WEBVTT - Cookie Crumb Day 0:00:04.519 --> 0:00:09.440 Karma can be a bit. When you spend your entire 0:00:09.560 --> 0:00:14.480 life cheating, stealing, destroying lives, gloom and doom is bound 0:00:14.520 --> 0:00:18.840 to come back at you tenfold. So when a guy 0:00:18.920 --> 0:00:22.759 like Ron Thomas is found dead, the lists of suspects 0:00:22.920 --> 0:00:26.200 may at first appear endless. Yet when you look at 0:00:26.239 --> 0:00:28.920 the context of the murder, there were only a few 0:00:28.960 --> 0:00:32.600 people who would benefit from Ron's death. One person who 0:00:32.600 --> 0:00:35.879 immediately comes to minds Dick Weston. It would not be 0:00:35.960 --> 0:00:38.600 unimaginable to think the guy who has to spend the 0:00:38.600 --> 0:00:41.680 rest of his life in prison would want some retribution 0:00:42.040 --> 0:00:47.279 against the mastermind walked free. As Detective Tom Cooper tells me, 0:00:47.520 --> 0:00:50.320 even though Dick Weston was locked up, the guy was 0:00:50.440 --> 0:00:53.840 known to have ties to the outside. I'm sure he 0:00:53.880 --> 0:00:57.920 had connections through the prison system because he was spending 0:00:57.920 --> 0:01:00.920 his time down terror hate be for spending the rest 0:01:00.920 --> 0:01:05.280 of his days serving four consecutive life sentences. Dick Weston 0:01:05.760 --> 0:01:08.600 had the first complete the federal government's twenty five years 0:01:08.640 --> 0:01:12.880 sentence at the prison in Tara Hape, Indiana, and he 0:01:12.959 --> 0:01:16.800 was supposed to come to us after they never got 0:01:16.800 --> 0:01:20.480 to us. The theories of Dick Weston taking out a 0:01:20.560 --> 0:01:26.080 hit on. Ron Thomas ended in when Dick suffered a 0:01:26.080 --> 0:01:40.080 massive heart attack and died in prison. Previously on Paper Ghosts, 0:01:40.880 --> 0:01:42.360 and we come to a kind of like a dead end, 0:01:42.959 --> 0:01:45.200 and we spent around and guess who was behind me? 0:01:45.840 --> 0:01:50.559 Ron Thomas. He had followed me. He had literally turned 0:01:50.560 --> 0:01:55.080 around and followed me down the steps. You don't know 0:01:55.080 --> 0:01:57.440 where if you lay down to take a nap or 0:01:57.520 --> 0:02:00.120 lay down good to street where you going like up 0:02:00.200 --> 0:02:03.520 or not? You don't know where your kids just gonna 0:02:03.520 --> 0:02:06.840 be where you left him or not not With everything 0:02:06.880 --> 0:02:10.360 that was going on, and I'm convinced that he knew 0:02:11.160 --> 0:02:14.639 his killer. There was no struggle in the home, and 0:02:14.680 --> 0:02:18.959 it didn't appear to be My name is m William Phelps. 0:02:19.400 --> 0:02:23.040 I'm an investigative journalist and author of forty four true 0:02:23.120 --> 0:02:28.400 crime books. This is season two of Paper Ghosts. Burned. 0:02:40.000 --> 0:02:43.480 With any question of the mafia's involvement or Dick Weston's 0:02:43.520 --> 0:02:47.240 attempt at retaliation now off the table, the pool of 0:02:47.320 --> 0:02:51.200 people who could have killed Ron Thomas was shrinking. Those 0:02:51.280 --> 0:02:56.760 involved have their theories, as do I. It's been sometime 0:02:56.840 --> 0:02:59.359 since I last spoke with Carol Thompson, the daughter of 0:02:59.520 --> 0:03:03.760 victims Linda and Billy Stevenson. After hearing her admit that 0:03:03.800 --> 0:03:06.440 she wanted to shoot Ron tom is dead on the 0:03:06.480 --> 0:03:09.760 courthouse steps, and now learning that a potential hit was 0:03:09.800 --> 0:03:12.960 put out on Ron, I needed to call Carol and 0:03:13.000 --> 0:03:19.280 asked the obvious question, So knowing what happens to Ron later, 0:03:19.400 --> 0:03:22.600 I mean, a fair question is because it's an unsolved case, 0:03:22.760 --> 0:03:28.440 did you kill Ron? No? No, I did not. I um, 0:03:28.480 --> 0:03:30.880 you know, I understand, I understand you're asking that question 0:03:30.919 --> 0:03:34.239 to