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Speaker 1: At approximately eight thirty Wednesday, August twenty seventh, in Minneapolis,

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Speaker 1: a shooter open fire at children sitting in church pews

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Speaker 1: during worship service at their school. Two children were killed

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Speaker 1: and eighteen others were injured. The killer, Robin Westman, twenty three,

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Speaker 1: died of a self inflicted gunshot wound on sen He

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Speaker 1: had attended the same school as a child. He was

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Speaker 1: armed with an AR fifteen, a twelve gate shotgun, and

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Speaker 1: a nine millimeter handgun. The two murder victims were Fletcher Rkle,

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Speaker 1: age eight, and Harper Moyski, aged ten. Police recovered one

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Speaker 1: live round from the handgun, most likely malfunctioned, three shotgun shells,

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Speaker 1: and one hundred and sixteen rifle rounds.

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Speaker 2: Now.

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Speaker 1: This nightmare didn't end at the school. For the parents

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Speaker 1: of Fletcher and Harper, they had to go to the Morgue,

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Speaker 1: Doctor Priabanergy, I'm going to turn it right over to

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Speaker 1: you because one thing people I don't think realize in

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Speaker 1: the aftermath are the levels that occur, the system that's

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Speaker 1: in place, the things people have to do, and then

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Speaker 1: how it affects you.

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Speaker 3: I'm out a little bit out of a loss for words,

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Speaker 3: which is a rarity but Wednesday was a very emotional

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Speaker 3: day for me, as it was my birthday, it was

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Speaker 3: my daughter's first day back to school, and she's eleven.

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Speaker 3: She goes to a Catholic school. I don't think you

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Speaker 3: can draw more parallels except you know, we were blessed

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Speaker 3: that there was no incident at our school. Here I

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Speaker 3: can't say the same. You know, there's no words for me.

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Speaker 3: There's no medical training that prepares you to speak about

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Speaker 3: this kind of tragedy. So if my words seem ill

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Speaker 3: fitting or not flowing as well, it's because of that.

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Speaker 3: All day, all I wanted to do was run to

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Speaker 3: my daughter's.

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Speaker 2: School and make sure she was okay.

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Speaker 3: They're not allowed to have cell phones or anything, so

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Speaker 3: I couldn't text her. But that was an irrational response, right.

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Speaker 3: That's not the medical examiner side of me talking. That

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Speaker 3: is the mom side of me talking. All I wanted

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Speaker 3: to do was run. And her school starts at eight,

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Speaker 3: so eight thirty wasn't that far off, and it's a

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Speaker 3: big transition year for her going to middle school. And

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Speaker 3: all I could think about is I wish I could

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Speaker 3: just go hug my daughter and make sure she's okay,

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Speaker 3: And the whole day instead of sort of celebrating and relaxing,

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Speaker 3: which is what I was supposed to do. I sort

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Speaker 3: of had this edge on me. And it wasn't until

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Speaker 3: she came home and as a mom, a doctor, a human,

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Speaker 3: you know, I don't know how else to qualify it,

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Speaker 3: but nothing but the most sincere condolences, you know, of

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Speaker 3: the biggest loss of their lives for these two families.

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Speaker 1: I mean, it hits you at every level.

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Speaker 2: Every level. And the other thing that I always say.

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Speaker 3: Professionally, I'm going to put my professional hat on now

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Speaker 3: because I can never really reconcile this tragic loss of

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Speaker 3: life for kids. So there's nothing I can say in

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Speaker 3: two hours, five hours a year that will cover that loss.

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Speaker 1: You know.

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Speaker 3: But when I put my I leave, my mom had

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Speaker 3: a side and sort of switched to the professional side.

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Speaker 2: You know, it's utter chaos.

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Speaker 3: They don't know who these children are at first, right,

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Speaker 3: there's I mean, you can imagine the scenes and you

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Speaker 3: could probably talk about it too. One hundred and sixteen rounds.

