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Speaker 1: Hey there, and welcome back to the Book of Joe

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Speaker 1: Podcasts with me, Tom Berducci and of course Joe Madden,

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Speaker 1: and we are lucky enough to get Joe off the

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Speaker 1: golf course so we can talk National League at American

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Speaker 1: League Championship Series. How's the game these days, Joe?

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Speaker 2: You know what it's been, It's been actually pretty good.

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Speaker 2: When my one of my matches the other day at

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Speaker 2: their local Ryder Cup, I'm gonna brag you a little

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Speaker 2: bit here because we have like a nine hole event.

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Speaker 3: It was a three nines on.

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Speaker 2: The first day and we closed our guys out on

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Speaker 2: the one nine hole. I had four birdies and nine

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Speaker 2: holes in seven holes. Never done that before in my life.

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Speaker 2: And then yesterday it was down in Philadelphia at the

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Speaker 2: Darren Dalton Foundational Event.

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Speaker 3: I'll tell you what.

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Speaker 2: It could not have been windy. Your could not. I

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Speaker 2: don't think I've ever played a win like that. But

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Speaker 2: me and three other four of the young men Andrew,

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Speaker 2: two Joe's and a Matt We had a right time

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Speaker 2: and so I got back kind of late.

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Speaker 3: It's all good stuff.

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Speaker 2: Ryder Cup was fun and whenever you have a chance

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Speaker 2: to do these charity golf events, they raise a ton

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Speaker 2: of dough. Darren Dalton, the great guy, died terribly young.

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Speaker 2: And so anyway, it went down here yesterday. I got

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Speaker 2: to see Boa, Johnny Cruck, Ruben Tomorrow, a lot of guys,

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Speaker 2: a lot of Phillies that I love. So it was

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Speaker 2: a good day.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, we'll get to this a little bit later. Those Phillies,

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Speaker 1: fans and players still looking their wounds after a team

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Speaker 1: we both like coming into this postseason. Joe is out.

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Speaker 1: We'll talk about that in a minute, but first I

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Speaker 1: want to get your overall impressions here as we sit

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Speaker 1: here at the National League Championship Series, the Yankees playing

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Speaker 1: the Guardians, the Mets playing the Los Angeles Dodgers. What

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Speaker 1: has jumped out at you so far? If you see

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Speaker 1: a pattern overall in this postseason, something that surprised you,

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Speaker 1: and I talked to you Joe Madden about the twenty

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Speaker 1: twenty four playoffs, what really has caught your eye?

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Speaker 2: Well, you know the biggest Well, I guess it's become

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Speaker 2: in vogue. I mean the usage of the bullpen. Obviously

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Speaker 2: bullpens with Detroit, you know, they they did their thing

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Speaker 2: in Houston. But it's so difficult to go through that

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Speaker 2: many games with this kind of a pressure and attitude. Uh,

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Speaker 2: and have your really pictures really come through time and

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Speaker 2: time and time again. It's not easy, and it's it's

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Speaker 2: it might be a temporary fix, but it's difficult to

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Speaker 2: go further than that.

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Speaker 3: I'll say it run run down.

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Speaker 4: Uh.

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Speaker 2: You know, everybody keeps waiting for him the fall, and

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Speaker 2: you know he's he's he stubs his tone now and then.

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Speaker 2: But that was pretty spectacular yesterday. With the guy did

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Speaker 2: during the course of the season was kind of it's

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Speaker 2: kind of a typical good adding maybe two good addings,

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Speaker 2: bad adding whatever, and always concerned about him blowing up,

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Speaker 2: but he didn't do that yesterday, So that that really

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Speaker 2: stood out to me. I give him, give him credit

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Speaker 2: because he hears a lot of negativity and I really

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Speaker 2: liked what he did yesterday, and congratulations to him and

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Speaker 2: the Yankees. But like you're saying, the dumping of the Phillies,

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Speaker 2: we're gonna touch on that a bit.

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Speaker 3: The look, I mean, I'm into the look.

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Speaker 2: You know, you can see, guys, when a team kind

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Speaker 2: of takes charge, it's going to becomes difficult for the

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Speaker 2: other side to continue to believe in we can do this,

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Speaker 2: even though you might be the favorite.

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Speaker 3: So you know, I'm going to some abstract stuff right here.

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Speaker 2: But that's pretty much what I look into when I

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Speaker 2: watch games. It's not so much the excess and o's

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Speaker 2: I look at kind of like the attitudes and the

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Speaker 2: methods and how people go about their business. And is

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Speaker 2: it as as you predictors. We think like we thought,

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Speaker 2: but we're wrong. You have to be ready for surprises

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Speaker 2: and all of that kind of stuff. So it just

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Speaker 2: it's just men baseball players. Some are rising to the occasion,

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Speaker 2: some not so much. I mean, Aaron Judge has really

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Speaker 2: been struggling, and I watched his swings last night. Everybody's

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Speaker 2: talking about what he needs to do. He needs to

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Speaker 2: accept his walks. That's my opinion. Aaron Judge needs to

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Speaker 2: accept his walks, reorganize a strike. So once he does that,

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Speaker 2: heads up, you're going to start flying all over the place.

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Speaker 2: And then Stanton, you know, here's a guy that everybody

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Speaker 2: wants to. It's almost like a Rendon Rendon Bury the guy,

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Speaker 2: but here he comes again. So attitudes rising to the occasion,

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Speaker 2: those that may follow a negative pattern, whatever, that's what

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Speaker 2: I look into more than anything, and that's what's fascinating

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Speaker 2: to me.

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Speaker 1: But there's a lot to unpack there, Joe, Yeah, yeah, sorry, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean that was a little James Joyce stream of consciousness.

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Speaker 3: I like that.

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Speaker 1: You know, let's start with the Yankees, okay, and the

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Speaker 1: Yankees Guardian series. You mentioned the star power on the Yankees, right,

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Speaker 1: and you're watching you know, Soto go Yard, You're watching

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Speaker 1: a Stanton just completely come alive at which he does

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Speaker 1: in October. Judge is still a force, and I agree

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Speaker 1: with you, he's fine. I think there's a natural tendency

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Speaker 1: to press. I know, Joe, you like to talk about

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Speaker 1: the five levels of being a professional. There's almost another

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Speaker 1: six to one, and that is getting it done as

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Speaker 1: a star player in October. Because until you change that

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Speaker 1: narrative that is there and you will be asked about it.

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Speaker 1: And I don't care who you are, it weighs on players.

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Speaker 1: It doesn't mean he can't play well in October. It

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Speaker 1: doesn't mean that he won't play well in October. It

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Speaker 1: just means he hasn't yet. So he has to remove

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Speaker 1: that and then you'll see him take off. I have

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Speaker 1: no doubts about that, but I see them matched up

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Speaker 1: against Cleveland, Joe, I don't see anyway the Cleveland Guardians

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Speaker 1: are going to score enough runs to win four games.

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Speaker 1: I really don't. I mean, I gotta be honest with you.

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Speaker 1: Watching the Yankees, they're not actually a great watch. They're

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Speaker 1: averaging seven walks per game in the postseason. I mean,

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Speaker 1: Kansas City, great pitching staff, afraid to pitch the Yankees,

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Speaker 1: Cleveland great pitching staff, afraid to pitch the Yankees, and

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Speaker 1: that team will not chase. If you go into a

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Speaker 1: series thinking we're gonna get the Yankees to chase, that's

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Speaker 1: how we're gonna win the series, forget it. It's not happening.

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Speaker 1: It's the most patient team at baseball. Sometimes I actually

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Speaker 1: think they're too patient because they give away a ton

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Speaker 1: of strikes. So I just see these teams that have

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Speaker 1: good pitching, but when you go especially at Yankee Stadium, man,

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Speaker 1: you have to have guys who attack the zone. And

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Speaker 1: I'm sorry, some of these young pitchers with good arms

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Speaker 1: and good men on their stuff are just not throwing

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Speaker 1: the ball in the Drike zone enough. And I think

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Speaker 1: you have to do that because if you pitch around

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Speaker 1: the Yankees, guess what, You're still going to get beat.

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Speaker 1: It's just going to take a few minutes longer to happen.

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Speaker 3: That's a bingo right there. I cannot agree with you.

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Speaker 2: More years ago, starting out with the Rays in two

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Speaker 2: thousand and six, I kept hearing, well, the Rays need

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Speaker 2: to get out of the Ale, so you need to

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Speaker 2: get out of this division.

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Speaker 3: It's too tough, financials did not match up.

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Speaker 2: You're never going to be successful if you don't get

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Speaker 2: out of this division, and so on and so forth.

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Speaker 2: In my response always was, no, we need to play

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Speaker 2: in this division. This is how we're going to get

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Speaker 2: better quickly. This is how we're going to be able

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Speaker 2: to cope with the better teams in baseball by primarily

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Speaker 2: playing in these venues. You know, playing at the Trump

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Speaker 2: is one thing, but playing at the old Yankee Stadium

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Speaker 2: and at Fenway Park. At that time, they were the

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Speaker 2: two Giants, and even Toronto was pretty good too. But

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Speaker 2: to play Yankee and Fenway often, which we did.

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Speaker 3: I thought that would accelerate our growth.

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Speaker 2: My point is, I mean, and I know they're a

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Speaker 2: little bit more balanced schedule now, but nevertheless, Kansas City

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Speaker 2: hasn't played and these young guys have not played at

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Speaker 2: the Stadium often enough, or Fenway often enough. At a

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Speaker 2: certain extent, Cleveland, I mean Cleveland, all the Central Ales

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Speaker 2: Central has always had a difficult time against the Yankees,

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Speaker 2: and I really believe it's a familiarity kind of a thing.

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Speaker 2: And that's why I loved what the Rays the ascension

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Speaker 2: of the race. I think a lot of it had

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Speaker 2: to do with playing in that division. You had to

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Speaker 2: be on your toes every night. And you just said it.

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Speaker 2: One of the things we talked about, Andrew and I

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Speaker 2: back in the day was that in order to get

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Speaker 2: Yankee hitters out of Red Sox hitters out, you have

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Speaker 2: to be able to get him out in the strike zone.

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Speaker 2: That was a big part of their foundation back then

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Speaker 2: and it still is. To make you throw the ball

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Speaker 2: with the play.

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Speaker 3: Kevin yuclis outstanding with the Red Sox, all those guys,

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Speaker 3: RTT Manny had an idea what he's doing at the plate.

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Speaker 3: And look at the Yankees.

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Speaker 2: You know, you talk about this Yankee team, and then

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Speaker 2: I was thinking about just put the overlay those teams,

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Speaker 2: like you know.

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Speaker 3: With Sharah and Jeter Cano, Rodriguez, he could go up

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Speaker 3: and you know Bernie beeven.

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Speaker 2: Before that go over that lay them over top of

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Speaker 2: one another, and see how really great those teams were

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Speaker 2: and how tough that division was. So I think, you know,

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Speaker 2: if I'm I want to play in the Al East,

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Speaker 2: I want to play under these circumstances. I think it

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Speaker 2: definitely benefits and helps this time of the year. And

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Speaker 2: a lot of it has to do attitudinally mentally. What

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Speaker 2: am I seeing right now? And and how how easy

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Speaker 2: is it to breathe? Am I used to this?

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Speaker 3: You know?

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Speaker 2: There's this kind of like this force field that kind

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Speaker 2: of envelops you when you walk in there. You didn't

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Speaker 2: ask for it. It's something that you can't describe necessarily

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Speaker 2: unless you participate in it. But it's there and when

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Speaker 2: you That's what I'm saying. All the information in the world,

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Speaker 2: all the great facts in the world, cannot do anything

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Speaker 2: for you unless you go in there properly and able

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Speaker 2: to repel the negativity in a sense, or repel this

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Speaker 2: this energy and actually use it to your benefit. And

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Speaker 2: that's how you win in New York. That's say win

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Speaker 2: in Boston.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I listen. I like the way Cleveland plays baseball.

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Speaker 1: I think Steven Vote has done an amazing job with

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Speaker 1: that team. I really like the Cleveland Guardians team. I

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Speaker 1: don't want this to sound like I'm banging on them.

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Speaker 1: To me, it's just a bad matchup against the Yankees,

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Speaker 1: because I believe the Yankees' pitching staff is just as

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Speaker 1: good as Cleveland's. When you're talking about whatever it is,

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Speaker 1: a thirteen or fourteen guys on the postseason roster. Now

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Speaker 1: in any kind of key situation, you're going to your

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Speaker 1: high leverage guys. And I think the Yankees matchup whether

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Speaker 1: it's starters, well, especially starters and bullpen. They can go

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Speaker 1: pitch to pitch with Cleveland, but at bat to it bat,

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Speaker 1: especially slug to slug, it's a mismatch. I mean, the

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Speaker 1: Yankees can just turn the game on a dime a

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Speaker 1: lot deeper in the lineup than Cleveland can. And then

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Speaker 1: when you give them seven walks per game, they're going

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Speaker 1: to cash some of those into runs. So you know, listen,

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Speaker 1: Cleveland can find a way to score four or five

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Speaker 1: runs four different times against the Yankees, more power to them.

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Speaker 1: I just don't see it happening.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, And you're talking about Yankee pitches versus Cleveland hitters,

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Speaker 2: and that's part of why the Yankees pitching looks so

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Speaker 2: good too.

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Speaker 3: Who who are they pitching against? Kansas City?

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Speaker 2: Same thing I mean, And with Bobby Wood, Junior had

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Speaker 2: really had a tough time. That even exaggerates the problem

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Speaker 2: even more where the Yankee pitchers are even more elevated

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Speaker 2: when they pay face teams that aren't And you could

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Speaker 2: make the argument that oh they're they're the Indians aren't

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Speaker 2: hitting because the Yankees pitching is so good, or Kansas

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Speaker 2: City then because the Yankee pitching is so good. But

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Speaker 2: I'm watching like Bobby with Junior expanded strikes and that's

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Speaker 2: why he struggled while he did, And that's why judges

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Speaker 2: and everybody's always.

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Speaker 3: Looking for answers. We always are.

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Speaker 2: And he has to do this, you know, missing his

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Speaker 2: fastball whatever. But except your walks, because if these you're

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Speaker 2: not going to pitch the Bobby with Junior, they don't

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Speaker 2: want to pitch the judge necessarily. But now that they

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Speaker 2: see that he's off a little bit, maybe a little

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Speaker 2: bit more assertive with him. However, for me, when you're walking,

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Speaker 2: you're hitting these guys that are really good that may

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Speaker 2: be struggling, especially this time of the year. For me,

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Speaker 2: I would really pay attention to with their swinging at

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Speaker 2: more than anything, because you've got to force those pitchers

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Speaker 2: back in. You accept your walks, you set the table

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Speaker 2: for the next guy, and eventued, before you know what,

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Speaker 2: you're going to find your cookie and it's going to

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Speaker 2: go far. So it is a day Yankee pitching has

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Speaker 2: been so good or the offenses they've been facing has

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Speaker 2: made them look better than they are.

