Speaker 1: Welcome to the NFL Legends Podcast, an NFL podcast for
Speaker 1: the players, by the players. Here is your host, fourteen
Speaker 1: year NFL veteran and Hall of famer As Williams. Hello,
Speaker 1: Welcome to the NFL Legends Podcast. I am As Williams.
Speaker 1: Today our guest is NFL Legend, my former teammate. The
Speaker 1: set join it and I'll tell you why I say
Speaker 1: the shortly. On addition of playing thirteen seasons in the
Speaker 1: league and being a Super Bowl champion, also host an
Speaker 1: NFL podcast, The Set join the show. Welcome Seth and there.
Speaker 1: This is a pleasure to be with you, my friend.
Speaker 1: I'm glad that you're doing well and I'm looking forward
Speaker 1: to this, uh, this time of chatting with you, my friend.
Speaker 1: We've been doing this podcast over three years, Set, and
Speaker 1: I really haven't had a lot of my teammates that
Speaker 1: I've had the opportunity to be on the podcast, so
Speaker 1: this is special for me. You've had former teammates on
Speaker 1: You just had Randall Cunningham something like on on your show,
Speaker 1: and you've had we were called the Mount rushmore of
Speaker 1: players from the Philadelphia Eagles. What was it like having
Speaker 1: conversations with those guys? Well, It's really interesting because, um,
Speaker 1: you know, one of the one of the greatest shows
Speaker 1: that I had, I had Randall, I had Ron Jaworski,
Speaker 1: had Donovan McNabb, and I had Michael Vick all on
Speaker 1: the same show. I mean, I came up with the idea,
Speaker 1: you know, okay, if quarterback is the most important position
Speaker 1: on the field, you got you know, the four greatest
Speaker 1: quarterback icons almost you know, in the present day history
Speaker 1: of the of the of the organization. So why not
Speaker 1: have those guys come on. They're all from different errors
Speaker 1: and have them talk about you know, um, their experiences
Speaker 1: being the Philadelphia Eagle, their experienced in the league. And
Speaker 1: let me tell you, my show is supposed to be
Speaker 1: an hour. We went an hour in forty five minutes.
Speaker 1: You know. Once once I got everybody ramped up. I mean,
Speaker 1: they were just firing away and it was so organic.
Speaker 1: I just set back and just let them let them
Speaker 1: go and and it was a phenomenal, phenomenal show. You know,
Speaker 1: it's interesting you had Michael Vicken when you had a
Speaker 1: random cutting him. I would dare say today's young quarterbacks
Speaker 1: remind me of those two guys. When it comes down
Speaker 1: to Russell Wilson, Carla Murray, we have the hype right
Speaker 1: supposedly at one time impediment and then you had the
Speaker 1: duck flute, as you had John Elways, the mobile guys.
Speaker 1: So justin Herbert, big old guys at are mobile said,
Speaker 1: what would have it been like for you playing today?
Speaker 1: What what I called the quarterback? When we were playing,
Speaker 1: I thought the most vulnerable defense was a defense plan
Speaker 1: against a mobile quarterback who not only could run, but
Speaker 1: had the ability to throw the ball. Right. Do you
Speaker 1: think it had been like were you playing during this era? Well,
Speaker 1: it's it always created a problem because you know, sitting
Speaker 1: back watching Randall Cunningham grow and coming to his own
Speaker 1: and then Michael Vick come in and take you know,
Speaker 1: the lead by storm. Those guys were the genesis of
Speaker 1: the you know, the triple threat quarterback, and it would
Speaker 1: have been difficult. I don't know. Sometimes I watched defense
Speaker 1: today and I wonder, how is it possible that you
Speaker 1: can stop these guys? But you know, you know, playing
Speaker 1: on the buddy, we were a pressure defense and we
Speaker 1: were all about applying pressure to the quarterback position. Um,
Speaker 1: the greatest hinders that you have when defensively, when you're
Speaker 1: trying to stop a guy like Colin Murray, Lamar Jackson,
Speaker 1: you know, ad Justin Herbert, these guys that can move
Speaker 1: around and make plays. Is trying to keep these guys
Speaker 1: bottled up and contained, and it's it's it's a tough
Speaker 1: thing to do when you only rushed for because you're
Speaker 1: always gonna have these gaps, you know, in your defensive
Speaker 1: line when you got you know, your alignement, and their
Speaker 1: focus is, you know, getting sacks, getting sacks, getting sacked,
Speaker 1: you know, so tell sometimes they lose the discipline of
Speaker 1: laying integrity and making sure that they keep the quarterback
Speaker 1: in the pocket. And these quarterbacks are smart enough to
Speaker 1: understand the game and know now that you know, hey,
Speaker 1: when I read you know man and man in passing situations,
Speaker 1: when the play breaks down, everybody's got their backs turn.
Speaker 1: Whether you're single high, too high safety, you know, those
Speaker 1: safeties are thirty yards deep, so I'm gonna pick up
Speaker 1: fift twenty yards before the defense can't even react. And
Speaker 1: they're smart enough to understand it. When I read zone
Speaker 1: pre snap that I'm scrambling to buy time. I'm not
Speaker 1: trying to cross the line of scrimmage and get yards
Speaker 1: I'm trying to scramble to buy time for my guys
Speaker 1: that uncover and find a hole where I can actually
Speaker 1: complete complete passes. So it's a tough task today, you know,
Speaker 1: no doubt, you know me playing in in today's NFL
Speaker 1: or US playing defensively in today's version of offensive football
Speaker 1: would have been a major, major challenge. And that's what
Speaker 1: I was thinking, because the Patrick Mahomes, de Lamar Jackson,
Speaker 1: these guys Cassette, they will wear out a pass rush.
