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When investigators 19 00:01:17,720 --> 00:01:20,880 Speaker 1: asked why they did it, they both had the same answer. 20 00:01:21,280 --> 00:01:29,319 Speaker 1: Slender Man, a twelve year old girl lured into a 21 00:01:29,400 --> 00:01:36,760 Speaker 1: densely wooded area, then stabbed nineteen times, told don't move 22 00:01:36,800 --> 00:01:41,240 Speaker 1: too much, you'll die more quickly and be quiet, and 23 00:01:41,440 --> 00:01:47,639 Speaker 1: left there to bleed out dead a twelve year old girl. 24 00:01:48,920 --> 00:01:51,600 Speaker 1: I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Thank you for 25 00:01:51,680 --> 00:01:58,040 Speaker 1: being with us. Who Who was the perpetrator who stabbed 26 00:01:58,080 --> 00:02:03,240 Speaker 1: a little girl nine times, coming less than one millimeter 27 00:02:03,600 --> 00:02:08,560 Speaker 1: from her heart, her blood draining out of her body? 28 00:02:08,960 --> 00:02:14,440 Speaker 1: Whose was the last face she saw that night? Her 29 00:02:14,480 --> 00:02:19,399 Speaker 1: two twelve year old friends that suit her two twelve 30 00:02:19,480 --> 00:02:25,679 Speaker 1: year old little friend girls from school, lure her to 31 00:02:26,040 --> 00:02:31,400 Speaker 1: spend the night party, then lure her into densely wooded 32 00:02:31,840 --> 00:02:35,000 Speaker 1: area at night, sneaking out of the house so the 33 00:02:35,080 --> 00:02:41,400 Speaker 1: parents can't hear, but they know they were carrying a knife. 34 00:02:43,840 --> 00:02:47,320 Speaker 1: We have learned that a plea negotiation has gone down 35 00:02:47,360 --> 00:02:51,680 Speaker 1: and a jury has agreed that one of the two 36 00:02:51,760 --> 00:02:56,760 Speaker 1: twelve year old girls is going to do time in 37 00:02:56,760 --> 00:03:04,040 Speaker 1: a mental institution on attempted second degree homicide. The other 38 00:03:04,200 --> 00:03:10,160 Speaker 1: who wielded the knife still has not been resolved. What happened? 39 00:03:10,680 --> 00:03:16,720 Speaker 1: Joining me, Mary Hopkins, Crime Stories contributing investigative reporter, Mary, 40 00:03:16,760 --> 00:03:20,240 Speaker 1: thank you for being with us. Joining me is Cheryl McCollum, 41 00:03:20,280 --> 00:03:24,600 Speaker 1: director of the Cold Case Institute, Dr Bethany Marshall, psychoanalyst 42 00:03:24,680 --> 00:03:28,800 Speaker 1: out of l A. And also with me Ashley Wilcot, 43 00:03:29,840 --> 00:03:36,640 Speaker 1: child advocate to Mary Hopkins, how does a sci fi character, 44 00:03:37,160 --> 00:03:42,720 Speaker 1: a creepy, tall, spidery dude, deathly pale, kind of a 45 00:03:42,760 --> 00:03:47,400 Speaker 1: blur for a face dressed in a black suit, named Slenderman, 46 00:03:47,840 --> 00:03:51,400 Speaker 1: what does he have to do with this attack? Well, Nancy, 47 00:03:51,440 --> 00:03:54,800 Speaker 1: Slenderman said, he's a fictional character. He was born on 48 00:03:54,840 --> 00:03:58,200 Speaker 1: the internet in a photoshop challenge back in two thousand nine, 49 00:03:58,680 --> 00:04:02,640 Speaker 1: and many children were so enamored with him. Some thought 50 00:04:02,680 --> 00:04:06,000 Speaker 1: he was a ruthless killer, others thought he was like 51 00:04:06,040 --> 00:04:09,120 Speaker 1: a guardian angel. And for the girls involved in this 52 00:04:09,320 --> 00:04:13,240 Speaker 1: horrific crime, they believed that if they did not kill 53 00:04:13,520 --> 00:04:17,680 Speaker 1: their best friend, slender Man was going to harm their families. 54 00:04:18,320 --> 00:04:21,440 Speaker 1: And that's what led to this. They set it up, 55 00:04:21,520 --> 00:04:24,600 Speaker 1: as you said. They they invited her over for a sleepover, 56 00:04:24,680 --> 00:04:26,679 Speaker 1: They went into the woods to play hide and seek, 57 00:04:27,160 --> 00:04:30,000 Speaker 1: and then they stamped her nineteen times. All these other 58 00:04:30,080 --> 00:04:34,279 Speaker 1: slender Man you know, they think Dr Bethany Marshall, as 59 00:04:34,320 --> 00:04:37,280 Speaker 1: the Lord goes that they can then go live with 60 00:04:37,360 --> 00:04:43,120 Speaker 1: slender Man in his mansion. And these girls apparently believed 61 00:04:43,279 --> 00:04:45,800 Speaker 1: that they would go after they kill someone, that's the 62 00:04:45,880 --> 00:04:48,200 Speaker 1: price you pay to get to go live with slender Man. 63 00:04:48,839 --> 00:04:53,040 Speaker 1: They believe that Slenderman lived in the Nicolette National Forest 64 00:04:53,400 --> 00:04:56,560 Speaker 1: there in Wisconsin. I mean, they're out in this beautiful 65 00:04:56,680 --> 00:04:59,200 Speaker 1: rural area where you think there's no crime at all, 66 00:05:00,040 --> 00:05:03,200 Speaker 1: and then these two girls try to murder their twelve 67 00:05:03,240 --> 00:05:06,120 Speaker 1: year old little quote best friend. It's so hard to 68 00:05:06,200 --> 00:05:09,880 Speaker 1: unwind the motivations in a case like this because the 69 00:05:09,920 --> 00:05:13,960 Speaker 1: reporters saying they believed that this was all because of 70 00:05:14,000 --> 00:05:17,320 Speaker 1: slender Man. I mean, is it really or is it 71 00:05:17,400 --> 00:05:20,960 Speaker 1: for mental health? Or is it that these girls lived 72 00:05:20,960 --> 00:05:25,200 Speaker 1: more in fantasy rather than reality. So there's there's saying 73 00:05:25,400 --> 00:05:28,720 Speaker 1: neurotics build castles in the sky, psychotics live in them. 74 00:05:28,920 --> 00:05:32,560 Speaker 1: You know, there's a difference between twelve year olds who 75 00:05:32,600 --> 00:05:36,960 Speaker 1: are you know, fantasizing about some slender Man character and 76 00:05:37,160 --> 00:05:40,559 Speaker 1: twelve year old who believe that slender Man is living 77 00:05:40,600 --> 00:05:42,320 Speaker 1: in the woods and they're going to go live with 78 00:05:42,360 --> 00:05:45,680 Speaker 1: him if they kill somebody. I mean, I'm really concerned 79 00:05:45,720 --> 00:05:50,840 Speaker 1: about just how much these two twelve year olds were 80 00:05:50,960 --> 00:05:55,440 Speaker 1: engaged in a whole fantasy world about slender Man. And also, 81 00:05:56,040 --> 00:05:59,400 Speaker 1: you know, it takes slender Man out of it. What 82 00:05:59,480 --> 00:06:03,200 Speaker 1: was going on in these girls minds? I mean, these 83 00:06:03,240 --> 00:06:07,080 Speaker 1: are twelve year olds who are homicidal. What's going on 84 00:06:07,120 --> 00:06:09,600 Speaker 1: in their families, what's going on in their school life? 85 00:06:10,000 --> 00:06:12,360 Speaker 1: I mean, what's going on in terms of their mental health? 86 00:06:12,960 --> 00:06:18,520 Speaker 1: These girls wanted to kill their best friend. I don't 87 00:06:18,560 --> 00:06:26,000 Speaker 1: think slender Man. I think envy. I think that for 88 00:06:26,080 --> 00:06:29,039 Speaker 1: some reason, they didn't like this little twelve year old. 89 00:06:29,640 --> 00:06:34,400 Speaker 1: Maybe she was more beautiful than them, maybe she had um, 90 00:06:34,440 --> 00:06:37,760 Speaker 1: she was smarter than them, maybe she was more admired 91 00:06:37,800 --> 00:06:40,200 Speaker 1: by her schoolmates. Or on the other hand, maybe she 92 00:06:40,279 --> 00:06:43,719 Speaker 1: was more fragile and vulnerable so they targeted her. But 93 00:06:43,839 --> 00:06:45,599 Speaker 1: I think we should take slender Man out of it 94 00:06:45,680 --> 00:06:48,880 Speaker 1: and think about what all the other motivations for homicide 95 00:06:48,920 --> 00:06:53,200 Speaker 1: could be. Take a listen to this caller on Big 96 00:06:53,240 --> 00:06:59,520 Speaker 1: Bend at the dead End just south of Riveraree six 97 00:06:59,600 --> 00:07:01,640 Speaker 1: four six nine. He came up on a twelve real 98 00:07:01,800 --> 00:07:04,800 Speaker 1: email two peers of being stabbed. She appears to be 99 00:07:04,839 --> 00:07:09,960 Speaker 1: with stab stabbed. Okay, sorry, still there, yes, hi, sir, 100 00:07:10,320 --> 00:07:12,720 Speaker 1: so is are you with this tubbet female? Yea. She 101 00:07:12,800 --> 00:07:16,440 Speaker 1: says she's having trouble breathing. She said she was stabbed 