1 00:00:01,240 --> 00:00:04,280 Speaker 1: Welcome to Katie's Crib, a production of Shondaland Audio in 2 00:00:04,360 --> 00:00:05,800 Speaker 1: partnership with iHeartRadio. 3 00:00:06,920 --> 00:00:11,320 Speaker 2: Storytelling is an important way of explaining things to kids 4 00:00:11,400 --> 00:00:14,560 Speaker 2: and having them be able to put their put themselves 5 00:00:14,560 --> 00:00:18,079 Speaker 2: in someone else's shoes, like a story about a dog dying, 6 00:00:18,320 --> 00:00:22,400 Speaker 2: et cetera, and the feelings that character had. But there's 7 00:00:22,760 --> 00:00:26,440 Speaker 2: there was a whole segment missing of this is what 8 00:00:26,480 --> 00:00:29,600 Speaker 2: it is, this is how it affects your life, this 9 00:00:29,760 --> 00:00:33,800 Speaker 2: is what it means to have cancer. And then later 10 00:00:34,000 --> 00:00:37,240 Speaker 2: some of these other books where kids are their mommy 11 00:00:37,240 --> 00:00:40,280 Speaker 2: has breast cancer. All the books were about breast cancer. 12 00:00:40,479 --> 00:00:43,680 Speaker 2: Was the other thing that really frustrated me. Oh, because 13 00:00:44,560 --> 00:00:47,400 Speaker 2: for the love of all things good and holy, people. 14 00:00:47,600 --> 00:00:50,000 Speaker 1: Come on people, good Lord. 15 00:00:50,240 --> 00:00:53,320 Speaker 2: I'm like, why must we make this breast cancer specific 16 00:00:53,479 --> 00:00:57,000 Speaker 2: or mommy specific? So all of my books apply to 17 00:00:57,360 --> 00:01:01,080 Speaker 2: any type of cancer. My divorce book, there's a version 18 00:01:01,160 --> 00:01:04,160 Speaker 2: for two moms and a version for two dads. I 19 00:01:04,319 --> 00:01:15,400 Speaker 2: want it so that people of all kinds can see themselves. 20 00:01:17,280 --> 00:01:22,319 Speaker 1: Hello, everybody, Welcome back to Katie's Crib. I was just 21 00:01:22,480 --> 00:01:27,800 Speaker 1: speaking with our guest today about when things are really 22 00:01:28,040 --> 00:01:31,000 Speaker 1: hard and you're parenting, and I have friends who have 23 00:01:31,080 --> 00:01:35,679 Speaker 1: been through this. I'm talking the real hard stuff like divorce, cancer, 24 00:01:36,240 --> 00:01:40,520 Speaker 1: school shootings. There's some real stuff that happens in parenting 25 00:01:40,840 --> 00:01:44,200 Speaker 1: on a personal level, like if your mom gets diagnosed 26 00:01:44,240 --> 00:01:48,200 Speaker 1: with a disease, if the parents are going through marital 27 00:01:48,280 --> 00:01:51,880 Speaker 1: things and are separating all of that stuff, how do 28 00:01:51,920 --> 00:01:56,400 Speaker 1: you deal so Mighty and Bright we have the founder here, 29 00:01:57,040 --> 00:02:00,600 Speaker 1: Sarah Oulsher. She is a writer and illustrator, speaker, and, 30 00:02:00,800 --> 00:02:05,160 Speaker 1: like I said, the founder of this incredible resource called 31 00:02:05,280 --> 00:02:08,480 Speaker 1: Mighty and Bright, which is a company that creates unique 32 00:02:08,480 --> 00:02:11,959 Speaker 1: book and calendar sets to bring clarity to kids about 33 00:02:12,000 --> 00:02:17,200 Speaker 1: confusing and hard situations. Sarah has worked hard to be 34 00:02:17,280 --> 00:02:21,440 Speaker 1: comfortable with the profoundly uncomfortable, and her work has been 35 00:02:21,440 --> 00:02:25,720 Speaker 1: featured in such platforms as Pop Sugar, Reader's Digest, The Mighty, 36 00:02:25,840 --> 00:02:28,680 Speaker 1: and Good Housekeeping. She has spoken in front of audiences 37 00:02:28,800 --> 00:02:32,440 Speaker 1: large and small about her own experiences of making major 38 00:02:32,560 --> 00:02:36,640 Speaker 1: life changes after divorce and cancer, and Sarah believes that 39 00:02:36,800 --> 00:02:40,440 Speaker 1: everyone has the resilience to overcome hardship and use those 40 00:02:40,520 --> 00:02:46,000 Speaker 1: lessons to make this world a better place. Brava, Sarah, 41 00:02:46,040 --> 00:02:52,520 Speaker 1: thank you so much for coming on Katie's Crib. I'm 42 00:02:52,560 --> 00:02:54,960 Speaker 1: so grateful for what you're doing. Can you start us 43 00:02:54,960 --> 00:02:56,920 Speaker 1: at the beginning, How did you start it? And what 44 00:02:57,080 --> 00:02:58,920 Speaker 1: gave you The idea for Mighty and Bright? 45 00:03:00,120 --> 00:03:03,960 Speaker 2: Started out of necessity. My daughter was two when I 46 00:03:04,240 --> 00:03:08,359 Speaker 2: went through a pretty brutal divorce and she was having 47 00:03:08,520 --> 00:03:12,480 Speaker 2: really bad anxiety and I had no idea what to do. 48 00:03:13,360 --> 00:03:15,640 Speaker 2: I think everybody kind of has their like go to 49 00:03:15,800 --> 00:03:18,280 Speaker 2: thing that they do when something's hard, Like you google 50 00:03:18,320 --> 00:03:21,560 Speaker 2: things which you probably shouldn't, you find books. For me, 51 00:03:21,840 --> 00:03:24,000 Speaker 2: I was like, I'm going to go to a therapist. 52 00:03:24,320 --> 00:03:27,720 Speaker 2: And my ex husband was like, what could a therapist 53 00:03:27,760 --> 00:03:30,280 Speaker 2: do to help a two year old? And I was like, 54 00:03:30,360 --> 00:03:33,240 Speaker 2: I don't know, but she is afraid of literally everything, 55 00:03:33,720 --> 00:03:36,440 Speaker 2: and so we're going to find out. And so I 56 00:03:36,520 --> 00:03:39,760 Speaker 2: found this really great therapist who opened my eyes to 57 00:03:39,800 --> 00:03:43,480 Speaker 2: the way you can communicate with small kids and basically 58 00:03:43,520 --> 00:03:45,480 Speaker 2: that they understand a lot more than we give them 59 00:03:45,520 --> 00:03:49,600 Speaker 2: credit for, and so most of us are just thinking, oh, 60 00:03:49,680 --> 00:03:51,920 Speaker 2: it's a little baby or it's a toddler, they're not 61 00:03:51,960 --> 00:03:54,960 Speaker 2: going to understand this, so we don't explain things. So 62 00:03:55,080 --> 00:03:57,280 Speaker 2: that was the main skill that I got from her. 63 00:03:57,880 --> 00:04:00,680 Speaker 2: But the thing that really changed every thing for me 64 00:04:01,080 --> 00:04:03,840 Speaker 2: was when she went on vacation and she pulled out 65 00:04:03,840 --> 00:04:06,680 Speaker 2: this like a construction paper calendar that she had made, 66 00:04:07,120 --> 00:04:11,080 Speaker 2: and she was showing how usually we see her on 67 00:04:11,280 --> 00:04:13,680 Speaker 2: this day, but we're not going to see her on 68 00:04:13,720 --> 00:04:15,440 Speaker 2: that day and instead we're going to see her on 69 00:04:15,560 --> 00:04:20,080 Speaker 2: this day. And I was like, why am I not 70 00:04:20,839 --> 00:04:23,440 Speaker 2: using this to show my daughter when she's going to 71 00:04:23,480 --> 00:04:28,239 Speaker 2: see her dad next? Because that was all she kept 72 00:04:28,960 --> 00:04:32,599 Speaker 2: what And So I had run an illustration business for 73 00:04:32,720 --> 00:04:36,200 Speaker 2: six years and I had these illustrations of our family, 74 00:04:36,360 --> 00:04:38,280 Speaker 2: and so I just split them apart and made them 75 00:04:38,279 --> 00:04:42,200 Speaker 2: into these little magnets and created the jankiest calendar on 76 00:04:42,279 --> 00:04:44,560 Speaker 2: the planet using like electrical tape. 77 00:04:44,920 --> 00:04:47,960 Speaker 1: Honey, that is not what they look like. Now when 78 00:04:48,040 --> 00:04:50,440 Speaker 1: you all listeners go to Mighty and Bright and you 79 00:04:50,520 --> 00:04:54,760 Speaker 1: can see all the calendars offered and all it's beautiful. 80 00:04:54,839 --> 00:04:59,359 Speaker 1: They are incredible for personal for gifts, for everything. They're amazing. 81 00:05:00,120 --> 00:05:03,560 Speaker 1: How did you start to unpack what exactly children need 82 00:05:04,000 --> 00:05:07,080 Speaker 1: in these challenging times? Was it from this therapist? 83 00:05:07,480 --> 00:05:10,480 Speaker 2: I actually have a background in psychology myself, which is problem. 84 00:05:10,480 --> 00:05:14,760 Speaker 1: My gosh, you are, oh my goodness, you are the 85 00:05:14,880 --> 00:05:17,240 Speaker 1: perfect mass. It's weird. 86 00:05:17,520 --> 00:05:20,960 Speaker 2: I don't know quite how, like life took me in 87 00:05:21,040 --> 00:05:24,400 Speaker 2: these turns that kind of all came together into creating 88 00:05:24,440 --> 00:05:27,640 Speaker 2: this thing that really needed to be there. But yeah, 89 00:05:27,720 --> 00:05:34,000 Speaker 2: so I've always really understood things like on a soul level, 90 00:05:34,200 --> 00:05:38,360 Speaker 2: like how what people need. But there's so much research 91 00:05:39,000 --> 00:05:43,200 Speaker 2: about specifically what kids need to cope and what they 92 00:05:43,240 --> 00:05:46,760 Speaker 2: need for creating a foundation of positive mental health. Like 93 00:05:46,839 --> 00:05:50,599 Speaker 2: all that research is there, and so I just dove 94 00:05:50,680 --> 00:05:54,560 Speaker 2: headfirst into it and thought, like, how is it that 95 00:05:54,600 --> 00:05:58,080 Speaker 2: we know all of these things, but there's nothing out 96 00:05:58,120 --> 00:06:02,400 Speaker 2: there that helps parents like actually implement it because as 97 00:06:02,440 --> 00:06:05,560 Speaker 2: a parent, like, we have one hundred billion things that 98 00:06:05,600 --> 00:06:08,000 Speaker 2: are going around in our heads all the time, and 99 00:06:08,080 --> 00:06:12,360 Speaker 2: it gets really overwhelming. And you were talking about school shootings. 