Speaker 1: Welcome, Welcome, Welcome back to the Bob Left SAIDs podcast.
Speaker 1: My guest today is Ed Rulan of Collective soul Head.
Speaker 1: Tell me about the new album.
Speaker 2: Well, it's a double album. We'll start there when we
Speaker 2: set out to make a single record, but we kind
Speaker 2: of got inspired by where we were recording the record.
Speaker 2: My brother who's in the band, lives in San Diego,
Speaker 2: and I was like, we had the month of January
Speaker 2: off in twenty twenty three, and I was like, man,
Speaker 2: I got some songs. Let's get the band together make
Speaker 2: another record. We already had one plan to go out
Speaker 2: and he said, uh, well we've never recorded west of
Speaker 2: the Mississippi. Why don't we record out here and near me?
Speaker 2: And I about five or six years ago, had run
Speaker 2: into or met, befriended the people that owned Elvis Presley's
Speaker 2: estate in Palm Springs, two homes when he passed away.
Speaker 2: Of course everybody knows Graceland, and then he on this
Speaker 2: place in Palm Springs, which when he passed was just
Speaker 2: left like Priscilla wanted nothing to do with it, Lisa
Speaker 2: Marie wanted nothing to do with it. But he spent
Speaker 2: his last Thanksgiving, his last Christmas, his last birthday, and
Speaker 2: he last three recordings he did there in that house.
Speaker 2: So I'd seen the home before and RCA acoustically treated
Speaker 2: it for him to record there. So I called those
Speaker 2: guys up, my friends, and I was like, Hey, can
Speaker 2: we have Elvis's house for the month of January? And
Speaker 2: they said, of course, yeah, whatever you want. You know,
Speaker 2: there's no furniture, there's nothing in there. You know, the
Speaker 2: water may run, it may not. You may have hot water,
Speaker 2: you may not. So we were like, all right, we'll
Speaker 2: take it though it's Elvis's house. So we go out
Speaker 2: there and we put furniture in there because there's no furniture,
Speaker 2: and just set up the studio in there and started recording.
Speaker 2: And the funny thing when it went in to do,
Speaker 2: like I said, a single record. The guys we're old school,
Speaker 2: like Johnny. Our drummer sets his drums up and then
Speaker 2: we circle horseshoe around him and I present them a
Speaker 2: song if they like it. We kind of worked through
Speaker 2: it for an hour to see the parts and the vibe,
Speaker 2: what we're feeling, and then we do maybe three, no
Speaker 2: more than five takes. We do five takes because I
Speaker 2: count them. If it's five takes. It's like, we got
Speaker 2: to come back to this. It's usually it's three takes.
Speaker 2: So in four days we recorded twelve songs. And I
Speaker 2: was like, well, we still got three weeks to go, guys,
Speaker 2: why don't y'all just go enjoy golf, hiking, biking, go
Speaker 2: to Joshua Tree. I don't care. Let me just see
Speaker 2: if I could come up with some other songs. So
Speaker 2: I stayed at Elvis's house for four days and I
Speaker 2: went to what they called his party room where he
Speaker 2: throw all his parties. And I'm a Vinyl guy. I
Speaker 2: love Vinyl. So I had fifty of my heroes albums
Speaker 2: that I knew I wanted to listen to. Shift out,
Speaker 2: got a record player, and I just sat in Elvis's
Speaker 2: party room dance, listen to my heroes, or as I
Speaker 2: like to call him, my professor's teachers. And somehow came
Speaker 2: up with ten more songs and they came back in
Speaker 2: and there you have it, a double album.
Speaker 1: Okay, how were you aware of this house?
Speaker 2: I had met through a show a friend, my friend,
Speaker 2: a guy named Michael Rogers. We called him Spike. It
Speaker 2: was like, you know, we have this house in palm
Speaker 2: springs in Elvis's house. He knew I was an Elvis fan.
Speaker 2: I was like, that's crazy, and I said, I want
Speaker 2: to come out. He goes anytime. So I came out,
Speaker 2: and then him and Tim the other owner, were like,
Speaker 2: we're thinking, what We're trying to figure out what to
Speaker 2: do with this house because you don't want to lose
Speaker 2: what it was because it's Elvis, but it was you know,
Speaker 2: it's dated, beautiful piece of property. But they didn't want
Speaker 2: to take away from where Elvis lived. You know, it
Speaker 2: wasn't a tear down. They really wanted to try to
Speaker 2: maintain and contain, sustain what they thought Elvis would have
Speaker 2: been living in that time. So they ask if I
Speaker 2: would be interested in doing like a a show, like
Speaker 2: a YouTube show where artists would come in and they
Speaker 2: would perform their new songs, and then they performed two
Speaker 2: Elvis songs. So it started there, and then the pandemic happened,
Speaker 2: and then it just kind of dissipated from there because
Speaker 2: the whole universe dissipated for a second there. But we
Speaker 2: still kept in touch, and I just like I said,
Speaker 2: I just made the call to him and was like, hey,
Speaker 2: you still got that Elvis house anything going on, So
Speaker 2: it was really just luck of the draw. And it's
Speaker 2: actually cool to think that I am the only man
Speaker 2: besides Elvis Presley to sleep in his bedroom as we know.
Speaker 1: Of Okay, what about recording equipment.
Speaker 2: I always I grew up as an engineer recording in
Speaker 2: the studios. I've always had recording gear and I had
Speaker 2: I wrote it down. With today's technology, we use what's
Speaker 2: called Apollo, so I have a half rack, I have
Speaker 2: all these digital mics, and literally I just loaded to
Speaker 2: U haul and had my production fern drive from Atlanta
Speaker 2: to Palm Springs with the U Haul and my SUV
Speaker 2: and we just put it in Lisa Maurice. The control
Speaker 2: room was in Lisa Marie's bedroom. Engineer producer Sean slept
Speaker 2: in Priscilla, and I slept in Elvis's bedroom and the
Speaker 2: rest of the guys. I rented a house that was
Speaker 2: Burt Lancaster's house, which is where Here to Eternity came
Speaker 2: from because of the big movie that him and Frank
Speaker 2: Sinatra from Here to Eternity was a big movie for them.
Speaker 2: So I was like, so the title came really easy.
Speaker 2: I was like, here to attorney, the we're having fun
Speaker 2: and it was that simple. Like with today's technology, it's
Speaker 2: it's pack it up and go.
Speaker 1: Okay, you're in Atlanta. You know, people want to go
Speaker 1: to warmer weather. It's pretty warm in Georgia where they
Speaker 1: go to Florida. Have you ever been to Palm Springs before?
Speaker 2: Many times the first manager I had, we went to
Speaker 2: la to see if I could get a We were
Speaker 2: looking for an attorney because that was the first thing,
Speaker 2: and try to shop my songs for a publishing deal
Speaker 2: because I didn't have a band. I just wanted a
Speaker 2: publishing deal. And he woke me up one morning and said,
Speaker 2: we're going to Palm Springs. So we went there and
Speaker 2: we went on hikes, and that was my first experience
Speaker 2: with Palm Springs, but I had been there many times
Speaker 2: prior to that. Our old tour manager, who was our
Speaker 2: tour manager for thirteen fourteen years, moved out there, so
Speaker 2: I would just go spend you know, long weekends with him,
Speaker 2: and I just fell in love with it. I love
Speaker 2: the history, the vibe. The heat doesn't bother me. Like
Speaker 2: you said, I'm from Atlanta, heat does not bother me. Actually,
Speaker 2: I'd rather have dry heat than the humidity that we
Speaker 2: have here. But because I could play thirty six holes
Speaker 2: of golf and dry heat, I can't do it in humidity.
Speaker 2: And I just fell in love with the culture. I
Speaker 2: love that it's non judgmental. I mean, it's just anything goes.
Speaker 2: And I mean, if I had mine to do, but
Speaker 2: I have a family and two boys, and I would
Speaker 2: love to live there. I just love. And there's so
Speaker 2: many other artists out there that live there now, musicians
Speaker 2: and artists. I just I just find it's funny. I
Speaker 2: only second home I ever had was in Arizona, and
Speaker 2: I fell in love with it because I love the
Speaker 2: living desert. I guess just because living in Georgia, where
Speaker 2: you feel like you're living in a shrub, you know,
Speaker 2: cut a little shrub here and put a house. I
Speaker 2: just yeah, I'm a spiritual cat, and I kind of
Speaker 2: just fell in love the spirituality of living deserts Vegas.
Speaker 2: Vegas is not a living desert. It's it's living, all right,
Speaker 2: but it's not a you know, ecosystem living like I love,
Speaker 2: like Palm Springs and Phoenix, Scottsdale, things like that. So
Speaker 2: I just I just fell in love with it. My
Speaker 2: wife tells me all the time. She's like, man, I
Speaker 2: hope I don't get run over. If I do, I
Speaker 2: know where you're gonna end up, Palm Springs.
Speaker 1: I was like, you're right, And do you find the
Speaker 1: environment inspirational creatively?
Speaker 2: One hundred percent? That's why we only we only recorded.
Speaker 2: I think we've only done two. This is our twelfth
Speaker 2: recording studio album, and I think we've done too maybe
Speaker 2: three in proper studios. We love homes. We like once again,
Speaker 2: we're Southern boys and we're very family. Everybody grew up
Speaker 2: with each other and knows each other, and we like
Speaker 2: the environment that a home sets. There is no clock,
Speaker 2: you're not ticking. You don't have to be there at ten.
Speaker 2: You could. You could wake up at eight, have a
Speaker 2: cup of coffee and be inspired. And also like that
Speaker 2: you're a part of the community. It's something different. If
Speaker 2: you're in a studio, you're not part of a community
Speaker 2: because you feel like you have to be in that
Speaker 2: room with no windows or anything like that. When you're
Speaker 2: in a house, you got windows. You see life moving,
Speaker 2: you see kids, you see everybody walking, hiking, whatever they're doing.
Speaker 2: So it's for us and I'm not saying that's the
Speaker 2: right way to do it, or it works for every band,
Speaker 2: but for us, we love that we were a strange
Speaker 2: rock and roll band. We don't. We not only like
Speaker 2: each other, we love each other and we love each
Speaker 2: other's company. So to me, when we go to these destinations,
Speaker 2: and I'll use it in that term, it kind of
Speaker 2: brings in the vibrations from the community and it kind
Speaker 2: of inspires us. And you know, I'm old school. I
Speaker 2: do like the history of the Stones and Zeppelin, you know,
Speaker 2: renting castles or getting in you know, mix you know,
Speaker 2: South of France house and just recording making it work.
Speaker 2: It wasn't as much about the acoustic as it was
Speaker 2: about the spirit of what they were doing. So that's
Speaker 2: that's kind of where our gig is.
Speaker 1: Okay, you mentioned thirty six, so you know a round
Speaker 1: and a half of golf. Are you a good golfer?
Speaker 1: Do you play a lot of golf?
Speaker 2: I try to. I would love to. The first time
Speaker 2: I ever played golf we were touring with Van Halen
Speaker 2: and Eddie van Halen came on the bus and he said,
Speaker 2: we're playing golf tomorrow, cigarette hanging out and I was like,
Speaker 2: you're Eddie Van Halen will do whatever you want to do.
Speaker 2: So I got up and he said, one of the
Speaker 2: coolest things ever. He goes, I believe you're gonna have
Speaker 2: a long career. He said. I really like what you do.
Speaker 2: I love your personality or your spirit, he goes, and
Speaker 2: I'll tell you something right now. I'm gonna give you
Speaker 2: some advice. Every hotel room looks the same. In his words,
Speaker 2: He's like, I have a shitter, a bed, a TV,
Speaker 2: a telephone, and he says, you end up at the bar.
Speaker 2: He says, what you need to do is get out,
Speaker 2: you play golf, bike or something. But I want to
Speaker 2: take you to play golf. See if you fall in
Speaker 2: love with it. So my first round of golf was
Speaker 2: with Eddie van at Woodlands in Houston, Texas.
Speaker 1: And how often do you play? Now?
Speaker 2: As much as I can. I'm playing tomorrow morning. I
Speaker 2: just did. And I get to announce this. I do
Speaker 2: a lot of stuff for Saint Jude. I go to
Speaker 2: the Warmer Burger and the Ram and I just came
Speaker 2: back and they just asked me to host the one
Speaker 2: in Naples, Florida this year. So it's my golf tournament
Speaker 2: man for Saint Jude. What a great cause, great place.
