1 00:00:00,240 --> 00:00:02,639 Speaker 1: Welcome to an all new episode of Her Playbook, brought 2 00:00:02,680 --> 00:00:05,760 Speaker 1: to you by Kendra Scott. Her Playbook a podcast highlighting 3 00:00:05,800 --> 00:00:09,000 Speaker 1: inspiring stories of women in sport and business. My name 4 00:00:09,080 --> 00:00:11,840 Speaker 1: is Madeline Burke, and I am joined by NBC Sports 5 00:00:11,920 --> 00:00:16,320 Speaker 1: lead College football and college basketball insider, Serious XM radio 6 00:00:16,400 --> 00:00:20,360 Speaker 1: host and Sports Media's Aubrey Plaza. Welcome to the pod, 7 00:00:20,440 --> 00:00:21,280 Speaker 1: Nicole hourback. 8 00:00:21,800 --> 00:00:24,840 Speaker 2: It's an honor to be here. I was your first 9 00:00:24,880 --> 00:00:27,080 Speaker 2: New York City friends, so I also feel like that 10 00:00:27,120 --> 00:00:28,080 Speaker 2: should be in the introduction. 11 00:00:28,200 --> 00:00:30,120 Speaker 1: We have to introduce that when I moved to the 12 00:00:30,160 --> 00:00:32,560 Speaker 1: big city of New York, Nicole was the first friend 13 00:00:32,560 --> 00:00:33,120 Speaker 1: I made there. 14 00:00:33,320 --> 00:00:36,520 Speaker 3: And it's been great watching your career evolve over the years. 15 00:00:36,520 --> 00:00:39,240 Speaker 1: And for those just listening to the audio only version, 16 00:00:39,960 --> 00:00:41,159 Speaker 1: Nicole is a spitting image of. 17 00:00:41,159 --> 00:00:42,800 Speaker 3: Aubrey play I get it a lot. If we're painting 18 00:00:42,840 --> 00:00:45,199 Speaker 3: a picture for the for the audio only audience, it. 19 00:00:45,200 --> 00:00:48,879 Speaker 2: Does picture if she like fall out college football, Like 20 00:00:48,920 --> 00:00:51,560 Speaker 2: that's what she's actually like. A w NBA fan, right, 21 00:00:51,760 --> 00:00:53,000 Speaker 2: So I need to meet her at some point that 22 00:00:53,040 --> 00:00:53,280 Speaker 2: will have. 23 00:00:53,479 --> 00:00:55,000 Speaker 1: Like we need to get you to in the same room, 24 00:00:55,040 --> 00:00:57,280 Speaker 1: although if we do, that'll just kind of debunk the 25 00:00:57,280 --> 00:00:59,080 Speaker 1: statement that you guys are the same as the person 26 00:00:59,440 --> 00:01:01,400 Speaker 1: we're working will work our way up to that. 27 00:01:02,040 --> 00:01:03,680 Speaker 3: Nicole. We're out here at the NFL. 28 00:01:03,360 --> 00:01:07,640 Speaker 1: Scouting Combine in Indianapolis. You've been covering college sports for 29 00:01:08,040 --> 00:01:12,440 Speaker 1: your whole career, really, starting at Michigan USA, today the 30 00:01:12,480 --> 00:01:15,560 Speaker 1: Athletic and now at NBC Sports. How did you know 31 00:01:15,720 --> 00:01:17,680 Speaker 1: that this was a vocation you wanted to pursue. 32 00:01:17,760 --> 00:01:21,240 Speaker 2: I didn't know. I feel like there's so many people 33 00:01:21,280 --> 00:01:23,080 Speaker 2: in our industry that, like you have all these like 34 00:01:23,319 --> 00:01:25,600 Speaker 2: either their writing little game stories and they're like five 35 00:01:25,640 --> 00:01:27,440 Speaker 2: years old and they could barely write, or they have 36 00:01:27,480 --> 00:01:30,280 Speaker 2: like little you know, microfoot little little like kid karaoke sets, 37 00:01:30,280 --> 00:01:32,759 Speaker 2: and they're like pretending to be reporters. Not at all, 38 00:01:33,000 --> 00:01:37,039 Speaker 2: Absolutely not. I stumbled into it. So I went to Michigan, 39 00:01:37,120 --> 00:01:39,720 Speaker 2: as you mentioned, which doesn't even have a journalism major, 40 00:01:39,840 --> 00:01:43,000 Speaker 2: let alone a j school. None. They have a student newspaper. 41 00:01:43,080 --> 00:01:46,039 Speaker 2: So that's where I started. I was it was welcome 42 00:01:46,080 --> 00:01:48,200 Speaker 2: week my freshman year, and I was like making friends 43 00:01:48,200 --> 00:01:50,320 Speaker 2: in my dorm and the girl across the hall from 44 00:01:50,360 --> 00:01:53,600 Speaker 2: me was a sophomore and she we were just talking 45 00:01:53,640 --> 00:01:55,720 Speaker 2: about our dream jobs, and I said mine would be 46 00:01:55,720 --> 00:01:57,720 Speaker 2: to write for Sports Illustrated. I read it cover to 47 00:01:57,760 --> 00:01:59,800 Speaker 2: cover every day. And she wanted to be a heart surgeon, 48 00:01:59,800 --> 00:02:01,360 Speaker 2: which she did go to med school and like does 49 00:02:01,400 --> 00:02:03,680 Speaker 2: save lives, So for her, one of us saves lives. 50 00:02:05,000 --> 00:02:07,760 Speaker 2: And so her friend worked at the Michigan Daily, which 51 00:02:07,800 --> 00:02:09,840 Speaker 2: is a student newspaper there, and she was like, you 52 00:02:09,840 --> 00:02:12,160 Speaker 2: should just go to a meeting. Like I hadn't really 53 00:02:12,160 --> 00:02:15,560 Speaker 2: made a connection that real people do these jobs like 54 00:02:15,600 --> 00:02:18,560 Speaker 2: that there would was a career path to it. It 55 00:02:18,600 --> 00:02:20,640 Speaker 2: was more just like, oh, I read stuff that like 56 00:02:20,720 --> 00:02:23,240 Speaker 2: arrived in my house, you know, I read Sea Politi 57 00:02:24,120 --> 00:02:25,760 Speaker 2: because we got the Star Ledger, you know. Like it 58 00:02:25,800 --> 00:02:27,160 Speaker 2: was just kind of like I didn't I didn't think 59 00:02:27,160 --> 00:02:29,480 Speaker 2: of these as like real people and like attainable careers. 60 00:02:30,280 --> 00:02:34,040 Speaker 2: So I went to the student newspaper meeting. It was 61 00:02:34,080 --> 00:02:36,320 Speaker 2: the day after Appstate meet Michigan. That was my first 62 00:02:36,360 --> 00:02:39,920 Speaker 2: game as a freshman, okay, And I watched them like 63 00:02:40,000 --> 00:02:42,080 Speaker 2: tear up. They had this whole special section because they 64 00:02:42,080 --> 00:02:43,720 Speaker 2: were supposed to be really good, Like they they had 65 00:02:44,280 --> 00:02:46,800 Speaker 2: Jake Long, Chad Henny, a bunch of guys. They were like, 66 00:02:46,800 --> 00:02:49,280 Speaker 2: we're gonna come back and win a national championship. So 67 00:02:49,320 --> 00:02:51,360 Speaker 2: they had all these like features that were all prepared 68 00:02:51,360 --> 00:02:53,520 Speaker 2: to run tore it all up, and then like the 69 00:02:53,560 --> 00:02:56,240 Speaker 2: four student writers did a piece that was like what 70 00:02:56,320 --> 00:02:58,519 Speaker 2: the hell happened? What went wrong? And I just thought 71 00:02:58,560 --> 00:03:01,280 Speaker 2: it was so interesting that they were able to be experts, 72 00:03:01,320 --> 00:03:04,080 Speaker 2: like they were just like seniors, but they were covering 73 00:03:04,080 --> 00:03:06,000 Speaker 2: the team. They got all the same accesses as everybody else. 74 00:03:06,000 --> 00:03:07,960 Speaker 2: They can ask questions in the press conferences, and they 75 00:03:07,960 --> 00:03:11,600 Speaker 2: could be authorities and write this piece. And also like 76 00:03:11,639 --> 00:03:13,080 Speaker 2: I was like I need to make friends in college, 77 00:03:13,160 --> 00:03:14,839 Speaker 2: like all pick up a story, and like I wrote 78 00:03:14,840 --> 00:03:18,120 Speaker 2: a story on ultimate frisbee, which was a club sport. 79 00:03:18,240 --> 00:03:20,240 Speaker 2: It was terrible. I had no idea what I was doing, 80 00:03:20,320 --> 00:03:22,760 Speaker 2: like what to ask people, like what's an interesting story? 