100 00:06:12,480 --> 00:06:16,200 Speaker 2: All these things are really scary, and the more statistics 101 00:06:16,240 --> 00:06:19,640 Speaker 2: we hear, the more frozen we feel. And so what 102 00:06:19,680 --> 00:06:22,640 Speaker 2: I really wanted to do is basically create a roadmap 103 00:06:23,080 --> 00:06:26,440 Speaker 2: that made it easy for parents to understand what you 104 00:06:26,480 --> 00:06:30,599 Speaker 2: start with, what comes next, and really be able to 105 00:06:30,640 --> 00:06:34,360 Speaker 2: help their kids cope through this stuff because the truth is, 106 00:06:34,440 --> 00:06:37,400 Speaker 2: no matter how much we want to protect our kids 107 00:06:37,440 --> 00:06:41,000 Speaker 2: from every bad thing that's ever going to happen, life 108 00:06:41,160 --> 00:06:44,320 Speaker 2: is hard, and it is going to throw stuff at them. 109 00:06:45,240 --> 00:06:47,520 Speaker 1: I had sort of a white picket fence, I guess 110 00:06:47,560 --> 00:06:53,560 Speaker 1: you could say childhood where I just really didn't experience 111 00:06:55,000 --> 00:07:00,200 Speaker 1: trauma out of an ordinary child's life. And when I 112 00:07:00,240 --> 00:07:04,600 Speaker 1: was eighteen, I was a freshman at NYU during World 113 00:07:04,640 --> 00:07:07,440 Speaker 1: Trade Center during nine to eleven, and I lived two 114 00:07:07,480 --> 00:07:11,880 Speaker 1: blocks away and saw it all happen. And I remember 115 00:07:12,040 --> 00:07:15,240 Speaker 1: my dad after he realized that I was safe and 116 00:07:16,040 --> 00:07:19,640 Speaker 1: we were together, he was hysterical crying because he was like, 117 00:07:19,680 --> 00:07:22,440 Speaker 1: I made it this far and had protected you from 118 00:07:22,480 --> 00:07:26,480 Speaker 1: seeing anything bad. And now, look, eighteen years is an 119 00:07:26,520 --> 00:07:30,840 Speaker 1: incredible feat to go. But I'm saying it's life is hard, 120 00:07:31,120 --> 00:07:35,280 Speaker 1: and your children will experience hard things no matter what, 121 00:07:36,080 --> 00:07:39,080 Speaker 1: and exactly like you say, it's going to be the 122 00:07:39,240 --> 00:07:41,840 Speaker 1: challenge of being a parent is figuring out how you 123 00:07:41,880 --> 00:07:45,000 Speaker 1: give your children these skills to cope and to move 124 00:07:45,080 --> 00:07:48,720 Speaker 1: through these things, like for yourself you went through. Can 125 00:07:48,760 --> 00:07:51,280 Speaker 1: you tell me about your divorce, let's start there, and 126 00:07:51,320 --> 00:07:53,360 Speaker 1: how you told your daughter and explain to her what 127 00:07:53,400 --> 00:07:54,040 Speaker 1: divorce was. 128 00:07:54,800 --> 00:07:58,000 Speaker 2: That was kind of the beginning part of my realizing 129 00:07:58,000 --> 00:07:59,960 Speaker 2: and there were no resources out there. 130 00:08:00,360 --> 00:08:05,360 Speaker 1: Oh God, I can't even imagine, yes, yes, tell you know. 131 00:08:05,480 --> 00:08:08,400 Speaker 2: She's twelve now. So this was ten years ago. I 132 00:08:08,520 --> 00:08:12,760 Speaker 2: created the first co parenting calendar. There was nothing out there, 133 00:08:13,400 --> 00:08:16,240 Speaker 2: and it was infuriating to me. 134 00:08:16,680 --> 00:08:18,920 Speaker 1: Explain to me what a co parenting calendar. Explain to 135 00:08:18,960 --> 00:08:20,160 Speaker 1: where I know what it is, but explain to your 136 00:08:20,200 --> 00:08:21,880 Speaker 1: listeners what a co parenting calendar is. 137 00:08:22,160 --> 00:08:24,560 Speaker 2: Okay, So I think the traditional thought of a co 138 00:08:24,640 --> 00:08:29,080 Speaker 2: parenting calendar are these apps that people use with their 139 00:08:29,120 --> 00:08:31,880 Speaker 2: co parent to figure out who's going to see the 140 00:08:31,960 --> 00:08:35,480 Speaker 2: kids on what day. But the thing that is really 141 00:08:35,520 --> 00:08:39,360 Speaker 2: missing is giving the kids their own co parenting calendar, 142 00:08:39,440 --> 00:08:43,559 Speaker 2: so their own visual schedule where they have little pictures 143 00:08:43,559 --> 00:08:46,520 Speaker 2: that show when they're going to see each parent, and 144 00:08:46,559 --> 00:08:49,040 Speaker 2: the kid needs to have ownership over it. It needs 145 00:08:49,080 --> 00:08:51,880 Speaker 2: to belong to them. It can't be part of this 146 00:08:52,040 --> 00:08:55,080 Speaker 2: like big command center that a lot of families have 147 00:08:55,240 --> 00:08:58,600 Speaker 2: because having the kid have ownership over it makes them 148 00:08:58,640 --> 00:09:01,319 Speaker 2: feel a sense of control. But I just can't even 149 00:09:01,520 --> 00:09:06,439 Speaker 2: explain how powerful it is. So that is what I 150 00:09:06,600 --> 00:09:09,800 Speaker 2: used to explain to her what divorce was once I 151 00:09:09,920 --> 00:09:13,280 Speaker 2: created this thing. My mistake was she was a year 152 00:09:13,280 --> 00:09:16,000 Speaker 2: and a half when we separated, and I didn't think 153 00:09:16,040 --> 00:09:19,400 Speaker 2: I needed to explain it to her. I didn't study 154 00:09:19,480 --> 00:09:22,960 Speaker 2: child development. Had I known how fascinating children were, that 155 00:09:23,000 --> 00:09:26,880 Speaker 2: would have one hundred percent been where I focused every 156 00:09:26,960 --> 00:09:30,280 Speaker 2: bit of my studies, because they're fascinating. But I didn't 157 00:09:30,360 --> 00:09:32,520 Speaker 2: understand just how much she understood. 158 00:09:32,960 --> 00:09:36,640 Speaker 1: So at one and a half, you didn't say to her, like, what, 159 00:09:36,800 --> 00:09:40,640 Speaker 1: mommy and Daddy aren't we're not living together anymore, and 160 00:09:40,760 --> 00:09:43,760 Speaker 1: we both love you and you will spend time with me. 161 00:09:44,120 --> 00:09:47,280 Speaker 1: Make it fat, tell her the facts exactly of the deal. 162 00:09:47,720 --> 00:09:50,360 Speaker 2: What I would do now, knowing that I know what 163 00:09:50,520 --> 00:09:55,680 Speaker 2: I know now, would be to say, we have one house. Now, Mommy, Daddy, 164 00:09:55,920 --> 00:09:59,640 Speaker 2: baby all live in the same house. But now Daddy 165 00:09:59,720 --> 00:10:02,480 Speaker 2: is going to have a house. Mommy is going to 166 00:10:02,520 --> 00:10:05,160 Speaker 2: have a house. So you can see mommy and daddy 167 00:10:05,240 --> 00:10:06,240 Speaker 2: at their own house. 168 00:10:07,080 --> 00:10:12,360 Speaker 1: Great, And here's the calendar right where, here's your little 169 00:10:12,400 --> 00:10:14,760 Speaker 1: picture that we put. These are the days you spend 170 00:10:14,760 --> 00:10:16,720 Speaker 1: at daddy's house, and these are the days you do 171 00:10:16,920 --> 00:10:18,040 Speaker 1: stay at mommy's house. 172 00:10:18,480 --> 00:10:20,400 Speaker 2: The other thing that I think a lot of parents 173 00:10:20,480 --> 00:10:23,760 Speaker 2: think is, well, my kid doesn't have any concept of 174 00:10:23,960 --> 00:10:27,719 Speaker 2: time at that age, so how do you show them 175 00:10:27,760 --> 00:10:30,720 Speaker 2: a weekly calendar and have them understand it. And so 176 00:10:30,800 --> 00:10:33,880 Speaker 2: I created these little stickers that you can put on 177 00:10:33,960 --> 00:10:37,920 Speaker 2: the calendar so that they understand each day break basically 178 00:10:38,080 --> 00:10:40,679 Speaker 2: is a sleep so you can say it's two sleeps 179 00:10:40,760 --> 00:10:44,000 Speaker 2: until Daddy's house, it's two sleeps until this play date. 180 00:10:44,640 --> 00:10:48,000 Speaker 2: So kids of all ages can really benefit from it. 181 00:10:48,559 --> 00:10:53,280 Speaker 1: Oh, that's so great. Can you tell me about in 182 00:10:53,360 --> 00:10:56,000 Speaker 1: our listeners about your cancer story and how you told 183 00:10:56,000 --> 00:11:00,120 Speaker 1: your daughter what cancer was, how it was impacting you 184 00:11:00,000 --> 00:11:01,640 Speaker 1: and your daughter's mental health at the time. 185 00:11:02,040 --> 00:11:07,640 Speaker 2: Yeah, so she was six. I was thirty four, and 186 00:11:08,200 --> 00:11:11,880 Speaker 2: I have a big family history of breast cancer and 187 00:11:12,840 --> 00:11:15,200 Speaker 2: was in an early detection program I really had to 188 00:11:15,240 --> 00:11:19,000 Speaker 2: fight for. And it was my first breast MRI that 189 00:11:19,120 --> 00:11:22,640 Speaker 2: was supposed to be a baseline. They were gonna this 190 00:11:22,679 --> 00:11:24,760 Speaker 2: is where we're at, so if there's any weird changes, 191 00:11:24,840 --> 00:11:28,360 Speaker 2: we'll no And it caught my cancer. I had four 192 00:11:28,440 --> 00:11:32,400 Speaker 2: inches of cancer in my left breast and I got 193 00:11:32,400 --> 00:11:36,880 Speaker 2: the diagnosis while I was alone on a radiology table. 194 00:11:37,600 --> 00:11:42,079 Speaker 2: And the first thing I thought was as parents, because 195 00:11:42,200 --> 00:11:45,040 Speaker 2: some pretty dark places, but when you're told you have cancer, 196 00:11:45,320 --> 00:11:49,040 Speaker 2: all I could see was my daughter's tearful face at 197 00:11:49,040 --> 00:11:54,199 Speaker 2: my funeral. I was just devastated because at the time, 198 00:11:54,360 --> 00:11:57,160 Speaker 2: her dad and I were not getting along. She didn't 199 00:11:57,200 --> 00:11:59,800 Speaker 2: want to spend time with him, and I was like, 200 00:12:00,640 --> 00:12:04,040 Speaker 2: what am I going to do? And so what I 201 00:12:04,040 --> 00:12:06,439 Speaker 2: really recommend to people who get a diagnosis like that 202 00:12:06,880 --> 00:12:09,240 Speaker 2: is don't talk to your kids until you know a 203 00:12:09,240 --> 00:12:11,720 Speaker 2: little bit more so that you can actually give them 204 00:12:11,760 --> 00:12:16,800 Speaker 2: some facts about what this means. But also don't wait 205 00:12:16,840 --> 00:12:21,080 Speaker 2: that long, because kids understand that something is going on, 206 00:12:21,760 --> 00:12:24,520 Speaker 2: and it's like they can sense the energy in the room, 207 00:12:24,800 --> 00:12:27,600 Speaker 2: and they will make up stories about what it is 208 00:12:27,640 --> 00:12:29,920 Speaker 2: that's going on, and usually they will come up with 209 00:12:29,960 --> 00:12:32,320 Speaker 2: a story in which it is all their fault that 210 00:12:32,760 --> 00:12:37,600 Speaker 2: you're mad at them or something's wrong. Luckily, with all 211 00:12:37,640 --> 00:12:39,880 Speaker 2: of the research that I had done about divorce, I 212 00:12:39,920 --> 00:12:41,720 Speaker 2: already knew a lot of this stuff. 