Speaker 2: So yeah. And the other cool thing about golf, My
Speaker 2: wife is so cool. When we got married, I was
Speaker 2: really into it and I bought her a set of
Speaker 2: clubs and she said, no, take them back. That's boytime,
Speaker 2: that's your boytime. And I'm like, all right. I started
Speaker 2: taking it too seriously, and then I realized, man, is
Speaker 2: this is just fellowship. You know, it's you know, I've
Speaker 2: met some of the coolest people on the planet. I'm
Speaker 2: the worst golfer that's played the greatest courses on the planet.
Speaker 2: But hey, I love it. It's just so much fun.
Speaker 1: Okay, let's go back to the album. Needless to say,
Speaker 1: the music business on the recording end, it's very different.
Speaker 1: When you had your initial hits in the nineties, it's
Speaker 1: hard to reach everybody. So for someone who's had international hits,
Speaker 1: do you have the same motivation.
Speaker 2: We've always had the same motivation, and that is for
Speaker 2: us to be happy with what we created. Is if
Speaker 2: you can't be happy with what you've done, you can't
Speaker 2: expect anybody else to. We've never been one to chase
Speaker 2: hit songs anything like that. We literally look at each
Speaker 2: other at the end of the session of the song,
Speaker 2: we're like, everybody call and we're like and usually we're
Speaker 2: all high five in each other, going, man, we got
Speaker 2: lucky again. Or however we do it, however we make
Speaker 2: it happen, And that's that's how we approach it. I
Speaker 2: think you can get caught up in that craziness, and
Speaker 2: we did for a second. You know, you sell a
Speaker 2: million albums and then you go, why didn't we sell
Speaker 2: a million in one? You know, you get caught up
Speaker 2: in that rabbit hole. You're going to lose perspective real quick. So,
Speaker 2: but with the songs and the records, we've always been grounded,
Speaker 2: if that makes sense, Like it's it's about the song.
Speaker 2: We're not like, oh this is this is a hit? Now?
Speaker 2: Who knows what a hit is? And if you think
Speaker 2: you do, why didn't you do it when you were
Speaker 2: fourteen fifteen, sixteen? Nobody knows. It's just a timing and place.
Speaker 2: But once again, the main, the cornerstone of all of
Speaker 2: it is how you feel as a band and are
Speaker 2: you happy? Do you feel fulfilled with what you just did?
Speaker 2: And if you can feel that, nobody can take that
Speaker 2: away from you. It doesn't mean everybody's gonna like it,
Speaker 2: and that's cool. But if you're fulfilled with it, you win.
Speaker 1: So you make a record in today's change marketplace, what
Speaker 1: are your expectations?
Speaker 2: I don't know. That's a good question. Let me think
Speaker 2: of you know, my expectation is that we still present
Speaker 2: ourselves musically artistically, and then to honestly go play live.
Speaker 2: We love playing live. That's that's our favorite thing to
Speaker 2: do as a band. We're like some bad frat fraternity.
Speaker 2: Like we love being around each other. I mean we
Speaker 2: high five, hug each other, you know, make pranks on
Speaker 2: each other and kid with each other. But it does
Speaker 2: start with the song. But then once that's done, it's
Speaker 2: it's all about just getting on the road. Man.
Speaker 1: Okay. Now the group paid for the record, right, correct,
Speaker 1: So when you start, do you have in mind how
Speaker 1: much money you want to spend, Because it's your money.
Speaker 2: We keep it within a budget. But I will be honest.
Speaker 2: When the Elvis thing came up, I was like, boys,
Speaker 2: we're gonna have We're just gonna have fun. There was
Speaker 2: no limit to be and nobody's crazy, nobody's doing anything stupid,
Speaker 2: you know. I was like, this is a once in
Speaker 2: a lifetime thing, and we knew it was gonna be
Speaker 2: our thirtieth record. We didn't know it was going to
Speaker 2: be a double album. Then when we decided it was
Speaker 2: to be a double album and we were so inspired
Speaker 2: being there, I was like, you know what, go get
Speaker 2: a nice steak dinner, you know, get you a nice
Speaker 2: bottle of wine. Let's enjoy and absorb this moment. We've
Speaker 2: earned it and the guys in the band have earned it.
Speaker 2: And that one was a little expensive. But you know,
Speaker 2: I'm actually as this morning, just rented a place in
Speaker 2: the mountains in Tennessee, a cabin where we're going to
Speaker 2: do our next record in October. But I keep it
Speaker 2: on a budget. You know, I got to it. I mean,
Speaker 2: you can spend everything. I got two boys I got
Speaker 2: to put through college.
Speaker 1: Come on now, Okay, so the record is done. You're
Speaker 1: the record company. Getting the record on digital services is
Speaker 1: not that difficult. What do you do for promotion in marketing?
Speaker 1: Since you know you're your own record company.
Speaker 2: I call a man called Fred Kraschell. Fred Kroschell worked
Speaker 2: at Maverick Records and met him twenty I think twenty
Speaker 2: one years ago when we first went independent, and that
Speaker 2: is that is. It's it's his job. He's gig and
Speaker 2: he knows. If if I could tell you, I can
Speaker 2: tell you how many people I've met that has said
Speaker 2: a negative thing about Fred Krischell, that would be zero.
Speaker 2: He's the most well liked, well respected man in the
Speaker 2: industry and one of, if not the hardest working man.
Speaker 2: I call him sometimes and forget I'm East coast, he's
Speaker 2: West coast, but he's up. He's like, Eddie, what's up?
Speaker 2: What we doing today? Like so it You know, one
Speaker 2: of the smartest things I've learned to do in my
Speaker 2: life is to be the dumbest man in the room.
Speaker 2: And Fred is a smart man in that. So he
Speaker 2: teaches me. But also I can trust him and I
Speaker 2: have the and he has the freedom, and he makes
Speaker 2: it happens. He's done them all. He's just a great
Speaker 2: He wants to again. It's nice to be able to
Speaker 2: work with people. You know, you got to think about Fred.
Speaker 2: He was part of two of the top ten selling
Speaker 2: albums of all time, a Linus More sets Jagged Littlepill
Speaker 2: and Michael Jackson's Thriller. And for me to have the
Speaker 2: knowledge that he has to just share with me and
Speaker 2: work with me is amazing. So I'm just blessed to
Speaker 2: know the cat from a personal standpoint, forget the business side.
Speaker 2: He's a fun cat.
Speaker 1: Okay, so you go on the road, how much of
Speaker 1: the new album are you going to play?
Speaker 2: It depends on the set times that we have. We're
Speaker 2: going out with Hoodie, so we get fifty minutes, so
Speaker 2: we do the first two songs or new songs, because
Speaker 2: that's not the pee break area I call it. So
Speaker 2: they don't know that they're new. They're just excited that
Speaker 2: there's music going on, so it kind of sneak to
Speaker 2: in there, and then we'll do some hits and we'll
Speaker 2: throw one more in there in a fifty minute set.
Speaker 2: But when we get out and do our own shows, well,
Speaker 2: I don't want to do over five. I do five,
Speaker 2: you know, And it's tough to pick and choose, especially
Speaker 2: when you just did twenty, but you do. I like
Speaker 2: to do five. I think that's fair. It's fair to
Speaker 2: the audience, you know, because they are there for the
Speaker 2: songs that got us there on stage. So you don't
Speaker 2: want to you want to stretch yourself too thin, if
Speaker 2: that makes sense, But you do want to let them
Speaker 2: know that you're still making music and songs are still
Speaker 2: as good as they were before.
Speaker 1: Do you have hardcore collective soul fans?
Speaker 2: I guess so. I don't know. I'm not a social
Speaker 2: media guy. I don't keep up with that kind of stuff.
Speaker 2: I literally get up and watch sports, keep up with
Speaker 2: the news a little bit. But I love just playing music.
Speaker 2: I love playing the piano. I'll play the piano and
Speaker 2: I try to write every day or just let something flow.
Speaker 2: It doesn't mean it's good, bad, or and different. It
Speaker 2: may be just a little idea that'll last, but it's
Speaker 2: just an extension of who I am. I love and
Speaker 2: I try to sing every day because it's a muscle.
Speaker 2: You want to keep your voice going. So I don't
Speaker 2: know much about I guess we do. People still show up,
Speaker 2: and still people listen to what we're doing.
Speaker 1: Well, how much you know, we've had the pandemic, But
Speaker 1: generally speaking, how much does collective soul work.
Speaker 2: We usually do seventy five shows a year, and then
Speaker 2: I would say I'll do privates and then I'll do
Speaker 2: charitable events. So for me, it's around ninety to one
Speaker 2: hundred a year, so and that never changes. It's pretty
Speaker 2: pretty consistent. You know, Charlie keeps us Charlie, Charlie our manager,
Speaker 2: Charlie keeps us busy.
Speaker 1: And what kind of buildings do you play?
Speaker 2: It varies, you know, it could be a two thousand,
Speaker 2: and then with Hoodie we're out in outdoor amphitheaters, so
Speaker 2: that's eighteen thousand. But I don't I don't look at
Speaker 2: an audience's success. Like when my wife and I go
Speaker 2: on holiday and I walk by a bar and there's
Speaker 2: a band in there playing. I'm like, she knows what
Speaker 2: I'm about to do because I just love to play.
Speaker 2: I was like, I need to work, wrote these new songs.
Speaker 2: I'm gonna go in, so I'll go in and tip
Speaker 2: the band one hundred bucks. I'm like, can I just
Speaker 2: borrow a guitar? I just want to play, So I
Speaker 2: play the new songs and then I'll play like you know,
Speaker 2: people recognize December World or Shine something, and it never fails.
Speaker 2: They go, god, you sound just like that guy. I'm like,
Speaker 2: I said, by the way, I do look like that guy.
Speaker 2: I am that guy, But I just love I just
Speaker 2: like playing music. Man, It's just kind of my good.
Speaker 1: Well, so do you ultimately tell him you are that
Speaker 1: guy at.
Speaker 2: The end of the night. Yeah, you know, because I don't.
Speaker 2: I'm just trying to help the band out because I
Speaker 2: would have been doing that if I could. I still
Speaker 2: would love to do it. I enjoy that, and I
Speaker 2: actually enjoy them not knowing who I am, so I
Speaker 2: can work on my new songs without being judged. You know,
Speaker 2: if they knew, they go all right, that one sucks,
Speaker 2: you know, like just working on it on myself.
Speaker 1: Okay. So if you go on the road, the level
Speaker 1: you go on the road depends on how many tickets
Speaker 1: you sell. So you were selling a million albums. Nobody
Speaker 1: sells a million albums today. Has that changed the level
Speaker 1: of travel and how do you feel about that?
Speaker 3: Not?
Speaker 2: For us, it hasn't. I mean, we were never one
Speaker 2: of those band. We were never a stadium band or
Speaker 2: arena band. We were kind of mid level. So we've
Speaker 2: maintained that and Charlie, our manager, keep bringing him up,
Speaker 2: but he's been absolutely wonderful in maintaining that and helping
Speaker 2: hus grow yearly. Because when we first started, everybody knew
Speaker 2: the songs. They didn't know the band they you know,
Speaker 2: they they had no idea who sang the song. They
Speaker 2: just love the songs, you know, because everything happened so
Speaker 2: fast for us, So Charlie's been putting it together for us,
Speaker 2: like people now getting oh collector saw go see him
Speaker 2: and they see us play live and they love what
Speaker 2: we do. They know we love what we do. So
Speaker 2: it's maintained a real consistency, it really has over the years.
Speaker 2: There's never been a there's never been a big drop
Speaker 2: and there's never been a big peak. It's just maintained.
Speaker 2: Man kind of like the Dude and Big Lebowski. We're
Speaker 2: kind of like the rug that ties everything together.
Speaker 1: So how long have you been with Charlie and how'd
Speaker 1: you first connect with Charlie.
Speaker 2: I met Charlie years ago being in Atlanta. Charlie used
Speaker 2: to call when I had a band and he would
Speaker 2: he had nobody to open up, you know, he's a
Speaker 2: promoter and had nobody open up. He called me and go, Hey,
Speaker 2: I'm not paying anything, but you want to open up
Speaker 2: with this band. I was like, yeah, man, let's go.