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Speaker 3: I mean, there's so many. It's you know, there's one

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Speaker 3: crime scene if you will, but I'm sure it's multiple

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Speaker 3: rooms in the school outside inside, like you know, the chaos.

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Speaker 3: That's their evidence is probably getting shifted around just by

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Speaker 3: the movement of the people. And I actually I want

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Speaker 3: to step back.

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Speaker 2: I think I had.

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Speaker 3: Heard there was eighteen that were injured, so that doesn't

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Speaker 3: I mean, thank god that they are alive, but I

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Speaker 3: don't know the extent of their injuries. And let's not

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Speaker 3: forget about the mental toll. We're talking about physical injuries,

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Speaker 3: but every single child, every single teacher in that school

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Speaker 3: will not see life the same, you know. And the

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Speaker 3: guts it takes for parents of surviving children to send

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Speaker 3: their school you know, kid to school the next day

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Speaker 3: or the week after is beyond me in any case,

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Speaker 3: like looking at it as a crime scene, and then

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Speaker 3: the bodies, I mean, eighteen people have to be taken

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Speaker 3: to the hospital. I'm not an er doc, but just

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Speaker 3: imagine the volume, you know, it's flooding the er, right,

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Speaker 3: They're not always ready for this many patients. Luckily, Minneapolis

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Speaker 3: is a big metropolis, so they should have you know,

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Speaker 3: at least one level one trauma center to deal with

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Speaker 3: the injuries. And then those patients are going to be triaged.

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Speaker 3: Who's critical going to need to go to the surgery?

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Speaker 3: I mean, you can imagine the domino it effect it

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Speaker 3: has on the living people and the you know, doctors,

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Speaker 3: my colleagues in the er and surgeons who are taking

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Speaker 3: care of them, flipping to.

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Speaker 2: The met office.

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Speaker 3: I mean, really, what happens is, you know, grabbing the

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Speaker 3: bodies of the two children, making sure they're secure, and

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Speaker 3: then the real work starts, you know, at the autopsy. Right,

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Speaker 3: it's do we even know who these children are? Usually,

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Speaker 3: like my daughter's uniform doesn't have her name on it

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Speaker 3: or anything, It just has the school name. So you know,

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Speaker 3: you have to get someone reliable to id these. You know,

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Speaker 3: before you can call the parents in and say your

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Speaker 3: child has been murdered, you have to know who they are.

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Speaker 2: So there's you know, we call that.

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Speaker 3: We sometimes have them as a tentative or unknown child.

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Speaker 3: You know they'll be not that they're gonna be unknown permanently,

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Speaker 3: but we have to treat their ideas unknown at that

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Speaker 3: immediate chaotic moment that they're pronounced dead and then being

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Speaker 3: taken to the morgue.

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Speaker 2: And then you know, these are homicides, and.

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Speaker 3: I think I want to step back and just look

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Speaker 3: at the global picture. Well, we know that the shooter

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Speaker 3: is dead as well, and I think many might ask,

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Speaker 3: what's the purpose of doing autopsies on two murdered children

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Speaker 3: when we know who the shooter was and the shooter's dead,

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Speaker 3: so there's no potential prosecution. But it is our due diligence,

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Speaker 3: like why would you work that crime scene and collect

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Speaker 3: all that evidence if we know sort of what happened?

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Speaker 3: You know that so it can go. I'd like you

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Speaker 3: to talk about that as well. But from my perspective,

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Speaker 3: any homicide needs to have an autopsy. We treat it

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Speaker 3: no different as a as a medical examiner. We don't

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Speaker 3: really look at what's going to be the legal outcome.

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Speaker 3: Does that make sense? We don't say is this going

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Speaker 3: to go to court? Is this not going to go

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Speaker 3: to court? That's not how we triage cases or or

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Speaker 3: you know, define what needs a very detailed workup. Any

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Speaker 3: homicide gets the full work up, and whether it goes

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Speaker 3: to court, whether there's a plea deal, or whether it's

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Speaker 3: a closed case. You know, because the shooter is dead,

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Speaker 3: that's not our jurisdiction, that's not our judgment.

