1 00:00:10,200 --> 00:00:14,240 Speaker 1: From Meat Eaters World News headquarters in Bozeman, Montana. This 2 00:00:14,320 --> 00:00:17,800 Speaker 1: is Col's Week in Review with Ryan cal Klan. 3 00:00:18,800 --> 00:00:19,400 Speaker 2: Here's Cal. 4 00:00:21,480 --> 00:00:25,759 Speaker 1: All right, everybody, welcome to another episode of Cal's Week 5 00:00:25,800 --> 00:00:32,360 Speaker 1: in Review. We're continuing our series with our informed, esteemed 6 00:00:32,440 --> 00:00:36,440 Speaker 1: guest folks who are in the know, are have insights 7 00:00:36,479 --> 00:00:39,800 Speaker 1: into this big wide world of conservation with me as 8 00:00:39,800 --> 00:00:43,760 Speaker 1: always as Jordan Ziller's and again you're listening to Cal's. 9 00:00:43,400 --> 00:00:44,000 Speaker 2: Week in Review. 10 00:00:44,080 --> 00:00:48,279 Speaker 1: This week we have former US Fish and Wildlife Service 11 00:00:49,200 --> 00:00:53,360 Speaker 1: Director Steve Williams. All Right, well, thank you very much 12 00:00:53,400 --> 00:00:58,880 Speaker 1: for coming on. Steve, What would you mind letting our 13 00:00:58,920 --> 00:01:02,240 Speaker 1: audience know when you serve for the US Fish and 14 00:01:02,280 --> 00:01:05,680 Speaker 1: Wildlife Service as director and how you got to that position. 15 00:01:06,319 --> 00:01:10,080 Speaker 3: Yeah, sure, cow. Starting nineteen eighty five, I was a 16 00:01:10,080 --> 00:01:13,720 Speaker 3: dear biologist in the state of Massachusetts, then moved on 17 00:01:13,959 --> 00:01:17,760 Speaker 3: to a Pennsylvania Game Commission as the deputy executive director, 18 00:01:18,920 --> 00:01:21,880 Speaker 3: and then spent seven years after that in Kansas as 19 00:01:21,959 --> 00:01:25,320 Speaker 3: Secretary of Wildlife and Parks, And that took me up 20 00:01:25,360 --> 00:01:28,399 Speaker 3: to Director of the Fish and Wildlife Service. That was 21 00:01:28,480 --> 00:01:30,520 Speaker 3: George W. Bush administration. 22 00:01:30,640 --> 00:01:35,480 Speaker 2: Yeah, so state and federal experience. 23 00:01:36,040 --> 00:01:39,640 Speaker 3: Yes, and then another eighteen years after the Fishing Wildlife 24 00:01:39,680 --> 00:01:43,800 Speaker 3: Service with the Wildlife Management Institute, which is a non 25 00:01:43,840 --> 00:01:52,120 Speaker 3: governmental organization arguably the first professional wildlife organization, not agency, 26 00:01:52,960 --> 00:01:59,160 Speaker 3: but it started nineteen eleven and through to this day, 27 00:01:59,240 --> 00:02:03,200 Speaker 3: we've worked very us with federal government agencies and state 28 00:02:03,240 --> 00:02:06,960 Speaker 3: fish and wildlife agencies. So yeah, I've got about thirty 29 00:02:07,000 --> 00:02:10,200 Speaker 3: eight years experience at the state and federal level, and 30 00:02:10,560 --> 00:02:12,440 Speaker 3: also you know, with the private. 31 00:02:12,240 --> 00:02:18,359 Speaker 1: NGA, and you're with us here today to help us 32 00:02:18,840 --> 00:02:26,919 Speaker 1: kind of understand our current rapidly evolving landscape of wildlife 33 00:02:26,960 --> 00:02:33,279 Speaker 1: management here in the early days of the Trump administration 34 00:02:33,480 --> 00:02:39,799 Speaker 1: round two, right, and we got in touch with you through. 35 00:02:41,480 --> 00:02:42,800 Speaker 2: The Wildlife Society. 36 00:02:43,639 --> 00:02:47,400 Speaker 3: Yeah, I've been a member of that since nineteen seventy nine, 37 00:02:47,480 --> 00:02:49,440 Speaker 3: I think seventy eight or seventy nine. 38 00:02:49,960 --> 00:02:54,119 Speaker 2: And what you know. So there's so much to cover here. 39 00:02:54,160 --> 00:02:56,920 Speaker 1: We want to keep this kind of short and concise, 40 00:02:56,960 --> 00:02:59,040 Speaker 1: but a couple of big bullet points that have rolled 41 00:02:59,040 --> 00:03:01,000 Speaker 1: out recently. 42 00:03:02,680 --> 00:03:05,040 Speaker 2: I'd love to cover, such. 43 00:03:04,840 --> 00:03:10,320 Speaker 1: As oftentimes I would say, like the rank and file 44 00:03:10,680 --> 00:03:15,800 Speaker 1: hunters probably if at all, associate the US fishal Life 45 00:03:15,840 --> 00:03:23,000 Speaker 1: Service with migratory birds like are federally regulated duck stamp 46 00:03:23,080 --> 00:03:29,160 Speaker 1: associated ducks and geese and the regulation. 47 00:03:28,800 --> 00:03:29,880 Speaker 2: Of those species. 48 00:03:30,720 --> 00:03:35,600 Speaker 1: But I think we should also talk about what relationship 49 00:03:36,480 --> 00:03:40,240 Speaker 1: is there between the FEDS, US Fish and Wildlife Service 50 00:03:40,800 --> 00:03:43,280 Speaker 1: and our state agencies. 51 00:03:43,560 --> 00:03:48,320 Speaker 3: That's one of my primary concerns. Cow You're right, absolutely right, 52 00:03:48,400 --> 00:03:55,440 Speaker 3: that migratory bird management and that's you know, also connects 53 00:03:55,480 --> 00:04:00,240 Speaker 3: with state fishing wildlife agencies. But at this point, there's 54 00:04:00,400 --> 00:04:06,840 Speaker 3: two programs that really tie the FEDS and the state 55 00:04:06,880 --> 00:04:10,760 Speaker 3: agencies and then therefore hunters and anglers together in this country. 56 00:04:11,520 --> 00:04:15,120 Speaker 3: The first one is run by the Fish and Wildlife Service, 57 00:04:15,120 --> 00:04:21,080 Speaker 3: and it's the Wildlife and Sport Fish Restoration Program. Nineteen 58 00:04:21,240 --> 00:04:25,480 Speaker 3: thirty seven, Congress passed Pittman Robertson Act, or the Wildlife 59 00:04:25,520 --> 00:04:32,040 Speaker 3: Restoration Act. The funds that Act uses are from an 60 00:04:32,080 --> 00:04:36,920 Speaker 3: excise tax on a gun and ammunition manufacturers, So those 61 00:04:37,080 --> 00:04:40,960 Speaker 3: manufacturers pay an excise tax to the federal government. That 62 00:04:41,120 --> 00:04:44,960 Speaker 3: tax flows through the Fish and Wildlife Service to each 63 00:04:45,000 --> 00:04:48,240 Speaker 3: of the state Fish and Wildlife agencies. Same thing on 64 00:04:48,920 --> 00:04:55,040 Speaker 3: the fish side. That act goes back to nineteen fifty 65 00:04:55,240 --> 00:05:00,719 Speaker 3: the Dingle Johnson Act. Same idea that manufacturers a fit equipment, 66 00:05:00,760 --> 00:05:03,760 Speaker 3: tackle and so on. Pay an exercise tax to the 67 00:05:03,760 --> 00:05:07,360 Speaker 3: federal government that goes through the Fish and Wildlife Service 68 00:05:07,440 --> 00:05:11,360 Speaker 3: and out to every state Fish and Wildlife agency. Why 69 00:05:11,440 --> 00:05:15,200 Speaker 3: is it important. It's about one point three billion dollars 70 00:05:15,240 --> 00:05:19,560 Speaker 3: a year between what hunters and angres pay for their 71 00:05:19,600 --> 00:05:24,000 Speaker 3: license fees in these sport Fish and Wildlife rerustration funds. 72 00:05:24,720 --> 00:05:28,360 Speaker 3: That's the lifeblood of all state all fifty state Fish 73 00:05:28,360 --> 00:05:32,720 Speaker 3: and Wildlife agencies. And the concern that many of us 74 00:05:32,760 --> 00:05:38,039 Speaker 3: have is, well, there's a number of concerns, but one 75 00:05:38,160 --> 00:05:43,839 Speaker 3: is the staffing levels that run that program throughout the country. 76 00:05:44,400 --> 00:05:47,840 Speaker 3: Right now, they're regionally based. There's eight nine regions of 77 00:05:47,880 --> 00:05:50,120 Speaker 3: the Fish and Wilife Service, and they work closely with 78 00:05:50,200 --> 00:05:54,400 Speaker 3: their states to make sure that one point three billion 79 00:05:54,480 --> 00:05:59,200 Speaker 3: dollars is spent on projects that are efficient and effective 80 00:05:59,320 --> 00:06:03,400 Speaker 3: and you know, have impact, have an outcome, and there's 81 00:06:03,400 --> 00:06:08,400 Speaker 3: a lot of to keep the integrity of the program going. 82 00:06:08,960 --> 00:06:11,479 Speaker 3: There's a lot of things states must comply with and 83 00:06:11,520 --> 00:06:13,800 Speaker 3: the federal government must comply with to make sure those 84 00:06:13,839 --> 00:06:19,240 Speaker 3: dollars are spent legally and again, efficiently and effectively. It 85 00:06:19,320 --> 00:06:24,919 Speaker 3: is arguably the engine that drives the greatest conservation successes 86 00:06:25,000 --> 00:06:28,360 Speaker 3: in the world, and that is the direct tie between 87 00:06:28,800 --> 00:06:32,280 Speaker 3: Fish and Wildlife Service and State Fish and Wildlife Agency. 88 00:06:32,360 --> 00:06:35,960 Speaker 3: So as hunter, as a hunter and anger, myself and 89 00:06:36,000 --> 00:06:39,400 Speaker 3: everybody that hunts and fishes in this country ought to 90 00:06:39,839 --> 00:06:45,479 Speaker 3: be aware that the lands that state wildlife lands were 91 00:06:45,560 --> 00:06:48,640 Speaker 3: huntings allowed fishing lands. Some of those were bought with 92 00:06:48,720 --> 00:06:52,640 Speaker 3: those dollars. The management of those properties, many of those 93 00:06:52,720 --> 00:07:00,400 Speaker 3: are paid for with those dollars, and research and management 94 00:07:00,720 --> 00:07:05,000 Speaker 3: of populations are paid for with those dollars. If the 95 00:07:05,080 --> 00:07:08,760 Speaker 3: states can't effectively receive those dollars and put them on 96 00:07:08,800 --> 00:07:12,080 Speaker 3: the ground, hunters and anglers are going to see that 97 00:07:12,720 --> 00:07:15,800 Speaker 3: very quickly. And I'm not sure you know that that 98 00:07:15,920 --> 00:07:17,960 Speaker 3: folks are aware of it. I understand whether or not, 99 00:07:18,000 --> 00:07:21,320 Speaker 3: because it's you know, it's a long process of great history. 