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Speaker 1: Hey, this is any and Samantha and record of stuff

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Speaker 1: I've never told your production of I Heart Radio. So Samantha,

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Speaker 1: what are your what are your thoughts on sharks? You know,

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Speaker 1: as I've talked about, I have many a weird phobias,

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Speaker 1: and I guess I did not realize how many that

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Speaker 1: I had until people started asking me to do things,

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Speaker 1: or if I was interested in things. And then when

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Speaker 1: people would suggest things, I'm like, oh, actually, I'm scared

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Speaker 1: of that. And sharks and creatures in the sea scare me.

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Speaker 1: One of those things like if I can't see the bottom,

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Speaker 1: I can't. I can't. If I can't see in the water,

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Speaker 1: hell no, hell no. I don't know if it's because

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Speaker 1: of the many tales that I've heard of people losing

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Speaker 1: a limb and or be like bitten on or chewed

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Speaker 1: on a little bit or stung um, all of those

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Speaker 1: things have scared me pretty darn well, so that I

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Speaker 1: don't like going too deep into the ocean. I don't

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Speaker 1: want to scuba. I don't want to do any of

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Speaker 1: those things. The one time I went to Puerto Rico

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Speaker 1: and all we did was like, you know, we were

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Speaker 1: not that far out, but they were like, here's the

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Speaker 1: scuba you need to do, and what I figured out

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Speaker 1: what was around me. I immediately got out. I was like,

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Speaker 1: oh my god, I can see these things. Now I

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Speaker 1: have to leave. So all that to say, yeah, sharks

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Speaker 1: scare me. I absolutely believe, like all the amazing people

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Speaker 1: who do great things, and I love the little videos

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Speaker 1: of people making friends. That's so adorable, but hell no,

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Speaker 1: hell no, they made me panic. And then like when

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Speaker 1: I see the videos of people who are doing the

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Speaker 1: little rafting or the canoeing or whatever it is that

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Speaker 1: they're doing out there, and then there's a big creature

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Speaker 1: underneath them, I'm like, that makes my heart skip a

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Speaker 1: beat in a bad way. Right, So I have a

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Speaker 1: lot of feelings on it. Yes, yeah, I irrational. I

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Speaker 1: suspected you might. I suspected you might. I I'm actually

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Speaker 1: also afraid of sharks. But I also love sharks. I

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Speaker 1: like many people, and I know to anyone who's listening

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Speaker 1: who works with sharks, this is going to really bother you.

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Speaker 1: But I love the movie Draws and I would watch

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Speaker 1: it every summer because I'm a masochistic, weird child. Uh.

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Speaker 1: And then I would be afraid. I would be afraid

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Speaker 1: every time I went into the water. I had a

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Speaker 1: friend who had like a story of being she saw

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Speaker 1: shadow in a pool and thought it was a shark.

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Speaker 1: I would just always be on edge, and I have

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Speaker 1: seen some sharks while swimming. Um. I when I was

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Speaker 1: scuba diving in Australia, I turned around and there was

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Speaker 1: a big old griray nurse shark right there, and I

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Speaker 1: just probs, like to your extraal rules. Although luckily for me,

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Speaker 1: I had done a report on gray nurse sharks in

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Speaker 1: high school because I also think that sharks shure misunders,

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Speaker 1: but gray nurse sharks don't. They were almost extinct if

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Speaker 1: I'm remembering quickly, or they were definitely endangered because they

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Speaker 1: look me they look like white great white sharks, but

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Speaker 1: they actually I don't think they can even bite, Like

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Speaker 1: their mouths don't open enough um to really do any

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Speaker 1: damage to humans. So it was like this really tragic

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Speaker 1: thing that happened. So luckily I was like, I'm pretty

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Speaker 1: sure that's a great nurse shark. I'm definitely not going

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Speaker 1: to engage and I hope it just goes away, but

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Speaker 1: I'm pretty sure it's a great great nurse shark. I

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Speaker 1: have had a couple of close encounters with sharks. I'm

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Speaker 1: thinking of at least three off the top of my

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Speaker 1: head that were pretty scary, but I won't go into

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Speaker 1: them because we were trying not to fear monker about sharks. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: don't tell me these stories. Oh no, you have to

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Speaker 1: hear it. I'm it all worked out. So before we

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Speaker 1: get into this, we did want to put a quick

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Speaker 1: trigger warning. We're gonna be talking about some sexual harassment

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Speaker 1: and sexual assaults and kind of just general a keyness

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Speaker 1: around all of that. Um, we're not gonna get into

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Speaker 1: into anything too specific, but put that right at the top.

