WEBVTT - Curt Smith on TEARS FOR FEARS and their Enduring Sound 0:00:00.360 --> 0:00:03.640 I'm Alec Baldwin and you're listening to Here's the Thing 0:00:04.200 --> 0:00:20.640 from My Heart Radio. When there are stars that are 0:00:20.720 --> 0:00:24.680 flashes in the palm that burn fast and bright, and 0:00:24.760 --> 0:00:28.520 then there are those artists that endure. On the list 0:00:28.600 --> 0:00:32.400 of musical acts that continue to sell out their concerts 0:00:32.720 --> 0:00:36.680 pre and post COVID, you will find names like Paul McCartney, 0:00:36.960 --> 0:00:42.159 The Rolling Stones, Judy Collins, Lindsey Buckingham and my guests Today. 0:00:42.600 --> 0:00:47.160 One half of the eighties powerhouse Tears for Fears Kurt Smith, 0:00:54.560 --> 0:00:57.280 This is Advice for the young at Heart from the 0:00:58.360 --> 0:01:02.440 nine album The Seeds of Love. By the mid nineteen eighties, 0:01:02.840 --> 0:01:05.920 Tears for Fears had joined a dense pack of new 0:01:05.959 --> 0:01:10.840 wave artists that included Simple Minds, Crowded House and Simply Read, 0:01:11.000 --> 0:01:14.920 and releasing some of the most popular music of the day. 0:01:15.000 --> 0:01:19.200 The duo would eventually reach the stratospheres of stardom, selling 0:01:19.240 --> 0:01:24.600 over thirty million albums worldwide. Kurt Smith first met bandmate 0:01:24.760 --> 0:01:29.000 Roland Orzebal as a teenager in Bath, England, and put 0:01:29.000 --> 0:01:33.360 out their first album, The Hurting Three. They were still 0:01:33.400 --> 0:01:37.560 booking small clubs when they released their second album, Songs 0:01:37.560 --> 0:01:42.320 from the Big Chair. By the time the tour ended, however, 0:01:42.640 --> 0:01:46.480 they had pole vaulted into stadiums. I would guess the 0:01:46.480 --> 0:01:48.960 after recording itself took a year, but it was two 0:01:49.040 --> 0:01:51.920 years between The Hurting being released on Songs with the 0:01:51.920 --> 0:01:54.840 Big Chair, which which then was a long time. You know. 0:01:54.840 --> 0:01:59.720 Obviously the Hurting it had had huge success outside of America. 0:01:59.760 --> 0:02:03.120 It was big in New York and l A. So 0:02:03.120 --> 0:02:04.880 Songs from the Big Chair. I don't want to do 0:02:05.000 --> 0:02:06.400 all on that too much, but you know, you have 0:02:06.440 --> 0:02:09.560 the number one album in the US. Quite a different 0:02:09.600 --> 0:02:12.160 situation to have the number one album the biggest market 0:02:12.160 --> 0:02:14.760 of them all. That's that's not the most sophisticated market, 0:02:14.760 --> 0:02:17.040 but it's the biggest market. It was a little crazy, 0:02:17.160 --> 0:02:19.520 I mean, you know, like I said, were because touring 0:02:19.560 --> 0:02:21.880 here was was weird after Songs in the Big Chair 0:02:21.919 --> 0:02:25.480 because before we played our first ever show in the US, 0:02:25.600 --> 0:02:28.080 we never played when we released The Hurting. There was 0:02:28.120 --> 0:02:30.240 no real market, like we could have played in New 0:02:30.320 --> 0:02:31.840 York and l A. But that was kind of it 0:02:32.000 --> 0:02:34.760 and that would be too expensive just for those shows. 0:02:35.080 --> 0:02:36.800 So the first time I ever played in America was 0:02:36.840 --> 0:02:40.200 after Songs on the Big Chair and our first show 0:02:40.320 --> 0:02:44.240 was a little club in Hartford, Connecticut, and by the 0:02:44.280 --> 0:02:46.079 time we got there, Everybody Wants To All the World 0:02:46.160 --> 0:02:49.200 was number one. So there was the sweatiest show I've 0:02:49.200 --> 0:02:52.560 ever played. I think it was ridiculous. But then slowly 0:02:52.600 --> 0:02:55.240 as we got on, as they managed to then make 0:02:55.320 --> 0:02:58.400 the venues bigger and bigger, they started changing the venues 0:02:58.440 --> 0:03:01.560 because everything had taken off, and we went across America, 0:03:01.600 --> 0:03:02.960 and by the time we got to l A, we 