100 00:07:21,520 --> 00:07:24,480 Speaker 3: It's one of the best examples of the federal state partnership. 101 00:07:25,360 --> 00:07:29,040 Speaker 1: Yeah, So when we say, like, well, what does this 102 00:07:29,240 --> 00:07:33,520 Speaker 1: mean for us? Right, like, how how do these actions 103 00:07:33,520 --> 00:07:38,120 Speaker 1: affect the end user that the consumer, the customer, the 104 00:07:38,480 --> 00:07:46,640 Speaker 1: hunter and angler, It's can be everything from access quality habitat. 105 00:07:47,000 --> 00:07:49,320 Speaker 2: To bag limits. 106 00:07:50,040 --> 00:07:54,360 Speaker 1: Yes, absolutely, Yeah, one of one of the big topics 107 00:07:54,880 --> 00:07:57,880 Speaker 1: right now. And I literally just had this conversation yesterday 108 00:07:58,320 --> 00:08:02,440 Speaker 1: with an uncle of mine, you know, heard something and 109 00:08:02,480 --> 00:08:05,200 Speaker 1: I had to try to fact check it, and he said, 110 00:08:05,760 --> 00:08:14,120 Speaker 1: will the inability to conduct the annual Migratory Bird Survey, 111 00:08:15,280 --> 00:08:17,640 Speaker 1: which is a rumor going around right now that the 112 00:08:17,760 --> 00:08:20,880 Speaker 1: US Fish and wild Life Service won't have enough funding 113 00:08:21,240 --> 00:08:25,600 Speaker 1: to conduct, you know, the longest running migratory bird survey 114 00:08:25,840 --> 00:08:31,760 Speaker 1: in the world, Will that shut down our waterfowl season? 115 00:08:32,559 --> 00:08:37,360 Speaker 1: And you know, being an armchair expert, I felt qualified 116 00:08:37,400 --> 00:08:42,240 Speaker 1: to say, well, no, I don't think this is going 117 00:08:42,360 --> 00:08:47,920 Speaker 1: to stop our hunting season in the near term, but 118 00:08:48,040 --> 00:08:51,800 Speaker 1: it is going to create a gap in data. And 119 00:08:52,040 --> 00:08:54,760 Speaker 1: my recollection is you don't have to go all that 120 00:08:54,840 --> 00:08:58,960 Speaker 1: far back to point to an example and say, Okay, 121 00:08:59,000 --> 00:09:03,840 Speaker 1: like during the COVID years, the ability to conduct this 122 00:09:03,960 --> 00:09:09,040 Speaker 1: survey was hindered as well, but we still had hunting seasons. However, 123 00:09:09,200 --> 00:09:13,920 Speaker 1: going forward, knowing that the state of our migratory birds 124 00:09:14,240 --> 00:09:18,480 Speaker 1: isn't as good as most people think it is, we 125 00:09:18,720 --> 00:09:23,160 Speaker 1: could in theory, kind of be eating ourselves out of 126 00:09:23,160 --> 00:09:26,400 Speaker 1: house and home because we won't have reliable data to 127 00:09:26,480 --> 00:09:30,839 Speaker 1: set the bag limits in these flyways. 128 00:09:31,960 --> 00:09:36,520 Speaker 3: Yeah, So the concern, as I understand it, is not 129 00:09:36,679 --> 00:09:39,880 Speaker 3: just the funding concern, although that is one, no doubt, 130 00:09:40,720 --> 00:09:46,080 Speaker 3: It's also a matter of staffing in personnel. Same things 131 00:09:46,080 --> 00:09:49,920 Speaker 3: with my concern about staffing levels for the Wildlife and 132 00:09:49,920 --> 00:09:53,599 Speaker 3: Sport Favorite Restoration program, I have the same concern about 133 00:09:54,280 --> 00:10:01,480 Speaker 3: when it comes to migratory waterfowl counts surveys. Those surveys 134 00:10:01,520 --> 00:10:07,000 Speaker 3: require pilots that are extremely experienced, most of them have 135 00:10:07,040 --> 00:10:10,560 Speaker 3: flown for years and years and years. And with you know, 136 00:10:10,840 --> 00:10:13,880 Speaker 3: these current efforts to reduce the reduction in forest or 137 00:10:13,920 --> 00:10:17,440 Speaker 3: riff or layoffs or you know, firings, whatever you want 138 00:10:17,440 --> 00:10:22,160 Speaker 3: to call them, that may impact the number of qualified 139 00:10:22,200 --> 00:10:27,520 Speaker 3: pilots that we even be available to fly. So these, 140 00:10:27,880 --> 00:10:33,520 Speaker 3: you know, you can't cut agencies willy nilly in terms 141 00:10:33,559 --> 00:10:36,440 Speaker 3: of staffing, not knowing you know who needs to beware 142 00:10:36,520 --> 00:10:40,079 Speaker 3: and when. And that seems to be a current with 143 00:10:40,160 --> 00:10:45,280 Speaker 3: respect to the seasons. Yeah, I mean, I don't know 144 00:10:45,920 --> 00:10:48,400 Speaker 3: at this point. I don't think anybody does. I doubt 145 00:10:48,480 --> 00:10:54,160 Speaker 3: there'll be any cancelation of the season. However, as you're aware, Cow, 146 00:10:54,880 --> 00:11:01,720 Speaker 3: those waterfowl surveys have been conducted for years, decades. They 147 00:11:01,760 --> 00:11:04,920 Speaker 3: cover roots and they're they're counting the number of ponds 148 00:11:05,559 --> 00:11:09,120 Speaker 3: and the number of ducks, and those two variables, number 149 00:11:09,120 --> 00:11:13,199 Speaker 3: of ponds and number of ducks play an extremely important 150 00:11:13,280 --> 00:11:18,040 Speaker 3: role in the fishing Wiler Service and the states coming 151 00:11:18,080 --> 00:11:21,880 Speaker 3: together in setting seasoned lengths and bag limits. So in 152 00:11:21,920 --> 00:11:25,400 Speaker 3: the absence of that data, yeah, I mean that they're 153 00:11:26,280 --> 00:11:29,760 Speaker 3: pardon the pun, but they're kind of flying blind. And 154 00:11:31,160 --> 00:11:36,800 Speaker 3: if if it is a pilot situation reducing the number 155 00:11:36,880 --> 00:11:39,720 Speaker 3: of folks that can fly those routes. It's not a 156 00:11:39,760 --> 00:11:43,600 Speaker 3: one year issue, you know, not anyone can just get 157 00:11:43,679 --> 00:11:47,800 Speaker 3: up and start flying waterfowl surveys. If they can't conduct 158 00:11:47,800 --> 00:11:51,000 Speaker 3: them this year, I have would have concerns about the 159 00:11:51,040 --> 00:11:54,520 Speaker 3: next year, in the year beyond that in terms of, 160 00:11:54,559 --> 00:11:56,800 Speaker 3: you know, do we actually have qualified people to conduct 161 00:11:56,840 --> 00:12:01,360 Speaker 3: these surveys, and will Fish and Wildlife Service have the 162 00:12:01,400 --> 00:12:05,160 Speaker 3: funding to conduct the surveys. That's the issue and the 163 00:12:05,200 --> 00:12:09,480 Speaker 3: concern of most of us in the profession is we 164 00:12:09,600 --> 00:12:13,160 Speaker 3: don't know where we're headed as a profession. 165 00:12:14,240 --> 00:12:18,280 Speaker 1: And Steve, just to clarify something here, You're not talking 166 00:12:18,320 --> 00:12:22,640 Speaker 1: about people who just have the ability to fly a plane. 167 00:12:23,120 --> 00:12:32,120 Speaker 1: You're talking about some historical institutional knowledge that has to 168 00:12:32,160 --> 00:12:37,160 Speaker 1: be at minimum kind of passed down to the next 169 00:12:37,400 --> 00:12:40,720 Speaker 1: pilot in order to make these flights effective. 170 00:12:41,600 --> 00:12:46,840 Speaker 3: Yeah. Absolutely, And many of these survey lines are flown 171 00:12:47,000 --> 00:12:53,720 Speaker 3: in extremely remote areas Northern Canada, Alaska. It's not like 172 00:12:53,760 --> 00:13:00,480 Speaker 3: there's an airport, you know, next door. Refueling you know, 173 00:13:00,559 --> 00:13:02,640 Speaker 3: can occur just on the ground with the pilot and 174 00:13:03,559 --> 00:13:08,880 Speaker 3: an observer. I mean they're in the remote wilds of Canada, 175 00:13:09,200 --> 00:13:11,640 Speaker 3: Northern Canada, so it's not like, you know, you just 176 00:13:11,640 --> 00:13:14,240 Speaker 3: pick anybody off the road. You can fly a you 177 00:13:14,240 --> 00:13:19,079 Speaker 3: know whatever, each craft Sessna and put them in those 178 00:13:19,200 --> 00:13:22,360 Speaker 3: kind of conditions. There's a tremendous amount of training. These 179 00:13:22,520 --> 00:13:27,360 Speaker 3: these folks are highly skilled. If you lose those cadre 180 00:13:27,440 --> 00:13:30,760 Speaker 3: of pilots, that's you know, I have a concern about 181 00:13:31,120 --> 00:13:36,880 Speaker 3: where we're going to be next year. In these buyouts 182 00:13:37,600 --> 00:13:42,320 Speaker 3: of you know, early retirement, deferred retirement, I know that 183 00:13:42,400 --> 00:13:46,640 Speaker 3: their staff, inefficient wives are taking them, not necessarily because 184 00:13:46,640 --> 00:13:49,719 Speaker 3: they want to, but they think if I don't take this, 185 00:13:50,480 --> 00:13:54,960 Speaker 3: I may get laid off in a reduction enforced move. 186 00:13:55,280 --> 00:13:59,120 Speaker 3: As much as maybe thirty percent forty percent of the agency. 