Speaker 1: I'm Alec Baldwin and you're listening to Here's the Thing
Speaker 1: from My Heart Radio. When there are stars that are
Speaker 1: flashes in the palm that burn fast and bright, and
Speaker 1: then there are those artists that endure. On the list
Speaker 1: of musical acts that continue to sell out their concerts
Speaker 1: pre and post COVID, you will find names like Paul McCartney,
Speaker 1: The Rolling Stones, Judy Collins, Lindsey Buckingham and my guests Today.
Speaker 1: One half of the eighties powerhouse Tears for Fears Kurt Smith,
Speaker 1: This is Advice for the young at Heart from the
Speaker 1: nine album The Seeds of Love. By the mid nineteen eighties,
Speaker 1: Tears for Fears had joined a dense pack of new
Speaker 1: wave artists that included Simple Minds, Crowded House and Simply Read,
Speaker 1: and releasing some of the most popular music of the day.
Speaker 1: The duo would eventually reach the stratospheres of stardom, selling
Speaker 1: over thirty million albums worldwide. Kurt Smith first met bandmate
Speaker 1: Roland Orzebal as a teenager in Bath, England, and put
Speaker 1: out their first album, The Hurting Three. They were still
Speaker 1: booking small clubs when they released their second album, Songs
Speaker 1: from the Big Chair. By the time the tour ended, however,
Speaker 1: they had pole vaulted into stadiums. I would guess the
Speaker 1: after recording itself took a year, but it was two
Speaker 1: years between The Hurting being released on Songs with the
Speaker 1: Big Chair, which which then was a long time. You know.
Speaker 1: Obviously the Hurting it had had huge success outside of America.
Speaker 1: It was big in New York and l A. So
Speaker 1: Songs from the Big Chair. I don't want to do
Speaker 1: all on that too much, but you know, you have
Speaker 1: the number one album in the US. Quite a different
Speaker 1: situation to have the number one album the biggest market
Speaker 1: of them all. That's that's not the most sophisticated market,
Speaker 1: but it's the biggest market. It was a little crazy,
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, like I said, were because touring
Speaker 1: here was was weird after Songs in the Big Chair
Speaker 1: because before we played our first ever show in the US,
Speaker 1: we never played when we released The Hurting. There was
Speaker 1: no real market, like we could have played in New
Speaker 1: York and l A. But that was kind of it
Speaker 1: and that would be too expensive just for those shows.
Speaker 1: So the first time I ever played in America was
Speaker 1: after Songs on the Big Chair and our first show
Speaker 1: was a little club in Hartford, Connecticut, and by the
Speaker 1: time we got there, Everybody Wants To All the World
Speaker 1: was number one. So there was the sweatiest show I've
Speaker 1: ever played. I think it was ridiculous. But then slowly
Speaker 1: as we got on, as they managed to then make
Speaker 1: the venues bigger and bigger, they started changing the venues
Speaker 1: because everything had taken off, and we went across America,
Speaker 1: and by the time we got to l A, we
Speaker 1: were playing to you know, twenty thousand people. But initially
Speaker 1: you found the Ronnie Scotts of Hartford Cannemy exactly. It
Speaker 1: was interesting, but but also a little I think soul
Speaker 1: destroying is a harsh word, but it was. It became
Speaker 1: hard work and I want to get to I want
Speaker 1: to get to the same you know, the wind under
Speaker 1: your wings and you really take off, you know, number
Speaker 1: one album. The music was coming out and every I
Speaker 1: mean that was so ubiquitous, and so I'm the present
Speaker 1: songs from the Big Chair was like they were applying
Speaker 1: it to like face cream on the radio. Yeah. No,
Speaker 1: and and we you know, because of the way reccompanies
Speaker 1: were and because of at that point in time, yeah,
Speaker 1: obviously there was no streaming, so the radio radio stations
Speaker 1: were the important things. So you know, we were up
Speaker 1: doing the morning drive shows, and we were doing interviews
Speaker 1: all day long, and then sound check and then shaking
Speaker 1: hands and kissing babies from local people, you know, local
Speaker 1: radio stations and things before the show, meets, meet and
Speaker 1: greets after of the show, and it became work. I
Speaker 1: mean it was really hard work. And myself and rolland
Speaker 1: and not renowned for being the hardest of workers. We
Speaker 1: like to take our time and we really didn't enjoy
Speaker 1: it that much. And what's sad when that happens is
Speaker 1: you know, you you know, because when you get home,
Speaker 1: your your friends say, isn't this wonderful? You traveled the
Speaker 1: world and you you went to all these places, and
Speaker 1: then you have to tell them, yeah, but I didn't
Speaker 1: get to see any of them. I was just working
Speaker 1: the whole time. I didn't get to visit any So
Speaker 1: people say that to me about the movie business, they say,
Speaker 1: you know, you travel all over the world and you
Speaker 1: see I go, No, we go to work at dark
Speaker 1: in the morning, we come home it's dark at night,
Speaker 1: and if the restaurant of the hotel is closed, then
Speaker 1: I have a microwave burrito out of the vending machine
Speaker 1: exactly said, it's really not traveling with my own chef.
Speaker 1: So Roland and you meet when you're young, I mean
Speaker 1: when you're very young. And I want to just clear
Speaker 1: up one thing for people Tears for Fears. Is it
Speaker 1: more like Simon and Garth uncle and really Dan where
Speaker 1: it's two primary players and everybody else's sessions, or you
Speaker 1: had full time members of the band, you know, everyone
Speaker 1: else session musicians. I mean people thought that, certainly on
Speaker 1: songs of the Big Chair, that there was a band
Speaker 1: because we actually took a picture as a band, because Ian,
Speaker 1: our keyboard player who also co produced, works a lot
Speaker 1: on the album with us, and many a liars at
Speaker 1: that point in time was had been our drummer on
Speaker 1: the Hurting and songs in the Big Chair. I mean,
Speaker 1: I guess what happens is you can tell what who
Speaker 1: the band are by who is signed to the record label.
Speaker 1: The only people signed to the record label all through
Speaker 1: our career is me in Rowland, and and so then
Speaker 1: we get to pick and choose who we worked with.