me. That doesn't even enough an me. I've never 0:03:34.280 --> 0:03:36.840 I didn't understand at the time why the police didn't 0:03:36.880 --> 0:03:41.120 contact me earlier. You know, this piece of information has 0:03:41.160 --> 0:03:45.000 always surprised me. For as diligent and tenacious as the 0:03:45.040 --> 0:03:48.920 Claremont County Sheriff's Department and FBI were in investigating the 0:03:48.960 --> 0:03:52.280 Stevenson case, It's bizarre why no one in law enforcement 0:03:52.600 --> 0:03:56.160 thought to question the surviving family member who made no 0:03:56.360 --> 0:04:03.640 secret wanting to kill Ron Thomas. No one contacted you, no, no, 0:04:03.760 --> 0:04:06.880 no no. I was laying at Baud asleep and it 0:04:06.920 --> 0:04:08.800 was about I was two in the morning or something, 0:04:08.840 --> 0:04:11.440 and my phone rang and it was my daughter, you know, 0:04:11.480 --> 0:04:14.280 my oldest daughter, Shannon, and uh, she said to me 0:04:14.440 --> 0:04:16.280 and her mom, you need to wake up, Like I 0:04:16.400 --> 0:04:19.360 say somethinghere, this very important. And I'm like, she's two 0:04:19.360 --> 0:04:20.839 three in the morning or something. She's like, gets to 0:04:20.920 --> 0:04:24.360 your computer. Go to your computer now. She immediately, uh 0:04:24.560 --> 0:04:26.200 sent me a link and I click the link and 0:04:26.200 --> 0:04:31.479 it talked about, you know, this cold case murder of 0:04:31.720 --> 0:04:35.599 Ronald Thomas. And I'm like, this can't be the same this, 0:04:35.600 --> 0:04:37.640 this can't you know, I mean, come on, I'm blown away. 0:04:37.640 --> 0:04:43.760 He's murdered. So I did call the the policeman over 0:04:43.800 --> 0:04:47.360 the cold case. Carol spoke with Dave Bell, the former 0:04:47.400 --> 0:04:51.720 South Carolina detective who you've heard in the last few episodes. 0:04:52.520 --> 0:04:55.039 I was about to be very, very happy, and but 0:04:55.360 --> 0:04:57.080 he's know for sure, you know, it was the right guy. 0:04:57.160 --> 0:05:00.560 And so I asked him, I, you know, I need 0:05:00.560 --> 0:05:03.359 to confirm that this is you know, the same wrong 0:05:03.560 --> 0:05:07.320 from you know Berkfield. And his answer surprised me because 0:05:07.320 --> 0:05:11.159 he said, um, something the effect of, if you're referring 0:05:11.160 --> 0:05:15.000 to the man who was in some ways linked to 0:05:15.800 --> 0:05:19.560 the Stevenson murder in Bethel, Ohio, then yes, this is 0:05:19.600 --> 0:05:22.919 the same man. I said him right away. You know, 0:05:23.480 --> 0:05:26.840 I'm shocked. Why didn't you know. I'm I'm surprised, you know, 0:05:26.880 --> 0:05:28.719 I wanted demand dead. I'm surprised thatybody called me. You know, 0:05:28.760 --> 0:05:32.320 this is a cold case. I'm shocked. And he kind 0:05:32.320 --> 0:05:33.800 of he kind of chuckled, and he said, you know, 0:05:34.000 --> 0:05:36.760 you know, Caroline's done. I understand that. He said, so 0:05:36.880 --> 0:05:38.480 let me ask you a question. And I said, what's that? 0:05:38.480 --> 0:05:41.960 And he said, did you murder wrong pass? And I said, 0:05:42.200 --> 0:05:45.240 absolutely not. But if you find out who did, let 0:05:45.240 --> 0:05:47.279 me know. I would like to send them some cookies 0:05:47.279 --> 0:05:49.640 and flowers and anything else they might need. And I 0:05:49.839 --> 0:05:53.360 wanted to thank them. My fear was, you know, this 0:05:53.480 --> 0:05:55.480 wasn't a man that was gonna stop if he saw 0:05:55.600 --> 0:05:58.640 money in the future. It wouldn't matter if it was 0:05:58.640 --> 0:06:01.360 a one year old, you know, hate hap kill him. 0:06:02.320 --> 0:06:18.039 I didn't want anybody else to get through it. There 0:06:18.040 --> 0:06:24.640 are three fundamental motivations behind murder. Love, money, revenge under 0:06:24.680 --> 0:06:30.159 the money umbrella. Greed factors into about homicides in this country. 