187 00:13:59,200 --> 00:14:04,560 Speaker 3: I mean it's this that agency and wildlife conservation in 188 00:14:04,559 --> 00:14:08,520 Speaker 3: this country has been built over one hundred years, proven 189 00:14:08,559 --> 00:14:12,160 Speaker 3: to have success. Uh. You know, there's many laws out 190 00:14:12,200 --> 00:14:15,600 Speaker 3: there that are again the pr d j AS nineteen 191 00:14:15,720 --> 00:14:21,200 Speaker 3: thirty seven. Uh, and it's proven that it works, approved 192 00:14:21,200 --> 00:14:25,000 Speaker 3: by Congress, monitored by Congress through you know, through the years. 193 00:14:26,280 --> 00:14:32,760 Speaker 3: And then you know, without any real analysis or well 194 00:14:32,920 --> 00:14:35,960 Speaker 3: any real analysis, to cut the funding for you know, 195 00:14:36,120 --> 00:14:40,200 Speaker 3: these positions, the refuges, the fisheries programs, and the Fishing 196 00:14:40,240 --> 00:14:46,080 Speaker 3: Wiligy Service, it just doesn't make sense. I've heard about 197 00:14:46,400 --> 00:14:50,280 Speaker 3: efforts to consolidate or centralized personnel that are out in 198 00:14:50,320 --> 00:14:53,800 Speaker 3: the regions across the country, the eight regions of the 199 00:14:54,120 --> 00:14:56,440 Speaker 3: I'm sorry, the nine regions of the Fishing Oiledge Service, 200 00:14:56,720 --> 00:14:58,720 Speaker 3: and to bring some of those functions to d C. 201 00:15:00,400 --> 00:15:04,320 Speaker 3: That one really has me scratched in my head because 202 00:15:04,360 --> 00:15:09,280 Speaker 3: I understand it. It's counter to what this administration believes 203 00:15:09,280 --> 00:15:11,600 Speaker 3: and up said about it's important to put these federal 204 00:15:11,640 --> 00:15:17,840 Speaker 3: people out where their constituents are. This is exactly the opposite. 205 00:15:18,080 --> 00:15:22,000 Speaker 3: And it's like filling the swamp rather than draining the swamp. 206 00:15:22,800 --> 00:15:26,560 Speaker 1: Yeah, DC is a little fire from the Pacific Flyway, right, yes, sir, 207 00:15:27,360 --> 00:15:31,680 Speaker 1: and yeah, not to be glib here, but you know, 208 00:15:31,840 --> 00:15:36,120 Speaker 1: the messaging that we're hearing out of DC is as 209 00:15:36,400 --> 00:15:42,720 Speaker 1: as you said, it's really just doing what matters for 210 00:15:42,800 --> 00:15:48,320 Speaker 1: the American people, right and providing those services at the 211 00:15:48,400 --> 00:15:54,480 Speaker 1: local level and not having the quote unquote kind of 212 00:15:54,520 --> 00:15:58,480 Speaker 1: like big government approach where they don't consult with the 213 00:15:58,520 --> 00:16:03,480 Speaker 1: locals and it's just handed down from unseen forces in DZ. 214 00:16:04,640 --> 00:16:09,920 Speaker 1: So you know, that's the answer that we need, right, 215 00:16:10,000 --> 00:16:12,080 Speaker 1: is like what does the US ficial Aid life service 216 00:16:12,200 --> 00:16:16,120 Speaker 1: do for the end consumer? And you know, ideally, if 217 00:16:16,400 --> 00:16:18,800 Speaker 1: folks are aware of that and they see value in that, 218 00:16:18,880 --> 00:16:19,920 Speaker 1: then they're going to stick. 219 00:16:19,800 --> 00:16:21,440 Speaker 2: Up for that. 220 00:16:22,520 --> 00:16:25,280 Speaker 3: Yeah, and I think they will cow And I mean, 221 00:16:25,360 --> 00:16:27,880 Speaker 3: let me, let me just back up a minute. The 222 00:16:28,200 --> 00:16:31,800 Speaker 3: idea that you should come in and and and take 223 00:16:31,840 --> 00:16:34,120 Speaker 3: a look at what agencies are doing, how they're spending 224 00:16:34,160 --> 00:16:37,400 Speaker 3: their money, where they're spending their money. You know, is 225 00:16:37,440 --> 00:16:40,320 Speaker 3: it effective, is it efficient? I am all for that. 226 00:16:40,840 --> 00:16:43,600 Speaker 3: I worked for four different state agents or three different 227 00:16:43,600 --> 00:16:47,200 Speaker 3: state agencies and Innofficial Auto Service, and we were constantly 228 00:16:47,240 --> 00:16:52,000 Speaker 3: looking for ways to improve efficiency and effectiveness. We did 229 00:16:52,040 --> 00:16:56,720 Speaker 3: it by evaluating, you know, what was working, what wasn't working, 230 00:16:57,400 --> 00:17:01,440 Speaker 3: getting rid of things that didn't work. Adding funding where 231 00:17:01,440 --> 00:17:04,640 Speaker 3: we needed it to make it more effective. That's a 232 00:17:04,680 --> 00:17:09,520 Speaker 3: common sense, very practical Dare I say a scientific way 233 00:17:09,960 --> 00:17:17,919 Speaker 3: about improving agency effectiveness and agency programs. Unfortunately, that's not 234 00:17:18,000 --> 00:17:21,280 Speaker 3: what we're seeing. What we're seeing is as folks go 235 00:17:21,440 --> 00:17:26,960 Speaker 3: in the dose group go in, they may or may 236 00:17:26,960 --> 00:17:31,480 Speaker 3: not have any experience, in this case in conservation and 237 00:17:31,960 --> 00:17:36,760 Speaker 3: making decisions quickly that we're going to have a long 238 00:17:36,880 --> 00:17:39,800 Speaker 3: term may have a long term impact on a fishing 239 00:17:39,880 --> 00:17:43,680 Speaker 3: wildlife service and therefore on the state agencies that work 240 00:17:43,720 --> 00:17:46,680 Speaker 3: closely with the Fishing Wildlife Service, and no state fish 241 00:17:46,720 --> 00:17:51,120 Speaker 3: and wildlife agencies work directly for hunters, anglers and all 242 00:17:51,160 --> 00:17:55,280 Speaker 3: the constituents in their state. I'm retired now, but I've 243 00:17:55,280 --> 00:17:59,600 Speaker 3: spent my whole career working in fishing, wildlife conservation, and 244 00:17:59,640 --> 00:18:02,399 Speaker 3: my heart breaks for what I see, what's happening and 245 00:18:02,400 --> 00:18:07,680 Speaker 3: what may happen to again, conservation programs that are and 246 00:18:07,880 --> 00:18:08,600 Speaker 3: viea of the world. 247 00:18:11,560 --> 00:18:13,560 Speaker 1: You know, Like if we were to jump over to 248 00:18:13,960 --> 00:18:17,320 Speaker 1: this last round, I think it's the last or the 249 00:18:17,320 --> 00:18:24,080 Speaker 1: most recent I should say, round of executive orders titled 250 00:18:24,160 --> 00:18:28,080 Speaker 1: zero based Regulatory Budgeting to Unleash American Energy that popped 251 00:18:28,080 --> 00:18:35,640 Speaker 1: out April ninth, and this one if I can read 252 00:18:35,720 --> 00:18:40,080 Speaker 1: through it properly, and this is giving some faith to 253 00:18:40,760 --> 00:18:46,840 Speaker 1: the federal government right now. The idea is to summarize 254 00:18:47,800 --> 00:18:55,760 Speaker 1: regulations that have been amended and added on to for 255 00:18:56,880 --> 00:19:01,920 Speaker 1: decades now in some cases, to modernize them, make them 256 00:19:02,160 --> 00:19:06,720 Speaker 1: more easily to digestible, get rid of the extra paper 257 00:19:06,880 --> 00:19:10,920 Speaker 1: and time it takes to read that paper. And when 258 00:19:10,960 --> 00:19:14,919 Speaker 1: we talk about historical knowledge, you know that boots on 259 00:19:15,000 --> 00:19:18,880 Speaker 1: the ground, this is how you make things work. The 260 00:19:18,920 --> 00:19:22,120 Speaker 1: common sense, level headed part of me is like, well, 261 00:19:22,160 --> 00:19:25,760 Speaker 1: I know what that's about. Because if you have somebody 262 00:19:25,800 --> 00:19:28,240 Speaker 1: who's brand new to the job and they read something 263 00:19:29,320 --> 00:19:31,040 Speaker 1: that says this is the way you're supposed to do this, 264 00:19:32,119 --> 00:19:36,240 Speaker 1: the older person on the crew goes, yeah, yeah, that's 265 00:19:36,240 --> 00:19:40,480 Speaker 1: what it says. But this is the way we actually 266 00:19:40,520 --> 00:19:46,720 Speaker 1: do it, because this way pertains to our actual situation, 267 00:19:47,840 --> 00:19:53,520 Speaker 1: whereas the paper is like a broad scope that doesn't 268 00:19:53,560 --> 00:19:58,640 Speaker 1: necessarily pertain to the pertinent on the ground, step by 269 00:19:58,680 --> 00:20:03,800 Speaker 1: step order of operations, and so like when we dig 270 00:20:03,880 --> 00:20:08,800 Speaker 1: into any one of these, but you know, we can 271 00:20:08,880 --> 00:20:11,080 Speaker 1: go back to like the Mining Act of eighteen seventy two, 272 00:20:11,200 --> 00:20:13,960 Speaker 1: right like eighteen seventy two was a long time ago. 273 00:20:14,560 --> 00:20:19,399 Speaker 1: In order to make that pertain with some degree of relevance, 274 00:20:19,560 --> 00:20:25,480 Speaker 1: it's been added on to an amended multiple times throughout history. 