1 00:00:06,960 --> 00:00:10,039 Speaker 1: Diversion audio. 2 00:00:11,840 --> 00:00:17,000 Speaker 2: A note this episode contains mature content and descriptions of 3 00:00:17,040 --> 00:00:21,320 Speaker 2: sexual violence that may be disturbing for some listeners. Please 4 00:00:21,400 --> 00:00:28,320 Speaker 2: take care and listening. It was a warm spring morning 5 00:00:28,480 --> 00:00:32,680 Speaker 2: in nineteen eighty five, Ronda da Costa read a copy 6 00:00:32,760 --> 00:00:39,239 Speaker 2: of the Pasadena Star News and she was furious. A 7 00:00:39,320 --> 00:00:43,239 Speaker 2: year earlier, Ronda used sex work to support herself and 8 00:00:43,320 --> 00:00:48,120 Speaker 2: her young child. A man named Daniel Zebuski picked her 9 00:00:48,159 --> 00:00:50,959 Speaker 2: up and she agreed to have oral sex with him 10 00:00:51,240 --> 00:00:57,440 Speaker 2: for thirty dollars. Instead, he raped, sodomized, and robbed her. 11 00:00:59,560 --> 00:01:03,120 Speaker 2: Many people people don't report it after something like that happens. 12 00:01:03,960 --> 00:01:07,160 Speaker 2: Some are too traumatized to even tell someone close to them, 13 00:01:07,920 --> 00:01:10,280 Speaker 2: let alone speak about it in front of a whole 14 00:01:10,319 --> 00:01:14,560 Speaker 2: court room full of strangers. But Ronda knew that she 15 00:01:14,720 --> 00:01:20,679 Speaker 2: deserved justice. Then the judge who was supposed to preside 16 00:01:20,760 --> 00:01:26,039 Speaker 2: over her trial decided it wasn't worth his time. He 17 00:01:26,160 --> 00:01:30,120 Speaker 2: dismissed the case, saying that the court was not responsible 18 00:01:30,200 --> 00:01:35,240 Speaker 2: for resolving quote the contractual dispute between a whore and 19 00:01:35,280 --> 00:01:40,720 Speaker 2: her trick. Then he actually apologized to the jury for 20 00:01:40,800 --> 00:01:45,200 Speaker 2: wasting their time, as if all that wasn't bad enough 21 00:01:46,319 --> 00:01:49,160 Speaker 2: He then gave an interview with a local paper that 22 00:01:49,320 --> 00:01:53,320 Speaker 2: made his views on the case even clearer. This is 23 00:01:53,360 --> 00:01:58,440 Speaker 2: a quote. The law was set up to protect good people, you, 24 00:01:59,280 --> 00:02:04,520 Speaker 2: my wife, my daughters, my granddaughters. It doesn't protect a 25 00:02:04,560 --> 00:02:09,480 Speaker 2: street walking prostitute from a contract gone awry. This case 26 00:02:09,520 --> 00:02:13,000 Speaker 2: shouldn't have been filed. A whore is a whore is 27 00:02:13,040 --> 00:02:17,480 Speaker 2: a whore. I don't know about you, but a statement 28 00:02:17,600 --> 00:02:20,480 Speaker 2: like this one is what would keep me from reporting 29 00:02:20,520 --> 00:02:25,640 Speaker 2: an assault to family. The unstated policy that a victim 30 00:02:25,720 --> 00:02:30,160 Speaker 2: has to have not deserved it to get justice, that 31 00:02:30,200 --> 00:02:33,000 Speaker 2: would give me pause about whether the case should be filed, 32 00:02:33,880 --> 00:02:37,560 Speaker 2: even though, to use the judge's own verbiage against him, 33 00:02:37,840 --> 00:02:41,920 Speaker 2: a crime is a crime is a crime, which is 34 00:02:41,960 --> 00:02:46,240 Speaker 2: part of the reason why our judicial system is broken. Anyway, 35 00:02:46,800 --> 00:02:49,720 Speaker 2: Rhonda must have known that there were people in the 36 00:02:49,760 --> 00:02:53,400 Speaker 2: American criminal justice system who didn't respect the rights of 37 00:02:53,440 --> 00:02:58,360 Speaker 2: sex workers, but seeing it in writing on written record 38 00:02:58,680 --> 00:03:09,920 Speaker 2: like that must have been shocking. Ronda needed someone to 39 00:03:09,960 --> 00:03:13,560 Speaker 2: fight for her, to prove to the world that sex 40 00:03:13,600 --> 00:03:18,160 Speaker 2: workers had the same rights as anybody else, and eventually 41 00:03:18,919 --> 00:03:23,239 Speaker 2: she did find someone to make that case. Ronda found 42 00:03:23,240 --> 00:03:46,280 Speaker 2: Gloria Allred Welcome to the greatest true crime stories ever told. 43 00:03:47,040 --> 00:03:52,440 Speaker 2: I'm Mary Kay mcbraer. Today's episode, we're calling Gloria Allred, 44 00:03:53,200 --> 00:03:58,560 Speaker 2: sexual assault survivor turned powerhouse attorney. The press loves to 45 00:03:58,600 --> 00:04:01,280 Speaker 2: paint a picture of Gloria all Read as a flinty 46 00:04:01,760 --> 00:04:05,120 Speaker 2: female lawyer standing in front of a bank of cameras 47 00:04:05,320 --> 00:04:09,520 Speaker 2: pretending to care about her client's crocodile tears. But the 48 00:04:09,560 --> 00:04:14,560 Speaker 2: real Gloria is obviously much more complicated. She's an icon 49 00:04:14,600 --> 00:04:18,520 Speaker 2: who's been involved in so many major legal cases oj 50 00:04:18,920 --> 00:04:22,880 Speaker 2: Bill Cosby, the fight for gay marriage, priest abuse cases, 51 00:04:23,240 --> 00:04:27,560 Speaker 2: and AIDS discrimination. She's seen it all. She's been practicing 52 00:04:27,640 --> 00:04:31,080 Speaker 2: law for nearly fifty years, and in that time she's 53 00:04:31,120 --> 00:04:35,840 Speaker 2: been a hero, a villain, and everything in between. More 54 00:04:36,000 --> 00:04:56,359 Speaker 2: after the break. It's common to hear about how fame 55 00:04:56,440 --> 00:05:01,080 Speaker 2: corrupts people, makes them prioritize their image more than their humanity. 56 00:05:02,279 --> 00:05:05,480 Speaker 2: We often think of it in vanity metrics, how many 57 00:05:05,480 --> 00:05:08,000 Speaker 2: followers will you lose if you post a political pig? 58 00:05:09,200 --> 00:05:13,320 Speaker 2: But there are practical concerns too. Will your sponsors pull 59 00:05:13,360 --> 00:05:16,040 Speaker 2: their ads because they don't want to be associated with 60 00:05:16,160 --> 00:05:19,599 Speaker 2: the grim reality you need to share? And if so, 61 00:05:20,920 --> 00:05:24,360 Speaker 2: what does that look like in your everyday life, not 62 00:05:24,400 --> 00:05:28,040 Speaker 2: only with monetary concerns like can you afford your mortgage now? 63 00:05:28,720 --> 00:05:31,239 Speaker 2: But can you go out to eat with your kids 64 00:05:31,240 --> 00:05:36,240 Speaker 2: without getting harassed even if you are in the right. Basically, 65 00:05:36,279 --> 00:05:40,560 Speaker 2: if your persona affects the perception of you publicly, especially 66 00:05:40,640 --> 00:05:45,279 Speaker 2: on a big scale, then what you say matters, especially 67 00:05:45,320 --> 00:05:49,120 Speaker 2: because the public can turn so quickly from lauding someone 68 00:05:49,440 --> 00:05:59,880 Speaker 2: to canceling them. Gloria eventually went on to file a 69 00:06:00,040 --> 00:06:04,440 Speaker 2: civil suit against Ronda's attacker and an official complaint against 70 00:06:04,480 --> 00:06:08,599 Speaker 2: the judge who dropped her case. Sadly, Ronda died in 71 00:06:08,640 --> 00:06:11,359 Speaker 2: a car accident before she could go to trial. But 72 00:06:11,640 --> 00:06:14,480 Speaker 2: just getting the case filed was a big step in itself. 