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Speaker 1: Hi, everyone, I'm Kitty Kirk, and this is next question.

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Speaker 1: I am super psyched you guys, because my guest today

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Speaker 1: is the creator of the show everyone is talking about

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Speaker 1: The White Lotus. I'm obsessed. In its second season, the

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Speaker 1: series follows a group of wealthy vacationers and the people

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Speaker 1: who work at a stunning seaside resort in Sicily. Welcome

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Speaker 1: to the White Lotus. I am Valentina, the roysorts manager.

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Speaker 1: How is it both right? It was? I mean, I'm

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Speaker 1: impressed that you're even here. Why are you impressed? It's

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Speaker 1: a long trip from Los Angeles and you're quite old. No, anyway,

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Speaker 1: Isabella here, we'll take you up to the account and

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Speaker 1: bring you to your your beautiful groom and after you

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Speaker 1: a glass of prof thank you. Before the luxe world

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Speaker 1: of The White Lotus, Mike White spent much of his

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Speaker 1: time on The Proof Are creating characters who were two loners, weirdos,

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Speaker 1: and wanderers in movies like Chuck and Buck, The Year

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Speaker 1: of the Dog with Molly Shannon, The Good Girl with

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Speaker 1: Jennifer Anniston, and School of Rock with Jack Black, popular

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Speaker 1: movies in their own right, but nothing like The Mean

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Speaker 1: producing headline driving conspiracy filled chatter surrounding the White lotus.

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Speaker 1: It seems like it's a new, slightly uncomfortable position for

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Speaker 1: Mike to be in. I see myself as an underdog

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Speaker 1: and I and I'm always like that, Like I'm always

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Speaker 1: going to see myself as like somebody who has to

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Speaker 1: prove something. So like, even in success, I still feel

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Speaker 1: like I don't know, Yeah, I'm not. I don't feel

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Speaker 1: like an impostor, but I feel like I'm I don't know,

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Speaker 1: like you know, I slipped in through the side door

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Speaker 1: or something. Today we dive into all of it, the

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Speaker 1: making of the show, the anatomy of those crazy characters,

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Speaker 1: Mike's childhood, and how he really feels about his newfound fame.

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Speaker 1: So let me just first start by asking what does

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Speaker 1: it feel like to be Mike White these days? Well?

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Speaker 1: What a question? I uh, you know. I we honestly

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Speaker 1: just finished the final episode. We had a very crazy

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Speaker 1: shooting schedule that because of COVID and because of weather

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Speaker 1: and Italy and a lot of different reasons, we went

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Speaker 1: over our shoot and so I thought HBO would give

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Speaker 1: us a little break and let us air later than

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Speaker 1: what we were expecting, And instead they were like we

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Speaker 1: need it when we need it, and so it cut

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Speaker 1: into our post. So I was editing and finishing the

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Speaker 1: show up until like ten days ago. So I've just

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Speaker 1: been like, I'm I'm living in Hawaii right now for

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Speaker 1: tax reasons. There's a good incentive for them to do

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Speaker 1: the post here, which is great. But I soa I've

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Speaker 1: been kind of in a bubble. I'm just been finishing

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Speaker 1: the show, uh, living on an island, and so yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's I don't know, I don't I don't know what

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Speaker 1: it's like to but it, but it doesn't I'm not

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Speaker 1: getting It's not like I'm it's not like I'm walking

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Speaker 1: around l A and like getting a high five from

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Speaker 1: people or anything like that. So it's it's it, but

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Speaker 1: I'm but I'm excited that it's sentence that that people

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Speaker 1: are watching the show and liking it, and I'm definitely

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Speaker 1: getting that. But it's but it's just pretty I'm still

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Speaker 1: kind of living on an island and living in a bubble. Well.

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Speaker 1: Having said that, though, Mike, let's get real. I mean

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Speaker 1: you are sort of the envy of everyone in Hollywood,

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Speaker 1: and this is something that you've talked about kind of

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Speaker 1: willingly in an article you did in in Vulture. You

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Speaker 1: talked about Hollywood, Who's up, Who's down, kind of how

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Speaker 1: people are all envious of one another and that you're

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Speaker 1: uber competitive. So have you been have you said all that, Mike,

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Speaker 1: have you been able to take a moment and it's

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Speaker 1: kind of say the bomb? Oh my god, No, no

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Speaker 1: that's not me, but but yes, I I am. I'm

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Speaker 1: you know, it's honestly, Katie, I feel like i'm you know,

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Speaker 1: I'm fifty two years old, and I've been doing this

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Speaker 1: since I was twenty two years old, and so and

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Speaker 1: I've had, you know, a lot of things made, and

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Speaker 1: a lot of things that I thought were successful, but

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Speaker 1: not at this yeah, with this kind of reaction. And

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Speaker 1: so I just sort of feel like to use the like,

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Speaker 1: since I'm in Hawaii, like an analogy that fits here,

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Speaker 1: which is like I feel like I'm a surfer who's

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Speaker 1: been out in the ocean for a long time and

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Speaker 1: like I caught a wave. I don't know why this wave,

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Speaker 1: but like you know, obviously I I'm old enough and

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Speaker 1: have had a long enough career to see it as yeah,

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Speaker 1: a blessing and but also something that you can't you know,

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Speaker 1: I I would never try to chase this reaction because

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Speaker 1: I just it's just it's just you just never know

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Speaker 1: what's gonna yeah, what people are gonna respond to. So

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Speaker 1: I'm excited. I'll take your word for it that that's that.

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Speaker 1: It's it's that, Yeah, I don't know. I'm obviously I'm happy.

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Speaker 1: It's like I mean, I I was like at the

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Speaker 1: age where I was just like can I keep doing?

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Speaker 1: You know, like it was like maybe the old Gray

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Speaker 1: Mary what she used to be, And I'm gonna like

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Speaker 1: so like it's nice to have a little like uh,

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Speaker 1: it's it's it's definitely fun. I'm very excited, but I

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Speaker 1: don't know whatever. Well, let's talk about the genesis of

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Speaker 1: White lotus um. I was at a party and I

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Speaker 1: heard from a couple of Hollywood types that HBO had

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Speaker 1: access to a hotel that was empty in Maui during

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Speaker 1: COVID and came to you and said, hey, Mike White,

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Speaker 1: can you write a show that takes place in a hotel?

