1
00:00:04,519 --> 00:00:09,440
Speaker 1: Karma can be a bit. When you spend your entire

2
00:00:09,560 --> 00:00:14,480
Speaker 1: life cheating, stealing, destroying lives, gloom and doom is bound

3
00:00:14,520 --> 00:00:18,840
Speaker 1: to come back at you tenfold. So when a guy

4
00:00:18,920 --> 00:00:22,759
Speaker 1: like Ron Thomas is found dead, the lists of suspects

5
00:00:22,920 --> 00:00:26,200
Speaker 1: may at first appear endless. Yet when you look at

6
00:00:26,239 --> 00:00:28,920
Speaker 1: the context of the murder, there were only a few

7
00:00:28,960 --> 00:00:32,600
Speaker 1: people who would benefit from Ron's death. One person who

8
00:00:32,600 --> 00:00:35,879
Speaker 1: immediately comes to minds Dick Weston. It would not be

9
00:00:35,960 --> 00:00:38,600
Speaker 1: unimaginable to think the guy who has to spend the

10
00:00:38,600 --> 00:00:41,680
Speaker 1: rest of his life in prison would want some retribution

11
00:00:42,040 --> 00:00:47,279
Speaker 1: against the mastermind walked free. As Detective Tom Cooper tells me,

12
00:00:47,520 --> 00:00:50,320
Speaker 1: even though Dick Weston was locked up, the guy was

13
00:00:50,440 --> 00:00:53,840
Speaker 1: known to have ties to the outside. I'm sure he

14
00:00:53,880 --> 00:00:57,920
Speaker 1: had connections through the prison system because he was spending

15
00:00:57,920 --> 00:01:00,920
Speaker 1: his time down terror hate be for spending the rest

16
00:01:00,920 --> 00:01:05,280
Speaker 1: of his days serving four consecutive life sentences. Dick Weston

17
00:01:05,760 --> 00:01:08,600
Speaker 1: had the first complete the federal government's twenty five years

18
00:01:08,640 --> 00:01:12,880
Speaker 1: sentence at the prison in Tara Hape, Indiana, and he

19
00:01:12,959 --> 00:01:16,800
Speaker 1: was supposed to come to us after they never got

20
00:01:16,800 --> 00:01:20,480
Speaker 1: to us. The theories of Dick Weston taking out a

21
00:01:20,560 --> 00:01:26,080
Speaker 1: hit on. Ron Thomas ended in when Dick suffered a

22
00:01:26,080 --> 00:01:40,080
Speaker 1: massive heart attack and died in prison. Previously on Paper Ghosts,

23
00:01:40,880 --> 00:01:42,360
Speaker 1: and we come to a kind of like a dead end,

24
00:01:42,959 --> 00:01:45,200
Speaker 1: and we spent around and guess who was behind me?

25
00:01:45,840 --> 00:01:50,559
Speaker 1: Ron Thomas. He had followed me. He had literally turned

26
00:01:50,560 --> 00:01:55,080
Speaker 1: around and followed me down the steps. You don't know

27
00:01:55,080 --> 00:01:57,440
Speaker 1: where if you lay down to take a nap or

28
00:01:57,520 --> 00:02:00,120
Speaker 1: lay down good to street where you going like up

29
00:02:00,200 --> 00:02:03,520
Speaker 1: or not? You don't know where your kids just gonna

30
00:02:03,520 --> 00:02:06,840
Speaker 1: be where you left him or not not With everything

31
00:02:06,880 --> 00:02:10,360
Speaker 1: that was going on, and I'm convinced that he knew

32
00:02:11,160 --> 00:02:14,639
Speaker 1: his killer. There was no struggle in the home, and

33
00:02:14,680 --> 00:02:18,959
Speaker 1: it didn't appear to be My name is m William Phelps.

34
00:02:19,400 --> 00:02:23,040
Speaker 1: I'm an investigative journalist and author of forty four true

35
00:02:23,120 --> 00:02:28,400
Speaker 1: crime books. This is season two of Paper Ghosts. Burned.

36
00:02:40,000 --> 00:02:43,480
Speaker 1: With any question of the mafia's involvement or Dick Weston's

37
00:02:43,520 --> 00:02:47,240
Speaker 1: attempt at retaliation now off the table, the pool of

38
00:02:47,320 --> 00:02:51,200
Speaker 1: people who could have killed Ron Thomas was shrinking. Those

39
00:02:51,280 --> 00:02:56,760
Speaker 1: involved have their theories, as do I. It's been sometime

40
00:02:56,840 --> 00:02:59,359
Speaker 1: since I last spoke with Carol Thompson, the daughter of

41
00:02:59,520 --> 00:03:03,760
Speaker 1: victims Linda and Billy Stevenson. After hearing her admit that

42
00:03:03,800 --> 00:03:06,440
Speaker 1: she wanted to shoot Ron tom is dead on the

43
00:03:06,480 --> 00:03:09,760
Speaker 1: courthouse steps, and now learning that a potential hit was

44
00:03:09,800 --> 00:03:12,960
Speaker 1: put out on Ron, I needed to call Carol and

45
00:03:13,000 --> 00:03:19,280
Speaker 1: asked the obvious question, So knowing what happens to Ron later,

46
00:03:19,400 --> 00:03:22,600
Speaker 1: I mean, a fair question is because it's an unsolved case,

47
00:03:22,760 --> 00:03:28,440
Speaker 1: did you kill Ron? No? No, I did not. I um,

48
00:03:28,480 --> 00:03:30,880
Speaker 1: you know, I understand, I understand you're asking that question

49
00:03:30,919 --> 00:03:34,239
Speaker 1: to me. That doesn't even enough an me. I've never

