1 00:00:02,840 --> 00:00:06,000 Speaker 1: This is Alec Baldwin and you're listening to Here's the thing, 2 00:00:06,760 --> 00:00:10,960 Speaker 1: My chance to talk with artists, policymakers and performers, to 3 00:00:11,039 --> 00:00:14,920 Speaker 1: hear their stories. What inspires their creations, what decisions change 4 00:00:14,960 --> 00:00:22,040 Speaker 1: their careers, what relationships influenced their work. Med San Saint Frontier, 5 00:00:22,600 --> 00:00:25,840 Speaker 1: or Doctors Without Borders, as it's known here in the US, 6 00:00:26,400 --> 00:00:30,159 Speaker 1: is a humanitarian aid organization that provides medical help to 7 00:00:30,240 --> 00:00:35,519 Speaker 1: war torn areas and developing countries facing epidemics. It's been 8 00:00:35,560 --> 00:00:38,080 Speaker 1: in the news lately because of a US led air 9 00:00:38,120 --> 00:00:42,000 Speaker 1: strike last fall that destroyed an MSF run hospital in 10 00:00:42,120 --> 00:00:47,479 Speaker 1: Condu's Afghanistan, killing over forty people. My guest today is 11 00:00:47,600 --> 00:00:51,520 Speaker 1: jo Ant Leu, the international president of m SF since 12 00:00:51,560 --> 00:00:56,680 Speaker 1: two thousand thirteen. Founded by doctors and journalists in nineteen 13 00:00:56,800 --> 00:01:00,920 Speaker 1: seventy one, m SF differs from the Red US and 14 00:01:00,960 --> 00:01:04,080 Speaker 1: that they speak frankly about the injustices they witnessed in 15 00:01:04,080 --> 00:01:07,320 Speaker 1: the area as they serve. That's what it has brought, 16 00:01:08,400 --> 00:01:11,800 Speaker 1: is this medical act with the fact that we speak 17 00:01:11,840 --> 00:01:16,640 Speaker 1: out on what we witness. How would you describe the 18 00:01:16,680 --> 00:01:20,200 Speaker 1: mechanism of how the organization works? For example, where you 19 00:01:20,319 --> 00:01:23,360 Speaker 1: go where you don't go. I'm assuming there's places you 20 00:01:23,400 --> 00:01:25,920 Speaker 1: don't go because you don't feel safe there. You can't 21 00:01:25,959 --> 00:01:29,360 Speaker 1: be guaranteed safety. Obviously in recent months you in places 22 00:01:29,360 --> 00:01:32,360 Speaker 1: where you thought you were saving you weren't. So how 23 00:01:32,560 --> 00:01:38,040 Speaker 1: what's the decision making process about where you going? Why? Well, 24 00:01:38,120 --> 00:01:42,280 Speaker 1: in terms of our basic mandate, it's to bring medical 25 00:01:42,360 --> 00:01:46,720 Speaker 1: humanitary an aid two population in distress either stilling to 26 00:01:46,720 --> 00:01:50,000 Speaker 1: read to mandate disaster, which could be conflict arm conflict 27 00:01:50,080 --> 00:01:53,840 Speaker 1: most of the time, or natural disaster. And so we 28 00:01:53,920 --> 00:01:57,960 Speaker 1: end up working from war zones like South Sudan, the 29 00:01:58,040 --> 00:02:01,520 Speaker 1: Central African Republic, or in the Middle East right now 30 00:02:01,560 --> 00:02:06,000 Speaker 1: in Syria and Yemen. Two places where there's an earthquake 31 00:02:06,480 --> 00:02:10,320 Speaker 1: like we've seen in Haiti, or in response to an 32 00:02:10,320 --> 00:02:15,040 Speaker 1: epidemic like we are seeing with measles in the Democratic 33 00:02:15,040 --> 00:02:18,360 Speaker 1: Republic of Congo. So this is the range of where 34 00:02:18,600 --> 00:02:24,560 Speaker 1: we act. And you mobilize predominantly local forces in terms 35 00:02:24,560 --> 00:02:26,960 Speaker 1: of the medical community in a certain area, or you 36 00:02:27,080 --> 00:02:31,160 Speaker 1: bring in outside medical assistance. Are both, so we do 37 00:02:31,240 --> 00:02:34,720 Speaker 1: both and today met San San Francaire doctors without borders 38 00:02:34,760 --> 00:02:37,880 Speaker 1: to present a workforce are about thirty to thirty five 39 00:02:37,960 --> 00:02:43,320 Speaker 1: thousand people overall national and international, and the ratio is 40 00:02:43,440 --> 00:02:48,639 Speaker 1: for each international we have about ten national worker. We're 41 00:02:48,639 --> 00:02:52,080 Speaker 1: working about seventy countries and we have an income budget 42 00:02:52,120 --> 00:02:56,320 Speaker 1: of one pointry billion. So in a country nine that 43 00:02:56,480 --> 00:02:59,840 Speaker 1: of ten people are local, are are indigenous if you will, 44 00:03:00,080 --> 00:03:03,160 Speaker 1: now when you mentioned that you have thirty to thirty 45 00:03:03,200 --> 00:03:06,960 Speaker 1: five thousand medical professionals worldwide at any given time. They 46 00:03:06,960 --> 00:03:09,160 Speaker 1: are people who work in the medical community who come 47 00:03:09,160 --> 00:03:12,280 Speaker 1: and volunteer. If you they have other jobs. Correct, they're 48 00:03:12,320 --> 00:03:15,680 Speaker 1: not full time staff of the national staff are often 49 00:03:15,840 --> 00:03:19,000 Speaker 1: full time staff. Sometimes you you you do that for 50 00:03:19,040 --> 00:03:21,760 Speaker 1: a few years as a full time and then after 51 00:03:21,880 --> 00:03:24,440 Speaker 1: you just go back to your professional life. You grew 52 00:03:24,480 --> 00:03:28,840 Speaker 1: up in Canada, yes, in Quebec, yes, And when you 53 00:03:29,200 --> 00:03:32,440 Speaker 1: were going to medical school, was this something you considered 54 00:03:32,480 --> 00:03:36,480 Speaker 1: an option? Did you think about this kind of relief work? Well, actually, 55 00:03:36,600 --> 00:03:40,520 Speaker 1: I'm one of those very non original people who when 56 00:03:40,560 --> 00:03:42,560 Speaker 1: I was a teenager, I wanted to be a doctor's 57 00:03:42,600 --> 00:03:47,200 Speaker 1: without borders. So this is something that that has started 58 00:03:47,200 --> 00:03:51,440 Speaker 1: when I was a teenager around about thirteen fourteen years old, 59 00:03:52,160 --> 00:03:55,880 Speaker 1: and and in my quest for meaning in life, I've 60 00:03:55,880 --> 00:03:59,160 Speaker 1: read several books. I think like any other teenager we 61 00:03:59,200 --> 00:04:03,920 Speaker 1: all read then in the Auto Motorcycle and then started Yeah, 62 00:04:04,000 --> 00:04:07,400 Speaker 1: and I read one book that was called lepen Almond 63 00:04:07,560 --> 00:04:09,760 Speaker 1: and the Peace in the World, and it was basically 64 00:04:11,080 --> 00:04:14,440 Speaker 1: a testimony