1 00:00:04,640 --> 00:00:07,280 Speaker 1: Sitting at a pool bar in Masack, listening to covers 2 00:00:07,280 --> 00:00:09,720 Speaker 1: of Credence songs by the house band and losing at 3 00:00:09,760 --> 00:00:12,280 Speaker 1: pool against Andy and the boys. It's hard to think 4 00:00:12,320 --> 00:00:15,840 Speaker 1: of them hold up behind a barricade clutching molotovs. But 5 00:00:15,920 --> 00:00:18,599 Speaker 1: not so long ago, the choices the boys faced were 6 00:00:18,640 --> 00:00:21,720 Speaker 1: pretty stark. Every day, every time they went out from 7 00:00:21,720 --> 00:00:24,319 Speaker 1: their little apartment, they knew they might not come back. 8 00:00:24,960 --> 00:00:27,280 Speaker 2: But I think the most fucked up thing that we 9 00:00:27,320 --> 00:00:30,680 Speaker 2: had to plan was what if someone get shot one 10 00:00:30,720 --> 00:00:33,400 Speaker 2: of us and the other person have to go carry. 11 00:00:34,880 --> 00:00:35,800 Speaker 3: Who do you go? 12 00:00:36,040 --> 00:00:36,680 Speaker 2: Who gets hit? 13 00:00:36,840 --> 00:00:37,000 Speaker 3: You know? 14 00:00:37,080 --> 00:00:39,120 Speaker 2: And we had to kind of like what we did 15 00:00:39,440 --> 00:00:43,080 Speaker 2: just now, but like, okay, if I get hit, you know, 16 00:00:44,040 --> 00:00:46,760 Speaker 2: two of you, this, this, and this person will come 17 00:00:46,760 --> 00:00:48,800 Speaker 2: out and you know, do this to me because it's 18 00:00:50,840 --> 00:00:54,480 Speaker 2: I don't know. I think we were planning because it's 19 00:00:54,520 --> 00:00:57,240 Speaker 2: just good to have that, you know, because if someone 20 00:00:57,280 --> 00:00:59,200 Speaker 2: gets shot and if all of five of us go 21 00:00:59,360 --> 00:01:02,400 Speaker 2: ran in there, there's more targets, you know what I mean. 22 00:01:02,480 --> 00:01:05,800 Speaker 2: So then like if someone would wait, lass weight get shots, 23 00:01:05,840 --> 00:01:08,480 Speaker 2: then you know this person go, if someone heavier get shot, 24 00:01:08,560 --> 00:01:10,559 Speaker 2: this two person go. Something like that. 25 00:01:10,800 --> 00:01:13,800 Speaker 1: When Andy says like we did earlier. He's talking about 26 00:01:13,840 --> 00:01:16,240 Speaker 1: a small stop the bleed type course that we had 27 00:01:16,280 --> 00:01:19,960 Speaker 1: given the boys. Most journalists operating in war zones will 28 00:01:19,959 --> 00:01:22,960 Speaker 1: take at minimum a week long Hostile Environment and First 29 00:01:23,000 --> 00:01:26,000 Speaker 1: Aid training or he FAT course. Many of us will 30 00:01:26,040 --> 00:01:29,000 Speaker 1: take extra courses. James and I both refreshed our Wilderness 31 00:01:29,080 --> 00:01:32,600 Speaker 1: first Responder certificates once we had this trip planned. Andy 32 00:01:32,600 --> 00:01:34,600 Speaker 1: and his brothers didn't have access to any of this. 33 00:01:34,880 --> 00:01:37,040 Speaker 1: They learned what they could off the internet and tried 34 00:01:37,040 --> 00:01:39,280 Speaker 1: to protect themselves as best as they were able with 35 00:01:39,360 --> 00:01:42,640 Speaker 1: gear they purchased from an airsoft store. The afternoon we 36 00:01:42,680 --> 00:01:45,720 Speaker 1: spent practicing skills. Wasn't nearly enough, but until they can 37 00:01:45,760 --> 00:01:47,919 Speaker 1: travel safely more than a few miles from the border, 38 00:01:48,080 --> 00:01:50,960 Speaker 1: it was better than nothing. Their little apartment had one 39 00:01:50,960 --> 00:01:53,480 Speaker 1: way in and one way out. If the cops came, 40 00:01:53,720 --> 00:01:56,600 Speaker 1: there was no escape. They had a plan for that too. 41 00:01:57,280 --> 00:02:00,080 Speaker 2: Yeah, So our plan was literally just to burn that 42 00:02:00,280 --> 00:02:02,800 Speaker 2: fucking door down so then it would be difficult for 43 00:02:02,840 --> 00:02:05,040 Speaker 2: them to come in. And then you know, we'll do 44 00:02:05,160 --> 00:02:07,040 Speaker 2: I don't know, whatever we can with the weapon we have, 45 00:02:08,440 --> 00:02:09,800 Speaker 2: but we weren't going to make it out, you know, 46 00:02:09,840 --> 00:02:12,280 Speaker 2: And how to do plan all that with these kids, 47 00:02:12,320 --> 00:02:14,320 Speaker 2: like it's like fucked up. There were times that like 48 00:02:14,400 --> 00:02:17,600 Speaker 2: they wake up a nice greaming like they you know 49 00:02:17,680 --> 00:02:20,040 Speaker 2: they I think now it's better, Right, it's been a 50 00:02:20,120 --> 00:02:23,320 Speaker 2: year and a half and we are like we're better 51 00:02:23,320 --> 00:02:26,079 Speaker 2: at coping with it. But at that time it was very, 52 00:02:26,200 --> 00:02:27,160 Speaker 2: very scary. 53 00:02:27,320 --> 00:02:29,360 Speaker 1: So that they'd be prepared to burn their door and 54 00:02:29,400 --> 00:02:32,000 Speaker 1: the rest of their apartment down around themselves. The boys 55 00:02:32,080 --> 00:02:34,880 Speaker 1: kept a stockpile of molotovs mixed and ready by the 56 00:02:34,919 --> 00:02:37,720 Speaker 1: front door at all times. They lived in a state 57 00:02:37,760 --> 00:02:41,720 Speaker 1: of permanent readiness to commit revolutionary suicide for weeks on end. 58 00:02:42,520 --> 00:02:56,120 Speaker 1: Eventually they decided they had to flee. We should probably 59 00:02:56,160 --> 00:02:59,200 Speaker 1: talk history here for just a little bit. Me and 60 00:02:59,240 --> 00:03:02,119 Speaker 1: mar is a now for a very old land. Over 61 00:03:02,160 --> 00:03:04,760 Speaker 1: the centuries, it's been ruled by a series of empires 62 00:03:04,760 --> 00:03:07,600 Speaker 1: and dynasties. The Mongols took over for a while in 63 00:03:07,639 --> 00:03:09,959 Speaker 1: the twelve hundreds and thirteen hundreds, and when they left 64 00:03:10,280 --> 00:03:13,119 Speaker 1: Lower Burma had a warring states period of its own. 65 00:03:13,480 --> 00:03:15,959 Speaker 1: The modern nation of Burma didn't start to come together 66 00:03:16,080 --> 00:03:19,200 Speaker 1: until the sixteen hundreds and seventeen hundreds, and things didn't 67 00:03:19,200 --> 00:03:21,920 Speaker 1: really congeal into a state until the reign of the 68 00:03:22,000 --> 00:03:25,760 Speaker 1: last two Burmese kings, who industrialized the country and reformed 69 00:03:25,760 --> 00:03:28,240 Speaker 1: its military enough to win a series of wars against 70 00:03:28,280 --> 00:03:32,240 Speaker 1: neighboring groups like the Irakan. This is what brought them 71 00:03:32,240 --> 00:03:34,920 Speaker 1: into conflict with the British Raj right at the turn 72 00:03:34,960 --> 00:03:38,960 Speaker 1: of the nineteenth century. Their wars were sending refugees into India, 73 00:03:39,120 --> 00:03:41,920 Speaker 1: and the Burmese king's designs on Thailand and British controlled 74 00:03:41,960 --> 00:03:45,520 Speaker 1: Bangladesh led to a policy wherein the Bridge supported insurgent 75 00:03:45,640 --> 00:03:49,040 Speaker 1: fighters who struck out at Burmese positions. A series of 76 00:03:49,080 --> 00:03:52,320 Speaker 1: near clashes between British and Burmese forces followed, and in 77 00:03:52,400 --> 00:03:56,000 Speaker 1: January of eighteen twenty four, the Burmese king Bagidah gave 78 00:03:56,040 --> 00:03:59,520 Speaker 1: his generals the order to attack a pair of brutal 79 00:03:59,560 --> 00:04:03,240 Speaker 1: jungle wars. Wars followed, and despite winning several victories early on, 80 00:04:03,400 --> 00:04:07,520 Speaker 1: Burmese troops were crushed comprehensively whenever they engaged British