0:06:30.640 --> 0:06:35.919 According to experts and crime statisticians, It's clear to me 0:06:36.000 --> 0:06:39.640 Carol Thompson did not kill Ron Thomas. I am certain 0:06:39.680 --> 0:06:43.200 she can be ruled out as a suspect, but there 0:06:43.279 --> 0:06:46.320 is one other person who had a solid motive to 0:06:46.400 --> 0:06:50.279 want Ron dead. In the eyes of Dave Bell, who 0:06:50.279 --> 0:06:53.760 took up Ron Thomas's homicide case in the early two thousand's, 0:06:54.760 --> 0:06:59.760 history seemed to be repeating itself. You know what what 0:07:00.160 --> 0:07:05.120 when we first looked into run Ron's death, we we 0:07:05.120 --> 0:07:08.760 we looked at his wife as a suspect, Irene in 0:07:08.839 --> 0:07:13.120 his in his murder. It didn't take long to realize that, yes, 0:07:13.200 --> 0:07:16.000 you are number one suspect in his murder because of 0:07:16.040 --> 0:07:19.840 the pattern that she had and uh in her first 0:07:19.880 --> 0:07:26.400 and second husband's untimely death. Looking back, Irene's first husband 0:07:26.520 --> 0:07:30.040 was accidentally killed by a train while trying to outrun 0:07:30.160 --> 0:07:35.840 cops after a domestic dispute. Her second husband was severely beaten, survived, 0:07:36.400 --> 0:07:40.280 but then reportedly committed suicide by firing a shotgun with 0:07:40.400 --> 0:07:45.840 his paralyzed toe. Now Irene's third husband has been murdered 0:07:46.280 --> 0:07:50.680 while sitting in his living room waiting for someone. If 0:07:50.680 --> 0:07:54.760 there's one axiom good investigators rely on, it's that previous 0:07:54.800 --> 0:07:59.920 behavior as an indicative predictor of future behavior. Because, similar 0:07:59.920 --> 0:08:02.120 to what happened the last time I hit was put 0:08:02.160 --> 0:08:05.600 out on one of her husband's Irene was conveniently far 0:08:05.680 --> 0:08:08.960 away from the crime scene when Ron Thomas was killed, 0:08:09.760 --> 0:08:13.960 and of course you know, Irene left Ron home by 0:08:14.000 --> 0:08:17.320 himself to give herself an alibi. Uh so, But when 0:08:17.360 --> 0:08:20.880 she could be home and found Ron murdered and called 0:08:22.200 --> 0:08:27.760 one the investigator where he arrived and started talking to 0:08:27.800 --> 0:08:34.960 her the crime scene and asking her questions. She stopped 0:08:35.000 --> 0:08:38.880 him at one point and says, well, do I need 0:08:38.880 --> 0:08:45.600 an attorney? And the investigator I don't know. Do you 0:08:45.679 --> 0:08:49.360 think you need an attorney? And as soon as he 0:08:49.440 --> 0:08:52.440 said that, she said, I'm not gonna say no more, 0:08:52.440 --> 0:08:57.319 hour on my attorney. Most people whose significant other has 0:08:57.400 --> 0:09:01.199 just been found murdered are usually beside themselves, stricken by 0:09:01.280 --> 0:09:05.920 shock and sorrow. They can react in unexpected ways, yet 0:09:06.000 --> 0:09:09.679 predictable under the banner of acute emotional pain that generally 0:09:09.720 --> 0:09:16.120 accompanies shocking loss. If Irene's reaction wasn't suspicious enough, what 0:09:16.280 --> 0:09:19.679 she did in the weeks before Ron Thomas's murder more 0:09:19.800 --> 0:09:23.600 or less confirmed her involvement. The funny thing I found 0:09:23.600 --> 0:09:28.920 out was I thought really unique, was Irene had taken 0:09:29.280 --> 0:09:32.880 a big insurance policy had on him, like a hundred 0:09:32.880 --> 0:09:36.800 and fifty tho dollar insurance policy had on Run, and 0:09:37.160 --> 0:09:42.360 a month before Run is murdered, she calls the insurance 0:09:42.360 --> 0:09:46.680 her insurance agent who she's had for years, and asked 0:09:46.720 --> 0:09:51.920 the insurance agent that if if Ron would would just 0:09:52.000 --> 0:09:55.480 so happened to be a shot in the death, which 0:09:55.559 --> 0:09:58.160 she still gets the hundred fifty thou dollars if he 0:09:58.280 --> 0:10:01.640 died in that matter in the in the insurance agent 