1 00:00:00,200 --> 00:00:03,400 Speaker 1: Steve Schmidt. So happy to see you. I haven't talked 2 00:00:03,400 --> 00:00:08,680 Speaker 1: to you since election night as we were kind of 3 00:00:09,080 --> 00:00:13,760 Speaker 1: processing the fact that Donald Trump was going to win 4 00:00:13,840 --> 00:00:17,759 Speaker 1: the election. That was about three weeks ago, Steve, and 5 00:00:17,800 --> 00:00:23,280 Speaker 1: I'm just curious how you've been able to kind of 6 00:00:23,440 --> 00:00:26,760 Speaker 1: understand what happened in this election and why. 7 00:00:29,160 --> 00:00:35,159 Speaker 2: Huh. Well, so, I think in the end that Donald 8 00:00:35,200 --> 00:00:41,800 Speaker 2: Trump is many, many, many things, but among them is 9 00:00:41,840 --> 00:00:47,760 Speaker 2: not a hypocrite. And that is the high card of 10 00:00:47,800 --> 00:00:56,000 Speaker 2: American life, the unpardonable sin that you're full of shit. 11 00:00:57,600 --> 00:01:01,520 Speaker 2: And at the end of the day, more clear now 12 00:01:01,960 --> 00:01:08,880 Speaker 2: than when we smoke, spoke, exampled by, exampled by Joe 13 00:01:08,920 --> 00:01:16,640 Speaker 2: Scarborough and Mika Brazinski is the performative nature of all 14 00:01:16,720 --> 00:01:20,200 Speaker 2: of this. Soon will be on the four year anniversary 15 00:01:20,240 --> 00:01:25,080 Speaker 2: of January sixth. I watched it when CNN reported it 16 00:01:25,280 --> 00:01:28,680 Speaker 2: as a riot. I tweeted out in that moment, that's 17 00:01:28,720 --> 00:01:33,200 Speaker 2: not a riot. It's an insurrection. And it's exactly what 18 00:01:33,360 --> 00:01:39,480 Speaker 2: it was. And the American people in the end were 19 00:01:39,560 --> 00:01:44,760 Speaker 2: unbothered by it. And so we had a breach of 20 00:01:44,800 --> 00:01:51,320 Speaker 2: the peaceful transition of power, and we had a failure 21 00:01:52,960 --> 00:01:58,920 Speaker 2: by the Biden administration, and by Joe Biden both exceptionally 22 00:01:59,720 --> 00:02:07,280 Speaker 2: and singularly to communicate effectively to the country when he 23 00:02:07,360 --> 00:02:16,360 Speaker 2: became president two weeks after that that what happened was astonishing, extraordinary, 24 00:02:17,720 --> 00:02:27,280 Speaker 2: and there was nothing more important than it ever ever right, 25 00:02:27,440 --> 00:02:33,320 Speaker 2: not happening again, and so the entire focus of the 26 00:02:33,400 --> 00:02:39,520 Speaker 2: administration should have been that. Instead, he treated Donald Trump 27 00:02:39,800 --> 00:02:45,640 Speaker 2: as a prop to be used to turn out voters, 28 00:02:46,280 --> 00:02:54,360 Speaker 2: like Voldemort in a Harry Potter movie. And so for years, 29 00:02:55,120 --> 00:03:01,560 Speaker 2: Trump was the justification for Joe Biden's I'm breaking my 30 00:03:01,760 --> 00:03:07,760 Speaker 2: promise and running for four more years. During all of this, 31 00:03:08,080 --> 00:03:13,840 Speaker 2: what rose was oppositional to the media, that you were 32 00:03:13,960 --> 00:03:18,760 Speaker 2: part of the media, that you were part of held 33 00:03:18,840 --> 00:03:22,880 Speaker 2: power to account when you worked at a network, and 34 00:03:22,919 --> 00:03:27,720 Speaker 2: that media was deeply connected to what happened in nineteen 35 00:03:27,840 --> 00:03:34,040 Speaker 2: seventy two, nineteen seventy three, in nineteen seventy four, when 36 00:03:34,080 --> 00:03:36,800 Speaker 2: a president of the United States said he was above 37 00:03:36,880 --> 00:03:40,800 Speaker 2: the law and inspired a generation. By the time we 38 00:03:40,920 --> 00:03:44,760 Speaker 2: get to where we are now, it's very different. When 39 00:03:44,800 --> 00:03:48,680 Speaker 2: Scarborough looks into the camera and he says to his 40 00:03:48,800 --> 00:03:54,600 Speaker 2: audience on what's supposed to be the most important public 41 00:03:54,640 --> 00:03:58,760 Speaker 2: affairs morning show in the country on a network that 42 00:03:58,880 --> 00:04:07,680 Speaker 2: Tom Broke all worked to his audience, fuck you if 43 00:04:07,720 --> 00:04:12,440 Speaker 2: you don't believe what I'm telling you, which is the truth. 44 00:04:14,240 --> 00:04:19,120 Speaker 2: This is the best Biden we've ever had, analytically and 45 00:04:19,320 --> 00:04:25,320 Speaker 2: intellectually in every single person, including me, who said that 46 00:04:25,320 --> 00:04:32,039 Speaker 2: that was bullshit was shouted down and smeared by somebody 47 00:04:32,839 --> 00:04:37,560 Speaker 2: in a position of power, or by somebody making money 48 00:04:38,279 --> 00:04:44,280 Speaker 2: from somebody in a position of power close to the power, 49 00:04:45,320 --> 00:04:50,800 Speaker 2: in a political establishment that has been repudiated, has been 50 00:04:50,920 --> 00:04:56,600 Speaker 2: rejected and cast out in favor of Donald Trump, and 51 00:04:56,680 --> 00:05:00,799 Speaker 2: their takeaway from it, by and large three weeks later 52 00:05:02,160 --> 00:05:10,760 Speaker 2: is the American people are stupid, racist and we did 53 00:05:10,800 --> 00:05:15,840 Speaker 2: nothing wrong. So at this moment, fifty one days before 54 00:05:15,920 --> 00:05:21,600 Speaker 2: the inauguration, the American people are going to have an 55 00:05:21,680 --> 00:05:25,960 Speaker 2: experiential odyssey for which I think they have a real 56 00:05:26,080 --> 00:05:31,279 Speaker 2: lack of imagination, despite being warned about it, despite having 57 00:05:31,360 --> 00:05:34,520 Speaker 2: nine years to process it. And so we're going to 58 00:05:34,560 --> 00:05:37,800 Speaker 2: get to see the answer to the question spill out 59 00:05:37,800 --> 00:05:41,160 Speaker 2: in real time about what happens next when a Pete 60 00:05:41,200 --> 00:05:44,960 Speaker 2: Hegseeth is the Secretary of Defense, when a man who 61 00:05:45,000 --> 00:05:48,719 Speaker 2: wants to bring back polio in smallpox, like Robert F. 62 00:05:48,800 --> 00:05:51,920 Speaker 2: Kennedy becomes the head of the public health services. So 63 00:05:51,960 --> 00:05:55,200 Speaker 2: it's going to end up tragically and badly. There'll be 64 00:05:55,279 --> 00:05:57,600 Speaker 2: a lot of harm. But in a democracy, you get 65 00:05:57,640 --> 00:06:00,720 Speaker 2: the government you deserve. I'm sorry for the answer, but 66 00:06:00,760 --> 00:06:01,640 Speaker 2: that's what happened. 67 00:06:02,080 --> 00:06:04,640 Speaker 1: Well, let me pull apart some of the things you 68 00:06:04,760 --> 00:06:07,240 Speaker 1: just claimed because it was a long answer, Steve, And 69 00:06:07,920 --> 00:06:11,359 Speaker 1: is it really fair to put the onus on Joe 70 00:06:11,400 --> 00:06:14,600 Speaker 1: Biden for Donald Trump's victory? Is what I'm hearing you 71 00:06:14,680 --> 00:06:18,800 Speaker 1: say that he should have been focused on the insurrection 72 00:06:19,279 --> 00:06:22,479 Speaker 1: and saying it was unacceptable. But he did have to 73 00:06:22,520 --> 00:06:25,760 Speaker 1: go about the business of running the country and being 74 00:06:25,839 --> 00:06:28,919 Speaker 1: president of the United States. You're faulting him for not 75 00:06:29,040 --> 00:06:32,480 Speaker 1: emphasizing that enough and for running a second time. 76 00:06:32,839 --> 00:06:37,960 Speaker 2: I'm faulting him for his titanic egotism that led to 77 00:06:38,040 --> 00:06:42,400 Speaker 2: his breaking of his implicit promise, which is I will 78 00:06:42,400 --> 00:06:45,000 Speaker 2: be a one term president and put the country first. 