of a physician and work overseas with MSF 65 00:04:14,920 --> 00:04:17,040 Speaker 1: and I remember reading it and I just said, Wow, 66 00:04:17,200 --> 00:04:20,120 Speaker 1: this is so cool, and I said, this is what 67 00:04:20,160 --> 00:04:22,599 Speaker 1: I would like to do. But sometimes you know, you're 68 00:04:22,600 --> 00:04:26,040 Speaker 1: a teenager and you make those kind of of statement 69 00:04:26,120 --> 00:04:30,120 Speaker 1: for yourself, but it takes a while to materialize. But 70 00:04:30,200 --> 00:04:33,320 Speaker 1: I'm someone who always deeply believe in in community life 71 00:04:33,520 --> 00:04:37,479 Speaker 1: and and working for the common public good. So I 72 00:04:37,560 --> 00:04:42,360 Speaker 1: end up working and doing international corporation relief work when 73 00:04:42,360 --> 00:04:45,200 Speaker 1: I was eighteen years old in Africa, and when I 74 00:04:45,240 --> 00:04:46,720 Speaker 1: came back and said, this is it. I'm going to 75 00:04:46,800 --> 00:04:48,640 Speaker 1: go into medicine. I'm going to go and work in 76 00:04:48,680 --> 00:04:52,320 Speaker 1: developing world and that's what I'm gonna do. And I'm 77 00:04:52,360 --> 00:04:54,760 Speaker 1: going to do that with Alcos Without Borders. It went 78 00:04:54,800 --> 00:04:58,240 Speaker 1: to McGill in Canada and then came down to New 79 00:04:58,320 --> 00:05:00,800 Speaker 1: York and you were trained at Yeah, I went on 80 00:05:00,920 --> 00:05:04,760 Speaker 1: in my pz R at the n y U. And 81 00:05:05,400 --> 00:05:09,839 Speaker 1: at that time were you only going to school or 82 00:05:09,839 --> 00:05:12,159 Speaker 1: were you taking off sort of speaking, doing some of 83 00:05:12,200 --> 00:05:16,240 Speaker 1: this relief work while you were in school. So during 84 00:05:16,279 --> 00:05:19,160 Speaker 1: my training, I end up doing what we call elective 85 00:05:19,240 --> 00:05:22,839 Speaker 1: medical elective overseas, so I end up going in different places. 86 00:05:23,960 --> 00:05:27,960 Speaker 1: For example, I went to Haiti, I went to Kenya, 87 00:05:28,520 --> 00:05:31,560 Speaker 1: I went to Chad and I end up as well 88 00:05:31,600 --> 00:05:34,320 Speaker 1: working up north because I always told myself that if 89 00:05:34,360 --> 00:05:37,440 Speaker 1: I was willing to go in the middle of nowhere 90 00:05:37,520 --> 00:05:40,599 Speaker 1: in the war, I should be able to go in 91 00:05:40,680 --> 00:05:43,320 Speaker 1: places where they don't have enough doctor in my country. 92 00:05:43,360 --> 00:05:47,239 Speaker 1: So I always until recently, I always did some work 93 00:05:48,040 --> 00:05:52,400 Speaker 1: up north in Canada. What was the first spot he 94 00:05:52,480 --> 00:05:55,400 Speaker 1: went to where you did either disaster related or war 95 00:05:55,480 --> 00:05:59,040 Speaker 1: related medical relief work. Right after my first year of premed, 96 00:06:00,400 --> 00:06:03,240 Speaker 1: I really wanted to get exposure, so I went around 97 00:06:03,320 --> 00:06:06,280 Speaker 1: and begged to go somewhere. And I've told people I'm 98 00:06:06,279 --> 00:06:09,520 Speaker 1: going to do whatever, you know, clean the floor. I 99 00:06:09,720 --> 00:06:12,320 Speaker 1: just want to go. But why do you think that is? 100 00:06:12,360 --> 00:06:16,040 Speaker 1: What was it in you? Do you understand yourself why 101 00:06:16,080 --> 00:06:19,640 Speaker 1: you wanted to go do that? Hi? I think that 102 00:06:19,800 --> 00:06:27,240 Speaker 1: um being the daughter of a migrant as something to 103 00:06:27,279 --> 00:06:31,880 Speaker 1: play about it. I'm awfully grateful for everything I've gotten 104 00:06:31,880 --> 00:06:35,520 Speaker 1: in life and the fact that I got access to education, 105 00:06:36,240 --> 00:06:38,359 Speaker 1: and somehow, I guess I always wanted to give back 106 00:06:38,400 --> 00:06:40,880 Speaker 1: and I wanted to do something meaningful. I'm someone of action. 107 00:06:41,000 --> 00:06:43,640 Speaker 1: I'm a bit some people say I'm a bit hyperactive. 108 00:06:44,200 --> 00:06:47,880 Speaker 1: So that was a fit for me. Your parents emigrated 109 00:06:47,920 --> 00:06:51,360 Speaker 1: from China, Yes, and they were in the restaurant business. Yes. 110 00:06:51,680 --> 00:06:55,000 Speaker 1: Do you have siblings as well? Yeah? They all professional 111 00:06:55,000 --> 00:06:57,679 Speaker 1: people as well the profession, but not in the medical field. 112 00:06:57,720 --> 00:07:01,120 Speaker 1: And you're the one doctor in the family. And so 113 00:07:01,200 --> 00:07:02,760 Speaker 1: what it was? What was the first place you went 114 00:07:03,400 --> 00:07:06,200 Speaker 1: after Premiate? I went for for three months in Chad 115 00:07:06,320 --> 00:07:09,720 Speaker 1: during the war. It was wartime between Libya and Chad, 116 00:07:10,120 --> 00:07:14,800 Speaker 1: and I work in what we call a dispensary and 117 00:07:14,800 --> 00:07:18,080 Speaker 1: and did primary healthcare. But we were doing deliveries and 118 00:07:18,120 --> 00:07:20,120 Speaker 1: I remember doing those three months. I end up doing 119 00:07:20,160 --> 00:07:23,640 Speaker 1: fifty deliveries. The reality is, when I look back at it, 120 00:07:23,720 --> 00:07:25,560 Speaker 1: I'm like, oh my god, I didn't know what I 121 00:07:25,600 --> 00:07:28,120 Speaker 1: was doing really when I once I finished my training, 122 00:07:28,560 --> 00:07:30,800 Speaker 1: But that's what I wanted to do. And you were 123 00:07:30,840 --> 00:07:34,720 Speaker 1: there for three months. And when you left, were you 124 00:07:35,400 --> 00:07:38,840 Speaker 1: spent or you upset or were you energized? And you 125 00:07:38,880 --> 00:07:44,040 Speaker 1: wanted more, see more energized. I've I just said, this 126 00:07:44,080 --> 00:07:45,800 Speaker 1: is exactly what I want to do, but I want 127 00:07:45,840 --> 00:07:47,600 Speaker 1: to do it with I want to be skilled to 128 00:07:47,600 --> 00:07:49,760 Speaker 1: do that. You want to go back and finish your training? Yeah, 129 00:07:50,200 --> 00:07:52,640 Speaker 1: was there ever a time you did this when you 130 00:07:52,680 --> 00:07:54,680 Speaker 1: said to yourself, it's too much for me. I don't 131 00:07:54,680 --> 00:07:57,880 Speaker 1: think I can handle this. So they've been tough moment 