0:10:01.880 --> 0:10:05.720 actually told, oh, yeah, sure you will. You know now, 0:10:05.840 --> 0:10:10.040 if that's not suspicious, I don't know what is. It 0:10:10.160 --> 0:10:13.760 was actually three hundred thousand dollars in life insurance that 0:10:13.840 --> 0:10:19.160 Irene ended up collecting after Ron Thomas's murder, a considerable 0:10:19.280 --> 0:10:22.600 bump from the ninety thousand she pocketed after her second 0:10:22.679 --> 0:10:28.359 husband's suicide, and a seemingly larger increase from the undisclosed 0:10:28.400 --> 0:10:32.600 sum she made from her first husband's untimely death. Well, 0:10:32.679 --> 0:10:35.720 she got that all that big self clumps of money 0:10:35.800 --> 0:10:41.280 because of her behavior and her decisions. Then that showed 0:10:41.280 --> 0:10:46.040 her out easy. She get money with the insurance, and 0:10:46.120 --> 0:10:48.520 that plan of that seat in her brain is That's 0:10:48.520 --> 0:10:52.160 what I'm thinking with Ron Thomas. Do you think she 0:10:52.280 --> 0:10:57.440 hired somebody or I think she promised somebody? Yeah, I 0:10:57.480 --> 0:11:02.000 think she promised somebody some of the insurance money once 0:11:02.040 --> 0:11:05.559 he was murdered. Is it possible that Ron could have 0:11:05.640 --> 0:11:09.640 been killed by someone Dick Weston sent there because Ron 0:11:09.720 --> 0:11:15.600 got away from being charged in the in Stevenson murders. Uh, well, 0:11:15.640 --> 0:11:20.040 you know, I would say, I'd say it would be 0:11:20.080 --> 0:11:25.200 more weld than likely. What Irene. The name David Bell 0:11:25.320 --> 0:11:29.079 mentioned seems to come out of nowhere. It's someone close 0:11:29.160 --> 0:11:32.599 to Irene who was never named in any official documents. 0:11:33.400 --> 0:11:36.760 I trust Bell's investigation in the off the record information 0:11:36.880 --> 0:11:39.920 has provided me. This is why giving cold cases a 0:11:40.000 --> 0:11:44.520 second look is so crucial. Detective Bell stepped in with 0:11:44.559 --> 0:11:47.000 a new set of eyes, a new way of looking 0:11:47.080 --> 0:11:50.760 at things. It's these reasons why the name he mentions. 0:11:51.320 --> 0:11:54.199 It's credible to me. I got a written statement from 0:11:54.200 --> 0:11:57.600 a guy who said that his former wife was a 0:11:57.600 --> 0:12:00.599 friend of Irene's and it was his understanding and that 0:12:01.000 --> 0:12:05.000 I read killed William Floyd. If so, if he would 0:12:05.080 --> 0:12:09.640 kill William Floyd, he sure killed Ron Thomas. Why would 0:12:09.679 --> 0:12:12.720 this person carry out such a heinous act for someone 0:12:12.800 --> 0:12:16.800 like Irene knowing her pension for cashing in on insurance 0:12:16.840 --> 0:12:20.080 money was an obvious motivating factor, as well as the 0:12:20.120 --> 0:12:23.319 common theme that connects us back to why so many 0:12:23.360 --> 0:12:28.559 people in this story have wound up dead greed, I mean, 0:12:28.640 --> 0:12:31.880 people did have set up for murder. Your husband's to 0:12:31.960 --> 0:12:35.640 be construed as a black widow. I will admit that 0:12:35.760 --> 0:12:39.559 her first husband was trying to She was just indirectly 0:12:39.679 --> 0:12:44.319 involved with his untimely death. She didn't plan on him 0:12:44.320 --> 0:12:47.000 trying to beat that train, you know. But I think 0:12:47.000 --> 0:12:50.360 it's I run that not only did she claim the insurance, 0:12:50.400 --> 0:12:53.880 I think she also uh found a civil suit against 0:12:53.920 --> 0:12:57.400 the train company, you know, the uh and then the 0:12:57.440 --> 0:13:02.079 same thing with the motel. She fild a civil suit 0:13:02.400 --> 0:13:07.520 for William's death. Well, she's in unders initiated, you know, 0:13:07.640 --> 0:13:10.520 and caused it. And in my opinion, I mean, I think, 0:13:10.840 --> 0:13:15.720 in fact, I think it was the FBI that Penderwood 0:13:15.760 --> 0:13:20.480 the black black woodow