73 00:06:15,600 --> 00:06:18,359 Speaker 2: I mean, it shouldn't have been. It shouldn't be that 74 00:06:18,480 --> 00:06:21,400 Speaker 2: hard to prosecute a rapist just because of the profession 75 00:06:21,480 --> 00:06:25,920 Speaker 2: of the person whom he assaulted, But it was. These 76 00:06:25,960 --> 00:06:28,560 Speaker 2: are the kinds of cases that Gloria took on throughout 77 00:06:28,560 --> 00:06:32,560 Speaker 2: her career. Cases that are, as Gloria puts it, not 78 00:06:32,720 --> 00:06:36,440 Speaker 2: even about justice. Justice would be that they had never 79 00:06:36,480 --> 00:06:41,360 Speaker 2: been raped or abused or fired. There are cases that 80 00:06:41,560 --> 00:06:45,080 Speaker 2: shouldn't have been groundbreaking, but they were because we have 81 00:06:45,160 --> 00:06:48,560 Speaker 2: a long way to go. Let's go back to the beginning, 82 00:06:48,680 --> 00:07:04,239 Speaker 2: or rather Gloria's beginning, before she fought for women's rights 83 00:07:04,240 --> 00:07:08,640 Speaker 2: in the courtroom. Gloria Alread was Gloria Rachel Bloom, a 84 00:07:08,720 --> 00:07:12,120 Speaker 2: kid growing up in a working class Jewish neighborhood in Philadelphia. 85 00:07:13,360 --> 00:07:15,800 Speaker 2: Her father was a door to door salesman and her 86 00:07:15,840 --> 00:07:18,640 Speaker 2: mother was a stay at home mom. Though the family 87 00:07:18,760 --> 00:07:22,720 Speaker 2: was poor, they seemed like they were genuinely happy. Gloria's 88 00:07:22,800 --> 00:07:25,520 Speaker 2: parents doated on her. Neither one of them ever made 89 00:07:25,560 --> 00:07:27,960 Speaker 2: it past the eighth grade, and they wanted their daughter 90 00:07:28,040 --> 00:07:32,520 Speaker 2: to have all the opportunities they never got. Gloria graduated 91 00:07:32,520 --> 00:07:35,160 Speaker 2: from an all girls high school with a partial scholarship 92 00:07:35,160 --> 00:07:38,840 Speaker 2: to the University of Pennsylvania. She seemed to be on 93 00:07:38,920 --> 00:07:42,240 Speaker 2: the right track for becoming a high powered, influential lawyer. 94 00:07:43,720 --> 00:07:47,920 Speaker 2: But then Gloria picked Peyton Bray. Peyton was the kind 95 00:07:47,960 --> 00:07:51,120 Speaker 2: of guy who seemed too good to be true, because 96 00:07:51,160 --> 00:07:54,920 Speaker 2: he usually is too good to be true. They met 97 00:07:54,960 --> 00:07:57,320 Speaker 2: in Gloria's first week of college and were married a 98 00:07:57,400 --> 00:08:00,000 Speaker 2: year later. She was pregnant by the age of night. 99 00:08:01,680 --> 00:08:04,880 Speaker 2: Gloria's carefully planned future was starting to veer off course. 100 00:08:11,640 --> 00:08:15,160 Speaker 2: Peyton entered the military after college, and then he dropped 101 00:08:15,160 --> 00:08:19,480 Speaker 2: out of boot camp after a bipolar episode. One evening, 102 00:08:19,560 --> 00:08:23,280 Speaker 2: while cooking, Peyton burned something on the stove, and he 103 00:08:23,400 --> 00:08:27,360 Speaker 2: threw the pan of hot food across the room. Gloria 104 00:08:27,440 --> 00:08:29,600 Speaker 2: must have told herself that this was just a one 105 00:08:29,600 --> 00:08:32,559 Speaker 2: time thing, that he wouldn't do it again, But then 106 00:08:32,559 --> 00:08:37,400 Speaker 2: he did again and again. In nineteen sixty two, the 107 00:08:37,480 --> 00:08:40,800 Speaker 2: pair divorced and Gloria moved back in with her parents. 108 00:08:41,280 --> 00:08:44,360 Speaker 2: She took a job at Gimbal Brothers department store, where 109 00:08:44,400 --> 00:08:48,080 Speaker 2: she worked long, difficult hours and made fifteen dollars less 110 00:08:48,080 --> 00:08:51,840 Speaker 2: per week than a man in the same position. Gloria's 111 00:08:51,840 --> 00:08:54,480 Speaker 2: first step towards getting out of that slump was to 112 00:08:54,480 --> 00:08:58,160 Speaker 2: go back to school. Twice a week, she commuted to 113 00:08:58,200 --> 00:09:01,240 Speaker 2: grad school in New York. She also took a job 114 00:09:01,280 --> 00:09:05,480 Speaker 2: teaching at a low income high school in Philadelphia. The 115 00:09:05,520 --> 00:09:09,160 Speaker 2: Gloria already who worked at Benjamin Franklin High was very 116 00:09:09,160 --> 00:09:11,800 Speaker 2: different from the outspoken force of nature we know today. 117 00:09:12,640 --> 00:09:16,280 Speaker 2: For one thing, she was a lot less political. In 118 00:09:16,320 --> 00:09:20,199 Speaker 2: one of her NYU classes, she remembers a professor asking 119 00:09:20,240 --> 00:09:24,560 Speaker 2: her if she ever thought about women's rights. Gloria asked, 120 00:09:25,160 --> 00:09:34,199 Speaker 2: what rights don't women have? In nineteen sixty six, Gloria 121 00:09:34,240 --> 00:09:36,320 Speaker 2: took a job at a low income school in East 122 00:09:36,480 --> 00:09:39,120 Speaker 2: la It wasn't much different than the job she had 123 00:09:39,160 --> 00:09:42,120 Speaker 2: in Philadelphia, but as she put it, I figured, if 124 00:09:42,120 --> 00:09:44,120 Speaker 2: I was going to be poor, then I'd be poor 125 00:09:44,160 --> 00:09:48,520 Speaker 2: where it was warm. Gloria was surprised and appalled by 126 00:09:48,559 --> 00:09:52,560 Speaker 2: the conditions of the schools and watts. She had students 127 00:09:52,559 --> 00:09:54,640 Speaker 2: in the eleventh grade who didn't know how to read. 128 00:09:55,440 --> 00:09:59,079 Speaker 2: But in spite of the overcrowding and underfunding, Gloria loved 129 00:09:59,120 --> 00:10:02,720 Speaker 2: being a teacher. She might have continued to teach if 130 00:10:02,760 --> 00:10:13,360 Speaker 2: not for the trip to Acapulco. Gloria was on vacation 131 00:10:13,520 --> 00:10:16,720 Speaker 2: with a friend when a doctor asked her out. The 132 00:10:16,800 --> 00:10:19,600 Speaker 2: man told Gloria that before they could go to dinner, 133 00:10:20,160 --> 00:10:22,360 Speaker 2: he needed to check on a patient in the hospital. 