275 00:20:26,080 --> 00:20:28,879 Speaker 1: That one's not the best example, because nobody likes to 276 00:20:28,880 --> 00:20:32,399 Speaker 1: touch the Mining Act. But how much of a setback, 277 00:20:32,520 --> 00:20:37,600 Speaker 1: I guess is it for us? What would be the 278 00:20:37,640 --> 00:20:41,000 Speaker 1: ability for somebody new and out of school who lands 279 00:20:41,040 --> 00:20:46,959 Speaker 1: in one of these jobs to perform at a reasonable 280 00:20:47,040 --> 00:20:53,359 Speaker 1: level like what doge wants, right, efficiency for our tax 281 00:20:53,400 --> 00:21:00,399 Speaker 1: dollar without having that knowledgeable person on the cruise around 282 00:21:00,400 --> 00:21:02,440 Speaker 1: for a decade already and knows how things work. 283 00:21:03,640 --> 00:21:09,960 Speaker 3: Yeah, that's an interesting question. Cal So, let's just think 284 00:21:09,960 --> 00:21:13,240 Speaker 3: about what's really happening. A lot of the older folks, 285 00:21:13,400 --> 00:21:18,200 Speaker 3: experienced folks who could retire or are close to retirement, 286 00:21:19,280 --> 00:21:23,280 Speaker 3: may do that. We're seeing, you know, an increase in 287 00:21:23,359 --> 00:21:26,679 Speaker 3: retirement and retirement in the service. I mean, people are 288 00:21:27,760 --> 00:21:30,480 Speaker 3: that can get out. Many of them are getting out. 289 00:21:30,760 --> 00:21:33,600 Speaker 3: Some of them are getting out because that may open 290 00:21:33,680 --> 00:21:36,640 Speaker 3: up a slot for someone else to stay in, right 291 00:21:37,400 --> 00:21:40,639 Speaker 3: but I mean not But and so we're losing some 292 00:21:40,720 --> 00:21:44,200 Speaker 3: of the older folks with that institutional knowledge you're talking about. 293 00:21:45,720 --> 00:21:48,760 Speaker 3: And at the same time, reducing the number of positions 294 00:21:49,400 --> 00:21:51,600 Speaker 3: not just an official Wildays Service, but in the Park 295 00:21:51,640 --> 00:21:54,280 Speaker 3: Service and all across the way. So if I were 296 00:21:54,320 --> 00:21:58,240 Speaker 3: coming out of college right now, my opportunity to work 297 00:21:58,320 --> 00:22:03,440 Speaker 3: for a federal land management agency's way down. You know 298 00:22:03,520 --> 00:22:07,080 Speaker 3: that the openings will not be there, So you know, 299 00:22:07,200 --> 00:22:09,080 Speaker 3: I don't know what I'll do. I'll look for another 300 00:22:09,160 --> 00:22:13,480 Speaker 3: job somewhere else. So it's not just losing the institutional memory, 301 00:22:13,520 --> 00:22:17,400 Speaker 3: it's also losing the ability to bring young folks in 302 00:22:17,800 --> 00:22:21,960 Speaker 3: and move them up. The first round of these early 303 00:22:22,119 --> 00:22:28,040 Speaker 3: retirement and deferred to early retirement and the probationary cuts 304 00:22:28,080 --> 00:22:31,879 Speaker 3: also affected people in mid level, not just the people 305 00:22:31,920 --> 00:22:34,840 Speaker 3: that have been there a year or so. If you 306 00:22:34,880 --> 00:22:38,080 Speaker 3: were promoted, let's say you work for the Fisial Wiolence 307 00:22:38,119 --> 00:22:41,720 Speaker 3: Service for twenty five years, you get promoted to some position, 308 00:22:41,800 --> 00:22:45,399 Speaker 3: a higher position. If you got caught in that probationary period, 309 00:22:45,560 --> 00:22:48,840 Speaker 3: you were out. That doesn't make any sense at all 310 00:22:48,920 --> 00:22:52,520 Speaker 3: to anybody, I don't think, But that's the that's the 311 00:22:52,600 --> 00:22:55,400 Speaker 3: kind of way that they're dealing with it. But back 312 00:22:55,440 --> 00:22:58,879 Speaker 3: to the executive Order, I mean, you're right to be 313 00:22:58,960 --> 00:23:02,840 Speaker 3: concerned about have people that have that knowledge to really 314 00:23:02,880 --> 00:23:07,480 Speaker 3: know what it means and to put what it means 315 00:23:07,520 --> 00:23:11,560 Speaker 3: on the ground. As I read it, and and I 316 00:23:11,680 --> 00:23:16,040 Speaker 3: just got it earlier today and read it rather quickly, 317 00:23:16,640 --> 00:23:20,280 Speaker 3: but as I understand what it does is it's well, 318 00:23:20,320 --> 00:23:23,800 Speaker 3: I'll back up. So Congress passes the law Migratory Bird Act, 319 00:23:25,440 --> 00:23:29,119 Speaker 3: Danger Species Act, whatever it might be, and then gives 320 00:23:29,160 --> 00:23:33,200 Speaker 3: the agencies some leeway to develop regulations under the law. 321 00:23:34,200 --> 00:23:38,239 Speaker 3: So those regulations come, they are developed by agencies, but 322 00:23:38,280 --> 00:23:41,800 Speaker 3: they come with the direction from Congress. So Congress doesn't 323 00:23:41,840 --> 00:23:45,000 Speaker 3: get weigh down in the weeds, but they provide the 324 00:23:45,080 --> 00:23:48,960 Speaker 3: template for the agencies to develop regulations to carry out 325 00:23:49,040 --> 00:23:54,080 Speaker 3: those laws. Okay, you know, can regulations be improved? Absolutely? 326 00:23:54,720 --> 00:23:57,720 Speaker 3: I mean I wrote regulations in the past that you know, 327 00:23:57,960 --> 00:24:00,800 Speaker 3: two three, four years later we got to change. That 328 00:24:01,000 --> 00:24:06,640 Speaker 3: doesn't work. But now again, as I read it, these 329 00:24:06,720 --> 00:24:10,520 Speaker 3: regulations for all the acts that were identified in an 330 00:24:10,600 --> 00:24:16,960 Speaker 3: executive order, those agencies have been instructed to amend those 331 00:24:17,040 --> 00:24:21,639 Speaker 3: regulations in sunset them in one year, so they have 332 00:24:21,760 --> 00:24:26,040 Speaker 3: until September to look at the regulations. Add to each 333 00:24:26,080 --> 00:24:28,639 Speaker 3: of those regulations, and you have to go through the 334 00:24:28,640 --> 00:24:32,760 Speaker 3: Federal Register, and it's very involved process and say that 335 00:24:32,840 --> 00:24:37,479 Speaker 3: this regulation sunsets a year from now. So if the 336 00:24:37,520 --> 00:24:42,639 Speaker 3: first one was done, if play this scenario out, because 337 00:24:42,640 --> 00:24:47,159 Speaker 3: this is reality. If the Service or whatever agencies you know, 338 00:24:47,359 --> 00:24:51,200 Speaker 3: starts tomorrow and picks ten regulations, they say these things 339 00:24:51,200 --> 00:24:54,919 Speaker 3: sunset a year from now, so April whatever we are 340 00:24:55,200 --> 00:25:01,560 Speaker 3: seventeenth April seventeenth of twenty twenty six, that regulation is 341 00:25:01,640 --> 00:25:05,800 Speaker 3: null and void unless it's amended and go through the regulator, 342 00:25:05,800 --> 00:25:11,760 Speaker 3: the regulatory process, which is long involved, expensive, every regulation, 343 00:25:12,560 --> 00:25:15,359 Speaker 3: not pick out the ones that really need to be 344 00:25:15,880 --> 00:25:19,040 Speaker 3: you know, improved, modified, what have you. You've got to go 345 00:25:19,119 --> 00:25:24,720 Speaker 3: through every regulation and every act, every law and one 346 00:25:24,800 --> 00:25:31,159 Speaker 3: year sunset. I really hate being chicken little, But what 347 00:25:31,280 --> 00:25:34,520 Speaker 3: administration is going to be around one year from now? 348 00:25:35,160 --> 00:25:39,840 Speaker 3: We know that answer, So I mean it, if I 349 00:25:39,920 --> 00:25:45,440 Speaker 3: were in the Service, I'm not sure how I how 350 00:25:45,480 --> 00:25:49,919 Speaker 3: I would do my job because it just does It 351 00:25:49,960 --> 00:25:52,840 Speaker 3: doesn't make any sense. Cow. I mean again, there's ways 352 00:25:52,880 --> 00:25:56,160 Speaker 3: to do this, and and and these folks are smart enough. 353 00:25:56,960 --> 00:26:01,480 Speaker 3: You know, businesses don't operate like this. They again, they 354 00:26:01,480 --> 00:26:06,080 Speaker 3: collect information, they analyze that, they make changes, they monitor, 355 00:26:06,520 --> 00:26:11,200 Speaker 3: there's changes. They then they change, you know, incrementally, this 356 00:26:11,280 --> 00:26:13,960 Speaker 3: is one hundred year history of conservation in the country, 357 00:26:15,000 --> 00:26:17,800 Speaker 3: and we're at the precipice of having one hundred years 358 00:26:17,800 --> 00:26:23,879 Speaker 3: of experience go out the window because of some of 359 00:26:23,920 --> 00:26:27,439 Speaker 3: these things that are coming out, you know, reduction in people, 360 00:26:28,920 --> 00:26:35,800 Speaker 3: sun setting regulations again, review, modify, change regulations that they 361 00:26:35,840 --> 00:26:38,679 Speaker 3: need to be. That's that's a common occurrence and an 362 00:26:38,720 --> 00:26:43,560 Speaker 3: important occurrence. But to sunset all the regulations in one year, 363 00:26:44,240 --> 00:26:49,440 Speaker 3: that's unprecedented. That's never happened in the history of this quest. 364 00:26:49,560 --> 00:26:53,639 Speaker 1: And for the for the listeners here, and this is 365 00:26:53,760 --> 00:26:57,080 Speaker 1: out of the Executive Order for the Fish and Wildlife Service. 