0:03:02.960 --> 0:03:06.359 were playing to you know, twenty thousand people. But initially 0:03:06.680 --> 0:03:10.000 you found the Ronnie Scotts of Hartford Cannemy exactly. It 0:03:10.040 --> 0:03:13.440 was interesting, but but also a little I think soul 0:03:13.480 --> 0:03:16.320 destroying is a harsh word, but it was. It became 0:03:16.400 --> 0:03:18.720 hard work and I want to get to I want 0:03:18.760 --> 0:03:22.280 to get to the same you know, the wind under 0:03:22.280 --> 0:03:24.440 your wings and you really take off, you know, number 0:03:24.480 --> 0:03:26.480 one album. The music was coming out and every I 0:03:26.520 --> 0:03:28.880 mean that was so ubiquitous, and so I'm the present 0:03:29.440 --> 0:03:31.880 songs from the Big Chair was like they were applying 0:03:31.880 --> 0:03:34.800 it to like face cream on the radio. Yeah. No, 0:03:35.080 --> 0:03:38.320 and and we you know, because of the way reccompanies 0:03:38.320 --> 0:03:39.920 were and because of at that point in time, yeah, 0:03:39.920 --> 0:03:42.960 obviously there was no streaming, so the radio radio stations 0:03:43.000 --> 0:03:45.840 were the important things. So you know, we were up 0:03:45.880 --> 0:03:48.720 doing the morning drive shows, and we were doing interviews 0:03:48.760 --> 0:03:52.280 all day long, and then sound check and then shaking 0:03:52.480 --> 0:03:56.040 hands and kissing babies from local people, you know, local 0:03:56.720 --> 0:03:59.400 radio stations and things before the show, meets, meet and 0:03:59.400 --> 0:04:02.120 greets after of the show, and it became work. I 0:04:02.120 --> 0:04:06.040 mean it was really hard work. And myself and rolland 0:04:06.080 --> 0:04:08.560 and not renowned for being the hardest of workers. We 0:04:08.680 --> 0:04:13.400 like to take our time and we really didn't enjoy 0:04:13.440 --> 0:04:16.159 it that much. And what's sad when that happens is 0:04:16.920 --> 0:04:19.039 you know, you you know, because when you get home, 0:04:19.160 --> 0:04:21.320 your your friends say, isn't this wonderful? You traveled the 0:04:21.360 --> 0:04:24.280 world and you you went to all these places, and 0:04:24.320 --> 0:04:26.480 then you have to tell them, yeah, but I didn't 0:04:26.520 --> 0:04:28.800 get to see any of them. I was just working 0:04:28.920 --> 0:04:30.719 the whole time. I didn't get to visit any So 0:04:30.760 --> 0:04:32.800 people say that to me about the movie business, they say, 0:04:32.839 --> 0:04:35.640 you know, you travel all over the world and you 0:04:35.680 --> 0:04:38.880 see I go, No, we go to work at dark 0:04:38.880 --> 0:04:40.560 in the morning, we come home it's dark at night, 0:04:40.880 --> 0:04:43.560 and if the restaurant of the hotel is closed, then 0:04:43.600 --> 0:04:46.480 I have a microwave burrito out of the vending machine 0:04:46.520 --> 0:04:50.080 exactly said, it's really not traveling with my own chef. 0:04:50.720 --> 0:04:53.600 So Roland and you meet when you're young, I mean 0:04:53.600 --> 0:04:55.039 when you're very young. And I want to just clear 0:04:55.120 --> 0:04:57.919 up one thing for people Tears for Fears. Is it 0:04:58.000 --> 0:05:00.760 more like Simon and Garth uncle and really Dan where 0:05:00.760 --> 0:05:03.760 it's two primary players and everybody else's sessions, or you 0:05:03.839 --> 0:05:06.040 had full time members of the band, you know, everyone 0:05:06.040 --> 0:05:09.440 else session musicians. I mean people thought that, certainly on 0:05:09.480 --> 0:05:10.960 songs of the Big Chair, that there was a band 0:05:10.960 --> 0:05:13.880 because we actually took a picture as a band, because Ian, 0:05:14.040 --> 0:05:17.880 our keyboard player who also co produced, works a lot 0:05:17.920 --> 0:05:20.320 on the album with us, and many a liars at 0:05:20.360 --> 0:05:22.320 that point in time was had been our drummer on 0:05:22.320 --> 0:05:24.600 the Hurting and songs in the Big Chair. I mean, 0:05:24.800 --> 0:05:28.039 I guess what happens is you can tell what who 0:05:28.080 --> 0:05:30.159 the band are by who is signed to the record label. 