Speaker 1: But we've worked with Manny any and from the Hurting
Speaker 1: through songs from the Big Chair, and we felt they
Speaker 1: were kind of band members. But before we go back
Speaker 1: to the origins, who are you and Roland? I just
Speaker 1: what what you're triggering for me now? Was this idea
Speaker 1: that was there a time when you're in a studio
Speaker 1: recording any of your albums, after you really take off,
Speaker 1: were you're there and across the room with somebody going,
Speaker 1: I can't believe I'm have this person playing sessions with
Speaker 1: my band, like the do the quality of everything just
Speaker 1: go up? Well, yeah, definitely, and everybody want to play
Speaker 1: with you eventually, I mean after songs of the Big Chair, certainly,
Speaker 1: I'm in on Seeds of Love after you know, which
Speaker 1: is our third album. Um, we got to work with
Speaker 1: man who catch A on drums. We got to work
Speaker 1: with Phil Collins on drums. You know that there were Yeah,
Speaker 1: there were people that you know, when when you ask,
Speaker 1: people will come in and play with you, you know.
Speaker 1: So we did. Although most of the stuff we tend
Speaker 1: to do ourselves. And I don't know if that's by
Speaker 1: design or just that that's how we work sometimes that
Speaker 1: that normally happens when we hear a specific person, So
Speaker 1: say with Phil Collins playing on Woman in Chains, we
Speaker 1: heard Phil Collins. I mean, we heard there's a track
Speaker 1: on Petergether's third album called No Self Control that has
Speaker 1: this drum fill in, and that's what we heard on
Speaker 1: Women in Chains. We heard these tom fills that Phil
Speaker 1: Collins with the exact same sound, with the exact same sound.
Speaker 1: We were basically everyone's asking Phil to come and play
Speaker 1: the same films. Just do that, just that exactly, And
Speaker 1: and so I was doing. I performed on this sort
Speaker 1: of all star concert at Wembley Stadium for Nelson Mandela's
Speaker 1: birthday when Nelson Mandela was still in jail and Phil
Speaker 1: was the drummer, and I came on and sang, and
Speaker 1: so then I asked him, I said, would you would
Speaker 1: you come and drum on this one song that I
Speaker 1: we just hear you drumming on And he said, yeah,
Speaker 1: I'd love to, and and so I said we should
Speaker 1: I book a few days in the studio. He's like,
Speaker 1: well one, now, I'd come in around one. I'm I'm
Speaker 1: sure I'll be home by tea time, you know, and
Speaker 1: so and he was. But also we had a mutual friend,
Speaker 1: Hugh Padgum, who's a producer who produced Phil's albums and
Speaker 1: the Peter Gabriel album, and so I got Hu to
Speaker 1: come in and get the drum sound before Phil arrived,
Speaker 1: and I think Phil did it in like two takes
Speaker 1: and then went home. So where do you meet? Um?
Speaker 1: We met in my hometown of Bath. He had just
Speaker 1: moved to Bath. He grew up in a place called
Speaker 1: Portsmouth on the south coast of England. And we had
Speaker 1: this mutual friend who went to school with him. He
Speaker 1: was at a different school than me and Bath, but
Speaker 1: the mutual friend lived near me and so I knew him,
Speaker 1: and he was a musician of ace player actually, and
Speaker 1: we met and we kind of hit it off, even
Speaker 1: though we really were kind of polar opposites. But I
Speaker 1: think when you were playing one at the time, I
Speaker 1: wasn't playing anything at the time. I was singing. I mean,
Speaker 1: I've been in a choir since I was four, and
Speaker 1: I loved singing. It's interesting if if I think back
Speaker 1: on it, because I used to sing all the time
Speaker 1: around when since the age of like three or four,
Speaker 1: I would sing more than I would talk. Um, I
Speaker 1: would sing along to things on the radio. I would
Speaker 1: just sing things. And my mother was just got tired
Speaker 1: of it and she and she's like, get out of
Speaker 1: the house and sing. Go go go join the choir.
Speaker 1: If that you love singing, that must go join a
Speaker 1: quiet And when you were in public singing, when when
Speaker 1: this shy, you seem shy. Did you sing more than
Speaker 1: your talk because you were shy? Maybe I think that
Speaker 1: there's a part of it. And I was a very
Speaker 1: shy kid and and still am a shy. I wouldn't
Speaker 1: say shy. I'm more of an introvert than shy. I
Speaker 1: guess what's interesting is that's what I sense. I'm not
Speaker 1: saying this to be kind. What I sense is you
Speaker 1: are unlike many people where they can go and s
Speaker 1: and gears and they can sing certain ways. But then
Speaker 1: there were those people who can sing and the singing
Speaker 1: is has a powerful emotional undercurrent that at the same
Speaker 1: time they sit on it, they don't go too far. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean, it's it's it's I find it an easier
Speaker 1: medium to communicate with than talking to people. I don't
Speaker 1: know that you know, even though this is quite comfortable,
Speaker 1: sometimes it can be hard, you know, since you know
Speaker 1: it can be difficult, and you know I'm a homebody,
Speaker 1: I'm I would say, I'm kind of an introvert. I'm
Speaker 1: comfortable with a small group of friends. Put me in
Speaker 1: a big group that I don't know anyone, I am
Speaker 1: completely uncomfortable. I'm the guy standing out in the corner.
Speaker 1: I don't have stage right digitally well, people eventually, what
Speaker 1: what's what's interesting is and and and I see this
Speaker 1: happen with my daughter as well, who as she was
Speaker 1: growing up and certainly in her teen years through to
Speaker 1: moving to New York, had major anxiety issues. And what
Speaker 1: happens is singing is one thing I know I can do,
Speaker 1: and that my stage fright comes forehand as soon as
Speaker 1: my mouth and starts singing. I'm comfortable, I'm fine, you
Speaker 1: know what you're doing. Yeah, And I feel like I belong.
Speaker 1: But the reason I mentioned that about the emotional combined
Speaker 1: with the with the I can see your hand on
Speaker 1: a knob, and there's just the right amount of emotion
Speaker 1: like that, like you, like I'll give you a kind
Speaker 1: of what's going to seem like an incongruous reference, but
Speaker 1: like I would listen to Dylan, and Dylan would sing
Speaker 1: a song like an anthem, like and when he sings Hurricane,
Speaker 1: he sits on that indignation and only let's it belch
Speaker 1: out and when you sing this is wonderful, beautiful emotion.