forces 81 00:04:07,520 --> 00:04:11,800 Speaker 1: in conventional battles. In January of eighteen eighty six, British 82 00:04:11,800 --> 00:04:14,680 Speaker 1: forces entered the capital, Mandalay and brought an end to 83 00:04:14,760 --> 00:04:19,599 Speaker 1: Burmese independence for almost sixty years. These are the broad 84 00:04:19,680 --> 00:04:22,200 Speaker 1: strokes of the story, as you'll find them summed up 85 00:04:22,200 --> 00:04:25,880 Speaker 1: in almost any history book. As with most colonial history, 86 00:04:26,040 --> 00:04:30,800 Speaker 1: the reality is somewhat messier than that. The Burmese Empire 87 00:04:30,920 --> 00:04:34,280 Speaker 1: the British destroyed was dominated heavily by the Bumah people, 88 00:04:34,520 --> 00:04:37,159 Speaker 1: who gave the colony its name, but there were other 89 00:04:37,160 --> 00:04:41,279 Speaker 1: peoples in the territory. They claimed the Shin, the kirn Urakan, 90 00:04:41,600 --> 00:04:45,440 Speaker 1: the Rohinga, and dozens. More Like most empires dominated by 91 00:04:45,480 --> 00:04:49,200 Speaker 1: a single ethnicity, they were brutal. Father San Germano, who 92 00:04:49,240 --> 00:04:52,279 Speaker 1: lived in pre Raj Burma, wrote of the king, he 93 00:04:52,400 --> 00:04:56,120 Speaker 1: is considered by himself and others absolute lord of the lives, properties, 94 00:04:56,160 --> 00:04:59,919 Speaker 1: and personal services of his subjects. He exalts and oppresses, confers, 95 00:05:00,160 --> 00:05:03,120 Speaker 1: takes away honor and rank, and without any process of law, 96 00:05:03,320 --> 00:05:06,280 Speaker 1: can put to death not only criminals guilty of capital offenses, 97 00:05:06,640 --> 00:05:10,120 Speaker 1: but any individual who happens to incur his displeasure. It 98 00:05:10,200 --> 00:05:12,360 Speaker 1: is here a perilous thing for a person to become 99 00:05:12,400 --> 00:05:15,320 Speaker 1: distinguished for wealth and possessions, for the day may easily 100 00:05:15,360 --> 00:05:17,920 Speaker 1: come when he will be charged with some supposed crime 101 00:05:18,120 --> 00:05:20,560 Speaker 1: and so put to death in order that his property 102 00:05:20,560 --> 00:05:24,240 Speaker 1: may be confiscated. Every subject is the Emperor's born slave, 103 00:05:24,480 --> 00:05:26,960 Speaker 1: and when he calls anyone his slave, he thinks thereby 104 00:05:27,040 --> 00:05:30,600 Speaker 1: to do him honor. Hence, also he considers himself entitled 105 00:05:30,640 --> 00:05:33,400 Speaker 1: to employ his subjects in any work of service without 106 00:05:33,440 --> 00:05:36,160 Speaker 1: salary or pay, and if he makes them any recompense, 107 00:05:36,400 --> 00:05:38,680 Speaker 1: it is done not from a sense of justice, but 108 00:05:38,760 --> 00:05:42,240 Speaker 1: as an act of bounty. And while Bagidah was a 109 00:05:42,240 --> 00:05:45,400 Speaker 1: fairly modern king, brutality like this went back hundreds of 110 00:05:45,480 --> 00:05:48,239 Speaker 1: years in the region. Most of the kings and princes 111 00:05:48,240 --> 00:05:50,240 Speaker 1: and other people who ruled the land we now call 112 00:05:50,320 --> 00:05:53,360 Speaker 1: me Anmar did so with brutal force and an awful 113 00:05:53,400 --> 00:05:56,599 Speaker 1: lot of conscription. This is broadly true of much of 114 00:05:56,640 --> 00:05:59,880 Speaker 1: Southeast Asia. Western histories of this region tend to flatten 115 00:05:59,880 --> 00:06:02,680 Speaker 1: life into kingdoms and empires and assume life in the 116 00:06:02,760 --> 00:06:06,919 Speaker 1: region coincided politically with the lines drawn on maps. This 117 00:06:07,160 --> 00:06:10,440 Speaker 1: was never the case. Much of mainland Southeast Asia, from 118 00:06:10,480 --> 00:06:13,919 Speaker 1: the central highlands of Vietnam through Myanmar, northeast India, and 119 00:06:14,000 --> 00:06:18,120 Speaker 1: several southern Chinese provinces, is filled with terrifying mountains and 120 00:06:18,200 --> 00:06:22,479 Speaker 1: brutal hills covered with the densest jungle imaginable standing in 121 00:06:22,520 --> 00:06:25,560 Speaker 1: Maysot and staring across the border into Myanmar, all you 122 00:06:25,680 --> 00:06:29,120 Speaker 1: see is a vast expanse of jagged, deep green peaks 123 00:06:29,440 --> 00:06:33,560 Speaker 1: rolling endlessly on. James and I are both experienced backpackers, 124 00:06:33,680 --> 00:06:35,359 Speaker 1: and neither of us would have wanted to take on 125 00:06:35,400 --> 00:06:38,720 Speaker 1: that terrain without quality gear and weeks of endurance training. 126 00:06:39,560 --> 00:06:43,200 Speaker 1: In an era of four plains, helicopters, or satellite communications, 127 00:06:43,400 --> 00:06:46,960 Speaker 1: this area was practically ungovernable. People were aware of this 128 00:06:47,040 --> 00:06:49,920 Speaker 1: at the time, and for roughly the last two thousand years, 129 00:06:50,240 --> 00:06:54,120 Speaker 1: this chunk of highland Southeast Asia, known to political scientists 130 00:06:54,160 --> 00:06:57,480 Speaker 1: as Zomia, has been a refuge for people pushed out 131 00:06:57,520 --> 00:06:59,760 Speaker 1: and put down by the great state powers of the 132 00:06:59,800 --> 00:07:03,320 Speaker 1: air area. Empires and kings would stick to the coasts 133 00:07:03,320 --> 00:07:06,840 Speaker 1: and the flat plains, perfect for cultivating rice. When they 134 00:07:06,920 --> 00:07:09,920 Speaker 1: taxed their subjects too hard or conscripted too many of 135 00:07:09,960 --> 00:07:12,560 Speaker 1: them into the military, some would flee to the hills 136 00:07:12,600 --> 00:07:16,080 Speaker 1: to take their freedom. As James C. Scott, a Yale 137 00:07:16,120 --> 00:07:20,000 Speaker 1: polysci professor, writes, the frontier operated as a rough and 138 00:07:20,080 --> 00:07:24,040 Speaker 1: ready homeostatic device. The more estate pressed its subjects, the 139 00:07:24,080 --> 00:07:28,800 Speaker 1: fewer subjects it had. The Frontier under rote freedom. He 140 00:07:28,880 --> 00:07:31,800 Speaker 1: calls the people who chose to inhabit this stateless zone 141 00:07:32,000 --> 00:07:35,720 Speaker 1: barbarians by choice. While many of these ethnic groups were 142 00:07:35,760 --> 00:07:38,800 Speaker 1: mocked for their lack of so called civilized values like 143 00:07:38,840 --> 00:07:42,920 Speaker 1: widespread literacy, Scott argues that this lack was actually a 144 00:07:42,960 --> 00:07:46,720 Speaker 1: conscious rejection. Their refusal to educate themselves in a manner 145 00:07:46,760 --> 00:07:49,480 Speaker 1: acceptable to the powers of the day was a rebellion 146 00:07:49,480 --> 00:07:53,800 Speaker 1: against the legitimacy of those powers and their standards. Human 147 00:07:53,920 --> 00:07:56,800 Speaker 1: history in our modern globe is filled with places like this, 148 00:07:57,400 --> 00:08:00,040 Speaker 1: muddied areas at the borders of great powers, where the 149 00:08:00,080 --> 00:08:04,400 Speaker 1: detritus of war, refugees and beaten soldiers can congregate without 150 00:08:04,480 --> 00:08:07,400 Speaker 1: fear of the state. The term for these places is 151 00:08:07,520 --> 00:08:12,600 Speaker 1: shatter zones. Rojava, the radical feminist enclave in northeast Syria, 152 00:08:12,720 --> 00:08:15,080 Speaker 1: would be one example of a shatter zone and the 153 00:08:15,160 --> 00:08:19,840 Speaker 1: unique political potential such places have. Myanmar is by land mass, 154 00:08:20,080 --> 00:08:23,880 Speaker 1: mostly shatter zones, and since nineteen forty nine, different ethnic 