102 00:07:16,520 --> 00:07:20,920 Speaker 1: multiple times. They have multiple times. Okay, sir, are you 103 00:07:20,960 --> 00:07:24,440 Speaker 1: with her right now? Is she awake? She's awake. Is 104 00:07:24,440 --> 00:07:30,640 Speaker 1: she breathing? She said she can take shallow breath. She's alert. Okay, 105 00:07:30,680 --> 00:07:33,760 Speaker 1: stay with her. We're studying the police department. Don't hang up, Okay, 106 00:07:34,200 --> 00:07:38,680 Speaker 1: hold on, don't hang up. Okay, Okay, Well that's just 107 00:07:38,720 --> 00:07:43,000 Speaker 1: mis setting, officer. Is there any assailant around? I didn't 108 00:07:43,040 --> 00:07:50,600 Speaker 1: even look. I don't see anybody. It's okay, stay stay 109 00:07:50,680 --> 00:07:52,480 Speaker 1: right with her, sir. Is she on the ground or 110 00:07:52,560 --> 00:07:55,680 Speaker 1: she standing up? No, she's laying on the grass. Laying 111 00:07:55,720 --> 00:07:57,560 Speaker 1: on the grass. Stay right with her. Just let me 112 00:07:57,560 --> 00:08:00,960 Speaker 1: know if she is remaining conscious or not. Okay, okay. 113 00:08:02,000 --> 00:08:05,440 Speaker 1: Is there any bleeding going on? Her clothing has got 114 00:08:05,440 --> 00:08:10,240 Speaker 1: blood on it. Sheryl McCollum, look at the the brutality 115 00:08:10,280 --> 00:08:13,480 Speaker 1: of the attack on this little girl. If a bicyclist 116 00:08:13,520 --> 00:08:16,440 Speaker 1: hadn't come along and found her, she'd be dead right now, 117 00:08:16,680 --> 00:08:18,960 Speaker 1: no question. That last bab wound was so close to 118 00:08:19,040 --> 00:08:22,520 Speaker 1: her heart. Nancy, it was just a millimeter away. But 119 00:08:22,600 --> 00:08:25,880 Speaker 1: again I agree with Dr Bessany's the crime scene itself 120 00:08:25,920 --> 00:08:28,720 Speaker 1: tells you a lot. So they coaxed her over. They 121 00:08:28,760 --> 00:08:31,600 Speaker 1: take her in the woods, so again it's not in 122 00:08:31,640 --> 00:08:34,120 Speaker 1: the house, it's not near where other people are gonna be. 123 00:08:34,640 --> 00:08:37,000 Speaker 1: And they thought she was dead when they left her. 124 00:08:37,040 --> 00:08:39,839 Speaker 1: They thought that was it and she was done. If 125 00:08:39,840 --> 00:08:42,400 Speaker 1: this is where my investigation, I wouldn't want to start 126 00:08:42,400 --> 00:08:45,880 Speaker 1: with whose idea was at first? Forget slender Man. Of 127 00:08:45,960 --> 00:08:49,640 Speaker 1: those two perpetrators, it was somebody's idea first, and you 128 00:08:49,720 --> 00:08:52,480 Speaker 1: work back which from her. Well, we know that one 129 00:08:52,520 --> 00:08:55,760 Speaker 1: of the girls did the stabbing and the other I 130 00:08:55,800 --> 00:08:59,280 Speaker 1: guess to say it legally and legally would be aided 131 00:08:59,280 --> 00:09:02,720 Speaker 1: and embedded. But this is the thing, isn't it true? 132 00:09:02,760 --> 00:09:08,800 Speaker 1: Mary Hopkins? They planned this for months, very clearly. There 133 00:09:08,840 --> 00:09:12,439 Speaker 1: were notes at school, there were phone calls, there were 134 00:09:13,080 --> 00:09:18,920 Speaker 1: massive searches online. They lived online looking at Slenderman lore. 135 00:09:19,400 --> 00:09:22,280 Speaker 1: I mean, how nobody noticed And that was one of 136 00:09:22,280 --> 00:09:24,640 Speaker 1: those things that came up in the in the courtroom 137 00:09:24,679 --> 00:09:26,360 Speaker 1: when the girls were there. It's like, how did the 138 00:09:26,480 --> 00:09:28,599 Speaker 1: parents not How are they not aware of what was 139 00:09:28,640 --> 00:09:31,880 Speaker 1: going on? They knew what they were doing. They they 140 00:09:31,920 --> 00:09:34,520 Speaker 1: had a mission. They were going to kill their friends. 141 00:09:34,800 --> 00:09:37,760 Speaker 1: It was all for thunder Man. And then even in court, 142 00:09:38,200 --> 00:09:41,320 Speaker 1: Morgan Geyser told the judge that well, she ended up 143 00:09:41,320 --> 00:09:43,760 Speaker 1: having to stab her because her friend couldn't do it. 144 00:09:43,840 --> 00:09:45,440 Speaker 1: So she said, so I did it, and it was 145 00:09:45,480 --> 00:09:48,720 Speaker 1: so a matter of fact, it was so like it 146 00:09:48,800 --> 00:09:50,480 Speaker 1: was just what I had to do. So I did it. 147 00:09:50,640 --> 00:09:53,840 Speaker 1: You know, it's incredible to me that it's gone down 148 00:09:53,880 --> 00:09:58,440 Speaker 1: this way. Take a listen to what the girls say. 149 00:09:58,480 --> 00:10:04,680 Speaker 1: We have obtained actual lease interrogation sound listen Flin flinder 150 00:10:04,760 --> 00:10:09,800 Speaker 1: Man flender Man, and he as some tendrils that are 151 00:10:09,960 --> 00:10:15,600 Speaker 1: very sharp. You mean your dreams or where you seas? Oh, 152 00:10:15,679 --> 00:10:18,560 Speaker 1: I didn't even dream number So did you think that 153 00:10:18,600 --> 00:10:22,160 Speaker 1: you actually had to kill somebody to do it? He like, 154 00:10:22,520 --> 00:10:25,760 Speaker 1: for real? So when you guys were walking you thought 155 00:10:25,760 --> 00:10:33,959 Speaker 1: you saw slender profession was after Gonna stubbed her son? 156 00:10:33,960 --> 00:10:36,840 Speaker 1: How did you get to night from Anissa? She sort 157 00:10:36,880 --> 00:10:41,600 Speaker 1: of open in my innders and then I didn't know 158 00:10:41,679 --> 00:10:43,800 Speaker 1: what I did. It was just sort of just happened. 159 00:10:48,040 --> 00:10:50,880 Speaker 1: It didn't feel like anything, It was like air. So 160 00:10:50,960 --> 00:10:52,720 Speaker 1: he said that we were going to go for watching 161 00:10:54,040 --> 00:10:58,040 Speaker 1: people who trust you become very vullable and a whisport 162 00:10:58,080 --> 00:11:00,840 Speaker 1: of sad. You just heard the girls, the twelve year 163 00:11:00,920 --> 00:11:04,240 Speaker 1: old girls in their police interrogation, trying to explain who 164 00:11:04,280 --> 00:11:08,400 Speaker 1: Slenderman is. But listen to the parents, I mean, you know, 165 00:11:09,200 --> 00:11:12,960 Speaker 1: out to you, Cheryl. I got freaked out when John 166 00:11:13,000 --> 00:11:16,160 Speaker 1: David was constantly playing Minecraft or is I like to say, 167 00:11:16,160 --> 00:11:19,480 Speaker 1: to irritate him Minecraft her but Minecraft, I might get 168 00:11:19,600 --> 00:11:23,479 Speaker 1: off Minecraft. Now he's playing some other game. And Lucy 169 00:11:23,640 --> 00:11:29,559 Speaker 1: went from cat videos to what are the guinea pig videos? 170 00:11:29,600 --> 00:11:34,160 Speaker 1: Now she's on gymnastic videos. I'm constantly sneaking up on 171 00:11:34,200 --> 00:11:38,079 Speaker 1: them to see what they're watching. Did nobody notice they 172 00:11:38,080 --> 00:11:43,320 Speaker 1: were obsessively looking at Slenderman? Cheryl McCollum. Probably not in needthy. 173 00:11:43,400 --> 00:11:46,720 Speaker 1: The reality is a lot of other games, including Minecraft, 174 00:11:46,960 --> 00:11:50,599 Speaker 1: have a you know, kind of a little ode to Slenderman. 175 00:11:50,720 --> 00:11:53,160 Speaker 1: They have a character based on him as well. So 176 00:11:53,280 --> 00:11:55,520 Speaker 1: a lot of times parents, even though they know he's 177 00:11:55,520 --> 00:11:59,360 Speaker 1: playing Minecraft, they have no idea there's any reference to 178 00:11:59,400 --> 00:12:03,360 Speaker 1: slender Mean. Other parents would not even know who that was. Period. 