Speaker 1: So just intriguing to see how we would have played
Speaker 1: in this era. But as you were doing your interview
Speaker 1: with your guys, what were the stories like when you
Speaker 1: were talking to Ron Jaworski and and Randall and and
Speaker 1: Michael those guys. It was really interesting in this because
Speaker 1: you had Randall was drafted um I think a year
Speaker 1: or two before me, and he was drafted to be
Speaker 1: the Arab parent to Ron Jaworski, And a lot of
Speaker 1: people don't know my last year, Ron was my first year.
Speaker 1: Rather Ron was on the team. He um was the
Speaker 1: first second down quarterback, but he was trying to implement
Speaker 1: Randall n because the plan was the following year Randall
Speaker 1: was going to be the starting quarterback and they were
Speaker 1: gonna move on from Jaws. Jaws would play first and
Speaker 1: second down, but he would put Randall in the game
Speaker 1: and on third down. I mean, this happened all year long.
Speaker 1: It was the craziest thing that you'd ever want to see.
Speaker 1: So you knew that Ron felt some type of way
Speaker 1: about that, you know, because he wants to stay on
Speaker 1: the field and convert the third down. But the Randall
Speaker 1: comes on and more times than not, he was gonna
Speaker 1: run and he was gonna scramble, you know, for a
Speaker 1: first down. So the dynamic, you know, of those two
Speaker 1: quarterbacks and what they went through in six was amazing
Speaker 1: to me because under normal circumstances, you know, human nature
Speaker 1: would say that that Ron would still feel some type
Speaker 1: of way about that situation, and how Randall supplanted him.
Speaker 1: And then and then you fast forward to Donovan McNabb
Speaker 1: and Donovan McNabb, you know, having Michael fit come in
Speaker 1: after you know, his off the field issues, and it's
Speaker 1: been documented that Andy Reid and Jeffrey Lourie and Day
Speaker 1: and Joe banner Um the brain stress of the Philadelphia
Speaker 1: was actually when they had a conversation with Donovan about
Speaker 1: bringing in Michael and then how a couple of years later,
Speaker 1: the same thing transpired where Donovan's you know, play begin
Speaker 1: to wane a little bit. He began to have some
Speaker 1: issues and Michael had an opportunity to play, and the
Speaker 1: next thing, you know, Donovan gets traded to the Washington
Speaker 1: you know, football team, and now Michael Vick is now
Speaker 1: the starting quarterback for the Philadelphia Eagles. I mean, it
Speaker 1: was just it was a phenomenal um interview because of
Speaker 1: those dynamics and then to be able to see the
Speaker 1: respect that all four those guys, even through all of that,
Speaker 1: still half for each other, and how they talked about
Speaker 1: each other, and you know, Randall talked about how Jaws
Speaker 1: helped him and and and and Michael talked about how
Speaker 1: you know, Donovan feeling comfortable enough to to okay him
Speaker 1: coming you know, getting a second chance with the Philadelphia Eagles.
Speaker 1: And then that whole transition of how Randall replaced Jaws
Speaker 1: and how Michael Vick replaced Donovan um to be able
Speaker 1: to have him on and and and see the reverence
Speaker 1: that they you know, still have for each other. You know,
Speaker 1: it was a great thing. How much did you guys
Speaker 1: sense as teammates. That's some the overtones of possibly prejudices
Speaker 1: of an African American quarterback replacing a Caucasian brother, Ron Jaworski.
Speaker 1: Did you guys feel any of that, Oh, you could
Speaker 1: feel it was probable in the city, um, not only
Speaker 1: among the fans, because you gotta remember Ron Zawarski actually quarterback.
Speaker 1: You know, this this Eagle's franchise, you know, to their
Speaker 1: first modern day Super Bowl. So there was a major
Speaker 1: reverence in the city of Philadelphia for for Ron Jaworski,
Speaker 1: even though you know, his his his skills had erode
Speaker 1: it and you know Randall was was gonna be the
Speaker 1: new guy when the shift was made. Among the fans,
Speaker 1: among the media, and even some of the guys on
Speaker 1: the team felt like, you know, that wasn't the move
Speaker 1: to be made, that was you know, so there was
Speaker 1: some animosity there. But you know, it was a situation
Speaker 1: where the Eagles, along with the Cardinals at that time,
Speaker 1: you know, resided in the basement of the NFC East.
Speaker 1: There was a turnover on the roster, so it wasn't
Speaker 1: just a quarterback position, but it was across the board.
Speaker 1: But it was even magnified that much more when you had,
Speaker 1: you know, a Caucasian quarterback whom the city and the
Speaker 1: media revered being replaced by a scrambling African America and quarterback.
Speaker 1: And it was still not you know, the politically correct
Speaker 1: thing at that time. You know that African American quarterbacks
Speaker 1: would take over those types of positions and and it
Speaker 1: wasn't believed that they could flourish in those in those situations.
Speaker 1: So it also gives us probably the mindset behind coach
Speaker 1: Buddy running right, because some coaches would have been pressured
Speaker 1: not do this. So tell me about Buddy. What what
Speaker 1: was your first experience with coach Buddy Ryan. You know, listen,
Speaker 1: I thought the guy was crazy. Um, I'm a young guy.
Speaker 1: You know when I got drafted by the Eagles and
Speaker 1: I was twenty years old. I was the youngest player
Speaker 1: in the NFL. I wasn't even legal when I got drafted. Um.
Speaker 1: You know, you get the training camp and you know,
Speaker 1: Buddy is just custing to everybody out and you know,
Speaker 1: I had never experienced that that type of intensity and
Speaker 1: that type of workload, you know, all of my years
Speaker 1: of playing football. Um, as I look back at it
Speaker 1: now in retrospect, I understand it wholeheartedly because what he
Speaker 1: was doing is he was trying to figure out just
Speaker 1: like when he came to Arizona that first training camp
Speaker 1: was was hell, you know, and what he was trying
Speaker 1: to figure out, Okay, who wants to be here and
Speaker 1: who's willing to sacrifice and who's willing to put in
Speaker 1: the work to be here? Because the guys that don't
Speaker 1: want to do the work and the guys that don't
Speaker 1: want to sacrifice, you know, I gotta get those guys
Speaker 1: out of here because in order for me to change
Speaker 1: the culture, I've got to brand guys that are gonna
Speaker 1: buy in to what it is that I'm trying to do.