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Speaker 1: But this was an old request from a listener, Vicky,

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Speaker 1: and I hope you're still listening, Vickie. I believe those

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Speaker 1: requests from several several years ago. We will get to

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Speaker 1: all your requests. Sometimes it takes. And should we be

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Speaker 1: talking about sharks and women in shark science during Shark Week? No,

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Speaker 1: because it is a holiday topic. And here's why. I

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Speaker 1: recently just rewatched the movie Jaws. The Revenge had a

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Speaker 1: whole like planned as like they all they did a

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Speaker 1: little like a streaming matinee of Jaws. I was very

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Speaker 1: surprised Yes, Yes, I actually for and it was a

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Speaker 1: Christmas movie at this point. It was just kind of

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Speaker 1: a pleasant, well Christmas movie and very loose Christmas. And

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Speaker 1: he's also called Jaws for the Revenge from nineteen and

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Speaker 1: if you all on me, here's a brief synopsis. It

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Speaker 1: is a sequel to Jaws Too, ignoring what happens in

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Speaker 1: Jaws three D, and it centers primarily on Ellen Brody

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Speaker 1: played by Lorraine Gray. Her husband, Martin Brodie, had recently

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Speaker 1: died of a heart attack, and she loses her son

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Speaker 1: and a shark attack at the beginning of the movie.

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Speaker 1: Um and the actor who plays him now owns a

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Speaker 1: restaurant in Atlanta. This walking distance from me and Yes,

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Speaker 1: takes place at Christmas. There's a whole thing where there's

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Speaker 1: a Christmas carol playing. Winter Sun dies and if they

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Speaker 1: hadn't been singing, they might have heard his cries for help.

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Speaker 1: That blue moral of the story. Don't sing Christmas carols,

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Speaker 1: they go. I mean, we've been talking about that for

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Speaker 1: a while, stuff seeing Christmas songs if it's not near Christmas,

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Speaker 1: but overall, just don't see Christmas. If it's one thing

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Speaker 1: I learned from Jaws. The revenge, so Ellen becomes convinced

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Speaker 1: that this shrike wants revenge on her family after the

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Speaker 1: past two outcomes of sharks coming in contact with her

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Speaker 1: family ending up in those sharks dying. The tagline of

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Speaker 1: the film is this time it's personal. Her remaining son, Michael,

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Speaker 1: who is a marine biologist, convinces her to come down

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Speaker 1: to the Bahamas after assuring her there are and have

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Speaker 1: never been sharks in the waters down there never the

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Speaker 1: pilot Hogi played by Michael Kane, immediately shows interest in Ellen,

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Speaker 1: an interest that is reciprocated and well, when you know what,

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Speaker 1: A shark shows up when Michael is conducting research and

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Speaker 1: seems to only be interested in attacking him. M Michael

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Speaker 1: doesn't tell his mother, who was having nightmares flashbox and

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Speaker 1: seemingly premonitions about a shark trying to kill her family.

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Speaker 1: After an attempted shark attack on her granddaughter Ellen, it

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Speaker 1: takes a boat and goes out to confront the shark.

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Speaker 1: Michael admits what has been going on. When they catch

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Speaker 1: up via plane, Michael admits what has been going on

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Speaker 1: with the shark with he and some colleagues, including Hogi.

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Speaker 1: They catch up with her um they confront the shark,

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Speaker 1: and with several fake out deaths of the human, of

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Speaker 1: the shark, of some inexplicable dancing, and an explosion, Ellen

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Speaker 1: impales the shark um while seeing visions of her family

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Speaker 1: and other sharks, many she'd never seen, never seen before,

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Speaker 1: and yes, in the edited version, this somehow causes an explosion. Uh,

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Speaker 1: there's more than one ending to this movie. Now. If

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Speaker 1: you're listening to this and you're thinking that sounds kind

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Speaker 1: of bizarre, it is. It was not well reviewed, it

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Speaker 1: was widely panned. It was the last of the Jaw

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Speaker 1: series to date. But I don't think you have some

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Speaker 1: interesting things in there. Um, you've got a whole like

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Speaker 1: women's intuition um with Ellen and this trauma and like

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Speaker 1: stantly being dismissed. Admittedly, this shark premonitions a little different

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Speaker 1: than what we're normally talking about. But she was right.