Speaker 2: And then I mean, I think I've known Charlie for
Speaker 2: forty years I think now. And then when we were
Speaker 2: in management and we had discussions with other managers, I
Speaker 2: never forget to flow up to the buffalo. But we
Speaker 2: didn't feel at the time. I didn't feel it at
Speaker 2: that moment, and that was I don't know when, that
Speaker 2: was twenty years ago, twenty five. And then eventually we
Speaker 2: got to a position where and like I said, I've
Speaker 2: known Charlie and I've seen what he's done with all
Speaker 2: the bands he's managed, and I see his loyalty and
Speaker 2: I've witnessed I should say I've witnessed his loyalty, of
Speaker 2: which witnessed his hard work. And when we had to
Speaker 2: make a change, I was like, you know, I went
Speaker 2: to Charlie and it was that simple. It was, and
Speaker 2: it's been nothing but great. You know, it's nice to
Speaker 2: have a manager that is not afraid of you, and
Speaker 2: it's nice to have a manager who's not afraid of
Speaker 2: the artist. And we're not either one like, you know,
Speaker 2: we can have disagreements, but we don't get mad at
Speaker 2: each other. It's just like, what can we do? We're
Speaker 2: both here to resolve. Like he's so good at that,
Speaker 2: and it's been a blessing to have him.
Speaker 1: You had a contract to with the previous manager. What
Speaker 1: went on with the previous manager.
Speaker 2: Well, we didn't get paid. That's about all I can say.
Speaker 2: We didn't get paid, but we had to go to
Speaker 2: court and all that. But all we got out of
Speaker 2: it was I retained the name, and I retained the songs,
Speaker 2: and I retained the right to continue on as Collective Soul,
Speaker 2: which is, you know, once again, that's all I wanted
Speaker 2: that moment in my life.
Speaker 1: Did the guy just steal the money?
Speaker 2: I can't really say that he's passed. He passed about
Speaker 2: three years ago, but in the court rulings, we're really not,
Speaker 2: you know.
Speaker 1: Okay, but you know there have been bands like Bad
Speaker 1: Finger where the guys have literally committed suicide when they
Speaker 1: haven't gotten paid. So how did you cope with that?
Speaker 2: Man? I go back to and people think I'm and
Speaker 2: it's not. I go back to my parents. My parents
Speaker 2: were such strong people, very supportive, and it really came
Speaker 2: down to them, and not just me, but all the
Speaker 2: other band members. We all grew up in the same community,
Speaker 2: had the same kind of understanding of life and were
Speaker 2: raised very similar. I think it came down to our
Speaker 2: parents because there were there was times where I've never
Speaker 2: taken my life, or there's time it's like, man, what
Speaker 2: just happened, you know, all of a sudden, you shoot,
Speaker 2: you shot out of a shotgun. Then you're a dead
Speaker 2: bowling ball falling from the air. But it was it
Speaker 2: was family. It was family, family strength.
Speaker 1: Okay, you're going out with Edwin mccainn and Hoody. Do
Speaker 1: you know those guys.
Speaker 2: We've all known each other before, we all got signed,
Speaker 2: so being in the Southeast, and it's like a fraturn
Speaker 2: going back out, like we've known each other for over
Speaker 2: thirty years now, and to be able to go out
Speaker 2: and just hang with your buddies, like Edwin is one
Speaker 2: of the funniest men on the planet. And the Hoodie Boys,
Speaker 2: I hate to use the word, they're a hoop. They're fine,
Speaker 2: you know, and it's just it's almost like you're in
Speaker 2: college again. There's no egos, which is a great thing
Speaker 2: to have when you're on tour with other bands. There's
Speaker 2: no egos. Everybody supports each other and everybody wants each
Speaker 2: other to succeed as we did when we first met
Speaker 2: each other. We were so happy for you know, when
Speaker 2: we got signed, Hoody and the boys were extremely happy,
Speaker 2: and then we were for them. And then everyone gets
Speaker 2: signed there, you know, it's just a family kind of vibe.
Speaker 1: So, you know, Hoody really had a moment there in
Speaker 1: the mid nineties. Did you expect that and what do
Speaker 1: you think about that?
Speaker 2: I don't think they expect Nobody expects that. And I
Speaker 2: think they handle it great. I think, you know, to
Speaker 2: you think we shot we shot up really quick. But
Speaker 2: with Hoodie, they kind of they had a little swell
Speaker 2: to it. So I mean, that's a lot to take in,
Speaker 2: you know, what they had to go through, and they
Speaker 2: handled it great. And they've been nothing but gentlemen. And
Speaker 2: you know, and for Darius to go on to another
Speaker 2: career like he did, I mean, it's pretty uh inspiring,
Speaker 2: to be honest with you, That's the word I would
Speaker 2: use for Hoodie and Edwin. Also, they're very inspiring artists
Speaker 2: and friends.
Speaker 1: Okay, you're in Atlanta, Okay, needless to say, they Allman
Speaker 1: Brothers had a song called Hot Lanta. Al Cooper moved
Speaker 1: to Atlanta signed the Leonard Skinnard but at Disley date,
Speaker 1: Atlanta is an epicenter of hip hop.
Speaker 2: Correct.
Speaker 1: What's it like being a rock musician in Atlanta today?
Speaker 2: You know, I don't get out as much as I
Speaker 2: used to because you know, having children and wife, it
Speaker 2: takes your time up when you are home, you want
Speaker 2: to be with your family. But back in the day
Speaker 2: when we were coming up, or when I was coming
Speaker 2: up in the eighties and the early nineties, Atlanta it
Speaker 2: was just a hotbed of rock and roll. It was great,
Speaker 2: like it was incorporating Southern rock. Just I call it
Speaker 2: keeping the traid on the wheel. You know, it was
Speaker 2: so much fun. I don't see that anymore right now.
Speaker 2: I just don't. Being honest, and once again, maybe there
Speaker 2: I am sixty, so maybe I'm too old to recognize
Speaker 2: where it is and who it is. But it doesn't
Speaker 2: feel you know, I got a twenty five year old
Speaker 2: sign and I just go like, where do the rock clubs? Like?
Speaker 2: I just missed that stuff so much, not even playing it.
Speaker 2: I just used to love to go to him, you know,
Speaker 2: just the vibe of it all was, I don't know, man,
Speaker 2: felt like you had a halo. When I walked out,
Speaker 2: I was like, oh, yeah, I'm about to kick some
Speaker 2: ass here now. Man. That just fired me up. They
Speaker 2: would fire me up. I don't know where you find
Speaker 2: that in Atlanta right now, to be honest with.
Speaker 1: You, and who from Atlanta. Do you think deserve more
Speaker 1: success than they got from your era?
Speaker 2: Driving and Crime? Driving and Crime without a doubt, the
Speaker 2: Kevin Kenney is one of the best songwriters. That band's
Speaker 2: one of the best bands. I would go, Drive In
Speaker 2: and Crime. And there's an artist, well, Sheryl Crow's band director.
Speaker 2: But he's like our sixth member to Peter Stroud. He's
Speaker 2: played with everybody from Don Henley, Sarah maclachlin, like just
Speaker 2: just the talent. So he's found his niche where he's
Speaker 2: like the sixth man on a lot of these artists.
Speaker 2: But he he is. But the one I would say
Speaker 2: first and foremost would be Driving and Crime. No if answer, but.
Speaker 1: Okay, So what was your situation growing up? What were
Speaker 1: your parents doing when you were growing up?
Speaker 2: Well, my dad was a minister. He was operatic trained
Speaker 2: and he was about to leave to live in Italy
Speaker 2: and sing opera and then him and God had a
Speaker 2: talk and he decided he was going into the ministry.
Speaker 2: So he became a minister of music and eventually became
Speaker 2: a minister. But he's a minister of music first, and
Speaker 2: my mom played piano in church and that's what I
Speaker 2: grew up in I knew nothing different and it was awesome.
Speaker 2: I mean they I had loved discipline, sports, you know,
Speaker 2: it was outside playing all the time. And I had
Speaker 2: their devotion. I had my devotion to them, like my
Speaker 2: childhood was great. We had no money, but that didn't
Speaker 2: That's why I always tell my wife money doesn't it.
Speaker 1: Okay, So your father had his own church cracked. And
Speaker 1: where was that church?
Speaker 2: Scottridge, Georgia, south of Atlanta, about twenty miles south of Atlanta.
Speaker 1: And how big a congregation was that?
Speaker 2: About three to four hundred.
Speaker 1: Okay, So you're the minister's son. So once you walk
Speaker 1: out the door, is that a good thing or bad thing?
Speaker 1: People make fun of you, people treat you special.
Speaker 2: Oh I didn't get treated special. I mean you know,
Speaker 2: when the principal of your high school is the deacon
Speaker 2: of the church, you're being watched. Twenty four to seven.
Speaker 2: I was scrutinized quite often. I mean I didn't mindn't
Speaker 2: I wouldn't do anything crazy. I mean, you know, when
Speaker 2: I was fourteen, when I decided I want to do music,
Speaker 2: was like that's all I cared about. I just did music.
Speaker 2: But now nobody ever made it was a small town.
Speaker 2: So it was like once again, I go back to
Speaker 2: like if you want to, if I could compare it
Speaker 2: to anything, it'd be like Mayberry, you know Andy Griffith show,
Speaker 2: Like it was just that everybody was a neighbor and
Speaker 2: it was just that simple. Everybody made mistakes, everybody did
Speaker 2: some wrong things here and there, but everybody were neighbors
Speaker 2: and cared for each other.
Speaker 1: So we live in this polarized era. You know, when
Speaker 1: I grew up, which is you know, kind of when
Speaker 1: you were born, you were a little later than from me,
Speaker 1: there was all this. You know, the South is rednecks
Speaker 1: below the Mace and Dixon line, you know. Then there's
Speaker 1: issues of the Confederate War. Now there's maga. What does
Speaker 1: the North not understand about the South?
Speaker 2: I don't know. It seems they're all moving down here now.
Speaker 2: I don't know. I just think that's just you know,
Speaker 2: folk lore for lack of a better term. You know,
Speaker 2: my wife's from Washington State and are there and I
Speaker 2: hate to use the word rednecks because if you understand
Speaker 2: what redneck means, it's actually the farmers that worked in
Speaker 2: the fields, that worked hard and fed people and they
Speaker 2: would get their next burn so it wasn't. So it's
Speaker 2: taken another turn, and I know what people mean by it.
Speaker 2: You can find hatred and bigotry and racism in any
Speaker 2: part of this country. Trust me, I've seen it in
Speaker 2: every part of this country. I've seen it more than
Speaker 2: I have in the South. It's one reason I've never
Speaker 2: left the South or Atlanta, because I love the diversity
Speaker 2: of Atlanta, and I wanted my children raised in diversity
Speaker 2: to understand that my children don't even know they're best
Speaker 2: friends are African Americans are ancient. It doesn't matter to
Speaker 2: that generation. And that's how I wanted to teach my children.
Speaker 2: And that's why I stayed in Atlanta because it offers that.
Speaker 2: And I don't know why the Northerners think that. I
Speaker 2: don't know why anybody thinks that, you know, there's good
Speaker 2: people here. I mean, I don't think everybody up in
Speaker 2: the Northeast is in the mob.
Speaker 1: Let's go one step deeper. There's a lot of news
Speaker 1: in Georgia having to do with Fanny Willis and stuff
Speaker 1: like that. Is there a big red blue divide? Is
Speaker 1: that something you feel or is that just something you
Speaker 1: read in the newspapers.
Speaker 2: I'm sure it's there. I personally haven't seen it. Now
Speaker 2: you can talk red and blue and have difference. The
Speaker 2: people I talk to that have different ideologies politically have conversations.
Speaker 2: They're not angry, they're just having conversations. So I think
Speaker 2: some of the stuff is what do you you know?
Speaker 2: I think they want it for TV, or they want
Speaker 2: it or maybe even for their individual selves. I don't know.
Speaker 2: I don't know those people. All I know is the
Speaker 2: people that are surround myself with. We differ even in
Speaker 2: the band. We differ politically, we differ religiously. We different ideology.
Speaker 2: To me, that makes up a society. And like I
Speaker 2: said earlier, not only do we like each other, we
Speaker 2: love each other, and just that's that's society. If we
Speaker 2: all thought the same way, we'd be a bunch of
Speaker 2: cows in the pasture waiting to get grazing and waiting
Speaker 2: to get slaughtered. You know, at least you're learning and
Speaker 2: taking and absorbing other people's thoughts. So I think it's
Speaker 2: I just think it's ratings or clicks, whatever the kids
Speaker 2: call it nowadays. I think it's for that.
Speaker 1: So if your wife from Washington State, how did you
Speaker 1: meet her?