0:05:30.400 --> 0:05:32.640 The only people signed to the record label all through 0:05:32.680 --> 0:05:35.080 our career is me in Rowland, and and so then 0:05:35.120 --> 0:05:36.960 we get to pick and choose who we worked with. 0:05:37.080 --> 0:05:39.119 But we've worked with Manny any and from the Hurting 0:05:39.160 --> 0:05:41.040 through songs from the Big Chair, and we felt they 0:05:41.080 --> 0:05:43.839 were kind of band members. But before we go back 0:05:43.880 --> 0:05:46.279 to the origins, who are you and Roland? I just 0:05:46.400 --> 0:05:48.400 what what you're triggering for me now? Was this idea 0:05:48.440 --> 0:05:50.520 that was there a time when you're in a studio 0:05:50.600 --> 0:05:53.479 recording any of your albums, after you really take off, 0:05:53.560 --> 0:05:55.560 were you're there and across the room with somebody going, 0:05:55.640 --> 0:05:59.040 I can't believe I'm have this person playing sessions with 0:05:59.080 --> 0:06:01.680 my band, like the do the quality of everything just 0:06:01.720 --> 0:06:04.120 go up? Well, yeah, definitely, and everybody want to play 0:06:04.160 --> 0:06:06.760 with you eventually, I mean after songs of the Big Chair, certainly, 0:06:06.839 --> 0:06:08.760 I'm in on Seeds of Love after you know, which 0:06:08.760 --> 0:06:10.960 is our third album. Um, we got to work with 0:06:11.000 --> 0:06:12.719 man who catch A on drums. We got to work 0:06:12.760 --> 0:06:16.119 with Phil Collins on drums. You know that there were Yeah, 0:06:16.160 --> 0:06:18.360 there were people that you know, when when you ask, 0:06:18.440 --> 0:06:20.400 people will come in and play with you, you know. 0:06:20.600 --> 0:06:23.760 So we did. Although most of the stuff we tend 0:06:23.839 --> 0:06:26.080 to do ourselves. And I don't know if that's by 0:06:26.160 --> 0:06:30.400 design or just that that's how we work sometimes that 0:06:30.400 --> 0:06:33.440 that normally happens when we hear a specific person, So 0:06:33.600 --> 0:06:36.520 say with Phil Collins playing on Woman in Chains, we 0:06:36.560 --> 0:06:39.240 heard Phil Collins. I mean, we heard there's a track 0:06:39.279 --> 0:06:42.560 on Petergether's third album called No Self Control that has 0:06:42.600 --> 0:06:45.080 this drum fill in, and that's what we heard on 0:06:45.120 --> 0:06:48.119 Women in Chains. We heard these tom fills that Phil 0:06:48.160 --> 0:06:51.719 Collins with the exact same sound, with the exact same sound. 0:06:51.800 --> 0:06:53.920 We were basically everyone's asking Phil to come and play 0:06:53.920 --> 0:06:58.400 the same films. Just do that, just that exactly, And 0:06:58.400 --> 0:07:01.640 and so I was doing. I performed on this sort 0:07:01.680 --> 0:07:04.719 of all star concert at Wembley Stadium for Nelson Mandela's 0:07:04.760 --> 0:07:08.400 birthday when Nelson Mandela was still in jail and Phil 0:07:08.480 --> 0:07:10.240 was the drummer, and I came on and sang, and 0:07:10.320 --> 0:07:11.960 so then I asked him, I said, would you would 0:07:11.960 --> 0:07:14.080 you come and drum on this one song that I 0:07:14.160 --> 0:07:17.120 we just hear you drumming on And he said, yeah, 0:07:17.120 --> 0:07:19.360 I'd love to, and and so I said we should 0:07:19.400 --> 0:07:21.000 I book a few days in the studio. He's like, 0:07:21.040 --> 0:07:23.240 well one, now, I'd come in around one. I'm I'm 0:07:23.320 --> 0:07:25.600 sure I'll be home by tea time, you know, and 0:07:25.640 --> 0:07:28.240 so and he was. But also we had a mutual friend, 0:07:28.280 --> 0:07:31.520 Hugh Padgum, who's a producer who produced Phil's albums and 0:07:31.560 --> 0:07:33.640 the Peter Gabriel album, and so I got Hu to 0:07:33.680 --> 0:07:36.400 come in and get the drum sound before Phil arrived, 0:07:36.800 --> 0:07:38.760 and I think Phil did it in like two takes 0:07:38.760 --> 0:07:42.679 and then went