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Speaker 1: Well, let's also say goodbye to some teams we had

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Speaker 1: here in the postseason. You mentioned Kansas City, I mean,

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Speaker 1: unbelievable year, right Mac Ltrarro takes them from one hundred

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Speaker 1: and six losses into the postseason. Listen, I think these

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Speaker 1: Central teams definitely benefit from playing the Chicago White Sox

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Speaker 1: thirteen times, There's no question about that. Edges over teams

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Speaker 1: like Seattle and Boston and wildcard contenders who didn't have

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Speaker 1: the advantage, but they did take advantage of it. I'd

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Speaker 1: take nothing away from them for that. But you're right.

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Speaker 1: You see Bobby Wait, classic case of a great player,

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Speaker 1: and I mean he's a great player, so much fun

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Speaker 1: to watch, a definition of a franchise player. For me,

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Speaker 1: just trying to do too much in the postseason moment.

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Speaker 1: And it goes by quickly. You know, it's like there

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Speaker 1: wasn't time for him to readjust and settle things down.

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Speaker 1: Before you know it, you're out in your home. But

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Speaker 1: a great learning experience. He in the Kansas City were

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Speaker 1: I just think, Joe, that team needs to find a

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Speaker 1: lot more bets. I mean, they just there's no depth

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Speaker 1: of that lineup. It's too easy to pitch too. I

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Speaker 1: like their pitching. Cole Reagan's is a star already and

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Speaker 1: will continue to be. I think he's just a pleasure

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Speaker 1: to watch with that change up, and you know, Lugo

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Speaker 1: and Waka were great signs. I think it's a good

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Speaker 1: sign to other teams that you know are coming off

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Speaker 1: down seasons that you're not that far away. Just spend

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Speaker 1: some dough on some guys who can give you some innings.

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Speaker 1: So that's my take on the Royals. I think they

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Speaker 1: have to invest to me in offense, Joe, where they

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Speaker 1: get it on the free agent market trades. I don't know.

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Speaker 1: They have some good young players, but they need a

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Speaker 1: little more thump in that lineup.

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Speaker 2: Let me ask you this, do they just have like

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Speaker 2: a paradigm shift regarding how we're going to do this,

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Speaker 2: it's hard to just find sluggers or on a market, right,

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Speaker 2: It's just it's hard to go out because they.

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Speaker 3: Can't purchase them. They're that purchasing power.

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Speaker 2: You know, they're not going to get Soto as an

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Speaker 2: example more than like, so, what's wrong with creating your

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Speaker 2: own set of metrics, your own new vision, whereas maybe

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Speaker 2: maybe speed pitching and defense is where they need to

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Speaker 2: go and get away from that. I mean, you know

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Speaker 2: you're trying to be that and you're not. And is

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Speaker 2: it in your organization? Is it in your minor league system?

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Speaker 2: Are these people actually forthcoming? Are you going to find

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Speaker 2: them soon? Probably not? I mean that's to me where

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Speaker 2: I used to talk to theopsy in about this, about

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Speaker 2: the draft when there was more rounds, and I said,

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Speaker 2: there's forty rounds in the draft. They think at that

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Speaker 2: particular point, why not spend the last like thirty to

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Speaker 2: forty on just absolute athletes and speed guys. I think

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Speaker 2: we've talked about this reminiscent of the old Kansas City

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Speaker 2: Royals baseball academy. If you hit on one guy a year,

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Speaker 2: after three or four years, man, you've got three or

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Speaker 2: four guys in your funnel. There they can really impact

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Speaker 2: your major league team. Kansas City's got a big ballpark,

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Speaker 2: it's big, big gaps, et cetera. So what's wrong with

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Speaker 2: like coming out with a different kind of a method.

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Speaker 3: To winning baseball games.

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Speaker 2: Everybody's going to talk about slug and home runs win games,

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Speaker 2: and I get that.

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Speaker 3: However, if you'd really compound.

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Speaker 2: Speed, especially with the way the rules are slanted right

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Speaker 2: now to speed with base stealing and contact, I'm just curious.

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Speaker 3: I mean, so to really try to build.

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Speaker 2: Your team like everybody else and just try to be

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Speaker 2: like everybody else. You know, like you said, you might

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Speaker 2: get to the playoffs like this, but is the goal

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Speaker 2: just to get to the playoffs or is the goal

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Speaker 2: to get to the last game.

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Speaker 3: Of the season and win it the last game of

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Speaker 3: the World Series.

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Speaker 2: So maybe a paradigm shift, maybe a different method of

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Speaker 2: putting our group together, something that's more attainable to us speed, defense,

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Speaker 2: and pitching.

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Speaker 3: I don't know, I would have to have that conversation.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, listen, I love balance if that's what you're talking about,

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Speaker 1: But I'm not going all in with nineteen eighties baseball

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Speaker 1: because you need to hit the ball at the ballpark

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Speaker 1: in today's games, simple as that. It's too hard to

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Speaker 1: hit in today's game to be a rally team. And

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Speaker 1: you look at the teams who get into the postseason,

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Speaker 1: they're all in the top half of Major leage Baseball

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Speaker 1: and home runs all of them. I don't think there's

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Speaker 1: a path in today's game to be you know what,

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Speaker 1: do you Herzog's Cardinals and do it that way? Do

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Speaker 1: I want more balance? Absolutely? That's one reason why I

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Speaker 1: liked the Padres team a lot, because they did put

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Speaker 1: the ball in play. Well, let's talk about the Tigers,

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Speaker 1: another team bounced out of the American League. What was

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Speaker 1: your takeaway from Detroit? You mentioned their bullpen, Joe. To me,

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Speaker 1: it's not sustainable. You know, it did catch up to

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Speaker 1: them a little bit. But I give them a ton

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Speaker 1: of credit because they did something that's really hard to do, Joe,

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Speaker 1: And I'm not sure if you ever did this in

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Speaker 1: Tampa Bay, but they made a transition during the season

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Speaker 1: to a younger team, and they basically had a transitional

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Speaker 1: year in a span of two months where they had

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Speaker 1: a ton of positional players from ages let's say twenty

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Speaker 1: three to twenty seven, all pop at the same time

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Speaker 1: and they all got a little bit of a taste

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Speaker 1: of the postseason apple that bodes really well for that

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Speaker 1: team that has a tremendous number of really high level arms.

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Speaker 1: So I'm bullesh on the Tigers. They just need to

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Speaker 1: continue to develop these young players, you know, bring them

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Speaker 1: along at a rate. As you know, Joe, that development

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Speaker 1: is not linear. Some guys will go backwards, some guys

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Speaker 1: will go forward. But man, what a successful year. Even

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Speaker 1: if they hadn't got into the postseason, it was successful.

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Speaker 1: But that was just a bonus for me to see

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Speaker 1: these young players come along and develop at the big

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Speaker 1: league level and then get into the postseason.

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Speaker 2: Well, the fifteen Cubs became the sixteen Cubs. I mean,

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Speaker 2: the fifteen Cubs were not expected to go that far.

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Speaker 2: We had some kind of organizational major league players at

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Speaker 2: that time. We had a lot of young guys that

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Speaker 2: were finding their footing, and eventually in sixteen it became

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Speaker 2: pretty good. So I've been with I think that's a

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Speaker 2: really good example. My time with the Rays, we had

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Speaker 2: young group that became better, but we also augmented that

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Speaker 2: group with some really chosen veterans for the two thousand

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Speaker 2: and eight run and then after that. So there was

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Speaker 2: a homegrown a lot of homegrown, a lot of homegrown arms,

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Speaker 2: which was really a big part of the success there.

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Speaker 2: The bullpen was kind of veteran, which I've always liked

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Speaker 2: to like the veteran bullpen. Those guys really know how

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Speaker 2: to take care of themselves. They've been beyond. They get

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Speaker 2: beyond all the sore arms and being able to pitch

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Speaker 2: two three days in a row and understand how to

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Speaker 2: do that. So I think I've been a part of

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Speaker 2: those kind of groups where the young group, all of

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Speaker 2: a sudden gaels comes together and they did. You're exactly right,

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Speaker 2: they did, but it isn't linear, and you have to

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Speaker 2: see it the developmental process. You got to see it

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Speaker 2: again next year because when you start gaining momentum like this,

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Speaker 2: you definitely need to grow from there. You definitely don't

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Speaker 2: want to take a step backward. And the fact that

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Speaker 2: they did do it and their pitching is that strong,

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Speaker 2: that to me really stands out. I love their shortstop

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Speaker 2: acquisition too. You know, training flowerty Away, nobody's talked about that.

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Speaker 2: I haven't really heard about it a whole lot, but

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Speaker 2: trading flowerty Away probably heard them in this postseason a

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Speaker 2: little bit, but the short stuff they got. I was

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Speaker 2: really really enjoyed watching him playing. I think he's going

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Speaker 2: to be very good. So and what has that been

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Speaker 2: about hobby bias moving forward?

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Speaker 3: I don't know.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, they're reminiscent of the fifteen Cubbies on the verge.

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Speaker 2: Maybe I don't know if they could go out for

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Speaker 2: a well chosen veteran or two that they need for

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Speaker 2: next year to really galvanize this whole group. But yeah,

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Speaker 2: they're kind of on that path.

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Speaker 1: They needed Johnny Lester.

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Speaker 3: That's right, That's exactly what I was thinking as I

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Speaker 3: was saying that.

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Speaker 1: And just remember, folks, you heard it here first, the

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Speaker 1: twenty twenty five Tigers analogous to the twenty sixteen Chicago Cubs. Hey,

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Speaker 1: we're going to take a quick break. When we get

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Speaker 1: back on the Book of Joe, I want to dive

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Speaker 1: into a fascinating series already after two games, and that

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Speaker 1: is the National League Championship series the New York Mets

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Speaker 1: and the Los Angeles Dodgers. It looks like a long series,

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Speaker 1: will it be? We'll talk about that after this. Welcome

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Speaker 1: Back to the Book of Joe podcast breaking down the

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Speaker 1: National League Championship Series. It's been a good one, so, Joe.

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Speaker 1: The Dodgers looked like an absolute juggernaut. In Game one.

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Speaker 1: They handed the Mets their worst loss in their one

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Speaker 1: hundred game postseason history, nine to nothing, non competitive game.

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Speaker 1: And there are the Dodgers on a roll of what

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Speaker 1: was it, thirty three consecutive twenty three consecutive scoreless innings,

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Speaker 1: whatever it was. I didn't give it up a run

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Speaker 1: since the third inning of Game three in the NLDS.

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Speaker 1: Just clicking on all cylinders and then boom. Game two

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Speaker 1: opens up with Francisco Lindor hitting a home run after

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Speaker 1: a long a bat man? Was that you die? You

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Speaker 1: talk about a guy who sets the tone for the

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Speaker 1: New York Mets, And then I want to get your

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Speaker 1: take on this show. Second inning, there's a base open,

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Speaker 1: two outs. Lindor is back up again and Dave Roberts

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Speaker 1: puts up the four fingers to put him on base.

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Speaker 1: The pitch to Mark Viento's right hand or on the mound,

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Speaker 1: and bam, grand slam. Basically game over at that point.

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Speaker 1: This is interesting, Joe. I was sitting there wondering it

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Speaker 1: wasn't I don't think a terrible move. But I was thinking,

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Speaker 1: how many times does a manager walk the leadoff guy

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Speaker 1: in the second inning of a postseason game? Because you're

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Speaker 1: walking the guy to get into deeper into the middle

434
00:20:20,398 --> 00:20:23,198
Speaker 1: of the order and it's only the second inning. The

435
00:20:23,238 --> 00:20:26,918
Speaker 1: answer is, it's only happened once before in postseason history.

436
00:20:27,358 --> 00:20:32,278
Speaker 1: And you know who the hitter was, Francisco Lindor. Joe

437
00:20:32,358 --> 00:20:36,078
Speaker 1: Girardi did that with CC Sabbathia on the mound, really

438
00:20:36,158 --> 00:20:39,718
Speaker 1: to pitch the Jason Kipness and Kidness beat Sabbathia with

439
00:20:39,758 --> 00:20:43,598
Speaker 1: a single Wow. So what did you think, first of all,

440
00:20:43,678 --> 00:20:47,078
Speaker 1: the move there to walk Lindor to get the Viento's

441
00:20:47,158 --> 00:20:48,998
Speaker 1: to go right on right two outs in the inning.

442
00:20:49,278 --> 00:20:51,838
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean I can't. I can't fault him for that.

443
00:20:51,918 --> 00:20:54,678
Speaker 2: I was probably discussed before the game, and I in

444
00:20:54,718 --> 00:20:57,358
Speaker 2: a twenty sixteen World Series, I made decisions based on

445
00:20:57,398 --> 00:20:58,518
Speaker 2: Lindoor coming to the plate.

446
00:20:58,798 --> 00:20:59,358
Speaker 3: I've done that.

447
00:21:00,678 --> 00:21:02,958
Speaker 2: He is that good. He's been that good for a

448
00:21:02,958 --> 00:21:06,038
Speaker 2: long time. That was sixteen. This is twenty four. So

449
00:21:06,558 --> 00:21:09,678
Speaker 2: when that guy is on his game and he is

450
00:21:09,718 --> 00:21:13,278
Speaker 2: so locked in right now, and just to typify that

451
00:21:13,438 --> 00:21:15,478
Speaker 2: or explain that to me, is that when he hit

452
00:21:15,478 --> 00:21:18,198
Speaker 2: that home run, that big home run recently in New York,

453
00:21:18,478 --> 00:21:18,838
Speaker 2: I think it.

454
00:21:18,758 --> 00:21:20,638
Speaker 1: Was, Yeah, the Grand Slam of Vestavez.

455
00:21:21,038 --> 00:21:23,798
Speaker 2: Yeah, he just seemed like running around the bases like

456
00:21:23,878 --> 00:21:27,598
Speaker 2: an absolute professional. I mean, that just tells me how

457
00:21:27,638 --> 00:21:29,518
Speaker 2: locked in he is, and that's how much he's setting

458
00:21:29,518 --> 00:21:32,878
Speaker 2: the tone for this entire group. Yeah, listen, I love Viento's,

459
00:21:32,918 --> 00:21:35,118
Speaker 2: but I yeah, I probably have done the same thing.

460
00:21:35,158 --> 00:21:37,318
Speaker 2: I'm not saying I wouldn't, And again I would have.

461
00:21:37,438 --> 00:21:39,998
Speaker 2: That would have been on my card right there. I

462
00:21:40,118 --> 00:21:43,238
Speaker 2: put like a little hook around the door to get

463
00:21:43,238 --> 00:21:43,958
Speaker 2: to Viento's.