81 00:03:23,960 --> 00:03:25,919 Speaker 2: But yeah, that's how it all began. And then I 82 00:03:25,960 --> 00:03:28,440 Speaker 2: would say that for me to realize like this was 83 00:03:28,480 --> 00:03:30,720 Speaker 2: a career path or like something I could do. It 84 00:03:30,840 --> 00:03:33,560 Speaker 2: was my first internship, which was at the Trentonian in Trenton, 85 00:03:33,600 --> 00:03:36,000 Speaker 2: New Jersey, and that was the first job where I 86 00:03:36,080 --> 00:03:37,560 Speaker 2: was just like I was out every unight I was 87 00:03:37,720 --> 00:03:40,640 Speaker 2: I was doing little league baseball and softball. The age 88 00:03:40,640 --> 00:03:42,760 Speaker 2: group that like fed into the World Series. I did 89 00:03:42,840 --> 00:03:46,480 Speaker 2: drag racing, I did high school sports. I did some 90 00:03:46,520 --> 00:03:49,000 Speaker 2: Trenton Thunder games. But that was the first time where 91 00:03:49,000 --> 00:03:51,560 Speaker 2: I was like every night showing up at a ballpark 92 00:03:51,640 --> 00:03:53,880 Speaker 2: or whatever and not knowing what was gonna happen, but 93 00:03:53,960 --> 00:03:55,840 Speaker 2: being and then you're gonna write on deadline and like 94 00:03:56,080 --> 00:03:58,320 Speaker 2: this is your job, and I just I found it 95 00:03:58,400 --> 00:04:02,840 Speaker 2: so engaging in interest and I had no fomo. You know, 96 00:04:02,880 --> 00:04:04,560 Speaker 2: like this is my first summer after college and all 97 00:04:04,560 --> 00:04:06,320 Speaker 2: my friends are hanging out every night and I'm like, no, 98 00:04:06,440 --> 00:04:08,280 Speaker 2: I actually really am enjoying what I'm doing, so I'm 99 00:04:08,320 --> 00:04:09,920 Speaker 2: going to do it as long as I possibly can. 100 00:04:10,080 --> 00:04:12,880 Speaker 1: That's fascinating because that's the goal, right finding a job 101 00:04:12,880 --> 00:04:14,760 Speaker 1: that you would love to immerse yourself in. You don't 102 00:04:14,760 --> 00:04:16,960 Speaker 1: feel left out of oh nights, weekends and holidays. 103 00:04:17,000 --> 00:04:18,880 Speaker 2: Yeah, you miss covering sports and you miss a lot. 104 00:04:18,920 --> 00:04:20,720 Speaker 3: You miss a lot. You don't really love it, Yeah, 105 00:04:20,720 --> 00:04:21,600 Speaker 3: you gotta really love it. 106 00:04:22,760 --> 00:04:26,880 Speaker 1: You started your career writing, since transitioned mostly to broadcast 107 00:04:26,960 --> 00:04:29,960 Speaker 1: as well, How has that evolved for you? 108 00:04:30,400 --> 00:04:34,640 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's been really fun. I think that it started 109 00:04:34,760 --> 00:04:37,640 Speaker 2: because when I was at USA today less than a 110 00:04:37,720 --> 00:04:40,359 Speaker 2: year into my first full time job. There was a 111 00:04:40,400 --> 00:04:44,440 Speaker 2: major reorg and they made everybody reapply for their jobs 112 00:04:44,600 --> 00:04:46,280 Speaker 2: and you could apply for any jobs. How I became 113 00:04:46,320 --> 00:04:49,279 Speaker 2: like a reporter versus like I was an editor for 114 00:04:49,400 --> 00:04:52,560 Speaker 2: my first year, and I just was so nervous. I 115 00:04:52,640 --> 00:04:54,520 Speaker 2: was like, oh my gosh, like they're just it was 116 00:04:54,560 --> 00:04:58,520 Speaker 2: like it was such a seismic thing to go through 117 00:04:58,560 --> 00:05:01,719 Speaker 2: so early in my career that you're like I can't ever, 118 00:05:01,880 --> 00:05:03,440 Speaker 2: like I don't want to get laid off. I want 119 00:05:03,480 --> 00:05:05,719 Speaker 2: to make sure I'm so valuable. So I just was 120 00:05:05,720 --> 00:05:07,320 Speaker 2: like raising my hand for everything. It was like, here, 121 00:05:07,279 --> 00:05:09,560 Speaker 2: I want to do an Instagram takeover from the Final four, Yes, 122 00:05:10,040 --> 00:05:11,560 Speaker 2: I want anyone want to do a podcast? 123 00:05:11,680 --> 00:05:11,880 Speaker 1: Yes. 124 00:05:11,920 --> 00:05:14,839 Speaker 2: It was just like I'm going to be as versatile 125 00:05:14,880 --> 00:05:18,599 Speaker 2: as possible and comfortable on every medium. And so you know, 126 00:05:18,720 --> 00:05:21,400 Speaker 2: I remember like doing radio hits and being so nervous 127 00:05:21,440 --> 00:05:23,960 Speaker 2: for them and then just getting better and better by 128 00:05:23,960 --> 00:05:25,880 Speaker 2: doing it more. And it was the same thing with TV. 129 00:05:26,040 --> 00:05:28,479 Speaker 2: I was doing studio stuff for the Big ten network, 130 00:05:28,960 --> 00:05:31,520 Speaker 2: and I knew like I had the information, but you 131 00:05:31,640 --> 00:05:33,640 Speaker 2: have to learn like how to deliver it and like 132 00:05:33,680 --> 00:05:35,800 Speaker 2: the right length of time, Like so now then you're 133 00:05:35,880 --> 00:05:38,360 Speaker 2: like body clock goes off when you like feel yourself 134 00:05:38,360 --> 00:05:41,560 Speaker 2: being too long winded. So there was just like a 135 00:05:41,600 --> 00:05:43,920 Speaker 2: lot of that was just by experience, but I wanted 136 00:05:43,920 --> 00:05:45,680 Speaker 2: to cast a wide net. I wanted to do all 137 00:05:45,760 --> 00:05:49,080 Speaker 2: of these different platforms to be comfortable on them, and 138 00:05:49,120 --> 00:05:51,680 Speaker 2: then it created opportunities as well. And I just think 139 00:05:51,720 --> 00:05:54,040 Speaker 2: like they all feed into each other. So I still 140 00:05:54,279 --> 00:05:57,560 Speaker 2: can write. But you know, I'll like, after three hours 141 00:05:57,600 --> 00:05:59,360 Speaker 2: on a radio show, I might like have an opinion 142 00:05:59,360 --> 00:06:01,760 Speaker 2: on something of like talked my way into how I 143 00:06:01,760 --> 00:06:03,440 Speaker 2: feel about something, and I'll be like, oh, that should 144 00:06:03,440 --> 00:06:06,000 Speaker 2: be a column too, I should write that, And then oh, 145 00:06:06,040 --> 00:06:08,000 Speaker 2: I can make that like a thirty second sound bite 146 00:06:08,000 --> 00:06:10,440 Speaker 2: on TV on Saturday as well, because this is how 147 00:06:10,440 --> 00:06:12,200 Speaker 2: I feel about it. But like I worked out on 148 00:06:12,279 --> 00:06:15,840 Speaker 2: multiple platforms. Yeah, so I think they build into each other. 149 00:06:15,920 --> 00:06:18,320 Speaker 2: And for me as someone you know, again, let's say 150 00:06:18,320 --> 00:06:21,600 Speaker 2: in college football season, thinking about the same thing all 151 00:06:21,640 --> 00:06:24,039 Speaker 2: the time, but like thinking about how to communicate it 152 00:06:24,040 --> 00:06:26,880 Speaker 2: on different platforms is a fun challenge. It's like a 153 00:06:26,920 --> 00:06:30,119 Speaker 2: creative challenge to go through. So I like that as well, 154 00:06:30,160 --> 00:06:33,760 Speaker 2: that it's all the same topics, but they're totally different ways. 155 00:06:33,760 --> 00:06:37,120 Speaker 2: That you're addressing them or communicating them or making them effective. Yeah, 156 00:06:37,160 --> 00:06:38,320 Speaker 2: and I like that challenge. 157 00:06:38,480 --> 00:06:41,679 Speaker 1: It is interesting too because covering the sports or sports 158 00:06:41,800 --> 00:06:44,000 Speaker 1: the way that you do, it's not only keeping up 159 00:06:44,040 --> 00:06:47,839 Speaker 1: with the storylines and the variety of plot lines throughout 160 00:06:47,880 --> 00:06:49,560 Speaker 1: the leagues or the teams. 161 00:06:49,360 --> 00:06:50,320 Speaker 3: But also the people. 162 00:06:50,400 --> 00:06:52,080 Speaker 1: And one thing that you have always been good at, 163 00:06:52,120 --> 00:06:54,440 Speaker 1: since I've known you well before that is you're really 164 00:06:54,480 --> 00:06:57,240 Speaker 1: good at keeping in touch and touching base with people 165 00:06:57,320 --> 00:06:58,440 Speaker 1: and maintaining and building. 