WEBVTT - Drive-By Truckers 0:00:08.320 --> 0:00:14.440 Pushkin. It's been nearly four years since Drive By Truckers 0:00:14.480 --> 0:00:19.080 released They're Pissed Off, politically charged album American band. That 0:00:19.120 --> 0:00:22.599 record was their rebel yell, full of songs that reflected 0:00:22.640 --> 0:00:26.280 life and injustice during the Trump era, and judging from 0:00:26.280 --> 0:00:29.400 their latest release, The Unraveling, it's clear the Drive By 0:00:29.440 --> 0:00:32.760 Truckers have moved from anger into a state of grief. 0:00:33.520 --> 0:00:36.600 The Unraveling is the Drive By Trucker's twelfth album. The 0:00:36.640 --> 0:00:39.960 band's two lead vocalists, Mike Cooley and Patterson Hood, both 0:00:40.000 --> 0:00:43.800 grew up in rural Alabama. Patterson's dad, David Hood, was 0:00:43.800 --> 0:00:46.240 the basis for The Swampers, one of the most famous 0:00:46.280 --> 0:00:48.919 studio house bands of all time, who are officially known 0:00:48.960 --> 0:00:52.080 as the Muscle Shoals rhythm section the backed artist I 0:00:52.120 --> 0:00:54.840 could read the Franklin, the Rolling Stones, Bob Dylan, and 0:00:54.920 --> 0:00:57.960 Paul Simon, but Patterson explains to Bruce Headlam in this 0:00:58.000 --> 0:01:00.600 interview why he never talked about his dad's until he 0:01:00.640 --> 0:01:03.640 was in his thirties. Patterson and Mike also played songs 0:01:03.640 --> 0:01:06.160 from the new album, most of which are protest songs 0:01:06.200 --> 0:01:09.200 inspired by the current political climate and conversations they've had 0:01:09.240 --> 0:01:11.880 to have with their kids about it, and as you'll hear, 0:01:12.080 --> 0:01:14.880 they've had to rethink their live set lists after fans 0:01:14.880 --> 0:01:17.560 started waiving the Confederate flags at a festival they were 0:01:17.560 --> 0:01:24.720 playing alongside one of their favorite rappers. This is broken 0:01:24.720 --> 0:01:27.960 record liner notes for the digital age. I'm justin Richmond. 0:01:33.040 --> 0:01:36.080 Here's Mike Cooley and Patterson Hood in conversation with Bruce 0:01:36.120 --> 0:01:40.200 had them. We're here with Mike Cooley and Patterson Hood, 0:01:40.880 --> 0:01:44.319 who for more than twenty years have been the leaders 0:01:44.360 --> 0:01:50.200 and songwriters for Drive by Truckers. Songwriters doesn't seem to 0:01:50.280 --> 0:01:55.120 quite capture it almost You guys have been so prolific, 0:01:56.000 --> 0:02:00.120 and you write with such strong themes, it's easy. You're 0:02:00.120 --> 0:02:02.360 almost to think of you as novelists with guitars. I 0:02:02.400 --> 0:02:05.960 think because you've done so much work. Uh tell me 0:02:06.000 --> 0:02:11.120 where this song came from. The song came from a 0:02:11.200 --> 0:02:16.560 stopover on an off ramp off ninety outside of Gilette, Wyoming. 0:02:16.880 --> 0:02:19.120 And uh, I don't I don't write a lot on 0:02:19.120 --> 0:02:20.480 the run. I don't write a lot of songs on 0:02:20.520 --> 0:02:23.520 the road because it tends to be hard with on 0:02:23.560 --> 0:02:27.280 a bus with you know, eleven people and and all 0:02:27.320 --> 0:02:31.160 the loud noises and music playing and stuff. But um, 0:02:31.320 --> 0:02:34.400 but we uh were on our way from Sioux Falls, 0:02:35.000 --> 0:02:39.359 South Dakota to Missoula and uh taking the required the 0:02:39.480 --> 0:02:43.680 legally required bus stop where the driver hopefully sleeps for 0:02:43.760 --> 0:02:49.080 a few hours. And those pretty good laws. We've seen 0:02:49.120 --> 0:02:53.799 the other side. We've seen the other side. Well, yeah, 0:02:53.800 --> 0:02:56.720 we've seen naught abiding by them. Yeah. We we had 0:02:56.720 --> 0:03:00.280 a driver one time go for Minneapolis to Seattle non stop. 0:03:01.240 --> 0:03:02.720 I don't I don't even know if he pete. I 0:03:02.720 --> 0:03:04.919 mean he just went and uh and it was a 0:03:04.919 --> 0:03:08.120 little terrifying, but uh, but so were. We were stopped 