366 00:26:57,160 --> 00:27:00,320 Speaker 1: This order applies to all regulations issued pursuing to the 367 00:27:00,320 --> 00:27:04,600 Speaker 1: following statutes and any amendments there too, the Bald and 368 00:27:04,640 --> 00:27:07,720 Speaker 1: Golden Eagle Protection Act, the Migratory Bird Treaty Act of 369 00:27:07,800 --> 00:27:11,320 Speaker 1: nineteen eighteen, the Fish and Wildlife Coordination Act of nineteen 370 00:27:11,359 --> 00:27:15,320 Speaker 1: thirty four, the Anadramus Fish Conservation Act of nineteen sixty five, 371 00:27:15,720 --> 00:27:18,800 Speaker 1: the Marine Mammal Protection Act of nineteen seventy two, the 372 00:27:18,920 --> 00:27:22,359 Speaker 1: Endangered Species Act of nineteen seventy three, the Magnus and 373 00:27:22,400 --> 00:27:26,080 Speaker 1: Stephens Fishery Conservation and Management Act of nineteen seventy six 374 00:27:26,520 --> 00:27:29,800 Speaker 1: and the Coastal Barrier Resources Act of nineteen eighty two. 375 00:27:30,800 --> 00:27:31,760 Speaker 2: A lot more going on. 376 00:27:31,720 --> 00:27:38,119 Speaker 1: Here too, I would ask, is, so you take the 377 00:27:38,160 --> 00:27:41,720 Speaker 1: Marine Mammal Protection Act of nineteen seventy two, and we've 378 00:27:41,760 --> 00:27:50,080 Speaker 1: seen in certain areas a pretty significant rebound sea lions, seals, 379 00:27:51,359 --> 00:27:57,520 Speaker 1: sea otters, those types of species that you know to 380 00:27:57,200 --> 00:28:01,000 Speaker 1: the work in everyday angler and even the creational angler 381 00:28:01,520 --> 00:28:04,639 Speaker 1: can be a pain in the butt when it comes 382 00:28:04,640 --> 00:28:10,600 Speaker 1: to nets or even fish on hook and line. Would 383 00:28:10,640 --> 00:28:16,640 Speaker 1: we I know this is forecasting here, but is there 384 00:28:16,720 --> 00:28:19,600 Speaker 1: a possibility that we would see something like the Marine 385 00:28:19,600 --> 00:28:23,480 Speaker 1: Mammal Protection Act in nineteen seventy two amended in a 386 00:28:23,520 --> 00:28:29,240 Speaker 1: way that would be reflective of changes in those populations 387 00:28:28,920 --> 00:28:33,760 Speaker 1: in a positive sense? Or is it literally because of 388 00:28:33,800 --> 00:28:37,760 Speaker 1: the regulatory framework, are we going to be in a 389 00:28:37,800 --> 00:28:43,320 Speaker 1: position where all of these acts and the regulations pursuant 390 00:28:44,320 --> 00:28:47,520 Speaker 1: or in so much flux that they're just not essentially 391 00:28:47,560 --> 00:28:48,680 Speaker 1: going to be in effect. 392 00:28:49,520 --> 00:28:54,240 Speaker 3: Yeah, that's a workload issue, I think. Count I don't 393 00:28:54,280 --> 00:29:00,920 Speaker 3: know how with less staff, considerably less staff, as I understand, 394 00:29:02,160 --> 00:29:04,160 Speaker 3: how are there going to be able to process all 395 00:29:04,200 --> 00:29:10,960 Speaker 3: those regulations and there are thousands of them again built time, 396 00:29:11,680 --> 00:29:15,480 Speaker 3: you know, over time, based on experience, modified, amended, and 397 00:29:15,520 --> 00:29:18,840 Speaker 3: so on, based on experience. So I think that the 398 00:29:19,800 --> 00:29:23,640 Speaker 3: overall I answered that just to your question is could 399 00:29:23,640 --> 00:29:28,640 Speaker 3: this have an impact on hunters and angusy, Yes, absolutely not, 400 00:29:28,760 --> 00:29:32,800 Speaker 3: just could will It may be positive in some ways, 401 00:29:32,800 --> 00:29:38,200 Speaker 3: maybe negative in some ways, But that executive order, as 402 00:29:38,240 --> 00:29:41,880 Speaker 3: I'm sitting here talking to you, I'm thinking about it again, 403 00:29:43,120 --> 00:29:46,160 Speaker 3: go in surgically and say we have issues with these, 404 00:29:47,240 --> 00:29:53,720 Speaker 3: with these one hundred regulations, that executive order is lazy. 405 00:29:54,960 --> 00:29:58,600 Speaker 3: It's inefficient. If you follow what I'm saying. If you've 406 00:29:58,600 --> 00:30:02,400 Speaker 3: got issues with those, regular dig in, find which ones 407 00:30:02,800 --> 00:30:06,840 Speaker 3: you have problems with, and work to amend them to 408 00:30:06,920 --> 00:30:10,120 Speaker 3: whatever ends you want. In a send, you know, it's energy, 409 00:30:10,840 --> 00:30:15,640 Speaker 3: energy of development. And again I mean I drive a 410 00:30:15,720 --> 00:30:19,200 Speaker 3: Chevy fifteen hundred Silver Autum and a Chevy Suburban, so 411 00:30:19,840 --> 00:30:23,240 Speaker 3: I understand the need for energy, oil and gas. But 412 00:30:24,120 --> 00:30:27,680 Speaker 3: to put out an executive versus okay, you guys again, 413 00:30:27,760 --> 00:30:31,400 Speaker 3: a reduced staff at the Service and every other federal agency. 414 00:30:31,560 --> 00:30:33,440 Speaker 3: You've got to look at every one of these laws 415 00:30:33,520 --> 00:30:36,000 Speaker 3: and the thousands of regulations that go along with it. 416 00:30:36,480 --> 00:30:39,920 Speaker 3: Sunset every one of them in a year, and then 417 00:30:39,960 --> 00:30:43,080 Speaker 3: we'll decide what we're going to do that is as 418 00:30:43,120 --> 00:30:47,360 Speaker 3: inefficient as I can imagine. I mean, I don't know 419 00:30:47,400 --> 00:30:51,520 Speaker 3: where the Department of Government efficiency falls. I know where 420 00:30:51,560 --> 00:30:55,239 Speaker 3: they fall down on it, but I would say, you know, 421 00:30:55,800 --> 00:30:58,160 Speaker 3: they need to do their job and identify what the 422 00:30:58,240 --> 00:31:04,240 Speaker 3: problems are, not just you know, wholesale blanket over everything, 423 00:31:04,680 --> 00:31:09,680 Speaker 3: and then leave it up to a federal workforce which 424 00:31:09,760 --> 00:31:12,840 Speaker 3: is going to be quite less than it is today. 425 00:31:14,080 --> 00:31:19,160 Speaker 3: It's it's a recipe for disaster. And trying to go 426 00:31:19,240 --> 00:31:22,760 Speaker 3: through all these regulations and through the regulatory process, I 427 00:31:22,800 --> 00:31:25,280 Speaker 3: don't I really don't see how it can even happen. 428 00:31:26,800 --> 00:31:33,680 Speaker 3: I can't imagine how you can possibly practically practically go 429 00:31:33,800 --> 00:31:38,080 Speaker 3: through that process. And I suspect the folks that help 430 00:31:38,120 --> 00:31:42,680 Speaker 3: write that executive order have had no experience going through 431 00:31:42,720 --> 00:31:46,080 Speaker 3: the regulatory process. I'd like to know, you know, who 432 00:31:46,200 --> 00:31:48,719 Speaker 3: is behind all that, and then ask them, you know, 433 00:31:48,920 --> 00:31:53,520 Speaker 3: have you ever gone through this process. It's lengthy, it 434 00:31:53,640 --> 00:31:59,360 Speaker 3: costs money, it takes people, it takes public input. It's 435 00:31:59,400 --> 00:32:01,640 Speaker 3: not a simple. It's not as simple as they seem 436 00:32:01,720 --> 00:32:04,360 Speaker 3: to make it. And I think it's because they don't 437 00:32:04,360 --> 00:32:05,800 Speaker 3: have experience dealing with it. 438 00:32:07,280 --> 00:32:10,680 Speaker 1: You know, all of these are you know, it's it's 439 00:32:10,720 --> 00:32:15,600 Speaker 1: like forecasting. It's kind of unfair questions here, So I apologize, Steve, 440 00:32:15,640 --> 00:32:20,600 Speaker 1: but no problem. What is like if it's a disaster 441 00:32:20,720 --> 00:32:23,560 Speaker 1: in the making, Like what if you could pick one 442 00:32:23,600 --> 00:32:26,720 Speaker 1: out of that list, Like what is the effect going 443 00:32:26,800 --> 00:32:30,360 Speaker 1: to be on the hunter and angler here? Like what's 444 00:32:30,440 --> 00:32:34,320 Speaker 1: the felt effect? And just to kind of throw out 445 00:32:34,520 --> 00:32:37,840 Speaker 1: where my mind goes, right, is like part of the 446 00:32:37,840 --> 00:32:42,320 Speaker 1: the value to I would say the American people of 447 00:32:42,360 --> 00:32:48,080 Speaker 1: like that migratory bird survey, right is knowing how many 448 00:32:48,080 --> 00:32:52,680 Speaker 1: prairie potholes there are, specifically how many we have left 449 00:32:53,000 --> 00:32:58,520 Speaker 1: due to habitat destruction. And the fewer there are, the 450 00:32:58,640 --> 00:33:04,360 Speaker 1: more valuable they are. Right now, a good buddy mine 451 00:33:04,360 --> 00:33:08,440 Speaker 1: in the in the Pacific Flyway, Central Valley, California, you know, 452 00:33:08,560 --> 00:33:12,000 Speaker 1: sent me the updated regulations and for the first time 453 00:33:12,000 --> 00:33:15,240 Speaker 1: in a very long time, you're going to be able 454 00:33:15,280 --> 00:33:20,800 Speaker 1: to shoot I think it's three pintail this season, and 455 00:33:20,880 --> 00:33:23,680 Speaker 1: it used to be just one. And boy did those 456 00:33:23,720 --> 00:33:28,920 Speaker 1: Californians scream like mash cats over the fact that they 457 00:33:29,840 --> 00:33:32,959 Speaker 1: they can only shoot one pintail because yeah, you see 458 00:33:33,040 --> 00:33:38,160 Speaker 1: a ton of pintails, but you know one to three 459 00:33:38,200 --> 00:33:40,840 Speaker 1: is a big shift, and it's you know, it's an 460 00:33:40,840 --> 00:33:44,880 Speaker 1: either sex regulation. It's not not a drake only. I 461 00:33:44,960 --> 00:33:50,400 Speaker 1: believe that's correct. And you know what without that survey, 462 00:33:50,440 --> 00:33:53,280 Speaker 1: if in fact it doesn't go through, Like, how do 463 00:33:53,320 --> 00:33:57,760 Speaker 1: we really know the effects of that regulation change? And 464 00:33:58,440 --> 00:34:02,280 Speaker 1: how do we know the value of the quantity and 465 00:34:02,360 --> 00:34:07,160 Speaker 1: value of the nesting areas those those potholes, those intermittent 466 00:34:07,160 --> 00:34:09,279 Speaker 1: wetlands that we have left. 467 00:34:10,080 --> 00:34:14,360 Speaker 3: Yeah, we won't. And and the fact that you know, 468 00:34:14,440 --> 00:34:17,160 Speaker 3: you go from one to three bird limit on pintails. 