79 00:06:45,080 --> 00:06:47,760 Speaker 2: It's not what he did. The truth of the matter 80 00:06:47,920 --> 00:06:51,159 Speaker 2: is is the quiet part just wasn't said out loud 81 00:06:51,200 --> 00:06:55,599 Speaker 2: by anyone except for Dean Phillips, who's now patted again 82 00:06:55,680 --> 00:06:58,440 Speaker 2: on the back by all of his colleagues who knew 83 00:06:58,480 --> 00:07:01,440 Speaker 2: what he was saying was true, then attacked him when 84 00:07:01,440 --> 00:07:05,360 Speaker 2: he said it out loud outside the Green realm. And 85 00:07:05,400 --> 00:07:08,799 Speaker 2: now that it's been proven true, it can be talked 86 00:07:08,800 --> 00:07:11,680 Speaker 2: again about in private. 87 00:07:11,640 --> 00:07:14,880 Speaker 1: When you say something has been proven true, Steve, you're 88 00:07:14,920 --> 00:07:19,000 Speaker 1: talking about Joe Biden's inability to run the government. Is 89 00:07:19,000 --> 00:07:21,320 Speaker 1: that what you're referring to. 90 00:07:20,680 --> 00:07:25,640 Speaker 2: To communicate, to talk, to inspire, to lead, to make 91 00:07:25,680 --> 00:07:30,040 Speaker 2: it up the full set of stairs on Air Force 92 00:07:30,120 --> 00:07:36,040 Speaker 2: one in an urgent moment. And so there was a 93 00:07:36,120 --> 00:07:38,960 Speaker 2: moment in history in the country where the president was 94 00:07:39,000 --> 00:07:40,720 Speaker 2: incapacitated by a stroke. 95 00:07:40,880 --> 00:07:45,880 Speaker 1: President Wilson right, and Edith was running the government. He 96 00:07:45,960 --> 00:07:48,680 Speaker 1: was stopped up on the propped. 97 00:07:48,400 --> 00:07:52,080 Speaker 2: Up, propped up running the country. And Edith Wilson believed 98 00:07:52,080 --> 00:07:57,080 Speaker 2: she did the right thing. She sincerely and honestly believed. 99 00:07:57,080 --> 00:08:00,960 Speaker 2: It really wasn't a book. Well, what do you do 100 00:08:01,080 --> 00:08:05,360 Speaker 2: in that circumstance. You know, she did in her estimation 101 00:08:05,480 --> 00:08:08,640 Speaker 2: what Woodrow Wilson would have wanted. That's what she did. 102 00:08:09,400 --> 00:08:15,600 Speaker 2: But the point is the main point is that everybody 103 00:08:15,640 --> 00:08:19,240 Speaker 2: and the most that can never happen again, and so 104 00:08:19,520 --> 00:08:22,040 Speaker 2: over and over and over again, the American people were 105 00:08:22,080 --> 00:08:26,560 Speaker 2: told things Joe Biden's FDR, the economy's the best it's 106 00:08:26,600 --> 00:08:30,680 Speaker 2: ever been, Bidenomics. You know what, the American people, working 107 00:08:30,720 --> 00:08:33,520 Speaker 2: people in the country, forty percent of which don't have 108 00:08:33,600 --> 00:08:38,000 Speaker 2: four hundred dollars available, don't like being lectured by millionaires 109 00:08:38,040 --> 00:08:41,840 Speaker 2: on television telling them how great it is. They said, fu, 110 00:08:42,559 --> 00:08:45,760 Speaker 2: and they voted for Trump because the economy wasn't great. 111 00:08:46,160 --> 00:08:49,120 Speaker 2: That was a figment of a bunch of elites imaginations 112 00:08:49,160 --> 00:08:51,800 Speaker 2: in New York and Washington. And we now have Trump 113 00:08:51,840 --> 00:08:55,000 Speaker 2: in the White House. That's one reason that That's one thing. 114 00:08:55,040 --> 00:09:01,840 Speaker 2: He did Afghanistan complete in total incompetence on the withdrawal otter, 115 00:09:02,679 --> 00:09:05,880 Speaker 2: and he was beaten about the head on it for 116 00:09:06,000 --> 00:09:11,840 Speaker 2: four straight years. Joe Biden said that the border was secure. 117 00:09:12,640 --> 00:09:17,640 Speaker 2: Was the border secure? It was not secure. Adult life 118 00:09:17,679 --> 00:09:20,359 Speaker 2: and I may have said this on election night requires 119 00:09:20,400 --> 00:09:24,440 Speaker 2: you to hold multiple contradictory thoughts. Trump is the most 120 00:09:24,440 --> 00:09:28,920 Speaker 2: prolific liar in American history. But if the country thinks 121 00:09:28,960 --> 00:09:32,400 Speaker 2: he's the most honest president we've ever had, because there's 122 00:09:32,440 --> 00:09:35,920 Speaker 2: no filtered thought. But when you applied the test about 123 00:09:35,920 --> 00:09:38,720 Speaker 2: who's telling the truth, who's really honest, Who was telling 124 00:09:38,760 --> 00:09:41,640 Speaker 2: the truth about the border, who was telling the truth 125 00:09:41,640 --> 00:09:45,840 Speaker 2: about the economy, who was telling the truth about what 126 00:09:45,920 --> 00:09:53,240 Speaker 2: happened in Afghanistan, Who was telling the truth about Biden's capacity? 127 00:09:53,880 --> 00:09:59,160 Speaker 2: It was Donald Trump, not Joe Biden. And the problem 128 00:09:59,200 --> 00:10:03,840 Speaker 2: with that stratetisy a if your foundation is the opposition 129 00:10:04,040 --> 00:10:07,440 Speaker 2: party to Donald Trump is on a house of is 130 00:10:07,440 --> 00:10:12,120 Speaker 2: built on a on a on a sandbox, on mush 131 00:10:13,400 --> 00:10:16,560 Speaker 2: on the same type of trumpet in dishonesty, you rail against, 132 00:10:17,960 --> 00:10:20,560 Speaker 2: you lose, and that's what happened. 133 00:10:21,120 --> 00:10:23,320 Speaker 1: Let me ask you about the role of the media, 134 00:10:23,400 --> 00:10:29,120 Speaker 1: because you point out Joe Scarborough and Mika Berzinski as 135 00:10:29,200 --> 00:10:36,400 Speaker 1: sort of the consummate media, I guess enablers in some ways. 136 00:10:37,200 --> 00:10:40,560 Speaker 1: Talk about that and the role you believe they played 137 00:10:40,760 --> 00:10:44,800 Speaker 1: in turning many voters against Joe Biden and Kamala Harris 138 00:10:45,360 --> 00:10:48,040 Speaker 1: and into the arms of Donald Trump. 139 00:10:49,840 --> 00:10:55,079 Speaker 2: I don't think that enough people watch the show that 140 00:10:55,320 --> 00:10:58,600 Speaker 2: it determines outcomes. 141 00:10:59,000 --> 00:11:01,320 Speaker 1: But they were attic of something. 142 00:11:01,040 --> 00:11:07,840 Speaker 2: In shape a narrative, right it It creates a choke 143 00:11:08,240 --> 00:11:14,360 Speaker 2: point in the artery of information around what you can 144 00:11:14,520 --> 00:11:19,880 Speaker 2: say and what you can't say in the acceptable speech 145 00:11:20,000 --> 00:11:23,679 Speaker 2: lane in the truth lane at a moment in American 146 00:11:23,880 --> 00:11:27,800 Speaker 2: politics that some of us are trying to say is urgent, 147 00:11:28,840 --> 00:11:35,520 Speaker 2: is exigent, and is a crisis. And when you watch 148 00:11:35,640 --> 00:11:40,480 Speaker 2: Joe Biden perform by twenty twenty two, twenty twenty three, 149 00:11:41,840 --> 00:11:44,880 Speaker 2: and you appreciate what the central line of attack is 150 00:11:45,760 --> 00:11:49,960 Speaker 2: and you look at the reality that it's clear if 151 00:11:49,960 --> 00:11:54,520 Speaker 2: you have competency with regard to being able to assess 152 00:11:55,160 --> 00:11:59,520 Speaker 2: the landscape of a presidential campaign, you can do that 153 00:12:00,040 --> 00:12:04,680 Speaker 2: that Biden's in a lot of trouble. And what Joe 154 00:12:04,840 --> 00:12:12,199 Speaker 2: Biden got from Joe Scarborough, his friend, wasn't favorable coverage, 155 00:12:12,559 --> 00:12:18,040 Speaker 2: sympathetic coverage. Joe Scarborough decided, I'm gonna wear three hats. 156 00:12:19,240 --> 00:12:23,080 Speaker 2: I'm gonna be the guy on the show. I'm gonna 157 00:12:23,080 --> 00:12:28,280 Speaker 2: be the president's friend, and I'm gonna be his political advisor. 