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Speaker 1: Is that how it started? It? Kind of? It definitely

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Speaker 1: was like they need they had a lot of projects

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Speaker 1: that had fallen apart because of COVID, and so they

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Speaker 1: just they knew why I was kind of fast and

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Speaker 1: that like I was good with dialogue, and that like

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Speaker 1: maybe a show that was very that I could write

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Speaker 1: a show in a bubble that was like that would

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Speaker 1: maybe be immune from some of the COVID uh issues

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Speaker 1: that they had come upon. And so so they asked

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Speaker 1: me to do it, like can you come up with

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Speaker 1: a bubble show? But they didn't have a I was like,

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Speaker 1: it was my idea to do it in a hotel.

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Speaker 1: And I I was like, and I'm you know, I

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Speaker 1: have a place in Kuaie and I'm like, and I

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Speaker 1: knew that there were all these hotels that were just

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Speaker 1: yeah defunct and they were just head shut down because

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Speaker 1: of COVID, And I was like, we could grab one

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Speaker 1: of those hotels in bed in Hawaii. But they didn't

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Speaker 1: even really want us to go to Hawaii because that

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Speaker 1: was already to um treacherous potential issues with COVID. They

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Speaker 1: wanted us like they probably would have been having even

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Speaker 1: found like a hotel and like Lancaster, like you know

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Speaker 1: across the street from Casey Boys's house or something, right,

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Speaker 1: So like so yeah, I just um uh, so yeah,

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Speaker 1: I had to push for Hawaii. But yeah, it was

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Speaker 1: kind of a mix a mix of that, and tell

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Speaker 1: me a little bit about how you were inspired to

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Speaker 1: write really both seasons, but let's start with the first.

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Speaker 1: I mean, when you sit down to write this, Mike,

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Speaker 1: what were you trying to accomplish? I know that's kind

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Speaker 1: of a big broad question, but I'm just curious. You've

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Speaker 1: got a blank screen, a blank computer screen, and you

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Speaker 1: decide I want to show class differences. I wanted to

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Speaker 1: show really interesting characters. I think one of the things,

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Speaker 1: I one of many things I love about this show

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Speaker 1: is it feels very current. You know, sometimes things get

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Speaker 1: made and they come out a couple of years later

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Speaker 1: or even a year later, and they don't feel oh

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Speaker 1: karent or of the moment. And I think White Load

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Speaker 1: has felt so tuned into current sensibilities. So just talk

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Speaker 1: to me a little bit about your thought process when

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Speaker 1: you put a finger to keyboard. Are you talking about

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Speaker 1: like the like the first season? Yeah, sure, and we'll

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Speaker 1: talk about the second. Yeah. The first season it was

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Speaker 1: I I you know, I've spent a lot of time

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Speaker 1: in Hawaii, so you know, some of and a lot

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Speaker 1: of the in Hawaii, there's definitely like two classes. There's

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Speaker 1: the you know, the tourists and the moneyed people who

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Speaker 1: come and like you know, have their vacations here. And

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Speaker 1: then there's the service class of people who you know,

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Speaker 1: can be at any you know, some of them are

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Speaker 1: do very well financially, but they're all servicing these tourists,

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Speaker 1: and so you you know, if you hear long enough,

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Speaker 1: you get like this. You know, the I obviously know

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Speaker 1: the tourist side of it because I've been there, and

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Speaker 1: I you know, it's like and a lot of my

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Speaker 1: friends who visit, you know, so I get that part

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Speaker 1: of it, but they also you know, the service side

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Speaker 1: of it. And I just felt like, you know, there's

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Speaker 1: something about doing you know, because obviously Hotel or like

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Speaker 1: Fantasy Island, you think Love Vote, Like there's like there's

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Speaker 1: like a history of these kind of shows in this

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Speaker 1: kind of you know, trying to genre exactly, but to

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Speaker 1: do something that is a little bit more well observed,

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Speaker 1: and that kind of gets it. You know. I just

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Speaker 1: thought it was like an interesting about how money, who

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Speaker 1: has the money impacts relationships both obviously from the server

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Speaker 1: and the you know, customer, but also you know, the

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Speaker 1: husband and the wife and the father and the child

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Speaker 1: and and and so it just felt like maybe as

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Speaker 1: a theme that seemed rich, and so that was kind

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Speaker 1: of initial impulse because I was like, we're gonna be

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Speaker 1: in a hotel. You know, nobody can leave. It's kind

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Speaker 1: of has to be a crucible everyone, you know, And

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Speaker 1: so yeah, it kind of built out from there. And

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Speaker 1: then it was just like years of maybe years of

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Speaker 1: too much being online and like Twitter speak and like

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Speaker 1: it was just like I was like, like I would

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Speaker 1: just started freestyling as far as just like trying to

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Speaker 1: get at some of the I don't know the kind

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Speaker 1: of contemporary language and stuff like that. It seems to

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Speaker 1: me you're almost like a an anthropologist kind of discovering

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Speaker 1: and exposing human behavior. And I when I watch I

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Speaker 1: wonder how much of this did Mike learn from being

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Speaker 1: on reality shows how people act? Because obviously you were

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Speaker 1: in Survivor. On Survivor, I understand you're a good friend

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Speaker 1: of Jeff Probes. Do you love reality television? You were

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Speaker 1: on the Amazing Race with your dad. So did some

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Speaker 1: of those experience help inform your writing for White Lotus?