home. So where do you meet? Um? 0:07:42.760 --> 0:07:45.480 We met in my hometown of Bath. He had just 0:07:45.680 --> 0:07:47.920 moved to Bath. He grew up in a place called 0:07:47.920 --> 0:07:50.560 Portsmouth on the south coast of England. And we had 0:07:50.600 --> 0:07:52.640 this mutual friend who went to school with him. He 0:07:52.680 --> 0:07:54.600 was at a different school than me and Bath, but 0:07:54.760 --> 0:07:58.520 the mutual friend lived near me and so I knew him, 0:07:58.520 --> 0:08:01.920 and he was a musician of ace player actually, and 0:08:02.320 --> 0:08:04.320 we met and we kind of hit it off, even 0:08:04.360 --> 0:08:08.200 though we really were kind of polar opposites. But I 0:08:08.200 --> 0:08:09.920 think when you were playing one at the time, I 0:08:10.280 --> 0:08:13.480 wasn't playing anything at the time. I was singing. I mean, 0:08:13.480 --> 0:08:15.240 I've been in a choir since I was four, and 0:08:15.280 --> 0:08:18.520 I loved singing. It's interesting if if I think back 0:08:18.520 --> 0:08:20.400 on it, because I used to sing all the time 0:08:20.440 --> 0:08:22.480 around when since the age of like three or four, 0:08:22.840 --> 0:08:25.400 I would sing more than I would talk. Um, I 0:08:25.440 --> 0:08:27.360 would sing along to things on the radio. I would 0:08:27.360 --> 0:08:30.160 just sing things. And my mother was just got tired 0:08:30.160 --> 0:08:32.319 of it and she and she's like, get out of 0:08:32.360 --> 0:08:34.680 the house and sing. Go go go join the choir. 0:08:34.720 --> 0:08:36.520 If that you love singing, that must go join a 0:08:36.600 --> 0:08:38.520 quiet And when you were in public singing, when when 0:08:38.559 --> 0:08:41.000 this shy, you seem shy. Did you sing more than 0:08:41.000 --> 0:08:44.160 your talk because you were shy? Maybe I think that 0:08:44.200 --> 0:08:46.560 there's a part of it. And I was a very 0:08:46.559 --> 0:08:49.160 shy kid and and still am a shy. I wouldn't 0:08:49.200 --> 0:08:51.680 say shy. I'm more of an introvert than shy. I 0:08:51.720 --> 0:08:54.240 guess what's interesting is that's what I sense. I'm not 0:08:54.360 --> 0:08:56.600 saying this to be kind. What I sense is you 0:08:56.679 --> 0:08:59.760 are unlike many people where they can go and s 0:09:00.080 --> 0:09:03.040 and gears and they can sing certain ways. But then 0:09:03.080 --> 0:09:06.160 there were those people who can sing and the singing 0:09:06.360 --> 0:09:10.280 is has a powerful emotional undercurrent that at the same 0:09:10.320 --> 0:09:12.720 time they sit on it, they don't go too far. Yeah, 0:09:12.760 --> 0:09:15.280 I mean, it's it's it's I find it an easier 0:09:15.360 --> 0:09:19.200 medium to communicate with than talking to people. I don't 0:09:19.280 --> 0:09:21.960 know that you know, even though this is quite comfortable, 0:09:22.240 --> 0:09:24.640 sometimes it can be hard, you know, since you know 0:09:24.720 --> 0:09:26.920 it can be difficult, and you know I'm a homebody, 0:09:27.040 --> 0:09:29.840 I'm I would say, I'm kind of an introvert. I'm 0:09:29.920 --> 0:09:32.480 comfortable with a small group of friends. Put me in 0:09:32.520 --> 0:09:34.679 a big group that I don't know anyone, I am 0:09:34.720 --> 0:09:38.000 completely uncomfortable. I'm the guy standing out in the corner. 0:09:39.280 --> 0:09:43.880 I don't have stage right digitally well, people eventually, what 0:09:43.880 --> 0:09:46.840 what's what's interesting is and and and I see this 0:09:46.920 --> 0:09:49.280 happen with my daughter as well, who as she was 0:09:49.320 --> 0:09:51.480 growing up and certainly in her teen years through to 0:09:51.679 --> 0:09:54.760 moving to New York, had major anxiety issues. And what 0:09:54.880 --> 0:09:57.559 happens is singing is one thing I know I can do, 0:09:57.880 --> 0:10:01.920 and that my stage fright comes forehand as soon as 0:10:02.160 --> 0:10:05.640 my mouth and starts singing. I'm comfortable, I'm fine, you 0:10:05.679 --> 0:10:07.560 know what you're doing. Yeah, And I feel like I belong. 