Speaker 2: She her family moved to Atlanta, and I had a
Speaker 2: apartment that all the players on the Atlanta Falcons when
Speaker 2: they got hurt would just come stay at my house
Speaker 2: just because I was single and I had the nicest
Speaker 2: TV and had all the sports channels. Then they didn't
Speaker 2: want to spend money to go back for rehab. They
Speaker 2: get rehab in Atlanta. So one of the guys was
Speaker 2: on the University of Washington and he called me and
Speaker 2: said he was out. He said, hey, I got a
Speaker 2: friend coming over to get some Falcon tickets. I was like, okay.
Speaker 2: So I thought it was a dude, because their dudes
Speaker 2: would come in and out. Like I'm old school Southern
Speaker 2: door was always open, just come and go. And I
Speaker 2: opened the door. It was this beautiful woman and I'm
Speaker 2: sitting there in my boxers because I just thought it
Speaker 2: would dude, and and she was on the date and
Speaker 2: I was like, here, my name's Ed. And then we
Speaker 2: went and did a European tour for three weeks and
Speaker 2: it was the last face of a woman I truly saw.
Speaker 2: And I got back and called her and said, do
Speaker 2: you remember me? My name's Ed. She has no pop culture,
Speaker 2: She had no idea who I was and I said,
Speaker 2: RIM's in town tonight. I'd love to take you to
Speaker 2: the show. I said, I just got back in from
Speaker 2: Europe and she says no. She made every excuse and
Speaker 2: I was like, I don't know what got into me.
Speaker 2: I just said, you know what, I'm going to sit
Speaker 2: here at this bar and when you get here, I'm waiting.
Speaker 2: And she showed up three hours later, three hours later,
Speaker 2: and we went to RIM and we've never been separated
Speaker 2: since twenty years.
Speaker 1: Now. You've been married before, right, I was, yeah?
Speaker 2: Correct?
Speaker 1: And how long were you married and how long between
Speaker 1: the two wives?
Speaker 2: Uh? I think the first marriage was four years and
Speaker 2: I think it was four years in between the divorce.
Speaker 1: So why did you get divorced?
Speaker 2: You know, some people, some people do things they probably
Speaker 2: wish they didn't do. So I'm not going to get
Speaker 2: into that because that's not worth it. You know. I
Speaker 2: will tell you the one beautiful thing. She is a
Speaker 2: wonderful mother and I'm proud to have a child with her,
Speaker 2: So I'm just gonna leave it at that.
Speaker 1: Okay, did you meet her before or after you had success?
Speaker 2: Right at it?
Speaker 1: And did the level of your success affect the relationship?
Speaker 2: Yes? Yeah, definitely, And once again, she was young. I
Speaker 2: was naive, and my attention was spent a lot on
Speaker 2: Collective Soul because that's everything was just happening so fast.
Speaker 2: So you know, we should have probably dated two more years,
Speaker 2: would have probably helped the relationship instead of going to
Speaker 2: Vegas and have Elvis marry you. So, you know, hindsight's
Speaker 2: twenty twenty. They say, I wish I had twenty twenty vision.
Speaker 1: Now you have a child with this woman.
Speaker 2: Crack. He's twenty five and what is he up to?
Speaker 2: He's bartending right now. You know, he's one of those
Speaker 2: twenty five year olds trying to figure it out. He
Speaker 2: loves music, he loves going to concerts, and I'm like,
Speaker 2: we'll figure something out. Brother, He'll get there.
Speaker 1: Okay. How do you know all the Atlanta Falcons that
Speaker 1: they're coming crashing at your place?
Speaker 2: Well, because one of the guys lived across the I
Speaker 2: it was dearing my divorce, so it was after he
Speaker 2: lived across at the apartment and he was on the
Speaker 2: Falcons and they were and they were all it was
Speaker 2: all the drafted kids, the ones trying to make the
Speaker 2: team if they got drafted, or the ones trying to
Speaker 2: make the team. So they would just come over there
Speaker 2: and he'd go go Toad's house. He's got the beer,
Speaker 2: he's got the TV. So they would just crash at
Speaker 2: my house. I don't know. It was just like I said,
Speaker 2: I have an open door policy.
Speaker 1: Well, are you the type of person who makes friends
Speaker 1: everywhere you go?
Speaker 2: Yes? My wife says that's a fault of mine, and
Speaker 2: I'm like, I kind of like it. Like I guess
Speaker 2: just being a preacher's kid, I watch my father and
Speaker 2: mother do it my whole life, and I'm like, if
Speaker 2: somebody's over there sitting eating alone, I'm going to go
Speaker 2: talk to them, like, hey, everything cool, you know. I mean,
Speaker 2: they can show me away, but it just makes me uncomfortable.
Speaker 2: I want everybody to know somebody in the world loves them.
Speaker 1: So your father was a minister. Are you still a believer?
Speaker 2: I am. I have no problem with that. I don't
Speaker 2: believe in how he believed that way. I do believe,
Speaker 2: Like I meditate every day. I'm actually going to meditate
Speaker 2: with monks this weekend. I believe in spirituality, and I
Speaker 2: know that's a cop out, but I do believe the
Speaker 2: teachings of Jesus because it's really kind of simple and clean.
Speaker 2: You know. I don't really have to do anything except
Speaker 2: please forgive me, and I mess up a lot, so
Speaker 2: it's kind of an easy cop out there too.
Speaker 1: Okay, just when we talk about these.
Speaker 2: My wife, my wife. My wife's Jewish, so it doesn't
Speaker 2: you know. So it's and I don't. I don't care
Speaker 2: as long as you're a good person.
Speaker 1: But you've been in the rock and roll lifestyle. Have
Speaker 1: you overdone it with drugs or alcohol?
Speaker 2: Never? Never?
Speaker 1: Not your personality.
Speaker 2: No. I didn't drink till I was thirty, and it
Speaker 2: was first time we were on tour, and I was
Speaker 2: just bored. Never smoked till I was fifty. I was
Speaker 2: like bored, Like no, I just never wasn't a part
Speaker 2: of my gig. Man to be, as my wife would
Speaker 2: like to say, Ed likes to be in control.
Speaker 1: I understand that completely, but just go one step further.
Speaker 1: Are you controlling?
Speaker 2: No? No, I want to be in control of my temple,
Speaker 2: in control of my at my surroundings, but not controlling
Speaker 2: of any No. No, no. I love people that do
Speaker 2: their own gig. I learned from that. I actually get
Speaker 2: inspired by it. Like that's cool, that's people would go, man,
Speaker 2: they're crazy. I'm like, no, they're not. They're they're living
Speaker 2: the dream right now. Man, that's cool.
Speaker 1: Okay, So how many kids in the family.
Speaker 2: And my family you have three siblings, two younger brothers
Speaker 2: and a younger sister.
Speaker 1: Okay, so you're the oldest I am, and usually all
Speaker 1: the hopes and dreams are in the oldest. Did you
Speaker 1: feel that?
Speaker 2: Not all? Not at all? Now, I'm telling you, man,
Speaker 2: my childhood it was crazy back in the day. People go,
Speaker 2: must have been horrible growing up with it as your
Speaker 2: dad being a preacher. I was like, now, it's kind
Speaker 2: of cool. You know. First concert he took me to
Speaker 2: is Johnny Cash. Then he took me to see the Liberachi,
Speaker 2: and he took me to see the Kinks, took me
Speaker 2: to see Elton John was like, no, that sounds kind
Speaker 2: of good to me. That's kind of cool.
Speaker 1: Okay, your father was trained operatically. How do you end
Speaker 1: up being a fan of the Kinks and going to
Speaker 1: see the Kinks?
Speaker 2: Don't ask me. I wish I could ask him now.
Speaker 2: I should have asked him that a while back. He's
Speaker 2: been he's been good. Lord said hey to him about
Speaker 2: twenty years ago. I wish like The Kinks is the
Speaker 2: one that throws me off. I understand Liberaci because his mother,
Speaker 2: my grandmother, loved Liberachi. So something there, you know, like
Speaker 2: going to see your mom's favorite artist, Elton, I could
Speaker 2: get Johnny Cash, I could get the Kinks. That one
Speaker 2: goes by me a little bit. I'm like, I'm glad
Speaker 2: he did because I always tell people they're like, you know,
Speaker 2: my brother's and the band Dean, and people go to
Speaker 2: y'all fight and you know, like the Davies brothers, and
Speaker 2: I was like, you know what I always tell my
Speaker 2: brother Dean. I was like, dude, I love you, but
Speaker 2: I would never break a guitar over your head because
Speaker 2: I have so much more love for my guitars than
Speaker 2: I do you. It's just an inside joke.
Speaker 1: Okay, so your father's taken to these shows. Is that
Speaker 1: what infects you with music and makes you decide to
Speaker 1: become a musician.
Speaker 2: What made me want to become I wanted to be
Speaker 2: become a songwriter. What happened was because we had records.
Speaker 2: I mean, I grew up basically on gospel and hymnal music,
Speaker 2: and Elvis was in the house and they'd be Jerry
Speaker 2: Lee Lewis and Frank and Dean Martin. But it was
Speaker 2: when I saved up enough of my allowance to go
Speaker 2: by the first record, And to this day I could
Speaker 2: remember it was at Richway and the what do you
Speaker 2: used to call them where they put all the records.
Speaker 2: Who's the front and center had Olivia Newton, John, John
Speaker 2: Denver and Elton John. And I didn't know any of
Speaker 2: these artists, and I would made no mistake by going
Speaker 2: with either one. But I was like, man, that guy
Speaker 2: dress is really cool. I'm gonna I'm getting Elton John
Speaker 2: and it's literally when I put the needle down, I
Speaker 2: was like, I want to write like Elton John and
Speaker 2: Bernie Tale. I just I can't. Nobody ever will. But
Speaker 2: that's what inspired me. Literally your song. When I put
Speaker 2: it on, I was like, oh my gosh, like it's
Speaker 2: the flow and the beauty of it. I could still
Speaker 2: remember when I put it on the record player and
Speaker 2: then you know, listening to the greatest hits and I
Speaker 2: just would wear that record out. I probably have over
Speaker 2: the year. I probably over the years, I probably about
Speaker 2: twenty of those records, because like I said, I'm a
Speaker 2: vinyl guy, so I love Vinyl. I will wear that
Speaker 2: record out just inspires me. It makes me feel youthful
Speaker 2: and brings inspiration.
Speaker 1: Okay, so when did you start playing an instrument.
Speaker 2: Well, my first instrument I was eight years old and
Speaker 2: I joined the elementary band and I played clarinet, which
Speaker 2: I always like to say is the gateway to rock
Speaker 2: and roll. The claire is the gateway to rock and roll. Okay,
Speaker 2: so I played clarinet. I actually told my parents I
Speaker 2: wanted to play the coronet, and they thought I said clarinet.
Speaker 2: So my Southern slang must have been worse than it
Speaker 2: is now. So anyway, brought to clarinet, and you know,
Speaker 2: at that age the only I was the only boy
Speaker 2: in that section because it's the clarinet, the flutes, and
Speaker 2: there's it. And to come to learn later in life.
Speaker 2: I was like, this is kind of cool. I'm with
Speaker 2: all the checks man. And then I took a class
Speaker 2: and started learning saxophone. And I was fourteen when I
Speaker 2: learned to play the guitar. That's when I started really
Speaker 2: wanted to learn. I wanted to learn to write songs,
Speaker 2: and then piano just came naturally because it was just
Speaker 2: in the house. I just I don't know. I used
Speaker 2: to know that. I don't know. I didn't know theory
Speaker 2: on piano. I would just watch my mom play warm
Speaker 2: up for her and dad's gig every Sunday morning, and
Speaker 2: I would just watch her fingers and I'm like, oh,
Speaker 2: that's cool. So I would just get up there and
Speaker 2: try to figure out what she was doing.
Speaker 1: Okay, so you took Clearnett lessons? Did you ever take
Speaker 1: guitar lessons?
Speaker 2: I did not. I went to Berkeley College of Music,
Speaker 2: and when I got there, they told me that I
Speaker 2: was holding the pick wrong and I was like, oh boy,
Speaker 2: this ain't gonna go well. So no, I just a
Speaker 2: friend of mine gave me his guitar. I was in
Speaker 2: the lunch room. I was fourteen, and I said I
Speaker 2: think I want to be a songwriter, and sitting with
Speaker 2: all the jocks, and this one guy goes, I got
Speaker 2: a guitar, and I got a guitar book, and so
Speaker 2: he gave me one of his Kmart guitars. I don't
Speaker 2: know people out there remember Kmart, but it was cheap.