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Speaker 1: Am I getting too weird on these questions? No? Not

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Speaker 1: at all. I I mean I actually what I loved

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Speaker 1: when I when I you know, because I was obviously

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Speaker 1: a writer before the big reality boom, which I think

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Speaker 1: started like in two thousand ish. Um. And then uh

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Speaker 1: but like you know, you show like Survivor came along

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Speaker 1: and you were like, wow, it was showing people, you know,

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Speaker 1: one minute they would be very irritating or very petty,

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Speaker 1: and then the next minute they would be very um,

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Speaker 1: vulnerable and your heart goes out to them, and then

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Speaker 1: they could be courageous, and I don't know, it was

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Speaker 1: just like you would see these these I mean because

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Speaker 1: they were people. It was like fully dimensional humans. And

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Speaker 1: even though maybe the format could be formula, uh, there

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Speaker 1: was something I just as a writer, I was like,

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Speaker 1: this is this is you know, this this makes you

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Speaker 1: want to raise your game as far as like when

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Speaker 1: you are creating characters that people are watching, because it

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Speaker 1: felt like they were always surprising and you were you know,

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Speaker 1: you just you There wasn't some internal integrity obviously, but

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Speaker 1: there was also all of these colors and so it

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Speaker 1: I've always wanted to try to write characters that could match,

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Speaker 1: you know, some of the great you know, personalities that

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Speaker 1: you see in reality TV. So yeah, I do think

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Speaker 1: that's a that's a part of it. And I just

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Speaker 1: think when I was very young, starting very early, I

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Speaker 1: was I was always um, you know, I had Sam

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Speaker 1: Shepherd's mother was my second grade teacher, and she loved

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Speaker 1: her son and I loved her, and so it was

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Speaker 1: the first time that I realized, oh, people were play rights.

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Speaker 1: So very early on I was writing little plays and so, like,

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Speaker 1: I've always listened, and I've always been interested in how

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Speaker 1: people talk, because I've always thought about things in terms

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Speaker 1: of dialogue, and then also how what they say about

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Speaker 1: themselves doesn't always necessarily match what they think and doesn't

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Speaker 1: always match what they are going to do, and so

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Speaker 1: that's always been interesting to me, and so I've always

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Speaker 1: been kind of an observer of of that. I guess

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Speaker 1: I think your childhood, though, in addition to being taught

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Speaker 1: by Sam Shepherd's mother in second grade, which is a

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Speaker 1: cool little fact at Trivia fact Um, you grew up

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Speaker 1: in an evangelical household in Pasadena, and yet you were

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Speaker 1: always skeptical about religion. What was your childhood like, Mike, Well,

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Speaker 1: my parents were very loving and I loved. I had

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Speaker 1: a very nurturing, positive, um nuclear family. My dad was

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Speaker 1: a minister, and we were part of a bigger, kind

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Speaker 1: of more evangelical religious community, and it was there that

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Speaker 1: community where it was death really felt. I always felt

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Speaker 1: a little alien. I never really drunk the kool aid,

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Speaker 1: as they say, and I I always yeah, it was

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Speaker 1: there where you I think that I, you know, some

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Speaker 1: of the you know, part of drama is is yeah,

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Speaker 1: getting past then, you know, the facade and trying to

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Speaker 1: see what people really do and what people really are like,

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Speaker 1: but beyond what they say they do. And I think

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Speaker 1: there's a lot of hypocrisy and a lot of those

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Speaker 1: smaller evangelical communities about you know, certainly around sex and

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Speaker 1: around how people you know, think about you know, what

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Speaker 1: the motivations for behavior are and stuff, and so I

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Speaker 1: I have so it always I always felt like I

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Speaker 1: was like I always wanted to know. I was like,

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Speaker 1: what's the what's the real you know, like I've always

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Speaker 1: been like, yeah, interested in like what really how what

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Speaker 1: people do and how that that's sometimes not really in

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Speaker 1: line with how they present themselves. I think that shows

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Speaker 1: up in a lot of your work, Mike. I was

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Speaker 1: rewatching Brad's status, and I think that was very effective

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Speaker 1: in terms of this inner turmoil brad a k ah

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Speaker 1: Ben Stiller is experiencing, comparing him his station in life

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Speaker 1: to all of his college friends who were doing much better.

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Speaker 1: And I think that external internal conflict is something it

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Speaker 1: seems to me that you you go back to. And

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Speaker 1: I read that when you were eleven, your dad came

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Speaker 1: out to your family. He was a minister, as you mentioned,

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Speaker 1: but also a gross writer for people like Jerry Fallwell

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Speaker 1: and Tammy Baker, and you once said finding out about

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Speaker 1: your dad's sexuality is quote the key to everything I write.

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Speaker 1: How so well just in the sense of what I

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Speaker 1: was just talking about, which is, you know, uh, it's

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Speaker 1: a big run to be pulled from under you where

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Speaker 1: you know, you've think your family is this thing, and

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Speaker 1: your dad is this thing, and he's a minister, and

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Speaker 1: then you realize there's this other, whole other side, which

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Speaker 1: isn't necessarily a dark side, it's just a truth. And

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Speaker 1: the truth is in contradiction to what he's supposed to

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Speaker 1: be in the world. And and so I think, you know,

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Speaker 1: exploring that and and and and I think that that, yeah,

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Speaker 1: that just just to me, it just you know, obviously

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Speaker 1: it hit home in a literal way, just that you know,

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Speaker 1: we are more complicated than we present ourselves, and that

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Speaker 1: we put are certain face to our community, and that

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Speaker 1: that maybe in drama and showing some of that. Obviously

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Speaker 1: there's a titillation part of it, but then there's like

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Speaker 1: maybe some kind of solace to know that, like everybody

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Speaker 1: is grappling with this, like that the person that we

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Speaker 1: want to be and the person that the world wants

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Speaker 1: us to be, we're not always that and that's okay

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Speaker 1: and that's human and and that kind of thing. You

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Speaker 1: went to Wesleyan, I know, and you said you finally

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Speaker 1: found your people there. So how did Wesleyan affect you,

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Speaker 1: not only as a person but as a writer. Well,

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Speaker 1: I I was in a kind of more homogeneous community

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Speaker 1: growing up in high school, you know, and grade school,

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Speaker 1: and so going to Wesleyan, you know, it was a

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Speaker 1: very open minded liberal community in general, and also just

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Speaker 1: these kids were so sophisticated. It was like I was

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Speaker 1: just like I just felt like I was like like

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Speaker 1: behind the curve, you know. I was kind of a

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Speaker 1: self taught. I mean, I was just I mean I

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Speaker 1: went to a good school, but it was like as