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Speaker 1: She was right. And then I always love this line.

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Speaker 1: Apparently Michael Caine has never seen this movie, and he

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Speaker 1: has a quote where he said, I've never seen it.

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Speaker 1: I hear it's quite why all accounts, it's quite terrible.

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Speaker 1: But I have seen the house at bought and it's

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Speaker 1: lovely and then you have this whole side plot with

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Speaker 1: older widowed women dating Um and Michael being weird about it.

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Speaker 1: UM like it's kind of strange. But also Michael Caine's

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Speaker 1: character watching it, because this was my second viewing of

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Speaker 1: this film, he does seem to have a little bit

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Speaker 1: of suspicious things going on in his life. But she

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Speaker 1: she knows what she's doing as well. She must to

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Speaker 1: be happy. Doesn't have problematic depictions of the bambas and

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Speaker 1: people that live there. Yes, but uh, this is It's

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Speaker 1: one of those movies where I I was watching it

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Speaker 1: and I sometimes you just don't expect all the Christmas

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Speaker 1: imagery in a movie about sharks. I know that bringing

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Speaker 1: up Jaws Yes, does not endear me to any sharks scientist,

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Speaker 1: though interestingly in Jaws Revenge there is some shark science happening.

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Speaker 1: And speaking of Yes, today, we wanted to talk about

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Speaker 1: some of the women who have done and are doing

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Speaker 1: amazing work in the field of sharks science, the real

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Speaker 1: non fixed about sharks science. A couple of stats before

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Speaker 1: we get into that. Despite the fact that modernly about

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Speaker 1: six graduate students in the US are women, the majority

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Speaker 1: of senior scientists in it are white men. Some articles

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Speaker 1: used the term the Petrie sharks for this specifically niche

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Speaker 1: when we're talking about today, study across scientific disciplines found

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Speaker 1: six of those surveyed experienced sexual harassment on the job

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Speaker 1: and twenty percent experienced sexual assaults and racism. A recent

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Speaker 1: BBC study found that seven seminal textbooks used to teach

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Speaker 1: science and medicine to undergraduates did not feature a single

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Speaker 1: black woman in them. So the situation isn't great for

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Speaker 1: sharks either. Over a hundred million sharks are lost a

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Speaker 1: year due to commercial industries. Yes, yes, so that's kind

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Speaker 1: of setting the stage where we're talking about um. And

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Speaker 1: one name that comes up a lot in this conversation

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Speaker 1: of women and sharks science is Dr Eugenie Clark. From childhood,

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Speaker 1: Clark had love sharks and showed an interest in taking

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Speaker 1: care of the oceans. She was born in New York

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Speaker 1: City on May four Her father was American and her

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Speaker 1: mother was Japanese. She often credited her mom and Japanese

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Speaker 1: culture for fostering her love for the sea and passion

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Speaker 1: for protecting it. As a kid, she enjoyed spending her

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Speaker 1: saturdays at the New York Aquarium watching the sharks and

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Speaker 1: wondering what it would be like to swim with them.

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Speaker 1: She became a marine biologist despite all of those sexisms

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Speaker 1: she encountered over her career from extremely early on. In

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Speaker 1: her words, she says, as a child, marine biologists explore

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Speaker 1: William Beebe was my hero, and I used to read

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Speaker 1: about him going down in the battle sphere and I

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Speaker 1: wanted to do that too. And I told my family

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Speaker 1: and they said, well, maybe you can take up typing,

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Speaker 1: get to be the secretary of William Babe or somebody

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Speaker 1: like him. And when she applied for graduate school at

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Speaker 1: Columbia University, a scientist told her quote, if you do finish,

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Speaker 1: you'll probably get married, have a bunch of kids, and

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Speaker 1: never do anything in science. After we've invested our time

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Speaker 1: and money in you, well, dyum, people are real supportive.

