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Speaker 1: Now here's a highlight from Coast to coast AM on

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Speaker 1: iHeart Radio. How did you get involved in all this, Greig?

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Speaker 1: I mean, you're a psychologist by trade. How did you

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Speaker 1: get involved in the Casey Foundation and things like that? Well,

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Speaker 1: it's it's kind of a I've told different stories and

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Speaker 1: they all but they all kind of relate to them

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Speaker 1: the same events. I've always been interested in this sort

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Speaker 1: of topics, but I recently was rewriting some books and

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Speaker 1: I had forgotten quite a bit. So I'll go back

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Speaker 1: to nineteen seventy two when I started graduate school at

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Speaker 1: what was then Memphis State University. My major professor, who

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Speaker 1: had a PhD in psychopharmacology from Vanderbilt University, was married

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Speaker 1: to a psychiatrist. She had her MD from Vanderbilt University.

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Speaker 1: In nineteen seventy two was the heyday of things like

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Speaker 1: spoon bending parties, key bending parties, people doing experiments with pyramids,

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Speaker 1: pyramid power. There was a lot of trans channeling going

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Speaker 1: on at the time, and my major professor and his wife,

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Speaker 1: when I started graduate school, they started taking me along

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Speaker 1: to every one of these things like trans channeling that

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Speaker 1: was going on. We went to hundreds of these in

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Speaker 1: the Memphis, Tennessee area. We went to spoon bending parties

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Speaker 1: and key bending parties. We watched people do it. We

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Speaker 1: were not able to do it though. I wasn't very

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Speaker 1: impressed with most of the trans channeling that I saw,

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Speaker 1: but we did do Oh yeah, we did experiments with pyramids.

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Speaker 1: We built pyramids according to the instructions that were given

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Speaker 1: in the books. You know, pyramids supposedly would keep food

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Speaker 1: from rotting if you put food inside of the build

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Speaker 1: a certain way, and it would sharpen razor blades and

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Speaker 1: keep them, keep them in good condition and not rust.

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Speaker 1: We didn't have any luck with that. We did hook

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Speaker 1: up a couple of plants to an eight channel physiograph

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Speaker 1: machine and did some experiments with that, and we found

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Speaker 1: that philodendrons, the plant philodendrons, appeared to be able to

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Speaker 1: identify specific individuals and have feelings. And I know that's

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Speaker 1: bizarre and it would take a while to explain it all,

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Speaker 1: but that was the only thing that we did that

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Speaker 1: really was impressed us. Off with the philodendron plants, hooking

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Speaker 1: them up and doing an experiment, and the plant was plants.

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Speaker 1: We did it with two different ones were really able

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Speaker 1: to identify individuals very strange. We had a kid in

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Speaker 1: high school, Greg who wore a pyramid hat. It was

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Speaker 1: a metal pyramid that just fit over his head, and

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Speaker 1: the kid aced his classes. Now, I don't know if

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Speaker 1: that had anything to do with him a seen his classes,

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Speaker 1: but he would come into school every day and where

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Speaker 1: a pyramid had and he said it gave him extra

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Speaker 1: power and energy. Well, you know, you have just put

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Speaker 1: a picture in everybody's mind of seeing some kid gone

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Speaker 1: into a high school with a pyramid on his head,

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Speaker 1: and I'm not sure I'm going to get that picture

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Speaker 1: out of my mind here. I have seen people with

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Speaker 1: you know, the aluminum foil hats and all that, and

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Speaker 1: there probably is something to that. By the way. You know,

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Speaker 1: you may have heard if you want to stop your

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Speaker 1: cell phone signal, you need to wrap your cell phone

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Speaker 1: in aluminum foil. I don't remember how many layers they've said,

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Speaker 1: but aluminum foil does block electromagnetic signals, and that of

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Speaker 1: course fits rather prominently in the book that Andrew and

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Speaker 1: I did. But yeah, I've seen people do similar things

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Speaker 1: with aluminum foil. I have seen people experiment with pyramids,

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Speaker 1: and we did it too, but we never had any

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Speaker 1: luck with it. Our food rotted in it, the razor