179 00:12:03,480 --> 00:12:06,520 Speaker 1: Take a listen to what the parents still ABC s 180 00:12:06,640 --> 00:12:09,160 Speaker 1: G M A. Christie. I know that when you when 181 00:12:09,160 --> 00:12:12,320 Speaker 1: you watch the interrogation videos. Both your daughter and the 182 00:12:12,360 --> 00:12:16,560 Speaker 1: other young girls seemed to believe that Slenderman real. That 183 00:12:16,600 --> 00:12:19,959 Speaker 1: there was no difference between fact and fiction for them 184 00:12:20,080 --> 00:12:27,720 Speaker 1: during the interview tapes that we've seen. Um, they thoroughly 185 00:12:27,800 --> 00:12:31,439 Speaker 1: believed that Slenderman was you and they wanted to prove 186 00:12:31,520 --> 00:12:35,240 Speaker 1: that he was real. And and you had no indication 187 00:12:35,320 --> 00:12:38,240 Speaker 1: of this at home, that this was like something that 188 00:12:38,280 --> 00:12:43,440 Speaker 1: she was obsessed with or couldn't stop watching. We've never 189 00:12:43,480 --> 00:12:47,320 Speaker 1: seen her watch videos or read stories or hey, look 190 00:12:47,400 --> 00:12:50,480 Speaker 1: what I found on the Internet or anything. She was 191 00:12:51,760 --> 00:12:55,679 Speaker 1: just typical. She was a typical twelve year old at 192 00:12:55,679 --> 00:12:58,200 Speaker 1: that point. You didn't think she had any to the 193 00:12:58,240 --> 00:13:02,520 Speaker 1: other three children. She didn't show any others signs of 194 00:13:06,320 --> 00:13:10,600 Speaker 1: disbelieves to Dr Bethany, Marshall's psychoanalysts joining me out of 195 00:13:10,800 --> 00:13:15,920 Speaker 1: l A, Dr Bethany, I hope you're sitting down. In fact, 196 00:13:15,960 --> 00:13:18,319 Speaker 1: you better lay down for this one. Take a listen 197 00:13:18,360 --> 00:13:23,040 Speaker 1: as the girls are asked if they are sorry they 198 00:13:23,040 --> 00:13:30,360 Speaker 1: did it. I thought about, marshallly gonna be where you 199 00:13:30,360 --> 00:13:33,520 Speaker 1: didn't graph that you can decide that you don't want 200 00:13:33,559 --> 00:13:38,840 Speaker 1: to feel. It's easier if you decide not to feel 201 00:13:39,920 --> 00:13:46,520 Speaker 1: you know what. To me, it's very clear to Cheryl 202 00:13:46,600 --> 00:13:52,680 Speaker 1: McCullum joining me that these girls planned this. This was 203 00:13:52,760 --> 00:13:57,320 Speaker 1: first charged as attempted murder in the first homicide in 204 00:13:57,360 --> 00:14:01,320 Speaker 1: the first The plea they're taking is to attempt and 205 00:14:01,440 --> 00:14:07,920 Speaker 1: murder second. But this is so orchestrated and planned. There's 206 00:14:08,040 --> 00:14:11,440 Speaker 1: no way that they were mentally ill. They may have 207 00:14:11,640 --> 00:14:18,319 Speaker 1: believed in Slenderman, but they planned this down to the stabbing. 208 00:14:18,600 --> 00:14:22,360 Speaker 1: They planned it. They took great time for months. They 209 00:14:22,400 --> 00:14:26,040 Speaker 1: said no, they said text messages, They met with each other, 210 00:14:26,680 --> 00:14:31,080 Speaker 1: They picked their victim, They invited her over under this 211 00:14:31,200 --> 00:14:33,600 Speaker 1: great you know, blanket of oh we're gonna have to 212 00:14:33,640 --> 00:14:37,280 Speaker 1: spend the night party. Everything they did was could coax 213 00:14:37,360 --> 00:14:43,080 Speaker 1: her over to kill her. So again, law enforcement would 214 00:14:43,080 --> 00:14:45,160 Speaker 1: go back and they would look through how many times 215 00:14:45,200 --> 00:14:48,200 Speaker 1: did they mention slender Man? Was it really about him 216 00:14:48,680 --> 00:14:51,720 Speaker 1: or was it really something they divide? Take a listen, 217 00:14:52,080 --> 00:14:58,040 Speaker 1: everybody to actually hearing one of the attackers, he's twelve 218 00:14:58,120 --> 00:15:03,640 Speaker 1: year old little girls explain how this brutal stabbing nineteen 219 00:15:03,840 --> 00:15:07,400 Speaker 1: stabs on a twelve year old little girl. They're so 220 00:15:07,480 --> 00:15:11,840 Speaker 1: called best friend that's lured into the woods at night, 221 00:15:12,880 --> 00:15:17,600 Speaker 1: stabbed repeatedly and left to bleed out dead. This is 222 00:15:17,640 --> 00:15:23,520 Speaker 1: how they say it went down, because the thing with 223 00:15:23,720 --> 00:15:27,320 Speaker 1: flowers and all that. Okay, I can right here. I 224 00:15:27,480 --> 00:15:34,160 Speaker 1: put her over the lay. She's like now, and then 225 00:15:34,200 --> 00:15:37,400 Speaker 1: I said right and he run her hand. She's like that, 226 00:15:39,120 --> 00:15:41,280 Speaker 1: and then she started complaining that she could breathe going, 227 00:15:41,480 --> 00:15:43,080 Speaker 1: and I got off her because she would make her 228 00:15:43,120 --> 00:15:50,160 Speaker 1: round of noise. Okay, okay, and what happened that? And 229 00:15:50,200 --> 00:15:53,400 Speaker 1: then told morning that's nudding down and then she said 230 00:15:53,600 --> 00:15:57,240 Speaker 1: t her and out at her to Ashley Willcott joining 231 00:15:57,320 --> 00:16:02,600 Speaker 1: us child advocate. They were picking flowers and then suddenly 232 00:16:02,920 --> 00:16:08,280 Speaker 1: she's bleeding out. Nancill think that the public needs to know. 233 00:16:09,600 --> 00:16:14,720 Speaker 1: This means there's so much more to this story. These 234 00:16:15,400 --> 00:16:21,360 Speaker 1: families should have had knowledge of what these two were planning. 235 00:16:21,520 --> 00:16:25,920 Speaker 1: Like you said, there should be supervision of whatever. Kids, 236 00:16:26,080 --> 00:16:31,720 Speaker 1: especially twelve twelve twelve year old grains are scientifically proven 237 00:16:31,840 --> 00:16:35,760 Speaker 1: to not be fully developed. That doesn't happen until young twenties. 238 00:16:36,000 --> 00:16:39,000 Speaker 1: They do not make good decisions. They have to have 239 00:16:39,200 --> 00:16:43,440 Speaker 1: guidance instructure. I do not understand how they could get 240 00:16:43,520 --> 00:16:48,640 Speaker 1: from playing Slenderman or knowing a Slenderman to a deliberate, 241 00:16:49,120 --> 00:16:55,320 Speaker 1: planned out, horrific attack and murder. Potential murder she survived, thankfully, 242 00:16:55,760 --> 00:17:01,360 Speaker 1: potential murder of another, of another teenager. It's beyond comprehension 243 00:17:01,400 --> 00:17:03,560 Speaker 1: to me. I mean, listen to this. Listen to this, 244 00:17:03,680 --> 00:17:07,320 Speaker 1: Dr Bethany. I'm going to reiterate what she said. She 245 00:17:07,520 --> 00:17:10,560 Speaker 1: was picking flowers. I was standing right here. I pushed 246 00:17:10,560 --> 00:17:14,439 Speaker 1: her over. She was like this now, and I sat 247 00:17:14,640 --> 00:17:17,800 Speaker 1: here on her and she started complaining she couldn't breathe. 248 00:17:18,359 --> 00:17:20,160 Speaker 1: So I got up because she was making a lot 249 00:17:20,200 --> 00:17:23,159 Speaker 1: of noise. I told Morgan she wasn't laying down, and 250 00:17:23,200 --> 00:17:26,760 Speaker 1: she said, tackle her and I'll stab her. That is 251 00:17:26,800 --> 00:17:32,800 Speaker 1: what Wire says. Uh. The three involved a Nissa Wire, 252 00:17:33,040 --> 00:17:39,440 Speaker 1: Morgan Geyser, and the little girl the victim in this case, Peyton. 253 00:17:39,960 --> 00:17:43,600 Speaker 1: I mean, this happens out in the middle of Wisconsin, 254 00:17:43,640 --> 00:17:47,360 Speaker 1: where you think that your child is safe. Did you 255 00:17:47,440 --> 00:17:51,360 Speaker 1: hear those words, Bethany. Instead of being upset the little 256 00:17:51,359 --> 00:17:53,840 Speaker 1: girl couldn't couldn't breathe, she says, she was making too 257 00:17:53,920 --> 00:17:56,520 Speaker 1: much noise complaining, so we tackled her so I could 258 00:17:56,520 --> 00:17:59,920 Speaker 1: stabb Nancy. These are the kinds of words we hear 259 00:18:00,359 --> 00:18:03,320 Speaker 1: from male perpetrators. That's what I keep thinking about, Like, 260 00:18:03,359 --> 00:18:06,080 Speaker 1: if these were two boys, I don't want to be sexist, 261 00:18:06,160 --> 00:18:08,760 Speaker 1: but it seems like it would be easier to understand 262 00:18:08,840 --> 00:18:12,120 Speaker 1: because what we see with young men who commit crimes 263 00:18:12,640 --> 00:18:16,720 Speaker 1: is it usually there's like a male ringleader who's very sociopathic, 264 00:18:16,880 --> 00:18:20,159 Speaker 1: and then he recruits younger, weaker males to kind of 265 00:18:20,200 --> 00:18:25,280 Speaker 1: follow his bidding. But the twist here is it's two girls. 266 00:18:25,320 --> 00:18:30,320 Speaker 1: So who was the ringleader? Who was she a sociopath? 267 00:18:30,480 --> 00:18:33,880 Speaker 1: Is there such a thing as a twelve year old sociopath? 