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Speaker 1: Well, I know, for me, you mentioned the word chaos,

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Speaker 1: and you're absolutely right, But at that moment, even though

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Speaker 1: you have an adult person dead on scene with magazines

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Speaker 1: and firearms near them. We don't know if there's a

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Speaker 1: second shooter. We don't know whether or not he had help.

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Speaker 1: So even though it is chaotic, there's some things we

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Speaker 1: absolutely know to do, and that is get the victims

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Speaker 1: to you.

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Speaker 2: I think first and foremost it's take care of any

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Speaker 2: living oh.

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Speaker 1: Right, yes, yes, yes, of course. But I'm saying if

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Speaker 1: I know I've got a you know, a murdered victim,

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Speaker 1: I know they go to you so that I don't

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Speaker 1: have to think about yes.

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Speaker 2: Right, And so that's the thing. It's, you know, it's

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Speaker 2: maybe a dual pronged approach.

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Speaker 3: If you will get the living injured to the er,

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Speaker 3: get the you know, tragically murdered kids in this case

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Speaker 3: to the morgue, and like really, then.

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Speaker 2: The other evidence is static.

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Speaker 3: Right, you can take hours to process the you can't

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Speaker 3: really work around you know, having the bodies there, having

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Speaker 3: injured victims there. That really complicates your work, probably even more.

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Speaker 3: You know, I've done a lot of crime scene work

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Speaker 3: myself when there's murdered victim or victims at the scene,

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Speaker 3: and really the police just you know, it's a dual

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Speaker 3: pronged approach where we are there photographing the victim at

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Speaker 3: the scene, but then after that, let's you know, bag

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Speaker 3: them and roll, you know, roll out of here. And

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Speaker 3: then once we're in the autopsy suite, you know, what

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Speaker 3: we're doing is we're X raying the bodies. We're trying

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Speaker 3: to my investigators are now working on identifying these kids.

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Speaker 3: You know, maybe at the scene we can get a

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Speaker 3: lead on a name, but think about it, kids aren't

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Speaker 3: going to have fingerprints in the system, right or a

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Speaker 3: driver's license or anything like that.

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Speaker 2: So we're really working with basic you know who is this?

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Speaker 3: Is there a school administrator, a school fo kodos that

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Speaker 3: can help us get a lead. And you know what

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Speaker 3: did I do Tuesday night? I filled out an emergency

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Speaker 3: contact card for my daughter.

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Speaker 2: When she started school Wednesday.

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Speaker 3: So I hate to say it, that's going to come

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Speaker 3: into play because once we know that, you know, that's

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Speaker 3: how you contact the parents.

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Speaker 1: And the reality is you've got parents rushing to that school,

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Speaker 1: and you've got two parents that are not being met

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Speaker 1: up with their child.

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Speaker 3: And I hate to say, you don't want to be

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Speaker 3: left in that, you know, process of elimination, because then

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Speaker 3: we know the horrible ending, you know, And I.

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Speaker 2: Was like, who do I put on this card?

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Speaker 1: Right?

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Speaker 3: Oh my god, They're having me fill this out year

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Speaker 3: after year. Why everybody knows me? Everybody knows dia. But

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Speaker 3: this is why we do it, right, the emergency contact

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Speaker 3: the kids' allergies. I mean, it may come that the

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Speaker 3: parents aren't able to contact the I'm talking about the

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Speaker 3: living individuals, right, but sometimes the kids might not know

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Speaker 3: what they're They're so young, they might not know what

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Speaker 3: they're allergic to. But that information can be provided to

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Speaker 3: treating physicians. Think about it, wounds, meat, antibiotics and stuff

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Speaker 3: like that. So even that like medical history you give

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Speaker 3: to the school can come into play.

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Speaker 2: For the living kids and you know staff.

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Speaker 3: So what happens is, yeah, we'll start from like coming

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Speaker 3: through the door of the morgue. We're gonna first anytime

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Speaker 3: there's trauma, we're gonna get X.