166 00:06:58,440 --> 00:07:00,440 Speaker 2: This is why we're still friends. I don't leave in 167 00:07:00,440 --> 00:07:01,640 Speaker 2: New York anymore exactly. 168 00:07:02,040 --> 00:07:04,840 Speaker 1: But it is so fascinating too because when you look 169 00:07:04,880 --> 00:07:08,200 Speaker 1: at covering the entirety of college football and college basketball, 170 00:07:08,200 --> 00:07:11,680 Speaker 1: these are really big worlds. How do you number one 171 00:07:11,840 --> 00:07:15,120 Speaker 1: organically build those relationships and maintain them in an authentic way. 172 00:07:15,240 --> 00:07:17,480 Speaker 2: It's really hard because I don't think anyone loves cold 173 00:07:17,520 --> 00:07:20,800 Speaker 2: calling or cold texting people, but you have to do that, 174 00:07:20,880 --> 00:07:23,840 Speaker 2: especially like from a national standpoint, there's not that many 175 00:07:24,160 --> 00:07:26,440 Speaker 2: opportunities to see everyone in person, so I do try 176 00:07:26,480 --> 00:07:28,720 Speaker 2: to go to those like if there are, you know, 177 00:07:28,760 --> 00:07:30,840 Speaker 2: like the Final four, a lot of coaches and eighties 178 00:07:30,880 --> 00:07:33,800 Speaker 2: and people will be there or different sets of meetings 179 00:07:33,840 --> 00:07:35,640 Speaker 2: throughout the year where you can at least see a 180 00:07:35,680 --> 00:07:38,960 Speaker 2: lot of people in one place, and just trying to 181 00:07:39,000 --> 00:07:40,840 Speaker 2: maximize that, like to the point where like you go 182 00:07:40,920 --> 00:07:42,200 Speaker 2: back to your hotel room at the end of the 183 00:07:42,240 --> 00:07:44,040 Speaker 2: night and you just sit in silence for ten minutes 184 00:07:44,040 --> 00:07:46,119 Speaker 2: because you're so tired of being on and talking to people, 185 00:07:46,800 --> 00:07:49,080 Speaker 2: which is basically the combine right for NFL people, like 186 00:07:49,120 --> 00:07:52,680 Speaker 2: it's the same type of experience. So it's some of 187 00:07:52,680 --> 00:07:55,160 Speaker 2: that and just kind of like forcing yourself to do it. 188 00:07:55,200 --> 00:07:57,680 Speaker 2: But I think it's just about a curiosity with people. 189 00:07:57,760 --> 00:08:00,440 Speaker 2: I think you need to not look at everyone you're 190 00:08:00,440 --> 00:08:02,440 Speaker 2: interacting with as like what they can do for you, 191 00:08:03,400 --> 00:08:05,680 Speaker 2: or like the transactional nature of like, oh, I hope 192 00:08:05,720 --> 00:08:08,480 Speaker 2: you know when there's the backup center broke their leg, 193 00:08:08,600 --> 00:08:10,880 Speaker 2: like they'll, you know, give that to me or confirm 194 00:08:10,880 --> 00:08:14,920 Speaker 2: it for me. I've always viewed it as like I think, 195 00:08:14,920 --> 00:08:16,160 Speaker 2: and this is what I was talking when I talk 196 00:08:16,200 --> 00:08:18,840 Speaker 2: to like students, because I think like they are looking 197 00:08:18,880 --> 00:08:20,600 Speaker 2: at like ESPN, dot com or somewhere and they just 198 00:08:20,640 --> 00:08:22,720 Speaker 2: say source source, source, source source right, and it's all 199 00:08:22,760 --> 00:08:26,000 Speaker 2: looking at injury news, transactional news. I'm like think about 200 00:08:26,040 --> 00:08:29,720 Speaker 2: it this way, Like think about building a relationship where 201 00:08:29,760 --> 00:08:32,000 Speaker 2: like the third fourth time you sit down with that person, 202 00:08:32,320 --> 00:08:34,240 Speaker 2: they're just more comfortable with you, they're more honest, they 203 00:08:34,280 --> 00:08:36,960 Speaker 2: give you better stuff. You could talk about something maybe 204 00:08:36,960 --> 00:08:38,959 Speaker 2: that was really difficult in their lives and they're willing 205 00:08:39,000 --> 00:08:42,240 Speaker 2: to because they trust you. That's like source building. That's 206 00:08:42,520 --> 00:08:45,840 Speaker 2: that's more valuable to me. And I remember those stories 207 00:08:45,840 --> 00:08:49,079 Speaker 2: in those moments more than getting you know something before 208 00:08:49,120 --> 00:08:52,480 Speaker 2: it's released, and so it's it's about like deepening those 209 00:08:52,480 --> 00:08:54,760 Speaker 2: relationships and watching them grow over a period of time, 210 00:08:54,760 --> 00:08:58,080 Speaker 2: and you can't speed that up. But that's where, like 211 00:08:58,120 --> 00:09:00,800 Speaker 2: I think that has to keep you going, because that's 212 00:09:00,840 --> 00:09:04,200 Speaker 2: the rewarding part. Like going to cool sporting events gets 213 00:09:04,240 --> 00:09:06,000 Speaker 2: old because, like you said, nights and weekends, you miss 214 00:09:06,000 --> 00:09:09,280 Speaker 2: stuff all the time. But if you care about building 215 00:09:09,320 --> 00:09:12,320 Speaker 2: relationships and getting to know people and their lives, then 216 00:09:12,440 --> 00:09:15,400 Speaker 2: it's interesting and then you keep up with it. And 217 00:09:15,440 --> 00:09:18,600 Speaker 2: I also if anyone is like intimidated by this, I'll 218 00:09:18,600 --> 00:09:20,360 Speaker 2: give you guys, like my tip that I stole from 219 00:09:20,440 --> 00:09:24,120 Speaker 2: Jay Wright, because Jay Wright is fabulous at this as well, 220 00:09:24,120 --> 00:09:26,600 Speaker 2: Like he's so good people and obviously the college basketball 221 00:09:26,640 --> 00:09:30,080 Speaker 2: recruiter you have to be. He would tell me that 222 00:09:30,160 --> 00:09:33,400 Speaker 2: he would have like his in his phone, like on 223 00:09:33,520 --> 00:09:36,240 Speaker 2: the contact page at the bottom there's notes, and he 224 00:09:36,280 --> 00:09:40,200 Speaker 2: would write notes. He'd write like a wives name, kids' names, 225 00:09:40,520 --> 00:09:43,160 Speaker 2: topics that you talked about, so that the next time 226 00:09:43,160 --> 00:09:44,720 Speaker 2: you bring it up or talk to that person, you 227 00:09:44,760 --> 00:09:49,280 Speaker 2: remember like specifically jogs your memory. And so it's just 228 00:09:49,320 --> 00:09:52,560 Speaker 2: like little things too again, like the human pieces of 229 00:09:52,640 --> 00:09:56,400 Speaker 2: these jobs. And it actually bothers me sometimes in networking 230 00:09:56,400 --> 00:09:58,800 Speaker 2: settings when like you're talking to someone about like their 231 00:09:58,800 --> 00:10:01,840 Speaker 2: lives or travel or like things about the hobbies that 232 00:10:01,840 --> 00:10:03,920 Speaker 2: make them people, and then somebody jumps in and tries 233 00:10:03,920 --> 00:10:06,040 Speaker 2: to say it like a work question in right, that's 234 00:10:06,120 --> 00:10:07,880 Speaker 2: what this is about. Yeah, I don't ruin the moment, 235 00:10:08,040 --> 00:10:09,800 Speaker 2: So it's that type of stuff. I don't know, Like 236 00:10:09,840 --> 00:10:12,959 Speaker 2: I feel like if that didn't energize me, then I 237 00:10:12,960 --> 00:10:14,480 Speaker 2: wouldn't want to do this job. Right. 