1 00:00:00,120 --> 00:00:03,320 Speaker 1: Hi, everyone, I'm Katie Kuric, and this his next question. 2 00:00:05,120 --> 00:00:08,400 Speaker 1: If you've binged much TV this pandemic, you might have 3 00:00:08,480 --> 00:00:11,640 Speaker 1: happened upon a new reality TV show on Netflix called 4 00:00:12,119 --> 00:00:16,840 Speaker 1: My Unorthodox Life. It centered on Julia Hart, high powered 5 00:00:16,880 --> 00:00:20,840 Speaker 1: CEO and fashion designer with a pension for short skirts 6 00:00:20,880 --> 00:00:26,000 Speaker 1: and sky high heels. Okay, guys, hollow executive decision. Here 7 00:00:26,840 --> 00:00:29,680 Speaker 1: we are throwing out all the shoes. What what I want? 8 00:00:29,760 --> 00:00:33,680 Speaker 1: Like sixty pairs of those? Where? In between design meetings 9 00:00:33,680 --> 00:00:37,280 Speaker 1: and runway shows, Julia is also the cool, straight talk 10 00:00:37,320 --> 00:00:42,880 Speaker 1: and supportive mob to her for growing and grown up kids. No, seriously, 11 00:00:43,240 --> 00:00:45,280 Speaker 1: there's a reason I bought you a vibrator. There's no 12 00:00:45,320 --> 00:00:47,800 Speaker 1: way you can have someone pleasure you if you don't 13 00:00:47,800 --> 00:00:52,880 Speaker 1: know how to pleasure yourself. This glitzie, champagne filled modern 14 00:00:52,880 --> 00:00:56,880 Speaker 1: Manhattan lifestyle, as depicted in the series is a far 15 00:00:57,080 --> 00:01:01,360 Speaker 1: cry from the world Julia left in team. It's really 16 00:01:01,440 --> 00:01:04,360 Speaker 1: hard to imagine that just a few years ago I 17 00:01:04,400 --> 00:01:08,400 Speaker 1: was living in an extreme ultra Orthodox Jewish community they've 18 00:01:08,440 --> 00:01:11,920 Speaker 1: called the Yeshivasha hi misha for my entire align until 19 00:01:11,959 --> 00:01:15,000 Speaker 1: the time I was born. If you've ever watched the show, 20 00:01:15,000 --> 00:01:18,840 Speaker 1: and wondered, how did this happen? Well, Julia is ready 21 00:01:18,880 --> 00:01:23,160 Speaker 1: to share her full story and her new memoir called Brazen. 22 00:01:23,880 --> 00:01:27,800 Speaker 1: The show is just a snippet. It's a int of 23 00:01:27,920 --> 00:01:34,800 Speaker 1: what my past was. The book is the whole, messy, convoluted, complex, 24 00:01:35,040 --> 00:01:39,720 Speaker 1: disastrous story. The book covers it all, from her childhood 25 00:01:39,720 --> 00:01:44,080 Speaker 1: and communist Russia to the strict ultra Orthodox community to 26 00:01:44,240 --> 00:01:51,160 Speaker 1: the cutthroat New York fashion industry. Honestly, it's an unbelievable story. 27 00:01:52,000 --> 00:01:56,440 Speaker 1: Julia Hart, let's talk about you. You're a woman of 28 00:01:56,600 --> 00:02:02,840 Speaker 1: many names. Tell us about your your previous names and 29 00:02:03,240 --> 00:02:08,639 Speaker 1: how they represent very different parts of your life. Good questions, 30 00:02:08,680 --> 00:02:11,600 Speaker 1: so you know. Funnily enough, I was supposed to be 31 00:02:11,680 --> 00:02:14,520 Speaker 1: named Bernika, I who wanted to start at the very beginning. 32 00:02:15,040 --> 00:02:19,040 Speaker 1: But my parents came to the clerk in Russia at 33 00:02:19,080 --> 00:02:21,639 Speaker 1: the time to give you that name because it was 34 00:02:21,680 --> 00:02:26,280 Speaker 1: the name of a Russian Jewish princess, and refused it 35 00:02:26,400 --> 00:02:28,799 Speaker 1: because he said it's too Jewish sounding. You're going to 36 00:02:28,960 --> 00:02:32,160 Speaker 1: destroy your child's chances at the future. People shouldn't know 37 00:02:32,280 --> 00:02:35,560 Speaker 1: she's Jewish. So that's how I was supposed to be named. 38 00:02:35,639 --> 00:02:39,280 Speaker 1: And then when I was a baby, and I still 39 00:02:39,320 --> 00:02:43,079 Speaker 1: didn't have a name my parents. Uh, and I used 40 00:02:43,080 --> 00:02:45,919 Speaker 1: to dance around, we literally spin on my tush and 41 00:02:46,080 --> 00:02:50,440 Speaker 1: so there was a spinning top called Julia in Russia, 42 00:02:50,480 --> 00:02:54,360 Speaker 1: and so I became Julia. And when we moved to America, 43 00:02:54,560 --> 00:03:00,079 Speaker 1: Julia became Julia. And then in twelfth grade, in my 44 00:03:00,480 --> 00:03:04,720 Speaker 1: very ultra orthodox fundamentalist world, because I wanted a good sha, 45 00:03:05,040 --> 00:03:10,280 Speaker 1: a good match, Julia became Talia. Uh So Talia was 46 00:03:10,360 --> 00:03:14,959 Speaker 1: started in twelfth grade because the matchmakers told my parents, 47 00:03:15,040 --> 00:03:18,440 Speaker 1: Ton's gonna marry a Julia. Why because it's not a 48 00:03:18,520 --> 00:03:22,280 Speaker 1: Jewish name. And there's a whole big thing about Jewish names. 49 00:03:22,320 --> 00:03:25,440 Speaker 1: So like, um, when it talks about the Jews in Egypt, 50 00:03:25,560 --> 00:03:27,800 Speaker 1: it says that one of the reasons that God saved 51 00:03:27,840 --> 00:03:31,600 Speaker 1: them is because they kept their Jewish names. So it's 52 00:03:31,600 --> 00:03:34,399 Speaker 1: a very big deal not to have a secular name. 53 00:03:34,520 --> 00:03:36,280 Speaker 1: So like, for example, if you look at my children, 54 00:03:36,520 --> 00:03:43,280 Speaker 1: but Cheva, Shalomo, miriam Are, they're all very biblical names, right, people, 55 00:03:43,360 --> 00:03:46,440 Speaker 1: Like the only person in my class who had a 56 00:03:46,560 --> 00:03:51,200 Speaker 1: secular name was yours. Truly, they only one. So you know, 57 00:03:51,280 --> 00:03:54,600 Speaker 1: I stood out in that way, and so you know, 58 00:03:54,800 --> 00:03:57,360 Speaker 1: to up my chances of a good match. I know 59 00:03:57,440 --> 00:03:59,600 Speaker 1: it sounds like the eighteenth c. And right, because it was. 60 00:04:00,800 --> 00:04:04,120 Speaker 1: We changed my name from Julia to Talia, which is 61 00:04:04,160 --> 00:04:07,400 Speaker 1: a human name. It means the d of God. Uh. 62 00:04:07,520 --> 00:04:10,600 Speaker 1: And then when I left my community, I went back 63 00:04:10,720 --> 00:04:14,680 Speaker 1: to being Julia. So that's my name. History in a 64 00:04:14,800 --> 00:04:19,159 Speaker 1: nut saw, Well, let's talk about so many things in between, 65 00:04:19,440 --> 00:04:23,440 Speaker 1: starting at the very beginning. And your parents, Uh, they 66 00:04:23,480 --> 00:04:28,480 Speaker 1: were brilliant by all accounts. They become IBM engineers, but 67 00:04:28,600 --> 00:04:32,440 Speaker 1: in Russia and are part of the Communist Party. So 68 00:04:33,160 --> 00:04:38,440 Speaker 1: how and why did they escape communist Russia and land in, 69 00:04:38,880 --> 00:04:46,000 Speaker 1: of all places, Austin, Texas. So my parents are genuinely 70 00:04:46,760 --> 00:04:48,920 Speaker 1: extraordinarily brilliant. I mean, I think my mother is the 71 00:04:48,960 --> 00:04:51,960 Speaker 1: most brilliant person I've ever met in my life, hands down, 72 00:04:52,080 --> 00:04:56,280 Speaker 1: still to this day. Um. They were brought up on 73 00:04:56,400 --> 00:05:01,120 Speaker 1: the concept of a living for is m Uh. You 74 00:05:01,160 --> 00:05:05,440 Speaker 1: know this book by val Noel Harari called Homo Sapiens, 75 00:05:05,839 --> 00:05:08,400 Speaker 1: and it talks about how communism is a religion like 76 00:05:08,520 --> 00:05:10,800 Speaker 1: anything else, Right, a religion is when you have a 77 00:05:10,880 --> 00:05:14,120 Speaker 1: certain set of rules and there's that divisive feeling of 78 00:05:14,320 --> 00:05:16,400 Speaker 1: if you don't believe in this set of rules. You're 79 00:05:16,400 --> 00:05:20,160 Speaker 1: a bad person, you're evil, you're the devil. That's religious, right, 80 00:05:20,200 --> 00:05:24,040 Speaker 1: a set of rules and reward and punishment. Battle. So 81 00:05:24,520 --> 00:05:27,560 Speaker 1: they were brought up on the concept of communism. Now, 82 00:05:27,680 --> 00:05:31,680 Speaker 1: my mother wasn't really a devout Communists to begin with 83 00:05:31,920 --> 00:05:35,800 Speaker 1: because she had experienced a lot of anti Semitism in 84 00:05:35,839 --> 00:05:39,120 Speaker 1: her life, so she was not a believer, but she 85 00:05:39,320 --> 00:05:42,880 Speaker 1: wanted to be a belief right. And my father, now 86 00:05:43,080 --> 00:05:46,080 Speaker 1: his family was very high up in the Communist Party. 