50
00:03:34,280 --> 00:03:36,840
Speaker 1: I didn't understand at the time why the police didn't

51
00:03:36,880 --> 00:03:41,120
Speaker 1: contact me earlier. You know, this piece of information has

52
00:03:41,160 --> 00:03:45,000
Speaker 1: always surprised me. For as diligent and tenacious as the

53
00:03:45,040 --> 00:03:48,920
Speaker 1: Claremont County Sheriff's Department and FBI were in investigating the

54
00:03:48,960 --> 00:03:52,280
Speaker 1: Stevenson case, It's bizarre why no one in law enforcement

55
00:03:52,600 --> 00:03:56,160
Speaker 1: thought to question the surviving family member who made no

56
00:03:56,360 --> 00:04:03,640
Speaker 1: secret wanting to kill Ron Thomas. No one contacted you, no, no,

57
00:04:03,760 --> 00:04:06,880
Speaker 1: no no. I was laying at Baud asleep and it

58
00:04:06,920 --> 00:04:08,800
Speaker 1: was about I was two in the morning or something,

59
00:04:08,840 --> 00:04:11,440
Speaker 1: and my phone rang and it was my daughter, you know,

60
00:04:11,480 --> 00:04:14,280
Speaker 1: my oldest daughter, Shannon, and uh, she said to me

61
00:04:14,440 --> 00:04:16,280
Speaker 1: and her mom, you need to wake up, Like I

62
00:04:16,400 --> 00:04:19,360
Speaker 1: say somethinghere, this very important. And I'm like, she's two

63
00:04:19,360 --> 00:04:20,839
Speaker 1: three in the morning or something. She's like, gets to

64
00:04:20,920 --> 00:04:24,360
Speaker 1: your computer. Go to your computer now. She immediately, uh

65
00:04:24,560 --> 00:04:26,200
Speaker 1: sent me a link and I click the link and

66
00:04:26,200 --> 00:04:31,479
Speaker 1: it talked about, you know, this cold case murder of

67
00:04:31,720 --> 00:04:35,599
Speaker 1: Ronald Thomas. And I'm like, this can't be the same this,

68
00:04:35,600 --> 00:04:37,640
Speaker 1: this can't you know, I mean, come on, I'm blown away.

69
00:04:37,640 --> 00:04:43,760
Speaker 1: He's murdered. So I did call the the policeman over

70
00:04:43,800 --> 00:04:47,360
Speaker 1: the cold case. Carol spoke with Dave Bell, the former

71
00:04:47,400 --> 00:04:51,720
Speaker 1: South Carolina detective who you've heard in the last few episodes.

72
00:04:52,520 --> 00:04:55,039
Speaker 1: I was about to be very, very happy, and but

73
00:04:55,360 --> 00:04:57,080
Speaker 1: he's know for sure, you know, it was the right guy.

74
00:04:57,160 --> 00:05:00,560
Speaker 1: And so I asked him, I, you know, I need

75
00:05:00,560 --> 00:05:03,359
Speaker 1: to confirm that this is you know, the same wrong

76
00:05:03,560 --> 00:05:07,320
Speaker 1: from you know Berkfield. And his answer surprised me because

77
00:05:07,320 --> 00:05:11,159
Speaker 1: he said, um, something the effect of, if you're referring

78
00:05:11,160 --> 00:05:15,000
Speaker 1: to the man who was in some ways linked to

79
00:05:15,800 --> 00:05:19,560
Speaker 1: the Stevenson murder in Bethel, Ohio, then yes, this is

80
00:05:19,600 --> 00:05:22,919
Speaker 1: the same man. I said him right away. You know,

81
00:05:23,480 --> 00:05:26,840
Speaker 1: I'm shocked. Why didn't you know. I'm I'm surprised, you know,

82
00:05:26,880 --> 00:05:28,719
Speaker 1: I wanted demand dead. I'm surprised thatybody called me. You know,

83
00:05:28,760 --> 00:05:32,320
Speaker 1: this is a cold case. I'm shocked. And he kind

84
00:05:32,320 --> 00:05:33,800
Speaker 1: of he kind of chuckled, and he said, you know,

85
00:05:34,000 --> 00:05:36,760
Speaker 1: you know, Caroline's done. I understand that. He said, so

86
00:05:36,880 --> 00:05:38,480
Speaker 1: let me ask you a question. And I said, what's that?

87
00:05:38,480 --> 00:05:41,960
Speaker 1: And he said, did you murder wrong pass? And I said,

88
00:05:42,200 --> 00:05:45,240
Speaker 1: absolutely not. But if you find out who did, let

89
00:05:45,240 --> 00:05:47,279
Speaker 1: me know. I would like to send them some cookies

90
00:05:47,279 --> 00:05:49,640
Speaker 1: and flowers and anything else they might need. And I

91
00:05:49,839 --> 00:05:53,360
Speaker 1: wanted to thank them. My fear was, you know, this

92
00:05:53,480 --> 00:05:55,480
Speaker 1: wasn't a man that was gonna stop if he saw

93
00:05:55,600 --> 00:05:58,640
Speaker 1: money in the future. It wouldn't matter if it was

94
00:05:58,640 --> 00:06:01,360
Speaker 1: a one year old, you know, hate hap kill him.

95
00:06:02,320 --> 00:06:18,039
Speaker 1: I didn't want anybody else to get through it. There

96
00:06:18,040 --> 00:06:24,640
Speaker 1: are three fundamental motivations behind murder. Love, money, revenge under

97
00:06:24,680 --> 00:06:30,159
Speaker 1: the money umbrella. Greed factors into about homicides in this country.