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Speaker 1: far as culture and stuff, I was just I was,

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Speaker 1: you know, I like, I had my own like subscription

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Speaker 1: to the New Yorker for I was, I was just

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Speaker 1: trying to find my way through the culture. And so,

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Speaker 1: like I would, I went to Wesley and all these

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Speaker 1: you know, a lot of I mean, it was a

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Speaker 1: lot of New York Jewish kids who are like very

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Speaker 1: like fully baked and fully like you know, you know,

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Speaker 1: like new fancy people. And I was just like I

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Speaker 1: kind of was just I felt like a rube. But

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Speaker 1: I got but I was so enamored by the yeah,

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Speaker 1: the whole vibe there and and still to this day,

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Speaker 1: a lot of those kids I met there are are

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Speaker 1: my my friend group. And when you when you graduated

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Speaker 1: from Wesleyan, were you really interested in play writing or

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Speaker 1: just writing in general? Well, I wanted to be a playwright.

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Speaker 1: I wanted to be Sam Shepherd. I went from California

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Speaker 1: to Yeah, to Wesley and and I was like I

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Speaker 1: didn't have socks and I didn't realize how cold it

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Speaker 1: was back East. I was like, this is too cold

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Speaker 1: for me. Like I so I was like, I was like,

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Speaker 1: my plan was to go to New York was starting playwright.

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Speaker 1: But I was like, I don't know if I could

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Speaker 1: handle this weather, I was like, so, I like kind

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Speaker 1: of I fell into the wrong crowd and came back

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Speaker 1: to l A I was started writing for for movies

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Speaker 1: and TV. After the break, Let's go to Sicily Bowie.

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Speaker 1: When you look back at your quote unquote body of

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Speaker 1: work like White, do you notice any kind of thread

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Speaker 1: that connects a lot of these stories when you think

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Speaker 1: about it, Um, I don't know, me I have a thread,

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Speaker 1: I don't know, and they're I mean, it's an idiosyncratic

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Speaker 1: body of work and I and I'm proud. I like

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Speaker 1: I one thing that I always was like, I'm not

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Speaker 1: going to take myself so seriously that I miss out

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Speaker 1: on anything like and That's how That's why I did Survivor.

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Speaker 1: That's why I did amazing Race. It's why I've taken

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Speaker 1: jobs that I don't know. It's like, you know, like

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Speaker 1: I always thought that I I mean, if now now

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Speaker 1: I do sound like whatever, I just you know, it's

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Speaker 1: like I always thought I was talented. I always felt

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Speaker 1: like I had some in the offer. I always felt

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Speaker 1: like I was, you know, like I like you said

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Speaker 1: I was. You know, I've said I'm competitive, like I

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Speaker 1: would see peers who like, you know, caught the wave

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Speaker 1: and got a lot of like attention and success, and

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Speaker 1: I was like, I could do that. I'm better, I'm

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Speaker 1: I'm as good or better than those people. And and

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Speaker 1: you know, of course that's the that's the that's the

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Speaker 1: gumption that you need to get through Hollywood by like

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Speaker 1: and so um so. But at the same time, I

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Speaker 1: was just like, I'm not gonna be I met people

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Speaker 1: early on who had careers that I admired, and a

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Speaker 1: lot of them seem miserable or they seem like they

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Speaker 1: were really um in a um you know, protective of

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Speaker 1: their you know, like they I don't know, they that

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Speaker 1: in order to be serious taken seriously, they had to

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Speaker 1: kind of have a serious vibe. And it's like we're

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Speaker 1: in the we're in the we're in the you know.

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Speaker 1: I I think our work is meaningful, but like we

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Speaker 1: are in the in the sort of we're in the

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Speaker 1: kids section in a sense, know what I mean. We're

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Speaker 1: not we're not you know, we're not hearing cancer. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: we're not hearing cancer or not in the policy we're

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Speaker 1: not policy wants. We're not It's like we are you know,

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Speaker 1: we're in the we're in the entertainment section, you know

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Speaker 1: what I mean. So it's like and so I just

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Speaker 1: was like, I just don't I want to. I want

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Speaker 1: to be successful and I want people to think I'm talented,

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Speaker 1: but I also I want to I want to live

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Speaker 1: a life that I look back on and the life

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Speaker 1: itself was cool and then and the things I did

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Speaker 1: were cool, and it's not just my work. So so

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Speaker 1: like I look at those all those different things and

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Speaker 1: that it's like it's it's an eclectic it's like it's

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Speaker 1: kind of a hot mess, like a bunch of credits,

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Speaker 1: but I each one of them. I like I got

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Speaker 1: different things out of and and and yeah, I had

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Speaker 1: served different purposes for me. But right now you are

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Speaker 1: in a very different position, like because I'm sure everyone

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Speaker 1: in Hollywood is saying that Mike White he can write

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Speaker 1: his own ticket. Now he can kind of do whatever

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Speaker 1: he wants, which I think makes you a little uncomfortable. Well,

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Speaker 1: I don't know. I feel like this is like it's

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Speaker 1: like I'm waking up in Hawaiians like Haiti Kurt is

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Speaker 1: here to tell you everything has changed. Everything is I

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Speaker 1: feel like your therapist, Like no, well, I I appreciate

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Speaker 1: you saying that, and I and I, you know, I

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Speaker 1: actually feel like I if that's true. I feel like

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Speaker 1: I feel like I'm like somebody who's been ready to

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Speaker 1: be at bat for a long time. And I've done it,

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Speaker 1: you know, like you know, and I've I've done things.

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Speaker 1: I'm proud of it. But like I've it's always been

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Speaker 1: swimming upstream to get the financing, to get the actor,

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Speaker 1: to get the thing to the you know, like it's

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Speaker 1: it's and that's part of the fun, I guess, but

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Speaker 1: it's also part it's there's wear and tear. So it's like,

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Speaker 1: if it's an easier road to do the things I

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Speaker 1: want to do, I'm ready to do more and I

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Speaker 1: have more to say, and I, you know, like and

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Speaker 1: it's and and this was hard. It took a lot

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Speaker 1: out of me, especially this last season. But this is

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Speaker 1: what I've always wanted to do and and and and

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Speaker 1: so I'm grateful that I have the opportunity to do it.