464
00:21:44,638 --> 00:21:47,238
Speaker 3: And it just makes sense. I don't care what any

465
00:21:47,318 --> 00:21:47,598
Speaker 3: it is.

466
00:21:47,798 --> 00:21:53,318
Speaker 2: Playoff games really obviously project differently, So yeah, I could

467
00:21:53,358 --> 00:21:55,598
Speaker 2: see doing that. I love Viento's and is going to

468
00:21:55,638 --> 00:21:58,758
Speaker 2: be great. I think he I as his third bass

469
00:21:58,798 --> 00:22:01,318
Speaker 2: play continues to improve. Heads up, this is that's a

470
00:22:01,358 --> 00:22:03,598
Speaker 2: hard position to fill and to feel with that kind

471
00:22:03,638 --> 00:22:06,358
Speaker 2: of abilities, and he seems like he's he's kind of

472
00:22:06,358 --> 00:22:08,318
Speaker 2: okay with all this. He's kind of calm about.

473
00:22:08,038 --> 00:22:08,478
Speaker 3: The whole thing.

474
00:22:08,758 --> 00:22:11,198
Speaker 1: Oh, he's more than okay with it. They call him

475
00:22:11,238 --> 00:22:15,878
Speaker 1: Swaggy V. This kid, he's got an ability to have

476
00:22:15,958 --> 00:22:19,678
Speaker 1: tremendous confidence without being arrogant about it. I mean, he

477
00:22:19,838 --> 00:22:23,398
Speaker 1: is smooth. I don't think he's a third baseman. Ok

478
00:22:23,558 --> 00:22:25,238
Speaker 1: we'll see if he develops into one. I think he's

479
00:22:25,238 --> 00:22:27,478
Speaker 1: gonna be playing first base next year if Pete Alonzo's

480
00:22:27,478 --> 00:22:31,158
Speaker 1: signs elsewhere. Okay, but that's moving ahead. Let's look back

481
00:22:31,198 --> 00:22:34,718
Speaker 1: on that game again, Joe, because what the Dodgers did,

482
00:22:35,198 --> 00:22:39,238
Speaker 1: and they're always interesting to me with their pitcher usage. Right,

483
00:22:39,518 --> 00:22:41,918
Speaker 1: they first thought Walker Buehler was going to pitch game two,

484
00:22:41,998 --> 00:22:43,478
Speaker 1: but I think they made the right move to go

485
00:22:43,478 --> 00:22:45,878
Speaker 1: to a bullpen game in game two rather than three,

486
00:22:45,958 --> 00:22:48,198
Speaker 1: because you don't want to go bullpen game game three

487
00:22:48,278 --> 00:22:52,118
Speaker 1: when you're playing three consecutive days. Correct, So that made

488
00:22:52,158 --> 00:22:55,038
Speaker 1: sense to me. So they go into this game, they

489
00:22:55,078 --> 00:22:58,518
Speaker 1: start Ryan b Or Brazier, who's just a he's an opener,

490
00:22:59,078 --> 00:23:01,918
Speaker 1: and Lindor pops in for the home run. Then they

491
00:23:01,958 --> 00:23:04,438
Speaker 1: go to this kid, landed Neck. They like him. He's

492
00:23:04,518 --> 00:23:06,918
Speaker 1: got one of these fastballs at the metrics like, he's

493
00:23:06,918 --> 00:23:09,478
Speaker 1: got high spin, he's got good vert top of his own.

494
00:23:09,798 --> 00:23:12,758
Speaker 1: He also has thrown almost forty percent more innings this

495
00:23:12,838 --> 00:23:14,958
Speaker 1: year than he did last year. He's a twenty seven

496
00:23:15,038 --> 00:23:17,118
Speaker 1: year old rookie. He's been around, but like a lot

497
00:23:17,158 --> 00:23:19,278
Speaker 1: of guys in today's game, because of COVID and because

498
00:23:19,278 --> 00:23:21,398
Speaker 1: the way guys that can handle the minor leagues, he's

499
00:23:21,438 --> 00:23:25,238
Speaker 1: only averaged like ninety one innings a year as a professional,

500
00:23:25,358 --> 00:23:27,558
Speaker 1: so he's been way over his innings limit. And he

501
00:23:27,638 --> 00:23:30,678
Speaker 1: goes out there as essentially the bulk guy that Dave

502
00:23:30,758 --> 00:23:34,638
Speaker 1: Roberts has, and he was gassed. Quite frankly, he was

503
00:23:34,678 --> 00:23:37,038
Speaker 1: put in the spot he wasn't ready for, and they

504
00:23:37,238 --> 00:23:40,038
Speaker 1: just had to kind of ride him, and you know,

505
00:23:40,078 --> 00:23:41,878
Speaker 1: before you know it, the game's out of hand. Now

506
00:23:41,878 --> 00:23:45,038
Speaker 1: the Dodger offense does come back, so it becomes a

507
00:23:45,158 --> 00:23:48,438
Speaker 1: six to three game, and Dave Roberts is piecing the

508
00:23:48,438 --> 00:23:51,478
Speaker 1: game together without using any of his high leverage guys.

509
00:23:51,638 --> 00:23:53,318
Speaker 1: We didn't know at the time, but one of them,

510
00:23:53,438 --> 00:23:55,918
Speaker 1: Daniel Hudson, was down for whatever reason. He pitched the

511
00:23:55,998 --> 00:23:59,358
Speaker 1: day before, wasn't feeling well. Okay, so now you've got

512
00:23:59,358 --> 00:24:02,118
Speaker 1: three high leverage guys in your bullpen. The game's now

513
00:24:02,198 --> 00:24:05,438
Speaker 1: six to three, it's now game again. You know, you

514
00:24:05,518 --> 00:24:08,118
Speaker 1: got one of the best offenses in the game, and

515
00:24:08,638 --> 00:24:12,118
Speaker 1: Mets have a closer in Edmond Diaz, who, let's face it,

516
00:24:12,118 --> 00:24:14,318
Speaker 1: has been shaky, and they push him into the game

517
00:24:14,358 --> 00:24:17,078
Speaker 1: into the eighth inning. So this game is far from over.

518
00:24:17,198 --> 00:24:19,478
Speaker 1: So now we get to the ninth inning and he's

519
00:24:19,478 --> 00:24:21,998
Speaker 1: got Edguardia Henriquez on the mound. This is a kid

520
00:24:22,038 --> 00:24:25,438
Speaker 1: who's thrown three and a third major league innings. This

521
00:24:25,478 --> 00:24:28,198
Speaker 1: is a kid who's twenty two years old, who has

522
00:24:28,238 --> 00:24:30,958
Speaker 1: a walk rate of almost six walks per night innings

523
00:24:30,958 --> 00:24:33,918
Speaker 1: in the minor leagues. What in the world is he

524
00:24:34,078 --> 00:24:37,798
Speaker 1: doing out there in a three run game, a playoff game,

525
00:24:37,998 --> 00:24:40,158
Speaker 1: in the ninth inning, when you have an off day

526
00:24:40,198 --> 00:24:43,118
Speaker 1: the next day and your lineup is about to turn

527
00:24:43,198 --> 00:24:47,558
Speaker 1: over to show Heyo Tani, Mookie Betts, Tascar, Hernandez and

528
00:24:47,638 --> 00:24:51,878
Speaker 1: Freddie Freeman you are in this game. I don't get it.

529
00:24:52,278 --> 00:24:54,678
Speaker 1: And none of his high leveraged guys got up in

530
00:24:54,678 --> 00:24:57,878
Speaker 1: that bullpen. And what happens? This is really bad. Joe

531
00:24:58,118 --> 00:25:00,278
Speaker 1: Pete a Lonzo gets a walk. I mentioned this kid

532
00:25:00,318 --> 00:25:04,198
Speaker 1: really has command issues. Pete Alonzo walks into second base

533
00:25:04,238 --> 00:25:07,878
Speaker 1: with a stolen base, uncontested. How in the world does

534
00:25:07,918 --> 00:25:10,758
Speaker 1: that happen? The defense is completely on their toes. He

535
00:25:10,958 --> 00:25:13,758
Speaker 1: Alonso is not a base stealer. To put it mildly,

536
00:25:14,238 --> 00:25:17,478
Speaker 1: take second, he scores on a base hit. Now it's

537
00:25:17,518 --> 00:25:21,078
Speaker 1: a four run game. And now when Betts and Hernandez

538
00:25:21,118 --> 00:25:22,838
Speaker 1: come up with two men on, they're not the tying

539
00:25:22,918 --> 00:25:25,998
Speaker 1: run anymore. And Diaz comes into the game, he was

540
00:25:25,998 --> 00:25:27,838
Speaker 1: so shaky. In fact, they had a guy up behind

541
00:25:27,918 --> 00:25:31,118
Speaker 1: him in a bullpen after two batters. I just don't

542
00:25:31,198 --> 00:25:33,598
Speaker 1: understand how you're not using at least one of your

543
00:25:33,678 --> 00:25:36,918
Speaker 1: high leverage guys to keep the game at six to three.

544
00:25:37,198 --> 00:25:40,278
Speaker 1: You've got an off day the next day, and you

545
00:25:40,838 --> 00:25:44,038
Speaker 1: let a postseason game get away from you, which should

546
00:25:44,118 --> 00:25:46,558
Speaker 1: never happen. That's the cardinal rule for me. You're in

547
00:25:46,598 --> 00:25:48,478
Speaker 1: a postseason game, man, if you got a chance to

548
00:25:48,518 --> 00:25:50,158
Speaker 1: win the game, you have to keep trying to win

549
00:25:50,238 --> 00:25:52,398
Speaker 1: that game and stop worrying about, hey, we got three

550
00:25:52,398 --> 00:25:53,518
Speaker 1: games in a row in New York.

551
00:25:53,878 --> 00:25:57,758
Speaker 3: Okay. First of all, jug run. I'm into the jug run.

552
00:25:57,838 --> 00:26:00,078
Speaker 3: That is when you're huge when you score on the.

553
00:25:59,998 --> 00:26:01,558
Speaker 2: Top of the ninth with the leader, at the bottom

554
00:26:01,558 --> 00:26:03,318
Speaker 2: of the eighth with the lead, and that's what they did,

555
00:26:03,718 --> 00:26:05,918
Speaker 2: and that totally deflates the other side. I've been on

556
00:26:05,958 --> 00:26:08,878
Speaker 2: that stuff since the mid eighties and Instructional League. All

557
00:26:08,918 --> 00:26:11,638
Speaker 2: my teams in the Angel organization back then, the Rays

558
00:26:11,638 --> 00:26:13,838
Speaker 2: and then the Cubs always wanted to jug run. Wanted

559
00:26:13,838 --> 00:26:16,238
Speaker 2: the jug run. Go for the jugular. That's number one,

560
00:26:16,358 --> 00:26:17,998
Speaker 2: and it happened, and that is devastating.

561
00:26:18,078 --> 00:26:19,918
Speaker 3: Number two. The kid throws a hundred, that's all they

562
00:26:19,918 --> 00:26:20,398
Speaker 3: cared about.

563
00:26:20,478 --> 00:26:22,758
Speaker 2: He throws a hundred, but we could put up with

564
00:26:22,838 --> 00:26:26,118
Speaker 2: the walks because nobody contacts him. That's exactly the conversation.

565
00:26:26,718 --> 00:26:29,198
Speaker 2: They're looking for the swing and miss right there. He's

566
00:26:29,518 --> 00:26:31,118
Speaker 2: more than likely Okay, he's going to walk a guy

567
00:26:31,198 --> 00:26:33,358
Speaker 2: or two, but they're not going to move the baseball.

568
00:26:33,358 --> 00:26:34,638
Speaker 2: They're not going to get hits, they're not going to

569
00:26:34,638 --> 00:26:37,198
Speaker 2: score any runs. And then the next part about it

570
00:26:37,238 --> 00:26:38,638
Speaker 2: is Diaz, I mean, you're right. I mean, if I

571
00:26:38,678 --> 00:26:40,638
Speaker 2: go into that last inning with a three point lead

572
00:26:40,918 --> 00:26:43,758
Speaker 2: or deficit and he's pitching, and I can get this

573
00:26:43,878 --> 00:26:45,558
Speaker 2: leadoff guy on, we're pretty good shape.

574
00:26:45,638 --> 00:26:47,838
Speaker 1: And it's an updown for him as well. Don't forget

575
00:26:47,838 --> 00:26:50,518
Speaker 1: that he's already gotten pitched in the eighth any exactly.

576
00:26:50,598 --> 00:26:52,438
Speaker 2: And then the part of the batting leader that's coming

577
00:26:52,518 --> 00:26:55,678
Speaker 2: up is really important also that you just described, So

578
00:26:56,118 --> 00:26:58,758
Speaker 2: all of these things are factors, and here comes a

579
00:26:58,838 --> 00:27:01,278
Speaker 2: day off. I don't trying to justify. I think that

580
00:27:01,398 --> 00:27:05,278
Speaker 2: the Dodgers looking for no contact, accept the walks and

581
00:27:05,438 --> 00:27:07,198
Speaker 2: possibly I don't even know if this is true or not,

582
00:27:07,238 --> 00:27:08,758
Speaker 2: but get him in the game. Get him in the

583
00:27:08,758 --> 00:27:10,758
Speaker 2: game because we might need him in a more crucial moment,

584
00:27:11,038 --> 00:27:12,478
Speaker 2: and we need to get him in here right now

585
00:27:12,518 --> 00:27:14,198
Speaker 2: to get used to this situation so that when we

586
00:27:14,278 --> 00:27:16,518
Speaker 2: need him when it really does count, and an even

587
00:27:16,598 --> 00:27:20,398
Speaker 2: our head situation, he has already pitched in this playoff situation.

588
00:27:20,518 --> 00:27:23,598
Speaker 2: So I missed rationalization wise. I'm just trying to figure

589
00:27:23,598 --> 00:27:26,198
Speaker 2: out different things. But I'm big into the jug run.

590
00:27:26,278 --> 00:27:28,998
Speaker 2: They got it. I would be when you're looking at

591
00:27:28,998 --> 00:27:31,718
Speaker 2: the other team that you're trying to be late, who's

592
00:27:31,798 --> 00:27:35,838
Speaker 2: their closer? Witch's mo and this, and you know DIA's

593
00:27:35,838 --> 00:27:38,678
Speaker 2: got a great arm. Finally yesterday started throwing his fastball too,

594
00:27:38,678 --> 00:27:39,838
Speaker 2: which he just needs to stick to.