213 00:12:42,200 --> 00:12:44,240 Speaker 1: You knew that you had to talk to her about it, 214 00:12:45,120 --> 00:12:49,000 Speaker 1: not pretend in front of her that it wasn't happening, exactly, 215 00:12:49,440 --> 00:12:52,439 Speaker 1: know the facts to explain things in like a simple, 216 00:12:52,679 --> 00:12:57,880 Speaker 1: developmentally appropriate way. Tell me about doing that when. 217 00:12:57,760 --> 00:13:02,880 Speaker 2: Such order, what my go to was getting on Amazon 218 00:13:03,160 --> 00:13:06,400 Speaker 2: and buying a book to explain what cancer was. And 219 00:13:06,480 --> 00:13:10,319 Speaker 2: so I ordered probably six books, and I did not 220 00:13:10,520 --> 00:13:13,920 Speaker 2: like any of them. None of them explained what cancer was, 221 00:13:14,200 --> 00:13:19,240 Speaker 2: and I thought, this is like, again, kids understand more 222 00:13:19,240 --> 00:13:21,360 Speaker 2: than we give them credit for. We don't need these 223 00:13:21,520 --> 00:13:25,600 Speaker 2: weird analogies about like storms in your brain or like 224 00:13:26,000 --> 00:13:30,880 Speaker 2: you know, it complicates, confuses and scares them. So I 225 00:13:30,920 --> 00:13:33,800 Speaker 2: didn't use any of the books, and I basically just 226 00:13:33,880 --> 00:13:37,440 Speaker 2: explained to her really simply, our bodies are made up 227 00:13:37,600 --> 00:13:41,240 Speaker 2: of cells. They're like little teeny tiny building blocks. It's 228 00:13:41,240 --> 00:13:44,120 Speaker 2: like building with legos. But the cool thing about them 229 00:13:44,360 --> 00:13:47,240 Speaker 2: is that they can make new ones anytime they want to, 230 00:13:47,880 --> 00:13:51,000 Speaker 2: and so you just build forever and never stop, and 231 00:13:51,040 --> 00:13:54,640 Speaker 2: it's really cool. But sometimes a broken cell is made 232 00:13:55,240 --> 00:13:58,200 Speaker 2: and that broken cell doesn't know what its job is, 233 00:13:58,720 --> 00:14:01,079 Speaker 2: and the only thing no how to do is make 234 00:14:01,160 --> 00:14:04,520 Speaker 2: more and more copies of its own broken self. And 235 00:14:05,120 --> 00:14:08,400 Speaker 2: if there's enough of those broken cells together, they make 236 00:14:08,440 --> 00:14:10,440 Speaker 2: it hard for the body to do its job, for 237 00:14:10,480 --> 00:14:13,199 Speaker 2: the cells that are doing their jobs to work right. 238 00:14:14,040 --> 00:14:17,040 Speaker 2: Really clear, Yeah, so that's what I said to her. 239 00:14:18,000 --> 00:14:20,920 Speaker 2: And I said, so, what happened was we found some 240 00:14:21,000 --> 00:14:23,880 Speaker 2: of these broken guys, like in my breast, and so 241 00:14:24,200 --> 00:14:27,680 Speaker 2: we're going to have to take them out, and I 242 00:14:27,720 --> 00:14:30,400 Speaker 2: didn't need to go much further than that, because at 243 00:14:30,440 --> 00:14:33,800 Speaker 2: the time I thought that I had a very early 244 00:14:33,880 --> 00:14:36,440 Speaker 2: stage cancer. I thought all I was going to need 245 00:14:36,680 --> 00:14:38,720 Speaker 2: was surgery. I was going to have both my breasts 246 00:14:38,800 --> 00:14:42,920 Speaker 2: removed and reconstructed, which was a whole thing in and 247 00:14:42,960 --> 00:14:45,760 Speaker 2: of itself. So all I thought I needed to say 248 00:14:46,400 --> 00:14:48,640 Speaker 2: was they only found like a couple guys, So we're 249 00:14:48,640 --> 00:14:49,600 Speaker 2: just gonna cut them out and. 250 00:14:49,640 --> 00:14:51,360 Speaker 1: It's going to be done, and Momy's gonna be okay. 251 00:14:51,440 --> 00:14:51,800 Speaker 2: Right, Yeah. 252 00:14:51,960 --> 00:14:54,120 Speaker 1: Are you allowed to say things like that, Mommy's going 253 00:14:54,160 --> 00:14:56,920 Speaker 1: to be okay, don't worry, or you really stay away 254 00:14:56,960 --> 00:14:57,880 Speaker 1: from things like that. 255 00:14:58,760 --> 00:15:02,520 Speaker 2: It depends on the situation. I in my case, I 256 00:15:02,560 --> 00:15:06,800 Speaker 2: felt pretty comfortable saying that, but if something changes, like 257 00:15:06,840 --> 00:15:09,080 Speaker 2: in my case it did. When I woke up from 258 00:15:09,080 --> 00:15:12,520 Speaker 2: my double mastectomy, it turned out it had it was 259 00:15:12,520 --> 00:15:14,960 Speaker 2: in my lymph nodes, and so I had to have chemo. 260 00:15:15,600 --> 00:15:18,520 Speaker 2: All I said to my daughter was they told me 261 00:15:18,600 --> 00:15:21,160 Speaker 2: that I only had one little guy, And it turns 262 00:15:21,640 --> 00:15:25,040 Speaker 2: out that one little guy made some friends and they 263 00:15:25,080 --> 00:15:27,840 Speaker 2: were going to go move to another part of my body, 264 00:15:27,840 --> 00:15:31,080 Speaker 2: and so to make sure that all of them are dead, 265 00:15:31,640 --> 00:15:35,280 Speaker 2: we're going to get some special medicine called chemo, And 266 00:15:35,320 --> 00:15:38,880 Speaker 2: then I explained to her, So what that means is 267 00:15:39,320 --> 00:15:42,400 Speaker 2: I am going to go into the doctor's office every 268 00:15:42,480 --> 00:15:44,280 Speaker 2: three weeks and they're going to give me this really 269 00:15:44,840 --> 00:15:48,840 Speaker 2: big medicine, and the medicine is going to make sure 270 00:15:48,880 --> 00:15:51,840 Speaker 2: that all of those guys die. The problem is some 271 00:15:51,920 --> 00:15:54,160 Speaker 2: of the healthy cells are also going to die, and 272 00:15:54,200 --> 00:15:56,640 Speaker 2: that means that my hair is probably going to fall out. 273 00:15:57,160 --> 00:15:59,880 Speaker 2: But I don't want you to worry about my hair 274 00:16:00,080 --> 00:16:03,880 Speaker 2: falling out, because it's gonna grow back. And when all 275 00:16:03,880 --> 00:16:06,320 Speaker 2: the medicine is done and so the good cells will 276 00:16:06,320 --> 00:16:08,960 Speaker 2: come back and the bad cells are dead. 277 00:16:10,240 --> 00:16:14,520 Speaker 1: That was that did she have a very anxious response. 278 00:16:14,800 --> 00:16:17,040 Speaker 1: I know that you were dealing, I think you said, 279 00:16:17,160 --> 00:16:19,600 Speaker 1: and correct me if I'm wrong. That she was struggling 280 00:16:19,720 --> 00:16:22,440 Speaker 1: with some anxiety around the divorce stuff. 281 00:16:23,280 --> 00:16:27,600 Speaker 2: Yeah, she had just generalized anxiety her whole life, and 282 00:16:27,680 --> 00:16:29,920 Speaker 2: so that was part of why I was so worried 283 00:16:30,360 --> 00:16:34,120 Speaker 2: about explaining this to her. But when I first told 284 00:16:34,120 --> 00:16:37,480 Speaker 2: her about the cancer, she came out of my bed 285 00:16:37,640 --> 00:16:39,320 Speaker 2: or her bedroom where I was telling her, and she 286 00:16:39,480 --> 00:16:42,840 Speaker 2: was like, Mommy told me, And my mom was like, 287 00:16:42,880 --> 00:16:46,640 Speaker 2: what did she tell? You, and she's like, she has something. 288 00:16:46,800 --> 00:16:49,120 Speaker 2: I don't remember what it was called, but it's little 289 00:16:49,120 --> 00:16:54,680 Speaker 2: and it's gonna be okay. So initially it was fine. 290 00:16:55,440 --> 00:16:57,760 Speaker 1: I think things like this are so important when you 291 00:16:57,960 --> 00:17:01,480 Speaker 1: commit to a confident like I think Katie's Crib has 292 00:17:01,480 --> 00:17:02,920 Speaker 1: done this for me, and I hope that it's done 293 00:17:02,960 --> 00:17:06,240 Speaker 1: this for our listeners. And it's something that you're talking 294 00:17:06,280 --> 00:17:10,879 Speaker 1: about again, which is I know that it's important to 295 00:17:10,920 --> 00:17:14,800 Speaker 1: tell my kids hard things and good things and all 296 00:17:14,840 --> 00:17:18,239 Speaker 1: in between, and it's important to communicate with them in 297 00:17:18,280 --> 00:17:25,040 Speaker 1: a developmentally appropriate way. But I feel like the confidence 298 00:17:25,200 --> 00:17:28,120 Speaker 1: in that I know, even if it's hard to tell 299 00:17:28,160 --> 00:17:32,119 Speaker 1: them that I am doing the best choice that I 300 00:17:32,160 --> 00:17:35,399 Speaker 1: can as a mother by telling them and not keeping 301 00:17:35,440 --> 00:17:38,320 Speaker 1: it from them already, I feel like puts us leagues 302 00:17:38,359 --> 00:17:41,320 Speaker 1: ahead than our parents' generation and their generation before them. 303 00:17:41,840 --> 00:17:45,760 Speaker 2: My aunt died from breast cancer at forty two. She 304 00:17:45,840 --> 00:17:50,879 Speaker 2: did not tell her children. They are still very upset 305 00:17:50,920 --> 00:17:56,200 Speaker 2: about that. It has affected our family in a way 306 00:17:56,320 --> 00:17:59,840 Speaker 2: that I just thought, never ever would I ever do 307 00:17:59,880 --> 00:18:03,880 Speaker 2: that to my children, And it also traumatized me because 308 00:18:03,920 --> 00:18:07,000 Speaker 2: I'm like my cousins all had to get married, have 309 00:18:07,080 --> 00:18:11,199 Speaker 2: their babies without their mom there. The likelihood is high 310 00:18:11,440 --> 00:18:14,960 Speaker 2: that I had the same type of cancer that killed her. Right, 311 00:18:15,000 --> 00:18:20,880 Speaker 2: but that's the difference between twenty seventeen and nineteen eighty two. 312 00:18:21,200 --> 00:18:24,320 Speaker 1: That's right, that's right. Wait, hold on one second. I 313 00:18:24,359 --> 00:18:26,080 Speaker 1: just have someone at my door. Hold on, it's my child, 314 00:18:26,119 --> 00:18:29,160 Speaker 1: and I'm going to tell them to go away. Hold on. 315 00:18:29,359 --> 00:18:40,960 Speaker 3: Oh no, oh my god. 316 00:18:41,040 --> 00:18:47,520 Speaker 1: Children. Okay, So how does the vocabulary change when you're 317 00:18:47,520 --> 00:18:52,640 Speaker 1: communicating with your child after you told them, told her 318 00:18:52,720 --> 00:18:56,639 Speaker 1: you have cancer, and now you tell her that I 319 00:18:56,720 --> 00:18:58,840 Speaker 1: just want to go back. So I think that vocabulary 320 00:18:58,920 --> 00:19:02,119 Speaker 1: is important. When you realized that it was going to 321 00:19:02,160 --> 00:19:04,879 Speaker 1: not be such an easy the easier fix that you 322 00:19:04,920 --> 00:19:07,159 Speaker 1: thought it was going to be, Like, did you say, 323 00:19:07,560 --> 00:19:11,640 Speaker 1: I have to let you know that the information has changed? 