132 00:07:58,480 --> 00:08:02,120 Speaker 1: And it's not all rosy. I think it's when you 133 00:08:02,240 --> 00:08:05,400 Speaker 1: try to work and you feel yourself so much in danger, 134 00:08:06,840 --> 00:08:09,040 Speaker 1: and then you are as well thinking that you are 135 00:08:09,160 --> 00:08:12,920 Speaker 1: putting other people in danger. And that's what happened to 136 00:08:13,040 --> 00:08:15,800 Speaker 1: me when I was in Chichenia. We were on the 137 00:08:15,880 --> 00:08:18,400 Speaker 1: attack on a regular basis, that's one thing, but the 138 00:08:18,440 --> 00:08:22,400 Speaker 1: threat of being abducted was so huge back then, and 139 00:08:22,520 --> 00:08:25,200 Speaker 1: we knew that if something were ever to happen to 140 00:08:25,400 --> 00:08:28,880 Speaker 1: the staff, the MSF staff, then we will pull out. 141 00:08:29,600 --> 00:08:34,600 Speaker 1: So we were praying for not having anything bad happening 142 00:08:34,640 --> 00:08:39,760 Speaker 1: to us because we knew they were delivering really needed aid. 143 00:08:41,240 --> 00:08:44,120 Speaker 1: On the other end, it was so nerve wracking out 144 00:08:44,120 --> 00:08:47,160 Speaker 1: of fear. Yeah, it's and and and and I hate 145 00:08:47,200 --> 00:08:48,800 Speaker 1: that because I think I was This is so self 146 00:08:48,800 --> 00:08:51,320 Speaker 1: centered and compared to what all those people are going through. 147 00:08:51,480 --> 00:08:54,840 Speaker 1: Come on, get a grip on yourself, go through that. 148 00:08:55,000 --> 00:08:56,640 Speaker 1: So when you were there, but kind of work did 149 00:08:56,640 --> 00:09:01,000 Speaker 1: you primarily do? MSF was running something Nick, It was 150 00:09:01,040 --> 00:09:05,880 Speaker 1: a very difficult time because we were supporting hospital that 151 00:09:05,960 --> 00:09:09,800 Speaker 1: we're basically undercover because it was such a difficult environment 152 00:09:09,840 --> 00:09:12,600 Speaker 1: to work. But you thought that that was at one 153 00:09:12,640 --> 00:09:17,600 Speaker 1: point more than you could bear. It was tough. It 154 00:09:17,720 --> 00:09:19,839 Speaker 1: was my soldiers and war. I mean, you're exposed to 155 00:09:19,880 --> 00:09:22,800 Speaker 1: some pretty tough thing and and and in some other places. 156 00:09:23,040 --> 00:09:26,520 Speaker 1: Is it's just and I don't particularly like to talk 157 00:09:26,520 --> 00:09:29,840 Speaker 1: about it, but because I really do think it's what 158 00:09:29,880 --> 00:09:32,960 Speaker 1: we go through is difficult. But the reality I just 159 00:09:33,040 --> 00:09:34,680 Speaker 1: go through for a couple of weeks of a couple 160 00:09:34,720 --> 00:09:38,160 Speaker 1: of months in my life. I never chanced to leave, 161 00:09:38,280 --> 00:09:40,440 Speaker 1: and I leave and I just go back to my life. 162 00:09:41,160 --> 00:09:47,320 Speaker 1: But I know that Chechen or Congolese people are back 163 00:09:47,320 --> 00:09:51,360 Speaker 1: then or today, Syrian or Yemen people are going through 164 00:09:51,360 --> 00:09:55,160 Speaker 1: that and they cannot go anywhere else. Yeah, So you 165 00:09:55,200 --> 00:09:58,199 Speaker 1: went back to Montreal, and where do you plug it 166 00:09:58,240 --> 00:09:59,840 Speaker 1: and go back to work? What do you do? You're 167 00:09:59,840 --> 00:10:02,960 Speaker 1: in in office for for MSF? No, No, no, when 168 00:10:03,000 --> 00:10:05,400 Speaker 1: when when I was doing this this this is really 169 00:10:05,440 --> 00:10:07,840 Speaker 1: a lot of film work, not as an international president. 170 00:10:08,240 --> 00:10:10,240 Speaker 1: I was going back to my work doing e er. 171 00:10:11,160 --> 00:10:14,160 Speaker 1: I remember when I came back from Therefore into that 172 00:10:14,600 --> 00:10:17,840 Speaker 1: in two thousand and three and two tho four, Every 173 00:10:17,840 --> 00:10:21,040 Speaker 1: single child I saw, I kept telling the parents, this 174 00:10:21,120 --> 00:10:24,920 Speaker 1: is a really well filled child. I had more difficulty 175 00:10:25,000 --> 00:10:27,520 Speaker 1: to adjust back home than to go to the field. 176 00:10:27,960 --> 00:10:33,360 Speaker 1: Your focus is pediatrics, correct, You're a pediatrician. Every time 177 00:10:33,360 --> 00:10:36,520 Speaker 1: I see a representation of what is horror to me abroad, 178 00:10:36,920 --> 00:10:39,320 Speaker 1: I see children suffering, I see children starving, I see 179 00:10:39,360 --> 00:10:43,079 Speaker 1: children dying, I see children injured, and I was wondering 180 00:10:43,160 --> 00:10:45,840 Speaker 1: if that became a particularly I don't want to make 181 00:10:45,840 --> 00:10:49,640 Speaker 1: the whole conversation about suffering and misery, but you seem tough, 182 00:10:50,480 --> 00:10:53,440 Speaker 1: and were you always tough? Did you have to become 183 00:10:53,559 --> 00:11:00,160 Speaker 1: tough to do this job. You have to be the 184 00:11:00,160 --> 00:11:03,520 Speaker 1: tough side, for sure, and you need to focus on 185 00:11:03,559 --> 00:11:07,480 Speaker 1: what you can save in terms of life and not 186 00:11:07,640 --> 00:11:12,319 Speaker 1: focus on your loss. I'm saying that because I think 187 00:11:12,320 --> 00:11:15,760 Speaker 1: it was two thousand and twelve and there was a 188 00:11:15,760 --> 00:11:19,320 Speaker 1: big famine in some of and people were crossing over 189 00:11:19,360 --> 00:11:22,080 Speaker 1: the country to come to Kenya that that camp and 190 00:11:22,120 --> 00:11:25,800 Speaker 1: it will walk for weeks. And I remember that in 191 00:11:26,320 --> 00:11:31,560 Speaker 1: one day I lost six children. And I work in 192 00:11:31,559 --> 00:11:34,839 Speaker 1: the tertiary healthcare center in Montreal. We see eighty thou 193 00:11:35,080 --> 00:11:37,959 Speaker 1: people on a yearly basis and we see six deaths 194 00:11:38,000 --> 00:11:42,199 Speaker 1: over the year, and so in in only a few hours, 195 00:11:42,280 --> 00:11:45,640 Speaker 1: I had seen that. And and I think that this 196 00:11:45,640 --> 00:11:48,920 Speaker 1: this is the huge difficulty. It's the confrontation with death. 