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Speaker 1: Are you having fun, Mike? I am having fun. I'm

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Speaker 1: having fun talking to you. I'm hearing why I'm you know,

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Speaker 1: I've gotten through the season and everyone's you know, chatting up,

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Speaker 1: so that's fun. But I also I need to reboot

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Speaker 1: a little bit. I don't have a lot of gas

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Speaker 1: in the tank, so I need to figure out how

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Speaker 1: to whatever unplug and refresh or something. Let's talk about

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Speaker 1: this current season of White Lotus, because I'm worried, Mike,

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Speaker 1: I'm worried about the characters. I'm White. I'm really worried.

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Speaker 1: I'm I'm really worried. I'm worried about Porscha. I'm really

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Speaker 1: worried about Tanya. I'm worried about is it Albie? I mean,

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Speaker 1: I'm worried about everyone. What are you doing to us? Mike? Well,

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Speaker 1: the fun thing about Yeah, what I'd like about this

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Speaker 1: format is that, like I like, I kind of like

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Speaker 1: a slow simmer, you know, so it's it's fun. Well,

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Speaker 1: you know, I think the pleasure of this one, and

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Speaker 1: certainly this season and last season two, I think is like,

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Speaker 1: you know, you hope you create very credible characters, and

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Speaker 1: you create a situation that like you're like it passes

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Speaker 1: the bullish ship detector to some degree and that and

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Speaker 1: then and then just start to like cook up the gap,

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Speaker 1: you know, like turn up the heat just so it's like,

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Speaker 1: you know, it's like almost like when you're on the

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Speaker 1: yeah roller coaster and you're like chi chi ch and

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Speaker 1: you're like going up and you're like this is gonna

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Speaker 1: go really far down, like we are really going chick.

428
00:23:44,960 --> 00:23:48,840
Speaker 1: So yeah, And I think the finale hopefully will satisfy

429
00:23:49,880 --> 00:23:52,960
Speaker 1: the Catharsis And I mean, yeah, there's gonna be a

430
00:23:53,040 --> 00:23:56,639
Speaker 1: lot of there's gonna be a lot of gnashing of

431
00:23:57,000 --> 00:24:00,879
Speaker 1: teeth and it's yes, but but yeah, you should be worried.

432
00:24:02,560 --> 00:24:05,159
Speaker 1: I keep thinking about that story of the woman that

433
00:24:05,400 --> 00:24:09,800
Speaker 1: fell that they threw off the mountain. I also keep

434
00:24:09,800 --> 00:24:15,760
Speaker 1: worrying about the the wife of the the cheesy finance

435
00:24:15,800 --> 00:24:20,479
Speaker 1: guy saying, Oh, you're gonna die here. They're gonna have

436
00:24:20,560 --> 00:24:24,439
Speaker 1: to drag you out of this place. I keep thinking, oh,

437
00:24:24,480 --> 00:24:28,200
Speaker 1: what does that mean? I have my right to pick

438
00:24:28,320 --> 00:24:30,959
Speaker 1: up on some of these things. I mean, well, some

439
00:24:31,040 --> 00:24:34,520
Speaker 1: of them are intentional to build the for the finale,

440
00:24:34,600 --> 00:24:38,160
Speaker 1: and some are a little bit mrrects so that people think, yeah,

441
00:24:38,520 --> 00:24:40,280
Speaker 1: you want to You want people to like feel like

442
00:24:40,320 --> 00:24:43,040
Speaker 1: they're you know, Miss Marple and they've got the clues,

443
00:24:43,119 --> 00:24:47,359
Speaker 1: but you need extra clues. You know, it's not so

444
00:24:47,400 --> 00:24:50,359
Speaker 1: obvious what happens. But I think people I think even

445
00:24:50,400 --> 00:24:54,720
Speaker 1: if you guess you're gonna be surprised, but just how

446
00:24:54,760 --> 00:24:58,720
Speaker 1: it all falls apart um. I love the way you

447
00:24:58,880 --> 00:25:02,800
Speaker 1: use art interchangeably. First of all, obviously you're obsessed with

448
00:25:02,880 --> 00:25:05,320
Speaker 1: kind of those water shots, which I really liked to

449
00:25:05,840 --> 00:25:09,439
Speaker 1: but I love the I love the painting, the artifacts,

450
00:25:09,480 --> 00:25:14,879
Speaker 1: the architecture, the shots of the porcelain head, of that

451
00:25:15,040 --> 00:25:18,639
Speaker 1: same porcelain head guy that you keep going back to

452
00:25:18,880 --> 00:25:22,320
Speaker 1: again and again. Tell me your thought process about using

453
00:25:22,440 --> 00:25:25,800
Speaker 1: that as a way to propel the story forward or

454
00:25:25,920 --> 00:25:29,120
Speaker 1: to foreshadow things, or to echo what might be going

455
00:25:29,200 --> 00:25:34,119
Speaker 1: on at the time. Can you tell like that very intimly. Yeah,

456
00:25:34,160 --> 00:25:36,520
Speaker 1: that's awesome. Yeah, well the tested him where I was

457
00:25:36,560 --> 00:25:38,800
Speaker 1: when I got there, I was like, because they're everywhere

458
00:25:38,800 --> 00:25:42,840
Speaker 1: in sicily those heads and the story behind it has

459
00:25:42,880 --> 00:25:45,560
Speaker 1: to and the reason for the whole season was because

460
00:25:45,640 --> 00:25:48,159
Speaker 1: these heads. I was like, because I would go around like,

461
00:25:48,160 --> 00:25:51,159
Speaker 1: these heads are everywhere, and it was about adultery and

462
00:25:51,320 --> 00:25:54,600
Speaker 1: violence and sexual jealousy, and I was like that just

463
00:25:54,880 --> 00:25:56,760
Speaker 1: I had a different idea for the second season. I

464
00:25:56,760 --> 00:25:59,320
Speaker 1: was like, no, we've got to do an operatic like

465
00:25:59,440 --> 00:26:03,679
Speaker 1: itally in sexual jealousy storyline, I mean, and it's like