Speaker 2: And he gave in Elvis Presley book that showed how
Speaker 2: to play the chords in the Eagles book showed you
Speaker 2: how to play the chords. So I just sat there,
Speaker 2: you know, bloody fingers, so I could figure it out.
Speaker 1: And did you play in bands in high school?
Speaker 2: No, it wasn't stop. Rich was a very small place.
Speaker 2: I did play in a Dixieland band, which was my
Speaker 2: first paying gig. I played banjo. I did learn to
Speaker 2: play the banjo for a second. But no, it was
Speaker 2: such a small town and it was more based on
Speaker 2: football and baseball and basketball and things like that. And
Speaker 2: I was the only one that even played an instrument.
Speaker 2: So that's one reason I went to Berkeley. I just
Speaker 2: wanted to surround myself with other musicians.
Speaker 1: Okay, so you're gonna graduate from high school, how do
Speaker 1: you know about Berkeley? And how do you decide to
Speaker 1: go there?
Speaker 2: I became a just I couldn't get enough of music.
Speaker 2: So it started with the cars because they were from
Speaker 2: Boston and a couple of them had gone to a
Speaker 2: place called Berkeley. And I was listening to Steely Dan
Speaker 2: too and saw somehow back then you didn't have the internet.
Speaker 2: I would get these cream or whatever those magazines were called,
Speaker 2: you know, and they would go it went to Berkeley College.
Speaker 2: Music was huh, so you know, just send an application
Speaker 2: and back then you mailed everything. I would and they
Speaker 2: would send me information. And then I just I decided
Speaker 2: I'd needed to get out of a small town. And
Speaker 2: at the time, I thought it was going to be
Speaker 2: a really good guitarist, and you know, I wanted to
Speaker 2: write songs. But when I got up there, you know,
Speaker 2: kind of got my ass handed to me. You go
Speaker 2: into a rehearsal room and you see these cats just wail,
Speaker 2: and I'm say, okay, I'm gonna try songwriting.
Speaker 1: Now, okay, if you come from a poor family, how'd
Speaker 1: you pay for Berkeley?
Speaker 2: A student loan of which I did payback. My uncle
Speaker 2: was a banker. So I went to my uncle really
Speaker 2: correct and got a loan.
Speaker 1: Do you remember how much it was.
Speaker 2: For twenty four hundred bucks?
Speaker 1: So how long did you last at Berkeley?
Speaker 2: Six months. He wasn't gonna teach me. He wasn't gonna
Speaker 2: teach me what I wanted to learn. I mean, I
Speaker 2: tell this story quite often. I was walking, you know,
Speaker 2: I was a naive Southern boy from a small town.
Speaker 2: I would just walk up to people and say hey.
Speaker 2: And I met this mailman. He was doing his route
Speaker 2: and I said hey. He's like, hey, you know I
Speaker 2: looked interesting at that time. I had orange hair and
Speaker 2: all over the place. He goes, you're in a band.
Speaker 2: He was like, no, I'm going to Berkeley. He goes,
Speaker 2: I graduated from there. I was like, really, what are
Speaker 2: you being a mailman for? He goes, well, if you
Speaker 2: graduate there, you're really just going to be a teacher.
Speaker 2: I was like really, he goes, well, what do you
Speaker 2: want to do? I said, I want to write songs.
Speaker 2: He said, you need to quit and go explore life
Speaker 2: and learn about life and find it within yourself. They're
Speaker 2: not going to teach you how to write his song
Speaker 2: in there, And so I always say I had a
Speaker 2: life lesson from Cliff Claven from Cheers.
Speaker 1: Okay, in the six months you were there, did you
Speaker 1: feel alienated? Did you fit in? Did you learn anything?
Speaker 2: I learned more about life. Yeah, fit in. I had
Speaker 2: that personality where I was I'm not afraid to meet
Speaker 2: people and do things. Yeah. I mean I got a
Speaker 2: girlfriend there, like I was. I was happening baby. Plus,
Speaker 2: you know, you know what the funny thing is, the
Speaker 2: accent gets the girl at that age, They're like, you
Speaker 2: sound funny. So I mean, we hitched tight to go
Speaker 2: see Billy Joel, Like, we did all kinds of fun
Speaker 2: stuff that you can't do nowadays. But yeah, I fit in.
Speaker 2: I had a great time. But I learned more about life,
Speaker 2: and I did learn structure of chord progressions, Like they
Speaker 2: were playing chords I'd never thought of or heard of.
Speaker 2: So I was just watching. I'd go in rehearsal spaces
Speaker 2: and play with these guitar players and I was like,
Speaker 2: what cord is that hold on? And so it was
Speaker 2: learning a different I don't know tonality or timber of
Speaker 2: like different chords.
Speaker 1: How hard was it to decide to drop out? And
Speaker 1: what did your parents say about it?
Speaker 2: Oh? Once again, they've been nothing but supportive. They were like,
Speaker 2: get home, get a job, which I did immediately work
Speaker 2: for the hospital. And then there was a studio. Well
Speaker 2: I just stacked. I mean once again, I went and
Speaker 2: put all the drugs and all the surgery rooms. And
Speaker 2: then there was a studio and where I grew up, Stockbridge, Georgia,
Speaker 2: wil Turp and a bass player's father owned. So my
Speaker 2: dad was like, if you really want to do music,
Speaker 2: just go down there and start learning. So I would
Speaker 2: go down there and I would sit in the back
Speaker 2: of the room for three months. I would ask clean
Speaker 2: the toilets, made coffee, did everything I could, just sat
Speaker 2: there for three months, and the head engineer finally got
Speaker 2: a job in Nashville. So Bill asked me if I
Speaker 2: wanted to be the engineer, and I was like, I'd
Speaker 2: love to, And so that's how it kind of started
Speaker 2: there with the whole once again, it gave me the
Speaker 2: opportunity to not only learn how to engineer, but produced
Speaker 2: and learned mike placements temperament. And then when there was downtime,
Speaker 2: that's where I would sit there and do my own songs.
Speaker 1: So what kind of stuff were you recording?
Speaker 2: Horrible? Oh? For me, mine was horrible.
Speaker 1: But no, no, no, no, no, no, you're working in this studio,
Speaker 1: in this studio, what kind of talent came in through
Speaker 1: the doors?
Speaker 2: The first session I ever had was Rue Paul. I
Speaker 2: can't make that up. You followed my first session and
Speaker 2: he and I became buddies and we just and he
Speaker 2: allowed me to like he would sing a melody or something.
Speaker 2: So it started me like learning to play and producing.
Speaker 2: And then it was an intermediate studio. I'll use that
Speaker 2: word so I would get a lot of bluegrass app
Speaker 2: was starting to happen, to get wrap, I get heavy melt,
Speaker 2: I get everything, and it was just fun. It's up
Speaker 2: and coming bands are sometimes people that just wanted to
Speaker 2: hear their voice on tape, and I just got you know,
Speaker 2: It's like a cornucopia of music, and I just absorbed it.
Speaker 2: I loved every bit of it.
Speaker 1: So did they teach you how to engineer? How'd you learn?
Speaker 1: I mean, engineering is not that simple to be any
Speaker 1: good edit anywhere.
Speaker 2: I watched for three months. I just sat there and watched,
Speaker 2: and then at the end of the night Scott Scott
Speaker 2: Long was the engineer. I was like, I would ask
Speaker 2: him question. He was so patient. He goes, yep, you
Speaker 2: do you know? This is when you plug things in?
Speaker 2: And I was like, I got you, I got you,
Speaker 2: got you. So it was really just determination. And then
Speaker 2: I literally would sit there from eight o'clock at night
Speaker 2: to two o'clock in the morning and then bit the
Speaker 2: hospital at seven to five and just rent and repeat
Speaker 2: for three months.
Speaker 1: And then after those three months, you gave up the
Speaker 1: hospital work full time at the studio.
Speaker 2: I did, but the studio didn't pay that much so
Speaker 2: every once in a while, I have to go out
Speaker 2: and you know, scratch around. And I was a janitor
Speaker 2: for a second at my dad's church. I put up siding,
Speaker 2: I did roofing, landscaping, just just anything to pay the bills.
Speaker 2: You know. At that point, I never got myself and dad.
Speaker 2: I've always lived within my means, so and it didn't
Speaker 2: cost much to live back then. I'd go to Arby's
Speaker 2: and get five or five dollars and that'd last me
Speaker 2: all week. You know.
Speaker 1: And where were you living?
Speaker 2: Midtown girlfriends and a lot of time, I just lived
Speaker 2: at the studio. I just sleep under the board.
Speaker 1: So you're working, you're recording your own music, So how
Speaker 1: does that evolve?
Speaker 2: Slowly? Because I had nobody else to help depend on,
Speaker 2: so I was recording everything myself, which is it's good.
Speaker 2: It's a blessing and a curse. It's a blessing that
Speaker 2: you learn how it's done and the curses that you get.
Speaker 2: You mentioned it earlier over control, So when I started
Speaker 2: having bands, I was like, wait, They're like back it up, dude,
Speaker 2: you know, because I'd just done it myself for so long.
Speaker 2: But I wouldn't change anything. I got to learn somehow,
Speaker 2: I guess, and that's how I learned, just sitting along
Speaker 2: by myself in a studio.
Speaker 1: Okay, how long between dropping out of Berkeley and the
Speaker 1: success of Shine?
Speaker 2: Eleven years?
Speaker 1: So you have confidence you're going to make it. What's
Speaker 1: going through your head?
Speaker 2: No, I just love music. I just loved it. I
Speaker 2: didn't expect to have a grandiose lifestyle. That's not what
Speaker 2: I wanted. I wanted to play music. I just wanted
Speaker 2: to learn music. I wanted to write songs. It was
Speaker 2: never about I mean, the blessings that I have now
Speaker 2: was not the end all of end all. It was like,
Speaker 2: I just wanted to play music. And the week before
Speaker 2: we got signed, I was already signed up to play
Speaker 2: on a cruise ship to play guitar. So I was
Speaker 2: just I just wanted to play music.
Speaker 1: Okay, So you're working in the studio in the eleven years,
Speaker 1: At what point do you start getting a band and
Speaker 1: working out?
Speaker 2: There were so many bands, Like people would come in
Speaker 2: and they'd go, oh, I like you want to join
Speaker 2: a band. I'll go yeah, and then then they would
Speaker 2: fizzle out and fizzle out, And I had a band
Speaker 2: A couple of times we did okay, but you know,
Speaker 2: you get I call it, you know, the old Southern
Speaker 2: saying long in the two about twenty four to twenty five,
Speaker 2: all your friends are like, whoa, I got to get
Speaker 2: a life here, this is this isn't not. Everybody's like
Speaker 2: you ed. Nobody just wants to sleep under a board
Speaker 2: to you know, eat Army's every day. And so they
Speaker 2: really did started wanting, you know, things in life that
Speaker 2: they wanted, families and that, but that didn't matter to me.
Speaker 2: All I wanted to do was music. So I call it,
Speaker 2: you know, twenty four to twenty five, it's fourth down
Speaker 2: and punt or you go for it. All my friends punted,
Speaker 2: and I just kept going for it. So it was
Speaker 2: like just vicious. Whoever was next?
Speaker 1: Okay? Shine was a demo? How many demos did you
Speaker 1: have to cut before you got to Shine? Uh?
Speaker 2: Probably one hundred at least.
Speaker 1: Did you think any of the previous ones were going
Speaker 1: to be the turning point? Did you think Shine was
Speaker 1: going to be the turning point? Or it was just
Speaker 1: an endless you know, as you say, laundry cycle.
Speaker 2: I thought there were many of them before that. I
Speaker 2: start I clicked when I was to me I clicked
Speaker 2: twenty five or twenty six when I felt like I
Speaker 2: got the writing thing down. I was just a slow learner,
Speaker 2: but I was working and then songs just started flowing,
Speaker 2: and I thought there were a lot lot more that
Speaker 2: I thought would have started a career or me as
Speaker 2: a songwriter. And then when I did Shine, I did
Speaker 2: like it. I mean, but I didn't. I didn't hear
Speaker 2: it is what it became. There was a song called
Speaker 2: good Night, Good Guy that I thought was the song.
Speaker 2: And my brother is the one that took it to
Speaker 2: album eighty eight in Georgia State, and I said, just
Speaker 2: take take these. It was a cassette. You have one
Speaker 2: song on one one another said tell them play good
Speaker 2: Night good Guy. So he took it when he went
Speaker 2: to class and they played Shine. And then here we
Speaker 2: are today, you know, thirty one years later.