268 00:18:34,040 --> 00:18:37,359 Speaker 1: You know, it's such a severe corruption of conscience. I 269 00:18:37,480 --> 00:18:41,160 Speaker 1: keep going back to what I know about young girls 270 00:18:41,160 --> 00:18:44,399 Speaker 1: who commit crimes. You know, in this age range, that 271 00:18:44,720 --> 00:18:47,359 Speaker 1: envy seems to be such a strong motivator. You know 272 00:18:47,560 --> 00:18:52,119 Speaker 1: that they find another girl who's prettier, who's more popular, 273 00:18:52,480 --> 00:18:56,680 Speaker 1: who's who's who's well liked, has, you know, gets better 274 00:18:56,760 --> 00:19:00,159 Speaker 1: grades and all of that, and they can't stand the 275 00:19:00,160 --> 00:19:02,320 Speaker 1: fact that that girl is doing better than them, so 276 00:19:02,359 --> 00:19:05,439 Speaker 1: then they try to deface her in some way or 277 00:19:05,520 --> 00:19:09,720 Speaker 1: disfigure or obliterate her. And I would really kind of 278 00:19:09,720 --> 00:19:12,480 Speaker 1: want to know more about that if I was the 279 00:19:12,560 --> 00:19:15,440 Speaker 1: interviewer in this case to try to figure out what 280 00:19:15,480 --> 00:19:19,760 Speaker 1: were all those negative emotions towards their victim. Take a listen. 281 00:19:20,320 --> 00:19:25,000 Speaker 1: So we told her we're gonna get help, but we 282 00:19:25,160 --> 00:19:32,320 Speaker 1: really weren't. You were gonna rus. I want to pause 283 00:19:32,440 --> 00:19:37,840 Speaker 1: and thank our partner who makes our serious XE program possible. 284 00:19:38,080 --> 00:19:41,040 Speaker 1: Worried about blood pressure, you should be. It's one of 285 00:19:41,040 --> 00:19:44,160 Speaker 1: the keys to heart health and well being. 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Eventually, we 310 00:21:26,080 --> 00:21:30,840 Speaker 1: are reporting from Wisconsin to twelve year old girls lure 311 00:21:30,920 --> 00:21:34,639 Speaker 1: their so called best friend, also twelve, into the woods 312 00:21:34,680 --> 00:21:38,720 Speaker 1: at night, only to stab her nearly twenty times, leaving 313 00:21:38,720 --> 00:21:44,080 Speaker 1: her for dead, and now they are apparently escaping jail time. 314 00:21:44,640 --> 00:21:48,800 Speaker 1: One of the girls has already sealed her fate. She 315 00:21:48,920 --> 00:21:53,560 Speaker 1: has pled guilty but mentally ill, and a jury then 316 00:21:53,600 --> 00:21:58,719 Speaker 1: agreed she is looking at time and a mental hospital. 317 00:21:59,359 --> 00:22:03,520 Speaker 1: She will be released when she's thirty five. Now, this 318 00:22:03,600 --> 00:22:06,639 Speaker 1: is the girl who lures twelve year old Peyton Lawtner 319 00:22:07,480 --> 00:22:12,560 Speaker 1: to her planned death. So what about it, Cheryl McCallum. 320 00:22:12,600 --> 00:22:15,600 Speaker 1: She's going to be walking free at age thirty five 321 00:22:16,119 --> 00:22:19,920 Speaker 1: after this brutal attack, and she's spending the time probably 322 00:22:20,240 --> 00:22:26,520 Speaker 1: let's see online um, doing origami, crocheang, playing ping pong. 323 00:22:27,040 --> 00:22:31,000 Speaker 1: She may even finish high school in college. I don't 324 00:22:31,000 --> 00:22:34,080 Speaker 1: know what I think about this. I can guarantee you this, CHERRYL. McCallum. 325 00:22:34,119 --> 00:22:36,160 Speaker 1: I'm not inviting her home to dinner when she gets 326 00:22:36,200 --> 00:22:38,959 Speaker 1: out today, age thirty five, not at all. And Nancy, 327 00:22:39,240 --> 00:22:41,159 Speaker 1: nothing good is gonna come with this. You know it 328 00:22:41,200 --> 00:22:44,840 Speaker 1: as well as I do. We just celebrated Dr King Holiday, 329 00:22:45,240 --> 00:22:47,240 Speaker 1: Dr King as you know, he would stabbed that his 330 00:22:47,280 --> 00:22:50,800 Speaker 1: assailant went to a mental institution. They don't go there 331 00:22:50,840 --> 00:22:54,719 Speaker 1: to be quote cured. And you know the other problem is, Nancy, 332 00:22:54,920 --> 00:22:57,879 Speaker 1: there's a movie coming out. Oh my stars, Yes, the 333 00:22:58,040 --> 00:23:02,040 Speaker 1: movie coming out. Ho hold on, whoa, whoa wa wait 334 00:23:02,080 --> 00:23:04,399 Speaker 1: wait wait, I'm glad you reminded me of the movie. 335 00:23:05,119 --> 00:23:09,159 Speaker 1: I'm stunned about the movie. And the victim's father has 336 00:23:09,240 --> 00:23:14,600 Speaker 1: launched a petition to stop the movie. But I want 337 00:23:14,640 --> 00:23:19,640 Speaker 1: to complete this part. One of the girls has now 338 00:23:19,840 --> 00:23:23,320 Speaker 1: been allowed to play guilty but mentally ill She's going 339 00:23:23,359 --> 00:23:28,040 Speaker 1: to be in a mental facility for about twenty years. 340 00:23:28,040 --> 00:23:31,240 Speaker 1: That's what it boils down to. The other is set 341 00:23:31,320 --> 00:23:34,720 Speaker 1: for a little more time, but the same the same 342 00:23:34,840 --> 00:23:39,520 Speaker 1: general gist. She'll have guilty but mentally ill. She'll do 343 00:23:39,680 --> 00:23:44,840 Speaker 1: time in a mental facility home, and she'll be out 344 00:23:44,960 --> 00:23:49,600 Speaker 1: when she's about forty. I want to talk about the movie, 345 00:23:49,920 --> 00:23:54,640 Speaker 1: the Slenderman movie that the victims family is totally against. 346 00:23:55,240 --> 00:23:58,199 Speaker 1: To Mary Hopkins, what can you tell me about the 347 00:23:58,240 --> 00:24:01,439 Speaker 1: Slenderman movie? Get ready for this one because Sony Pictures 348 00:24:01,440 --> 00:24:04,400 Speaker 1: has already released the first trailer for Slenderman, and obviously 349 00:24:04,440 --> 00:24:09,320 Speaker 1: it's based on the Internet Boogeyman. It has screaming teenage girls, 350 00:24:09,840 --> 00:24:13,000 Speaker 1: a girl stabbing herself in the face with a scalpel, 351 00:24:13,440 --> 00:24:16,480 Speaker 1: and a voiceover describing how slender Man gets in your 352 00:24:16,520 --> 00:24:20,360 Speaker 1: head like a virus. There's been a petition you mentioned that, 353 00:24:20,440 --> 00:24:24,880 Speaker 1: Bill Wyer and niece's father, he is furious with Sony Pictures. 354 00:24:24,880 --> 00:24:27,639 Speaker 1: He's calling it extremely distasteful of his All it is 355 00:24:27,760 --> 00:24:31,200 Speaker 1: is doing is extending the pain of the three families involved, 356 00:24:31,920 --> 00:24:35,000 Speaker 1: and people are getting on board, but Sony is moving ahead. 357 00:24:35,040 --> 00:24:37,359 Speaker 1: They are ready to release this film in May. The 358 00:24:37,440 --> 00:24:41,600 Speaker 1: slender Man movie is a fictional story about teens who 359 00:24:41,600 --> 00:24:47,280 Speaker 1: are quote infected by Slenderman. And this first trailer for 360 00:24:47,320 --> 00:24:53,280 Speaker 1: the Sony Pictures horror film slender Man is out, and 361 00:24:54,600 --> 00:25:00,680 Speaker 1: it's it's it's shocking, and it's upsetting. It's popularizing a tragedy, 362 00:25:00,720 --> 00:25:05,320 Speaker 1: and it's capitalizing on the near death of a twelve 363 00:25:05,560 --> 00:25:09,240 Speaker 1: year old girl. To you, Dr Bethany Marshall, I don't 364 00:25:09,280 --> 00:25:13,320 Speaker 1: understand a movie about this. I don't either, especially because 365 00:25:13,480 --> 00:25:15,720 Speaker 1: I was watching the movie trailer prior to the show 366 00:25:15,880 --> 00:25:20,400 Speaker 1: and the trailer seems to have a call to action, 367 00:25:21,000 --> 00:25:25,360 Speaker 1: you know, as if they want teenage girls to go 368 00:25:25,440 --> 00:25:28,760 Speaker 1: out and commit crimes. That that's what I think is 369 00:25:28,800 --> 00:25:33,360 Speaker 1: so scary. And we know that young women, girls are 370 00:25:33,520 --> 00:25:37,479 Speaker 1: very impressionable, and so why put out a movie like 371 00:25:37,560 --> 00:25:40,480 Speaker 1: this that could influence young people to commit crime. The 372 00:25:40,560 --> 00:25:44,800 Speaker 1: tagline is, hey, Slenderman gets in your head like a virus. 