0:03:08.160 --> 0:03:10.560 at a holiday in express Us on an off ramp. 0:03:10.880 --> 0:03:14.280 I mean it could just as easily have been somewhere 0:03:14.280 --> 0:03:18.120 in Alabama or Arizona other than how cold it was. 0:03:18.320 --> 0:03:21.160 And uh, because it was wintertime. It was January, and 0:03:21.200 --> 0:03:23.360 it was it was nice and cold, and we were hungry, 0:03:23.720 --> 0:03:26.000 and we were walking to uh going to walk to 0:03:26.080 --> 0:03:28.760 this like Mexican restaurant a couple of blocks away. There 0:03:28.840 --> 0:03:31.120 was the only thing on that off ramp that wasn't 0:03:31.160 --> 0:03:34.360 a chain and uh there was like three stars on yelp, 0:03:34.560 --> 0:03:37.600 you know, sold and uh and we met in the 0:03:37.680 --> 0:03:39.560 lobby and we were walking when I walked out of 0:03:39.560 --> 0:03:42.960 the door with like patches of snow and ice. You know, 0:03:43.040 --> 0:03:45.960 in the parking lot, our buses parked under this giant 0:03:46.080 --> 0:03:50.080 billboard that said the Oasis Tanning Salon. And I don't 0:03:50.120 --> 0:03:51.920 know how that became a song, but by the time 0:03:51.920 --> 0:03:53.840 we got to the restaurant, I wrote the first verse 0:03:53.880 --> 0:03:56.560 on a napkin, and after I ate, I went back 0:03:56.600 --> 0:03:59.800 to the hotel room, in our motel room and wrote 0:04:00.120 --> 0:04:02.720 the rest of the song that afternoon, And that kind 0:04:02.720 --> 0:04:05.400 of opened the floodgates for the songs that I wrote 0:04:05.440 --> 0:04:08.160 on this album, because I, up to that point, was 0:04:08.200 --> 0:04:12.240 having a real hard time wrapping my head around how 0:04:12.280 --> 0:04:16.359 I wanted to approach writing about this crazy time that 0:04:16.440 --> 0:04:20.800 we're all trying to live through right now. You know, 0:04:20.880 --> 0:04:27.920 your last album, American Band was also written about an 0:04:27.960 --> 0:04:31.360 earlier part of the crazier time, back in the good 0:04:31.400 --> 0:04:36.479 old days when we thought it Yeah, and you know, 0:04:36.520 --> 0:04:42.160 parts of that album seem to be written more in 0:04:42.240 --> 0:04:46.000 sorrow than an anger. Um, you seem to have become 0:04:46.040 --> 0:04:48.800 a little easier with your anger in this one. It's 0:04:48.800 --> 0:04:52.600 a tough, tough album. It's it's funny because I because 0:04:52.680 --> 0:04:57.520 I almost almost if taken the opposite thought on I 0:04:57.600 --> 0:05:00.640 love hearing that, hearing it. I love here how different 0:05:00.640 --> 0:05:03.279 people gauge it and react to it, you know, because 0:05:03.440 --> 0:05:05.680 because from my point of view, I thought of the 0:05:05.760 --> 0:05:08.200 last record is more the angry one, and this is 0:05:08.279 --> 0:05:12.159 more just the sad one. It's just like, now, now, 0:05:12.200 --> 0:05:15.240 what what do we do now? You know? And uh, 0:05:15.760 --> 0:05:18.839 so so much of the so many of the songs 0:05:18.880 --> 0:05:22.000 I wrote on this record were directly inspired by conversations 0:05:22.040 --> 0:05:25.159 with my kids and uh, trying to raise your family, 0:05:25.760 --> 0:05:30.760 and you know, in all of this and uh and 0:05:30.760 --> 0:05:33.760 and you know, the questions they had about different things, 0:05:33.800 --> 0:05:37.360 you know, talking to you know, my kids about the 0:05:37.440 --> 0:05:40.719 lockdown drill they had in school, you know, and and 0:05:40.920 --> 0:05:44.800 uh and my son had all these questions about, you know, 0:05:44.880 --> 0:05:47.160 if if someone was going to take him away from 0:05:47.240 --> 0:05:49.719 his mommy and I and put him in a cage 0:05:49.720 --> 0:05:51.680 and a holding. I mean, he was literally he was 0:05:51.720 --> 0:05:55.240 worried about that, you know. And and you know, first 0:05:55.240 --> 0:05:57.720 I comforted him and told him that that wasn't going 0:05:57.760 --> 0:06:02.960 to happen, which led to the real