155 00:08:24,040 --> 00:08:27,000 Speaker 1: armed organizations have existed in a more or less constant 156 00:08:27,040 --> 00:08:30,360 Speaker 1: conflict with the state. This includes the Karin people, whose 157 00:08:30,440 --> 00:08:34,600 Speaker 1: territory borders Thailand. When the young millennial and Zoomer protesters 158 00:08:34,600 --> 00:08:36,600 Speaker 1: in the cities realized they were going to have to 159 00:08:36,640 --> 00:08:39,920 Speaker 1: flee their homes to continue the fight. Korin territory was 160 00:08:39,960 --> 00:08:42,840 Speaker 1: a natural place to retreat to. People had been making 161 00:08:42,960 --> 00:08:46,760 Speaker 1: versions of the same decision for two thousand years. The 162 00:08:46,800 --> 00:08:50,840 Speaker 1: current situation between the Koran and Mianmar's military junta actually 163 00:08:50,840 --> 00:08:53,360 Speaker 1: owes a lot to the British Empire. When they took 164 00:08:53,400 --> 00:08:55,440 Speaker 1: over in Myanmar, they had to figure out how to 165 00:08:55,480 --> 00:08:57,839 Speaker 1: govern it, and they went with the tactic that had 166 00:08:57,840 --> 00:09:01,000 Speaker 1: served them well all across India and Africaica. They picked 167 00:09:01,040 --> 00:09:04,199 Speaker 1: a minority ethnic group to act as their colonial shock troops. 168 00:09:04,720 --> 00:09:08,040 Speaker 1: In Uganda, their preferred warrior race were the Kokwa people, 169 00:09:08,160 --> 00:09:12,160 Speaker 1: from whom future dictator Idiamine descended. For their colonial troops 170 00:09:12,160 --> 00:09:15,160 Speaker 1: in India, the Brits used Sikhs and Gurkhas, and in 171 00:09:15,200 --> 00:09:19,360 Speaker 1: colonial Burma they used the Karin. Ever since the British left, 172 00:09:19,440 --> 00:09:21,840 Speaker 1: the Karin have wanted as little as possible to do 173 00:09:21,920 --> 00:09:25,320 Speaker 1: with the central government in Napiadah. Instead, they fought to 174 00:09:25,360 --> 00:09:29,120 Speaker 1: maintain Kadulay, a land without darkness, as they were promised 175 00:09:29,160 --> 00:09:32,920 Speaker 1: in Burma's nineteen forty eight constitution. Today, they might not 176 00:09:33,000 --> 00:09:35,480 Speaker 1: be recognized by the UN or the US, but the 177 00:09:35,559 --> 00:09:38,760 Speaker 1: Korin have their own schools, hospitals, and army. They have 178 00:09:38,840 --> 00:09:42,520 Speaker 1: been at war since nineteen forty nine. Andy, whose father 179 00:09:42,640 --> 00:09:45,719 Speaker 1: is Karin, only really found out about the struggle for Quadulay, 180 00:09:46,000 --> 00:09:48,679 Speaker 1: a home for the Karin language peoples, when he became 181 00:09:48,720 --> 00:09:51,920 Speaker 1: a refugee. He moved into the camps along the border 182 00:09:51,960 --> 00:09:55,120 Speaker 1: after the Saffron Revolution. He was only eight years old. 183 00:09:55,679 --> 00:09:58,000 Speaker 1: The border is dotted with camps, some of them more 184 00:09:58,120 --> 00:10:01,080 Speaker 1: like towns, but they're always timber. And while the Thai 185 00:10:01,120 --> 00:10:04,600 Speaker 1: government tolerates the Karin presence, people there are seen as 186 00:10:04,679 --> 00:10:08,640 Speaker 1: temporarily displaced. They can't build solid homes and don't have 187 00:10:08,679 --> 00:10:12,400 Speaker 1: the identity documents they need to travel even internally in Thailand. 188 00:10:12,880 --> 00:10:16,440 Speaker 1: Despite not growing up there. Andy's identity cards, says Karin, 189 00:10:17,280 --> 00:10:19,560 Speaker 1: It doesn't take a PhD in history to know that 190 00:10:19,600 --> 00:10:24,000 Speaker 1: ethnic identity cards issued by imperial and formerly postcolonial governments 191 00:10:24,200 --> 00:10:27,280 Speaker 1: are bad news. But if you need more information about that, 192 00:10:27,440 --> 00:10:30,160 Speaker 1: maybe google ID cards Comma, Rwanda. 193 00:10:34,160 --> 00:10:36,720 Speaker 4: Like most people in most places, the young people from 194 00:10:36,720 --> 00:10:39,720 Speaker 4: Miamma we talked to had thought relatively little about the 195 00:10:39,760 --> 00:10:42,439 Speaker 4: injustices on the edge of their world. They tend to 196 00:10:42,440 --> 00:10:44,360 Speaker 4: think of the Koran as terrorist up in the hills 197 00:10:44,559 --> 00:10:48,240 Speaker 4: rather than freedom fighters. But once a topmodor started unloading 198 00:10:48,280 --> 00:10:51,600 Speaker 4: machine guns into crowds, people were confronted with the reality 199 00:10:51,600 --> 00:10:53,840 Speaker 4: of a situation that they'd been able to ignore before. 200 00:10:54,960 --> 00:10:58,240 Speaker 4: Suddenly they saw that the Koran and other marginalized ethnic 201 00:10:58,280 --> 00:11:01,040 Speaker 4: groups were victims of the same gun violence that they 202 00:11:01,120 --> 00:11:03,959 Speaker 4: now faced. But now that the scales had fallen from 203 00:11:03,960 --> 00:11:06,640 Speaker 4: their eyes, they were going to do something about it. 204 00:11:07,400 --> 00:11:11,760 Speaker 2: The main majority of groups people there are current people, 205 00:11:11,800 --> 00:11:17,839 Speaker 2: which is another ethnic groups from Memoir, and they they 206 00:11:17,880 --> 00:11:22,160 Speaker 2: had a different view, right because obviously the military. While 207 00:11:22,280 --> 00:11:24,240 Speaker 2: we were like because we were born in the city, 208 00:11:24,360 --> 00:11:28,160 Speaker 2: we were more like you know, like we didn't suffer 209 00:11:28,240 --> 00:11:30,000 Speaker 2: that much, even though it wasn't that great, you know. 210 00:11:30,040 --> 00:11:32,600 Speaker 2: But then for them, the military come to their states, 211 00:11:32,600 --> 00:11:35,640 Speaker 2: the military come to their villages, they burned the villages, 212 00:11:35,679 --> 00:11:37,600 Speaker 2: they kill the people, they read the people, you know, 213 00:11:37,640 --> 00:11:42,200 Speaker 2: they do all these atrocities. So then they have a 214 00:11:42,320 --> 00:11:44,720 Speaker 2: very different view on the Memar military and how the 215 00:11:44,760 --> 00:11:50,240 Speaker 2: country is you know, working doing. And so that's when 216 00:11:50,240 --> 00:11:52,920 Speaker 2: I started learning, oh shit, like there is some other 217 00:11:53,280 --> 00:11:55,640 Speaker 2: stuff going on in the country, but you know, like 218 00:11:55,720 --> 00:11:58,160 Speaker 2: you kind of just like you kind of just live 219 00:11:58,240 --> 00:12:00,360 Speaker 2: with your life. You know, your kid, You're trying to 220 00:12:01,000 --> 00:12:03,240 Speaker 2: get by day to day, so you didn't really think 221 00:12:03,240 --> 00:12:06,800 Speaker 2: about it. And for me that going on, that went 222 00:12:06,840 --> 00:12:10,520 Speaker 2: on for a long time until the military could happen 223 00:12:10,760 --> 00:12:11,440 Speaker 2: in Ya. 224 00:12:11,400 --> 00:12:14,040 Speaker 4: Mic the present revolution is not the only flare up 225 00:12:14,080 --> 00:12:16,880 Speaker 4: of inter ethnic violence in the country. In twenty seventeen, 226 00:12:17,040 --> 00:12:21,800 Speaker 4: the Tatmodor under ming An Klan began a conservative campaign 227 00:12:21,800 --> 00:12:25,440 Speaker 4: of genocidal ethnic cleansing against the Rhinia people, a largely 228 00:12:25,520 --> 00:12:27,880 Speaker 4: Muslim ethnic group who live in the country's were a 229 00:12:27,920 --> 00:12:33,040 Speaker 4: kind state. The Tatmodor, claiming the Rhinia were variously terrorists 230 00:12:33,160 --> 00:12:36,120 Speaker 4: or illegal immigrants native to modern day Bangladesh and hence 231 00:12:36,160 --> 00:12:39,520 Speaker 4: not native to mih and Mar, spent months raping, killing, 232 00:12:39,640 --> 00:12:42,839 Speaker 4: and burning the villages of the Rhininggia people. While the world, 233 00:12:43,120 --> 00:12:46,679 Speaker 4: perhaps distracted by a neoliberal consensus which demonizes both migrants 234 00:12:46,720 --> 00:12:51,000 Speaker 4: and Muslims, did fuck all to stop them. In Myanmar, 235 00:12:51,559 --> 00:12:54,800 Speaker 4: nobody spoke about the genocide, at least not in those terms. 