373 00:25:45,000 --> 00:25:49,000 Speaker 1: And in every trailer, in every picture, you see young 374 00:25:49,080 --> 00:25:55,600 Speaker 1: girls just like the girls in the real case. To you, actually, Wilcott, 375 00:25:55,640 --> 00:25:58,000 Speaker 1: this is so wrong. It'll be over my dead body 376 00:25:58,119 --> 00:26:00,600 Speaker 1: that my children say this. Oh God, it's so wrong. 377 00:26:00,680 --> 00:26:02,920 Speaker 1: It's so wrong, and part of it is. It promotes 378 00:26:03,040 --> 00:26:07,080 Speaker 1: and encourages these behaviors and young girls, like we said, 379 00:26:07,119 --> 00:26:09,399 Speaker 1: twelve year olds, kids who some parents are gonna let 380 00:26:09,400 --> 00:26:12,000 Speaker 1: it see Let them see it, Nancy. Some parents don't 381 00:26:12,280 --> 00:26:15,160 Speaker 1: at all supervise what their kids see, right, so they're 382 00:26:15,160 --> 00:26:18,199 Speaker 1: gonna see it, and they're impressionable. Their their brains are 383 00:26:18,240 --> 00:26:21,040 Speaker 1: at a place, but they don't need to see this 384 00:26:21,320 --> 00:26:26,199 Speaker 1: kind of activity promoted. The trailer is very scary. I 385 00:26:26,200 --> 00:26:29,400 Speaker 1: don't see how this is appropriate for children, and think 386 00:26:29,440 --> 00:26:32,119 Speaker 1: I think there needs to be some real discussions with 387 00:26:32,200 --> 00:26:35,360 Speaker 1: some young people because, as you will know, one parents 388 00:26:35,359 --> 00:26:38,040 Speaker 1: start demanding something to be taken away, they want to 389 00:26:38,040 --> 00:26:40,520 Speaker 1: do it even more. So this movie is gonna have 390 00:26:40,560 --> 00:26:42,639 Speaker 1: a whole lot of people out front unless we just 391 00:26:42,720 --> 00:26:45,199 Speaker 1: have some real honist conversation. But can you tell me 392 00:26:45,280 --> 00:26:49,080 Speaker 1: to Marry Hopkins about an online petition? Yes, Nancy, five 393 00:26:49,080 --> 00:26:51,600 Speaker 1: thousand people have already signed it and the number is growing. 394 00:26:52,000 --> 00:26:54,920 Speaker 1: Even the accused parents are saying the same thing, this 395 00:26:55,000 --> 00:26:57,879 Speaker 1: is horrific. They don't they don't want this movie to 396 00:26:57,920 --> 00:27:00,119 Speaker 1: come out there, doing everything they can to stop it. 397 00:27:00,480 --> 00:27:02,399 Speaker 1: You're trying to get people to sign the petition, But 398 00:27:03,000 --> 00:27:05,919 Speaker 1: I said, Sony is already moving ahead. And when you 399 00:27:05,960 --> 00:27:09,040 Speaker 1: even when you watch the trailer, it's it is, it's frightening, 400 00:27:09,040 --> 00:27:11,840 Speaker 1: and it's the fear is that it's going to encourage 401 00:27:12,240 --> 00:27:15,120 Speaker 1: like like we've already said it's going to encourage other teenagers. 402 00:27:15,200 --> 00:27:19,440 Speaker 1: Well it will, You're right, Mary, it will. It's going 403 00:27:19,480 --> 00:27:22,080 Speaker 1: on six thousand people who have already signed an online 404 00:27:22,080 --> 00:27:28,399 Speaker 1: petition complaining opposing Sony Pictures planned release of the movie 405 00:27:28,480 --> 00:27:34,240 Speaker 1: slender Man, the character who seemingly inspired to walk show 406 00:27:34,240 --> 00:27:38,159 Speaker 1: a little girls just twelve years old to try to 407 00:27:38,320 --> 00:27:43,639 Speaker 1: stab their sixth great little friend to death. The trailer 408 00:27:43,720 --> 00:27:47,440 Speaker 1: has just been released. It's supposed to come out in May. 409 00:27:47,840 --> 00:27:52,880 Speaker 1: I mean, what what will people do to make a dollar? 410 00:27:55,119 --> 00:27:57,600 Speaker 1: Is it worth it? People from all over the US 411 00:27:57,680 --> 00:28:02,840 Speaker 1: and other countries have gone online. The petition was started 412 00:28:03,280 --> 00:28:08,200 Speaker 1: by Alison Paris and she started Alison started the petition 413 00:28:08,240 --> 00:28:12,600 Speaker 1: at petition at Care Too. All over the world people 414 00:28:12,680 --> 00:28:16,680 Speaker 1: are joining in to oppose this. Do you really think 415 00:28:16,720 --> 00:28:20,720 Speaker 1: it's going to work, Cheryl? No, Nancy. I think there's 416 00:28:20,720 --> 00:28:23,080 Speaker 1: too much money to be made, and I take there's 417 00:28:23,119 --> 00:28:26,520 Speaker 1: too much fascination between young teenagers. What about it? Dr 418 00:28:26,600 --> 00:28:29,520 Speaker 1: Bethany Any hope that this petition is going to stop 419 00:28:29,560 --> 00:28:33,560 Speaker 1: it not at all. If if anything, it's going to 420 00:28:33,680 --> 00:28:37,280 Speaker 1: encourage the release of this movie, because these producers are 421 00:28:37,280 --> 00:28:41,320 Speaker 1: going to say, hey, there's this groundswell of interest in 422 00:28:41,360 --> 00:28:45,000 Speaker 1: this movie. It might be negative publicity, but it is publicity. 423 00:28:45,080 --> 00:28:47,960 Speaker 1: So we're going to have more viewers than ever watch 424 00:28:48,040 --> 00:28:51,600 Speaker 1: our movie. You know, Um, there have been so many 425 00:28:51,880 --> 00:28:54,640 Speaker 1: ups and downs and twists and turns to this case. 426 00:28:55,400 --> 00:29:00,080 Speaker 1: But what we know two girls are looking at it 427 00:29:01,040 --> 00:29:06,160 Speaker 1: twenty or more years in a mindal institution because of 428 00:29:06,280 --> 00:29:10,880 Speaker 1: Slenderman's effect on them. Now, one of their moms insists 429 00:29:11,960 --> 00:29:18,120 Speaker 1: that her daughter was schizophrenic. However, there was no indication 430 00:29:18,160 --> 00:29:21,360 Speaker 1: of that nor evidence of that before the attacks, at 431 00:29:21,400 --> 00:29:25,320 Speaker 1: least brought to the authorities. But whatever the truth is, 432 00:29:25,360 --> 00:29:29,640 Speaker 1: slender Man played a major role in the brutal attack 433 00:29:29,720 --> 00:29:33,160 Speaker 1: of a twelve year old little girl. And somebody is 434 00:29:33,160 --> 00:29:36,120 Speaker 1: going to make a lot of money off the slender 435 00:29:36,160 --> 00:29:39,120 Speaker 1: Man movie. But I can promise you this, it won't 436 00:29:39,160 --> 00:29:42,040 Speaker 1: come out of my pocket. I want to pause and 437 00:29:42,080 --> 00:29:48,000 Speaker 1: thank our partner making our program today, Legal Zoom, what's 438 00:29:48,000 --> 00:29:52,480 Speaker 1: your story? In two thousand eighteen, the holidays are over, 439 00:29:52,760 --> 00:29:56,680 Speaker 1: there's no excuse left. Now. Let legal Zoom make this 440 00:29:56,840 --> 00:30:00,720 Speaker 1: a memorable year before other distractions take hold. Make this 441 00:30:00,840 --> 00:30:04,280 Speaker 1: the year you get serious about launching and running your business, 442 00:30:04,720 --> 00:30:08,800 Speaker 1: or rest easier knowing your family's future is squared away 443 00:30:09,120 --> 00:30:14,120 Speaker 1: with the right estate plan. 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Get off 453 00:30:51,560 --> 00:30:54,320 Speaker 1: to a strong start in two thousand and eighteen at 454 00:30:54,440 --> 00:30:58,719 Speaker 1: legal zoom dot com. Get special savings today when you 455 00:30:58,920 --> 00:31:01,400 Speaker 1: enter code knee AN see n A n C Y 456 00:31:01,600 --> 00:31:05,400 Speaker 1: in the promo box at checkout legal Zoom where life 457 00:31:05,760 --> 00:31:09,600 Speaker 1: meets legal legal Zoom, thank you not only for what 458 00:31:09,840 --> 00:31:13,480 Speaker 1: you do for Americans across the country every day, but 459 00:31:13,640 --> 00:31:18,480 Speaker 1: for being our partner. And now we travel to Tucson, Arizona, 460 00:31:19,080 --> 00:31:23,760 Speaker 1: an infant, a newborn baby has been found abandoned at 461 00:31:23,800 --> 00:31:28,160 Speaker 1: the airport. Officials still don't know the identity, but they 462 00:31:28,280 --> 00:31:32,160 Speaker 1: have confirmed that the baby was found there at the 463 00:31:32,240 --> 00:31:35,280 Speaker 1: Tucson Airport. I've been in it many many times, Paul 464 00:31:35,360 --> 00:31:39,160 Speaker 1: Chambers joining me, investigative reporter and journalist. Paul, what do 465 00:31:39,280 --> 00:31:42,320 Speaker 1: we know right now? Well, Nancy, we know that an 466 00:31:42,360 --> 00:31:47,520 Speaker 1: airport employee