uncomfortable, unpleasant conversation 0:06:03.040 --> 0:06:06.039 about why you know, and and you know the fact 0:06:06.080 --> 0:06:09.039 that you know they aren't taking little white kids away 0:06:09.080 --> 0:06:13.279 from their parents and doing that, and uh and and 0:06:13.800 --> 0:06:15.840 the look on his face as you could see him 0:06:15.839 --> 0:06:19.600 trying to wrap his head around that concept, and uh, 0:06:19.680 --> 0:06:22.000 it was just heartbreaking to me, you know, and that 0:06:22.000 --> 0:06:25.279 that directly led to you know, at least one if 0:06:25.279 --> 0:06:27.800 not more, of the songs on the record, and some 0:06:27.839 --> 0:06:29.760 of the songs and what you just played is not 0:06:29.839 --> 0:06:32.080 an example of that, but a lot of the songs 0:06:32.080 --> 0:06:35.160 take the form of really protest songs. Yeah, in a 0:06:35.279 --> 0:06:39.040 very old fashioned way, which is something of the departure 0:06:39.040 --> 0:06:42.440 for you guys. Yeah, I guess you know, we've always 0:06:43.000 --> 0:06:45.760 I've always thought of our band as political, and and 0:06:45.960 --> 0:06:50.280 my songs is is political. But you know, so often 0:06:50.400 --> 0:06:53.880 it was like done in the form of telling a story, 0:06:54.360 --> 0:06:57.000 often a story said in a different time and place, 0:06:57.279 --> 0:07:00.640 you know, almost like the Chinatown, you know, the way 0:07:00.640 --> 0:07:05.280 the movie Chinatown used the thirties noir you know, format 0:07:05.279 --> 0:07:08.960 to to tell to talk about, you know, what was 0:07:09.000 --> 0:07:11.280 going on at that time in the seventies, you know. 0:07:11.440 --> 0:07:14.320 And uh so, uh so I always kind of took 0:07:14.320 --> 0:07:16.720 that approach, you know. I mean I considered Southern rock 0:07:16.720 --> 0:07:20.040 opera to be a very very political record, you know, 0:07:20.160 --> 0:07:22.800 with all of the George Wallace stuff and all that 0:07:23.000 --> 0:07:27.600 and uh, but but starting with American Band, we've been 0:07:28.360 --> 0:07:32.600 we made a kind of very conscious decision that that 0:07:33.160 --> 0:07:36.240 record in this last one are set right now, and 0:07:36.280 --> 0:07:40.240 there isn't there isn't some story to you know, necessarily, 0:07:40.800 --> 0:07:45.960 you know, he's the he's the he's you into it. Um, 0:07:46.640 --> 0:07:48.480 we are going to get back to politics, but I 0:07:48.480 --> 0:07:50.800 do want to ask you just a bit about the 0:07:50.960 --> 0:07:54.720 making of the album itself. Uh, you went to Memphis 0:07:54.800 --> 0:07:57.680 for this, yes, so tell me a little bit about that. 0:07:58.320 --> 0:08:03.679 We went to Sam Phillips Recording Service, uh studio that went. Um, 0:08:03.720 --> 0:08:06.480 you know, of course Sam. Sam's actually from our hometown. 0:08:06.600 --> 0:08:09.680 He grew up. He grew up two farms over from 0:08:09.680 --> 0:08:12.200 my grandmother. They're the same age, and they went to 0:08:12.200 --> 0:08:15.640 elementary school together even and uh, you know, of course 0:08:15.680 --> 0:08:18.520 he moved to Memphis and you know, basically discovered rock 0:08:18.560 --> 0:08:23.000 and roll and and Sun Studios and Elvis and Carl 0:08:23.080 --> 0:08:26.880 Perkins and all of that. And and around nineteen sixty 0:08:26.960 --> 0:08:30.720 or so when he sold Sun Records and the Sun Studios, 0:08:30.800 --> 0:08:33.720 he took his money and he built like his dream studio. 0:08:34.080 --> 0:08:36.920 And so that's the place where we recorded our record. 