the title. You know, she's the 0:13:20.480 --> 0:13:24.120 one who confesses to the FBI about all this with 0:13:24.160 --> 0:13:28.440 William Floyd. As it turns out, Irene Floyd met with 0:13:28.480 --> 0:13:34.200 the FBI on three separate occasions back in Nino. She 0:13:34.320 --> 0:13:37.640 confessed her role in the near fatal beating of her 0:13:37.679 --> 0:13:42.480 second husband, William Floyd, and admitted to receiving instructions from 0:13:42.640 --> 0:13:45.720 Ron Thomas on how to tip off the assailants after 0:13:45.760 --> 0:13:49.079 she and William arrived at their motel room in Memphis. 0:13:53.160 --> 0:13:55.880 And of course, you know, she did a recamp her 0:13:55.960 --> 0:14:01.560 confessions to the FBI. She never gave uh reason why 0:14:01.600 --> 0:14:05.920 she reacan that. She just denied, uh that she ever 0:14:06.000 --> 0:14:09.720 confessed to the FBI. Of course, you know I confirmed 0:14:09.760 --> 0:14:12.880 with the FBI that she, in fact did. Irene made 0:14:12.880 --> 0:14:16.520 official statements to the FEDS. She couldn't take back what 0:14:16.679 --> 0:14:20.280 she admitted, but in a twisted bit of luck for Irene, 0:14:20.840 --> 0:14:24.560 the documents were filed away and seemingly lost within what 0:14:24.680 --> 0:14:27.760 can be an endless system of too much information and 0:14:27.800 --> 0:14:31.960 too small of a budget to hire more investigators. That 0:14:32.200 --> 0:14:36.640 is until the early two thousands, when the Richland County 0:14:36.680 --> 0:14:40.720 Sheriff's Department in South Carolina decided to reopen Ron Thomas's 0:14:40.720 --> 0:14:45.320 homicide case. After coming across Irene's damning statements as well 0:14:45.360 --> 0:14:49.200 as her lawsuit against the motel, Richland County decided there 0:14:49.240 --> 0:14:52.600 was enough evidence to charge Irene Thomas with conspiracy to 0:14:52.680 --> 0:14:56.200 commit murder in the near fatal beating of her second husband. 0:14:57.760 --> 0:15:00.840 That's when I got her indicted for or for the 0:15:00.920 --> 0:15:05.440 conspiracy to kill Bill Freud because she did all the 0:15:05.760 --> 0:15:10.880 conspiring in Columbia and Richeline County, which was our jurisdiction. 0:15:11.280 --> 0:15:14.760 Irene Thomas was arrested and detained for five days before 0:15:14.840 --> 0:15:19.360 being released on twenty five thousand dollars bail. If convicted, 0:15:19.400 --> 0:15:22.000 she would face up to five years in prison or 0:15:22.040 --> 0:15:26.200 a five thousand dollar five This shocks and disturbs me. 0:15:26.840 --> 0:15:30.480 Conspiracy to commit murder and the worst punishment is only 0:15:30.600 --> 0:15:34.000 five years in prison, of which we know will be 0:15:34.080 --> 0:15:41.720 decreased to less time. The system is broken. Did she 0:15:41.800 --> 0:15:45.480 ever do any time for that crime? Doctor? My knowledge? 0:15:45.480 --> 0:15:49.080 You know, we had a sorry excuse for a solicitor 0:15:49.160 --> 0:15:54.080 at the time, you know, a prosecutor and he uh, 0:15:54.120 --> 0:15:57.120 he wasn't real big on cold cases and trying to 0:15:57.240 --> 0:16:00.440 prosecute coal cases because he thought it would be too 0:16:00.520 --> 0:16:04.520 much effort and he was afraid of losing a cold 0:16:04.560 --> 0:16:08.440 cases are harder to approve and and not yet reelected. 0:16:08.560 --> 0:16:11.720 That was his problem, said, I understand she was never 0:16:11.760 --> 0:16:16.680 brought travel So you really believe that Irene was the 0:16:16.680 --> 0:16:19.840 one who had a hand in Ron Thomas's murder, Oh, 0:16:19.880 --> 0:16:36.960 no doubt there's no doubt in my mind to think 0:16:37.000 --> 0:16:39.640 about all the pain and suffering, not to mention the 0:16:39.760 --> 0:16:44.040 innocent lives lost at the behest of Ron Thomas, is 0:16:44.080 --> 0:16:47.800 to truly understand that a sociopath lacks the basic emotion 0:16:47.880 --> 0:16:51.560 to love, to care about