87 00:05:46,440 --> 00:05:49,080 Speaker 1: His father was a general in World War Two, and 88 00:05:49,200 --> 00:05:51,720 Speaker 1: my father was the head of the Consuma, which is 89 00:05:51,839 --> 00:05:56,480 Speaker 1: the youth arm of the Communist Party. Um. And they 90 00:05:56,520 --> 00:05:59,400 Speaker 1: were this very young, handsome couple. My mother I think 91 00:05:59,520 --> 00:06:01,520 Speaker 1: was twenty, My father was a nineteen. My mother's a 92 00:06:01,600 --> 00:06:05,840 Speaker 1: year older than my dad. And the Communist Party, this 93 00:06:06,040 --> 00:06:10,200 Speaker 1: is your going back in the early seventies, right, There 94 00:06:10,279 --> 00:06:12,720 Speaker 1: was actually the late sixties, because I was born in 95 00:06:12,839 --> 00:06:15,400 Speaker 1: nineteen seventy one, so you're going back to the late sixties, 96 00:06:15,480 --> 00:06:18,800 Speaker 1: early seventies. And you weren't allowed to travel. This is 97 00:06:18,839 --> 00:06:21,920 Speaker 1: pre Gorbal people weren't allowed to travel in Russia. They 98 00:06:22,000 --> 00:06:24,960 Speaker 1: stayed because you know, Communism didn't want you to see 99 00:06:25,000 --> 00:06:28,560 Speaker 1: what a disaster communism was. But because they thought my 100 00:06:28,640 --> 00:06:32,120 Speaker 1: parents were so committed, they thought that, you know, they 101 00:06:32,240 --> 00:06:35,640 Speaker 1: could go around this young, gorgeous couple and like spread 102 00:06:35,920 --> 00:06:39,320 Speaker 1: the word of communism. But what ended up happening when 103 00:06:39,360 --> 00:06:43,200 Speaker 1: my parents traveled around Russia is they realized the Communism 104 00:06:43,800 --> 00:06:47,360 Speaker 1: is a disaster and it doesn't work, and they saw 105 00:06:47,480 --> 00:06:53,440 Speaker 1: so much misery and unhappiness, and so they totally became 106 00:06:53,560 --> 00:07:00,320 Speaker 1: disillusioned with Communism, and so, like too very idealistic college 107 00:07:00,400 --> 00:07:04,159 Speaker 1: students who had been brought up on living foreign is um, 108 00:07:04,520 --> 00:07:08,440 Speaker 1: they went and searched for another ism, and what they 109 00:07:08,600 --> 00:07:12,880 Speaker 1: chose was Judaism. And so now here was a new 110 00:07:13,080 --> 00:07:17,680 Speaker 1: cause to live and die for, to put yourself in 111 00:07:17,840 --> 00:07:20,720 Speaker 1: danger for. And it was exciting, right because think about it, 112 00:07:21,080 --> 00:07:26,120 Speaker 1: when my parents lived in Russia, being religious, praying, going 113 00:07:26,200 --> 00:07:30,840 Speaker 1: to synagogue, following any religious edict was illegal. It could 114 00:07:30,920 --> 00:07:33,720 Speaker 1: land you in the Gulag. And my father was actually 115 00:07:33,840 --> 00:07:39,560 Speaker 1: arrested for practicing Judaism. And so at the same time, 116 00:07:39,640 --> 00:07:42,120 Speaker 1: so my father gets arrested, it's a whole big job, 117 00:07:42,160 --> 00:07:44,920 Speaker 1: and my mother just had me and they got arrested 118 00:07:45,000 --> 00:07:49,680 Speaker 1: because they were practicing Judaism and then there is this 119 00:07:49,880 --> 00:07:53,920 Speaker 1: bill passed by the United States UH called the Verick Bill, 120 00:07:54,560 --> 00:07:58,160 Speaker 1: which basically traded Jews for great because there was so 121 00:07:58,360 --> 00:08:01,720 Speaker 1: much anti Semitism in Communist Russia and there were so 122 00:08:01,840 --> 00:08:05,800 Speaker 1: many thousands of Jews that were suffering in Russia, and 123 00:08:06,040 --> 00:08:09,440 Speaker 1: they Russia also had a hunger, right, there was a 124 00:08:09,560 --> 00:08:13,040 Speaker 1: massive hunger. So basically the United States said, okay, we're 125 00:08:13,080 --> 00:08:15,440 Speaker 1: gonna embargo Grade and we're not gonna give you any 126 00:08:15,520 --> 00:08:18,600 Speaker 1: grain unless you give some Jews. So my parents I 127 00:08:18,880 --> 00:08:24,160 Speaker 1: were traded for grain and from there we took There 128 00:08:24,280 --> 00:08:28,080 Speaker 1: was an organization called Pius which basically took Jews out 129 00:08:28,160 --> 00:08:30,880 Speaker 1: of Russia. First we were put into I don't want 130 00:08:30,880 --> 00:08:33,840 Speaker 1: to say the word interment camp because that sounds pretty negative, 131 00:08:34,840 --> 00:08:38,560 Speaker 1: a holding camp I don't know, in Austria for six 132 00:08:38,679 --> 00:08:40,960 Speaker 1: months before they figured out what to do with us. 133 00:08:41,080 --> 00:08:44,160 Speaker 1: Then we moved to Italy and we're in a holding 134 00:08:44,200 --> 00:08:48,080 Speaker 1: camp in Italy that was run by the Vacuum. Actually, 135 00:08:48,080 --> 00:08:51,280 Speaker 1: the Vatican helped me get out of Russia and into 136 00:08:51,320 --> 00:08:54,960 Speaker 1: the United States UH, and we lived there for six months. 137 00:08:55,120 --> 00:08:58,400 Speaker 1: And the way that it worked is someone had to 138 00:08:58,480 --> 00:09:02,480 Speaker 1: adopt your family and sure that someone we pay for 139 00:09:02,520 --> 00:09:06,040 Speaker 1: your apartment, for your housing until you got on your 140 00:09:06,080 --> 00:09:09,679 Speaker 1: own feet and were able to support yourself. So the 141 00:09:09,800 --> 00:09:16,040 Speaker 1: Jewish community of Austin, Texas basically adopted my family. And 142 00:09:16,200 --> 00:09:18,679 Speaker 1: how old were you at the time, Julia, when you 143 00:09:18,760 --> 00:09:21,600 Speaker 1: got to Austin three and a half years old. By 144 00:09:21,640 --> 00:09:24,079 Speaker 1: the time I got to Austin, I was five. You 145 00:09:24,200 --> 00:09:27,400 Speaker 1: get to Austin and you live a pretty normal life. 146 00:09:27,559 --> 00:09:30,360 Speaker 1: I mean, you go to a private school, you have 147 00:09:30,559 --> 00:09:35,040 Speaker 1: lots of non Jewish friends, you wear shorts, and then 148 00:09:35,160 --> 00:09:40,920 Speaker 1: suddenly things change. What happened. So it's interesting because you know, 149 00:09:41,080 --> 00:09:43,360 Speaker 1: those are the only happy memories I have in my 150 00:09:43,520 --> 00:09:46,040 Speaker 1: childhood at this time in Austin, and my life was 151 00:09:47,720 --> 00:09:50,120 Speaker 1: you know, and I and as you said, I had friends, 152 00:09:50,440 --> 00:09:53,960 Speaker 1: I was learning about the world outside. I had all 153 00:09:54,080 --> 00:09:58,520 Speaker 1: the possibility in front of me. Um. And then my 154 00:09:58,720 --> 00:10:03,120 Speaker 1: parents went again searching for an is m to suffer forth. 155 00:10:03,760 --> 00:10:07,319 Speaker 1: And it was the conservative and reformed communities that adopted 156 00:10:07,400 --> 00:10:12,640 Speaker 1: my family. But it was the ultra orthodox community that 157 00:10:12,880 --> 00:10:16,319 Speaker 1: my parents felt the most drawn to because it was 158 00:10:16,400 --> 00:10:22,240 Speaker 1: the most difficult. It required sacrifice, and I told you 159 00:10:22,400 --> 00:10:25,000 Speaker 1: all the rules, you didn't have to wonder about anything. 160 00:10:25,400 --> 00:10:28,920 Speaker 1: It removed free choice completely if it wasn't in the Torah, 161 00:10:29,400 --> 00:10:32,120 Speaker 1: no worries, you can and ask your eye. You don't 162 00:10:32,120 --> 00:10:36,280 Speaker 1: have to make any decisions by yourself, and think about it. 163 00:10:36,480 --> 00:10:40,679 Speaker 1: My mother is the most brilliant person I know, and 164 00:10:40,880 --> 00:10:44,280 Speaker 1: she chose a way of life for women are not 165 00:10:44,559 --> 00:10:51,640 Speaker 1: allowed to be educated. She literally martyred herself on the 166 00:10:52,120 --> 00:10:57,120 Speaker 1: cross of another. You say they were drawn to the 167 00:10:57,280 --> 00:11:04,080 Speaker 1: Orthodox Church, and I'm curious why psychologically is it because 168 00:11:04,160 --> 00:11:08,240 Speaker 1: they were so ingrained with sort of this notion of 169 00:11:08,760 --> 00:11:15,480 Speaker 1: following that communism encourages that that was sort of it 170 00:11:15,640 --> 00:11:20,720 Speaker 1: was almost in their DNA exactly. That's what I genuinely believe. 171 00:11:21,160 --> 00:11:29,160 Speaker 1: Freedom is frightening. With choice comes fear the unknown mistakes. Right. 