0:10:08.080 --> 0:10:11.400 But the reason I mentioned that about the emotional combined 0:10:11.720 --> 0:10:13.960 with the with the I can see your hand on 0:10:14.040 --> 0:10:17.040 a knob, and there's just the right amount of emotion 0:10:17.120 --> 0:10:19.160 like that, like you, like I'll give you a kind 0:10:19.160 --> 0:10:22.959 of what's going to seem like an incongruous reference, but 0:10:23.000 --> 0:10:26.480 like I would listen to Dylan, and Dylan would sing 0:10:26.520 --> 0:10:29.679 a song like an anthem, like and when he sings Hurricane, 0:10:29.960 --> 0:10:33.160 he sits on that indignation and only let's it belch 0:10:33.240 --> 0:10:37.280 out and when you sing this is wonderful, beautiful emotion. 0:10:37.360 --> 0:10:43.559 But you don't. I leave that to my partner. Roland 0:10:43.640 --> 0:10:46.120 is he Roland is the one that you have to 0:10:46.160 --> 0:10:51.199 try and temper down slightly. He's he's like he's jazz hands, 0:10:51.320 --> 0:10:54.360 you know, He's like, I'm out there and he'll be 0:10:54.600 --> 0:10:58.640 you know, performing, I mean he he performs. My voice 0:10:59.080 --> 0:11:01.679 has more of a tone of melancholy. I guess to 0:11:01.840 --> 0:11:04.040 it to a certain degree and on the right amount 0:11:04.080 --> 0:11:06.680 of it. Yeah, And I'm and I'm the quieter singer, 0:11:06.920 --> 0:11:09.280 you know. So basically, you know, it's it's you know, 0:11:09.920 --> 0:11:11.640 We've been asked a lot of times, you know, how 0:11:11.800 --> 0:11:13.559 how do you because it's a you know, we have 0:11:13.600 --> 0:11:15.800 a weird setup. We have two lead singers, which which 0:11:15.880 --> 0:11:19.000 is very rare, and you know, I get asked, how 0:11:19.040 --> 0:11:21.040 do you pick the songs? And it's like to us, 0:11:21.320 --> 0:11:24.760 it's becomes very obvious. You know, if something demands vocal 0:11:24.800 --> 0:11:28.880 acrobatics and power and in your face, that's going to 0:11:28.960 --> 0:11:32.199 be Roland. Is something requires a certain touch of melancholy 0:11:32.280 --> 0:11:35.680 or slightly undersung or you really want to kind of listen, 0:11:36.240 --> 0:11:39.000 that would be me so the song has become very obvious. 0:11:39.000 --> 0:11:42.800 There's not normally, there's no songs we've ever done. I 0:11:42.800 --> 0:11:45.280 don't think where we've both gone in and both think 0:11:45.360 --> 0:11:49.520 we should do it. We it becomes obvious, you know what, 0:11:49.720 --> 0:11:52.120 you can compete because we're two lead singers, so there's 0:11:52.160 --> 0:11:55.120 ego involved. But when we both try and sing a song, 0:11:55.520 --> 0:11:58.200 it's clear which one should be singing it. It becomes 0:11:58.280 --> 0:12:03.000 very clear. So we're so between your choral career and 0:12:03.040 --> 0:12:06.920 your meeting Roland, when did you first get the sense? 0:12:06.920 --> 0:12:09.360 I always wonder, you know, people say to me, you know, 0:12:09.520 --> 0:12:11.199 did you think you could act? And I say, oh 0:12:11.200 --> 0:12:14.160 god no. But my point is is that was your 0:12:14.160 --> 0:12:17.040 a point in between choral career and professional you know, 0:12:17.360 --> 0:12:20.640 beginnings with Roland, when you said yourself, I really can 0:12:20.679 --> 0:12:22.120 do this. I mean, I really think I can make 0:12:22.360 --> 0:12:24.520 a go at this. I think once myself and Roland 0:12:24.520 --> 0:12:26.800 started playing together, I mean, what happened he listened to me? 0:12:27.360 --> 0:12:30.160 So the start of our musical career together, you know, 0:12:30.200 --> 0:12:32.199 we met and we sort of became friends. Like I said, 0:12:32.240 --> 0:12:34.680 we were sort of polar opposite. Roland was kind of 0:12:34.720 --> 0:12:37.960 this sort of intellect to a certain degree, but he 0:12:38.040 --> 0:12:40.640 was a you know, straight a student, you know, graded 0:12:40.720 --> 0:12:43.800 