197 00:11:49,400 --> 00:11:52,520 Speaker 1: And it was the same thing about Ebola and why 198 00:11:52,559 --> 00:11:57,720 Speaker 1: a Bola was so difficult at the human level, it's 199 00:11:58,400 --> 00:12:03,600 Speaker 1: the confrontation on a daily basis with death. We are 200 00:12:03,679 --> 00:12:06,959 Speaker 1: trained to save lives and what we did with the 201 00:12:07,120 --> 00:12:11,559 Speaker 1: Bola is of our patient. We lost them. And I 202 00:12:11,559 --> 00:12:16,240 Speaker 1: always told myself, whatever I can do to make sure 203 00:12:16,280 --> 00:12:21,439 Speaker 1: that we cannot repeat history, in my very modest capacity, 204 00:12:21,600 --> 00:12:23,600 Speaker 1: is that we try to do it. I think it's 205 00:12:23,600 --> 00:12:28,240 Speaker 1: completely abnormal that we have somehow found out about the 206 00:12:28,320 --> 00:12:32,880 Speaker 1: virus in nineteen six but despite that, more than four 207 00:12:33,000 --> 00:12:37,960 Speaker 1: years afterwards we had no treatment, no vaccine, and no 208 00:12:38,360 --> 00:12:44,080 Speaker 1: rapid dynastic tools. And that's unacceptable that we had to 209 00:12:44,160 --> 00:12:47,960 Speaker 1: face that. And I think today this is the challenge 210 00:12:48,120 --> 00:12:52,520 Speaker 1: about everything the century has to offer to us. We 211 00:12:52,600 --> 00:12:55,840 Speaker 1: need to put our act together because we have other 212 00:12:55,920 --> 00:12:59,760 Speaker 1: threats today that I think we can somehow troubles should 213 00:12:59,760 --> 00:13:03,199 Speaker 1: a head of time. And this is something about well, 214 00:13:03,280 --> 00:13:06,880 Speaker 1: I think that antibiotic resistance is a big one. It's 215 00:13:06,920 --> 00:13:09,760 Speaker 1: you know, we keep you know, fantasizing about what it 216 00:13:09,760 --> 00:13:12,680 Speaker 1: would be the next bio threat, the next pandemic. It's 217 00:13:12,720 --> 00:13:18,640 Speaker 1: actually already here. So we're gonna basically save our grandparents 218 00:13:19,520 --> 00:13:22,559 Speaker 1: from their triple bypass and they're gonna die for the 219 00:13:22,640 --> 00:13:26,200 Speaker 1: pneumonia because we would not get the right antibiotic to 220 00:13:26,280 --> 00:13:30,640 Speaker 1: save them. When you say the antibiotic resistance, we have 221 00:13:30,720 --> 00:13:35,000 Speaker 1: built up people's tolerance to antibiotics and now we have 222 00:13:35,200 --> 00:13:37,439 Speaker 1: we have nothing left or we're running out of bullets 223 00:13:37,480 --> 00:13:40,800 Speaker 1: to kill these organizing And this is what I Bola 224 00:13:40,960 --> 00:13:45,200 Speaker 1: start us is like something may happen in somewhere in 225 00:13:45,280 --> 00:13:47,600 Speaker 1: the distant world that we don't even know where to 226 00:13:47,640 --> 00:13:50,480 Speaker 1: put on the map, but it will have replaying effect 227 00:13:50,880 --> 00:13:55,120 Speaker 1: and your comfortable New York City life and you you 228 00:13:55,200 --> 00:13:59,480 Speaker 1: went through that with Bola. When you are going back 229 00:13:59,520 --> 00:14:02,240 Speaker 1: and forth to these hot spots, if you will, or 230 00:14:02,400 --> 00:14:04,240 Speaker 1: whatever term you want to use, your going back and 231 00:14:04,280 --> 00:14:06,160 Speaker 1: doing all this good work and you're coming back to 232 00:14:06,200 --> 00:14:11,080 Speaker 1: Canada finish your training. What year and what goes into 233 00:14:11,080 --> 00:14:13,880 Speaker 1: the decision for you to get into the administrative level 234 00:14:14,080 --> 00:14:18,080 Speaker 1: of MSF. I made the conscious decision that's that's what 235 00:14:18,200 --> 00:14:21,520 Speaker 1: I wanted because I believe that today we need more 236 00:14:21,640 --> 00:14:25,280 Speaker 1: leadership in terms of health issues. But back then I 237 00:14:25,280 --> 00:14:27,400 Speaker 1: didn't have a precise idea that I would do that. 238 00:14:27,520 --> 00:14:31,000 Speaker 1: And then the position open up and I ran for 239 00:14:31,040 --> 00:14:33,880 Speaker 1: it and I got elected. So what year was that? 240 00:14:34,480 --> 00:14:38,880 Speaker 1: It's June. So actually my mandate is coming up for 241 00:14:39,080 --> 00:14:41,840 Speaker 1: term now, and you are eligible to do it again 242 00:14:41,920 --> 00:14:44,320 Speaker 1: or you don't get a second term, you need to run. 243 00:14:44,560 --> 00:14:47,320 Speaker 1: You're gonna run? Are you going to run? Most likely? 244 00:14:48,880 --> 00:14:51,080 Speaker 1: I thought we were going to get your campaign announcement 245 00:14:51,080 --> 00:14:56,480 Speaker 1: on our show How Exciting Um? What is around the world? 246 00:14:56,800 --> 00:15:01,040 Speaker 1: What would you say or the primary causes of the 247 00:15:01,080 --> 00:15:04,960 Speaker 1: problems that you see? Are they purely political? Is it diet? 248 00:15:05,040 --> 00:15:08,600 Speaker 1: Is it food? Is it a hygiene? Is a cleanliness? 249 00:15:09,480 --> 00:15:12,600 Speaker 1: What are the things you think can happen that will 250 00:15:12,840 --> 00:15:16,760 Speaker 1: change the situation you've come across in the world. Well, 251 00:15:16,800 --> 00:15:19,360 Speaker 1: I'm not sure I'm that competent to answer this very 252 00:15:19,760 --> 00:15:24,000 Speaker 1: complex question. I remember once I was asked, if you 253 00:15:24,040 --> 00:15:26,200 Speaker 1: had one wish, what would you wish for the world, 254 00:15:26,560 --> 00:15:30,840 Speaker 1: and I would said enough water. That's a problem. It's 255 00:15:30,880 --> 00:15:34,000 Speaker 1: a huge issue because if you don't have enough water, 256 00:15:34,200 --> 00:15:37,720 Speaker 1: then you don't you can do agriculture, you can feed yourself, 257 00:15:37,760 --> 00:15:40,200 Speaker 1: but as well after that you can clean yourself and 258 00:15:40,280 --> 00:15:43,680 Speaker 1: you cannot prevent infection. And so I really to think 259 00:15:43,680 --> 00:15:46,920 Speaker 1: that if you want a thriving society, you need to 260 00:15:46,960 --> 00:15:49,160 Speaker 1: be fed. In the work that you did in certain 261 00:15:49,200 --> 00:15:53,560 Speaker 1: areas of the world, particularly in Africa where there was drought, 262 00:15:53,600 --> 00:15:56,600 Speaker 1: where there was persistent drought, were you led to believe 263 00:15:56,640 --> 00:15:58,720 Speaker 1: by people you work with that climate change was a 264 00:15:58,720 --> 00:16:02,560 