595
00:27:40,078 --> 00:27:44,438
Speaker 1: Yes And here's an interesting part of that, Joe, Okay, okay, one,

596
00:27:44,598 --> 00:27:48,198
Speaker 1: because you're right, I think he's been and Carlos Mendoza

597
00:27:48,278 --> 00:27:51,318
Speaker 1: told us this, he's been too tentative, and sometimes the

598
00:27:51,358 --> 00:27:53,278
Speaker 1: game actually has sped up on him. He's were lighting

599
00:27:53,358 --> 00:27:55,478
Speaker 1: the slider a lot. What he said was when he

600
00:27:55,598 --> 00:28:00,118
Speaker 1: got that jug run you're talking about, his mentality then became,

601
00:28:00,518 --> 00:28:02,638
Speaker 1: I'm going to throw fastballs down the middle of the

602
00:28:02,638 --> 00:28:05,038
Speaker 1: plate and then if I have to tighten up and

603
00:28:05,078 --> 00:28:08,238
Speaker 1: start working edges, I will. So you're right, that jug

604
00:28:08,318 --> 00:28:11,838
Speaker 1: run changed so many layers to that game. That fourth run,

605
00:28:11,918 --> 00:28:12,958
Speaker 1: that fourth run of the lead.

606
00:28:13,278 --> 00:28:13,678
Speaker 3: It does.

607
00:28:13,838 --> 00:28:15,518
Speaker 2: And again I'm telling you, I can't tell how much

608
00:28:15,798 --> 00:28:18,038
Speaker 2: this goes back to the mids eighties and.

609
00:28:18,078 --> 00:28:20,118
Speaker 3: Instructional League in Arizona.

610
00:28:20,518 --> 00:28:24,398
Speaker 2: We played every day September fifteenth October, they got right

611
00:28:24,438 --> 00:28:27,438
Speaker 2: up into Halloween, and that was a big emphasis every game,

612
00:28:27,438 --> 00:28:28,718
Speaker 2: whether we got a jug run or not.

613
00:28:29,238 --> 00:28:30,478
Speaker 3: And even to this day.

614
00:28:30,398 --> 00:28:32,078
Speaker 2: Like I heard Eddie Perez the other night on want

615
00:28:32,078 --> 00:28:35,078
Speaker 2: of the broadcasts mentioned that was a jug run, and

616
00:28:35,118 --> 00:28:37,438
Speaker 2: that's exactly right. You want to score in your last

617
00:28:37,478 --> 00:28:40,918
Speaker 2: at bat with a lead. It definitely takes some hair

618
00:28:41,038 --> 00:28:43,678
Speaker 2: or pressure off that your relief picture, your relief picture general,

619
00:28:43,758 --> 00:28:47,198
Speaker 2: your manager, I mean, because there's different decisions to be made.

620
00:28:47,518 --> 00:28:49,278
Speaker 2: It opens things up for you a little bit when

621
00:28:49,758 --> 00:28:52,118
Speaker 2: you have that little bit of breathing room, and so

622
00:28:52,358 --> 00:28:54,798
Speaker 2: It's a huge concept. I love it, done it forever,

623
00:28:55,118 --> 00:28:56,998
Speaker 2: and they got it and that was a big part

624
00:28:56,998 --> 00:28:57,478
Speaker 2: of the victory.

625
00:28:57,478 --> 00:28:59,438
Speaker 1: I agree, yeah, Listen, I didn't have a problem with

626
00:28:59,478 --> 00:29:01,838
Speaker 1: the way Dave Roberts that's that game together to get

627
00:29:01,878 --> 00:29:04,358
Speaker 1: to that point. You know, some people were asking, you know,

628
00:29:04,438 --> 00:29:06,358
Speaker 1: do you get your high leverage guys in there early?

629
00:29:07,318 --> 00:29:09,438
Speaker 1: But no, I think once you got back into the

630
00:29:09,478 --> 00:29:13,438
Speaker 1: game at six ' three, somebody's got to be available

631
00:29:13,638 --> 00:29:15,758
Speaker 1: in the bullpen of every three guys that you had

632
00:29:15,838 --> 00:29:20,318
Speaker 1: left there, you know, Kopak and Phillips trying to one

633
00:29:20,358 --> 00:29:22,598
Speaker 1: of those guys to come in to avoid that drug

634
00:29:22,998 --> 00:29:26,118
Speaker 1: jug run because that You're right, that's an absolute dagger.

635
00:29:26,678 --> 00:29:29,118
Speaker 1: One of the things that concerns me about the Dodgers, Joe,

636
00:29:29,158 --> 00:29:31,478
Speaker 1: is what they do with their pitching sometimes. So now

637
00:29:31,478 --> 00:29:34,958
Speaker 1: they've got Walker, Bueller and yes Younobu you have a

638
00:29:34,998 --> 00:29:37,358
Speaker 1: moto going, and they have not gotten length out of

639
00:29:37,358 --> 00:29:39,998
Speaker 1: those guys either. So I'm sure that was on Dave Roberts'

640
00:29:40,038 --> 00:29:43,078
Speaker 1: mind either. He's kind of managing the next three games,

641
00:29:43,278 --> 00:29:45,878
Speaker 1: knowing three games in a row and he doesn't really

642
00:29:45,918 --> 00:29:49,078
Speaker 1: have a starter other than I guess Flaherty, right, now,

643
00:29:49,398 --> 00:29:51,598
Speaker 1: who's going to give him length. I think it's a

644
00:29:51,638 --> 00:29:53,798
Speaker 1: tough type rope for the Dodgers to walk when they

645
00:29:53,798 --> 00:29:55,718
Speaker 1: have to do this every day, and as we know,

646
00:29:55,998 --> 00:29:59,078
Speaker 1: they tend to be more on the aggressive side and

647
00:29:59,118 --> 00:30:01,278
Speaker 1: getting starters out and going to the bullpen than most

648
00:30:01,278 --> 00:30:01,958
Speaker 1: teams anyway.

649
00:30:02,358 --> 00:30:06,078
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's the part about regular season, and even it

650
00:30:06,118 --> 00:30:09,038
Speaker 2: bleeds into the postseason. As a manager, you're just not

651
00:30:09,118 --> 00:30:13,358
Speaker 2: managing that night's bullpen. You're managing days in advance bullpen

652
00:30:13,478 --> 00:30:16,318
Speaker 2: also also days that it just occurred. How many pitches

653
00:30:16,358 --> 00:30:18,078
Speaker 2: did the guy throw? Many times has he been up,

654
00:30:18,958 --> 00:30:22,558
Speaker 2: What does he feel like with the conversation before the game,

655
00:30:22,558 --> 00:30:24,158
Speaker 2: What did he say to the pitching coach and to

656
00:30:24,278 --> 00:30:26,158
Speaker 2: the bullpen coach before the game when he was playing

657
00:30:26,198 --> 00:30:28,918
Speaker 2: catch in the outfield. All these things are managed. All

658
00:30:28,958 --> 00:30:31,078
Speaker 2: these things are managed. That's the big part. That's why

659
00:30:31,718 --> 00:30:36,958
Speaker 2: bullpen use and usage was always my biggest concern, taking

660
00:30:36,998 --> 00:30:39,438
Speaker 2: care of your bullpen guys, because they do pretty much,

661
00:30:39,598 --> 00:30:42,718
Speaker 2: especially in today's game, they control the whether you're going

662
00:30:42,798 --> 00:30:43,758
Speaker 2: to hold the trophy.

663
00:30:43,518 --> 00:30:45,438
Speaker 3: Or not at the end of the year. So it's

664
00:30:45,478 --> 00:30:46,918
Speaker 3: not just about today's game.

665
00:30:47,518 --> 00:30:49,438
Speaker 2: It definitely you have an eye on the moment, and

666
00:30:49,478 --> 00:30:53,238
Speaker 2: you're always always visualizing tomorrow, the next day, whatever.

667
00:30:54,158 --> 00:30:55,238
Speaker 3: Now when you get to.

668
00:30:56,798 --> 00:30:58,198
Speaker 2: Is this time of the year and even to the

669
00:30:58,558 --> 00:31:00,678
Speaker 2: regular season. For me, I always wanted to win tonight's

670
00:31:00,678 --> 00:31:02,518
Speaker 2: game because you never know what's gonna happen tomorrow.

671
00:31:02,518 --> 00:31:03,838
Speaker 3: It could be a blowout one way or the other.

672
00:31:04,198 --> 00:31:06,118
Speaker 2: Your starter can throw a night inning shut off, Paul,

673
00:31:06,158 --> 00:31:08,718
Speaker 2: who knows. But you're always trying to win tonight's game.

674
00:31:08,718 --> 00:31:12,398
Speaker 2: But you have to always somehow be prudent about what

675
00:31:12,558 --> 00:31:16,558
Speaker 2: may occur and can we actually cover that if it

676
00:31:16,558 --> 00:31:19,398
Speaker 2: does occur that way A long man, A long man

677
00:31:19,438 --> 00:31:21,518
Speaker 2: if something happens, or you're always worried about if something

678
00:31:21,798 --> 00:31:23,558
Speaker 2: goes wrong early and how are we going to cover,

679
00:31:23,838 --> 00:31:26,278
Speaker 2: how we're going to cover That's always a part of

680
00:31:26,278 --> 00:31:29,878
Speaker 2: the next day's strategy too. You'll say, Okay, you know,

681
00:31:30,078 --> 00:31:32,758
Speaker 2: use your bullpen tonight because Johnny Lester is starting tomorrow.

682
00:31:32,798 --> 00:31:35,398
Speaker 3: He's gonna probably pitch at least six or seven, So

683
00:31:35,718 --> 00:31:37,718
Speaker 3: don't worry about it. You know, I get that.

684
00:31:37,838 --> 00:31:39,678
Speaker 2: But you're still worry about what about a line drive

685
00:31:39,718 --> 00:31:42,638
Speaker 2: off the ankle? So all these things are always considered

686
00:31:43,158 --> 00:31:46,678
Speaker 2: as you're trying to piece this thing together. What just happened?

687
00:31:47,038 --> 00:31:50,158
Speaker 2: What you guys feel like, here's tonight. This is my strategy.

688
00:31:50,238 --> 00:31:52,958
Speaker 2: But what do we what do we have ahead of us? Also,

689
00:31:52,998 --> 00:31:54,918
Speaker 2: and how were going to cover? So that's all part

690
00:31:54,918 --> 00:31:55,678
Speaker 2: of the conversation.

691
00:31:56,198 --> 00:31:58,918
Speaker 1: Let's go back to Lindoor. You brought up his name, Joe,

692
00:31:59,078 --> 00:32:02,318
Speaker 1: and you know it's funny you mentioned about the intentional

693
00:32:02,358 --> 00:32:05,278
Speaker 1: walk and you were there of yourself on the other

694
00:32:05,318 --> 00:32:09,358
Speaker 1: side facing Lindor. He will force the manager to make decisions, right.

695
00:32:09,558 --> 00:32:12,678
Speaker 1: So I asked Dave Roberts before this series, you know

696
00:32:12,758 --> 00:32:15,758
Speaker 1: who in that Mets lineup is going to grab your attention?

697
00:32:16,238 --> 00:32:19,958
Speaker 1: You really can't let beat you. And he said Lindor,

698
00:32:20,558 --> 00:32:24,638
Speaker 1: and then he said Lindor and then he said Lindor.

699
00:32:25,278 --> 00:32:29,038
Speaker 1: I think he made his point right, and Francisco Lindor

700
00:32:29,278 --> 00:32:31,358
Speaker 1: is one of these I'm curious to see, Joe if

701
00:32:31,358 --> 00:32:33,118
Speaker 1: you've got a comp to someone like this that you

702
00:32:33,158 --> 00:32:38,678
Speaker 1: played with, managed whatever, but superstar player, we know that.

703
00:32:39,118 --> 00:32:41,478
Speaker 1: But he gives you so much more. He rises to

704
00:32:41,518 --> 00:32:46,678
Speaker 1: the moment. He is extremely calm, and what he's doing

705
00:32:46,838 --> 00:32:50,118
Speaker 1: this year and especially this postseason, to me, is reminiscent

706
00:32:50,118 --> 00:32:52,358
Speaker 1: of Derek Jeter at nineteen ninety six, where to me,

707
00:32:52,398 --> 00:32:54,558
Speaker 1: it seemed like Jeter was batting out of order because

708
00:32:54,558 --> 00:32:57,238
Speaker 1: he was up there all the time when anything happened.

709
00:32:57,398 --> 00:32:59,038
Speaker 1: If you go back and look at the ninety six

710
00:32:59,118 --> 00:33:01,998
Speaker 1: Yankees and how they came from behind in won big games,

711
00:33:02,678 --> 00:33:05,358
Speaker 1: Jeter is in the middle or at the finish of

712
00:33:05,478 --> 00:33:07,798
Speaker 1: every one of those rallies. And I look at Lindor

713
00:33:07,798 --> 00:33:10,398
Speaker 1: and I see the same thing happening. Go back to

714
00:33:10,438 --> 00:33:12,758
Speaker 1: early in the season when Carlos Mendoz, when he was

715
00:33:12,798 --> 00:33:15,918
Speaker 1: struggling by the way Lindor was struggling, Carlos Mendoza made

716
00:33:15,918 --> 00:33:17,958
Speaker 1: the great move of putting him in the leadoff spot. Now,

717
00:33:17,958 --> 00:33:21,158
Speaker 1: Francisco hasn't been a full time leadoff hitter in five years,

718
00:33:21,918 --> 00:33:24,598
Speaker 1: but what Mendoza thought was, this is going to force

719
00:33:24,718 --> 00:33:26,518
Speaker 1: it takes some pressure off him. Where doesn't feel like

720
00:33:26,558 --> 00:33:28,318
Speaker 1: he has to hit home runs and drive in runs,

721
00:33:28,558 --> 00:33:31,038
Speaker 1: but to see pitches and get on base. That's exactly

722
00:33:31,198 --> 00:33:34,438
Speaker 1: what has happened, and he has flourished in that role.

723
00:33:35,118 --> 00:33:37,598
Speaker 1: A few weeks later, that's when they had that awful

724
00:33:37,638 --> 00:33:41,278
Speaker 1: game against the Dodgers. They're twenty two and thirty three

725
00:33:41,998 --> 00:33:44,438
Speaker 1: players only meeting after the game. Who called the meeting

726
00:33:44,758 --> 00:33:48,118
Speaker 1: Francisco Lindor. Then you get late in the season, of course,

727
00:33:48,118 --> 00:33:50,118
Speaker 1: the home run in Game one sixty one that puts

728
00:33:50,158 --> 00:33:52,798
Speaker 1: him in the postseason off. Iglesias turned a loss into

729
00:33:52,838 --> 00:33:55,558
Speaker 1: a win, clinch a playoff spot with that. Then you

730
00:33:55,638 --> 00:33:58,118
Speaker 1: go back to the rally against Devin Williams that clinched

731
00:33:58,118 --> 00:34:00,678
Speaker 1: the Division Series. Alonso, Yeah, I hit the home run,

732
00:34:00,758 --> 00:34:03,838
Speaker 1: But how did it begin? It began with Lindor working

733
00:34:04,078 --> 00:34:06,518
Speaker 1: a walk off Williams after falling behind one and two

734
00:34:06,558 --> 00:34:09,838
Speaker 1: on the count. We talked about the home run against Estivus,

735
00:34:10,038 --> 00:34:12,798
Speaker 1: the Grand Slam in the clincher of the ds I.