469 00:34:18,239 --> 00:34:23,040 Speaker 3: Obviously that's you know, that's a function of water levels 470 00:34:23,600 --> 00:34:26,319 Speaker 3: and breeding conditions and so on. But how did we 471 00:34:26,360 --> 00:34:31,560 Speaker 3: get to that? Through science? Through the waterfouse surveys, through 472 00:34:31,719 --> 00:34:35,640 Speaker 3: building more and more confidence, you know, in the harvest structure, 473 00:34:36,760 --> 00:34:39,680 Speaker 3: and we learn year to year to year and those 474 00:34:39,719 --> 00:34:46,960 Speaker 3: things get better. There's ability to predict and increase bag 475 00:34:47,000 --> 00:34:52,640 Speaker 3: limits and so on season lengths. That's built on again, 476 00:34:52,920 --> 00:34:56,240 Speaker 3: you know, almost one hundred years of experience doing something 477 00:34:57,360 --> 00:35:00,439 Speaker 3: and improving upon it, throwing out what does and work? 478 00:35:01,480 --> 00:35:04,400 Speaker 3: Emphasizing what does work? I mean, that's how you get 479 00:35:05,080 --> 00:35:07,120 Speaker 3: to a situation where you can go from one to 480 00:35:07,160 --> 00:35:10,719 Speaker 3: three pin deals with confidence. You know, it's not just 481 00:35:10,800 --> 00:35:15,120 Speaker 3: the ficial Ology service scientists. It's also state fishing WILFE 482 00:35:15,200 --> 00:35:21,759 Speaker 3: agency waterfowl biologists who sit down and you know, they're 483 00:35:21,880 --> 00:35:26,800 Speaker 3: obviously concerned about conservation of those species as well as 484 00:35:27,040 --> 00:35:33,560 Speaker 3: providing you know, the optimum or maximum of hunting opportunity. 485 00:35:34,440 --> 00:35:38,960 Speaker 3: If if they go through some migratory bird TREATI ACT 486 00:35:38,960 --> 00:35:46,440 Speaker 3: for instance, and many others, and those regulations change, it throws, 487 00:35:46,719 --> 00:35:50,040 Speaker 3: you know, a monkey wrench into the whole process. It could, 488 00:35:50,360 --> 00:35:54,840 Speaker 3: I mean, it may or may not, but my thinking 489 00:35:54,880 --> 00:36:03,000 Speaker 3: is it certainly will. And then those acts, there's many 490 00:36:03,080 --> 00:36:06,960 Speaker 3: of them, address habitat, not just a species, but habitat. 491 00:36:07,040 --> 00:36:11,919 Speaker 3: So how will UH hunter and angler be impacted by 492 00:36:12,239 --> 00:36:16,440 Speaker 3: potential changes in those regulations? And again, as the viewing 493 00:36:16,480 --> 00:36:20,640 Speaker 3: those regulations through the lens of energy development, all right, 494 00:36:21,080 --> 00:36:25,120 Speaker 3: you know what impedes energy development? I mean that's the 495 00:36:25,200 --> 00:36:27,560 Speaker 3: way I read it. And I may read it wrong. 496 00:36:28,120 --> 00:36:30,279 Speaker 3: I freely admit that. But if I may, if I 497 00:36:30,320 --> 00:36:35,040 Speaker 3: read it right, those regulations will be modified in order 498 00:36:35,080 --> 00:36:43,799 Speaker 3: to promote encourage energy development that occurs on private land 499 00:36:43,960 --> 00:36:48,319 Speaker 3: and on public lane that may occur on some of 500 00:36:48,320 --> 00:36:54,440 Speaker 3: your favorite big game migration corridors. Uh, you know, flyways, 501 00:36:55,400 --> 00:36:59,120 Speaker 3: winter habitat for big game, summer habitat for big game 502 00:37:00,280 --> 00:37:04,200 Speaker 3: impact of fisheries. I mean, all those things are in 503 00:37:04,320 --> 00:37:10,400 Speaker 3: play in terms of reviewing changing regulations within a year 504 00:37:10,520 --> 00:37:15,240 Speaker 3: or so in order to you know, have the US 505 00:37:15,280 --> 00:37:20,560 Speaker 3: become energy dominant, which which by the way, we pretty 506 00:37:20,600 --> 00:37:22,240 Speaker 3: much are right now. 507 00:37:26,000 --> 00:37:28,000 Speaker 1: Okay, so we've we've talked a little bit about the 508 00:37:29,760 --> 00:37:32,840 Speaker 1: well a lot ultimately about migratory birds and some some 509 00:37:32,960 --> 00:37:39,160 Speaker 1: season settings and and possible impacts of regulation. What else, 510 00:37:40,160 --> 00:37:43,680 Speaker 1: as we see kind of a curtail of the ability 511 00:37:43,719 --> 00:37:47,120 Speaker 1: of US Fish and Wildlife Service to work in a 512 00:37:47,120 --> 00:37:49,120 Speaker 1: lot of ways. I don't know how else to put it. 513 00:37:49,800 --> 00:37:51,799 Speaker 1: Where else are we going to get hurt here? As 514 00:37:51,880 --> 00:37:53,360 Speaker 1: this as the end consumer. 515 00:37:54,239 --> 00:37:57,279 Speaker 3: So there's a lot of land management agencies, you know, 516 00:37:57,719 --> 00:38:01,000 Speaker 3: for service, park service, fishing, wology or as BLM and 517 00:38:01,040 --> 00:38:05,680 Speaker 3: so on. But we haven't talked about is US Geological Survey, 518 00:38:06,040 --> 00:38:11,319 Speaker 3: which is a science based agency that serves a lot 519 00:38:11,360 --> 00:38:14,600 Speaker 3: of the agencies, particularly in the Department of material But actually, 520 00:38:15,320 --> 00:38:20,520 Speaker 3: I mean many different agencies in the US Geological Survey 521 00:38:21,560 --> 00:38:27,040 Speaker 3: they have a biological component, if you will, and I 522 00:38:27,160 --> 00:38:32,360 Speaker 3: understand again through some sources that have looked at the 523 00:38:32,360 --> 00:38:38,040 Speaker 3: President's budget request that zero is out all that biological 524 00:38:38,080 --> 00:38:43,160 Speaker 3: capacity of the US Geological Survey, and within that is 525 00:38:43,200 --> 00:38:45,719 Speaker 3: the Cooperative Fish and wild Life Research Units, or I'll 526 00:38:45,760 --> 00:38:49,120 Speaker 3: just call them the cooperative Research Units. I don't know 527 00:38:49,160 --> 00:38:51,439 Speaker 3: a lot of folks know about them. They've been around 528 00:38:51,520 --> 00:38:58,560 Speaker 3: since nineteen thirty four. The cooperative research units are the 529 00:38:58,600 --> 00:39:06,640 Speaker 3: cooperation between a state fish and Wildlife agency, universities, the USGS, 530 00:39:07,160 --> 00:39:10,799 Speaker 3: the Fish and Wildlife Service, and also the Wildlife Management Institute, 531 00:39:10,960 --> 00:39:13,480 Speaker 3: which is a private partner in that group. And that 532 00:39:13,920 --> 00:39:17,239 Speaker 3: I was the president of Wildlife Management Institute. I've been 533 00:39:17,280 --> 00:39:21,960 Speaker 3: involved with the cooperative research units since my PhD nineteen 534 00:39:22,640 --> 00:39:28,680 Speaker 3: eighty five or so eighty four, and those age the 535 00:39:28,680 --> 00:39:32,959 Speaker 3: cooperative research units. There's about forty of them across the country. Again, 536 00:39:32,960 --> 00:39:37,640 Speaker 3: they're affiliated with the university in the state and state 537 00:39:37,680 --> 00:39:41,000 Speaker 3: fish and wildlife agencies who have real world questions, real 538 00:39:41,040 --> 00:39:48,439 Speaker 3: world problems can go to the cooperative research unit bring 539 00:39:48,560 --> 00:39:52,479 Speaker 3: some funding to the table. The USGS pays only for 540 00:39:52,719 --> 00:39:58,000 Speaker 3: the staff the researchers in that state and typically there's 541 00:39:58,400 --> 00:40:02,520 Speaker 3: three or four leaders and assistant leaders in each one 542 00:40:02,560 --> 00:40:05,719 Speaker 3: of these co op units who have grad students who 543 00:40:05,760 --> 00:40:09,719 Speaker 3: work on all kinds of different wildlife issues. They have 544 00:40:09,800 --> 00:40:12,759 Speaker 3: expertise that some of them or many of the state 545 00:40:12,800 --> 00:40:16,200 Speaker 3: fish and wildlife agencies don't, So they get together with 546 00:40:16,320 --> 00:40:21,120 Speaker 3: the university with the cooperative research units and conduct research 547 00:40:21,760 --> 00:40:29,600 Speaker 3: on all kinds of things fisheries, on trustrial mammals. One 548 00:40:29,640 --> 00:40:32,719 Speaker 3: example probably best known right now is the Migratory Core 549 00:40:32,880 --> 00:40:37,439 Speaker 3: Big Game Migratory Corridor that was driven primarily through the 550 00:40:37,480 --> 00:40:43,120 Speaker 3: Wyoming Cooperative Research Unit Matt Kaufman. There. That work probably 551 00:40:43,200 --> 00:40:47,120 Speaker 3: could never have gotten done by an individual state. They're 552 00:40:47,400 --> 00:40:51,719 Speaker 3: critical to state fish and wildlife agencies. The demand for 553 00:40:51,880 --> 00:40:55,640 Speaker 3: additional cooperative research units is out there. There's other states. 554 00:40:55,840 --> 00:41:00,840 Speaker 3: There's ten or so states that don't have cooperate research units, 555 00:41:00,840 --> 00:41:03,880 Speaker 3: and many of them, you know, just anxious to get that. 556 00:41:04,480 --> 00:41:08,000 Speaker 3: So they're the guys that do the research that answers 557 00:41:08,080 --> 00:41:12,040 Speaker 3: real world questions the state agencies can't do on their own. 558 00:41:12,600 --> 00:41:19,120 Speaker 3: If they are eliminated, that research ability will will be gone. 559 00:41:19,440 --> 00:41:23,120 Speaker 3: I mean, there's nobody else that can provide that right now, 560 00:41:24,000 --> 00:41:27,160 Speaker 3: and it's a cost effective program. These guys that are 561 00:41:27,200 --> 00:41:30,680 Speaker 3: the men and women that are unit leaders and assistant 562 00:41:31,120 --> 00:41:36,759 Speaker 3: unit leaders train hundreds of grad students every year. Those 563 00:41:36,800 --> 00:41:41,239 Speaker 3: grad students go on, you know, to all kinds of positions. 