Speaker 1: And that's what it was like on a daily basis,
Speaker 1: on a daily basis, and for the young guys, because
Speaker 1: I was drafted by him. For the young guys, you
Speaker 1: had to you had to write of passes that you
Speaker 1: had to get through. I didn't even think he knew
Speaker 1: my name because for two years he never called me
Speaker 1: by my name. I was fifty nine. How did your
Speaker 1: teammates help twenty years old a rookie? How was it
Speaker 1: in the locker room? What he may help you get
Speaker 1: through it? Oh? Yeah, well I mean, listen, there was
Speaker 1: a lot of transition. There was a lot of animosity,
Speaker 1: you know, when I got there. We we drafted four
Speaker 1: linebackers that year in the draft. Um, there was another
Speaker 1: seven or eight veterans that were excuse me, that were
Speaker 1: on the roster. Um. I had some guys telling me
Speaker 1: to go right when I should have been going left,
Speaker 1: you know. But I was fortunate enough to have one guy, um,
Speaker 1: one veteran named Gary Cole. You know, he took all
Speaker 1: the young guys under his wing, and one day, you know,
Speaker 1: he made it pretty clear. He was like, you know,
Speaker 1: you guys, don't think all of y'all gonna make the team.
Speaker 1: You know, a rookies, you know, you you think that
Speaker 1: just because you're drafted that you're gonna make the team.
Speaker 1: You know, we we had no idea what the process
Speaker 1: was like. So he says, not all of you guys
Speaker 1: are gonna make the team, and I'm like, what are
Speaker 1: you talking about? You know, we were all drafted. He
Speaker 1: was like, listen, there are there are seven or other
Speaker 1: eight guys here who have NFL experience. You know the
Speaker 1: majority of those guys gonna play. We're gonna keep you know,
Speaker 1: too deep at each position, but I understand that there's
Speaker 1: gonna be some some spots on this roster for some
Speaker 1: of you guys that can play special teams. And it
Speaker 1: dawned on me at that point in time that that
Speaker 1: is how I was going to make the team, you know,
Speaker 1: So I focused my attention. Yeah, I was still studying.
Speaker 1: I was still preparing because I knew I had to
Speaker 1: learn the defense even though I wasn't getting a lot
Speaker 1: of reps at the linebacker position. But what I quickly
Speaker 1: realize is that, you know what, if I can show
Speaker 1: them the type of player that I can be on
Speaker 1: special teams, somehow that might translate in their minds that
Speaker 1: at some point in time down the road an opportunity
Speaker 1: might present it so for me to show them what
Speaker 1: type of linebacker I could be, you know, and sometimes
Speaker 1: as young guys, that's how you have to you have
Speaker 1: to approach it. So I'm I'm forever in debt, you know,
Speaker 1: to Gary for not only teaching us how to be professionals,
Speaker 1: because he said, you know, if you're gonna be a professional,
Speaker 1: this is what you do. This is where you go.
Speaker 1: This way you don't go. This is what you do,
Speaker 1: is what you don't think this is how you study,
Speaker 1: This is how you prepare. I mean, he gave us
Speaker 1: all the tools that was necessary and he mentored us
Speaker 1: along the way. Um, but I'm forever grateful that I
Speaker 1: had a guy like that, and I'm forever grateful, you know,
Speaker 1: for the opportunity to be able to showcase what I
Speaker 1: could do special teams wise, because had he not and
Speaker 1: he not shed a light on those things for us,
Speaker 1: you know, I wouldn't never, you know, been able to
Speaker 1: enjoy a thirteen year career. I had no idea. You
Speaker 1: mentioned Gary Cobb, and he's worked obviously with the Legends
Speaker 1: community what we're doing this podcast. When I was thinking
Speaker 1: about you, I said Seth was a five too. I
Speaker 1: was thinking of a way to put this a five
Speaker 1: tool linebacker. What are the five tools I was I
Speaker 1: was referencing. You can rush the passer, you can play
Speaker 1: the run, You're very good in coverage, you can intercept
Speaker 1: the ball. In the fifth thing, you can play special teams.
Speaker 1: And now you bring that up that Yarry mentor you
Speaker 1: guys telling you guys, bring it to your attention. Special
Speaker 1: teams will be the way that you're able to get
Speaker 1: on board. And once you were on board. As we said,
Speaker 1: the rest is history. Here's another question I would ask you, said,
Speaker 1: what was it like coming from Philadelphia and Buddy bringing
Speaker 1: what I what I called some of his tested troops
Speaker 1: to Arizona? What was that like? And what was it
Speaker 1: like coming into a culture where we hadn't won a lot?
Speaker 1: But you knew what Buddy was capable of? What was
Speaker 1: that like? Well, it wasn't only the fact that you know,
Speaker 1: I knew what you know, what Buddy could do, and
Speaker 1: I knew what he was like. But we played against
Speaker 1: you guys twice a year, every year, every year, um,
Speaker 1: and it was never a situation all the years that
Speaker 1: we you know that playing against you guys all my
Speaker 1: years in the league wasn't a situation. And you guys
Speaker 1: didn't have talent. It was trying to figure out, Okay,
Speaker 1: why is it that they can't that they can't win?
Speaker 1: So the decision to come was twofold that I know
Speaker 1: that they got talent. And second of all, I know
Speaker 1: I've seen Buddy make the trans the trans the transformation,
Speaker 1: and I believe that he could, you know, do something
Speaker 1: special with the talent that that's there. It was just
Speaker 1: you know, it was. It was a good move. It
Speaker 1: was not only a good career move, a good financial move,
Speaker 1: but it was also an opportunity to try to change,
Speaker 1: to do something special. I'll never forget you, Clyde Simmons
Speaker 1: and the late uh roommate of mine, Andre Water, and
Speaker 1: just the personality and what you guys brought the leadership.