0:08:36.960 --> 0:08:41.319 It's like a time capsule from like nineteen sixty two basically, uh, 0:08:41.400 --> 0:08:45.199 with with some early seventies updates here or there, and 0:08:45.400 --> 0:08:51.200 uh some amazing old tube gear and just and those 0:08:51.280 --> 0:08:55.120 echo chambers. He designed and built three different echo chambers 0:08:55.120 --> 0:08:58.120 of different sizes into the actual building. And so we're 0:08:58.160 --> 0:09:02.560 like running our stuff through though echo chambers and really 0:09:03.160 --> 0:09:06.080 digging the way it sounded and kind of being inspired 0:09:06.080 --> 0:09:09.120 by did it changed to the sound of this album 0:09:09.160 --> 0:09:12.520 from other albums? I think it did. I think I 0:09:12.600 --> 0:09:15.880 think a combination of that and just you know, how 0:09:15.920 --> 0:09:19.720 the band's evolved too, because uh, you know, because uh, 0:09:20.080 --> 0:09:23.760 we've been you know, we we've we haven't had any 0:09:23.800 --> 0:09:26.880 kind of a personnel lineup change or anything for about 0:09:26.960 --> 0:09:31.239 eight years now. And uh, and so this this incarnation 0:09:31.280 --> 0:09:33.880 of the band is just really really jailed in a 0:09:33.880 --> 0:09:35.720 way that I don't think we were ever able to 0:09:35.800 --> 0:09:42.920 quite achieve before because in our more tumultuous earlier days. Uh. 0:09:43.000 --> 0:09:47.960 And I heard there was a celebrity setting there. There was, Yeah, yep. 0:09:48.200 --> 0:09:51.800 Um Peter Grownick, who wrote the Sam Phillips book, came 0:09:51.880 --> 0:09:55.240 and visited us, and uh, and he had Mick Jagger 0:09:55.280 --> 0:09:58.520 with him. Yeah, okay, but did you talk to Mick 0:09:58.559 --> 0:10:01.560 Jagger there or yeah, a little bit for for a second, 0:10:01.679 --> 0:10:04.760 you know. And uh, um, we knew that Peter was 0:10:04.800 --> 0:10:08.000 coming and uh and of course I'd read I'd read 0:10:08.000 --> 0:10:10.520 as Sam Phillips book. I've read probably all his books 0:10:10.559 --> 0:10:12.719 and uh, and so i knew he was coming, and 0:10:12.760 --> 0:10:15.320 I was looking forward to meeting him. And we're seeing him. 0:10:15.320 --> 0:10:19.480 I've met him before, seeing him again. But uh, and 0:10:19.480 --> 0:10:21.920 then when Mike Jagger stuck his head in, it was, uh, 0:10:23.760 --> 0:10:26.160 it was it was a bit of a trip, all bad. 0:10:27.720 --> 0:10:30.880 You know. The song you just played describes, uh, sort 0:10:30.920 --> 0:10:36.720 of how homogeneous sort of the American landscape has become. 0:10:37.520 --> 0:10:40.880 You guys grew up in a in a very particular 0:10:40.920 --> 0:10:44.880 part of Alabama. Now, when you say Alabama to most Northerners, 0:10:45.360 --> 0:10:47.920 they have a certain idea and it's probably Birmingham or 0:10:47.960 --> 0:10:51.720 Mobile or football or oil or whatever it is. My cousin, Ben, 0:10:52.440 --> 0:10:56.480 cousin Benny, was that in Alabama? Yeah? Okay, Um, they're 0:10:56.520 --> 0:10:58.719 not thinking Emmy Lou Harris or you know, any of 0:10:58.720 --> 0:11:01.600 the people who are actually from there. What was what 0:11:01.679 --> 0:11:05.360 was that part of Alabama? Let growing up. I mean 0:11:05.400 --> 0:11:07.400 when we were growing up, it was it was kind 0:11:07.440 --> 0:11:11.319 of isolated in a way because there's no major highway 0:11:11.320 --> 0:11:15.240 through our town. There's a pretty major waterway through there 0:11:15.400 --> 0:11:17.320 as far as the Tennessee River, so there's a lot 0:11:17.360 --> 0:11:20.600 of barges that floated through. But you know, the closest 0:11:20.640 --> 0:11:24.160 airport of any size, you know, was at least two 0:11:24.200 --> 0:11:27.400 hours away, and the interstate was an hour away. And 0:11:27.400 --> 0:11:30.920 and uh, we're kind of right between three cities. It's 0:11:30.920 --> 0:11:33.560 about two to three hours away. Birmingham and Nashville and 0:11:33.559 --> 0:11:36.200 Memphis were kind of right in the middle of of 0:11:36.240 --> 0:11:39.439 the you know, of that triangle. But yeah, the Shoals area, 0:11:39.480 --> 0:11:43.360 it's four cities all that border each other. But I 0:11:43.360 --> 0:11:46.040 would describe the four of them collectively as a small 0:11:46.080 --> 0:11:48.120 town with a lot more people in it than you 0:11:48.240 --> 0:11:50.160 usually see in a small town. But it's still very 