Speaker 1: big part of that. I think it plays a role, 265 00:16:02,640 --> 00:16:05,200 Speaker 1: and I can see to which extent, but we know 266 00:16:05,360 --> 00:16:11,720 Speaker 1: that it's it's a game changer before disaster strikes. MSF 267 00:16:11,840 --> 00:16:15,400 Speaker 1: places doctors as well as water and sanitation experts in 268 00:16:15,560 --> 00:16:19,240 Speaker 1: high risk areas. Their website reports that they've treated their 269 00:16:19,280 --> 00:16:26,160 Speaker 1: first patient from Hades two earthquake within three minutes. Listen 270 00:16:26,240 --> 00:16:29,600 Speaker 1: to the Here's the Thing archive where Dr Robert Lusting 271 00:16:29,760 --> 00:16:32,560 Speaker 1: talks about what he would do to solve the world's 272 00:16:32,600 --> 00:16:39,160 Speaker 1: obesity problem. I would think very strongly about limiting access 273 00:16:39,200 --> 00:16:45,000 Speaker 1: of sugar beverages to infants and children like zero. Take 274 00:16:45,000 --> 00:17:02,360 Speaker 1: a listen at Here's the Thing dot org. This is 275 00:17:02,360 --> 00:17:06,080 Speaker 1: Alec Baldwin and you're listening to Here's the Thing. My 276 00:17:06,160 --> 00:17:10,920 Speaker 1: guest today is Joanne Leeu, the international president of Medicine 277 00:17:10,960 --> 00:17:15,719 Speaker 1: San Frontier or Doctors Without Borders, the international aid organization 278 00:17:15,760 --> 00:17:19,520 Speaker 1: that provides medical relief to countries in need. In two 279 00:17:19,560 --> 00:17:23,480 Speaker 1: thousand eleven, unable to secure permission to provide care for 280 00:17:23,680 --> 00:17:28,240 Speaker 1: undocumented migrants, MSF pulled out of Thailand. They had been 281 00:17:28,280 --> 00:17:31,600 Speaker 1: there for thirty five years. We don't like to think 282 00:17:31,640 --> 00:17:35,840 Speaker 1: of ourselves as being a permanent presence because it's need basis. 283 00:17:36,359 --> 00:17:40,760 Speaker 1: But the reality there are some conflicts that have been 284 00:17:40,800 --> 00:17:45,120 Speaker 1: ongoing for decades. But if we look at our portfolio 285 00:17:45,200 --> 00:17:48,760 Speaker 1: of countries where we are, it's basically a third of 286 00:17:49,320 --> 00:17:52,760 Speaker 1: where we work it's in conflict area, about the third 287 00:17:52,800 --> 00:17:55,840 Speaker 1: of it it is in post conflict area, and and 288 00:17:55,880 --> 00:17:59,080 Speaker 1: about the third it's it's it's it's roughly in what 289 00:17:59,200 --> 00:18:04,000 Speaker 1: I call table environment, where we work more in terms 290 00:18:04,119 --> 00:18:09,439 Speaker 1: of either access to healthcare or for epidemics or for 291 00:18:09,520 --> 00:18:14,240 Speaker 1: pandemic like HIV and So the reality is it's context 292 00:18:14,320 --> 00:18:17,480 Speaker 1: like democratic complique of Congo. We've been there for decades 293 00:18:18,160 --> 00:18:21,280 Speaker 1: south so that I was visiting it this far. We've 294 00:18:21,359 --> 00:18:24,399 Speaker 1: been there since nine three because we haven't found a 295 00:18:24,400 --> 00:18:27,840 Speaker 1: political solution to what happened. We wish we could leave, 296 00:18:27,960 --> 00:18:31,960 Speaker 1: but every year there's more needs, so or there's sustained needs. 297 00:18:32,760 --> 00:18:38,720 Speaker 1: Where you talk about AIDS, which society has been attempting 298 00:18:38,760 --> 00:18:43,480 Speaker 1: to deal with the AIDS epidemic for h thirty five years, 299 00:18:43,520 --> 00:18:47,040 Speaker 1: now more than thirty five years. What needs to change 300 00:18:47,200 --> 00:18:50,960 Speaker 1: for AIDS to turn around? No, I think there is. 301 00:18:51,880 --> 00:18:55,199 Speaker 1: There's been a deceleration in a few areas. But the 302 00:18:55,320 --> 00:19:00,720 Speaker 1: reality is what we're facing is people have forgotten about 303 00:19:01,080 --> 00:19:04,520 Speaker 1: about it. There was a full generation who were really 304 00:19:05,160 --> 00:19:12,280 Speaker 1: aware about AIDS and how it was transmitted, and and 305 00:19:12,359 --> 00:19:16,080 Speaker 1: now there's the new generation didn't go through the eighties 306 00:19:16,080 --> 00:19:20,320 Speaker 1: and nineties, so safe sex is not as much of 307 00:19:20,359 --> 00:19:22,840 Speaker 1: an imperative as what it was in our generation. There 308 00:19:22,920 --> 00:19:27,000 Speaker 1: someone else's problem. Yes, So that's interesting because the fastest 309 00:19:27,080 --> 00:19:32,000 Speaker 1: growing population that is getting infected or young adult nowadays. 310 00:19:32,080 --> 00:19:35,919 Speaker 1: So I'm talking about I know the figures for for example, 311 00:19:36,000 --> 00:19:38,040 Speaker 1: for Canada, but we know that that there's the young 312 00:19:38,359 --> 00:19:40,719 Speaker 1: and the developed world. Yeah, yeah, it's just because that 313 00:19:40,800 --> 00:19:44,320 Speaker 1: new generation didn't go through for us. You know, the 314 00:19:44,359 --> 00:19:47,959 Speaker 1: real issue for a's right now. It's it's about making 315 00:19:47,960 --> 00:19:51,480 Speaker 1: sure that that is going to stay as a priority. 316 00:19:51,920 --> 00:19:54,639 Speaker 1: A disease has been in the landscape for such a 317 00:19:54,680 --> 00:19:58,160 Speaker 1: long time, to keep the imperitive, to continue to find 318 00:19:58,160 --> 00:20:01,440 Speaker 1: the right tools and treatment. The is still looking for example, 319 00:20:01,920 --> 00:20:06,080 Speaker 1: for combined therapy in surrupt for children that is palatable 320 00:20:07,320 --> 00:20:11,160 Speaker 1: after so many years. Still we're fighting for that. We're 321 00:20:11,200 --> 00:20:14,720 Speaker 1: doing that work. Well, we are somehow I msself doing 322 00:20:14,760 --> 00:20:18,680 Speaker 1: it through our research and development developing your own drugs. 