Speaker 3: systems of rivers, lakes, and seas made out of not water, 541 00:32:17,200 --> 00:32:24,240 Speaker 3: but liquid hydrocarbons, especially liquid methane, ethane, and some liquid nitrogen. 542 00:32:24,680 --> 00:32:27,200 Speaker 3: So methane is a hydrocarbon that we know here on 543 00:32:27,320 --> 00:32:31,240 Speaker 3: Earth as well chemical formula H four. On Earth, it's 544 00:32:31,280 --> 00:32:34,240 Speaker 3: pretty much always in the form of a gas. Ethane. 545 00:32:34,440 --> 00:32:39,000 Speaker 3: Another hydrocarbon is C two H six, and together methane 546 00:32:39,080 --> 00:32:43,600 Speaker 3: and ethane contribute to a kind of atmospheric chemical cycle 547 00:32:43,760 --> 00:32:47,400 Speaker 3: on Titan that has some resemblances to but also some 548 00:32:47,600 --> 00:32:51,840 Speaker 3: differences from the water cycle on Earth. So, like, methane 549 00:32:51,960 --> 00:32:56,320 Speaker 3: is released apparently from deep inside the interior of Titan, 550 00:32:57,320 --> 00:33:00,600 Speaker 3: and then it forms a sort of weather system. It 551 00:33:00,720 --> 00:33:04,320 Speaker 3: gets broken down by sunlight in the upper atmosphere, and 552 00:33:04,480 --> 00:33:07,720 Speaker 3: there are there is some kind of methane or methane 553 00:33:08,600 --> 00:33:13,160 Speaker 3: downstream product weather system where you know, these these organic 554 00:33:13,280 --> 00:33:17,360 Speaker 3: molecules fall down from above, so you get like rains 555 00:33:17,480 --> 00:33:22,000 Speaker 3: and snows that have these hydrocarbon features. So one of 556 00:33:22,120 --> 00:33:26,960 Speaker 3: the consequences of this wet hydrocarbon environment is a surface 557 00:33:27,120 --> 00:33:31,080 Speaker 3: with snaking rivers and massive lakes of liquid hydrocarbons, especially 558 00:33:31,280 --> 00:33:36,320 Speaker 3: clustered around the Moon's polar regions. So the three largest 559 00:33:36,440 --> 00:33:40,240 Speaker 3: of these hydrocarbon seas in order of size are Kraken Mare, 560 00:33:40,840 --> 00:33:45,360 Speaker 3: Lygea Mare, and Punga Mare, which are all situated around 561 00:33:45,360 --> 00:33:48,600 Speaker 3: the Moon's north pole. Mythology notes, by the way, I 562 00:33:48,680 --> 00:33:51,880 Speaker 3: think we know the kraken, but the Punga is the 563 00:33:51,960 --> 00:33:54,720 Speaker 3: name of a being in Maori mythology who is a 564 00:33:54,960 --> 00:33:59,920 Speaker 3: sun of the sea deity Tangaroa, but also the fog 565 00:34:00,040 --> 00:34:03,720 Speaker 3: there are of all creatures considered strange and ugly, including 566 00:34:03,880 --> 00:34:08,480 Speaker 3: lizards and sharks. Ligia was the name was a name 567 00:34:08,520 --> 00:34:11,960 Speaker 3: that appeared in Greek mythology in multiple contexts, but always 568 00:34:11,960 --> 00:34:16,239 Speaker 3: associated with minor seed deities like the Nereids or the Sirens, 569 00:34:17,040 --> 00:34:19,880 Speaker 3: and also in a creepy Edgar Allan Poe short story 570 00:34:19,920 --> 00:34:25,600 Speaker 3: where I think the deal is Ligia was the narrator's wife, 571 00:34:25,680 --> 00:34:27,759 Speaker 3: and she died, and then he marries another woman, and 572 00:34:27,840 --> 00:34:30,440 Speaker 3: then she dies, but then resurrects from the dead as 573 00:34:30,520 --> 00:34:31,800 Speaker 3: his first wife, Ligia. 