Speaker 1: But you don't. I leave that to my partner. Roland
Speaker 1: is he Roland is the one that you have to
Speaker 1: try and temper down slightly. He's he's like he's jazz hands,
Speaker 1: you know, He's like, I'm out there and he'll be
Speaker 1: you know, performing, I mean he he performs. My voice
Speaker 1: has more of a tone of melancholy. I guess to
Speaker 1: it to a certain degree and on the right amount
Speaker 1: of it. Yeah, And I'm and I'm the quieter singer,
Speaker 1: you know. So basically, you know, it's it's you know,
Speaker 1: We've been asked a lot of times, you know, how
Speaker 1: how do you because it's a you know, we have
Speaker 1: a weird setup. We have two lead singers, which which
Speaker 1: is very rare, and you know, I get asked, how
Speaker 1: do you pick the songs? And it's like to us,
Speaker 1: it's becomes very obvious. You know, if something demands vocal
Speaker 1: acrobatics and power and in your face, that's going to
Speaker 1: be Roland. Is something requires a certain touch of melancholy
Speaker 1: or slightly undersung or you really want to kind of listen,
Speaker 1: that would be me so the song has become very obvious.
Speaker 1: There's not normally, there's no songs we've ever done. I
Speaker 1: don't think where we've both gone in and both think
Speaker 1: we should do it. We it becomes obvious, you know what,
Speaker 1: you can compete because we're two lead singers, so there's
Speaker 1: ego involved. But when we both try and sing a song,
Speaker 1: it's clear which one should be singing it. It becomes
Speaker 1: very clear. So we're so between your choral career and
Speaker 1: your meeting Roland, when did you first get the sense?
Speaker 1: I always wonder, you know, people say to me, you know,
Speaker 1: did you think you could act? And I say, oh
Speaker 1: god no. But my point is is that was your
Speaker 1: a point in between choral career and professional you know,
Speaker 1: beginnings with Roland, when you said yourself, I really can
Speaker 1: do this. I mean, I really think I can make
Speaker 1: a go at this. I think once myself and Roland
Speaker 1: started playing together, I mean, what happened he listened to me?
Speaker 1: So the start of our musical career together, you know,
Speaker 1: we met and we sort of became friends. Like I said,
Speaker 1: we were sort of polar opposite. Roland was kind of
Speaker 1: this sort of intellect to a certain degree, but he
Speaker 1: was a you know, straight a student, you know, graded
Speaker 1: everything at school, and by this point in my life
Speaker 1: I had gone the other way. I was the dropout,
Speaker 1: skyped off school, God in trouble, God in fights. I
Speaker 1: used to be an a student before, but but I
Speaker 1: didn't get enough attention to you do that wasn't going
Speaker 1: to help your rock and roll career. So no, I
Speaker 1: didn't get any attention from my parents. And so you know,
Speaker 1: I was singing along in my room role and was
Speaker 1: in the room to a track called the Last Days
Speaker 1: and made by Blois To. I was a big blois
Speaker 1: To cult fan at that point in time because they
Speaker 1: were bizarre for a rock band. And he wasn't comfortable
Speaker 1: being a lead singer. He was a guitar player and
Speaker 1: he he didn't think he could be a lead singer.
Speaker 1: He just wasn't did you pick up the bass guitar
Speaker 1: when we needed a bass player. So this is how
Speaker 1: we started. When we were fourteen our first band, I
Speaker 1: was the lead singer, That's what I was. Roland just
Speaker 1: played guitar and did backing vocals. And then as our
Speaker 1: career progressed, he started feeling more comfortable with lead vocals
Speaker 1: then and we realized we had two very different voices,
Speaker 1: so we gave it us an extra sort of width
Speaker 1: and breadth of music we could use. And then so
Speaker 1: we played fourteen from fourteen in the sort of this
Speaker 1: kid's band school band, and then it's around sixteen. That
Speaker 1: lasted about a year, year and a half, and then
Speaker 1: we we stopped playing together. That band fell apart and
Speaker 1: he formed another band called Graduate. I think this is
Speaker 1: when I was around sixteen, and they fired the bass
Speaker 1: player because they hated him. And so Roland came to
Speaker 1: my house and he's like, do you think you can
Speaker 1: play bass? I'm like, you want to teach me? Then? Yeah,
Speaker 1: can you play it by tomorrow? Yeah? Well basically well
Speaker 1: next week. It was basically next week. He said, I'll
Speaker 1: teach you all the parts, so you'll go yeah, and um.
Speaker 1: I went into the audition and I used it because
Speaker 1: you know, I knew all the parts and it was fine,
Speaker 1: and it seemed I was a natural at it, you know,
Speaker 1: because drums and bass are really that's the rhythm section,
Speaker 1: you know, that's the backbone of a band. And all
Speaker 1: the great bands have a good looking bass player who
Speaker 1: can sing. Paul Paul Paul well so you're Paul. Now
Speaker 1: you're the good looking bass player who can sing exactly
Speaker 1: what Paul. Paul was kind of a hero of a
Speaker 1: Phill lineup was my other hero from Thin Lizzy, and
Speaker 1: he was the bass player who sang so yeah between
Speaker 1: Paul McCartney and Phil Line. And I'm like, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: I can, I can do this. I see myself in
Speaker 1: that pantheon exactly. And so I learned to play bass
Speaker 1: at sixteen and have continued since then and have become
Speaker 1: you know now now I've I've become competent musician. Kurt Smith.
Speaker 1: If you love conversations with contemplative rockers from the nineteen eighties,
Speaker 1: be sure to check out my episode with ari E
Speaker 1: Ms Michael Stipe in a band dynamic, everyone's got an idea,
Speaker 1: in an opinion, and what happened, what happens when it
Speaker 1: all comes together? Is this this beautiful compromise where one
Speaker 1: person kind of oversees one part, another overseas another part.
Speaker 1: Somehow it all works, and that chemistry served us pretty
Speaker 1: well for most of her career. But but it was,
Speaker 1: you know, it was at times very very difficult. Here
Speaker 1: the rest of my conversation with Michael Stipe that Here's
Speaker 1: the Thing dot Org. After the break, Kurt Smith shares
Speaker 1: what was going on in his head when he left
Speaker 1: Tears for Fears at the height of their fame. I'm
Speaker 1: Alec Baldwin and you were listening to Hear's the Thing.
Speaker 1: Peter Jackson's recent Beatles documentary Get Back vividly demonstrates how
Speaker 1: even the most successful acts are not without their tensions.