236 00:12:55,400 --> 00:12:57,920 Speaker 4: Most people didn't even speak about the Rhindia in those terms. 237 00:12:57,960 --> 00:13:01,840 Speaker 4: Because Tatmodor propaganda was so effect that citizens in Yangon 238 00:13:02,160 --> 00:13:05,120 Speaker 4: really believed that their Hingia were migrants and terrorists coming 239 00:13:05,120 --> 00:13:08,960 Speaker 4: from Bangladesh. Government newspapers like The New Light of Myanmar 240 00:13:09,559 --> 00:13:14,120 Speaker 4: published daily stories linking them to groups like ISIS or Arkaeda, who, 241 00:13:14,200 --> 00:13:17,320 Speaker 4: despite their best efforts, remained totally irrelevant in this story. 242 00:13:18,200 --> 00:13:21,280 Speaker 4: Bots popped up on Facebook, which is basically synonymous with 243 00:13:21,320 --> 00:13:24,080 Speaker 4: the Internet for many people living in Myanmar, and fed 244 00:13:24,120 --> 00:13:27,600 Speaker 4: a steady diet of anti Rehingia hate speech into political discourse, 245 00:13:28,280 --> 00:13:33,440 Speaker 4: gradually shifting the Overton window towards genocide. And without better information, 246 00:13:33,520 --> 00:13:37,760 Speaker 4: most people believe them, and these Western friends, probably weirdos 247 00:13:37,760 --> 00:13:39,920 Speaker 4: like me who had crept into his DMS at some point, 248 00:13:40,280 --> 00:13:41,640 Speaker 4: started to ask him questions. 249 00:13:42,760 --> 00:13:44,800 Speaker 2: So the Rundan thing happened in two thousand and seventeen. 250 00:13:44,800 --> 00:13:48,640 Speaker 2: I was seventeen, and you know, we started hearing it. 251 00:13:48,960 --> 00:13:51,440 Speaker 2: I started getting phone calls from my friend in the 252 00:13:51,480 --> 00:13:55,240 Speaker 2: western countries, like Westerners. They would be like, Hey, what's 253 00:13:55,280 --> 00:13:57,320 Speaker 2: happening in your country? Why are you killing like all 254 00:13:57,360 --> 00:14:00,080 Speaker 2: the Muslims? And I'm like, mess out Tiler, and I'm like, 255 00:14:00,520 --> 00:14:02,840 Speaker 2: I don't know what you're talking about. I've never heard 256 00:14:02,840 --> 00:14:07,360 Speaker 2: anything like that, right, and so yeah, and then like 257 00:14:07,400 --> 00:14:09,400 Speaker 2: I try to learn a little bit more. But everyone 258 00:14:09,520 --> 00:14:13,440 Speaker 2: had so intense opinions about it that at some point 259 00:14:13,480 --> 00:14:15,440 Speaker 2: I'm like, ah, fuck, I don't know anymore, you know, 260 00:14:15,480 --> 00:14:18,320 Speaker 2: because the military was in control at that time, still 261 00:14:18,400 --> 00:14:22,120 Speaker 2: kind of so they control the news, they control the media, 262 00:14:22,400 --> 00:14:24,440 Speaker 2: they control it's the same thing, you know, like they 263 00:14:24,640 --> 00:14:27,920 Speaker 2: control who were saying what, and so we never hear 264 00:14:27,920 --> 00:14:30,960 Speaker 2: about it that much. If you only, if only you 265 00:14:31,040 --> 00:14:33,480 Speaker 2: care so much and you're following everyone that is saying 266 00:14:33,880 --> 00:14:37,800 Speaker 2: you know the truth, then you know. But otherwise you 267 00:14:38,160 --> 00:14:41,720 Speaker 2: didn't know. It was all very blurry, very So that's 268 00:14:41,760 --> 00:14:44,040 Speaker 2: another time when I'm like, oh fuck, like I don't 269 00:14:44,080 --> 00:14:45,520 Speaker 2: know what to do. I'm just gonna you know, and 270 00:14:45,520 --> 00:14:49,720 Speaker 2: then one on with my life. And yeah, I never 271 00:14:49,760 --> 00:14:52,840 Speaker 2: I never realized how much, like how much they had 272 00:14:52,920 --> 00:14:55,320 Speaker 2: to suffer, and they are still suffering, right. 273 00:14:55,800 --> 00:14:58,920 Speaker 4: No number of international protests stop the ethnic cleanding of 274 00:14:58,960 --> 00:15:03,480 Speaker 4: the Rainie. As they huddled hidden in their apartment, Andy 275 00:15:03,480 --> 00:15:06,240 Speaker 4: and his brothers began to embrace the need deadly violence 276 00:15:06,280 --> 00:15:07,240 Speaker 4: against their oppressors. 277 00:15:07,920 --> 00:15:11,000 Speaker 2: We never had any plans, actually, we were just like no, 278 00:15:11,160 --> 00:15:14,720 Speaker 2: I think I remember, it's like that was not really planned. 279 00:15:14,760 --> 00:15:16,600 Speaker 2: It was like they killed our people who were fucking 280 00:15:16,680 --> 00:15:17,280 Speaker 2: hurt them back. 281 00:15:17,360 --> 00:15:17,520 Speaker 3: You know. 282 00:15:18,120 --> 00:15:20,840 Speaker 2: It wasn't to get their guns or shoot them back, 283 00:15:20,920 --> 00:15:22,760 Speaker 2: like we didn't even know how to use any of that, 284 00:15:22,880 --> 00:15:25,240 Speaker 2: you know, And honestly, we didn't even want to kill them. 285 00:15:25,280 --> 00:15:29,960 Speaker 2: We just want to be like, you can't do these 286 00:15:30,000 --> 00:15:33,960 Speaker 2: things and not feel, not feel any anything, you know, 287 00:15:34,080 --> 00:15:36,680 Speaker 2: not not feel any consequences of that. Like we're not 288 00:15:36,880 --> 00:15:40,560 Speaker 2: fucking We're not animals. You know. You can't just come 289 00:15:40,600 --> 00:15:43,280 Speaker 2: in and killed one of our friends and think that 290 00:15:43,320 --> 00:15:45,720 Speaker 2: we're not going to do anything back, you know, Like 291 00:15:45,800 --> 00:15:48,520 Speaker 2: and if we let that happen, then they're never going 292 00:15:48,600 --> 00:15:51,320 Speaker 2: to stop, you know. You they were trying to scare us, 293 00:15:51,320 --> 00:15:54,000 Speaker 2: and we were trying to scare them back, but they 294 00:15:54,160 --> 00:15:57,120 Speaker 2: actually kill people. We didn't. We never wanted to kill anyone. 295 00:15:57,160 --> 00:15:57,320 Speaker 3: You know. 296 00:15:57,840 --> 00:16:01,160 Speaker 1: Andy's situation felt hopeless at this stage. Trapped at the 297 00:16:01,200 --> 00:16:04,400 Speaker 1: capitol and watching his friends disappear one by one. It 298 00:16:04,480 --> 00:16:07,480 Speaker 1: seemed like he was running out of options. Thousands of 299 00:16:07,520 --> 00:16:09,720 Speaker 1: young people and me and mar felt the same, and 300 00:16:09,840 --> 00:16:12,440 Speaker 1: some of them decided to take an option they hadn't 301 00:16:12,440 --> 00:16:15,720 Speaker 1: even known existed. A few weeks earlier, while we were 302 00:16:15,720 --> 00:16:18,680 Speaker 1: in Massat we conducted a phone interview with a former 303 00:16:18,760 --> 00:16:22,120 Speaker 1: rebel fighter named Alex. Like everyone else we talked to, 304 00:16:22,360 --> 00:16:24,480 Speaker 1: he woke up on the first to February to find 305 00:16:24,480 --> 00:16:27,600 Speaker 1: out that his phone didn't work and the internet was out. 306 00:16:27,760 --> 00:16:29,480 Speaker 5: Yeah, I thought like it was just you know, like 307 00:16:29,520 --> 00:16:31,680 Speaker 5: something wrong with my phone. And then like I started 308 00:16:31,680 --> 00:16:34,400 Speaker 5: talking to my friends, and all my friends are having 309 00:16:34,440 --> 00:16:37,480 Speaker 5: the same problem. So we looked down and everybody is 310 00:16:37,600 --> 00:16:40,600 Speaker 5: like watching down to the market because we live close 311 00:16:40,680 --> 00:16:43,560 Speaker 5: to the market, and like they were like you know, 312 00:16:43,640 --> 00:16:46,920 Speaker 5: like doing like like buy and lots of rise and 313 00:16:47,000 --> 00:16:50,200 Speaker 5: like food too. I stole because no one know what's 314 00:16:50,200 --> 00:16:50,800 Speaker 5: going to happen. 