172 00:11:29,840 --> 00:11:33,679 Speaker 1: Many people love to be told what to do. And 173 00:11:34,600 --> 00:11:37,240 Speaker 1: I think that my parents were brought up with the 174 00:11:37,400 --> 00:11:40,959 Speaker 1: idea that there has to be a cause greater than you, 175 00:11:42,480 --> 00:11:46,200 Speaker 1: that there is a set of rules that someone greater 176 00:11:46,320 --> 00:11:50,599 Speaker 1: than you has written that defines your life, and the 177 00:11:50,760 --> 00:11:55,520 Speaker 1: more difficult that set of rules, the better. Because they 178 00:11:55,600 --> 00:11:58,760 Speaker 1: were brought up with that idea of suffering for a 179 00:11:58,840 --> 00:12:03,160 Speaker 1: cause to they just switched causes. Having said that they 180 00:12:03,200 --> 00:12:08,920 Speaker 1: were considered lost Jews because they came to this Orthodox 181 00:12:09,760 --> 00:12:16,679 Speaker 1: Jewish faith from being less that and that really affected 182 00:12:16,840 --> 00:12:22,520 Speaker 1: their place in society in a way explained that for us, Julia, 183 00:12:23,600 --> 00:12:25,480 Speaker 1: I think the easiest way to do it is if 184 00:12:25,520 --> 00:12:29,360 Speaker 1: you've ever seen any movies like Um Down to Nabbey 185 00:12:29,760 --> 00:12:34,079 Speaker 1: or what's the latest Bridgerton, or any where there is 186 00:12:34,120 --> 00:12:36,880 Speaker 1: a guilded age, the guilded age. Did you want to 187 00:12:36,960 --> 00:12:39,839 Speaker 1: understand my child like that community? Just go back a 188 00:12:39,920 --> 00:12:44,040 Speaker 1: hundred years. It's exactly that mine is the really fabulous 189 00:12:44,040 --> 00:12:48,199 Speaker 1: stresses and parties. But other than that, the whole concept 190 00:12:48,400 --> 00:12:51,720 Speaker 1: of the fact that your biology defines your destiny. Women 191 00:12:51,800 --> 00:12:55,000 Speaker 1: have certain roles and their intellect is x. Men have 192 00:12:55,080 --> 00:12:58,760 Speaker 1: certain roles and their intellect is why. And within society 193 00:12:59,320 --> 00:13:03,640 Speaker 1: there's that class structure. So in my society there are 194 00:13:03,720 --> 00:13:07,520 Speaker 1: the nobles, just like there were nobles in England. Those 195 00:13:07,640 --> 00:13:11,960 Speaker 1: nobles instead of being born to lords or dukes or duchesses, 196 00:13:12,480 --> 00:13:18,120 Speaker 1: they're born to great rabbis, and that's nobility. Those people, 197 00:13:18,240 --> 00:13:22,400 Speaker 1: and especially if you are family stayed religious through World 198 00:13:22,440 --> 00:13:26,640 Speaker 1: War Two, stayed religious through you know, coming to the 199 00:13:26,760 --> 00:13:30,360 Speaker 1: United States, you were like coming from the Mayflower. It's 200 00:13:30,440 --> 00:13:33,040 Speaker 1: exactly the same as the guilded age, right, you were 201 00:13:33,120 --> 00:13:38,000 Speaker 1: blue bloods, and so to marry into those families, either 202 00:13:38,120 --> 00:13:40,280 Speaker 1: you have to be a noble or a blue blood 203 00:13:40,320 --> 00:13:42,920 Speaker 1: too write either you have to have great lineage in 204 00:13:43,000 --> 00:13:46,240 Speaker 1: your background or what was the one thing that bought 205 00:13:46,280 --> 00:13:49,520 Speaker 1: you lineage in those days. You may not have noble blood, 206 00:13:49,559 --> 00:13:52,280 Speaker 1: but you've got enough money, then you can buy yourself 207 00:13:52,320 --> 00:13:55,280 Speaker 1: a noble husband with a lot of lineage. And that's 208 00:13:55,320 --> 00:13:57,920 Speaker 1: how your family grows in stature. And by the way, 209 00:13:58,360 --> 00:14:00,640 Speaker 1: even though when I was getting married by parents didn't 210 00:14:00,679 --> 00:14:03,240 Speaker 1: have enough money to buy us a lineage, by the 211 00:14:03,320 --> 00:14:06,640 Speaker 1: time my younger brothers getting married, they did. And so 212 00:14:06,840 --> 00:14:13,640 Speaker 1: my brothers all married into very rabbinic famous families. Who 213 00:14:13,679 --> 00:14:16,840 Speaker 1: would have you know, so many rabbis and their past 214 00:14:16,960 --> 00:14:19,040 Speaker 1: in the whole nine yards. So in the end, my 215 00:14:19,120 --> 00:14:23,800 Speaker 1: parents did succeed in marrying into the Jewish nobility. But 216 00:14:24,080 --> 00:14:28,360 Speaker 1: for me, when I was growing up, you know, my parents, 217 00:14:28,560 --> 00:14:31,800 Speaker 1: my father was just slowly starting to build his fortune. 218 00:14:32,480 --> 00:14:35,840 Speaker 1: Uh you know, even though we had what the outside 219 00:14:35,880 --> 00:14:39,160 Speaker 1: world would stir fantastical life, you know, a nice middle 220 00:14:39,280 --> 00:14:44,080 Speaker 1: class upbringing, in my world, we were poor dirt bol right, 221 00:14:44,160 --> 00:14:47,600 Speaker 1: because to be wealthy in that world, you've got to 222 00:14:47,680 --> 00:14:51,200 Speaker 1: be crazy wealthy. We're talking. It's not enough to even 223 00:14:51,240 --> 00:14:53,760 Speaker 1: be a millionaire. You've got to have tens of millions 224 00:14:53,760 --> 00:14:56,960 Speaker 1: of dollars because you have to support your eleven children 225 00:14:57,320 --> 00:15:00,240 Speaker 1: or your thirteen children and their children, and you have 226 00:15:00,320 --> 00:15:02,920 Speaker 1: to pay for their education. So the amount, like I 227 00:15:03,040 --> 00:15:05,360 Speaker 1: think my father once told me at a certain point 228 00:15:05,480 --> 00:15:07,440 Speaker 1: he was spending close to a million dollars a month 229 00:15:07,520 --> 00:15:11,520 Speaker 1: supporting all my siblings and all of their children. Most 230 00:15:11,600 --> 00:15:16,480 Speaker 1: of my siblings have between five, six, seven, eight nine children. 231 00:15:17,360 --> 00:15:19,520 Speaker 1: The map, you have eight kids and they each have 232 00:15:19,680 --> 00:15:22,640 Speaker 1: ten kids. You've had eighty grandchildren you have to support. 233 00:15:23,040 --> 00:15:27,400 Speaker 1: You've got to be very wealthy. So when I was 234 00:15:27,480 --> 00:15:30,280 Speaker 1: growing up, we didn't have that kind of wealth, right. 235 00:15:30,680 --> 00:15:35,000 Speaker 1: And so because I was not born religious, because I 236 00:15:35,120 --> 00:15:39,040 Speaker 1: was not brought up religious, because I was Russian, I 237 00:15:39,240 --> 00:15:42,480 Speaker 1: was a second class citizen. Act that being a second 238 00:15:42,480 --> 00:15:47,200 Speaker 1: class citizen because you're a woman not so fun. In shot, 239 00:15:47,280 --> 00:15:49,520 Speaker 1: I was a second class citizen because I was a Jew, 240 00:15:50,000 --> 00:15:52,280 Speaker 1: and then the Jews community, I was a second class 241 00:15:52,280 --> 00:15:56,120 Speaker 1: citizen because I was born in Russia. Go figure. So 242 00:15:56,320 --> 00:15:59,680 Speaker 1: then your mom gets pregnant when you're ten years old Julia, 243 00:16:00,480 --> 00:16:05,800 Speaker 1: and that seems to push her over the edge, driving 244 00:16:05,880 --> 00:16:13,160 Speaker 1: her further and further into Orthodox ideology and practices. Tell 245 00:16:13,280 --> 00:16:18,400 Speaker 1: us about that, Well, my mother was unable to have children. Um, 246 00:16:18,480 --> 00:16:21,040 Speaker 1: I was her miracle baby. She was told she could 247 00:16:21,080 --> 00:16:24,360 Speaker 1: never have children. I was her miracle baby. And then 248 00:16:24,440 --> 00:16:29,280 Speaker 1: she had multiple miscarriages after me, between myself and my 249 00:16:30,080 --> 00:16:32,600 Speaker 1: my sister who's after me, who's ten years younger than I. 250 00:16:33,520 --> 00:16:36,320 Speaker 1: So in that ten year period, she had miscarriage after 251 00:16:36,440 --> 00:16:40,600 Speaker 1: miscarriage after miscarriage. By the way, I've had six miscarriages. 252 00:16:40,640 --> 00:16:45,760 Speaker 1: I've been pregnant ten dies, unruly or not. She had 253 00:16:46,200 --> 00:16:50,640 Speaker 1: all these miscarriages and then she becomes co shirt and 254 00:16:50,720 --> 00:16:56,360 Speaker 1: religious and immediately becomes pregnant. So in her mind, that's 255 00:16:56,400 --> 00:17:00,640 Speaker 1: God saying, you know you're doing the right thing. Now 256 00:17:00,840 --> 00:17:03,520 Speaker 1: you're following my laws. I'm going to give you children. 