158 00:12:28,640 --> 00:12:32,800 Speaker 2: And what's special about the United States is the and 159 00:12:32,880 --> 00:12:36,920 Speaker 2: I really mean this, the genius of the people who 160 00:12:36,960 --> 00:12:43,480 Speaker 2: founded the country. They were imperfect, they weren't just, but man, 161 00:12:44,240 --> 00:12:48,880 Speaker 2: were they fucking brilliant. And they left us something called 162 00:12:48,960 --> 00:12:54,160 Speaker 2: the First Amendment. And what the First Amendment guarantees is 163 00:12:54,200 --> 00:12:57,800 Speaker 2: that the next era of journalism in America will be 164 00:12:57,920 --> 00:13:02,840 Speaker 2: bottom up, and from this bottom of journalism will come 165 00:13:02,880 --> 00:13:07,640 Speaker 2: the accountability, will come the challenge, and will come the 166 00:13:07,720 --> 00:13:13,240 Speaker 2: information the American people need to have so that the 167 00:13:13,280 --> 00:13:16,040 Speaker 2: next time they get a choice, which they'll have again, 168 00:13:17,160 --> 00:13:22,760 Speaker 2: they can say time to turn around and change direction. 169 00:13:23,559 --> 00:13:26,440 Speaker 1: Well, gosh, you've given me so much to chew on, 170 00:13:26,520 --> 00:13:32,160 Speaker 1: But let me say, let's talk about these cabinet picks, Steve, 171 00:13:33,000 --> 00:13:37,600 Speaker 1: because Chris Coons of Delaware, a Democrat, described it as 172 00:13:37,640 --> 00:13:42,199 Speaker 1: a reality show casting call, and there were a slew 173 00:13:42,520 --> 00:13:47,440 Speaker 1: of people named over the weekend. Donald Trump doesn't want 174 00:13:47,559 --> 00:13:52,600 Speaker 1: FBI background checks, He wants recess appointments, so the Senate 175 00:13:52,640 --> 00:13:57,079 Speaker 1: doesn't even have to confirm these people. And there are 176 00:13:57,120 --> 00:14:00,360 Speaker 1: a lot of questions about some of these folks, folks 177 00:14:00,760 --> 00:14:07,080 Speaker 1: RFK Junior, Telsey Gavard, Pete heggsath I thought Maureen Dowd's 178 00:14:07,080 --> 00:14:09,640 Speaker 1: column was good this weekend when she said, is Donald 179 00:14:09,679 --> 00:14:14,080 Speaker 1: Trump protecting women or predators? Because there is a thread 180 00:14:14,280 --> 00:14:18,240 Speaker 1: amongst some of these people in terms of the allegations 181 00:14:18,320 --> 00:14:23,000 Speaker 1: they have faced. So, as you've watched these people be 182 00:14:23,200 --> 00:14:29,200 Speaker 1: named and cabinet positions, other powerful positions in the government, 183 00:14:29,760 --> 00:14:31,480 Speaker 1: what has your reaction been. 184 00:14:32,120 --> 00:14:39,200 Speaker 2: Shocking, It's not surprising as shocking. Pete Hegsath cannot be, 185 00:14:39,640 --> 00:14:42,760 Speaker 2: must not be in the chain of command for the 186 00:14:42,800 --> 00:14:47,040 Speaker 2: release of nuclear weapons with his white nationalist tattoo stamped 187 00:14:47,080 --> 00:14:50,200 Speaker 2: on his chest. The answer is no. Now. If the 188 00:14:50,320 --> 00:14:55,200 Speaker 2: United States Senate is unable to deliver the now with 189 00:14:55,280 --> 00:15:00,680 Speaker 2: an assertion of its co equal power under the Americans system, 190 00:15:01,320 --> 00:15:06,800 Speaker 2: that means we're in a crisis. If Trump appoints all 191 00:15:06,840 --> 00:15:13,920 Speaker 2: of these people, these misfits, the disordered ones, absent FBI investigations, 192 00:15:14,200 --> 00:15:22,600 Speaker 2: which is reckless, but through a recess process with the 193 00:15:22,680 --> 00:15:32,640 Speaker 2: implicit approval of Republican senators objectively, in that moment, I 194 00:15:32,680 --> 00:15:36,720 Speaker 2: could make an argument that the American Republic has fallen. 195 00:15:37,640 --> 00:15:40,920 Speaker 1: The big question is what will these senators do? And 196 00:15:40,960 --> 00:15:44,040 Speaker 1: I think it's we don't know a question mark at 197 00:15:44,080 --> 00:15:48,920 Speaker 1: this juncture. What do you think reading the tea leaves, Steve, 198 00:15:49,960 --> 00:15:52,480 Speaker 1: do you think they are going to give Donald Trump 199 00:15:52,560 --> 00:15:56,680 Speaker 1: a green light? Or are they going to say our 200 00:15:56,800 --> 00:16:01,720 Speaker 1: role is to advise and consent and we need to 201 00:16:01,920 --> 00:16:06,720 Speaker 1: fully vet these individuals before they're put in these positions 202 00:16:06,800 --> 00:16:07,960 Speaker 1: of incredible power. 203 00:16:08,560 --> 00:16:15,560 Speaker 2: Okay, let's so, I completely appreciate the ministerial part of 204 00:16:15,600 --> 00:16:19,480 Speaker 2: this if you're a senator to say, I'm not going 205 00:16:19,560 --> 00:16:25,280 Speaker 2: to prejudge Nay, Pete Hagsath, Tulsea Gabbard, We're gonna wait 206 00:16:25,320 --> 00:16:30,200 Speaker 2: for the confirmation hearings. I'm going to examine them. And 207 00:16:30,600 --> 00:16:35,840 Speaker 2: I get the politics of that. There is nothing, not 208 00:16:35,920 --> 00:16:40,920 Speaker 2: a single thing that any sentient US senator needs to 209 00:16:41,000 --> 00:16:47,440 Speaker 2: know regarding these people's on fitness that isn't available right 210 00:16:47,480 --> 00:16:53,440 Speaker 2: now in this moment. There's bad judgment and a rotten 211 00:16:53,520 --> 00:16:58,720 Speaker 2: character and so he's unfit. You got a guy like 212 00:16:58,760 --> 00:17:01,240 Speaker 2: Pete Hagsath, right at all these people. I was talking 213 00:17:01,240 --> 00:17:03,080 Speaker 2: to someone like who would you stop? If you can 214 00:17:03,160 --> 00:17:07,200 Speaker 2: only stop one, which one would it be? And so 215 00:17:07,200 --> 00:17:09,760 Speaker 2: so I've talked to like fifteen people about this, right, 216 00:17:09,760 --> 00:17:12,200 Speaker 2: I've had great conversations on this and some of these 217 00:17:12,200 --> 00:17:15,399 Speaker 2: people all over the world, right like on the and 218 00:17:15,960 --> 00:17:17,640 Speaker 2: I was talking to one of the one of the 219 00:17:18,440 --> 00:17:20,639 Speaker 2: I think, uh, I don't think you would mind. I 220 00:17:20,640 --> 00:17:23,520 Speaker 2: was talking to John Nichols at the Nation magazine, and 221 00:17:23,600 --> 00:17:27,119 Speaker 2: I think it's one of the smartest, brightest, most thoughtful people. 222 00:17:27,200 --> 00:17:30,399 Speaker 2: And we came to the same conclusion, right, which is 223 00:17:30,440 --> 00:17:33,760 Speaker 2: heg Seth, which is, if you were Captain Benson, you 224 00:17:33,800 --> 00:17:36,040 Speaker 2: would follow the bread comes in the clues to the 225 00:17:36,119 --> 00:17:41,040 Speaker 2: nuclear weapons. That job comes with nuclear weapons command and control. 226 00:17:42,920 --> 00:17:45,520 Speaker 2: You want a lieutenant colonel following Pete hag set the 227 00:17:45,560 --> 00:17:48,720 Speaker 2: round with the launch codes for the nuclear weapons. He 228 00:17:48,800 --> 00:17:53,200 Speaker 2: gets to turn the key with the president, right right, 229 00:17:55,160 --> 00:18:00,520 Speaker 2: you know? Uh no, Uh So you look at all 230 00:18:00,520 --> 00:18:08,200 Speaker 2: these people and I try to imagine, like what could 231 00:18:08,200 --> 00:18:15,240 Speaker 2: go wrong, what could go right? And I look at 232 00:18:15,240 --> 00:18:19,720 Speaker 2: some of them, like a Gabbard, there's nothing that can 233 00:18:19,760 --> 00:18:24,360 Speaker 2: go right. A hag Seth, there's nothing that can go right. 234 00:18:26,960 --> 00:18:31,240 Speaker 2: A Bobby Kennedy, Right, he could be in pharmaceutical advertising. 235 00:18:31,600 --> 00:18:35,280 Speaker 2: Papolio's coming back, So I'm against him too, right, We 236 00:18:35,800 --> 00:18:40,040 Speaker 2: and and and and Christy noan, we haven't even talked 237 00:18:40,040 --> 00:18:41,520 Speaker 2: about her, right. 