people, that he puts himself 0:16:51.880 --> 0:16:56.640 as narcissist do ahead of the world. The torment Ron 0:16:56.680 --> 0:17:00.720 Thomas had planned, caused, and inflicted lasted law after he 0:17:00.840 --> 0:17:05.760 was killed. Despite Ron's death in n it would be 0:17:05.840 --> 0:17:10.160 thirteen years before Carol Thompson and her daughter Shannon would 0:17:10.280 --> 0:17:13.200 learn about the fate of the second man responsible for 0:17:13.359 --> 0:17:20.080 killing their family. Imagine over a decade and nobody called them, 0:17:20.200 --> 0:17:27.000 nobody sent the letter, nobody emit nothing. You know, this 0:17:27.040 --> 0:17:30.040 whole time, my mom's watching over her back, scared to death, 0:17:30.080 --> 0:17:33.280 her whole life, and angry and just It was about 0:17:33.320 --> 0:17:35.639 two o'clock in the morning and I remember I dropped everything. 0:17:35.640 --> 0:17:38.000 I called my mom here in Ohio, got her out 0:17:38.000 --> 0:17:39.440 of bed. I'm like, you have got to go downstairs. 0:17:39.520 --> 0:17:41.680 I have to get this to you. So she goes down, 0:17:41.760 --> 0:17:43.800 she fires up her computer and I don't tell her. 0:17:43.800 --> 0:17:47.320 I just send her the link. And oh, it was crazy, 0:17:47.359 --> 0:17:50.520 like She said, it was a bombshell. It was insane. 0:17:50.600 --> 0:17:54.200 We never imagined in a million years. After learning about 0:17:54.320 --> 0:17:56.840 Ron's death, Shannon called the prison to get an update 0:17:56.880 --> 0:17:59.480 on the other man who killed her family, Dick Weston. 0:18:00.240 --> 0:18:03.880 The prison informed her that Dick had been released. Shannon 0:18:03.920 --> 0:18:09.600 absolutely lost it. How could this be happening? The d 0:18:09.720 --> 0:18:12.720 o J ultimately called back and said they made a mistake. 0:18:13.560 --> 0:18:18.439 Dick Weston had actually died while in prison. There's no 0:18:18.520 --> 0:18:21.880 explanation for how such a mind blowing misstep like this 0:18:21.960 --> 0:18:26.399 can happen. It's a seemingly innocent mistake, but one that 0:18:26.440 --> 0:18:29.360 can set off a debilitating new wave of trauma and 0:18:29.359 --> 0:18:32.520 fear for victims families. My mom and I made a 0:18:32.520 --> 0:18:35.000 holiday of the day Rohn was murdered. I mean, it's horrible, 0:18:35.000 --> 0:18:37.240 but it's cookie crumb day. It's the day to be 0:18:37.280 --> 0:18:40.080 thankful for the little cookie crumbs that life gives you. 0:18:40.080 --> 0:18:42.320 You know that, I don't know. I just meant a 0:18:42.359 --> 0:18:46.919 lot to us. It never surprises me how victim family 0:18:46.960 --> 0:18:50.520 members react to trauma of losing someone to murder, or 0:18:50.520 --> 0:18:54.439 how victims families are treated. Each person deals with the 0:18:54.480 --> 0:18:58.359 shocking realities in their own way. I've seen this in 0:18:58.440 --> 0:19:02.360 my own family. My brother, for example, after his pregnant 0:19:02.359 --> 0:19:06.000 wife was strangled to death, spent the next several years 0:19:06.240 --> 0:19:11.439 killing himself with drugs and alcohol. He succeeded. So I 0:19:11.480 --> 0:19:15.080 never judged those who, like Carol Thompson, find ways in 0:19:15.119 --> 0:19:20.879 which to deal with this sort of consuming grief. What 0:19:20.960 --> 0:19:23.960 did you think when you heard that Irene might be 0:19:23.960 --> 0:19:30.280 behind Ron's murder? I loved it because the reason that 0:19:30.400 --> 0:19:31.600 I loved it, I mean, there could have been a 0:19:31.600 --> 0:19:35.600 better person. I really hope it was her, because he 0:19:37.119 --> 0:19:41.960 betrayed my family. He was their friend or trusted friend, 0:19:42.320 --> 0:19:45.160 and he betrayed them and killed them for their money. 