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Speaker 2: Rays, full body x rays.

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Speaker 3: And then what we're gonna do is, really this is

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Speaker 3: a homicide, So there's gonna be trace evidence. I mean,

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Speaker 3: if they've been shot, I don't know, if there's shrapnel

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Speaker 3: like on their body, We're gonna bag their clothes. We're

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Speaker 3: gonna clip their fingernails for any DNA. Potentially, we take

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Speaker 3: full sets of fingerprints for every homicide victim, you know,

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Speaker 3: document all their clothing and heartbreaking it's probably a school

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Speaker 3: uniform given that it's a Catholic school. And then we're

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Speaker 3: going to do the same thing we talked about in

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Speaker 3: episodes past, right, it's a very systematic approach. Now in

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Speaker 3: this case, the external is even more complex because there

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Speaker 3: are injuries. Okay, and by injuries I mean gunshot wounds.

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Speaker 3: And let me step back though, you know, you don't

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Speaker 3: want to just go back and sort of look at

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Speaker 3: the obvious, like the gunshot wounds. You know, I don't

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Speaker 3: know if these kids were crawling or they fell or

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Speaker 3: anything in the process of being shot. It's a horrible

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Speaker 3: way to think about it. But they can sustain other

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Speaker 3: injuries other than gunshot wounds too, right in the process

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Speaker 3: of the of the chaos. And so I always say that,

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Speaker 3: you know, I testify in court it's my job to

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Speaker 3: document every nick and scratch on the body. Doesn't mean

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Speaker 3: that that's a lethal injury, but that's still an injury.

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Speaker 3: So the external is very thoroughly done basically with a

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Speaker 3: you know, very systematic approach very uh, you know, head

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Speaker 3: to toe, like I told you, I always do, then

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Speaker 3: the right side of the body, the left side of

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Speaker 3: the body, and then the back of the body.

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Speaker 2: But every time we're doing this, we're looking for.

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Speaker 3: A bruise, a cut, any external materials they're broken glass, metal,

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Speaker 3: you know, anything that was shot through that kind of

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Speaker 3: fiber evidence. And then then what we're doing is once

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Speaker 3: the body is undressed, taking photos of every single gunshot wound.

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Speaker 2: There I take at least three.

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Speaker 3: Photos per gunshot wound, like a distant one, a medium range,

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Speaker 3: and then a close up. Then each of these gunshot wounds,

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Speaker 3: we measure from the top of the head and right

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Speaker 3: and left of midline, so we can you're giving coordinates

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Speaker 3: if you will, on the body to exactly place where

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Speaker 3: these are located. And remember these are children, so like

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Speaker 3: the measurements are.

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Speaker 2: Going to be smaller, you know what I mean. And

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Speaker 2: that's what is really heartbreaking.

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Speaker 1: Well, let me ask you something, because you mentioned something

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Speaker 1: a couple of times and it's the most accurate thing

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Speaker 1: ever in a situation like this, I used to be

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Speaker 1: able to work cases, move on, come home, not think

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Speaker 1: about them, and then I had a child. I'm going

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Speaker 1: to tell you something. The first child case I worked

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Speaker 1: after that, I was pitiful.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it just.

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Speaker 1: Something happens, right, I mean all those switches, like I'm

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Speaker 1: reprogrammed in a way, you are reprogrammed, and you can't

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Speaker 1: stop it. You can't help it, you can't see it

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Speaker 1: the same as you used to. You can't be just

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Speaker 1: detached anymore. It's like I have two grown children, they're

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Speaker 1: both in their twenties. I can be at a grocery

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Speaker 1: store and hear a little child say Mama, and I'm turning.

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Speaker 1: I'm turning around.

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Speaker 2: Who needs me?

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Speaker 1: I know it ain't my child. I don't have a

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Speaker 1: little one, but I am, just as you say, programmed,

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Speaker 1: who needs me? And the idea that I am running

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Speaker 1: to a school where I cannot find my child, and

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Speaker 1: then I've got to drive to a mord to identify them,

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Speaker 1: only to learn exactly what happened in such a horrific manner.

