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Speaker 1: Welcome, Welcome, Welcome back to the Bob Left SAIDs podcast.

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Speaker 1: My guest today is Ed Rulan of Collective soul Head.

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Speaker 1: Tell me about the new album.

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Speaker 2: Well, it's a double album. We'll start there when we

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Speaker 2: set out to make a single record, but we kind

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Speaker 2: of got inspired by where we were recording the record.

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Speaker 2: My brother who's in the band, lives in San Diego,

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Speaker 2: and I was like, we had the month of January

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Speaker 2: off in twenty twenty three, and I was like, man,

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Speaker 2: I got some songs. Let's get the band together make

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Speaker 2: another record. We already had one plan to go out

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Speaker 2: and he said, uh, well we've never recorded west of

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Speaker 2: the Mississippi. Why don't we record out here and near me?

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Speaker 2: And I about five or six years ago, had run

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Speaker 2: into or met, befriended the people that owned Elvis Presley's

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Speaker 2: estate in Palm Springs, two homes when he passed away.

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Speaker 2: Of course everybody knows Graceland, and then he on this

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Speaker 2: place in Palm Springs, which when he passed was just

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Speaker 2: left like Priscilla wanted nothing to do with it, Lisa

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Speaker 2: Marie wanted nothing to do with it. But he spent

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Speaker 2: his last Thanksgiving, his last Christmas, his last birthday, and

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Speaker 2: he last three recordings he did there in that house.

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Speaker 2: So I'd seen the home before and RCA acoustically treated

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Speaker 2: it for him to record there. So I called those

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Speaker 2: guys up, my friends, and I was like, Hey, can

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Speaker 2: we have Elvis's house for the month of January? And

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Speaker 2: they said, of course, yeah, whatever you want. You know,

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Speaker 2: there's no furniture, there's nothing in there. You know, the

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Speaker 2: water may run, it may not. You may have hot water,

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Speaker 2: you may not. So we were like, all right, we'll

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Speaker 2: take it though it's Elvis's house. So we go out

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Speaker 2: there and we put furniture in there because there's no furniture,

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Speaker 2: and just set up the studio in there and started recording.

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Speaker 2: And the funny thing when it went in to do,

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Speaker 2: like I said, a single record. The guys we're old school,

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Speaker 2: like Johnny. Our drummer sets his drums up and then

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Speaker 2: we circle horseshoe around him and I present them a

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Speaker 2: song if they like it. We kind of worked through

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Speaker 2: it for an hour to see the parts and the vibe,

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Speaker 2: what we're feeling, and then we do maybe three, no

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Speaker 2: more than five takes. We do five takes because I

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Speaker 2: count them. If it's five takes. It's like, we got

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Speaker 2: to come back to this. It's usually it's three takes.

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Speaker 2: So in four days we recorded twelve songs. And I

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Speaker 2: was like, well, we still got three weeks to go, guys,

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Speaker 2: why don't y'all just go enjoy golf, hiking, biking, go

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Speaker 2: to Joshua Tree. I don't care. Let me just see

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Speaker 2: if I could come up with some other songs. So

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Speaker 2: I stayed at Elvis's house for four days and I

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Speaker 2: went to what they called his party room where he

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Speaker 2: throw all his parties. And I'm a Vinyl guy. I

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Speaker 2: love Vinyl. So I had fifty of my heroes albums

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Speaker 2: that I knew I wanted to listen to. Shift out,

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Speaker 2: got a record player, and I just sat in Elvis's

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Speaker 2: party room dance, listen to my heroes, or as I

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Speaker 2: like to call him, my professor's teachers. And somehow came

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Speaker 2: up with ten more songs and they came back in

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Speaker 2: and there you have it, a double album.

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Speaker 1: Okay, how were you aware of this house?

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Speaker 2: I had met through a show a friend, my friend,

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Speaker 2: a guy named Michael Rogers. We called him Spike. It

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Speaker 2: was like, you know, we have this house in palm

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Speaker 2: springs in Elvis's house. He knew I was an Elvis fan.

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Speaker 2: I was like, that's crazy, and I said, I want

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Speaker 2: to come out. He goes anytime. So I came out,

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Speaker 2: and then him and Tim the other owner, were like,

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Speaker 2: we're thinking, what We're trying to figure out what to

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Speaker 2: do with this house because you don't want to lose

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Speaker 2: what it was because it's Elvis, but it was you know,

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Speaker 2: it's dated, beautiful piece of property. But they didn't want

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Speaker 2: to take away from where Elvis lived. You know, it

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Speaker 2: wasn't a tear down. They really wanted to try to

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Speaker 2: maintain and contain, sustain what they thought Elvis would have

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Speaker 2: been living in that time. So they ask if I

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Speaker 2: would be interested in doing like a a show, like

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Speaker 2: a YouTube show where artists would come in and they

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Speaker 2: would perform their new songs, and then they performed two

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Speaker 2: Elvis songs. So it started there, and then the pandemic happened,

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Speaker 2: and then it just kind of dissipated from there because

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Speaker 2: the whole universe dissipated for a second there. But we

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Speaker 2: still kept in touch, and I just like I said,

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Speaker 2: I just made the call to him and was like, hey,

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Speaker 2: you still got that Elvis house anything going on, So

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Speaker 2: it was really just luck of the draw. And it's

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Speaker 2: actually cool to think that I am the only man

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Speaker 2: besides Elvis Presley to sleep in his bedroom as we know.

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Speaker 1: Of Okay, what about recording equipment.

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Speaker 2: I always I grew up as an engineer recording in

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Speaker 2: the studios. I've always had recording gear and I had

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Speaker 2: I wrote it down. With today's technology, we use what's

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Speaker 2: called Apollo, so I have a half rack, I have

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Speaker 2: all these digital mics, and literally I just loaded to

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Speaker 2: U haul and had my production fern drive from Atlanta

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Speaker 2: to Palm Springs with the U Haul and my SUV

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Speaker 2: and we just put it in Lisa Maurice. The control

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Speaker 2: room was in Lisa Marie's bedroom. Engineer producer Sean slept

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Speaker 2: in Priscilla, and I slept in Elvis's bedroom and the

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Speaker 2: rest of the guys. I rented a house that was

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Speaker 2: Burt Lancaster's house, which is where Here to Eternity came

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Speaker 2: from because of the big movie that him and Frank

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Speaker 2: Sinatra from Here to Eternity was a big movie for them.

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Speaker 2: So I was like, so the title came really easy.

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Speaker 2: I was like, here to attorney, the we're having fun

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Speaker 2: and it was that simple. Like with today's technology, it's

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Speaker 2: it's pack it up and go.

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Speaker 1: Okay, you're in Atlanta. You know, people want to go

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Speaker 1: to warmer weather. It's pretty warm in Georgia where they

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Speaker 1: go to Florida. Have you ever been to Palm Springs before?

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Speaker 2: Many times the first manager I had, we went to

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Speaker 2: la to see if I could get a We were

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Speaker 2: looking for an attorney because that was the first thing,

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Speaker 2: and try to shop my songs for a publishing deal

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Speaker 2: because I didn't have a band. I just wanted a

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Speaker 2: publishing deal. And he woke me up one morning and said,

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Speaker 2: we're going to Palm Springs. So we went there and

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Speaker 2: we went on hikes, and that was my first experience

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Speaker 2: with Palm Springs, but I had been there many times

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Speaker 2: prior to that. Our old tour manager, who was our

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Speaker 2: tour manager for thirteen fourteen years, moved out there, so

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Speaker 2: I would just go spend you know, long weekends with him,

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Speaker 2: and I just fell in love with it. I love

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Speaker 2: the history, the vibe. The heat doesn't bother me. Like

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Speaker 2: you said, I'm from Atlanta, heat does not bother me. Actually,

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Speaker 2: I'd rather have dry heat than the humidity that we

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Speaker 2: have here. But because I could play thirty six holes

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Speaker 2: of golf and dry heat, I can't do it in humidity.

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Speaker 2: And I just fell in love with the culture. I

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Speaker 2: love that it's non judgmental. I mean, it's just anything goes.

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Speaker 2: And I mean, if I had mine to do, but

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Speaker 2: I have a family and two boys, and I would

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Speaker 2: love to live there. I just love. And there's so

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Speaker 2: many other artists out there that live there now, musicians

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Speaker 2: and artists. I just I just find it's funny. I

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Speaker 2: only second home I ever had was in Arizona, and

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Speaker 2: I fell in love with it because I love the

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Speaker 2: living desert. I guess just because living in Georgia, where

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Speaker 2: you feel like you're living in a shrub, you know,

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Speaker 2: cut a little shrub here and put a house. I

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Speaker 2: just yeah, I'm a spiritual cat, and I kind of

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Speaker 2: just fell in love the spirituality of living deserts Vegas.

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Speaker 2: Vegas is not a living desert. It's it's living, all right,

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Speaker 2: but it's not a you know, ecosystem living like I love,

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Speaker 2: like Palm Springs and Phoenix, Scottsdale, things like that. So

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Speaker 2: I just I just fell in love with it. My

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Speaker 2: wife tells me all the time. She's like, man, I

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Speaker 2: hope I don't get run over. If I do, I

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Speaker 2: know where you're gonna end up, Palm Springs.

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Speaker 1: I was like, you're right, And do you find the

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Speaker 1: environment inspirational creatively?

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Speaker 2: One hundred percent? That's why we only we only recorded.

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Speaker 2: I think we've only done two. This is our twelfth

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Speaker 2: recording studio album, and I think we've done too maybe

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Speaker 2: three in proper studios. We love homes. We like once again,

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Speaker 2: we're Southern boys and we're very family. Everybody grew up

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Speaker 2: with each other and knows each other, and we like

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Speaker 2: the environment that a home sets. There is no clock,

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Speaker 2: you're not ticking. You don't have to be there at ten.

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Speaker 2: You could. You could wake up at eight, have a

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Speaker 2: cup of coffee and be inspired. And also like that

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Speaker 2: you're a part of the community. It's something different. If

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Speaker 2: you're in a studio, you're not part of a community

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Speaker 2: because you feel like you have to be in that

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Speaker 2: room with no windows or anything like that. When you're

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Speaker 2: in a house, you got windows. You see life moving,

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Speaker 2: you see kids, you see everybody walking, hiking, whatever they're doing.

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Speaker 2: So it's for us and I'm not saying that's the

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Speaker 2: right way to do it, or it works for every band,

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Speaker 2: but for us, we love that we were a strange

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Speaker 2: rock and roll band. We don't. We not only like

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Speaker 2: each other, we love each other and we love each

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Speaker 2: other's company. So to me, when we go to these destinations,

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Speaker 2: and I'll use it in that term, it kind of

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Speaker 2: brings in the vibrations from the community and it kind

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Speaker 2: of inspires us. And you know, I'm old school. I

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Speaker 2: do like the history of the Stones and Zeppelin, you know,

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Speaker 2: renting castles or getting in you know, mix you know,

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Speaker 2: South of France house and just recording making it work.

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Speaker 2: It wasn't as much about the acoustic as it was

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Speaker 2: about the spirit of what they were doing. So that's

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Speaker 2: that's kind of where our gig is.

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Speaker 1: Okay, you mentioned thirty six, so you know a round

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Speaker 1: and a half of golf. Are you a good golfer?

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Speaker 1: Do you play a lot of golf?

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Speaker 2: I try to. I would love to. The first time

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Speaker 2: I ever played golf we were touring with Van Halen

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Speaker 2: and Eddie van Halen came on the bus and he said,

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Speaker 2: we're playing golf tomorrow, cigarette hanging out and I was like,

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Speaker 2: you're Eddie Van Halen will do whatever you want to do.

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Speaker 2: So I got up and he said, one of the

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Speaker 2: coolest things ever. He goes, I believe you're gonna have

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Speaker 2: a long career. He said. I really like what you do.

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Speaker 2: I love your personality or your spirit, he goes, and

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Speaker 2: I'll tell you something right now. I'm gonna give you

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Speaker 2: some advice. Every hotel room looks the same. In his words,

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Speaker 2: He's like, I have a shitter, a bed, a TV,

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Speaker 2: a telephone, and he says, you end up at the bar.

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Speaker 2: He says, what you need to do is get out,

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Speaker 2: you play golf, bike or something. But I want to

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Speaker 2: take you to play golf. See if you fall in

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Speaker 2: love with it. So my first round of golf was

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Speaker 2: with Eddie van at Woodlands in Houston, Texas.

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Speaker 1: And how often do you play? Now?

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Speaker 2: As much as I can. I'm playing tomorrow morning. I

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Speaker 2: just did. And I get to announce this. I do

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Speaker 2: a lot of stuff for Saint Jude. I go to

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Speaker 2: the Warmer Burger and the Ram and I just came

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Speaker 2: back and they just asked me to host the one

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Speaker 2: in Naples, Florida this year. So it's my golf tournament

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Speaker 2: man for Saint Jude. What a great cause, great place.

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Speaker 2: So yeah. And the other cool thing about golf, My

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Speaker 2: wife is so cool. When we got married, I was

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Speaker 2: really into it and I bought her a set of

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Speaker 2: clubs and she said, no, take them back. That's boytime,

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Speaker 2: that's your boytime. And I'm like, all right. I started

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Speaker 2: taking it too seriously, and then I realized, man, is

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Speaker 2: this is just fellowship. You know, it's you know, I've

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Speaker 2: met some of the coolest people on the planet. I'm

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Speaker 2: the worst golfer that's played the greatest courses on the planet.

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Speaker 2: But hey, I love it. It's just so much fun.

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Speaker 1: Okay, let's go back to the album. Needless to say,

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Speaker 1: the music business on the recording end, it's very different.

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Speaker 1: When you had your initial hits in the nineties, it's

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Speaker 1: hard to reach everybody. So for someone who's had international hits,

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Speaker 1: do you have the same motivation.

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Speaker 2: We've always had the same motivation, and that is for

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Speaker 2: us to be happy with what we created. Is if

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Speaker 2: you can't be happy with what you've done, you can't

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Speaker 2: expect anybody else to. We've never been one to chase

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Speaker 2: hit songs anything like that. We literally look at each

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Speaker 2: other at the end of the session of the song,

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Speaker 2: we're like, everybody call and we're like and usually we're

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Speaker 2: all high five in each other, going, man, we got

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Speaker 2: lucky again. Or however we do it, however we make

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Speaker 2: it happen, And that's that's how we approach it. I

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Speaker 2: think you can get caught up in that craziness, and

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Speaker 2: we did for a second. You know, you sell a

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Speaker 2: million albums and then you go, why didn't we sell

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Speaker 2: a million in one? You know, you get caught up

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Speaker 2: in that rabbit hole. You're going to lose perspective real quick. So,

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Speaker 2: but with the songs and the records, we've always been grounded,

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Speaker 2: if that makes sense, Like it's it's about the song.

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Speaker 2: We're not like, oh this is this is a hit? Now?

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Speaker 2: Who knows what a hit is? And if you think

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Speaker 2: you do, why didn't you do it when you were

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Speaker 2: fourteen fifteen, sixteen? Nobody knows. It's just a timing and place.

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Speaker 2: But once again, the main, the cornerstone of all of

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Speaker 2: it is how you feel as a band and are

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Speaker 2: you happy? Do you feel fulfilled with what you just did?

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Speaker 2: And if you can feel that, nobody can take that

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Speaker 2: away from you. It doesn't mean everybody's gonna like it,

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Speaker 2: and that's cool. But if you're fulfilled with it, you win.

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Speaker 1: So you make a record in today's change marketplace, what

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Speaker 1: are your expectations?

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Speaker 2: I don't know. That's a good question. Let me think

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Speaker 2: of you know, my expectation is that we still present

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Speaker 2: ourselves musically artistically, and then to honestly go play live.

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Speaker 2: We love playing live. That's that's our favorite thing to

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Speaker 2: do as a band. We're like some bad frat fraternity.

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Speaker 2: Like we love being around each other. I mean we

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Speaker 2: high five, hug each other, you know, make pranks on

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Speaker 2: each other and kid with each other. But it does

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Speaker 2: start with the song. But then once that's done, it's

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Speaker 2: it's all about just getting on the road. Man.

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Speaker 1: Okay. Now the group paid for the record, right, correct,

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Speaker 1: So when you start, do you have in mind how

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Speaker 1: much money you want to spend, Because it's your money.

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Speaker 2: We keep it within a budget. But I will be honest.

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Speaker 2: When the Elvis thing came up, I was like, boys,

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Speaker 2: we're gonna have We're just gonna have fun. There was

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Speaker 2: no limit to be and nobody's crazy, nobody's doing anything stupid,

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Speaker 2: you know. I was like, this is a once in

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Speaker 2: a lifetime thing, and we knew it was gonna be

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Speaker 2: our thirtieth record. We didn't know it was going to

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Speaker 2: be a double album. Then when we decided it was

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Speaker 2: to be a double album and we were so inspired

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Speaker 2: being there, I was like, you know what, go get

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Speaker 2: a nice steak dinner, you know, get you a nice

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Speaker 2: bottle of wine. Let's enjoy and absorb this moment. We've

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Speaker 2: earned it and the guys in the band have earned it.

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Speaker 2: And that one was a little expensive. But you know,

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Speaker 2: I'm actually as this morning, just rented a place in

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Speaker 2: the mountains in Tennessee, a cabin where we're going to

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Speaker 2: do our next record in October. But I keep it

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Speaker 2: on a budget. You know, I got to it. I mean,

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Speaker 2: you can spend everything. I got two boys I got

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Speaker 2: to put through college.

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Speaker 1: Come on now, Okay, so the record is done. You're

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Speaker 1: the record company. Getting the record on digital services is

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Speaker 1: not that difficult. What do you do for promotion in marketing?

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Speaker 1: Since you know you're your own record company.

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Speaker 2: I call a man called Fred Kraschell. Fred Kroschell worked

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Speaker 2: at Maverick Records and met him twenty I think twenty

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Speaker 2: one years ago when we first went independent, and that

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Speaker 2: is that is. It's it's his job. He's gig and

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Speaker 2: he knows. If if I could tell you, I can

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Speaker 2: tell you how many people I've met that has said

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Speaker 2: a negative thing about Fred Krischell, that would be zero.

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Speaker 2: He's the most well liked, well respected man in the

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Speaker 2: industry and one of, if not the hardest working man.

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Speaker 2: I call him sometimes and forget I'm East coast, he's

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Speaker 2: West coast, but he's up. He's like, Eddie, what's up?

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Speaker 2: What we doing today? Like so it You know, one

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Speaker 2: of the smartest things I've learned to do in my

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Speaker 2: life is to be the dumbest man in the room.

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Speaker 2: And Fred is a smart man in that. So he

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Speaker 2: teaches me. But also I can trust him and I

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Speaker 2: have the and he has the freedom, and he makes

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Speaker 2: it happens. He's done them all. He's just a great

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Speaker 2: He wants to again. It's nice to be able to

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Speaker 2: work with people. You know, you got to think about Fred.

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Speaker 2: He was part of two of the top ten selling

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Speaker 2: albums of all time, a Linus More sets Jagged Littlepill

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Speaker 2: and Michael Jackson's Thriller. And for me to have the

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Speaker 2: knowledge that he has to just share with me and

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Speaker 2: work with me is amazing. So I'm just blessed to

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Speaker 2: know the cat from a personal standpoint, forget the business side.

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Speaker 2: He's a fun cat.

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Speaker 1: Okay, so you go on the road, how much of

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Speaker 1: the new album are you going to play?

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Speaker 2: It depends on the set times that we have. We're

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Speaker 2: going out with Hoodie, so we get fifty minutes, so

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Speaker 2: we do the first two songs or new songs, because

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Speaker 2: that's not the pee break area I call it. So

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Speaker 2: they don't know that they're new. They're just excited that

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Speaker 2: there's music going on, so it kind of sneak to

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Speaker 2: in there, and then we'll do some hits and we'll

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Speaker 2: throw one more in there in a fifty minute set.

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Speaker 2: But when we get out and do our own shows, well,

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Speaker 2: I don't want to do over five. I do five,

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Speaker 2: you know, And it's tough to pick and choose, especially

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Speaker 2: when you just did twenty, but you do. I like

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Speaker 2: to do five. I think that's fair. It's fair to

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Speaker 2: the audience, you know, because they are there for the

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Speaker 2: songs that got us there on stage. So you don't

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Speaker 2: want to you want to stretch yourself too thin, if

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Speaker 2: that makes sense, But you do want to let them

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Speaker 2: know that you're still making music and songs are still

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Speaker 2: as good as they were before.

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Speaker 1: Do you have hardcore collective soul fans?

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Speaker 2: I guess so. I don't know. I'm not a social

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Speaker 2: media guy. I don't keep up with that kind of stuff.

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Speaker 2: I literally get up and watch sports, keep up with

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Speaker 2: the news a little bit. But I love just playing music.

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Speaker 2: I love playing the piano. I'll play the piano and

345
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Speaker 2: I try to write every day or just let something flow.

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Speaker 2: It doesn't mean it's good, bad, or and different. It

347
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Speaker 2: may be just a little idea that'll last, but it's

348
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Speaker 2: just an extension of who I am. I love and

349
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Speaker 2: I try to sing every day because it's a muscle.

350
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Speaker 2: You want to keep your voice going. So I don't

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Speaker 2: know much about I guess we do. People still show up,

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Speaker 2: and still people listen to what we're doing.