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Speaker 1: But of course that was not the case Boom. She

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Speaker 1: got her PhD from New York University in Platus and

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Speaker 1: swordfish reproduction, and through her work earned the nickname the

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Speaker 1: Shark Lady as a leader in the field. During her

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Speaker 1: time as a full Bright scholar, she explored the largely

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Speaker 1: unexplored waters of the Red Coast of Egypt and experience

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Speaker 1: which led her to write the best selling book Lady

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Speaker 1: with a Sphere in nineteen fifty three. She went on

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Speaker 1: to take a job at the Script's Institution of Oceanography

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Speaker 1: when diving was still a pretty risky thing to do.

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Speaker 1: Her hose maul functioned at one point and she nearly drowned.

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Speaker 1: And she still had to deal with institutional sexism. For instance,

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Speaker 1: at one time women were not allowed to do overnight

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Speaker 1: research trips archers to places like the Galapagos Islands. Clark

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Speaker 1: became the founding director of the Cape Hayes Marine Laboratory

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Speaker 1: or what is now the Mote Marine Laboratory and Aquarium

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Speaker 1: in nine and this is where she really develed and

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Speaker 1: fostered her love of sharks, and she really made it

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Speaker 1: her goal to change their image. She once said, people

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Speaker 1: generally thought that sharks are dumb eating machines. After some study,

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Speaker 1: have gotten a bad rap. So she conducted several experiments

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Speaker 1: to make her point, and in one she showed that

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Speaker 1: sharks could tap plates to obtain food, and they could

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Speaker 1: distinguish between two symbols on different plates. On top of this,

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Speaker 1: She also discovered the first known effective shark repellent called

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Speaker 1: Moses Soul. Just the case you're curious, it was made

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Speaker 1: out of flat fish secretions, so all right, let's go

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Speaker 1: get some. She debunked the myth that sharks had to

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Speaker 1: keep moving to breathe with her discovery of sleeping sharks

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Speaker 1: in undersea caves in Mexico. She was an outspoken public

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Speaker 1: speaker and defender of sharks. In fact, she jumped to

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Speaker 1: the defense of sharks after the movie Jabs came out.

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Speaker 1: In One of her most well known articles was the

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Speaker 1: piece in National Geographic called Sharks Magnificent and miss understood.

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Speaker 1: So she married five times, so she didn't get married,

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Speaker 1: but not to quit. She married five times and had

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Speaker 1: four children. Up until nineteen she was a teacher, and

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Speaker 1: she kept diving until her death at the age of

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Speaker 1: ninety two. In an interview, she said, quote, I figure,

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Speaker 1: if I'm in a wheelchair, they can will me to

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Speaker 1: the end of the boat and put on attack on

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Speaker 1: my back and dumped me over the side of the boat,

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Speaker 1: and I can go down to the bottom, and I

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Speaker 1: can study these fishes as long as I want. If

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Speaker 1: you want to learn more. So many books have been

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Speaker 1: written about her and by her, like children's books, science books,

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Speaker 1: all kinds of books. Amazing. I know, I know brief

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Speaker 1: Julia Child fact. For a time during World War Two,

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Speaker 1: Julia Child worked for an agency that collected an analyzed

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Speaker 1: intel for the Office of Strategic Services or the o

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Speaker 1: s S. The story is fascinating, but for our purposes

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Speaker 1: in this episode, at one point she was assigned to

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Speaker 1: the Emergency CE Rescue Equipment section and task with developing

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Speaker 1: a shark repellent. What they came up was was something

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Speaker 1: that smelled like dead sharks that showed quote slight repellents. Nice.

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Speaker 1: Then there's Melissa Christina Marquez, the mother of sharks pretty

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Speaker 1: reconsigned his author in public speaker, Marquez is outspoken when

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Speaker 1: it comes to the importance of understanding and protecting sharks.

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Speaker 1: She's also passionate about diversifying the field. Quote. I not

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Speaker 1: only focus on diverse sharks because they're over five hundred

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Speaker 1: different species, but I also want people to see the

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Speaker 1: diverse scientists that study them as well. Growing up watching

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Speaker 1: Shark Week, I never saw any female scientists, let alone

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Speaker 1: any female Latina scientists. So with the organization that I have,

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Speaker 1: I want people to see themselves in a lineup of

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Speaker 1: sharks scientists and be like, great, I can do this.