315 00:16:51,280 --> 00:16:54,120 Speaker 4: Like everyone else, he wasn't that into politics, but he 316 00:16:54,160 --> 00:16:56,800 Speaker 4: was absolutely not into having the military fuck with every 317 00:16:56,840 --> 00:17:00,440 Speaker 4: aspect of his life. So he got into the streets first. 318 00:17:00,760 --> 00:17:05,399 Speaker 5: Like we are not like that into the politics and stuff, 319 00:17:05,440 --> 00:17:09,280 Speaker 5: so we didn't know. But the you know, like they 320 00:17:09,359 --> 00:17:11,919 Speaker 5: can even like shut down the Internet is kind of 321 00:17:11,920 --> 00:17:15,359 Speaker 5: like controlling our life, right, so like if they can 322 00:17:15,480 --> 00:17:17,440 Speaker 5: even do that, like you know, like we can only 323 00:17:17,480 --> 00:17:20,080 Speaker 5: imagine like what other things they can do and which 324 00:17:20,200 --> 00:17:24,320 Speaker 5: they did like killing the Inno civilians and stuff. So yeah, 325 00:17:24,359 --> 00:17:27,280 Speaker 5: at first we're just like, oh, yeah, we need to 326 00:17:27,280 --> 00:17:30,080 Speaker 5: do something about this and then join the protests. 327 00:17:30,440 --> 00:17:32,200 Speaker 4: He and his friends later found a shop to buy 328 00:17:32,240 --> 00:17:35,680 Speaker 4: gas masks, tasers, and goggles, but even with all the gear, 329 00:17:35,880 --> 00:17:38,520 Speaker 4: they were powerless against soldiers with guns and tear gas. 330 00:17:38,840 --> 00:17:41,880 Speaker 4: He said that the next few weeks were hard. Protests 331 00:17:41,880 --> 00:17:44,360 Speaker 4: were less and less safe, but nobody dared to talk 332 00:17:44,359 --> 00:17:46,200 Speaker 4: about their plans to take the fight to the military. 333 00:17:46,880 --> 00:17:49,399 Speaker 4: Everyone was worried about informants and snitches. 334 00:17:49,880 --> 00:17:53,719 Speaker 5: We didn't really like actually talk about those stuff. Like 335 00:17:54,040 --> 00:17:56,680 Speaker 5: we're only like discussing about you know, like a protests 336 00:17:57,040 --> 00:18:00,480 Speaker 5: and also like how to get attention from the like 337 00:18:00,600 --> 00:18:06,040 Speaker 5: embassies and stuff. But for like fight fighting back and 338 00:18:06,080 --> 00:18:08,120 Speaker 5: you know, like going on the wars or like I think, 339 00:18:08,160 --> 00:18:12,840 Speaker 5: like almost everyone they just decide on their own unless 340 00:18:12,880 --> 00:18:15,040 Speaker 5: they have super like trust deference. 341 00:18:15,880 --> 00:18:19,120 Speaker 4: By April, he says he'd seen people die in the streets. 342 00:18:19,880 --> 00:18:22,399 Speaker 4: He decided the protesting wasn't working and he needed to 343 00:18:22,440 --> 00:18:25,280 Speaker 4: pick up a gun. The only problem was he didn't 344 00:18:25,320 --> 00:18:28,480 Speaker 4: have one, nor did his friends. He knew some people 345 00:18:28,480 --> 00:18:30,840 Speaker 4: who had guns and hated the top of the door, but 346 00:18:30,880 --> 00:18:32,440 Speaker 4: he'd been raised his whole life to think of them 347 00:18:32,440 --> 00:18:33,240 Speaker 4: as terrorists. 348 00:18:33,520 --> 00:18:38,080 Speaker 5: Before this web you know, like brainwashed by the military 349 00:18:38,200 --> 00:18:41,359 Speaker 5: like pretty much our whole life. So you know, we 350 00:18:41,480 --> 00:18:45,439 Speaker 5: always think, oh, ethnic groups are like like you know, 351 00:18:45,480 --> 00:18:48,359 Speaker 5: they were okay, like whoever they see or and he 352 00:18:48,440 --> 00:18:54,199 Speaker 5: didn't like it. Just terrorsts, terrorists, right, that's what like 353 00:18:54,320 --> 00:18:57,919 Speaker 5: the military like make us believe our whole life. And 354 00:18:57,960 --> 00:19:01,000 Speaker 5: I was kind of scared of like joining them because yeah, 355 00:19:01,040 --> 00:19:04,440 Speaker 5: I didn't know like you know, how to live there 356 00:19:04,560 --> 00:19:07,159 Speaker 5: or like if they're gonna came in just because like 357 00:19:07,400 --> 00:19:08,399 Speaker 5: I don't speak Karen. 358 00:19:08,880 --> 00:19:13,239 Speaker 4: So yeah, it was bizarrely his boss who hooked him 359 00:19:13,280 --> 00:19:15,480 Speaker 4: up with the rebels in the hills, but he couldn't 360 00:19:15,480 --> 00:19:18,080 Speaker 4: tell anyone he was going in case they got captured 361 00:19:18,119 --> 00:19:20,760 Speaker 4: or turned out to be a snitch. Instead, he packed 362 00:19:20,760 --> 00:19:22,800 Speaker 4: his bag with some of his old clothes, didn't even 363 00:19:22,800 --> 00:19:26,399 Speaker 4: say goodbye to his family, and took a bus. He 364 00:19:26,440 --> 00:19:28,639 Speaker 4: got off that bus waited intil a man in the 365 00:19:28,680 --> 00:19:31,840 Speaker 4: car picked him up. By that night, he was in 366 00:19:31,840 --> 00:19:32,720 Speaker 4: the jungle. 367 00:19:32,680 --> 00:19:35,159 Speaker 5: Doing the first night there, like you know, we have 368 00:19:35,280 --> 00:19:38,679 Speaker 5: to go guard like one or the leader from the jungle, 369 00:19:38,720 --> 00:19:42,439 Speaker 5: like you know, like trainers by you like walking in 370 00:19:42,480 --> 00:19:45,159 Speaker 5: the dark in the forest. So we had to walk 371 00:19:45,240 --> 00:19:48,240 Speaker 5: to like somewhere we don't even know, and we have 372 00:19:48,359 --> 00:19:50,280 Speaker 5: to sleep in the like deep jungle. 373 00:19:50,920 --> 00:19:53,600 Speaker 4: He'd read about the PDF on Facebook, but suddenly he 374 00:19:53,640 --> 00:19:57,399 Speaker 4: found himself among them. Technically they were distinct unit fighting 375 00:19:57,440 --> 00:20:00,760 Speaker 4: for return to democracy, but in practice there and equipped 376 00:20:00,800 --> 00:20:03,600 Speaker 4: by the Karrent National Liberation Army who have been fighting 377 00:20:03,760 --> 00:20:07,600 Speaker 4: for federal democracy for decades. Pretty soon his opinion of 378 00:20:07,600 --> 00:20:08,600 Speaker 4: the Karent had changed. 379 00:20:08,880 --> 00:20:13,600 Speaker 5: But like during my time, I did some observation about them. Yeah, 380 00:20:13,640 --> 00:20:17,080 Speaker 5: it was like obviously, like the government, it's not the 381 00:20:17,160 --> 00:20:20,920 Speaker 5: current people fighting the cup are the military. The military 382 00:20:20,960 --> 00:20:24,240 Speaker 5: has been like you know, like invading the Karrent villagers 383 00:20:24,400 --> 00:20:28,560 Speaker 5: like karen Land. And yeah, they did like banning down 384 00:20:28,680 --> 00:20:32,760 Speaker 5: the like villagers, like raving the Woomors, you know, like 385 00:20:32,880 --> 00:20:36,879 Speaker 5: killing the people for like many years. So they cannot 386 00:20:36,880 --> 00:20:39,439 Speaker 5: do anything but to fight back, you know, they have 387 00:20:39,520 --> 00:20:41,320 Speaker 5: to fight back to prota their. 