Speaker 1: I like the Beatles, many artists, including Simon and Garf,
Speaker 1: Uncle Journey, and The Beach Boys, just to name a few,
Speaker 1: have all experienced the growing pains that come with enormous
Speaker 1: commercial success. Tears for Fears ultimately succumbed to that same
Speaker 1: musical fate. That's Kurt Smith's bandmate Roland oors a Ball,
Speaker 1: singing head over heels from Tears for Fear's seminal album
Speaker 1: Songs from the Big Chair. After three albums and tens
Speaker 1: of millions in sales, Kurt Smith and Roland or Zibal's
Speaker 1: creative partnership was severed in Although Orzibal would go on
Speaker 1: to release two additional albums under the name Tears for Fears,
Speaker 1: it would be ten years before the duo would reunite
Speaker 1: to release new work together, including this year's album The
Speaker 1: Tipping Point. Kurt Smith shared how Tears for Fears at
Speaker 1: its essence was a sound forged by two uniquely different
Speaker 1: creative minds. Well, we had the band Graduate and and
Speaker 1: that band when we were eighteen to wait for Roland
Speaker 1: to turn eighteen, signed a record deal with the record
Speaker 1: label in England. Um, but we we never felt comfortable
Speaker 1: in that band. It was like a kind of sixties
Speaker 1: graduate Yeah, sixties kind of retrosh lighthearted pop song covers.
Speaker 1: He was doing most of the writing Roland, and still
Speaker 1: to this day it's Roland. But I would say then me,
Speaker 1: But it's it's hard to really sort of quantify the
Speaker 1: writing thing because even when Roland's writing a lot of
Speaker 1: the time, and certainly in early in our career, during
Speaker 1: the hurting especially, I'd always be in the room and
Speaker 1: i'd be I'm normally the one in the bag as
Speaker 1: I am as a sort of producer, going no, yes, yeah,
Speaker 1: that that's that's bad. Um, so you're kind of doing
Speaker 1: it together. I don't like the word tongue. Take the
Speaker 1: word tongue out exactly, well, and those things have happened
Speaker 1: like that. That line is dreadful, that's just horrible, get
Speaker 1: rid of it. And he was receptive, absolutely, Yeah, he
Speaker 1: wanted to collaborate with he wanted to amuse in the background. Yeah,
Speaker 1: And I think this happens with a lot of writers
Speaker 1: in any industry, where you can get so self involved
Speaker 1: that you don't know what's good or not. You don't
Speaker 1: know what's resonating with other people because it's all in
Speaker 1: your head. So I'm kind of the sounding board, I guess.
Speaker 1: So that's sort of how it works. When we worked together,
Speaker 1: you know, on The Hurting we did a lot more
Speaker 1: stuff together on the newest album we've done, The Tipping Point.
Speaker 1: This is the first time we've worked very closely together
Speaker 1: in a long time. Which band of viewers had the
Speaker 1: number one song in Spain that was graduate? Okay? How
Speaker 1: did how did that happen? How did English guys from
Speaker 1: Bath write a song about reggae that became the number
Speaker 1: one hit in Spain? What the hell is going on?
Speaker 1: I had no idea. I mean they kind of it's
Speaker 1: because we were young and good looks. It was. It
Speaker 1: was definitely sort of danceable and it just took off
Speaker 1: in Spain for some obscure reason. I mean, there's no
Speaker 1: rhyme or reason to it. So we had screaming girls
Speaker 1: after us in Spain and that's you know, this is
Speaker 1: how I remember when John Lennon was killed, because that's
Speaker 1: what we worked. We were in Spain promoting that single
Speaker 1: in the hotel in Spain, and so every interview ends
Speaker 1: up doing, of course, was about John Lennon. But yeah,
Speaker 1: that was weird. So it was kind of our first
Speaker 1: taste of success as such. But then as a band,
Speaker 1: we then went touring around Europe in two vans, ugging
Speaker 1: the gear, ourselves, driving ourselves and myself in Roland. As
Speaker 1: you know, I don't I don't need to say this
Speaker 1: too many times, but we were not really particularly into
Speaker 1: heart labor and we decided by the end of this
Speaker 1: three weeks of touring Germany that we'd had enough and um,
Speaker 1: we sort of sat down together and said, you know,
Speaker 1: this is not for us then, and and that the
Speaker 1: other guys in the band we loved it, you know,
Speaker 1: they loved just playing live. They were party kind of people,
Speaker 1: and we wanted to do something that had more depth.
Speaker 1: Now I'm gonna read from our prep it says the
Speaker 1: song mad World was born at the time in their
Speaker 1: lives as they were finding themselves as young adults. We
Speaker 1: were sitting in his flat, says Smith, and we were
Speaker 1: looking out the window with people going to work in
Speaker 1: existences we thought were pointless. So did you have I
Speaker 1: mean artists, You're like, what's the point? Where do we
Speaker 1: fit in? Yeah, that was the whole. That was more
Speaker 1: the point. The point was we felt we did not
Speaker 1: it in in that world. We we definitely felt outside
Speaker 1: of that world. We didn't feel we could ever be
Speaker 1: in that world. We didn't understand it. I didn't understand training,
Speaker 1: the idea of training for a career and then being
Speaker 1: in that career for the rest of your life, even
Speaker 1: though I ended up training for this career, being in
Speaker 1: this career in my all life. But I don't consider
Speaker 1: this a career because it's a passion and it's something
Speaker 1: I enjoy doing. So it's it's slightly different. But yeah,
Speaker 1: we were looking at it people and it was it
Speaker 1: was in the morning and they were all going to
Speaker 1: work and and we were like this. It was just
Speaker 1: like this sort of you know, treadmill of people going
Speaker 1: then going to lunch and then going back and then
Speaker 1: you know, five o'clock, they all go home and all
Speaker 1: kind of dressed the same, and it was just peculiar
Speaker 1: to us. So, yeah, we we felt like outsiders to
Speaker 1: a certain degree. And I think, you know, the people
Speaker 1: we related to at that point in time were each other.
Speaker 1: That was pretty much it, because we both felt the
Speaker 1: same way. Collaborators. Yeah, and that's when we, you know,
Speaker 1: when we decided to leave Graduate because we didn't feel
Speaker 1: like the other three. We didn't feel like we had
Speaker 1: any thing in common with them. They didn't feel like outsiders.
Speaker 1: They wanted, you know, to do They're going to play
Speaker 1: that same pub forever. Oh absolutely, you know, as long
Speaker 1: as they got free drinks and got laid afterwards. That
Speaker 1: was That was pretty much what they wanted to um.