98
00:06:30,640 --> 00:06:35,919
Speaker 1: According to experts and crime statisticians, It's clear to me

99
00:06:36,000 --> 00:06:39,640
Speaker 1: Carol Thompson did not kill Ron Thomas. I am certain

100
00:06:39,680 --> 00:06:43,200
Speaker 1: she can be ruled out as a suspect, but there

101
00:06:43,279 --> 00:06:46,320
Speaker 1: is one other person who had a solid motive to

102
00:06:46,400 --> 00:06:50,279
Speaker 1: want Ron dead. In the eyes of Dave Bell, who

103
00:06:50,279 --> 00:06:53,760
Speaker 1: took up Ron Thomas's homicide case in the early two thousand's,

104
00:06:54,760 --> 00:06:59,760
Speaker 1: history seemed to be repeating itself. You know what what

105
00:07:00,160 --> 00:07:05,120
Speaker 1: when we first looked into run Ron's death, we we

106
00:07:05,120 --> 00:07:08,760
Speaker 1: we looked at his wife as a suspect, Irene in

107
00:07:08,839 --> 00:07:13,120
Speaker 1: his in his murder. It didn't take long to realize that, yes,

108
00:07:13,200 --> 00:07:16,000
Speaker 1: you are number one suspect in his murder because of

109
00:07:16,040 --> 00:07:19,840
Speaker 1: the pattern that she had and uh in her first

110
00:07:19,880 --> 00:07:26,400
Speaker 1: and second husband's untimely death. Looking back, Irene's first husband

111
00:07:26,520 --> 00:07:30,040
Speaker 1: was accidentally killed by a train while trying to outrun

112
00:07:30,160 --> 00:07:35,840
Speaker 1: cops after a domestic dispute. Her second husband was severely beaten, survived,

113
00:07:36,400 --> 00:07:40,280
Speaker 1: but then reportedly committed suicide by firing a shotgun with

114
00:07:40,400 --> 00:07:45,840
Speaker 1: his paralyzed toe. Now Irene's third husband has been murdered

115
00:07:46,280 --> 00:07:50,680
Speaker 1: while sitting in his living room waiting for someone. If

116
00:07:50,680 --> 00:07:54,760
Speaker 1: there's one axiom good investigators rely on, it's that previous

117
00:07:54,800 --> 00:07:59,920
Speaker 1: behavior as an indicative predictor of future behavior. Because, similar

118
00:07:59,920 --> 00:08:02,120
Speaker 1: to what happened the last time I hit was put

119
00:08:02,160 --> 00:08:05,600
Speaker 1: out on one of her husband's Irene was conveniently far

120
00:08:05,680 --> 00:08:08,960
Speaker 1: away from the crime scene when Ron Thomas was killed,

121
00:08:09,760 --> 00:08:13,960
Speaker 1: and of course you know, Irene left Ron home by

122
00:08:14,000 --> 00:08:17,320
Speaker 1: himself to give herself an alibi. Uh so, But when

123
00:08:17,360 --> 00:08:20,880
Speaker 1: she could be home and found Ron murdered and called

124
00:08:22,200 --> 00:08:27,760
Speaker 1: one the investigator where he arrived and started talking to

125
00:08:27,800 --> 00:08:34,960
Speaker 1: her the crime scene and asking her questions. She stopped

126
00:08:35,000 --> 00:08:38,880
Speaker 1: him at one point and says, well, do I need

127
00:08:38,880 --> 00:08:45,600
Speaker 1: an attorney? And the investigator I don't know. Do you

128
00:08:45,679 --> 00:08:49,360
Speaker 1: think you need an attorney? And as soon as he

129
00:08:49,440 --> 00:08:52,440
Speaker 1: said that, she said, I'm not gonna say no more,

130
00:08:52,440 --> 00:08:57,319
Speaker 1: hour on my attorney. Most people whose significant other has

131
00:08:57,400 --> 00:09:01,199
Speaker 1: just been found murdered are usually beside themselves, stricken by

132
00:09:01,280 --> 00:09:05,920
Speaker 1: shock and sorrow. They can react in unexpected ways, yet

133
00:09:06,000 --> 00:09:09,679
Speaker 1: predictable under the banner of acute emotional pain that generally

134
00:09:09,720 --> 00:09:16,120
Speaker 1: accompanies shocking loss. If Irene's reaction wasn't suspicious enough, what

135
00:09:16,280 --> 00:09:19,679
Speaker 1: she did in the weeks before Ron Thomas's murder more

136
00:09:19,800 --> 00:09:23,600
Speaker 1: or less confirmed her involvement. The funny thing I found

137
00:09:23,600 --> 00:09:28,920
Speaker 1: out was I thought really unique, was Irene had taken

138
00:09:29,280 --> 00:09:32,880
Speaker 1: a big insurance policy had on him, like a hundred

139
00:09:32,880 --> 00:09:36,800
Speaker 1: and fifty tho dollar insurance policy had on Run, and

140
00:09:37,160 --> 00:09:42,360
Speaker 1: a month before Run is murdered, she calls the insurance

141
00:09:42,360 --> 00:09:46,680
Speaker 1: her insurance agent who she's had for years, and asked

142
00:09:46,720 --> 00:09:51,920
Speaker 1: the insurance agent that if if Ron would would just

143
00:09:52,000 --> 00:09:55,480
Speaker 1: so happened to be a shot in the death, which

144
00:09:55,559 --> 00:09:58,160
Speaker 1: she still gets the hundred fifty thou dollars if he

145
00:09:58,280 --> 00:10:01,640
Speaker 1: died in that matter in the in the insurance agent