736
00:34:12,798 --> 00:34:15,478
Speaker 1: Now we talk about losing nine to nothing in Game

737
00:34:15,518 --> 00:34:19,678
Speaker 1: one of this CS and Lindor comes back the next afternoon,

738
00:34:20,238 --> 00:34:22,798
Speaker 1: sees nine pitches, hits the ninth one out of the ballpark.

739
00:34:23,238 --> 00:34:25,398
Speaker 1: This guy's just got more than a knack, Joe and

740
00:34:25,438 --> 00:34:28,358
Speaker 1: the other thing, And I'm I'm curious how you look

741
00:34:28,358 --> 00:34:31,358
Speaker 1: at this, Joe. I'm down there next to the Mets dugout,

742
00:34:31,518 --> 00:34:33,958
Speaker 1: and I can tell you I have not seen a

743
00:34:34,038 --> 00:34:38,158
Speaker 1: player who engaged with his teammates more during a game.

744
00:34:38,198 --> 00:34:42,278
Speaker 1: I'm talking about what he sees on the field and

745
00:34:42,358 --> 00:34:45,438
Speaker 1: telling them what's going on, what he sees in the pitcher,

746
00:34:45,558 --> 00:34:49,558
Speaker 1: patters are developing, pulling guys aside. It's constant in there.

747
00:34:49,558 --> 00:34:51,998
Speaker 1: And I asked him about that and he said, listen,

748
00:34:51,998 --> 00:34:55,158
Speaker 1: we're all prepared with information. We have all the numbers,

749
00:34:55,198 --> 00:34:57,638
Speaker 1: we know the scouting reports, we have hitters meetings before

750
00:34:57,678 --> 00:35:01,118
Speaker 1: the game, but there's nothing like your view from the

751
00:35:01,158 --> 00:35:03,638
Speaker 1: batter's box. And he said, that's what I do. I'll

752
00:35:03,678 --> 00:35:05,998
Speaker 1: go the players and say, you know, his fastball is

753
00:35:06,078 --> 00:35:09,118
Speaker 1: running today, or it's cutting today, or he's in a

754
00:35:09,158 --> 00:35:12,078
Speaker 1: pattern with when he uses his breaking ball early in account.

755
00:35:12,318 --> 00:35:15,278
Speaker 1: He's passing these things on to everybody, whether it's other

756
00:35:15,318 --> 00:35:17,758
Speaker 1: young players are veteran players. And I can tell you, Joe,

757
00:35:17,758 --> 00:35:20,838
Speaker 1: I've not seen a player. I've been in everybody's dugout,

758
00:35:21,318 --> 00:35:23,558
Speaker 1: but I've not seen a great player who is so

759
00:35:23,838 --> 00:35:28,118
Speaker 1: integral to how a team adjusts in real time in

760
00:35:28,158 --> 00:35:30,158
Speaker 1: the course of a game. And I think that makes

761
00:35:30,198 --> 00:35:32,838
Speaker 1: them even more valuable than what we know of Francisco

762
00:35:32,958 --> 00:35:34,078
Speaker 1: Lindor with his skills.

763
00:35:34,438 --> 00:35:36,958
Speaker 3: Every team wants that. Every team talks about that.

764
00:35:37,318 --> 00:35:40,078
Speaker 2: When it comes to we just say offensively hitters right now,

765
00:35:40,638 --> 00:35:42,318
Speaker 2: you'll have that in the beginning of the season, you'll

766
00:35:42,318 --> 00:35:44,558
Speaker 2: have that meeting and you'll see.

767
00:35:44,718 --> 00:35:45,958
Speaker 3: Guys talking to one another.

768
00:35:46,038 --> 00:35:48,358
Speaker 2: The guy that just hit coming back, he'll talk to

769
00:35:48,398 --> 00:35:50,438
Speaker 2: the guy coming up to the plate, or definitely talk

770
00:35:50,478 --> 00:35:52,198
Speaker 2: to the guy in the hole. I'll get in a

771
00:35:52,278 --> 00:35:55,358
Speaker 2: dugout and pass along some information, so you have that.

772
00:35:55,478 --> 00:35:58,598
Speaker 2: I mean, that's not like that's unusual. I can't tell

773
00:35:58,638 --> 00:36:03,278
Speaker 2: you that I've had a guy that does everything you're

774
00:36:03,318 --> 00:36:06,278
Speaker 2: describing with Lindor, I can't. I've had some really good

775
00:36:06,278 --> 00:36:09,358
Speaker 2: players I wrote down Longo. Longo had some really big

776
00:36:09,438 --> 00:36:11,838
Speaker 2: hits for the Tampa Bay Rays. Longo came up in

777
00:36:11,878 --> 00:36:14,718
Speaker 2: twenty thousand and eight, two thousand and eight, and he

778
00:36:14,798 --> 00:36:15,558
Speaker 2: was a difference maker.

779
00:36:15,598 --> 00:36:18,198
Speaker 3: He's the guy that really helped set us apart.

780
00:36:18,238 --> 00:36:21,198
Speaker 2: That year we got to the World Series after losing

781
00:36:21,198 --> 00:36:23,078
Speaker 2: one hundred and some games and almost one hundred games.

782
00:36:23,078 --> 00:36:24,238
Speaker 2: And next year then all of a sudden, we win

783
00:36:24,358 --> 00:36:25,838
Speaker 2: ninety seven I think it wasn't ninety eight, and we

784
00:36:25,878 --> 00:36:26,758
Speaker 2: go to the World Series.

785
00:36:27,158 --> 00:36:30,518
Speaker 3: Longo was a huge part of that team.

786
00:36:30,638 --> 00:36:33,758
Speaker 2: Right there, I could talk about other guys on the field.

787
00:36:33,478 --> 00:36:36,758
Speaker 2: We had better players, Andrew did a great job of acquisitions,

788
00:36:36,798 --> 00:36:40,198
Speaker 2: but Longo had this thing, and he hit the home run,

789
00:36:40,278 --> 00:36:42,718
Speaker 2: that famous home ran on the left field line on

790
00:36:42,798 --> 00:36:44,838
Speaker 2: the best night in the history of baseball, when we

791
00:36:44,918 --> 00:36:47,638
Speaker 2: clinched over the Red Sox, Longo hit that home run.

792
00:36:47,678 --> 00:36:49,318
Speaker 1: Hey Joe, let me stop you there and ask you

793
00:36:49,318 --> 00:36:52,358
Speaker 1: about Longo. Sure, okay, because it reminds me a story

794
00:36:52,438 --> 00:36:55,318
Speaker 1: Dusty Baker likes to tell. He goes to Michigan and

795
00:36:55,398 --> 00:36:58,478
Speaker 1: talks to Bo Schenblecker, the great Michigan football coach, and

796
00:36:58,518 --> 00:37:02,518
Speaker 1: he said, Coach, you've got, you know, a freshman linebacker,

797
00:37:02,558 --> 00:37:07,038
Speaker 1: You've got a junior linebacker pretty similar in what they do.

798
00:37:07,358 --> 00:37:10,118
Speaker 1: How do you decide? You know which guy you're who's

799
00:37:10,118 --> 00:37:11,838
Speaker 1: going to be your captain, you know which guy you're

800
00:37:11,838 --> 00:37:13,838
Speaker 1: going to lean on, which guy is going to get

801
00:37:13,838 --> 00:37:15,958
Speaker 1: that big hit for you? And he said, I look

802
00:37:15,998 --> 00:37:20,078
Speaker 1: into their eyes. Can you tell something about a Longoria

803
00:37:20,518 --> 00:37:24,238
Speaker 1: or Lindor as a manager that this guy is not

804
00:37:24,318 --> 00:37:25,718
Speaker 1: going to be I don't even want to use the

805
00:37:25,718 --> 00:37:28,758
Speaker 1: word scared, but he's going to be calm in the

806
00:37:28,758 --> 00:37:29,838
Speaker 1: biggest moments.

807
00:37:30,398 --> 00:37:37,278
Speaker 2: There's definitely a conversationally, there's always an evenness probably the

808
00:37:37,318 --> 00:37:39,358
Speaker 2: best way I could describe it. And there's an even

809
00:37:39,438 --> 00:37:42,358
Speaker 2: quality about them when you speak with them before a game,

810
00:37:42,798 --> 00:37:44,718
Speaker 2: and then when you speak to them during the game,

811
00:37:44,878 --> 00:37:48,638
Speaker 2: same guy. There's there's no there's no vacillation here. It's

812
00:37:48,678 --> 00:37:51,118
Speaker 2: always you're always talking to the same dude. It doesn't

813
00:37:51,118 --> 00:37:52,118
Speaker 2: get too fast for him.

814
00:37:52,198 --> 00:37:52,438
Speaker 3: Ever.

815
00:37:52,998 --> 00:37:55,678
Speaker 2: A Longo had this great routine that he had him

816
00:37:55,718 --> 00:37:58,318
Speaker 2: and Kenny Rivisi put together. If you ever saw a

817
00:37:58,358 --> 00:38:01,158
Speaker 2: Longo come up to the plate, part of his routine

818
00:38:01,238 --> 00:38:02,798
Speaker 2: was to look up at the left field foul pole,

819
00:38:03,358 --> 00:38:05,198
Speaker 2: and by looking up to the left field foul pole,

820
00:38:05,278 --> 00:38:08,078
Speaker 2: that put him into a little mental rocking chair. That

821
00:38:08,118 --> 00:38:09,718
Speaker 2: got him into that little thing that he did with

822
00:38:09,758 --> 00:38:11,478
Speaker 2: the bat, that little rock kind of a thing that's

823
00:38:11,478 --> 00:38:14,318
Speaker 2: standing really tall, and he was so loose and quick

824
00:38:14,318 --> 00:38:16,198
Speaker 2: with the bathead, and the ball just exploded off of

825
00:38:16,238 --> 00:38:20,358
Speaker 2: his bat. He had this routine about himself. He knew his.

826
00:38:20,318 --> 00:38:23,798
Speaker 3: Prep was always the same. It never got too quick

827
00:38:23,798 --> 00:38:27,718
Speaker 3: for him. Defensively, same thing outstanding, third basement, not just

828
00:38:27,798 --> 00:38:28,718
Speaker 3: good outstanding.

829
00:38:29,158 --> 00:38:31,198
Speaker 2: So I think it has a lot to do. There's

830
00:38:31,238 --> 00:38:34,958
Speaker 2: this even temperedness about these guys that it's just nurtured

831
00:38:34,998 --> 00:38:37,078
Speaker 2: over time. I think, you know, Lindor came out for

832
00:38:37,078 --> 00:38:40,078
Speaker 2: Puerto Rico. Longo came from a great program at Long

833
00:38:40,118 --> 00:38:42,758
Speaker 2: Beach State, and a lot of it is the mental

834
00:38:42,758 --> 00:38:45,318
Speaker 2: component of the game that Longo I thought did so well,

835
00:38:45,598 --> 00:38:47,998
Speaker 2: and everything you're describing about Lindor is the same thing.

836
00:38:48,038 --> 00:38:49,038
Speaker 3: The mental part of the.

837
00:38:48,958 --> 00:38:52,198
Speaker 2: Game that he does so well, doesn't speed up on him.

838
00:38:52,278 --> 00:38:55,598
Speaker 2: He doesn't participate necessarily in history onics that are going

839
00:38:55,638 --> 00:38:58,238
Speaker 2: on today. He doesn't have to be part of bat

840
00:38:58,238 --> 00:39:01,118
Speaker 2: flipping and all this exorbitant ac celebration. I'm going to

841
00:39:01,118 --> 00:39:02,838
Speaker 2: go out there and play baseball and I'm going to

842
00:39:02,878 --> 00:39:03,918
Speaker 2: show my guys how to do it.

843
00:39:03,998 --> 00:39:04,678
Speaker 3: That's what he's doing.

844
00:39:04,998 --> 00:39:07,198
Speaker 2: Very professional for a lack of a better word about him,

845
00:39:07,198 --> 00:39:08,678
Speaker 2: And people say, oh, you mean to tell me if

846
00:39:08,678 --> 00:39:11,598
Speaker 2: a guy flips his back whatever he gets performs the

847
00:39:11,638 --> 00:39:14,478
Speaker 2: history onics and whatever, that he's not professional. There's there's

848
00:39:14,518 --> 00:39:16,838
Speaker 2: there's a certain component to that that it's part of

849
00:39:16,878 --> 00:39:19,878
Speaker 2: the you know, the the me me me society that

850
00:39:19,918 --> 00:39:22,318
Speaker 2: we have, even like NFL players celebrating in the end zone,

851
00:39:22,318 --> 00:39:24,398
Speaker 2: and I know people like that. I think it's really weird,

852
00:39:24,478 --> 00:39:27,198
Speaker 2: but there's a there's a mental component to these guys

853
00:39:27,198 --> 00:39:30,758
Speaker 2: that is steady and bad or good.

854
00:39:30,878 --> 00:39:32,398
Speaker 3: It's not just about good.

855
00:39:32,198 --> 00:39:34,518
Speaker 2: When they're doing something well, when they're doing something's not

856
00:39:34,598 --> 00:39:37,438
Speaker 2: going so well. Same guy you heard Lindor all season

857
00:39:37,438 --> 00:39:39,398
Speaker 2: when things weren't going well for the Mets. He was

858
00:39:39,438 --> 00:39:42,358
Speaker 2: the voice of reason constantly. He had answered something, and

859
00:39:42,398 --> 00:39:44,918
Speaker 2: he answers the tough questions all the time, and he

860
00:39:44,998 --> 00:39:48,838
Speaker 2: does it in a very kind of succinct and direct way.

861
00:39:49,158 --> 00:39:50,078
Speaker 3: I love all that stuff.

862
00:39:50,078 --> 00:39:52,958
Speaker 2: So I think it's you look at the physical abilities,

863
00:39:52,958 --> 00:39:55,278
Speaker 2: but you really have to look at the mental capabilities

864
00:39:55,798 --> 00:39:57,878
Speaker 2: of these people in the ability to slow things down,

865
00:39:58,638 --> 00:40:02,318
Speaker 2: really don't get too powerfully in love with themselves when

866
00:40:02,358 --> 00:40:05,078
Speaker 2: it goes well, and don't necessar beat yourself up badly

867
00:40:05,118 --> 00:40:08,678
Speaker 2: when it doesn't. That's the way that that's Wheeland Dore plays,

868
00:40:08,678 --> 00:40:09,198
Speaker 2: and that's what I.