574 00:34:32,400 --> 00:34:34,240 Speaker 2: This would be the tomb of Ligia, right. 575 00:34:35,160 --> 00:34:37,200 Speaker 3: I think so, And that's the one that has the 576 00:34:37,239 --> 00:34:38,480 Speaker 3: poem the Conqueror Worm. 577 00:34:39,200 --> 00:34:42,560 Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, And there was a Vincent Price adaptation of 578 00:34:42,640 --> 00:34:43,480 Speaker 2: this one to some time. 579 00:34:43,880 --> 00:34:47,880 Speaker 3: Yeah. So anyway, you've got these, Maria, These these seas 580 00:34:48,040 --> 00:34:50,520 Speaker 3: or lakes, I don't know what the you know, whether 581 00:34:50,600 --> 00:34:52,839 Speaker 3: you want to call them sees or lakes. The biggest one, 582 00:34:53,280 --> 00:34:56,200 Speaker 3: I think has been compared roughly to the size of 583 00:34:56,239 --> 00:35:00,239 Speaker 3: the Caspian Sea on Earth. I think Lygia Marea seen 584 00:35:00,320 --> 00:35:04,120 Speaker 3: compared roughly to the size of Lake superior A. But whatever, 585 00:35:04,280 --> 00:35:07,960 Speaker 3: how we classify them. These bodies of liquid hydrocarbons on 586 00:35:08,280 --> 00:35:13,759 Speaker 3: Titan were documented extensively through radar imaging carried out by 587 00:35:13,880 --> 00:35:17,480 Speaker 3: the Cassini Mission orbiter over a period of many years 588 00:35:17,600 --> 00:35:20,520 Speaker 3: in the in the two thousands and twenty tens. So 589 00:35:20,719 --> 00:35:23,280 Speaker 3: I wanted to zoom in on some of these different 590 00:35:23,400 --> 00:35:27,440 Speaker 3: radar images of Legmre, the second largest sea on Titan, 591 00:35:28,400 --> 00:35:31,840 Speaker 3: and these photos were taken at intervals between two thousand 592 00:35:31,840 --> 00:35:35,000 Speaker 3: and seven and twenty fifteen. Rob, I've got these for 593 00:35:35,080 --> 00:35:39,280 Speaker 3: you to look at here. So what we see appears 594 00:35:39,400 --> 00:35:42,919 Speaker 3: to be a sort of flower shaped peninsula of land 595 00:35:43,200 --> 00:35:46,920 Speaker 3: jetting out into the sea and off of one of 596 00:35:46,960 --> 00:35:50,840 Speaker 3: the petals of this flower of land, there is a mystery. 597 00:35:51,640 --> 00:35:54,040 Speaker 3: In the image from two thousand and seven, the land 598 00:35:54,360 --> 00:35:58,160 Speaker 3: terminates and there's just nothing but dark lake beyond it. Then, 599 00:35:58,680 --> 00:36:02,200 Speaker 3: in an image from twenty thirteen, suddenly there is what 600 00:36:02,400 --> 00:36:06,040 Speaker 3: appears to be an island off the same coastal feature. 601 00:36:07,000 --> 00:36:10,840 Speaker 3: Then in another image from twenty fourteen, the island seems 602 00:36:10,880 --> 00:36:14,520 Speaker 3: to have faded into just a wisp of discoloration, something 603 00:36:14,560 --> 00:36:17,239 Speaker 3: that looks like it could be you know, I'm using 604 00:36:17,520 --> 00:36:19,439 Speaker 3: too much of an Earth analogy here, but it looks 605 00:36:19,480 --> 00:36:21,040 Speaker 3: like it could be like an atoll, or like a 606 00:36:21,120 --> 00:36:26,280 Speaker 3: bank of shallows. And then by twenty fifteen, the island 607 00:36:26,320 --> 00:36:30,239 Speaker 3: has vanished completely and only the dark liquid remains once more. 608 00:36:31,040 --> 00:36:34,760 Speaker 3: What the heck or how is the topography of Titan 609 00:36:34,960 --> 00:36:38,920 Speaker 