323 00:20:18,720 --> 00:20:21,600 Speaker 1: We have actually have helped the creation of what we 324 00:20:21,720 --> 00:20:26,280 Speaker 1: call Drug Fund Elected Disease Initiative, And what they do 325 00:20:26,440 --> 00:20:30,359 Speaker 1: is they developed combined therapy of our existing drugs or 326 00:20:30,480 --> 00:20:34,199 Speaker 1: developed new drugs from the Elected Disease And so we 327 00:20:34,280 --> 00:20:37,840 Speaker 1: have asked them to look into combined therapy for children 328 00:20:37,960 --> 00:20:42,120 Speaker 1: formula for AIDS. UM. I'm assuming you don't do any 329 00:20:42,119 --> 00:20:45,600 Speaker 1: work in the United States, or do you MSF is 330 00:20:45,600 --> 00:20:47,800 Speaker 1: in the United States. Well, we have looked into it. 331 00:20:48,280 --> 00:20:50,640 Speaker 1: One of the things that we've been on the regular 332 00:20:50,720 --> 00:20:54,720 Speaker 1: basis questioning ourselves is about check as disease. And because 333 00:20:54,760 --> 00:20:59,520 Speaker 1: of the immigration pattern here, there's a lot of people 334 00:20:59,560 --> 00:21:03,280 Speaker 1: from out America that I have this disease. But described 335 00:21:03,280 --> 00:21:07,760 Speaker 1: the disease. It's a disease that basically has no huge 336 00:21:07,800 --> 00:21:11,080 Speaker 1: effect when you get infected initially, but down the road 337 00:21:11,720 --> 00:21:16,040 Speaker 1: you've got heart failure. It's through a type of mosquitoes. 338 00:21:16,359 --> 00:21:19,959 Speaker 1: But and it's it's the family of of of the parasite. 339 00:21:19,960 --> 00:21:22,360 Speaker 1: This is the same family of the sleeping sickness. It's 340 00:21:22,400 --> 00:21:26,560 Speaker 1: it has he has like similarities. Tell me in the 341 00:21:26,600 --> 00:21:29,400 Speaker 1: time that we have left, um, where were you when 342 00:21:29,440 --> 00:21:32,000 Speaker 1: you heard about condos? Where where were you at the 343 00:21:32,040 --> 00:21:37,120 Speaker 1: time that that attack occurred. I was in a plane 344 00:21:37,760 --> 00:21:41,440 Speaker 1: and actually I was just lending and I was coming 345 00:21:41,480 --> 00:21:46,760 Speaker 1: back from from South Sudan and and basically I got 346 00:21:46,760 --> 00:21:49,239 Speaker 1: the message through email because people couldn't reach to me. 347 00:21:49,280 --> 00:21:51,399 Speaker 1: I wasn't a plane and all that. So, but I've 348 00:21:51,440 --> 00:21:54,679 Speaker 1: heard that our hospital has been attacked and wouldn't know 349 00:21:54,840 --> 00:22:02,040 Speaker 1: that the number of casualty, And so I think for 350 00:22:02,040 --> 00:22:04,240 Speaker 1: for the audience, I think we we we have to 351 00:22:04,280 --> 00:22:11,720 Speaker 1: be clear that conduced was a tragic, unprecedented event for 352 00:22:12,600 --> 00:22:17,760 Speaker 1: MSF Doctors Without Borders organization in forty four years of existence. 353 00:22:18,640 --> 00:22:22,840 Speaker 1: We never had such a big loss in terms of 354 00:22:22,880 --> 00:22:30,960 Speaker 1: patient and staff in one attack. Conduce for me, and 355 00:22:31,000 --> 00:22:32,840 Speaker 1: I think for many of my colleague there's going to 356 00:22:32,880 --> 00:22:35,680 Speaker 1: be a pre CONDUCD in the past Conduce. And I 357 00:22:35,800 --> 00:22:39,359 Speaker 1: know Conduced fairly well because I was there during the 358 00:22:39,359 --> 00:22:44,440 Speaker 1: winter of twenty fifteen, actually visited our project, and because 359 00:22:44,600 --> 00:22:46,800 Speaker 1: there was some weather issue, I end up staying there 360 00:22:46,840 --> 00:22:50,560 Speaker 1: for almost ten days, so I end up rounding patient, 361 00:22:51,200 --> 00:22:56,160 Speaker 1: getting to know our staff, and I remember distinctly about Conduced, 362 00:22:57,080 --> 00:23:02,960 Speaker 1: how impressed I was and and how I thought Conduced 363 00:23:03,000 --> 00:23:06,040 Speaker 1: was so special, And I remember my words when I 364 00:23:06,080 --> 00:23:10,480 Speaker 1: came back, I said, Conduced is the jam of the 365 00:23:10,520 --> 00:23:18,560 Speaker 1: northeast Afghanistan. We have managed to create a medical, humanitarian 366 00:23:18,680 --> 00:23:24,080 Speaker 1: neutral space where everybody from both sides I think that 367 00:23:24,160 --> 00:23:27,000 Speaker 1: it's safe to come and be cared for, and they 368 00:23:27,080 --> 00:23:29,399 Speaker 1: know they're going to get high level of care. And 369 00:23:29,480 --> 00:23:33,080 Speaker 1: both sides were coming, Yes, both side were coming. And 370 00:23:33,160 --> 00:23:37,160 Speaker 1: it was not this little bush hospital. It was existing 371 00:23:37,200 --> 00:23:41,399 Speaker 1: since twenty eleven. We had a hundred beds. We scale 372 00:23:41,440 --> 00:23:43,600 Speaker 1: up our r c U to AID beds. It was 373 00:23:44,200 --> 00:23:50,119 Speaker 1: better occupancive more than most of the time and people 374 00:23:50,160 --> 00:23:53,520 Speaker 1: were walking days to come and be care in our 375 00:23:53,640 --> 00:23:56,680 Speaker 1: trauma center because they knew it was one of the 376 00:23:56,800 --> 00:24:01,080 Speaker 1: good place to be cared for. And so I remember 377 00:24:01,160 --> 00:24:06,159 Speaker 1: because it was so striking. We managed to create this 378 00:24:06,359 --> 00:24:10,520 Speaker 1: atmosphere where we have the surgeon, the intensive is the physio, 379 00:24:10,560 --> 00:24:15,239 Speaker 1: third prisonmental health together every day doing rounds together and 380 00:24:15,359 --> 00:24:19,120 Speaker 1: rounding the hundred patients together. We managed to do that. 381 00:24:19,800 --> 00:24:24,080 Speaker 1: We had as well um digital X ray. I remember 382 00:24:24,119 --> 00:24:26,320 Speaker 1: in the morning we will review all the admission of 383 00:24:26,359 --> 00:24:32,080 Speaker 1: the night before. It was really an impressive center. And 384 00:24:32,119 --> 00:24:33,879 Speaker 1: for some reason, I remember that I thought it was 385 00:24:33,920 --> 00:24:35,880 Speaker 1: so special that I just said, I don't know how 386 00:24:35,880 --> 00:24:38,480 Speaker 1: long it's gonna last. And I've been with him SF 387 00:24:38,520 --> 00:24:41,280 Speaker 1: almost twenty years now and I've seen so many trauma 388 00:24:41,320 --> 00:24:44,120 Speaker 1: center that one was special. Who we built the facility, 389 00:24:44,200 --> 00:24:46,879 Speaker 1: someone had built it, a new occupied it or msfort 390 00:24:46,880 --> 00:24:48,879 Speaker 1: built build it, and it just built it. There was 391 00:24:48,920 --> 00:24:50,919 Speaker 1: only like a sort of a central building. But we 392 00:24:50,960 --> 00:24:53,159 Speaker 1: had to read the roof and everything and