Speaker 1: Hopefully I'll hold back tears because said you didn't know.
Speaker 1: But so Buddy has got the job after my uh
Speaker 1: my third year. So going to my fourth year, I
Speaker 1: was a restrictive free agent and my wife was getting
Speaker 1: her NBA at the University of Illinois, and I was
Speaker 1: considering whether I was gonna go back to Arizona. So
Speaker 1: I told my wife, I said, I don't think I'm
Speaker 1: going back the Arizona Once Buddy got the job, I said,
Speaker 1: because I heard Buddy wasn't a player's coach. Well that's
Speaker 1: not true at all. As you know, I thought I
Speaker 1: was gonna get that over on my wife, and but
Speaker 1: it turned out she says, what are you talking about?
Speaker 1: And she you know how wives, I asked questions, probing questions,
Speaker 1: and what it was. I was afraid, I really, I
Speaker 1: really wasn't sure that I could play in the system
Speaker 1: where the cornerback was on the island. So Man, we
Speaker 1: my wife and I prayed and we said, well, are
Speaker 1: we sensed to go back to Arizona. And I'll never
Speaker 1: forget once I signed. This is when I found out
Speaker 1: the power of a coach and a coach's belief in
Speaker 1: a person. As soon as I went back and I
Speaker 1: signed back, the first person I saw was Rob Ryan
Speaker 1: rexas Uh, one of the twins right to Ron. Rob
Speaker 1: put his arms around me Set when I was in
Speaker 1: the weight room, came up to me. He says, in
Speaker 1: this you will make All Pro You'll lead the league
Speaker 1: in interceptions, You'll make the Pro Bowl. This defense is
Speaker 1: perfectly suited for you because I saw you do it
Speaker 1: at Southern University. And I'm telling you Set, like I said,
Speaker 1: I'm holding it in man, because that was a game changer.
Speaker 1: And that's when I learned the power of coaches speaking
Speaker 1: into players and realizing sometimes when players don't know what
Speaker 1: they're capable of doing, for the coast to verbalize it
Speaker 1: and no doubt about it. Man. That training camp, Uh,
Speaker 1: my trainer, as you know, Mac Newton. It was a
Speaker 1: game change changed my life and I was obviously the
Speaker 1: first year I made the Pro Bowl, first year I
Speaker 1: led the leading interceptions, first year I made All Pro.
Speaker 1: But it was because of your leadership. And I'll never forget.
Speaker 1: I want to put on this podcast. You understood, you're
Speaker 1: in cloude. Understood the connection of not just on the field,
Speaker 1: but off the field. Because when you guys came in,
Speaker 1: you brought us together as a defense. We were even
Speaker 1: at your house and I say, this is a joke,
Speaker 1: and I never forget. You forget, man, we're at so
Speaker 1: we're we're at your house. You remember this, and you
Speaker 1: had a big corn bread and and I never forget.
Speaker 1: So everybody, all the defense out and you're then somewhere.
Speaker 1: We're all sitting around and I went in the kitchen,
Speaker 1: and man, I saw that corn bread was fresh. Nobody
Speaker 1: had tested nobody in the kitchen. I look around and
Speaker 1: I love the inside of the corn bread. Right, So
Speaker 1: I go here, I cut the center out, eat it,
Speaker 1: come back and sit down with the rest of the defense.
Speaker 1: Everybody joking. Let's day you. Let's how I know, you
Speaker 1: get know going to kitchen, you come back out the
Speaker 1: kitchen with the pen in your head. We're just asides.
Speaker 1: The corners of the corn bread. Man at the world,
Speaker 1: ask it, who ain't who ain't the center of the
Speaker 1: corn bread? I mean, man, I was so nervous, and
Speaker 1: I'm like, oh, man, I gotta I gotta show my code.
Speaker 1: Man a second, ready kill somebody. Man. But but it really,
Speaker 1: when I think back, those were moments that helped defense
Speaker 1: has become great. It's not just the excellent ols and
Speaker 1: not just the coaching, but it's the camaraderie and players
Speaker 1: getting to know each other on and off the field.
Speaker 1: And I thought you were and Clyde did a tremendous
Speaker 1: job doing that. Why was that important to you? It
Speaker 1: was important because listen, we we learned it in Philadelphia,
Speaker 1: you know. I mean we we have one day week,
Speaker 1: you know where we got together as a defense okay,
Speaker 1: and we got together, we went to dinner. And when
Speaker 1: dinner was over, you know, the guys that were married,
Speaker 1: the guys that you know, they went their way, they
Speaker 1: went home, and the guys that was gonna go out
Speaker 1: and you know, while out, they were gonna go out
Speaker 1: and do their thing. But it was important, and but
Speaker 1: it instilled in us, you know early on. You know,
Speaker 1: it's hard for a team or a unit to be
Speaker 1: successful if you don't know each other, because if you
Speaker 1: don't know each other and you and you don't care
Speaker 1: enough about each other, when you get tired and the
Speaker 1: grind gets gone, you know, then it becomes about you.
Speaker 1: But when you're a unit and you're a brotherhood and
Speaker 1: you look at that guy next to you and you're
Speaker 1: tired and you know he's tired, then it becomes bigger
Speaker 1: than just you. You're not playing just for yourself. You're
Speaker 1: playing for that guy is next to you. And you
Speaker 1: know that when you go in the film study on
Speaker 1: Monday morning that thean this guy don't lie and everything
Speaker 1: is right there for every about to see. And the accountability.
Speaker 1: The coaches are gonna hold you accountable, but you hold
Speaker 1: each other accountable as teammates. So coming there, yeah, we want.