found the newborn infant in a restroom that 467 00:31:47,840 --> 00:31:50,720 Speaker 1: was ahead of the secured area. It was near the 468 00:31:50,840 --> 00:31:54,560 Speaker 1: car rental counters, and it was about nine thirty Sunday 469 00:31:54,680 --> 00:31:58,560 Speaker 1: night that the child was found a clean wrapped and 470 00:31:58,800 --> 00:32:02,760 Speaker 1: left on a change table in the restroom. And UH 471 00:32:02,920 --> 00:32:06,440 Speaker 1: at this point they're looking at the security video to 472 00:32:06,560 --> 00:32:09,680 Speaker 1: see if they can find any clues as to whether 473 00:32:09,800 --> 00:32:12,840 Speaker 1: or not the baby was born in the restroom or 474 00:32:13,000 --> 00:32:16,280 Speaker 1: brought into it. And they also would like to identify 475 00:32:16,680 --> 00:32:21,440 Speaker 1: the mother. UH not necessarily to arrest her, because the 476 00:32:21,600 --> 00:32:27,920 Speaker 1: state has a UH Safe babyhave in law that allows 477 00:32:28,640 --> 00:32:33,120 Speaker 1: a mother to drop an infant off UH seventy two 478 00:32:33,160 --> 00:32:38,240 Speaker 1: hours or younger without fear of prosecution. However, you have 479 00:32:38,400 --> 00:32:41,200 Speaker 1: to go to a hospital, find an ambulance, or to 480 00:32:41,760 --> 00:32:45,560 Speaker 1: any of many authorized areas to drop that infant off. 481 00:32:45,680 --> 00:32:48,959 Speaker 1: You can't just leave it in a restroom at the airport. Uh. 482 00:32:49,080 --> 00:32:51,360 Speaker 1: And so they want to find the mother too, maybe 483 00:32:51,680 --> 00:32:54,760 Speaker 1: you know, ascertain whether she's okay, whether she needs any help. 484 00:32:55,400 --> 00:32:58,640 Speaker 1: And the boy we're told is healthy and is being 485 00:32:58,760 --> 00:33:01,520 Speaker 1: checked out at a hospital and doesn't appear to have 486 00:33:01,560 --> 00:33:06,080 Speaker 1: any problems. Joining me. Paul Chambers, investigative reporter, Cheryl McCullum, 487 00:33:06,400 --> 00:33:10,000 Speaker 1: Director of the Cold Case Institute, crime scene expert, Dr 488 00:33:10,240 --> 00:33:14,440 Speaker 1: Bethany Marshall, psychoanalysts joining us out of l A, and 489 00:33:14,800 --> 00:33:20,480 Speaker 1: Ashley Willcott, child advocate. I always look, Cheryl McCullum back 490 00:33:20,720 --> 00:33:24,640 Speaker 1: at the facts, because I feel that the facts unlock 491 00:33:24,880 --> 00:33:28,560 Speaker 1: the mysteries to the case. One thing that really jumped 492 00:33:28,560 --> 00:33:30,280 Speaker 1: out at me for those of you just joining us, 493 00:33:30,640 --> 00:33:34,479 Speaker 1: an infant child, a baby boy. We don't know how, oh, 494 00:33:34,600 --> 00:33:38,040 Speaker 1: but we think a newborn has been found abandoned at 495 00:33:38,080 --> 00:33:42,560 Speaker 1: the Tucson airports. So far, no one has claimed the baby. Cheryl, 496 00:33:42,760 --> 00:33:44,120 Speaker 1: what struck me? And I'm gonna have to go to 497 00:33:44,160 --> 00:33:47,360 Speaker 1: Bethany on this as well. The baby is perfectly clean, 498 00:33:48,160 --> 00:33:52,719 Speaker 1: wrapped up in a blanket and left on a changing table. 499 00:33:53,520 --> 00:33:57,840 Speaker 1: That speaks to me, that tells me something. Cheryl McCullum, Oh, 500 00:33:57,920 --> 00:34:02,000 Speaker 1: it speaks to me, volumes. He was playing, he was healthy, 501 00:34:02,160 --> 00:34:05,640 Speaker 1: he was well cared for. Just because you love the 502 00:34:05,720 --> 00:34:09,320 Speaker 1: baby does not mean you're able to care for the baby. 503 00:34:09,760 --> 00:34:12,799 Speaker 1: So it seems to me this person left him where 504 00:34:12,880 --> 00:34:16,160 Speaker 1: another woman would find him. Where he's you know, safe 505 00:34:16,200 --> 00:34:19,440 Speaker 1: on that tables, trapped in that table. Um, he's unharmed, 506 00:34:19,719 --> 00:34:24,280 Speaker 1: he's warm, he's been fed. So again, this person seemed, 507 00:34:24,360 --> 00:34:27,400 Speaker 1: just like the law says, they're either unable or unwilling 508 00:34:27,480 --> 00:34:29,960 Speaker 1: to care for him. Doesn't mean they wanted to hurt 509 00:34:30,000 --> 00:34:31,960 Speaker 1: him or didn't love him. I think you're right. It's 510 00:34:31,960 --> 00:34:38,399 Speaker 1: still why am I always the bad one? Dr Bethany? Yeah, 511 00:34:38,800 --> 00:34:41,480 Speaker 1: you love him, but you leave him alone on a 512 00:34:41,560 --> 00:34:48,400 Speaker 1: bathroom table in an airport where airports are notorious for 513 00:34:48,640 --> 00:34:54,040 Speaker 1: child trafficking. Hello, see I agree with you, nanth This 514 00:34:54,239 --> 00:34:57,360 Speaker 1: is one of the few times I've ever disagreed with 515 00:34:57,440 --> 00:35:00,359 Speaker 1: Cheryl McCollum because when she said safe and hell feet 516 00:35:00,400 --> 00:35:03,080 Speaker 1: on the changing table, my first thought was, well, what 517 00:35:03,200 --> 00:35:06,000 Speaker 1: if the baby falls off? What if a predator comes 518 00:35:06,040 --> 00:35:09,080 Speaker 1: into the bathroom? What if? What if? What if? I 519 00:35:09,160 --> 00:35:12,240 Speaker 1: mean an airport is one of the least safe places, 520 00:35:12,320 --> 00:35:15,359 Speaker 1: as you just said. And there's something about the fact 521 00:35:15,440 --> 00:35:19,520 Speaker 1: that the baby appears to have been attended to and 522 00:35:19,719 --> 00:35:23,120 Speaker 1: cared for prior to this that actually makes me wonder 523 00:35:23,239 --> 00:35:26,280 Speaker 1: about the mother as well. Maybe because I'm a mental 524 00:35:26,320 --> 00:35:29,080 Speaker 1: health expert, I'm thinking, did something happen to the mother? 525 00:35:29,239 --> 00:35:33,360 Speaker 1: I mean, is there something you know, what mother leaves 526 00:35:33,520 --> 00:35:36,920 Speaker 1: their baby and these kinds of circumstances. So I'm thinking, 527 00:35:37,040 --> 00:35:41,320 Speaker 1: you know, was the mother high on drugs by polar 528 00:35:41,719 --> 00:35:44,840 Speaker 1: Was there something that made the mother so compromised that 529 00:35:45,000 --> 00:35:49,439 Speaker 1: she just walked away from the baby. Because if you're 530 00:35:49,640 --> 00:35:53,560 Speaker 1: coaching enough to care for a baby, you're coaching enough 531 00:35:53,680 --> 00:35:56,760 Speaker 1: to leave the baby in a safer place. And that's 532 00:35:56,920 --> 00:35:59,000 Speaker 1: that to me, those are the facts that don't quite 533 00:35:59,040 --> 00:36:03,160 Speaker 1: stack up. Well, yeah, I mean, Cheryl McCollum, hold on, 534 00:36:03,480 --> 00:36:05,840 Speaker 1: hold on his sister, you want to tell me you 535 00:36:06,080 --> 00:36:09,120 Speaker 1: left one of your children alone on a changing table? Ever? 536 00:36:10,160 --> 00:36:13,320 Speaker 1: Never just let say yes no, that'd say yes no. 537 00:36:14,560 --> 00:36:19,640 Speaker 1: What human trafficking is a syre handed off? Whoa whoa, 538 00:36:19,680 --> 00:36:24,040 Speaker 1: whoa whoa. You're saying you never once left your child 539 00:36:24,160 --> 00:36:27,400 Speaker 1: alone on a changing table. There were the two times 540 00:36:27,440 --> 00:36:30,960 Speaker 1: in my life. I turned away from the bed in 541 00:36:31,040 --> 00:36:33,279 Speaker 1: our apartment in New York to get a towel to 542 00:36:33,440 --> 00:36:38,560 Speaker 1: change the children. Both times they jumped fell split off 543 00:36:38,600 --> 00:36:41,480 Speaker 1: the bed. When my back was turned twenty seconds to 544 00:36:41,600 --> 00:36:44,680 Speaker 1: get a towel, they both fall off the bed. I'm 545 00:36:45,200 --> 00:36:47,000 Speaker 1: of course, it's just before I have to go to work. 546 00:36:47,719 --> 00:36:51,680 Speaker 1: I'm out in the streets screaming and crying and snodding 547 00:36:51,800 --> 00:36:55,080 Speaker 1: for a cab to get to an emergency room. Okay, 548 00:36:55,320 --> 00:37:00,320 Speaker 1: that does. It never fails. So you wisely never turned 549 00:37:00,360 --> 00:37:03,000 Speaker 1: your back. But you're saying, oh, the mom loved him 550 00:37:03,120 --> 00:37:05,000 Speaker 1: so much because she bathed them. We wrapped him in 551 00:37:05,040 --> 00:37:09,799 Speaker 1: a blanket and left him on a table in an airport. 