make it 393 00:24:53,400 --> 00:24:57,959 Speaker 1: a hospital basically. Ah And that's what we did. In 394 00:24:58,080 --> 00:25:03,000 Speaker 1: twenty eleven, after few years of negotiation with both parties 395 00:25:03,320 --> 00:25:07,440 Speaker 1: and the local authorities, the Afghans and the Americans back 396 00:25:07,480 --> 00:25:10,199 Speaker 1: there was the two tribes there exactly, and when you 397 00:25:10,200 --> 00:25:12,919 Speaker 1: would have these people come to the facility both sides, 398 00:25:12,920 --> 00:25:17,160 Speaker 1: as you say, would you separate them? It's a different necessarily, 399 00:25:17,240 --> 00:25:19,680 Speaker 1: And that's interesting. That's interesting you asked this question because 400 00:25:19,720 --> 00:25:21,560 Speaker 1: I asked the same question when I went there, because 401 00:25:21,560 --> 00:25:23,760 Speaker 1: I thought it was so pick elier. And now now 402 00:25:23,800 --> 00:25:27,360 Speaker 1: people were patients. Yeah, people were patient, and that's what 403 00:25:27,440 --> 00:25:32,040 Speaker 1: we keep saying. You know, a combatant is a patient. Now, 404 00:25:32,840 --> 00:25:35,639 Speaker 1: how many staff members were in the building at the 405 00:25:35,680 --> 00:25:39,080 Speaker 1: time of the attack, well, about a hundred, and how 406 00:25:39,080 --> 00:25:44,240 Speaker 1: many survived, Well, we we lost fourteen them, so fourteen died. 407 00:25:45,160 --> 00:25:47,760 Speaker 1: And how many of the patients died? And the roughly 408 00:25:47,760 --> 00:25:50,640 Speaker 1: when a hundred patients? We we we we we had 409 00:25:51,320 --> 00:25:54,320 Speaker 1: we had forty two. So that's the math of forty 410 00:25:54,359 --> 00:26:03,400 Speaker 1: two minus fourteen. So that's basically it. There have obviously 411 00:26:03,480 --> 00:26:07,280 Speaker 1: been discussions and they have been calls for an independent 412 00:26:07,320 --> 00:26:12,120 Speaker 1: investigation as to what happened. And what is your view 413 00:26:12,160 --> 00:26:14,720 Speaker 1: on that now and what do you think is likely 414 00:26:14,760 --> 00:26:18,520 Speaker 1: to happen or not happen. Our take on this is 415 00:26:19,760 --> 00:26:24,399 Speaker 1: that I think it's difficult to be the prepetors and 416 00:26:24,440 --> 00:26:27,520 Speaker 1: the judge at the same time and being completely impartial 417 00:26:28,840 --> 00:26:34,760 Speaker 1: about about the findings. We don't have access to the investigation, 418 00:26:35,280 --> 00:26:39,840 Speaker 1: the American investigation. We have access to the briefing that 419 00:26:39,840 --> 00:26:44,480 Speaker 1: that got released a few thousand words of a three report, 420 00:26:45,359 --> 00:26:48,639 Speaker 1: and we have still a lot of questions. And basically 421 00:26:49,560 --> 00:26:52,240 Speaker 1: what I want to know is what has led to 422 00:26:52,320 --> 00:26:55,440 Speaker 1: that and making sure that history will not repeat itself. 423 00:26:56,240 --> 00:27:00,480 Speaker 1: And what I'd like to compare to it's to medical error. 424 00:27:01,480 --> 00:27:06,399 Speaker 1: I'm a physician. Medical errors happened in my hospital, and 425 00:27:06,440 --> 00:27:09,159 Speaker 1: we all know that the party is involved. Never do 426 00:27:09,280 --> 00:27:13,080 Speaker 1: the investigation, and the goal of this is to make 427 00:27:13,080 --> 00:27:18,159 Speaker 1: sure that will do and create change that will ensure 428 00:27:18,200 --> 00:27:20,560 Speaker 1: that will not repeat the same type of mistake. And 429 00:27:20,640 --> 00:27:25,000 Speaker 1: you want the United States military to do the mortality 430 00:27:25,040 --> 00:27:28,320 Speaker 1: and morbidity study on this, and they're not going to. No, 431 00:27:28,440 --> 00:27:32,560 Speaker 1: they've done the investigation, but it's investigation. I would say, 432 00:27:32,600 --> 00:27:34,919 Speaker 1: with respect to the procedure and all that it's not 433 00:27:35,040 --> 00:27:40,399 Speaker 1: against international humanitary and law, but we operate in those 434 00:27:40,640 --> 00:27:46,560 Speaker 1: very difficult environment because as a medical humanity and organization 435 00:27:47,640 --> 00:27:51,879 Speaker 1: we are under the assumption that the international humanity and 436 00:27:51,960 --> 00:27:55,320 Speaker 1: law are respected. What does it mean? It means that 437 00:27:55,840 --> 00:28:02,000 Speaker 1: healthcare access is protected and of guarded in war zones, 438 00:28:02,440 --> 00:28:05,800 Speaker 1: and it means that population can come to the hospital, 439 00:28:06,080 --> 00:28:09,119 Speaker 1: but once they are in a hospital, we don't attack 440 00:28:09,160 --> 00:28:11,800 Speaker 1: a hospital. We don't attack patient. We don't like that 441 00:28:11,920 --> 00:28:16,760 Speaker 1: care take care. We don't attack healthcare worker. And I 442 00:28:16,800 --> 00:28:19,919 Speaker 1: do believe that when you struggle for your life in 443 00:28:19,960 --> 00:28:24,160 Speaker 1: the I see you, you should not have to say 444 00:28:24,600 --> 00:28:27,040 Speaker 1: that you might get a bomb on your head. And 445 00:28:27,080 --> 00:28:29,800 Speaker 1: I think that we have that shared humanity. I think 446 00:28:29,800 --> 00:28:32,880 Speaker 1: everybody can understand that if you bring you six month 447 00:28:32,920 --> 00:28:37,479 Speaker 1: old child in and why you because it's sick, You 448 00:28:37,520 --> 00:28:39,600 Speaker 1: don't want to have to care to just say am 449 00:28:39,640 --> 00:28:42,760 Speaker 1: I going to get a bomb in my head? It's 450 00:28:42,880 --> 00:28:47,040 Speaker 1: it's just basic thing. What is the current position of 451 00:28:47,080 --> 00:28:49,440 Speaker 1: the United States government as to what happened? The date 452 00:28:49,480 --> 00:28:52,600 Speaker 1: of the attack was winning again October thre so it 453 00:28:52,680 --> 00:28:55,280 Speaker 1: was not that long ago. And in the ensuing weeks, 454 00:28:55,320 --> 00:28:57,840 Speaker 1: did they not say that they suspected that there were 455 00:28:57,920 --> 00:29:00,440 Speaker 1: terrorists inside that group or was it did they say 456 00:29:00,440 --> 00:29:03,200 Speaker 1: it's completely an accident, or did they admit that they 457 00:29:03,240 --> 