238 00:10:14,720 --> 00:10:16,840 Speaker 1: Well, it is fascinating too, because you point out when 239 00:10:16,840 --> 00:10:19,440 Speaker 1: you're reading Sports Illustrated for example, and you said, oh, wow, 240 00:10:19,480 --> 00:10:22,000 Speaker 1: these are real people that do this, because I think 241 00:10:22,040 --> 00:10:27,040 Speaker 1: some so often people look at athletes, coaches, media members 242 00:10:27,120 --> 00:10:31,280 Speaker 1: as ideas instead of real human beings with human problems 243 00:10:31,280 --> 00:10:34,520 Speaker 1: and human day to day and having those human interactions 244 00:10:34,520 --> 00:10:36,200 Speaker 1: instead of hey I need this from you, Hey I 245 00:10:36,240 --> 00:10:39,280 Speaker 1: need that from you is so valuable when you're building 246 00:10:39,760 --> 00:10:44,120 Speaker 1: a longer career too, and you have been around not 247 00:10:44,200 --> 00:10:48,120 Speaker 1: just college sports, You've covered multiple Olympics, You've covered so 248 00:10:48,320 --> 00:10:52,440 Speaker 1: many different sports. Keeping all those worlds safe or keeping 249 00:10:52,440 --> 00:10:55,560 Speaker 1: all those worlds together is a real skill, and it's 250 00:10:55,559 --> 00:10:57,719 Speaker 1: something that not everyone can do, and some people can 251 00:10:57,760 --> 00:11:01,080 Speaker 1: work towards and all that, but it's really admirable. How 252 00:11:01,120 --> 00:11:04,079 Speaker 1: do you ever just get like fried, like who are 253 00:11:04,160 --> 00:11:05,640 Speaker 1: all these people in my phone? 254 00:11:05,920 --> 00:11:06,120 Speaker 3: Yes? 255 00:11:06,200 --> 00:11:10,200 Speaker 2: Sometimes, but also again, like you cycle through it, like 256 00:11:10,280 --> 00:11:12,760 Speaker 2: when you know and there's like a swimming story and 257 00:11:12,800 --> 00:11:14,800 Speaker 2: an Olympic cycle, it's like fun to get to catch 258 00:11:14,840 --> 00:11:16,679 Speaker 2: up with people I don't talk to all the time. 259 00:11:17,600 --> 00:11:19,880 Speaker 2: When I left USA today for the Athletic I wasn't 260 00:11:19,880 --> 00:11:21,680 Speaker 2: sure I would ever get to cover an Olympics again, 261 00:11:22,200 --> 00:11:24,720 Speaker 2: but you know, yeah, you're keeping up with them occasionally. 262 00:11:24,800 --> 00:11:26,800 Speaker 2: I did a podcast series, so again, swimming was the 263 00:11:26,800 --> 00:11:30,080 Speaker 2: sport that I had covered, and I'd covered two Olympics 264 00:11:30,080 --> 00:11:32,839 Speaker 2: that Usay today, I'd gotten to know Bob Bowman really well. 265 00:11:32,840 --> 00:11:35,000 Speaker 2: Michael Phelps is a longtime coach. Now he's at the 266 00:11:35,080 --> 00:11:37,560 Speaker 2: University of Texas, but we kept to touch. We were 267 00:11:37,600 --> 00:11:40,120 Speaker 2: Instagram friends. He went to he coached at Michigan, so 268 00:11:40,200 --> 00:11:42,680 Speaker 2: like anytime there was like Michigan related things, he would 269 00:11:42,720 --> 00:11:45,920 Speaker 2: pop up. And so like in COVID, I was doing 270 00:11:45,960 --> 00:11:48,480 Speaker 2: a podcast series for Serious XM and the premise was 271 00:11:48,520 --> 00:11:51,000 Speaker 2: actually like what we were just talking about about hobbies 272 00:11:51,000 --> 00:11:53,760 Speaker 2: and passions that are not coaching, right, and so I 273 00:11:53,880 --> 00:11:56,000 Speaker 2: was like, oh, Bob Bowman loves to cook. We should 274 00:11:56,000 --> 00:11:57,640 Speaker 2: do an episode with him. So we did this like 275 00:11:57,720 --> 00:12:01,520 Speaker 2: great episode about that why he loves to cook for people. 276 00:12:02,160 --> 00:12:04,120 Speaker 2: That gets into this relationship with Michael Phelves and the 277 00:12:04,200 --> 00:12:05,680 Speaker 2: kids and he, you know, he's like kind of a 278 00:12:05,679 --> 00:12:08,640 Speaker 2: grandpa figure to them and all this, and I'm like, well, 279 00:12:08,679 --> 00:12:11,160 Speaker 2: why would I have like stopped talking to him just 280 00:12:11,160 --> 00:12:12,800 Speaker 2: because I didn't know if I would ever cover swimming 281 00:12:12,800 --> 00:12:15,240 Speaker 2: again when like we have a relationship, And it was 282 00:12:15,240 --> 00:12:17,360 Speaker 2: just it was a great episode because again, like it's 283 00:12:17,440 --> 00:12:21,200 Speaker 2: years of relationships that pay off and then you just know. 284 00:12:21,360 --> 00:12:23,640 Speaker 2: And that's also someone when I didn't know swimming very well, 285 00:12:23,720 --> 00:12:25,600 Speaker 2: I could be like, hey, I have a question like, yeah, 286 00:12:25,760 --> 00:12:28,760 Speaker 2: dargon question, lingo question, like how do I talk about this? 287 00:12:28,880 --> 00:12:31,320 Speaker 2: Why does this matter? When people? I even ask like 288 00:12:31,520 --> 00:12:32,959 Speaker 2: on the backstroke, I don't know if you were a 289 00:12:33,000 --> 00:12:33,720 Speaker 2: swimmer growing. 290 00:12:33,600 --> 00:12:34,680 Speaker 3: Up, Oh yeah, I was life guards. 291 00:12:34,720 --> 00:12:36,520 Speaker 2: Oh okay, yeah you would know this. But like I 292 00:12:36,559 --> 00:12:38,480 Speaker 2: was like, how on the backstroke do they know when 293 00:12:38,520 --> 00:12:39,800 Speaker 2: they're going to hit the wall? Exactly? 294 00:12:40,920 --> 00:12:41,319 Speaker 3: Yeah? 295 00:12:41,360 --> 00:12:43,040 Speaker 1: And I was like, oh, that makes so much sense, right, 296 00:12:43,240 --> 00:12:45,240 Speaker 1: Like a lot of people just think they're decorative. 297 00:12:45,679 --> 00:12:48,640 Speaker 2: I was. I never was a competitive summer. I'm covering 298 00:12:48,640 --> 00:12:50,199 Speaker 2: some summers the highest level. It seems like such a 299 00:12:50,240 --> 00:12:52,560 Speaker 2: dumb question. But Bob would always be like, no, don't 300 00:12:52,600 --> 00:12:55,160 Speaker 2: questions like, I'm happy to help explain. So you need 301 00:12:55,240 --> 00:12:58,200 Speaker 2: those types of people in those relationships, but then why 302 00:12:58,240 --> 00:12:59,720 Speaker 2: would you give him up. So that's kind of where 303 00:12:59,720 --> 00:13:02,280 Speaker 2: I am, and like covering a lot of different topics, 304 00:13:02,280 --> 00:13:03,839 Speaker 2: like even being this is my first time at the 305 00:13:03,960 --> 00:13:07,040 Speaker 2: NFL combine. I don't know a lot of people like 306 00:13:07,280 --> 00:13:09,640 Speaker 2: on NFL teams, but there's college guys that have gone 307 00:13:09,640 --> 00:13:11,480 Speaker 2: back and forth, and then there's media people like that 308 00:13:11,520 --> 00:13:13,560 Speaker 2: it's great to catch up with. And so I just 309 00:13:13,559 --> 00:13:16,840 Speaker 2: think you really never know where your career is gonna 310 00:13:16,880 --> 00:13:18,880 Speaker 2: go and where like it's gonna be full circle, or 311 00:13:18,920 --> 00:13:23,000 Speaker 2: who you're gonna cross paths with, Like the the comms 312 00:13:23,040 --> 00:13:25,360 Speaker 2: person at USA Swimming when I first started covering swimming 313 00:13:25,679 --> 00:13:28,679 Speaker 2: now runs the Rose Bowl, So like that's like directly 314 00:13:28,800 --> 00:13:31,160 Speaker 2: in all of the things that I cover. But I 315 00:13:31,200 --> 00:13:33,680 Speaker 2: didn't know that, right, So you just you just never know. 316 00:13:33,720 --> 00:13:35,640 Speaker 2: And so I think it's just valuable to treat people 317 00:13:35,679 --> 00:13:39,000 Speaker 2: well and treat people like they're important, because I've also 318 00:13:39,040 --> 00:13:42,040 Speaker 2: seen people in rbls dismiss people based on like their 319 00:13:42,080 --> 00:13:44,080 Speaker 2: current role, right or would be like, oh, they're not worth 320 00:13:44,120 --> 00:13:47,160 Speaker 2: my time or not worth a conversation, and then that 321 00:13:47,200 --> 00:13:50,000 Speaker 2: person like advances advances. I give it to remember that. 322 00:13:50,080 --> 00:13:52,040 Speaker 1: Yeah, I give this advice to people all the time. 323 00:13:52,120 --> 00:13:54,040 Speaker 1: It's like, hey, you never know your intern could be 324 00:13:54,080 --> 00:13:55,160 Speaker 1: your boss one day. 325 00:13:55,360 --> 00:13:56,120 Speaker 3: Life is long. 326 00:13:56,240 --> 00:13:59,000 Speaker 1: But also all people are people, and if you treat 327 00:13:59,040 --> 00:14:01,160 Speaker 1: them that way, it's you know, it's a small industry. 