388 00:20:41,240 --> 00:20:44,600 Speaker 4: Land, just like Zo, the now deceased rebel soldier who 389 00:20:44,680 --> 00:20:48,800 Speaker 4: interviewed for our last series. Alex receive rudimentary training. He 390 00:20:48,960 --> 00:20:51,440 Speaker 4: never fired a gun before, and supplies are very limited, 391 00:20:51,920 --> 00:20:53,520 Speaker 4: but he's still got a kick out of sending a 392 00:20:53,560 --> 00:20:55,760 Speaker 4: few rounds down range, like not even in. 393 00:20:55,720 --> 00:20:57,560 Speaker 5: My dream, like I never do, like I will be 394 00:20:57,720 --> 00:20:59,600 Speaker 5: like houlting it again, or I shouldn't. 395 00:20:59,600 --> 00:21:01,000 Speaker 1: Should it so. 396 00:21:02,840 --> 00:21:03,400 Speaker 3: Pretty good? 397 00:21:06,359 --> 00:21:06,560 Speaker 5: Yeah? 398 00:21:06,680 --> 00:21:08,520 Speaker 1: Do you were what kind of gun was it? Was 399 00:21:08,520 --> 00:21:10,200 Speaker 1: it a point two too or was it? 400 00:21:10,600 --> 00:21:12,800 Speaker 5: Yes, the first one was point to two? 401 00:21:13,320 --> 00:21:14,560 Speaker 1: Was it hand homemade? 402 00:21:14,640 --> 00:21:15,200 Speaker 3: Handmade? 403 00:21:15,320 --> 00:21:16,440 Speaker 2: Or was it you know. 404 00:21:16,720 --> 00:21:20,200 Speaker 5: Uh no, it's not a hard made but it's kind 405 00:21:20,240 --> 00:21:21,160 Speaker 5: of pretty old. 406 00:21:22,240 --> 00:21:24,919 Speaker 4: Even in the jungle, they were worried about moles. It 407 00:21:24,960 --> 00:21:27,560 Speaker 4: took a while to make friends, he says, but eventually 408 00:21:27,600 --> 00:21:30,200 Speaker 4: he fell in with a cop who had defected, a photographer, 409 00:21:30,400 --> 00:21:33,800 Speaker 4: and a construction worker. Their plan, he says, was to 410 00:21:33,800 --> 00:21:35,600 Speaker 4: train up in the jungle and then go home and 411 00:21:35,640 --> 00:21:36,400 Speaker 4: find the cities. 412 00:21:36,880 --> 00:21:40,160 Speaker 5: Like our idea was, you know, like we one day 413 00:21:40,240 --> 00:21:42,520 Speaker 5: and train for a few months and then go back 414 00:21:42,560 --> 00:21:47,320 Speaker 5: to the city. And like we thought, like it's gonna 415 00:21:47,320 --> 00:21:49,720 Speaker 5: be like a huge wars in the cities like in 416 00:21:49,960 --> 00:21:54,200 Speaker 5: Yango or Menoy and also like everywhere in Yama. But yeah, 417 00:21:54,480 --> 00:21:55,680 Speaker 5: it didn't turns sound like that. 418 00:21:56,520 --> 00:21:59,280 Speaker 4: But instead he found himself pulling sentry duty in the 419 00:21:59,359 --> 00:22:02,320 Speaker 4: jungle for city Kit. It was scary alone out there 420 00:22:02,320 --> 00:22:05,000 Speaker 4: in the night with a gun, surrounded by potential threats. 421 00:22:05,240 --> 00:22:07,720 Speaker 5: I felt like, you know, like okay, like it's gonna 422 00:22:07,720 --> 00:22:10,720 Speaker 5: happen tonight, Like they're gonna come to our base tonight. 423 00:22:10,800 --> 00:22:12,919 Speaker 5: A week I'm gonna have to shoot that. I have 424 00:22:13,040 --> 00:22:16,879 Speaker 5: to product my people, funny, but it didn't happen. 425 00:22:17,119 --> 00:22:20,600 Speaker 4: Yeah, I've spent eight months in the field pulling sentry 426 00:22:20,680 --> 00:22:23,320 Speaker 4: duty and learning the skills of a soldier, but without 427 00:22:23,440 --> 00:22:26,119 Speaker 4: arms and ammunition, there wasn't much he could do, and 428 00:22:26,160 --> 00:22:29,560 Speaker 4: his whole time training, he says, he only fired five shots. 429 00:22:30,160 --> 00:22:34,679 Speaker 5: I felt kind of useless because we don't have like 430 00:22:35,119 --> 00:22:39,399 Speaker 5: enough guns, you know. Like so by the time, like 431 00:22:39,480 --> 00:22:45,280 Speaker 5: there was like steroid happening in uh Laky, I thought like, oh, 432 00:22:45,359 --> 00:22:47,280 Speaker 5: we're gonna have to like go and you know, like 433 00:22:47,440 --> 00:22:51,040 Speaker 5: fight them now. But instay, like we have to pack 434 00:22:51,119 --> 00:22:54,680 Speaker 5: our staff and move to a deeper jungle. So we 435 00:22:54,680 --> 00:23:00,760 Speaker 5: were like kind of like reputees with uniforms. But yeah, 436 00:23:01,359 --> 00:23:03,439 Speaker 5: you know, if I just keep staying there, like we 437 00:23:03,640 --> 00:23:05,679 Speaker 5: if we are just going to keep running away like this, 438 00:23:05,840 --> 00:23:08,600 Speaker 5: Like I don't want to stay there. I want to 439 00:23:08,640 --> 00:23:12,320 Speaker 5: do something about the needs, like the main needs in 440 00:23:12,400 --> 00:23:16,000 Speaker 5: our canvas, the webbons against So I want to like 441 00:23:16,440 --> 00:23:18,359 Speaker 5: come here and like work for that. 442 00:23:18,960 --> 00:23:21,560 Speaker 4: The transition was hard. For eight months, you haven't seen 443 00:23:21,560 --> 00:23:24,520 Speaker 4: a light bulb or a flashing toilet. Now he crossed 444 00:23:24,520 --> 00:23:26,960 Speaker 4: the river, and everything seemed normal, every kind. 445 00:23:26,800 --> 00:23:29,840 Speaker 5: Of weird, like you know from the jungle a metal 446 00:23:29,960 --> 00:23:34,199 Speaker 5: It's just a small river across. And then like the 447 00:23:34,320 --> 00:23:38,880 Speaker 5: life here is totally different, Like peoples are living their 448 00:23:38,960 --> 00:23:41,960 Speaker 5: normal life and not having to like worry for like 449 00:23:42,119 --> 00:23:46,560 Speaker 5: any things, or like there's like the whole time I 450 00:23:46,640 --> 00:23:48,240 Speaker 5: was in younger, you know, like we have to worry 451 00:23:48,280 --> 00:23:51,480 Speaker 5: about our country, and like we don't want to live 452 00:23:51,560 --> 00:23:54,879 Speaker 5: a normal life. And they that made you like the 453 00:23:54,920 --> 00:23:59,240 Speaker 5: military's gold so like. But then like here everyone is 454 00:23:59,320 --> 00:24:03,320 Speaker 5: living in normal and it just only a way across. 455 00:24:04,280 --> 00:24:06,520 Speaker 4: Now that he's across the river, we won't say where. 456 00:24:07,320 --> 00:24:10,720 Speaker 4: He's still part of the revolution. He's raising money and 457 00:24:10,800 --> 00:24:14,480 Speaker 4: doing interviews like this, trying to organize medical supplies, and 458 00:24:14,560 --> 00:24:16,520 Speaker 4: hoping that one day he can return to his country, 459 00:24:17,240 --> 00:24:19,719 Speaker 4: not as a refugee with a uniform, but perhaps as 460 00:24:19,720 --> 00:24:22,679 Speaker 4: a soldier liberating his people, or better yet, as a 461 00:24:22,680 --> 00:24:32,600 Speaker 4: citizen in a free democracy. 462 00:24:34,960 --> 00:24:38,000 Speaker 1: York wasn't ready to be a refugee quite yet. He 463 00:24:38,080 --> 00:24:40,520 Speaker 1: quickly found a role for himself in the militant side 464 00:24:40,560 --> 00:24:43,679 Speaker 1: of what had become a full fledged civil war. Before 465 00:24:43,720 --> 00:24:46,840 Speaker 1: the coup, he'd been studying engineering at university, and he 466 00:24:47,080 --> 00:24:50,240 Speaker 1: liked to understand how things worked. Although Alex and his 467 00:24:50,280 --> 00:24:53,919 Speaker 1: comrades had a critical shortage of weapons, Yaq didn't only 468 00:24:54,000 --> 00:24:57,680 Speaker 1: make guns at first. He made bombs too, using knowledge 469 00:24:57,680 --> 00:25:00,719 Speaker 1: that he'd gained after traveling into the jungle, getting training 470 00:25:00,760 --> 00:25:04,480 Speaker 1: from Korean experts, and explosives and as he told us, 471 00:25:04,600 --> 00:25:07,680 Speaker 1: they were very effective. Do you think the explosives took 472 00:25:07,720 --> 00:25:08,680 Speaker 1: out any soldiers? 