everything at school, and by this point in my life 0:12:44.080 --> 0:12:46.800 I had gone the other way. I was the dropout, 0:12:47.000 --> 0:12:50.560 skyped off school, God in trouble, God in fights. I 0:12:50.679 --> 0:12:53.080 used to be an a student before, but but I 0:12:53.080 --> 0:12:54.679 didn't get enough attention to you do that wasn't going 0:12:54.679 --> 0:12:56.199 to help your rock and roll career. So no, I 0:12:56.240 --> 0:12:59.679 didn't get any attention from my parents. And so you know, 0:12:59.840 --> 0:13:02.040 I was singing along in my room role and was 0:13:02.080 --> 0:13:04.560 in the room to a track called the Last Days 0:13:04.559 --> 0:13:06.640 and made by Blois To. I was a big blois 0:13:06.640 --> 0:13:08.400 To cult fan at that point in time because they 0:13:08.400 --> 0:13:11.200 were bizarre for a rock band. And he wasn't comfortable 0:13:11.200 --> 0:13:13.800 being a lead singer. He was a guitar player and 0:13:13.840 --> 0:13:16.040 he he didn't think he could be a lead singer. 0:13:16.120 --> 0:13:18.240 He just wasn't did you pick up the bass guitar 0:13:18.760 --> 0:13:20.800 when we needed a bass player. So this is how 0:13:20.840 --> 0:13:23.400 we started. When we were fourteen our first band, I 0:13:23.480 --> 0:13:25.599 was the lead singer, That's what I was. Roland just 0:13:25.640 --> 0:13:28.800 played guitar and did backing vocals. And then as our 0:13:28.840 --> 0:13:32.280 career progressed, he started feeling more comfortable with lead vocals 0:13:32.280 --> 0:13:34.680 then and we realized we had two very different voices, 0:13:34.920 --> 0:13:37.559 so we gave it us an extra sort of width 0:13:37.679 --> 0:13:40.200 and breadth of music we could use. And then so 0:13:40.240 --> 0:13:42.840 we played fourteen from fourteen in the sort of this 0:13:43.160 --> 0:13:47.520 kid's band school band, and then it's around sixteen. That 0:13:47.600 --> 0:13:49.319 lasted about a year, year and a half, and then 0:13:49.360 --> 0:13:53.080 we we stopped playing together. That band fell apart and 0:13:53.960 --> 0:13:57.040 he formed another band called Graduate. I think this is 0:13:57.080 --> 0:14:00.240 when I was around sixteen, and they fired the bass 0:14:00.240 --> 0:14:03.400 player because they hated him. And so Roland came to 0:14:03.440 --> 0:14:05.360 my house and he's like, do you think you can 0:14:05.400 --> 0:14:08.920 play bass? I'm like, you want to teach me? Then? Yeah, 0:14:09.080 --> 0:14:12.080 can you play it by tomorrow? Yeah? Well basically well 0:14:12.320 --> 0:14:14.719 next week. It was basically next week. He said, I'll 0:14:14.760 --> 0:14:18.120 teach you all the parts, so you'll go yeah, and um. 0:14:18.160 --> 0:14:20.080 I went into the audition and I used it because 0:14:20.240 --> 0:14:22.040 you know, I knew all the parts and it was fine, 0:14:22.120 --> 0:14:24.400 and it seemed I was a natural at it, you know, 0:14:24.400 --> 0:14:26.680 because drums and bass are really that's the rhythm section, 0:14:26.720 --> 0:14:29.520 you know, that's the backbone of a band. And all 0:14:29.560 --> 0:14:32.880 the great bands have a good looking bass player who 0:14:32.960 --> 0:14:35.720 can sing. Paul Paul Paul well so you're Paul. Now 0:14:36.160 --> 0:14:38.520 you're the good looking bass player who can sing exactly 0:14:38.560 --> 0:14:40.160 what Paul. Paul was kind of a hero of a 0:14:40.480 --> 0:14:43.560 Phill lineup was my other hero from Thin Lizzy, and 0:14:43.680 --> 0:14:46.240 he was the bass player who sang so yeah between 0:14:46.240 --> 0:14:48.400 Paul McCartney and Phil Line. And I'm like, yeah, yeah, 0:14:48.440 --> 0:14:50.200 I can, I can do this. I see myself in 0:14:50.240 --> 0:14:53.320 that pantheon exactly. And so I learned to play bass 0:14:53.320 --> 0:14:56.400 at sixteen and have continued since then and have become 0:14:56.560 --> 0:15:03.160 you know now now I've I've become competent musician. Kurt Smith. 