869
00:40:09,118 --> 00:40:12,398
Speaker 1: Love about it. Great stuff, Joe. I love the Longoria stuff,

870
00:40:12,798 --> 00:40:16,438
Speaker 1: a guy who I think historically is actually underrated and

871
00:40:16,478 --> 00:40:18,918
Speaker 1: obviously an important part of your Pennant winning team with

872
00:40:18,958 --> 00:40:21,198
Speaker 1: Tampa Bay. Hey, we'll take a quick break. We mentioned

873
00:40:21,238 --> 00:40:24,078
Speaker 1: the Phillies. We'll also talk about the Padres. What happened

874
00:40:24,558 --> 00:40:26,998
Speaker 1: to a couple of teams that look like they would

875
00:40:26,998 --> 00:40:28,318
Speaker 1: be World Series contenders.

876
00:40:28,718 --> 00:40:43,798
Speaker 4: We'll dive into that right after this, the Philadelphia Phillies Joe.

877
00:40:44,558 --> 00:40:44,838
Speaker 3: Wow.

878
00:40:45,358 --> 00:40:48,878
Speaker 1: Disappointment for me because not just because I thought they

879
00:40:48,878 --> 00:40:52,398
Speaker 1: were a World Series team, but they really didn't show

880
00:40:52,438 --> 00:40:54,558
Speaker 1: well against the New York Mets. And to me, it

881
00:40:54,598 --> 00:40:57,918
Speaker 1: came down to one word, and that is chase. I

882
00:40:58,078 --> 00:41:00,758
Speaker 1: just looked at the percentage of pitches in the strike

883
00:41:00,878 --> 00:41:02,998
Speaker 1: zone for each team in the postseason that they saw,

884
00:41:03,158 --> 00:41:07,078
Speaker 1: and the Phillies by far saw the fewest pitches in

885
00:41:07,118 --> 00:41:11,838
Speaker 1: the strike zone. They just had a lot of similar players,

886
00:41:12,598 --> 00:41:16,398
Speaker 1: and again, I look for a lot of balance, but listen,

887
00:41:16,598 --> 00:41:18,678
Speaker 1: you're not gonna win a pennanty and you chase outside

888
00:41:18,678 --> 00:41:20,398
Speaker 1: of the strike zone. As much as the Phillies did,

889
00:41:20,438 --> 00:41:23,958
Speaker 1: I don't know whether they felt, you know, enormous expectations.

890
00:41:25,158 --> 00:41:27,838
Speaker 1: There were definitely a lot on this team. They looked

891
00:41:27,838 --> 00:41:29,918
Speaker 1: like a team that was battle tested. So I'm not

892
00:41:29,998 --> 00:41:32,478
Speaker 1: saying the moment got them. I think more you look

893
00:41:32,518 --> 00:41:34,278
Speaker 1: at the team, Joe, the way it's built, and they

894
00:41:34,278 --> 00:41:36,998
Speaker 1: have a lot of similar hitters and even Bryce Harper,

895
00:41:37,118 --> 00:41:39,438
Speaker 1: it's just part of their mo that they're going to chase,

896
00:41:39,438 --> 00:41:41,838
Speaker 1: and you see in the postseason, good teams can take

897
00:41:41,838 --> 00:41:44,038
Speaker 1: advantage of that. And I think the Mets did a

898
00:41:44,078 --> 00:41:48,478
Speaker 1: tremendous job of taking the Phillies aggressiveness and turning it

899
00:41:48,718 --> 00:41:50,878
Speaker 1: against them, and you can say Arizona did the same

900
00:41:50,918 --> 00:41:51,638
Speaker 1: thing last year.

901
00:41:52,038 --> 00:41:55,238
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean that's where you know that to borrow

902
00:41:55,318 --> 00:41:58,678
Speaker 2: some phrases, the large sample size works during the regular season, right,

903
00:41:58,758 --> 00:42:01,478
Speaker 2: it's like one hundred and sixty two games, you're gonna

904
00:42:01,478 --> 00:42:03,278
Speaker 2: go through, you get ebb and flow, We're gonna chase

905
00:42:03,318 --> 00:42:05,038
Speaker 2: a little bit, and all of a sudden we to stop chase.

906
00:42:05,078 --> 00:42:06,838
Speaker 3: We're just going to batter you for like two or

907
00:42:06,878 --> 00:42:07,438
Speaker 3: three weeks.

908
00:42:08,038 --> 00:42:09,718
Speaker 2: We get the record back in good shape, and all

909
00:42:09,718 --> 00:42:11,878
Speaker 2: of a sudden, it comes another bad week. Everything starts

910
00:42:12,238 --> 00:42:15,038
Speaker 2: trending in the wrong direction, we start chasing, et cetera,

911
00:42:15,078 --> 00:42:16,958
Speaker 2: and then balances out of it. Because I think there

912
00:42:17,038 --> 00:42:18,718
Speaker 2: was just a five hundred team for the majority of

913
00:42:18,758 --> 00:42:19,038
Speaker 2: the season.

914
00:42:19,158 --> 00:42:21,638
Speaker 3: Philly's correct. After a really good start.

915
00:42:21,878 --> 00:42:24,078
Speaker 1: Well great start, they look like the best team in

916
00:42:24,118 --> 00:42:26,238
Speaker 1: baseball the first two months. But yeah, especially in the

917
00:42:26,318 --> 00:42:28,038
Speaker 1: second half of the season, it seemed like once they

918
00:42:28,038 --> 00:42:30,958
Speaker 1: got back from London and like mid June, yeah, that

919
00:42:31,078 --> 00:42:33,238
Speaker 1: was a long time, they played mediocre baseball.

920
00:42:33,558 --> 00:42:35,758
Speaker 2: They did, so, you know, so in the large the

921
00:42:35,798 --> 00:42:37,998
Speaker 2: regular season, the large sample size works.

922
00:42:37,998 --> 00:42:39,358
Speaker 3: You could you could vacillate so much.

923
00:42:39,398 --> 00:42:41,438
Speaker 2: But this has always been my argument with when it

924
00:42:41,438 --> 00:42:43,798
Speaker 2: comes down to prefer for game and analytics, it's the

925
00:42:43,878 --> 00:42:46,318
Speaker 2: trends that matter. So you talk about a team that's

926
00:42:46,358 --> 00:42:48,558
Speaker 2: built for the playoffs or not, I never really bought

927
00:42:48,598 --> 00:42:50,278
Speaker 2: into that. I'm just paying a little bit more attention

928
00:42:50,358 --> 00:42:54,278
Speaker 2: to it now what that really means. And right now

929
00:42:54,838 --> 00:42:58,638
Speaker 2: it's a playoff series is a trend. It's not a

930
00:42:58,718 --> 00:43:00,718
Speaker 2: large sample size. It's a trend, and you can you

931
00:43:01,198 --> 00:43:03,758
Speaker 2: can you work your way through this particular trend this moment.

932
00:43:04,038 --> 00:43:07,718
Speaker 2: Judge not playing performing well, but other guys are picking

933
00:43:07,758 --> 00:43:10,678
Speaker 2: this up because they're augmented and they're just not relying

934
00:43:10,678 --> 00:43:12,718
Speaker 2: on one factor in this situation.

935
00:43:13,598 --> 00:43:15,718
Speaker 3: So it's not okay to chase.

936
00:43:16,198 --> 00:43:18,798
Speaker 2: It's not right now you're just describe the Yankees and

937
00:43:18,798 --> 00:43:22,238
Speaker 2: how they beat the Royals and how they're in the

938
00:43:22,278 --> 00:43:25,238
Speaker 2: first game to be the same group with the Guardians.

939
00:43:25,838 --> 00:43:28,558
Speaker 3: The trend there is they're not chasing. And if you're

940
00:43:28,598 --> 00:43:30,958
Speaker 3: not chasing, your hitting. I said, tell j T Snow

941
00:43:30,998 --> 00:43:32,918
Speaker 3: this all the time. I love Jackie Snow.

942
00:43:33,358 --> 00:43:35,558
Speaker 2: Jackie, let's sent back to the minor leagues for a

943
00:43:35,558 --> 00:43:38,398
Speaker 2: bit when he was there, and I worked with him

944
00:43:38,438 --> 00:43:41,278
Speaker 2: as a hitter, and I usually say to Jackie when

945
00:43:41,318 --> 00:43:42,838
Speaker 2: he comes down to first base, to a coach in

946
00:43:42,878 --> 00:43:43,478
Speaker 2: first base.

947
00:43:43,358 --> 00:43:45,358
Speaker 3: Jackie, when you're walking, you're hitting.

948
00:43:45,998 --> 00:43:48,358
Speaker 2: And it just really comes down to that, once you

949
00:43:48,438 --> 00:43:52,438
Speaker 2: have your strike zone organized, you can hit to your capabilities.

950
00:43:52,438 --> 00:43:54,838
Speaker 2: Whether you're a three hundred hitter or a two fifty

951
00:43:54,878 --> 00:43:57,998
Speaker 2: hit or whatever you are, whatever that max component of

952
00:43:58,038 --> 00:44:01,598
Speaker 2: your abilities is, you'll be able to reach that if

953
00:44:01,638 --> 00:44:04,918
Speaker 2: you have this part of your game under control, if

954
00:44:04,918 --> 00:44:08,078
Speaker 2: you have your organized strike zone. So you're talking about

955
00:44:08,078 --> 00:44:10,638
Speaker 2: the large sample size the Phillies, Yeah, they chase, so

956
00:44:10,918 --> 00:44:12,638
Speaker 2: they're gonna bludge in you for a bit, and sometimes

957
00:44:12,678 --> 00:44:14,478
Speaker 2: they're not. But where you get a group like the

958
00:44:14,558 --> 00:44:17,358
Speaker 2: Yankees or the Old Red Sox whatever, where their large

959
00:44:17,358 --> 00:44:20,118
Speaker 2: sample size was that they didn't chase, that they did

960
00:44:20,438 --> 00:44:23,558
Speaker 2: evaluate pitches. So when you get to a smaller trendy

961
00:44:23,638 --> 00:44:26,358
Speaker 2: situation like a playoff game, they have a better chance

962
00:44:26,558 --> 00:44:30,518
Speaker 2: of taking this too. The more opportunity for the Phillies

963
00:44:30,558 --> 00:44:33,158
Speaker 2: to continue to swing at everything, greater opportunity for the

964
00:44:33,238 --> 00:44:36,318
Speaker 2: Yankees to not right now and really organize their strike zone.

965
00:44:36,358 --> 00:44:37,678
Speaker 3: So that's what's going on.

966
00:44:37,718 --> 00:44:42,838
Speaker 2: It's not complicated, and you talked about it earlier while

967
00:44:42,878 --> 00:44:44,678
Speaker 2: you like the Yankees, and I think you're right. I mean,

968
00:44:44,678 --> 00:44:47,638
Speaker 2: and I think that's what you have to what got

969
00:44:47,678 --> 00:44:50,478
Speaker 2: you here? And is it sustainable? Is it work in

970
00:44:50,478 --> 00:44:53,958
Speaker 2: a small situation, a small seven game series, even three

971
00:44:53,998 --> 00:44:57,158
Speaker 2: game series, two a five game series. So the trends matter.

972
00:44:57,198 --> 00:44:59,598
Speaker 2: I've always been a trend guy. What's going on right now,

973
00:45:00,158 --> 00:45:02,118
Speaker 2: and that's why I think, like you're talking about, the

974
00:45:02,198 --> 00:45:04,438
Speaker 2: Yankees have a pretty good chance of being well. Actually,

975
00:45:04,438 --> 00:45:06,918
Speaker 2: all four teams have got here for different reasons. But

976
00:45:07,638 --> 00:45:11,598
Speaker 2: the Yankees look like the Yankees their typical DNA m

977
00:45:11,638 --> 00:45:16,118
Speaker 2: O right now, and whereas the Phillies totally also followed

978
00:45:16,118 --> 00:45:18,718
Speaker 2: their DNA and they continued to struggle by expanding the

979
00:45:18,758 --> 00:45:19,398
Speaker 2: strike zones.

980
00:45:19,638 --> 00:45:21,998
Speaker 1: Yeah, and listen, Philly, they're kind of locked in with

981
00:45:22,078 --> 00:45:24,998
Speaker 1: their roster. There's not much they can do to pivot.

982
00:45:25,038 --> 00:45:27,358
Speaker 1: This is the you know, this is the roster they

983
00:45:27,358 --> 00:45:29,558
Speaker 1: have and a lot of long term deals, so I

984
00:45:29,558 --> 00:45:32,078
Speaker 1: don't look for big changes. I want to get your

985
00:45:32,118 --> 00:45:34,278
Speaker 1: take on this, Joe, and that's Alec Boehm, the third

986
00:45:34,318 --> 00:45:36,478
Speaker 1: baseman in the first half of the season. He was

987
00:45:36,518 --> 00:45:39,158
Speaker 1: probably their best RBI producer. He's the guy you wanted

988
00:45:39,238 --> 00:45:41,318
Speaker 1: up there in the big spot. He uses the whole field.

989
00:45:41,398 --> 00:45:43,438
Speaker 1: He's a great breaking ball hitter. You see a lot

990
00:45:43,438 --> 00:45:47,518
Speaker 1: of breaking balls with rathers in scoring position, and he did,

991
00:45:47,638 --> 00:45:50,158
Speaker 1: and actually in his career he's done really well in

992
00:45:50,198 --> 00:45:54,758
Speaker 1: those spots. He hurt his hand early in September and

993
00:45:54,838 --> 00:45:58,198
Speaker 1: when he got back, he just was not the same player.