0:19:45.200 --> 0:19:48.760 So it's his wife betrayed him. Oh my gosh, that's 0:19:48.840 --> 0:19:52.679 there's just no better. I mean, if I couldn't do it, 0:19:52.720 --> 0:19:56.919 that would be the next best thing. Yeah. Absolutely. Carol 0:19:57.000 --> 0:20:01.560 presents herself as a resilient, irrepressible. To some. She can 0:20:01.560 --> 0:20:05.680 come across as too animated or blunt emotionless if you will, 0:20:06.119 --> 0:20:08.760 when recalling some of the darkest moments of her life, 0:20:09.320 --> 0:20:14.320 but it's her life, her story, her experience. Carol gets 0:20:14.320 --> 0:20:18.400 to respond in any way she needs to. I'm glad 0:20:18.400 --> 0:20:19.920 if she is the one who did it. I'm really 0:20:20.040 --> 0:20:23.399 super glad that she betrayed him, and I hope he 0:20:23.440 --> 0:20:26.879 knew that. I hoped in the last seconds of his 0:20:28.200 --> 0:20:31.840 you know, his musical life. I hoped in those last seconds. 0:20:31.880 --> 0:20:36.840 But you know, he knew he was betrayed. I think 0:20:36.880 --> 0:20:42.639 that would be a little bit of justice. You know, 0:20:42.640 --> 0:20:46.679 it's just a shame that Ron skates right under the 0:20:47.080 --> 0:20:49.679 you know, he skated, but in the end, he you know, 0:20:49.720 --> 0:20:51.840 he got a bullet in the back of his head. Yeah, 0:20:51.840 --> 0:20:54.320 it's not good enough, but it's good. I mean, that's 0:20:54.359 --> 0:20:57.240 what it is. I wish it was. I mean a trial. 0:20:57.440 --> 0:20:59.400 A trial and life in prison would have been better, 0:20:59.440 --> 0:21:02.280 I think would have been great. Yeah, or or me 0:21:02.320 --> 0:21:04.920 to actually call him, because I truly did. I wanted 0:21:04.920 --> 0:21:06.760 to kill him right on the courthouse steps. That was 0:21:06.840 --> 0:21:09.920 my fantasy. And I don't get him on the courthouse 0:21:09.920 --> 0:21:15.880 steps where everybody could see. And you would have done it, Carol, Absolutely, yes, 0:21:16.000 --> 0:21:17.640 I think I would have done it. I mean, it's 0:21:17.840 --> 0:21:20.240 it sounds terrible. Could you be that cold? But yeah, 0:21:20.400 --> 0:21:21.679 you know, when I think about it, you know, the 0:21:21.720 --> 0:21:25.520 flashes I get pictures in my head of of Mom's 0:21:25.560 --> 0:21:29.239 body and little Billy, you know, a little billy. All 0:21:29.280 --> 0:21:30.880 I gotta do this thing about little Billy And yes, 0:21:30.880 --> 0:21:34.800 that cool trigger absolutely because you know what, there's other 0:21:34.800 --> 0:21:37.800 babies out there. And he he was dangerous. I don't 0:21:37.800 --> 0:21:40.159 care what anybody said. He was dangerous and they weren't 0:21:40.160 --> 0:21:44.000 getting him, you know. And it's just a shame because 0:21:45.440 --> 0:21:47.119 I don't know if they knew who he was and 0:21:47.160 --> 0:21:49.919 that I mean, I understand that you can't get evidence 0:21:49.960 --> 0:21:53.000 on somebody, but I don't know. You know, there was 0:21:53.080 --> 0:21:55.280 quite a bit of circumstantial evidence. I would have rather 0:21:56.040 --> 0:21:59.400 them taking to court with the circumstantial evidence and lost. 0:22:00.080 --> 0:22:05.399 Might have tried it on. Luckily for David Bell, he 0:22:05.440 --> 0:22:08.520 picks it up like ten years later and you know, 0:22:08.760 --> 0:22:12.280 pursues it and and David Bell, he's like, look, I 0:22:12.400 --> 0:22:16.440 brought this case to my prosecutors and they didn't want 0:22:16.440 --> 0:22:19.480 to do anything. I told them Ron, I found evidence 0:22:19.600 --> 0:22:22.720 Ron was involved. How can they do that? How can 0:22:22.840 --> 0:22:24.800 you know? How can you do It's up to them. 0:22:24.880 --> 0:22:26.480 It's up to them to say I know that. You 0:22:26.520 --> 0:22:27.919 know what, it doesn't make any sense to me in 0:22:27.960 --> 0:22:29.960 the in the grand scheme of the world. It doesn't 0:22:29.960 --> 0:22:32.359 make any sense to me. How you can let a 0:22:32.400 --> 0:22:37.919 person who planned and and actually you know, made it happen, 0:22:38.119 --> 0:22:42.320 a quadruble