Speaker 1: And we wanted to say something, you know, that was
Speaker 1: our desire. And yeah, and so we decided to leave.
Speaker 1: And and this coincided at a time in music when
Speaker 1: you know, synthesizers were just becoming bigger. The Lynn Drum
Speaker 1: Machine had just come in, which used real drum samples,
Speaker 1: even though they don't sound real to me anymore, but
Speaker 1: they were the most real you could find at that
Speaker 1: point in time. So you didn't need a drummer. You
Speaker 1: didn't need a keyboard. You know, anyone could do it.
Speaker 1: You could program it and you could sequence it yourself.
Speaker 1: So you didn't need to be an expert keyboard player.
Speaker 1: You didn't need to be a fantastic drummer. You just
Speaker 1: program it yourself. The computer was expert enough. Yeah, it
Speaker 1: would correct your timing, it would you know? It would it?
Speaker 1: Would you know, give you suggestions, you know, I mean
Speaker 1: for like a sequence like do do do do? Do?
Speaker 1: You know? What we do is hold a chord and
Speaker 1: the keyboard did it for you, you know, So it
Speaker 1: was you guys are shaping this yourselves when Roland is
Speaker 1: writing and your chip and you're pitching in there and
Speaker 1: so forth, and you're doing this stuff, and then you
Speaker 1: wind up getting into a studio where my understanding is
Speaker 1: people who get to that level, you know, once you
Speaker 1: hit it big and eighty five, they have a surge
Speaker 1: of producers that want to work with them and record
Speaker 1: with them. What did a producer give to you? What
Speaker 1: did they do for? They have any help with that
Speaker 1: with that question? We didn't need that help eventually, I
Speaker 1: mean songs. So the Big Chair was the last time
Speaker 1: we used a producer. Since then we produced ourselves with
Speaker 1: the help of an engineer or you know, someone else
Speaker 1: normally is in the studio, but but the production is
Speaker 1: normally ours because we learned enough by then, or a
Speaker 1: primal scream therapist as well. Yeah, Arthur General came to
Speaker 1: one of our shows. He came to a show in London,
Speaker 1: and uh I met him. It was very pleasant, very nice,
Speaker 1: and he's like, can I take you to lunch? He
Speaker 1: wanted to be in the business and Hollywood and he was.
Speaker 1: He was that. He was so you know all the
Speaker 1: things I dislike about Los Angeles, but you've but you've
Speaker 1: lasted there a long time, you know. I feel more
Speaker 1: at home in New York. I have to say New
Speaker 1: York is the same. New Yorkers have changed. And what's
Speaker 1: changed is there's a decrease in the number of people
Speaker 1: who got the key rule, which is you have to
Speaker 1: be very aware of other people. Whenever people said that
Speaker 1: New Yorkers were rude or what have you, I was
Speaker 1: always taken him back because I thought New Yorkers when
Speaker 1: I first came here in the late seventies to go
Speaker 1: to finish college, um, New Yorkers were some of the
Speaker 1: most respectful and polite because they knew we were in
Speaker 1: this thing together. Remember I was with a therapist years
Speaker 1: ago during the time of my life because I was
Speaker 1: living out there and I was behind the wheel of
Speaker 1: a car. So I had to stop drinking because I
Speaker 1: was ship faced drunk every for like two years in
Speaker 1: l A behind the wheel of a car. And one
Speaker 1: day I woke up and what that's got to end?
Speaker 1: And this is this therapist said to me. He goes,
Speaker 1: I have a tip for you. He says, here's the
Speaker 1: only thing I believe you need to keep in mind.
Speaker 1: That's the best form of therapy. And he said, forgive everybody.
Speaker 1: And I sat there and I go, wow, man, I go,
Speaker 1: you mean Jesus. And he goes, well, don't set your goals.
Speaker 1: That trying to lower the bar a little bit, you know,
Speaker 1: it kind of like Jesus. Maybe trying to be a
Speaker 1: little like Jesus. And I thought to myself, that blew
Speaker 1: my mind. He was just he said, just forgive everybody
Speaker 1: and move on with your which brings me to you
Speaker 1: and him when you when you split up. Now, when
Speaker 1: you split up with someone, I'm less interested in the
Speaker 1: acrimony because everything is the same. I mean, in the
Speaker 1: idea that another generation of people around the world are
Speaker 1: going to be spray painted by Beatlemania. Again, since Get
Speaker 1: Back came out, I couldn't watch it. Um it was
Speaker 1: interesting Roland watched the whole thing. I watched forty minutes
Speaker 1: and why it brought back too many bad memories. I
Speaker 1: was like, I've been there. I fucking hated it. And
Speaker 1: it's just, you know, because McCartney was Roland at that
Speaker 1: point in time, and you know, and I and I
Speaker 1: was I've actually, to be honest, I think I was
Speaker 1: probably more George. I don't know, but it was that
Speaker 1: kind of you know, someone is just getting a bit
Speaker 1: too big because I, in my opinion, you know. And
Speaker 1: again based on the first fourteen minutes I watched, although
Speaker 1: it may have been necessary because someone had to be
Speaker 1: the driving force I guess once Epstein died, indeed, someone
Speaker 1: had to be a vacuum. Yeah. And also I think,
Speaker 1: weirdly at the age they were then, I think was
Speaker 1: the age pretty much we were when we split up,
Speaker 1: so I can relate. And again it brought back bad memories,
Speaker 1: which is why I broke up. We broke up in
Speaker 1: I well, I left after Seeds of Love at the
Speaker 1: end of the tour, So I was I was twenty
Speaker 1: nine then, so late twenties, but I like that. But
Speaker 1: I'd already decided I was going to leave prior to
Speaker 1: the tour. Made the big mistake of telling Roland that
Speaker 1: before we toured. But that's a different story. Should have
Speaker 1: probably wait, you wanted to know how you felt? Yeah,
Speaker 1: and that didn't care my last tour on the surface, no,
Speaker 1: I mean he was like, what fuck you? Then? Um,
Speaker 1: but I think he was kind of hurt by it,
Speaker 1: and that's sort of probably come out since then, you know.