466
00:26:03,720 --> 00:26:06,919
Speaker 1: that's that's what people want to see anyway. But also

467
00:26:07,320 --> 00:26:09,800
Speaker 1: this is the part of my job that people should

468
00:26:09,800 --> 00:26:12,239
Speaker 1: be jealous of, which is I go to Sicily. I'm

469
00:26:12,280 --> 00:26:15,320
Speaker 1: telling them I'm doing white Lotus. All of the rich

470
00:26:16,080 --> 00:26:20,120
Speaker 1: like Sicilians who have these pilazzos are willing to let

471
00:26:20,160 --> 00:26:23,359
Speaker 1: me come in and like snoop around their house. I

472
00:26:23,359 --> 00:26:25,399
Speaker 1: got to see all these and so like two of

473
00:26:25,440 --> 00:26:27,800
Speaker 1: them ended up in the show. But like you walk

474
00:26:27,840 --> 00:26:30,080
Speaker 1: around and you have no idea that behind this, like

475
00:26:30,880 --> 00:26:35,280
Speaker 1: you know, edifice is like this incredible polazzo that they're

476
00:26:35,280 --> 00:26:37,280
Speaker 1: all there. A lot of them are hidden, It's like

477
00:26:37,720 --> 00:26:40,000
Speaker 1: and then to be able to like get access to

478
00:26:40,040 --> 00:26:41,679
Speaker 1: those and see them, and I was like, well we

479
00:26:41,720 --> 00:26:43,959
Speaker 1: gotta Like so when we would get into these places,

480
00:26:44,000 --> 00:26:45,760
Speaker 1: I was like, we gotta shoot. We gotta just like

481
00:26:45,880 --> 00:26:48,680
Speaker 1: fire hose this down, Like we gotta get every piece

482
00:26:48,680 --> 00:26:51,240
Speaker 1: of art on the walls, like we gotta do push

483
00:26:51,280 --> 00:26:54,040
Speaker 1: ins on all of the you know. So for someone

484
00:26:54,080 --> 00:26:57,240
Speaker 1: who like you know, likes interior, you know whatever, like

485
00:26:57,400 --> 00:27:01,720
Speaker 1: these kind of like classic Max the List, eclectic, like

486
00:27:01,840 --> 00:27:04,399
Speaker 1: you know, like rich, you know, Palazza is like I

487
00:27:04,440 --> 00:27:06,000
Speaker 1: was just like I was in heaven. So I just

488
00:27:06,200 --> 00:27:07,719
Speaker 1: felt like I had to make the most of it.

489
00:27:08,119 --> 00:27:10,600
Speaker 1: And I mean it must have been an extraordinary place

490
00:27:10,720 --> 00:27:13,520
Speaker 1: to film. And is that a real hotel? Was that

491
00:27:13,880 --> 00:27:17,840
Speaker 1: hotel vacant as well? Or tell me about the location.

492
00:27:18,040 --> 00:27:20,439
Speaker 1: I want to go to that hotel? Yeah you should.

493
00:27:20,560 --> 00:27:23,840
Speaker 1: It's it's the Sandamnico Palace, which is like a very

494
00:27:23,880 --> 00:27:27,440
Speaker 1: historical um. It was originally a convent and thenn turned

495
00:27:27,440 --> 00:27:29,240
Speaker 1: into a hotel, but it's been a hotel for quite

496
00:27:29,240 --> 00:27:31,560
Speaker 1: a lot a long time, and Lave and Turo was

497
00:27:31,640 --> 00:27:35,919
Speaker 1: shot there. It's like it's it's a it's amazing because obviously,

498
00:27:36,320 --> 00:27:37,800
Speaker 1: you know, I got we we looked at a lot

499
00:27:37,840 --> 00:27:40,000
Speaker 1: of different hotels and it's just like, first the convent

500
00:27:40,119 --> 00:27:42,679
Speaker 1: part of it just gives it this added kind of

501
00:27:42,840 --> 00:27:46,240
Speaker 1: you know vibe, and then you know, you see these

502
00:27:46,359 --> 00:27:50,280
Speaker 1: terraced hills with all these different you know villas, you

503
00:27:50,320 --> 00:27:53,400
Speaker 1: know that are so classic and European, and and then

504
00:27:53,480 --> 00:27:56,280
Speaker 1: you have the Greek theater on one side, and then

505
00:27:56,320 --> 00:27:58,880
Speaker 1: the Ionian Sea in front, and then the mount now

506
00:27:58,880 --> 00:28:02,080
Speaker 1: which is literally you know, belching smoke half the time.

507
00:28:02,160 --> 00:28:04,440
Speaker 1: And he was like, this is if we're going to

508
00:28:04,480 --> 00:28:06,359
Speaker 1: go to Europe, this is what you go for you

509
00:28:06,400 --> 00:28:09,080
Speaker 1: go for these views. So it's definitely I I highly

510
00:28:09,119 --> 00:28:14,200
Speaker 1: recommend Tarmina and Sicily itself. It's it's like you really

511
00:28:14,280 --> 00:28:17,159
Speaker 1: can't spend enough time there. It's like as each you know,

512
00:28:17,200 --> 00:28:19,080
Speaker 1: it was just after a few days it was like

513
00:28:19,880 --> 00:28:21,679
Speaker 1: I was like, Okay, we've done the sightseeing, but like

514
00:28:21,720 --> 00:28:24,040
Speaker 1: it's just like then there's just this like vibe over

515
00:28:24,080 --> 00:28:28,320
Speaker 1: time that just really seduces you. Did you find Luccia

516
00:28:28,440 --> 00:28:34,760
Speaker 1: and Mia in Sicily? No, we we found them in Rome. Uh.

517
00:28:34,880 --> 00:28:38,920
Speaker 1: Simona who plays Lucia is actually from Naples and um

518
00:28:39,000 --> 00:28:41,400
Speaker 1: MIA's from Rome. But we had a great set of

519
00:28:42,040 --> 00:28:46,800
Speaker 1: casting directors from Italy who brought us a lot of options.