238 00:18:41,400 --> 00:18:41,560 Speaker 1: Like. 239 00:18:43,080 --> 00:18:47,600 Speaker 2: The whole shooting of the dog, and I'm a dog lover, right, 240 00:18:47,640 --> 00:18:49,680 Speaker 2: I have like dogs are a big part of my life, 241 00:18:49,760 --> 00:18:51,280 Speaker 2: a lot of big part of like a lot of 242 00:18:51,359 --> 00:18:56,000 Speaker 2: lives of Americans. She confessed to shooting the dog because 243 00:18:56,040 --> 00:18:59,280 Speaker 2: the dog embarrassed her at a at a hunting party, 244 00:18:59,359 --> 00:19:01,440 Speaker 2: and she just had the dog loose in the back 245 00:19:01,480 --> 00:19:03,840 Speaker 2: of a pickup truck, so of course it jumped out 246 00:19:03,880 --> 00:19:07,679 Speaker 2: because it wasn't trained to sitting there, and she killed it. 247 00:19:08,040 --> 00:19:10,920 Speaker 2: And we want to make we want to make her 248 00:19:12,600 --> 00:19:19,840 Speaker 2: the head of a gigantic federal police bureaucracy. It should 249 00:19:19,880 --> 00:19:25,960 Speaker 2: be ninety eight to nothing. Send us somebody new. That's 250 00:19:26,040 --> 00:19:30,159 Speaker 2: not going to happen. But with regard to those people 251 00:19:31,200 --> 00:19:33,520 Speaker 2: in the scenario that you're laying out, what you really 252 00:19:33,560 --> 00:19:36,040 Speaker 2: talk about is you should start with a hard no. 253 00:19:37,600 --> 00:19:45,840 Speaker 2: Right of all of the Democrats, plus Murkowski and Collins, 254 00:19:45,920 --> 00:19:50,520 Speaker 2: if they are who everybody seems to think they are, 255 00:19:50,840 --> 00:19:55,200 Speaker 2: which isn't in a position of agreement with the Democrats, 256 00:19:55,240 --> 00:19:58,800 Speaker 2: but serious people that of course they would be. 257 00:19:58,840 --> 00:19:58,879 Speaker 1: No. 258 00:20:00,080 --> 00:20:05,879 Speaker 2: Sullivan in Alaska is a Marine Corps colonel in his 259 00:20:06,040 --> 00:20:09,200 Speaker 2: previous life as a US Senator. Does he think it's 260 00:20:09,280 --> 00:20:13,879 Speaker 2: okay for Pete hag Sethews who's who's who's regardless of 261 00:20:13,920 --> 00:20:15,879 Speaker 2: whether he raped the woman or not, that he's been 262 00:20:15,880 --> 00:20:19,240 Speaker 2: accused of by our of raping her, right that that 263 00:20:19,320 --> 00:20:25,280 Speaker 2: the police reports make clear he's a dipshit of the 264 00:20:25,400 --> 00:20:30,680 Speaker 2: highest variety. Right, he shouldn't. He shouldn't. He shouldn't. He's 265 00:20:30,680 --> 00:20:33,240 Speaker 2: not he's not eligible to be an officer in the 266 00:20:33,320 --> 00:20:37,280 Speaker 2: junior class at West Point. With that type of conduct, 267 00:20:37,320 --> 00:20:43,560 Speaker 2: it's unbecoming. Robert Kennedy, right, is interesting. Right of all 268 00:20:43,640 --> 00:20:46,119 Speaker 2: of these, so for example, and I this is the 269 00:20:46,119 --> 00:20:50,440 Speaker 2: one I I find it. I can argue this all day. 270 00:20:51,320 --> 00:20:54,080 Speaker 2: But what I'm most interested about with regard to him 271 00:20:54,160 --> 00:20:59,240 Speaker 2: is is two things. He's declared war on the sugar 272 00:20:59,400 --> 00:21:04,439 Speaker 2: soda industry. And they're gearing up like in Washington, like 273 00:21:04,720 --> 00:21:08,159 Speaker 2: right now, right if there was still functional journalism like 274 00:21:08,320 --> 00:21:12,560 Speaker 2: every PR agency, right they are, they're going crazy right 275 00:21:12,600 --> 00:21:16,440 Speaker 2: now in anticipation that RFKS and he got in there 276 00:21:16,960 --> 00:21:20,720 Speaker 2: right for the soda war. The other thing, right, I 277 00:21:20,840 --> 00:21:23,840 Speaker 2: find fascia. As RFK said, no more and he can 278 00:21:23,920 --> 00:21:26,280 Speaker 2: do this, he can get rid of it pretty easily. 279 00:21:26,760 --> 00:21:29,200 Speaker 2: No more pharmaceutical advertising. 280 00:21:29,200 --> 00:21:33,359 Speaker 1: Rights and to play devil's advocate. What would be wrong 281 00:21:33,960 --> 00:21:38,960 Speaker 1: with defenestrating the pharmaceutical and destroyous ability. 282 00:21:39,720 --> 00:21:44,800 Speaker 2: I'm completely for it. I'm completely for it. My question 283 00:21:44,840 --> 00:21:46,960 Speaker 2: would be, do you have to bring back polio and 284 00:21:47,080 --> 00:21:47,520 Speaker 2: do it? 285 00:21:47,920 --> 00:21:51,439 Speaker 1: I think the scary thing about RFK Junior is to 286 00:21:52,600 --> 00:21:58,240 Speaker 1: paint all pharmaceutical companies with a broad brush when they 287 00:21:58,320 --> 00:22:04,359 Speaker 1: have developed life save, life changing drugs that are helping 288 00:22:04,400 --> 00:22:07,040 Speaker 1: people yes, I understand. We want to look at the 289 00:22:07,080 --> 00:22:10,680 Speaker 1: core problems that are making people sick, so we don't 290 00:22:10,680 --> 00:22:14,600 Speaker 1: necessarily always have to rely on pharmaceuticals. But they've done 291 00:22:14,680 --> 00:22:18,960 Speaker 1: a lot of great things, like vaccines and curing polio 292 00:22:19,000 --> 00:22:22,919 Speaker 1: and the HPV vaccine, et cetera, et cetera. And I 293 00:22:22,920 --> 00:22:25,919 Speaker 1: think it's sort of frightening to have someone who's the 294 00:22:25,960 --> 00:22:28,880 Speaker 1: head of the Department of Health and Human Services, which 295 00:22:29,000 --> 00:22:36,600 Speaker 1: oversees the FDA, the CDC, the NIH, Medicare and Medicaid services. 296 00:22:36,640 --> 00:22:40,080 Speaker 1: Although I guess doctor Oz is going to be doing that, 297 00:22:40,680 --> 00:22:44,560 Speaker 1: But to have someone who is so anti pharmaceutical doesn't 298 00:22:44,600 --> 00:22:45,760 Speaker 1: sit well with me either. 299 00:22:48,200 --> 00:22:55,359 Speaker 2: When I'm listening to you. My existence, my grandfather was 300 00:22:55,440 --> 00:23:01,200 Speaker 2: a twin, and he and his twin both lost their 301 00:23:01,320 --> 00:23:08,840 Speaker 2: first wives and children in childbirth. My father was his 302 00:23:09,040 --> 00:23:14,080 Speaker 2: son by a second marriage. My grandfather's brother, I was 303 00:23:14,160 --> 00:23:17,840 Speaker 2: a D Day paratrooper when I met him, was in 304 00:23:17,880 --> 00:23:21,040 Speaker 2: a wheelchair, not from war rooms, but from polio, which 305 00:23:21,040 --> 00:23:26,680 Speaker 2: he got in the nineteen fifties. Right, suffering, suffering, Right, 306 00:23:26,680 --> 00:23:30,439 Speaker 2: that default position of humanity since the beginning of time, 307 00:23:30,880 --> 00:23:36,240 Speaker 2: alleviated by profound leaps forward in science. Now, for my 308 00:23:36,560 --> 00:23:43,200 Speaker 2: entire political career. Right, let's call it. Between age twenty 309 00:23:43,240 --> 00:23:48,000 Speaker 2: five and forty, Big Pharma was the target of the 310 00:23:48,000 --> 00:23:51,800 Speaker 2: Democratic Party, right politically big form of this big Pharma 311 00:23:51,920 --> 00:23:56,639 Speaker 2: screwing you, YadA, YadA, YadA. Now, these companies are powerful, 312 00:23:57,480 --> 00:24:01,840 Speaker 2: billion dollar organizations. I have skeptics of anything big and powerful, 313 00:24:02,160 --> 00:24:05,560 Speaker 2: as I know you do. So should your audience. And 314 00:24:05,640 --> 00:24:09,160 Speaker 2: one of the worst ideas of the last thirty years 315 00:24:09,760 --> 00:24:13,320 Speaker 2: was to put pharmaceutical advertising on television. It wasn't allowed 316 00:24:13,359 --> 00:24:17,080 Speaker 2: before that. It shouldn't be allowed. And I do think 317 00:24:17,119 --> 00:24:19,880 Speaker 2: that some of the fights that RFK has picked, some 318 00:24:19,920 --> 00:24:24,880 Speaker 2: of his enemies have real teeth, and to have somebody 319 00:24:24,960 --> 00:24:28,440 Speaker 2: who's literally nuts enough to make a full charge at 320 00:24:28,440 --> 00:24:32,120 Speaker 2: them in Washington, DC is something I haven't seen over 321 00:24:32,160 --> 00:24:34,080 Speaker 2: the course of my career. And I'm just as a 322 00:24:34,119 --> 00:24:38,040 Speaker 2: practitioner of campaign politics who spend a lot of time 323 00:24:38,080 --> 00:24:40,479 Speaker 2: in this space, in this world and has watched how 324 00:24:40,520 --> 00:24:43,720 Speaker 2: it's all covered in the media as a political science experiment. 