Speaker 1: I wanted to be successful, you know so, and and
Speaker 1: you know, throughout the first couple of weeks, I didn't
Speaker 1: see you know that camaraderie. So I'm like, okay, let's
Speaker 1: do something to try to bring the entire team together.
Speaker 1: So I'm like, okay, let's do a fish fry at
Speaker 1: the house and bring all the guys together and try
Speaker 1: to figure out a way where, you know, because we
Speaker 1: were new to y'all, to y'all's team, and I'm trying
Speaker 1: to get to know a new and I'm trying to
Speaker 1: get to know Eric Hill, and I'm trying to get
Speaker 1: to know Eric Swan. I'm trying to get to know
Speaker 1: all these guys because if I don't get to know
Speaker 1: them and they don't get to know me, then how
Speaker 1: do we create the camaraderie that's necessary in order for
Speaker 1: us to win. When you're trying to build a team
Speaker 1: and you're trying to get buy in, if everybody is
Speaker 1: not in it for each other, you have no shot
Speaker 1: whatsoever it went. You know, one of the things about
Speaker 1: Synergy said is those times together. I didn't understand that,
Speaker 1: and that's what you guys modeled and which was so
Speaker 1: important that it really set the foundation for that when
Speaker 1: we were able to finally go in and upset the
Speaker 1: college boys in the division around and lose close game
Speaker 1: to Minnesota. But it was just that foundation that you
Speaker 1: guys brought as relates to not just the defense, just
Speaker 1: the mentality of playing and understanding how important it was
Speaker 1: that it wasn't just on the field, but you modeled
Speaker 1: how important it was to be together. One thing we've experienced,
Speaker 1: we've lost what we call a legend that played with
Speaker 1: both of us, Qualmi Lasseter, losing Qualmi around last year
Speaker 1: around this time. Still continue to keep Eric in the
Speaker 1: family up in prayer. But you also while playing lost
Speaker 1: the teammate while playing with them, Jerome Brown. What what
Speaker 1: is that like? And how do how have you processed
Speaker 1: those things while a player, a teammate, losing Jerome Brown
Speaker 1: and now losing a legend like our fellow teammate Kwamie
Speaker 1: last age you I don't think you ever process it
Speaker 1: in this because you know, you know, I I get
Speaker 1: I still get choked up, man, because for me, not
Speaker 1: only did I lose Jerome, but I lost Andre Waters,
Speaker 1: I lost West Hopkins, and I lost Reggie White. You know,
Speaker 1: you take it beyond that. You know I was with
Speaker 1: Junior say a week before you know, we lost him.
Speaker 1: We lost Dave Durrison. I mean, there's so many guys
Speaker 1: that we've lost, and then you know it hit home again.
Speaker 1: And I was just on this morning on a zoom call.
Speaker 1: This morning, I'm doing initiative with the American Heart Association
Speaker 1: UM and they've got their heartball coming up and they
Speaker 1: had the big fundraise and we were talking about it
Speaker 1: this morning, m about heart disease and heart health and
Speaker 1: things of that nature. And and and Brad ses Matt actually,
Speaker 1: um you know, Brad, he actually um m c the deal.
Speaker 1: So we were doing a Q and A and we
Speaker 1: were talking about Kwami and never, you never deal with it,
Speaker 1: you never process it because, um you know, last year
Speaker 1: when Kwamie passed away, I was actually in Philly working
Speaker 1: and we were doing the post game show and I
Speaker 1: got a text and it was almost like I needed
Speaker 1: a moment just to step off the set because I
Speaker 1: was in total shop. Um. So you never and when
Speaker 1: you when I'm talking about Kwami, it's like, you know,
Speaker 1: Kwamie got drafted, you know, I think the year after
Speaker 1: I got the Arizona, you know, so he was like
Speaker 1: one of those guys where that this is my this
Speaker 1: is my baby brother man. I mean, it's the guy
Speaker 1: that I helped raise up in the game. And with Jerome,
Speaker 1: it was the same exact way. Jerome came in two
Speaker 1: years after I got the Philadelphia, you know, and I
Speaker 1: can remember and Jerome was supremely talented, you know, supremely
Speaker 1: talented mean, when you're in college, you can get away
Speaker 1: without not working out and not preparing and whatnot. And
Speaker 1: Jerome began to, you know, take on some injuries, and
Speaker 1: I you know, started having a conversation. I'm like, man,
Speaker 1: you got to get yourself you know, you gotta get
Speaker 1: in shape. You gotta get yourself prepared. And he had
Speaker 1: just turned the corner and is I mean I still
Speaker 1: have a video and one of my old phones where
Speaker 1: he is actually bicycling. You know, he got on this outfit,
Speaker 1: you know, just cycling outfit. He's like, yeah, I'm getting
Speaker 1: in shape. I just want you to know I'm getting ready.
Speaker 1: And in a matter of weeks, man, he was gone.
Speaker 1: And then you got a guy like Kwami who had
Speaker 1: a successful career and had this Kwami last of the
Speaker 1: foundation that was doing work with um leukemia because one
Speaker 1: of his kids have it. And it's like, you know,
Speaker 1: and all of a sudden, you know, and I didn't know,
Speaker 1: but he had he knew he had a heart issue,
Speaker 1: and he made a decision to make the lifestyle changes.
Speaker 1: And one day he's like, oh, I don't even need anymore.
Speaker 1: I'm a vegan. I'm like, what you talk about, man,
Speaker 1: you know, but we don't talk about stuff like that,
Speaker 1: you know, and and and the gain. In the world
Speaker 1: of football, we're bred to show no pain and show
Speaker 1: no weakness, you know. So he's not sharing with us
Speaker 1: that that's what's going on. I find out afterwards, you know,
Speaker 1: that he really needed a pace maker. But he made
Speaker 1: the decision that, you know what, my life is at
Speaker 1: guy's hands on to change some things. I'm gonna change
Speaker 1: how I eat, I'm gonna change how I work out.