564 00:41:41,960 --> 00:41:44,560 Speaker 3: I've been both the student of the cooperative research unit. 565 00:41:45,200 --> 00:41:49,120 Speaker 3: I've interacted three state fish and wildlife agencies with cooperative 566 00:41:49,160 --> 00:41:53,120 Speaker 3: research units. They are essential to fish and wildlife conservation 567 00:41:53,239 --> 00:41:57,879 Speaker 3: in this country. They do their work again, effectively, efficiently, 568 00:41:58,760 --> 00:42:03,400 Speaker 3: and if the President's budget request goes through as planned, 569 00:42:04,520 --> 00:42:08,720 Speaker 3: they will cease to exist, leaving a gaping hole again 570 00:42:08,960 --> 00:42:12,879 Speaker 3: in a history that started back in nineteen thirty four 571 00:42:13,800 --> 00:42:18,840 Speaker 3: and here we are in twenty twenty five. And you know, 572 00:42:18,880 --> 00:42:22,400 Speaker 3: there have been adjustments through the years, but total elimination 573 00:42:23,960 --> 00:42:26,480 Speaker 3: is something I've never heard of. It's unprecedented. 574 00:42:27,360 --> 00:42:34,799 Speaker 1: And that migration corridors are literally buzzword in conservation these 575 00:42:34,880 --> 00:42:44,160 Speaker 1: days because of that research, right, connectivity migration corridors and honestly, 576 00:42:44,200 --> 00:42:45,839 Speaker 1: like wildlife overpasses too. 577 00:42:46,800 --> 00:42:50,440 Speaker 3: Yeah, and here's the thing that is even more puzzling. 578 00:42:51,520 --> 00:42:55,239 Speaker 3: Based on that research, in the first Trump administration, they 579 00:42:55,239 --> 00:43:02,200 Speaker 3: came out with an executive order secretary order that provided 580 00:43:02,480 --> 00:43:06,080 Speaker 3: a lot of funding and tremendous work was done. 581 00:43:06,280 --> 00:43:08,960 Speaker 1: Well yeah, right, Ryan Zink right here in Montana, right, 582 00:43:09,000 --> 00:43:11,240 Speaker 1: he was migration corridor champion. 583 00:43:11,840 --> 00:43:14,560 Speaker 3: Yeah, and he was, and he helped push that through. 584 00:43:14,600 --> 00:43:17,479 Speaker 3: And a good friend of mine, Casey Stembler, we played 585 00:43:17,480 --> 00:43:18,080 Speaker 3: a huge role. 586 00:43:18,239 --> 00:43:18,439 Speaker 2: Yeah. 587 00:43:19,960 --> 00:43:24,160 Speaker 3: Uh, you know, and and to see that work undone, 588 00:43:25,560 --> 00:43:28,359 Speaker 3: it boggles my mind. I mean, and in the Trump 589 00:43:28,400 --> 00:43:30,640 Speaker 3: administration to be fair, in the first round, I mean, 590 00:43:31,160 --> 00:43:35,560 Speaker 3: the you know, Great America Now Doors Act, the migrant 591 00:43:35,640 --> 00:43:38,080 Speaker 3: migration corridors, there was a lot of good work done 592 00:43:38,080 --> 00:43:43,520 Speaker 3: for concertiation. But this just seems like a different animal, 593 00:43:44,280 --> 00:43:47,640 Speaker 3: a different situation we're dealing with. And you know, we 594 00:43:47,719 --> 00:43:51,839 Speaker 3: talked about instead of putting folks in the regions to 595 00:43:51,840 --> 00:43:56,880 Speaker 3: to you know, to deal with those regional issues, collapsing 596 00:43:56,920 --> 00:43:59,600 Speaker 3: them to d C, some of those functions to d C. 597 00:44:00,920 --> 00:44:04,320 Speaker 3: It seems to be contrary to some of the success 598 00:44:04,400 --> 00:44:07,200 Speaker 3: that we, you know, we saw on the first Trump administration. 599 00:44:08,200 --> 00:44:11,840 Speaker 1: Yeah, again, starting with the with local input on the 600 00:44:11,840 --> 00:44:16,080 Speaker 1: local level exactly, and then finding that that support at 601 00:44:16,080 --> 00:44:20,400 Speaker 1: the federal level to implement the good ideas coming off. 602 00:44:20,960 --> 00:44:22,000 Speaker 2: From the ground. 603 00:44:22,920 --> 00:44:27,040 Speaker 1: Yes, yeah, what was the executive order, the Migration Quarter 604 00:44:27,200 --> 00:44:33,040 Speaker 1: executive order that that Casey worked on five five three something. 605 00:44:33,120 --> 00:44:37,640 Speaker 3: Well, now you're putting me on yeah, it was three 606 00:44:37,920 --> 00:44:39,040 Speaker 3: three three zero five. 607 00:44:39,080 --> 00:44:39,520 Speaker 2: I don't know. 608 00:44:39,520 --> 00:44:42,640 Speaker 1: I have to look at three seven nine, So I 609 00:44:42,680 --> 00:44:44,200 Speaker 1: don't know, you can. 610 00:44:45,680 --> 00:44:46,279 Speaker 2: I don't know. 611 00:44:46,600 --> 00:44:49,440 Speaker 3: All I know. All I know is it was effective 612 00:44:49,480 --> 00:44:51,680 Speaker 3: and it really and it's really working well. 613 00:44:52,320 --> 00:44:57,320 Speaker 1: Yeah, I brought money on the ground and just as important, 614 00:44:57,360 --> 00:44:58,960 Speaker 1: it put a big spotlight on. 615 00:45:00,840 --> 00:45:02,280 Speaker 2: The need and the issue. 616 00:45:03,200 --> 00:45:06,200 Speaker 1: And the need and the issue wouldn't have been there 617 00:45:06,280 --> 00:45:08,600 Speaker 1: without the research exactly. 618 00:45:09,239 --> 00:45:11,399 Speaker 2: You know, I really hold out. 619 00:45:11,680 --> 00:45:14,160 Speaker 3: I hate to be a total pessimist, and I'm not 620 00:45:14,200 --> 00:45:17,319 Speaker 3: a chicken little guy. I really hold out a lot 621 00:45:17,360 --> 00:45:22,480 Speaker 3: of hope that you know, in time and shortly, the administration, 622 00:45:22,680 --> 00:45:26,320 Speaker 3: you know, hears from folks that you know, are sharing 623 00:45:26,360 --> 00:45:29,640 Speaker 3: some of the concerns that I have. I know that 624 00:45:29,640 --> 00:45:35,440 Speaker 3: that Donald Trump Junior in the first Trump administration, you know, 625 00:45:35,520 --> 00:45:39,600 Speaker 3: got involved in some of these conservation issues and influenced 626 00:45:39,640 --> 00:45:45,600 Speaker 3: decisions that we're very positive for conservation. You know. I 627 00:45:46,440 --> 00:45:49,680 Speaker 3: hope that you know, he might be able to I 628 00:45:50,280 --> 00:45:53,120 Speaker 3: know he can understand. I hope I have some opportunity 629 00:45:53,440 --> 00:45:56,279 Speaker 3: to provide some influence. I mean, he obviously is is 630 00:45:56,800 --> 00:46:00,120 Speaker 3: you know a big hunter and angler himself, who's done 631 00:46:00,000 --> 00:46:01,680 Speaker 3: one of the kinds of things that you and I do, 632 00:46:02,400 --> 00:46:06,279 Speaker 3: and sees some of the best intentions, you know, end 633 00:46:06,360 --> 00:46:11,440 Speaker 3: up wrong with unintended consequences. And the speed at which 634 00:46:12,600 --> 00:46:16,680 Speaker 3: this progress, if you will, is going on is what 635 00:46:16,800 --> 00:46:20,640 Speaker 3: really concerns me. And you know, I hope at some point, 636 00:46:20,880 --> 00:46:23,319 Speaker 3: you know, perhaps he could be a major influence in 637 00:46:23,360 --> 00:46:26,879 Speaker 3: the administration, and I know he can. I'm not sure 638 00:46:26,880 --> 00:46:28,560 Speaker 3: that he you know, he's aware of all this stuff 639 00:46:28,560 --> 00:46:31,040 Speaker 3: because it's fast moving and a lot of it's in 640 00:46:31,080 --> 00:46:35,120 Speaker 3: the weeds, and it takes people with decades of experience 641 00:46:35,160 --> 00:46:38,319 Speaker 3: to kind of look through and say, Okay, I do 642 00:46:38,440 --> 00:46:40,800 Speaker 3: understand what they're trying to do, and I'm very supportive 643 00:46:40,800 --> 00:46:44,200 Speaker 3: of that, but I have concerns about the way it's 644 00:46:44,239 --> 00:46:50,200 Speaker 3: being done. You know, status quo is you're falling behind 645 00:46:50,239 --> 00:46:53,279 Speaker 3: if you're sticking with the status quo. But the only 646 00:46:53,320 --> 00:46:56,560 Speaker 3: way to move forward is if you have a path forward, 647 00:46:56,960 --> 00:47:01,920 Speaker 3: a well thought out plan with input from everybody. And 648 00:47:01,960 --> 00:47:04,160 Speaker 3: you know, that's the way to make changes, in my opinion, 649 00:47:04,880 --> 00:47:09,000 Speaker 3: not you know, just just based on numbers, how many dollars, 650 00:47:09,000 --> 00:47:13,279 Speaker 3: how many people can we cut and eliminate that's not 651 00:47:13,400 --> 00:47:17,400 Speaker 3: going to make an effective government. It's much more detailed 652 00:47:17,440 --> 00:47:17,759 Speaker 3: than that. 653 00:47:18,640 --> 00:47:21,120 Speaker 1: Well, you know, we certainly used to say all the 654 00:47:21,160 --> 00:47:23,880 Speaker 1: time that I think when we would talk about like 655 00:47:23,920 --> 00:47:31,360 Speaker 1: the greatest threats, my answer was always apathy. Hunters and 656 00:47:31,400 --> 00:47:36,759 Speaker 1: anglers are fantastic people. That's certainly who I choose to 657 00:47:36,760 --> 00:47:41,000 Speaker 1: spend my time with, but often times they don't get 658 00:47:41,080 --> 00:47:44,600 Speaker 1: motivated until there's a direct threat in their backyard. And 659 00:47:45,160 --> 00:47:51,000 Speaker 1: I think speed at which this administration is moving the 660 00:47:51,239 --> 00:47:59,080 Speaker 1: party politics, being so divisive through the campaign process has 661 00:47:59,239 --> 00:48:02,399 Speaker 1: put people all on their heels a little bit, and 662 00:48:03,719 --> 00:48:07,560 Speaker 1: we just need to remind them that just as you said, 663 00:48:08,040 --> 00:48:10,520 Speaker 1: you can say, hey, I love the intention here, but 664 00:48:11,960 --> 00:48:14,799 Speaker 1: this stuff's really important to me, and we need to 665 00:48:14,920 --> 00:48:20,400 Speaker 1: use the scalpel, not not the machete approach or however 666 00:48:20,440 --> 00:48:23,480 Speaker 1: you want to spin it, because you know that there 667 00:48:23,520 --> 00:48:30,520 Speaker 1: are some very real consequences to losing funding and personnel 668 00:48:31,480 --> 00:48:34,160 Speaker 1: in some of these areas, for you know, the the 669 00:48:34,239 --> 00:48:35,040 Speaker 1: hunter and angler. 