00:29:07,520 Speaker 1: deliberately attack that facility because there were targets inside that building. No, 458 00:29:07,720 --> 00:29:11,200 Speaker 1: the investigation is saying that there were errors errors at 459 00:29:11,240 --> 00:29:17,240 Speaker 1: different level human level, technical level, procedural level. And we 460 00:29:17,520 --> 00:29:21,160 Speaker 1: hear that we do grant the fact that the US 461 00:29:21,200 --> 00:29:24,720 Speaker 1: a stick and responsibility for what happened. And I think 462 00:29:24,760 --> 00:29:26,719 Speaker 1: this is something that we have to acknowledge as an 463 00:29:26,720 --> 00:29:29,240 Speaker 1: august because you have to understand that we're very upset 464 00:29:29,680 --> 00:29:32,560 Speaker 1: and and and it's it's one thing in addition to 465 00:29:32,680 --> 00:29:37,160 Speaker 1: our morning. We are upset and we have anger. That 466 00:29:37,360 --> 00:29:40,280 Speaker 1: being said is I just want to make sure that 467 00:29:40,640 --> 00:29:43,600 Speaker 1: it won't happen again. So how can I make sure 468 00:29:43,640 --> 00:29:46,200 Speaker 1: of that? The government indicated that they're willing to work 469 00:29:46,240 --> 00:29:50,320 Speaker 1: with you established productcols that it won't happen again. So 470 00:29:50,600 --> 00:29:53,000 Speaker 1: this is this is what we are right now into 471 00:29:53,680 --> 00:29:57,800 Speaker 1: into a dialogue dialogue with them. Does it proceeding to 472 00:29:57,880 --> 00:30:02,440 Speaker 1: your satisfaction? A think we had our moment, this moment 473 00:30:02,480 --> 00:30:05,080 Speaker 1: and I think right after the end, and again I 474 00:30:05,120 --> 00:30:07,920 Speaker 1: think there was a lot of emotion in that. But 475 00:30:08,000 --> 00:30:11,160 Speaker 1: I think now we are re establishing good channel of 476 00:30:11,200 --> 00:30:14,400 Speaker 1: communication towards the status of the facility and conduce now 477 00:30:17,680 --> 00:30:22,000 Speaker 1: it's reopen or is this smashed the pieces? Well, the 478 00:30:22,080 --> 00:30:27,000 Speaker 1: thing is it was a really precise attack and so 479 00:30:27,040 --> 00:30:30,640 Speaker 1: it's the main building. It's been attacked, and so that building, 480 00:30:30,920 --> 00:30:33,600 Speaker 1: I always say it's been burned to the bone. And 481 00:30:33,680 --> 00:30:36,120 Speaker 1: I'm saying that because I've seen it with my eyes. 482 00:30:36,160 --> 00:30:39,200 Speaker 1: I've seen it before in February and March twenty fift 483 00:30:40,040 --> 00:30:43,880 Speaker 1: and I've seen it again when I went for the 484 00:30:43,920 --> 00:30:50,840 Speaker 1: commoration day forty days after the attack, and I went 485 00:30:50,880 --> 00:30:54,760 Speaker 1: through a lot of difficult things since I'm my position, 486 00:30:55,240 --> 00:30:57,040 Speaker 1: but I think it was one of the toughest one 487 00:30:58,280 --> 00:31:02,560 Speaker 1: because many of our staff I've survived, but they've been injured. 488 00:31:03,520 --> 00:31:08,120 Speaker 1: And when I was there, I met with all our 489 00:31:08,200 --> 00:31:11,000 Speaker 1: injured staff, and I met as well with all the 490 00:31:11,040 --> 00:31:14,360 Speaker 1: families of our staff we have died, and I sat 491 00:31:14,440 --> 00:31:18,160 Speaker 1: and I listened to them, and I would always always 492 00:31:18,240 --> 00:31:23,760 Speaker 1: remember one of my staff, one of our emergency inners, 493 00:31:24,600 --> 00:31:28,240 Speaker 1: who got one of his arm amputated during the attack, 494 00:31:29,080 --> 00:31:33,520 Speaker 1: just look at me and just said, you have told 495 00:31:33,600 --> 00:31:39,240 Speaker 1: us over and over again that conduced from my center 496 00:31:40,120 --> 00:31:45,360 Speaker 1: as a safe place. We believed you. And then he 497 00:31:45,440 --> 00:31:48,760 Speaker 1: looked at me. He wiped tears on his right cheeks 498 00:31:48,760 --> 00:31:51,240 Speaker 1: with his right arm, and he just said, did you 499 00:31:51,280 --> 00:31:58,240 Speaker 1: know that we will get balm? And I looked at him, 500 00:31:58,280 --> 00:32:00,920 Speaker 1: and I just said, you have some right to ask 501 00:32:00,960 --> 00:32:05,040 Speaker 1: the question, and the only answer I can tell you is, 502 00:32:06,520 --> 00:32:10,400 Speaker 1: until October three, I thought that conduced from a center 503 00:32:10,760 --> 00:32:16,160 Speaker 1: was a safe place. And what we are fighting today 504 00:32:16,440 --> 00:32:22,360 Speaker 1: we're fighting for that. We're fighting two safeguard and maintain 505 00:32:23,040 --> 00:32:27,560 Speaker 1: that medical humanitarian neutral space in war zones and for 506 00:32:27,760 --> 00:32:33,480 Speaker 1: m SF. The stakes are so high because that's some 507 00:32:33,680 --> 00:32:37,360 Speaker 1: of our core ay that we gave, but as well 508 00:32:37,480 --> 00:32:44,920 Speaker 1: what we realize nowadays in conflict area like Yemen, Syria, 509 00:32:45,720 --> 00:32:51,280 Speaker 1: South Sudan, Central African Republic, there's very few ends on actors, 510 00:32:53,080 --> 00:32:55,800 Speaker 1: and if we change the rule of the game of 511 00:32:55,920 --> 00:33:00,480 Speaker 1: protecting neutral medical space, it's going to be total chaos. 512 00:33:01,320 --> 00:33:04,040 Speaker 1: I really do think that it's part of our shared 513 00:33:04,160 --> 00:33:11,160 Speaker 1: humanity to safeguard that. I still believe that wars rules 514 00:33:12,440 --> 00:33:18,360 Speaker 1: in medicine. San Frontier won the Nobel Peace Prize. John Orbinski, 515 00:33:18,640 --> 00:33:21,920 Speaker 1: MSF's president at the time, said the following in his 516 00:33:22,080 --> 00:33:28,520 Speaker 1: acceptance speech. Silence has long been confused with neutrality and 517 00:33:28,600 --> 00:33:32,560 Speaker 1: has been presented as a necessary condition for humanitarian action. 518 00:33:33,240 --> 00:33:37,880 Speaker 1: From its beginning. MSF was created in opposition to this assumption. 519 00:33:38,480 --> 00:33:41,200 Speaker 1: We are not sure that words can always save lives, 520 00:33:41,600 --> 00:33:47,880 Speaker 1: but we know that silence can certainly kill. This is 521 00:33:47,920 --> 00:34:00,360 Speaker 1: Alec Baldwin and you're listening to here's the Thing two.