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Speaker 1: I work with really inspirational people who helped me be

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Speaker 1: better and to keep pushing through the racism, the sexism,

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Speaker 1: and the ageism. She was also attacked by a crocodile

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Speaker 1: while on a shark dive in all good and she

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Speaker 1: continues to dive. Also don't like crocodiles. So in Jillian

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Speaker 1: Morris break launch Sharks for Kids, with a goal of

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Speaker 1: providing free educational materials for teachers to use in classrooms.

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Speaker 1: The program also offers in Parson visits, tours, trips, and

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Speaker 1: shark tagging expeditions. So that's kind of cool. Yeah, oh,

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Speaker 1: I would have loved that as a kid. Oh, I

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Speaker 1: would have loved it. Um, So, now let's talk about

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Speaker 1: Minorities and Shark Sciences or ms M I s S.

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Speaker 1: This organization was founded in June after the hashtag black

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Speaker 1: in Nature in conjunction with the hashtag black Birders Week,

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Speaker 1: um We're trending, hosted by at black a f in stem.

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Speaker 1: It was founded by Yasmin Graham, Ammani Weber Schultz, Carl Jackson,

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Speaker 1: and Jada Lcock. From their website. We were founded by

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Speaker 1: four black female shark researchers. We strive to be seen

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Speaker 1: and take up space in a discipline which has been

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Speaker 1: largely inaccessible for women like us. We strive to be

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Speaker 1: positive role models for the next generation. We seek to

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Speaker 1: promote diversity and inclusion in shark science and encourage women

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Speaker 1: of color to push through barriers and contribute knowledge and

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Speaker 1: marine science. Finally, we hope to topple the system that

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Speaker 1: has historically excluded women like us and create an equitable

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Speaker 1: path to shark science. We believe diversity and scientists creates

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Speaker 1: diversity and thought, which leads to innovation. Rebert Schultz has

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Speaker 1: been open about how she is careful about who she

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Speaker 1: works with in the face of violent racist threat She's received. Quote,

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Speaker 1: I need to feel that whoever I'm working for or

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Speaker 1: with will have my back and stand up for me

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Speaker 1: in situations where it is not safe for me to

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Speaker 1: stand up for myself. H Yeah, so Graham said of

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Speaker 1: the founding, thinking about those slaves of Freedom Texas, if

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Speaker 1: they could know in the future that they were going

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Speaker 1: to be black people getting pH d s, and they're

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Speaker 1: going to be black people publishing papers and everything that

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Speaker 1: would blow their mind. But it doesn't just stop there.

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Speaker 1: The barriers should not exist at all, and the work

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Speaker 1: is not finished, and the founding of MISS is a

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Speaker 1: continuation of all the work that was started by those

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Speaker 1: that came before us UM. They also started Guild Guardians

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Speaker 1: to educate the public about sharks, skates, and rays, and

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Speaker 1: on top of that they have the Rising Ties Mentorship program.

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Speaker 1: So let's take a look at today, because while these

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Speaker 1: badass women have made great strides and against odds stack

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Speaker 1: to gives them, the field still has a lot of issues.

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Speaker 1: In August, Katherine McDonald wrote The Dark Side of being

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Speaker 1: a Female Shark Researcher. Being a scientist should not require

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Speaker 1: developing the grit to continually endure misogyny, discrimination, harassment, assault

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Speaker 1: or bullying, and in it, she described her experience with

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Speaker 1: all of the above from a young intern just starting

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Speaker 1: off in shark science. She also highlights how Discovery Channel's

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Speaker 1: annual event Shark Week, a week of content that draws

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Speaker 1: millions of viewers, very rarely features women are people of

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Speaker 1: color in leading roles. She described her first experience in

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Speaker 1: the field as an intern, being relegated into a sexualized

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Speaker 1: supporting role for the lead of male scientists on camera

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Speaker 1: and speaking at her first conference and being attacked so

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Speaker 1: aggressively by a male scientist that another man apologized for him,

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Speaker 1: saying he does that to a female duate student every

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Speaker 1: year or two. Okay, so that's okay, yeah, yeah, that

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Speaker 1: makes it better. Yeah. Um. This conference typically ended it

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Speaker 1: in an auction in which grad students, in revealing outfits,

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Speaker 1: paraded items up for bid around the room, an event

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Speaker 1: where one senior scientist would sit with the quote prettiest students.