Speaker 1: But what it is and or at least what I've discovered,
Speaker 1: and which is why New York I've always said, and
Speaker 1: my wife, and they go hand in hand because we
Speaker 1: met in New York, the city, and my wife for
Speaker 1: my savior at that point in time, because what happens
Speaker 1: in your mid to late twenties. You don't want to
Speaker 1: be that guy from that band. You really want to
Speaker 1: be an individual you were you were still looking for
Speaker 1: your individuality and who you are is in our cases
Speaker 1: men or you know, And I think the same applies
Speaker 1: for women. That's when you're really becoming established as an
Speaker 1: individual and to be a part of this group. I
Speaker 1: didn't feel comfortable in it anymore. Plus the fame side
Speaker 1: was really screwing me up, so it wasn't healthy for me.
Speaker 1: I drank too much, probably took it was the eighties.
Speaker 1: Probably took too much cocaine at that point in time.
Speaker 1: I didn't think it was health. Really did a lot
Speaker 1: of cocaine in the eighties. Strange, so obviously you know
Speaker 1: the experience. Um, So I just didn't think it was healthy.
Speaker 1: And and England, you know, the answer to everything in
Speaker 1: England is you know, if you're older, it's put the catalan,
Speaker 1: I'll go and make some tea. Or if you're at
Speaker 1: that age is let's just go down the pub and
Speaker 1: get sucked up. You know that, will you know, if
Speaker 1: you're feeling sad, let's go to the pub. Um And
Speaker 1: I knew that's not what I needed. Um And I've
Speaker 1: met Frances in New York, and that's not the way
Speaker 1: New York operates. Particularly. I mean, obviously people drink here,
Speaker 1: and I did to a certain degree when I came here,
Speaker 1: but I stayed with a friend up stay this This
Speaker 1: was during the recording of Seeds of Love. I was.
Speaker 1: I went through a divorce during the Caesar love and
Speaker 1: it really that and the drinking and everything else that
Speaker 1: was going on just really messed me up. And I'm like, I,
Speaker 1: I can't be just going down the pub. This is
Speaker 1: not going to help. But how does the shy guy
Speaker 1: who gets married and for whatever reason, it doesn't matter,
Speaker 1: your first marriage ends. Were you at the height of
Speaker 1: your fame when the first marriage marriage ended? Was it
Speaker 1: prior No? So it was a casualty of fame to
Speaker 1: a degree, to a degree. I mean, it wasn't my choice,
Speaker 1: you know, I think you know, it was one of
Speaker 1: those things where clearly I got married too young. So
Speaker 1: what gave you the courage or gave you the ability
Speaker 1: to get married again? Oh? Well that was because I
Speaker 1: had grown up by then, you know, you know, I
Speaker 1: I to get over my divorce weirdly, I mean, this
Speaker 1: is why I have, you know, some kind of guardian
Speaker 1: angel looks so after me. But I was like, I
Speaker 1: need to go stay with someone who doesn't drink, right,
Speaker 1: So I need to just like deal with the emotion
Speaker 1: because I wasn't dealing with how hurt and destroyed I
Speaker 1: was by this divorce. I went to this tour manager
Speaker 1: and his wife, who was you know in a a
Speaker 1: I mean, not a bit of matters. But neither of
Speaker 1: them drank. So I went and stay with them in Brewster, upstate,
Speaker 1: New York. Just not that far outside the city, I guess.
Speaker 1: And I was with them depressed for like two weeks,
Speaker 1: you know, just letting the emotion out, just feeling it.
Speaker 1: And then I think after two weeks they got bored
Speaker 1: with me being there. Now that we're taking you into
Speaker 1: the city, we're going out. There's this party St. Patrick's
Speaker 1: Day party happening in It was in the meatpacking district.
Speaker 1: Let's go out, Let's get you out, come on. So
Speaker 1: I went out with them, and weirdly, that's where I
Speaker 1: met my wife. So how long did you know where
Speaker 1: after you got married? Oh, we'd got married quite a
Speaker 1: while later. Um, we dated for a while. Yeah, we
Speaker 1: lived together by the end of that year. By the
Speaker 1: end of A T eight, I bought the apartment, my
Speaker 1: apartment in New York in Soho soho, Yeah, on Mercer
Speaker 1: Street between Houston and Prince. What years were you in
Speaker 1: New York A T eight to so for me, I mean,
Speaker 1: after you get married and you have a kind of
Speaker 1: tumultuous partying with that person getting married. I was single
Speaker 1: for eleven years and it was really tough, and I
Speaker 1: dated people, and I dated one person in particularly who
Speaker 1: just got sick of the fact that I wouldn't get married.
Speaker 1: I wouldn't have had a very close relationship with them,
Speaker 1: and they were you know, I was, you know, only
Speaker 1: with that woman. But I just couldn't. I just can't
Speaker 1: do it. Well, we were my hat myself, and France
Speaker 1: has never really put much emphasis on being married. She's
Speaker 1: never taken my name. Can't blame her with the name
Speaker 1: Mike Smith. But um, you know, she was known as
Speaker 1: Francis Pennington in the industry. She's always been known as
Speaker 1: you know, as that in music industry, which you know
Speaker 1: she was well known in, especially in America. I mean,
Speaker 1: in fact, when I used to go into MTV, they
Speaker 1: used to call me Mr Pennington's because they knew Frances far. Yeah,
Speaker 1: these no know her better, far better than me. Then
Speaker 1: it gets back to your other ex who you remarry
Speaker 1: in musical terms, so how did you get back together? Well,
Speaker 1: I mean the comedy line is by facts, if anyone
Speaker 1: remembers what effects is. But no, we had ongoing business
Speaker 1: in interest together. You know, I left. We didn't speak
Speaker 1: to each other at all during my parent in how
Speaker 1: long um nine years? You know, I was just enjoying
Speaker 1: life in New York. You know that there was this
Speaker 1: joy and again the fame side, the other thing New
Speaker 1: York gave me in the fame side. In England, I
Speaker 1: lived in Bath my hometown, so I'm ostensibly the most
Speaker 1: famous person ever born there. So you can't take a
Speaker 1: ship with everyone knowing about it. But you come to
Speaker 1: New York and no one gives a damn. You know,
Speaker 1: I mean I I in the ten years I lived
Speaker 1: in New York, ten years I lived in New York.
Speaker 1: I've stopped on the street once in the last four
Speaker 1: years that my kid has been at n y U,
Speaker 1: and I've coming to visit a lot more. I've been
Speaker 1: stopped far more times. We're interestingly, and all by younger people.