Speaker 1: Basically, okay, you were in a band where you had
Speaker 1: a woman who was the lead singer before that. What
Speaker 1: happened with that band?
Speaker 2: Well, we would play as much as it was called
Speaker 2: Marching two step. And her name is Michelle ray Kaplinger.
Speaker 2: She's like my sister. We're still tight thicke as these.
Speaker 2: I think she's head of like the southeast of Grammys. Now.
Speaker 2: We uh, we didn't know what we're doing. We were
Speaker 2: just trying to find something. We're trying to find a
Speaker 2: sound because she kind of came. She was in bands
Speaker 2: prior to this new wave, and I was kind of
Speaker 2: like wanting the new wave, but music was changing. I
Speaker 2: was trying to find a sound that fit what I
Speaker 2: was comfortable with writing. So, you know it, I think
Speaker 2: it lasted a year or two, I don't know, but
Speaker 2: we had a lot of fun and it was just
Speaker 2: a learning experience. You know, I call it pre production.
Speaker 2: You know, both bands get signed and they go into
Speaker 2: pre production. They spend six months just learning to write,
Speaker 2: recording and all of that. That's kind of what we
Speaker 2: were doing. We were out on the road doing that band.
Speaker 1: Okay, when you give your brother that cassette for the
Speaker 1: college radio station, is there a band?
Speaker 2: That's honestly a good question that I do not know.
Speaker 2: I cannot answer that because I don't think there was
Speaker 2: a band. I don't I don't know. That's a great question.
Speaker 2: I've never thought about that because it was something that
Speaker 2: there was Eddie, then there was a rollin, there was
Speaker 2: brothers and brides, that's interesting. I gotta check that out.
Speaker 2: That's a great question.
Speaker 1: Well, who played on that demo?
Speaker 2: Me? It's all me. The original lead guitarist played the
Speaker 2: lead guitar, but everything else is me because I was
Speaker 2: the only one in the studio.
Speaker 1: Okay, So you give that cassette to your brother?
Speaker 2: Correct?
Speaker 1: Had you you know, in this eleven year period, were
Speaker 1: you working it? Were you giving cassettes to other people,
Speaker 1: whether it be radio stations, managers trying to make it?
Speaker 2: Oh? Yeah, I sent it to everybody. I would just
Speaker 2: once again it was now you got me thinking about
Speaker 2: the name. I'm wondering if I had the name before
Speaker 2: because we weren't a band. Then interesting. Oh, I would
Speaker 2: give cassettes to anybody. I gave one to rick O Kasich.
Speaker 2: I'm sure he went one hundred yards on the road,
Speaker 2: rolled the wind down through it out. I gave one
Speaker 2: to Sting. I mean I would sneak backstage everywhere. I
Speaker 2: went to New York and snuck into every record label
Speaker 2: at twenty years old, just lying my way through it
Speaker 2: and sit there and they listen to it and it
Speaker 2: was god awful, but they you know, I got in there.
Speaker 2: I was learning to hustle a little bit.
Speaker 1: And did you ever have any bites before Shine broke through.
Speaker 2: Zero? And I had so many? You know, back then
Speaker 2: they would write you letters back to say we pass
Speaker 2: you know the letters. And I had some nasty ones
Speaker 2: a couple of times, and I will not in their
Speaker 2: names that said please do not ever send me. One
Speaker 2: said please do not ever send me another piece of
Speaker 2: your music. You're a horrible songwriter and a horrible singer.
Speaker 1: Well wasn't that disheartening?
Speaker 2: Hell No, I went and I proved them wrong.
Speaker 1: Now, okay, so you give this cassette to your brother.
Speaker 1: The radio station flips it over, they start playing Shine.
Speaker 1: How does it build from there?
Speaker 2: It became their most requested song, and it was I
Speaker 2: think he took it to like an November or something.
Speaker 2: And then they called me because I had my probably
Speaker 2: just set of Roland and now I have my phone
Speaker 2: number on there, they called me and said that the
Speaker 2: number one requested a song they want to play at
Speaker 2: their Christmas party. And it was a big deal. Then
Speaker 2: it sold out and it's like a thousand people. And
Speaker 2: my brother and what became Collected Soul. We're in a
Speaker 2: frat band that played at Georgia State and Georgia Tech.
Speaker 2: So I called him and I said, hey, guys, just learn
Speaker 2: I got three songs. Let's learn three originals and we
Speaker 2: can do the frat stuff. Y'all can do that. I'll
Speaker 2: walk off stage or whatever. They're like cool. And we
Speaker 2: got up there and we played one song. Then we
Speaker 2: played Shine and place went nuts and I just said, hey,
Speaker 2: let's play that again. I think we played Seine six
Speaker 2: times that night. I mean, people couldn't get enough of it.
Speaker 2: I've never seen anything like it, and I've been to
Speaker 2: a lot of shows.
Speaker 1: What was the experience like from your viewpoint? Being on stage?
Speaker 2: Confused? Seriously confused? I was like, what is going on?
Speaker 2: And I mean every time we played it, they just
Speaker 2: got nuts. And I was like, good gosh, what's going on?
Speaker 1: Okay, you play that gig? The college radio station is
Speaker 1: playing it. What's the next block in the building.
Speaker 2: Oh w j R in Orlando started playing it?
Speaker 1: And how did they get it?
Speaker 2: I sent it to everybody. I sent a CD to
Speaker 2: cassettes to everybody, uh, manager of producers, like, I literally
Speaker 2: had a list back of the day. There was a
Speaker 2: book of people in the industry. I sent it to attorneys.
Speaker 2: I sent it to business managers. I just sat there
Speaker 2: and make cassettes all day long and just would ship
Speaker 2: them out again.
Speaker 1: With the store with the story that it was number
Speaker 1: one on this college radio station.
Speaker 2: Nope, just send them the song. Just send them the cassette.
Speaker 1: And now a station in Orlando starts playing it serendipitously
Speaker 1: with no push correct and called it just to go back.
Speaker 1: There's only two songs on this cassette. Correct, Okay, so
Speaker 1: Orlando starts.
Speaker 2: To play there might have been five, might have been five,
Speaker 2: or it might have been the whole record, just because
Speaker 2: it might I think. I take it back. I think
Speaker 2: it was the whole record. I just sit the whole
Speaker 2: cassette kitt kaboodle because I wanted to showcase that I
Speaker 2: could write different types of songs. Because the first song
Speaker 2: is to me, very not coordinated. First album, I should
Speaker 2: say it's not very coordated because you can see I'm
Speaker 2: trying to write country a little bit here there, Americana, rock, grunge, whatever. Anyway,
Speaker 2: So if they start playing and they call and they
Speaker 2: want us to come down and do a show, and
Speaker 2: it's like, so I get the guys again, and we
Speaker 2: rehearsed a little bit. This time we had a thirty
Speaker 2: minute run we could do and you know, if had
Speaker 2: do covers, they could do it. And we get down
Speaker 2: there and I know if we were driving down there
Speaker 2: and they go, you know, they're top five at five.
Speaker 2: You know, it was like STP, Pearl, Jam Kings X,
Speaker 2: Nirvana and number one some band called Collective Soul out
Speaker 2: of Atlanta, Georgia. And we all looked at each other,
Speaker 2: going what is going on? Most requested, so I pulled
Speaker 2: the van over once again. My parents van pulled the
Speaker 2: van over. I was like, we all just sat there.
Speaker 2: We got out and just looked like what is going on?
Speaker 2: Especially for me, they're exciting because they're twenty years old.
Speaker 2: The rest of the guys in the band, they're like,
Speaker 2: this is awesome.
Speaker 3: You know.
Speaker 2: I was like, what is going on? So we show
Speaker 2: up and it was like the Beatles showed up. We
Speaker 2: were like, what is going on? It was just very confusing,
Speaker 2: and then that night we got signed somebody from Jason
Speaker 2: Flom from Atlantic Records, flew down and it was done.
Speaker 1: Okay, once again you ship the CDs and did nothing else,
Speaker 1: and radio just started to play it from an unsolicitously.
Speaker 2: I would call them. I personally would call them, and
Speaker 2: then because I remember, I called a place in New
Speaker 2: Mexico because I had once again there was a book
Speaker 2: that I had. So I would sit there on the
Speaker 2: phone and call and say, Hey, I'm a Collective soul
Speaker 2: and I was wondering if you could play that, and
Speaker 2: he goes, We've been playing it. He goes, I can't
Speaker 2: believe you called, because you know that's the radio department's
Speaker 2: job to do, you know, radio promo. I was like, yeah,
Speaker 2: he goes, we do an interview. I was like, sure,
Speaker 2: I don't know what I'm gonna talk about, you know,
Speaker 2: like I didn't know what was going on, and uh.
Speaker 2: And I called one station was based out of a
Speaker 2: pool haul somewhere, and the guy just flipped out. He's like, dude,
Speaker 2: this is the best song ever. Hey, We're gonna do
Speaker 2: an interview in five four three two one. I'm like, hey,
Speaker 2: I'm ed.
Speaker 1: Okay. So when Jason Flomm's person comes down.
Speaker 2: No, Jason came down.
Speaker 1: Jason came down. Was he the first person from a
Speaker 1: record company who showed interest?
Speaker 2: No. We actually had four calls in one day, and
Speaker 2: my manager said we're going with Atlantic with Jason Flohm
Speaker 2: because they called first. I was like, that doesn't make
Speaker 2: good business news. Say called first, does it? He goes, Nope,
Speaker 2: it's done. I was like, okay. So Jason came down
Speaker 2: and they flew us to New York, you know the
Speaker 2: old rock and roll story, you know, wined and dined us,
Speaker 2: and I was just like, I didn't know what was
Speaker 2: going on. It was just like over the moon and
Speaker 2: it was. But it was funny because I got to
Speaker 2: tell Ergon that I had snuck into his office to
Speaker 2: meet him at that time, about fifteen years earlier, to
Speaker 2: play him something. And he was very kind and listened
Speaker 2: to it and told me to keep working, which I
Speaker 2: thought was kind of cool. Cycle in life or whatever.
Speaker 2: He liked it. He was a good man.
Speaker 1: Okay, so you play this gig in Orlando, you make
Speaker 1: a deal with Atlantic. How long after that did they
Speaker 1: push the button? Unshine?
Speaker 2: Oh, it was pushed. We already charted on our own.
Speaker 2: We didn't know what was going like. Literally, we were
Speaker 2: top forty in rock radio for sure before Atlantic signed.
Speaker 2: And then we he thought, Okay, it's not a band,
Speaker 2: it's a batch of demos that I had been doing
Speaker 2: over the last five seven years. We thought we were
Speaker 2: going to go make a record and they were like, nope,
Speaker 2: y'all are out. And the first thing they do is
Speaker 2: they put us at Woodstock ninety four, and then a
Speaker 2: week after that, we're on tour with Errol Smith and
Speaker 2: we're like, I mean literally, I think we did three
Speaker 2: shows before Woodstock, which was in front of god knows
Speaker 2: how many people, and then a week later we're out
Speaker 2: with Erol Smith. We're like, what is going on? It
Speaker 2: was just that fast?
Speaker 1: So what was it like playing Woodstock ninety four?
Speaker 2: Loved it, every minute of it. Everybody that was there
Speaker 2: was great. Everybody the night we played like Sheryl Crow Live,
Speaker 2: everybody was new and they, you know, were just to
Speaker 2: surprise what was going on with their life and their
Speaker 2: success we were. So it was kind of a therapy
Speaker 2: moment for some of these bands. Together. We were like, man,
Speaker 2: can you what what is? This is great, but like,
Speaker 2: how did this happen? You know? A month ago, I'm
Speaker 2: in my parents' basement rehearsing, and now I'm sitting here
Speaker 2: with Sheryl cru and Live and Blues Travelers. I'm like,
Speaker 2: what is going on?
Speaker 1: And at what point did they make the video?
Speaker 2: The week after we signed, We just did it, and
Speaker 2: we did it in Atlanta. I was like, there's some
Speaker 2: train tracks and a worn out building over here, so
Speaker 2: they were like okay, and you didn't have to back
Speaker 2: then in Atlanta. You didn't have to pay for permits
Speaker 2: or anything like that, so it was cheap.
Speaker 1: So by time you take the stage at Woodstock ninety four,
Speaker 1: is MTV play in the video?
Speaker 2: Yes? And it was our I think it was number
Speaker 2: one at that point.