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Speaker 1: Well, how much you know, we've had the pandemic, But

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Speaker 1: generally speaking, how much does collective soul work.

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Speaker 2: We usually do seventy five shows a year, and then

356
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Speaker 2: I would say I'll do privates and then I'll do

357
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Speaker 2: charitable events. So for me, it's around ninety to one

358
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Speaker 2: hundred a year, so and that never changes. It's pretty

359
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Speaker 2: pretty consistent. You know, Charlie keeps us Charlie, Charlie our manager,

360
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Speaker 2: Charlie keeps us busy.

361
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Speaker 1: And what kind of buildings do you play?

362
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Speaker 2: It varies, you know, it could be a two thousand,

363
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Speaker 2: and then with Hoodie we're out in outdoor amphitheaters, so

364
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Speaker 2: that's eighteen thousand. But I don't I don't look at

365
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Speaker 2: an audience's success. Like when my wife and I go

366
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Speaker 2: on holiday and I walk by a bar and there's

367
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Speaker 2: a band in there playing. I'm like, she knows what

368
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Speaker 2: I'm about to do because I just love to play.

369
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Speaker 2: I was like, I need to work, wrote these new songs.

370
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Speaker 2: I'm gonna go in, so I'll go in and tip

371
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Speaker 2: the band one hundred bucks. I'm like, can I just

372
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Speaker 2: borrow a guitar? I just want to play, So I

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Speaker 2: play the new songs and then I'll play like you know,

374
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Speaker 2: people recognize December World or Shine something, and it never fails.

375
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Speaker 2: They go, god, you sound just like that guy. I'm like,

376
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Speaker 2: I said, by the way, I do look like that guy.

377
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Speaker 2: I am that guy, But I just love I just

378
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Speaker 2: like playing music. Man, It's just kind of my good.

379
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Speaker 1: Well, so do you ultimately tell him you are that

380
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Speaker 1: guy at.

381
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Speaker 2: The end of the night. Yeah, you know, because I don't.

382
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Speaker 2: I'm just trying to help the band out because I

383
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Speaker 2: would have been doing that if I could. I still

384
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Speaker 2: would love to do it. I enjoy that, and I

385
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Speaker 2: actually enjoy them not knowing who I am, so I

386
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Speaker 2: can work on my new songs without being judged. You know,

387
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Speaker 2: if they knew, they go all right, that one sucks,

388
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Speaker 2: you know, like just working on it on myself.

389
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Speaker 1: Okay. So if you go on the road, the level

390
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Speaker 1: you go on the road depends on how many tickets

391
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Speaker 1: you sell. So you were selling a million albums. Nobody

392
00:21:18,800 --> 00:21:22,840
Speaker 1: sells a million albums today. Has that changed the level

393
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Speaker 1: of travel and how do you feel about that?

394
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Speaker 3: Not?

395
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Speaker 2: For us, it hasn't. I mean, we were never one

396
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Speaker 2: of those band. We were never a stadium band or

397
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Speaker 2: arena band. We were kind of mid level. So we've

398
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Speaker 2: maintained that and Charlie, our manager, keep bringing him up,

399
00:21:39,200 --> 00:21:42,639
Speaker 2: but he's been absolutely wonderful in maintaining that and helping

400
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Speaker 2: hus grow yearly. Because when we first started, everybody knew

401
00:21:46,320 --> 00:21:48,720
Speaker 2: the songs. They didn't know the band they you know,

402
00:21:48,800 --> 00:21:51,760
Speaker 2: they they had no idea who sang the song. They

403
00:21:51,800 --> 00:21:54,280
Speaker 2: just love the songs, you know, because everything happened so

404
00:21:54,359 --> 00:21:57,440
Speaker 2: fast for us, So Charlie's been putting it together for us,

405
00:21:57,480 --> 00:22:00,479
Speaker 2: like people now getting oh collector saw go see him

406
00:22:00,480 --> 00:22:01,919
Speaker 2: and they see us play live and they love what

407
00:22:01,960 --> 00:22:04,600
Speaker 2: we do. They know we love what we do. So

408
00:22:04,640 --> 00:22:09,119
Speaker 2: it's maintained a real consistency, it really has over the years.

409
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Speaker 2: There's never been a there's never been a big drop

410
00:22:12,520 --> 00:22:16,360
Speaker 2: and there's never been a big peak. It's just maintained.

411
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Speaker 2: Man kind of like the Dude and Big Lebowski. We're

412
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Speaker 2: kind of like the rug that ties everything together.

413
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Speaker 1: So how long have you been with Charlie and how'd

414
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Speaker 1: you first connect with Charlie.

415
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Speaker 2: I met Charlie years ago being in Atlanta. Charlie used

416
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Speaker 2: to call when I had a band and he would

417
00:22:34,680 --> 00:22:36,639
Speaker 2: he had nobody to open up, you know, he's a

418
00:22:36,680 --> 00:22:39,440
Speaker 2: promoter and had nobody open up. He called me and go, Hey,

419
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Speaker 2: I'm not paying anything, but you want to open up

420
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Speaker 2: with this band. I was like, yeah, man, let's go.

421
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Speaker 2: And then I mean, I think I've known Charlie for

422
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Speaker 2: forty years I think now. And then when we were

423
00:22:52,240 --> 00:22:55,399
Speaker 2: in management and we had discussions with other managers, I

424
00:22:55,480 --> 00:22:57,000
Speaker 2: never forget to flow up to the buffalo. But we

425
00:22:57,040 --> 00:22:59,000
Speaker 2: didn't feel at the time. I didn't feel it at

426
00:22:59,000 --> 00:23:03,359
Speaker 2: that moment, and that was I don't know when, that

427
00:23:03,520 --> 00:23:07,480
Speaker 2: was twenty years ago, twenty five. And then eventually we

428
00:23:07,560 --> 00:23:10,080
Speaker 2: got to a position where and like I said, I've

429
00:23:10,119 --> 00:23:12,080
Speaker 2: known Charlie and I've seen what he's done with all

430
00:23:12,240 --> 00:23:14,720
Speaker 2: the bands he's managed, and I see his loyalty and

431
00:23:14,760 --> 00:23:18,200
Speaker 2: I've witnessed I should say I've witnessed his loyalty, of

432
00:23:18,320 --> 00:23:22,960
Speaker 2: which witnessed his hard work. And when we had to

433
00:23:22,960 --> 00:23:25,280
Speaker 2: make a change, I was like, you know, I went

434
00:23:25,320 --> 00:23:28,320
Speaker 2: to Charlie and it was that simple. It was, and

435
00:23:28,359 --> 00:23:32,800
Speaker 2: it's been nothing but great. You know, it's nice to

436
00:23:32,840 --> 00:23:37,159
Speaker 2: have a manager that is not afraid of you, and

437
00:23:37,200 --> 00:23:40,560
Speaker 2: it's nice to have a manager who's not afraid of

438
00:23:40,600 --> 00:23:44,119
Speaker 2: the artist. And we're not either one like, you know,

439
00:23:44,320 --> 00:23:47,840
Speaker 2: we can have disagreements, but we don't get mad at

440
00:23:47,840 --> 00:23:50,200
Speaker 2: each other. It's just like, what can we do? We're

441
00:23:50,280 --> 00:23:53,359
Speaker 2: both here to resolve. Like he's so good at that,

442
00:23:53,600 --> 00:23:57,520
Speaker 2: and it's been a blessing to have him.

443
00:23:57,560 --> 00:24:02,520
Speaker 1: You had a contract to with the previous manager. What

444
00:24:02,640 --> 00:24:04,960
Speaker 1: went on with the previous manager.

445
00:24:05,359 --> 00:24:10,920
Speaker 2: Well, we didn't get paid. That's about all I can say.

446
00:24:10,960 --> 00:24:15,399
Speaker 2: We didn't get paid, but we had to go to

447
00:24:16,480 --> 00:24:18,600
Speaker 2: court and all that. But all we got out of

448
00:24:18,640 --> 00:24:22,240
Speaker 2: it was I retained the name, and I retained the songs,

449
00:24:22,280 --> 00:24:25,600
Speaker 2: and I retained the right to continue on as Collective Soul,

450
00:24:25,680 --> 00:24:29,960
Speaker 2: which is, you know, once again, that's all I wanted

451
00:24:30,000 --> 00:24:33,960
Speaker 2: that moment in my life.

452
00:24:34,240 --> 00:24:36,000
Speaker 1: Did the guy just steal the money?

453
00:24:37,040 --> 00:24:39,760
Speaker 2: I can't really say that he's passed. He passed about

454
00:24:39,760 --> 00:24:42,840
Speaker 2: three years ago, but in the court rulings, we're really not,

455
00:24:43,000 --> 00:24:43,359
Speaker 2: you know.

456
00:24:46,560 --> 00:24:49,720
Speaker 1: Okay, but you know there have been bands like Bad

457
00:24:49,800 --> 00:24:53,920
Speaker 1: Finger where the guys have literally committed suicide when they

458
00:24:53,960 --> 00:24:57,000
Speaker 1: haven't gotten paid. So how did you cope with that?

459
00:24:58,640 --> 00:25:02,800
Speaker 2: Man? I go back to and people think I'm and

460
00:25:02,840 --> 00:25:06,359
Speaker 2: it's not. I go back to my parents. My parents

461
00:25:06,440 --> 00:25:12,280
Speaker 2: were such strong people, very supportive, and it really came

462
00:25:12,320 --> 00:25:15,399
Speaker 2: down to them, and not just me, but all the

463
00:25:15,440 --> 00:25:18,120
Speaker 2: other band members. We all grew up in the same community,

464
00:25:18,160 --> 00:25:21,600
Speaker 2: had the same kind of understanding of life and were

465
00:25:21,680 --> 00:25:25,000
Speaker 2: raised very similar. I think it came down to our

466
00:25:25,040 --> 00:25:28,200
Speaker 2: parents because there were there was times where I've never

467
00:25:28,240 --> 00:25:31,119
Speaker 2: taken my life, or there's time it's like, man, what

468
00:25:31,400 --> 00:25:33,520
Speaker 2: just happened, you know, all of a sudden, you shoot,

469
00:25:33,680 --> 00:25:36,080
Speaker 2: you shot out of a shotgun. Then you're a dead

470
00:25:36,080 --> 00:25:40,239
Speaker 2: bowling ball falling from the air. But it was it

471
00:25:40,280 --> 00:25:43,280
Speaker 2: was family. It was family, family strength.

472
00:25:44,600 --> 00:25:47,959
Speaker 1: Okay, you're going out with Edwin mccainn and Hoody. Do

473
00:25:48,000 --> 00:25:49,040
Speaker 1: you know those guys.

474
00:25:50,480 --> 00:25:52,719
Speaker 2: We've all known each other before, we all got signed,

475
00:25:53,200 --> 00:25:59,879
Speaker 2: so being in the Southeast, and it's like a fraturn

476
00:26:00,280 --> 00:26:02,440
Speaker 2: going back out, like we've known each other for over

477
00:26:02,480 --> 00:26:04,840
Speaker 2: thirty years now, and to be able to go out

478
00:26:04,880 --> 00:26:10,080
Speaker 2: and just hang with your buddies, like Edwin is one

479
00:26:10,080 --> 00:26:13,040
Speaker 2: of the funniest men on the planet. And the Hoodie Boys,

480
00:26:13,880 --> 00:26:16,159
Speaker 2: I hate to use the word, they're a hoop. They're fine,

481
00:26:16,280 --> 00:26:18,479
Speaker 2: you know, and it's just it's almost like you're in

482
00:26:18,520 --> 00:26:21,720
Speaker 2: college again. There's no egos, which is a great thing

483
00:26:21,760 --> 00:26:23,800
Speaker 2: to have when you're on tour with other bands. There's

484
00:26:23,840 --> 00:26:27,160
Speaker 2: no egos. Everybody supports each other and everybody wants each

485
00:26:27,160 --> 00:26:29,800
Speaker 2: other to succeed as we did when we first met

486
00:26:29,840 --> 00:26:32,680
Speaker 2: each other. We were so happy for you know, when

487
00:26:33,560 --> 00:26:37,560
Speaker 2: we got signed, Hoody and the boys were extremely happy,

488
00:26:37,600 --> 00:26:41,000
Speaker 2: and then we were for them. And then everyone gets

489
00:26:41,000 --> 00:26:43,560
Speaker 2: signed there, you know, it's just a family kind of vibe.

490
00:26:45,440 --> 00:26:48,960
Speaker 1: So, you know, Hoody really had a moment there in

491
00:26:48,960 --> 00:26:52,520
Speaker 1: the mid nineties. Did you expect that and what do

492
00:26:52,600 --> 00:26:53,399
Speaker 1: you think about that?

493
00:26:55,160 --> 00:26:59,199
Speaker 2: I don't think they expect Nobody expects that. And I

494
00:26:59,240 --> 00:27:04,240
Speaker 2: think they handle it great. I think, you know, to

495
00:27:04,960 --> 00:27:08,280
Speaker 2: you think we shot we shot up really quick. But

496
00:27:08,400 --> 00:27:12,080
Speaker 2: with Hoodie, they kind of they had a little swell

497
00:27:12,240 --> 00:27:16,040
Speaker 2: to it. So I mean, that's a lot to take in,

498
00:27:16,800 --> 00:27:21,440
Speaker 2: you know, what they had to go through, and they

499
00:27:21,520 --> 00:27:24,399
Speaker 2: handled it great. And they've been nothing but gentlemen. And

500
00:27:25,119 --> 00:27:27,240
Speaker 2: you know, and for Darius to go on to another

501
00:27:27,400 --> 00:27:35,080
Speaker 2: career like he did, I mean, it's pretty uh inspiring,

502
00:27:35,160 --> 00:27:37,280
Speaker 2: to be honest with you, That's the word I would

503
00:27:37,359 --> 00:27:41,240
Speaker 2: use for Hoodie and Edwin. Also, they're very inspiring artists

504
00:27:41,280 --> 00:27:42,560
Speaker 2: and friends.

505
00:27:43,160 --> 00:27:47,760
Speaker 1: Okay, you're in Atlanta, Okay, needless to say, they Allman

506
00:27:47,840 --> 00:27:52,080
Speaker 1: Brothers had a song called Hot Lanta. Al Cooper moved

507
00:27:52,080 --> 00:27:56,040
Speaker 1: to Atlanta signed the Leonard Skinnard but at Disley date,

508
00:27:57,240 --> 00:27:59,840
Speaker 1: Atlanta is an epicenter of hip hop.

509
00:28:00,640 --> 00:28:01,080
Speaker 2: Correct.

510
00:28:01,320 --> 00:28:04,960
Speaker 1: What's it like being a rock musician in Atlanta today?

511
00:28:06,800 --> 00:28:09,800
Speaker 2: You know, I don't get out as much as I

512
00:28:09,880 --> 00:28:14,879
Speaker 2: used to because you know, having children and wife, it

513
00:28:14,920 --> 00:28:16,800
Speaker 2: takes your time up when you are home, you want

514
00:28:16,800 --> 00:28:18,480
Speaker 2: to be with your family. But back in the day

515
00:28:19,160 --> 00:28:21,520
Speaker 2: when we were coming up, or when I was coming

516
00:28:21,560 --> 00:28:23,560
Speaker 2: up in the eighties and the early nineties, Atlanta it

517
00:28:23,600 --> 00:28:26,080
Speaker 2: was just a hotbed of rock and roll. It was great,

518
00:28:26,280 --> 00:28:31,560
Speaker 2: like it was incorporating Southern rock. Just I call it

519
00:28:31,640 --> 00:28:34,439
Speaker 2: keeping the traid on the wheel. You know, it was

520
00:28:34,480 --> 00:28:37,680
Speaker 2: so much fun. I don't see that anymore right now.

521
00:28:38,120 --> 00:28:41,240
Speaker 2: I just don't. Being honest, and once again, maybe there

522
00:28:41,840 --> 00:28:46,040
Speaker 2: I am sixty, so maybe I'm too old to recognize

523
00:28:46,080 --> 00:28:50,160
Speaker 2: where it is and who it is. But it doesn't

524
00:28:50,200 --> 00:28:52,400
Speaker 2: feel you know, I got a twenty five year old

525
00:28:52,400 --> 00:28:55,320
Speaker 2: sign and I just go like, where do the rock clubs? Like?

526
00:28:55,400 --> 00:28:59,080
Speaker 2: I just missed that stuff so much, not even playing it.

527
00:28:59,120 --> 00:29:01,160
Speaker 2: I just used to love to go to him, you know,

528
00:29:01,960 --> 00:29:06,600
Speaker 2: just the vibe of it all was, I don't know, man,

529
00:29:07,200 --> 00:29:09,080
Speaker 2: felt like you had a halo. When I walked out,

530
00:29:09,120 --> 00:29:10,720
Speaker 2: I was like, oh, yeah, I'm about to kick some

531
00:29:10,800 --> 00:29:12,800
Speaker 2: ass here now. Man. That just fired me up. They

532
00:29:12,840 --> 00:29:15,280
Speaker 2: would fire me up. I don't know where you find

533
00:29:15,280 --> 00:29:17,120
Speaker 2: that in Atlanta right now, to be honest with.

534
00:29:17,120 --> 00:29:22,160
Speaker 1: You, and who from Atlanta. Do you think deserve more

535
00:29:22,280 --> 00:29:25,200
Speaker 1: success than they got from your era?

536
00:29:26,680 --> 00:29:30,680
Speaker 2: Driving and Crime? Driving and Crime without a doubt, the

537
00:29:31,680 --> 00:29:35,480
Speaker 2: Kevin Kenney is one of the best songwriters. That band's

538
00:29:35,520 --> 00:29:37,680
Speaker 2: one of the best bands. I would go, Drive In

539
00:29:37,720 --> 00:29:44,480
Speaker 2: and Crime. And there's an artist, well, Sheryl Crow's band director.

540
00:29:44,560 --> 00:29:47,560
Speaker 2: But he's like our sixth member to Peter Stroud. He's

541
00:29:47,560 --> 00:29:51,680
Speaker 2: played with everybody from Don Henley, Sarah maclachlin, like just

542
00:29:51,680 --> 00:29:56,480
Speaker 2: just the talent. So he's found his niche where he's

543
00:29:56,600 --> 00:29:59,560
Speaker 2: like the sixth man on a lot of these artists.

544
00:29:59,600 --> 00:30:02,520
Speaker 2: But he he is. But the one I would say

545
00:30:02,560 --> 00:30:09,240
Speaker 2: first and foremost would be Driving and Crime. No if answer, but.

546
00:30:16,800 --> 00:30:20,000
Speaker 1: Okay, So what was your situation growing up? What were

547
00:30:20,000 --> 00:30:22,040
Speaker 1: your parents doing when you were growing up?

548
00:30:23,080 --> 00:30:26,960
Speaker 2: Well, my dad was a minister. He was operatic trained

549
00:30:27,000 --> 00:30:31,280
Speaker 2: and he was about to leave to live in Italy

550
00:30:31,320 --> 00:30:34,160
Speaker 2: and sing opera and then him and God had a

551
00:30:34,200 --> 00:30:36,440
Speaker 2: talk and he decided he was going into the ministry.

552
00:30:37,240 --> 00:30:41,880
Speaker 2: So he became a minister of music and eventually became

553
00:30:41,920 --> 00:30:43,920
Speaker 2: a minister. But he's a minister of music first, and

554
00:30:43,960 --> 00:30:47,280
Speaker 2: my mom played piano in church and that's what I

555
00:30:47,320 --> 00:30:50,400
Speaker 2: grew up in I knew nothing different and it was awesome.

556
00:30:50,880 --> 00:30:55,840
Speaker 2: I mean they I had loved discipline, sports, you know,

557
00:30:55,880 --> 00:30:59,280
Speaker 2: it was outside playing all the time. And I had

558
00:31:01,760 --> 00:31:04,400
Speaker 2: their devotion. I had my devotion to them, like my

559
00:31:04,520 --> 00:31:08,280
Speaker 2: childhood was great. We had no money, but that didn't

560
00:31:08,560 --> 00:31:10,960
Speaker 2: That's why I always tell my wife money doesn't it.

561
00:31:11,520 --> 00:31:15,400
Speaker 1: Okay, So your father had his own church cracked. And

562
00:31:15,440 --> 00:31:16,720
Speaker 1: where was that church?

563
00:31:17,600 --> 00:31:22,680
Speaker 2: Scottridge, Georgia, south of Atlanta, about twenty miles south of Atlanta.

564
00:31:23,800 --> 00:31:25,800
Speaker 1: And how big a congregation was that?

565
00:31:27,560 --> 00:31:29,280
Speaker 2: About three to four hundred.

566
00:31:29,960 --> 00:31:35,160
Speaker 1: Okay, So you're the minister's son. So once you walk

567
00:31:35,200 --> 00:31:37,560
Speaker 1: out the door, is that a good thing or bad thing?

568
00:31:37,600 --> 00:31:39,920
Speaker 1: People make fun of you, people treat you special.

569
00:31:41,000 --> 00:31:44,800
Speaker 2: Oh I didn't get treated special. I mean you know,

570
00:31:44,880 --> 00:31:47,960
Speaker 2: when the principal of your high school is the deacon

571
00:31:48,000 --> 00:31:50,520
Speaker 2: of the church, you're being watched. Twenty four to seven.