0:11:50.200 --> 0:11:54.040 much a big small town, right. Yeah. And it also 0:11:54.160 --> 0:11:56.839 I mean to the rest of the world because of 0:11:56.920 --> 0:12:02.760 Muscle Shoals where your fatherhood played for years and years 0:12:02.760 --> 0:12:05.400 and some of the greatest soul records ever. Right Mick 0:12:05.480 --> 0:12:09.800 Jagger came to his studio too. Yeah, but uh, yeah, 0:12:09.800 --> 0:12:12.560 the you know, they the Stones recorded brown sugar and 0:12:12.840 --> 0:12:17.360 wild horses and you got to move there. And uh 0:12:17.400 --> 0:12:20.480 but um, and at that time, I mean it was 0:12:20.480 --> 0:12:22.480 a dry county. You know, it was when I when 0:12:22.480 --> 0:12:24.319 we were growing up, it was still a dry county. 0:12:24.440 --> 0:12:26.800 Was almost in high school before we had illegal alcohol 0:12:27.040 --> 0:12:30.920 was right there. Yeah yeah, so uh wow, so it 0:12:30.960 --> 0:12:38.040 was time. Yeah, they saw you coming. Yeah, they needed 0:12:38.080 --> 0:12:41.280 to raising taxes. Always say the best thing for you know, 0:12:41.400 --> 0:12:43.920 for a hard drinking teenagers to live in a dry 0:12:43.960 --> 0:12:46.520 county because the bootleggers don't care how old you are, 0:12:46.679 --> 0:12:49.400 you know, and if you don't and you know, if 0:12:49.400 --> 0:12:51.280 you don't have legal liquor, then you're just gonna have 0:12:51.320 --> 0:12:53.679 illegal liquor. I mean it's no, it's not like you're 0:12:53.720 --> 0:12:55.720 gonna keep anyone from doing what they want to do. 0:12:56.320 --> 0:13:01.600 There's a certain image, you know, musically, at least of 0:13:01.720 --> 0:13:07.160 kind of racial harmony. Um, people associate with muscle shoals, right. Um, 0:13:07.200 --> 0:13:10.280 this is a place that great soul records were made by, 0:13:10.800 --> 0:13:13.360 you know, by racial bands. And well I guess the 0:13:13.400 --> 0:13:16.080 band itself was mainly white, but yeah, they were artists 0:13:16.160 --> 0:13:19.400 mainly white, at least at least Dad's group. Some of 0:13:19.400 --> 0:13:21.160 the some of the later groups, it got a little 0:13:21.160 --> 0:13:24.120 more integrated. But uh, but yeah, I mean, yeah, you know, 0:13:24.240 --> 0:13:27.800 my in the heart of the George Wallace era, my 0:13:27.880 --> 0:13:31.240 dad was making his living backing up Aretha Franklin and 0:13:31.480 --> 0:13:35.960 Wilson Pickett and Bobby Womack, Atta James and you know, 0:13:36.120 --> 0:13:39.760 all these amazing records that came out of there. And uh, 0:13:39.800 --> 0:13:43.640 and yet you know, at times, especially in the earlier days, 0:13:44.040 --> 0:13:46.360 you know, I don't think some of the you know, 0:13:46.400 --> 0:13:48.800 some of the African American artists that were recording there 0:13:48.880 --> 0:13:53.320 were particularly comfortable going out and having dinner. You know, 0:13:53.400 --> 0:13:55.960 when some of the restaurants there, I think it got 0:13:56.000 --> 0:13:58.280 I mean, it wasn't nearly as bad there as like 0:13:58.640 --> 0:14:01.240 what you see from like burning Ham and and you know, 0:14:01.320 --> 0:14:04.000 we didn't have Bull Connor and you know, they weren't 0:14:04.040 --> 0:14:06.839 necessarily seeking police dogs on people, but it still was 0:14:06.880 --> 0:14:11.640 a closed minded, you know, bibble Belt religious. I used 0:14:11.640 --> 0:14:15.320 to have to pass by there was a radio station 0:14:15.520 --> 0:14:19.680 pretty much from where I lived to get to anywhere. Um, 0:14:19.720 --> 0:14:23.480 it was a black owned AM radio station. So the 0:14:23.600 --> 0:14:29.040 w ZZ A the soul of the shows, and it 0:14:29.560 --> 0:14:32.480 very often it wasn't uncommon at all to pass by 0:14:32.520 --> 0:14:36.680 there and see that it had been vandalized again. Um, 0:14:36.760 --> 0:14:41.480 some kind of racist epitap spray painted on the door, 0:14:41.760 --> 0:14:46.520 you know. So yeah, you had both you right, you 0:14:46.600 --> 