Speaker 1: So you're backstage with all these happening people. Do they
Speaker 1: recognize you? Do they know who you are? No?
Speaker 2: No, because they were as busy as we were. I
Speaker 2: wouldn't have you know, they were just out early and
Speaker 2: we were, you know, they had records out earlier. But
Speaker 2: now actually we were following Kings acts because we're huge fans.
Speaker 2: And finally they turned around. Doug turned around and says,
Speaker 2: what do y'all want? And we're like, we're just fans, man,
Speaker 2: we just want to say and they were so sweet,
Speaker 2: but we were just naive. We didn't know what was
Speaker 2: going on.
Speaker 1: And then what was the tour with Aerosmith?
Speaker 2: Like it was great? It was once again we're just
Speaker 2: trying to get our feet on land. It was everything
Speaker 2: was happening so fast. But they were extremely nice and
Speaker 2: extremely just cordial. I mean, we stayed out of the way.
Speaker 2: I think we were just so scared of them because
Speaker 2: we didn't know how this works. You know, We've never
Speaker 2: been on a arena tour and never been on an
Speaker 2: arena stage, and all of a sudden, here we are.
Speaker 2: So we kind of just stayed out of their way.
Speaker 2: But they were extremely cordial and nice.
Speaker 1: So how how long after at Lenox signed you do
Speaker 1: you start thinking about the second record and when do
Speaker 1: you start making that?
Speaker 2: We started immediately because once again we felt like that
Speaker 2: wasn't a true representation of what we weren't event I mean,
Speaker 2: we were just learning whatever we could. So I would
Speaker 2: write during the day and during sound checks we would
Speaker 2: play it, learn it, play it that night. Some of
Speaker 2: the lyrics would be done, some wouldn't be done, and
Speaker 2: then any day off we had we would go into
Speaker 2: the studio. So it was recorded all over the place,
Speaker 2: kind of just haphazardly wherever we could find a studio
Speaker 2: when we're off, and that's how we recorded. I mean,
Speaker 2: the second one came out eight months after the first
Speaker 2: one was released, and during that time we probably did
Speaker 2: at least one hundred and twenty shows and made a
Speaker 2: record in eight months.
Speaker 1: So how do you meet Matsroletk and how does he
Speaker 1: get involved?
Speaker 2: I knew Matt when I was at studio. His jazz
Speaker 2: band came in and I would record, and he and
Speaker 2: I just struck it up, like because he's such a
Speaker 2: pure talent and he loved music and wanted to be
Speaker 2: involved so in anything. And I don't know, it's just
Speaker 2: you know, you have those friendships, that connection, and our
Speaker 2: connection was we had the same type humor, We enjoyed
Speaker 2: hanging out with each other, and we loved music. He
Speaker 2: was very similar to me, like he couldn't absorb enough music.
Speaker 2: So he went off to the University of Miami and graduated.
Speaker 2: And during that time I kept working and I I
Speaker 2: just knew I would always work. I trusted Matt. I
Speaker 2: still do. I would love to work with him again.
Speaker 2: I just knew what he was capable of and his talent,
Speaker 2: and like I said, more importantly, I just trusted him
Speaker 2: and everything and in my vision of collectivesault, like I
Speaker 2: would say this, he goes, well, how does that work.
Speaker 2: I was like, I don't know, let's figure it out,
Speaker 2: let's go for it. So it was fun.
Speaker 1: Did you have any trouble convincing Atlantic to let you
Speaker 1: co produce the album with Matt?
Speaker 2: No, I mean basically, I just I just did everything.
Speaker 2: I mean, I'm the one that produced it. Just allowed
Speaker 2: Matt to co produce because I wanted him around, because
Speaker 2: I trusted him so much. No, they didn't care. They never.
Speaker 2: They never said a word. They never. They never even
Speaker 2: knew and made a record. To be honest with you,
Speaker 2: I just show up in New York and say, hey,
Speaker 2: we just made a record. They go, oh my god,
Speaker 2: we're going to make our second quarter. I was like,
Speaker 2: what are you talking.
Speaker 1: About, Let's go back to shine. Was that something you
Speaker 1: just got inspired on or was it something that you
Speaker 1: built over months or weeks or whatever.
Speaker 2: No, I was I was writing a lot. This is
Speaker 2: like nineteen eighty eight. I was writing a lot on droning.
Speaker 2: You know, he droned the A and play melodies underneath
Speaker 2: it and come home and see Mom and Dad and
Speaker 2: Deane was in the house and he was playing guitar
Speaker 2: and I didn't know he played guitar. I'm like, cool.
Speaker 2: So I grabbed There were guitars in the house all over,
Speaker 2: so I grabbed one and was like, check this out.
Speaker 2: And I was showing how different risks and drones, and
Speaker 2: he goes, oh, I like that one, you know. Don no, no, no,
Speaker 2: you know Sean Riff. I said, yeah, man, I don't
Speaker 2: have anything else. But I said, give me a second,
Speaker 2: let's see what I can figure out here. And so
Speaker 2: I just sat right there and wrote it right in
Speaker 2: front of him. And it was that simple.
Speaker 1: But you wrote it in nineteen eighty eight and it
Speaker 1: didn't come out till ninety ninety four.
Speaker 2: Mm hmm. Yeah. Like I said, there were there are
Speaker 2: a lot of songs I recorded and wrote before all
Speaker 2: this happened.
Speaker 1: Okay, So why did you put it on the cassette
Speaker 1: that you gave to your brother if it was a
Speaker 1: six year old song?
Speaker 2: Oh? Because I didn't record it till then I wrote it.
Speaker 2: But I just, oh, yeah, I had the idea. So
Speaker 2: I wrote it that night, and then when ground started hitting,
Speaker 2: I was like, well, I can make that kind of
Speaker 2: grungy sound and you know that no no, no, no, no
Speaker 2: no no no no no no huh.
Speaker 1: Okay. So in the follow up album. You know, you
Speaker 1: have two huge tracks, the World, I Know in December.
Speaker 1: How were those written?
Speaker 2: World? I know? I wrote when I was in New
Speaker 2: York impressing my ex wife. It's the first time she'd
Speaker 2: come out on the road, and I was like, you know,
Speaker 2: just trying to impress her. I said, I'm going to
Speaker 2: walk around New York for an hour, say if I
Speaker 2: can come up with some kind of visual what I
Speaker 2: want to write about. And back then New York hadn't
Speaker 2: been cleaned up yet, so you'd walk around and you
Speaker 2: see people in the cardboard homes and you'd see people
Speaker 2: and fur coats and limousines back then, not the big
Speaker 2: black SUVs. And I was like, well, I know, like
Speaker 2: the yen and yang of life. So I just went
Speaker 2: back in and sat right there and Strum didn't wrote
Speaker 2: it out. And then December is the only song that
Speaker 2: we ever disagreed as a band because I wrote it
Speaker 2: one morning before the guys came in. So I was
Speaker 2: listening to some XTC song and it was the same
Speaker 2: progression over and over, but it was so creative how
Speaker 2: they brought different melodies in. So I was like, I
Speaker 2: want to write a song like that. Intertwines different melodies,
Speaker 2: but the same chord progression the whole time, trying to
Speaker 2: challenge myself as a songwriter. And the only problem is
Speaker 2: when you play it for somebody, it's the four Court.
Speaker 2: If you don't hear the other melodies that are in there,
Speaker 2: it's four minutes of the same chord progression, and I'll
Speaker 2: never forget. The guys are like, that's the most boring
Speaker 2: shit I've ever heard in my life. I was like,
Speaker 2: hold on, hold on, there's other melodies in here. There's
Speaker 2: other melodies in here. They're like, we're not recording that.
Speaker 2: It was like, yes, we are. I hear it. I
Speaker 2: know it's gonna work. So that's the only song ever
Speaker 2: that they've ever like adamant, and I was at them.
Speaker 2: We've had disagreements on other songs. They will say, you know,
Speaker 2: it's not as strong as I think you can do it,
Speaker 2: and I'll go, I get that, and but this one
Speaker 2: was the only one where I put my foot down.
Speaker 2: I guess.
Speaker 1: Okay. So you have this song from nineteen eighty eight,
Speaker 1: it becomes a worldwide smash. Now you make another record,
Speaker 1: do you expect this level of success again? And when
Speaker 1: you have these you know, two successful tracks. Do you
Speaker 1: say to me and I'm God? Or what's going through
Speaker 1: your head?
Speaker 2: No? When we finished the record, once again, we were
Speaker 2: really set. We looked at each other and we're all like,
Speaker 2: you know, good job, you know, and now it's out
Speaker 2: of our hands at this point, but if it's left
Speaker 2: in ours. We were proud. It was a proud moment
Speaker 2: for us. I would be lying if I didn't. Yeah,
Speaker 2: we expected it to do well, We really did. We
Speaker 2: felt that confident and the songs and we felt that
Speaker 2: confident in the generation, the momentum that was going with
Speaker 2: us at that moment. So yeah, we saw no end
Speaker 2: in sight, which is a beautiful thing because we still
Speaker 2: don't thirty years later. We just don't.
Speaker 1: Okay, So you have this gigantic success as you continue
Speaker 1: to make records with Atlantic, you don't reach those peaks. Again,
Speaker 1: what's going through your head?
Speaker 2: Nothing? I thought they were great records, and you just
Speaker 2: you know, there was a point where I thought Atlantic
Speaker 2: wasn't paying attention to us, which they never did because
Speaker 2: who were self sufficient? You know, they, like I said,
Speaker 2: they never knew we made a record. No A and
Speaker 2: R person ever stepped in the studio nobody. We just
Speaker 2: went made records and we presented to them, so there
Speaker 2: was no cheerleading. And I get that now now I
Speaker 2: know how the whole thing works. There was nobody cheerleading
Speaker 2: for us. We just went and made records and somehow,
Speaker 2: knock on wood, people accepted the songs and they were successful.
Speaker 2: And once again you can get caught up in that
Speaker 2: rabbit hole to meh, we sold a million, why didn't
Speaker 2: we sell a million? One? Once again, to me, the
Speaker 2: success is when all five of us look at each
Speaker 2: other and go, that's that's pretty darn good, guys, that's great,
Speaker 2: let's let's go. So I don't. I don't put emphasis
Speaker 2: on numbers unless it comes to uh engineering, make sure
Speaker 2: the plane flies correctly or the lawn war doesn't fly
Speaker 2: off the handle or something like that. But like I
Speaker 2: can't when it comes to artistic things, it's you know, why,
Speaker 2: why why does a Picasso cost so much? I mean,
Speaker 2: I don't know. I used to say there's another artist
Speaker 2: that doesn't shouldn't be there, I mean, just because it
Speaker 2: puts the air somewhere different.
Speaker 1: To be fair to say that you believe on your
Speaker 1: later Atlantic records that there were songs that would have
Speaker 1: been more commercially successful if the label had worked harder
Speaker 1: on them.
Speaker 2: I mean literally, you got to the point they didn't
Speaker 2: even pay attention to us. There was just there was
Speaker 2: no effort whatsoever, which led to us wanting to become
Speaker 2: independent because I went up and spoke to him about
Speaker 2: that that issue. And this was during the time when
Speaker 2: Metallica and Napster were going at it, and I'll never
Speaker 2: forget I was talking to the president of Atlantic. I'll
Speaker 2: never forget this conversation. So I was like, he goes, no,
Speaker 2: he love you, We love you. I was like, well,
Speaker 2: you don't even have the CDs and stock when we
Speaker 2: go play these shows. We're doing these shows, y'all aren't
Speaker 2: filling the bins. I said, nobody's there to just say hey,
Speaker 2: you know, which is fine. You need your You need
Speaker 2: to know you're loved at some point or liked at least.
Speaker 2: We didn't get any of the above. But when I
Speaker 2: asked him about what's going on with this digital thing,
Speaker 2: you know, Napster and stuff, and he threw his hands
Speaker 2: in the air and he goes, ah, that's going to
Speaker 2: go away. I I literally excuse my self and called
Speaker 2: my attorney and said, I want off this record label
Speaker 2: now because that was That's that just showed where they
Speaker 2: just didn't. They just weren't paying attention. And I have
Speaker 2: no problem saying that they they were not paying attention
Speaker 2: at all.
Speaker 1: And did you consider trying to get a deal with
Speaker 1: another major label.
Speaker 2: No, because we had and the guys were really supportive.