Speaker 1: He was in the yoga, he was in the you know,
Speaker 1: getting himself in shape. And when you looked at Kwamie,
Speaker 1: he was the picture of health. You would have never
Speaker 1: thought that anything was wrong. And all of a sudden
Speaker 1: he has a massive heart attack and he's gone at
Speaker 1: forty nine years old. You never process that. You never
Speaker 1: get over. I never get on. I mean, I'm fighting
Speaker 1: back the emotions of all of these guys that are
Speaker 1: no longer with us anymore, because it's like, how can
Speaker 1: they be gone? How can I lose so many brethren
Speaker 1: in the game, you know, to whatever the issues have been,
Speaker 1: How could they be gone? You know? But you know,
Speaker 1: when the man stairs calls you home, you're going home.
Speaker 1: It is what it is. Kwamie is one of the
Speaker 1: wisest guys I've ever been around in my life, and
Speaker 1: just it's it's with and his wisdom. It with always
Speaker 1: included wisdom. And I mean any time I've seen him,
Speaker 1: it's literally like I'm seeing my brother and like we
Speaker 1: we've seen each other every day. How important is it
Speaker 1: said for us two? I don't know if I use
Speaker 1: the word check encourage each other when we do see
Speaker 1: each other, how you doing? How you really doing? Is
Speaker 1: there anything that you're going through that we need to know?
Speaker 1: In other words, how would you help legends better help
Speaker 1: each other when we do come together? Well, I mean
Speaker 1: listen that there has to be a mind shift, and
Speaker 1: you know it's already it's underway, but it's it's still
Speaker 1: got a long way to go. The mind shift has
Speaker 1: to be is that you know what I'm your brother,
Speaker 1: and there's nothing that you're going through that I won't
Speaker 1: be here for you for. Okay, a lot of us
Speaker 1: think that sometimes when we're going through things that we
Speaker 1: have to we have to travel this road on our own, because,
Speaker 1: like I said, we've been bred to show no pain,
Speaker 1: to show no weakness. You know, we're like Superman, We'll
Speaker 1: bleed on the inside. We don't ever let you see
Speaker 1: it on the outside. And that's detrimental. Tools that's detrimental
Speaker 1: to all of these guys, you know that we're talking about,
Speaker 1: how do we have those conversations without feeling this sense
Speaker 1: of weakness? How do we get to a point where
Speaker 1: we understand and know that we're not in this life
Speaker 1: you know, by ourselves, we're not in this life alone,
Speaker 1: not only as football players, but as human beings, you know,
Speaker 1: as men of God. We're not in this walk alone,
Speaker 1: you know. And until we come to the realization and
Speaker 1: understand that, you know, then that the change and the
Speaker 1: shift doesn't happen. So when we see each other, not
Speaker 1: only is it hey man, how you doing? I remember
Speaker 1: what it was like back in the day. Hey man,
Speaker 1: how you doing? You know, how are you really doing?
Speaker 1: Is there any sing that I can do for you?
Speaker 1: And you know, is there anything you want to talk about?
Speaker 1: You know, is there anything that we can converse about?
Speaker 1: You know, how's your family? How's your wife? How's your kids?
Speaker 1: You know? You know, dare I say, you know, what's
Speaker 1: your financial situation? Like, you know, can I be of
Speaker 1: assistance to you in any way, and until we can
Speaker 1: get there, you know, then we're gonna continue to have
Speaker 1: some problems, but that's what needs to happen. And then
Speaker 1: small minute steps we're starting to get there, but it
Speaker 1: needs to get there faster because you know, you're talking
Speaker 1: about lives hanging in the balance, and they're also just
Speaker 1: through the league and through the Players Association, player care
Speaker 1: their lifelines, So there are numbers. Sometimes guys may not
Speaker 1: feel comfortable and they feel better with being able to
Speaker 1: pick up the phone and call somebody. So anybody is
Speaker 1: listening the resources that available to help if a person
Speaker 1: is struggling. Here's a quick question set what advice would
Speaker 1: you give current players who in the locker room with guys?
Speaker 1: Because you mentioned your epiphany came when you turned twenty
Speaker 1: eight years old. You came into the league at twenty,
Speaker 1: so that's eight years later. We'll cause your epiphany, and
Speaker 1: what advice do you have to recurrent guys? Well, listen
Speaker 1: to the greatest advice is that when you come to
Speaker 1: the league, you know, whether you're twenty like myself two
Speaker 1: years old, is that you know you really don't know anything.
Speaker 1: You just don't you're still a child. You know. And
Speaker 1: the tough part about you know, being an NFL player,
Speaker 1: you know, the lions share of these young guys who
Speaker 1: come into the league that step out of poverty into um,
Speaker 1: you know, wealth right out right out the gate, is
Speaker 1: that there's a dynamic shift that happens in your family structure,
Speaker 1: um because you come from poverty. And I like it.
Speaker 1: I liken it to this. You know, you become your
Speaker 1: mother's husband, your father's brother, and your siblings dad, you know,
Speaker 1: and you're thrust into you're thrust into a role that
Speaker 1: you're not prepared for. And then at the other end
Speaker 1: of the spectrum, you got a financial guy, you got
Speaker 1: an agent, and these guys are working for you, you know,
Speaker 1: and some of them are pure in their intentions and
Speaker 1: some of them aren't. Some of them listen, it's all
Speaker 1: about the commission, you know, and then you know, you
Speaker 1: might find some guys that that genuinely care about you.