324 00:19:12,280 --> 00:19:13,320 Speaker 1: What did you say to her? 325 00:19:13,880 --> 00:19:19,040 Speaker 2: I said, so in the time that it took for 326 00:19:19,200 --> 00:19:21,960 Speaker 2: me to have the surgery, and the first time that 327 00:19:22,000 --> 00:19:26,000 Speaker 2: they saw the picture, the little guys had moved and 328 00:19:26,080 --> 00:19:29,600 Speaker 2: they're made more And it turned out they were doing 329 00:19:29,640 --> 00:19:33,920 Speaker 2: that quickly, and so now they're gone. They got all 330 00:19:33,960 --> 00:19:37,000 Speaker 2: of them out, but they want to make sure that 331 00:19:37,200 --> 00:19:40,000 Speaker 2: because they're so tiny, they want to make sure any 332 00:19:40,040 --> 00:19:44,360 Speaker 2: of them are gone forever. As time goes on and 333 00:19:44,720 --> 00:19:48,640 Speaker 2: science changes and learns more things. The way that they're 334 00:19:48,640 --> 00:19:51,840 Speaker 2: looking at cancer is different now is even if you 335 00:19:51,920 --> 00:19:56,120 Speaker 2: have stage four cancer, which is cancer that has spread 336 00:19:56,440 --> 00:19:58,960 Speaker 2: and you will have it will be the thing that 337 00:19:59,080 --> 00:20:01,359 Speaker 2: kills you at some point, burn getting hit by a 338 00:20:01,359 --> 00:20:07,159 Speaker 2: truck or something that has been a death sentence in 339 00:20:07,320 --> 00:20:11,000 Speaker 2: years pasture and now they are looking at that more 340 00:20:11,040 --> 00:20:15,080 Speaker 2: of living with a chronic illness. People have lived for 341 00:20:15,160 --> 00:20:19,520 Speaker 2: twenty years with stage four, so it doesn't always mean 342 00:20:19,840 --> 00:20:24,439 Speaker 2: that's it for you. The way that I explain this, 343 00:20:24,480 --> 00:20:27,280 Speaker 2: because what I did from all of this explaining was 344 00:20:27,320 --> 00:20:29,760 Speaker 2: I wrote my first children's book about cancer. 345 00:20:29,880 --> 00:20:34,119 Speaker 1: Okay, congratulations, that's amazing, and on behalf of myself and 346 00:20:34,119 --> 00:20:36,000 Speaker 1: our listeners, thank you for doing that. 347 00:20:36,400 --> 00:20:39,280 Speaker 2: Thank you. But at the end, the way that I 348 00:20:39,400 --> 00:20:45,399 Speaker 2: explain metastatic disease is that some people will live with 349 00:20:45,440 --> 00:20:47,680 Speaker 2: cancer for the rest of their lives, and they will 350 00:20:47,760 --> 00:20:50,480 Speaker 2: keep going to the doctor, and they will have different 351 00:20:50,520 --> 00:20:54,480 Speaker 2: types of medicines, and they will always let you know 352 00:20:55,160 --> 00:20:58,439 Speaker 2: what is going on. You can trust your grown up 353 00:20:58,560 --> 00:21:03,520 Speaker 2: to tell you when something is going on. So we 354 00:21:03,640 --> 00:21:06,359 Speaker 2: have to be honest with ourselves and our kids that 355 00:21:06,480 --> 00:21:12,080 Speaker 2: sometimes things change, and that is a difficult thing for 356 00:21:12,200 --> 00:21:14,560 Speaker 2: most humans to deal with. Most of us don't like 357 00:21:14,640 --> 00:21:17,840 Speaker 2: change of any kind, but especially when somebody has told 358 00:21:17,840 --> 00:21:19,719 Speaker 2: you something is true and then it turns out to 359 00:21:19,760 --> 00:21:23,359 Speaker 2: not be true, and that's just rude. We just have 360 00:21:23,400 --> 00:21:25,840 Speaker 2: to be honest with our kids and say this is 361 00:21:25,880 --> 00:21:28,600 Speaker 2: what we thought, and unfortunately it turned out to be 362 00:21:28,680 --> 00:21:30,679 Speaker 2: something different or things have changed. 363 00:21:31,600 --> 00:21:35,840 Speaker 1: How was your daughter's mental health at the time and 364 00:21:35,880 --> 00:21:38,359 Speaker 1: getting through I know we were touching on her anxiety, 365 00:21:38,400 --> 00:21:41,680 Speaker 1: but was she in therapy at the time. What tools? 366 00:21:41,800 --> 00:21:43,959 Speaker 1: I know you said you got books that were crap 367 00:21:44,760 --> 00:21:48,879 Speaker 1: you so you wrote your own. What tools did you 368 00:21:49,000 --> 00:21:52,119 Speaker 1: use to get her through your cancer treatments? 369 00:21:52,560 --> 00:21:57,640 Speaker 2: I was really worried about her. She was acting relatively normal, 370 00:21:58,000 --> 00:22:01,040 Speaker 2: and I just thought there must be some kind of 371 00:22:01,119 --> 00:22:03,439 Speaker 2: like thing that she's processing inside that's going to come 372 00:22:03,440 --> 00:22:06,359 Speaker 2: out later and be just like really awful. But she 373 00:22:06,480 --> 00:22:10,040 Speaker 2: handled it a lot better than I ever expected, and 374 00:22:10,119 --> 00:22:14,240 Speaker 2: I think part of that was because I knew all 375 00:22:14,280 --> 00:22:18,360 Speaker 2: of these things about what helps prevent traumatic things from 376 00:22:18,400 --> 00:22:22,320 Speaker 2: being traumatic, and that is talking about it, showing your 377 00:22:22,400 --> 00:22:26,480 Speaker 2: kids what to expect. I created a whole calendar to 378 00:22:26,600 --> 00:22:28,840 Speaker 2: show her what to expect out of my treatment. This 379 00:22:28,920 --> 00:22:31,000 Speaker 2: is a day that I'm going to have chemo. This 380 00:22:31,040 --> 00:22:33,720 Speaker 2: is how I'm probably going to be feeling tired for 381 00:22:33,760 --> 00:22:37,640 Speaker 2: a few days. That helped a lot. The other thing 382 00:22:37,680 --> 00:22:40,399 Speaker 2: that really helped, which I never thought I would be 383 00:22:40,600 --> 00:22:45,600 Speaker 2: grateful to be divorced, but her dad remarried pretty quickly 384 00:22:45,640 --> 00:22:48,679 Speaker 2: after we divorced and they had a baby, and the 385 00:22:48,760 --> 00:22:52,399 Speaker 2: baby was born like before I was diagnosed, and so 386 00:22:52,680 --> 00:22:56,280 Speaker 2: he was a really great distraction for my daughter because 387 00:22:56,320 --> 00:22:59,399 Speaker 2: she was like, I have a brother, and so was 388 00:23:00,480 --> 00:23:04,200 Speaker 2: total gift and it completely changed our co parenting relationship 389 00:23:04,320 --> 00:23:07,560 Speaker 2: my having cancer. I just didn't have the energy to 390 00:23:07,680 --> 00:23:12,000 Speaker 2: deal with Wow, dramatic, interesting, And it made me realize 391 00:23:12,280 --> 00:23:16,400 Speaker 2: so much of these relationships that are just like difficult 392 00:23:16,560 --> 00:23:20,880 Speaker 2: or you're like butting heads is just letting go and 393 00:23:21,000 --> 00:23:23,840 Speaker 2: just saying you know what you do a you. I 394 00:23:23,880 --> 00:23:26,160 Speaker 2: don't have the energy to deal with you in your 395 00:23:26,240 --> 00:23:28,720 Speaker 2: like ways that you do things that's different than me. 396 00:23:29,520 --> 00:23:30,840 Speaker 2: I just can't. 397 00:23:31,080 --> 00:23:33,359 Speaker 1: So mommy's not going to feel her best self and 398 00:23:33,400 --> 00:23:36,359 Speaker 1: she might be very tired. Did she ever see you 399 00:23:36,520 --> 00:23:39,280 Speaker 1: very sick? Did she see you lose your hair? Were 400 00:23:39,280 --> 00:23:41,280 Speaker 1: those conversations that were had. 401 00:23:41,640 --> 00:23:46,040 Speaker 2: Yes, so I actually involved her in the process. I 402 00:23:46,200 --> 00:23:48,560 Speaker 2: had long, red, curly hair that. 403 00:23:48,680 --> 00:23:52,040 Speaker 1: Was like, my so beautiful, it's so beautiful now, thank you. 404 00:23:52,760 --> 00:23:55,800 Speaker 2: Yeah, I loved it, and so I knew it was 405 00:23:55,840 --> 00:23:58,240 Speaker 2: going to fall out, and I'd never had a short haircut. 406 00:23:58,320 --> 00:24:01,520 Speaker 2: So we went to a lot. My girlfriends were the 407 00:24:01,680 --> 00:24:04,520 Speaker 2: absolute best. They got me an appointment to have my 408 00:24:04,600 --> 00:24:07,760 Speaker 2: hair cut short and sassy, and my daughter and my 409 00:24:07,800 --> 00:24:10,080 Speaker 2: mom came to and each of them got a pink 410 00:24:10,160 --> 00:24:13,960 Speaker 2: stripe in their hair. And then when it started to 411 00:24:14,080 --> 00:24:18,400 Speaker 2: fall out, I let my daughter cut my hair, and 412 00:24:18,600 --> 00:24:22,280 Speaker 2: so I will tell you I took a video of 413 00:24:22,440 --> 00:24:24,240 Speaker 2: a time lapse of the whole thing. 