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna tell you I don't like to go pick

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Speaker 1: up evidence at a MORD. I will pull in the

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Speaker 1: parking lot, i will survey are there any personal cars here?

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Speaker 1: If it's all police cars and medical examiners cars, I'll

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Speaker 1: go straight in. Yeah, But if I say a bunch

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Speaker 1: of personal cars, I'm a wait a minute, because I

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Speaker 1: know what's happening inside there. And one, I think they

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Speaker 1: need all the privacy in the world. And number two,

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Speaker 1: if I see it or hear it, I can't forget it.

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Speaker 1: So for you, you not only have to work this crime,

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Speaker 1: you have to deal with the parents on a level

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Speaker 1: that most people won't ever have to deal with them.

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Speaker 3: So that is, yeah, I can. It's a very loaded,

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Speaker 3: you know response for me as a mom. So I

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Speaker 3: went back to work at eight weeks after having my

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Speaker 3: daughter and probably so three months so when she was

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Speaker 3: an infant three months of age or four months of age.

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Speaker 3: I had my first infant autopsy after coming back from

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Speaker 3: maternity leave and pregnancy leave, and they actually and my

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Speaker 3: chief definitely stepped up and said are you okay to

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Speaker 3: do this? And I remember thinking that is she was

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Speaker 3: a woman who also was a mom, and that was

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Speaker 3: a very sensitive like question, and I said, yeah, I am,

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Speaker 3: you know, And I think first of all, it was

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Speaker 3: good for me to be back at work wearing that hat, right,

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Speaker 3: And for me, I always treat children. I'm pretty obsessive.

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Speaker 3: I mean, I'm pretty obsessive about a lot of things,

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Speaker 3: but type A as people like to say. But I

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Speaker 3: got called hawkeye in my fellowship because I would pick

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Speaker 3: up and subtle details. And I think that is the

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Speaker 3: level of analysis I bring to any child death, you know.

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Speaker 3: So being a mom, I think gives me more ownership

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Speaker 3: and be like, Okay, I got to do a damn

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Speaker 3: good job, you know, like there's no message around, and

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Speaker 3: I think that's what allows me to push forward, okay,

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Speaker 3: because if you get lost in emotion and I and

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Speaker 3: I do learn to come part mentalize, right, Like that's

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Speaker 3: the whole point. Just like they say, you don't treat

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Speaker 3: your loved ones if you're a surgeon or a doctor,

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Speaker 3: because you can't remove yourself emotionally. You don't autopsy anybody,

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Speaker 3: you know, because it becomes emotional. You know, you can't compartmentalize.

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Speaker 3: But when I have to put my doctor hat on,

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Speaker 3: especially God, I can't even imagine in a tragedy like this.

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Speaker 1: It's on.

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Speaker 3: It's on, like uh you know for those some listening

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Speaker 3: on like Donkey Kong, it is. You know, we are

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Speaker 3: working and we are not messing around. And that's how

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Speaker 3: I look at it, because I owe these parents every

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Speaker 3: answer I owe this child. I'm the last doctor this

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Speaker 3: child is seeing and you know, God help me, it

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Speaker 3: is going to be a detailed report. I'm not missing anything.

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Speaker 1: Awesome, Doctor Prea. Thank you for your service, thank you

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Speaker 1: for this information today, and thank you. Thank you were

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Speaker 1: just being who you are. You were a friend of everybody.

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Speaker 1: And you know, I know this case hits you different.

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Speaker 1: We talked several days ago. Uh we even talked this morning,

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Speaker 1: so I know what this case means to you. So

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Speaker 1: I just appreciate it.

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Speaker 2: I'm gonna go hug my daughter right now. Amen.

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Speaker 3: You know that's all you can do, and you know,

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Speaker 3: be put some good into the world to fight this evil.

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Speaker 2: No one deserves it.