325 00:24:44,119 --> 00:24:46,320 Speaker 2: I just I can't. I could, I could set up 326 00:24:46,320 --> 00:24:48,600 Speaker 2: a podcast and cover it. I mean, I just it's 327 00:24:48,720 --> 00:24:50,320 Speaker 2: endlessly fascinating to me. 328 00:24:51,000 --> 00:24:55,240 Speaker 1: So do you think some of his desires to tackle 329 00:24:55,320 --> 00:25:00,640 Speaker 1: these intractable problems, like the power or the the size 330 00:25:00,680 --> 00:25:05,720 Speaker 1: of these big pharmaceutical bohemoths is in some ways a 331 00:25:05,760 --> 00:25:06,200 Speaker 1: good thing. 332 00:25:10,280 --> 00:25:14,159 Speaker 2: I live in a ski town and in a city, 333 00:25:14,960 --> 00:25:20,199 Speaker 2: and most people where I live, generally speaking, are in 334 00:25:20,280 --> 00:25:26,679 Speaker 2: pretty good shape. If you go to Disney World or 335 00:25:26,760 --> 00:25:30,399 Speaker 2: to Disneyland, you're going to find a real cross section 336 00:25:30,920 --> 00:25:41,920 Speaker 2: of America. It's frightening. It's unhealthy. If you brought somebody 337 00:25:42,000 --> 00:25:45,199 Speaker 2: back who is a medical doctor, who let's say passed 338 00:25:45,200 --> 00:25:49,320 Speaker 2: away in nineteen sixty five, and you showed them what 339 00:25:49,400 --> 00:25:53,680 Speaker 2: the American citizen looks like in his or her aggregate 340 00:25:54,600 --> 00:26:01,960 Speaker 2: in twenty twenty four, what would their reaction be if 341 00:26:01,960 --> 00:26:07,240 Speaker 2: we had to fight, right, we had a draft World 342 00:26:07,320 --> 00:26:11,880 Speaker 2: War Two. It's the physical training, level of physical fitness 343 00:26:13,000 --> 00:26:19,280 Speaker 2: in the country. It's deplorable. The country is sick. And 344 00:26:19,359 --> 00:26:26,240 Speaker 2: I think that that is a fair observation. A lot 345 00:26:26,240 --> 00:26:28,960 Speaker 2: of it has to do with the culture, with the 346 00:26:29,000 --> 00:26:32,560 Speaker 2: food people are. By the way, this isn't this isn't 347 00:26:32,600 --> 00:26:37,080 Speaker 2: a European problem. This is an American problem, right. This 348 00:26:37,160 --> 00:26:41,240 Speaker 2: is an American political problem. Right. This is a lot 349 00:26:41,280 --> 00:26:43,600 Speaker 2: of corruption, a lot of power, a lot of in 350 00:26:43,600 --> 00:26:49,040 Speaker 2: these in these industries and so kind of crazy person 351 00:26:49,160 --> 00:26:54,680 Speaker 2: observes something correctly. Does that mean that that person's observation 352 00:26:55,480 --> 00:27:00,240 Speaker 2: qualifies them to fix the thing that they've observed correctly? 353 00:27:00,320 --> 00:27:07,879 Speaker 2: Of course not, you know, he he is. There are 354 00:27:07,960 --> 00:27:11,920 Speaker 2: There are kind of a couple qualification bars in these jobs, 355 00:27:12,040 --> 00:27:20,000 Speaker 2: right that, and they matter most on a sliding scale. Character, honesty, judgment. 356 00:27:20,720 --> 00:27:25,359 Speaker 2: Tell me about the bear again in Central Park, about 357 00:27:25,400 --> 00:27:31,480 Speaker 2: the whale, about the revelations in the diary. Now, now 358 00:27:31,560 --> 00:27:37,080 Speaker 2: let's look at your your ability to process reality information. 359 00:27:38,240 --> 00:27:43,400 Speaker 2: I'm gonna tell you something, Okay, what I'd like from 360 00:27:43,440 --> 00:27:47,400 Speaker 2: you is a response about what we should do. There's 361 00:27:47,440 --> 00:27:50,199 Speaker 2: a there's no evidence to suggest that Robert Kennedy has 362 00:27:50,200 --> 00:27:54,800 Speaker 2: any capacity to know what to do in any given situation. 363 00:27:55,800 --> 00:27:57,119 Speaker 2: Can't process information? 364 00:27:57,680 --> 00:28:00,520 Speaker 1: Well, I think, I think to your point, Robert Kennedy 365 00:28:00,600 --> 00:28:03,880 Speaker 1: Junior is a mixed bag. I think he says some 366 00:28:04,040 --> 00:28:07,640 Speaker 1: things that are true about chronic disease in this country, 367 00:28:08,280 --> 00:28:12,760 Speaker 1: about pesticides, about some of the things that go on 368 00:28:12,800 --> 00:28:18,639 Speaker 1: in this country that are keeping people unhealthy. On the 369 00:28:18,680 --> 00:28:21,960 Speaker 1: other hand, you know, there are things that he says 370 00:28:22,040 --> 00:28:26,280 Speaker 1: that are really scary about vaccines. He went to Samoa 371 00:28:26,720 --> 00:28:28,439 Speaker 1: and I don't know if you've read that story. 372 00:28:28,640 --> 00:28:30,199 Speaker 2: Killed a lot of people killed them, a. 373 00:28:30,200 --> 00:28:33,000 Speaker 1: Lot of kids died. There are other positions he has 374 00:28:33,080 --> 00:28:35,640 Speaker 1: taken that are really scary too. 375 00:28:35,920 --> 00:28:40,760 Speaker 2: So do you think let me like I just like one. No, 376 00:28:41,280 --> 00:28:45,560 Speaker 2: he will get people will die. People will die, right 377 00:28:45,600 --> 00:28:48,760 Speaker 2: if someone like him runs the public health services right, 378 00:28:48,800 --> 00:28:51,200 Speaker 2: And it's like one of the things I find most 379 00:28:51,320 --> 00:28:54,320 Speaker 2: curious about this era. I say, this is like a 380 00:28:54,360 --> 00:28:59,360 Speaker 2: Gen X or fifty four. There's a lot more sensitivity today. 381 00:29:00,280 --> 00:29:06,840 Speaker 2: Some of it's good then there used to be, but 382 00:29:09,000 --> 00:29:14,080 Speaker 2: there's a real current in the culture that if you 383 00:29:14,760 --> 00:29:19,200 Speaker 2: talk to somebody about consequences, there's just like a real 384 00:29:19,360 --> 00:29:24,960 Speaker 2: resistance right to the concept. I was in a restaurant. 385 00:29:25,040 --> 00:29:28,720 Speaker 2: I was in a restaurant and in a waiter a 386 00:29:28,720 --> 00:29:32,160 Speaker 2: couple of weeks ago spilled four drinks on me and 387 00:29:32,200 --> 00:29:34,240 Speaker 2: I didn't, but he was. He was a young guy. 388 00:29:34,480 --> 00:29:38,120 Speaker 2: It's like twenty three. And the first thing he says 389 00:29:38,120 --> 00:29:42,440 Speaker 2: to me, he goes, it was the tray. I grew 390 00:29:42,520 --> 00:29:46,520 Speaker 2: up in a place and in a time it wasn't 391 00:29:46,560 --> 00:29:53,160 Speaker 2: the tray. It was you, right, I wasn't mad. Shit happens. 392 00:29:53,800 --> 00:29:57,760 Speaker 2: But the point is, in a world where nothing is 393 00:29:57,800 --> 00:30:01,440 Speaker 2: ever anyone's fault. It's not possible. I couldn't have spilled 394 00:30:01,440 --> 00:30:04,480 Speaker 2: that drink on you. The trick did it right? You know, 395 00:30:05,240 --> 00:30:09,920 Speaker 2: it was the track in this world right in which 396 00:30:10,000 --> 00:30:11,920 Speaker 2: our politics takes place. 397 00:30:12,960 --> 00:30:13,160 Speaker 1: Right. 