552 00:37:09,960 --> 00:37:15,759 Speaker 1: Hold on, hold on. Airports are hubs for human trafficking, 553 00:37:16,320 --> 00:37:22,880 Speaker 1: especially of children, children being transported into forced labor or exploitation. 554 00:37:23,680 --> 00:37:29,160 Speaker 1: Every country in the world affected by traffickers, and again, 555 00:37:29,760 --> 00:37:34,800 Speaker 1: for so many very obvious reasons. Airports are the hubs 556 00:37:35,280 --> 00:37:41,360 Speaker 1: of child trafficking. But you say, Cheryl, she loved the baby. 557 00:37:41,800 --> 00:37:45,160 Speaker 1: Now I think you should revise your opinions. Nancy. What 558 00:37:45,520 --> 00:37:49,840 Speaker 1: human trafficking, as you will know, is like a science. 559 00:37:50,000 --> 00:37:51,759 Speaker 1: I mean, they hand that baby off like a a 560 00:37:51,920 --> 00:37:55,960 Speaker 1: time during the full forty relay. So this child, if 561 00:37:56,000 --> 00:37:58,080 Speaker 1: it were somebody that just happened to go into labor 562 00:37:58,120 --> 00:38:00,360 Speaker 1: and have the baby in the bathroom, they were certainly 563 00:38:00,440 --> 00:38:03,040 Speaker 1: prepared because that baby was cleaned up, that baby was 564 00:38:03,120 --> 00:38:04,759 Speaker 1: put in new clothes, and that baby they had it, 565 00:38:05,040 --> 00:38:08,640 Speaker 1: they had a blanket. This seems it has the feel 566 00:38:09,200 --> 00:38:13,000 Speaker 1: that somebody wanted this baby to be found and they 567 00:38:13,120 --> 00:38:15,879 Speaker 1: had to leave again, so they were in too fine 568 00:38:16,040 --> 00:38:17,920 Speaker 1: and they either rented a car and went back to 569 00:38:18,000 --> 00:38:21,200 Speaker 1: college or went back home. Just does not have the 570 00:38:21,360 --> 00:38:23,960 Speaker 1: feel that this baby was harmed. But this was a 571 00:38:24,040 --> 00:38:26,080 Speaker 1: baby that was born to a drug ad They would 572 00:38:26,120 --> 00:38:28,040 Speaker 1: know by looking at this child that he was born 573 00:38:28,160 --> 00:38:31,319 Speaker 1: of a drug addict. He wasn't pre me he wasn't sick, 574 00:38:31,440 --> 00:38:35,400 Speaker 1: he wasn't unhealthy, he wasn't harmed. This is a baby 575 00:38:35,520 --> 00:38:38,960 Speaker 1: that was born it appears to somebody that was healthy 576 00:38:39,400 --> 00:38:43,040 Speaker 1: and willing to let somebody else care for him. And 577 00:38:43,200 --> 00:38:46,000 Speaker 1: this is well, if they're so willing. Had you just 578 00:38:46,120 --> 00:38:51,600 Speaker 1: heard you just heard Paul Chambers talk about safe babyhaveing loss, 579 00:38:51,640 --> 00:38:54,520 Speaker 1: which means up to a certain point, you can drop 580 00:38:54,640 --> 00:38:57,480 Speaker 1: your baby at a fire station, a police station, a hospital. 581 00:38:57,920 --> 00:39:03,560 Speaker 1: But they've got to be designated safe havens. To Dr Bessanty, Nancy, 582 00:39:03,600 --> 00:39:05,680 Speaker 1: you got that they jump in here. You gotta let 583 00:39:05,760 --> 00:39:09,240 Speaker 1: you tell you, Okay, hit me somebody faith to Susan Smith, 584 00:39:09,680 --> 00:39:13,600 Speaker 1: how many people would have taken those children? So forget 585 00:39:13,680 --> 00:39:17,799 Speaker 1: the seventy two hours. If you decide I cannot take 586 00:39:17,880 --> 00:39:21,040 Speaker 1: care of this three year old, for the love of God, 587 00:39:21,480 --> 00:39:24,680 Speaker 1: take that three year old somewhere dropping at my house 588 00:39:25,400 --> 00:39:28,680 Speaker 1: out fading sin seal right, this man. I agree with you, Cheryl. 589 00:39:28,960 --> 00:39:32,279 Speaker 1: I agree with you, but not at an airport. Don't 590 00:39:32,440 --> 00:39:37,200 Speaker 1: leave the baby alone unattended in an airport, Ashy Wilcote, 591 00:39:37,239 --> 00:39:40,040 Speaker 1: can you talk some sense and to her, I completely 592 00:39:40,120 --> 00:39:42,960 Speaker 1: agree that's something's hinky in this case because I do 593 00:39:43,080 --> 00:39:46,160 Speaker 1: agree the baby appears to be healthy check great news. 594 00:39:46,400 --> 00:39:49,440 Speaker 1: But what who's going to leave the child in an 595 00:39:49,520 --> 00:39:52,960 Speaker 1: airport like you're saying? And the safe baby haven is 596 00:39:53,440 --> 00:39:57,840 Speaker 1: is very um proactive in a way to protect children 597 00:39:58,280 --> 00:40:00,600 Speaker 1: from parents who are unable to care for their children, 598 00:40:00,680 --> 00:40:02,480 Speaker 1: because that's gonna happen at some point in time. A 599 00:40:02,600 --> 00:40:05,000 Speaker 1: parent simply can't provide for a child doesn't mean they 600 00:40:05,040 --> 00:40:08,320 Speaker 1: don't love them, but it specifically gives places that you 601 00:40:08,400 --> 00:40:10,759 Speaker 1: can take the child so that the child will be 602 00:40:11,040 --> 00:40:16,440 Speaker 1: treated and not further horned. Get fire stations, hospitals, private 603 00:40:16,520 --> 00:40:20,560 Speaker 1: welfare agencies, churches. Indiana even said, hey, let's have what 604 00:40:20,760 --> 00:40:23,759 Speaker 1: we call a baby box, an infant box where you 605 00:40:23,840 --> 00:40:26,480 Speaker 1: can leave these babies and they get proper medical care 606 00:40:26,520 --> 00:40:28,920 Speaker 1: and treatment and no stranger is going to pick them 607 00:40:29,000 --> 00:40:31,759 Speaker 1: up and further abuse them. So that's the problem with 608 00:40:31,840 --> 00:40:34,120 Speaker 1: this case that I see. Is it good that the 609 00:40:34,160 --> 00:40:38,160 Speaker 1: baby was was healthy? Absolutely? Is that the right place 610 00:40:38,239 --> 00:40:40,919 Speaker 1: for a rational parent who loves their child and wants 611 00:40:40,960 --> 00:40:42,880 Speaker 1: to care for their child to leave the baby? No, 612 00:40:43,320 --> 00:40:46,080 Speaker 1: it definitely is it. And I hear the two of you, 613 00:40:46,360 --> 00:40:49,400 Speaker 1: and I'm I see the truth in both and what 614 00:40:49,600 --> 00:40:52,880 Speaker 1: both of you were saying. Cheryl McCollum is advocating for 615 00:40:52,920 --> 00:40:56,880 Speaker 1: the safe Babyhavin, which I agree with. If you can't 616 00:40:57,080 --> 00:41:00,160 Speaker 1: keep the baby for whatever reason, I don't care give 617 00:41:00,200 --> 00:41:04,200 Speaker 1: it to somebody that wants a baby. There are millions 618 00:41:04,280 --> 00:41:07,560 Speaker 1: of people I'd love to take in a baby that 619 00:41:07,760 --> 00:41:12,360 Speaker 1: doesn't have a home. So that's her point. My point, 620 00:41:12,560 --> 00:41:15,640 Speaker 1: and I think Ashley Wilcott agrees is don't leave it 621 00:41:16,280 --> 00:41:20,320 Speaker 1: at a child trafficking hub. Okay, that that not a 622 00:41:20,400 --> 00:41:25,360 Speaker 1: good idea, so to you. Paul Chambers joining me, We 623 00:41:25,480 --> 00:41:27,279 Speaker 1: don't know yet whether the baby was born in the 624 00:41:27,360 --> 00:41:30,520 Speaker 1: bathroom or whether he was left there after being born. 625 00:41:31,120 --> 00:41:35,160 Speaker 1: But what about security footage? I mean, airports are like casinos. 626 00:41:35,640 --> 00:41:38,920 Speaker 1: I don't know how how good the footage is at 627 00:41:38,960 --> 00:41:42,160 Speaker 1: the Tucson Airport, but I assumed pretty good. Right. Well, 628 00:41:42,239 --> 00:41:46,440 Speaker 1: if it's an airport, obviously security is the main concern. 629 00:41:46,640 --> 00:41:51,560 Speaker 1: Even though this is outside the passenger screening area, you 630 00:41:51,719 --> 00:41:55,279 Speaker 1: have to imagine that there were several security cameras uh 631 00:41:55,920 --> 00:41:59,520 Speaker 1: near this particular public restroom, and they are going to 632 00:41:59,600 --> 00:42:03,480 Speaker 1: be looking at this material, the footage from these surveillance 633 00:42:03,560 --> 00:42:09,760 Speaker 1: cameras to try to determine whether, uh exactly who brought 634 00:42:10,400 --> 00:42:15,000 Speaker 1: this child into the restroom and left it there. Well, 635 00:42:15,120 --> 00:42:17,640 Speaker 1: here's another clue there, I got another clue for you. 636 00:42:18,000 --> 00:42:20,919 Speaker 1: What about this, Sheryl McCollum. The baby boy was found 637 00:42:20,960 --> 00:42:25,600 Speaker 1: in a restroom near the rental car counters and outside 638 00:42:26,280 --> 00:42:31,759 Speaker 1: airport security, which means this person never went through the 639 00:42:31,840 --> 00:42:36,640 Speaker 1: security line, through the metal detector, I through all those cameras. 