520
00:28:46,840 --> 00:28:51,000
Speaker 1: And those those two and Sabrina and Patria Tory who

521
00:28:51,040 --> 00:28:53,680
Speaker 1: plays the manager, they're all they were all incredible and

522
00:28:53,800 --> 00:28:56,640
Speaker 1: so fun to work with. Yeah, they were fun to watch,

523
00:28:56,760 --> 00:28:59,360
Speaker 1: I'll tell you that. And I know that you have

524
00:28:59,480 --> 00:29:03,120
Speaker 1: said that the show satirizes wealthy, white privilege, and you've

525
00:29:03,120 --> 00:29:05,840
Speaker 1: said that your intention was to quote unquote poke the Bear,

526
00:29:06,240 --> 00:29:10,320
Speaker 1: but through a humanist perspective. So help us out with that, Mike,

527
00:29:10,360 --> 00:29:14,560
Speaker 1: what did you mean, um, well, poke the Bear? I

528
00:29:14,600 --> 00:29:18,880
Speaker 1: don't you know obviously you're I'm satirizing privilege, but you know,

529
00:29:19,000 --> 00:29:22,200
Speaker 1: especially with the first season, I also was poking the

530
00:29:22,280 --> 00:29:24,480
Speaker 1: bear as far as some of the I don't know,

531
00:29:24,640 --> 00:29:28,440
Speaker 1: like I wanted to give voice to both you know,

532
00:29:29,320 --> 00:29:34,040
Speaker 1: the critiques of of the patriarchy and all of these

533
00:29:34,080 --> 00:29:37,000
Speaker 1: things that you know, we we are discussing, you know,

534
00:29:37,080 --> 00:29:40,320
Speaker 1: and have been discussing with fervor the last couple of years,

535
00:29:40,360 --> 00:29:43,840
Speaker 1: but also give voice to the people that are you know,

536
00:29:43,880 --> 00:29:46,360
Speaker 1: it's like, you know, I haven't hearing you know, like

537
00:29:46,360 --> 00:29:48,680
Speaker 1: like some of the conversations that I'm hearing that people

538
00:29:48,680 --> 00:29:52,120
Speaker 1: don't want to say in public but like behind closed doors,

539
00:29:52,640 --> 00:29:56,000
Speaker 1: and try to you know, like not you know, make

540
00:29:56,040 --> 00:29:59,080
Speaker 1: it so it you're kind of walking the line where okay,

541
00:29:59,120 --> 00:30:01,840
Speaker 1: well that's sort of is a fair point, and then like,

542
00:30:01,880 --> 00:30:04,400
Speaker 1: oh yeah, but you're saying that because this is you know,

543
00:30:04,480 --> 00:30:06,840
Speaker 1: you're you're defending, you know, you're on your heels, So

544
00:30:07,000 --> 00:30:10,000
Speaker 1: like trying to make it so it's not so such

545
00:30:10,040 --> 00:30:15,960
Speaker 1: a simple, predigested conversation and and and have those conversations

546
00:30:16,040 --> 00:30:22,200
Speaker 1: be um lively and like you know, multi layered, multi

547
00:30:22,240 --> 00:30:25,800
Speaker 1: layered enough that like people feel like, oh they're they're

548
00:30:25,800 --> 00:30:28,800
Speaker 1: being seen and then and it's still challenged and so

549
00:30:29,120 --> 00:30:31,800
Speaker 1: and that was that was what I was trying to do.

550
00:30:31,880 --> 00:30:35,280
Speaker 1: And you know, like and and the fact that like

551
00:30:35,800 --> 00:30:38,480
Speaker 1: people on both sides of some of these arguments, like

552
00:30:38,600 --> 00:30:41,920
Speaker 1: champion the show or also like hated the show, made

553
00:30:41,920 --> 00:30:44,280
Speaker 1: me feel like I did my job. Yeah, so you're

554
00:30:44,360 --> 00:30:48,440
Speaker 1: you're really showing some of those tricky conversations that people

555
00:30:48,520 --> 00:30:51,520
Speaker 1: do have behind closed doors. And I think that that's

556
00:30:51,560 --> 00:30:55,040
Speaker 1: what contributes, Mike to the realness of the show and

557
00:30:55,080 --> 00:30:59,920
Speaker 1: the dialogue that you know, you feel like this is

558
00:31:00,040 --> 00:31:02,600
Speaker 1: what people really are talking about, and that you're not

559
00:31:02,720 --> 00:31:09,160
Speaker 1: following some kind of prescriptive dialogue to be on the

560
00:31:09,280 --> 00:31:13,480
Speaker 1: right side of any issue. Yeah, because I don't even

561
00:31:13,560 --> 00:31:16,440
Speaker 1: I don't even It's like, ultimately, it's like, I don't

562
00:31:16,440 --> 00:31:19,400
Speaker 1: think it's the dramatist job too. It's I don't think

563
00:31:19,400 --> 00:31:23,520
Speaker 1: it's it's a message conveying machine. If I was trying

564
00:31:23,520 --> 00:31:26,360
Speaker 1: to make a message, then I would be communicating in

565
00:31:26,360 --> 00:31:29,840
Speaker 1: a different medium or a different kind of Uh. It's

566
00:31:29,840 --> 00:31:32,520
Speaker 1: really about giving voice of the different people who exist

567
00:31:32,600 --> 00:31:34,520
Speaker 1: in our world and try, you know, and do my

568
00:31:34,560 --> 00:31:37,520
Speaker 1: best to to make it feel like it's a you know,

569
00:31:37,840 --> 00:31:42,640
Speaker 1: a dimensional conversation after the break, why Mike spends so

570
00:31:42,760 --> 00:31:59,520
Speaker 1: much time in the gray areas of human behavior. I

571
00:31:59,600 --> 00:32:02,640
Speaker 1: know that lot of people have taken note that your characters,

572
00:32:02,840 --> 00:32:07,760
Speaker 1: so many of them are just unlikable or complicated, or

573
00:32:08,280 --> 00:32:10,600
Speaker 1: there are certain things you like in certain things you

574
00:32:10,760 --> 00:32:13,760
Speaker 1: really don't like, so you feel conflicted. And I feel

575
00:32:13,880 --> 00:32:17,480
Speaker 1: very conflicted about Tanya. I really disliked her at the

576
00:32:17,680 --> 00:32:22,000
Speaker 1: end of last season, and now I don't dislike her.