473 00:25:09,240 --> 00:25:12,760 Speaker 3: Of course, Sam explosives is out for the bathing sat 474 00:25:12,840 --> 00:25:16,600 Speaker 3: explosive for their base. Some are the trouble so you 475 00:25:16,680 --> 00:25:18,920 Speaker 3: know they they camp and pit the ball and trying 476 00:25:18,960 --> 00:25:21,920 Speaker 3: to cut off the ball and just explode. So they die. 477 00:25:22,359 --> 00:25:28,120 Speaker 3: So my cut cut off the wire bone wires. Okay, yes, 478 00:25:28,520 --> 00:25:34,440 Speaker 3: but they died anyway. So it's like, oh, my best 479 00:25:34,520 --> 00:25:38,040 Speaker 3: memory is that we are using and the very first 480 00:25:38,080 --> 00:25:45,000 Speaker 3: et M E T and in in in Tanangel. Now 481 00:25:45,240 --> 00:25:49,360 Speaker 3: this revolutionary thing is the wholdings that arrested hold. It's 482 00:25:49,440 --> 00:25:54,520 Speaker 3: very sad uh when they made made the idim bawl 483 00:25:55,840 --> 00:26:00,480 Speaker 3: uh we we had that the ambas ambulas Abu less 484 00:26:00,520 --> 00:26:04,720 Speaker 3: white and less Land un blessed Land. It's like fight 485 00:26:05,040 --> 00:26:08,280 Speaker 3: Fi ambula track is coming here. Oh wow, okay this 486 00:26:08,320 --> 00:26:10,080 Speaker 3: is I think this is my best movie. 487 00:26:10,480 --> 00:26:13,640 Speaker 1: Yes, wow, okay wow. So like the bomb goes off 488 00:26:13,680 --> 00:26:16,440 Speaker 1: and they have to send in five ambulance yes, yes, yes, 489 00:26:16,640 --> 00:26:18,520 Speaker 1: was it soldiers or police soldiers? 490 00:26:18,640 --> 00:26:19,120 Speaker 2: Soldiers? 491 00:26:19,240 --> 00:26:22,600 Speaker 3: Yes, the soldier who checked the robe. 492 00:26:22,960 --> 00:26:25,800 Speaker 4: Yeah, it was just bombs that the young rebels learned about. 493 00:26:26,080 --> 00:26:28,680 Speaker 4: They also shattered many of their misconceptions about the roles 494 00:26:28,680 --> 00:26:29,560 Speaker 4: of men and women. 495 00:26:32,600 --> 00:26:37,439 Speaker 3: M m HM. 496 00:27:00,080 --> 00:27:01,920 Speaker 4: As women like a mirror stepped up to the front 497 00:27:01,920 --> 00:27:05,920 Speaker 4: lines and fought alongside their male comrades, it became hard 498 00:27:05,960 --> 00:27:09,359 Speaker 4: to ignore the sexism which underpinned much of traditional Burmese culture. 499 00:27:10,520 --> 00:27:12,720 Speaker 4: The music you just heard from a Yangon punk band 500 00:27:12,760 --> 00:27:15,440 Speaker 4: called Rebel Riot. They gave us permission to use it here. 501 00:27:16,400 --> 00:27:18,919 Speaker 4: They have some great songs about the Spring Revolution, and 502 00:27:18,960 --> 00:27:22,240 Speaker 4: this one focuses on the role of women. In a video. 503 00:27:22,359 --> 00:27:24,439 Speaker 4: You see young women in the streets and then you 504 00:27:24,480 --> 00:27:27,760 Speaker 4: see them in the jungles carrying m sixteens. Me and 505 00:27:27,840 --> 00:27:30,639 Speaker 4: Maa might previously have had a woman leader, but gender 506 00:27:30,640 --> 00:27:35,199 Speaker 4: equality had been far from universal. And he told us 507 00:27:35,200 --> 00:27:37,919 Speaker 4: the story about this and we recorded it. But it 508 00:27:37,960 --> 00:27:39,960 Speaker 4: was our last night in the country and we were 509 00:27:40,000 --> 00:27:43,240 Speaker 4: on our way to another spectacular hangover, one that would 510 00:27:43,240 --> 00:27:45,600 Speaker 4: see me vomiting with such ferocity on a flight that 511 00:27:45,640 --> 00:27:48,400 Speaker 4: an elderly tie lady took pity on me and gave 512 00:27:48,440 --> 00:27:50,720 Speaker 4: me her shopping bag once I filled up my sick bag. 513 00:27:51,960 --> 00:27:54,800 Speaker 4: In the second month at a revolution, Andy said, when 514 00:27:54,800 --> 00:27:58,399 Speaker 4: they were in Yangon, the protesters would build giant barricades 515 00:27:58,400 --> 00:28:01,200 Speaker 4: to keep the police back. We've seen videos of these. 516 00:28:01,200 --> 00:28:05,600 Speaker 4: They're pretty impressive, huge amounts of palettes, boxes and burning tires. 517 00:28:06,000 --> 00:28:08,080 Speaker 4: We got some other audio of him describing them. 518 00:28:08,760 --> 00:28:13,320 Speaker 2: No, we could never get close to the military. It 519 00:28:13,359 --> 00:28:16,080 Speaker 2: was never it was never attack. It was always defense. 520 00:28:16,640 --> 00:28:21,800 Speaker 2: So later on, when we started seeing how military crack 521 00:28:21,880 --> 00:28:26,159 Speaker 2: down these protesters, we started building these gates and like 522 00:28:26,320 --> 00:28:29,000 Speaker 2: sand bags in our every base in the in the 523 00:28:29,280 --> 00:28:33,000 Speaker 2: Janga and Melody, whatever across the country. We started building 524 00:28:33,000 --> 00:28:35,919 Speaker 2: these barriers so that the military trucks kind of just 525 00:28:36,000 --> 00:28:39,880 Speaker 2: come in. And it's actually crazy because sometimes to build 526 00:28:39,880 --> 00:28:42,240 Speaker 2: these things, you have to take over the road first, 527 00:28:42,800 --> 00:28:45,400 Speaker 2: so like like a main road or a highway. So 528 00:28:45,440 --> 00:28:48,040 Speaker 2: then what we do is all these little groups will 529 00:28:48,080 --> 00:28:50,840 Speaker 2: gather so one street, two street, three street, you know, 530 00:28:51,080 --> 00:28:52,640 Speaker 2: and then we would go to that street, or we 531 00:28:52,680 --> 00:28:55,040 Speaker 2: would walk down the street saying we're going to try 532 00:28:55,040 --> 00:28:58,120 Speaker 2: to take over the street. Please come join. People will 533 00:28:58,120 --> 00:29:01,360 Speaker 2: come down, people come down from the street, from the buildings, 534 00:29:01,360 --> 00:29:02,840 Speaker 2: and then we go to the next street. We say 535 00:29:02,920 --> 00:29:04,360 Speaker 2: the same thing, and then people would join. 536 00:29:04,680 --> 00:29:06,880 Speaker 1: Nothing they did could stand up to a tank, though, 537 00:29:07,200 --> 00:29:10,080 Speaker 1: just as that shopping bag couldn't stand up to James's vomit. 538 00:29:10,480 --> 00:29:13,080 Speaker 1: The military started using human shields to get through the 539 00:29:13,080 --> 00:29:15,760 Speaker 1: barricades and the groups of people throwing molotovs. 540 00:29:16,280 --> 00:29:18,719 Speaker 2: Usually we would defend our places, right, We would use 541 00:29:18,800 --> 00:29:23,120 Speaker 2: molotov slingshots, and we would resist like we were attacked, 542 00:29:23,280 --> 00:29:25,440 Speaker 2: Like we will be in the behind the gate, but 543 00:29:25,480 --> 00:29:28,880 Speaker 2: we will kind of make them cannot come too forward, 544 00:29:28,880 --> 00:29:33,120 Speaker 2: you know. But when the military have someone that they're gunpointing, 545 00:29:33,640 --> 00:29:36,520 Speaker 2: just an almost civilian and making him move, we can't 546 00:29:36,560 --> 00:29:38,920 Speaker 2: do anything, man like, we can't go through a molotov like, 547 00:29:39,000 --> 00:29:45,080 Speaker 2: you know. So that's when the military clean out all 548 00:29:45,120 --> 00:29:47,760 Speaker 2: of that. In Yangon, I think there was a time 549 00:29:47,800 --> 00:29:50,960 Speaker 2: when it was packed. It was every road had it, 550 00:29:51,080 --> 00:29:54,000 Speaker 2: every street had it, and everyone was guarding that right. 