572
00:31:50,600 --> 00:31:55,160
Speaker 2: I was scrutinized quite often. I mean I didn't mindn't

573
00:31:55,160 --> 00:31:57,800
Speaker 2: I wouldn't do anything crazy. I mean, you know, when

574
00:31:57,800 --> 00:31:59,800
Speaker 2: I was fourteen, when I decided I want to do music,

575
00:32:00,080 --> 00:32:02,160
Speaker 2: was like that's all I cared about. I just did music.

576
00:32:02,200 --> 00:32:05,320
Speaker 2: But now nobody ever made it was a small town.

577
00:32:05,440 --> 00:32:08,080
Speaker 2: So it was like once again, I go back to

578
00:32:08,200 --> 00:32:10,960
Speaker 2: like if you want to, if I could compare it

579
00:32:11,000 --> 00:32:14,600
Speaker 2: to anything, it'd be like Mayberry, you know Andy Griffith show,

580
00:32:14,680 --> 00:32:18,160
Speaker 2: Like it was just that everybody was a neighbor and

581
00:32:18,240 --> 00:32:22,040
Speaker 2: it was just that simple. Everybody made mistakes, everybody did

582
00:32:22,080 --> 00:32:25,280
Speaker 2: some wrong things here and there, but everybody were neighbors

583
00:32:25,360 --> 00:32:26,320
Speaker 2: and cared for each other.

584
00:32:27,920 --> 00:32:31,920
Speaker 1: So we live in this polarized era. You know, when

585
00:32:31,960 --> 00:32:33,600
Speaker 1: I grew up, which is you know, kind of when

586
00:32:33,640 --> 00:32:35,720
Speaker 1: you were born, you were a little later than from me,

587
00:32:36,280 --> 00:32:39,120
Speaker 1: there was all this. You know, the South is rednecks

588
00:32:39,240 --> 00:32:42,680
Speaker 1: below the Mace and Dixon line, you know. Then there's

589
00:32:42,680 --> 00:32:47,200
Speaker 1: issues of the Confederate War. Now there's maga. What does

590
00:32:47,480 --> 00:32:51,000
Speaker 1: the North not understand about the South?

591
00:32:54,640 --> 00:32:56,840
Speaker 2: I don't know. It seems they're all moving down here now.

592
00:32:58,760 --> 00:33:02,640
Speaker 2: I don't know. I just think that's just you know,

593
00:33:03,080 --> 00:33:05,800
Speaker 2: folk lore for lack of a better term. You know,

594
00:33:05,880 --> 00:33:11,840
Speaker 2: my wife's from Washington State and are there and I

595
00:33:11,880 --> 00:33:13,920
Speaker 2: hate to use the word rednecks because if you understand

596
00:33:13,960 --> 00:33:17,480
Speaker 2: what redneck means, it's actually the farmers that worked in

597
00:33:17,480 --> 00:33:21,360
Speaker 2: the fields, that worked hard and fed people and they

598
00:33:21,560 --> 00:33:25,680
Speaker 2: would get their next burn so it wasn't. So it's

599
00:33:25,720 --> 00:33:28,280
Speaker 2: taken another turn, and I know what people mean by it.

600
00:33:28,840 --> 00:33:35,200
Speaker 2: You can find hatred and bigotry and racism in any

601
00:33:35,400 --> 00:33:38,040
Speaker 2: part of this country. Trust me, I've seen it in

602
00:33:38,120 --> 00:33:40,000
Speaker 2: every part of this country. I've seen it more than

603
00:33:40,000 --> 00:33:42,320
Speaker 2: I have in the South. It's one reason I've never

604
00:33:42,400 --> 00:33:45,840
Speaker 2: left the South or Atlanta, because I love the diversity

605
00:33:45,840 --> 00:33:49,080
Speaker 2: of Atlanta, and I wanted my children raised in diversity

606
00:33:49,120 --> 00:33:54,960
Speaker 2: to understand that my children don't even know they're best

607
00:33:55,000 --> 00:33:58,880
Speaker 2: friends are African Americans are ancient. It doesn't matter to

608
00:33:58,960 --> 00:34:02,240
Speaker 2: that generation. And that's how I wanted to teach my children.

609
00:34:02,240 --> 00:34:04,560
Speaker 2: And that's why I stayed in Atlanta because it offers that.

610
00:34:05,640 --> 00:34:09,040
Speaker 2: And I don't know why the Northerners think that. I

611
00:34:09,080 --> 00:34:13,440
Speaker 2: don't know why anybody thinks that, you know, there's good

612
00:34:13,520 --> 00:34:17,200
Speaker 2: people here. I mean, I don't think everybody up in

613
00:34:17,200 --> 00:34:18,520
Speaker 2: the Northeast is in the mob.

614
00:34:22,680 --> 00:34:25,200
Speaker 1: Let's go one step deeper. There's a lot of news

615
00:34:25,360 --> 00:34:29,440
Speaker 1: in Georgia having to do with Fanny Willis and stuff

616
00:34:29,520 --> 00:34:33,080
Speaker 1: like that. Is there a big red blue divide? Is

617
00:34:33,080 --> 00:34:35,279
Speaker 1: that something you feel or is that just something you

618
00:34:35,320 --> 00:34:37,920
Speaker 1: read in the newspapers.

619
00:34:38,840 --> 00:34:44,280
Speaker 2: I'm sure it's there. I personally haven't seen it. Now

620
00:34:45,280 --> 00:34:50,239
Speaker 2: you can talk red and blue and have difference. The

621
00:34:50,280 --> 00:34:56,359
Speaker 2: people I talk to that have different ideologies politically have conversations.

622
00:34:56,800 --> 00:35:02,600
Speaker 2: They're not angry, they're just having conversations. So I think

623
00:35:02,640 --> 00:35:06,000
Speaker 2: some of the stuff is what do you you know?

624
00:35:06,120 --> 00:35:08,600
Speaker 2: I think they want it for TV, or they want

625
00:35:08,600 --> 00:35:11,920
Speaker 2: it or maybe even for their individual selves. I don't know.

626
00:35:11,960 --> 00:35:14,000
Speaker 2: I don't know those people. All I know is the

627
00:35:14,040 --> 00:35:20,239
Speaker 2: people that are surround myself with. We differ even in

628
00:35:20,280 --> 00:35:27,560
Speaker 2: the band. We differ politically, we differ religiously. We different ideology.

629
00:35:27,680 --> 00:35:29,719
Speaker 2: To me, that makes up a society. And like I

630
00:35:29,760 --> 00:35:31,759
Speaker 2: said earlier, not only do we like each other, we

631
00:35:31,800 --> 00:35:34,759
Speaker 2: love each other, and just that's that's society. If we

632
00:35:34,800 --> 00:35:37,799
Speaker 2: all thought the same way, we'd be a bunch of

633
00:35:37,840 --> 00:35:40,640
Speaker 2: cows in the pasture waiting to get grazing and waiting

634
00:35:40,680 --> 00:35:44,480
Speaker 2: to get slaughtered. You know, at least you're learning and

635
00:35:44,520 --> 00:35:49,719
Speaker 2: taking and absorbing other people's thoughts. So I think it's

636
00:35:51,400 --> 00:35:54,879
Speaker 2: I just think it's ratings or clicks, whatever the kids

637
00:35:54,920 --> 00:35:56,600
Speaker 2: call it nowadays. I think it's for that.

638
00:35:58,560 --> 00:36:01,680
Speaker 1: So if your wife from Washington State, how did you

639
00:36:01,719 --> 00:36:02,120
Speaker 1: meet her?

640
00:36:03,920 --> 00:36:12,960
Speaker 2: She her family moved to Atlanta, and I had a

641
00:36:12,960 --> 00:36:16,719
Speaker 2: apartment that all the players on the Atlanta Falcons when

642
00:36:16,719 --> 00:36:18,640
Speaker 2: they got hurt would just come stay at my house

643
00:36:18,760 --> 00:36:22,160
Speaker 2: just because I was single and I had the nicest

644
00:36:22,160 --> 00:36:24,839
Speaker 2: TV and had all the sports channels. Then they didn't

645
00:36:24,880 --> 00:36:27,759
Speaker 2: want to spend money to go back for rehab. They

646
00:36:27,840 --> 00:36:30,799
Speaker 2: get rehab in Atlanta. So one of the guys was

647
00:36:30,840 --> 00:36:34,000
Speaker 2: on the University of Washington and he called me and

648
00:36:34,000 --> 00:36:36,319
Speaker 2: said he was out. He said, hey, I got a

649
00:36:36,320 --> 00:36:38,800
Speaker 2: friend coming over to get some Falcon tickets. I was like, okay.

650
00:36:39,560 --> 00:36:42,520
Speaker 2: So I thought it was a dude, because their dudes

651
00:36:42,520 --> 00:36:44,720
Speaker 2: would come in and out. Like I'm old school Southern

652
00:36:44,920 --> 00:36:50,279
Speaker 2: door was always open, just come and go. And I

653
00:36:50,320 --> 00:36:52,640
Speaker 2: opened the door. It was this beautiful woman and I'm

654
00:36:52,680 --> 00:36:54,320
Speaker 2: sitting there in my boxers because I just thought it

655
00:36:54,320 --> 00:36:57,319
Speaker 2: would dude, and and she was on the date and

656
00:36:57,360 --> 00:36:59,480
Speaker 2: I was like, here, my name's Ed. And then we

657
00:36:59,520 --> 00:37:03,160
Speaker 2: went and did a European tour for three weeks and

658
00:37:03,200 --> 00:37:06,520
Speaker 2: it was the last face of a woman I truly saw.

659
00:37:06,719 --> 00:37:09,080
Speaker 2: And I got back and called her and said, do

660
00:37:09,120 --> 00:37:11,720
Speaker 2: you remember me? My name's Ed. She has no pop culture,

661
00:37:11,760 --> 00:37:15,080
Speaker 2: She had no idea who I was and I said,

662
00:37:15,800 --> 00:37:18,680
Speaker 2: RIM's in town tonight. I'd love to take you to

663
00:37:18,800 --> 00:37:21,440
Speaker 2: the show. I said, I just got back in from

664
00:37:22,040 --> 00:37:25,400
Speaker 2: Europe and she says no. She made every excuse and

665
00:37:25,440 --> 00:37:27,640
Speaker 2: I was like, I don't know what got into me.

666
00:37:27,840 --> 00:37:29,399
Speaker 2: I just said, you know what, I'm going to sit

667
00:37:29,440 --> 00:37:32,080
Speaker 2: here at this bar and when you get here, I'm waiting.

668
00:37:32,440 --> 00:37:35,560
Speaker 2: And she showed up three hours later, three hours later,

669
00:37:35,600 --> 00:37:38,279
Speaker 2: and we went to RIM and we've never been separated

670
00:37:38,320 --> 00:37:39,360
Speaker 2: since twenty years.

671
00:37:40,560 --> 00:37:43,319
Speaker 1: Now. You've been married before, right, I was, yeah?

672
00:37:43,560 --> 00:37:44,000
Speaker 2: Correct?

673
00:37:44,320 --> 00:37:47,040
Speaker 1: And how long were you married and how long between

674
00:37:47,080 --> 00:37:49,000
Speaker 1: the two wives?

675
00:37:49,280 --> 00:37:53,160
Speaker 2: Uh? I think the first marriage was four years and

676
00:37:53,239 --> 00:37:55,720
Speaker 2: I think it was four years in between the divorce.

677
00:37:56,520 --> 00:37:57,960
Speaker 1: So why did you get divorced?

678
00:37:59,560 --> 00:38:04,640
Speaker 2: You know, some people, some people do things they probably

679
00:38:04,680 --> 00:38:08,080
Speaker 2: wish they didn't do. So I'm not going to get

680
00:38:08,080 --> 00:38:13,000
Speaker 2: into that because that's not worth it. You know. I

681
00:38:13,040 --> 00:38:16,160
Speaker 2: will tell you the one beautiful thing. She is a

682
00:38:16,360 --> 00:38:21,560
Speaker 2: wonderful mother and I'm proud to have a child with her,

683
00:38:21,760 --> 00:38:23,400
Speaker 2: So I'm just gonna leave it at that.

684
00:38:24,160 --> 00:38:28,400
Speaker 1: Okay, did you meet her before or after you had success?

685
00:38:29,280 --> 00:38:29,839
Speaker 2: Right at it?

686
00:38:30,160 --> 00:38:34,200
Speaker 1: And did the level of your success affect the relationship?

687
00:38:34,719 --> 00:38:39,719
Speaker 2: Yes? Yeah, definitely, And once again, she was young. I

688
00:38:39,840 --> 00:38:43,960
Speaker 2: was naive, and my attention was spent a lot on

689
00:38:44,040 --> 00:38:47,120
Speaker 2: Collective Soul because that's everything was just happening so fast.

690
00:38:47,760 --> 00:38:51,600
Speaker 2: So you know, we should have probably dated two more years,

691
00:38:51,640 --> 00:38:54,560
Speaker 2: would have probably helped the relationship instead of going to

692
00:38:54,640 --> 00:38:58,839
Speaker 2: Vegas and have Elvis marry you. So, you know, hindsight's

693
00:38:58,840 --> 00:39:02,240
Speaker 2: twenty twenty. They say, I wish I had twenty twenty vision.

694
00:39:02,280 --> 00:39:05,200
Speaker 1: Now you have a child with this woman.

695
00:39:05,800 --> 00:39:08,480
Speaker 2: Crack. He's twenty five and what is he up to?

696
00:39:10,040 --> 00:39:12,640
Speaker 2: He's bartending right now. You know, he's one of those

697
00:39:12,680 --> 00:39:14,680
Speaker 2: twenty five year olds trying to figure it out. He

698
00:39:14,719 --> 00:39:18,040
Speaker 2: loves music, he loves going to concerts, and I'm like,

699
00:39:18,719 --> 00:39:21,640
Speaker 2: we'll figure something out. Brother, He'll get there.

700
00:39:22,760 --> 00:39:26,239
Speaker 1: Okay. How do you know all the Atlanta Falcons that

701
00:39:26,320 --> 00:39:27,960
Speaker 1: they're coming crashing at your place?

702
00:39:28,800 --> 00:39:34,200
Speaker 2: Well, because one of the guys lived across the I

703
00:39:34,520 --> 00:39:36,480
Speaker 2: it was dearing my divorce, so it was after he

704
00:39:36,520 --> 00:39:41,400
Speaker 2: lived across at the apartment and he was on the

705
00:39:41,400 --> 00:39:44,279
Speaker 2: Falcons and they were and they were all it was

706
00:39:44,320 --> 00:39:46,799
Speaker 2: all the drafted kids, the ones trying to make the

707
00:39:46,840 --> 00:39:48,520
Speaker 2: team if they got drafted, or the ones trying to

708
00:39:48,520 --> 00:39:50,839
Speaker 2: make the team. So they would just come over there

709
00:39:50,880 --> 00:39:52,919
Speaker 2: and he'd go go Toad's house. He's got the beer,

710
00:39:52,960 --> 00:39:57,279
Speaker 2: he's got the TV. So they would just crash at

711
00:39:57,280 --> 00:40:00,799
Speaker 2: my house. I don't know. It was just like I said,

712
00:40:00,920 --> 00:40:02,280
Speaker 2: I have an open door policy.

713
00:40:03,600 --> 00:40:05,560
Speaker 1: Well, are you the type of person who makes friends

714
00:40:05,600 --> 00:40:06,359
Speaker 1: everywhere you go?

715
00:40:07,719 --> 00:40:10,560
Speaker 2: Yes? My wife says that's a fault of mine, and

716
00:40:10,600 --> 00:40:13,480
Speaker 2: I'm like, I kind of like it. Like I guess

717
00:40:13,520 --> 00:40:15,360
Speaker 2: just being a preacher's kid, I watch my father and

718
00:40:15,440 --> 00:40:17,600
Speaker 2: mother do it my whole life, and I'm like, if

719
00:40:17,600 --> 00:40:19,960
Speaker 2: somebody's over there sitting eating alone, I'm going to go

720
00:40:20,000 --> 00:40:23,279
Speaker 2: talk to them, like, hey, everything cool, you know. I mean,

721
00:40:23,360 --> 00:40:25,880
Speaker 2: they can show me away, but it just makes me uncomfortable.

722
00:40:25,920 --> 00:40:29,200
Speaker 2: I want everybody to know somebody in the world loves them.

723
00:40:29,840 --> 00:40:33,680
Speaker 1: So your father was a minister. Are you still a believer?

724
00:40:34,600 --> 00:40:38,000
Speaker 2: I am. I have no problem with that. I don't

725
00:40:38,040 --> 00:40:42,600
Speaker 2: believe in how he believed that way. I do believe,

726
00:40:43,400 --> 00:40:46,240
Speaker 2: Like I meditate every day. I'm actually going to meditate

727
00:40:46,280 --> 00:40:51,279
Speaker 2: with monks this weekend. I believe in spirituality, and I

728
00:40:51,320 --> 00:40:53,799
Speaker 2: know that's a cop out, but I do believe the

729
00:40:53,840 --> 00:40:57,640
Speaker 2: teachings of Jesus because it's really kind of simple and clean.

730
00:40:57,960 --> 00:41:00,000
Speaker 2: You know. I don't really have to do anything except

731
00:41:00,800 --> 00:41:04,920
Speaker 2: please forgive me, and I mess up a lot, so

732
00:41:05,040 --> 00:41:06,959
Speaker 2: it's kind of an easy cop out there too.

733
00:41:08,880 --> 00:41:11,040
Speaker 1: Okay, just when we talk about these.

734
00:41:11,360 --> 00:41:14,080
Speaker 2: My wife, my wife. My wife's Jewish, so it doesn't

735
00:41:14,239 --> 00:41:17,279
Speaker 2: you know. So it's and I don't. I don't care

736
00:41:18,239 --> 00:41:19,560
Speaker 2: as long as you're a good person.

737
00:41:20,560 --> 00:41:23,799
Speaker 1: But you've been in the rock and roll lifestyle. Have

738
00:41:23,920 --> 00:41:26,200
Speaker 1: you overdone it with drugs or alcohol?

739
00:41:26,880 --> 00:41:28,600
Speaker 2: Never? Never?

740
00:41:28,719 --> 00:41:29,920
Speaker 1: Not your personality.

741
00:41:30,480 --> 00:41:33,120
Speaker 2: No. I didn't drink till I was thirty, and it

742
00:41:33,160 --> 00:41:34,560
Speaker 2: was first time we were on tour, and I was

743
00:41:34,600 --> 00:41:37,799
Speaker 2: just bored. Never smoked till I was fifty. I was

744
00:41:37,880 --> 00:41:41,239
Speaker 2: like bored, Like no, I just never wasn't a part

745
00:41:41,280 --> 00:41:44,600
Speaker 2: of my gig. Man to be, as my wife would

746
00:41:44,640 --> 00:41:47,040
Speaker 2: like to say, Ed likes to be in control.

747
00:41:49,920 --> 00:41:53,160
Speaker 1: I understand that completely, but just go one step further.

748
00:41:53,400 --> 00:41:54,480
Speaker 1: Are you controlling?

749
00:41:55,719 --> 00:41:58,240
Speaker 2: No? No, I want to be in control of my temple,

750
00:41:59,280 --> 00:42:02,280
Speaker 2: in control of my at my surroundings, but not controlling

751
00:42:02,320 --> 00:42:05,400
Speaker 2: of any No. No, no. I love people that do

752
00:42:05,440 --> 00:42:09,040
Speaker 2: their own gig. I learned from that. I actually get

753
00:42:09,120 --> 00:42:13,520
Speaker 2: inspired by it. Like that's cool, that's people would go, man,

754
00:42:13,560 --> 00:42:16,279
Speaker 2: they're crazy. I'm like, no, they're not. They're they're living

755
00:42:16,320 --> 00:42:18,200
Speaker 2: the dream right now. Man, that's cool.

756
00:42:18,840 --> 00:42:21,160
Speaker 1: Okay, So how many kids in the family.

757
00:42:21,520 --> 00:42:25,000
Speaker 2: And my family you have three siblings, two younger brothers

758
00:42:25,040 --> 00:42:25,880
Speaker 2: and a younger sister.

759
00:42:26,840 --> 00:42:30,600
Speaker 1: Okay, so you're the oldest I am, and usually all

760
00:42:30,640 --> 00:42:33,960
Speaker 1: the hopes and dreams are in the oldest. Did you

761
00:42:34,040 --> 00:42:34,560
Speaker 1: feel that?

762
00:42:35,719 --> 00:42:38,560
Speaker 2: Not all? Not at all? Now, I'm telling you, man,

763
00:42:38,640 --> 00:42:42,360
Speaker 2: my childhood it was crazy back in the day. People go,

764
00:42:42,760 --> 00:42:46,880
Speaker 2: must have been horrible growing up with it as your

765
00:42:46,960 --> 00:42:49,160
Speaker 2: dad being a preacher. I was like, now, it's kind

766
00:42:49,160 --> 00:42:51,200
Speaker 2: of cool. You know. First concert he took me to

767
00:42:51,360 --> 00:42:54,080
Speaker 2: is Johnny Cash. Then he took me to see the Liberachi,

768
00:42:54,200 --> 00:42:56,239
Speaker 2: and he took me to see the Kinks, took me

769
00:42:56,239 --> 00:42:59,279
Speaker 2: to see Elton John was like, no, that sounds kind

770
00:42:59,280 --> 00:43:00,680
Speaker 2: of good to me. That's kind of cool.