670 00:48:35,280 --> 00:48:38,960 Speaker 3: So yeah, I'm doing the machine that got us here 671 00:48:39,040 --> 00:48:42,000 Speaker 3: where we are today, the conservation machine. I'm dooing that 672 00:48:43,320 --> 00:48:48,279 Speaker 3: without careful thought and planning is my greatest concern and 673 00:48:49,000 --> 00:48:54,760 Speaker 3: you know, not just mine selfishly, but again for my kids, 674 00:48:55,000 --> 00:48:58,320 Speaker 3: for my grandkids who fish on hunt. I hate to say, 675 00:48:58,920 --> 00:49:01,879 Speaker 3: you know, ten years down the road to my grandkids, 676 00:49:01,920 --> 00:49:05,520 Speaker 3: that all the glory days were ten years ago in 677 00:49:05,560 --> 00:49:08,760 Speaker 3: twenty twenty five, and then things changed. And I'm sorry 678 00:49:08,840 --> 00:49:12,239 Speaker 3: that you don't have the opportunity, you don't have the habitats. 679 00:49:13,200 --> 00:49:17,799 Speaker 3: You know, you don't have the science behind wildlife conservation 680 00:49:18,040 --> 00:49:23,400 Speaker 3: like I did during my career, and that thought is 681 00:49:23,480 --> 00:49:24,520 Speaker 3: really depressing to me. 682 00:49:25,120 --> 00:49:27,960 Speaker 1: And it is, it is, And I think there's a 683 00:49:28,000 --> 00:49:29,799 Speaker 1: heck of a lot of hunters and anglers out there 684 00:49:30,239 --> 00:49:34,600 Speaker 1: that know the very real feeling of pointing to a 685 00:49:34,640 --> 00:49:36,960 Speaker 1: spot where they caught a big fish or killed a 686 00:49:36,960 --> 00:49:42,040 Speaker 1: big buck or whatever, and now it's a house or 687 00:49:42,760 --> 00:49:45,080 Speaker 1: the access has been closed off, right Like, we all 688 00:49:45,120 --> 00:49:50,520 Speaker 1: have those experiences and have told those stories on occasion, 689 00:49:51,320 --> 00:49:57,480 Speaker 1: so we know that's real. And I am very confident 690 00:49:57,600 --> 00:50:02,920 Speaker 1: in the fact that this audience UH is well motivated 691 00:50:03,280 --> 00:50:09,360 Speaker 1: and they can call and write and advocate for themselves 692 00:50:09,440 --> 00:50:12,279 Speaker 1: and their pursuits and their their love and appreciation for 693 00:50:12,360 --> 00:50:16,760 Speaker 1: these landscapes and these animals as well, right So, and 694 00:50:16,800 --> 00:50:20,600 Speaker 1: I think that can and should go hand in hand 695 00:50:20,640 --> 00:50:24,480 Speaker 1: with with running our government in a in a good way. 696 00:50:24,600 --> 00:50:29,640 Speaker 3: So yeah, and I and you're right, it's the folks 697 00:50:29,760 --> 00:50:32,080 Speaker 3: listening to this podcast that can make a difference. 698 00:50:33,040 --> 00:50:33,239 Speaker 1: Uh. 699 00:50:33,280 --> 00:50:34,920 Speaker 3: And I go even further and say they have a 700 00:50:34,960 --> 00:50:40,880 Speaker 3: responsibility to do that. They've enjoyed so much and future 701 00:50:40,920 --> 00:50:45,560 Speaker 3: generations deserve to have what we've had are better. So 702 00:50:45,840 --> 00:50:50,120 Speaker 3: the responsibility relies with all of us right now to say, hey, 703 00:50:50,560 --> 00:50:53,680 Speaker 3: let's just pause from it, figure out how to do 704 00:50:53,719 --> 00:50:56,960 Speaker 3: this in the right way, make government more efficient, get 705 00:50:57,000 --> 00:51:00,440 Speaker 3: rid of waste, fraud, in abuse. But let's do it 706 00:51:00,520 --> 00:51:03,239 Speaker 3: in a careful plan way, the same way that we've 707 00:51:03,280 --> 00:51:07,040 Speaker 3: had the conservation successes of today. It hasn't been a 708 00:51:07,120 --> 00:51:10,279 Speaker 3: hurcy jerky you know, try this, try that. It's been 709 00:51:10,280 --> 00:51:13,600 Speaker 3: done through a you know, a careful, carefully thought out 710 00:51:13,760 --> 00:51:20,040 Speaker 3: scientific method, you know, trial error, learn from mistakes, reevaluate 711 00:51:20,080 --> 00:51:22,759 Speaker 3: what you're doing. And that's how we've got to where 712 00:51:22,760 --> 00:51:27,360 Speaker 3: we are today. And the folks listen to this, you know, 713 00:51:27,640 --> 00:51:33,560 Speaker 3: they know their legislative of folks in there where they live, 714 00:51:34,680 --> 00:51:38,440 Speaker 3: and I would just ask them to reach out and 715 00:51:38,480 --> 00:51:40,600 Speaker 3: say this stuff is important to me, Please keep an 716 00:51:40,640 --> 00:51:44,560 Speaker 3: eye on it. You know, and let's don't ruin the 717 00:51:44,600 --> 00:51:47,120 Speaker 3: future for my kids and my grandkids. Because I've had 718 00:51:47,120 --> 00:51:51,440 Speaker 3: a great career hunting fishing and it's so important to 719 00:51:51,480 --> 00:51:56,040 Speaker 3: my quality of life. I just fear for the future. 720 00:51:56,120 --> 00:51:58,879 Speaker 3: I really do. I mean, I'm sixty eight. Who knows 721 00:51:58,920 --> 00:52:00,920 Speaker 3: how long I'll be hunting as long as I can, 722 00:52:02,080 --> 00:52:03,600 Speaker 3: so I'm trying to do what I can do. I've 723 00:52:03,640 --> 00:52:05,640 Speaker 3: tried to do what I could do af throughout my career. 724 00:52:06,160 --> 00:52:08,480 Speaker 3: So it's up to everybody else and me and everybody 725 00:52:08,520 --> 00:52:12,160 Speaker 3: else to affect change the way the way. 726 00:52:12,000 --> 00:52:15,760 Speaker 2: That makes sense, darn right, darn right. 727 00:52:15,880 --> 00:52:19,080 Speaker 3: And Kyle, I'll say, I really appreciate you guys getting 728 00:52:19,120 --> 00:52:21,880 Speaker 3: this out because a lot of folks don't know how 729 00:52:21,920 --> 00:52:25,200 Speaker 3: would they know this, you know, without podcasts like yours 730 00:52:25,719 --> 00:52:28,920 Speaker 3: that really double into the issues. And I hope and 731 00:52:29,000 --> 00:52:31,319 Speaker 3: I know people will be better informed and they'll make 732 00:52:31,960 --> 00:52:34,759 Speaker 3: better decisions because of the work you guys do. They're 733 00:52:34,760 --> 00:52:37,840 Speaker 3: a meat eat or getting a word out and and 734 00:52:37,960 --> 00:52:41,920 Speaker 3: you know on some stuff that's that's pretty complicated, pretty complex, 735 00:52:42,719 --> 00:52:45,920 Speaker 3: but we all share the same thing, you know, and 736 00:52:46,000 --> 00:52:48,040 Speaker 3: that's a better future for hunting and fishing. 737 00:52:49,040 --> 00:52:54,600 Speaker 1: Absolutely well. I appreciate your service there, Steve. This has 738 00:52:54,640 --> 00:52:58,680 Speaker 1: been Steve Williams with formerly the US Fish and Wildlife 739 00:52:58,719 --> 00:53:03,400 Speaker 1: Service Director and George W. And I'm gracious enough to 740 00:53:03,680 --> 00:53:09,080 Speaker 1: hop on and share some experience and thoughts regarding some 741 00:53:09,200 --> 00:53:13,200 Speaker 1: of the changes that are real and potential that we're 742 00:53:13,400 --> 00:53:17,799 Speaker 1: seeing today. So thank you very much, Steve, and I 743 00:53:17,840 --> 00:53:23,880 Speaker 1: think our takeaway as or usual right is, at a minimum, 744 00:53:24,520 --> 00:53:27,960 Speaker 1: get to know your elected officials as well as their 745 00:53:27,960 --> 00:53:31,960 Speaker 1: staff call right email and let them know that, hey, 746 00:53:32,000 --> 00:53:34,880 Speaker 1: this stuff is important to you, and so much so 747 00:53:35,040 --> 00:53:36,799 Speaker 1: that you need to make sure it's around for the 748 00:53:36,800 --> 00:53:41,560 Speaker 1: next generation. If you have any questions for Steve Williams, 749 00:53:41,800 --> 00:53:44,359 Speaker 1: please write into a s k C A L. That's 750 00:53:44,440 --> 00:53:47,000 Speaker 1: ask heal at the meeteater dot com and we'll either 751 00:53:47,000 --> 00:53:50,279 Speaker 1: get him back on or we'll ask him and let 752 00:53:50,320 --> 00:53:52,800 Speaker 1: you know on the podcast. Thanks again, we'll talk to 753 00:53:52,800 --> 00:53:53,440 Speaker 1: you next week. 754 00:53:53,680 --> 00:54:03,360 Speaker 3: Thank you, Ca, it's been a pleasure. En Aten D