0:14:49.080 had you had a little of both worlds. Yeah. And 0:14:49.240 --> 0:14:52.280 is it is it changed in a way that we'd 0:14:52.280 --> 0:14:54.960 recognize from the song you just played? Is it become 0:14:55.040 --> 0:14:59.000 more commodified in big box? I mean it's it's it's 0:14:59.080 --> 0:15:01.920 kind of gotten cool in a way because they've you know, 0:15:02.000 --> 0:15:04.840 when we were growing up, like the whole music thing 0:15:04.840 --> 0:15:06.720 that was happening, there was a secret. I mean, it 0:15:06.760 --> 0:15:09.080 was almost like a secret society. I mean I learned 0:15:09.160 --> 0:15:11.520 really early on that I didn't go to school and 0:15:11.560 --> 0:15:14.120 talk about what my dad did. It was not something 0:15:14.200 --> 0:15:16.080 I was going to talk about at school because if 0:15:16.120 --> 0:15:18.160 if he were my dad, that was literally all I 0:15:18.160 --> 0:15:20.440 would talk about it. Even today. I mean it's like 0:15:20.480 --> 0:15:23.160 I was like thirty before all of a sudden, I realized, Okay, 0:15:23.160 --> 0:15:24.880 I think it's okay for me to talk about my 0:15:24.960 --> 0:15:27.080 dad now. But but it was kind of like a 0:15:27.320 --> 0:15:29.080 it was almost like they were in a secret society 0:15:29.120 --> 0:15:31.080 because they were I mean, they were afraid if they 0:15:31.080 --> 0:15:33.800 got too much attention, someone would try to stop them 0:15:33.840 --> 0:15:36.320 from doing what they were doing, you know, but they 0:15:36.400 --> 0:15:38.360 knew if they just kind of stayed under the radar 0:15:38.520 --> 0:15:41.680 and you know, and and and donated money to the 0:15:41.680 --> 0:15:45.240 Little League teams and and you know, did did did 0:15:45.280 --> 0:15:49.560 the you know, the the nice community stuff that you 0:15:49.600 --> 0:15:53.000 know that they could do. They would generally get left 0:15:53.040 --> 0:15:56.040 alone to kind of do what they were doing. And 0:15:56.600 --> 0:15:59.240 if there if there's a Little League team sponsored by 0:15:59.280 --> 0:16:04.240 the Swampers, I want that really At one point there 0:16:04.280 --> 0:16:06.680 definitely was we should explain Swampers. Who's the name for 0:16:06.720 --> 0:16:09.120 the what's also called the Muscle Shoal A lot of 0:16:09.120 --> 0:16:11.200 the realm to attract a lot of the artists there too, 0:16:11.280 --> 0:16:13.800 especially the ones who are on the more famous at 0:16:13.840 --> 0:16:15.680 the end of the spectrum at the time, because I 0:16:15.680 --> 0:16:18.320 mean Elton John could probably walk down the street there 0:16:18.440 --> 0:16:22.640 right now and not get recognized. And yeah, I mean 0:16:22.680 --> 0:16:25.120 you know, I mean, you know the rolling Stone State 0:16:25.160 --> 0:16:27.760 at the Holiday Inn right there, you know, right across 0:16:27.840 --> 0:16:30.440 the river from Muscle Shoals in Florence, and uh, the 0:16:30.440 --> 0:16:32.360 first time they've been able to walk around in public 0:16:32.760 --> 0:16:36.280 in years at that. Boy, Yeah, you know, Linda Linda Ronstat, 0:16:37.160 --> 0:16:40.240 legend has it Linda Ronstat was the was the first 0:16:40.320 --> 0:16:42.600 girl to go sit at the counter at the pool 0:16:42.680 --> 0:16:45.840 room in order. There's a pool room in Florence that 0:16:45.920 --> 0:16:49.200 had like good chili burgers and stuff like that. And 0:16:49.240 --> 0:16:52.040 it was it was, you know, kind of an unwritten 0:16:52.120 --> 0:16:54.080 law that it was men only. This would have been 0:16:54.080 --> 0:16:57.160 like seventy one maybe when she recorded there and uh, 0:16:57.360 --> 0:16:58.960 and she wanted to go to the pool room and 0:16:59.040 --> 0:17:02.040 shoot pool and uh sit at the counter and did 0:17:02.080 --> 0:17:04.439 because Linda Ronstad did what she wanted, you know, and 0:17:04.720 --> 0:17:07.720 she wasn't a big store yet, but she was already 0:17:08.520 --> 0:17:12.240 she was already Linda Ronstad wear