414 00:24:24,880 --> 00:24:25,600 Speaker 1: Wow. 415 00:24:25,840 --> 00:24:28,639 Speaker 2: There were times where I thought, for sure I should 416 00:24:28,640 --> 00:24:33,960 Speaker 2: not have given the six year old scissors. I was like, 417 00:24:34,040 --> 00:24:36,840 Speaker 2: she's gonna kill me. But hey, it was definitely a 418 00:24:36,920 --> 00:24:40,640 Speaker 2: memory I will never forget, and it helped her, I think, 419 00:24:40,680 --> 00:24:45,120 Speaker 2: feel like she was participating in something. We were laughing 420 00:24:45,200 --> 00:24:49,200 Speaker 2: about it. I think involving her as much as possible 421 00:24:49,640 --> 00:24:53,399 Speaker 2: was good. It's different based on different ages, So early 422 00:24:53,440 --> 00:24:58,000 Speaker 2: elementary school, younger kids they usually want to talk about it, 423 00:24:58,280 --> 00:25:02,200 Speaker 2: and adolescence. Depending on the kids some of them don't, 424 00:25:02,680 --> 00:25:05,359 Speaker 2: and that's okay too. So I think it's just a 425 00:25:05,400 --> 00:25:08,199 Speaker 2: matter of the ways that you make this easier for 426 00:25:08,359 --> 00:25:12,720 Speaker 2: kids is by understanding that they need to feel like 427 00:25:12,760 --> 00:25:15,000 Speaker 2: they can come to you with literally anything and you're 428 00:25:15,000 --> 00:25:17,160 Speaker 2: not going to get mad at them. They can ask 429 00:25:17,200 --> 00:25:20,640 Speaker 2: you any question, right, And that's why bringing in books, 430 00:25:20,680 --> 00:25:24,760 Speaker 2: bringing in the calendar, their physical reminders to the kid 431 00:25:24,800 --> 00:25:27,800 Speaker 2: that if they have any questions, you are open to 432 00:25:27,920 --> 00:25:32,159 Speaker 2: answering them. It's when things are quiet, it's when the 433 00:25:32,200 --> 00:25:35,520 Speaker 2: book is closed. It's when you make it so they 434 00:25:35,600 --> 00:25:37,520 Speaker 2: can't feel safe. 435 00:25:37,680 --> 00:25:41,040 Speaker 1: Or that you're not honest too. Like they know they 436 00:25:41,160 --> 00:25:46,640 Speaker 1: know when something's up, guys, they know they know, yes, 437 00:25:47,000 --> 00:25:48,960 Speaker 1: like done this morning. I'm on so little sleep because 438 00:25:48,960 --> 00:25:50,560 Speaker 1: we were at a premiere last night and I was 439 00:25:50,680 --> 00:25:52,639 Speaker 1: cranky and he's like, what's going on? 440 00:25:52,720 --> 00:25:52,880 Speaker 3: Mom? 441 00:25:52,920 --> 00:25:55,320 Speaker 1: You're so frustrated? You know what I mean? Even though 442 00:25:55,400 --> 00:25:58,800 Speaker 1: I don't not saying like, Mommy is on too little sleep. 443 00:25:59,240 --> 00:26:04,399 Speaker 1: So approaching your books, how are they different than the 444 00:26:04,440 --> 00:26:06,840 Speaker 1: stuff that you were not getting what you needed? 445 00:26:07,760 --> 00:26:09,440 Speaker 2: So now I have nine books? 446 00:26:09,600 --> 00:26:13,720 Speaker 1: Please? Yeah, thank Sarah. That's awesome. Yeah. 447 00:26:13,760 --> 00:26:16,800 Speaker 2: So the main difference in the books I have a 448 00:26:16,840 --> 00:26:20,560 Speaker 2: series called what About Me Books. The point of them 449 00:26:20,680 --> 00:26:24,960 Speaker 2: is to take hard conversations, explain them to kids as 450 00:26:25,000 --> 00:26:27,920 Speaker 2: far as what it is it's actually going on, but 451 00:26:27,960 --> 00:26:32,879 Speaker 2: then also explain how it affects the kid's life, because kids, 452 00:26:32,880 --> 00:26:36,360 Speaker 2: from a developmental point of view, the whole world revolves 453 00:26:36,400 --> 00:26:40,280 Speaker 2: around them, and they want to know what it means. Okay, 454 00:26:40,320 --> 00:26:42,439 Speaker 2: mommy is sick. Does that mean I'm going to be 455 00:26:42,520 --> 00:26:46,240 Speaker 2: left alone? What does that mean to me? And so 456 00:26:46,560 --> 00:26:49,600 Speaker 2: all of the books are like, this is what's happening, 457 00:26:49,800 --> 00:26:52,760 Speaker 2: now what about the kid? And there's a calendar, like 458 00:26:52,800 --> 00:26:55,359 Speaker 2: a drawing of a calendar in each one of the books, 459 00:26:55,400 --> 00:26:57,480 Speaker 2: and it says, this is how your day to day 460 00:26:57,560 --> 00:27:00,320 Speaker 2: is going to be affected by this hard thing, and 461 00:27:00,880 --> 00:27:02,199 Speaker 2: that is what makes them different. 462 00:27:02,800 --> 00:27:06,080 Speaker 1: Wow, that's so great. It's how it's related to the 463 00:27:06,200 --> 00:27:08,600 Speaker 1: kid and the kid's life. Yes, we don't take that 464 00:27:08,640 --> 00:27:10,640 Speaker 1: into consideration. That's really smart. 465 00:27:10,920 --> 00:27:15,360 Speaker 2: Storytelling is an important way of explaining things to kids 466 00:27:15,440 --> 00:27:18,520 Speaker 2: and having them be able to put their put themselves 467 00:27:18,560 --> 00:27:22,119 Speaker 2: in someone else's shoes, like a story about a dog dying, 468 00:27:22,320 --> 00:27:26,400 Speaker 2: et cetera, and the feelings that character had. But there's 469 00:27:26,800 --> 00:27:30,480 Speaker 2: there was a whole segment missing of this is what 470 00:27:30,520 --> 00:27:33,720 Speaker 2: it is, this is how it affects your life, This 471 00:27:33,760 --> 00:27:37,840 Speaker 2: is what it means to have cancer. And then later 472 00:27:38,040 --> 00:27:41,240 Speaker 2: some of these other books where kids are their mommy 473 00:27:41,280 --> 00:27:44,280 Speaker 2: has breast cancer. All the books were about breast cancer. 474 00:27:44,520 --> 00:27:48,679 Speaker 2: Was the other thing that really frustrated me, because, for 475 00:27:48,760 --> 00:27:51,400 Speaker 2: the love of all things good and holy, people. 476 00:27:51,600 --> 00:27:54,040 Speaker 1: Come on people, good Lord. 477 00:27:54,280 --> 00:27:57,359 Speaker 2: I'm like, why must we make this breast cancer specific 478 00:27:57,520 --> 00:28:01,040 Speaker 2: or mommy specific? So all of my books apply to 479 00:28:01,400 --> 00:28:05,119 Speaker 2: any type of cancer. My divorce books, there's a version 480 00:28:05,200 --> 00:28:08,159 Speaker 2: for two moms and a version for two dads. I 481 00:28:08,320 --> 00:28:13,600 Speaker 2: want it so that people of all kinds can see themselves. 482 00:28:13,640 --> 00:28:16,679 Speaker 1: Feel represented, and they see themselves in the book, and 483 00:28:16,880 --> 00:28:22,639 Speaker 1: it's their pathway into these hard, difficult conversations with our children. 484 00:28:31,600 --> 00:28:35,320 Speaker 1: After the separation your husband, the divorce is final, you 485 00:28:35,440 --> 00:28:39,719 Speaker 1: moved out in separate houses. How did she deal with that? 486 00:28:39,840 --> 00:28:42,160 Speaker 1: And then let's talk about how did she deal once 487 00:28:42,200 --> 00:28:45,640 Speaker 1: you were through the chemotherapy rounds. 488 00:28:46,680 --> 00:28:51,320 Speaker 2: Yeah, I think it becomes your new normal, and it's 489 00:28:51,720 --> 00:28:57,760 Speaker 2: a matter of making that new normal as normal as possible. 490 00:28:58,320 --> 00:29:02,440 Speaker 2: That's all life is, change up, change after change. So 491 00:29:02,800 --> 00:29:05,200 Speaker 2: it just became a new normal where that is what 492 00:29:05,320 --> 00:29:09,720 Speaker 2: we talk about that is how things are there with 493 00:29:10,040 --> 00:29:14,320 Speaker 2: regards to the divorce. I think there it's grieving, and 494 00:29:14,880 --> 00:29:18,520 Speaker 2: I think I think if we I listened to your 495 00:29:18,560 --> 00:29:21,400 Speaker 2: episode with Teresa Caputo and she was. 496 00:29:21,400 --> 00:29:24,880 Speaker 1: Told, my goodness, my girl, I love her. 497 00:29:25,040 --> 00:29:26,800 Speaker 2: Yes, but one of the things that she was talking 498 00:29:26,800 --> 00:29:30,880 Speaker 2: about is these everyday losses. That is a big part 499 00:29:31,120 --> 00:29:34,480 Speaker 2: of what I do is trying to explain to parents 500 00:29:35,040 --> 00:29:39,480 Speaker 2: that anytime there's a change, it's grief. For kids, grief 501 00:29:39,560 --> 00:29:42,720 Speaker 2: is when anything is taken away from you without your consent, 502 00:29:43,480 --> 00:29:49,920 Speaker 2: and for kids, so much happens to them and feels 503 00:29:50,000 --> 00:29:53,560 Speaker 2: out of their control. If we have empathy for our 504 00:29:53,640 --> 00:29:57,480 Speaker 2: kids and think if someone had died, is this how 505 00:29:57,520 --> 00:29:59,920 Speaker 2: we would be treating our kids? Would be be fresh 506 00:30:00,040 --> 00:30:02,760 Speaker 2: straight at them for talking about their other parent who 507 00:30:02,840 --> 00:30:07,080 Speaker 2: has died. Would we want them to just get over it? No, 508 00:30:07,600 --> 00:30:10,040 Speaker 2: we would want them to feel supported. We would want 509 00:30:10,040 --> 00:30:12,320 Speaker 2: them to know that no matter what, they are loved. 510 00:30:12,680 --> 00:30:15,680 Speaker 2: We would want them to know that if they are upset, 511 00:30:15,720 --> 00:30:20,040 Speaker 2: they can get a hug. The problem is balancing that 512 00:30:20,080 --> 00:30:23,000 Speaker 2: with our own mental health, because when kids are going 513 00:30:23,040 --> 00:30:26,360 Speaker 2: through something difficult, the whole family is going through something difficult. 514 00:30:27,000 --> 00:30:32,760 Speaker 2: And parents are on a good day at capacity, and 515 00:30:32,840 --> 00:30:36,479 Speaker 2: so how do we balance these two things right? And 516 00:30:36,520 --> 00:30:40,320 Speaker 2: the answer for my family is freaking screen time. And 517 00:30:40,400 --> 00:30:43,360 Speaker 2: if I hear one more ep in person tell me 518 00:30:43,680 --> 00:30:48,440 Speaker 2: screen time is terrible, I'm screw you. I need this 519 00:30:49,200 --> 00:30:51,600 Speaker 2: going through a freaking divorce and I need to go 520 00:30:51,800 --> 00:30:55,760 Speaker 2: into my bedroom and just breathe for a fricking minute. 