398 00:30:13,320 --> 00:30:18,200 Speaker 2: All of this is downrange from culture incredibly. I mean, 399 00:30:18,440 --> 00:30:21,680 Speaker 2: you're in the nine to eleven Museum, Katie, that's you 400 00:30:21,800 --> 00:30:25,800 Speaker 2: on the television. I remember watching it. That was the 401 00:30:25,840 --> 00:30:31,960 Speaker 2: most horrible day or of my adult life, watching horror, 402 00:30:32,200 --> 00:30:36,880 Speaker 2: American horror on the screen. And it seems to me, 403 00:30:38,640 --> 00:30:47,320 Speaker 2: quarter century later, just total amnesia, right, real numbness about 404 00:30:47,360 --> 00:30:50,080 Speaker 2: bad things that could happen. So, you know, we used 405 00:30:50,080 --> 00:30:52,880 Speaker 2: to there used to be movies right about what would 406 00:30:52,880 --> 00:30:55,680 Speaker 2: happen if there were two astronauts, like stranded in space. 407 00:30:57,760 --> 00:30:59,800 Speaker 2: That's happening right now. No chi as a fuck right 408 00:31:00,000 --> 00:31:04,440 Speaker 2: at all? Right, right, except for like at NASA, And 409 00:31:04,200 --> 00:31:07,760 Speaker 2: so what I'm saying is with all of these people 410 00:31:09,000 --> 00:31:14,479 Speaker 2: is terrible, terrible things will happen. I know it will happen. 411 00:31:14,840 --> 00:31:19,040 Speaker 2: It's not a debate. If you take a guy who 412 00:31:19,120 --> 00:31:23,200 Speaker 2: doesn't believe in science and vaccines and medicine with a 413 00:31:23,280 --> 00:31:26,320 Speaker 2: track record of doing what he did in Samoa, of course, 414 00:31:26,320 --> 00:31:31,719 Speaker 2: people are gonna die. Right if you politicize the American military, 415 00:31:32,680 --> 00:31:36,840 Speaker 2: Trump is Trump is at our one. Right, all transgender 416 00:31:36,880 --> 00:31:39,600 Speaker 2: personnel or out of the military. They'll be disqualified for 417 00:31:39,720 --> 00:31:42,760 Speaker 2: military service. They're going to be medically discharged, all of them. 418 00:31:42,920 --> 00:31:49,680 Speaker 2: Fifteen thousand. He's going to fire the Joint Staff, right, 419 00:31:49,760 --> 00:31:54,600 Speaker 2: the chiefs, the Chief of Naval Operations, Linda Franchetti, Admiral Franchetti, 420 00:31:54,640 --> 00:31:56,920 Speaker 2: first woman to be chief of Naval Operations, She's going 421 00:31:57,000 --> 00:31:59,480 Speaker 2: to be out. Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, 422 00:31:59,520 --> 00:32:03,800 Speaker 2: who was a confidant and friend of General Millie, He's 423 00:32:03,840 --> 00:32:07,520 Speaker 2: going to be out. Mark Wayne Mullin just put a 424 00:32:07,560 --> 00:32:11,800 Speaker 2: hold on promotion of the three star officer who's being 425 00:32:11,880 --> 00:32:14,680 Speaker 2: promoted to four star rank to take over US forces 426 00:32:14,680 --> 00:32:18,080 Speaker 2: in Europe. He's going to be out of the military. 427 00:32:17,840 --> 00:32:21,520 Speaker 2: So you're going to see a calling of the senior 428 00:32:21,600 --> 00:32:28,000 Speaker 2: leadership of the military unlike anything that the country seen 429 00:32:28,160 --> 00:32:32,280 Speaker 2: since nineteen thirty seven, thirty eight, thirty nine, when Marshall 430 00:32:32,360 --> 00:32:35,520 Speaker 2: got the military ready to fight the Second World War, 431 00:32:35,560 --> 00:32:39,400 Speaker 2: and guys like Eisenhower went from lieutenant colonel to brevet 432 00:32:39,440 --> 00:32:40,800 Speaker 2: major generals overnight. 433 00:32:41,120 --> 00:32:46,520 Speaker 1: I also understand that there may be a mission to 434 00:32:47,120 --> 00:32:51,240 Speaker 1: court marshall some of the high ranking military official Steve 435 00:32:51,320 --> 00:32:55,280 Speaker 1: who spoke ill of Donald Trump during the campaign. Of course, 436 00:32:55,320 --> 00:32:59,680 Speaker 1: I'm talking about John Kelly and Mark Milly. General Mattis 437 00:33:00,400 --> 00:33:03,719 Speaker 1: did not. He did write a resignation letter, and I 438 00:33:03,760 --> 00:33:07,120 Speaker 1: think sort of you could read between the lines what 439 00:33:07,200 --> 00:33:11,280 Speaker 1: he was saying. But could he actually court martial some 440 00:33:11,360 --> 00:33:13,680 Speaker 1: of these individuals who spoke out against him. 441 00:33:14,160 --> 00:33:17,400 Speaker 2: He could recall them to active service and convene a 442 00:33:17,480 --> 00:33:22,040 Speaker 2: court martial under a unifor uniform Code of Military Justice, 443 00:33:22,120 --> 00:33:26,000 Speaker 2: which is the military's legal system. That is a prosecution, 444 00:33:26,240 --> 00:33:30,240 Speaker 2: that is a kangaroo court prosecution all sorts of problems, 445 00:33:30,280 --> 00:33:35,440 Speaker 2: including the command influence or undue influence of the commander 446 00:33:35,520 --> 00:33:39,920 Speaker 2: in chief in the court martial. And of course that 447 00:33:40,120 --> 00:33:45,680 Speaker 2: court martial would be would be tried by a jury 448 00:33:46,040 --> 00:33:51,320 Speaker 2: of Millie's peers, who of course would not convict him, 449 00:33:51,840 --> 00:33:55,360 Speaker 2: and it would be and it would be found not guilty. Right, 450 00:33:55,400 --> 00:34:02,560 Speaker 2: So that's an example. Could Trump do it? Yeah? Is 451 00:34:02,600 --> 00:34:06,680 Speaker 2: there a release valve? There is? We don't live in 452 00:34:06,720 --> 00:34:10,279 Speaker 2: the Third Reich. We live in America. So MILLI we'd 453 00:34:10,360 --> 00:34:15,080 Speaker 2: go have his court martial. Uh? I think Jackie Robinson 454 00:34:15,200 --> 00:34:19,400 Speaker 2: was court martialed, right, it will be as unjust as that. 455 00:34:20,960 --> 00:34:23,480 Speaker 2: A lot of people have faced on just court martial 456 00:34:24,040 --> 00:34:27,719 Speaker 2: in the history of the military for racial reasons, a 457 00:34:27,719 --> 00:34:31,880 Speaker 2: lot of them. The military justice system, though, like the 458 00:34:32,000 --> 00:34:36,200 Speaker 2: American justice system, which it's much a part of, is resilient, 459 00:34:37,520 --> 00:34:40,520 Speaker 2: and so you don't go to get Milly up against 460 00:34:40,560 --> 00:34:45,000 Speaker 2: the wall. Millie's going to be acquitted, and with that 461 00:34:45,160 --> 00:34:51,640 Speaker 2: acquittal will be a rebuke morally of the outrageousness of 462 00:34:51,719 --> 00:34:52,520 Speaker 2: the action. 463 00:34:53,000 --> 00:34:57,080 Speaker 1: In that case. You're describing, Steve guardrails that exist, but 464 00:34:57,800 --> 00:35:02,480 Speaker 1: there are few and far between guardrails currently in place 465 00:35:03,239 --> 00:35:08,200 Speaker 1: with a Trump presidency and a Senate controlled by Republicans, 466 00:35:08,200 --> 00:35:12,560 Speaker 1: a House controlled by Republicans, and of course a Justice 467 00:35:12,600 --> 00:35:17,480 Speaker 1: Department controlled by Republicans. So what are your biggest fears 468 00:35:17,800 --> 00:35:22,360 Speaker 1: as you look toward this these next four years. 469 00:35:23,200 --> 00:35:26,919 Speaker 2: I guess I have a slight dissent, and I think 470 00:35:26,920 --> 00:35:32,799 Speaker 2: it's a really important indistinction, which is this, the guardrails 471 00:35:32,800 --> 00:35:36,560 Speaker 2: are exactly the same as they've ever been. They're exactly 472 00:35:36,600 --> 00:35:42,200 Speaker 2: the same. Nothing has changed. Constitutions, the constitution, the votes 473 00:35:42,239 --> 00:35:45,839 Speaker 2: are the votes right, All the facts of what's right 474 00:35:45,960 --> 00:35:49,799 Speaker 2: what's wrong, what's decent, what's not, what's crazy, what's not. 475 00:35:49,800 --> 00:35:59,439 Speaker 2: Nothing has changed. What's changed is the incentives and maybe 476 00:36:00,080 --> 00:36:05,480 Speaker 2: the tolerance that a Bill Haggerty from Tennessee would go 477 00:36:05,520 --> 00:36:08,320 Speaker 2: out and say, we don't for the most sensitive jobs 478 00:36:08,360 --> 00:36:11,680 Speaker 2: of the US government. I don't care whatsoever who these 479 00:36:11,719 --> 00:36:14,040 Speaker 2: people are, what they'll do, who they're on the payroll, 480 00:36:14,120 --> 00:36:16,799 Speaker 2: if they're compromised, if they're not, don't give a shit 481 00:36:17,000 --> 00:36:23,120 Speaker 2: at all. I trust Trump, and so if there are 482 00:36:23,360 --> 00:36:27,319 Speaker 2: enough of those people, then Trump will get to do 483 00:36:28,239 --> 00:36:35,400 Speaker 2: whatever he wants. Now, the recess appointment is a is 484 00:36:35,440 --> 00:36:41,600 Speaker 2: a bigger deal, right, because that's a that's a systemic assault. 