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Speaker 1: blades didn't get sharp. There were several other things we

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Speaker 1: did with the pyramids, but it may have something to

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Speaker 1: do with the construction that we used. They weren't it

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Speaker 1: could be met. Yeah. Is it supposed to draw in

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Speaker 1: energy from the planet or the universe or something. Well,

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Speaker 1: it's supposed to draw it's supposed to focus energy into

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Speaker 1: the center of the pyramid. Yes. I don't think anybody

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Speaker 1: ever said whether it was cosmic rays or whether it

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Speaker 1: was electromagnetic energy or plasma or whatever. I don't recall

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Speaker 1: that ever being written in any of the books. It

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Speaker 1: might have been, but of course that was a long

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Speaker 1: time ago. But it's supposed to focus energy. That's what

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Speaker 1: it's supposed to do, and that energy does something I

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Speaker 1: guess depending on what the angles are and so on.

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Speaker 1: All that matters. It gets it gets really complicated when

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Speaker 1: you get into the specifics of it. Well, with great

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Speaker 1: little His latest book that he wrote with Andrew Collins

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Speaker 1: is called Origins of the Gods. Give us a little

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Speaker 1: premise of this book, Origins of the Gods. Well, it's really,

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Speaker 1: like I said, it's really about trying to explain everything

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Speaker 1: in the paranormal field, try to come up with explanations

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Speaker 1: of all of it. So we've tried to explain like

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Speaker 1: the Navy's recent film of the Tic Tac objects. We're

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Speaker 1: trying to explain ancient alien reports, the ancient reports of angels,

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Speaker 1: the fairies of England, the gin of the Muslim world.

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Speaker 1: We were interested also in modern UFOs, modern UFO abductions,

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Speaker 1: the nineteen fifties and sixties, contacts, apparitional phenomena. There's a

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Speaker 1: lot of apparitional phenomena. People like Joan of Arc and

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Speaker 1: Edgar Casey, and Andrew and I really wanted to come

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Speaker 1: up with sort of a comprehensive explanation for the whole

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Speaker 1: paranormal field. And it is complicated, and it involves more

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Speaker 1: than one factor. There is no one thing that explains

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Speaker 1: it all. The truth is there's a lot going on

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Speaker 1: at the same time, but there's an underlying core to this,

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Speaker 1: and this underlying core to it all is the explanation

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Speaker 1: of the most bizarre stuff of all and it's been

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Speaker 1: around a long time and it is what shaman have

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Speaker 1: been trying to interact with for all time. It's what

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Speaker 1: people that are mystics, and probably even religion tries to

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Speaker 1: manipulate and somehow merge or harmonize with this force. But

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Speaker 1: it's also been fact. It's also in the entire Native

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Speaker 1: American lore and mythology, and that was really my main

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Speaker 1: focus in the book. I really focused on the Native

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Speaker 1: American beliefs about it. What they've said about not really

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Speaker 1: ancient aliens, but ancient visitations from the stars. That the

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Speaker 1: Native Americans never said that these are people coming from

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Speaker 1: other stars, although they do have a few legends of

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Speaker 1: beings coming down and said they were from the stars,

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Speaker 1: but they didn't stay anyway. That's the thumbnail of it.

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Speaker 1: But like I said, it's it's got a lot of

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Speaker 1: moving pieces in it. There is no one explanation to

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Speaker 1: all of it, but there is a core that is

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Speaker 1: exceedingly bizarre, very very strange. Are you a believer Gregg

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Speaker 1: and the ancient astronaut theory? Well, yes i am, and

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Speaker 1: I'll tell you what really convinced me. It was Carl Sagan. Sagan. Yep,

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Speaker 1: Carl Sagan, probably the greatest and most well known skeptic

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Speaker 1: of all time, probably the best known astronomer in the

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Speaker 1: sixties seventies and eighties, and he's still very famous. Carl

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Speaker 1: Sagan wrote an article in nineteen sixty three in a

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Speaker 1: journal called Space and Science, and in that journal article

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Speaker 1: he calculated the odds of life being elsewhere in the

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Speaker 1: universe and in the galaxy that we're in the Milky Way,

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Speaker 1: and he also then calculated the probability that they could

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Speaker 1: have visited Earth. And the conclusion that he made is

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Speaker 1: rather stunning, and this is quote close to an exact quote.