3: changing like that? Are islands appearing and disappearing on this 610 00:36:39,080 --> 00:36:43,200 Speaker 3: alien sea? So these types of anomalies have been referred 611 00:36:43,239 --> 00:36:46,240 Speaker 3: to in the press as the magic islands of Titan, 612 00:36:46,400 --> 00:36:50,000 Speaker 3: since they seem to appear and disappear when we're not looking, 613 00:36:51,080 --> 00:36:53,520 Speaker 3: and it's still not known for sure what they are, 614 00:36:53,719 --> 00:36:57,680 Speaker 3: but there are some ideas, some proposals. You would need 615 00:36:58,120 --> 00:37:01,279 Speaker 3: something that would be present long enough to have a 616 00:37:01,360 --> 00:37:04,880 Speaker 3: reasonable chance of being caught in images taken by the orbiter, 617 00:37:05,560 --> 00:37:09,680 Speaker 3: but also something that would disappear completely within a couple 618 00:37:09,760 --> 00:37:14,400 Speaker 3: of years. So there have been various suggestions, including floating 619 00:37:14,520 --> 00:37:18,799 Speaker 3: hydrocarbon solids like particles that have fallen from the atmosphere, 620 00:37:18,920 --> 00:37:21,640 Speaker 3: maybe a sort of carbon based dust floating on the lake, 621 00:37:22,440 --> 00:37:26,799 Speaker 3: or perhaps massive upwellings of nitrogen gas bubbles appearing as 622 00:37:26,880 --> 00:37:30,200 Speaker 3: bright spots on the radar image. But just recently in 623 00:37:30,320 --> 00:37:35,160 Speaker 3: January twenty twenty four, a group of researchers suggested another possibility, 624 00:37:35,640 --> 00:37:43,000 Speaker 3: which is hydrocarbon icebergs, basically porous honeycomb like frozen masses 625 00:37:43,120 --> 00:37:47,359 Speaker 3: of hydrocarbons. So the paper in question here is by 626 00:37:47,800 --> 00:37:54,799 Speaker 3: Zinting Uau, Julia Garver, Xijiang, and Patricia mcgugen. It's called 627 00:37:54,880 --> 00:37:57,960 Speaker 3: the Fate of Simple Organics on Titan's Surface, a theoretical 628 00:37:58,040 --> 00:38:03,319 Speaker 3: perspective published in Geophysical Research Letters. So the authors here 629 00:38:03,400 --> 00:38:06,040 Speaker 3: are saying, in the atmosphere of Titan, you've got these 630 00:38:06,400 --> 00:38:10,920 Speaker 3: simple compounds like methane that get broken down, maybe by 631 00:38:11,040 --> 00:38:16,040 Speaker 3: exposure to sunlight, and they recombine and end up transformed 632 00:38:16,160 --> 00:38:20,319 Speaker 3: into bigger, more complex organic molecules. And many of these 633 00:38:20,400 --> 00:38:23,520 Speaker 3: carbon based compounds freeze solid and fall to the surface. 634 00:38:24,640 --> 00:38:28,320 Speaker 3: Now what happens when these hydrocarbon ices fall on the 635 00:38:28,440 --> 00:38:31,960 Speaker 3: surface of Titan's lakes. It seems that most of them 636 00:38:32,320 --> 00:38:35,560 Speaker 3: probably sink to the bottom, becoming new layers of lake 637 00:38:35,640 --> 00:38:41,360 Speaker 3: bed sediment. Because remember it's peculiar to water that frozen 638 00:38:41,480 --> 00:38:44,840 Speaker 3: water floats on the surface of liquid water. Most frozen 639 00:38:44,920 --> 00:38:48,000 Speaker 3: solids increase in density and would be likely to sink 640 00:38:48,080 --> 00:38:52,520 Speaker 3: in liquid, but not all frozen hydrocarbons would sink. The 641 00:38:52,640 --> 00:38:57,680 Speaker 3: author's right quote, imagine a sponge full of holes. If 642 00:38:57,760 --> 00:39:00,200 Speaker 3: the solids are like this, with twenty five percent to 643 00:39:00,320 --> 00:39:04,080 Speaker 3: sixty percent of their volume being empty space, they can float. 