257 00:17:04,080 --> 00:17:06,720 Speaker 1: And so it was one after the other. It was 258 00:17:06,880 --> 00:17:10,480 Speaker 1: mere a bunch of Hannah. And then not eleven months later, 259 00:17:10,600 --> 00:17:12,600 Speaker 1: my brother yisclock was born. There not even a year 260 00:17:12,640 --> 00:17:16,840 Speaker 1: apart their eleven months. Ele months later, my brother ysclock 261 00:17:16,960 --> 00:17:20,800 Speaker 1: was born, and then the other seventh the wounds. What 262 00:17:20,960 --> 00:17:26,680 Speaker 1: did it look like for her to reward the blessing 263 00:17:27,040 --> 00:17:32,320 Speaker 1: of motherhood with deeper and deeper religious practices. How did 264 00:17:32,440 --> 00:17:35,359 Speaker 1: life in your house change? I mean, I became the 265 00:17:35,440 --> 00:17:38,440 Speaker 1: mother because and nothing, not in any way shave or 266 00:17:38,520 --> 00:17:43,560 Speaker 1: form to denigrate her. But she had terrible pregnancieds and 267 00:17:43,720 --> 00:17:48,600 Speaker 1: no help, and so she gave birth to Hanna, and 268 00:17:48,680 --> 00:17:51,440 Speaker 1: then two months later became pregnant again, and so she 269 00:17:51,480 --> 00:17:53,440 Speaker 1: couldn't take care of her first baby because she was 270 00:17:53,480 --> 00:17:56,520 Speaker 1: pregnant with her second, and she had placenta, previa and 271 00:17:56,960 --> 00:18:00,440 Speaker 1: all sorts of crazy things. So it fell upon me 272 00:18:00,600 --> 00:18:03,720 Speaker 1: to watch my daughter, my sister, and and I say 273 00:18:03,760 --> 00:18:07,280 Speaker 1: my daughter because genuinely, when I got engaged and moved 274 00:18:07,320 --> 00:18:11,040 Speaker 1: out of the house, my siblings packed their bags. They 275 00:18:11,080 --> 00:18:14,320 Speaker 1: didn't realize they weren't coming with me, because the entire 276 00:18:14,440 --> 00:18:16,399 Speaker 1: time that they were growing up, they called me mommy. 277 00:18:16,640 --> 00:18:19,000 Speaker 1: They thought most families have two mothers and a dapt 278 00:18:19,800 --> 00:18:22,200 Speaker 1: because that's you know. I was the one who put 279 00:18:22,280 --> 00:18:23,719 Speaker 1: them to bed every night. I was the one who 280 00:18:23,760 --> 00:18:26,440 Speaker 1: did homework with them. I was the one who, you know, 281 00:18:26,640 --> 00:18:30,399 Speaker 1: wiped their little bottoms and changed their diapers, and I 282 00:18:30,720 --> 00:18:34,480 Speaker 1: it felt to me to set um. And again, nothing 283 00:18:34,600 --> 00:18:39,960 Speaker 1: against my mother. She was constantly pregnant or having miscarriages 284 00:18:40,280 --> 00:18:43,040 Speaker 1: or pregnant again or you know, and it's very, very 285 00:18:43,160 --> 00:18:47,119 Speaker 1: overus on a woman's body to be constantly in that state. 286 00:18:47,560 --> 00:18:50,960 Speaker 1: So I understand why she needed my help. Um, but 287 00:18:51,080 --> 00:18:55,480 Speaker 1: of course it was a tremendous load on a very 288 00:18:55,560 --> 00:18:58,840 Speaker 1: young person. She ended up having seven more kids. So 289 00:18:59,040 --> 00:19:03,119 Speaker 1: did you resent the fact that you were responsible for 290 00:19:03,280 --> 00:19:07,239 Speaker 1: them and taking care of them? Yes, I absolutely did. 291 00:19:07,320 --> 00:19:11,440 Speaker 1: I had no childhood. I you know, on the weekends, 292 00:19:12,040 --> 00:19:13,760 Speaker 1: you know, my friends would go and hang out with 293 00:19:13,840 --> 00:19:15,920 Speaker 1: each other on choppers because you're not allowed to drive. 294 00:19:16,040 --> 00:19:19,880 Speaker 1: You're not allowed to you know, you can't use electricity, right. Um, 295 00:19:20,160 --> 00:19:23,240 Speaker 1: I was stuck at home every day watching my siblings. 296 00:19:23,840 --> 00:19:25,960 Speaker 1: You know. I would come home from school, do my 297 00:19:26,119 --> 00:19:30,320 Speaker 1: homework and do homework with my siblings, put them to bed, 298 00:19:30,680 --> 00:19:34,520 Speaker 1: feed them, clean, you know, do the laundry. It was 299 00:19:35,560 --> 00:19:37,680 Speaker 1: you know, I mean, it prepared me for my life. 300 00:19:39,600 --> 00:19:43,359 Speaker 1: But you know, I was NonStop, you know, and it 301 00:19:43,520 --> 00:19:45,960 Speaker 1: was I think the part of it that was the 302 00:19:46,040 --> 00:19:47,920 Speaker 1: most difficult, other in fact that I didn't really have 303 00:19:48,000 --> 00:19:52,600 Speaker 1: a childhood, is that that responsibility weighed very heavily on 304 00:19:52,760 --> 00:19:56,520 Speaker 1: me and being left alone to babysit children. When you're 305 00:19:56,520 --> 00:19:59,320 Speaker 1: eleven years old and there are three newborns in the house, 306 00:20:00,000 --> 00:20:03,320 Speaker 1: it's really scary. And were there other ways the religion 307 00:20:03,520 --> 00:20:07,119 Speaker 1: kind of manifested itself. I mean, what about the deadly 308 00:20:07,240 --> 00:20:11,200 Speaker 1: religious practices that sort of took hold in your household? 309 00:20:11,320 --> 00:20:14,000 Speaker 1: So it was not only just all these babies being 310 00:20:14,080 --> 00:20:16,520 Speaker 1: born and you having to care for them, but what 311 00:20:16,720 --> 00:20:20,879 Speaker 1: else was happening in your home? So on the other side, 312 00:20:21,480 --> 00:20:26,560 Speaker 1: was you know, the destruction of everything. I would say 313 00:20:26,640 --> 00:20:30,800 Speaker 1: in the sense that you know, as we became more 314 00:20:30,840 --> 00:20:35,119 Speaker 1: and more religious, my life shrunk smaller and smaller. So 315 00:20:35,760 --> 00:20:38,840 Speaker 1: first it was okay, you can't go anywhere in childhood 316 00:20:38,880 --> 00:20:41,480 Speaker 1: because you can't dry. Then it was you can't bet 317 00:20:41,520 --> 00:20:44,800 Speaker 1: that your friend's house because they're not coucia. So then 318 00:20:45,240 --> 00:20:49,000 Speaker 1: that immediately created this massive separation between me and my friends. 319 00:20:49,080 --> 00:20:52,200 Speaker 1: People don't realize if you can't have a meal with someone, 320 00:20:52,920 --> 00:20:56,399 Speaker 1: go to someone's house for lunch, it really divides you. 321 00:20:57,040 --> 00:21:01,160 Speaker 1: I went from being intellectually stimulated thing that the world 322 00:21:01,520 --> 00:21:04,480 Speaker 1: was my oyster that and I could accomplish anything, to 323 00:21:04,600 --> 00:21:07,399 Speaker 1: being told that all those things are bad and that 324 00:21:07,560 --> 00:21:11,360 Speaker 1: I shouldn't be interested in learning, that I should never 325 00:21:11,440 --> 00:21:14,840 Speaker 1: do anything forward facing, that my purpose in life is 326 00:21:14,920 --> 00:21:17,600 Speaker 1: to be in the background. And I would say that 327 00:21:17,720 --> 00:21:22,040 Speaker 1: the one word that made my life so small as 328 00:21:22,080 --> 00:21:26,520 Speaker 1: to be unendurable was the word modesty. This idea that 329 00:21:27,760 --> 00:21:31,880 Speaker 1: I am responsible for men's thoughts, that men aren't capable 330 00:21:32,000 --> 00:21:36,320 Speaker 1: of controlling their own desires, and that my purpose in 331 00:21:36,440 --> 00:21:40,360 Speaker 1: life is to help a man be the great tour scholar. 332 00:21:40,720 --> 00:21:43,320 Speaker 1: That's the only way to goodness in my world, and 333 00:21:43,440 --> 00:21:45,760 Speaker 1: therefore the only way to being evil in my world 334 00:21:45,920 --> 00:21:48,719 Speaker 1: was to distract a man from his tower learning. How 335 00:21:48,720 --> 00:21:51,160 Speaker 1: does one distract a man from his tour line? While 336 00:21:51,200 --> 00:21:55,040 Speaker 1: you may sing, and therefore he may get attracted, you 337 00:21:55,160 --> 00:21:57,520 Speaker 1: could dance, and he'd see a dance and get attracted. 338 00:21:57,920 --> 00:22:00,920 Speaker 1: So when you have this concept that your purse in 339 00:22:01,040 --> 00:22:03,800 Speaker 1: life is only in relation to a man, to be 340 00:22:03,920 --> 00:22:06,280 Speaker 1: a good woman, you have to be behind the scenes, 341 00:22:06,840 --> 00:22:09,720 Speaker 1: don't cause any trouble, be his help, maybe the school 342 00:22:09,800 --> 00:22:11,480 Speaker 1: that he stands on, so that he can be a 343 00:22:11,560 --> 00:22:16,120 Speaker 1: great scholar. And the flip side, if you distract him, 344 00:22:16,320 --> 00:22:19,119 Speaker 1: you're an evil person, and it's on you. Instance on 345 00:22:20,040 --> 00:22:24,320 Speaker 1: that concept that a woman has to shrink herself and 346 00:22:24,480 --> 00:22:30,200 Speaker 1: make herself almost invisible so that a man would never 347 00:22:30,520 --> 00:22:34,920 Speaker 1: come to sin. It was the most unendurable part of 348 00:22:34,960 --> 00:22:37,400 Speaker 1: my life because I'm not quiet, and I'm not shy, 349 00:22:37,760 --> 00:22:40,520 Speaker 1: and I'm not a background person, and I love to 350 00:22:40,680 --> 00:22:44,920 Speaker 1: learn and I'm curious about everything, and I was constantly 351 00:22:45,000 --> 00:22:47,840 Speaker 1: told that my intellect was an inferior to a man's. 352 00:22:48,880 --> 00:22:51,560 Speaker 1: And you know, you get told something enough times, you 353 00:22:51,680 --> 00:22:57,160 Speaker 1: start believing it. When we come back, how Julia found 354 00:22:57,200 --> 00:23:14,560 Speaker 1: the courage to escape. Fast forward to nineteen Julia, you're 355 00:23:14,640 --> 00:23:19,880 Speaker 1: married off and living in this conservative community in Monsey. 