0:15:03.840 --> 0:15:08.360 If you love conversations with contemplative rockers from the nineteen eighties, 0:15:08.800 --> 0:15:11.440 be sure to check out my episode with ari E 0:15:11.640 --> 0:15:16.040 Ms Michael Stipe in a band dynamic, everyone's got an idea, 0:15:16.120 --> 0:15:18.560 in an opinion, and what happened, what happens when it 0:15:18.600 --> 0:15:22.480 all comes together? Is this this beautiful compromise where one 0:15:22.520 --> 0:15:25.560 person kind of oversees one part, another overseas another part. 0:15:25.840 --> 0:15:29.560 Somehow it all works, and that chemistry served us pretty 0:15:29.600 --> 0:15:32.480 well for most of her career. But but it was, 0:15:32.920 --> 0:15:36.440 you know, it was at times very very difficult. Here 0:15:36.480 --> 0:15:40.080 the rest of my conversation with Michael Stipe that Here's 0:15:40.120 --> 0:15:44.200 the Thing dot Org. After the break, Kurt Smith shares 0:15:44.320 --> 0:15:46.880 what was going on in his head when he left 0:15:46.960 --> 0:15:58.080 Tears for Fears at the height of their fame. I'm 0:15:58.120 --> 0:16:01.000 Alec Baldwin and you were listening to Hear's the Thing. 0:16:05.800 --> 0:16:11.280 Peter Jackson's recent Beatles documentary Get Back vividly demonstrates how 0:16:11.320 --> 0:16:14.720 even the most successful acts are not without their tensions. 0:16:15.200 --> 0:16:18.680 I like the Beatles, many artists, including Simon and Garf, 0:16:18.760 --> 0:16:22.040 Uncle Journey, and The Beach Boys, just to name a few, 0:16:22.240 --> 0:16:25.800 have all experienced the growing pains that come with enormous 0:16:25.800 --> 0:16:30.240 commercial success. Tears for Fears ultimately succumbed to that same 0:16:30.480 --> 0:16:53.400 musical fate. That's Kurt Smith's bandmate Roland oors a Ball, 0:16:53.560 --> 0:16:57.640 singing head over heels from Tears for Fear's seminal album 0:16:57.720 --> 0:17:01.840 Songs from the Big Chair. After three albums and tens 0:17:01.880 --> 0:17:05.480 of millions in sales, Kurt Smith and Roland or Zibal's 0:17:05.520 --> 0:17:10.879 creative partnership was severed in Although Orzibal would go on 0:17:11.000 --> 0:17:15.119 to release two additional albums under the name Tears for Fears, 0:17:15.160 --> 0:17:18.440 it would be ten years before the duo would reunite 0:17:18.680 --> 0:17:22.600 to release new work together, including this year's album The 0:17:22.640 --> 0:17:26.960 Tipping Point. Kurt Smith shared how Tears for Fears at 0:17:26.960 --> 0:17:30.959 its essence was a sound forged by two uniquely different 0:17:31.160 --> 0:17:34.439 creative minds. Well, we had the band Graduate and and 0:17:34.560 --> 0:17:37.639 that band when we were eighteen to wait for Roland 0:17:37.720 --> 0:17:40.920 to turn eighteen, signed a record deal with the record 0:17:41.000 --> 0:17:45.160 label in England. Um, but we we never felt comfortable 0:17:45.200 --> 0:17:47.240 in that band. It was like a kind of sixties 0:17:47.720 --> 0:17:52.800 graduate Yeah, sixties kind of retrosh lighthearted pop song covers. 0:17:55.440 --> 0:17:58.200 He was doing most of the writing Roland, and still 0:17:58.280 --> 0:18:02.240 to this day it's Roland. But I would say then me, 0:18:02.920 --> 0:18:05.159 But it's it's hard to really sort of quantify the 0:18:05.240 --> 0:18:09.119 writing thing because even when Roland's writing a lot of 0:18:09.119 --> 0:18:11.760 the time, and certainly in early in our career, during 0:18:11.800 --> 0:18:15.159 the hurting especially, I'd always be in the room and 0:18:15.200 --> 0:18:17.119 i'd be I'm normally the one in the bag as 0:18:17.160 --> 0:18:21.120 I am as a sort of producer, going no, yes, yeah, 0:18:21.160 --> 0:18:25.800 that that's that's bad. Um, so you're kind of doing 0:18:25.840 --> 0:18:28.159 it together. I don't like the word tongue. Take the 0:18:28.160 --> 0:18:31.520 word tongue out exactly, well, and those things have happened 0:18:31.840 --> 0:18:35.040 like that. That line is dreadful, that's just horrible, get 0:18:35.080 --> 0:18:37.439 rid of it. And he was receptive, absolutely, Yeah, he 0:18:37.480 --> 0:18:42.040 wanted to collaborate with he wanted to amuse in the background. Yeah, 0:18:42.200 --> 0:18:44.320 And I think this happens with a lot of writers 0:18:44.359 --> 0:18:48.119 in any industry, where you can get so self involved 0:18:48.160 --> 0:18:51.560 that you don't know what's good or not. You don't 0:18:51.600 --> 0:18:54.320 know what's resonating with other people because it's all in 0:18:54.359 --> 0:18:58.520 your head. So I'm kind of the sounding board, I guess. 