328 00:14:01,360 --> 00:14:02,240 Speaker 2: Yeah. 329 00:14:02,360 --> 00:14:05,720 Speaker 1: The Giants NFL combine coverage is presented by Hospital for 330 00:14:05,800 --> 00:14:09,760 Speaker 1: Special Surgery, the world's number one in orthopedics. Choose Better, 331 00:14:10,040 --> 00:14:13,880 Speaker 1: Move Better HSS, the official hospital of the New York Giants. 332 00:14:14,280 --> 00:14:17,040 Speaker 1: It's you know, you mentioned the advice that Jay Wright 333 00:14:17,080 --> 00:14:18,920 Speaker 1: gave you about the contacts, which I think is a 334 00:14:18,920 --> 00:14:21,280 Speaker 1: really great point because so often, you know, you think, oh, wow, 335 00:14:21,320 --> 00:14:23,560 Speaker 1: I want to ask this person about their vacation or this, or. 336 00:14:23,480 --> 00:14:26,560 Speaker 2: That I'm not great with names. So like the idea 337 00:14:26,600 --> 00:14:28,720 Speaker 2: of like keeping track of spouses and kids' names. 338 00:14:28,520 --> 00:14:30,360 Speaker 3: And yeah, helpful, helpful, helpful. 339 00:14:30,640 --> 00:14:34,080 Speaker 1: When you look at getting started in this field in 340 00:14:34,080 --> 00:14:36,320 Speaker 1: sports media, or perhaps over the course. 341 00:14:36,120 --> 00:14:38,280 Speaker 3: Of the years that you've been doing it, is there. 342 00:14:38,280 --> 00:14:41,280 Speaker 1: Someone that has stood out to you as a mentor, 343 00:14:41,320 --> 00:14:43,360 Speaker 1: as an advisor that you really value. 344 00:14:43,680 --> 00:14:46,640 Speaker 2: Yeah, so I think in the very early stages, and again, 345 00:14:46,680 --> 00:14:50,280 Speaker 2: if any students are listening, like, really you take advantage 346 00:14:50,280 --> 00:14:54,240 Speaker 2: of the resources near you. Michael Rosenberg, who's that Sports Illustrated, 347 00:14:54,800 --> 00:14:57,520 Speaker 2: was a huge mentor for me. He lived in ann Arbor, 348 00:14:57,640 --> 00:14:59,560 Speaker 2: so he would and he was a former Michigan Daily 349 00:15:00,080 --> 00:15:02,080 Speaker 2: editor and so he would come and do you know, 350 00:15:02,160 --> 00:15:05,200 Speaker 2: talk to his students. But like actually using that and 351 00:15:05,240 --> 00:15:08,280 Speaker 2: like building a personal relationship with him was super, super helpful. 352 00:15:08,320 --> 00:15:11,360 Speaker 2: Like I remember going through my first job search, he 353 00:15:11,440 --> 00:15:13,800 Speaker 2: was like an invaluable resource. I remember like calling him 354 00:15:13,800 --> 00:15:16,600 Speaker 2: like very like anxious and stressed in a hotel room 355 00:15:16,680 --> 00:15:19,280 Speaker 2: about like an interview and like weighing options of like 356 00:15:19,320 --> 00:15:22,720 Speaker 2: what path my career should take. He's helped edited stories 357 00:15:22,760 --> 00:15:25,240 Speaker 2: that were really important again because you're applying br internships 358 00:15:25,240 --> 00:15:29,240 Speaker 2: and jobs, so he was just an absolutely invaluable person, 359 00:15:29,280 --> 00:15:31,720 Speaker 2: and he's such a talented writer and reporter. Like it 360 00:15:31,800 --> 00:15:34,120 Speaker 2: was a great person to just like aspire to do 361 00:15:34,200 --> 00:15:38,440 Speaker 2: the job, Like yeah, and then honestly, the other big 362 00:15:39,120 --> 00:15:41,200 Speaker 2: and and you know, you're you're inspired by anyone, right, 363 00:15:41,240 --> 00:15:43,280 Speaker 2: So you're watching, you're reading, you're you're inspired by all 364 00:15:43,320 --> 00:15:45,840 Speaker 2: of that. But it was really important for me early 365 00:15:45,880 --> 00:15:48,280 Speaker 2: in my career to have other women at my jobs 366 00:15:48,480 --> 00:15:52,400 Speaker 2: that like I could directly go to and ask for advice. 367 00:15:53,000 --> 00:15:55,720 Speaker 2: So like when I was at USA today, I was 368 00:15:55,760 --> 00:15:58,240 Speaker 2: really young. I became a national reporter at twenty three, 369 00:15:58,680 --> 00:16:02,240 Speaker 2: but I had Nancy Armor who's still there, and then 370 00:16:02,480 --> 00:16:05,600 Speaker 2: Lindsay Jones who covers the NFL for The Ringer, and 371 00:16:05,720 --> 00:16:08,280 Speaker 2: Rachel Axon, who's investigative reporter. Like I'm still in a 372 00:16:08,280 --> 00:16:10,520 Speaker 2: group chat with three of them, and that was like, 373 00:16:10,680 --> 00:16:12,840 Speaker 2: you know, over a decade ago that it started, but 374 00:16:13,000 --> 00:16:15,320 Speaker 2: like they're all at different ages and different points in 375 00:16:15,320 --> 00:16:18,200 Speaker 2: their careers, so like everyone's seen everything, you know, even 376 00:16:18,440 --> 00:16:22,000 Speaker 2: just to have a mentor that obviously aspire what they've 377 00:16:22,040 --> 00:16:25,360 Speaker 2: done with their career, but that they're accessible and that 378 00:16:25,400 --> 00:16:27,520 Speaker 2: they're reachable and that you can ask them, hey, like 379 00:16:27,520 --> 00:16:30,960 Speaker 2: how should I dress for a baseball locker room? It's 380 00:16:30,960 --> 00:16:33,800 Speaker 2: one hundred degrees, but I need to be professional. They've 381 00:16:33,840 --> 00:16:36,640 Speaker 2: been there, you know, and how to you know, come 382 00:16:36,720 --> 00:16:38,720 Speaker 2: up with strategies of like how to ask for contact 383 00:16:38,760 --> 00:16:42,880 Speaker 2: information as a woman, and when to reach out to people, 384 00:16:42,960 --> 00:16:45,600 Speaker 2: and how to keep things professional. Like all of those 385 00:16:45,600 --> 00:16:49,040 Speaker 2: things are really helpful to have people in your corner 386 00:16:49,160 --> 00:16:51,520 Speaker 2: that are automatically in your corner because you're friends with them, Yeah, 387 00:16:51,600 --> 00:16:54,040 Speaker 2: but also have been through all of these different stages 388 00:16:54,280 --> 00:16:58,040 Speaker 2: of a career and circumstances. And so I even think 389 00:16:58,120 --> 00:17:00,280 Speaker 2: like a mentor feels like so much more form then 390 00:17:00,280 --> 00:17:02,600 Speaker 2: the way I would view those women. But they basically 391 00:17:02,640 --> 00:17:04,480 Speaker 2: were for me very early in my career. 392 00:17:04,760 --> 00:17:08,040 Speaker 1: That is true, And there are so many avenues that 393 00:17:08,080 --> 00:17:10,960 Speaker 1: you have to navigate differently, Like you mentioned how to dress, 394 00:17:11,000 --> 00:17:13,320 Speaker 1: how to ask for someone's contact information, how to do 395 00:17:13,320 --> 00:17:15,639 Speaker 1: that when you're a woman in a male dominant field. 396 00:17:17,080 --> 00:17:19,000 Speaker 1: Was there a piece of advice, Like if you you know, 397 00:17:19,080 --> 00:17:21,840 Speaker 1: as you're building your sources and you're approaching a lot 398 00:17:21,880 --> 00:17:23,679 Speaker 1: of these young men and saying, hey, let me get 399 00:17:23,680 --> 00:17:25,120 Speaker 1: your contact information. 400 00:17:24,920 --> 00:17:28,840 Speaker 3: How do you do that in a way that is professional. 