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Speaker 1: Women had to be on guard from on one. It

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Speaker 1: touches um. The first male grad student who helped display

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Speaker 1: auction items at this event had his ass slapped by

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Speaker 1: a senior scientist stude, who said quote for old times sake.

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Speaker 1: McDonald also described a photo from a pass conference where

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Speaker 1: a male senior scientist had his hand between the lengths

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Speaker 1: of two female scientists, lifting them. One is laughing while

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Speaker 1: the other appears to be about to crag. Dear god. Yeah. So.

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Speaker 1: McDonald's also describes how, during the early days of her

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Speaker 1: career she was verbally harassed, masturbated at, and sexually assaulted.

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Speaker 1: She recalled how undergraduate women were referred to as quote

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Speaker 1: fresh meat. Uh. Woman she spoke to about this shared

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Speaker 1: a story about how she had been so happy to

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Speaker 1: be invited to a dinner with a prominent male scientist,

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Speaker 1: and she said, I accepted and thought we were heading

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Speaker 1: to a restaurant. Turns out we went to his house.

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Speaker 1: From there, he indicated I smelled bad and it would

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Speaker 1: be best if I took a shower. I thought it

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Speaker 1: was odd, but I decided to do it. While showering,

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Speaker 1: I looked up at the ceiling and I saw a

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Speaker 1: camera lens sticking out of one of the ceiling tiles,

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Speaker 1: and I could not believe my eyes. I gave the

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Speaker 1: camera a bird, so he knew. I knew. I went out,

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Speaker 1: said nothing and had dinner. I left. I did not

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Speaker 1: confront him. I did not have the courage I wish

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Speaker 1: I had. I'm only sadden to think he did this

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Speaker 1: too many women. It's humiliating to think he watched me.

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Speaker 1: Oh God. And another woman told her that a senior

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Speaker 1: male scientist told her that her career was game over

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Speaker 1: when she told him she was pregnant. Many others told

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Speaker 1: her they've been asked out by superiors and how they've

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Speaker 1: been afraid of the repercussions to their career if they

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Speaker 1: turned these men down. Pretty much every woman she spoke

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Speaker 1: to described experiencing at least light misogyny, uh comments asking

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Speaker 1: who you slept with to get where you were, or

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Speaker 1: that they were, you know, strong for a girl, observations

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Speaker 1: about their bodies, doubts about their experience, and in one example,

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Speaker 1: a woman featured in Shark Week was called by her

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Speaker 1: first name despite being a doctor, while a man who

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Speaker 1: wasn't a doctor was referred to as a doctor and

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Speaker 1: his last name. And being on Shark Week as a

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Speaker 1: shark scientist is obviously a huge career boost um and

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Speaker 1: a chance to get some visibility. So how ridiculously disrespectful? Yeah? Absolutely.

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Speaker 1: One study about Shark Week found that over the thirty

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Speaker 1: plus years it's been running, of the experts were white

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Speaker 1: or white passing and identified as male. Here's a quote

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Speaker 1: from the study of the hosts and experts featured in

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Speaker 1: more than five episodes. There were more men who were

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Speaker 1: non scientists named Mike than there were women of any

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Speaker 1: name or occupation that is really specific. Burns burns me

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Speaker 1: up non scientist name Mike Okay. An initiative by the

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Speaker 1: Atlantic White shark conservacy called the Gills Club, founded by

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Speaker 1: Cynthia Wigran and Maryanne Long fights against the stigma and

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Speaker 1: discrimination against woman instant in part because of the unfortunately

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Speaker 1: accurate gender gas presented in Shark Week. When Tiffany Huddish

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Speaker 1: hosted the thirty Shark Week, she was the first woman

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Speaker 1: of color to do so, so that had to be

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Speaker 1: super recent. Yeah, also sharks. Scientists have released a few

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Speaker 1: studies that have shown that Shark Week is negative in

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Speaker 1: terms of the public perceptions on sharks and often inaccurate.

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Speaker 1: Another woman McDonald spoke to created an educational program for

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Speaker 1: girls in science, only to find out a male supervisor

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Speaker 1: was taking credit for it in the media. When she

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Speaker 1: confronted him quote, he told me, I overestimated my contribution

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Speaker 1: and that no point should have felt ownership over my work.