Speaker 1: Educate yourself on as many as many things as you
Speaker 1: possibly can do. Not hire an agent that's not teaching
Speaker 1: you and telling you what the process is, so that
Speaker 1: you know when he goes in and to negotiate for
Speaker 1: you what's being said and what's being done. Don't hire
Speaker 1: someone to manage your money that's not willing to teach
Speaker 1: you along the way, because when your career is over
Speaker 1: and you get to the end, if his intentions aren't pure,
Speaker 1: when the commissionable income for him stops, because now the
Speaker 1: salary stops for you, that relationship now ends, and now
Speaker 1: you're stuck holding you know, the ransom, the ransom share
Speaker 1: of what you earn with no knowledge about how to
Speaker 1: manage it and what to do with and where to
Speaker 1: put it, and how to grow it and how to
Speaker 1: share it, you know, so that education pieces like I
Speaker 1: see so many guys they come in at twenty one
Speaker 1: years old and they retired thirty one years old, and
Speaker 1: that's ten years of life and they haven't grown whatsoever,
Speaker 1: you know, and then life has to beat them up
Speaker 1: in everywhere it manages imaginable for them to you know,
Speaker 1: get to where they need to be, you need to
Speaker 1: continue to grow emotionally, intellectually, more importantly spiritually along the
Speaker 1: way so that by the time you're done, okay, your
Speaker 1: identity is not wrapped up in football, but your identity
Speaker 1: is wrapped up in something bigger than than football, and
Speaker 1: you're able to walk away from the game without any
Speaker 1: regrets and have no feelings and no ill will towards
Speaker 1: the game about you know what you didn't get out
Speaker 1: of the game, and what the and doesn't give you
Speaker 1: anymore because the game only owes you the years that
Speaker 1: you play. When you're done, you're done and and and
Speaker 1: that's the fact. So how do you begin to educate
Speaker 1: guys um to better themselves and everywhere imaginable as they
Speaker 1: go along? The end goal isn't the money, you know,
Speaker 1: the end goal is your growth and what you're able
Speaker 1: to do with the money, not only for your family,
Speaker 1: but in a in a philanthropic type of way after
Speaker 1: you're done. Saith, you wrote a book, did you? You
Speaker 1: didn't write a book, but I got a whole bunch
Speaker 1: of information and a whole bunch of I'm serious about
Speaker 1: that because it goes back to what you mentioned at
Speaker 1: a light to you more, I don't love you mentioned
Speaker 1: it does for it? But what was that light? Why? Why?
Speaker 1: At age? How did you know this? Well? Listen and
Speaker 1: there I'm an avid reader. I wish I could turn
Speaker 1: my turn my my laptop round and show you the
Speaker 1: books that I have and I read all the time.
Speaker 1: And is always that way. Um, it really wasn't always
Speaker 1: that way. I don't know what got me into reading,
Speaker 1: but I love to read. So I was reading this
Speaker 1: book and the it's called Mindset, and it talks about
Speaker 1: a myriad of things, you know, and I was having
Speaker 1: some going through some things with my son, and someone
Speaker 1: recommended the book, and the author talked about, um, the
Speaker 1: development of the mind and how as parents we need
Speaker 1: to be patient with our kids because there's a segment
Speaker 1: of our brain that doesn't develop until we're like two
Speaker 1: years old, maybe even twenty three years old, where the
Speaker 1: things that we're telling our kids they can't even they
Speaker 1: hear it, but they can't even receive, let alone apply it.
Speaker 1: So then it took me back to, you know, when
Speaker 1: I was, when I was young, when I was twenty
Speaker 1: years ago. I can remember picking up the phone one
Speaker 1: day and calling my mom. I was like Mom, thanks,
Speaker 1: She's like, boy, thanks for what I said. Thanks for
Speaker 1: not letting me hang out at Charlie's house because you know,
Speaker 1: he smoked weed and his mom was never home. Thank
Speaker 1: you for you know, giving me a curfew. Thank you
Speaker 1: for having you know, for making me go to church
Speaker 1: every Sunday. Thank you you know, for having your finger
Speaker 1: on the pulse of everything that was going on in
Speaker 1: my life. Because had you not done that, I would
Speaker 1: never be able to I would never I wouldn't be
Speaker 1: where I am today. Okay, So when you talk about
Speaker 1: that light, it's about you know, your growth and how
Speaker 1: you come to realization of the things you know that
Speaker 1: are going on in your life and in your world.
Speaker 1: I can't say that it was any one thing, but
Speaker 1: I do know by the time, you know, I was
Speaker 1: twenty eight years old, twenty nine years old. You know,
Speaker 1: even though you know I was blessed to live my dream,
Speaker 1: there were some things going on in my life that
Speaker 1: you know that everybody didn't see. And wasn't you know,
Speaker 1: a party too, But life was beating me up man.
Speaker 1: I mean I was divorced and you know, there was
Speaker 1: all kinds of things that were going on in my life.
Speaker 1: Um that contributed to the light coming on. And and
Speaker 1: you know, how do you share those moments and how
Speaker 1: do you get people to understand that those moments are real,
Speaker 1: that those moments are coming In the moment of those moments,
Speaker 1: what do you do? How do you deal? How do
Speaker 1: you make the ships, how do you make those changes
Speaker 1: in your life. The final part of one cover is
Speaker 1: the set join the show. Now tell me about that.
Speaker 1: How did you start a podcast and you're still doing
Speaker 1: work back in Philadelphia with TV. Well, so it started
Speaker 1: after I retired. I wanted to. I felt like I
Speaker 1: could go into broadcasting because of, you know, my knowledge
Speaker 1: of the game. So the whole first year of the
Speaker 1: NFL Network was on the air. I was on air,
Speaker 1: you know, and I was hard. I was terribed. Listen.
Speaker 1: There's no fans or buts about it, you know, because
Speaker 1: there's a there's a market difference in theres between you know,
Speaker 1: standing and doing an interview with you know, a reporter
Speaker 1: at your locker and you being on camera and that
Speaker 1: red light comes on and you know there's a couple
Speaker 1: of million people out there watching you. You know, it's
Speaker 1: it's a massive difference. So that first year went by
Speaker 1: and I actually hated I hated. I did it for
Speaker 1: a whole year, but I hated it. I hated the
Speaker 1: business of it. I hated you know, everything about it,
Speaker 1: and I really didn't want to be in broadcasting anymore. Um.