Speaker 1: There is this resurgence of interest in music. Weird, and
Speaker 1: it happened to me on the way here. Good music
Speaker 1: is always going to come back. Good music research. That
Speaker 1: is my theory. I well, my theory has always been
Speaker 1: that good music, if you put some thought and some
Speaker 1: depth into it, is the music that will last, you know,
Speaker 1: And this is where I have disagreements with people who
Speaker 1: are fans of an era. Right. So I get so
Speaker 1: many people that you know, of my age, not younger
Speaker 1: people that come up to me and say, you know,
Speaker 1: music nowadays is not as good as it was in
Speaker 1: the eighties, and I'm like, well, yeah it is. You
Speaker 1: just got to go find it. And you have this
Speaker 1: weird vision of nostalgia for that decade. But the music
Speaker 1: you're remembering is the good stuff that was just as much.
Speaker 1: That was just as much crap then as there is error,
Speaker 1: just as much Tears for Fears Hurt Smith. If you're
Speaker 1: enjoying this episode, don't keep it to yourself, Tell a friend,
Speaker 1: and be sure to follow us on the I Heart
Speaker 1: Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
Speaker 1: When we returned, Kurt Smith shares the circumstances that led
Speaker 1: to his breakup with bandmate Roland or Zeball. I'm Alec
Speaker 1: Baldwin and you're listening to Here's the Thing That's Kurt
Speaker 1: Smith singing Mad World from Tears for Fear three album.
Speaker 1: The Hurting Smith left Tears for years. He moved to
Speaker 1: the United States and pursued other musical interests, resulting in
Speaker 1: several solo albums and a new band called Mayfield. Kurt
Speaker 1: Smith and roland Or Zibow reunited in two thousand, a
Speaker 1: decade after their acrimonious split. What began as business communications
Speaker 1: through a fax machine eventually led to the pair finally
Speaker 1: meeting face to face. We end up talking on the phone.
Speaker 1: So when we see at the time he was in
Speaker 1: England and I was had just moved to l A.
Speaker 1: The fact came through about some like business thing because
Speaker 1: we own these buildings in England together, and I was
Speaker 1: kind of like tired of talking through lawyers and accountants
Speaker 1: and you're spending money on them every time you're using them,
Speaker 1: and I'm like, why don't we just get on the
Speaker 1: phone and talk about this. Because it was a complicated
Speaker 1: sort of situation, and so we did. You know, his
Speaker 1: recollection is, Oh my god, you I sounded very American
Speaker 1: to him, and because I lived, you know, in America
Speaker 1: ten years by then, and it's just felt like the
Speaker 1: so much water under the bridge. He had already had
Speaker 1: a family, I was just starting a family, and we'd
Speaker 1: grown up. We would just just as simple as that.
Speaker 1: We were. We were fully formed. We were fully formed
Speaker 1: adults who really didn't have those same grudges when we parted,
Speaker 1: we weren't fully formed adults. We didn't have that individual strength.
Speaker 1: Where did you see each other? Next? I went back
Speaker 1: because my family he lived in Bath, both my brothers
Speaker 1: still lived in Bath. So I was back. He was
Speaker 1: in Bath at that time. Then we still lives still
Speaker 1: as a house there. Yeah, oh my god. So I
Speaker 1: was back visiting my family and my mother who was
Speaker 1: still alive then, and my brothers and we went out
Speaker 1: to dinner and it seemed like quite normal and it
Speaker 1: was quite pleasant. And then he said, you know, you
Speaker 1: fancy sort of maybe trying to work together again, and
Speaker 1: so I I said, well, we can have a go.
Speaker 1: I mean, let's why not, you know, let's let's have
Speaker 1: a go and see if anything comes. And if nothing comes,
Speaker 1: no pressure, then it's we're not on the same wavelength anymore.
Speaker 1: And that's two. And we went in and we wrote
Speaker 1: this song called the Closest Thing to Heaven, which is
Speaker 1: offered an album called Everybody Loves a Happy Ending, which
Speaker 1: of course you know, is the funny title of the album,
Speaker 1: and it ended up being a kind of lighthearted album.
Speaker 1: It was more of a celebration of us getting back
Speaker 1: together again. It it didn't really have the depth of
Speaker 1: the first three albums and the new album the tipping point,
Speaker 1: I don't think. But it was still really good and
Speaker 1: we had a really good time doing it, and and
Speaker 1: it was nice to be working together again. So since
Speaker 1: then we've been touring and working together and it seems
Speaker 1: to be good. You know, we we know we need
Speaker 1: into our individual space. You know, when we're not working together,
Speaker 1: we don't see each other. We don't see each other socially.
Speaker 1: We know we're very different people, but we also know
Speaker 1: now that that's our strength. But also I'm always wondering,
Speaker 1: you know, I read this is only from what I
Speaker 1: read that some of the tension was because of his perfectionism.
Speaker 1: Was the world they keep using his perfectionism? Yeah, that
Speaker 1: was definitely the tension during Seeds of Love. Yeah, that
Speaker 1: he was getting into everything had be precise and exact
Speaker 1: and down to like when we had man who catch
Speaker 1: a come in and play drums on the song called
Speaker 1: Batman song, and Man who is a wonderful drummer, but
Speaker 1: his timing is not exact. You know, a lot of
Speaker 1: the time, which I personally like. I I like the
Speaker 1: kind of roughness. But Roland was into grids. He was
Speaker 1: into looking at the fair Light, which was the computer
Speaker 1: we were using at the time. So there was a
Speaker 1: man who's take on man on Batman song is is
Speaker 1: twenty takes edited together, so they were exactly in time.
Speaker 1: And that kind of thing drove me up. But at
Speaker 1: the same time, did you find yourself, like, years later
Speaker 1: after you split up with him, you were in a
Speaker 1: room with other people and you're sitting there going God,
Speaker 1: there's a part of me that really misses Rowland's perfections.
Speaker 1: Were their benefits to it as well his approach, Yeah,
Speaker 1: But weirdly the benefits are not, you know, because he's
Speaker 1: got over to a certain degree that neatness, and you
Speaker 1: know he does Yeah, he's now got into more feel stuff.
Speaker 1: I mean, he's he's moved more towards me on that.