murder, including that of a child, and you 0:22:42.440 --> 0:22:44.360 know who this person is, and you if you've got 0:22:44.359 --> 0:22:47.280 this evidence, you've got these police, you know, bring it 0:22:47.320 --> 0:22:50.720 to your desk, and you know that this person will 0:22:50.800 --> 0:22:53.600 probably do something like this again, how do you not 0:22:53.880 --> 0:22:59.720 pursue it? Not everyone grieves in the same way. Carol 0:22:59.760 --> 0:23:03.120 has offered through horrible trauma, the likes of which most 0:23:03.240 --> 0:23:08.080 of us will never experience. She's felt the shock, the denial, 0:23:08.280 --> 0:23:13.199 the guilt, the anger, the fear. But there's no magic 0:23:13.240 --> 0:23:15.840 solution to help escape the kind of pain you feel 0:23:15.880 --> 0:23:20.840 when your entire family has been executed and justice has 0:23:20.920 --> 0:23:26.000 not been served. Having told Carol everything I've uncovered during 0:23:26.040 --> 0:23:29.160 my investigation, I asked her if the information has helped 0:23:29.200 --> 0:23:32.480 in any way. Absolutely. I mean that's all I've ever 0:23:32.520 --> 0:23:35.439 wanted was you know Ron's dad. I can't you know, 0:23:35.800 --> 0:23:38.480 they can't do anything with him now. But yes, I 0:23:38.480 --> 0:23:41.639 mean I've always wanted the story known for what it 0:23:41.720 --> 0:23:44.960 truly happened and who who did it. One of the 0:23:44.960 --> 0:23:47.879 things that has always haunted me is, you know, a 0:23:47.960 --> 0:23:51.840 hundred years in the future Ron's great great grandchildren. You 0:23:51.840 --> 0:23:54.600 know they're gonna look back and they're gonna go, oh, 0:23:55.000 --> 0:23:57.879 are poor great great grandfather. He was a good of 0:23:58.040 --> 0:24:00.760 standing man. He was such a good man, and he 0:24:00.840 --> 0:24:03.800 was murdered and they never even found out who killed him. 0:24:03.840 --> 0:24:09.400 Poor poor man. Now, no, I don't want that. I mean, 0:24:09.400 --> 0:24:13.879 and that's always been my driving thing, really, that's always 0:24:13.880 --> 0:24:19.840 been in my head. Dick Weston was dead. Ron Thomas 0:24:20.440 --> 0:24:25.040 was dead, but the woman authorities believed orchestrated Ron's murder 0:24:25.080 --> 0:24:29.720 managed to somehow evade any repercussion, same as he did. Yet, 0:24:30.359 --> 0:24:34.880 like Ron, Irene Floyd's life of freedom wouldn't last long. 0:24:35.920 --> 0:24:39.119 And one of the more bizarre twists in this entire case, 0:24:39.880 --> 0:24:44.440 alas dose of karma, perhaps what ended up happening next 0:24:44.560 --> 0:24:46.359 is the moment you look at and just have to 0:24:46.400 --> 0:24:51.000 ask yourself what the hell is going on in this case? Because, 0:24:51.080 --> 0:24:54.240 for one, it was well known among friends that Irene 0:24:54.240 --> 0:24:58.040 Floyd was terrified of water, and yet in two thousand twelve, 0:24:58.520 --> 0:25:02.679 Irene Floyd, the Black Widow, was found dead in a 0:25:02.760 --> 0:25:28.520 friend's swimming pool. The cause of death drowning Paper Ghosts 0:25:28.720 --> 0:25:32.360 is written and executive produced by Me and William Phelps 0:25:32.480 --> 0:25:36.560 and I Heart Radio Executive producer Christina Everett with script 0:25:36.560 --> 0:25:40.800 consultant Matthew Riddle. Audio editing and mixing by a Booze 0:25:40.840 --> 0:25:44.760 Afire thanks to Will Pearson at I Heart Radio. The 0:25:44.840 --> 0:25:47.880 series theme number four four two is written and performed 0:25:47.880 --> 0:25:51.800 by Thomas Phelps and Tom Mooney. And one final thank 0:25:51.840 --> 0:25:55.720 you to Lauren Bright Patio, who I cannot thank enough 0:25:56.080 --> 0:25:59.879 for all she has done for me. For more podcasts 0:26:00.080 --> 0:26:04.080 my Heart Radio, visit the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, 0:26:04.359 --> 0:26:08.520 or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. H