401 00:17:28,960 --> 00:17:31,399 Speaker 2: Well, I would always try, you know, if I was 402 00:17:31,760 --> 00:17:34,240 Speaker 2: reporting out a feature or doing something or visiting a campus, 403 00:17:34,280 --> 00:17:36,720 Speaker 2: like to ask for you know, quhone number at the end. 404 00:17:36,960 --> 00:17:38,080 Speaker 2: I just feel like if I have any other follow 405 00:17:38,160 --> 00:17:39,840 Speaker 2: up questions, just trying to like add that like in 406 00:17:39,880 --> 00:17:41,760 Speaker 2: the okay, can I get your number? If I have 407 00:17:41,800 --> 00:17:43,400 Speaker 2: any of the you know, to try to like set 408 00:17:43,400 --> 00:17:46,560 Speaker 2: the tone that it's professional. I do think that a 409 00:17:46,600 --> 00:17:49,760 Speaker 2: lot of players and coaches nowadays are so used to 410 00:17:49,800 --> 00:17:52,680 Speaker 2: having women in the roles and women asking them questions 411 00:17:52,720 --> 00:17:55,640 Speaker 2: like it's not even a question, but you know, there 412 00:17:55,640 --> 00:17:57,480 Speaker 2: are gonna be times where people are like crossing a 413 00:17:57,520 --> 00:18:00,320 Speaker 2: line or doing something. And the best line I ever 414 00:18:00,359 --> 00:18:03,040 Speaker 2: got was actually from a male editor when I was 415 00:18:03,080 --> 00:18:06,840 Speaker 2: dealing with something and he is in you know, someone 416 00:18:06,880 --> 00:18:08,920 Speaker 2: crosses the line and is like flirty or trying to 417 00:18:08,920 --> 00:18:11,000 Speaker 2: ask you out or whatever, and he gave me the 418 00:18:11,000 --> 00:18:12,280 Speaker 2: best line. I use it and I give it to 419 00:18:12,560 --> 00:18:14,760 Speaker 2: you know, women like through awesome, which is women in 420 00:18:14,760 --> 00:18:17,399 Speaker 2: sports media and other organizations. Which is I trust that 421 00:18:17,400 --> 00:18:21,000 Speaker 2: that won't interfere with our professional relationship. Yes, yeah, so 422 00:18:21,119 --> 00:18:23,200 Speaker 2: like someone that asked you, I trust that won't interfere 423 00:18:23,240 --> 00:18:25,520 Speaker 2: with our professional relationship. And it's just like it's such 424 00:18:25,520 --> 00:18:28,800 Speaker 2: a clear line, and like, remember, you owe me this 425 00:18:28,880 --> 00:18:32,159 Speaker 2: level of respect that I think is really valuable. But 426 00:18:32,240 --> 00:18:34,760 Speaker 2: you know, even when things happen, it's helpful just to 427 00:18:34,760 --> 00:18:37,040 Speaker 2: have people of like, how do you handle this? Or 428 00:18:37,680 --> 00:18:39,439 Speaker 2: do I need to like do I need to do 429 00:18:39,480 --> 00:18:41,720 Speaker 2: anything about this. I've had editors who were just like, 430 00:18:41,760 --> 00:18:43,680 Speaker 2: you don't need to cover Like again, I'm a national 431 00:18:43,720 --> 00:18:45,480 Speaker 2: but like I don't care if you ever break news 432 00:18:45,480 --> 00:18:47,080 Speaker 2: on that team, Like I don't need you to like 433 00:18:47,119 --> 00:18:49,320 Speaker 2: put yourself in a situation with someone who's treated you 434 00:18:49,359 --> 00:18:52,840 Speaker 2: that way. So it's challenging for sure. And that's why 435 00:18:52,840 --> 00:18:55,640 Speaker 2: I think it's really important to not just have older 436 00:18:55,720 --> 00:18:58,560 Speaker 2: female mentors who'd been through the ringer and all of this, 437 00:18:58,720 --> 00:19:02,000 Speaker 2: but also like your peers, Yeah, because you're experiencing it 438 00:19:02,040 --> 00:19:04,239 Speaker 2: in real time, and so I think group chats and like, 439 00:19:04,480 --> 00:19:07,360 Speaker 2: you know, our friends in this industry are really valuable 440 00:19:07,359 --> 00:19:09,600 Speaker 2: with that too. But it's just again trying to have 441 00:19:09,680 --> 00:19:12,480 Speaker 2: clear lines. You control what you can control, which is 442 00:19:12,520 --> 00:19:15,800 Speaker 2: you know, how you're dressing, the times you're texting and calling, 443 00:19:15,920 --> 00:19:18,560 Speaker 2: the tone you're using, and people are still going to 444 00:19:18,600 --> 00:19:21,760 Speaker 2: cross the line on you. But you know, just trying. 445 00:19:21,880 --> 00:19:23,680 Speaker 2: And it's so hard because you do take it personally 446 00:19:23,720 --> 00:19:25,760 Speaker 2: and you're like, what did I do wrong? But you 447 00:19:25,880 --> 00:19:28,080 Speaker 2: have to really try not to and it's very upsetting. 448 00:19:28,119 --> 00:19:31,240 Speaker 2: It's very difficult, especially when you're young. To the age 449 00:19:31,280 --> 00:19:35,480 Speaker 2: and gender. It's hard. But again that's why, like, it's 450 00:19:35,520 --> 00:19:39,000 Speaker 2: the support network and people around you, especially when you 451 00:19:39,080 --> 00:19:41,760 Speaker 2: are trying to work in news and you're going to 452 00:19:41,840 --> 00:19:43,800 Speaker 2: need to like hit people up and try to get 453 00:19:43,800 --> 00:19:49,640 Speaker 2: information at times that they understand that that's a professional relationship. 454 00:19:49,800 --> 00:19:50,600 Speaker 3: Yeah, and it is. 455 00:19:50,720 --> 00:19:54,200 Speaker 1: It is encouraging how increasingly prominent women are in all 456 00:19:54,240 --> 00:19:57,399 Speaker 1: these roles and it's still growing and evolving, but it 457 00:19:57,480 --> 00:19:59,760 Speaker 1: is something that a lot of women still navigate and 458 00:19:59,800 --> 00:20:01,959 Speaker 1: still deal with and have to find I love that 459 00:20:02,000 --> 00:20:04,040 Speaker 1: line though, and have to find, you know, classy ways 460 00:20:04,080 --> 00:20:08,920 Speaker 1: to handle shut things down to bring it back to one. Now, 461 00:20:08,960 --> 00:20:12,320 Speaker 1: you just wrapped your first full season with NBC Sports 462 00:20:13,000 --> 00:20:15,240 Speaker 1: doing college football and you'll be doing a lot of 463 00:20:15,280 --> 00:20:19,399 Speaker 1: college basketball this spring. How has that transition been to 464 00:20:19,960 --> 00:20:22,800 Speaker 1: a more full time network television. 465 00:20:23,119 --> 00:20:28,240 Speaker 2: It's been great. I the resources are incredible and just 466 00:20:28,359 --> 00:20:31,320 Speaker 2: like the full the support behind it, you know, having 467 00:20:31,400 --> 00:20:34,960 Speaker 2: researchers that can help, and I mean I try to 468 00:20:35,040 --> 00:20:37,240 Speaker 2: like remember and read a lot of things, but like 469 00:20:37,280 --> 00:20:38,879 Speaker 2: just to have people to go back and forth with, 470 00:20:39,880 --> 00:20:41,760 Speaker 2: you know, I've had a lot of I've had more 471 00:20:41,800 --> 00:20:44,320 Speaker 2: female bosses at NBC in just one year than I've 472 00:20:44,359 --> 00:20:47,359 Speaker 2: ever had in my career, and so that's awesome as well. 473 00:20:48,400 --> 00:20:51,600 Speaker 2: You know, from audio standpoint, digital standpoint, TV standpoint, it's 474 00:20:51,600 --> 00:20:53,520 Speaker 2: no nice to also have everything under one roof where 475 00:20:53,560 --> 00:20:57,879 Speaker 2: it's like a clear hierarchy. It's like, okay for our show, okay, 476 00:20:57,880 --> 00:21:00,800 Speaker 2: and then yeah, let's do some digital stuff for a 477 00:21:00,840 --> 00:21:03,560 Speaker 2: podcasts okay, and then let's write, you know, instead of 478 00:21:03,960 --> 00:21:06,359 Speaker 2: just kind of constantly feeling guilty and that you could 479 00:21:06,359 --> 00:21:07,919 Speaker 2: do more on all of these because I would have, 480 00:21:08,000 --> 00:21:10,720 Speaker 2: like I was working at different places, so I always 481 00:21:10,720 --> 00:21:13,280 Speaker 2: just kind of felt like I should do more for everyone, right, 482 00:21:13,640 --> 00:21:16,080 Speaker 2: So that part has been really really nice. But again, 483 00:21:16,080 --> 00:21:19,399 Speaker 2: the people have been awesome. Maria Taylor, our host, is 484 00:21:19,440 --> 00:21:22,640 Speaker 2: just unbelievable, and like, I know, I knew Maria before 485 00:21:23,280 --> 00:21:28,920 Speaker 2: I got the job the feature on Yeah Maria years ago, 486 00:21:29,960 --> 00:21:32,160 Speaker 2: back when we used to live so close to each other. Yeah, 487 00:21:32,280 --> 00:21:34,360 Speaker 2: she was