521 00:30:56,040 --> 00:30:59,640 Speaker 1: I get it. I think the pandemic I'm hoping changed 522 00:30:59,720 --> 00:31:03,360 Speaker 1: things in that when we all sort of hit this 523 00:31:03,520 --> 00:31:07,440 Speaker 1: like this stop and we were like, oh my god, 524 00:31:08,640 --> 00:31:11,520 Speaker 1: if we have to put on the television. And yet 525 00:31:11,600 --> 00:31:13,920 Speaker 1: still you're not wrong. I still feel bad about it. 526 00:31:13,920 --> 00:31:14,960 Speaker 1: It's so stupid. 527 00:31:15,600 --> 00:31:18,320 Speaker 2: I was talking to a therapist who deal specifically with 528 00:31:18,400 --> 00:31:22,440 Speaker 2: postpartum moms and she's like, show me the study that 529 00:31:22,520 --> 00:31:25,400 Speaker 2: says screen time is worse for kids than a parent 530 00:31:25,440 --> 00:31:26,480 Speaker 2: with poor mental health. 531 00:31:26,840 --> 00:31:30,680 Speaker 1: Oh, it's not. And also Mike Charlie, Yeah, and yeah, yeah, Mike, 532 00:31:30,760 --> 00:31:34,040 Speaker 1: drop leave it right there. Emily Ostur, who has been 533 00:31:34,040 --> 00:31:36,480 Speaker 1: on this podcast and only deals with things in terms 534 00:31:36,520 --> 00:31:40,080 Speaker 1: of statistics and facts, it's not true about screen time 535 00:31:40,160 --> 00:31:42,360 Speaker 1: at all, But you still feel bad about it because 536 00:31:42,400 --> 00:31:45,360 Speaker 1: mob guilt is a real thing. What I'm getting and 537 00:31:45,360 --> 00:31:47,560 Speaker 1: correct me if I'm wrong. What I'm getting from both 538 00:31:47,640 --> 00:31:52,040 Speaker 1: your divorce experience and your cancer experience is that your 539 00:31:52,120 --> 00:31:53,800 Speaker 1: daughter did Okay. 540 00:31:54,240 --> 00:31:59,840 Speaker 2: Yes, she she does grieve still over our families said 541 00:32:00,000 --> 00:32:05,640 Speaker 2: suation mostly, and I think putting her in situations where 542 00:32:05,640 --> 00:32:09,360 Speaker 2: she wasn't the only one is really helpful. Knowing other 543 00:32:09,440 --> 00:32:12,680 Speaker 2: kids of divorce so she's not the only one, knowing 544 00:32:12,800 --> 00:32:17,200 Speaker 2: other kids who have a parent with cancer, so that 545 00:32:17,240 --> 00:32:19,240 Speaker 2: she isn't the only one, and she feels that sense 546 00:32:19,280 --> 00:32:23,200 Speaker 2: of community is really important. And then I also think 547 00:32:23,400 --> 00:32:27,200 Speaker 2: all the research that I did about mental health when 548 00:32:27,200 --> 00:32:30,680 Speaker 2: we hit the pandemic was when I started to realize 549 00:32:30,880 --> 00:32:33,680 Speaker 2: just how little resources there were out there for kids. 550 00:32:34,440 --> 00:32:37,800 Speaker 2: And really it has always been difficult to find a 551 00:32:37,920 --> 00:32:43,280 Speaker 2: child therapist. But I also think parents don't feel capable 552 00:32:43,400 --> 00:32:46,120 Speaker 2: to handle a lot of things on their own, and 553 00:32:46,240 --> 00:32:50,760 Speaker 2: so I think they don't really realize how much they 554 00:32:50,760 --> 00:32:54,240 Speaker 2: can actually help. I think we think a therapist has 555 00:32:54,400 --> 00:32:56,320 Speaker 2: a degree, and so they're going to be able to 556 00:32:56,360 --> 00:32:59,719 Speaker 2: do things that we can't. And in some cases that 557 00:32:59,840 --> 00:33:02,560 Speaker 2: is true. We don't have the skills. So if there's 558 00:33:02,600 --> 00:33:05,880 Speaker 2: like a crisis situation, obviously getting a professional to help 559 00:33:05,920 --> 00:33:09,840 Speaker 2: us really important, but like to know that your parent 560 00:33:09,920 --> 00:33:13,600 Speaker 2: child relationship, like you need to work on this stuff, 561 00:33:13,640 --> 00:33:17,520 Speaker 2: these skills in addition to therapy or while you're on 562 00:33:17,560 --> 00:33:21,880 Speaker 2: the waiting list. It is up to parents to teach 563 00:33:21,920 --> 00:33:25,520 Speaker 2: these skills to their kids. Because a pandemic is a 564 00:33:25,760 --> 00:33:26,680 Speaker 2: very hard thing. 565 00:33:27,480 --> 00:33:30,280 Speaker 1: It's another tough thing to talk on that list of 566 00:33:30,360 --> 00:33:33,920 Speaker 1: like tough things that we need to talk about with 567 00:33:34,000 --> 00:33:39,000 Speaker 1: our children. Why are books such a great way in. 568 00:33:40,360 --> 00:33:46,040 Speaker 2: Kids learn by repetition and they learn from visual images. 569 00:33:46,560 --> 00:33:50,920 Speaker 2: And the great thing about a book is it's there 570 00:33:51,440 --> 00:33:54,320 Speaker 2: and it doesn't change every time you read it. It's 571 00:33:54,320 --> 00:33:57,840 Speaker 2: the same. We might explain a topic and say it 572 00:33:57,960 --> 00:34:00,200 Speaker 2: slightly differently each time, and that. 573 00:34:00,240 --> 00:34:03,040 Speaker 1: Can be confused, amusing, It's sure. 574 00:34:03,240 --> 00:34:06,080 Speaker 2: Having that initial conversation is really good and then having 575 00:34:06,120 --> 00:34:08,000 Speaker 2: the book to back it up so that you can 576 00:34:08,040 --> 00:34:11,719 Speaker 2: constantly read it. How many of us have a kid 577 00:34:11,719 --> 00:34:14,120 Speaker 2: who chose like a favorite book and then we were 578 00:34:14,320 --> 00:34:17,399 Speaker 2: just like so done with it. There's a book from 579 00:34:17,440 --> 00:34:20,560 Speaker 2: my daughter's childhood, she was like three, she could recite 580 00:34:20,560 --> 00:34:21,399 Speaker 2: the whole freakin thing. 581 00:34:22,120 --> 00:34:26,279 Speaker 1: Sure, of course, of course that's how much you read it? Yes, exactly, absolutely, 582 00:34:26,400 --> 00:34:29,839 Speaker 1: it's absolutely I think it's such a such a great 583 00:34:29,840 --> 00:34:32,359 Speaker 1: way in two because if you are a person that 584 00:34:32,440 --> 00:34:35,520 Speaker 1: comes from a family where hard things were not discussed, 585 00:34:36,640 --> 00:34:40,000 Speaker 1: you feel out of practice and that you literally don't 586 00:34:40,000 --> 00:34:43,600 Speaker 1: have the vocabulary. You don't even know how or what 587 00:34:43,719 --> 00:34:46,839 Speaker 1: to say. And so by using the book, like we've 588 00:34:46,880 --> 00:34:49,960 Speaker 1: done tons of topics in this podcast on race or 589 00:34:50,040 --> 00:34:53,120 Speaker 1: sex or things like that, and I come from a 590 00:34:53,200 --> 00:34:56,640 Speaker 1: family that never talked about race, and it was important 591 00:34:56,719 --> 00:34:59,880 Speaker 1: to me to find the right books so I could 592 00:35:00,280 --> 00:35:04,200 Speaker 1: myself with the correct vocabulary to talk about race to 593 00:35:04,239 --> 00:35:08,799 Speaker 1: my kids because I didn't know. And similarly, like I 594 00:35:08,840 --> 00:35:11,719 Speaker 1: wouldn't know the words to say if I got a 595 00:35:11,760 --> 00:35:15,240 Speaker 1: cancer diagnosis or my husband and I were facing divorce, 596 00:35:15,320 --> 00:35:17,680 Speaker 1: Like and to go back to this, I know we 597 00:35:17,760 --> 00:35:20,400 Speaker 1: touched on a little bit. So your books are different 598 00:35:20,440 --> 00:35:22,520 Speaker 1: than the crap that was out of there. 599 00:35:25,120 --> 00:35:28,440 Speaker 2: Also, the illustrations were freaking terrifying. There was one that 600 00:35:28,560 --> 00:35:31,600 Speaker 2: was talking about going to the hospital. I swear to 601 00:35:31,640 --> 00:35:34,680 Speaker 2: you the doctor looked like possessed was. 602 00:35:35,160 --> 00:35:39,279 Speaker 1: A freak night. Okay, So like the illas, because you 603 00:35:39,480 --> 00:35:43,480 Speaker 1: have an illustrative background, you were very particular on what 604 00:35:43,560 --> 00:35:48,160 Speaker 1: the pictures look like. Yeah, and then it always goes 605 00:35:48,320 --> 00:35:50,920 Speaker 1: back to how it affects the kid because they are 606 00:35:51,040 --> 00:35:54,040 Speaker 1: the center of their world at this time in their life. 607 00:35:54,120 --> 00:35:57,759 Speaker 1: That's that we know is true. So now let's get 608 00:35:57,760 --> 00:36:01,799 Speaker 1: into the calendars you sell. I love this idea. I 609 00:36:01,840 --> 00:36:07,560 Speaker 1: think it's so smart. My son is constantly he feels 610 00:36:07,800 --> 00:36:10,920 Speaker 1: ill at not at ease if he doesn't know who's 611 00:36:10,920 --> 00:36:14,240 Speaker 1: picking him up, who's dropping him off, those sorts of things. 612 00:36:14,320 --> 00:36:16,120 Speaker 1: And when I was doing research on you, I was like, 613 00:36:16,160 --> 00:36:18,840 Speaker 1: oh my god, why have I never put up a 614 00:36:18,880 --> 00:36:23,400 Speaker 1: calendar of the week with little So I bought one. 615 00:36:23,520 --> 00:36:25,480 Speaker 1: How did the calendar idea come up? 616 00:36:25,520 --> 00:36:25,800 Speaker 3: Again? 