356 00:23:20,440 --> 00:23:24,159 Speaker 1: Can you describe what Monsey was light and if somebody 357 00:23:24,280 --> 00:23:27,840 Speaker 1: dropped down from Mars, what they would see in that community? 358 00:23:28,520 --> 00:23:33,680 Speaker 1: You see women in shad pushing baby carriages with lots 359 00:23:33,720 --> 00:23:36,920 Speaker 1: of children all around. Uh. You see men in black 360 00:23:37,000 --> 00:23:40,680 Speaker 1: hats walking in pacts with white shirts from one yeshiva 361 00:23:40,760 --> 00:23:45,320 Speaker 1: twush different yeshiva. There are synagogues in every corner. And 362 00:23:45,400 --> 00:23:48,480 Speaker 1: why do women always wear wigs? It has to do 363 00:23:48,600 --> 00:23:52,080 Speaker 1: with the fact that your hair is very attractive, and 364 00:23:52,160 --> 00:23:54,720 Speaker 1: so when you get married, the only person that you 365 00:23:54,760 --> 00:23:58,760 Speaker 1: should be attracting is your husband. Therefore, no other man 366 00:23:58,920 --> 00:24:02,440 Speaker 1: should ever see your hair. Um and when I remember saying, 367 00:24:02,760 --> 00:24:04,800 Speaker 1: I remember asking and said, but the wigs look as 368 00:24:04,840 --> 00:24:07,800 Speaker 1: beautiful as real hair does. And I was answered by 369 00:24:07,840 --> 00:24:11,960 Speaker 1: a rabbi, when you see a fake apple at a table, 370 00:24:12,880 --> 00:24:16,680 Speaker 1: do you want to bite into it? And so it 371 00:24:16,840 --> 00:24:19,639 Speaker 1: was all about if it's your real hair moves and 372 00:24:19,760 --> 00:24:24,000 Speaker 1: it's sexy, and so a man will bite into it, 373 00:24:24,080 --> 00:24:26,440 Speaker 1: so to speak, but not if it's fake. Right. So 374 00:24:26,840 --> 00:24:29,800 Speaker 1: not only that, but there are humbers, there are laws 375 00:24:29,880 --> 00:24:31,920 Speaker 1: that are what what can I say? That are like 376 00:24:32,720 --> 00:24:36,040 Speaker 1: additions to the actual law that people follow because they 377 00:24:36,119 --> 00:24:39,399 Speaker 1: want to have righteous children or they're want to righteous husband. 378 00:24:39,840 --> 00:24:44,000 Speaker 1: And I was though I did righteous children. Not only 379 00:24:44,080 --> 00:24:47,960 Speaker 1: could I not wear my hair uncovered outside of the house, 380 00:24:48,400 --> 00:24:51,800 Speaker 1: I had to sleep with my hair covered because the 381 00:24:52,040 --> 00:24:56,520 Speaker 1: walls of my house should not see my nakedness. And 382 00:24:56,680 --> 00:25:00,800 Speaker 1: you started to question who am I? I am I here? 383 00:25:01,720 --> 00:25:07,800 Speaker 1: And what happens? Do you have an epiphany about your 384 00:25:07,920 --> 00:25:14,120 Speaker 1: faith and your life? Yes, so my entire life. From 385 00:25:14,160 --> 00:25:17,400 Speaker 1: the moment I moved into that community, I really struggled 386 00:25:17,480 --> 00:25:19,520 Speaker 1: being who I am as a person and who I 387 00:25:19,600 --> 00:25:23,120 Speaker 1: was supposed to be to please God. The easiest way 388 00:25:23,119 --> 00:25:25,800 Speaker 1: to explain it is like you feel like you don't 389 00:25:25,880 --> 00:25:29,879 Speaker 1: belong your own skin. I spent my life is she? 390 00:25:30,240 --> 00:25:32,920 Speaker 1: I don't know how else to say, because who you 391 00:25:33,000 --> 00:25:36,280 Speaker 1: are and who you're supposed to be, don't you no 392 00:25:36,359 --> 00:25:41,040 Speaker 1: matter how hard you trying. And so I wanted to know, 393 00:25:41,320 --> 00:25:44,160 Speaker 1: why can't I study? Why can't I learn good? Why 394 00:25:44,200 --> 00:25:47,359 Speaker 1: can't I study the talment? Why are men smarter than women? 395 00:25:47,520 --> 00:25:49,879 Speaker 1: I don't think men are smarter than women. Why do 396 00:25:49,960 --> 00:25:52,320 Speaker 1: I have to be subservient and obedient to my husband? 397 00:25:53,240 --> 00:25:55,399 Speaker 1: But I thought that that made me a bad person. 398 00:25:56,200 --> 00:25:58,920 Speaker 1: And then my daughter, Miriam, is black, and this kid 399 00:25:59,119 --> 00:26:02,919 Speaker 1: is literally on from day one, a rebel. A rebel 400 00:26:03,440 --> 00:26:06,520 Speaker 1: doesn't care about anything or what people say. If it's 401 00:26:06,560 --> 00:26:09,480 Speaker 1: not logical, she's not going to do it. And she 402 00:26:09,720 --> 00:26:14,160 Speaker 1: started questioning at five years of age, and she would 403 00:26:14,240 --> 00:26:18,080 Speaker 1: go to my husband and she would say, Alva, I 404 00:26:18,359 --> 00:26:21,680 Speaker 1: want to play sucker, I want to ride a bike 405 00:26:21,720 --> 00:26:25,240 Speaker 1: in jeans, I want to play basketball, I want to 406 00:26:25,280 --> 00:26:30,320 Speaker 1: sing at the passover table. And she was told no, no, no, 407 00:26:30,680 --> 00:26:34,240 Speaker 1: And she would say why and her teachers and my 408 00:26:34,600 --> 00:26:39,879 Speaker 1: husband would say, because it might make a man attracted 409 00:26:39,920 --> 00:26:42,800 Speaker 1: to you. And she would say, but why is that? 410 00:26:42,960 --> 00:26:46,399 Speaker 1: My problem? Is he responsible for my sins. And I 411 00:26:46,520 --> 00:26:52,040 Speaker 1: was like, yeah, that's exactly right. She was fine five 412 00:26:52,160 --> 00:26:56,600 Speaker 1: years old, literally, this little five year old, And they 413 00:26:56,720 --> 00:26:59,880 Speaker 1: had convinced me that I was bad for thinking these things, 414 00:27:00,600 --> 00:27:03,920 Speaker 1: but I had never voiced it out publicly, and to 415 00:27:04,040 --> 00:27:06,960 Speaker 1: have my five year old day. They could not convince 416 00:27:07,040 --> 00:27:10,760 Speaker 1: me that she was equal. So she gave me permission 417 00:27:10,840 --> 00:27:14,480 Speaker 1: to question. She is the reason I set herself. It's 418 00:27:14,480 --> 00:27:18,920 Speaker 1: not that something's wrong with me. Miriam started making you 419 00:27:19,160 --> 00:27:23,639 Speaker 1: question your own faith, Miriam, your second daughter. But it 420 00:27:23,880 --> 00:27:27,960 Speaker 1: was a slow boil for you. You didn't have this 421 00:27:28,200 --> 00:27:31,440 Speaker 1: aha moment, I'm out of here, like, you're right, Mariam, 422 00:27:31,640 --> 00:27:35,480 Speaker 1: let's hit the road. This took a tremendous amount of 423 00:27:35,600 --> 00:27:39,680 Speaker 1: thought and courage. What was it like when you severed 424 00:27:39,760 --> 00:27:44,680 Speaker 1: yourself from this way of life that your parents believed 425 00:27:44,760 --> 00:27:49,359 Speaker 1: in so deeply, and that was really almost all you 426 00:27:49,480 --> 00:27:53,600 Speaker 1: had ever known, at least from a young age. It 427 00:27:54,080 --> 00:27:57,119 Speaker 1: you know, I think the easiest way to describe what 428 00:27:57,200 --> 00:27:59,720 Speaker 1: it felt like. Did you ever see that movie Caden 429 00:27:59,760 --> 00:28:06,080 Speaker 1: the Gold? Yes? I did. Yes, wasn't it with Hugh Jackman? Yes? 430 00:28:06,160 --> 00:28:09,399 Speaker 1: Remember he's like an inventor. He drops in in this 431 00:28:09,560 --> 00:28:13,520 Speaker 1: wormhole time into the twenty first century, and he's just 432 00:28:13,680 --> 00:28:19,320 Speaker 1: like so disoriented and discombobulated. That was me. That's what 433 00:28:19,480 --> 00:28:23,240 Speaker 1: it felt like. You were walking into a world. I 434 00:28:23,320 --> 00:28:25,960 Speaker 1: didn't know a single person. I've never been on a date. 435 00:28:26,600 --> 00:28:29,320 Speaker 1: I'd never gone to a bar, I've never been to 436 00:28:29,440 --> 00:28:32,240 Speaker 1: a club. I didn't know what an invoice was. I 437 00:28:32,280 --> 00:28:36,040 Speaker 1: didn't know what a contract was. I didn't know anything 438 00:28:36,320 --> 00:28:41,520 Speaker 1: about anything. And not only that, nobody knew me. It 439 00:28:41,720 --> 00:28:45,440 Speaker 1: is a it's a kind of, I guess, an existential question. 