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Speaker 1: Brought to you by the reinvented two thousand twelve Camray.

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Speaker 1: It's ready. Are you welcome to stuff mom never told

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Speaker 1: you from house Stuff works dot com? Hold on, Welcome

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Speaker 1: to the podcast. This is Molly and I'm Kristen Christen.

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Speaker 1: A few weeks ago, we did an episode on human

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Speaker 1: trafficking and you talked about how you sent me pictures

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Speaker 1: of kittens or kittens doing adorable things, because I do

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Speaker 1: love that immensely, and a lot of our listeners showed

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Speaker 1: in and let us know about this site called zoo

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Speaker 1: borns dot com, which is where you see um baby

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Speaker 1: animals that are born in zoos. And we should clarify

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Speaker 1: that I sent you these photos for anyone who hasn't listened,

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Speaker 1: because you had to write the article and a super

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Speaker 1: depressing yeah on human trafficking, and it was incredibly depressing.

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Speaker 1: So we always said, as palate cleanser, look at pictures

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Speaker 1: with cats our listeners and let us know about zoo borns.

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Speaker 1: So I bring it up because we got another downer today,

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Speaker 1: uh female suicide bombers, and so I just want everyone

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Speaker 1: to know that zoo borns dot com exists. If you

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Speaker 1: need to look at some baby animals halfway through after

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Speaker 1: this midway do you know whatever? And to think those listeners,

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Speaker 1: so babiesoo animals to suicide bombers, yes, because a lot

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Speaker 1: of times when we hear about suicide bombers in the press,

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Speaker 1: it's typically mint. Yeah. But in recent years especially, there

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Speaker 1: has been a rise in the number of female terrorists

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Speaker 1: and female suicide bombers, and terrorists organizations are really starting

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Speaker 1: to um see the advantages, the very dark advantages of

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Speaker 1: using women, because when you have female suicide bombers, it

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Speaker 1: always gets more media attention. Um and you know, some

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Speaker 1: of these terrorists groups operate within communities that aren't known

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Speaker 1: for gender equality. Women are often second class citizens in

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Speaker 1: some of these countries and these groups. So it's kind

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Speaker 1: of interesting phenomenon to talk about because you know, people

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Speaker 1: have to one or why are these groups that are

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Speaker 1: otherwise so demeaning to women allowing women to do this?

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Speaker 1: Because you know, it's considered a great honor for a

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Speaker 1: man to undertake this mission to to be a suicide bomber,

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Speaker 1: and so uh, female suicide bombers, like some of our

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Speaker 1: Lady Killer episodes, it seems to go against everything we

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Speaker 1: know about this nurturing aspect of women and the like.

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Speaker 1: So everyone's got a theory as to why women uh

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Speaker 1: strop a bomb on themselves and try and hurt people.

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Speaker 1: So let's talk about why the suicide groups want, why

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Speaker 1: the terrorist groups want them, why the women might do it,

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Speaker 1: and the aftermath. So just to give you a little

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Speaker 1: idea about UM women women's roles in suicide bombing and

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Speaker 1: terrorist organizations. The first female suicide bomber was a seventeen

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Speaker 1: year old Palestinian girl who drove a truck into an

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Speaker 1: Israeli convoy in Lebanon in nineteen five. And since then

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Speaker 1: the number of suicide bombing attacks UM has only increased

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Speaker 1: and it is has been called the weapon of choice

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Speaker 1: today for terrorists organizations in particular UM. And since that

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Speaker 1: first bombing in UM, the number of women participating in

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Speaker 1: this has only gone up. Like I just said, for instance,

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Speaker 1: since two thousand to eight, eight Palestinian women have attempted

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Speaker 1: suicide bombings, although just eight of them have been successful.

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Speaker 1: And then in two thousand and ten we had the

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Speaker 1: really UM infamous I should say, I was about to

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Speaker 1: say famous UM, but there was the Moscow bombing and

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Speaker 1: it was carried out by two female terrorists from czech Nia,

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Speaker 1: the Black Widows. The Black Widows who are also involved

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Speaker 1: in UM. I think it was two thousand two when

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Speaker 1: they held that school hostage, so they're pretty well known

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Speaker 1: female terrorists ARM. But for UM, any terrorist group, a

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Speaker 1: suicide bombing, like you said, Kristen, can be a weapon

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Speaker 1: of choice because it's simple, it's low cost UM. You

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Speaker 1: kill a lot of people and cause a lot of

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Speaker 1: damage at one time, UM compared to other sort of

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Speaker 1: things you could carry out, And you don't have to

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Speaker 1: worry about the person involved giving away your secrets because

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Speaker 1: the success of a suicide mission depends on them dying UM.

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Speaker 1: And there's an immense impact. In the media. People always

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Speaker 1: want to cover this because it seems so insane that

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Speaker 1: someone would strop a bomb on themselves and the blow

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Speaker 1: people up. So, like Kristen said, if you use a woman,

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Speaker 1: you're going to have double the impact that you might

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Speaker 1: have just abandoned it because it's so unheard of and

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Speaker 1: you know, unconceivable, inconceivable. Yeah, And just to give you

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Speaker 1: an idea of how effective suicide bombing is UM, they're

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Speaker 1: now used by seventeen terrorists organizations in fourteen countries. In

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Speaker 1: terms of casualties, suicide attacks are the most efficient form

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Speaker 1: of terrorism. From two thousand one, suicide attacks accounting for

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Speaker 1: three percent of terrorists incidents but caused half of the

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Speaker 1: total deaths due to terrorism. UM and if that's UH,

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Speaker 1: setting aside what happened on nine eleven, so terrorist organizations

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Speaker 1: are using them. And these are organizations UM from the

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Speaker 1: Syrian Socialist National Party to the Tamil Tiger's sister group

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Speaker 1: which is the Birds of Paradise. We have the Black

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Speaker 1: Widows which we mentioned UM in Chechnia, UM, there are

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Speaker 1: female suicide bombers associated with hamas a lot of them.

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Speaker 1: And they're saying that these women might be better tools

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Speaker 1: because they're not being checked as thoroughly as the men are.

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Speaker 1: They might have a better chance of getting through a checkpoint.

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Speaker 1: They may have greater opportunity to get, you know, right

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Speaker 1: in the thick of things than perhaps email us. If

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Speaker 1: you're wearing a big long robe and a veil, it's

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Speaker 1: easy to hide weapons under there. So it's probably necessary

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Speaker 1: that a lot of groups adapt their UM terrorism guidelines

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Speaker 1: to account for growing numbers of women performing terrorist activities.

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Speaker 1: Right Statistically, a female suicide bomber will kill nine victims

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Speaker 1: compared to the five point five average victims that a

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Speaker 1: male suicide bomber will kill. These are very dark statistics,

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Speaker 1: we're talking borns dot com. But also, um, like you said,

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Speaker 1: what they can hide more under their clothes. For instance,

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Speaker 1: women in Muslim societies can hide twelve pounds of explosives

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Speaker 1: under under their garments. Um. And they also, like you said,

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Speaker 1: are also just less likely to be stopped by authorities,

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Speaker 1: although it seems like government organizations are now starting to

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Speaker 1: pay more and law enforcement agencies are starting to pay

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Speaker 1: more attention to women's rising roles in these terrorists organizations.

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Speaker 1: So who are these women? Do they differ in their

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Speaker 1: motives from male suisib bombers Because the thing you always

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Speaker 1: hear about a male suicide bombers he's been promised great

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Speaker 1: riches in the afterlife and seventy two virgins seventy two virgins.

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Speaker 1: Women do not get seventy two versions. Rather, there are

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Speaker 1: theories that they become the most beautiful of the seventy

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Speaker 1: two virgins, but they're only going to be there, uh

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Speaker 1: to please their husband. Basically, you get your husband in

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Speaker 1: the afterlife, you become really beautiful, and you don't have

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Speaker 1: to deal with children, and and you will still be

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Speaker 1: married to your husband. Yeah. And there are a number

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Speaker 1: of theories as to what motivates women in these societies

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Speaker 1: to um participate in suicide bombings. For instance, Maya Bloom

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Speaker 1: who wrote Bombshell the Many Faces of Female Terrorists. So

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Speaker 1: there are five reasons why women will participate with suicide bombings,

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Speaker 1: and which would be revenge, redemption, relationships, respect, and rape.

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Speaker 1: And she says that that relationship cause is the most potent.

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Speaker 1: A lot of times they will have some kind of

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Speaker 1: connection to either you know, enacting revenge for someone who's

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Speaker 1: been killed, a relative or a husband or brother who's

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Speaker 1: been killed, or they are involved with someone in the

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Speaker 1: terrorists organization. They have some kind of connection. But then

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Speaker 1: this aspect of redemption and rape um is also very

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Speaker 1: compelled calling because in these societies, suicide bombing might be

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Speaker 1: sort of their only alternative. Yeah, a lot of these

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Speaker 1: women sometimes when they look into their back stories, they

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Speaker 1: may have had, for an example, an affair, and they

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Speaker 1: will offer the choice to be you know, stoned to

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Speaker 1: death for the affair or to blow themselves up and

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Speaker 1: perhaps gain some redemption from their affair through greater glory

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Speaker 1: in terms of the terrorists cause. Um or they may

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Speaker 1: have been raped, which is seen as this huge act

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Speaker 1: of dishonor in these countries, and they can regain some

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Speaker 1: of their family's honor by by doing this. So they're saying,

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Speaker 1: there are always these motives that may have to deal

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Speaker 1: more with their with protected their family or honoring their family.

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Speaker 1: And other researchers are just like, maybe this is, you know,

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Speaker 1: a way we're attributing a sort of stereotypical female roles

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Speaker 1: to these women just to make ourselves feel better about it.

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Speaker 1: But Bloom is saying that, Um, you know, they're not

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Speaker 1: they're not coerced into this. This is a choice that

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Speaker 1: most of them do seem to make on their own,

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Speaker 1: either to regain their family's honor or to um, you know,

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Speaker 1: because they have really and ship to a known terrorist, right, Um,

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Speaker 1: instead of you know, just casting these girls as the

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Speaker 1: media often does, is you know, just naive under the

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Speaker 1: sway of male influence. Um. There's one estimate that female

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Speaker 1: suicide bombers will carry out attacks as part of a

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Speaker 1: military operation against an occupying force, and their motivation is

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Speaker 1: number one loyalty to a cause just like the men. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean originally I think that when you see a

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Speaker 1: female suicide bomber, you think that she can't have that

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Speaker 1: sort of devotion to a cause above a family member

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Speaker 1: or you know, above her children, because we have this

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Speaker 1: idea that motherhood kind of trumps all and and that's

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Speaker 1: not in Bluma saying that's not true. That these women

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Speaker 1: are just as motivated by the injustice as they see

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Speaker 1: and in some cases maybe even more motivated because they

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Speaker 1: are mothers. Um. Sometimes the female suicide bombers are more

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Speaker 1: likely to target UH centers where women and children are

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Speaker 1: hanging out because they think if my if I can't

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Speaker 1: have children, that I don't want my enemy to have children.

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Speaker 1: And so in some cases they can be more damaged

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Speaker 1: into the civilian public than a male suicide bomber. Is

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Speaker 1: so as UM, different researchers and different agencies try to

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Speaker 1: sort out who might be targeted, what women might be

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Speaker 1: targeted for suicide bombing recruitment. UM, there are some mixed findings,

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Speaker 1: you know, that indicate how little we really still know

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Speaker 1: about female suicide bombers. For instance, there was an Israeli

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Speaker 1: study looking at female suicide bomber recruits from two thousand

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Speaker 1: to to two thousand five, and it found that thirty

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Speaker 1: three were college graduates. And this is a huge contrast

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Speaker 1: to the population of male suicide bombers, who tend to

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Speaker 1: be very young and very uneducated, okay, and who for

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Speaker 1: that reason are more likely to get swept up into

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Speaker 1: this extremist cause. But then we go to another study

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Speaker 1: that's looking at terrorist organizations kind of across the across

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Speaker 1: the map, and it says that like male suicide bomber,

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Speaker 1: the females are also tend to be younger and uneducated.

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Speaker 1: For instance, the black widow, one of the black widows

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Speaker 1: um who carried out that Moscow transit bombing was seventeen. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: but so we still don't know, and I don't think

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Speaker 1: that will be able to boil down, you know, just

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Speaker 1: one one very basic profile of a suicide bomber. Obviously,

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Speaker 1: these women are all bringing in different types of baggage

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Speaker 1: to this very extreme um act. Right, if they were

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Speaker 1: easy to profile, then maybe we wouldn't have the problem. Right,

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Speaker 1: But that's sort of the depressing thing about this is

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Speaker 1: that these women do have all these different forms of

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Speaker 1: baggage be it a dead husband, or be it a

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Speaker 1: rape in their past. They're trying to uh get get

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Speaker 1: off the family slate. Or they may be poor, they

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Speaker 1: maybe middle class. The thing about female suicide members is

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Speaker 1: they are harder to classify than the males. Maybe, like

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Speaker 1: Christen said, the males tend to be young and uneducated,

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Speaker 1: and um, the women seem to have a lot more

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Speaker 1: complicated reasons for this. And it's interesting that even though

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Speaker 1: these female suicide bombers are putting themselves up destroying their bodies,

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Speaker 1: you know, killing themselves for this cause alongside men, they

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Speaker 1: still face, um, these sexist double standards within terrorist organizations.

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Speaker 1: For instance, UM, there was a male suicide bomber who

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Speaker 1: was interviewed in prison, obviously an unsuccessful male suicide bomber,

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Speaker 1: who told him that he was really angry that his

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Speaker 1: sister had tried to carry out a suicide bombing as

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Speaker 1: well after she got a divorce, because obviously that would

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Speaker 1: you know, the suside bombing would provide some kind of

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Speaker 1: redemption for this shameful divorce. But he said he was

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Speaker 1: really angry with it because he said, quote, a woman

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Speaker 1: must not expose her body, and when a woman blows

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Speaker 1: herself up. Not all parts of her body become tiny

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Speaker 1: bits of flesh. Yeah, so he was upset that perhaps

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Speaker 1: her flesh was being uh, I was bringing to son

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Speaker 1: of the family just by being littered in the street

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Speaker 1: after them blowing up by a bomb. And uh, like

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Speaker 1: he said, they don't ever rise to the top in

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Speaker 1: terms of group leadership. And this is sort of it

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Speaker 1: kind of reminds me of our Mob episode, a Mob episode, Kristen,

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Speaker 1: where you know, they keep talking about the glass ceiling

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Speaker 1: for female terrorists, for the glass ceiling for lady mobsters,

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Speaker 1: and you're like, is this a glass ceiling we need

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Speaker 1: to be worried about. But the fact of the matter

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Speaker 1: is that women are playing these really important roles. I

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Speaker 1: mean that sounds weird to say, but women are playing

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Speaker 1: are trying to get involved with these groups for whatever reason,

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Speaker 1: and despite the fact that they do tend to be

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Speaker 1: more deadly, they never get to the top of a

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Speaker 1: leadership because of rules about whether women can be involved

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Speaker 1: in terrorist leadership. Right, they think that there might be

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Speaker 1: some female leadership in um terrorists arms of Hamas, but

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Speaker 1: not in al Qaida. Actually, al Zawahi has publicly said

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Speaker 1: when he was asked about the highest rank, you know,

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Speaker 1: al Qaida held by a woman, he said that there

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Speaker 1: were no women in the group. Now he's backpedaled on

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Speaker 1: that a little bit. But even though there might not

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Speaker 1: be female leadership in al Qaida, that does not mean

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Speaker 1: that the male leaders do not use women to form alliances. Specifically,

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Speaker 1: they will marry off their daughters. For instance, um Assama

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Speaker 1: bin Ladon and mala Omar appear to be married to

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Speaker 1: each other's daughters, and that well that would have been

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Speaker 1: when Laden was still alive. But yeah, I mean it's

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Speaker 1: it's this backpedaling does seem to happen the more they

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Speaker 1: need recruits. So it's almost like maybe the sign that

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Speaker 1: they're using more women could be a sign that participation

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Speaker 1: among the men might be dwindling off, because they're saying

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Speaker 1: that one of the best ways to recruit more men

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Speaker 1: is to get a woman to do it, and it's

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Speaker 1: sort of like step up or using women did to

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Speaker 1: be doing this. So I don't know if eventually the

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Speaker 1: idea that more women are getting involved will be a

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Speaker 1: sign that some of these groups are are losing power

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Speaker 1: over the men, or or you know, I don't think

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Speaker 1: anyone can John any conclusion at this point except that

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Speaker 1: attacks by these female terrorists are on the rise. So,

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Speaker 1: like you said, moll Um, this is kind of a

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Speaker 1: tricky topic to discuss because it's not like we want

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Speaker 1: to praise these women for breaking from ceiling, breaking through

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Speaker 1: these sexist glass ceilings of suicide bombing. But it's still something.

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Speaker 1: It's it's something compelling for us to follow because because

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Speaker 1: of the whole like redemption factor, because of what it

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Speaker 1: says about UM sort of the state of global terrorism

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Speaker 1: and how it has evolved. Uh So, something to keep

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Speaker 1: an eye out on, and also something to keep an

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Speaker 1: eye out on. Two in the media portrayals of these

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Speaker 1: female suicide bombers, you know, painting them as he's just

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Speaker 1: psychologically weak, naive young girls. No, I mean they're they're

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Speaker 1: pretty vicious. There was one UM study talking about how

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Speaker 1: these women are trained and their train alongside the men.

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Speaker 1: Well I'll probably separate from the men, but trained in

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Speaker 1: the same way as men and taught very intricate ways

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Speaker 1: to hand the weaponry to build bomb security explosives. Uh So,

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Speaker 1: these are these aren't exactly wilting flowers we're dealing with.

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Speaker 1: So if you have any thoughts to share with us

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Speaker 1: about this, send them our way. It's mom stuff at

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Speaker 1: how stuff works dot com. And let's read an email. Well,

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Speaker 1: I have an email here um from someone who wants

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Speaker 1: to be be anonymous because the story might you know, set

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Speaker 1: off alarm bells for someone and it's about, uh the episode,

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Speaker 1: how could you not know you were pregnan until the

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Speaker 1: baby came? And this person writes, I'm a family physician

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Speaker 1: and I want to tell you my best story on

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Speaker 1: the subject. I do not want my name, city, etcetera

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Speaker 1: revealed for patient privacy reasons, and for that reason, we

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Speaker 1: will not even tell you when the incident occurred. However,

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Speaker 1: I assure you it is totally true. I was working

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Speaker 1: in the E R Ambulatory care area on a weekend

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Speaker 1: when a young woman presented with crampy abdominal pain. She

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Speaker 1: was attended by her mother. As part of the evaluation

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Speaker 1: of pain, I performed a pelvic exam. W was immediately

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Speaker 1: evident that she was in labor with a fully dilated

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Speaker 1: service and having labor pains. She was so far in

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Speaker 1: de labored we did not have time to move her

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Speaker 1: into the labor and delivery area of the hospital. But

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Speaker 1: we're only able to get a procedure trade with the

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Speaker 1: appropriate instruments just in time for the baby to crown.

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Speaker 1: I delivered with the baby and otherwise uneventful fashion, laying

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Speaker 1: it on the young woman's belly while trying the cord.

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Speaker 1: As we wrapped the baby and tried to hand it

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Speaker 1: to the new mother, she and her mother became irate,

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Speaker 1: stating that we were trying to trick them into taking

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Speaker 1: someone else's child, and they were not going to allow

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Speaker 1: this elaborate fraud we perpetuated on them just to get

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Speaker 1: them to care for someone else's unwanted child. They were

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Speaker 1: thoroughly convinced that we were trying to pawn off someone

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Speaker 1: else's child on them, and then we were neglecting to

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Speaker 1: address and treat the true cause of her abdominal pain,

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Speaker 1: insisting there was no way the child was probably possibly hers.

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Speaker 1: Isn't that crazy? Christen? Is quite a story. The woman

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Speaker 1: had to go to the the psychiatry word and we don't know.

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Speaker 1: That's as far as as our listener knows what happened. Well,

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Speaker 1: I hope that she and the baby are okay. Well

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Speaker 1: on that note, if you have any stories is in

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Speaker 1: our way? Mom's stuff at how stuff works dot Com

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Speaker 1: our blog during the week It's stuff Mom Never told

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