like around the corner, just her in her 488 00:21:34,359 --> 00:21:36,760 Speaker 2: and Holly Row So I knew her, but like to 489 00:21:36,800 --> 00:21:42,000 Speaker 2: be see her work navigating the NFL and college also 490 00:21:42,200 --> 00:21:46,840 Speaker 2: with a newborn child and advocating for me and for 491 00:21:46,960 --> 00:21:49,240 Speaker 2: other women, it was just it was incredible just to 492 00:21:49,119 --> 00:21:51,400 Speaker 2: touch up powerhouse and so it was it was awesome 493 00:21:51,520 --> 00:21:54,560 Speaker 2: to experience even more of that up close and personal, 494 00:21:55,119 --> 00:21:57,800 Speaker 2: but also just like help figure out how we wanted 495 00:21:57,840 --> 00:22:00,280 Speaker 2: to cover college football, Like that was really cool about 496 00:22:00,280 --> 00:22:02,320 Speaker 2: being on the ground level there is like they got 497 00:22:02,359 --> 00:22:04,800 Speaker 2: the big ten rights they had Notre Dame, but they 498 00:22:04,800 --> 00:22:07,360 Speaker 2: were like building up a lot more college football coverage 499 00:22:07,359 --> 00:22:08,840 Speaker 2: and it was like, well, how do you want to 500 00:22:08,880 --> 00:22:12,000 Speaker 2: do it? And getting to like watch it evolve in 501 00:22:12,080 --> 00:22:15,160 Speaker 2: real time was really really cool. But I again, it's 502 00:22:15,200 --> 00:22:18,840 Speaker 2: just like everything is first class. It's unbelievable there, and 503 00:22:18,880 --> 00:22:20,960 Speaker 2: it's just been really cool to work with a lot 504 00:22:21,000 --> 00:22:22,840 Speaker 2: of women because, as you said, like the CE male 505 00:22:22,920 --> 00:22:26,080 Speaker 2: dominated field in all areas of it, so to have 506 00:22:26,119 --> 00:22:27,880 Speaker 2: like Female Bosses has been so cool. 507 00:22:28,080 --> 00:22:31,200 Speaker 1: That's incredible and it's empowering, especially as you're building something 508 00:22:31,240 --> 00:22:33,840 Speaker 1: from the ground up. In terms of that college football 509 00:22:33,880 --> 00:22:37,000 Speaker 1: coverage you have done. I mean, I remember some really 510 00:22:37,040 --> 00:22:39,560 Speaker 1: impactful stories that you've done over the years. Is there 511 00:22:39,640 --> 00:22:42,359 Speaker 1: one that sticks out to you that you think about 512 00:22:42,400 --> 00:22:45,120 Speaker 1: and you're like, this one is one that, to date, 513 00:22:45,240 --> 00:22:46,159 Speaker 1: I am most proud of. 514 00:22:46,320 --> 00:22:49,479 Speaker 2: So I'll give you two that stick out from when 515 00:22:49,520 --> 00:22:52,760 Speaker 2: I was at USA today because one is sports related. 516 00:22:52,800 --> 00:22:55,159 Speaker 2: So I did a story when James Connor first came 517 00:22:55,200 --> 00:22:58,760 Speaker 2: back from cancer. Everyone had put in requests for that. 518 00:23:00,080 --> 00:23:02,359 Speaker 2: You know, everyone wanted to tell that story because they 519 00:23:02,440 --> 00:23:05,440 Speaker 2: knew it was going to be really impactful for readers 520 00:23:05,960 --> 00:23:10,679 Speaker 2: and and pit based on my other articles their relationships 521 00:23:10,720 --> 00:23:12,680 Speaker 2: with me, they were like, Okay, we like want you 522 00:23:12,760 --> 00:23:14,399 Speaker 2: to be the one to do it first, and like 523 00:23:14,920 --> 00:23:17,480 Speaker 2: James will let you talk to his like oncologist and 524 00:23:17,520 --> 00:23:20,400 Speaker 2: like everyone involved. And so I was really really proud 525 00:23:20,440 --> 00:23:22,760 Speaker 2: of that. And you know, even today, if I ran 526 00:23:22,800 --> 00:23:24,639 Speaker 2: into James Connor, he would come up to me and 527 00:23:24,640 --> 00:23:25,960 Speaker 2: give me a hug, like it was you guys, almost 528 00:23:26,000 --> 00:23:28,200 Speaker 2: write a book. Yeah, we did almost write a book. Yeah, 529 00:23:28,359 --> 00:23:30,320 Speaker 2: you know, it was just like it's one of those 530 00:23:30,320 --> 00:23:32,720 Speaker 2: stories that's always gonna stick with you. And so he 531 00:23:32,800 --> 00:23:35,080 Speaker 2: was obviously incredibly easy to root for and still is, 532 00:23:35,800 --> 00:23:38,520 Speaker 2: you know, with his professional career. But there was a 533 00:23:38,560 --> 00:23:42,000 Speaker 2: story that you know, we cover sports, it is usually 534 00:23:42,280 --> 00:23:44,480 Speaker 2: because you know, you like sports and games, and like, 535 00:23:44,480 --> 00:23:46,480 Speaker 2: it's usually lighter. I've covered a lot of the business 536 00:23:46,520 --> 00:23:50,440 Speaker 2: of college sports, so it's like not light, but not again, 537 00:23:50,520 --> 00:23:53,600 Speaker 2: it's it's different. It's it's business stories. But when I 538 00:23:53,640 --> 00:23:57,119 Speaker 2: was at USA today, I did a story on Jessica Gawie, 539 00:23:57,320 --> 00:24:00,800 Speaker 2: who was killed in the Aurora Theater shooting. She was 540 00:24:00,840 --> 00:24:04,479 Speaker 2: an aspiring sports broadcaster and I just remember when she 541 00:24:04,880 --> 00:24:07,959 Speaker 2: was killed that there were all these remembrances of, you know, 542 00:24:08,119 --> 00:24:09,960 Speaker 2: just how much promise she had. I'm excited she was 543 00:24:10,000 --> 00:24:12,399 Speaker 2: about the industry, and I just remember being like, I 544 00:24:12,600 --> 00:24:15,080 Speaker 2: want to do that story justice, and so I did. 545 00:24:15,080 --> 00:24:18,639 Speaker 2: A year later. Her parents talked to me, her friends, 546 00:24:18,680 --> 00:24:20,639 Speaker 2: like I went to San Antonio, had dinner with like 547 00:24:20,640 --> 00:24:22,320 Speaker 2: all of her friends and family, and they told all 548 00:24:22,359 --> 00:24:24,920 Speaker 2: the stories doct her parents for like two hours. They're 549 00:24:24,920 --> 00:24:27,280 Speaker 2: like crying talking about the worst phone call they've ever received. 550 00:24:27,560 --> 00:24:30,440 Speaker 2: It's a really really hard story. I was also about 551 00:24:30,480 --> 00:24:35,159 Speaker 2: her age, sorry about that, and so it was just 552 00:24:35,200 --> 00:24:37,080 Speaker 2: like it was just really difficult, and I was just 553 00:24:37,119 --> 00:24:40,679 Speaker 2: so I wanted to do it right. And I just 554 00:24:40,760 --> 00:24:43,800 Speaker 2: remember hearing afterwards her brother who did decline to be 555 00:24:43,800 --> 00:24:45,080 Speaker 2: part of it. He was kind of the family spokes 556 00:24:45,080 --> 00:24:46,400 Speaker 2: and then during all of it, and so I think 557 00:24:46,400 --> 00:24:49,840 Speaker 2: he was just like not interested in media coverage. He 558 00:24:49,920 --> 00:24:51,680 Speaker 2: set me a DM and he was like, you nailed her, 559 00:24:51,920 --> 00:24:54,880 Speaker 2: like you really got her. And so that story will 560 00:24:54,880 --> 00:24:57,800 Speaker 2: always stick with me because of the degree of difficulty 561 00:24:58,000 --> 00:25:01,639 Speaker 2: and how serious it was, but also that like I 562 00:25:01,680 --> 00:25:03,960 Speaker 2: did feel like at the end, I like captured her, 563 00:25:04,480 --> 00:25:06,320 Speaker 2: which is always a fear, like when you're writing a 564 00:25:06,320 --> 00:25:08,920 Speaker 2: profile of someone. Sure, but there were stories of the athletic. 565 00:25:09,000 --> 00:25:11,200 Speaker 2: I got to do a lot of the goofier side 566 00:25:11,240 --> 00:25:15,040 Speaker 2: of college sports at the athletic, like if someone got memed, 567 00:25:15,240 --> 00:25:17,199 Speaker 2: like you know, like the do you do a series 568 00:25:17,920 --> 00:25:18,160 Speaker 2: I did. 569 00:25:19,080 --> 00:25:20,960 Speaker 3: I don't even know how you begin to track down 570 00:25:21,000 --> 00:25:21,520 Speaker 3: those people. 