134 00:10:23,559 --> 00:10:27,000 Speaker 2: She waited for him at his clinic. Afterward, he said 135 00:10:27,040 --> 00:10:31,080 Speaker 2: he had one more stop at another patient's hotel who 136 00:10:31,120 --> 00:10:34,240 Speaker 2: had already checked out of the hospital, to make sure 137 00:10:34,400 --> 00:10:40,120 Speaker 2: they were recuperating all right. Again, Gloria followed along. When 138 00:10:40,160 --> 00:10:42,480 Speaker 2: they got to the hotel, there was no one in 139 00:10:42,520 --> 00:10:45,680 Speaker 2: the room. She turned around to ask the doctor what 140 00:10:45,800 --> 00:10:48,240 Speaker 2: was going on and saw that he had a gun 141 00:10:48,240 --> 00:10:53,599 Speaker 2: pointed at her. The man raped her. Gloria felt powerless. 142 00:10:53,840 --> 00:10:56,320 Speaker 2: She couldn't go to the police. Why would they believe 143 00:10:56,360 --> 00:11:00,000 Speaker 2: her over the word of a respected doctor. More importantly, 144 00:11:00,520 --> 00:11:04,480 Speaker 2: she didn't want to tell anyone. Something horrible happened, and 145 00:11:04,559 --> 00:11:06,560 Speaker 2: all she wanted to do was put it behind her. 146 00:11:07,679 --> 00:11:11,480 Speaker 2: In the documentary, seeing All Read, the interviewer asked Gloria 147 00:11:11,520 --> 00:11:13,680 Speaker 2: if the rape was the worst thing that ever happened 148 00:11:13,720 --> 00:11:18,360 Speaker 2: to her. Gloria smiles slightly and shakes her head. The 149 00:11:18,440 --> 00:11:22,000 Speaker 2: worst moment of her life came after when Gloria got 150 00:11:22,040 --> 00:11:25,800 Speaker 2: back to the United States, she discovered that she was pregnant. 151 00:11:26,200 --> 00:11:30,000 Speaker 2: This was seven years before Roe versus Wade, and in California, 152 00:11:30,280 --> 00:11:34,839 Speaker 2: abortion was still illegal, so Gloria got an abortion from 153 00:11:34,880 --> 00:11:40,280 Speaker 2: an unlicensed provider. When she started hemorrhaging after the procedure, 154 00:11:41,160 --> 00:11:45,439 Speaker 2: she called the man who performed the operation. He told her, 155 00:11:46,200 --> 00:11:49,000 Speaker 2: we did what you paid for. Were not responsible for 156 00:11:49,040 --> 00:11:54,560 Speaker 2: what happens afterwards. Back then, as opposed to now, women 157 00:11:54,600 --> 00:11:58,240 Speaker 2: weren't being penalized for getting abortions, only the people who 158 00:11:58,280 --> 00:12:02,840 Speaker 2: provided them were penalized, but Gloria didn't know that, so 159 00:12:02,880 --> 00:12:06,600 Speaker 2: she was afraid to seek care. It wasn't until she 160 00:12:06,679 --> 00:12:09,840 Speaker 2: had a one hundred and six degree fever and was 161 00:12:09,840 --> 00:12:12,560 Speaker 2: on the verge of bleeding to death that Gloria went 162 00:12:12,600 --> 00:12:16,600 Speaker 2: to a special ward for women who had botched abortions. 163 00:12:17,280 --> 00:12:20,120 Speaker 2: The doctors covered her in ice to bring down her fever. 164 00:12:21,320 --> 00:12:23,920 Speaker 2: A nurse looked down at her and said, this will 165 00:12:23,920 --> 00:12:28,240 Speaker 2: teach you a lesson. Gloria couldn't stop rape from happening, 166 00:12:28,679 --> 00:12:31,680 Speaker 2: but she could and would work all her life to 167 00:12:31,800 --> 00:12:35,960 Speaker 2: change the systems that punished its victims. More about that. 168 00:12:36,400 --> 00:12:53,520 Speaker 2: After the break, Gloria was still a single mom who 169 00:12:53,559 --> 00:12:56,720 Speaker 2: needed to make a living. She taught high school and 170 00:12:56,800 --> 00:13:00,439 Speaker 2: Watts for two more years. Then in nineteen six twenty eight, 171 00:13:00,800 --> 00:13:03,800 Speaker 2: she took a job as the first full time female 172 00:13:03,800 --> 00:13:09,480 Speaker 2: staffer for the Los Angeles Teachers Organization. Chicano parents and 173 00:13:09,520 --> 00:13:12,080 Speaker 2: students were fed up with the quality of education in 174 00:13:12,120 --> 00:13:17,920 Speaker 2: their schools. Mexican American students were experiencing a sixty percent 175 00:13:18,000 --> 00:13:21,640 Speaker 2: dropout rate, largely due to the racism they experienced from 176 00:13:21,679 --> 00:13:27,320 Speaker 2: school administrators. Some teachers banned students from speaking Spanish and 177 00:13:27,440 --> 00:13:32,440 Speaker 2: purposefully funneled Chicano students into vocational programs rather than encouraging 178 00:13:32,480 --> 00:13:37,440 Speaker 2: them to pursue further education. In March of nineteen sixty eight, 179 00:13:38,080 --> 00:13:41,800 Speaker 2: more than fifteen thousand students walked out of East LA 180 00:13:41,880 --> 00:13:48,400 Speaker 2: schools and protests. Gloria organized a teaching but perhaps most importantly, 181 00:13:49,040 --> 00:13:53,000 Speaker 2: she saw firsthand the profound impact that a well organized 182 00:13:53,040 --> 00:13:58,880 Speaker 2: protest can have. Eventually, Gloria made community protests a key 183 00:13:58,960 --> 00:14:03,400 Speaker 2: tool in her future playbook for winning cases. Gloria had 184 00:14:03,440 --> 00:14:07,400 Speaker 2: long been interested in becoming a lawyer. Back in Pennsylvania. 185 00:14:07,520 --> 00:14:10,320 Speaker 2: She even looked into law school, but the cost was 186 00:14:10,360 --> 00:14:15,160 Speaker 2: just too much. Now, her experiences as an educator and 187 00:14:15,320 --> 00:14:19,680 Speaker 2: organizer brought law school back up again, and in nineteen 188 00:14:19,720 --> 00:14:23,200 Speaker 2: sixty eight, she met someone who would solve her money problems. 