771
00:43:00,920 --> 00:43:06,480
Speaker 1: Okay, your father was trained operatically. How do you end

772
00:43:06,560 --> 00:43:08,400
Speaker 1: up being a fan of the Kinks and going to

773
00:43:08,440 --> 00:43:10,240
Speaker 1: see the Kinks?

774
00:43:10,880 --> 00:43:12,840
Speaker 2: Don't ask me. I wish I could ask him now.

775
00:43:12,880 --> 00:43:14,799
Speaker 2: I should have asked him that a while back. He's

776
00:43:14,800 --> 00:43:18,160
Speaker 2: been he's been good. Lord said hey to him about

777
00:43:18,160 --> 00:43:21,840
Speaker 2: twenty years ago. I wish like The Kinks is the

778
00:43:21,840 --> 00:43:25,000
Speaker 2: one that throws me off. I understand Liberaci because his mother,

779
00:43:25,560 --> 00:43:28,560
Speaker 2: my grandmother, loved Liberachi. So something there, you know, like

780
00:43:28,680 --> 00:43:31,680
Speaker 2: going to see your mom's favorite artist, Elton, I could

781
00:43:31,719 --> 00:43:36,000
Speaker 2: get Johnny Cash, I could get the Kinks. That one

782
00:43:36,040 --> 00:43:39,920
Speaker 2: goes by me a little bit. I'm like, I'm glad

783
00:43:39,960 --> 00:43:42,799
Speaker 2: he did because I always tell people they're like, you know,

784
00:43:43,360 --> 00:43:46,080
Speaker 2: my brother's and the band Dean, and people go to

785
00:43:46,160 --> 00:43:49,279
Speaker 2: y'all fight and you know, like the Davies brothers, and

786
00:43:49,320 --> 00:43:51,440
Speaker 2: I was like, you know what I always tell my

787
00:43:51,480 --> 00:43:53,960
Speaker 2: brother Dean. I was like, dude, I love you, but

788
00:43:54,040 --> 00:43:56,040
Speaker 2: I would never break a guitar over your head because

789
00:43:56,040 --> 00:43:58,759
Speaker 2: I have so much more love for my guitars than

790
00:43:58,800 --> 00:44:03,239
Speaker 2: I do you. It's just an inside joke.

791
00:44:10,680 --> 00:44:15,120
Speaker 1: Okay, so your father's taken to these shows. Is that

792
00:44:15,160 --> 00:44:17,600
Speaker 1: what infects you with music and makes you decide to

793
00:44:17,600 --> 00:44:18,480
Speaker 1: become a musician.

794
00:44:20,600 --> 00:44:24,279
Speaker 2: What made me want to become I wanted to be

795
00:44:24,280 --> 00:44:27,960
Speaker 2: become a songwriter. What happened was because we had records.

796
00:44:28,000 --> 00:44:30,800
Speaker 2: I mean, I grew up basically on gospel and hymnal music,

797
00:44:31,120 --> 00:44:33,480
Speaker 2: and Elvis was in the house and they'd be Jerry

798
00:44:33,520 --> 00:44:39,840
Speaker 2: Lee Lewis and Frank and Dean Martin. But it was

799
00:44:39,920 --> 00:44:42,640
Speaker 2: when I saved up enough of my allowance to go

800
00:44:42,680 --> 00:44:46,279
Speaker 2: by the first record, And to this day I could

801
00:44:46,320 --> 00:44:52,960
Speaker 2: remember it was at Richway and the what do you

802
00:44:53,040 --> 00:44:54,880
Speaker 2: used to call them where they put all the records.

803
00:44:55,000 --> 00:44:58,840
Speaker 2: Who's the front and center had Olivia Newton, John, John

804
00:44:58,920 --> 00:45:01,799
Speaker 2: Denver and Elton John. And I didn't know any of

805
00:45:01,800 --> 00:45:04,520
Speaker 2: these artists, and I would made no mistake by going

806
00:45:04,600 --> 00:45:07,120
Speaker 2: with either one. But I was like, man, that guy

807
00:45:07,280 --> 00:45:10,239
Speaker 2: dress is really cool. I'm gonna I'm getting Elton John

808
00:45:10,400 --> 00:45:12,480
Speaker 2: and it's literally when I put the needle down, I

809
00:45:12,520 --> 00:45:15,480
Speaker 2: was like, I want to write like Elton John and

810
00:45:15,480 --> 00:45:19,080
Speaker 2: Bernie Tale. I just I can't. Nobody ever will. But

811
00:45:19,320 --> 00:45:21,680
Speaker 2: that's what inspired me. Literally your song. When I put

812
00:45:21,719 --> 00:45:24,320
Speaker 2: it on, I was like, oh my gosh, like it's

813
00:45:24,880 --> 00:45:26,680
Speaker 2: the flow and the beauty of it. I could still

814
00:45:26,719 --> 00:45:28,880
Speaker 2: remember when I put it on the record player and

815
00:45:29,760 --> 00:45:32,640
Speaker 2: then you know, listening to the greatest hits and I

816
00:45:32,760 --> 00:45:36,399
Speaker 2: just would wear that record out. I probably have over

817
00:45:36,400 --> 00:45:38,399
Speaker 2: the year. I probably over the years, I probably about

818
00:45:38,440 --> 00:45:40,320
Speaker 2: twenty of those records, because like I said, I'm a

819
00:45:40,360 --> 00:45:42,799
Speaker 2: vinyl guy, so I love Vinyl. I will wear that

820
00:45:42,840 --> 00:45:45,840
Speaker 2: record out just inspires me. It makes me feel youthful

821
00:45:45,880 --> 00:45:47,440
Speaker 2: and brings inspiration.

822
00:45:49,800 --> 00:45:53,239
Speaker 1: Okay, so when did you start playing an instrument.

823
00:45:54,160 --> 00:45:57,799
Speaker 2: Well, my first instrument I was eight years old and

824
00:45:57,840 --> 00:46:02,680
Speaker 2: I joined the elementary band and I played clarinet, which

825
00:46:02,680 --> 00:46:04,719
Speaker 2: I always like to say is the gateway to rock

826
00:46:04,760 --> 00:46:10,040
Speaker 2: and roll. The claire is the gateway to rock and roll. Okay,

827
00:46:10,120 --> 00:46:13,120
Speaker 2: so I played clarinet. I actually told my parents I

828
00:46:13,120 --> 00:46:16,319
Speaker 2: wanted to play the coronet, and they thought I said clarinet.

829
00:46:16,640 --> 00:46:19,799
Speaker 2: So my Southern slang must have been worse than it

830
00:46:19,880 --> 00:46:23,000
Speaker 2: is now. So anyway, brought to clarinet, and you know,

831
00:46:23,080 --> 00:46:26,080
Speaker 2: at that age the only I was the only boy

832
00:46:26,160 --> 00:46:29,040
Speaker 2: in that section because it's the clarinet, the flutes, and

833
00:46:29,480 --> 00:46:34,200
Speaker 2: there's it. And to come to learn later in life.

834
00:46:34,200 --> 00:46:36,000
Speaker 2: I was like, this is kind of cool. I'm with

835
00:46:36,040 --> 00:46:40,400
Speaker 2: all the checks man. And then I took a class

836
00:46:40,400 --> 00:46:43,880
Speaker 2: and started learning saxophone. And I was fourteen when I

837
00:46:43,960 --> 00:46:48,560
Speaker 2: learned to play the guitar. That's when I started really

838
00:46:48,560 --> 00:46:51,319
Speaker 2: wanted to learn. I wanted to learn to write songs,

839
00:46:51,560 --> 00:46:54,799
Speaker 2: and then piano just came naturally because it was just

840
00:46:54,920 --> 00:46:57,359
Speaker 2: in the house. I just I don't know. I used

841
00:46:57,360 --> 00:46:59,000
Speaker 2: to know that. I don't know. I didn't know theory

842
00:46:59,040 --> 00:47:03,120
Speaker 2: on piano. I would just watch my mom play warm

843
00:47:03,200 --> 00:47:05,040
Speaker 2: up for her and dad's gig every Sunday morning, and

844
00:47:05,080 --> 00:47:07,040
Speaker 2: I would just watch her fingers and I'm like, oh,

845
00:47:07,080 --> 00:47:09,040
Speaker 2: that's cool. So I would just get up there and

846
00:47:09,080 --> 00:47:10,359
Speaker 2: try to figure out what she was doing.

847
00:47:11,800 --> 00:47:15,080
Speaker 1: Okay, so you took Clearnett lessons? Did you ever take

848
00:47:15,200 --> 00:47:16,160
Speaker 1: guitar lessons?

849
00:47:17,520 --> 00:47:20,680
Speaker 2: I did not. I went to Berkeley College of Music,

850
00:47:20,960 --> 00:47:22,640
Speaker 2: and when I got there, they told me that I

851
00:47:22,680 --> 00:47:24,680
Speaker 2: was holding the pick wrong and I was like, oh boy,

852
00:47:26,200 --> 00:47:31,719
Speaker 2: this ain't gonna go well. So no, I just a

853
00:47:31,760 --> 00:47:33,920
Speaker 2: friend of mine gave me his guitar. I was in

854
00:47:33,960 --> 00:47:37,080
Speaker 2: the lunch room. I was fourteen, and I said I

855
00:47:37,120 --> 00:47:39,080
Speaker 2: think I want to be a songwriter, and sitting with

856
00:47:39,120 --> 00:47:41,600
Speaker 2: all the jocks, and this one guy goes, I got

857
00:47:41,600 --> 00:47:43,880
Speaker 2: a guitar, and I got a guitar book, and so

858
00:47:44,560 --> 00:47:48,279
Speaker 2: he gave me one of his Kmart guitars. I don't

859
00:47:48,280 --> 00:47:51,600
Speaker 2: know people out there remember Kmart, but it was cheap.

860
00:47:51,960 --> 00:47:54,480
Speaker 2: And he gave in Elvis Presley book that showed how

861
00:47:54,480 --> 00:47:56,680
Speaker 2: to play the chords in the Eagles book showed you

862
00:47:56,719 --> 00:47:58,600
Speaker 2: how to play the chords. So I just sat there,

863
00:47:59,280 --> 00:48:02,600
Speaker 2: you know, bloody fingers, so I could figure it out.

864
00:48:04,160 --> 00:48:06,120
Speaker 1: And did you play in bands in high school?

865
00:48:07,239 --> 00:48:11,160
Speaker 2: No, it wasn't stop. Rich was a very small place.

866
00:48:11,760 --> 00:48:14,640
Speaker 2: I did play in a Dixieland band, which was my

867
00:48:14,800 --> 00:48:18,400
Speaker 2: first paying gig. I played banjo. I did learn to

868
00:48:18,400 --> 00:48:22,840
Speaker 2: play the banjo for a second. But no, it was

869
00:48:22,920 --> 00:48:25,799
Speaker 2: such a small town and it was more based on

870
00:48:25,960 --> 00:48:28,719
Speaker 2: football and baseball and basketball and things like that. And

871
00:48:28,800 --> 00:48:30,760
Speaker 2: I was the only one that even played an instrument.

872
00:48:30,880 --> 00:48:32,960
Speaker 2: So that's one reason I went to Berkeley. I just

873
00:48:32,960 --> 00:48:35,640
Speaker 2: wanted to surround myself with other musicians.

874
00:48:36,200 --> 00:48:38,880
Speaker 1: Okay, so you're gonna graduate from high school, how do

875
00:48:38,920 --> 00:48:41,600
Speaker 1: you know about Berkeley? And how do you decide to

876
00:48:41,680 --> 00:48:42,120
Speaker 1: go there?

877
00:48:45,000 --> 00:48:48,440
Speaker 2: I became a just I couldn't get enough of music.

878
00:48:48,520 --> 00:48:51,680
Speaker 2: So it started with the cars because they were from

879
00:48:51,719 --> 00:48:54,279
Speaker 2: Boston and a couple of them had gone to a

880
00:48:54,280 --> 00:48:57,759
Speaker 2: place called Berkeley. And I was listening to Steely Dan

881
00:48:57,880 --> 00:49:02,200
Speaker 2: too and saw somehow back then you didn't have the internet.

882
00:49:02,320 --> 00:49:06,000
Speaker 2: I would get these cream or whatever those magazines were called,

883
00:49:06,080 --> 00:49:08,640
Speaker 2: you know, and they would go it went to Berkeley College.

884
00:49:08,719 --> 00:49:12,400
Speaker 2: Music was huh, so you know, just send an application

885
00:49:12,680 --> 00:49:15,440
Speaker 2: and back then you mailed everything. I would and they

886
00:49:15,440 --> 00:49:20,320
Speaker 2: would send me information. And then I just I decided

887
00:49:20,360 --> 00:49:22,680
Speaker 2: I'd needed to get out of a small town. And

888
00:49:23,040 --> 00:49:24,800
Speaker 2: at the time, I thought it was going to be

889
00:49:24,880 --> 00:49:27,840
Speaker 2: a really good guitarist, and you know, I wanted to

890
00:49:27,840 --> 00:49:30,239
Speaker 2: write songs. But when I got up there, you know,

891
00:49:30,400 --> 00:49:31,960
Speaker 2: kind of got my ass handed to me. You go

892
00:49:32,000 --> 00:49:34,560
Speaker 2: into a rehearsal room and you see these cats just wail,

893
00:49:34,600 --> 00:49:37,080
Speaker 2: and I'm say, okay, I'm gonna try songwriting.

894
00:49:37,080 --> 00:49:43,839
Speaker 1: Now, okay, if you come from a poor family, how'd

895
00:49:43,880 --> 00:49:44,840
Speaker 1: you pay for Berkeley?

896
00:49:45,719 --> 00:49:50,240
Speaker 2: A student loan of which I did payback. My uncle

897
00:49:50,400 --> 00:49:54,360
Speaker 2: was a banker. So I went to my uncle really

898
00:49:54,840 --> 00:49:56,960
Speaker 2: correct and got a loan.

899
00:49:58,520 --> 00:49:59,959
Speaker 1: Do you remember how much it was.

900
00:49:59,880 --> 00:50:02,160
Speaker 2: For twenty four hundred bucks?

901
00:50:03,719 --> 00:50:05,760
Speaker 1: So how long did you last at Berkeley?

902
00:50:06,160 --> 00:50:12,120
Speaker 2: Six months. He wasn't gonna teach me. He wasn't gonna

903
00:50:12,120 --> 00:50:14,160
Speaker 2: teach me what I wanted to learn. I mean, I

904
00:50:14,200 --> 00:50:16,440
Speaker 2: tell this story quite often. I was walking, you know,

905
00:50:16,520 --> 00:50:18,920
Speaker 2: I was a naive Southern boy from a small town.

906
00:50:19,080 --> 00:50:21,000
Speaker 2: I would just walk up to people and say hey.

907
00:50:21,560 --> 00:50:24,800
Speaker 2: And I met this mailman. He was doing his route

908
00:50:25,120 --> 00:50:28,279
Speaker 2: and I said hey. He's like, hey, you know I

909
00:50:28,320 --> 00:50:30,800
Speaker 2: looked interesting at that time. I had orange hair and

910
00:50:30,840 --> 00:50:32,279
Speaker 2: all over the place. He goes, you're in a band.

911
00:50:32,360 --> 00:50:33,920
Speaker 2: He was like, no, I'm going to Berkeley. He goes,

912
00:50:33,960 --> 00:50:36,160
Speaker 2: I graduated from there. I was like, really, what are

913
00:50:36,160 --> 00:50:38,279
Speaker 2: you being a mailman for? He goes, well, if you

914
00:50:38,320 --> 00:50:41,200
Speaker 2: graduate there, you're really just going to be a teacher.

915
00:50:41,920 --> 00:50:43,480
Speaker 2: I was like really, he goes, well, what do you

916
00:50:43,520 --> 00:50:44,960
Speaker 2: want to do? I said, I want to write songs.

917
00:50:45,040 --> 00:50:47,680
Speaker 2: He said, you need to quit and go explore life

918
00:50:48,320 --> 00:50:51,439
Speaker 2: and learn about life and find it within yourself. They're

919
00:50:51,440 --> 00:50:52,759
Speaker 2: not going to teach you how to write his song

920
00:50:52,800 --> 00:50:55,279
Speaker 2: in there, And so I always say I had a

921
00:50:55,320 --> 00:50:57,880
Speaker 2: life lesson from Cliff Claven from Cheers.

922
00:51:00,239 --> 00:51:03,840
Speaker 1: Okay, in the six months you were there, did you

923
00:51:04,000 --> 00:51:07,840
Speaker 1: feel alienated? Did you fit in? Did you learn anything?

924
00:51:09,719 --> 00:51:12,319
Speaker 2: I learned more about life. Yeah, fit in. I had

925
00:51:12,320 --> 00:51:15,160
Speaker 2: that personality where I was I'm not afraid to meet

926
00:51:15,200 --> 00:51:19,960
Speaker 2: people and do things. Yeah. I mean I got a

927
00:51:20,000 --> 00:51:24,040
Speaker 2: girlfriend there, like I was. I was happening baby. Plus,

928
00:51:24,080 --> 00:51:25,880
Speaker 2: you know, you know what the funny thing is, the

929
00:51:26,040 --> 00:51:29,440
Speaker 2: accent gets the girl at that age, They're like, you

930
00:51:29,600 --> 00:51:35,040
Speaker 2: sound funny. So I mean, we hitched tight to go

931
00:51:35,080 --> 00:51:37,399
Speaker 2: see Billy Joel, Like, we did all kinds of fun

932
00:51:37,440 --> 00:51:40,160
Speaker 2: stuff that you can't do nowadays. But yeah, I fit in.

933
00:51:40,480 --> 00:51:42,800
Speaker 2: I had a great time. But I learned more about life,

934
00:51:42,840 --> 00:51:48,799
Speaker 2: and I did learn structure of chord progressions, Like they

935
00:51:48,800 --> 00:51:51,520
Speaker 2: were playing chords I'd never thought of or heard of.

936
00:51:51,640 --> 00:51:53,920
Speaker 2: So I was just watching. I'd go in rehearsal spaces

937
00:51:53,960 --> 00:51:56,400
Speaker 2: and play with these guitar players and I was like,

938
00:51:56,760 --> 00:52:01,160
Speaker 2: what cord is that hold on? And so it was

939
00:52:02,280 --> 00:52:06,960
Speaker 2: learning a different I don't know tonality or timber of

940
00:52:07,120 --> 00:52:09,279
Speaker 2: like different chords.

941
00:52:10,400 --> 00:52:12,680
Speaker 1: How hard was it to decide to drop out? And

942
00:52:12,680 --> 00:52:14,080
Speaker 1: what did your parents say about it?

943
00:52:14,840 --> 00:52:18,520
Speaker 2: Oh? Once again, they've been nothing but supportive. They were like,

944
00:52:19,080 --> 00:52:21,640
Speaker 2: get home, get a job, which I did immediately work

945
00:52:21,680 --> 00:52:25,839
Speaker 2: for the hospital. And then there was a studio. Well

946
00:52:25,880 --> 00:52:28,759
Speaker 2: I just stacked. I mean once again, I went and

947
00:52:28,760 --> 00:52:35,239
Speaker 2: put all the drugs and all the surgery rooms. And

948
00:52:35,280 --> 00:52:38,880
Speaker 2: then there was a studio and where I grew up, Stockbridge, Georgia,

949
00:52:38,960 --> 00:52:42,120
Speaker 2: wil Turp and a bass player's father owned. So my

950
00:52:42,200 --> 00:52:44,480
Speaker 2: dad was like, if you really want to do music,

951
00:52:44,719 --> 00:52:46,359
Speaker 2: just go down there and start learning. So I would

952
00:52:46,360 --> 00:52:47,799
Speaker 2: go down there and I would sit in the back

953
00:52:47,800 --> 00:52:50,960
Speaker 2: of the room for three months. I would ask clean

954
00:52:51,640 --> 00:52:55,600
Speaker 2: the toilets, made coffee, did everything I could, just sat

955
00:52:55,600 --> 00:52:58,560
Speaker 2: there for three months, and the head engineer finally got

956
00:52:58,560 --> 00:53:01,960
Speaker 2: a job in Nashville. So Bill asked me if I

957
00:53:02,000 --> 00:53:04,480
Speaker 2: wanted to be the engineer, and I was like, I'd

958
00:53:04,520 --> 00:53:06,560
Speaker 2: love to, And so that's how it kind of started

959
00:53:06,560 --> 00:53:08,640
Speaker 2: there with the whole once again, it gave me the

960
00:53:08,680 --> 00:53:11,480
Speaker 2: opportunity to not only learn how to engineer, but produced

961
00:53:11,520 --> 00:53:15,960
Speaker 2: and learned mike placements temperament. And then when there was downtime,

962
00:53:16,000 --> 00:53:19,080
Speaker 2: that's where I would sit there and do my own songs.

963
00:53:20,320 --> 00:53:22,000
Speaker 1: So what kind of stuff were you recording?

964
00:53:23,800 --> 00:53:26,480
Speaker 2: Horrible? Oh? For me, mine was horrible.

965
00:53:26,840 --> 00:53:29,520
Speaker 1: But no, no, no, no, no, no, you're working in this studio,

966
00:53:29,640 --> 00:53:32,640
Speaker 1: in this studio, what kind of talent came in through

967
00:53:32,640 --> 00:53:33,120
Speaker 1: the doors?