146
00:10:01,880 --> 00:10:05,720
Speaker 1: actually told, oh, yeah, sure you will. You know now,

147
00:10:05,840 --> 00:10:10,040
Speaker 1: if that's not suspicious, I don't know what is. It

148
00:10:10,160 --> 00:10:13,760
Speaker 1: was actually three hundred thousand dollars in life insurance that

149
00:10:13,840 --> 00:10:19,160
Speaker 1: Irene ended up collecting after Ron Thomas's murder, a considerable

150
00:10:19,280 --> 00:10:22,600
Speaker 1: bump from the ninety thousand she pocketed after her second

151
00:10:22,679 --> 00:10:28,359
Speaker 1: husband's suicide, and a seemingly larger increase from the undisclosed

152
00:10:28,400 --> 00:10:32,600
Speaker 1: sum she made from her first husband's untimely death. Well,

153
00:10:32,679 --> 00:10:35,720
Speaker 1: she got that all that big self clumps of money

154
00:10:35,800 --> 00:10:41,280
Speaker 1: because of her behavior and her decisions. Then that showed

155
00:10:41,280 --> 00:10:46,040
Speaker 1: her out easy. She get money with the insurance, and

156
00:10:46,120 --> 00:10:48,520
Speaker 1: that plan of that seat in her brain is That's

157
00:10:48,520 --> 00:10:52,160
Speaker 1: what I'm thinking with Ron Thomas. Do you think she

158
00:10:52,280 --> 00:10:57,440
Speaker 1: hired somebody or I think she promised somebody? Yeah, I

159
00:10:57,480 --> 00:11:02,000
Speaker 1: think she promised somebody some of the insurance money once

160
00:11:02,040 --> 00:11:05,559
Speaker 1: he was murdered. Is it possible that Ron could have

161
00:11:05,640 --> 00:11:09,640
Speaker 1: been killed by someone Dick Weston sent there because Ron

162
00:11:09,720 --> 00:11:15,600
Speaker 1: got away from being charged in the in Stevenson murders. Uh, well,

163
00:11:15,640 --> 00:11:20,040
Speaker 1: you know, I would say, I'd say it would be

164
00:11:20,080 --> 00:11:25,200
Speaker 1: more weld than likely. What Irene. The name David Bell

165
00:11:25,320 --> 00:11:29,079
Speaker 1: mentioned seems to come out of nowhere. It's someone close

166
00:11:29,160 --> 00:11:32,599
Speaker 1: to Irene who was never named in any official documents.

167
00:11:33,400 --> 00:11:36,760
Speaker 1: I trust Bell's investigation in the off the record information

168
00:11:36,880 --> 00:11:39,920
Speaker 1: has provided me. This is why giving cold cases a

169
00:11:40,000 --> 00:11:44,520
Speaker 1: second look is so crucial. Detective Bell stepped in with

170
00:11:44,559 --> 00:11:47,000
Speaker 1: a new set of eyes, a new way of looking

171
00:11:47,080 --> 00:11:50,760
Speaker 1: at things. It's these reasons why the name he mentions.

172
00:11:51,320 --> 00:11:54,199
Speaker 1: It's credible to me. I got a written statement from

173
00:11:54,200 --> 00:11:57,600
Speaker 1: a guy who said that his former wife was a

174
00:11:57,600 --> 00:12:00,599
Speaker 1: friend of Irene's and it was his understanding and that

175
00:12:01,000 --> 00:12:05,000
Speaker 1: I read killed William Floyd. If so, if he would

176
00:12:05,080 --> 00:12:09,640
Speaker 1: kill William Floyd, he sure killed Ron Thomas. Why would

177
00:12:09,679 --> 00:12:12,720
Speaker 1: this person carry out such a heinous act for someone

178
00:12:12,800 --> 00:12:16,800
Speaker 1: like Irene knowing her pension for cashing in on insurance

179
00:12:16,840 --> 00:12:20,080
Speaker 1: money was an obvious motivating factor, as well as the

180
00:12:20,120 --> 00:12:23,319
Speaker 1: common theme that connects us back to why so many

181
00:12:23,360 --> 00:12:28,559
Speaker 1: people in this story have wound up dead greed, I mean,

182
00:12:28,640 --> 00:12:31,880
Speaker 1: people did have set up for murder. Your husband's to

183
00:12:31,960 --> 00:12:35,640
Speaker 1: be construed as a black widow. I will admit that

184
00:12:35,760 --> 00:12:39,559
Speaker 1: her first husband was trying to She was just indirectly

185
00:12:39,679 --> 00:12:44,319
Speaker 1: involved with his untimely death. She didn't plan on him

186
00:12:44,320 --> 00:12:47,000
Speaker 1: trying to beat that train, you know. But I think

187
00:12:47,000 --> 00:12:50,360
Speaker 1: it's I run that not only did she claim the insurance,

188
00:12:50,400 --> 00:12:53,880
Speaker 1: I think she also uh found a civil suit against

189
00:12:53,920 --> 00:12:57,400
Speaker 1: the train company, you know, the uh and then the

190
00:12:57,440 --> 00:13:02,079
Speaker 1: same thing with the motel. She fild a civil suit

191
00:13:02,400 --> 00:13:07,520
Speaker 1: for William's death. Well, she's in unders initiated, you know,

192
00:13:07,640 --> 00:13:10,520
Speaker 1: and caused it. And in my opinion, I mean, I think,

193
00:13:10,840 --> 00:13:15,720
Speaker 1: in fact, I think it was the FBI that Penderwood

194
00:13:15,760 --> 00:13:20,480
Speaker 1: the black black woodow the title. You know, she's the