189 00:14:23,200 --> 00:14:37,360 Speaker 2: For good William Alred was handsome and charming. Most importantly, 190 00:14:37,440 --> 00:14:40,160 Speaker 2: he saw Gloria for the strong, dynamic woman she was, 191 00:14:40,640 --> 00:14:44,440 Speaker 2: even when she couldn't see herself that way. They married 192 00:14:44,440 --> 00:14:47,840 Speaker 2: in nineteen sixty eight, and Bill encouraged her dream of 193 00:14:47,880 --> 00:14:52,200 Speaker 2: going to law school by paying for her education. He was, 194 00:14:52,680 --> 00:14:56,280 Speaker 2: by the way, a multi millionaire who owned an aircraft 195 00:14:56,320 --> 00:15:01,760 Speaker 2: parts manufacturing company. Gloria gradu duated from Loyola Law School 196 00:15:02,120 --> 00:15:06,520 Speaker 2: in nineteen seventy five. With two other lawyers and the 197 00:15:06,560 --> 00:15:10,960 Speaker 2: support of her adoring husband, she started her own law firm. 198 00:15:11,360 --> 00:15:13,480 Speaker 2: It was clear from the beginning that as a lawyer, 199 00:15:13,680 --> 00:15:17,680 Speaker 2: Gloria had two qualities that stood out. Her flare for 200 00:15:17,720 --> 00:15:22,160 Speaker 2: the dramatic in her sense of what was right. Gloria 201 00:15:22,200 --> 00:15:25,720 Speaker 2: and her partners started out with criminal defense work, but 202 00:15:25,840 --> 00:15:29,440 Speaker 2: they quickly switched over to civil cases involving racial and 203 00:15:29,480 --> 00:15:34,800 Speaker 2: sexual discrimination. In the late seventies, Gloria started volunteering with 204 00:15:34,840 --> 00:15:38,520 Speaker 2: the National Organization for Women, and it was through them 205 00:15:38,720 --> 00:15:42,960 Speaker 2: that she held her first press conference. Governor Jerry Brown 206 00:15:43,200 --> 00:15:46,480 Speaker 2: made a campaign promise to appoint more women judges, but 207 00:15:46,560 --> 00:15:50,200 Speaker 2: he failed to follow through. Gloria read a prepared statement 208 00:15:50,240 --> 00:15:54,520 Speaker 2: for the cameras. A few weeks after the conference, Governor 209 00:15:54,560 --> 00:15:59,600 Speaker 2: Brown did appoint more female judges, and then when Gloria 210 00:15:59,600 --> 00:16:05,120 Speaker 2: hosted another conference several months later, he appointed more. The 211 00:16:05,200 --> 00:16:10,040 Speaker 2: lesson Gloria took from this was clear press conferences worked 212 00:16:19,880 --> 00:16:23,360 Speaker 2: for Gloria. These were good times. Her money problems were 213 00:16:23,360 --> 00:16:26,000 Speaker 2: a thing of the past. She had a happy marriage 214 00:16:26,200 --> 00:16:29,760 Speaker 2: with a supportive husband who believed in her, and she 215 00:16:29,840 --> 00:16:33,880 Speaker 2: was making a difference. Over the next decade, she had 216 00:16:33,920 --> 00:16:38,720 Speaker 2: impressive wins. She sued a drug store for separating toys 217 00:16:38,720 --> 00:16:42,160 Speaker 2: by gender. Then she sued a restaurant that had a 218 00:16:42,200 --> 00:16:46,800 Speaker 2: special unpriced menu for women eating with men, because obviously 219 00:16:46,880 --> 00:16:50,880 Speaker 2: the man would be paying. Next, she sued the sheriff 220 00:16:50,960 --> 00:16:54,200 Speaker 2: of Los Angeles County on behalf of women forced to 221 00:16:54,200 --> 00:16:57,960 Speaker 2: give birth in chains. Sorry listeners, As a first time 222 00:16:58,040 --> 00:17:00,560 Speaker 2: new mother, I need to die a tribe here real quick. 223 00:17:01,680 --> 00:17:06,399 Speaker 2: Imagine a mother who is actively in labor, shackled to 224 00:17:06,520 --> 00:17:10,960 Speaker 2: a bed so she doesn't run away. First of all, 225 00:17:11,080 --> 00:17:15,680 Speaker 2: anyone who's been pregnant knows that you can't run period. Dude. 226 00:17:15,680 --> 00:17:18,640 Speaker 2: Pregnancy is miserable, and if someone says it's not, they're 227 00:17:18,680 --> 00:17:21,960 Speaker 2: either straight up lying or their brain chemistry has tricked 228 00:17:22,000 --> 00:17:24,800 Speaker 2: them into forgetting that their pelvis was a jigsaw puzzle 229 00:17:25,040 --> 00:17:28,840 Speaker 2: and their lungs were compressed for weeks. Just to illustrate 230 00:17:28,920 --> 00:17:31,240 Speaker 2: for those who are not convinced that giving birth and 231 00:17:31,359 --> 00:17:36,000 Speaker 2: chains is preposterous, look, if you're in labor, well, first 232 00:17:36,000 --> 00:17:39,000 Speaker 2: of all, if you get any drugs, then you physically 233 00:17:39,359 --> 00:17:44,240 Speaker 2: cannot walk if you don't have any drugs. The moment 234 00:17:44,280 --> 00:17:47,120 Speaker 2: you try to stand, even if it's just to stagger 235 00:17:47,160 --> 00:17:51,800 Speaker 2: to the bathroom, you get a debilitating contraction. So the 236 00:17:51,840 --> 00:17:56,240 Speaker 2: idea of running away during labor is absurd. And if 237 00:17:56,240 --> 00:17:58,880 Speaker 2: you're thinking, but what about after the baby is born. 238 00:17:59,560 --> 00:18:03,040 Speaker 2: As a person who felt better immediately after giving birth, 239 00:18:03,080 --> 00:18:06,639 Speaker 2: I can still assure you no, your uterus is contracting 240 00:18:06,680 --> 00:18:09,320 Speaker 2: in a period cramp like never before because it was 241 00:18:09,560 --> 00:18:12,920 Speaker 2: just holding a violent little angel, and now it has 242 00:18:12,960 --> 00:18:16,560 Speaker 2: to contract back to the size of one ounce starting 243 00:18:16,760 --> 00:18:20,040 Speaker 2: right now, or you'll hemorrhage and potentially bleed to death. 244 00:18:20,840 --> 00:18:23,760 Speaker 2: So you're not running away then either. And I'm not 245 00:18:23,800 --> 00:18:26,640 Speaker 2: even addressing the instance that you could need surgical stitches 246 00:18:26,680 --> 00:18:30,199 Speaker 2: to prepare the damage to your vagina and rectum. You 247 00:18:30,320 --> 00:18:33,119 Speaker 2: might hover for a moment to transition from a bed 248 00:18:33,160 --> 00:18:36,159 Speaker 2: to a wheelchair, but you can't push it yourself, and 249 00:18:36,240 --> 00:18:38,840 Speaker 2: you definitely can't push the wheelchair you're in while holding 250 00:18:38,880 --> 00:18:41,840 Speaker 2: the newborn. And have you ever tried to run in 251 00:18:41,920 --> 00:18:42,880 Speaker 2: an adult diaper? 