968
00:53:33,400 --> 00:53:36,360
Speaker 2: The first session I ever had was Rue Paul. I

969
00:53:36,360 --> 00:53:40,279
Speaker 2: can't make that up. You followed my first session and

970
00:53:40,320 --> 00:53:43,399
Speaker 2: he and I became buddies and we just and he

971
00:53:43,680 --> 00:53:46,800
Speaker 2: allowed me to like he would sing a melody or something.

972
00:53:46,960 --> 00:53:50,520
Speaker 2: So it started me like learning to play and producing.

973
00:53:51,200 --> 00:53:56,759
Speaker 2: And then it was an intermediate studio. I'll use that

974
00:53:56,840 --> 00:54:00,239
Speaker 2: word so I would get a lot of bluegrass app

975
00:54:00,320 --> 00:54:02,359
Speaker 2: was starting to happen, to get wrap, I get heavy melt,

976
00:54:02,440 --> 00:54:05,000
Speaker 2: I get everything, and it was just fun. It's up

977
00:54:05,080 --> 00:54:07,640
Speaker 2: and coming bands are sometimes people that just wanted to

978
00:54:07,800 --> 00:54:13,279
Speaker 2: hear their voice on tape, and I just got you know,

979
00:54:13,520 --> 00:54:18,600
Speaker 2: It's like a cornucopia of music, and I just absorbed it.

980
00:54:18,640 --> 00:54:19,719
Speaker 2: I loved every bit of it.

981
00:54:21,280 --> 00:54:23,719
Speaker 1: So did they teach you how to engineer? How'd you learn?

982
00:54:23,760 --> 00:54:25,920
Speaker 1: I mean, engineering is not that simple to be any

983
00:54:25,960 --> 00:54:26,800
Speaker 1: good edit anywhere.

984
00:54:26,840 --> 00:54:29,880
Speaker 2: I watched for three months. I just sat there and watched,

985
00:54:30,480 --> 00:54:34,360
Speaker 2: and then at the end of the night Scott Scott

986
00:54:34,400 --> 00:54:37,000
Speaker 2: Long was the engineer. I was like, I would ask

987
00:54:37,040 --> 00:54:39,200
Speaker 2: him question. He was so patient. He goes, yep, you

988
00:54:39,239 --> 00:54:41,200
Speaker 2: do you know? This is when you plug things in?

989
00:54:41,920 --> 00:54:43,400
Speaker 2: And I was like, I got you, I got you,

990
00:54:43,560 --> 00:54:46,759
Speaker 2: got you. So it was really just determination. And then

991
00:54:46,880 --> 00:54:50,279
Speaker 2: I literally would sit there from eight o'clock at night

992
00:54:50,360 --> 00:54:52,799
Speaker 2: to two o'clock in the morning and then bit the

993
00:54:52,840 --> 00:54:57,000
Speaker 2: hospital at seven to five and just rent and repeat

994
00:54:57,400 --> 00:54:58,800
Speaker 2: for three months.

995
00:54:59,440 --> 00:55:01,319
Speaker 1: And then after those three months, you gave up the

996
00:55:01,320 --> 00:55:03,040
Speaker 1: hospital work full time at the studio.

997
00:55:03,600 --> 00:55:05,840
Speaker 2: I did, but the studio didn't pay that much so

998
00:55:05,880 --> 00:55:07,200
Speaker 2: every once in a while, I have to go out

999
00:55:07,200 --> 00:55:10,040
Speaker 2: and you know, scratch around. And I was a janitor

1000
00:55:10,160 --> 00:55:14,320
Speaker 2: for a second at my dad's church. I put up siding,

1001
00:55:14,600 --> 00:55:24,480
Speaker 2: I did roofing, landscaping, just just anything to pay the bills.

1002
00:55:24,600 --> 00:55:26,759
Speaker 2: You know. At that point, I never got myself and dad.

1003
00:55:26,800 --> 00:55:30,960
Speaker 2: I've always lived within my means, so and it didn't

1004
00:55:30,960 --> 00:55:33,120
Speaker 2: cost much to live back then. I'd go to Arby's

1005
00:55:33,160 --> 00:55:35,160
Speaker 2: and get five or five dollars and that'd last me

1006
00:55:35,200 --> 00:55:35,920
Speaker 2: all week. You know.

1007
00:55:36,920 --> 00:55:37,840
Speaker 1: And where were you living?

1008
00:55:38,680 --> 00:55:42,799
Speaker 2: Midtown girlfriends and a lot of time, I just lived

1009
00:55:42,800 --> 00:55:44,680
Speaker 2: at the studio. I just sleep under the board.

1010
00:55:46,920 --> 00:55:52,000
Speaker 1: So you're working, you're recording your own music, So how

1011
00:55:52,040 --> 00:55:53,080
Speaker 1: does that evolve?

1012
00:55:54,600 --> 00:56:00,799
Speaker 2: Slowly? Because I had nobody else to help depend on,

1013
00:56:00,840 --> 00:56:05,160
Speaker 2: so I was recording everything myself, which is it's good.

1014
00:56:05,840 --> 00:56:07,880
Speaker 2: It's a blessing and a curse. It's a blessing that

1015
00:56:07,960 --> 00:56:11,080
Speaker 2: you learn how it's done and the curses that you get.

1016
00:56:11,880 --> 00:56:19,560
Speaker 2: You mentioned it earlier over control, So when I started

1017
00:56:19,600 --> 00:56:23,200
Speaker 2: having bands, I was like, wait, They're like back it up, dude,

1018
00:56:23,239 --> 00:56:26,760
Speaker 2: you know, because I'd just done it myself for so long.

1019
00:56:27,400 --> 00:56:31,280
Speaker 2: But I wouldn't change anything. I got to learn somehow,

1020
00:56:31,440 --> 00:56:33,759
Speaker 2: I guess, and that's how I learned, just sitting along

1021
00:56:33,840 --> 00:56:34,960
Speaker 2: by myself in a studio.

1022
00:56:35,560 --> 00:56:40,480
Speaker 1: Okay, how long between dropping out of Berkeley and the

1023
00:56:40,560 --> 00:56:45,640
Speaker 1: success of Shine?

1024
00:56:45,800 --> 00:56:46,919
Speaker 2: Eleven years?

1025
00:56:48,520 --> 00:56:51,000
Speaker 1: So you have confidence you're going to make it. What's

1026
00:56:51,040 --> 00:56:51,919
Speaker 1: going through your head?

1027
00:56:52,280 --> 00:56:55,320
Speaker 2: No, I just love music. I just loved it. I

1028
00:56:56,640 --> 00:57:00,040
Speaker 2: didn't expect to have a grandiose lifestyle. That's not what

1029
00:57:00,120 --> 00:57:02,239
Speaker 2: I wanted. I wanted to play music. I just wanted

1030
00:57:02,239 --> 00:57:05,080
Speaker 2: to learn music. I wanted to write songs. It was

1031
00:57:05,160 --> 00:57:08,560
Speaker 2: never about I mean, the blessings that I have now

1032
00:57:08,760 --> 00:57:11,440
Speaker 2: was not the end all of end all. It was like,

1033
00:57:11,640 --> 00:57:14,160
Speaker 2: I just wanted to play music. And the week before

1034
00:57:14,200 --> 00:57:16,120
Speaker 2: we got signed, I was already signed up to play

1035
00:57:16,120 --> 00:57:19,160
Speaker 2: on a cruise ship to play guitar. So I was

1036
00:57:19,200 --> 00:57:20,560
Speaker 2: just I just wanted to play music.

1037
00:57:21,560 --> 00:57:25,840
Speaker 1: Okay, So you're working in the studio in the eleven years,

1038
00:57:25,920 --> 00:57:29,360
Speaker 1: At what point do you start getting a band and

1039
00:57:29,400 --> 00:57:30,800
Speaker 1: working out?

1040
00:57:30,960 --> 00:57:33,200
Speaker 2: There were so many bands, Like people would come in

1041
00:57:33,280 --> 00:57:35,200
Speaker 2: and they'd go, oh, I like you want to join

1042
00:57:35,240 --> 00:57:37,880
Speaker 2: a band. I'll go yeah, and then then they would

1043
00:57:37,920 --> 00:57:40,080
Speaker 2: fizzle out and fizzle out, And I had a band

1044
00:57:40,120 --> 00:57:44,960
Speaker 2: A couple of times we did okay, but you know,

1045
00:57:45,400 --> 00:57:49,120
Speaker 2: you get I call it, you know, the old Southern

1046
00:57:49,160 --> 00:57:51,800
Speaker 2: saying long in the two about twenty four to twenty five,

1047
00:57:51,840 --> 00:57:54,120
Speaker 2: all your friends are like, whoa, I got to get

1048
00:57:54,160 --> 00:57:57,640
Speaker 2: a life here, this is this isn't not. Everybody's like

1049
00:57:57,640 --> 00:58:00,000
Speaker 2: you ed. Nobody just wants to sleep under a board

1050
00:58:00,080 --> 00:58:06,000
Speaker 2: to you know, eat Army's every day. And so they

1051
00:58:06,080 --> 00:58:08,280
Speaker 2: really did started wanting, you know, things in life that

1052
00:58:08,320 --> 00:58:12,000
Speaker 2: they wanted, families and that, but that didn't matter to me.

1053
00:58:12,040 --> 00:58:14,600
Speaker 2: All I wanted to do was music. So I call it,

1054
00:58:14,720 --> 00:58:17,160
Speaker 2: you know, twenty four to twenty five, it's fourth down

1055
00:58:17,160 --> 00:58:19,960
Speaker 2: and punt or you go for it. All my friends punted,

1056
00:58:19,960 --> 00:58:21,880
Speaker 2: and I just kept going for it. So it was

1057
00:58:21,960 --> 00:58:25,600
Speaker 2: like just vicious. Whoever was next?

1058
00:58:27,560 --> 00:58:31,320
Speaker 1: Okay? Shine was a demo? How many demos did you

1059
00:58:31,400 --> 00:58:34,760
Speaker 1: have to cut before you got to Shine? Uh?

1060
00:58:35,480 --> 00:58:38,200
Speaker 2: Probably one hundred at least.

1061
00:58:39,000 --> 00:58:42,280
Speaker 1: Did you think any of the previous ones were going

1062
00:58:42,320 --> 00:58:45,160
Speaker 1: to be the turning point? Did you think Shine was

1063
00:58:45,200 --> 00:58:46,680
Speaker 1: going to be the turning point? Or it was just

1064
00:58:46,720 --> 00:58:50,000
Speaker 1: an endless you know, as you say, laundry cycle.

1065
00:58:50,480 --> 00:58:52,880
Speaker 2: I thought there were many of them before that. I

1066
00:58:53,000 --> 00:58:56,560
Speaker 2: start I clicked when I was to me I clicked

1067
00:58:56,600 --> 00:58:58,640
Speaker 2: twenty five or twenty six when I felt like I

1068
00:58:58,680 --> 00:59:01,280
Speaker 2: got the writing thing down. I was just a slow learner,

1069
00:59:01,280 --> 00:59:05,080
Speaker 2: but I was working and then songs just started flowing,

1070
00:59:05,640 --> 00:59:09,560
Speaker 2: and I thought there were a lot lot more that

1071
00:59:09,680 --> 00:59:13,440
Speaker 2: I thought would have started a career or me as

1072
00:59:13,480 --> 00:59:17,640
Speaker 2: a songwriter. And then when I did Shine, I did

1073
00:59:17,800 --> 00:59:22,640
Speaker 2: like it. I mean, but I didn't. I didn't hear

1074
00:59:22,680 --> 00:59:25,480
Speaker 2: it is what it became. There was a song called

1075
00:59:25,480 --> 00:59:28,000
Speaker 2: good Night, Good Guy that I thought was the song.

1076
00:59:28,440 --> 00:59:30,040
Speaker 2: And my brother is the one that took it to

1077
00:59:30,440 --> 00:59:33,200
Speaker 2: album eighty eight in Georgia State, and I said, just

1078
00:59:33,240 --> 00:59:35,240
Speaker 2: take take these. It was a cassette. You have one

1079
00:59:35,240 --> 00:59:37,120
Speaker 2: song on one one another said tell them play good

1080
00:59:37,160 --> 00:59:39,480
Speaker 2: Night good Guy. So he took it when he went

1081
00:59:39,480 --> 00:59:42,960
Speaker 2: to class and they played Shine. And then here we

1082
00:59:43,000 --> 00:59:45,600
Speaker 2: are today, you know, thirty one years later.

1083
00:59:45,640 --> 00:59:50,000
Speaker 1: Basically, okay, you were in a band where you had

1084
00:59:50,080 --> 00:59:52,880
Speaker 1: a woman who was the lead singer before that. What

1085
00:59:53,000 --> 00:59:54,000
Speaker 1: happened with that band?

1086
00:59:54,160 --> 00:59:56,240
Speaker 2: Well, we would play as much as it was called

1087
00:59:56,240 --> 00:59:59,880
Speaker 2: Marching two step. And her name is Michelle ray Kaplinger.

1088
01:00:00,520 --> 01:00:04,800
Speaker 2: She's like my sister. We're still tight thicke as these.

1089
01:00:06,000 --> 01:00:09,480
Speaker 2: I think she's head of like the southeast of Grammys. Now.

1090
01:00:09,640 --> 01:00:14,200
Speaker 2: We uh, we didn't know what we're doing. We were

1091
01:00:14,240 --> 01:00:16,680
Speaker 2: just trying to find something. We're trying to find a

1092
01:00:16,840 --> 01:00:19,560
Speaker 2: sound because she kind of came. She was in bands

1093
01:00:19,600 --> 01:00:21,680
Speaker 2: prior to this new wave, and I was kind of

1094
01:00:21,720 --> 01:00:25,320
Speaker 2: like wanting the new wave, but music was changing. I

1095
01:00:25,400 --> 01:00:29,680
Speaker 2: was trying to find a sound that fit what I

1096
01:00:29,760 --> 01:00:33,680
Speaker 2: was comfortable with writing. So, you know it, I think

1097
01:00:33,760 --> 01:00:35,640
Speaker 2: it lasted a year or two, I don't know, but

1098
01:00:35,680 --> 01:00:37,400
Speaker 2: we had a lot of fun and it was just

1099
01:00:37,440 --> 01:00:40,400
Speaker 2: a learning experience. You know, I call it pre production.

1100
01:00:41,080 --> 01:00:43,120
Speaker 2: You know, both bands get signed and they go into

1101
01:00:43,160 --> 01:00:47,320
Speaker 2: pre production. They spend six months just learning to write,

1102
01:00:47,360 --> 01:00:49,280
Speaker 2: recording and all of that. That's kind of what we

1103
01:00:49,280 --> 01:00:52,000
Speaker 2: were doing. We were out on the road doing that band.

1104
01:00:53,680 --> 01:00:57,200
Speaker 1: Okay, when you give your brother that cassette for the

1105
01:00:57,240 --> 01:01:00,880
Speaker 1: college radio station, is there a band?

1106
01:01:02,400 --> 01:01:07,400
Speaker 2: That's honestly a good question that I do not know.

1107
01:01:07,520 --> 01:01:10,480
Speaker 2: I cannot answer that because I don't think there was

1108
01:01:10,520 --> 01:01:15,080
Speaker 2: a band. I don't I don't know. That's a great question.

1109
01:01:15,120 --> 01:01:17,360
Speaker 2: I've never thought about that because it was something that

1110
01:01:17,440 --> 01:01:21,600
Speaker 2: there was Eddie, then there was a rollin, there was

1111
01:01:24,360 --> 01:01:27,640
Speaker 2: brothers and brides, that's interesting. I gotta check that out.

1112
01:01:29,160 --> 01:01:30,280
Speaker 2: That's a great question.

1113
01:01:31,920 --> 01:01:33,800
Speaker 1: Well, who played on that demo?

1114
01:01:35,160 --> 01:01:38,400
Speaker 2: Me? It's all me. The original lead guitarist played the

1115
01:01:38,440 --> 01:01:41,720
Speaker 2: lead guitar, but everything else is me because I was

1116
01:01:41,760 --> 01:01:42,840
Speaker 2: the only one in the studio.

1117
01:01:43,800 --> 01:01:46,120
Speaker 1: Okay, So you give that cassette to your brother?

1118
01:01:46,680 --> 01:01:47,080
Speaker 2: Correct?

1119
01:01:48,640 --> 01:01:51,640
Speaker 1: Had you you know, in this eleven year period, were

1120
01:01:51,640 --> 01:01:54,280
Speaker 1: you working it? Were you giving cassettes to other people,

1121
01:01:54,360 --> 01:01:57,120
Speaker 1: whether it be radio stations, managers trying to make it?

1122
01:01:58,160 --> 01:02:01,520
Speaker 2: Oh? Yeah, I sent it to everybody. I would just

1123
01:02:01,880 --> 01:02:05,480
Speaker 2: once again it was now you got me thinking about

1124
01:02:05,480 --> 01:02:07,800
Speaker 2: the name. I'm wondering if I had the name before

1125
01:02:09,080 --> 01:02:15,000
Speaker 2: because we weren't a band. Then interesting. Oh, I would

1126
01:02:15,040 --> 01:02:18,080
Speaker 2: give cassettes to anybody. I gave one to rick O Kasich.

1127
01:02:18,120 --> 01:02:20,320
Speaker 2: I'm sure he went one hundred yards on the road,

1128
01:02:20,400 --> 01:02:21,960
Speaker 2: rolled the wind down through it out. I gave one

1129
01:02:22,000 --> 01:02:25,840
Speaker 2: to Sting. I mean I would sneak backstage everywhere. I

1130
01:02:25,960 --> 01:02:28,480
Speaker 2: went to New York and snuck into every record label

1131
01:02:28,520 --> 01:02:32,960
Speaker 2: at twenty years old, just lying my way through it

1132
01:02:33,040 --> 01:02:35,040
Speaker 2: and sit there and they listen to it and it

1133
01:02:35,120 --> 01:02:37,840
Speaker 2: was god awful, but they you know, I got in there.

1134
01:02:37,840 --> 01:02:39,520
Speaker 2: I was learning to hustle a little bit.

1135
01:02:41,120 --> 01:02:45,120
Speaker 1: And did you ever have any bites before Shine broke through.

1136
01:02:47,480 --> 01:02:50,560
Speaker 2: Zero? And I had so many? You know, back then

1137
01:02:50,600 --> 01:02:54,280
Speaker 2: they would write you letters back to say we pass

1138
01:02:54,480 --> 01:02:58,400
Speaker 2: you know the letters. And I had some nasty ones

1139
01:02:58,440 --> 01:03:00,360
Speaker 2: a couple of times, and I will not in their

1140
01:03:00,440 --> 01:03:04,919
Speaker 2: names that said please do not ever send me. One

1141
01:03:04,960 --> 01:03:08,800
Speaker 2: said please do not ever send me another piece of

1142
01:03:08,840 --> 01:03:12,080
Speaker 2: your music. You're a horrible songwriter and a horrible singer.

1143
01:03:15,680 --> 01:03:17,160
Speaker 1: Well wasn't that disheartening?

1144
01:03:18,400 --> 01:03:22,000
Speaker 2: Hell No, I went and I proved them wrong.

1145
01:03:22,120 --> 01:03:32,040
Speaker 1: Now, okay, so you give this cassette to your brother.

1146
01:03:32,600 --> 01:03:35,600
Speaker 1: The radio station flips it over, they start playing Shine.

1147
01:03:36,160 --> 01:03:37,560
Speaker 1: How does it build from there?

1148
01:03:38,560 --> 01:03:42,360
Speaker 2: It became their most requested song, and it was I

1149
01:03:42,440 --> 01:03:46,640
Speaker 2: think he took it to like an November or something.

1150
01:03:46,720 --> 01:03:49,760
Speaker 2: And then they called me because I had my probably

1151
01:03:49,800 --> 01:03:51,240
Speaker 2: just set of Roland and now I have my phone

1152
01:03:51,320 --> 01:03:53,680
Speaker 2: number on there, they called me and said that the

1153
01:03:53,760 --> 01:03:57,360
Speaker 2: number one requested a song they want to play at

1154
01:03:57,400 --> 01:04:00,360
Speaker 2: their Christmas party. And it was a big deal. Then

1155
01:04:00,440 --> 01:04:03,040
Speaker 2: it sold out and it's like a thousand people. And

1156
01:04:03,160 --> 01:04:05,800
Speaker 2: my brother and what became Collected Soul. We're in a

1157
01:04:05,840 --> 01:04:09,520
Speaker 2: frat band that played at Georgia State and Georgia Tech.

1158
01:04:10,000 --> 01:04:11,760
Speaker 2: So I called him and I said, hey, guys, just learn

1159
01:04:11,840 --> 01:04:14,360
Speaker 2: I got three songs. Let's learn three originals and we

1160
01:04:14,360 --> 01:04:16,360
Speaker 2: can do the frat stuff. Y'all can do that. I'll

1161
01:04:16,400 --> 01:04:19,280
Speaker 2: walk off stage or whatever. They're like cool. And we

1162
01:04:19,320 --> 01:04:22,400
Speaker 2: got up there and we played one song. Then we

1163
01:04:22,440 --> 01:04:27,080
Speaker 2: played Shine and place went nuts and I just said, hey,

1164
01:04:27,160 --> 01:04:31,479
Speaker 2: let's play that again. I think we played Seine six

1165
01:04:31,520 --> 01:04:35,480
Speaker 2: times that night. I mean, people couldn't get enough of it.