644 00:39:04,800 --> 00:39:08,839 Speaker 3: Some solids, like hydrogen cyanide ice can also float due 645 00:39:08,920 --> 00:39:12,560 Speaker 3: to surface tension effects. And I was reading in a 646 00:39:12,640 --> 00:39:17,719 Speaker 3: press release the lead author ut San Antonio planetary scientist 647 00:39:18,120 --> 00:39:22,040 Speaker 3: Zinting Yu has compared these icebergs to the way that 648 00:39:22,320 --> 00:39:26,360 Speaker 3: porous volcanic pummice can float on the surface of oceans 649 00:39:26,400 --> 00:39:30,719 Speaker 3: on Earth before eventually becoming saturated and sinking. So in 650 00:39:30,800 --> 00:39:34,280 Speaker 3: this paper, the authors created a model of how various 651 00:39:34,360 --> 00:39:38,040 Speaker 3: materials would behave on the lake surface, and they concluded 652 00:39:38,400 --> 00:39:41,560 Speaker 3: that it wouldn't work unless conditions were just right. But 653 00:39:41,680 --> 00:39:43,719 Speaker 3: if they were right, it would work. You could have 654 00:39:43,880 --> 00:39:48,200 Speaker 3: these floating icebergs of hydrocarbons. So to read from the 655 00:39:48,560 --> 00:39:53,319 Speaker 3: press release summary, quote used modeling suggested individual clumps are 656 00:39:53,480 --> 00:39:57,080 Speaker 3: likely too small to float by themselves, but if enough 657 00:39:57,200 --> 00:40:01,080 Speaker 3: clumps mass together near the shore, large pieces could break 658 00:40:01,239 --> 00:40:05,400 Speaker 3: off and float away, similar to how glaciers calve on 659 00:40:05,640 --> 00:40:10,480 Speaker 3: Earth calving they're referring to, yeah, parts of a glacier 660 00:40:10,520 --> 00:40:14,120 Speaker 3: breaking off and falling into the water. The press release 661 00:40:14,120 --> 00:40:16,920 Speaker 3: continues with a combination of a bigger size and the 662 00:40:17,040 --> 00:40:22,560 Speaker 3: right porosity, these organic glaciers could explain the magic island phenomenon. 663 00:40:22,960 --> 00:40:25,400 Speaker 3: So the issue is not settled. This is yet another 664 00:40:25,640 --> 00:40:29,319 Speaker 3: proposal for what it could be to explain these these 665 00:40:29,400 --> 00:40:31,960 Speaker 3: magic islands in the radar images. But I kind of 666 00:40:32,000 --> 00:40:35,080 Speaker 3: hope this explanation has proven right because I love the 667 00:40:35,200 --> 00:40:39,360 Speaker 3: idea of icebergs on titan Maybe maybe that would like 668 00:40:39,560 --> 00:40:41,960 Speaker 3: warn us away from the humorus of trying to launch 669 00:40:42,000 --> 00:40:45,840 Speaker 3: a Titanic on the Lakes of Titan. I don't know, 670 00:40:45,960 --> 00:40:48,120 Speaker 3: But then again, I guess if they're very porous and 671 00:40:48,200 --> 00:40:51,200 Speaker 3: honeycomb like, maybe they wouldn't represent much of a threat 672 00:40:51,239 --> 00:40:52,160 Speaker 3: to bodes. I'm not sure. 673 00:40:53,960 --> 00:40:56,960 Speaker 2: Well, this is this is fascinating. Yeah, I had not 674 00:40:57,080 --> 00:41:00,560 Speaker 2: thought about you know, obviously the topic of ice and 675 00:41:01,440 --> 00:41:06,120 Speaker 2: oceans and water on other worlds and moons within our 676 00:41:06,360 --> 00:41:08,760 Speaker 2: Solar system has coming before, but I had not looked 677 00:41:08,760 --> 00:41:14,719 Speaker 2: at this idea of giant honeycomb glaciers. Potentially this is 678 00:41:15,000 --> 00:41:19,480 Speaker 2: This is fascinating. But to be clear, not an alien spaceship. 