Speaker 2: We had. We made a change in line up a
Speaker 2: couple of guys. I felt that we had a brand,
Speaker 2: which I'm very grateful to Atlantic for helping create. It
Speaker 2: wasn't as strong a brand as it should have been
Speaker 2: and could have been, and what we were striving for
Speaker 2: it to be. But we had a brand, and I
Speaker 2: was like, now, let's go take care of this and
Speaker 2: do it ourselves. So we became the first true band
Speaker 2: to get off label to go be independent when everybody
Speaker 2: thought we were nuts, which we could be. I don't know,
Speaker 2: I just it was just the right timing and the
Speaker 2: change in the music industry. You could see it coming
Speaker 2: to miles and miles away, but nobody in the music
Speaker 2: industry could see it coming. It was just weird.
Speaker 1: You talked about changes in the band. What caused the
Speaker 1: changes in the band?
Speaker 2: I'll leave it at this. When I signed with Atlantic,
Speaker 2: I'm the only went to sign, so they were and
Speaker 2: they were employees of mine, and I put a moral
Speaker 2: clause in there, so I'll just leave it that two
Speaker 2: of them did some moral things. That's as far as
Speaker 2: I'll go. And tried to help as much as it could,
Speaker 2: but that's where it landed.
Speaker 1: So is it a band of equals or is it
Speaker 1: really your band?
Speaker 2: I'm the songwriter and I am the leader, but it
Speaker 2: goes with I. If they don't like the song, you
Speaker 2: have to have a lead. If you don't have a leader,
Speaker 2: you're you're you're gonna fail. So a lot falls on me,
Speaker 2: but a lot falls on them too, and I expect
Speaker 2: a lot out of them. They expect me to write
Speaker 2: songs that they feel comfortable and then we can record,
Speaker 2: and I expect them to I call it they put
Speaker 2: their fairy dust on there. They just make a song
Speaker 2: just bigger, better and explode and be something that I
Speaker 2: could have never dreamed of on my own, but they
Speaker 2: make it this wonderful piece. So uh, there's I mean,
Speaker 2: there's no stalin over here. You know. We talk and
Speaker 2: we communicate as a group, but the final I do
Speaker 2: have to make the final decision. I mean, it's it's demoment.
Speaker 2: They're they're tough decisions that has to be made. But
Speaker 2: that's part of being a leader or the leader of
Speaker 2: whatever organization.
Speaker 1: Okay, needless to say, you've been to the mountaintop. Very
Speaker 1: few people have been to the mountaintop and the business
Speaker 1: has completely changed. But does that affect you, say, shit,
Speaker 1: I was in the mountaintop. I want to be in
Speaker 1: the mountaintop again. Or you've made peace with the fact
Speaker 1: that it's hard to get there and the game changes.
Speaker 1: What goes through your mind there?
Speaker 2: I don't know. I don't think about things like I said,
Speaker 2: I don't think about things like that. I think about
Speaker 2: the next song, and I think about the next show
Speaker 2: with my friends on stage and enjoying life with them.
Speaker 2: I just do I mean, and I don't think if
Speaker 2: we don't get whatever you define the mountaintop as, I'm
Speaker 2: happy as can be. And I don't think there's a
Speaker 2: reason we can't get to the mountaintop. I don't know
Speaker 2: what the mountaintop is to me. I am on the
Speaker 2: mountaintop right now.
Speaker 1: Okay, we're in this story. Do you part ways with
Speaker 1: the initial manager is he on all through Atlantic or.
Speaker 2: He ended up the gaining of the second one, the
Speaker 2: Collective Soul record the second one.
Speaker 1: So when you're done with Atlantic, do you ever get
Speaker 1: recording royalties? A lot of record coupies say, oh, you're
Speaker 1: still in the red. Oh yeah, but Atlantic paid recording
Speaker 1: royalties to you.
Speaker 2: Yeah. I was very you know, one good thing about
Speaker 2: being thirty and long in the tooth, I was very
Speaker 2: aware because I've watched so many bands come and go,
Speaker 2: like recording them and getting to know a lot of
Speaker 2: them in the Atlanta area. I knew a lot about
Speaker 2: the business still, So yeah, I was very that part
Speaker 2: of my life. I was not naive about.
Speaker 1: And the songs? Do you own the songs?
Speaker 2: I did? I owned everything and then I sold a
Speaker 2: percentage to a company three years ago, but I still
Speaker 2: own a percentage a lot.
Speaker 1: Of percentage in what company did send them to sell
Speaker 1: them to Round Hill? And what made you decide to
Speaker 1: sell that interest?
Speaker 2: Security for my family at my age, I felt, and
Speaker 2: it was it was an extremely good deal and it
Speaker 2: just it just brought security for me to know that
Speaker 2: my family if something ever happened like my family's okay,
Speaker 2: you know, want for me to go out and buy
Speaker 2: big house or bigger house, or more cars, or it
Speaker 2: was just security for my family.
Speaker 1: And what did you do with the money.
Speaker 2: It's in a trust for my family. I can't even touch.
Speaker 1: Okay. So if now it's three years later, three years later,
Speaker 1: you still feel good about your decision to sell.
Speaker 2: I did because once again I surrounded myself with people
Speaker 2: that know how to take care of me and do
Speaker 2: take care of me. And once again I can't touch it.
Speaker 2: And I live within my means. I came from absolutely nothing,
Speaker 2: and I can once again, if Aby's ever came back
Speaker 2: out with it five or five, I'm out there every day.
Speaker 2: I don't care. It's like money doesn't scare me. It
Speaker 2: just doesn't.
Speaker 1: Did you sell the recording royalties too? Or do you
Speaker 1: still oan those?
Speaker 2: Uh? Own those?
Speaker 1: Okay?
Speaker 2: So but I re recorded those. I had the right
Speaker 2: to re record them, So I re recorded all the hits, right,
Speaker 2: So I so the the hits of the nineties I
Speaker 2: re recorded and I own that.
Speaker 1: Okay. If you stop working tomorrow, is there enough income
Speaker 1: to make it all work? Or do you have to
Speaker 1: go on the road.
Speaker 2: I do not have to work another day. Neither do
Speaker 2: my children. So it's that that's there's a simple answer
Speaker 2: right there, right so then, but I want them to work.
Speaker 2: I don't want that to be a part of you know,
Speaker 2: my thing is I set it up for initiative. I
Speaker 2: need them, haven't, you know, to get out there and
Speaker 2: do their own gig.
Speaker 1: Now, in Collective Soul, you're the songwriter and there's a
Speaker 1: lot of income from being a songwriter, which generally speaking,
Speaker 1: the other members are not in your being. Does that
Speaker 1: cause any friction?
Speaker 2: It does not, and I think a lot of it
Speaker 2: has to do. I'm still ready to go out. We
Speaker 2: make good money touring and I love touring, so I
Speaker 2: don't I hadn't been brought up to me yet. I
Speaker 2: hope you're not causing any trouble over there, Ball.
Speaker 1: No, I'm not.
Speaker 2: So.
Speaker 1: I listened to your record okay, and I think it
Speaker 1: was let it flow, could have been not the same,
Speaker 1: And I said, all of a sudden, I'm looking at
Speaker 1: the speakers, I go, wait a second, this is my
Speaker 1: kind of music. I really dig this. What's the status
Speaker 1: of rock in the world today.
Speaker 2: I don't know. I honestly, I gotta be honest with you.
Speaker 2: The last three to five years I just kind of
Speaker 2: referred back to what brought me joy and happiness and
Speaker 2: what inspired me. I mean, I got all my records
Speaker 2: over here.
Speaker 3: I'll buy new records. I just I think I'm lazy.
Speaker 3: I don't want to hear anything else other than what
Speaker 3: I call them, the professors or the artists that help me,
Speaker 3: that brought me joy. It's just kind of where I
Speaker 3: am in life. I just I'm cool with listening to
Speaker 3: I'll look over here now. I got Elton R. M.
Speaker 2: Pink Floyd, I was George Michael a c DC, Bob
Speaker 2: Seer put Beach Boys, crowded house. But who, I mean,
Speaker 2: what else do you need? There's only so many times,
Speaker 2: so many minutes, hours in the day. I'm cool with
Speaker 2: what I grew up with.
Speaker 1: So you talk about vinyl. Do you have a good stereo?
Speaker 2: I did. I did it when it was over here.
Speaker 2: I got audio Technica. I like audio Technica, then some
Speaker 2: Yamaha Howard speakers in a sub. I have four in
Speaker 2: the house. So any room I go into I can
Speaker 2: play records.
Speaker 1: And where do you live now, I'm not looking for
Speaker 1: the address, but.
Speaker 2: It's Sandy Springs, Georgia. It's it's right outside of Atlanta,
Speaker 2: just a suburb of Atlanta.
Speaker 1: And when you're not listening or playing music or being
Speaker 1: on the road, what occupies your time?
Speaker 2: Family? You know, getting a boy to school, spending time
Speaker 2: with my wife. But as far as hobbies, I love golf.
Speaker 2: I mean, I very rarely have time to see friends.
Speaker 2: So golf is my fellowship with my buddies, and that's
Speaker 2: that's it. I mean, it's a pretty simple life I live.
Speaker 1: And are those buddies are those people you grew up with,
Speaker 1: people you met in the studio years? Who are the
Speaker 1: buddies you're playing golf with?
Speaker 2: Now? Two are from my childhood, but the other ones
Speaker 2: are all that I've met during just you know, growing
Speaker 2: up in life, different areas.
Speaker 1: And you go on the road. Do you go on
Speaker 1: the road during the summer? School's not on during the summer.
Speaker 1: Do you take your family on the road. Do they
Speaker 1: come out to visit you? What goes on there they do?
Speaker 2: This year, little man's in camp so much getting ready
Speaker 2: for going to high school. But my wife comes out,
Speaker 2: my mom comes out, bring my mom out for a week,
Speaker 2: just hang out. So yeah, like we're a very family.
Speaker 2: We're in the band. Other band members moms come out
Speaker 2: like we just it's like going to camp. We're silly boys.
Speaker 2: We love our life.
Speaker 1: You come across as so even tempered and happy. I mean,
Speaker 1: do you ever get angry, frustrated, depressed?
Speaker 2: Of course I do. I don't think I ever get depressed.
Speaker 2: I have. I get frustrated and angry, of course, but
Speaker 2: I don't think. I don't. I don't remember being depressed.
Speaker 2: I just don't like, I don't know. No, I don't
Speaker 2: get depressed, angry and frustrated. Of course, of course I get,
Speaker 2: and the anger is usually it myself for being a
Speaker 2: damn idiot. I get mad at myself more than I
Speaker 2: do anybody.
Speaker 1: Well, you know, it's really interesting because I certainly seen
Speaker 1: your image in videos and on album covers, but I
Speaker 1: had no idea what your personality was like and what
Speaker 1: you were like. I mean, you're really I can see
Speaker 1: why you're successful, and you're more even tempered certainly than
Speaker 1: I am.
Speaker 2: Now there's no way you get angry. There is no way.
Speaker 1: Oh man, I cover the spectrum of what I was
Speaker 1: asking you. That's what I You know, when I see
Speaker 1: someone like you, it's more even tempered and more warm whatever.
Speaker 1: Believe me, I notice that, and I evaluate myself and.
Speaker 2: It's hard for me when I have friends that do
Speaker 2: to get depressed because I don't understand that, you know.
Speaker 2: And I try to be as patient and I am
Speaker 2: patient with that, and you want to help them, but
Speaker 2: I don't. It's a that's a tough one for me.
Speaker 2: But it doesn't mean they're wrong. It's no right or wrong.
Speaker 2: It's just I don't want anybody to press I want
Speaker 2: us all to you know, get through this whatever this is,
Speaker 2: life chapter whatever, enjoying, enjoying whatever this gift is.
Speaker 1: So you would say you're generally optimistic.
Speaker 2: Whenever sent on.
Speaker 1: And on that node, folks, I'm going to leave you.
Speaker 1: I've been talking to ed Rowland, who's new band has
Speaker 1: a label here to Eternity, and it's really pretty good
Speaker 1: if you like rock music. You can see him on
Speaker 1: the road, both with Hoodie and Edwin McCain and Loan.
Speaker 1: So I want to thank you so much for taking
Speaker 1: this time to talk to my audience.
Speaker 2: Thank you so much. This was awesome. Thank you so much.
Speaker 1: No, really, it was really cool getting to know you.
Speaker 2: Where do I send the four hundred and fifty dollars
Speaker 2: check for therapy? To p O box.
Speaker 1: Okay, ed, I'm gonna leave it there all right, Rather
Speaker 1: until next time it's Bob left sets