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Speaker 1: Roughly two million years ago, he said, they would have

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Speaker 1: begun to monitor Earth. Aliens would have these advanced civilizations,

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Speaker 1: and after the end of the last Ice Age, they

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Speaker 1: would have greatly increased the visitation. And he concluded by

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Speaker 1: saying that they would have visited Earth around ten thousand

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Speaker 1: times thousand different visits over a roughly two million year period. Now,

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Speaker 1: that sounds like a lot of time, a lot of visits,

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Speaker 1: and it is, but if you divide it by two

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Speaker 1: million years, you've got a visit every two hundred years.

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Speaker 1: So he said, initially they wouldn't have come very often.

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Speaker 1: Two hundred thousand years ago. We were in the last

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Speaker 1: Ice Age. Two million years ago, there weren't many humans

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Speaker 1: running around at the time. And what Sagan said is

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Speaker 1: when human beings began populating everywhere around Earth, that is

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Speaker 1: when they would have increased their visitation. But it was

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Speaker 1: really Carl Sagan there is and in his article Sagan

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Speaker 1: even said this is strange. Sagan said, take a look

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Speaker 1: at ancient Mesopotamia around ball back and in ancient Iraq.

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Speaker 1: Looking there, and he said, you may well find what

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Speaker 1: they left behind. So, yes, I believe in the ancient

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Speaker 1: alien thing. I do not believe that everything we see

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Speaker 1: at there is a flying saucer. I don't believe that

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Speaker 1: everything that people are reporting are aliens coming here to visit.

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Speaker 1: I don't think all abductions are aliens. I'm not saying

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Speaker 1: that something didn't happen and that people aren't seeing something.

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Speaker 1: It's just probably not aliens. And even Sagan said that

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Speaker 1: that the modern UFO phenomenon, where literally hundreds of reports

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Speaker 1: are made every night, he didn't believe that those were UFOs,

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Speaker 1: that those were extraterrestrial in nature, and neither Andrew and

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Speaker 1: I do either, But both of us do believe that

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Speaker 1: there were probably there were definitely visits in ancient times. Certainly,

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Speaker 1: then Sagan went ahead and wrote that book Contact, which

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Speaker 1: was unbelievable, wasn't it. Yes, Sagan actually wrote a couple

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Speaker 1: of things one way. I think it's The demon Haunted Planet,

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Speaker 1: where he talked about a lot of this in it,

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Speaker 1: and he was of the opinion that there's something else

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Speaker 1: going on too. And I suspect Sagan read some of

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Speaker 1: Carl Jung's work and was slightly influenced by it. I

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Speaker 1: think he was. I'm almost certain that he was. But yes, Sagan,

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Speaker 1: Sagan was in favor of trying to contact extraterrestrials to

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Speaker 1: get some sort of well routine communication with him. I

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Speaker 1: think that's what he was really seeking. And while other

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Speaker 1: astronomers believe we shouldn't be doing that, of course, and

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Speaker 1: I'm not sure that we should or not, I don't know.

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Speaker 1: And I'm old enough that I won't be around anyway

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Speaker 1: to face whatever the consequences or bad. So Yeah, Sagan

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Speaker 1: was an interesting guy. But yeah, it was really reading

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Speaker 1: Sagan that that actually convinced me, Okay, there is something

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Speaker 1: to this. I mean, you're on Ancient Aliens a lot,

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Speaker 1: and you know yourself that the show. The show is

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Speaker 1: great entertainment and people learn so much from that show

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Speaker 1: about archeology and sights and science. It's amazing. Skeptics hated,

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Speaker 1: of course, but the truth is this show really educates

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Speaker 1: a lot of people, and most people know it's entertainment.

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Speaker 1: And I don't think every single thing that humanity has

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Speaker 1: developed or invented, or all of the Crown Jewels of England.