195
00:13:20,480 --> 00:13:24,120
Speaker 1: one who confesses to the FBI about all this with

196
00:13:24,160 --> 00:13:28,440
Speaker 1: William Floyd. As it turns out, Irene Floyd met with

197
00:13:28,480 --> 00:13:34,200
Speaker 1: the FBI on three separate occasions back in Nino. She

198
00:13:34,320 --> 00:13:37,640
Speaker 1: confessed her role in the near fatal beating of her

199
00:13:37,679 --> 00:13:42,480
Speaker 1: second husband, William Floyd, and admitted to receiving instructions from

200
00:13:42,640 --> 00:13:45,720
Speaker 1: Ron Thomas on how to tip off the assailants after

201
00:13:45,760 --> 00:13:49,079
Speaker 1: she and William arrived at their motel room in Memphis.

202
00:13:53,160 --> 00:13:55,880
Speaker 1: And of course, you know, she did a recamp her

203
00:13:55,960 --> 00:14:01,560
Speaker 1: confessions to the FBI. She never gave uh reason why

204
00:14:01,600 --> 00:14:05,920
Speaker 1: she reacan that. She just denied, uh that she ever

205
00:14:06,000 --> 00:14:09,720
Speaker 1: confessed to the FBI. Of course, you know I confirmed

206
00:14:09,760 --> 00:14:12,880
Speaker 1: with the FBI that she, in fact did. Irene made

207
00:14:12,880 --> 00:14:16,520
Speaker 1: official statements to the FEDS. She couldn't take back what

208
00:14:16,679 --> 00:14:20,280
Speaker 1: she admitted, but in a twisted bit of luck for Irene,

209
00:14:20,840 --> 00:14:24,560
Speaker 1: the documents were filed away and seemingly lost within what

210
00:14:24,680 --> 00:14:27,760
Speaker 1: can be an endless system of too much information and

211
00:14:27,800 --> 00:14:31,960
Speaker 1: too small of a budget to hire more investigators. That

212
00:14:32,200 --> 00:14:36,640
Speaker 1: is until the early two thousands, when the Richland County

213
00:14:36,680 --> 00:14:40,720
Speaker 1: Sheriff's Department in South Carolina decided to reopen Ron Thomas's

214
00:14:40,720 --> 00:14:45,320
Speaker 1: homicide case. After coming across Irene's damning statements as well

215
00:14:45,360 --> 00:14:49,200
Speaker 1: as her lawsuit against the motel, Richland County decided there

216
00:14:49,240 --> 00:14:52,600
Speaker 1: was enough evidence to charge Irene Thomas with conspiracy to

217
00:14:52,680 --> 00:14:56,200
Speaker 1: commit murder in the near fatal beating of her second husband.

218
00:14:57,760 --> 00:15:00,840
Speaker 1: That's when I got her indicted for or for the

219
00:15:00,920 --> 00:15:05,440
Speaker 1: conspiracy to kill Bill Freud because she did all the

220
00:15:05,760 --> 00:15:10,880
Speaker 1: conspiring in Columbia and Richeline County, which was our jurisdiction.

221
00:15:11,280 --> 00:15:14,760
Speaker 1: Irene Thomas was arrested and detained for five days before

222
00:15:14,840 --> 00:15:19,360
Speaker 1: being released on twenty five thousand dollars bail. If convicted,

223
00:15:19,400 --> 00:15:22,000
Speaker 1: she would face up to five years in prison or

224
00:15:22,040 --> 00:15:26,200
Speaker 1: a five thousand dollar five This shocks and disturbs me.

225
00:15:26,840 --> 00:15:30,480
Speaker 1: Conspiracy to commit murder and the worst punishment is only

226
00:15:30,600 --> 00:15:34,000
Speaker 1: five years in prison, of which we know will be

227
00:15:34,080 --> 00:15:41,720
Speaker 1: decreased to less time. The system is broken. Did she

228
00:15:41,800 --> 00:15:45,480
Speaker 1: ever do any time for that crime? Doctor? My knowledge?

229
00:15:45,480 --> 00:15:49,080
Speaker 1: You know, we had a sorry excuse for a solicitor

230
00:15:49,160 --> 00:15:54,080
Speaker 1: at the time, you know, a prosecutor and he uh,

231
00:15:54,120 --> 00:15:57,120
Speaker 1: he wasn't real big on cold cases and trying to

232
00:15:57,240 --> 00:16:00,440
Speaker 1: prosecute coal cases because he thought it would be too

233
00:16:00,520 --> 00:16:04,520
Speaker 1: much effort and he was afraid of losing a cold

234
00:16:04,560 --> 00:16:08,440
Speaker 1: cases are harder to approve and and not yet reelected.

235
00:16:08,560 --> 00:16:11,720
Speaker 1: That was his problem, said, I understand she was never

236
00:16:11,760 --> 00:16:16,680
Speaker 1: brought travel So you really believe that Irene was the

237
00:16:16,680 --> 00:16:19,840
Speaker 1: one who had a hand in Ron Thomas's murder, Oh,

238
00:16:19,880 --> 00:16:36,960
Speaker 1: no doubt there's no doubt in my mind to think

239
00:16:37,000 --> 00:16:39,640
Speaker 1: about all the pain and suffering, not to mention the

240
00:16:39,760 --> 00:16:44,040
Speaker 1: innocent lives lost at the behest of Ron Thomas, is

241
00:16:44,080 --> 00:16:47,800
Speaker 1: to truly understand that a sociopath lacks the basic emotion

242
00:16:47,880 --> 00:16:51,560
Speaker 1: to love, to care about people, that he puts himself