1166
01:04:35,520 --> 01:04:37,680
Speaker 2: I've never seen anything like it, and I've been to

1167
01:04:37,680 --> 01:04:38,440
Speaker 2: a lot of shows.

1168
01:04:38,560 --> 01:04:42,840
Speaker 1: What was the experience like from your viewpoint? Being on stage?

1169
01:04:43,520 --> 01:04:47,480
Speaker 2: Confused? Seriously confused? I was like, what is going on?

1170
01:04:48,120 --> 01:04:51,680
Speaker 2: And I mean every time we played it, they just

1171
01:04:51,680 --> 01:04:55,280
Speaker 2: got nuts. And I was like, good gosh, what's going on?

1172
01:04:57,320 --> 01:05:01,080
Speaker 1: Okay, you play that gig? The college radio station is

1173
01:05:01,120 --> 01:05:03,520
Speaker 1: playing it. What's the next block in the building.

1174
01:05:04,120 --> 01:05:08,600
Speaker 2: Oh w j R in Orlando started playing it?

1175
01:05:09,280 --> 01:05:10,600
Speaker 1: And how did they get it?

1176
01:05:11,440 --> 01:05:13,760
Speaker 2: I sent it to everybody. I sent a CD to

1177
01:05:14,240 --> 01:05:19,360
Speaker 2: cassettes to everybody, uh, manager of producers, like, I literally

1178
01:05:19,440 --> 01:05:21,000
Speaker 2: had a list back of the day. There was a

1179
01:05:21,040 --> 01:05:24,760
Speaker 2: book of people in the industry. I sent it to attorneys.

1180
01:05:25,160 --> 01:05:28,160
Speaker 2: I sent it to business managers. I just sat there

1181
01:05:28,200 --> 01:05:31,880
Speaker 2: and make cassettes all day long and just would ship

1182
01:05:31,920 --> 01:05:34,080
Speaker 2: them out again.

1183
01:05:33,920 --> 01:05:36,760
Speaker 1: With the store with the story that it was number

1184
01:05:36,760 --> 01:05:38,320
Speaker 1: one on this college radio station.

1185
01:05:38,640 --> 01:05:41,880
Speaker 2: Nope, just send them the song. Just send them the cassette.

1186
01:05:42,960 --> 01:05:47,920
Speaker 1: And now a station in Orlando starts playing it serendipitously

1187
01:05:48,040 --> 01:05:51,880
Speaker 1: with no push correct and called it just to go back.

1188
01:05:52,160 --> 01:05:56,920
Speaker 1: There's only two songs on this cassette. Correct, Okay, so

1189
01:05:57,080 --> 01:05:58,320
Speaker 1: Orlando starts.

1190
01:05:58,040 --> 01:06:00,680
Speaker 2: To play there might have been five, might have been five,

1191
01:06:01,680 --> 01:06:04,600
Speaker 2: or it might have been the whole record, just because

1192
01:06:04,960 --> 01:06:06,480
Speaker 2: it might I think. I take it back. I think

1193
01:06:06,480 --> 01:06:08,320
Speaker 2: it was the whole record. I just sit the whole

1194
01:06:08,480 --> 01:06:10,880
Speaker 2: cassette kitt kaboodle because I wanted to showcase that I

1195
01:06:10,880 --> 01:06:15,160
Speaker 2: could write different types of songs. Because the first song

1196
01:06:15,280 --> 01:06:18,400
Speaker 2: is to me, very not coordinated. First album, I should

1197
01:06:18,440 --> 01:06:20,360
Speaker 2: say it's not very coordated because you can see I'm

1198
01:06:20,360 --> 01:06:25,160
Speaker 2: trying to write country a little bit here there, Americana, rock, grunge, whatever. Anyway,

1199
01:06:25,680 --> 01:06:27,440
Speaker 2: So if they start playing and they call and they

1200
01:06:27,440 --> 01:06:28,720
Speaker 2: want us to come down and do a show, and

1201
01:06:28,720 --> 01:06:30,320
Speaker 2: it's like, so I get the guys again, and we

1202
01:06:30,360 --> 01:06:32,160
Speaker 2: rehearsed a little bit. This time we had a thirty

1203
01:06:32,200 --> 01:06:35,080
Speaker 2: minute run we could do and you know, if had

1204
01:06:35,120 --> 01:06:38,800
Speaker 2: do covers, they could do it. And we get down

1205
01:06:38,840 --> 01:06:41,640
Speaker 2: there and I know if we were driving down there

1206
01:06:41,680 --> 01:06:44,800
Speaker 2: and they go, you know, they're top five at five.

1207
01:06:45,040 --> 01:06:48,160
Speaker 2: You know, it was like STP, Pearl, Jam Kings X,

1208
01:06:48,800 --> 01:06:53,160
Speaker 2: Nirvana and number one some band called Collective Soul out

1209
01:06:53,200 --> 01:06:55,520
Speaker 2: of Atlanta, Georgia. And we all looked at each other,

1210
01:06:55,600 --> 01:06:58,880
Speaker 2: going what is going on? Most requested, so I pulled

1211
01:06:58,880 --> 01:07:02,440
Speaker 2: the van over once again. My parents van pulled the

1212
01:07:02,480 --> 01:07:04,760
Speaker 2: van over. I was like, we all just sat there.

1213
01:07:04,800 --> 01:07:06,640
Speaker 2: We got out and just looked like what is going on?

1214
01:07:06,760 --> 01:07:10,240
Speaker 2: Especially for me, they're exciting because they're twenty years old.

1215
01:07:10,360 --> 01:07:12,440
Speaker 2: The rest of the guys in the band, they're like,

1216
01:07:12,680 --> 01:07:13,440
Speaker 2: this is awesome.

1217
01:07:13,640 --> 01:07:13,880
Speaker 3: You know.

1218
01:07:14,960 --> 01:07:16,840
Speaker 2: I was like, what is going on? So we show

1219
01:07:16,960 --> 01:07:18,800
Speaker 2: up and it was like the Beatles showed up. We

1220
01:07:18,800 --> 01:07:22,200
Speaker 2: were like, what is going on? It was just very confusing,

1221
01:07:22,680 --> 01:07:25,960
Speaker 2: and then that night we got signed somebody from Jason

1222
01:07:25,960 --> 01:07:29,960
Speaker 2: Flom from Atlantic Records, flew down and it was done.

1223
01:07:31,800 --> 01:07:37,160
Speaker 1: Okay, once again you ship the CDs and did nothing else,

1224
01:07:37,480 --> 01:07:40,920
Speaker 1: and radio just started to play it from an unsolicitously.

1225
01:07:41,400 --> 01:07:45,000
Speaker 2: I would call them. I personally would call them, and

1226
01:07:45,040 --> 01:07:47,560
Speaker 2: then because I remember, I called a place in New

1227
01:07:47,600 --> 01:07:50,040
Speaker 2: Mexico because I had once again there was a book

1228
01:07:50,640 --> 01:07:52,000
Speaker 2: that I had. So I would sit there on the

1229
01:07:52,000 --> 01:07:54,720
Speaker 2: phone and call and say, Hey, I'm a Collective soul

1230
01:07:55,600 --> 01:07:57,920
Speaker 2: and I was wondering if you could play that, and

1231
01:07:57,920 --> 01:07:59,600
Speaker 2: he goes, We've been playing it. He goes, I can't

1232
01:07:59,600 --> 01:08:02,600
Speaker 2: believe you called, because you know that's the radio department's

1233
01:08:02,720 --> 01:08:05,720
Speaker 2: job to do, you know, radio promo. I was like, yeah,

1234
01:08:05,800 --> 01:08:08,520
Speaker 2: he goes, we do an interview. I was like, sure,

1235
01:08:08,680 --> 01:08:10,240
Speaker 2: I don't know what I'm gonna talk about, you know,

1236
01:08:10,440 --> 01:08:14,240
Speaker 2: like I didn't know what was going on, and uh.

1237
01:08:14,840 --> 01:08:17,360
Speaker 2: And I called one station was based out of a

1238
01:08:17,400 --> 01:08:21,599
Speaker 2: pool haul somewhere, and the guy just flipped out. He's like, dude,

1239
01:08:22,560 --> 01:08:25,240
Speaker 2: this is the best song ever. Hey, We're gonna do

1240
01:08:25,280 --> 01:08:30,200
Speaker 2: an interview in five four three two one. I'm like, hey,

1241
01:08:30,400 --> 01:08:30,920
Speaker 2: I'm ed.

1242
01:08:35,520 --> 01:08:41,480
Speaker 1: Okay. So when Jason Flomm's person comes down.

1243
01:08:41,439 --> 01:08:42,599
Speaker 2: No, Jason came down.

1244
01:08:42,840 --> 01:08:47,120
Speaker 1: Jason came down. Was he the first person from a

1245
01:08:47,160 --> 01:08:48,759
Speaker 1: record company who showed interest?

1246
01:08:49,439 --> 01:08:52,519
Speaker 2: No. We actually had four calls in one day, and

1247
01:08:52,560 --> 01:08:56,160
Speaker 2: my manager said we're going with Atlantic with Jason Flohm

1248
01:08:56,760 --> 01:08:58,960
Speaker 2: because they called first. I was like, that doesn't make

1249
01:08:59,000 --> 01:09:02,400
Speaker 2: good business news. Say called first, does it? He goes, Nope,

1250
01:09:02,439 --> 01:09:05,160
Speaker 2: it's done. I was like, okay. So Jason came down

1251
01:09:05,200 --> 01:09:07,559
Speaker 2: and they flew us to New York, you know the

1252
01:09:07,600 --> 01:09:10,760
Speaker 2: old rock and roll story, you know, wined and dined us,

1253
01:09:10,800 --> 01:09:12,439
Speaker 2: and I was just like, I didn't know what was

1254
01:09:12,479 --> 01:09:16,840
Speaker 2: going on. It was just like over the moon and

1255
01:09:16,880 --> 01:09:18,640
Speaker 2: it was. But it was funny because I got to

1256
01:09:18,680 --> 01:09:22,120
Speaker 2: tell Ergon that I had snuck into his office to

1257
01:09:22,160 --> 01:09:27,360
Speaker 2: meet him at that time, about fifteen years earlier, to

1258
01:09:27,640 --> 01:09:29,920
Speaker 2: play him something. And he was very kind and listened

1259
01:09:29,920 --> 01:09:31,560
Speaker 2: to it and told me to keep working, which I

1260
01:09:31,600 --> 01:09:35,679
Speaker 2: thought was kind of cool. Cycle in life or whatever.

1261
01:09:36,280 --> 01:09:38,160
Speaker 2: He liked it. He was a good man.

1262
01:09:38,920 --> 01:09:44,240
Speaker 1: Okay, so you play this gig in Orlando, you make

1263
01:09:44,320 --> 01:09:47,920
Speaker 1: a deal with Atlantic. How long after that did they

1264
01:09:48,000 --> 01:09:49,520
Speaker 1: push the button? Unshine?

1265
01:09:49,840 --> 01:09:52,439
Speaker 2: Oh, it was pushed. We already charted on our own.

1266
01:09:52,560 --> 01:09:54,760
Speaker 2: We didn't know what was going like. Literally, we were

1267
01:09:54,840 --> 01:09:59,360
Speaker 2: top forty in rock radio for sure before Atlantic signed.

1268
01:09:59,439 --> 01:10:03,120
Speaker 2: And then we he thought, Okay, it's not a band,

1269
01:10:03,120 --> 01:10:05,080
Speaker 2: it's a batch of demos that I had been doing

1270
01:10:05,120 --> 01:10:08,400
Speaker 2: over the last five seven years. We thought we were

1271
01:10:08,400 --> 01:10:12,280
Speaker 2: going to go make a record and they were like, nope,

1272
01:10:12,439 --> 01:10:14,519
Speaker 2: y'all are out. And the first thing they do is

1273
01:10:14,520 --> 01:10:18,360
Speaker 2: they put us at Woodstock ninety four, and then a

1274
01:10:18,400 --> 01:10:20,800
Speaker 2: week after that, we're on tour with Errol Smith and

1275
01:10:20,840 --> 01:10:24,400
Speaker 2: we're like, I mean literally, I think we did three

1276
01:10:25,040 --> 01:10:28,920
Speaker 2: shows before Woodstock, which was in front of god knows

1277
01:10:28,920 --> 01:10:32,760
Speaker 2: how many people, and then a week later we're out

1278
01:10:32,800 --> 01:10:35,240
Speaker 2: with Erol Smith. We're like, what is going on? It

1279
01:10:35,360 --> 01:10:36,320
Speaker 2: was just that fast?

1280
01:10:37,360 --> 01:10:39,880
Speaker 1: So what was it like playing Woodstock ninety four?

1281
01:10:40,240 --> 01:10:43,120
Speaker 2: Loved it, every minute of it. Everybody that was there

1282
01:10:43,280 --> 01:10:49,479
Speaker 2: was great. Everybody the night we played like Sheryl Crow Live,

1283
01:10:49,640 --> 01:10:55,640
Speaker 2: everybody was new and they, you know, were just to

1284
01:10:57,120 --> 01:10:59,360
Speaker 2: surprise what was going on with their life and their

1285
01:10:59,400 --> 01:11:02,080
Speaker 2: success we were. So it was kind of a therapy

1286
01:11:02,120 --> 01:11:04,880
Speaker 2: moment for some of these bands. Together. We were like, man,

1287
01:11:04,960 --> 01:11:07,599
Speaker 2: can you what what is? This is great, but like,

1288
01:11:07,680 --> 01:11:11,479
Speaker 2: how did this happen? You know? A month ago, I'm

1289
01:11:11,479 --> 01:11:14,400
Speaker 2: in my parents' basement rehearsing, and now I'm sitting here

1290
01:11:14,439 --> 01:11:18,479
Speaker 2: with Sheryl cru and Live and Blues Travelers. I'm like,

1291
01:11:18,600 --> 01:11:19,599
Speaker 2: what is going on?

1292
01:11:20,600 --> 01:11:22,400
Speaker 1: And at what point did they make the video?

1293
01:11:26,000 --> 01:11:29,160
Speaker 2: The week after we signed, We just did it, and

1294
01:11:29,200 --> 01:11:31,000
Speaker 2: we did it in Atlanta. I was like, there's some

1295
01:11:31,080 --> 01:11:33,320
Speaker 2: train tracks and a worn out building over here, so

1296
01:11:33,360 --> 01:11:35,519
Speaker 2: they were like okay, and you didn't have to back

1297
01:11:35,560 --> 01:11:37,599
Speaker 2: then in Atlanta. You didn't have to pay for permits

1298
01:11:37,680 --> 01:11:40,479
Speaker 2: or anything like that, so it was cheap.

1299
01:11:42,080 --> 01:11:44,720
Speaker 1: So by time you take the stage at Woodstock ninety four,

1300
01:11:44,880 --> 01:11:46,439
Speaker 1: is MTV play in the video?

1301
01:11:46,600 --> 01:11:48,200
Speaker 2: Yes? And it was our I think it was number

1302
01:11:48,240 --> 01:11:49,560
Speaker 2: one at that point.

1303
01:11:49,800 --> 01:11:52,760
Speaker 1: So you're backstage with all these happening people. Do they

1304
01:11:52,840 --> 01:11:55,040
Speaker 1: recognize you? Do they know who you are? No?

1305
01:11:55,200 --> 01:11:57,800
Speaker 2: No, because they were as busy as we were. I

1306
01:11:57,800 --> 01:12:00,200
Speaker 2: wouldn't have you know, they were just out early and

1307
01:12:00,280 --> 01:12:02,720
Speaker 2: we were, you know, they had records out earlier. But

1308
01:12:03,000 --> 01:12:07,559
Speaker 2: now actually we were following Kings acts because we're huge fans.

1309
01:12:08,360 --> 01:12:11,920
Speaker 2: And finally they turned around. Doug turned around and says,

1310
01:12:12,920 --> 01:12:15,599
Speaker 2: what do y'all want? And we're like, we're just fans, man,

1311
01:12:15,640 --> 01:12:19,479
Speaker 2: we just want to say and they were so sweet,

1312
01:12:19,960 --> 01:12:22,200
Speaker 2: but we were just naive. We didn't know what was

1313
01:12:22,240 --> 01:12:22,680
Speaker 2: going on.

1314
01:12:23,960 --> 01:12:25,760
Speaker 1: And then what was the tour with Aerosmith?

1315
01:12:25,920 --> 01:12:30,200
Speaker 2: Like it was great? It was once again we're just

1316
01:12:30,320 --> 01:12:33,360
Speaker 2: trying to get our feet on land. It was everything

1317
01:12:33,439 --> 01:12:36,160
Speaker 2: was happening so fast. But they were extremely nice and

1318
01:12:36,840 --> 01:12:42,040
Speaker 2: extremely just cordial. I mean, we stayed out of the way.

1319
01:12:42,120 --> 01:12:45,400
Speaker 2: I think we were just so scared of them because

1320
01:12:45,400 --> 01:12:47,479
Speaker 2: we didn't know how this works. You know, We've never

1321
01:12:47,520 --> 01:12:50,479
Speaker 2: been on a arena tour and never been on an

1322
01:12:50,479 --> 01:12:53,439
Speaker 2: arena stage, and all of a sudden, here we are.

1323
01:12:53,960 --> 01:12:55,639
Speaker 2: So we kind of just stayed out of their way.

1324
01:12:55,680 --> 01:12:58,240
Speaker 2: But they were extremely cordial and nice.

1325
01:12:59,560 --> 01:13:02,880
Speaker 1: So how how long after at Lenox signed you do

1326
01:13:02,960 --> 01:13:06,120
Speaker 1: you start thinking about the second record and when do

1327
01:13:06,200 --> 01:13:07,240
Speaker 1: you start making that?

1328
01:13:08,240 --> 01:13:11,080
Speaker 2: We started immediately because once again we felt like that

1329
01:13:11,240 --> 01:13:15,519
Speaker 2: wasn't a true representation of what we weren't event I mean,

1330
01:13:15,560 --> 01:13:19,360
Speaker 2: we were just learning whatever we could. So I would

1331
01:13:19,360 --> 01:13:24,719
Speaker 2: write during the day and during sound checks we would

1332
01:13:25,360 --> 01:13:28,400
Speaker 2: play it, learn it, play it that night. Some of

1333
01:13:28,400 --> 01:13:30,559
Speaker 2: the lyrics would be done, some wouldn't be done, and

1334
01:13:30,600 --> 01:13:33,120
Speaker 2: then any day off we had we would go into

1335
01:13:33,160 --> 01:13:35,679
Speaker 2: the studio. So it was recorded all over the place,

1336
01:13:35,760 --> 01:13:38,960
Speaker 2: kind of just haphazardly wherever we could find a studio

1337
01:13:39,000 --> 01:13:41,400
Speaker 2: when we're off, and that's how we recorded. I mean,

1338
01:13:41,439 --> 01:13:43,519
Speaker 2: the second one came out eight months after the first

1339
01:13:43,560 --> 01:13:46,880
Speaker 2: one was released, and during that time we probably did

1340
01:13:47,720 --> 01:13:51,280
Speaker 2: at least one hundred and twenty shows and made a

1341
01:13:51,320 --> 01:13:52,479
Speaker 2: record in eight months.

1342
01:13:53,000 --> 01:13:56,040
Speaker 1: So how do you meet Matsroletk and how does he

1343
01:13:56,120 --> 01:13:56,839
Speaker 1: get involved?

1344
01:13:58,280 --> 01:14:01,200
Speaker 2: I knew Matt when I was at studio. His jazz

1345
01:14:01,240 --> 01:14:04,080
Speaker 2: band came in and I would record, and he and

1346
01:14:04,120 --> 01:14:07,000
Speaker 2: I just struck it up, like because he's such a

1347
01:14:08,040 --> 01:14:10,960
Speaker 2: pure talent and he loved music and wanted to be

1348
01:14:11,040 --> 01:14:16,040
Speaker 2: involved so in anything. And I don't know, it's just

1349
01:14:16,640 --> 01:14:19,640
Speaker 2: you know, you have those friendships, that connection, and our

1350
01:14:19,640 --> 01:14:23,479
Speaker 2: connection was we had the same type humor, We enjoyed

1351
01:14:23,520 --> 01:14:26,000
Speaker 2: hanging out with each other, and we loved music. He

1352
01:14:26,120 --> 01:14:29,639
Speaker 2: was very similar to me, like he couldn't absorb enough music.

1353
01:14:30,400 --> 01:14:33,480
Speaker 2: So he went off to the University of Miami and graduated.

1354
01:14:34,479 --> 01:14:37,080
Speaker 2: And during that time I kept working and I I

1355
01:14:37,160 --> 01:14:40,240
Speaker 2: just knew I would always work. I trusted Matt. I

1356
01:14:40,280 --> 01:14:42,439
Speaker 2: still do. I would love to work with him again.

1357
01:14:43,240 --> 01:14:48,920
Speaker 2: I just knew what he was capable of and his talent,

1358
01:14:49,280 --> 01:14:51,479
Speaker 2: and like I said, more importantly, I just trusted him

1359
01:14:51,479 --> 01:14:55,479
Speaker 2: and everything and in my vision of collectivesault, like I

1360
01:14:55,479 --> 01:14:57,320
Speaker 2: would say this, he goes, well, how does that work.