485 00:36:42,800 --> 00:36:46,160 Speaker 2: If you take all of these unqualified people with the 486 00:36:46,280 --> 00:36:51,720 Speaker 2: acquiescence of the Senate, who seeks to evade their complete 487 00:36:51,840 --> 00:36:57,720 Speaker 2: lack of fitness by evading their constitutional role by giving 488 00:36:57,800 --> 00:37:01,960 Speaker 2: away their coequal staff in the American government with an 489 00:37:01,960 --> 00:37:07,840 Speaker 2: acting capitulation, well I would argue, like I said earlier, 490 00:37:07,920 --> 00:37:12,280 Speaker 2: the republic has fallen, right, And it's not about Republicans 491 00:37:12,520 --> 00:37:18,800 Speaker 2: and checks and bounces about whether ten to fifteen people. 492 00:37:18,920 --> 00:37:23,040 Speaker 2: We know who those people are, right, we know their names. 493 00:37:24,080 --> 00:37:33,200 Speaker 2: Will they process somebody right on national television. That's clearly unfit, right. 494 00:37:33,239 --> 00:37:37,000 Speaker 2: I mean these people were flying a commercial jetliner. You 495 00:37:37,040 --> 00:37:40,799 Speaker 2: got to leave your kid with them, right, whatever circumstance, 496 00:37:40,880 --> 00:37:45,320 Speaker 2: analogy that works for you, Right. I think most people 497 00:37:45,360 --> 00:37:52,840 Speaker 2: would be like those people in these positions. The great 498 00:37:52,960 --> 00:37:57,000 Speaker 2: question in our politics is just really you're going to 499 00:37:57,040 --> 00:37:57,719 Speaker 2: say yes to that? 500 00:37:58,280 --> 00:38:02,759 Speaker 1: Are you talking about Republicans? Senators like like Susan Collins 501 00:38:03,000 --> 00:38:07,160 Speaker 1: and who else comes to mind, Steve. 502 00:38:07,480 --> 00:38:14,480 Speaker 2: Sullivan in Alaska, there's been a couple of them, Mitch McConnell. Mitch, 503 00:38:15,280 --> 00:38:22,279 Speaker 2: does Mitch McConnell believe that Pete Hegsa is fit to 504 00:38:22,360 --> 00:38:25,879 Speaker 2: be the Secretary of Defense? I don't think he has 505 00:38:25,920 --> 00:38:30,239 Speaker 2: any core right, but I don't know what he's going 506 00:38:30,320 --> 00:38:30,759 Speaker 2: to do. 507 00:38:31,239 --> 00:38:34,040 Speaker 1: And he has said he felt liberated not having to 508 00:38:34,080 --> 00:38:35,360 Speaker 1: be the majority leader. 509 00:38:36,239 --> 00:38:40,160 Speaker 2: And there's nothing that makes me crazier than the sense 510 00:38:40,760 --> 00:38:45,160 Speaker 2: that I was the Senate majority leader, but now I'm liberated. No, 511 00:38:46,040 --> 00:38:50,040 Speaker 2: if you have power, you can exercise it how you wish, 512 00:38:50,120 --> 00:38:52,440 Speaker 2: when you wish, for whatever cause you wish. And that's 513 00:38:52,480 --> 00:38:56,200 Speaker 2: why people like John McCain when he was at his best. 514 00:38:56,600 --> 00:38:59,319 Speaker 2: The issue here is right, it's not there's no there's 515 00:38:59,360 --> 00:39:02,319 Speaker 2: nothing to just cover. There's new bad stuff that will 516 00:39:02,360 --> 00:39:05,280 Speaker 2: come out, for sure, because that's who these people are. 517 00:39:05,800 --> 00:39:10,400 Speaker 2: But there's nothing right that will make them more wet, 518 00:39:10,960 --> 00:39:15,200 Speaker 2: more saturated by unfitness than they already are. So the 519 00:39:15,280 --> 00:39:18,879 Speaker 2: question is, is really like Susan Collins right? And three 520 00:39:18,960 --> 00:39:28,359 Speaker 2: more so, are you kidding me? Her? Him? Christine Known? 521 00:39:29,960 --> 00:39:33,280 Speaker 1: Come on, I want to ask you about Pam BONDI 522 00:39:33,480 --> 00:39:37,279 Speaker 1: what other reasons do you think she should not be confirmed? 523 00:39:38,160 --> 00:39:45,840 Speaker 2: Because in twenty twenty three she said that the prosecutors 524 00:39:46,360 --> 00:39:53,440 Speaker 2: and the Justice Department officials who prosecuted Trump should themselves 525 00:39:53,480 --> 00:39:59,839 Speaker 2: be prosecuted for revenge. We live in a nation where 526 00:39:59,840 --> 00:40:03,960 Speaker 2: the rule of law is supreme. Donald Trump is prosecuted 527 00:40:04,600 --> 00:40:08,200 Speaker 2: because he broke the law and he was found guilty. 528 00:40:09,239 --> 00:40:14,520 Speaker 2: And then the Supreme Court held that the president has immunity, which, 529 00:40:14,560 --> 00:40:17,000 Speaker 2: though is a new and novel concept and all the 530 00:40:17,000 --> 00:40:22,600 Speaker 2: broad scope of American jurisprudence and history, the court does 531 00:40:22,640 --> 00:40:25,799 Speaker 2: in fact have the power to say so and to 532 00:40:25,880 --> 00:40:28,400 Speaker 2: make it so. And now it is so, and so 533 00:40:28,520 --> 00:40:34,120 Speaker 2: those charges have been dismissed. Because of the complexity the 534 00:40:34,320 --> 00:40:42,239 Speaker 2: layerings of the American justice system that always offer another 535 00:40:42,520 --> 00:40:50,000 Speaker 2: opportunity for another look on a question of law. So 536 00:40:50,239 --> 00:40:53,480 Speaker 2: I would be despite not being someone who would ever 537 00:40:53,600 --> 00:40:56,080 Speaker 2: pick him, if I was in the Senate and I 538 00:40:56,160 --> 00:41:00,440 Speaker 2: had a vote, I would be like yes to Marco. 539 00:41:03,160 --> 00:41:06,600 Speaker 2: I would be no to all of these other people, 540 00:41:07,520 --> 00:41:11,280 Speaker 2: because there's no case to be made that these people 541 00:41:12,000 --> 00:41:16,319 Speaker 2: can run these agencies, do these jobs, and these are 542 00:41:16,360 --> 00:41:19,879 Speaker 2: life and death jobs, are ludicrous appointments. 543 00:41:20,000 --> 00:41:22,760 Speaker 1: What I think is interesting is so many of these 544 00:41:22,800 --> 00:41:27,960 Speaker 1: people have absolutely no expertise in the agencies they are 545 00:41:28,000 --> 00:41:29,480 Speaker 1: being tasked to run. 546 00:41:30,200 --> 00:41:37,879 Speaker 2: There's no difference, none, between making Pete Hegsath the Secretary 547 00:41:37,920 --> 00:41:43,160 Speaker 2: of Defense and having an Apprentice episode and making Meat 548 00:41:43,200 --> 00:41:48,400 Speaker 2: Love or Little John or both of them together with 549 00:41:48,560 --> 00:41:54,440 Speaker 2: Gary Busey the Secretary of Defense. It's the same thing. 