571 00:25:21,640 --> 00:25:24,000 Speaker 2: They were very hard. There was a girl who was 572 00:25:24,040 --> 00:25:26,800 Speaker 2: like knitting at a Kansas football game. She was like 573 00:25:27,000 --> 00:25:29,400 Speaker 2: impossible to find. She was not very active on social media, 574 00:25:29,400 --> 00:25:32,600 Speaker 2: as you can imagine, bringing their knitting needles to a 575 00:25:32,880 --> 00:25:35,760 Speaker 2: to a game, to a game, So those were always 576 00:25:35,800 --> 00:25:38,400 Speaker 2: really fun to do, so I always liked and that's 577 00:25:38,400 --> 00:25:40,520 Speaker 2: why I still try to like do stuff on stories. 578 00:25:40,520 --> 00:25:42,360 Speaker 2: On the lighter side, I did like a big pop 579 00:25:42,400 --> 00:25:44,640 Speaker 2: Tarts Bowl feature ahead of your two. 580 00:25:44,680 --> 00:25:46,919 Speaker 3: Who doesn't love the pop Tit, I really do. 581 00:25:47,000 --> 00:25:51,080 Speaker 2: They're geniuses. But like, I think it's really important at 582 00:25:51,080 --> 00:25:54,800 Speaker 2: these jobs. You know, sometimes people take themselves too seriously, 583 00:25:54,920 --> 00:25:58,040 Speaker 2: but also take sports seriously. And I think it's important 584 00:25:58,080 --> 00:26:01,800 Speaker 2: to be connected to like goofy as parts and college 585 00:26:01,840 --> 00:26:04,679 Speaker 2: football even more than the NFL lends itself to goofy 586 00:26:04,760 --> 00:26:07,440 Speaker 2: and crazy and ridiculous. And I think if you don't 587 00:26:07,640 --> 00:26:09,560 Speaker 2: cover it or touch that or talk to fans who 588 00:26:09,600 --> 00:26:12,399 Speaker 2: love that stuff, you're kind of losing. You lose some 589 00:26:12,440 --> 00:26:14,720 Speaker 2: of like the what makes it so special the part 590 00:26:14,760 --> 00:26:15,320 Speaker 2: of the sport. 591 00:26:16,359 --> 00:26:19,400 Speaker 4: So I like to have that very wide range yeah 592 00:26:19,440 --> 00:26:21,159 Speaker 4: that I get to covered. You got to touch it all. 593 00:26:21,480 --> 00:26:24,960 Speaker 4: Get you someone who can touch the whole range of it, Nicole. 594 00:26:25,400 --> 00:26:28,240 Speaker 4: Before we wrap this up, I just wanted to get 595 00:26:28,280 --> 00:26:30,360 Speaker 4: your take on a piece of advice that you would 596 00:26:30,400 --> 00:26:32,720 Speaker 4: give some of our young listeners who might want to 597 00:26:32,760 --> 00:26:35,680 Speaker 4: get into this industry, this world, something you wish you 598 00:26:35,720 --> 00:26:38,040 Speaker 4: would have known earlier in your career, or something that 599 00:26:38,080 --> 00:26:39,960 Speaker 4: you want to leave the audience with. 600 00:26:40,200 --> 00:26:42,920 Speaker 2: Yeah, well, I talked about this that Michigan did not 601 00:26:42,960 --> 00:26:46,040 Speaker 2: have a journalism major or journalism school. Don't let that 602 00:26:46,240 --> 00:26:50,280 Speaker 2: be a like a deciding factor. I really think that 603 00:26:50,600 --> 00:26:52,439 Speaker 2: this is a career that you can learn by doing, 604 00:26:52,840 --> 00:26:55,639 Speaker 2: and everyone who's gone through Michigan we take a lot 605 00:26:55,640 --> 00:26:57,440 Speaker 2: of pride in the fact that we didn't have those 606 00:26:57,480 --> 00:27:00,280 Speaker 2: things that you know, it was on us to learn learn. 607 00:27:01,000 --> 00:27:03,440 Speaker 2: We didn't have a faculty advisor. It's just like students 608 00:27:03,440 --> 00:27:06,199 Speaker 2: teaching each each other and you get internships and you 609 00:27:06,320 --> 00:27:09,160 Speaker 2: learn that way. So don't let that be like a roadblock, 610 00:27:09,840 --> 00:27:11,800 Speaker 2: you know, or think that you have to go that 611 00:27:11,880 --> 00:27:14,840 Speaker 2: path in like a very formal JA school path to 612 00:27:14,960 --> 00:27:19,240 Speaker 2: get into this profession. The other thing I would say is, 613 00:27:19,600 --> 00:27:21,680 Speaker 2: like what I was talking about earlier about group chats, 614 00:27:21,680 --> 00:27:23,840 Speaker 2: I think it's just so important to have people who 615 00:27:23,920 --> 00:27:27,400 Speaker 2: are your peers experiencing all of this and that's where, 616 00:27:27,440 --> 00:27:31,159 Speaker 2: like you know, either through internships or like I went 617 00:27:31,200 --> 00:27:33,680 Speaker 2: to like an awesome the Women in Sports Media convention 618 00:27:34,200 --> 00:27:36,480 Speaker 2: early in my career, made a lot of friends there, Yeah, 619 00:27:36,520 --> 00:27:38,159 Speaker 2: and you don't see them all the time, but like 620 00:27:38,560 --> 00:27:42,000 Speaker 2: experiencing the same things that you are, especially early in 621 00:27:42,040 --> 00:27:44,000 Speaker 2: your career where you're like, well what if you know, 622 00:27:44,000 --> 00:27:45,480 Speaker 2: what if I hate my first job? Or how long 623 00:27:45,480 --> 00:27:46,879 Speaker 2: do I need to stay at a job before I 624 00:27:46,880 --> 00:27:49,440 Speaker 2: can make moves? How do I negotiate? Like they're going 625 00:27:49,440 --> 00:27:51,080 Speaker 2: through all of that in real time with you. So 626 00:27:51,160 --> 00:27:53,280 Speaker 2: I think it's really important not just to find mentors, 627 00:27:53,280 --> 00:27:56,000 Speaker 2: but to find peers that you really connect with and 628 00:27:56,040 --> 00:27:58,800 Speaker 2: can kind of grow through the industry with. And I 629 00:27:58,800 --> 00:28:01,640 Speaker 2: think that that's those are the keys to me. But again, 630 00:28:01,720 --> 00:28:04,520 Speaker 2: the curiosity. Don't do it because you like sports. Do 631 00:28:04,600 --> 00:28:07,920 Speaker 2: it because you like people and you care about the relationships. 632 00:28:08,680 --> 00:28:11,600 Speaker 2: You care about the why behind something, not just oh 633 00:28:11,640 --> 00:28:13,159 Speaker 2: it's cool I get to go to a game for 634 00:28:13,280 --> 00:28:14,000 Speaker 2: my job R right. 635 00:28:14,080 --> 00:28:16,440 Speaker 3: Yeah, it looks good on it looks good on social media. 636 00:28:16,720 --> 00:28:20,040 Speaker 2: Part really fast. Yeah, And it's the people that will 637 00:28:20,080 --> 00:28:20,640 Speaker 2: keep you going. 638 00:28:21,240 --> 00:28:23,720 Speaker 1: Well, Nicole hour back, thank you so much for taking 639 00:28:23,720 --> 00:28:26,119 Speaker 1: the time today. On her playbook. You can find Nicole 640 00:28:26,200 --> 00:28:29,080 Speaker 1: on NBC Sports is a lead college football and lead 641 00:28:29,119 --> 00:28:33,240 Speaker 1: college basketball insider plus on Serious XM Radio. So grateful 642 00:28:33,280 --> 00:28:35,720 Speaker 1: for your time, for your insight, and for your friendship. 643 00:28:35,720 --> 00:28:38,160 Speaker 1: Literally two days into me moving to New York, met 644 00:28:38,160 --> 00:28:40,960 Speaker 1: this one and has been such a gem ever since. 645 00:28:41,000 --> 00:28:41,680 Speaker 2: It's about people. 646 00:28:41,720 --> 00:28:42,480 Speaker 3: It's about people. 647 00:28:42,800 --> 00:28:45,560 Speaker 1: Nicole hour Back on Her Playbook The Her Playbook Podcast 648 00:28:45,640 --> 00:28:48,920 Speaker 1: presented by Kendra Scott with Fashion Jewelry, Sterling, Silver and Gold, 649 00:28:49,000 --> 00:28:50,960 Speaker 1: vermet and find jewelry collections. 650 00:28:51,040 --> 00:28:52,080 Speaker 3: Kendrascott has styles 651 00:28:52,120 --> 00:28:54,479 Speaker 1: For every day, in every occasion at your local New 652 00:28:54,560 --> 00:28:57,640 Speaker 1: York area Kendrascott store or kendrascott dot com