252 00:18:43,160 --> 00:18:43,200 Speaker 1: No? 253 00:18:43,600 --> 00:18:48,200 Speaker 2: Fuck you. So, in conclusion, chaining a woman to the 254 00:18:48,280 --> 00:18:52,000 Speaker 2: childbirth bed is solely for fucked up optics. But thanks 255 00:18:52,040 --> 00:18:55,159 Speaker 2: to Gloria's nineteen eighty lawsuit, it won't happen anymore, at 256 00:18:55,240 --> 00:18:59,240 Speaker 2: least not in Los Angeles. All through the eighties, the 257 00:18:59,320 --> 00:19:03,879 Speaker 2: hits kept. Gloria testified at a hearing where a conservative 258 00:19:03,920 --> 00:19:08,480 Speaker 2: senator proposed banning abortion and putting limits on birth control. 259 00:19:08,640 --> 00:19:11,480 Speaker 2: She ended her testimony by presenting him with a black 260 00:19:11,600 --> 00:19:16,080 Speaker 2: leather chastity belt. She represented a lesbian couple who were 261 00:19:16,080 --> 00:19:18,399 Speaker 2: sent away from a restaurant for sitting in a booth 262 00:19:18,480 --> 00:19:22,199 Speaker 2: reserved for romantic couples, and a man kicked out of 263 00:19:22,200 --> 00:19:25,760 Speaker 2: a nail salon after the receptionist learned he had aids. 264 00:19:26,480 --> 00:19:29,320 Speaker 2: One favorite is when she forced the Friars Club, a 265 00:19:29,400 --> 00:19:34,400 Speaker 2: social club for showbiz professionals, to accept female members. Part 266 00:19:34,400 --> 00:19:38,320 Speaker 2: of her strategy included bursting into their steam room reporters 267 00:19:38,320 --> 00:19:42,720 Speaker 2: in tow wearing an eighteen ninety swimsuit, holding a tape measure, 268 00:19:43,080 --> 00:19:46,120 Speaker 2: and singing the Peggy Lee hit Is That All There Is? 269 00:19:47,680 --> 00:19:51,920 Speaker 2: I Love the drama. But not all of her cases 270 00:19:51,920 --> 00:19:56,360 Speaker 2: were quite so fun. One of Gloria's most groundbreaking cases 271 00:19:56,359 --> 00:19:59,440 Speaker 2: from the nineteen eighties was on behalf of a then 272 00:19:59,560 --> 00:20:12,920 Speaker 2: twenty two two year old Latina woman named Rita Mia. 273 00:20:15,160 --> 00:20:19,600 Speaker 2: Growing up, Rita loved going to church. She sang in 274 00:20:19,600 --> 00:20:23,520 Speaker 2: the choir, helped teach Sunday school, and had dreams of 275 00:20:23,560 --> 00:20:28,399 Speaker 2: someday becoming a nun. Rita was sixteen when the abuse began. 276 00:20:29,800 --> 00:20:33,600 Speaker 2: Father Tamayo reached through a broken confessional panel to fondle 277 00:20:33,640 --> 00:20:37,200 Speaker 2: her breast. He told her that he needed her to 278 00:20:37,560 --> 00:20:42,520 Speaker 2: help him, and she obeyed. She continued to obey for 279 00:20:42,560 --> 00:20:47,160 Speaker 2: two years, then when she turned eighteen, he took her 280 00:20:47,160 --> 00:20:51,080 Speaker 2: to an abandoned house to have sex. On another night, 281 00:20:51,200 --> 00:20:55,040 Speaker 2: he took her to an hourly motel. He started bringing 282 00:20:55,040 --> 00:21:00,880 Speaker 2: in other priests as well, seven in all. Eventually, Rita 283 00:21:00,920 --> 00:21:05,200 Speaker 2: became pregnant. When she told Tomayo, he suggested she get 284 00:21:05,200 --> 00:21:10,680 Speaker 2: an abortion, but she would not, so instead, Tomayo sent 285 00:21:10,720 --> 00:21:14,600 Speaker 2: her to stay with his brother in the Philippines. The 286 00:21:14,680 --> 00:21:17,560 Speaker 2: plan was that she would have the baby there and 287 00:21:17,600 --> 00:21:22,240 Speaker 2: then give it up for adoption. Rita agreed because Tomayo 288 00:21:22,359 --> 00:21:24,680 Speaker 2: told her that this was what she needed to do 289 00:21:24,840 --> 00:21:29,080 Speaker 2: to protect the church. But once she reached the Philippines, 290 00:21:29,680 --> 00:21:34,080 Speaker 2: Rita felt as if the church abandoned her. During the 291 00:21:34,200 --> 00:21:37,800 Speaker 2: seven months she was there, she lived on less than 292 00:21:37,840 --> 00:21:42,919 Speaker 2: four hundred and fifty dollars. She became malnourished and sick. 293 00:21:43,680 --> 00:21:47,040 Speaker 2: During the pregnancy, she suffered from acclampsia, which is a 294 00:21:47,040 --> 00:21:49,960 Speaker 2: severe condition that caused her to have seizures and pass out. 295 00:21:50,040 --> 00:21:54,000 Speaker 2: I mean, you know you've seen downton abbe. At one point, 296 00:21:54,119 --> 00:21:57,800 Speaker 2: a priest was called to perform her last writes. While 297 00:21:57,840 --> 00:22:01,560 Speaker 2: she recovered in the hospital, Rita decided not to give 298 00:22:01,600 --> 00:22:05,480 Speaker 2: the baby up for adoption. When she returned to California, 299 00:22:05,880 --> 00:22:09,720 Speaker 2: she contacted Bishop John Ward of the Los Angeles Archdiocese 300 00:22:10,440 --> 00:22:14,000 Speaker 2: and told him everything that happened to her. He told 301 00:22:14,000 --> 00:22:17,960 Speaker 2: her not to worry, that he would investigate. All she 302 00:22:18,080 --> 00:22:24,479 Speaker 2: needed to do was wait and don't say anything to anyone. 303 00:22:24,560 --> 00:22:28,359 Speaker 2: Four months passed before he finally claimed there was nothing 304 00:22:28,400 --> 00:22:43,560 Speaker 2: he could do. Then Rita found Gloria. In nineteen eighty four, 305 00:22:44,160 --> 00:22:49,000 Speaker 2: Gloria filed a lawsuit against the Catholic Archdiocese in Los Angeles, 306 00:22:49,440 --> 00:22:53,920 Speaker 2: and Gloria called a press conference. The interview was a success, 307 00:22:54,520 --> 00:22:57,640 Speaker 2: but what Rita and Gloria didn't know was that as 308 00:22:57,720 --> 00:23:03,520 Speaker 2: camera bulbs flashed and reporters yelled questions, seven priests slipped 309 00:23:03,520 --> 00:23:06,439 Speaker 2: out of the city. Each of the men named in 310 00:23:06,480 --> 00:23:18,320 Speaker 2: the lawsuit disappeared without a trace. Rita's lawsuit reached a 311 00:23:18,359 --> 00:23:23,520 Speaker 2: point of stagnation. All seven of the priests she named disappeared, 312 00:23:24,160 --> 00:23:29,560 Speaker 2: and the Los Angeles Archdiocese refused to provide addresses for them, 313 00:23:30,119 --> 00:23:34,760 Speaker 2: and the church went on attack against Rita. Later that year, 314 00:23:34,920 --> 00:23:38,960 Speaker 2: a prominent bishop gave a television interview where he claimed 315 00:23:38,960 --> 00:23:42,000 Speaker 2: that Rita had a bad reputation for fraternizing with the 316 00:23:42,040 --> 00:23:46,439 Speaker 2: altar boys. Rita had never kissed a boy before she 317 00:23:46,600 --> 00:23:51,159 Speaker 2: was abused by father Tamayo, but that didn't matter. In 318 00:23:51,240 --> 00:23:54,600 Speaker 2: nineteen eighty seven, the court ruled that the church was 319 00:23:54,640 --> 00:23:59,880 Speaker 2: not responsible for the abuse. Rita waited too long before filing, 320 00:24:00,760 --> 00:24:04,760 Speaker 2: and the statute of limitations ran out. Part of the 321 00:24:04,880 --> 00:24:08,520 Speaker 2: reason was that church officials had told Rita to wait 322 00:24:08,560 --> 00:24:12,960 Speaker 2: while they investigated, but it didn't matter. Rita's case would 323 00:24:13,040 --> 00:24:16,040 Speaker 2: never go to trial. Things were at a low point 324 00:24:16,080 --> 00:24:18,880 Speaker 2: for the case and for Gloria's personal life as well. 325 00:24:26,240 --> 00:24:31,160 Speaker 2: In nineteen eighty five, the US government began investigating Gloria's husband, Bill, 326 00:24:31,640 --> 00:24:36,439 Speaker 2: for selling counterfeit airplane parts. The criticism she received up 327 00:24:36,520 --> 00:24:39,680 Speaker 2: until this was from people angry that she challenged the 328 00:24:39,720 --> 00:24:45,439 Speaker 2: status quo that she could handle now because of something 329 00:24:45,440 --> 00:24:50,159 Speaker 2: her husband did. She wasn't the wrong for Gloria, his 330 00:24:50,280 --> 00:24:55,639 Speaker 2: ethical lapse was a complete betrayal. Soon after the investigation began, 331 00:24:55,960 --> 00:25:00,840 Speaker 2: the couple separated. Initially, it was mostly to protect Gloria's 332 00:25:00,840 --> 00:25:04,760 Speaker 2: public image as well as the couple's assets, but after 333 00:25:04,840 --> 00:25:08,840 Speaker 2: Bill was convicted of conspiracy to defraud the US government, 334 00:25:09,680 --> 00:25:19,520 Speaker 2: the separation became a very real divorce. After the end 335 00:25:19,560 --> 00:25:23,440 Speaker 2: of her marriage, Gloria threw herself into her work. Though 336 00:25:23,440 --> 00:25:26,760 Speaker 2: the case against the Los Angeles Archdiocese was thrown out, 337 00:25:27,520 --> 00:25:30,959 Speaker 2: there was still something she could get for Rita, the 338 00:25:31,000 --> 00:25:36,120 Speaker 2: identity of her child's father. In nineteen ninety one, Father 339 00:25:36,240 --> 00:25:41,960 Speaker 2: Tamayo returned to Los Angeles and contacted Gloria directly. His 340 00:25:42,119 --> 00:25:45,240 Speaker 2: conscience finally got the better of him and he was 341 00:25:45,280 --> 00:25:58,960 Speaker 2: ready to come clean. The press conference was held in 342 00:25:59,000 --> 00:26:03,199 Speaker 2: Gloria's office. Father Tomayo took a seat in front of 343 00:26:03,200 --> 00:26:06,439 Speaker 2: the colorful tapestry and shifted under the heat of the 344 00:26:06,440 --> 00:26:11,000 Speaker 2: bright lights as he spoke. He said his superiors ordered 345 00:26:11,000 --> 00:26:14,680 Speaker 2: his silence. They told him and the other priests to 346 00:26:14,760 --> 00:26:19,399 Speaker 2: leave the country. In fact, the church paid to Mayo 347 00:26:19,680 --> 00:26:24,760 Speaker 2: to flee to the Philippines. In nineteen eighty seven, Tomayo 348 00:26:24,960 --> 00:26:28,800 Speaker 2: wanted to return to Los Angeles, but once again the 349 00:26:28,920 --> 00:26:32,880 Speaker 2: Church told him to stay away. Finally, Father to Mayo 350 00:26:33,000 --> 00:26:36,439 Speaker 2: suffered a series of strokes. Perhaps seeing that the end 351 00:26:36,520 --> 00:26:39,600 Speaker 2: of his life could be near, Tomayo seized the urge 352 00:26:39,640 --> 00:26:44,800 Speaker 2: to repent. He returned to Los Angeles against the church's orders, 353 00:26:45,200 --> 00:26:49,439 Speaker 2: and he brought with him extensive documentation of everything the 354 00:26:49,520 --> 00:26:53,520 Speaker 2: church did to cover up Rita's abuse. It would be 355 00:26:53,520 --> 00:26:57,320 Speaker 2: eleven more years before Rito would finally see something close 356 00:26:57,359 --> 00:27:02,440 Speaker 2: to justice. In two thousand and two, a California legislature 357 00:27:02,640 --> 00:27:05,880 Speaker 2: extended the statute of limitations for victims of abuse by 358 00:27:05,880 --> 00:27:09,919 Speaker 2: clergy members. Rita went on to win a five hundred 359 00:27:09,960 --> 00:27:13,920 Speaker 2: thousand dollars settlement from the court, and perhaps more importantly, 360 00:27:14,440 --> 00:27:18,600 Speaker 2: she learned the identity of her child's father. After over 361 00:27:18,640 --> 00:27:23,159 Speaker 2: a decade, Gloria successfully tracked down the two priests slash 362 00:27:23,240 --> 00:27:26,119 Speaker 2: rapists who were most likely to be the father of 363 00:27:26,200 --> 00:27:29,560 Speaker 2: Rita's child. They served one of the men with a 364 00:27:29,560 --> 00:27:33,880 Speaker 2: paternity suit and conclusively established that he was her child's 365 00:27:33,960 --> 00:27:39,880 Speaker 2: biological father. By then, Rita's daughter Jackie was twenty years 366 00:27:39,880 --> 00:27:43,320 Speaker 2: old in starting her own family. The results of the 367 00:27:43,359 --> 00:27:46,680 Speaker 2: test might not change much for them, but it did 368 00:27:46,720 --> 00:27:58,760 Speaker 2: provide a sense of closure. By two thousand and two, 369 00:27:59,520 --> 00:28:04,560 Speaker 2: Gloria started taking on some very high profile cases. She 370 00:28:04,640 --> 00:28:09,440 Speaker 2: represented Nicole Brown's parents in their civil case against O. J. Simpson, 371 00:28:10,440 --> 00:28:14,200 Speaker 2: and she filed multiple complaints about Michael Jackson with Child 372 00:28:14,280 --> 00:28:19,919 Speaker 2: Protective Services. She represented Dote Fayette's fiance who sued Fayed 373 00:28:20,320 --> 00:28:23,600 Speaker 2: for breach of marital contract after his affair with Princess 374 00:28:23,640 --> 00:28:29,840 Speaker 2: Diana became public. Gloria also defended Rachel Uchito, one of 375 00:28:29,880 --> 00:28:33,240 Speaker 2: Tiger Wood's mistresses, who was being sued by Woods for 376 00:28:33,280 --> 00:28:38,080 Speaker 2: breaking her NDA, and she advised a former porn star 377 00:28:38,600 --> 00:28:42,680 Speaker 2: during a House of Representative's Ethics Committee investigation for her 378 00:28:42,720 --> 00:28:47,959 Speaker 2: part in the sexting scandal involving then Congressman Anthony Weiner. 