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Speaker 1: I remember there was a show on that, or the

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Speaker 1: Founding Fathers and all that. I don't think aliens were

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Speaker 1: necessarily involved in all that. I think humans did a

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Speaker 1: lot of it. But it's a very entertaining show with

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Speaker 1: lots of information, and I think it does a service.

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Speaker 1: I think it does a real service to us. You

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Speaker 1: had mentioned Shamans, of course, and what is their connection

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Speaker 1: with the ancient alien? Well, okay, if you go back

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Speaker 1: to let's start with Carl Jung. Carl Jung's last book

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Speaker 1: was called Flying the Psychologist, Right, yeah, yeah, technically today

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Speaker 1: we would call him a psycho chiatrist. Okay, but because

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Speaker 1: he got an MD degree, but at the time there

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Speaker 1: was no such thing as psychiatry, so he was a psychologist. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Young's last book nineteen fifty nine was called Flying Saucers,

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Speaker 1: A Modern Myth of Things seen in the sky. Now

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Speaker 1: he used to term myth in the subtitle, but to

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Speaker 1: young and he said this repeatedly in that in his

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Speaker 1: other books, that all myths have a basis in reality.

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Speaker 1: But the thing about a myth, a myth is that

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Speaker 1: it builds up a mythology around it, and the mythology

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Speaker 1: gets bigger and bigger and begins encompassing areas that whatever

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Speaker 1: the original fact is that caused the myth, it wasn't

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Speaker 1: part of it. So the mythology is like a truth

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Speaker 1: that is getting expanded. So Carl Jung wrote this book

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Speaker 1: and in it he said that something was definitely real

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Speaker 1: out there and was going on, something is being scene.

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Speaker 1: And then he said that what we do, and this

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Speaker 1: is where the psychology comes in, we project a meaning

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Speaker 1: onto something that we see and don't understand, and that

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Speaker 1: meaning comes out of our own unconscious and our own

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Speaker 1: belief system. So some people will go out and see

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Speaker 1: a light in the sky and they'll because they have

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Speaker 1: underlying beliefs about UFOs and aliens and so on, they

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Speaker 1: are seeing an extraterrestrial craft in their interpretation of it.

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Speaker 1: Whereas someone who's a total skeptic, which there's loads of them,

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Speaker 1: out there, they see the same thing, and what they're

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Speaker 1: going to do is use their belief system and interpret

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Speaker 1: that unknown light flying around in the sky and say, oh,

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Speaker 1: it's just a it's a helicopter, or it's a plane,

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Speaker 1: or it's a n or something, and we just don't

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Speaker 1: know what it is, but it's one of those things.

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Speaker 1: So that's basically what Young said. But he also said

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Speaker 1: that at the time UFOs were in their heyday, it

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Speaker 1: was during the Cold War, really the beginnings of the

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Speaker 1: Cold War, and people were really terrified of nuclear annihilation.

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Speaker 1: So what we projected onto those unknown objects was a

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Speaker 1: desire for salvation. We wanted to be saved. And recently

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Speaker 1: I've actually seen people say that they don't believe. You

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Speaker 1: discuss the Ukraine a bit in the first two hours

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Speaker 1: of your show tonight, and I've seen people say that, well,

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Speaker 1: nuclear weapons will never be used because the aliens will

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Speaker 1: stop it. And that is the same thing Young was

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Speaker 1: talking about, about our desire for salvation from an outward source,

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Speaker 1: which some people turn to God, some may turn to

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Speaker 1: some other religion, and some people will turn to aliens.

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Speaker 1: So okay, so yeah, Andrew, and I do believe that

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Speaker 1: some UFOs are very real and very genuine. We do

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Speaker 1: believe that ancient aliens were here. They may they're not

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Speaker 1: ancient anymore, but they may still be visiting some But

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Speaker 1: the bulk of what's going on is not that. The

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Speaker 1: bulk of what's going on goes back to shamanism, and

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Speaker 1: that is what Young really discussed in that book in depth.

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Speaker 1: He said that the whole object of shamanism is to

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Speaker 1: get into contact with a much higher power or higher force.

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Speaker 1: Listen to more Coast to Coast AM every weeknight at

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Speaker 1: one am Eastern and go to Coast to Coast am

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Speaker 1: dot com for more