243
00:16:51,880 --> 00:16:56,640
Speaker 1: as narcissist do ahead of the world. The torment Ron

244
00:16:56,680 --> 00:17:00,720
Speaker 1: Thomas had planned, caused, and inflicted lasted law after he

245
00:17:00,840 --> 00:17:05,760
Speaker 1: was killed. Despite Ron's death in n it would be

246
00:17:05,840 --> 00:17:10,160
Speaker 1: thirteen years before Carol Thompson and her daughter Shannon would

247
00:17:10,280 --> 00:17:13,200
Speaker 1: learn about the fate of the second man responsible for

248
00:17:13,359 --> 00:17:20,080
Speaker 1: killing their family. Imagine over a decade and nobody called them,

249
00:17:20,200 --> 00:17:27,000
Speaker 1: nobody sent the letter, nobody emit nothing. You know, this

250
00:17:27,040 --> 00:17:30,040
Speaker 1: whole time, my mom's watching over her back, scared to death,

251
00:17:30,080 --> 00:17:33,280
Speaker 1: her whole life, and angry and just It was about

252
00:17:33,320 --> 00:17:35,639
Speaker 1: two o'clock in the morning and I remember I dropped everything.

253
00:17:35,640 --> 00:17:38,000
Speaker 1: I called my mom here in Ohio, got her out

254
00:17:38,000 --> 00:17:39,440
Speaker 1: of bed. I'm like, you have got to go downstairs.

255
00:17:39,520 --> 00:17:41,680
Speaker 1: I have to get this to you. So she goes down,

256
00:17:41,760 --> 00:17:43,800
Speaker 1: she fires up her computer and I don't tell her.

257
00:17:43,800 --> 00:17:47,320
Speaker 1: I just send her the link. And oh, it was crazy,

258
00:17:47,359 --> 00:17:50,520
Speaker 1: like She said, it was a bombshell. It was insane.

259
00:17:50,600 --> 00:17:54,200
Speaker 1: We never imagined in a million years. After learning about

260
00:17:54,320 --> 00:17:56,840
Speaker 1: Ron's death, Shannon called the prison to get an update

261
00:17:56,880 --> 00:17:59,480
Speaker 1: on the other man who killed her family, Dick Weston.

262
00:18:00,240 --> 00:18:03,880
Speaker 1: The prison informed her that Dick had been released. Shannon

263
00:18:03,920 --> 00:18:09,600
Speaker 1: absolutely lost it. How could this be happening? The d

264
00:18:09,720 --> 00:18:12,720
Speaker 1: o J ultimately called back and said they made a mistake.

265
00:18:13,560 --> 00:18:18,439
Speaker 1: Dick Weston had actually died while in prison. There's no

266
00:18:18,520 --> 00:18:21,880
Speaker 1: explanation for how such a mind blowing misstep like this

267
00:18:21,960 --> 00:18:26,399
Speaker 1: can happen. It's a seemingly innocent mistake, but one that

268
00:18:26,440 --> 00:18:29,360
Speaker 1: can set off a debilitating new wave of trauma and

269
00:18:29,359 --> 00:18:32,520
Speaker 1: fear for victims families. My mom and I made a

270
00:18:32,520 --> 00:18:35,000
Speaker 1: holiday of the day Rohn was murdered. I mean, it's horrible,

271
00:18:35,000 --> 00:18:37,240
Speaker 1: but it's cookie crumb day. It's the day to be

272
00:18:37,280 --> 00:18:40,080
Speaker 1: thankful for the little cookie crumbs that life gives you.

273
00:18:40,080 --> 00:18:42,320
Speaker 1: You know that, I don't know. I just meant a

274
00:18:42,359 --> 00:18:46,919
Speaker 1: lot to us. It never surprises me how victim family

275
00:18:46,960 --> 00:18:50,520
Speaker 1: members react to trauma of losing someone to murder, or

276
00:18:50,520 --> 00:18:54,439
Speaker 1: how victims families are treated. Each person deals with the

277
00:18:54,480 --> 00:18:58,359
Speaker 1: shocking realities in their own way. I've seen this in

278
00:18:58,440 --> 00:19:02,360
Speaker 1: my own family. My brother, for example, after his pregnant

279
00:19:02,359 --> 00:19:06,000
Speaker 1: wife was strangled to death, spent the next several years

280
00:19:06,240 --> 00:19:11,439
Speaker 1: killing himself with drugs and alcohol. He succeeded. So I

281
00:19:11,480 --> 00:19:15,080
Speaker 1: never judged those who, like Carol Thompson, find ways in

282
00:19:15,119 --> 00:19:20,879
Speaker 1: which to deal with this sort of consuming grief. What

283
00:19:20,960 --> 00:19:23,960
Speaker 1: did you think when you heard that Irene might be

284
00:19:23,960 --> 00:19:30,280
Speaker 1: behind Ron's murder? I loved it because the reason that

285
00:19:30,400 --> 00:19:31,600
Speaker 1: I loved it, I mean, there could have been a

286
00:19:31,600 --> 00:19:35,600
Speaker 1: better person. I really hope it was her, because he

287
00:19:37,119 --> 00:19:41,960
Speaker 1: betrayed my family. He was their friend or trusted friend,

288
00:19:42,320 --> 00:19:45,160
Speaker 1: and he betrayed them and killed them for their money.