551 00:29:54,200 --> 00:29:56,480 Speaker 2: But then when the military started and they said it 552 00:29:56,520 --> 00:29:59,600 Speaker 2: in the statements, they were saying, if that's neither your house, your. 553 00:29:59,560 --> 00:30:03,000 Speaker 1: Responsible, then they came up with a better idea. In 554 00:30:03,040 --> 00:30:06,720 Speaker 1: Burmese culture, men fear passing under women's clothing. If it's 555 00:30:06,720 --> 00:30:09,160 Speaker 1: hanging on a washing line, they'll go around rather than 556 00:30:09,240 --> 00:30:12,560 Speaker 1: under it. It is, as Andy told us, bullshit. So 557 00:30:12,640 --> 00:30:15,080 Speaker 1: they decided to turn that bullshit back on the troops 558 00:30:15,240 --> 00:30:18,280 Speaker 1: and they grabbed as many women's lon chees, a traditional 559 00:30:18,320 --> 00:30:20,760 Speaker 1: garment worn around the waist like a sarong, as they 560 00:30:20,760 --> 00:30:23,880 Speaker 1: could and hung them up above their barricade. It worked, 561 00:30:23,920 --> 00:30:26,600 Speaker 1: he said, and just like that, a generation of Burmese 562 00:30:26,680 --> 00:30:31,120 Speaker 1: kids realized that sexism hurts everyone who perpetuates it. Miak 563 00:30:31,160 --> 00:30:34,000 Speaker 1: told us an interesting story about this. He said, the 564 00:30:34,000 --> 00:30:36,320 Speaker 1: first time he met his fiancee, he thought that she 565 00:30:36,440 --> 00:30:39,800 Speaker 1: was pretty sharp for a girl that he says now 566 00:30:40,080 --> 00:30:42,560 Speaker 1: was his bad me and mar he says, has some 567 00:30:42,640 --> 00:30:45,280 Speaker 1: gender hang ups, but he soon realized that she was 568 00:30:45,320 --> 00:30:48,200 Speaker 1: the bravest person he knew. They went to protest together, 569 00:30:48,360 --> 00:30:50,800 Speaker 1: and when something needed moving from one town to another, 570 00:30:51,080 --> 00:30:53,360 Speaker 1: they took advantage of those gender hang ups and her 571 00:30:53,400 --> 00:30:56,320 Speaker 1: bravery and she risked her life carrying weapons in her 572 00:30:56,320 --> 00:30:59,080 Speaker 1: bags on inner city buses. We'll let him tell you 573 00:30:59,160 --> 00:30:59,960 Speaker 1: how they met. 574 00:31:00,200 --> 00:31:03,880 Speaker 3: It's like we we met on the meeting, like I, 575 00:31:03,960 --> 00:31:08,360 Speaker 3: you know, we started making. Maybe it is in the 576 00:31:08,400 --> 00:31:12,520 Speaker 3: very first week, first week of match making, very very 577 00:31:12,600 --> 00:31:17,360 Speaker 3: very very respective memories. The name of the meeting is 578 00:31:17,400 --> 00:31:20,560 Speaker 3: prayce tell me, okay, pray staw me. The name of 579 00:31:20,600 --> 00:31:23,440 Speaker 3: the meeting is brainstorm me. I those time, she she 580 00:31:23,440 --> 00:31:25,520 Speaker 3: she is very you know, respire day. She said the 581 00:31:25,720 --> 00:31:26,960 Speaker 3: very thoughtful things. 582 00:31:27,280 --> 00:31:27,360 Speaker 2: You know. 583 00:31:27,800 --> 00:31:30,680 Speaker 3: Oh she is, you know, so so thoughtful. I don't 584 00:31:30,680 --> 00:31:35,080 Speaker 3: even think, you know, in the memoir culture is there 585 00:31:35,200 --> 00:31:37,760 Speaker 3: is a channe, you know, so why is it always 586 00:31:37,760 --> 00:31:41,000 Speaker 3: good like people? It's Channa, you know, something like this. 587 00:31:41,320 --> 00:31:43,320 Speaker 3: So I thought, oh she's really good, or that she 588 00:31:43,360 --> 00:31:47,800 Speaker 3: is a kid. That's my bad, some Joanna, I do die. 589 00:31:48,240 --> 00:31:53,480 Speaker 3: But later I'm met with her on on the product, 590 00:31:53,520 --> 00:31:55,520 Speaker 3: so I saw, oh she is so beautiful. I thought 591 00:31:55,600 --> 00:31:58,320 Speaker 3: she's just study twenty years a day. But that we 592 00:31:58,680 --> 00:32:04,080 Speaker 3: know lady. So we keep doing together the things and 593 00:32:04,240 --> 00:32:07,880 Speaker 3: she she is my backyard. I was ground like this 594 00:32:08,480 --> 00:32:12,640 Speaker 3: and whatever I have I have endangers I all the 595 00:32:12,680 --> 00:32:13,440 Speaker 3: contact her. 596 00:32:13,720 --> 00:32:15,560 Speaker 4: We asked him if you worried she get arrested while 597 00:32:15,600 --> 00:32:18,080 Speaker 4: she was making trips into the mountains with guns and bombs, 598 00:32:18,280 --> 00:32:19,040 Speaker 4: but he said no. 599 00:32:19,520 --> 00:32:20,960 Speaker 1: Was it hard to leave her to go to the 600 00:32:21,040 --> 00:32:24,280 Speaker 1: jungle because she could get arrested, you could get no. 601 00:32:24,280 --> 00:32:27,480 Speaker 3: No, she is very clever, so I never worry about her. 602 00:32:27,840 --> 00:32:30,040 Speaker 3: I just worry about mindset we go. She is more 603 00:32:30,400 --> 00:32:33,200 Speaker 3: you know, secret, and she is more clever than me, 604 00:32:33,880 --> 00:32:36,000 Speaker 3: so she only teaches me how to be clever. 605 00:32:38,080 --> 00:32:40,760 Speaker 4: Much like me. Amiria was falling in love as well. 606 00:32:41,560 --> 00:32:43,080 Speaker 4: Her relationship was a bit different though. 607 00:32:43,840 --> 00:32:46,520 Speaker 6: At first we were in the group chat. 608 00:32:46,600 --> 00:32:48,880 Speaker 4: Yeah, but then did you make the private Yeah? Yeah, 609 00:32:51,600 --> 00:32:52,760 Speaker 4: he started the private chat. 610 00:32:53,520 --> 00:32:55,240 Speaker 2: I think I did. 611 00:32:56,560 --> 00:32:59,080 Speaker 6: Because at that time I feel like, oh, she is 612 00:32:59,120 --> 00:33:04,240 Speaker 6: so young at time, she's not even eighteen, she's seventeen 613 00:33:04,360 --> 00:33:09,640 Speaker 6: years old, and she's leading the one of the forecasts team. 614 00:33:09,800 --> 00:33:15,959 Speaker 6: So I'm like, wow, this girl is like amazing, right, Yeah, 615 00:33:16,000 --> 00:33:18,560 Speaker 6: So that that's how I mad her, and then that's 616 00:33:18,600 --> 00:33:21,440 Speaker 6: how I you know, try to hit her. 617 00:33:24,600 --> 00:33:29,680 Speaker 4: Now. Admittedly, TK, a security guy is translating here. He's 618 00:33:29,680 --> 00:33:33,040 Speaker 4: also her boyfriend and for now he's here with her 619 00:33:33,040 --> 00:33:36,040 Speaker 4: to make sure she's okay. When we met them both. 620 00:33:36,280 --> 00:33:39,200 Speaker 4: It was just weeks after he'd arrived in Thailand and 621 00:33:39,240 --> 00:33:41,320 Speaker 4: the two had met in person for the very first time. 622 00:33:42,000 --> 00:33:43,680 Speaker 4: It's a kind of story you can't help a fine 623 00:33:43,760 --> 00:33:47,160 Speaker 4: touching two people in opposite sides of the world, united 624 00:33:47,160 --> 00:33:50,080 Speaker 4: by a fight for justice and the bonds of revolutionary care. 625 00:33:51,280 --> 00:33:53,200 Speaker 4: At least, it's a nice countweait to all the stories 626 00:33:53,200 --> 00:33:55,880 Speaker 4: of death and violence, which will have more of you 627 00:33:55,960 --> 00:33:57,760 Speaker 4: tomorrow on part four of this series. 628 00:34:02,200 --> 00:34:04,720 Speaker 5: It Could Happen Here as a production of cool Zone Media. 629 00:34:04,800 --> 00:34:07,440 Speaker 5: For more podcasts from cool Zone Media, visit our website 630 00:34:07,520 --> 00:34:10,640 Speaker 5: Coolzonemedia dot com, or check us out on the iHeartRadio app, 631 00:34:10,640 --> 00:34:14,000 Speaker 5: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts. You can 632 00:34:14,040 --> 00:34:16,719 Speaker 5: find sources for It Could Happen Here, updated monthly at 633 00:34:16,760 --> 00:34:20,000 Speaker 5: Coolzonmedia dot com slash sources. Thanks for listening.