994
00:45:58,278 --> 00:46:01,198
Speaker 1: I mean, just a dreadful slump that carried into the

995
00:46:01,198 --> 00:46:04,118
Speaker 1: postseason and it's like they lost one of the their

996
00:46:04,198 --> 00:46:06,918
Speaker 1: key RBI guys in the middle of the lineup. There's

997
00:46:06,958 --> 00:46:09,758
Speaker 1: one day, but Rob Thompson actually sat him down and

998
00:46:10,278 --> 00:46:13,398
Speaker 1: one of the things that Rob saw was that emotionally

999
00:46:13,438 --> 00:46:15,358
Speaker 1: it was eating this guy up, and I saw it

1000
00:46:15,398 --> 00:46:17,918
Speaker 1: down there in the dugout, you know, throwing helmets. The

1001
00:46:17,918 --> 00:46:23,238
Speaker 1: body language was just terrible frustrated. That's what I saw,

1002
00:46:23,278 --> 00:46:26,198
Speaker 1: a guy who was really, really frustrated. Rob Thompson made

1003
00:46:26,238 --> 00:46:27,958
Speaker 1: an interesting point, and this is what I wanted to

1004
00:46:27,958 --> 00:46:29,878
Speaker 1: get your take on Joe. He said he's done a

1005
00:46:29,878 --> 00:46:32,518
Speaker 1: really good job Alec Bowe from not taking his offense

1006
00:46:32,558 --> 00:46:35,038
Speaker 1: out to defense, which is great because the knock on

1007
00:46:35,118 --> 00:46:37,438
Speaker 1: Alec early on was that he was not a plus defender,

1008
00:46:37,518 --> 00:46:40,038
Speaker 1: but he's made himself a pretty good one. So his

1009
00:46:40,078 --> 00:46:43,158
Speaker 1: offensive struggles did not bleed into his defense. That's great,

1010
00:46:43,478 --> 00:46:45,318
Speaker 1: but he said, what they're trying to get him to

1011
00:46:45,398 --> 00:46:49,798
Speaker 1: do is not to let one at bat bleed into another.

1012
00:46:49,958 --> 00:46:53,558
Speaker 1: One bad game bleed into another, even one bad swing

1013
00:46:54,278 --> 00:46:57,158
Speaker 1: bleed into another. In other words, he was never really

1014
00:46:57,358 --> 00:47:02,238
Speaker 1: able to stop this runaway train of a slump because

1015
00:47:02,278 --> 00:47:05,118
Speaker 1: he was working off that line swing or the last

1016
00:47:05,158 --> 00:47:07,718
Speaker 1: pitch that he didn't hit. It's an interesting thing to

1017
00:47:07,758 --> 00:47:09,438
Speaker 1: see on the big league level, Joe, and I'm not

1018
00:47:09,478 --> 00:47:11,878
Speaker 1: sure what the answer is, but they were unable to

1019
00:47:11,918 --> 00:47:13,078
Speaker 1: get this guy on track.

1020
00:47:13,718 --> 00:47:16,238
Speaker 2: That's the We just talked about the mental approach with

1021
00:47:16,278 --> 00:47:18,278
Speaker 2: a couple guys before Lindor and Longo. I mean, it

1022
00:47:18,318 --> 00:47:20,158
Speaker 2: really comes down to that, and that's why I'm an

1023
00:47:20,158 --> 00:47:24,278
Speaker 2: advocate of really having a strong mental skills program in

1024
00:47:24,358 --> 00:47:25,518
Speaker 2: all these organizations.

1025
00:47:25,758 --> 00:47:27,638
Speaker 3: I know some are more into it, others or not.

1026
00:47:28,558 --> 00:47:30,918
Speaker 2: And I had the best So I had Kenny Riviizev

1027
00:47:31,038 --> 00:47:33,118
Speaker 2: since the mid eighties until he passed a couple of

1028
00:47:33,158 --> 00:47:38,318
Speaker 2: years ago. That's guys like him, like Kenny matter. They

1029
00:47:38,478 --> 00:47:43,558
Speaker 2: absolutely matter. This kid here just needs some kind of structure,

1030
00:47:44,318 --> 00:47:47,398
Speaker 2: just like he needs a hitting coach, or like whatever

1031
00:47:47,438 --> 00:47:50,038
Speaker 2: the pitchers are, they need their pitching coach. You also

1032
00:47:50,118 --> 00:47:53,318
Speaker 2: need a mental skills coach. It's no different than teaching

1033
00:47:53,358 --> 00:47:55,798
Speaker 2: hitting or pitching or fielding as far as I'm concerned.

1034
00:47:56,358 --> 00:47:58,718
Speaker 2: When you don't come equipped with the ability to slow

1035
00:47:58,758 --> 00:48:01,158
Speaker 2: things down or just file things or just throw them

1036
00:48:01,158 --> 00:48:03,198
Speaker 2: in the garbage can when it's not too good, and

1037
00:48:03,358 --> 00:48:06,238
Speaker 2: also not getting overly exuberant when it does go well.

1038
00:48:06,438 --> 00:48:07,478
Speaker 3: That is a skill.

1039
00:48:07,958 --> 00:48:11,558
Speaker 2: And I definitely believe you love the guys that come

1040
00:48:11,598 --> 00:48:14,758
Speaker 2: with bells and whistles. It's already attached nice, it's part

1041
00:48:14,798 --> 00:48:17,278
Speaker 2: of the standard equipment. They already got it. But there's

1042
00:48:17,318 --> 00:48:20,438
Speaker 2: certain guys that don't. And I do know for a fact,

1043
00:48:20,478 --> 00:48:22,078
Speaker 2: and I've seen it, that it can be.

1044
00:48:23,158 --> 00:48:23,958
Speaker 3: It can be taught.

1045
00:48:24,118 --> 00:48:25,638
Speaker 2: It can be taught to the point where it could

1046
00:48:25,638 --> 00:48:29,398
Speaker 2: absolutely be incorporated in hot moments when things aren't going well,

1047
00:48:30,158 --> 00:48:33,358
Speaker 2: no question in my mind. So exactly whe I would

1048
00:48:33,358 --> 00:48:36,078
Speaker 2: start with him, I more than his First of all,

1049
00:48:36,078 --> 00:48:38,238
Speaker 2: he's injured, so there's there's something to be said for that.

1050
00:48:39,518 --> 00:48:41,558
Speaker 2: Who knows how he felt and what the fat felt

1051
00:48:41,598 --> 00:48:43,638
Speaker 2: like in his hand, or how much pain he actually

1052
00:48:43,638 --> 00:48:47,278
Speaker 2: had when he swung whatever. But I definitely believe more

1053
00:48:47,278 --> 00:48:50,598
Speaker 2: attention to mental skills, and I don't there's there's not

1054
00:48:50,798 --> 00:48:52,438
Speaker 2: as many of those guys.

1055
00:48:52,158 --> 00:48:53,518
Speaker 3: Available right now, at least I don't.

1056
00:48:53,598 --> 00:48:55,278
Speaker 2: I'm not around enough, so I shouldn't even say this,

1057
00:48:55,358 --> 00:48:58,558
Speaker 2: But there's not as many gurus like you know, Harvey

1058
00:48:58,598 --> 00:49:01,038
Speaker 2: Dorfinn back in the day, Carl Keel back in the

1059
00:49:01,118 --> 00:49:03,998
Speaker 2: day with Oakland, and then we had Kendra visit with

1060
00:49:04,038 --> 00:49:08,318
Speaker 2: the Angels. Kenny's even worked with the New Zealand Blacks,

1061
00:49:08,398 --> 00:49:13,198
Speaker 2: the rugby team out there rugby right, I mean, he's

1062
00:49:13,198 --> 00:49:17,318
Speaker 2: been everywhere. I mean, all these tremendously successful organizations wanted

1063
00:49:17,358 --> 00:49:19,798
Speaker 2: Kenny to be part of them. For me, for Bom,

1064
00:49:19,878 --> 00:49:22,198
Speaker 2: that's why would focus in the offseason going to next

1065
00:49:22,238 --> 00:49:23,358
Speaker 2: season good stuff.

1066
00:49:23,438 --> 00:49:25,838
Speaker 1: Let's talk about the San Diego Padres, and here, Joe,

1067
00:49:25,918 --> 00:49:28,598
Speaker 1: I think it's I actually thought going into the postseason,

1068
00:49:28,638 --> 00:49:30,958
Speaker 1: not into the regular season, but into the postseason, I

1069
00:49:30,998 --> 00:49:33,118
Speaker 1: thought they were best equipped to win the World Series.

1070
00:49:33,838 --> 00:49:35,758
Speaker 1: And to me, it's a good example of what happens

1071
00:49:35,758 --> 00:49:38,798
Speaker 1: in these small sample sizes. I didn't see an obvious

1072
00:49:38,838 --> 00:49:41,398
Speaker 1: flaw or reason why they didn't get by the Dodgers.

1073
00:49:41,518 --> 00:49:43,278
Speaker 1: They were up two games to one in the series,

1074
00:49:43,278 --> 00:49:46,798
Speaker 1: couldn't close it out. Mike Schilt sent Dylan Ceas out

1075
00:49:46,838 --> 00:49:49,318
Speaker 1: to the mound on short rest, and he did not

1076
00:49:49,678 --> 00:49:52,958
Speaker 1: provide a good start. Simple as that just didn't have it.

1077
00:49:53,958 --> 00:49:57,718
Speaker 1: I like Dylan Sees a lot, but I've seen it

1078
00:49:57,758 --> 00:50:00,438
Speaker 1: happen with him. Sometimes his command gets a little squirrely

1079
00:50:01,078 --> 00:50:04,758
Speaker 1: and then you darbush It puts really well in Game five,

1080
00:50:04,878 --> 00:50:08,398
Speaker 1: but just got outpitched by Yamamoto and the Dodger bullpen.

1081
00:50:09,278 --> 00:50:10,878
Speaker 1: I like the team a lot. I think they came

1082
00:50:10,918 --> 00:50:12,838
Speaker 1: a long way. I think Mike Schilt did an incredible

1083
00:50:12,918 --> 00:50:16,838
Speaker 1: job with this group that was, let's face it, underachieving

1084
00:50:16,878 --> 00:50:20,638
Speaker 1: and quite frankly fractured the previous season, and he brought

1085
00:50:20,638 --> 00:50:23,678
Speaker 1: that team together and they had a great second half run.

1086
00:50:24,438 --> 00:50:27,318
Speaker 1: As I said, they just couldn't finish off the Dodgers.

1087
00:50:27,358 --> 00:50:29,518
Speaker 1: But I think it was just a matter of a

1088
00:50:29,598 --> 00:50:32,158
Speaker 1: short sample size. What's your take on San Diego?

1089
00:50:32,278 --> 00:50:33,758
Speaker 3: Well, yeah, I mean the Ceas thing.

1090
00:50:34,158 --> 00:50:37,438
Speaker 2: The short rest always bothered me. With today's pitchers. Today,

1091
00:50:37,478 --> 00:50:39,198
Speaker 2: starting pitchers, they're not used to doing it.

1092
00:50:39,238 --> 00:50:41,078
Speaker 1: Well, first of all, let me stop you there, okay,

1093
00:50:41,078 --> 00:50:44,118
Speaker 1: because we say short rest, that's traditionally three days, right,

1094
00:50:44,118 --> 00:50:46,558
Speaker 1: What did he have the majority of starts in the

1095
00:50:46,598 --> 00:50:49,078
Speaker 1: major leagues these days and it has been now for

1096
00:50:49,158 --> 00:50:53,878
Speaker 1: several years, is five plus days? Four days is actually

1097
00:50:53,958 --> 00:50:57,598
Speaker 1: short rest now for most starting pitchers. Very few pitchers

1098
00:50:57,638 --> 00:51:00,598
Speaker 1: make the majority of their starts on four days. So

1099
00:51:00,758 --> 00:51:04,598
Speaker 1: when you're going and got three days, that's short short rest.

1100
00:51:05,358 --> 00:51:07,558
Speaker 3: Go ahead, that's dramatic. Yeah, I mean, that's the thing.

1101
00:51:07,718 --> 00:51:10,078
Speaker 2: Whatever your regular program is, and when they when they

1102
00:51:10,118 --> 00:51:11,078
Speaker 2: get away from that.

1103
00:51:12,038 --> 00:51:14,518
Speaker 3: It's hard to expect a good result. It just is.

1104
00:51:15,598 --> 00:51:18,118
Speaker 2: I didn't realize he was that short of resk because

1105
00:51:18,158 --> 00:51:21,198
Speaker 2: that my thing was the beginning of that series on

1106
00:51:21,358 --> 00:51:23,638
Speaker 2: MLB Network, they asked me the question, what do you

1107
00:51:23,678 --> 00:51:26,478
Speaker 2: feel about the cease not getting the ball for the

1108
00:51:26,518 --> 00:51:28,398
Speaker 2: first game, holding him back and they gave it to

1109
00:51:28,478 --> 00:51:30,998
Speaker 2: King instead, And part of it was for me it

1110
00:51:31,038 --> 00:51:33,478
Speaker 2: was like San Diego knows who they think their best.

1111
00:51:33,278 --> 00:51:36,238
Speaker 1: Picture exactly, and King was their best picture.

1112
00:51:35,958 --> 00:51:38,278
Speaker 2: Correct, So they knew that, so that I didn't know

1113
00:51:38,318 --> 00:51:40,678
Speaker 2: that because I didn't watch them often enough. But that's

1114
00:51:40,758 --> 00:51:43,318
Speaker 2: that was my conclusion after watching all that, So to

1115
00:51:43,318 --> 00:51:45,998
Speaker 2: bring him back on short rest, see to me, I'd

1116
00:51:46,038 --> 00:51:49,358
Speaker 2: be more I think, because again I'm not there, but

1117
00:51:49,918 --> 00:51:52,998
Speaker 2: having Cease held back for possibly extra innings might have

1118
00:51:53,038 --> 00:51:56,438
Speaker 2: been more of a possibility. Got all this adrenaline flow.

1119
00:51:56,438 --> 00:51:57,718
Speaker 2: I know he's never done it before, but if you

1120
00:51:57,718 --> 00:51:58,358
Speaker 2: need him, he's there.

1121
00:51:58,398 --> 00:51:59,678
Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, let me give you the options.

1122
00:51:59,718 --> 00:51:59,918
Speaker 3: Okay.

1123
00:52:00,398 --> 00:52:04,758
Speaker 1: You could start Martine Perez okay, or you could go bullpen,

1124
00:52:04,998 --> 00:52:08,318
Speaker 1: start to finish bullpen game and then you have Darbish

1125
00:52:08,398 --> 00:52:10,878
Speaker 1: and Cease lined up for game number five.

1126
00:52:11,078 --> 00:52:11,398
Speaker 3: Gotcha.

1127
00:52:11,478 --> 00:52:13,598
Speaker 1: I think what Mike Schilt is thinking was, Hey, I've

1128
00:52:13,638 --> 00:52:16,918
Speaker 1: got Cese on short rest and Darvish. I'm going to

1129
00:52:16,958 --> 00:52:20,318
Speaker 1: fire both of those bullets. But you bringing up another option,

1130
00:52:20,518 --> 00:52:22,598
Speaker 1: and that is maybe you start the game with Perez

1131
00:52:22,798 --> 00:52:25,318
Speaker 1: and seeing how the game goes, you've got to Ceason

1132
00:52:25,358 --> 00:52:28,198
Speaker 1: the bullpen as an option if you want to do that.

1133
00:52:28,878 --> 00:52:29,078
Speaker 3: Yeah.