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Speaker 1: I considered fighting and exposing him, but at the time

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Speaker 1: that felt insurmountable. He was protected by a massive institution

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Speaker 1: and I was protected by absolutely nothing. Over estimate made

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Speaker 1: it wow okay Because of how sharp field work works,

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Speaker 1: often in remote locations, in close quarters in mixed gender

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Speaker 1: sleeping situations, requiring physical contact between scientists, especially when restraining

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Speaker 1: an animal there are a lot of areas where sexual

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Speaker 1: harassment and assault can occur, and the academic journal Nature Geoscience,

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Speaker 1: which includes ocean science, found that no real progress has

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Speaker 1: been made in terms of diversity for over forty years.

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Speaker 1: Here's another quote from McDonald. Becoming a scientist should not

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Speaker 1: require developing the grit to continually endure missogy new discrimination, harassment,

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Speaker 1: assault are bullying. But from their earliest experiences, women scientists

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Speaker 1: learned that if they complain, they'll be described as difficult

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Speaker 1: or a problem. If they're heartbroken by how they're treated

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Speaker 1: compared to their mail peers, they'll be told they're too

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Speaker 1: emotional and need to grow a thicker skin. And if

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Speaker 1: they leave the field, the problem was them they weren't

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Speaker 1: tough enough to have get in shark science, which unfortunately

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Speaker 1: a lot of this rings true for several other fields

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Speaker 1: we've talked about. We just hear these stories over and

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Speaker 1: over again. It's always so infuriating and upsetting. Yeah, and

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Speaker 1: you know what, I was just thinking, like it probably

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Speaker 1: top five things that children will say about when they

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Speaker 1: want to grow up. Marine biologists is one of them.

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Speaker 1: Veterinarian is another. But the marine biologists always stuck in

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Speaker 1: my mind because it was almost like a running joke

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Speaker 1: that everybody said this, and I'm like, there's so much,

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Speaker 1: such a small field in comparison to but perhaps it's

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Speaker 1: more so that is so little opportunity outside of white

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Speaker 1: men that it feels like it's such a small field

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Speaker 1: and it shouldn't be, right, Yeah, because Thosians are huge, right, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and a lot of it's been undiscovered. There's so much

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Speaker 1: to learn, especially now when we've got like climate change

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Speaker 1: and pollution and all that stuff going on. Yeah. I

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Speaker 1: wanted to be a marine biologist and my cousin I

429
00:25:04,560 --> 00:25:07,199
Speaker 1: had a cousin who worked in it for a while.

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00:25:09,280 --> 00:25:11,560
Speaker 1: She had a really cool wedding. I was not invited

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00:25:11,600 --> 00:25:18,880
Speaker 1: to it, but aquarium or something, but she I guess

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00:25:18,960 --> 00:25:23,960
Speaker 1: she succeeded. But I know, it's just hearing these stories. Oh,

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00:25:24,160 --> 00:25:27,200
Speaker 1: it makes me so angry. You know. One of the

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00:25:27,240 --> 00:25:29,960
Speaker 1: best stories about sharks that I think I have watched recently,

435
00:25:29,960 --> 00:25:31,600
Speaker 1: and I think it was on the Dodo. A woman

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00:25:31,720 --> 00:25:37,040
Speaker 1: named Christina Zinado goes and gets hooks out of shark's

437
00:25:37,040 --> 00:25:39,879
Speaker 1: mouth and she's a diver I believe has done this

438
00:25:39,960 --> 00:25:43,000
Speaker 1: for years and she's even made friends with the one

439
00:25:43,119 --> 00:25:46,600
Speaker 1: that remembers her and she would go and visit them. Yeah,

440
00:25:46,720 --> 00:25:49,720
Speaker 1: Like it was just the cutest little like video of her.

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00:25:49,960 --> 00:25:52,000
Speaker 1: She recorded a year after year and they would run

442
00:25:52,040 --> 00:25:54,320
Speaker 1: into each other and she's like, this is my friend

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00:25:54,440 --> 00:25:57,160
Speaker 1: da da Um and she's been doing this for thirteen

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00:25:57,240 --> 00:26:00,439
Speaker 1: years and she has this huge collection of her that

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00:26:00,520 --> 00:26:03,240
Speaker 1: she has been able to remove from the mouth sharks.