440 00:28:45,560 --> 00:28:48,080 Speaker 1: Do you exist? If no one knows of your existence. 441 00:28:49,200 --> 00:28:53,360 Speaker 1: It's a very disorienting feeling to be dropped in a 442 00:28:53,440 --> 00:28:57,560 Speaker 1: world where nobody at all, no one, not a single 443 00:28:57,720 --> 00:29:02,760 Speaker 1: human being, knows you. It's really frightening and terrifying. I 444 00:29:02,920 --> 00:29:07,280 Speaker 1: was terrified, terrified, completely terrified, stress out of my mind, 445 00:29:08,320 --> 00:29:10,880 Speaker 1: looking at around myself and like what how am I 446 00:29:10,920 --> 00:29:12,320 Speaker 1: going to? Like? How am I going to do this? 447 00:29:12,560 --> 00:29:15,360 Speaker 1: I don't know anything? And how did you? How did 448 00:29:15,440 --> 00:29:20,480 Speaker 1: you navigate this new world and this path to becoming 449 00:29:21,560 --> 00:29:24,640 Speaker 1: you know, a career in fashion and a designer, and 450 00:29:24,840 --> 00:29:28,160 Speaker 1: suddenly you have to adjust how did you do that? 451 00:29:28,360 --> 00:29:31,120 Speaker 1: A lot of it, I guess was luck and meeting 452 00:29:31,200 --> 00:29:35,080 Speaker 1: the right people. But it must have been something deep 453 00:29:35,160 --> 00:29:38,160 Speaker 1: inside you as well. I think a lot of it 454 00:29:38,440 --> 00:29:41,160 Speaker 1: if I would bring it down. You know, I think 455 00:29:41,240 --> 00:29:43,640 Speaker 1: that I do believe in God. I do believe that 456 00:29:43,680 --> 00:29:46,680 Speaker 1: God helps those who help themselves. You know, I've I've 457 00:29:46,760 --> 00:29:49,160 Speaker 1: seen I see a lot of miracles in my story. 458 00:29:50,080 --> 00:29:53,960 Speaker 1: Um But there were so many moments where I could 459 00:29:54,000 --> 00:29:56,760 Speaker 1: have given up, and I think many people would have 460 00:29:57,040 --> 00:30:00,719 Speaker 1: and I just couldn't because it was successful. Those were 461 00:30:00,760 --> 00:30:04,400 Speaker 1: my That's how it felt. Either I was dying or 462 00:30:04,480 --> 00:30:07,160 Speaker 1: I was winning one of the two. And so when 463 00:30:07,560 --> 00:30:12,960 Speaker 1: the you know, the stakes are that high. Um, So, 464 00:30:13,040 --> 00:30:15,600 Speaker 1: I think that's number one. That I was so determined 465 00:30:15,760 --> 00:30:19,120 Speaker 1: and so stubborn and so focused, and I'm a planner 466 00:30:19,200 --> 00:30:22,880 Speaker 1: by nature. It took me eleven years to eleven years, 467 00:30:23,840 --> 00:30:28,360 Speaker 1: and you know, I educated myself. I read literature, I 468 00:30:28,840 --> 00:30:32,480 Speaker 1: read philosophers and history and everything that I could get 469 00:30:32,520 --> 00:30:35,600 Speaker 1: my hands on to at least get some grasp of 470 00:30:35,680 --> 00:30:38,640 Speaker 1: the outside world. I mean, to me, books saved my life. 471 00:30:39,560 --> 00:30:42,240 Speaker 1: You go back to Monsey, or you did for six 472 00:30:42,400 --> 00:30:47,640 Speaker 1: years after you left, and what was it like navigating 473 00:30:47,760 --> 00:30:51,080 Speaker 1: those two worlds? Was it like stepping back in time? 474 00:30:51,200 --> 00:30:57,160 Speaker 1: Once again, I really felt like really like a time traveler, 475 00:30:57,400 --> 00:30:59,040 Speaker 1: you know, like you see all these TV shows now 476 00:30:59,120 --> 00:31:01,760 Speaker 1: where they pop into one century and public. That's what 477 00:31:01,880 --> 00:31:04,440 Speaker 1: it was like. I kept my schatel in my glove 478 00:31:04,480 --> 00:31:07,160 Speaker 1: compartment so I would wink to people who might not 479 00:31:07,280 --> 00:31:10,720 Speaker 1: be familiar what a shadel is. A shade is a wig. 480 00:31:11,040 --> 00:31:12,760 Speaker 1: And by the way, you know, right before I left 481 00:31:12,840 --> 00:31:17,480 Speaker 1: my community, right after Hurricane Sandy, there were posters put 482 00:31:17,560 --> 00:31:24,920 Speaker 1: all of Muncy stating Hurricane Sandy occurred because women's wigs 483 00:31:25,080 --> 00:31:29,560 Speaker 1: were too long, and so it was our fault that 484 00:31:29,720 --> 00:31:33,640 Speaker 1: hurricane Hurricane Sandy happened because women's wigs were too long. 485 00:31:33,760 --> 00:31:39,040 Speaker 1: I'm sure you didn't know that, now you do after 486 00:31:39,160 --> 00:31:42,440 Speaker 1: the break the price Julius had to pay for leaving 487 00:31:42,640 --> 00:31:58,320 Speaker 1: her Hasidic community, I'm curious about your relationship with your children, 488 00:31:58,440 --> 00:32:02,280 Speaker 1: but also with the rest of your family, your seven siblings, 489 00:32:02,400 --> 00:32:09,000 Speaker 1: et cetera. What is that like today? It's atle sad uh. 490 00:32:10,160 --> 00:32:15,560 Speaker 1: You know, my extended family, my siblings, my parents don't 491 00:32:15,600 --> 00:32:22,920 Speaker 1: speak to me. Um. And again this should not make 492 00:32:22,960 --> 00:32:29,040 Speaker 1: anyone think badly of them, because it's not them. It's 493 00:32:29,120 --> 00:32:32,680 Speaker 1: what they think God wants. It's the laws. It's the 494 00:32:32,920 --> 00:32:36,560 Speaker 1: rules themselves that prevent my family from speaking to me, 495 00:32:36,680 --> 00:32:39,040 Speaker 1: because what they're taught is that the way that I 496 00:32:39,160 --> 00:32:42,200 Speaker 1: live my life is the embodiment of evil. I married 497 00:32:42,240 --> 00:32:47,760 Speaker 1: ann Ju, I keep Kosha, I dressed like I dressed. 498 00:32:48,080 --> 00:32:53,440 Speaker 1: I'm extremely vowered basing, I talk about sexuality publicly. I 499 00:32:53,760 --> 00:32:57,160 Speaker 1: support my daughter who is a bisexual. I am just 500 00:32:57,560 --> 00:33:02,480 Speaker 1: evil through and through, and so I understand why they 501 00:33:02,520 --> 00:33:05,720 Speaker 1: don't speak to me because in their minds, I'm a 502 00:33:05,920 --> 00:33:10,360 Speaker 1: terrible influence in one of their children could become irreligious 503 00:33:10,600 --> 00:33:15,880 Speaker 1: or God did start asking questions uncomfortable questions, and that's 504 00:33:15,960 --> 00:33:20,080 Speaker 1: dangerous because I'm even more dangerous than most people are 505 00:33:20,320 --> 00:33:25,520 Speaker 1: worth the community. Because I succeeded. I didn't fail. I 506 00:33:25,600 --> 00:33:29,440 Speaker 1: didn't become a drug addict that incommits suicide. You know, 507 00:33:29,800 --> 00:33:34,120 Speaker 1: I'm I succeeded. And the story back there is that 508 00:33:34,200 --> 00:33:36,720 Speaker 1: if you leave, you won't succeed, you will become a 509 00:33:36,800 --> 00:33:40,600 Speaker 1: drug addict, or you will kill yourself. Because the really 510 00:33:40,760 --> 00:33:43,560 Speaker 1: the reality is you're not You're not equipped to handle 511 00:33:43,600 --> 00:33:46,520 Speaker 1: the outside world. You are thrown into the twenty one 512 00:33:46,680 --> 00:33:50,760 Speaker 1: century and there are a lot of mental and emotional 513 00:33:51,160 --> 00:33:58,160 Speaker 1: and psychological and just you know, practical difficulties that occur 514 00:33:58,920 --> 00:34:02,880 Speaker 1: with such a fast and sharp shift in the way 515 00:34:02,920 --> 00:34:05,520 Speaker 1: that you live your life. And so most people do 516 00:34:05,720 --> 00:34:10,040 Speaker 1: have a difficult time surviving it. They just can't. Uh So, 517 00:34:11,520 --> 00:34:17,080 Speaker 1: you know, it's it's an extraordinarily almost impossible thing to do. 518 00:34:18,160 --> 00:34:22,240 Speaker 1: Um And I understand why. To my family, I'm dangerous. 