289
00:19:45,200 --> 00:19:48,760
Speaker 1: So it's his wife betrayed him. Oh my gosh, that's

290
00:19:48,840 --> 00:19:52,679
Speaker 1: there's just no better. I mean, if I couldn't do it,

291
00:19:52,720 --> 00:19:56,919
Speaker 1: that would be the next best thing. Yeah. Absolutely. Carol

292
00:19:57,000 --> 00:20:01,560
Speaker 1: presents herself as a resilient, irrepressible. To some. She can

293
00:20:01,560 --> 00:20:05,680
Speaker 1: come across as too animated or blunt emotionless if you will,

294
00:20:06,119 --> 00:20:08,760
Speaker 1: when recalling some of the darkest moments of her life,

295
00:20:09,320 --> 00:20:14,320
Speaker 1: but it's her life, her story, her experience. Carol gets

296
00:20:14,320 --> 00:20:18,400
Speaker 1: to respond in any way she needs to. I'm glad

297
00:20:18,400 --> 00:20:19,920
Speaker 1: if she is the one who did it. I'm really

298
00:20:20,040 --> 00:20:23,399
Speaker 1: super glad that she betrayed him, and I hope he

299
00:20:23,440 --> 00:20:26,879
Speaker 1: knew that. I hoped in the last seconds of his

300
00:20:28,200 --> 00:20:31,840
Speaker 1: you know, his musical life. I hoped in those last seconds.

301
00:20:31,880 --> 00:20:36,840
Speaker 1: But you know, he knew he was betrayed. I think

302
00:20:36,880 --> 00:20:42,639
Speaker 1: that would be a little bit of justice. You know,

303
00:20:42,640 --> 00:20:46,679
Speaker 1: it's just a shame that Ron skates right under the

304
00:20:47,080 --> 00:20:49,679
Speaker 1: you know, he skated, but in the end, he you know,

305
00:20:49,720 --> 00:20:51,840
Speaker 1: he got a bullet in the back of his head. Yeah,

306
00:20:51,840 --> 00:20:54,320
Speaker 1: it's not good enough, but it's good. I mean, that's

307
00:20:54,359 --> 00:20:57,240
Speaker 1: what it is. I wish it was. I mean a trial.

308
00:20:57,440 --> 00:20:59,400
Speaker 1: A trial and life in prison would have been better,

309
00:20:59,440 --> 00:21:02,280
Speaker 1: I think would have been great. Yeah, or or me

310
00:21:02,320 --> 00:21:04,920
Speaker 1: to actually call him, because I truly did. I wanted

311
00:21:04,920 --> 00:21:06,760
Speaker 1: to kill him right on the courthouse steps. That was

312
00:21:06,840 --> 00:21:09,920
Speaker 1: my fantasy. And I don't get him on the courthouse

313
00:21:09,920 --> 00:21:15,880
Speaker 1: steps where everybody could see. And you would have done it, Carol, Absolutely, yes,

314
00:21:16,000 --> 00:21:17,640
Speaker 1: I think I would have done it. I mean, it's

315
00:21:17,840 --> 00:21:20,240
Speaker 1: it sounds terrible. Could you be that cold? But yeah,

316
00:21:20,400 --> 00:21:21,679
Speaker 1: you know, when I think about it, you know, the

317
00:21:21,720 --> 00:21:25,520
Speaker 1: flashes I get pictures in my head of of Mom's

318
00:21:25,560 --> 00:21:29,239
Speaker 1: body and little Billy, you know, a little billy. All

319
00:21:29,280 --> 00:21:30,880
Speaker 1: I gotta do this thing about little Billy And yes,

320
00:21:30,880 --> 00:21:34,800
Speaker 1: that cool trigger absolutely because you know what, there's other

321
00:21:34,800 --> 00:21:37,800
Speaker 1: babies out there. And he he was dangerous. I don't

322
00:21:37,800 --> 00:21:40,159
Speaker 1: care what anybody said. He was dangerous and they weren't

323
00:21:40,160 --> 00:21:44,000
Speaker 1: getting him, you know. And it's just a shame because

324
00:21:45,440 --> 00:21:47,119
Speaker 1: I don't know if they knew who he was and

325
00:21:47,160 --> 00:21:49,919
Speaker 1: that I mean, I understand that you can't get evidence

326
00:21:49,960 --> 00:21:53,000
Speaker 1: on somebody, but I don't know. You know, there was

327
00:21:53,080 --> 00:21:55,280
Speaker 1: quite a bit of circumstantial evidence. I would have rather

328
00:21:56,040 --> 00:21:59,400
Speaker 1: them taking to court with the circumstantial evidence and lost.

329
00:22:00,080 --> 00:22:05,399
Speaker 1: Might have tried it on. Luckily for David Bell, he

330
00:22:05,440 --> 00:22:08,520
Speaker 1: picks it up like ten years later and you know,

331
00:22:08,760 --> 00:22:12,280
Speaker 1: pursues it and and David Bell, he's like, look, I

332
00:22:12,400 --> 00:22:16,440
Speaker 1: brought this case to my prosecutors and they didn't want

333
00:22:16,440 --> 00:22:19,480
Speaker 1: to do anything. I told them Ron, I found evidence

334
00:22:19,600 --> 00:22:22,720
Speaker 1: Ron was involved. How can they do that? How can

335
00:22:22,840 --> 00:22:24,800
Speaker 1: you know? How can you do It's up to them.