Speaker 1: It just so happened that an opportunity presented itself for me.
Speaker 1: Um an agent called me when Donovan was leaving Fox.
Speaker 1: This guy wanted to throw my name into the hat
Speaker 1: for the job. Well, I didn't get it, and he
Speaker 1: connected me with NBC Sports or comcasts in Philadelphia, and
Speaker 1: then I was like, okay, I'll try it. I'm you know,
Speaker 1: I know the business is like, but I was ready
Speaker 1: at that time to actually do it, and I really
Speaker 1: over the years, I've gotten pretty good at it. So
Speaker 1: what I wanted to do is like, I want to
Speaker 1: do my own podcast. It's one thing to do a
Speaker 1: show directors in your ibat telling you, you know, we're
Speaker 1: gonna talk about this, We're gonna go to break here,
Speaker 1: you know, cut you know all of that. I wanted
Speaker 1: to do a show that was mine, that I could control,
Speaker 1: that I could talk about what I wanted to, that
Speaker 1: I could bring my guests on, that I could talk
Speaker 1: about all the things in the game that I wanted
Speaker 1: to talk to that time wouldn't allow me to do.
Speaker 1: And my duties on the pre and post game for
Speaker 1: NBC Sports Philly for the Eagles. Two years ago, I
Speaker 1: actually started my own podcast. It didn't grow. The season
Speaker 1: was over. I made the mistake of stopping as soon
Speaker 1: as the season was over. You know, so you can't
Speaker 1: do that. If you're gonna do a podcast, you gotta
Speaker 1: do a podcast every week because people want the content,
Speaker 1: they want the information. So I decided this offseason, in
Speaker 1: the midst of the pandemic, I decided, Okay, I'm gonna
Speaker 1: do a podcast. Okay. The first couple of shows I
Speaker 1: had on Charles Barkley, you know, I had people like that.
Speaker 1: And then when this Zoom thing hit, I turned to
Speaker 1: my team, I'm like, we got to do zoom. That's
Speaker 1: the way to go, you know. So then we started
Speaker 1: to do the Zoom and realizing that I could have
Speaker 1: multiple people on at at at the same time. You know,
Speaker 1: one of my first Zoom shows was the show where
Speaker 1: I had the four quarterbacks on. So I had the
Speaker 1: four quarterbacks on, I had Harold Carmichael, Who's just who's
Speaker 1: going into the Hall of Fame this year, Mike, That's
Speaker 1: where should we get that out? Harold cale Michael? Right,
Speaker 1: So I had those I had, you know. So my
Speaker 1: thing was, Okay, I want to get the top players
Speaker 1: at every position on the podcast, um and do a
Speaker 1: show and have those guys interact and because they're from
Speaker 1: different eras and um, and that was the genesis of
Speaker 1: you know. So now UM, I do it every Tuesday
Speaker 1: from seven thirty, seven thirty to eight thirty and on
Speaker 1: YouTube Facebook Live. UM. You know, we do giveaways. And
Speaker 1: I'm about to implement you know, a chalk talk segment
Speaker 1: into it, you know, in the next couple of weeks.
Speaker 1: And I think that you know, while it's it's good
Speaker 1: to you know service you know the Philly market because
Speaker 1: I work in that market, in order for me to
Speaker 1: really make this thing grow, I think I'm gonna have
Speaker 1: to expand it and start talking more overall, NFL said,
Speaker 1: this has been outstanding, the synergy here and and listening
Speaker 1: to you man, and let's continue to get the word
Speaker 1: out for guys to genuinely when we see each other,
Speaker 1: connect and ask questions and even make sure we keep
Speaker 1: on our person that number for the lifeline because sometimes
Speaker 1: just guys being able to call somebody even if they
Speaker 1: don't know who they are, because they may not feel
Speaker 1: comfortable telling us everything right and listen, there are a
Speaker 1: lot of resources that are available to retire players, um,
Speaker 1: you know, and you know the PA alumni associations, you know,
Speaker 1: they try to do the best job that they can.
Speaker 1: The legend they try to do the best job they
Speaker 1: can to get that information out, but sometimes the information
Speaker 1: just doesn't get out, you know, and sometimes you know,
Speaker 1: these guys are suffering through things and they're like nobody cares.
Speaker 1: You know, there's there's not a voice. You know too,
Speaker 1: that there's not an ear from my voice, there's not
Speaker 1: a shoulder for me lean on. You know. We've got
Speaker 1: to figure out a way, you know, to ensure that
Speaker 1: every single guy who is an NFL Brethren that he
Speaker 1: understands and knows what these resources are and where they
Speaker 1: are and how to access it. You know, because even
Speaker 1: I listen, I've been, I've been. This is my twenty
Speaker 1: first year of retirement and news and I'm still learning
Speaker 1: and figuring out what resources are available to me, you know,
Speaker 1: and how my life can be enhanced by some of
Speaker 1: these resources. So for some of these guys who who
Speaker 1: are experiencing you know, helplessness and hopelessness, you know, there
Speaker 1: is hope that is available, but if they don't know
Speaker 1: about it, they can't access it, they can't hear in
Speaker 1: this situation around, they can't get the help that they need.
Speaker 1: And we need to figure out a better way of
Speaker 1: getting this information to all of these guys so that
Speaker 1: you know, so that they can turn their lives around
Speaker 1: and have you know, productive lives and and extend their
Speaker 1: their lives from a health perspective as well. And one
Speaker 1: of the things Tracy Pearlman, Troy Vincent and the entire
Speaker 1: Legends directors and coordinators and these guys throughout the region.
Speaker 1: So just a matter of reaching out that this has
Speaker 1: been great. This has been fantastic, Thanks for joining us,
Speaker 1: and the best is yet to come. Man, you got
Speaker 1: my friend. Anytime. This has been the NFL Legends podcast.
Speaker 1: To provide feedback or request the topic for discussion, email
Speaker 1: us at NFL Legends at nfl dot com.