her cut off wearing 0:17:12.240 --> 0:17:14.600 her cut off shorts, no less, you know, at the 0:17:14.640 --> 0:17:18.000 pool room and uh, and you know they served her 0:17:18.160 --> 0:17:21.840 and that was, you know, pretty pretty nice way to 0:17:21.920 --> 0:17:25.720 have change occur. But uh but yeah, I mean now, 0:17:25.920 --> 0:17:28.680 you know, it's in some ways unrecognizable to me because 0:17:28.680 --> 0:17:31.160 it's it's it's a kind of a cool town. Now 0:17:31.200 --> 0:17:34.400 they've embraced their musical heritage, and you know, we've got 0:17:34.400 --> 0:17:38.040 a you know, we've got hipsters and a boutique hotel 0:17:38.280 --> 0:17:42.280 and you know, a fancy barber shop, a barber shop 0:17:42.320 --> 0:17:45.199 with guys and handlebar mustaches and their jeans rolled up, 0:17:45.280 --> 0:17:48.760 you know, Okay, it's it's it's kind of crazy. So 0:17:49.000 --> 0:17:54.680 they've just turned into Brooklyn. Yeah, yeah, that's Brooklyn. Kind 0:17:54.680 --> 0:17:56.520 of is a big box store. Now you just find 0:17:56.560 --> 0:17:58.800 it all over the country. We'll be back with more 0:17:58.800 --> 0:18:01.080 of Bruce's interview with Mike William Patterson Hood if the 0:18:01.160 --> 0:18:08.040 drive by Truckers. After a quick break, we're back with 0:18:08.080 --> 0:18:11.800 Mike William Patterson Hood performing Grievance Merchants from their latest album, 0:18:12.000 --> 0:18:17.960 The Unraveling Thank You. That was grievous Merchants. Yeah, can 0:18:18.000 --> 0:18:21.320 you tell me about the writing of that song. I 0:18:21.440 --> 0:18:28.240 started thinking about everything that went into it. And after 0:18:28.320 --> 0:18:34.040 that the Parkland, Florida shooting that mobilized those kids so much. 0:18:34.080 --> 0:18:35.600 I was pretty moved by what they were up to, 0:18:35.760 --> 0:18:44.000 you know, but the predictable reaction they got, being accused 0:18:44.040 --> 0:18:48.200 of being less than sincere. They were called crisis actors. 0:18:48.280 --> 0:18:55.560 They were discredited, insulted and made fun of. And I 0:18:55.600 --> 0:18:57.719 don't know if that particular shooter or not was one. 0:18:57.760 --> 0:18:59.800 I think you may have been. But there was a pattern, 0:19:00.200 --> 0:19:03.439 um of all these young men that were committing these acts, 0:19:03.520 --> 0:19:09.840 you know, um every twenever it was over and you'd 0:19:09.840 --> 0:19:14.480 get a look at their uh, at their laptops, their phones, 0:19:14.960 --> 0:19:18.920 what they'd been looking at, what they've been posting, liking 0:19:19.680 --> 0:19:21.680 on social media. It was kind of a who's who 0:19:21.680 --> 0:19:25.560 are the usual suspects? Um, maybe not the same names, 0:19:25.960 --> 0:19:29.879 but definitely the same message. Um. And that was that 0:19:30.000 --> 0:19:32.160 was what it all boiled down to me. Was this 0:19:32.160 --> 0:19:37.320 this cottage industry whose product was grievance and victimhood. Um 0:19:38.040 --> 0:19:41.280 too mostly young white guys now maybe sometimes not so young. 0:19:42.040 --> 0:19:48.280 And at that time, you know that the that Alex 0:19:48.359 --> 0:19:51.840 Jones guys probably the most household name of all of them. Um. 0:19:51.880 --> 0:19:54.080 I never went far enough down that rabbit hole to 0:19:54.119 --> 0:19:55.760 even know who most of the rest of the names 0:19:55.760 --> 0:19:58.040 are because I just don't want, you know, I don't 0:19:58.080 --> 0:20:00.000 want that stuff to start popping up on my phone 0:20:00.160 --> 0:20:05.919 when I'm in public. Um uh. But yeah, it was 0:20:06.359 --> 0:20:08.879 that they all seem to uh have some kind of 0:20:08.920 --> 0:20:13.240 problem with women. They had ex girl friends x wise 0:20:13.320 --> 0:20:15.880 with restraining orders, that they had been arrested for stalking. 