519 00:34:22,320 --> 00:34:27,600 Speaker 1: I'm just dangerous. I'm dangerous. And you know, my children, 520 00:34:28,239 --> 00:34:31,959 Speaker 1: I'm so lucky because most women like me who leave 521 00:34:32,480 --> 00:34:36,080 Speaker 1: lose their children. I'm one of the few people I 522 00:34:36,200 --> 00:34:38,680 Speaker 1: know who not only did I not lose my children, 523 00:34:38,760 --> 00:34:42,640 Speaker 1: my children came with me. That's a big big deal 524 00:34:43,200 --> 00:34:46,600 Speaker 1: because you were sort of between two worlds and raised 525 00:34:46,640 --> 00:34:50,200 Speaker 1: a certain way, Julia, did that take a toll on 526 00:34:50,320 --> 00:34:56,120 Speaker 1: the children because as you were adjusting to this new life, Um, 527 00:34:56,800 --> 00:34:59,680 Speaker 1: that must have been a bit confusing for them, And 528 00:34:59,719 --> 00:35:03,880 Speaker 1: I know your eldest daughter did struggle. I think it 529 00:35:04,040 --> 00:35:07,080 Speaker 1: was not just confusing. I think it was the most disorienting, 530 00:35:07,280 --> 00:35:10,200 Speaker 1: frightening thing for them. Think about it. Here's a woman 531 00:35:10,440 --> 00:35:14,080 Speaker 1: who taught them their whole lives to do X that 532 00:35:14,280 --> 00:35:16,160 Speaker 1: this is the path to goodness, that this is the 533 00:35:16,280 --> 00:35:19,279 Speaker 1: only life I remember giving my daughter by such a 534 00:35:19,360 --> 00:35:22,160 Speaker 1: hard time because she was wearing her shade all in 535 00:35:22,239 --> 00:35:24,440 Speaker 1: a way where you could see a little bit of 536 00:35:24,600 --> 00:35:27,719 Speaker 1: her hair long, and I gave her a hard time 537 00:35:28,560 --> 00:35:31,399 Speaker 1: because that's not to see it. How old were your 538 00:35:31,480 --> 00:35:35,680 Speaker 1: kids when you left? So was the eldest. She was 539 00:35:35,800 --> 00:35:38,239 Speaker 1: nineteen at the time. She's the one that struggled the 540 00:35:38,320 --> 00:35:41,000 Speaker 1: most because she was brought up to be the most religious. 541 00:35:41,760 --> 00:35:44,720 Speaker 1: Shlomo didn't understand what I was doing, but he didn't 542 00:35:44,840 --> 00:35:47,080 Speaker 1: really care in the sense that he was like, if 543 00:35:47,120 --> 00:35:51,040 Speaker 1: it makes my mother, I'm happy. And he wasn't happy either. 544 00:35:51,960 --> 00:35:54,879 Speaker 1: He got a lot of grief because he was brought 545 00:35:54,960 --> 00:35:58,120 Speaker 1: up in Atlanta and that wasn't totally enough, and so 546 00:35:59,360 --> 00:36:03,279 Speaker 1: he kind of was questioning himself. So he didn't really 547 00:36:03,320 --> 00:36:06,400 Speaker 1: have such a big issue that Miriam was just jumping 548 00:36:06,480 --> 00:36:08,560 Speaker 1: up and down, and she was just like, let's get 549 00:36:08,600 --> 00:36:11,879 Speaker 1: at it. When are we leaving? So it was really 550 00:36:12,040 --> 00:36:16,480 Speaker 1: much Shova that struggled, especially that first year. I kind 551 00:36:16,520 --> 00:36:20,120 Speaker 1: of really killed our relationship. But now, I mean, you know, 552 00:36:20,239 --> 00:36:23,359 Speaker 1: she has a great life. She thanks me literally at 553 00:36:23,440 --> 00:36:26,320 Speaker 1: least once a week and says thank you Eva for 554 00:36:26,440 --> 00:36:30,000 Speaker 1: taking us out, So you know, slowly but surely with 555 00:36:30,080 --> 00:36:33,560 Speaker 1: a lot of patients. Um, and a lot of stuff 556 00:36:33,560 --> 00:36:36,800 Speaker 1: are is you know, we made it. We made it. 557 00:36:38,360 --> 00:36:41,880 Speaker 1: And your husband ex husband still lives in the community. 558 00:36:42,480 --> 00:36:47,560 Speaker 1: And what is your relief? Know? Does not he moved? Well? 559 00:36:47,640 --> 00:36:51,359 Speaker 1: Tell me about her ex husband. He's awesome. First of all, 560 00:36:51,600 --> 00:36:54,000 Speaker 1: he's such a good man. That's why I just see 561 00:36:54,080 --> 00:36:57,000 Speaker 1: in my book in all, in the television show, I 562 00:36:57,120 --> 00:37:00,040 Speaker 1: always say that he was as much a victor in 563 00:37:00,120 --> 00:37:02,480 Speaker 1: his eye was he was told that that was his 564 00:37:02,760 --> 00:37:06,880 Speaker 1: role as my husband, to you know, control me and 565 00:37:07,000 --> 00:37:10,080 Speaker 1: to enforce the laws, because why is his children suffer? 566 00:37:10,200 --> 00:37:13,440 Speaker 1: His family would suffer, the community would suffer. He's a 567 00:37:13,520 --> 00:37:15,879 Speaker 1: good person and I never had an issue with him. 568 00:37:16,120 --> 00:37:20,160 Speaker 1: And Um, what's really beautiful is that you know, through 569 00:37:20,200 --> 00:37:22,760 Speaker 1: all the difficulty that I'm facing now, he and his wife, 570 00:37:23,320 --> 00:37:25,839 Speaker 1: his new wife, who is the loveliest human being, they 571 00:37:25,920 --> 00:37:29,200 Speaker 1: called me almost every day to check in me, to 572 00:37:29,320 --> 00:37:31,920 Speaker 1: ask me how I'm doing, to just give me support. 573 00:37:32,640 --> 00:37:35,800 Speaker 1: You know, life has such a strange way of showing 574 00:37:35,840 --> 00:37:39,400 Speaker 1: you who you know, how people are in their true essence, 575 00:37:39,960 --> 00:37:42,200 Speaker 1: And you know, I am so grateful to both of them. 576 00:37:42,760 --> 00:37:45,480 Speaker 1: He has left Muncie. He now lives in te neck, 577 00:37:45,520 --> 00:37:49,480 Speaker 1: New Jersey with his non shape of wearing college graduate 578 00:37:49,560 --> 00:37:52,520 Speaker 1: wife who has an amazing profession, who has a very 579 00:37:52,600 --> 00:37:56,640 Speaker 1: successful business. He told a list, but it's not even 580 00:37:57,120 --> 00:38:01,840 Speaker 1: remotely fundamentalists. He's not then remotely black hats, a modern 581 00:38:01,920 --> 00:38:04,279 Speaker 1: Orthodox Jew. He's got TVs in his house, he goes 582 00:38:04,360 --> 00:38:07,320 Speaker 1: to Broadway shows. He wants my kids to go to college. 583 00:38:07,640 --> 00:38:12,080 Speaker 1: He accepts my daughter's sexuality. He is literally it took 584 00:38:12,120 --> 00:38:16,000 Speaker 1: me eight years, but he's out too. Are other Hasidic women. 585 00:38:16,120 --> 00:38:20,000 Speaker 1: Julia is so cloistered and shut off from the real world. 586 00:38:21,160 --> 00:38:27,000 Speaker 1: They can't see your life now and wouldn't be inspired 587 00:38:27,200 --> 00:38:31,239 Speaker 1: by you because they don't really know. They're kept in 588 00:38:31,320 --> 00:38:36,440 Speaker 1: the dark. Look, you know as well as I do, unfortunately, 589 00:38:37,239 --> 00:38:39,800 Speaker 1: that there's two groups of women. There are the women 590 00:38:40,520 --> 00:38:44,680 Speaker 1: who want more, who struggle for more, who fight for more. 591 00:38:45,400 --> 00:38:48,560 Speaker 1: I think the suffragettes. Think about the women who marched 592 00:38:48,680 --> 00:38:52,680 Speaker 1: for equal rights. Think about why in this country the 593 00:38:52,760 --> 00:38:55,919 Speaker 1: equal rights men was never passed. Who was the person 594 00:38:56,080 --> 00:38:59,760 Speaker 1: who prevented that? I think you know it was philoslostly 595 00:39:00,080 --> 00:39:06,480 Speaker 1: lastly right, it was a woman. So unfortunately, you have 596 00:39:06,719 --> 00:39:10,319 Speaker 1: the women who march, who demand change, who want better 597 00:39:10,440 --> 00:39:13,000 Speaker 1: for their daughters. And then you have the women who 598 00:39:13,160 --> 00:39:17,319 Speaker 1: defend the very system that imprisons them. And it isn't 599 00:39:17,360 --> 00:39:21,359 Speaker 1: because they're bad or evil or wrong. It's because they 600 00:39:21,600 --> 00:39:25,680 Speaker 1: truly believe in their innermost hearts that that's what God wants. 601 00:39:26,080 --> 00:39:29,759 Speaker 1: That's what's genius about any of these philosophies or religions. 602 00:39:30,000 --> 00:39:32,320 Speaker 1: And it's nothing to do with Judaism. You see it 603 00:39:32,320 --> 00:39:37,719 Speaker 1: in fundamentalist Christianity, fundamentalist Islam, and fundamentalist Hinduism. Wherever there 604 00:39:37,840 --> 00:39:40,279 Speaker 1: is rules. Uh, you know, I read the other day 605 00:39:40,360 --> 00:39:43,880 Speaker 1: that in Russia they they passed a law that a 606 00:39:44,080 --> 00:39:49,279 Speaker 1: husband can beat his wife and it's totally illegal as 607 00:39:49,360 --> 00:39:51,800 Speaker 1: long as it doesn't leave marks on her body. And 608 00:39:52,120 --> 00:39:55,440 Speaker 1: when asked why that law was okay, Oh, because it's 609 00:39:55,480 --> 00:39:59,880 Speaker 1: the tradition of the Greek Orthodox trich So the club 610 00:40:00,000 --> 00:40:04,120 Speaker 1: harness of all of these isms is that they convince 611 00:40:04,400 --> 00:40:08,520 Speaker 1: a woman herself that this is what God wants, and 612 00:40:08,640 --> 00:40:13,160 Speaker 1: so she defends the very system that imprisons her because 613 00:40:13,320 --> 00:40:16,960 Speaker 1: she thinks it's the truth and the right way to 614 00:40:17,160 --> 00:40:21,560 Speaker 1: live it. You have faced so many challenges and persevere, 615 00:40:21,680 --> 00:40:26,400 Speaker 1: Julia from the get go, and and obviously you've had 616 00:40:26,480 --> 00:40:28,320 Speaker 1: to work very hard to get where you are in 617 00:40:28,360 --> 00:40:32,440 Speaker 1: the fashion industry, and here you now hit another bump 618 00:40:32,520 --> 00:40:36,320 Speaker 1: in the road, another obstacle, being fired as CEO and 619 00:40:36,480 --> 00:40:40,320 Speaker 1: co founder of Elite World Group. So how are you 620 00:40:40,480 --> 00:40:45,840 Speaker 1: dealing with kind of this setback um and moving forward? 