617 00:36:26,200 --> 00:36:29,319 Speaker 2: It was the therapist telling me that she telling my 618 00:36:29,400 --> 00:36:32,920 Speaker 2: daughter she was going on vacation, and so then I 619 00:36:33,040 --> 00:36:37,319 Speaker 2: just started doing research. Initially I had created one that 620 00:36:37,360 --> 00:36:41,640 Speaker 2: showed two weeks at a time, and then as I 621 00:36:42,640 --> 00:36:46,480 Speaker 2: am like really anal about making my house pretty and 622 00:36:46,560 --> 00:36:48,640 Speaker 2: so I didn't want one of these like really ugly 623 00:36:48,680 --> 00:36:51,880 Speaker 2: ass calendars. They're so fucking oh my god, I hate 624 00:36:51,920 --> 00:36:55,399 Speaker 2: primary colors. No, and so I was trying to make 625 00:36:55,480 --> 00:37:00,080 Speaker 2: it cuter and cuter as it had different iteration, and 626 00:37:01,000 --> 00:37:05,480 Speaker 2: realized when I started creating one for children with cancer 627 00:37:06,239 --> 00:37:11,040 Speaker 2: that the doctors and the childlife specialists are the people 628 00:37:11,080 --> 00:37:14,719 Speaker 2: that work with the children in hospitals. They only want 629 00:37:14,760 --> 00:37:17,280 Speaker 2: to show the kids one week at a time because 630 00:37:17,800 --> 00:37:23,000 Speaker 2: depending on the situation, it can be really overwhelming for 631 00:37:23,080 --> 00:37:27,640 Speaker 2: a kid multiple weeks. And the added benefit of it 632 00:37:28,000 --> 00:37:31,200 Speaker 2: was it created a perpetual calendar, so you could buy 633 00:37:31,320 --> 00:37:33,600 Speaker 2: like two three weeks at a time, and when you 634 00:37:33,640 --> 00:37:35,839 Speaker 2: get to the bottom, you erase that one and move 635 00:37:35,840 --> 00:37:37,799 Speaker 2: it to the top, so it's always up to date. 636 00:37:38,680 --> 00:37:41,000 Speaker 1: Wow. Yeah. 637 00:37:41,040 --> 00:37:44,080 Speaker 2: So there were a bunch of reasons why I made 638 00:37:44,120 --> 00:37:48,319 Speaker 2: it one week at a time, and they're useful for 639 00:37:48,480 --> 00:37:52,759 Speaker 2: kids of all ages. My daughter is twelve has been 640 00:37:52,840 --> 00:37:54,279 Speaker 2: using this since she was two. 641 00:37:55,040 --> 00:37:56,480 Speaker 1: Wow, Sarah. 642 00:37:57,480 --> 00:38:01,000 Speaker 2: Yeah, I really wanted to make sure that it was sturdy. 643 00:38:02,640 --> 00:38:07,680 Speaker 1: We know kids, Yeah, durable. Yeah, how can we use 644 00:38:07,760 --> 00:38:11,120 Speaker 1: your products to help? Like I had just touched on, 645 00:38:11,280 --> 00:38:15,239 Speaker 1: but with other hard topics like school shootings, we talked 646 00:38:15,239 --> 00:38:19,480 Speaker 1: about black lives matter, death, Yeah, smaller things. I mean, 647 00:38:20,080 --> 00:38:24,280 Speaker 1: obviously school shootings, black lives matter, these are big things. 648 00:38:24,920 --> 00:38:27,239 Speaker 1: But it was huge in my house when we had 649 00:38:27,280 --> 00:38:29,480 Speaker 1: to put my dog down like that was my child, 650 00:38:29,640 --> 00:38:33,319 Speaker 1: my four year old's first experience with death and brought 651 00:38:33,400 --> 00:38:36,600 Speaker 1: up a lot of death questions, and so how do 652 00:38:36,640 --> 00:38:39,640 Speaker 1: your products work with other hard topics. 653 00:38:40,840 --> 00:38:45,399 Speaker 2: Basically, structure is the first like visual structure is the 654 00:38:45,440 --> 00:38:48,640 Speaker 2: first thing that you need in order to help kids 655 00:38:48,719 --> 00:38:53,680 Speaker 2: cope every difficult thing that happens. The recommendation is always 656 00:38:53,800 --> 00:38:56,759 Speaker 2: stick to a routine as much as you possibly can, 657 00:38:57,239 --> 00:39:01,960 Speaker 2: and that's because it creates a content that helps children 658 00:39:02,080 --> 00:39:07,239 Speaker 2: feel safe when things are crazy. And it's like when 659 00:39:07,520 --> 00:39:10,719 Speaker 2: take divorce for example, like don't you're going from one 660 00:39:10,719 --> 00:39:14,200 Speaker 2: house to the next, but every day begins and ends 661 00:39:14,239 --> 00:39:18,520 Speaker 2: with sleep. Things are changing, but some things are the same. 662 00:39:18,719 --> 00:39:21,600 Speaker 2: And the more that you can show kids what their 663 00:39:21,680 --> 00:39:23,960 Speaker 2: routine is going to look like, the more that you 664 00:39:24,000 --> 00:39:28,839 Speaker 2: can predict and show them their lives, the less anxiety 665 00:39:28,920 --> 00:39:31,440 Speaker 2: they're going to feel. So, even if it has nothing 666 00:39:31,520 --> 00:39:36,400 Speaker 2: to do with our political climate or death or whatever, 667 00:39:36,440 --> 00:39:40,600 Speaker 2: the hard thing is, just showing them what to expect 668 00:39:40,640 --> 00:39:43,160 Speaker 2: out of their day to day is going to help 669 00:39:43,200 --> 00:39:44,840 Speaker 2: them cope and make them feel safer. 670 00:39:45,520 --> 00:39:49,799 Speaker 1: Love it. What are three things needed for kids to 671 00:39:49,880 --> 00:39:51,800 Speaker 1: get through challenging times? 672 00:39:52,680 --> 00:39:55,759 Speaker 2: One thing that I when I heard the statistic, it 673 00:39:55,840 --> 00:40:00,120 Speaker 2: made my hearts sink. They need one loving adult one 674 00:40:00,480 --> 00:40:02,640 Speaker 2: So if you are going through a terrible divorce and 675 00:40:02,680 --> 00:40:06,280 Speaker 2: your ex is a crazy person. Know that your kids 676 00:40:06,320 --> 00:40:10,160 Speaker 2: need one loving, stable adult. So if you can be 677 00:40:10,239 --> 00:40:14,200 Speaker 2: that person for your kid that they need. Yep, so 678 00:40:14,480 --> 00:40:19,120 Speaker 2: one loving adult who values a parent child relationship. They 679 00:40:19,200 --> 00:40:22,600 Speaker 2: need structure, routines, They need to know what to expect 680 00:40:22,719 --> 00:40:25,200 Speaker 2: out of their lives, and they need to know that 681 00:40:25,239 --> 00:40:26,560 Speaker 2: they can come to you with anything. 682 00:40:29,080 --> 00:40:31,719 Speaker 1: That's it. I feel like if we all just did that, 683 00:40:32,360 --> 00:40:35,000 Speaker 1: the world would be a better place. Am I too 684 00:40:35,080 --> 00:40:36,200 Speaker 1: kumbaya right now? 685 00:40:36,760 --> 00:40:39,240 Speaker 2: I do think so, And I think there are steps 686 00:40:39,280 --> 00:40:44,239 Speaker 2: beyond that. During the pandemic has started creating a roadmap 687 00:40:44,600 --> 00:40:47,760 Speaker 2: essentially like in a subscription form, where like you're learning 688 00:40:47,800 --> 00:40:52,239 Speaker 2: the skills that science has shown helps create a positive 689 00:40:52,320 --> 00:40:55,960 Speaker 2: foundation for mental health. And those things are things that 690 00:40:56,040 --> 00:40:59,960 Speaker 2: you would expect coping skills like learning to identify your emotion, 691 00:41:00,320 --> 00:41:04,440 Speaker 2: being able to talk about your emotions. It is bigger 692 00:41:04,480 --> 00:41:07,080 Speaker 2: than just that, but that is the very basis, and 693 00:41:07,160 --> 00:41:08,840 Speaker 2: it is one hundred percent doable. 694 00:41:10,040 --> 00:41:13,240 Speaker 1: You got this. You hear it here first from Sarah 695 00:41:13,280 --> 00:41:17,759 Speaker 1: Alsher of Marry and Bright and from Katie Low's of 696 00:41:17,840 --> 00:41:23,000 Speaker 1: Katie's Crib. How is parenting going overall for you in 697 00:41:23,120 --> 00:41:26,240 Speaker 1: our wrapping up, Oh my goodness. 698 00:41:26,640 --> 00:41:32,560 Speaker 2: It is My kid is so magical. It is so hard. 699 00:41:33,600 --> 00:41:38,720 Speaker 2: And also I like her more every day. She's super cool, 700 00:41:39,320 --> 00:41:43,320 Speaker 2: she's weak, cooler than I ever was, and she wants 701 00:41:43,360 --> 00:41:48,359 Speaker 2: to hang out with me, and she's she's got a 702 00:41:48,440 --> 00:41:49,680 Speaker 2: good head on her shoulders. 703 00:41:50,440 --> 00:41:51,759 Speaker 1: That's thanks to her mother. 704 00:41:52,480 --> 00:41:55,600 Speaker 2: I also think we tie in and beat ourselves up, 705 00:41:55,719 --> 00:41:58,920 Speaker 2: especially for things that we control, like a divorce, for example, 706 00:41:59,360 --> 00:42:01,720 Speaker 2: but even cats are a lot of people with cancer 707 00:42:01,840 --> 00:42:07,880 Speaker 2: just feel so guilty. And it's like, yes, it sucks 708 00:42:08,200 --> 00:42:10,319 Speaker 2: to be a child and have your parent go through 709 00:42:10,360 --> 00:42:15,319 Speaker 2: something hard, but it's also really beneficial to have it 710 00:42:15,640 --> 00:42:18,680 Speaker 2: while your parent is there to hold your hand. I 711 00:42:18,760 --> 00:42:21,000 Speaker 2: was there to hold her hand, help her learn how 712 00:42:21,000 --> 00:42:25,160 Speaker 2: to cope with difficult things, help her understand that you 713 00:42:25,200 --> 00:42:27,840 Speaker 2: don't need to feel sorry for yourself. Yes, this sucks, 714 00:42:27,920 --> 00:42:31,080 Speaker 2: but that's life. And now she can cope with other 715 00:42:31,120 --> 00:42:34,920 Speaker 2: things more easily because she's had these experiences. 716 00:42:36,640 --> 00:42:39,600 Speaker 1: Do you have any other advice for parents who are 717 00:42:39,640 --> 00:42:43,520 Speaker 1: going through hard things? For example, a parent, let's say, 718 00:42:43,560 --> 00:42:47,680 Speaker 1: who thinks they should stay together for their kids. 719 00:42:49,160 --> 00:42:56,200 Speaker 2: First off, researches can research can be skewed. There was 720 00:42:56,239 --> 00:42:59,600 Speaker 2: a whole article I read about how Americans ended up 721 00:42:59,640 --> 00:43:03,359 Speaker 2: thinking that divorce was like the worst thing ever, and 722 00:43:03,719 --> 00:43:09,000 Speaker 2: it's not. And the vast majority of kids, they turn 723 00:43:09,040 --> 00:43:12,120 Speaker 2: out just fine. And it has everything to do with 724 00:43:12,200 --> 00:43:13,799 Speaker 2: how stable the parent is. 725 00:43:14,080 --> 00:43:15,360 Speaker 1: The one loving parent. 726 00:43:15,600 --> 00:43:18,319 Speaker 2: Yes, they need, yes, but I would say, if I 727 00:43:18,360 --> 00:43:20,439 Speaker 2: have one piece of advice if you are going through 728 00:43:20,480 --> 00:43:24,640 Speaker 2: something difficult, it is ask for help. I as a 729 00:43:24,680 --> 00:43:28,480 Speaker 2: single parent, did every single thing myself all the time, 730 00:43:29,320 --> 00:43:32,080 Speaker 2: and when you are diagnosed with cancer, that is no 731 00:43:32,200 --> 00:43:37,080 Speaker 2: longer an option. And it was so hard and also 732 00:43:37,480 --> 00:43:42,160 Speaker 2: the greatest gift to both me and my daughter because 733 00:43:43,680 --> 00:43:46,319 Speaker 2: it made me realize just how many good people there 734 00:43:46,360 --> 00:43:49,800 Speaker 2: are in the world, and to focus on those people. 