640 00:42:36,960 --> 00:42:40,480 Speaker 1: This is before security. This tells me the mom may 641 00:42:40,560 --> 00:42:42,919 Speaker 1: not have taken a flight that she may have come, 642 00:42:43,200 --> 00:42:46,720 Speaker 1: dropped the baby, abandoned the baby and left Sheryl no questions. 643 00:42:47,080 --> 00:42:50,960 Speaker 1: But Nancy, I'm gonna still say children are stolen from hospital, 644 00:42:51,920 --> 00:42:55,319 Speaker 1: can be taken from anywhere. This person did the right 645 00:42:55,800 --> 00:42:59,239 Speaker 1: thing if they left the baby because they were going 646 00:42:59,280 --> 00:43:01,719 Speaker 1: to harm the bay, well, because they couldn't care for 647 00:43:01,760 --> 00:43:04,800 Speaker 1: the baby, or they didn't want the baby, so before 648 00:43:05,000 --> 00:43:08,080 Speaker 1: something drastic is done. Because we see that all the time, Nancy, 649 00:43:08,160 --> 00:43:10,680 Speaker 1: and you and I have cherfully seen it where they 650 00:43:10,760 --> 00:43:14,520 Speaker 1: leave the baby upside well, I agree. I agree with that. 651 00:43:14,719 --> 00:43:17,279 Speaker 1: Better to leave the baby anywhere that end up killing 652 00:43:17,360 --> 00:43:19,239 Speaker 1: the baby and burying it in the backyard by the 653 00:43:19,280 --> 00:43:22,359 Speaker 1: barbecue pit, like a case we've recently covered. I give 654 00:43:22,400 --> 00:43:24,560 Speaker 1: you that, Ryl, I give you that. But that's that's 655 00:43:24,560 --> 00:43:27,520 Speaker 1: what I always tell my husband. I'm like, I'll say, uh, 656 00:43:27,960 --> 00:43:30,480 Speaker 1: could just speed up just a little bit, and he goes, 657 00:43:30,719 --> 00:43:33,160 Speaker 1: I don't want to kill anybody, And I'm like, David, 658 00:43:33,480 --> 00:43:36,960 Speaker 1: isn't there a happy medium between going a hundred and 659 00:43:37,040 --> 00:43:40,879 Speaker 1: fifty mph and running down children at a cross walk 660 00:43:40,960 --> 00:43:44,040 Speaker 1: and going twenty five? Isn't there somewhat something we can 661 00:43:44,160 --> 00:43:47,840 Speaker 1: agree on in the middle like maybe fifty. So my 662 00:43:48,000 --> 00:43:52,919 Speaker 1: point to you, miss Cheryl McCollum is that isn't there 663 00:43:53,120 --> 00:43:57,200 Speaker 1: a better alternative between killing your baby and burying it 664 00:43:57,280 --> 00:44:00,279 Speaker 1: by the barbecue pit and leaving it at a child 665 00:44:00,320 --> 00:44:04,239 Speaker 1: trafficking hub. I mean, couldn't you leave it outside the church, 666 00:44:04,680 --> 00:44:09,000 Speaker 1: outside a hospital, just at a police station? And if anything, 667 00:44:09,640 --> 00:44:14,000 Speaker 1: I mean, am I Bethany, You're you're the crazy doctor? 668 00:44:14,400 --> 00:44:19,399 Speaker 1: Am I crazy? Here? Actually? I'm thinking about something Cheryl said, 669 00:44:19,520 --> 00:44:22,239 Speaker 1: as the fact that this could have been a young mother. 670 00:44:22,920 --> 00:44:26,759 Speaker 1: And because we know that um women who give up 671 00:44:26,800 --> 00:44:29,799 Speaker 1: their babies, whether they they take them to a safe, 672 00:44:29,840 --> 00:44:32,640 Speaker 1: harder place or they killed the baby, they don't really 673 00:44:32,680 --> 00:44:35,759 Speaker 1: conceptualize that they're pregnant. They don't bond with the baby 674 00:44:35,880 --> 00:44:39,279 Speaker 1: during pregnancy, that the baby feels like an it rather 675 00:44:39,400 --> 00:44:42,120 Speaker 1: than a heat or a she. And the fact that 676 00:44:42,200 --> 00:44:45,480 Speaker 1: the baby was tended to and left in a highly 677 00:44:45,560 --> 00:44:50,080 Speaker 1: trafficked area does imply that the mother had some thought 678 00:44:50,160 --> 00:44:52,720 Speaker 1: about the welfare of the baby, because, you know, Nancy, 679 00:44:52,800 --> 00:44:55,279 Speaker 1: we cover so many stories where the babies in a 680 00:44:55,440 --> 00:44:59,239 Speaker 1: gas station bathroom trying you know, the mother tries to 681 00:44:59,280 --> 00:45:02,200 Speaker 1: flush the baby on the toilet, it's it's left in 682 00:45:02,280 --> 00:45:06,399 Speaker 1: a trash can and a dumpster. And actually this mother 683 00:45:06,680 --> 00:45:11,000 Speaker 1: did choose a highly trafficked area, which means that she 684 00:45:11,160 --> 00:45:13,839 Speaker 1: did not want the baby left unattended for a long 685 00:45:13,920 --> 00:45:17,040 Speaker 1: long time. So you think of an immature mother, a 686 00:45:17,160 --> 00:45:20,520 Speaker 1: young mother there there may be not thinking about you know, 687 00:45:20,960 --> 00:45:24,920 Speaker 1: child human trafficking. They're thinking about what where can I 688 00:45:25,080 --> 00:45:27,640 Speaker 1: leave the baby where a lot of women are going 689 00:45:27,680 --> 00:45:30,319 Speaker 1: to come in and out in a short period of time, 690 00:45:30,800 --> 00:45:32,920 Speaker 1: so that baby will not be left on that changing 691 00:45:33,000 --> 00:45:34,960 Speaker 1: table for a long time. It's not how you and 692 00:45:35,040 --> 00:45:37,680 Speaker 1: I would think, but maybe that's how a sixteen year 693 00:45:37,719 --> 00:45:41,520 Speaker 1: old would think. Nancy, this is Ashley. I just have 694 00:45:41,760 --> 00:45:44,080 Speaker 1: to you know, I hate to say something nefarious is 695 00:45:44,120 --> 00:45:46,960 Speaker 1: a foot. I think it's hopeful that it's as innocent 696 00:45:47,120 --> 00:45:49,919 Speaker 1: as this mother is choosing to leave her child where 697 00:45:49,960 --> 00:45:52,040 Speaker 1: someone can get the child. In this day and age 698 00:45:52,080 --> 00:45:54,600 Speaker 1: and what I see every single day as a judge 699 00:45:54,719 --> 00:45:57,640 Speaker 1: in juvenile court, I have to worry. What if it's 700 00:45:57,680 --> 00:46:00,960 Speaker 1: a mother who sold the baby and the terms were, oh, 701 00:46:01,160 --> 00:46:02,880 Speaker 1: I'm gonna leave the baby and you're gonna come in 702 00:46:02,960 --> 00:46:05,000 Speaker 1: and get that baby right away. What if it's the 703 00:46:05,040 --> 00:46:08,239 Speaker 1: baby and what if the mother is a criminal and said, hey, 704 00:46:08,520 --> 00:46:11,960 Speaker 1: I'm okay selling my child for for sex trafficking, how 705 00:46:12,000 --> 00:46:14,359 Speaker 1: are we going to make this swap. I'm gonna leave 706 00:46:14,360 --> 00:46:16,279 Speaker 1: the child, you pick a child up. I'm not saying 707 00:46:16,320 --> 00:46:19,360 Speaker 1: that happened. I am not accusing this mother of anything, 708 00:46:19,480 --> 00:46:21,680 Speaker 1: but I do think it's naive to not think that 709 00:46:21,840 --> 00:46:24,360 Speaker 1: there could be something to farious a foot. There is 710 00:46:24,440 --> 00:46:26,600 Speaker 1: something the faireus a foot, and that is the baby 711 00:46:26,760 --> 00:46:30,120 Speaker 1: was abandoned and it could have been kidnapped, exploited, who 712 00:46:30,280 --> 00:46:33,960 Speaker 1: knows what. But right now the baby is safe and sound. 713 00:46:34,080 --> 00:46:38,360 Speaker 1: If you have information, here's the tip line. Five to 714 00:46:38,840 --> 00:46:43,400 Speaker 1: zero seven nine one four four four four, five to 715 00:46:43,719 --> 00:46:48,520 Speaker 1: zero seven nine one four four four four or five 716 00:46:48,600 --> 00:46:53,320 Speaker 1: to zero seven nine eight one three five to zero 717 00:46:53,640 --> 00:46:58,680 Speaker 1: seven nine one six eight one three. We are waiting 718 00:46:58,760 --> 00:47:02,839 Speaker 1: for justice to on fall. Nancy Grace Crime Stories, signing off, 719 00:47:03,800 --> 00:47:04,560 Speaker 1: goodbye friend