446
00:26:03,240 --> 00:26:05,280
Speaker 1: And I was like, wow, that makes me like the

447
00:26:05,359 --> 00:26:07,560
Speaker 1: sharks a little more because either the victim here and

448
00:26:07,600 --> 00:26:10,119
Speaker 1: I felt bad be she's so nice and they're friendly.

449
00:26:10,160 --> 00:26:15,160
Speaker 1: But I'm like, still know and that's okay. So that's okay.

450
00:26:17,880 --> 00:26:20,480
Speaker 1: But you know, we did go over quite a few

451
00:26:21,040 --> 00:26:25,520
Speaker 1: distressing facts in this one, but so so many of

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00:26:25,520 --> 00:26:29,120
Speaker 1: the women's scientists and Shark Science are doing amazing things,

453
00:26:29,119 --> 00:26:31,840
Speaker 1: and a lot of this did give me like hope,

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00:26:31,880 --> 00:26:34,359
Speaker 1: Like I almost wasn't expecting to find this much information,

455
00:26:34,400 --> 00:26:39,399
Speaker 1: to be honest, right, but it's still, yeah, we have

456
00:26:39,560 --> 00:26:42,720
Speaker 1: so much work to go and so so so many

457
00:26:42,760 --> 00:26:45,640
Speaker 1: of the scientists when we were researching this and Shark

458
00:26:45,720 --> 00:26:49,120
Speaker 1: Science have said that they just didn't see themselves represented

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00:26:49,160 --> 00:26:53,240
Speaker 1: growing up or not even really now. So still a

460
00:26:53,280 --> 00:26:57,080
Speaker 1: lot of work to do and there are so many

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00:26:57,119 --> 00:27:02,040
Speaker 1: amazing women doing that great where if we didn't mention one,

462
00:27:02,200 --> 00:27:04,280
Speaker 1: or if we didn't mention you and you happen to

463
00:27:04,280 --> 00:27:08,240
Speaker 1: be listening, please right in. We would love to hear

464
00:27:08,240 --> 00:27:10,200
Speaker 1: about the work you're doing, are the work of someone

465
00:27:10,240 --> 00:27:12,520
Speaker 1: you know. And also we may return to some of

466
00:27:12,560 --> 00:27:16,119
Speaker 1: these women in the future to dig dig in deeper,

467
00:27:16,680 --> 00:27:22,520
Speaker 1: dive in deeper. Ah hi. And then I just want

468
00:27:22,560 --> 00:27:24,640
Speaker 1: to include random shark backs this Actually, do you really

469
00:27:24,720 --> 00:27:28,440
Speaker 1: enjoy sharks? They can have virgin verse, the sex is

470
00:27:28,520 --> 00:27:31,800
Speaker 1: real rough um and they have a sixth sense electro baptism,

471
00:27:31,960 --> 00:27:38,560
Speaker 1: which is featured in Jaws. Do probably yeah, inaccurately, but

472
00:27:38,680 --> 00:27:45,880
Speaker 1: it isn't there. So listeners, as always, we would love

473
00:27:45,920 --> 00:27:48,800
Speaker 1: to hear from you if you would like to email

474
00:27:48,800 --> 00:27:51,120
Speaker 1: as you can our emails Steff medium mom and Stuff

475
00:27:51,160 --> 00:27:52,879
Speaker 1: at iHeart media dot com. You can find us on

476
00:27:52,880 --> 00:27:54,840
Speaker 1: Twitter at MoMA stuff podcast or an Instagram and stuff.

477
00:27:54,800 --> 00:27:57,320
Speaker 1: I've never told you. Thanks, it's always a super producer, Christina,

478
00:27:57,680 --> 00:28:00,439
Speaker 1: Thank you, Thanks to you for listening. Stff. One ever

479
00:28:00,440 --> 00:28:02,360
Speaker 1: told youse prorection, But I heart radio for more podcasts.

480
00:28:02,359 --> 00:28:04,639
Speaker 1: When I Heart Radio is heart radio app Apple podcast

481
00:28:04,720 --> 00:28:06,240
Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows