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Speaker 1: So the big question is this, how do investors like

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Speaker 1: us get access to the ideas, information, and most importantly,

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Speaker 1: the right people that give us the tools and information

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Speaker 1: we need to make informed and educated decisions to have success.

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Speaker 1: That is the question, and this podcast will give us

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Speaker 1: the answers. This is Mark Moss, your host. Let's get

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Speaker 1: this started. Welcome to another episode of the Market Disruptors podcast.

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Speaker 1: Today we are sitting down with Alta and Donate from

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Speaker 1: Ziliac Law. And she is a an attorney and she's

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Speaker 1: a professor. She works in antitrust, financial services, money laundering,

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Speaker 1: things like that, and we have a really interesting conversation.

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Speaker 1: We get into what's going on with the regulations with

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Speaker 1: finance shutting down to US customers, bit tricks and Poloniac

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Speaker 1: shutting off certain assets to US customers, What that means

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Speaker 1: for the US, what that means for the world. We

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Speaker 1: also get into further discuss stions on regulations, talking about

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Speaker 1: the US and China trade wars, what's going on with that,

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Speaker 1: how that could be proxy for other wars, and again

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Speaker 1: what that means for US and Chinese investors moving forward.

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Speaker 1: This is a very important conversation helps us to understand

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Speaker 1: what is happening now, but also what's happened in the future,

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Speaker 1: and as an investor, you need to be paying attention.

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Speaker 1: So let's jump right into this. All right, Welcome everybody

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Speaker 1: to the Market Disruptors Podcast. Today we are joined by

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Speaker 1: Alta Andoni with Ziliak Law. She is a an attorney

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Speaker 1: that focuses on financial services, money laundering, antitrust, and blockchain

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Speaker 1: technology stuff. She's also a professor at the Chicago Kent

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Speaker 1: College of Law, and so she's got this really unique

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Speaker 1: perspective on a bunch of different topics. There's so much

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Speaker 1: stuff we could talk about today. We'll try and keep

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Speaker 1: it short for you guys. But anyway, Alta, welcome to

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Speaker 1: the show. Thank you so much Mark for having me

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Speaker 1: here today. Yeah, awesome, I'm super excited about this. So

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Speaker 1: um so, so just kind of set this up. I

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Speaker 1: I kind of announced who you were, but why don't

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Speaker 1: you tell us a little bit about your background and

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Speaker 1: how you got involved into the crypto space and what

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Speaker 1: you're doing. Of course, of course I'd love to do that.

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Speaker 1: And uh so you mentioned that I'm an attorney. I'm

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Speaker 1: an attorney by training, as I always say, and I'm

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Speaker 1: also a professor and a junct professor of Chicago can

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Speaker 1: and professor for School of American Law at Chicago Ken

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Speaker 1: where a lecture on anti dress law, International business trans sections,

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Speaker 1: comparative Law. I do travel around the world because we

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Speaker 1: have all our branches around the world, and I love

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Speaker 1: to do this and UH UH meeting all the international

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Speaker 1: students and then they come back to Chicago, Kent and

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Speaker 1: UH finalize their studies in the LM in that specific

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Speaker 1: UH law area that they're going to graduate. I also

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Speaker 1: right now I am the head of blockchain practice at

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Speaker 1: Zelia Law, where I helped my client and kind of

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Speaker 1: brows this very into interesting industry and help them with

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Speaker 1: different areas on UH compliance with our securities law and

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Speaker 1: UH ky C and mL etcetera. I loved to work

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Speaker 1: in this space because I find it very interesting and

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Speaker 1: the way how I got involved we all have that

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Speaker 1: rabbit hole, as we UH call it. UH myself was

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Speaker 1: mostly on academic side because I love to research, and

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Speaker 1: obviously I heard about bitcoin very early. But then when

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Speaker 1: I when I read the Bitcoin paper, I was a

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Speaker 1: little bit skeptical about how much I mean, this virtual

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Speaker 1: currency can UH can achieve, you know, But then in

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Speaker 1: two thousand and seventeen, I lectured in China, and it

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Speaker 1: was quite interesting that when I was going out with

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Speaker 1: my students for lunches or dinners, like, I could hear

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Speaker 1: like everybody talk about bitcoin, and especially these old couples,

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Speaker 1: and I was like, since everyone is so excited about becoing,

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Speaker 1: definitely I have to explore this further because it looks

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Speaker 1: like something big is coming up for the more. In Chicago,

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Speaker 1: cant we have like different conferences on fintech and we

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Speaker 1: have like some great speakers coming each year. So that

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Speaker 1: was another area that kind of pushed me to explore

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Speaker 1: this industry a little bit further and to kind of

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Speaker 1: combine my previous experience in intellectual property and financial market

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Speaker 1: compliance together. And uh, that's why right now I'm talking

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Speaker 1: UM mostly concentrated and focusing more on crypto and blockchain technology. Great,

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Speaker 1: that's that's that's awesome. I'm curious you said when you

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Speaker 1: first UM read the white paper you were skeptical. Now,

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Speaker 1: were you skeptical of the technology or were you skeptical

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Speaker 1: of again mass adoption or were you skeptical of if

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Speaker 1: if regulated regulators whatever allow it to grow? What were

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Speaker 1: your skeptical. I was more and that is a great question.

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Speaker 1: Actually I was more scraped skeptical about the mass adoption.

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Speaker 1: And it's not that I want to state that I

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Speaker 1: was right, but even right now we don't have like

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Speaker 1: a mass adoption when it comes to crypto. So I

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Speaker 1: was like, and I tried to explain this, uh to

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Speaker 1: several people, like even in my own family, like my husband.

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Speaker 1: He's a technology guy, and he was in the moment

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Speaker 1: that I explained to him, he was not a big believer,

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Speaker 1: and and and and not only him, but you know,

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Speaker 1: crypto is quite an interesting concept for people, but you

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Speaker 1: really have to understand the technology behind it, and you

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Speaker 1: really have to understand how functions and what are like

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Speaker 1: some uh, some characteristics that really make this kind of

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Speaker 1: stand out. Well yes and no though, right, So, like

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Speaker 1: I think with any new technology, g first of all,

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Speaker 1: we have to realize it takes time and you have

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Speaker 1: to be patient in the beginning. The true believers they

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Speaker 1: want to know that. But um, you know, if you

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Speaker 1: look at the Internet, it it took you know, from

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Speaker 1: the darker days, you know, thirty years before it rich

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Speaker 1: reached adoption. And um, you're not anyone that was going

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Speaker 1: to use the um, the Internet was like, hey, you

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Speaker 1: can send an email, but you don't have to explain

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Speaker 1: how the computer digitizes that packet and plugs into an

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Speaker 1: Internet and sends the packets over a thing, and then

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Speaker 1: the computer opens those packets and puts it back. It like,

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Speaker 1: you don't explain that, And so I think that's where

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Speaker 1: people get hung up with the blockchain is like, oh,

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Speaker 1: let me explain how blockchain works and the different like

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Speaker 1: nobody cares, I mean, not not the not the mass adoption, right,

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Speaker 1: they just want to notice it works. I agree, But

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Speaker 1: how many people do we have right now that they

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Speaker 1: don't know how to use the Internet about? Well, I

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Speaker 1: mean we'll never get to a percent Like when you

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Speaker 1: look at technology cycles, I mean to get like se

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Speaker 1: adoption is pretty good, Um we have that? Do we

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Speaker 1: have that for the Internet right now? I mean, I'm

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Speaker 1: not trying to argue, but I do know that even

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Speaker 1: for I mean, this is always the counter argument that

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Speaker 1: it's kind of brought up for blockchain technology, and I

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Speaker 1: don't think that. I mean, obviously we have a much

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Speaker 1: more mass adoption for the Internet. But it's just interesting

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Speaker 1: Internet to see that so many people still don't know

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Speaker 1: what to use the internet out there, so obviously our

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Speaker 1: time when it comes to the crypto and the blockchain,

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Speaker 1: I say, it takes a couple of generations, you know,

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Speaker 1: like I still have, Like you know, obviously there's still

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Speaker 1: some grandmothers out there that don't use the Internet. But

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Speaker 1: then the kids, the grand kids today will never know

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Speaker 1: anything other than that, and so it kind of takes

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Speaker 1: a couple of generations sometimes to see a full adoption shift.

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Speaker 1: But anyway, that's a that's a great story that you

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Speaker 1: have and interesting how you were skeptical of that at first. Um,

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Speaker 1: now I know you have like this, uh, you know

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Speaker 1: this this kind of specialty and financial services and and

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Speaker 1: uh and and and whatnot. We were originally talking about

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Speaker 1: the big news that had happened a week ago. Now

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Speaker 1: it's kind of being with finance, and now it's kind

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Speaker 1: of being overshadowed a little bit by the news that

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Speaker 1: broke yesterday about Facebook. But I'm sticking to finance. Um,

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Speaker 1: they made a really big news now they're than like

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Speaker 1: the largest exchange in the world by volume, and they've

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Speaker 1: basically decided to get rid of US customers. What do

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Speaker 1: you think about that? Obviously, that was big news, even

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Speaker 1: though I I think like this week Facebook Face, Facebook

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Speaker 1: news was kind of bigger than finance. I love to

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Speaker 1: talk a little bit more about finance, and personally, I

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Speaker 1: was not surprised about this move from Vinance, And obviously

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Speaker 1: Finance was not the very first exchange kind of moving

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Speaker 1: with this restrictions on market availability because I think, uh,

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Speaker 1: and I hope the listeners recall that actually was bit

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Speaker 1: fin x uh. If I recall correctly, it was bitwin

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Speaker 1: x that began kind of distancing itself from the New

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Speaker 1: York users in two thousand seventeen, and they also bear

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Speaker 1: the New York customers and then US individual customers. I

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Speaker 1: think this was back into August of two thousand seventeen,

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Speaker 1: and then they kind of blocked or escalated this to

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Speaker 1: banning all US entities in August of two thousand eighteen.

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Speaker 1: So we have seen some signs out there, and I'm

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Speaker 1: not surprised by the Finance moves. Something that surprises me

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Speaker 1: is that, Okay, I think it was on John on

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Speaker 1: June one when they announced that their users, uh, they're

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Speaker 1: going to start this geo blocking policy to twenty nine countries. Uh.

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Speaker 1: And then they're starting I think July one, if I'm

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Speaker 1: not mistaken, But then on September twelve, they're claiming that

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Speaker 1: they're not going to accept any US users anymore. But

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Speaker 1: if you read like that kinda uh uh mmmm announcement

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Speaker 1: very carefully, they state that they're going to have apparently

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Speaker 1: Finance America is going to be launched at the same time.

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Speaker 1: So in my opinion, this was quite a very well

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Speaker 1: talked uh strategy or movement on their side. And and

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Speaker 1: then previously will So had bit recks. I think bit

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Speaker 1: Recks was like last Friday, if I'm not mistaken, and

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Speaker 1: it was like very late Friday, which is interesting, like

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Speaker 1: how can you advertise this market availability or changes in

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Speaker 1: your market market availability like on a very late Friday night,

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Speaker 1: because they I don't know if you saw that week

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Speaker 1: that they stated that they are following the same move

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Speaker 1: that I mean by Polly Necks, and Polly Necks decided

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Speaker 1: to block like trading for US customers on nine cryptoccurrencies

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Speaker 1: or so, so we have seen like so many of this.

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Speaker 1: It's something interesting was even I was not aware of

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Speaker 1: tax Exchange, are you like? That was interesting? Like tax

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Speaker 1: Exchange they terminated their operation completely on July six. I

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Speaker 1: mean obviously because of this regulatory uh kind of which

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Speaker 1: exchange tax? No, yeah, no, I just to catch everybody

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Speaker 1: up if you're if you haven't been paying attention to

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Speaker 1: the news. UM. Like I said, Finance, the largest exchange

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Speaker 1: in the world, has decided to get US users off.

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Speaker 1: But the previous largest exchanges, which at least in the

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Speaker 1: U S were bit Trax and Poloniacs, which used to

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Speaker 1: be major players in the space before Finance came up

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Speaker 1: and their US based And what they decided at the

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Speaker 1: same time as as alto same, is that they decided

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Speaker 1: to what they call geo fence or basically make certain

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Speaker 1: assets on their exchange UM not tradeable by US residents.

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Speaker 1: So the so the assets are still there and they're

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Speaker 1: still tradeable by people outside the US, but people inside

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Speaker 1: the US aren't able to trade those certain assets UM.

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Speaker 1: And then Binance, which is not a US company, just

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Speaker 1: decided to kick all US users off, similar to what

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Speaker 1: bit fin X has done. Now it's kind of different.

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Speaker 1: Do you have any thoughts onto why Binance wouldn't have

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Speaker 1: just um restricted access to certain assets by US A

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Speaker 1: residents similar to Bittricks or poloni X versus just kicking

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Speaker 1: everybody off and trying to start a completely different UM exchange. Uh.

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Speaker 1: I think that that's a great question mark I but

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Speaker 1: I think that uh Binance is kind of concentrated, mostly

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Speaker 1: especially lately, and kind of setting this industry standard. And

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Speaker 1: why am I saying that? I I mean, obviously I

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Speaker 1: follow CZ and I think that despite whatever other things him,

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Speaker 1: I think of finance, I think that he's a hard worker,

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Speaker 1: he's a smart guy, he's a visionary in this space.

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Speaker 1: But I did see a very interesting tweet from him,

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Speaker 1: UH that he mentioned that, UH, first of all, if

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Speaker 1: you are going to consider UM, I think someone kind

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Speaker 1: of asked him the question like why did you do this?

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Speaker 1: Like why did you uh kind of stand up? Why

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Speaker 1: didn't you not stand up to the US regulators? And

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Speaker 1: what's interesting because he mentioned that you have to read

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Speaker 1: the book The Starfish and the Spider, and I don't know.

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Speaker 1: And I kind of search that a little bit more

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Speaker 1: and I found out that he's pretty much referring to

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Speaker 1: this analogy that or he's contrasting this to the decentralized

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Speaker 1: companies and how decentralized companies kind of can change this ace. UH.

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Speaker 1: The spider and the starfish analogy re first pretty much

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Speaker 1: to the contrasting biological nature of this respective organism. You know,

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Speaker 1: so starfish having this decentralized neural structure and kind of

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Speaker 1: permitting this regeneration and so pretty much if you cut

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Speaker 1: uh if you cut off a spider's head, it dies,

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Speaker 1: but then if you cut off the starfish, legs grows,

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Speaker 1: you know what I mean. So use kind of very

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Speaker 1: interesting analogy in his perspective. So I kind of like that,

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Speaker 1: and I like to see these exchanges to be a

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Speaker 1: little bit more compliant in this space, and I'm very

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Speaker 1: happy to see that, especially from violence. And the other

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Speaker 1: thing is that, uh, not only they're concentrating most mostly

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Speaker 1: on this compliance in this space. But at the same time,

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Speaker 1: I hope that we're not going to have this feedback

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Speaker 1: like we got with nance. And what do I mean

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Speaker 1: by that, Like always we have like two camps in

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Speaker 1: this industry, and one or the first camp is, hey,

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Speaker 1: has this industry industry being sufficiently self regulated or actually

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Speaker 1: do we need a little bit more regulation, And of course,

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Speaker 1: like that's a very good question. But at the same time,

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Speaker 1: what sort of regulation or what sort of regulatory certainty

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Speaker 1: are these exchanges looking for Yeah, I'm just curious though,

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Speaker 1: like what that regulate regulation is? Right, So, um, what

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Speaker 1: we've seen again back to Batricks and Polonis, they've restricted

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Speaker 1: assets certain assets to US residents. But the list, the

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Speaker 1: list seems to be different across exchanges. So coin base

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Speaker 1: seems to have like their own list that they think

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Speaker 1: um of coins that are that are good Polonia x Batricks,

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Speaker 1: they seem to work off of different lists. Is that

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Speaker 1: is that true? And if so, why is that? I

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Speaker 1: think that's true. And I think that each and every

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Speaker 1: one of these exchanges, obviously they have their own legal

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Speaker 1: councils and this is not legal advice, but of course

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Speaker 1: that they get like different uh legal advice from their councils.

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Speaker 1: I mean, some of them are very conservative and some

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Speaker 1: of them know and I'm not saying that they know

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Speaker 1: the space much better than the other ones, but this

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Speaker 1: is one of those industries that you really have to

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Speaker 1: keep up to date. And UH, if we're going back

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Speaker 1: and to the reasons why these exchanges are doing this, like,

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Speaker 1: definitely there's some strong reasons because we have seen a

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Speaker 1: lot of more actions from our regulatory agencies, from our

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Speaker 1: UH regulatory bodies, like we had the statement on Framework

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Speaker 1: for Investment UH contract Analysis back in April of I

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Speaker 1: mean April of this year, we had UH. Furthermore and more,

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Speaker 1: as I said, like actions enforcement actions from the SEC again,

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Speaker 1: US Air Force, Baragon and other companies. We right now

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Speaker 1: we have the Financial Action Task Form and furthermore, I

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Speaker 1: don't know if our listeners are much aware of this,

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Speaker 1: but we had a recent guidance also from our US

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Speaker 1: Treasury Department, and I think lately they stated that it

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Speaker 1: takes I mean, they're taking this broader view when it

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Speaker 1: comes to their authority to regulation or to crypto businesses,

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Speaker 1: and definitely they're trying to bring a little bit more

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Speaker 1: civil uh civil actions and including anti money laundering actions

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Speaker 1: because prosecutors obviously they're proceeding with their criminal cases in

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Speaker 1: this space. So I think like we are kind of

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Speaker 1: tightening up our compliance and our regulatory space right now.

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Speaker 1: So that's why I think that these exchanges are feeling

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Speaker 1: the need to kind of be a little bit more compliant,

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Speaker 1: not a little bit more compliant, but kind of to

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Speaker 1: understand exactly that if they want to be compliant in

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Speaker 1: the United States, they really have to make sure that

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Speaker 1: they follow all the needed steps and comply with our

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Speaker 1: regulatory boddies or agency. And the problem is, as you're saying,

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Speaker 1: I guess, is that because there's no clear guidance, that's

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Speaker 1: why we're seeing a discrepancy in the coins or the

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Speaker 1: assets of projects that are being geo fence or blocking

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Speaker 1: US residents. Um so, I guess right, that's what you're saying.

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Speaker 1: So there's lack of guidance or lack of clarity, and

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Speaker 1: that's why some exchanges have some assets and some exchanges

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Speaker 1: have other assets. I agree on that, but we're not

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Speaker 1: going to have that clear guidance and we have judicial

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Speaker 1: decision or a little bit more of a formal SEC

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Speaker 1: rulemaking decision, right so for now obviously or expecting what's

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Speaker 1: gonna happen with SEC big kick, but right now we

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Speaker 1: don't have a little bit more guidance, uh as we

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Speaker 1: call it from a precedent. However, I mean, I like

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Speaker 1: the involvement of all the players in this in this industry,

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Speaker 1: and I like the fact that the SEC especially is

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Speaker 1: welcoming all this feedback from all the participants in this space.

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Speaker 1: And I think we all should appreciate that. I mean,

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Speaker 1: in every single event that one of the representative SEC

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Speaker 1: representatives is there, you do see that they do have

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Speaker 1: the intention to to help the people understand and how

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Speaker 1: to be complied in the space, and furthermore to invite

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Speaker 1: them in this dialogue. So I think that is very

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Speaker 1: important for all of us. Okay, good, UM, So let's

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Speaker 1: talk about what this means for the average person and

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Speaker 1: why they should even care about this news. So obviously,

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Speaker 1: if you're in the US, you're affected because now you're

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Speaker 1: being blocked out of certain things. I guess as an investor,

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Speaker 1: there's just because you're blocked out of Finance, which is

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Speaker 1: the largest exchange in the world. Um, A lot of

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Speaker 1: those assets you can still find on other exchanges to

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Speaker 1: buy are exchange for I suppose I think the ones

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Speaker 1: that are really affected by this the most are the traders.

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Speaker 1: And although I'm a holdler and I think people should

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Speaker 1: be investing for the long term, most of the market

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Speaker 1: is driven by speculation at this point. That's a new

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Speaker 1: technology cycles work, and so the traders are really going

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Speaker 1: to suffer because there's no liquidity on these other exchanges.

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Speaker 1: It's on bit tricks. So what do you think that means?

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Speaker 1: I guess in the short term or maybe even the

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Speaker 1: long term to US residents, are they just gonna be

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Speaker 1: missing out on this or do you think something's gonna

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Speaker 1: open up for them in the near future. I'm a

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Speaker 1: big believer and I'm not going to comment much of this,

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Speaker 1: but I think something is going to happen to open

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Speaker 1: up for them in the future. Uh. I mean, that's

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Speaker 1: my opinion that maybe I'm being awfully optimistic right now.

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Speaker 1: Mm hmm, yeah, yeah, hopefully, hopefully things find a way. Now.

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Speaker 1: You had mentioned earlier with with c Z talking about

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Speaker 1: the starfish and the spider, and really you're kind of

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Speaker 1: referring to decentralized systems, and so then that kind of

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Speaker 1: we're talking about exchanges. So of course that leads to

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Speaker 1: decentralized exchanges, which for years I've believed and stated that

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Speaker 1: I believe it's the most important piece of the entire

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Speaker 1: ecosystem because Bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies are designed to be

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Speaker 1: peer to peer, non custodio, non uh you know, without

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Speaker 1: counterparty risk, etcetera. And going to a centralized exchange basically

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Speaker 1: kills the whole thing. So I believe decentralized exchanges are

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Speaker 1: a big thing. Although they haven't really taken off because

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Speaker 1: of poor U I U X, poor liquid y, whatever.

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Speaker 1: But what do you see being in the future. I mean, obviously,

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Speaker 1: as you said, CZ talked about it, they are launching

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Speaker 1: their own descent realized exchange, but that essentralized exchange is

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Speaker 1: still basically a centralized exchange because they're still controlling access

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Speaker 1: like US residents can't um access that. So what do

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Speaker 1: you think czs comments and what do you think about

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Speaker 1: decentralized exchanges kind of moving forward? Uh, that is another

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Speaker 1: great question. And I'm going to go back to the

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Speaker 1: analogy that CZ used in history because, as I said,

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Speaker 1: I kind of this was an audiobook, Uh, the star

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Speaker 1: Fish and the Spider, And it's interesting that they mentioned there.

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Speaker 1: I don't know if you're aware of the MGM when

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Speaker 1: they were trying to crack down on the peer to

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Speaker 1: peer music website roxter and uh, and then I think

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Speaker 1: they want those lawsuits. And then other groups I think

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Speaker 1: was KASA and eMule kind of got uh. They they

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Speaker 1: surfaced out of this whole movement. So my point is

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Speaker 1: that I think that he's trying to rely mostly on

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Speaker 1: the smaller organization that are more like starfish and if

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Speaker 1: their limb is kind of uh severed, I mean it

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Speaker 1: to me, it looks like he's rely mostly on decentralized decentralization.

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Speaker 1: But the problem that I have with that is that

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Speaker 1: right now, even in the United States, when we go

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Speaker 1: back to the test of being sufficiently decentralized, I don't

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Speaker 1: think we're coming up with the right definition what is

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Speaker 1: sufficiently decentralized. When does that sufficiently decentralized happen? You know,

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Speaker 1: and unless we have and this is not only a

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Speaker 1: guidance from the SEC or from our regulators, but I

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Speaker 1: think that it's very important for some definitions in this

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Speaker 1: space to have a little bit more meaning from all

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Speaker 1: for all the participants. Even when it comes to the cryptocurrency,

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Speaker 1: what is cryptocurrency? Well, I think I think we have

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Speaker 1: a perfect example of what is decentralized right now today,

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Speaker 1: right with with Facebook Libra start announcing that they're launching

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Speaker 1: their coin, and within the same day you have governments

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Speaker 1: all around the world saying, no, you're not stop that. Right, Um,

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Speaker 1: nobody's gonna tell Bitcoin to stop that because there's no

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Speaker 1: one to tell. Who are they going to tell? Right?

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Speaker 1: I think that's a perfect illustration of what is decentralized

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Speaker 1: and so, uh, when I talk about a decentralized exchange,

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Speaker 1: I mean I would think about it in the same way,

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Speaker 1: which is, uh, is there somebody that can be squeezed

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Speaker 1: or leaned on to stop it? Or is it decentralized

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Speaker 1: enough that it can run on its own? But do

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Speaker 1: we have that right now? Uh? Not in a good way.

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Speaker 1: I think we need it, and that's what I'm saying.

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Speaker 1: I think we need it, And it seemed like that's

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Speaker 1: maybe what CZ was referring to. I didn't hear his

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Speaker 1: comment or have I read the book, but um, I know,

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Speaker 1: like I said, they they're coming out with a decentralized exchange.

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Speaker 1: But what's decentralized about it? If it's still centrally controlled,

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Speaker 1: I'm still facing counterparty risk. Um, it can still be

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Speaker 1: leaned and squeezed, etcetera. I guess maybe you know. So anyway,

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Speaker 1: I think there's this future where we do have that.

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Speaker 1: But I guess what's your perspective on that based off

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Speaker 1: of regulators and k y C, A m L and

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Speaker 1: what regulators want to do to squeeze these things? I mean,

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Speaker 1: do you see a future where we have a truly

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Speaker 1: decentralized exchange. I personally don't see that. I mean I

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Speaker 1: would hope that, uh, we'll have a little bit more

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Speaker 1: uh not only forcement actions, but the more we see

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Speaker 1: as far as definitions, I think that's going to be

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Speaker 1: more helpful to us. But I don't think that's going

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Speaker 1: to happen anytime in the near future. So maybe I'm

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Speaker 1: a little bit pessimistic on that, but it would be

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Speaker 1: very nice for this industry to kind of have something

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Speaker 1: very straightforward, especially covering this decentralization concept. Typically like to

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Speaker 1: talk about facts, but I want to dig into this

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Speaker 1: a little bit of opinion here, just because I'm curious. Um.

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Speaker 1: So obviously all these regulations go into you know, control

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Speaker 1: and and uh tracking and uh obviously they use k

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Speaker 1: y C A m l A m l ANTI money laundering, right,

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Speaker 1: and and everyone's so concerned about money laundering because of terrorism.

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Speaker 1: But it really has only been about the last maybe

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Speaker 1: thirty years that they've been able to really track this.

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Speaker 1: I mean, we were in a cash world. You know,

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Speaker 1: we've seen time and time again, whether that be you know,

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Speaker 1: under under the Obama um, under the Obama campaign, you know,

430
00:26:40,080 --> 00:26:43,280
Speaker 1: sending hundreds of millions of dollars to Iran and cash

431
00:26:43,359 --> 00:26:47,359
Speaker 1: on an airplane or whatever. I mean that that's terrorism.

432
00:26:47,400 --> 00:26:49,600
Speaker 1: And we've seen the banks being fined for billions of

433
00:26:49,640 --> 00:26:53,440
Speaker 1: billions dollars transactions. UM. Do you do you think this

434
00:26:53,520 --> 00:26:57,560
Speaker 1: is a fight that uh is necessary or is it

435
00:26:57,600 --> 00:27:00,320
Speaker 1: more just like is it is it really a active

436
00:27:00,359 --> 00:27:02,800
Speaker 1: in fighting terrorism and doing what they wanted to do

437
00:27:02,920 --> 00:27:06,600
Speaker 1: or is it really just about control? I think it's

438
00:27:06,720 --> 00:27:09,679
Speaker 1: very I mean, definitely it's very important to fight terrorism,

439
00:27:09,760 --> 00:27:14,400
Speaker 1: but I just kind of reliable before on both like

440
00:27:14,440 --> 00:27:19,040
Speaker 1: even to kind of establish that control. UH. And this

441
00:27:19,200 --> 00:27:22,640
Speaker 1: is more of a political approach, I would say, more

442
00:27:22,720 --> 00:27:27,560
Speaker 1: than ah, you know, compliance or regulatory approach and U.

443
00:27:28,000 --> 00:27:31,119
Speaker 1: But it's it's it's interesting to see how this is

444
00:27:31,160 --> 00:27:34,600
Speaker 1: going to move on forward. Yeah, I mean it really then.

445
00:27:34,880 --> 00:27:36,880
Speaker 1: You know the thing with the thing with bitcoin that's

446
00:27:37,080 --> 00:27:41,480
Speaker 1: so interesting is it's just it's multidisciplinary. And you, being

447
00:27:41,520 --> 00:27:43,520
Speaker 1: a professor, I'm sure you get it more than most,

448
00:27:43,560 --> 00:27:47,080
Speaker 1: but you, I mean, you have to understand technology, you

449
00:27:47,119 --> 00:27:49,280
Speaker 1: have to understand money, you have to understand banking, you

450
00:27:49,320 --> 00:27:52,359
Speaker 1: have unerstand economics, you have to understand philosophy, right, you

451
00:27:52,359 --> 00:27:54,480
Speaker 1: have to understand human incentives. You have to understand all

452
00:27:54,560 --> 00:27:57,440
Speaker 1: these things to really get it, which is why I'm

453
00:27:57,480 --> 00:28:01,719
Speaker 1: super fascinated by it. Um, And so yeah, always, and

454
00:28:01,760 --> 00:28:05,360
Speaker 1: I'm sorry for interrupting it. Like doesn't every like when

455
00:28:05,400 --> 00:28:08,879
Speaker 1: I talk about especially the bitgoing white paper and then

456
00:28:09,119 --> 00:28:12,200
Speaker 1: the books, and I mean, I'm sure you're very much

457
00:28:12,240 --> 00:28:18,320
Speaker 1: aware of Silk Road and stil Crowd did so. The

458
00:28:18,800 --> 00:28:22,760
Speaker 1: majority of the people, in my opinion, who get involved

459
00:28:22,760 --> 00:28:26,800
Speaker 1: in this space or who just starts, who just start

460
00:28:26,840 --> 00:28:31,679
Speaker 1: getting involved in this space. I think that's especially for myself,

461
00:28:31,680 --> 00:28:34,840
Speaker 1: Like that's the very first question that I get from

462
00:28:34,880 --> 00:28:39,160
Speaker 1: these people that hey, but Silk Road, what was the purpose?

463
00:28:39,320 --> 00:28:42,960
Speaker 1: Like what were they doing? And why are you in

464
00:28:43,000 --> 00:28:47,600
Speaker 1: this industry so to speak? And it's interesting to do,

465
00:28:47,800 --> 00:28:51,280
Speaker 1: I mean, to get that sort of feedback. Well, then

466
00:28:51,320 --> 00:28:53,520
Speaker 1: you start, I mean, yeah, then you start getting into philosophy,

467
00:28:53,520 --> 00:28:55,600
Speaker 1: and then you start getting into politics of course, right,

468
00:28:55,680 --> 00:28:58,200
Speaker 1: so we can get into those who I don't want

469
00:28:58,240 --> 00:29:02,040
Speaker 1: to dive too deep into those rabbit holes. But overall, um,

470
00:29:02,120 --> 00:29:05,240
Speaker 1: you know, I I just kind of with big when

471
00:29:05,240 --> 00:29:07,880
Speaker 1: you lean towards Austrian economics, free markets, and then that

472
00:29:08,040 --> 00:29:10,800
Speaker 1: leads more like free free politics, and then more like

473
00:29:10,880 --> 00:29:14,040
Speaker 1: libertarian views, and like if I'm not hurting you, then

474
00:29:14,080 --> 00:29:17,040
Speaker 1: what's what and then what's the difference. And you know,

475
00:29:17,240 --> 00:29:21,560
Speaker 1: obviously a lot of people, including myself, have a problem

476
00:29:21,600 --> 00:29:24,840
Speaker 1: with anybody, especially the state, telling me what I can

477
00:29:25,000 --> 00:29:26,959
Speaker 1: put in my body or what I can't put in

478
00:29:26,960 --> 00:29:29,120
Speaker 1: my body, forcing me to put stuff in my body,

479
00:29:29,560 --> 00:29:31,560
Speaker 1: or making illegal for me not to put like that's

480
00:29:31,640 --> 00:29:34,680
Speaker 1: that's my body, Like who are you like? So? And

481
00:29:34,680 --> 00:29:37,560
Speaker 1: and we can look at every war the government has led,

482
00:29:37,560 --> 00:29:40,520
Speaker 1: whether that be the war on poverty, the war hunt terrorism,

483
00:29:40,800 --> 00:29:43,360
Speaker 1: the war on drugs, They've all failed, and they've all

484
00:29:43,400 --> 00:29:47,920
Speaker 1: made problems worse. And that's a whole another topic or discussion. Uh.

485
00:29:48,000 --> 00:29:50,800
Speaker 1: And so maybe I shouldn't even open I shouldn't even

486
00:29:50,800 --> 00:29:55,600
Speaker 1: open that door, maybe because that's not what we're really

487
00:29:55,600 --> 00:29:58,640
Speaker 1: talking about. But it leads to that, just because we're

488
00:29:58,640 --> 00:30:01,719
Speaker 1: talking about regulations. And and I've seen, you know, I've

489
00:30:01,760 --> 00:30:04,800
Speaker 1: seen comments from like Christine le Guard or you know,

490
00:30:04,840 --> 00:30:06,440
Speaker 1: people from the I m F and the B I

491
00:30:06,680 --> 00:30:09,840
Speaker 1: S and and I quoted her on a Twitter post

492
00:30:10,200 --> 00:30:12,640
Speaker 1: and it was her quote and I don't know it exactly,

493
00:30:12,640 --> 00:30:18,840
Speaker 1: but basically she said, we must stop innovation because it

494
00:30:19,080 --> 00:30:23,360
Speaker 1: threatens our stability. And I'm just like, wait, what, like,

495
00:30:24,600 --> 00:30:26,680
Speaker 1: did she just say that? And yes she did. And

496
00:30:26,720 --> 00:30:30,160
Speaker 1: that's what these regulators want to do is stop innovation.

497
00:30:30,200 --> 00:30:32,400
Speaker 1: That was her quote. Um, and I just I just

498
00:30:32,520 --> 00:30:35,840
Speaker 1: I don't like that. I don't like seeing regular regulations

499
00:30:36,240 --> 00:30:41,160
Speaker 1: being used, uh, you know, to entrenched positions by you know,

500
00:30:42,040 --> 00:30:45,320
Speaker 1: legacy legacy systems or whatever. Right, we need to innovate,

501
00:30:45,360 --> 00:30:47,960
Speaker 1: we need to create more freedom, create more prosperity, create

502
00:30:48,000 --> 00:30:51,240
Speaker 1: more equality. And uh So anyway, that's where I started.

503
00:30:51,240 --> 00:30:53,240
Speaker 1: All of a sudden, it goes to that philosophy political

504
00:30:53,240 --> 00:30:56,760
Speaker 1: debate about regulations. Um are they Are they doing more

505
00:30:56,800 --> 00:30:59,160
Speaker 1: harm than good? Uh? You know, so to speak, And

506
00:31:00,200 --> 00:31:02,280
Speaker 1: I agree with you. But at the same time, I

507
00:31:02,320 --> 00:31:05,680
Speaker 1: feel like Europe has completely different approach to our innovation.

508
00:31:05,760 --> 00:31:09,160
Speaker 1: And I'm not saying that they're supporting innovation less or more,

509
00:31:09,800 --> 00:31:12,160
Speaker 1: but I think here in the United States, even though

510
00:31:12,200 --> 00:31:17,040
Speaker 1: we have more conservative regulatory kind of framework and compliance,

511
00:31:17,440 --> 00:31:21,280
Speaker 1: I think that our regulators at least they're not stating

512
00:31:21,320 --> 00:31:24,480
Speaker 1: that like they're trying to understand you have haster beers.

513
00:31:24,560 --> 00:31:27,840
Speaker 1: Like every time she's been so much supportive of this,

514
00:31:29,320 --> 00:31:33,440
Speaker 1: so she's amazing and I love every time, Like, uh,

515
00:31:33,440 --> 00:31:37,760
Speaker 1: it's not only her arguments, but if you hear to UH,

516
00:31:37,800 --> 00:31:41,360
Speaker 1: if you listen to her speeches, especially recently, like you

517
00:31:41,440 --> 00:31:45,400
Speaker 1: understand that our regulators at least they're trying to understand

518
00:31:45,800 --> 00:31:48,720
Speaker 1: not only the technology, which I'm sure like by now

519
00:31:49,040 --> 00:31:51,480
Speaker 1: they have a better understanding, but at the same time

520
00:31:51,480 --> 00:31:55,520
Speaker 1: they're trying to help us all navigate this industry. And

521
00:31:55,640 --> 00:31:58,720
Speaker 1: I really appreciate that. And I think that Europe has

522
00:31:58,720 --> 00:32:03,080
Speaker 1: a completely different approach. And I do see that since

523
00:32:03,160 --> 00:32:05,880
Speaker 1: I lecture a lot in Europe and I left her

524
00:32:05,880 --> 00:32:08,560
Speaker 1: into a dress law so and re dress law in

525
00:32:08,840 --> 00:32:12,960
Speaker 1: US is competition law in Europe. So definitely I can

526
00:32:13,040 --> 00:32:17,680
Speaker 1: see exactly those different approaches or their or those point

527
00:32:17,720 --> 00:32:20,640
Speaker 1: of views from where these regulators are coming from. And

528
00:32:20,680 --> 00:32:22,880
Speaker 1: you can see that even the way how they approach

529
00:32:23,320 --> 00:32:28,240
Speaker 1: our biggest companies, like you know, the actions And I

530
00:32:28,240 --> 00:32:30,400
Speaker 1: don't want to go into it, Peters, because then I'm

531
00:32:30,400 --> 00:32:33,320
Speaker 1: going to talk one more hour here, but I'm sure

532
00:32:33,360 --> 00:32:36,200
Speaker 1: you're very much aware of the actions against Google and

533
00:32:36,320 --> 00:32:40,240
Speaker 1: why they did that. And at the same time, I'm

534
00:32:40,280 --> 00:32:43,360
Speaker 1: a big believer that, I mean, even though these companies

535
00:32:43,400 --> 00:32:46,080
Speaker 1: are growing and growing, but that I mean, they're providing

536
00:32:46,120 --> 00:32:50,760
Speaker 1: some very great benefits for our customers, for for I

537
00:32:50,800 --> 00:32:54,400
Speaker 1: mean for for you and myself, and I think that

538
00:32:54,600 --> 00:32:59,240
Speaker 1: is very important. So uh, it's I think that the

539
00:32:59,360 --> 00:33:03,440
Speaker 1: perspective if that or the way how they analyze the

540
00:33:03,600 --> 00:33:07,800
Speaker 1: strategies and this industry is, especially when it comes to innovation,

541
00:33:08,400 --> 00:33:13,240
Speaker 1: is quite different. I agree, that's some good stuff. I

542
00:33:13,800 --> 00:33:16,640
Speaker 1: want to talk about where this then keeps leading us

543
00:33:16,720 --> 00:33:19,040
Speaker 1: if we keep wanting to keep diving into the rabbit hole.

544
00:33:19,080 --> 00:33:22,959
Speaker 1: And so, um, I know you've talked a lot about, uh,

545
00:33:23,360 --> 00:33:25,440
Speaker 1: about some of these trade wars that are going on

546
00:33:25,720 --> 00:33:28,600
Speaker 1: and where we are with uh, you know, the US

547
00:33:28,760 --> 00:33:31,800
Speaker 1: versus China, et cetera. And it gets out of it

548
00:33:31,800 --> 00:33:33,560
Speaker 1: gets out of crypto a little bit, but it doesn't

549
00:33:33,600 --> 00:33:36,640
Speaker 1: because you know, crypto is about the financial system and

550
00:33:36,720 --> 00:33:38,920
Speaker 1: so the trade wars are obviously a big piece of that.

551
00:33:39,760 --> 00:33:42,240
Speaker 1: And so I know you've written extensively about that. Maybe

552
00:33:42,240 --> 00:33:44,640
Speaker 1: just give us a high level, uh kind of overview

553
00:33:44,680 --> 00:33:46,240
Speaker 1: of what what you see going on, what you've been

554
00:33:46,280 --> 00:33:49,160
Speaker 1: talking about there, of course, and I would love to

555
00:33:49,160 --> 00:33:53,040
Speaker 1: cover this since the G twenty is coming the G

556
00:33:53,200 --> 00:33:57,560
Speaker 1: twenty meetings is coming up. Next week. So obviously for

557
00:33:57,640 --> 00:34:01,160
Speaker 1: our listeners, I'm sure they're very much or that President

558
00:34:01,240 --> 00:34:04,920
Speaker 1: Trump decided to meet with the China president. But I

559
00:34:04,960 --> 00:34:08,799
Speaker 1: think it's going to be uh somewhat beneficial for our

560
00:34:08,840 --> 00:34:11,480
Speaker 1: listeners if I just mentioned a little bit or I

561
00:34:11,520 --> 00:34:15,040
Speaker 1: talk a little bit about the timeline in the US

562
00:34:15,239 --> 00:34:20,680
Speaker 1: China trade word, because there are some very important dates

563
00:34:20,840 --> 00:34:24,680
Speaker 1: that I think kind of emphasize what's going on or

564
00:34:24,719 --> 00:34:28,719
Speaker 1: what's happening right now. Uh? Is that okay? If I

565
00:34:28,760 --> 00:34:35,040
Speaker 1: just walk our listeners through this timeline? Yeah? Please? So? Uh,

566
00:34:35,200 --> 00:34:38,280
Speaker 1: I mean, I think it started back in two thousand

567
00:34:38,360 --> 00:34:44,240
Speaker 1: and seventeen, if I'm not mistaken, when our United States

568
00:34:44,360 --> 00:34:50,680
Speaker 1: Trade representative they are did this uh investigation into the

569
00:34:50,800 --> 00:34:55,239
Speaker 1: unfair Chinese trade practices. Of course they were pursuing to

570
00:34:55,280 --> 00:34:58,840
Speaker 1: our Section three zero one of the Trade Act of

571
00:34:59,120 --> 00:35:03,040
Speaker 1: nineties seven four. Then on March of two thousand and eighteen,

572
00:35:03,480 --> 00:35:07,360
Speaker 1: we had this big report from the United States Trade

573
00:35:07,400 --> 00:35:11,520
Speaker 1: Representatives stating all this umpaire practices, and that was the

574
00:35:11,880 --> 00:35:16,680
Speaker 1: reason why on July two thousand and eighteen, we had

575
00:35:16,840 --> 00:35:22,680
Speaker 1: United States imposing the tariffs on thirty billion of Chinese imports.

576
00:35:22,719 --> 00:35:25,720
Speaker 1: So that was kind of sort of the first movement,

577
00:35:26,160 --> 00:35:28,960
Speaker 1: and after the United States imposed those stairs on this

578
00:35:29,080 --> 00:35:33,520
Speaker 1: thirty billion of Chinese imports. Then I think that it

579
00:35:33,719 --> 00:35:39,359
Speaker 1: was back on August two thousand and eighteen that Chinese

580
00:35:39,440 --> 00:35:43,160
Speaker 1: kind of retaliated with darifs on the sixteen billion of

581
00:35:43,600 --> 00:35:47,439
Speaker 1: so of US imports. So this was like a back

582
00:35:47,480 --> 00:35:51,719
Speaker 1: and forth and back and forth retaliation strategy. And then

583
00:35:51,760 --> 00:35:56,400
Speaker 1: of September of two thousand and eighteen, again United States

584
00:35:56,400 --> 00:35:59,919
Speaker 1: imposed these arifs on I think two hundred and bill

585
00:36:00,080 --> 00:36:04,160
Speaker 1: enough Chinese imports. So obviously you can see the impact

586
00:36:04,280 --> 00:36:07,880
Speaker 1: that this are going to have, I mean, in between

587
00:36:07,920 --> 00:36:13,879
Speaker 1: both countries. But I think recently, especially this week, I

588
00:36:13,920 --> 00:36:17,799
Speaker 1: hope that our listeners, I mean um are very much

589
00:36:17,840 --> 00:36:22,080
Speaker 1: aware of the China US radewar because there's been so

590
00:36:22,200 --> 00:36:27,560
Speaker 1: much happening, and especially the companies, the big companies in

591
00:36:27,600 --> 00:36:32,040
Speaker 1: the United States, they started filing this uh I think

592
00:36:32,120 --> 00:36:37,240
Speaker 1: yesterday was the HP, Intel and Microsoft and they joined

593
00:36:37,280 --> 00:36:41,719
Speaker 1: this movement to oppose the tramp tariffs. And this was

594
00:36:41,800 --> 00:36:46,600
Speaker 1: for laptop computers, this was for tablets because these are

595
00:36:46,640 --> 00:36:50,399
Speaker 1: going to be among those three hundred and billion tariffs

596
00:36:50,440 --> 00:36:55,080
Speaker 1: in Chinese goods. And then we had another filing from

597
00:36:55,120 --> 00:36:59,160
Speaker 1: the book publishers. I think I saw this yesterday. I

598
00:36:59,200 --> 00:37:02,680
Speaker 1: think their claiming that they're imploring the President Trumps to

599
00:37:02,800 --> 00:37:06,360
Speaker 1: not impose the Bible tax, they call that the Bible tax,

600
00:37:06,960 --> 00:37:11,520
Speaker 1: because this proposed tariff is going to impact also the China,

601
00:37:12,000 --> 00:37:15,160
Speaker 1: I mean Chinese goods, and is going to include the

602
00:37:15,239 --> 00:37:19,399
Speaker 1: printed materials in this Chinese good My point is that

603
00:37:20,160 --> 00:37:25,720
Speaker 1: I am very much optimistic at least about the fact

604
00:37:25,800 --> 00:37:31,080
Speaker 1: that uh, this administration is considering the hearing there his

605
00:37:31,680 --> 00:37:35,400
Speaker 1: hearing ceremony for our listeners if they want to know

606
00:37:35,440 --> 00:37:37,960
Speaker 1: a little bit more about that, and I think it started,

607
00:37:38,480 --> 00:37:41,880
Speaker 1: it's going through June twenty five, So for people that

608
00:37:42,080 --> 00:37:44,840
Speaker 1: want to comment on that, I think there must be

609
00:37:45,000 --> 00:37:48,400
Speaker 1: link and the impact that this is going to have

610
00:37:48,560 --> 00:37:56,160
Speaker 1: in our uh us UH economy, I think that, I mean,

611
00:37:56,239 --> 00:37:59,680
Speaker 1: definitely we see a little bit of impact, but I

612
00:37:59,800 --> 00:38:02,040
Speaker 1: think in that probably China and I was going to

613
00:38:02,080 --> 00:38:05,560
Speaker 1: see a bit more impact. And from my inside sources there,

614
00:38:06,400 --> 00:38:10,440
Speaker 1: uh they mentioned that there is sort of this uncertainty

615
00:38:10,680 --> 00:38:15,680
Speaker 1: in the space, and obviously you have many of major

616
00:38:16,040 --> 00:38:20,080
Speaker 1: manufacturers kind of moving out of China because of this

617
00:38:20,320 --> 00:38:25,080
Speaker 1: China tradewark policy. But I hope that during this G

618
00:38:25,239 --> 00:38:29,320
Speaker 1: twenty meet, hopefully are a president and the Chinese president

619
00:38:29,360 --> 00:38:32,120
Speaker 1: are going to be able to work this out. Why

620
00:38:32,120 --> 00:38:35,160
Speaker 1: do you think the average person or I should say

621
00:38:35,160 --> 00:38:39,160
Speaker 1: not the average person, but why does the investor care? Why? Why?

622
00:38:39,200 --> 00:38:41,239
Speaker 1: Why would why has an investor do I need to

623
00:38:41,239 --> 00:38:42,799
Speaker 1: be paying attention to this? And what am I looking

624
00:38:42,880 --> 00:38:46,120
Speaker 1: the investor war in the United States or in China? Well,

625
00:38:46,160 --> 00:38:48,160
Speaker 1: I guess either. I mean I invest in both, and

626
00:38:48,280 --> 00:38:49,880
Speaker 1: I'm in the United States, but I invest in the

627
00:38:49,960 --> 00:38:52,279
Speaker 1: China as well. But why do I care about this?

628
00:38:53,239 --> 00:38:55,560
Speaker 1: If you I mean, if you're an investor in China,

629
00:38:55,760 --> 00:38:58,920
Speaker 1: obviously you're going to feel this because obviously, I mean,

630
00:38:59,080 --> 00:39:02,360
Speaker 1: the prices, the manufacturing prices are going to be higher,

631
00:39:02,719 --> 00:39:06,400
Speaker 1: and no wonder especially I heard that a lot of Japanese,

632
00:39:06,440 --> 00:39:11,120
Speaker 1: many manufacturers, they're moving their plans outside China. So even

633
00:39:11,120 --> 00:39:14,160
Speaker 1: though I mean that might be a little bit impacted

634
00:39:14,280 --> 00:39:18,600
Speaker 1: from different other political reasons, because I think that Japanese

635
00:39:18,600 --> 00:39:21,960
Speaker 1: they always have this sort of law for United States

636
00:39:22,040 --> 00:39:25,080
Speaker 1: for President Trump, and I don't want to go into politics,

637
00:39:25,160 --> 00:39:29,480
Speaker 1: but I mean definitely, I mean, right now we can

638
00:39:29,520 --> 00:39:32,759
Speaker 1: see exactly what president did a President Trump did in

639
00:39:32,840 --> 00:39:36,720
Speaker 1: relation to North Korea and how I mean he's handling

640
00:39:36,880 --> 00:39:40,399
Speaker 1: this whole trade war with China. My point is that

641
00:39:40,440 --> 00:39:43,239
Speaker 1: definitely that is going to impact you as an investor

642
00:39:43,320 --> 00:39:46,520
Speaker 1: because because it's going to go back to the pricing

643
00:39:46,680 --> 00:39:48,880
Speaker 1: and it's going to be back to I mean to

644
00:39:49,120 --> 00:39:51,239
Speaker 1: two years, it's gonna go back to profit. So the

645
00:39:51,360 --> 00:39:54,759
Speaker 1: prices go up, companies become less profitable, they missed their

646
00:39:54,760 --> 00:39:57,080
Speaker 1: earnings reports, and the stock tumbles down. We've already seen

647
00:39:57,080 --> 00:39:59,480
Speaker 1: that in the United States when this really was heating

648
00:39:59,560 --> 00:40:01,200
Speaker 1: up a month or two ago, we saw the stocks

649
00:40:01,239 --> 00:40:04,319
Speaker 1: take a tumble. Um. So that's that's that's something that

650
00:40:04,560 --> 00:40:06,799
Speaker 1: as an investor you should be paying attention to just

651
00:40:06,880 --> 00:40:10,240
Speaker 1: because it really can affect the profitability, which in effects

652
00:40:10,239 --> 00:40:13,440
Speaker 1: the share price and etcetera. Thinking addition, if you're invested

653
00:40:13,480 --> 00:40:16,560
Speaker 1: into China, UM and jobs and factories are moving out

654
00:40:16,640 --> 00:40:18,720
Speaker 1: of China, that's definitely something that you should be aware

655
00:40:18,719 --> 00:40:22,200
Speaker 1: of as well. Um. I'm curious, and again I guess

656
00:40:22,239 --> 00:40:25,719
Speaker 1: maybe getting into some more opinion, but um, have you

657
00:40:25,920 --> 00:40:30,280
Speaker 1: been seeing how China, Russia and Iran have been trading

658
00:40:30,600 --> 00:40:35,680
Speaker 1: oil outside of the US dollar. Yes, I've seen that. Yeah,

659
00:40:35,840 --> 00:40:39,840
Speaker 1: So I'm curious, um, if you want to, if you

660
00:40:39,840 --> 00:40:43,239
Speaker 1: want to jump on this grenade. But you know, the US,

661
00:40:43,360 --> 00:40:48,120
Speaker 1: the US dollar obviously right there, what's that you just

662
00:40:48,400 --> 00:40:51,360
Speaker 1: warned me right there? Yeah, so that you know, the

663
00:40:51,440 --> 00:40:54,000
Speaker 1: US dollar uses it's its power as a world reserve

664
00:40:54,040 --> 00:40:57,000
Speaker 1: currency to to issue sanctions across countries, right, that's our

665
00:40:57,040 --> 00:41:00,319
Speaker 1: big power. We saw Rep. Sherman in California actually state

666
00:41:00,440 --> 00:41:02,399
Speaker 1: this is a problem with bitcoin is it takes away

667
00:41:02,440 --> 00:41:05,160
Speaker 1: the power to slap sanctions um. And and because of

668
00:41:05,200 --> 00:41:08,960
Speaker 1: those sanctions against countries like Iran, Russia, China have said yeah,

669
00:41:09,000 --> 00:41:11,879
Speaker 1: we'll just do stuff outside the US dollar. Then, Um,

670
00:41:12,040 --> 00:41:14,520
Speaker 1: the U s has a history of trying to protect

671
00:41:14,680 --> 00:41:19,680
Speaker 1: the dollars um reserve status. I'm just curious. Do you

672
00:41:19,719 --> 00:41:23,800
Speaker 1: think some of these trade wars could be like maybe

673
00:41:23,840 --> 00:41:28,879
Speaker 1: proxy wars for the real currency wars? I think so.

674
00:41:29,239 --> 00:41:34,160
Speaker 1: I think so. I mean maybe I should say unfortunately,

675
00:41:34,200 --> 00:41:38,200
Speaker 1: but yeah, I do see that's happening because I mean,

676
00:41:38,239 --> 00:41:42,400
Speaker 1: the US has a history of having wars with countries um.

677
00:41:42,520 --> 00:41:45,080
Speaker 1: And many people and I'm not stating this as fact,

678
00:41:45,120 --> 00:41:48,880
Speaker 1: but many people have brought up the um the point

679
00:41:49,000 --> 00:41:51,200
Speaker 1: that a lot of these countries we go in and

680
00:41:51,200 --> 00:41:53,400
Speaker 1: invade our countries that are not on you know, the

681
00:41:53,480 --> 00:41:58,040
Speaker 1: US dollar banking system, etcetera. UM, and China is not

682
00:41:58,080 --> 00:41:59,640
Speaker 1: really a country you want to go to war with,

683
00:42:00,560 --> 00:42:03,560
Speaker 1: but these are like proxy wars maybe, I mean they're

684
00:42:03,560 --> 00:42:07,120
Speaker 1: off obviously financial, so that's interesting and but I don't

685
00:42:07,120 --> 00:42:12,040
Speaker 1: think that's going to be beneficial to any of the countries, honestly,

686
00:42:12,120 --> 00:42:16,080
Speaker 1: And as I said, that's why I hope that uh.

687
00:42:16,120 --> 00:42:18,719
Speaker 1: And I'm curious actually just to go back, I think

688
00:42:18,719 --> 00:42:23,919
Speaker 1: today the governor governor of Bank Or Japan, I don't

689
00:42:23,960 --> 00:42:26,400
Speaker 1: recall his name, but I think he was supposed to

690
00:42:26,440 --> 00:42:29,279
Speaker 1: hold this news conference today where he was expected to

691
00:42:29,320 --> 00:42:32,800
Speaker 1: give some analysis on the US China trade war. And

692
00:42:32,840 --> 00:42:35,399
Speaker 1: I was very curious to hear a little bit more

693
00:42:35,400 --> 00:42:38,319
Speaker 1: about that because I mean, definitely we don't want this

694
00:42:38,440 --> 00:42:42,600
Speaker 1: to have a through a strong impact, but probably if

695
00:42:42,640 --> 00:42:46,680
Speaker 1: I were to kind of guests the impact of US

696
00:42:46,800 --> 00:42:49,920
Speaker 1: China trade war, I see that having a stronger impact,

697
00:42:50,040 --> 00:42:54,640
Speaker 1: especially on the world economic growth for next year. I mean,

698
00:42:54,719 --> 00:42:58,120
Speaker 1: maybe we don't feel that right away, but and I'm

699
00:42:58,160 --> 00:43:01,279
Speaker 1: not one of those economic analysts, but I do a

700
00:43:01,280 --> 00:43:04,919
Speaker 1: lot of researches, and I get academic obviously, and that's

701
00:43:04,920 --> 00:43:07,520
Speaker 1: why I think probably that is one of the going

702
00:43:07,560 --> 00:43:11,000
Speaker 1: to be one of the strongest impacts of this China

703
00:43:11,400 --> 00:43:13,640
Speaker 1: US war, especially when it comes to the investment in

704
00:43:13,760 --> 00:43:16,920
Speaker 1: China and the decline the consumer spending growth in the

705
00:43:17,000 --> 00:43:19,839
Speaker 1: United States and in China as well. So that would

706
00:43:19,840 --> 00:43:24,040
Speaker 1: be interesting to see. Now let's try and uh, let's

707
00:43:24,040 --> 00:43:27,040
Speaker 1: try and future cast this a little bit. UM. You know,

708
00:43:27,120 --> 00:43:29,839
Speaker 1: I I think, like I said before, you watch those

709
00:43:29,880 --> 00:43:32,480
Speaker 1: movies where they go back in time and they change

710
00:43:32,480 --> 00:43:34,000
Speaker 1: one little thing and then they go back to the

711
00:43:34,000 --> 00:43:36,160
Speaker 1: future and the whole future is different, and we can

712
00:43:36,200 --> 00:43:38,360
Speaker 1: so we can understand. They call it like the butterfly effects.

713
00:43:38,360 --> 00:43:40,520
Speaker 1: So we if we can look at things that are

714
00:43:40,560 --> 00:43:43,040
Speaker 1: happening today and we can kind of maybe go, wow,

715
00:43:43,160 --> 00:43:44,440
Speaker 1: look what this is going to do in the future.

716
00:43:44,480 --> 00:43:48,080
Speaker 1: And so UM a couple of things that I'm focusing on.

717
00:43:48,480 --> 00:43:52,200
Speaker 1: And really because we're both in the United States, maybe

718
00:43:52,200 --> 00:43:56,120
Speaker 1: more US centered or focused, But if we look at

719
00:43:56,200 --> 00:43:57,719
Speaker 1: like what's going on in the US right now with

720
00:43:57,800 --> 00:44:02,440
Speaker 1: regulations UM, not only our US companies moving out of

721
00:44:02,440 --> 00:44:04,719
Speaker 1: the US because of the blockchain regulations, but then we

722
00:44:04,800 --> 00:44:08,040
Speaker 1: have UM companies that are in the U s still

723
00:44:08,040 --> 00:44:10,200
Speaker 1: like Bittram pull up and Pologna exer saying the US

724
00:44:10,239 --> 00:44:12,560
Speaker 1: people can't be in this and then buy aance, just

725
00:44:12,600 --> 00:44:17,279
Speaker 1: shutting people off all together, like like bit f ex, etcetera. Um,

726
00:44:17,400 --> 00:44:20,279
Speaker 1: what do you think that means for the future? I mean,

727
00:44:20,320 --> 00:44:23,120
Speaker 1: so it looks like to me the US is not

728
00:44:23,160 --> 00:44:27,120
Speaker 1: only moving companies out of the US, but also prohibiting

729
00:44:27,680 --> 00:44:30,640
Speaker 1: US people from taking advantage of this. Do you see

730
00:44:30,680 --> 00:44:33,920
Speaker 1: that happening? And do you think that is going to

731
00:44:34,040 --> 00:44:38,080
Speaker 1: continue get better or get worse. I hope that that

732
00:44:38,280 --> 00:44:41,000
Speaker 1: is going to continue to get better. And I would

733
00:44:41,000 --> 00:44:45,600
Speaker 1: like to argue a little bit with you here. Don't argue,

734
00:44:45,680 --> 00:44:50,080
Speaker 1: but you can go ahead and see your que I mean,

735
00:44:50,239 --> 00:44:55,000
Speaker 1: I disagree that the companies are moving out just to

736
00:44:55,000 --> 00:44:59,400
Speaker 1: be compliant in other countries. First of all, I think that, uh,

737
00:44:59,440 --> 00:45:02,960
Speaker 1: if you want to be compliant in the United States,

738
00:45:03,520 --> 00:45:08,440
Speaker 1: you do have pretty much everything when it comes to

739
00:45:08,520 --> 00:45:12,120
Speaker 1: the I mean, these companies then know exactly what they're

740
00:45:12,120 --> 00:45:15,720
Speaker 1: supposed to do to be compliant in the United States.

741
00:45:16,000 --> 00:45:18,760
Speaker 1: Of course, we need a little bit more guidance. Of course,

742
00:45:18,800 --> 00:45:20,960
Speaker 1: this is still a little bit of a murky area

743
00:45:21,000 --> 00:45:23,719
Speaker 1: when it comes to our regulatory space, but we do

744
00:45:23,920 --> 00:45:26,960
Speaker 1: support innovation, and I kind of dislike to see when

745
00:45:27,400 --> 00:45:30,959
Speaker 1: everybody states that, hey, all these companies are moving out

746
00:45:31,000 --> 00:45:33,520
Speaker 1: of United States. And to be honest with you, when

747
00:45:33,560 --> 00:45:38,160
Speaker 1: I saw this tweets or this UH kind of announcements

748
00:45:38,360 --> 00:45:43,439
Speaker 1: about GEO blocking US customers, I kind of feel bad

749
00:45:43,560 --> 00:45:46,560
Speaker 1: because and I think I tweeted about this, and I

750
00:45:46,600 --> 00:45:48,880
Speaker 1: think I said that it kind of makes us like

751
00:45:49,920 --> 00:45:53,360
Speaker 1: look like delinquents, you know. And it's interesting because right

752
00:45:53,440 --> 00:45:57,719
Speaker 1: now we are dealing with this global industry and we

753
00:45:57,800 --> 00:46:01,640
Speaker 1: have all these US customers, we all these US investors

754
00:46:01,760 --> 00:46:05,560
Speaker 1: being so much interested in this industry and then being

755
00:46:05,640 --> 00:46:10,400
Speaker 1: denied access to the exchange platforms. I don't think that's fair.

756
00:46:10,680 --> 00:46:13,480
Speaker 1: I mean, for the exchange platforms is important for them

757
00:46:13,520 --> 00:46:17,680
Speaker 1: to understand how to be compliant and how to also

758
00:46:18,000 --> 00:46:22,440
Speaker 1: include UH, I mean US customers in in in this

759
00:46:22,560 --> 00:46:26,120
Speaker 1: space and hopefully that it's going to change soon. So

760
00:46:26,200 --> 00:46:29,320
Speaker 1: then you think that the problem isn't really that bad.

761
00:46:29,560 --> 00:46:31,640
Speaker 1: I mean, the fact that US customers have been kicked

762
00:46:31,680 --> 00:46:34,480
Speaker 1: off the largest exchange and being blocked out of other

763
00:46:34,520 --> 00:46:39,000
Speaker 1: exchanges isn't isn't really that bad? But actually ask customers,

764
00:46:39,000 --> 00:46:41,920
Speaker 1: but I don't think that's fair, right, right, Yeah, I

765
00:46:41,960 --> 00:46:44,279
Speaker 1: don't think it's fair at all. And um, that's where

766
00:46:44,320 --> 00:46:46,600
Speaker 1: I start to think about a future in ten years

767
00:46:46,680 --> 00:46:49,200
Speaker 1: or fifteen years. I think back, like you know, the

768
00:46:49,200 --> 00:46:52,640
Speaker 1: the internet technology, um over the last twenty years, it's

769
00:46:52,719 --> 00:46:55,440
Speaker 1: really propelled the US forward, right, I mean, we the

770
00:46:55,560 --> 00:46:59,120
Speaker 1: US has Google, Facebook, Amazon, et cetera, Netflix, and the

771
00:46:59,160 --> 00:47:01,360
Speaker 1: fame stocks. And if you look at the stock market

772
00:47:01,400 --> 00:47:03,880
Speaker 1: and you take out the tech stocks, right, we're at

773
00:47:03,880 --> 00:47:05,400
Speaker 1: all time highs in the stock market, but if you

774
00:47:05,440 --> 00:47:07,560
Speaker 1: take out the tech stocks, the stock market is flat.

775
00:47:08,160 --> 00:47:10,880
Speaker 1: And so if we didn't have that boom here, the

776
00:47:10,960 --> 00:47:13,040
Speaker 1: last twenty years would have looked very different. And so

777
00:47:13,080 --> 00:47:15,319
Speaker 1: then just imagine ten years or twenty years from now

778
00:47:15,360 --> 00:47:18,520
Speaker 1: if we don't have this next boom and and or

779
00:47:18,600 --> 00:47:22,160
Speaker 1: maybe it and it happens, but US people just can't

780
00:47:22,320 --> 00:47:25,360
Speaker 1: can't be involved in it. So anyway, that's my fear.

781
00:47:26,320 --> 00:47:28,279
Speaker 1: I just hope that's not going to happen. I don't

782
00:47:28,280 --> 00:47:31,680
Speaker 1: want to sound overly optimistic, but I just hope that

783
00:47:31,680 --> 00:47:35,120
Speaker 1: that's not going to happen. And I mean also just

784
00:47:35,160 --> 00:47:36,840
Speaker 1: looking at the bright side, I mean, the fact that

785
00:47:36,920 --> 00:47:40,440
Speaker 1: finance is coming back in September or so back to

786
00:47:40,560 --> 00:47:45,560
Speaker 1: United States with a complainant I mean complaint platform. To me,

787
00:47:45,680 --> 00:47:48,480
Speaker 1: that is quite telling. I mean, obviously the majority of

788
00:47:48,520 --> 00:47:51,320
Speaker 1: their users were from the United States, despite the fact

789
00:47:51,360 --> 00:47:54,240
Speaker 1: that's easy, you didn't want to admit that and saying that, hey,

790
00:47:54,360 --> 00:47:59,120
Speaker 1: we do not allow us I mean US users in

791
00:47:59,160 --> 00:48:01,759
Speaker 1: our platform orm and as I said, this was back

792
00:48:01,880 --> 00:48:05,759
Speaker 1: last year. But my I mean, they obviously know that

793
00:48:05,880 --> 00:48:10,759
Speaker 1: majority of their business was coming from United States as yeah, yeah,

794
00:48:10,800 --> 00:48:13,000
Speaker 1: good point. And I don't want to be overly pestimistic either.

795
00:48:13,040 --> 00:48:14,919
Speaker 1: I mean, I believe in the space, and I believe

796
00:48:14,920 --> 00:48:18,640
Speaker 1: in the technology, and I believe in human ingenuity, and

797
00:48:18,840 --> 00:48:21,799
Speaker 1: uh you know, I think that will always find a way.

798
00:48:21,840 --> 00:48:25,600
Speaker 1: And so we lose finance, um people have to be

799
00:48:25,760 --> 00:48:28,240
Speaker 1: are forced to move back to US exchanges and liquidity

800
00:48:28,280 --> 00:48:31,759
Speaker 1: comes back and the market survives. My only fear is

801
00:48:31,760 --> 00:48:36,120
Speaker 1: is that these regulators continue to uh be to draconian.

802
00:48:36,640 --> 00:48:39,800
Speaker 1: Hopefully it doesn't happen, and I'm optimistic that it won't.

803
00:48:39,920 --> 00:48:42,640
Speaker 1: I was just curious on your views on I hope

804
00:48:42,680 --> 00:48:47,600
Speaker 1: that's not gonna happen. Yes, I mean, I'm very optimistic

805
00:48:47,640 --> 00:48:50,840
Speaker 1: about the space. Obviously, I do have strong reasons to

806
00:48:50,880 --> 00:48:53,240
Speaker 1: be involved in the space. I really enjoyed the space.

807
00:48:53,239 --> 00:48:57,960
Speaker 1: Even that always quite uh challenging because as many of

808
00:48:58,040 --> 00:49:00,600
Speaker 1: my other A Churity of friends, we have to be

809
00:49:00,640 --> 00:49:05,320
Speaker 1: on top of every single us of every single recent

810
00:49:05,800 --> 00:49:10,759
Speaker 1: regulatory update out there or But I still enjoyed to

811
00:49:10,800 --> 00:49:14,280
Speaker 1: work with my clients and it's quite a very interesting

812
00:49:14,600 --> 00:49:19,480
Speaker 1: era that we are experiencing right now. Yeah, awesome, All right, Well,

813
00:49:19,520 --> 00:49:21,160
Speaker 1: we've gone a long time. That was a lot of

814
00:49:21,200 --> 00:49:23,719
Speaker 1: topics to go. There were still a couple of things

815
00:49:23,719 --> 00:49:25,239
Speaker 1: that I had written down that I wanted to talk

816
00:49:25,280 --> 00:49:26,919
Speaker 1: to you about, but we're just gonna have to save

817
00:49:26,920 --> 00:49:29,640
Speaker 1: those for another time. Um, because I know it's just

818
00:49:29,680 --> 00:49:32,080
Speaker 1: going along. I would like to ask you, though, um,

819
00:49:32,080 --> 00:49:34,640
Speaker 1: what what is the what is maybe the one thing

820
00:49:34,760 --> 00:49:37,160
Speaker 1: or a couple of things that you're really excited about

821
00:49:37,160 --> 00:49:40,640
Speaker 1: coming down kind of into the ecosystem over the next

822
00:49:40,680 --> 00:49:44,279
Speaker 1: you know, a few months or year, Like what developments, projects,

823
00:49:44,400 --> 00:49:46,560
Speaker 1: or or things are you kind of excited about that

824
00:49:46,680 --> 00:49:50,640
Speaker 1: you're that you're watching. Yeah, that's a very very good question,

825
00:49:50,760 --> 00:49:53,680
Speaker 1: and I think for myself, I just hope to see

826
00:49:53,680 --> 00:49:56,000
Speaker 1: a little bit more and we're moving forward with that

827
00:49:56,160 --> 00:50:00,720
Speaker 1: with the investment, uh with the creditor in Smunth Rules,

828
00:50:00,719 --> 00:50:02,839
Speaker 1: So I hope we have to see a little bit

829
00:50:02,880 --> 00:50:07,720
Speaker 1: more changes on that, hopefully next year. Mm hm great, Yeah,

830
00:50:07,880 --> 00:50:11,760
Speaker 1: that's a big one. Alright. Awesome, Well, such good stuff,

831
00:50:11,800 --> 00:50:14,239
Speaker 1: alt Um. Like I said, we could just talk about

832
00:50:14,280 --> 00:50:15,759
Speaker 1: some of the stuff forever, a couple of things we

833
00:50:15,800 --> 00:50:17,399
Speaker 1: want to want to get into. And I know you're

834
00:50:17,440 --> 00:50:20,920
Speaker 1: doing a big piece on Facebook later, so we kind

835
00:50:20,920 --> 00:50:23,040
Speaker 1: of skipped over that. Maybe we'll talk about that again later.

836
00:50:23,080 --> 00:50:25,920
Speaker 1: But I just really appreciate you having having you on

837
00:50:25,960 --> 00:50:29,160
Speaker 1: the show. Where where could people that really like you

838
00:50:29,800 --> 00:50:32,880
Speaker 1: and want to follow you more? Where could they find you? Uh?

839
00:50:32,960 --> 00:50:36,680
Speaker 1: So I am on Twitter and Jni Alta, I am

840
00:50:36,760 --> 00:50:40,680
Speaker 1: on LinkedIn. I'm very vocal about my opinions, and I'm

841
00:50:41,160 --> 00:50:43,680
Speaker 1: they can reach me at oh and DONI at Zilly

842
00:50:43,960 --> 00:50:48,359
Speaker 1: leak Law. So I'd love to help everyone in this space. Great,

843
00:50:48,440 --> 00:50:49,799
Speaker 1: And I'll go ahead and put links to that in

844
00:50:49,840 --> 00:50:52,799
Speaker 1: the show notes for everybody who's maybe driving or can't

845
00:50:52,840 --> 00:50:55,640
Speaker 1: write that down right now. But again, Alta, thank you

846
00:50:55,680 --> 00:50:57,839
Speaker 1: so much for coming on and we'll talk to you soon.

847
00:50:58,400 --> 00:51:02,000
Speaker 1: Thank you so much, Mark for having me. Hey, if

848
00:51:02,040 --> 00:51:05,680
Speaker 1: you like this episode, of the Market Disruptors Podcast. Please

849
00:51:05,680 --> 00:51:08,480
Speaker 1: help us take this to the top of the podcast charts.

850
00:51:08,480 --> 00:51:11,719
Speaker 1: Just please do me a favor and rate, review and subscribe.

851
00:51:11,920 --> 00:51:14,680
Speaker 1: Taking fifteen seconds to just leave a quick review goes

852
00:51:14,719 --> 00:51:17,080
Speaker 1: a long way and helping us reach more people and

853
00:51:17,160 --> 00:51:20,279
Speaker 1: disrupt more markets. I really appreciate you listening and I'll

854
00:51:20,280 --> 00:51:22,680
Speaker 1: see you next time on the Market Disruptors Podcast.