735 00:43:50,239 --> 00:43:52,640 Speaker 2: Focus on the people that are doing good rather than 736 00:43:52,680 --> 00:43:55,760 Speaker 2: focusing on the people that didn't show up. Just focus 737 00:43:55,760 --> 00:43:58,880 Speaker 2: on the people that are helping. Ask for help, allow help. 738 00:43:59,520 --> 00:44:02,400 Speaker 2: And it's good for your kids to be community that 739 00:44:02,520 --> 00:44:05,960 Speaker 2: beyond just you. Yes, you have a community. There are 740 00:44:06,000 --> 00:44:09,160 Speaker 2: other adults you can trust. And that's good for everybody. 741 00:44:10,040 --> 00:44:13,520 Speaker 1: One more time, because it's so important for parents who 742 00:44:13,560 --> 00:44:15,839 Speaker 1: feel they should not tell the children because of how 743 00:44:15,880 --> 00:44:18,120 Speaker 1: scary or tough or hard the topics may be. 744 00:44:19,880 --> 00:44:24,160 Speaker 2: So. Two weeks ago, I lost one of my friends 745 00:44:24,440 --> 00:44:34,160 Speaker 2: to cancer. She did not tell her daughter, and it 746 00:44:34,360 --> 00:44:37,120 Speaker 2: was something I had been begging her to do for 747 00:44:37,200 --> 00:44:41,480 Speaker 2: two three years. You want to be the one to 748 00:44:44,040 --> 00:44:47,239 Speaker 2: whatever's going to happen is going to happen, and you 749 00:44:47,280 --> 00:44:51,360 Speaker 2: want your kids to have the skills to be able 750 00:44:51,400 --> 00:44:54,760 Speaker 2: to deal with it while you're there to hold their hand. 751 00:44:55,320 --> 00:44:59,520 Speaker 2: And as terrifying as it is to have these conversations, 752 00:44:59,719 --> 00:45:04,800 Speaker 2: it builds trust, it builds connection, and it builds strength. 753 00:45:05,560 --> 00:45:10,000 Speaker 2: There are people who can help you have these conversations. 754 00:45:10,280 --> 00:45:13,600 Speaker 2: There are so many people you can reach out to 755 00:45:13,640 --> 00:45:15,759 Speaker 2: me if you don't know how to have a conversation, 756 00:45:16,000 --> 00:45:20,320 Speaker 2: I'm putting it out there, chronic illness, whatever it is, seriously, 757 00:45:20,480 --> 00:45:23,280 Speaker 2: I will help you have this conversation with your kids. 758 00:45:23,640 --> 00:45:29,040 Speaker 2: But there's also hospice workers, grief counselors, child therapists, all 759 00:45:29,160 --> 00:45:31,359 Speaker 2: kinds of people who will help you. You don't have 760 00:45:31,480 --> 00:45:35,239 Speaker 2: to do it by yourself. But the amount of confusion 761 00:45:35,480 --> 00:45:38,360 Speaker 2: that a child feels when they are not told the 762 00:45:38,440 --> 00:45:44,839 Speaker 2: truth is not okay. And you also just really need 763 00:45:44,880 --> 00:45:49,279 Speaker 2: to understand that your kids know something's going on anyway, 764 00:45:49,320 --> 00:45:53,360 Speaker 2: and all you're doing by avoiding the conversation is sending 765 00:45:53,400 --> 00:45:55,800 Speaker 2: them the message that it's not okay to talk about 766 00:45:55,800 --> 00:45:58,640 Speaker 2: and they need to deal with it themselves, that you 767 00:45:58,800 --> 00:46:03,080 Speaker 2: can't handle it. They want to protect you. You need 768 00:46:03,120 --> 00:46:06,399 Speaker 2: to show them that you are strong enough for both 769 00:46:06,440 --> 00:46:09,360 Speaker 2: of you. This is not something a child should be 770 00:46:09,400 --> 00:46:13,040 Speaker 2: dealing with themselves, and you don't want them the other 771 00:46:13,719 --> 00:46:18,480 Speaker 2: because a number of kids who I was so afraid 772 00:46:18,520 --> 00:46:21,000 Speaker 2: somebody was going to say something to my kid. I 773 00:46:21,040 --> 00:46:23,560 Speaker 2: was like, do I use the word cancer? Yes, you 774 00:46:23,680 --> 00:46:27,800 Speaker 2: use the word cancer, because if you don't, then somebody's 775 00:46:27,840 --> 00:46:30,200 Speaker 2: going to say it. And that word has power and 776 00:46:30,320 --> 00:46:32,640 Speaker 2: means a whole bunch of different things. You want to 777 00:46:32,640 --> 00:46:35,680 Speaker 2: be the one to control the narrative. Here. My daughter's 778 00:46:35,760 --> 00:46:39,480 Speaker 2: second grade teacher said to her, there was some kid 779 00:46:39,480 --> 00:46:43,880 Speaker 2: that was had stage four bringing cancer and was dying 780 00:46:43,920 --> 00:46:46,120 Speaker 2: and is dying. Wish was to get letters from kids 781 00:46:46,120 --> 00:46:49,680 Speaker 2: in elementary school, and so her class was doing writing 782 00:46:49,719 --> 00:46:52,280 Speaker 2: all these letters, and the teacher says to my daughter, 783 00:46:52,800 --> 00:46:56,400 Speaker 2: how do you feel? Are you okay? Because I know 784 00:46:56,480 --> 00:46:58,680 Speaker 2: this kid has the same thing your mom has. 785 00:46:59,360 --> 00:46:59,800 Speaker 3: Wow. 786 00:47:01,000 --> 00:47:05,360 Speaker 2: But my daughter knew it wasn't the same thing. She 787 00:47:05,480 --> 00:47:07,520 Speaker 2: was in second grade, and she was able to come 788 00:47:07,560 --> 00:47:10,719 Speaker 2: home and say, my mom does not have what that 789 00:47:10,840 --> 00:47:14,560 Speaker 2: kid has because I had said to her, cancer means 790 00:47:14,600 --> 00:47:17,040 Speaker 2: a lot of different things. You want to be the 791 00:47:17,040 --> 00:47:19,239 Speaker 2: one in control of the narrative. So that is why 792 00:47:19,320 --> 00:47:20,480 Speaker 2: you need to tell your kids. 793 00:47:22,239 --> 00:47:26,640 Speaker 1: I think that is brilliant and so true. And again 794 00:47:26,800 --> 00:47:32,080 Speaker 1: goes back to communication. It's everything. It's one hundred one 795 00:47:32,120 --> 00:47:36,480 Speaker 1: minute conversations, not one one hundred minute conversation anything else 796 00:47:36,520 --> 00:47:38,680 Speaker 1: you think parents should know about divorce and cancer that 797 00:47:38,719 --> 00:47:40,719 Speaker 1: they don't realize. 798 00:47:40,800 --> 00:47:43,600 Speaker 2: Everybody's gonna be okay. It feels like the worst thing 799 00:47:43,640 --> 00:47:46,600 Speaker 2: in the world, but everybody's gonna be okay. I had 800 00:47:46,640 --> 00:47:49,680 Speaker 2: a girlfriend who went through it like eight years before me. 801 00:47:50,200 --> 00:47:53,440 Speaker 2: I remember her saying, I know you think that he 802 00:47:53,600 --> 00:47:55,839 Speaker 2: is the worst, but he's going to get better. I 803 00:47:55,880 --> 00:47:59,680 Speaker 2: was like, Nope, not possible, not possible. I'm not saying 804 00:48:00,000 --> 00:48:03,600 Speaker 2: everybody ends up this way, but we have a truly 805 00:48:03,680 --> 00:48:06,560 Speaker 2: modern family now, and I never would have thought it 806 00:48:06,600 --> 00:48:10,439 Speaker 2: was gonna be okay. It's gonna be okay. Everybody's gonna 807 00:48:10,480 --> 00:48:10,880 Speaker 2: be okay. 808 00:48:11,440 --> 00:48:12,359 Speaker 1: So inspiring. 809 00:48:13,120 --> 00:48:16,640 Speaker 2: Even if you aren't sharing dinners, you're still gonna be okay. 810 00:48:16,719 --> 00:48:17,719 Speaker 2: Because you're in charge of that. 811 00:48:18,400 --> 00:48:21,239 Speaker 1: Finish this sentence. I ask every guest on our podcast 812 00:48:21,280 --> 00:48:23,359 Speaker 1: this parenthood is. 813 00:48:25,600 --> 00:48:27,520 Speaker 2: Hard and wonderful. 814 00:48:29,200 --> 00:48:31,759 Speaker 1: Sarah, I'm so grateful that you came on the podcast. 815 00:48:32,160 --> 00:48:35,000 Speaker 1: Where can people find the books and the calendars? Tell 816 00:48:35,080 --> 00:48:36,799 Speaker 1: us your website and. 817 00:48:36,800 --> 00:48:41,439 Speaker 2: Stuff Mightyandbright dot com. My books are also all on 818 00:48:41,640 --> 00:48:44,280 Speaker 2: Amazon if you search for my name, which is Sarah 819 00:48:44,320 --> 00:48:47,960 Speaker 2: ulshar and you can find me on Instagram at Mighty 820 00:48:48,040 --> 00:48:48,600 Speaker 2: and Bright. Coo. 821 00:48:49,640 --> 00:48:54,160 Speaker 1: Everybody go please if you're going through hard things, if 822 00:48:54,160 --> 00:48:56,920 Speaker 1: your friends who are parents are going through hard things. 823 00:48:57,280 --> 00:49:00,239 Speaker 1: This is an incredible resource that exists to hew help 824 00:49:00,320 --> 00:49:05,360 Speaker 1: us parent because we will all parent through difficult, hard 825 00:49:05,360 --> 00:49:09,560 Speaker 1: things at various times in our parenting experience. And I'm 826 00:49:09,640 --> 00:49:11,680 Speaker 1: so glad, Sarah you are doing the work to help 827 00:49:11,760 --> 00:49:15,080 Speaker 1: us all. Thank you so much for coming on Katie's Crib. 828 00:49:15,520 --> 00:49:23,160 Speaker 3: Thank you, Thank you. 829 00:49:23,160 --> 00:49:25,480 Speaker 1: Guys so much for listening to today's episode. I want 830 00:49:25,480 --> 00:49:30,359 Speaker 1: to hear from you. Let's chat questions, comments, concerns. Let 831 00:49:30,360 --> 00:49:32,839 Speaker 1: me know. You can always find me at Katie'scrib at 832 00:49:32,840 --> 00:49:38,880 Speaker 1: Shondaland dot com. Katie's Crib is a production of Shondaland 833 00:49:38,920 --> 00:49:42,960 Speaker 1: Audio in partnership with iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from Shondaland Audio, 834 00:49:43,080 --> 00:49:46,120 Speaker 1: visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen 835 00:49:46,160 --> 00:49:51,400 Speaker 1: to your favorite shows.