Speaker 1: I think what I missed was Roland has this which
Speaker 1: can be incredibly useful and frustrating and annoying, all of
Speaker 1: these things and thoroughly enjoyable lack of a filter. And
Speaker 1: that's kind of what I missed. Ship just comes out
Speaker 1: of him and sometimes it's bad, but now and again
Speaker 1: it's just like whoa where did that come from? And
Speaker 1: it's wonderful. I don't have that freedom. I'm I am
Speaker 1: the introvert. I don't you know, I I haven't. I
Speaker 1: have many filters, So how it it's interesting how it works,
Speaker 1: and we've come to appreciate each other far more, and
Speaker 1: certainly during the tipping point, we definitely got to a
Speaker 1: point where we really appreciated what we both brought to
Speaker 1: the party. And I think this is the first time
Speaker 1: that's happened since the hurting to me, and I think
Speaker 1: Roland weirdly, you know, we were awarded this thing called
Speaker 1: the Ivan Novello Award, which is a songwriting award in
Speaker 1: England for our body of work. It's it's kind of
Speaker 1: like the musical Oscars, kind of in England. And he,
Speaker 1: you know, he gave his old speech because he tends
Speaker 1: to be enjoy those kind of things, and he had
Speaker 1: a few drinks. He described me as the break to
Speaker 1: his accelerator. And I think that's probably the best description
Speaker 1: I've I've heard of our relationship together. Now I see
Speaker 1: that you acted, How did you feel? How did you like? Oh?
Speaker 1: I loved it. It was fun, but I was playing myself,
Speaker 1: you know. And I've done it like four was it
Speaker 1: for yourself? Yeah? Yeah, in this some TV show called
Speaker 1: Psych and and and the movies as well. And actually,
Speaker 1: and it's a fan, I mean James Rode Rodriguez, who's
Speaker 1: who's also a Tish alumni. He's a huge fan. And um,
Speaker 1: they did on one the first one I went on. Um,
Speaker 1: I redid their theme tune for the second one, and
Speaker 1: then the other ones were just kind of acting basically.
Speaker 1: But I always was playing myself. So I mean, I
Speaker 1: guess you call it acting because they're not the words
Speaker 1: I would necessarily say. Even though I did change something,
Speaker 1: I spent my life saying things other people have exhaust Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean, and and there are times I I said
Speaker 1: to them like, do you mind if I change it
Speaker 1: a little bit, because it just that there's no way
Speaker 1: I would say that in your mouth. Yeah. Now, what
Speaker 1: about teaching? Have you ever taught My guest taught it
Speaker 1: at vocals um No, not music business um really more
Speaker 1: than anything or young artists, So I guess taught at
Speaker 1: n YU when I lived in wasn't there yet? My
Speaker 1: actually my connection with them, why you goes back a
Speaker 1: ways because I also opened because I was on the
Speaker 1: charity board, which is actually weirdly how me and Francis
Speaker 1: had our second date because I started the charity in America,
Speaker 1: the Nord of Robbins Music Therapy Center that's at n
Speaker 1: y U. I opened that because I was part of,
Speaker 1: you know, raising the funds to build it that program
Speaker 1: at NYU. What would you say, you guys, the emphasis
Speaker 1: on your new album, but what kind of an album
Speaker 1: did you want? Did you sit down and map out
Speaker 1: the texture of that? And then we did eventually again
Speaker 1: the same thing. I mean, it took us forever because
Speaker 1: we spent seven years working on this record from start
Speaker 1: to finish. But but initially it was at the behest
Speaker 1: of sort of our management and record company at the
Speaker 1: time what they wanted us to all these young producers
Speaker 1: and songwriters and hopefully, you know, get us to make
Speaker 1: a modern record. And I have no idea what that means. Still,
Speaker 1: don't your voice you're such I mean, I hope you
Speaker 1: never stop singing because you have such a beautiful voice
Speaker 1: and such a signature voice. How was that song written?
Speaker 1: When you write a song that just resonates now, I
Speaker 1: mean everybody wants to all the what's an interesting one
Speaker 1: because it was an afterthought. Effectively, when you get sort
Speaker 1: of near the end of a project, you then start
Speaker 1: looking at what you're missing, because we always like an
Speaker 1: album to have a sort of not necessarily a story.
Speaker 1: I mean, it becomes a story bit it's a journey,
Speaker 1: so it needs these ups and downs, and sometimes it
Speaker 1: needs something quiet and deep, and sometimes you're missing that lighthearted,
Speaker 1: kind of bouncy, poppier kind of song. I think Boys
Speaker 1: of Summer had come out, you know, that's the kind
Speaker 1: of like driving down a freeway in the US, a
Speaker 1: kind of song that bounces along and you can sing
Speaker 1: along to it, even though the lyrics ended up being
Speaker 1: a lot deeper than that. So there's this sort of
Speaker 1: balance of something that you may not listen intently to
Speaker 1: the lyrics, but it's sort of is a little air
Speaker 1: warm already, and then you kind of go, oh, that
Speaker 1: song is heavier than I thought it was. Because it's
Speaker 1: a bouncy pop song. We had this shuffle beat that
Speaker 1: don't do, Don't do, Don't do, don't We're like, yeah,
Speaker 1: that's the kind of thing we're missing. So we started
Speaker 1: working on this shuffle beat, and that's where everybody came
Speaker 1: from and from start to finish. And the album took
Speaker 1: us two years to make, but that one song two weeks.
Speaker 1: I mean, I look at those pictures of those albums.
Speaker 1: You you mean you look like you look like an
Speaker 1: altar boy, really like such a sweet little looking a
Speaker 1: little boy, a little boy. You were a little boy.
Speaker 1: When you look at those albums, you see that, kid,
Speaker 1: what do you think? What? The fact that I've survived
Speaker 1: it is a miracle in and of itself, and the
Speaker 1: fact that we're still doing and still enjoying it, and
Speaker 1: the fact that you know, last year when we toured,
Speaker 1: was our most successful tour ever in our career, and
Speaker 1: it's it's kind of crazy. You're gonna keep at it
Speaker 1: for a little while. Maybe without question. The two of
Speaker 1: us now the closest we've been since we first started
Speaker 1: Tears for Fears as such, since we were like a teen.
Speaker 1: We're old enough and wise enough to appreciate what we
Speaker 1: both bring to the party, and and that's a great
Speaker 1: position to be in my thanks to Tears for Fears,
Speaker 1: Kurt Smith, I'll leave you with a little bit more
Speaker 1: of everybody wants to rule the world from Songs from
Speaker 1: the Big Chair. I'm Alec Baldwin. Here's the thing, is
Speaker 1: brought to you by my Heart Radio. Say that you
Speaker 1: have never, never did why while it was when never?
Speaker 1: That's my friend. When body sh a