621 00:40:46,040 --> 00:40:49,719 Speaker 1: And what do you think is the message you hope 622 00:40:49,800 --> 00:40:55,400 Speaker 1: people take away from your book? I love those questions. 623 00:40:55,440 --> 00:40:58,239 Speaker 1: Those are too great questions. To the first one, what 624 00:40:58,320 --> 00:41:05,360 Speaker 1: I would say is, I've tried to eradicate all of 625 00:41:05,600 --> 00:41:12,840 Speaker 1: the inferiority uh complex feelings that I have when it 626 00:41:12,880 --> 00:41:16,879 Speaker 1: comes to me right. And I thought, you know, after 627 00:41:17,000 --> 00:41:20,040 Speaker 1: I became creative director of Laperle and then co owner 628 00:41:20,120 --> 00:41:23,440 Speaker 1: of CEO of Elite World Group and all of this stuff, 629 00:41:24,280 --> 00:41:30,480 Speaker 1: that it would be I make right, like I am 630 00:41:30,560 --> 00:41:33,520 Speaker 1: no longer afraid of men, I am no longer controlled 631 00:41:33,560 --> 00:41:36,160 Speaker 1: by men, I can no longer be abused by men. 632 00:41:37,040 --> 00:41:39,560 Speaker 1: And then when all of this happened, I realized I'm 633 00:41:39,600 --> 00:41:44,000 Speaker 1: not there yet. I still have that inferiority complex. I 634 00:41:44,120 --> 00:41:46,959 Speaker 1: still have somewhere in my head where a man knows best. 635 00:41:47,520 --> 00:41:52,240 Speaker 1: I still have a ways to go before I eradicate 636 00:41:53,440 --> 00:41:59,120 Speaker 1: those feelings of male superiority. And I think what I learned. 637 00:41:59,320 --> 00:42:01,600 Speaker 1: Is that going to be a work in progress for 638 00:42:01,680 --> 00:42:04,000 Speaker 1: the rest of my life. I'm going to have to 639 00:42:04,280 --> 00:42:08,479 Speaker 1: every day remind myself that a man is not better 640 00:42:08,560 --> 00:42:11,160 Speaker 1: than me. Every day remind myself that you have to 641 00:42:11,280 --> 00:42:15,160 Speaker 1: fight for your freedom. Um, I don't know what you know. 642 00:42:15,719 --> 00:42:17,840 Speaker 1: The future will bring, and I'm sure there will be 643 00:42:18,280 --> 00:42:21,080 Speaker 1: Once I overcome this obstacle, I'm sure it won't be 644 00:42:21,239 --> 00:42:23,920 Speaker 1: the last one. You know. The other problem is that 645 00:42:24,040 --> 00:42:27,960 Speaker 1: I'm I always. I walk into industries and I create change, 646 00:42:28,600 --> 00:42:31,440 Speaker 1: and arbiters have change are not very popular people because 647 00:42:31,520 --> 00:42:35,280 Speaker 1: they're knocking down the status quo and you know, taking 648 00:42:35,360 --> 00:42:38,440 Speaker 1: power away from those people who had it. So I 649 00:42:38,560 --> 00:42:42,080 Speaker 1: kind of make enemies wherever I go, and you know, 650 00:42:42,640 --> 00:42:46,520 Speaker 1: and I attacked fundamentalism, and fundamentalism attacks back, like I 651 00:42:47,520 --> 00:42:52,320 Speaker 1: literally constantly put myself. Sometimes I say to myself, just stop, 652 00:42:52,440 --> 00:42:55,000 Speaker 1: Like you could live such a comfortable, easy life. Why 653 00:42:55,200 --> 00:42:57,959 Speaker 1: why are you torturing yourself? Because I want to change 654 00:42:58,000 --> 00:43:00,040 Speaker 1: the world, because I want there to be a o 655 00:43:00,120 --> 00:43:02,960 Speaker 1: the world, because I believe in the goodness of mankind, 656 00:43:03,520 --> 00:43:06,920 Speaker 1: because I think women are extraordinary and that we're capable 657 00:43:06,960 --> 00:43:09,440 Speaker 1: of anything we set our minds to, and That is 658 00:43:09,480 --> 00:43:12,800 Speaker 1: the purpose of my book. If I could do it uneducated, 659 00:43:13,000 --> 00:43:16,080 Speaker 1: knowing no one coming from the eighteenth century to now 660 00:43:16,520 --> 00:43:19,640 Speaker 1: in the eight years, at forty two years of age, 661 00:43:20,160 --> 00:43:23,400 Speaker 1: anyone can do it. Anyone can do it at any age. 662 00:43:23,880 --> 00:43:27,920 Speaker 1: And most of the impediments we have are in our minds. 663 00:43:28,320 --> 00:43:32,640 Speaker 1: And the minute we give ourselves permission to question, permission 664 00:43:32,719 --> 00:43:35,520 Speaker 1: to say this is not okay, this is not the 665 00:43:35,640 --> 00:43:38,200 Speaker 1: life I want, this is not who I am. I'm 666 00:43:38,239 --> 00:43:41,120 Speaker 1: going to fight for what I want. The minute we 667 00:43:41,200 --> 00:43:44,000 Speaker 1: give ourselves permission to do that is the minute that 668 00:43:44,120 --> 00:43:47,440 Speaker 1: we start on the path to success. You know, when 669 00:43:47,480 --> 00:43:50,719 Speaker 1: my book came out, I had letters, well, I had 670 00:43:50,960 --> 00:43:54,080 Speaker 1: tens of thousands of messages from people from my community, 671 00:43:54,560 --> 00:43:58,280 Speaker 1: from the Muslim community, from communities all over the world, 672 00:43:59,120 --> 00:44:02,920 Speaker 1: uh telling their stories and how the show had changed 673 00:44:03,120 --> 00:44:05,960 Speaker 1: their life. I had two women tell me that they 674 00:44:06,360 --> 00:44:09,480 Speaker 1: were planning on committing suicide, one of them on the 675 00:44:09,600 --> 00:44:13,440 Speaker 1: day that You'll launched, and chose to live life because 676 00:44:13,480 --> 00:44:17,120 Speaker 1: they've seen the show. And the show is just a snippet, 677 00:44:17,320 --> 00:44:21,280 Speaker 1: it's a hint of what my past was. The book 678 00:44:21,480 --> 00:44:28,680 Speaker 1: is the whole, messy, convoluted, complex, disastrous story, and I 679 00:44:28,760 --> 00:44:31,520 Speaker 1: think if people see that the mistakes are part of 680 00:44:31,600 --> 00:44:35,080 Speaker 1: the journey. The trauma is part of the journey. Not 681 00:44:35,360 --> 00:44:39,480 Speaker 1: knowing something is good for you. Learning new things and 682 00:44:39,560 --> 00:44:44,320 Speaker 1: becoming unafraid of the unknown is the strongest tool you 683 00:44:44,440 --> 00:44:47,400 Speaker 1: could put in your hands, because that's the only way 684 00:44:47,440 --> 00:44:51,239 Speaker 1: you're going to grow and change. And so that's what 685 00:44:51,360 --> 00:44:54,399 Speaker 1: I hope occurs when people read this book. I want 686 00:44:54,440 --> 00:44:59,239 Speaker 1: them to get up and start their stories. A big 687 00:44:59,320 --> 00:45:01,320 Speaker 1: thank you, did you your heart who chatted with me 688 00:45:01,480 --> 00:45:05,439 Speaker 1: in between filming the second season of My Unorthodox Life. 689 00:45:06,000 --> 00:45:08,799 Speaker 1: Her new book is called Brazen, and it's out now. 690 00:45:13,760 --> 00:45:15,920 Speaker 1: Next Question with Katie Kurik is a production of I 691 00:45:16,120 --> 00:45:20,000 Speaker 1: Heart Media and Katie Couric Media. The executive producers Army, 692 00:45:20,239 --> 00:45:24,720 Speaker 1: Katie Couric, and Courtney Litz. The supervising producer is Lauren Hansen. 693 00:45:25,040 --> 00:45:29,600 Speaker 1: Associate producers Derek Clements and Adriana Fasio. The show is 694 00:45:29,800 --> 00:45:33,520 Speaker 1: edited and mixed by Derrick Clements. For more information about 695 00:45:33,560 --> 00:45:36,480 Speaker 1: today's episode, or to sign up for my morning newsletter, 696 00:45:36,560 --> 00:45:39,360 Speaker 1: wake Up Call, go to Katie Currek dot com. You 697 00:45:39,440 --> 00:45:42,040 Speaker 1: can also find me at Katie Curic on Instagram and 698 00:45:42,280 --> 00:45:45,600 Speaker 1: all my social media channels. For more podcasts, from I 699 00:45:45,800 --> 00:45:49,560 Speaker 1: heart Radio, visit the I heart Radio app, Apple podcast, 700 00:45:49,960 --> 00:45:52,120 Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.