379 00:28:49,240 --> 00:28:52,920 Speaker 2: These women fell under the same umbrella of judgment as 380 00:28:53,040 --> 00:28:56,000 Speaker 2: Ronda da Costa the story at the top of this episode, 381 00:28:57,040 --> 00:29:01,600 Speaker 2: Though the circumstances were, of course very different, mistresses and 382 00:29:01,680 --> 00:29:08,440 Speaker 2: porn stars did not constitute what the press considered deserving protagonists. Listeners, 383 00:29:09,000 --> 00:29:13,320 Speaker 2: you and I know better, and so did Gloria the 384 00:29:13,400 --> 00:29:16,280 Speaker 2: press observed that she just wanted to chime in on 385 00:29:16,400 --> 00:29:22,200 Speaker 2: any subject that attracted attention. Everyone deserves justice, but people 386 00:29:22,240 --> 00:29:28,680 Speaker 2: contain multitudes. Gloria represented people who deserve justice and attracted attention. 387 00:29:30,320 --> 00:29:33,440 Speaker 2: At one point, she even starred in a courtroom reality 388 00:29:33,520 --> 00:29:38,600 Speaker 2: TV show called We the People. With Gloria already, the 389 00:29:38,600 --> 00:29:42,640 Speaker 2: public was catching on to her tactics. Gloria became known 390 00:29:42,720 --> 00:29:45,880 Speaker 2: as the Queen of the press conference, a woman with 391 00:29:45,920 --> 00:29:49,440 Speaker 2: a talent for manipulating the press and positioning herself as 392 00:29:49,480 --> 00:29:53,680 Speaker 2: a heroic defender of the oppressed. I don't really mind 393 00:29:53,720 --> 00:29:56,320 Speaker 2: that myself, I mean, why not do both? But the 394 00:29:56,360 --> 00:30:00,360 Speaker 2: public was turning on her, and it showed was the 395 00:30:00,360 --> 00:30:01,560 Speaker 2: butt of every joke. 396 00:30:02,800 --> 00:30:06,640 Speaker 1: Look, and there's nothing there's no greater definition of stupid 397 00:30:06,720 --> 00:30:12,560 Speaker 1: or liar than Gloria allread well. Notwithstanding that, Gloria already 398 00:30:12,600 --> 00:30:16,000 Speaker 1: got her hooks into Amber and we've seen that show 399 00:30:16,080 --> 00:30:21,480 Speaker 1: many times now and Saturday Night Live, Karen from Boston asks, 400 00:30:22,000 --> 00:30:25,600 Speaker 1: I saw your latest freak show press conference with Ms Diaz, 401 00:30:25,600 --> 00:30:28,520 Speaker 1: and I have to ask, is there anything you. 402 00:30:28,440 --> 00:30:30,800 Speaker 3: Won't do to push your butt ugly mug in front 403 00:30:30,800 --> 00:30:36,480 Speaker 3: of a camera. Another good question, Karen, I have to 404 00:30:36,560 --> 00:30:39,680 Speaker 3: think about that, but I guess my answer would. 405 00:30:39,480 --> 00:30:44,200 Speaker 2: Be no, even the Simpson's gotta dig, shut up both. 406 00:30:44,040 --> 00:30:45,200 Speaker 1: Of you or else Sue. 407 00:30:45,720 --> 00:30:48,280 Speaker 2: I'll save it for your next book, you little snitch. 408 00:30:48,480 --> 00:30:50,480 Speaker 1: That's a salt. That is a salt. 409 00:30:52,640 --> 00:30:55,440 Speaker 2: Maybe defending a woman who got fired after having a 410 00:30:55,480 --> 00:30:58,760 Speaker 2: boob job isn't the most important case in the world, 411 00:31:00,120 --> 00:31:05,720 Speaker 2: doesn't make it unimportant, and representing her certainly doesn't negate 412 00:31:05,920 --> 00:31:10,040 Speaker 2: all the very important good work she did, like defending 413 00:31:10,160 --> 00:31:13,400 Speaker 2: six migrant farm workers who were denied employment because of 414 00:31:13,400 --> 00:31:17,920 Speaker 2: their gender, or representing the first same sex couple to 415 00:31:17,960 --> 00:31:22,800 Speaker 2: be married in California. Gloria might chase exciting cases, but 416 00:31:22,880 --> 00:31:26,760 Speaker 2: she takes plenty of modest ones too. Whose fault is 417 00:31:26,760 --> 00:31:30,040 Speaker 2: it really if we're more interested in hearing about famous 418 00:31:30,040 --> 00:31:36,240 Speaker 2: mistresses than exploited farm workers. Up until twenty seventeen, that 419 00:31:36,400 --> 00:31:39,840 Speaker 2: was pretty much the story behind Gloria alread a good 420 00:31:39,840 --> 00:31:44,160 Speaker 2: woman who got a bad rap. But twenty seventeen is 421 00:31:44,200 --> 00:31:57,920 Speaker 2: the twist That summer two reporters investigating the crimes of 422 00:31:57,960 --> 00:32:01,560 Speaker 2: Harvey Weinstein came up cross a damning letter from the 423 00:32:01,600 --> 00:32:06,560 Speaker 2: lawyer defending him. That lawyer was Lisa Bloom, Gloria's daughter. 424 00:32:07,720 --> 00:32:10,720 Speaker 2: Like her mother, Lisa grew up to become an advocate 425 00:32:10,760 --> 00:32:14,760 Speaker 2: for women's rights and known for taking on powerful predators. 426 00:32:15,280 --> 00:32:18,479 Speaker 2: She played a key role in cases against Donald Trump 427 00:32:18,560 --> 00:32:23,880 Speaker 2: and Bill O'Reilly. But now she agreed to defend Harvey Weinstein, 428 00:32:25,200 --> 00:32:31,080 Speaker 2: as in famed sexual predator Harvey Weinstein. Perhaps part of 429 00:32:31,120 --> 00:32:34,719 Speaker 2: Lisa's motivation was the fact that Weinstein was going to 430 00:32:34,720 --> 00:32:38,080 Speaker 2: be making her book into a film, or that he 431 00:32:38,160 --> 00:32:41,680 Speaker 2: was paying her a fifty thousand dollars retainer and an 432 00:32:41,760 --> 00:32:46,200 Speaker 2: eight hundred and ninety five dollars hourly fee. But back 433 00:32:46,200 --> 00:32:49,920 Speaker 2: to that letter. It was a query letter explaining what 434 00:32:49,960 --> 00:32:52,959 Speaker 2: Lisa would do for Harvey once he hired her, and 435 00:32:53,000 --> 00:32:56,800 Speaker 2: it was bad. She writes about Rose McGowan, who was 436 00:32:56,840 --> 00:33:00,760 Speaker 2: accusing him of rape. Quote, I feel equipped to help 437 00:33:00,800 --> 00:33:03,560 Speaker 2: you against the Roses of the world because I have 438 00:33:03,640 --> 00:33:07,600 Speaker 2: represented so many of them. They start out as impressive, 439 00:33:07,760 --> 00:33:11,520 Speaker 2: bold women, but the more one presses for evidence, the 440 00:33:11,600 --> 00:33:15,440 Speaker 2: weaknesses and lies are revealed. She doesn't seem to have 441 00:33:15,560 --> 00:33:19,800 Speaker 2: much going on