0:18:58.680 --> 0:19:01.400 So that's sort of how it works. When we worked together, 0:19:01.640 --> 0:19:03.159 you know, on The Hurting we did a lot more 0:19:03.200 --> 0:19:05.480 stuff together on the newest album we've done, The Tipping Point. 0:19:06.200 --> 0:19:08.480 This is the first time we've worked very closely together 0:19:08.680 --> 0:19:11.399 in a long time. Which band of viewers had the 0:19:11.480 --> 0:19:14.159 number one song in Spain that was graduate? Okay? How 0:19:14.200 --> 0:19:17.160 did how did that happen? How did English guys from 0:19:17.240 --> 0:19:20.680 Bath write a song about reggae that became the number 0:19:20.680 --> 0:19:22.959 one hit in Spain? What the hell is going on? 0:19:23.040 --> 0:19:25.040 I had no idea. I mean they kind of it's 0:19:25.040 --> 0:19:27.840 because we were young and good looks. It was. It 0:19:27.880 --> 0:19:30.360 was definitely sort of danceable and it just took off 0:19:30.400 --> 0:19:32.760 in Spain for some obscure reason. I mean, there's no 0:19:32.880 --> 0:19:35.240 rhyme or reason to it. So we had screaming girls 0:19:35.280 --> 0:19:38.240 after us in Spain and that's you know, this is 0:19:38.240 --> 0:19:41.160 how I remember when John Lennon was killed, because that's 0:19:41.160 --> 0:19:44.679 what we worked. We were in Spain promoting that single 0:19:44.720 --> 0:19:46.880 in the hotel in Spain, and so every interview ends 0:19:46.920 --> 0:19:50.320 up doing, of course, was about John Lennon. But yeah, 0:19:50.359 --> 0:19:52.359 that was weird. So it was kind of our first 0:19:52.400 --> 0:19:56.240 taste of success as such. But then as a band, 0:19:56.280 --> 0:20:00.320 we then went touring around Europe in two vans, ugging 0:20:00.320 --> 0:20:04.760 the gear, ourselves, driving ourselves and myself in Roland. As 0:20:04.880 --> 0:20:06.879 you know, I don't I don't need to say this 0:20:06.960 --> 0:20:09.480 too many times, but we were not really particularly into 0:20:09.560 --> 0:20:13.159 heart labor and we decided by the end of this 0:20:13.400 --> 0:20:19.040 three weeks of touring Germany that we'd had enough and um, 0:20:19.119 --> 0:20:21.119 we sort of sat down together and said, you know, 0:20:21.440 --> 0:20:23.359 this is not for us then, and and that the 0:20:23.400 --> 0:20:25.959 other guys in the band we loved it, you know, 0:20:26.000 --> 0:20:28.720 they loved just playing live. They were party kind of people, 0:20:29.320 --> 0:20:31.679 and we wanted to do something that had more depth. 0:20:32.040 --> 0:20:34.760 Now I'm gonna read from our prep it says the 0:20:34.880 --> 0:20:37.720 song mad World was born at the time in their 0:20:37.760 --> 0:20:41.159 lives as they were finding themselves as young adults. We 0:20:41.160 --> 0:20:43.840 were sitting in his flat, says Smith, and we were 0:20:43.880 --> 0:20:45.960 looking out the window with people going to work in 0:20:46.000 --> 0:20:50.000 existences we thought were pointless. So did you have I 0:20:50.040 --> 0:20:54.199 mean artists, You're like, what's the point? Where do we 0:20:54.240 --> 0:20:56.359 fit in? Yeah, that was the whole. That was more 0:20:56.440 --> 0:20:59.800 the point. The point was we felt we did not 0:21:00.040 --> 0:21:02.840 it in in that world. We we definitely felt outside 0:21:02.840 --> 0:21:05.600 of that world. We didn't feel we could ever be 0:21:05.640 --> 0:21:09.200