1361
01:14:57,360 --> 01:14:58,800
Speaker 2: I was like, I don't know, let's figure it out,

1362
01:14:58,880 --> 01:15:02,200
Speaker 2: let's go for it. So it was fun.

1363
01:15:03,400 --> 01:15:06,559
Speaker 1: Did you have any trouble convincing Atlantic to let you

1364
01:15:06,680 --> 01:15:09,799
Speaker 1: co produce the album with Matt?

1365
01:15:10,840 --> 01:15:13,879
Speaker 2: No, I mean basically, I just I just did everything.

1366
01:15:14,600 --> 01:15:17,120
Speaker 2: I mean, I'm the one that produced it. Just allowed

1367
01:15:17,160 --> 01:15:19,920
Speaker 2: Matt to co produce because I wanted him around, because

1368
01:15:19,960 --> 01:15:24,360
Speaker 2: I trusted him so much. No, they didn't care. They never.

1369
01:15:24,640 --> 01:15:27,479
Speaker 2: They never said a word. They never. They never even

1370
01:15:27,560 --> 01:15:29,120
Speaker 2: knew and made a record. To be honest with you,

1371
01:15:29,520 --> 01:15:31,559
Speaker 2: I just show up in New York and say, hey,

1372
01:15:31,600 --> 01:15:33,200
Speaker 2: we just made a record. They go, oh my god,

1373
01:15:33,240 --> 01:15:35,320
Speaker 2: we're going to make our second quarter. I was like,

1374
01:15:35,520 --> 01:15:36,320
Speaker 2: what are you talking.

1375
01:15:36,080 --> 01:15:41,040
Speaker 1: About, Let's go back to shine. Was that something you

1376
01:15:41,200 --> 01:15:44,200
Speaker 1: just got inspired on or was it something that you

1377
01:15:44,360 --> 01:15:46,639
Speaker 1: built over months or weeks or whatever.

1378
01:15:47,520 --> 01:15:50,640
Speaker 2: No, I was I was writing a lot. This is

1379
01:15:50,720 --> 01:15:53,320
Speaker 2: like nineteen eighty eight. I was writing a lot on droning.

1380
01:15:53,439 --> 01:15:56,439
Speaker 2: You know, he droned the A and play melodies underneath

1381
01:15:56,479 --> 01:15:59,840
Speaker 2: it and come home and see Mom and Dad and

1382
01:16:00,160 --> 01:16:01,920
Speaker 2: Deane was in the house and he was playing guitar

1383
01:16:02,000 --> 01:16:04,320
Speaker 2: and I didn't know he played guitar. I'm like, cool.

1384
01:16:04,560 --> 01:16:07,639
Speaker 2: So I grabbed There were guitars in the house all over,

1385
01:16:08,320 --> 01:16:09,920
Speaker 2: so I grabbed one and was like, check this out.

1386
01:16:09,920 --> 01:16:12,160
Speaker 2: And I was showing how different risks and drones, and

1387
01:16:12,160 --> 01:16:15,720
Speaker 2: he goes, oh, I like that one, you know. Don no, no, no,

1388
01:16:15,840 --> 01:16:18,120
Speaker 2: you know Sean Riff. I said, yeah, man, I don't

1389
01:16:18,120 --> 01:16:20,479
Speaker 2: have anything else. But I said, give me a second,

1390
01:16:20,520 --> 01:16:22,200
Speaker 2: let's see what I can figure out here. And so

1391
01:16:22,240 --> 01:16:24,160
Speaker 2: I just sat right there and wrote it right in

1392
01:16:24,160 --> 01:16:27,160
Speaker 2: front of him. And it was that simple.

1393
01:16:28,720 --> 01:16:30,840
Speaker 1: But you wrote it in nineteen eighty eight and it

1394
01:16:30,880 --> 01:16:32,639
Speaker 1: didn't come out till ninety ninety four.

1395
01:16:32,880 --> 01:16:36,400
Speaker 2: Mm hmm. Yeah. Like I said, there were there are

1396
01:16:36,439 --> 01:16:39,320
Speaker 2: a lot of songs I recorded and wrote before all

1397
01:16:39,479 --> 01:16:40,240
Speaker 2: this happened.

1398
01:16:41,200 --> 01:16:43,320
Speaker 1: Okay, So why did you put it on the cassette

1399
01:16:43,360 --> 01:16:44,800
Speaker 1: that you gave to your brother if it was a

1400
01:16:44,840 --> 01:16:45,800
Speaker 1: six year old song?

1401
01:16:46,520 --> 01:16:48,439
Speaker 2: Oh? Because I didn't record it till then I wrote it.

1402
01:16:48,760 --> 01:16:51,280
Speaker 2: But I just, oh, yeah, I had the idea. So

1403
01:16:51,360 --> 01:16:54,439
Speaker 2: I wrote it that night, and then when ground started hitting,

1404
01:16:54,479 --> 01:16:55,960
Speaker 2: I was like, well, I can make that kind of

1405
01:16:56,000 --> 01:16:59,040
Speaker 2: grungy sound and you know that no no, no, no, no

1406
01:16:58,880 --> 01:17:01,840
Speaker 2: no no no no no no huh.

1407
01:17:02,120 --> 01:17:05,760
Speaker 1: Okay. So in the follow up album. You know, you

1408
01:17:05,840 --> 01:17:08,680
Speaker 1: have two huge tracks, the World, I Know in December.

1409
01:17:09,760 --> 01:17:10,920
Speaker 1: How were those written?

1410
01:17:13,439 --> 01:17:14,920
Speaker 2: World? I know? I wrote when I was in New

1411
01:17:15,000 --> 01:17:21,800
Speaker 2: York impressing my ex wife. It's the first time she'd

1412
01:17:21,800 --> 01:17:25,160
Speaker 2: come out on the road, and I was like, you know,

1413
01:17:25,320 --> 01:17:26,760
Speaker 2: just trying to impress her. I said, I'm going to

1414
01:17:26,800 --> 01:17:29,479
Speaker 2: walk around New York for an hour, say if I

1415
01:17:29,479 --> 01:17:31,320
Speaker 2: can come up with some kind of visual what I

1416
01:17:31,320 --> 01:17:34,439
Speaker 2: want to write about. And back then New York hadn't

1417
01:17:34,479 --> 01:17:36,640
Speaker 2: been cleaned up yet, so you'd walk around and you

1418
01:17:36,760 --> 01:17:40,880
Speaker 2: see people in the cardboard homes and you'd see people

1419
01:17:40,960 --> 01:17:43,840
Speaker 2: and fur coats and limousines back then, not the big

1420
01:17:43,880 --> 01:17:47,200
Speaker 2: black SUVs. And I was like, well, I know, like

1421
01:17:47,280 --> 01:17:49,720
Speaker 2: the yen and yang of life. So I just went

1422
01:17:49,760 --> 01:17:52,760
Speaker 2: back in and sat right there and Strum didn't wrote

1423
01:17:52,800 --> 01:17:57,240
Speaker 2: it out. And then December is the only song that

1424
01:17:57,680 --> 01:18:00,000
Speaker 2: we ever disagreed as a band because I wrote it

1425
01:18:00,040 --> 01:18:02,760
Speaker 2: one morning before the guys came in. So I was

1426
01:18:02,840 --> 01:18:05,880
Speaker 2: listening to some XTC song and it was the same

1427
01:18:06,320 --> 01:18:08,640
Speaker 2: progression over and over, but it was so creative how

1428
01:18:08,640 --> 01:18:11,240
Speaker 2: they brought different melodies in. So I was like, I

1429
01:18:11,240 --> 01:18:13,679
Speaker 2: want to write a song like that. Intertwines different melodies,

1430
01:18:13,720 --> 01:18:16,800
Speaker 2: but the same chord progression the whole time, trying to

1431
01:18:16,880 --> 01:18:20,960
Speaker 2: challenge myself as a songwriter. And the only problem is

1432
01:18:20,960 --> 01:18:24,439
Speaker 2: when you play it for somebody, it's the four Court.

1433
01:18:24,479 --> 01:18:26,599
Speaker 2: If you don't hear the other melodies that are in there,

1434
01:18:27,160 --> 01:18:29,679
Speaker 2: it's four minutes of the same chord progression, and I'll

1435
01:18:29,720 --> 01:18:31,799
Speaker 2: never forget. The guys are like, that's the most boring

1436
01:18:31,800 --> 01:18:33,519
Speaker 2: shit I've ever heard in my life. I was like,

1437
01:18:33,560 --> 01:18:36,000
Speaker 2: hold on, hold on, there's other melodies in here. There's

1438
01:18:36,040 --> 01:18:38,760
Speaker 2: other melodies in here. They're like, we're not recording that.

1439
01:18:38,880 --> 01:18:41,600
Speaker 2: It was like, yes, we are. I hear it. I

1440
01:18:41,640 --> 01:18:44,240
Speaker 2: know it's gonna work. So that's the only song ever

1441
01:18:44,320 --> 01:18:47,720
Speaker 2: that they've ever like adamant, and I was at them.

1442
01:18:47,720 --> 01:18:51,080
Speaker 2: We've had disagreements on other songs. They will say, you know,

1443
01:18:51,160 --> 01:18:53,000
Speaker 2: it's not as strong as I think you can do it,

1444
01:18:53,040 --> 01:18:57,040
Speaker 2: and I'll go, I get that, and but this one

1445
01:18:57,080 --> 01:18:59,559
Speaker 2: was the only one where I put my foot down.

1446
01:18:59,560 --> 01:19:10,120
Speaker 2: I guess.

1447
01:19:07,400 --> 01:19:10,360
Speaker 1: Okay. So you have this song from nineteen eighty eight,

1448
01:19:10,439 --> 01:19:14,600
Speaker 1: it becomes a worldwide smash. Now you make another record,

1449
01:19:15,120 --> 01:19:19,679
Speaker 1: do you expect this level of success again? And when

1450
01:19:19,720 --> 01:19:23,640
Speaker 1: you have these you know, two successful tracks. Do you

1451
01:19:23,680 --> 01:19:25,920
Speaker 1: say to me and I'm God? Or what's going through

1452
01:19:25,920 --> 01:19:26,360
Speaker 1: your head?

1453
01:19:27,200 --> 01:19:29,479
Speaker 2: No? When we finished the record, once again, we were

1454
01:19:29,560 --> 01:19:31,720
Speaker 2: really set. We looked at each other and we're all like,

1455
01:19:32,640 --> 01:19:36,559
Speaker 2: you know, good job, you know, and now it's out

1456
01:19:36,560 --> 01:19:38,400
Speaker 2: of our hands at this point, but if it's left

1457
01:19:38,439 --> 01:19:41,240
Speaker 2: in ours. We were proud. It was a proud moment

1458
01:19:41,320 --> 01:19:46,400
Speaker 2: for us. I would be lying if I didn't. Yeah,

1459
01:19:46,760 --> 01:19:49,080
Speaker 2: we expected it to do well, We really did. We

1460
01:19:49,120 --> 01:19:53,240
Speaker 2: felt that confident and the songs and we felt that

1461
01:19:53,320 --> 01:19:58,040
Speaker 2: confident in the generation, the momentum that was going with

1462
01:19:58,120 --> 01:20:03,200
Speaker 2: us at that moment. So yeah, we saw no end

1463
01:20:03,240 --> 01:20:06,599
Speaker 2: in sight, which is a beautiful thing because we still

1464
01:20:06,640 --> 01:20:09,400
Speaker 2: don't thirty years later. We just don't.

1465
01:20:10,439 --> 01:20:15,120
Speaker 1: Okay, So you have this gigantic success as you continue

1466
01:20:15,160 --> 01:20:19,639
Speaker 1: to make records with Atlantic, you don't reach those peaks. Again,

1467
01:20:19,800 --> 01:20:21,800
Speaker 1: what's going through your head?

1468
01:20:22,200 --> 01:20:25,160
Speaker 2: Nothing? I thought they were great records, and you just

1469
01:20:25,960 --> 01:20:28,440
Speaker 2: you know, there was a point where I thought Atlantic

1470
01:20:28,520 --> 01:20:30,760
Speaker 2: wasn't paying attention to us, which they never did because

1471
01:20:30,760 --> 01:20:32,920
Speaker 2: who were self sufficient? You know, they, like I said,

1472
01:20:32,960 --> 01:20:35,320
Speaker 2: they never knew we made a record. No A and

1473
01:20:35,439 --> 01:20:39,080
Speaker 2: R person ever stepped in the studio nobody. We just

1474
01:20:39,200 --> 01:20:41,240
Speaker 2: went made records and we presented to them, so there

1475
01:20:41,240 --> 01:20:44,680
Speaker 2: was no cheerleading. And I get that now now I

1476
01:20:44,720 --> 01:20:47,520
Speaker 2: know how the whole thing works. There was nobody cheerleading

1477
01:20:47,520 --> 01:20:51,080
Speaker 2: for us. We just went and made records and somehow,

1478
01:20:51,360 --> 01:20:56,200
Speaker 2: knock on wood, people accepted the songs and they were successful.

1479
01:20:56,760 --> 01:20:58,519
Speaker 2: And once again you can get caught up in that

1480
01:20:58,600 --> 01:21:02,760
Speaker 2: rabbit hole to meh, we sold a million, why didn't

1481
01:21:02,760 --> 01:21:05,960
Speaker 2: we sell a million? One? Once again, to me, the

1482
01:21:06,080 --> 01:21:08,760
Speaker 2: success is when all five of us look at each

1483
01:21:08,800 --> 01:21:12,719
Speaker 2: other and go, that's that's pretty darn good, guys, that's great,

1484
01:21:13,120 --> 01:21:17,040
Speaker 2: let's let's go. So I don't. I don't put emphasis

1485
01:21:17,040 --> 01:21:22,960
Speaker 2: on numbers unless it comes to uh engineering, make sure

1486
01:21:23,000 --> 01:21:26,439
Speaker 2: the plane flies correctly or the lawn war doesn't fly

1487
01:21:26,520 --> 01:21:29,040
Speaker 2: off the handle or something like that. But like I

1488
01:21:29,080 --> 01:21:36,280
Speaker 2: can't when it comes to artistic things, it's you know, why,

1489
01:21:36,280 --> 01:21:38,920
Speaker 2: why why does a Picasso cost so much? I mean,

1490
01:21:39,439 --> 01:21:42,439
Speaker 2: I don't know. I used to say there's another artist

1491
01:21:42,520 --> 01:21:47,360
Speaker 2: that doesn't shouldn't be there, I mean, just because it

1492
01:21:47,400 --> 01:21:48,719
Speaker 2: puts the air somewhere different.

1493
01:21:49,520 --> 01:21:52,160
Speaker 1: To be fair to say that you believe on your

1494
01:21:52,240 --> 01:21:56,040
Speaker 1: later Atlantic records that there were songs that would have

1495
01:21:56,080 --> 01:21:59,679
Speaker 1: been more commercially successful if the label had worked harder

1496
01:21:59,760 --> 01:22:00,200
Speaker 1: on them.

1497
01:22:05,200 --> 01:22:07,559
Speaker 2: I mean literally, you got to the point they didn't

1498
01:22:07,560 --> 01:22:09,519
Speaker 2: even pay attention to us. There was just there was

1499
01:22:09,560 --> 01:22:13,400
Speaker 2: no effort whatsoever, which led to us wanting to become

1500
01:22:13,400 --> 01:22:16,000
Speaker 2: independent because I went up and spoke to him about

1501
01:22:16,040 --> 01:22:18,559
Speaker 2: that that issue. And this was during the time when

1502
01:22:19,479 --> 01:22:22,720
Speaker 2: Metallica and Napster were going at it, and I'll never

1503
01:22:22,720 --> 01:22:25,639
Speaker 2: forget I was talking to the president of Atlantic. I'll

1504
01:22:25,640 --> 01:22:27,920
Speaker 2: never forget this conversation. So I was like, he goes, no,

1505
01:22:27,960 --> 01:22:29,479
Speaker 2: he love you, We love you. I was like, well,

1506
01:22:29,920 --> 01:22:32,040
Speaker 2: you don't even have the CDs and stock when we

1507
01:22:32,080 --> 01:22:34,800
Speaker 2: go play these shows. We're doing these shows, y'all aren't

1508
01:22:34,840 --> 01:22:38,920
Speaker 2: filling the bins. I said, nobody's there to just say hey,

1509
01:22:39,400 --> 01:22:42,840
Speaker 2: you know, which is fine. You need your You need

1510
01:22:42,880 --> 01:22:46,000
Speaker 2: to know you're loved at some point or liked at least.

1511
01:22:46,040 --> 01:22:49,400
Speaker 2: We didn't get any of the above. But when I

1512
01:22:49,400 --> 01:22:51,519
Speaker 2: asked him about what's going on with this digital thing,

1513
01:22:51,600 --> 01:22:53,439
Speaker 2: you know, Napster and stuff, and he threw his hands

1514
01:22:53,439 --> 01:22:55,439
Speaker 2: in the air and he goes, ah, that's going to

1515
01:22:55,520 --> 01:23:00,760
Speaker 2: go away. I I literally excuse my self and called

1516
01:23:00,800 --> 01:23:03,040
Speaker 2: my attorney and said, I want off this record label

1517
01:23:03,160 --> 01:23:06,719
Speaker 2: now because that was That's that just showed where they

1518
01:23:06,840 --> 01:23:10,360
Speaker 2: just didn't. They just weren't paying attention. And I have

1519
01:23:10,439 --> 01:23:13,400
Speaker 2: no problem saying that they they were not paying attention

1520
01:23:13,880 --> 01:23:15,720
Speaker 2: at all.

1521
01:23:15,880 --> 01:23:18,080
Speaker 1: And did you consider trying to get a deal with

1522
01:23:18,120 --> 01:23:19,200
Speaker 1: another major label.

1523
01:23:19,479 --> 01:23:24,160
Speaker 2: No, because we had and the guys were really supportive.

1524
01:23:24,800 --> 01:23:27,720
Speaker 2: We had. We made a change in line up a

1525
01:23:27,800 --> 01:23:34,200
Speaker 2: couple of guys. I felt that we had a brand,

1526
01:23:34,439 --> 01:23:38,920
Speaker 2: which I'm very grateful to Atlantic for helping create. It

1527
01:23:39,000 --> 01:23:40,760
Speaker 2: wasn't as strong a brand as it should have been

1528
01:23:40,800 --> 01:23:43,040
Speaker 2: and could have been, and what we were striving for

1529
01:23:43,080 --> 01:23:45,640
Speaker 2: it to be. But we had a brand, and I

1530
01:23:45,720 --> 01:23:47,680
Speaker 2: was like, now, let's go take care of this and

1531
01:23:47,720 --> 01:23:51,439
Speaker 2: do it ourselves. So we became the first true band

1532
01:23:51,479 --> 01:23:55,559
Speaker 2: to get off label to go be independent when everybody

1533
01:23:55,560 --> 01:23:58,519
Speaker 2: thought we were nuts, which we could be. I don't know,

1534
01:23:59,040 --> 01:24:06,720
Speaker 2: I just it was just the right timing and the

1535
01:24:06,840 --> 01:24:10,479
Speaker 2: change in the music industry. You could see it coming

1536
01:24:10,520 --> 01:24:13,719
Speaker 2: to miles and miles away, but nobody in the music

1537
01:24:13,800 --> 01:24:17,880
Speaker 2: industry could see it coming. It was just weird.

1538
01:24:18,760 --> 01:24:21,200
Speaker 1: You talked about changes in the band. What caused the

1539
01:24:21,320 --> 01:24:22,280
Speaker 1: changes in the band?

1540
01:24:23,920 --> 01:24:26,280
Speaker 2: I'll leave it at this. When I signed with Atlantic,

1541
01:24:26,320 --> 01:24:29,520
Speaker 2: I'm the only went to sign, so they were and

1542
01:24:29,600 --> 01:24:32,759
Speaker 2: they were employees of mine, and I put a moral

1543
01:24:32,800 --> 01:24:34,840
Speaker 2: clause in there, so I'll just leave it that two

1544
01:24:34,880 --> 01:24:38,720
Speaker 2: of them did some moral things. That's as far as

1545
01:24:38,720 --> 01:24:42,200
Speaker 2: I'll go. And tried to help as much as it could,

1546
01:24:42,479 --> 01:24:44,360
Speaker 2: but that's where it landed.

1547
01:24:45,680 --> 01:24:48,760
Speaker 1: So is it a band of equals or is it

1548
01:24:48,800 --> 01:24:49,799
Speaker 1: really your band?

1549
01:24:50,479 --> 01:24:54,439
Speaker 2: I'm the songwriter and I am the leader, but it

1550
01:24:54,520 --> 01:25:01,360
Speaker 2: goes with I. If they don't like the song, you

1551
01:25:01,479 --> 01:25:03,080
Speaker 2: have to have a lead. If you don't have a leader,

1552
01:25:03,200 --> 01:25:07,120
Speaker 2: you're you're you're gonna fail. So a lot falls on me,

1553
01:25:07,439 --> 01:25:10,360
Speaker 2: but a lot falls on them too, and I expect

1554
01:25:10,400 --> 01:25:12,320
Speaker 2: a lot out of them. They expect me to write

1555
01:25:13,160 --> 01:25:16,320
Speaker 2: songs that they feel comfortable and then we can record,

1556
01:25:16,720 --> 01:25:19,400
Speaker 2: and I expect them to I call it they put

1557
01:25:19,400 --> 01:25:21,679
Speaker 2: their fairy dust on there. They just make a song

1558
01:25:22,120 --> 01:25:27,000
Speaker 2: just bigger, better and explode and be something that I

1559
01:25:27,040 --> 01:25:29,240
Speaker 2: could have never dreamed of on my own, but they

1560
01:25:29,320 --> 01:25:36,559
Speaker 2: make it this wonderful piece. So uh, there's I mean,

1561
01:25:36,600 --> 01:25:40,559
Speaker 2: there's no stalin over here. You know. We talk and

1562
01:25:40,640 --> 01:25:43,240
Speaker 2: we communicate as a group, but the final I do

1563
01:25:43,320 --> 01:25:48,160
Speaker 2: have to make the final decision. I mean, it's it's demoment.