679 00:41:19,960 --> 00:41:21,719 Speaker 3: No reason to think so. I think we would. We 680 00:41:21,760 --> 00:41:26,120 Speaker 3: would exhaust the I don't know, planetary science explanations before 681 00:41:26,200 --> 00:41:28,279 Speaker 3: turning to alien technology. 682 00:41:28,920 --> 00:41:31,680 Speaker 2: It's probably telling that the press latched onto the term 683 00:41:31,760 --> 00:41:36,480 Speaker 2: Magic Islands and yet like it kind of maybe even 684 00:41:36,680 --> 00:41:38,400 Speaker 2: too much of a stretch to say, is this is 685 00:41:38,560 --> 00:41:39,719 Speaker 2: this an alien space ship? 686 00:41:39,760 --> 00:41:39,880 Speaker 1: Now? 687 00:41:40,480 --> 00:41:42,320 Speaker 2: At best Magic Island. 688 00:41:42,840 --> 00:41:45,480 Speaker 3: Well, I have no inclination to think it's a spaceship, 689 00:41:45,520 --> 00:41:47,719 Speaker 3: but I still do find that just the idea of 690 00:41:48,400 --> 00:41:51,440 Speaker 3: surface features appearing and disappearing on the Lakes of Titan 691 00:41:51,640 --> 00:41:53,799 Speaker 3: very very spooky and fascinating. 692 00:41:54,239 --> 00:41:57,040 Speaker 2: Absolutely all right, Well, we're gonna go ahead and close 693 00:41:57,080 --> 00:42:00,200 Speaker 2: out this episode. Obviously, there's there's so much more we're 694 00:42:00,200 --> 00:42:04,759 Speaker 2: regarding ice we could cover. I don't. We haven't decided yet. 695 00:42:04,760 --> 00:42:06,800 Speaker 2: If we're doing a third ice episode, we may go 696 00:42:06,880 --> 00:42:09,239 Speaker 2: on to some other topic, but potentially we could come 697 00:42:09,320 --> 00:42:11,120 Speaker 2: back to ice in the future if that's the case, 698 00:42:11,200 --> 00:42:14,680 Speaker 2: because just in Lopez's book, I mean, he has whole 699 00:42:14,719 --> 00:42:17,439 Speaker 2: stretches where he's talking about like different types of ice 700 00:42:17,600 --> 00:42:22,520 Speaker 2: and the behavior of ice, and of course indigenous beliefs 701 00:42:22,560 --> 00:42:26,399 Speaker 2: and traditions concerning ice. There's a lot we could cover. 702 00:42:26,719 --> 00:42:28,880 Speaker 2: And likewise, we know a lot of you out there. 703 00:42:29,000 --> 00:42:32,520 Speaker 2: You have direct experience with ice in ways that we don't. 704 00:42:32,600 --> 00:42:35,200 Speaker 2: You may have takes on some of the things we've 705 00:42:35,239 --> 00:42:38,960 Speaker 2: discussed here, observations, traditions, et cetera, and we would love 706 00:42:39,000 --> 00:42:41,360 Speaker 2: to hear from you. Just a reminder that Stuff to 707 00:42:41,360 --> 00:42:44,399 Speaker 2: Blow Your Mind is primarily a science podcast, with core 708 00:42:44,440 --> 00:42:47,200 Speaker 2: episodes publishing on Tuesdays and Thursdays, and the Stuff to 709 00:42:47,239 --> 00:42:50,239 Speaker 2: Blow Your Mind podcast feed listener mail on Monday's a 710 00:42:50,360 --> 00:42:53,719 Speaker 2: short form episode on Wednesdays, and on Fridays. 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