550 00:41:55,040 --> 00:41:58,800 Speaker 2: When Donald Trump was on the Apprentice set, he assembled 551 00:41:58,840 --> 00:42:06,120 Speaker 2: a menagerie of characters that coagulated there same thing. And 552 00:42:06,160 --> 00:42:15,480 Speaker 2: those are the people that are his casting call him, her, him, 553 00:42:15,520 --> 00:42:19,319 Speaker 2: and he I might to say, he doesn't understand. And 554 00:42:19,360 --> 00:42:24,080 Speaker 2: these people right have been put forward. There are other 555 00:42:24,280 --> 00:42:29,760 Speaker 2: people in the country. We call them senators. Their job 556 00:42:30,880 --> 00:42:36,560 Speaker 2: is to objectively look at those people say and the 557 00:42:36,680 --> 00:42:41,440 Speaker 2: diplomatic way to do this and Republicans will have to 558 00:42:41,480 --> 00:42:45,279 Speaker 2: do it this way, and they should be given the 559 00:42:45,520 --> 00:42:51,520 Speaker 2: space to do this by their Democratic colleagues because it's 560 00:42:51,560 --> 00:42:57,680 Speaker 2: good for the country. Trump can never be wrong. We've 561 00:42:57,760 --> 00:42:58,560 Speaker 2: left that world. 562 00:42:59,000 --> 00:43:02,120 Speaker 1: What will happen to some of these Senator Steve if 563 00:43:02,160 --> 00:43:05,240 Speaker 1: they vote not to confirm some of these vopots. 564 00:43:06,120 --> 00:43:11,040 Speaker 2: So what these senators their back door of their escape 565 00:43:11,040 --> 00:43:14,560 Speaker 2: patch to be able to go out and say again, 566 00:43:15,440 --> 00:43:18,360 Speaker 2: because in this world Trump can never be wrong? Is 567 00:43:18,360 --> 00:43:24,440 Speaker 2: that Trump didn't know? Trump was ill served. Trump is 568 00:43:24,520 --> 00:43:29,759 Speaker 2: christ Like, he makes no mistakes ever. But there are 569 00:43:29,880 --> 00:43:34,400 Speaker 2: judases around Christ, and they are judases around Trump. And 570 00:43:34,480 --> 00:43:37,560 Speaker 2: it will be the judas who is blamed, never Trump, 571 00:43:37,920 --> 00:43:41,800 Speaker 2: by a Republican senator, for sending Trump into a position 572 00:43:41,840 --> 00:43:45,879 Speaker 2: where Trump was humiliated. It isn't that Donald Trump knew 573 00:43:45,880 --> 00:43:49,640 Speaker 2: who mack Gates was. It was that Donald Trump just 574 00:43:49,680 --> 00:43:52,920 Speaker 2: found out who mack Gates was because Donald Trump is 575 00:43:52,960 --> 00:43:56,120 Speaker 2: badly served. Because of course, Donald Trump is an angenoux. 576 00:43:56,360 --> 00:44:00,879 Speaker 2: How could he have known. So it's important to appreciate 577 00:44:01,000 --> 00:44:07,960 Speaker 2: the performative aspects of all of this stuff. Right, if 578 00:44:08,000 --> 00:44:14,160 Speaker 2: the federal government shrank by some gigantic percentage and amount, Right, 579 00:44:14,200 --> 00:44:17,440 Speaker 2: there's still going to be a need to deliver food 580 00:44:17,560 --> 00:44:23,240 Speaker 2: services to poor children four years from now. What's going 581 00:44:23,320 --> 00:44:27,560 Speaker 2: to be left behind is the nothingness that gives democrats 582 00:44:27,600 --> 00:44:32,200 Speaker 2: and progressives their golden age and golden opportunity because for 583 00:44:32,239 --> 00:44:34,600 Speaker 2: the first time in a long time, they get to 584 00:44:34,719 --> 00:44:39,399 Speaker 2: imagine something new, something different, how to deliver twenty first 585 00:44:39,480 --> 00:44:43,440 Speaker 2: century services to people who need it without having to 586 00:44:43,520 --> 00:44:47,080 Speaker 2: defend the broken institutions made in the nineteen fifties, in 587 00:44:47,200 --> 00:44:51,200 Speaker 2: nineteen sixties that are going to be gone, right. You're 588 00:44:51,200 --> 00:44:53,719 Speaker 2: going to be gone right by the time we get 589 00:44:53,719 --> 00:44:55,480 Speaker 2: to the end of the Trump presidency. But they're not 590 00:44:55,480 --> 00:44:59,200 Speaker 2: going to be gone by Elon Musker or Ramaswami. 591 00:45:00,040 --> 00:45:03,240 Speaker 1: I'm taking away from this conversation, Steve that you're pretty 592 00:45:03,480 --> 00:45:07,520 Speaker 1: stoked about this incoming crew of folks. 593 00:45:09,840 --> 00:45:14,560 Speaker 2: I think that was a joke, right, I think John 594 00:45:14,640 --> 00:45:17,160 Speaker 2: Lewis talked about this, right, you know, I don't you know, 595 00:45:17,239 --> 00:45:22,200 Speaker 2: my life overlapped with his. You know, I went to 596 00:45:22,239 --> 00:45:26,080 Speaker 2: Auschwitz with LVS L on the sixtieth anniversary of its 597 00:45:26,120 --> 00:45:29,879 Speaker 2: liberation when I worked in the White House, and this 598 00:45:29,920 --> 00:45:33,200 Speaker 2: is the time that I was born into. I was 599 00:45:33,239 --> 00:45:36,560 Speaker 2: born in nineteen seventy. I was ten years old when 600 00:45:36,640 --> 00:45:39,839 Speaker 2: Ronald Reagan became president. It's a long time ago. Now. 601 00:45:40,840 --> 00:45:46,400 Speaker 2: I was thirty when the millennia turned and Bill Clinton 602 00:45:46,480 --> 00:45:49,839 Speaker 2: was president. We were the most powerful nation in the 603 00:45:49,920 --> 00:45:53,759 Speaker 2: history of the world, pre eminent in all things to 604 00:45:53,960 --> 00:45:56,400 Speaker 2: such a degree that people were saying, we're at the 605 00:45:56,480 --> 00:46:02,960 Speaker 2: end of history. Watched a lot happen over the last 606 00:46:02,960 --> 00:46:05,440 Speaker 2: twenty years, and all I can say in this moment 607 00:46:05,520 --> 00:46:12,920 Speaker 2: for any American, our country's gonna outlive all of us. 608 00:46:14,040 --> 00:46:18,000 Speaker 2: We'll never see the whole. We're never gonna get to 609 00:46:18,040 --> 00:46:23,120 Speaker 2: see the ending. We just won't, right. And I think 610 00:46:23,160 --> 00:46:28,759 Speaker 2: this is like so deeply important to appreciate in the 611 00:46:28,800 --> 00:46:35,080 Speaker 2: context of there are things bigger than us, and as 612 00:46:35,120 --> 00:46:38,759 Speaker 2: an American, there is nothing bigger than us than the 613 00:46:38,880 --> 00:46:43,600 Speaker 2: United States. And in our story, this chapter of it, 614 00:46:44,280 --> 00:46:47,799 Speaker 2: I think it's exciting to be part of it and 615 00:46:47,880 --> 00:46:51,720 Speaker 2: to oppose something that I think is deeply terrible, because 616 00:46:51,880 --> 00:46:57,640 Speaker 2: on the other side of it is something a lot better. 617 00:46:58,560 --> 00:47:06,399 Speaker 2: That's the greatness of the country. Lincoln was preceded by 618 00:47:06,440 --> 00:47:11,640 Speaker 2: the worst president in American history until Trump became president. 619 00:47:13,360 --> 00:47:16,440 Speaker 2: And so I think Trump is going to be a 620 00:47:16,480 --> 00:47:25,320 Speaker 2: disaster disaster, but the country will endure, damage will be done, 621 00:47:25,719 --> 00:47:33,799 Speaker 2: terrible consequences might happen. But one of the consequences that 622 00:47:33,840 --> 00:47:41,200 Speaker 2: will come from the disaster ahead is greatness that will 623 00:47:41,200 --> 00:47:45,520 Speaker 2: emerge from it, a greatness that didn't exist in the 624 00:47:45,600 --> 00:47:52,840 Speaker 2: moment when what's to come could have been prevented. Destiny 625 00:47:53,960 --> 00:47:58,560 Speaker 2: did not shape the events at hand like that. So 626 00:47:59,120 --> 00:48:05,560 Speaker 2: I think in this moment, opposing what is about to 627 00:48:05,640 --> 00:48:11,400 Speaker 2: come is of deep importance, and I'm excited to have 628 00:48:11,440 --> 00:48:19,960 Speaker 2: a small voice in that effort because for me, some 629 00:48:20,040 --> 00:48:24,680 Speaker 2: people are great at sports and some people love music 630 00:48:25,760 --> 00:48:32,359 Speaker 2: and painting. This is what I care about. I am 631 00:48:33,520 --> 00:48:34,200 Speaker 2: an American. 632 00:48:35,320 --> 00:48:38,960 Speaker 1: Steve Schmidt, thank you as always for talking with me. 633 00:48:39,280 --> 00:48:42,480 Speaker 1: I always appreciate our conversations. Thank you, Steve. 634 00:48:43,320 --> 00:48:45,839 Speaker 2: Great to be with you always, always great to see you.