0:20:15.920 --> 0:20:18.840 They couldn't get the kind of attention from women they 0:20:18.840 --> 0:20:22.640 thought they deserved. Um that they were honestly that they were. 0:20:23.240 --> 0:20:26.240 Their whiteness was losing its value was the message that 0:20:26.359 --> 0:20:31.280 was constantly being pumped at them. And it's not your fault. 0:20:31.560 --> 0:20:34.080 They're kind, you know, sending them that message that you know, 0:20:34.400 --> 0:20:38.240 it's not because you're socially awkward, or because you inevitably 0:20:38.280 --> 0:20:41.600 open your mouth and say the wrong thing, or because 0:20:41.680 --> 0:20:44.280 you're you know, it's got to be this, it's got 0:20:44.280 --> 0:20:46.200 to be this thing or that thing, this is m 0:20:46.280 --> 0:20:49.840 or that ism that's turning these people against you. And uh, 0:20:50.000 --> 0:20:52.439 and you know you go far enough down it and uh, 0:20:53.560 --> 0:20:56.960 you're you know, you've you've completely self radicalized, which a 0:20:57.000 --> 0:21:00.080 lot of these guys have, and you know, you I 0:21:00.080 --> 0:21:01.840 I just don't want to you know, I can't draw 0:21:01.880 --> 0:21:05.440 a line to people on the internet or the TV 0:21:05.640 --> 0:21:09.479 or the radio saying something and somebody doing something. Of 0:21:09.480 --> 0:21:10.919 course not. But I'm not going to let them off 0:21:10.960 --> 0:21:14.280 the hook either. Um. Some of them are true believers 0:21:14.280 --> 0:21:18.280 in what they're peddling, and they're pure evil, and some 0:21:18.440 --> 0:21:21.320 are just con jobs who are in it for the attention, 0:21:21.359 --> 0:21:24.080 the money and the ratings, and they're more than pure evil. 0:21:25.240 --> 0:21:28.800 Is there there's a wonderful line in that song conspiracy 0:21:28.840 --> 0:21:33.080 to dilute their blood. Yeah, Yeah, that's that's that's a Yeah, 0:21:33.080 --> 0:21:35.159 it's a great line. But it connects to that idea 0:21:35.240 --> 0:21:41.080 of lost hand manhood emasculation, which is very much needing 0:21:41.119 --> 0:21:46.479 to see um, non white men as sexual predators. Um. 0:21:47.359 --> 0:21:52.320 And and how it's in some grand conspiracy to get 0:21:52.440 --> 0:21:55.159 white women to have fewer white babies. Yeah, I mean 0:21:55.200 --> 0:21:58.120 they really do. That's really out there. That's literally what 0:21:58.160 --> 0:22:00.600 these people are feeding up. Do you think that connects 0:22:00.640 --> 0:22:04.640 to a bigger sense in the South of being looked 0:22:04.640 --> 0:22:08.919 down upon, um by the elites, and and you know 0:22:09.040 --> 0:22:11.520 that's always been part of it. I mean yeah, definitely 0:22:11.840 --> 0:22:18.240 anti eliteism, anti intellectualism. UM. Growing up around you know, 0:22:18.359 --> 0:22:23.320 working class southern white men, there was all at men 0:22:23.600 --> 0:22:29.400 or who were more educated or more successful. Um, there 0:22:29.440 --> 0:22:31.880 was always that sense that he thinks he's better than 0:22:31.920 --> 0:22:34.040 I am. And maybe some of them did, but he 0:22:34.119 --> 0:22:37.679 got above his raisin. Yeah, yeah, maybe maybe some of 0:22:37.680 --> 0:22:39.600 them did. I'm sure some of them, you know, or 0:22:39.680 --> 0:22:43.240 they look at academics and uh they don't they think 0:22:43.240 --> 0:22:46.480 they're so smart. Well they kind of are, um, but 0:22:46.840 --> 0:22:49.480 you know, whether they are or not, it's not why 0:22:49.560 --> 0:22:51.520 that person thinks that. They're going to think that no 0:22:51.520 --> 0:22:56.399 matter what. And it's just there's definitely a blue collar 0:22:56.520 --> 0:22:59.200 chip on the shoulder. Well it's all, you know, fear 0:22:59.240 --> 0:23:02.399 of the other is such a you know, which has 0:23:02.440 --> 0:23:05.800 been a prevalent thing that our band has written about 0:23:05.880 --> 0:23:07.960 for years and years. It's been that's been kind of 0:23:08.000 --> 0:23:12.240 an ongoing theme, you know. And and and our records 0:23:12.359 --> 0:23:17.359 kind of from that day one. But uh and and 0:23:17.440 --> 0:23:21.040