336
00:22:24,880 --> 00:22:26,480
Speaker 1: It's up to them to say I know that. You

337
00:22:26,520 --> 00:22:27,919
Speaker 1: know what, it doesn't make any sense to me in

338
00:22:27,960 --> 00:22:29,960
Speaker 1: the in the grand scheme of the world. It doesn't

339
00:22:29,960 --> 00:22:32,359
Speaker 1: make any sense to me. How you can let a

340
00:22:32,400 --> 00:22:37,919
Speaker 1: person who planned and and actually you know, made it happen,

341
00:22:38,119 --> 00:22:42,320
Speaker 1: a quadruble murder, including that of a child, and you

342
00:22:42,440 --> 00:22:44,360
Speaker 1: know who this person is, and you if you've got

343
00:22:44,359 --> 00:22:47,280
Speaker 1: this evidence, you've got these police, you know, bring it

344
00:22:47,320 --> 00:22:50,720
Speaker 1: to your desk, and you know that this person will

345
00:22:50,800 --> 00:22:53,600
Speaker 1: probably do something like this again, how do you not

346
00:22:53,880 --> 00:22:59,720
Speaker 1: pursue it? Not everyone grieves in the same way. Carol

347
00:22:59,760 --> 00:23:03,120
Speaker 1: has offered through horrible trauma, the likes of which most

348
00:23:03,240 --> 00:23:08,080
Speaker 1: of us will never experience. She's felt the shock, the denial,

349
00:23:08,280 --> 00:23:13,199
Speaker 1: the guilt, the anger, the fear. But there's no magic

350
00:23:13,240 --> 00:23:15,840
Speaker 1: solution to help escape the kind of pain you feel

351
00:23:15,880 --> 00:23:20,840
Speaker 1: when your entire family has been executed and justice has

352
00:23:20,920 --> 00:23:26,000
Speaker 1: not been served. Having told Carol everything I've uncovered during

353
00:23:26,040 --> 00:23:29,160
Speaker 1: my investigation, I asked her if the information has helped

354
00:23:29,200 --> 00:23:32,480
Speaker 1: in any way. Absolutely. I mean that's all I've ever

355
00:23:32,520 --> 00:23:35,439
Speaker 1: wanted was you know Ron's dad. I can't you know,

356
00:23:35,800 --> 00:23:38,480
Speaker 1: they can't do anything with him now. But yes, I

357
00:23:38,480 --> 00:23:41,639
Speaker 1: mean I've always wanted the story known for what it

358
00:23:41,720 --> 00:23:44,960
Speaker 1: truly happened and who who did it. One of the

359
00:23:44,960 --> 00:23:47,879
Speaker 1: things that has always haunted me is, you know, a

360
00:23:47,960 --> 00:23:51,840
Speaker 1: hundred years in the future Ron's great great grandchildren. You

361
00:23:51,840 --> 00:23:54,600
Speaker 1: know they're gonna look back and they're gonna go, oh,

362
00:23:55,000 --> 00:23:57,879
Speaker 1: are poor great great grandfather. He was a good of

363
00:23:58,040 --> 00:24:00,760
Speaker 1: standing man. He was such a good man, and he

364
00:24:00,840 --> 00:24:03,800
Speaker 1: was murdered and they never even found out who killed him.

365
00:24:03,840 --> 00:24:09,400
Speaker 1: Poor poor man. Now, no, I don't want that. I mean,

366
00:24:09,400 --> 00:24:13,879
Speaker 1: and that's always been my driving thing, really, that's always

367
00:24:13,880 --> 00:24:19,840
Speaker 1: been in my head. Dick Weston was dead. Ron Thomas

368
00:24:20,440 --> 00:24:25,040
Speaker 1: was dead, but the woman authorities believed orchestrated Ron's murder

369
00:24:25,080 --> 00:24:29,720
Speaker 1: managed to somehow evade any repercussion, same as he did. Yet,

370
00:24:30,359 --> 00:24:34,880
Speaker 1: like Ron, Irene Floyd's life of freedom wouldn't last long.

371
00:24:35,920 --> 00:24:39,119
Speaker 1: And one of the more bizarre twists in this entire case,

372
00:24:39,880 --> 00:24:44,440
Speaker 1: alas dose of karma, perhaps what ended up happening next

373
00:24:44,560 --> 00:24:46,359
Speaker 1: is the moment you look at and just have to

374
00:24:46,400 --> 00:24:51,000
Speaker 1: ask yourself what the hell is going on in this case? Because,

375
00:24:51,080 --> 00:24:54,240
Speaker 1: for one, it was well known among friends that Irene

376
00:24:54,240 --> 00:24:58,040
Speaker 1: Floyd was terrified of water, and yet in two thousand twelve,

377
00:24:58,520 --> 00:25:02,679
Speaker 1: Irene Floyd, the Black Widow, was found dead in a

378
00:25:02,760 --> 00:25:28,520
Speaker 1: friend's swimming pool. The cause of death drowning Paper Ghosts

379
00:25:28,720 --> 00:25:32,360
Speaker 1: is written and executive produced by Me and William Phelps

380
00:25:32,480 --> 00:25:36,560
Speaker 1: and I Heart Radio Executive producer Christina Everett with script

381
00:25:36,560 --> 00:25:40,800
Speaker 1: consultant Matthew Riddle. Audio editing and mixing by a Booze

382
00:25:40,840 --> 00:25:44,760
Speaker 1: Afire thanks to Will Pearson at I Heart Radio. The

383
00:25:44,840 --> 00:25:47,880
Speaker 1: series theme number four four two is written and performed

384
00:25:47,880 --> 00:25:51,800
Speaker 1: by Thomas Phelps and Tom Mooney. And one final thank

385
00:25:51,840 --> 00:25:55,720
Speaker 1: you to Lauren Bright Patio, who I cannot thank enough

386
00:25:56,080 --> 00:25:59,879
Speaker 1: for all she has done for me. For more podcasts

387
00:26:00,080 --> 00:26:04,080
Speaker 1: my Heart Radio, visit the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts,

388
00:26:04,359 --> 00:26:08,520
Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. H