1564
01:25:48,240 --> 01:25:50,479
Speaker 2: They're they're tough decisions that has to be made. But

1565
01:25:50,560 --> 01:25:53,519
Speaker 2: that's part of being a leader or the leader of

1566
01:25:53,880 --> 01:25:54,839
Speaker 2: whatever organization.

1567
01:25:56,240 --> 01:26:00,599
Speaker 1: Okay, needless to say, you've been to the mountaintop. Very

1568
01:26:00,640 --> 01:26:03,679
Speaker 1: few people have been to the mountaintop and the business

1569
01:26:03,720 --> 01:26:09,080
Speaker 1: has completely changed. But does that affect you, say, shit,

1570
01:26:09,120 --> 01:26:10,600
Speaker 1: I was in the mountaintop. I want to be in

1571
01:26:10,640 --> 01:26:14,120
Speaker 1: the mountaintop again. Or you've made peace with the fact

1572
01:26:14,160 --> 01:26:16,839
Speaker 1: that it's hard to get there and the game changes.

1573
01:26:17,360 --> 01:26:18,639
Speaker 1: What goes through your mind there?

1574
01:26:20,240 --> 01:26:22,040
Speaker 2: I don't know. I don't think about things like I said,

1575
01:26:22,040 --> 01:26:23,840
Speaker 2: I don't think about things like that. I think about

1576
01:26:23,920 --> 01:26:26,840
Speaker 2: the next song, and I think about the next show

1577
01:26:26,880 --> 01:26:30,479
Speaker 2: with my friends on stage and enjoying life with them.

1578
01:26:30,960 --> 01:26:34,880
Speaker 2: I just do I mean, and I don't think if

1579
01:26:34,920 --> 01:26:38,960
Speaker 2: we don't get whatever you define the mountaintop as, I'm

1580
01:26:39,000 --> 01:26:40,840
Speaker 2: happy as can be. And I don't think there's a

1581
01:26:40,880 --> 01:26:43,040
Speaker 2: reason we can't get to the mountaintop. I don't know

1582
01:26:43,080 --> 01:26:45,200
Speaker 2: what the mountaintop is to me. I am on the

1583
01:26:45,200 --> 01:26:46,240
Speaker 2: mountaintop right now.

1584
01:26:48,000 --> 01:26:52,120
Speaker 1: Okay, we're in this story. Do you part ways with

1585
01:26:52,160 --> 01:26:57,559
Speaker 1: the initial manager is he on all through Atlantic or.

1586
01:26:58,439 --> 01:27:01,560
Speaker 2: He ended up the gaining of the second one, the

1587
01:27:02,080 --> 01:27:05,120
Speaker 2: Collective Soul record the second one.

1588
01:27:05,560 --> 01:27:10,960
Speaker 1: So when you're done with Atlantic, do you ever get

1589
01:27:11,040 --> 01:27:13,720
Speaker 1: recording royalties? A lot of record coupies say, oh, you're

1590
01:27:13,720 --> 01:27:18,320
Speaker 1: still in the red. Oh yeah, but Atlantic paid recording

1591
01:27:18,400 --> 01:27:19,120
Speaker 1: royalties to you.

1592
01:27:19,800 --> 01:27:24,000
Speaker 2: Yeah. I was very you know, one good thing about

1593
01:27:24,000 --> 01:27:26,000
Speaker 2: being thirty and long in the tooth, I was very

1594
01:27:26,000 --> 01:27:28,200
Speaker 2: aware because I've watched so many bands come and go,

1595
01:27:28,520 --> 01:27:31,040
Speaker 2: like recording them and getting to know a lot of

1596
01:27:31,080 --> 01:27:34,400
Speaker 2: them in the Atlanta area. I knew a lot about

1597
01:27:34,400 --> 01:27:39,040
Speaker 2: the business still, So yeah, I was very that part

1598
01:27:39,040 --> 01:27:40,639
Speaker 2: of my life. I was not naive about.

1599
01:27:42,200 --> 01:27:45,040
Speaker 1: And the songs? Do you own the songs?

1600
01:27:45,400 --> 01:27:50,840
Speaker 2: I did? I owned everything and then I sold a

1601
01:27:50,920 --> 01:27:54,679
Speaker 2: percentage to a company three years ago, but I still

1602
01:27:54,720 --> 01:27:57,799
Speaker 2: own a percentage a lot.

1603
01:27:57,600 --> 01:28:00,240
Speaker 1: Of percentage in what company did send them to sell

1604
01:28:00,280 --> 01:28:04,760
Speaker 1: them to Round Hill? And what made you decide to

1605
01:28:04,840 --> 01:28:05,759
Speaker 1: sell that interest?

1606
01:28:06,439 --> 01:28:11,240
Speaker 2: Security for my family at my age, I felt, and

1607
01:28:11,320 --> 01:28:15,559
Speaker 2: it was it was an extremely good deal and it

1608
01:28:15,600 --> 01:28:18,519
Speaker 2: just it just brought security for me to know that

1609
01:28:18,560 --> 01:28:21,320
Speaker 2: my family if something ever happened like my family's okay,

1610
01:28:21,600 --> 01:28:23,479
Speaker 2: you know, want for me to go out and buy

1611
01:28:24,120 --> 01:28:28,160
Speaker 2: big house or bigger house, or more cars, or it

1612
01:28:28,200 --> 01:28:29,879
Speaker 2: was just security for my family.

1613
01:28:30,880 --> 01:28:32,040
Speaker 1: And what did you do with the money.

1614
01:28:33,000 --> 01:28:35,920
Speaker 2: It's in a trust for my family. I can't even touch.

1615
01:28:36,800 --> 01:28:41,439
Speaker 1: Okay. So if now it's three years later, three years later,

1616
01:28:41,560 --> 01:28:43,880
Speaker 1: you still feel good about your decision to sell.

1617
01:28:44,120 --> 01:28:48,920
Speaker 2: I did because once again I surrounded myself with people

1618
01:28:48,960 --> 01:28:51,240
Speaker 2: that know how to take care of me and do

1619
01:28:51,280 --> 01:28:56,720
Speaker 2: take care of me. And once again I can't touch it.

1620
01:28:57,439 --> 01:29:00,479
Speaker 2: And I live within my means. I came from absolutely nothing,

1621
01:29:00,600 --> 01:29:03,840
Speaker 2: and I can once again, if Aby's ever came back

1622
01:29:03,840 --> 01:29:06,120
Speaker 2: out with it five or five, I'm out there every day.

1623
01:29:06,360 --> 01:29:10,960
Speaker 2: I don't care. It's like money doesn't scare me. It

1624
01:29:11,080 --> 01:29:11,559
Speaker 2: just doesn't.

1625
01:29:12,520 --> 01:29:15,080
Speaker 1: Did you sell the recording royalties too? Or do you

1626
01:29:15,080 --> 01:29:15,880
Speaker 1: still oan those?

1627
01:29:16,800 --> 01:29:18,439
Speaker 2: Uh? Own those?

1628
01:29:20,000 --> 01:29:20,760
Speaker 1: Okay?

1629
01:29:20,880 --> 01:29:23,000
Speaker 2: So but I re recorded those. I had the right

1630
01:29:23,040 --> 01:29:26,280
Speaker 2: to re record them, So I re recorded all the hits, right,

1631
01:29:26,439 --> 01:29:29,840
Speaker 2: So I so the the hits of the nineties I

1632
01:29:29,920 --> 01:29:31,519
Speaker 2: re recorded and I own that.

1633
01:29:33,400 --> 01:29:39,439
Speaker 1: Okay. If you stop working tomorrow, is there enough income

1634
01:29:39,560 --> 01:29:41,320
Speaker 1: to make it all work? Or do you have to

1635
01:29:41,400 --> 01:29:42,200
Speaker 1: go on the road.

1636
01:29:43,479 --> 01:29:46,280
Speaker 2: I do not have to work another day. Neither do

1637
01:29:46,360 --> 01:29:50,880
Speaker 2: my children. So it's that that's there's a simple answer

1638
01:29:50,960 --> 01:29:54,280
Speaker 2: right there, right so then, but I want them to work.

1639
01:29:54,320 --> 01:29:56,519
Speaker 2: I don't want that to be a part of you know,

1640
01:29:56,640 --> 01:29:59,559
Speaker 2: my thing is I set it up for initiative. I

1641
01:29:59,600 --> 01:30:02,479
Speaker 2: need them, haven't, you know, to get out there and

1642
01:30:02,520 --> 01:30:03,200
Speaker 2: do their own gig.

1643
01:30:03,920 --> 01:30:08,800
Speaker 1: Now, in Collective Soul, you're the songwriter and there's a

1644
01:30:08,800 --> 01:30:12,000
Speaker 1: lot of income from being a songwriter, which generally speaking,

1645
01:30:12,040 --> 01:30:14,680
Speaker 1: the other members are not in your being. Does that

1646
01:30:14,720 --> 01:30:15,519
Speaker 1: cause any friction?

1647
01:30:16,000 --> 01:30:21,439
Speaker 2: It does not, and I think a lot of it

1648
01:30:21,479 --> 01:30:23,640
Speaker 2: has to do. I'm still ready to go out. We

1649
01:30:23,720 --> 01:30:27,880
Speaker 2: make good money touring and I love touring, so I

1650
01:30:27,920 --> 01:30:32,160
Speaker 2: don't I hadn't been brought up to me yet. I

1651
01:30:32,200 --> 01:30:34,719
Speaker 2: hope you're not causing any trouble over there, Ball.

1652
01:30:35,439 --> 01:30:36,080
Speaker 1: No, I'm not.

1653
01:30:38,240 --> 01:30:38,400
Speaker 2: So.

1654
01:30:38,720 --> 01:30:42,640
Speaker 1: I listened to your record okay, and I think it

1655
01:30:42,680 --> 01:30:44,519
Speaker 1: was let it flow, could have been not the same,

1656
01:30:44,560 --> 01:30:45,800
Speaker 1: And I said, all of a sudden, I'm looking at

1657
01:30:45,800 --> 01:30:48,559
Speaker 1: the speakers, I go, wait a second, this is my

1658
01:30:48,720 --> 01:30:53,000
Speaker 1: kind of music. I really dig this. What's the status

1659
01:30:53,040 --> 01:30:55,360
Speaker 1: of rock in the world today.

1660
01:30:56,400 --> 01:30:59,439
Speaker 2: I don't know. I honestly, I gotta be honest with you.

1661
01:30:59,680 --> 01:31:03,120
Speaker 2: The last three to five years I just kind of

1662
01:31:04,000 --> 01:31:07,840
Speaker 2: referred back to what brought me joy and happiness and

1663
01:31:07,880 --> 01:31:11,679
Speaker 2: what inspired me. I mean, I got all my records

1664
01:31:11,720 --> 01:31:12,280
Speaker 2: over here.

1665
01:31:12,960 --> 01:31:19,000
Speaker 3: I'll buy new records. I just I think I'm lazy.

1666
01:31:19,080 --> 01:31:21,040
Speaker 3: I don't want to hear anything else other than what

1667
01:31:22,560 --> 01:31:25,400
Speaker 3: I call them, the professors or the artists that help me,

1668
01:31:25,840 --> 01:31:28,479
Speaker 3: that brought me joy. It's just kind of where I

1669
01:31:28,479 --> 01:31:31,360
Speaker 3: am in life. I just I'm cool with listening to

1670
01:31:32,000 --> 01:31:34,920
Speaker 3: I'll look over here now. I got Elton R. M.

1671
01:31:35,000 --> 01:31:38,160
Speaker 2: Pink Floyd, I was George Michael a c DC, Bob

1672
01:31:38,200 --> 01:31:43,400
Speaker 2: Seer put Beach Boys, crowded house. But who, I mean,

1673
01:31:44,960 --> 01:31:46,960
Speaker 2: what else do you need? There's only so many times,

1674
01:31:46,960 --> 01:31:51,160
Speaker 2: so many minutes, hours in the day. I'm cool with

1675
01:31:51,160 --> 01:31:51,920
Speaker 2: what I grew up with.

1676
01:31:52,840 --> 01:31:55,080
Speaker 1: So you talk about vinyl. Do you have a good stereo?

1677
01:31:56,000 --> 01:31:59,599
Speaker 2: I did. I did it when it was over here.

1678
01:31:59,760 --> 01:32:03,320
Speaker 2: I got audio Technica. I like audio Technica, then some

1679
01:32:03,520 --> 01:32:11,320
Speaker 2: Yamaha Howard speakers in a sub. I have four in

1680
01:32:11,360 --> 01:32:14,320
Speaker 2: the house. So any room I go into I can

1681
01:32:14,360 --> 01:32:15,040
Speaker 2: play records.

1682
01:32:17,000 --> 01:32:19,439
Speaker 1: And where do you live now, I'm not looking for

1683
01:32:19,479 --> 01:32:20,479
Speaker 1: the address, but.

1684
01:32:21,439 --> 01:32:24,639
Speaker 2: It's Sandy Springs, Georgia. It's it's right outside of Atlanta,

1685
01:32:24,920 --> 01:32:27,000
Speaker 2: just a suburb of Atlanta.

1686
01:32:28,360 --> 01:32:33,679
Speaker 1: And when you're not listening or playing music or being

1687
01:32:33,720 --> 01:32:35,880
Speaker 1: on the road, what occupies your time?

1688
01:32:36,640 --> 01:32:42,200
Speaker 2: Family? You know, getting a boy to school, spending time

1689
01:32:42,240 --> 01:32:47,799
Speaker 2: with my wife. But as far as hobbies, I love golf.

1690
01:32:48,160 --> 01:32:50,599
Speaker 2: I mean, I very rarely have time to see friends.

1691
01:32:50,640 --> 01:32:54,040
Speaker 2: So golf is my fellowship with my buddies, and that's

1692
01:32:54,479 --> 01:32:57,320
Speaker 2: that's it. I mean, it's a pretty simple life I live.

1693
01:32:58,640 --> 01:33:01,920
Speaker 1: And are those buddies are those people you grew up with,

1694
01:33:02,080 --> 01:33:04,080
Speaker 1: people you met in the studio years? Who are the

1695
01:33:04,080 --> 01:33:05,439
Speaker 1: buddies you're playing golf with?

1696
01:33:05,560 --> 01:33:11,120
Speaker 2: Now? Two are from my childhood, but the other ones

1697
01:33:11,160 --> 01:33:14,200
Speaker 2: are all that I've met during just you know, growing

1698
01:33:14,280 --> 01:33:17,480
Speaker 2: up in life, different areas.

1699
01:33:18,080 --> 01:33:20,280
Speaker 1: And you go on the road. Do you go on

1700
01:33:20,320 --> 01:33:23,559
Speaker 1: the road during the summer? School's not on during the summer.

1701
01:33:24,320 --> 01:33:26,880
Speaker 1: Do you take your family on the road. Do they

1702
01:33:26,960 --> 01:33:29,680
Speaker 1: come out to visit you? What goes on there they do?

1703
01:33:30,720 --> 01:33:35,360
Speaker 2: This year, little man's in camp so much getting ready

1704
01:33:35,439 --> 01:33:37,760
Speaker 2: for going to high school. But my wife comes out,

1705
01:33:38,000 --> 01:33:40,280
Speaker 2: my mom comes out, bring my mom out for a week,

1706
01:33:40,520 --> 01:33:43,400
Speaker 2: just hang out. So yeah, like we're a very family.

1707
01:33:43,400 --> 01:33:48,040
Speaker 2: We're in the band. Other band members moms come out

1708
01:33:48,160 --> 01:33:52,280
Speaker 2: like we just it's like going to camp. We're silly boys.

1709
01:33:52,720 --> 01:33:53,559
Speaker 2: We love our life.

1710
01:33:55,200 --> 01:33:59,320
Speaker 1: You come across as so even tempered and happy. I mean,

1711
01:33:59,360 --> 01:34:01,960
Speaker 1: do you ever get angry, frustrated, depressed?

1712
01:34:02,240 --> 01:34:04,400
Speaker 2: Of course I do. I don't think I ever get depressed.

1713
01:34:05,400 --> 01:34:09,880
Speaker 2: I have. I get frustrated and angry, of course, but

1714
01:34:10,520 --> 01:34:13,520
Speaker 2: I don't think. I don't. I don't remember being depressed.

1715
01:34:13,920 --> 01:34:19,160
Speaker 2: I just don't like, I don't know. No, I don't

1716
01:34:19,160 --> 01:34:23,599
Speaker 2: get depressed, angry and frustrated. Of course, of course I get,

1717
01:34:24,160 --> 01:34:26,880
Speaker 2: and the anger is usually it myself for being a

1718
01:34:27,000 --> 01:34:29,920
Speaker 2: damn idiot. I get mad at myself more than I

1719
01:34:29,960 --> 01:34:30,600
Speaker 2: do anybody.

1720
01:34:31,920 --> 01:34:35,479
Speaker 1: Well, you know, it's really interesting because I certainly seen

1721
01:34:35,520 --> 01:34:40,559
Speaker 1: your image in videos and on album covers, but I

1722
01:34:40,600 --> 01:34:43,360
Speaker 1: had no idea what your personality was like and what

1723
01:34:43,400 --> 01:34:45,720
Speaker 1: you were like. I mean, you're really I can see

1724
01:34:45,720 --> 01:34:48,920
Speaker 1: why you're successful, and you're more even tempered certainly than

1725
01:34:48,960 --> 01:34:49,320
Speaker 1: I am.

1726
01:34:49,439 --> 01:34:52,840
Speaker 2: Now there's no way you get angry. There is no way.

1727
01:34:55,640 --> 01:34:58,040
Speaker 1: Oh man, I cover the spectrum of what I was

1728
01:34:58,080 --> 01:35:02,040
Speaker 1: asking you. That's what I You know, when I see

1729
01:35:02,040 --> 01:35:05,360
Speaker 1: someone like you, it's more even tempered and more warm whatever.

1730
01:35:05,600 --> 01:35:09,200
Speaker 1: Believe me, I notice that, and I evaluate myself and.

1731
01:35:09,040 --> 01:35:11,000
Speaker 2: It's hard for me when I have friends that do

1732
01:35:11,120 --> 01:35:13,800
Speaker 2: to get depressed because I don't understand that, you know.

1733
01:35:13,880 --> 01:35:15,760
Speaker 2: And I try to be as patient and I am

1734
01:35:15,760 --> 01:35:17,880
Speaker 2: patient with that, and you want to help them, but

1735
01:35:17,920 --> 01:35:19,800
Speaker 2: I don't. It's a that's a tough one for me.

1736
01:35:20,400 --> 01:35:22,880
Speaker 2: But it doesn't mean they're wrong. It's no right or wrong.

1737
01:35:23,040 --> 01:35:26,280
Speaker 2: It's just I don't want anybody to press I want

1738
01:35:26,320 --> 01:35:31,479
Speaker 2: us all to you know, get through this whatever this is,

1739
01:35:31,600 --> 01:35:36,240
Speaker 2: life chapter whatever, enjoying, enjoying whatever this gift is.

1740
01:35:37,479 --> 01:35:41,920
Speaker 1: So you would say you're generally optimistic.

1741
01:35:41,720 --> 01:35:43,519
Speaker 2: Whenever sent on.

1742
01:35:47,840 --> 01:35:50,200
Speaker 1: And on that node, folks, I'm going to leave you.

1743
01:35:50,600 --> 01:35:54,120
Speaker 1: I've been talking to ed Rowland, who's new band has

1744
01:35:54,360 --> 01:35:58,439
Speaker 1: a label here to Eternity, and it's really pretty good

1745
01:35:58,479 --> 01:36:00,439
Speaker 1: if you like rock music. You can see him on

1746
01:36:00,479 --> 01:36:04,160
Speaker 1: the road, both with Hoodie and Edwin McCain and Loan.

1747
01:36:04,240 --> 01:36:06,000
Speaker 1: So I want to thank you so much for taking

1748
01:36:06,040 --> 01:36:07,559
Speaker 1: this time to talk to my audience.

1749
01:36:08,040 --> 01:36:10,800
Speaker 2: Thank you so much. This was awesome. Thank you so much.

1750
01:36:11,040 --> 01:36:12,960
Speaker 1: No, really, it was really cool getting to know you.

1751
01:36:13,240 --> 01:36:14,880
Speaker 2: Where do I send the four hundred and fifty dollars

1752
01:36:14,960 --> 01:36:20,200
Speaker 2: check for therapy? To p O box.

1753
01:36:23,560 --> 01:36:26,800
Speaker 1: Okay, ed, I'm gonna leave it there all right, Rather

1754
01:36:27,240 --> 01:36:29,799
Speaker 1: until next time it's Bob left sets