1134
00:52:29,238 --> 00:52:31,278
Speaker 2: I mean again, I'm not being there, not knowing all

1135
00:52:31,318 --> 00:52:34,038
Speaker 2: the facts and figures. I'm not even pretending that because

1136
00:52:34,078 --> 00:52:35,918
Speaker 2: I know how important it is that boots on the ground.

1137
00:52:35,998 --> 00:52:37,838
Speaker 2: You have to have your boots on the ground. You

1138
00:52:37,878 --> 00:52:39,438
Speaker 2: have to have a feel for the clubhouse. You've got

1139
00:52:39,478 --> 00:52:41,318
Speaker 2: to know these young men. You got to know what

1140
00:52:41,318 --> 00:52:43,318
Speaker 2: they're capable of doing, you know how they feel. You

1141
00:52:43,358 --> 00:52:45,598
Speaker 2: got to look in the eyeballs. All that stuff matters.

1142
00:52:45,598 --> 00:52:49,238
Speaker 2: So this is all conjecture based on information. So but

1143
00:52:49,358 --> 00:52:52,758
Speaker 2: for me, short rest always was concerning. And that was

1144
00:52:52,798 --> 00:52:54,398
Speaker 2: even when the guys were going on every fifth day

1145
00:52:54,398 --> 00:52:56,318
Speaker 2: with four days rest. Now you're like, you're saying, the

1146
00:52:56,998 --> 00:53:00,918
Speaker 2: norm is different right now, But yeah, that was the

1147
00:53:00,958 --> 00:53:03,998
Speaker 2: thing with the ce stare, with the short rest, and

1148
00:53:04,278 --> 00:53:06,958
Speaker 2: I was concern and that was it right there.

1149
00:53:07,038 --> 00:53:09,998
Speaker 3: Obviously, that was it. That's the Padres.

1150
00:53:10,918 --> 00:53:13,758
Speaker 2: After getting ahead like they got ahead and having to

1151
00:53:13,798 --> 00:53:15,558
Speaker 2: lose the last two games, we thought, and I thought,

1152
00:53:15,638 --> 00:53:18,558
Speaker 2: I mean, gosh, they have so much momentum. I'm watching

1153
00:53:18,598 --> 00:53:21,038
Speaker 2: the Dodgers in the dugout. To the Dodgers' credit, they

1154
00:53:21,038 --> 00:53:24,358
Speaker 2: looked so down, but they weren't. They were stoic. I

1155
00:53:24,358 --> 00:53:27,678
Speaker 2: mean they showed Dave Roberts in the dugout. David kind

1156
00:53:27,678 --> 00:53:29,238
Speaker 2: of had a decent look about him in spite of

1157
00:53:29,238 --> 00:53:31,558
Speaker 2: the factor of getting their butts kicked in that game three.

1158
00:53:31,838 --> 00:53:33,758
Speaker 2: So I got to give them credit, man, to be

1159
00:53:33,798 --> 00:53:36,718
Speaker 2: getting your butts kicked that badly and come back and pretty.

1160
00:53:36,558 --> 00:53:39,358
Speaker 3: Much decimate him over two games. That's pretty cool.

1161
00:53:39,478 --> 00:53:41,758
Speaker 2: So give the Dodgers a lot of credit because I

1162
00:53:41,798 --> 00:53:43,718
Speaker 2: really thought that the Padres had him down, but they

1163
00:53:43,758 --> 00:53:43,998
Speaker 2: did not.

1164
00:53:44,398 --> 00:53:48,398
Speaker 3: The Dodgers, with their veteranship and their pedigree, showed you why.

1165
00:53:48,558 --> 00:53:51,358
Speaker 1: Well, it's been a really good postseason. We've seen home

1166
00:53:51,358 --> 00:53:55,638
Speaker 1: field advantage means almost nothing. I think it's right now

1167
00:53:55,638 --> 00:53:58,398
Speaker 1: a flat five hundred winning percentage for a home field

1168
00:53:58,758 --> 00:54:01,758
Speaker 1: and we've already seen more comeback wins this postseason than

1169
00:54:01,758 --> 00:54:03,838
Speaker 1: we saw all of last year. So I think the

1170
00:54:03,998 --> 00:54:05,918
Speaker 1: games have been pretty good. But I think overall, Joe,

1171
00:54:05,918 --> 00:54:08,558
Speaker 1: we're looking at you know, this is nothing new in baseball.

1172
00:54:09,078 --> 00:54:13,798
Speaker 1: Bullpen's dominating the way the game is played. Most decisions

1173
00:54:13,838 --> 00:54:17,518
Speaker 1: managers are making in the postseason now are about bullpen usage.

1174
00:54:18,638 --> 00:54:20,798
Speaker 1: And it's interesting here as we get into the seven

1175
00:54:20,798 --> 00:54:25,478
Speaker 1: game series where managers like Dave Roberts are paying more

1176
00:54:25,478 --> 00:54:29,118
Speaker 1: attention to the longer haul when it comes to how

1177
00:54:29,118 --> 00:54:31,598
Speaker 1: they use their guys. So when we get to my

1178
00:54:31,638 --> 00:54:34,598
Speaker 1: favorites are always Joe, when we get to that sudden

1179
00:54:34,638 --> 00:54:37,558
Speaker 1: death game, the double elimination game, you know, Game five

1180
00:54:37,598 --> 00:54:40,158
Speaker 1: in the DS or Game seven and the LCS and

1181
00:54:40,278 --> 00:54:42,798
Speaker 1: I hope we get at least one, because that's Those

1182
00:54:42,798 --> 00:54:43,838
Speaker 1: are my favorite games.

1183
00:54:44,518 --> 00:54:46,158
Speaker 3: I'll tell you what they are. Hair raising.

1184
00:54:46,318 --> 00:54:50,318
Speaker 2: I've been in several and in those games. For me personally,

1185
00:54:50,918 --> 00:54:52,598
Speaker 2: I don't know the right word is agonized, but I

1186
00:54:52,598 --> 00:54:55,958
Speaker 2: would really sit and look at my stuff on paper

1187
00:54:56,438 --> 00:54:59,358
Speaker 2: in my hotel room the night before than the day of.

1188
00:54:59,678 --> 00:55:03,398
Speaker 2: I would always pour poor, poor over things. But at

1189
00:55:03,438 --> 00:55:06,078
Speaker 2: the end of the day they I always try to

1190
00:55:06,318 --> 00:55:09,038
Speaker 2: convince myself never to overthink it either, because I think

1191
00:55:09,078 --> 00:55:11,838
Speaker 2: that's a threat too, to try to come out of

1192
00:55:11,838 --> 00:55:16,318
Speaker 2: your normal patterns and try to whatever reach for whatever

1193
00:55:16,358 --> 00:55:21,038
Speaker 2: this panacee is, this thought or whatever the the remedy

1194
00:55:21,118 --> 00:55:22,598
Speaker 2: is to get this thing done. You just got to

1195
00:55:22,598 --> 00:55:24,278
Speaker 2: be pretty normal about it. But you have to have

1196
00:55:24,318 --> 00:55:29,158
Speaker 2: your plan, and it's it's it's interesting, it's fun, it's exhilarating,

1197
00:55:29,198 --> 00:55:31,158
Speaker 2: it's all kinds of different things. But I agree with you,

1198
00:55:31,158 --> 00:55:33,558
Speaker 2: it'd be wonderful to get to that point with these

1199
00:55:33,638 --> 00:55:36,358
Speaker 2: with these teams coming down to the end right now,

1200
00:55:37,078 --> 00:55:40,798
Speaker 2: but it is. It's playoff baseball. The weather definitely indicates

1201
00:55:40,798 --> 00:55:43,118
Speaker 2: that right now. It was always the best time of

1202
00:55:43,158 --> 00:55:44,878
Speaker 2: the year. It was always my favorite time of the year,

1203
00:55:44,958 --> 00:55:47,718
Speaker 2: it still is, So it's going to be fascinating. I

1204
00:55:47,758 --> 00:55:50,958
Speaker 2: think we're talking about it looks like the the Yankees

1205
00:55:52,318 --> 00:55:55,158
Speaker 2: should roll over the Guardians. But tonight is obviously a

1206
00:55:55,238 --> 00:55:58,078
Speaker 2: very important game. And every time the Guardians seem to

1207
00:55:58,118 --> 00:55:59,838
Speaker 2: be out of it this year, they weren't, you know,

1208
00:55:59,918 --> 00:56:03,678
Speaker 2: they they pulls them back in and they start doing

1209
00:56:03,718 --> 00:56:08,238
Speaker 2: some magical things. And I Stephen votes very very level

1210
00:56:08,278 --> 00:56:10,718
Speaker 2: headed about this. I watch him, I listen to him,

1211
00:56:10,798 --> 00:56:12,878
Speaker 2: I know him. He's probably the perfect guy for that

1212
00:56:12,918 --> 00:56:14,998
Speaker 2: group right now, the way he handles all this. So

1213
00:56:15,398 --> 00:56:17,758
Speaker 2: let's see what happens tonight. And on the other end

1214
00:56:17,758 --> 00:56:21,918
Speaker 2: of things, Dodgers match, it's just going to be knock down,

1215
00:56:21,998 --> 00:56:25,838
Speaker 2: drag him out the rest of the way. The Mets

1216
00:56:25,878 --> 00:56:28,518
Speaker 2: have this extreme resilience and the Dodgers, like I said,

1217
00:56:28,558 --> 00:56:30,438
Speaker 2: have this pedigree. So it's going to be fun to watch.

1218
00:56:30,838 --> 00:56:33,318
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm with you on the Guardians. I'll happily be

1219
00:56:33,438 --> 00:56:35,758
Speaker 1: surprised if they turned this into a long series. But

1220
00:56:35,878 --> 00:56:39,478
Speaker 1: that's a team that was trailing, facing elimination to Trek

1221
00:56:39,558 --> 00:56:42,358
Speaker 1: Scooble and won the game. So that tells you don't

1222
00:56:42,358 --> 00:56:44,678
Speaker 1: count them out, all right, Joe, Now, it's time for

1223
00:56:44,718 --> 00:56:47,038
Speaker 1: you to take the ball and close this thing out,

1224
00:56:47,118 --> 00:56:49,878
Speaker 1: this latest edition of the Book of Joe. What do

1225
00:56:49,918 --> 00:56:50,838
Speaker 1: you have for us today?

1226
00:56:51,198 --> 00:56:54,798
Speaker 2: Well, you know again, I actually said it several times

1227
00:56:54,838 --> 00:56:57,238
Speaker 2: early on and kind of alluded to it. But attitudes

1228
00:56:57,438 --> 00:56:59,918
Speaker 2: are more important than facts. I mean, you could get

1229
00:56:59,918 --> 00:57:02,958
Speaker 2: these juggernaut groups that are supposed to roll over people,

1230
00:57:03,958 --> 00:57:06,598
Speaker 2: and we're talking about baseball right obviously, and the facts

1231
00:57:06,638 --> 00:57:08,518
Speaker 2: and the numbers would indicate there's no chance.

1232
00:57:08,598 --> 00:57:10,198
Speaker 3: But attitude matters. Man.

1233
00:57:10,238 --> 00:57:14,158
Speaker 2: Attitude is a decision. That's something I got from Kenny Riviza.

1234
00:57:14,278 --> 00:57:16,078
Speaker 2: That was one of my favorites. I used to I

1235
00:57:16,158 --> 00:57:19,998
Speaker 2: put that on the fridge out of my printer, printed

1236
00:57:20,078 --> 00:57:22,838
Speaker 2: up very nicely on the fridge back in Masa and

1237
00:57:23,038 --> 00:57:25,678
Speaker 2: Sarah Joey were growing up, and every morning they'd walk

1238
00:57:25,718 --> 00:57:28,998
Speaker 2: into the kitchen they'd see, Attitude is a decision. You

1239
00:57:28,998 --> 00:57:30,958
Speaker 2: can control how you feel, you can control how you

1240
00:57:31,038 --> 00:57:34,878
Speaker 2: can go about your business. It's no important, no kind

1241
00:57:34,878 --> 00:57:36,878
Speaker 2: of synonymous with whatever you put out there is going to.

1242
00:57:36,878 --> 00:57:37,958
Speaker 3: Come back to you.

1243
00:57:38,078 --> 00:57:41,118
Speaker 2: Attitude is a decision, and attitudes then become more important

1244
00:57:41,118 --> 00:57:47,598
Speaker 2: than facts. So for me right now, attitudinally I really

1245
00:57:47,678 --> 00:57:49,958
Speaker 2: paytent like be alluded to this earlier. I really pay

1246
00:57:49,958 --> 00:57:52,958
Speaker 2: attention to how I think or perceive that guys are

1247
00:57:52,958 --> 00:57:56,118
Speaker 2: going about their business, and I think that matters a lot.

1248
00:57:56,238 --> 00:57:59,598
Speaker 2: So this is where Goliath David does be Goliath. This

1249
00:57:59,678 --> 00:58:01,078
Speaker 2: is where he just throws that stone.

1250
00:58:01,078 --> 00:58:02,758
Speaker 3: It's right between the eyeballs and all of a sudden,

1251
00:58:02,758 --> 00:58:05,518
Speaker 3: you never know what hits you. So I pay attention

1252
00:58:05,598 --> 00:58:05,798
Speaker 3: to that.

1253
00:58:06,198 --> 00:58:10,398
Speaker 2: So facts are facts, and even facts and opinions have

1254
00:58:10,518 --> 00:58:11,678
Speaker 2: become so blurred anymore.

1255
00:58:11,718 --> 00:58:12,238
Speaker 3: Who knows.

1256
00:58:12,638 --> 00:58:18,198
Speaker 2: But I really am interested in people and players and

1257
00:58:18,238 --> 00:58:20,958
Speaker 2: how they go about their business. And right now, this

1258
00:58:20,998 --> 00:58:22,718
Speaker 2: time of the year, we're just talking about, like see

1259
00:58:22,758 --> 00:58:25,598
Speaker 2: what the Guardians do tonight. Attitudes can be way more

1260
00:58:25,638 --> 00:58:26,558
Speaker 2: important than facts.

1261
00:58:26,838 --> 00:58:29,398
Speaker 1: I like that. It reminds me of a sign that

1262
00:58:29,518 --> 00:58:32,798
Speaker 1: Handley Ramirez had hanging in his locker when he played

1263
00:58:32,798 --> 00:58:37,478
Speaker 1: for the Dodgers, and the sign said, attitude is a choice.

1264
00:58:38,118 --> 00:58:38,958
Speaker 1: Pick a good one.

1265
00:58:39,398 --> 00:58:42,598
Speaker 3: That's it. That's on the money man, on the money.

1266
00:58:42,398 --> 00:58:44,118
Speaker 1: Good stuff. Joe, We'll see you next time on the

1267
00:58:44,118 --> 00:58:46,478
Speaker 1: Book of Joe, Happy Travels, Brothers, Sababy