these days except her rapidly escalating identity 442 00:33:19,880 --> 00:33:23,840 Speaker 2: as a feminist warrior. After that, there's a list of 443 00:33:23,880 --> 00:33:28,880 Speaker 2: tactics she'd use on Weinstein's behalf, things like quote come 444 00:33:28,920 --> 00:33:31,800 Speaker 2: out publicly in a preemptive interview where you talk about 445 00:33:31,840 --> 00:33:35,040 Speaker 2: evolving on women's issues, prompted by the death of your 446 00:33:35,080 --> 00:33:40,040 Speaker 2: mother and maybe nasty, unfounded, hurtful rumors about you, and 447 00:33:40,520 --> 00:33:45,600 Speaker 2: quote place an article regarding her becoming increasingly unglued, so 448 00:33:45,640 --> 00:33:48,440 Speaker 2: that when someone googles her, this is what pops up. 449 00:33:49,800 --> 00:33:52,600 Speaker 2: She was using the tactics she learned defending women to 450 00:33:52,680 --> 00:33:57,120 Speaker 2: discredit them, and as the two journalists investigated further, they 451 00:33:57,160 --> 00:34:01,320 Speaker 2: discovered that Gloria herself had also played in covering up 452 00:34:01,360 --> 00:34:16,000 Speaker 2: Weinstein's crimes. In two thousand and four, a young dancer 453 00:34:16,080 --> 00:34:20,439 Speaker 2: named Ashley Maddow contacted Gloria's firm about an incident where 454 00:34:20,440 --> 00:34:25,240 Speaker 2: Harvey nearly raped her. Gloria was unavailable at the time, 455 00:34:25,640 --> 00:34:28,080 Speaker 2: but one of the partners at her firm took the case. 456 00:34:29,360 --> 00:34:32,040 Speaker 2: He told Ashley that she wasn't strong enough to go 457 00:34:32,160 --> 00:34:36,200 Speaker 2: up against a producer like Harvey. He said her best 458 00:34:36,239 --> 00:34:40,000 Speaker 2: option was to sign an NDA in exchange for money, 459 00:34:40,920 --> 00:34:46,640 Speaker 2: of which the law firm would take a forty percent cut. Later, 460 00:34:47,040 --> 00:34:50,360 Speaker 2: when Ashley saw all the harm that Weinstein caused she 461 00:34:50,480 --> 00:34:52,279 Speaker 2: called Gloria to see if there was a way for 462 00:34:52,320 --> 00:34:56,960 Speaker 2: her to break her NDA. She recalled Gloria saying that 463 00:34:57,080 --> 00:34:59,920 Speaker 2: she was lucky to get her on the phone. Gloria 464 00:35:00,160 --> 00:35:04,839 Speaker 2: usually only talked to very important people. When she asked 465 00:35:04,840 --> 00:35:08,239 Speaker 2: about the NDA, Gloria basically told Ashley that she was 466 00:35:08,280 --> 00:35:13,640 Speaker 2: too poor to break anything. The firm bought a woman's silence, 467 00:35:14,200 --> 00:35:17,160 Speaker 2: and it wasn't the only time they'd done it. Gloria 468 00:35:17,200 --> 00:35:20,719 Speaker 2: herself also helped facilitate similar deals for victims of Bill 469 00:35:20,760 --> 00:35:26,640 Speaker 2: O'Reilly and ex gymnastics coach Larry Nasser. You could argue 470 00:35:26,640 --> 00:35:29,080 Speaker 2: that Gloria's firm was just doing what was best for 471 00:35:29,120 --> 00:35:33,399 Speaker 2: their client. Maybe they really believed that Ashley wouldn't hold 472 00:35:33,480 --> 00:35:36,520 Speaker 2: up to the life ruining scrutiny that comes with accusing 473 00:35:36,560 --> 00:35:40,799 Speaker 2: a powerful man of rape. If that was true, then 474 00:35:40,840 --> 00:35:43,680 Speaker 2: taking the money was the best way for her to 475 00:35:43,719 --> 00:35:47,800 Speaker 2: get anything out of a really traumatic event in her life. 476 00:35:47,960 --> 00:35:50,960 Speaker 2: Or maybe they thought that sixty percent of the NDA's 477 00:35:51,000 --> 00:35:55,839 Speaker 2: payoff was life changing money. Maybe she wasn't the prototype 478 00:35:56,000 --> 00:35:59,640 Speaker 2: of a deserving protagonist, so she could help herself, But 479 00:35:59,680 --> 00:36:02,520 Speaker 2: for what whatever reason, her case might not help other 480 00:36:02,560 --> 00:36:07,200 Speaker 2: women Any of these things could be true, but I 481 00:36:07,239 --> 00:36:09,920 Speaker 2: do know that no matter how you slice it, that 482 00:36:10,080 --> 00:36:15,400 Speaker 2: was Ashley's decision to make. So I don't know is 483 00:36:15,440 --> 00:36:20,000 Speaker 2: Gloria a hero, an ambulance chasing fame junkie or a 484 00:36:20,080 --> 00:36:23,719 Speaker 2: villain wearing the thin disguise of a women's rights crusader. 485 00:36:35,320 --> 00:36:38,320 Speaker 2: When she started out, Gloria wanted to change the systems 486 00:36:38,320 --> 00:36:42,719 Speaker 2: that hurt her. But that meant working inside them. And 487 00:36:42,760 --> 00:36:45,640 Speaker 2: we all know what happens when you gaze long into 488 00:36:45,640 --> 00:37:07,279 Speaker 2: the abyss, the abyss gazes back into you. Thank you 489 00:37:07,320 --> 00:37:10,839 Speaker 2: to Gloria Allread for her autobiography, Fight Back and Win, 490 00:37:11,400 --> 00:37:14,440 Speaker 2: My thirty year fight against Injustice and how you can 491 00:37:14,480 --> 00:37:17,440 Speaker 2: win your own battles. It was a great help in 492 00:37:17,480 --> 00:37:21,920 Speaker 2: writing this episode. Other sources include the film Seeing all 493 00:37:22,000 --> 00:37:25,960 Speaker 2: Read in several news articles. All of these sources are 494 00:37:26,000 --> 00:37:28,120 Speaker 2: linked in our show notes. If you want to learn more, 495 00:37:29,960 --> 00:37:32,680 Speaker 2: join me next week on the Greatest True Crime Stories 496 00:37:32,719 --> 00:37:37,400 Speaker 2: Ever told for the tragic story of Sinadu Taedessa, a 497 00:37:37,480 --> 00:37:41,759 Speaker 2: young woman who survived a turbulent childhood, studied hard, and 498 00:37:41,800 --> 00:37:44,719 Speaker 2: made it to Harvard, only to lose the battle with 499 00:37:44,800 --> 00:37:59,080 Speaker 2: her own mind. The greatest true crime Stories Ever Told 500 00:37:59,200 --> 00:38:03,000 Speaker 2: is a production of Diversion Audio. Your host is me 501 00:38:03,440 --> 00:38:07,000 Speaker 2: Mary Kay mcbraer and this episode was written by Zoe 502 00:38:07,160 --> 00:38:12,000 Speaker 2: Luisa Lewis. Our show is produced by Emma Dmouth and 503 00:38:12,200 --> 00:38:17,120 Speaker 2: edited by Antonio Enriquez. Our theme music is by Tyler Cash. 504 00:38:17,560 --> 00:38:19,880 Speaker 2: Executive produced by Scott Waxman.