577
00:32:22,040 --> 00:32:26,160
Speaker 1: I feel sorry for her because she's quite competitive pathetic,

578
00:32:26,200 --> 00:32:31,400
Speaker 1: but she's also sort of lovable too. Yeah, well, I

579
00:32:31,720 --> 00:32:36,880
Speaker 1: I mean yeah, I mean well, Jennifer Coolidge is lovable period,

580
00:32:37,160 --> 00:32:41,880
Speaker 1: and and so she brings the loveability for sure. But yeah,

581
00:32:41,880 --> 00:32:44,920
Speaker 1: I do think it's like I, especially the first season,

582
00:32:45,720 --> 00:32:49,239
Speaker 1: you know, I wanted there to be two tracks, which is,

583
00:32:49,440 --> 00:32:52,080
Speaker 1: you know, her as the underdog who's looking for love

584
00:32:52,200 --> 00:32:55,120
Speaker 1: and dealing with the fact that her mom died and

585
00:32:55,240 --> 00:32:57,560
Speaker 1: you know the pain of that, and so on one

586
00:32:57,600 --> 00:32:59,920
Speaker 1: side you're rooting for her, and then there's this other

587
00:33:00,040 --> 00:33:03,840
Speaker 1: story where she's kind of dangling this carrot over this

588
00:33:04,080 --> 00:33:09,720
Speaker 1: other woman's you know, and future and making her feel

589
00:33:09,760 --> 00:33:12,040
Speaker 1: like there's hope for something and then she's kind of

590
00:33:12,040 --> 00:33:14,920
Speaker 1: a flake. And that just seems very true to life

591
00:33:14,960 --> 00:33:17,720
Speaker 1: to for me to some of these women that I've

592
00:33:17,760 --> 00:33:20,400
Speaker 1: met and or you know man or too about just

593
00:33:20,440 --> 00:33:23,120
Speaker 1: like where you know, they see themselves as a victim

594
00:33:23,160 --> 00:33:26,560
Speaker 1: in some sense and and the savior or savior or

595
00:33:26,640 --> 00:33:29,240
Speaker 1: savior yeah, and and they don't see how that they

596
00:33:29,280 --> 00:33:33,160
Speaker 1: can also be victimizing and that they that they yeah,

597
00:33:33,200 --> 00:33:36,400
Speaker 1: that they they have agency and that they are yeah,

598
00:33:36,440 --> 00:33:39,520
Speaker 1: that that they are somehow blowing it. Let let me

599
00:33:39,560 --> 00:33:42,080
Speaker 1: ask you about some of the other characters in kind

600
00:33:42,120 --> 00:33:47,440
Speaker 1: of a rapid fire way. We talked about Mia and Lucia,

601
00:33:48,120 --> 00:33:52,360
Speaker 1: and we talked about Valentina. Um. Let's talk about Porsche

602
00:33:52,600 --> 00:33:56,000
Speaker 1: and I love this discussion online about Porsche's clothes. Have

603
00:33:56,160 --> 00:34:00,440
Speaker 1: you seen this, Mike, that she dresses like good gen

604
00:34:00,560 --> 00:34:04,480
Speaker 1: Z Threat Store, Like nothing really goes together, like it

605
00:34:04,560 --> 00:34:07,120
Speaker 1: doesn't look good or not. I mean, what do you

606
00:34:07,160 --> 00:34:10,600
Speaker 1: think of all that? It's so funny. Well, a lot

607
00:34:10,600 --> 00:34:13,920
Speaker 1: of the credit goes to um, I mean that was

608
00:34:13,960 --> 00:34:17,879
Speaker 1: her character on the page, But Hailey Lou Richardson, who's

609
00:34:17,920 --> 00:34:21,000
Speaker 1: the actress, and then Alex Bavert, who is our costum designer,

610
00:34:21,440 --> 00:34:24,960
Speaker 1: you know, are the true geniuses behind her looks. And

611
00:34:25,120 --> 00:34:30,320
Speaker 1: you know, I'm I'm a little bit like women's fashion

612
00:34:30,440 --> 00:34:33,560
Speaker 1: is not my um go too, but I but I

613
00:34:33,600 --> 00:34:36,799
Speaker 1: but I did weigh in. I did weigh in. I approved,

614
00:34:37,360 --> 00:34:41,080
Speaker 1: I supervised, but I uh but um yeah, I just

615
00:34:41,120 --> 00:34:44,080
Speaker 1: think that you know, to me, Porscha is somebody who

616
00:34:44,160 --> 00:34:46,120
Speaker 1: I see this a lot, and this was something that

617
00:34:46,160 --> 00:34:49,040
Speaker 1: I feel like online I think is the thing that

618
00:34:49,120 --> 00:34:52,080
Speaker 1: I I find interesting is that there's a lot of

619
00:34:52,080 --> 00:34:55,400
Speaker 1: people who are like rich, you know, like bad bad

620
00:34:55,520 --> 00:34:58,000
Speaker 1: rich people. Rich people are terrible, you know, like it's

621
00:34:58,040 --> 00:35:00,400
Speaker 1: this like this kind of like you know that that

622
00:35:00,560 --> 00:35:02,480
Speaker 1: I that I'm allowed to make the show as long

623
00:35:02,520 --> 00:35:04,680
Speaker 1: as I show how bad rich people are. That the

624
00:35:04,719 --> 00:35:06,759
Speaker 1: moral of the story is that rich people are better something.

625
00:35:07,080 --> 00:35:11,160
Speaker 1: And it's like and and and obviously you know there

626
00:35:11,280 --> 00:35:13,960
Speaker 1: is there's truth to that, like a lot of rich

627
00:35:14,040 --> 00:35:16,239
Speaker 1: people are fighting up the world and so like I

628
00:35:16,360 --> 00:35:19,480
Speaker 1: you know, but but I also you know you and

629
00:35:19,520 --> 00:35:23,440
Speaker 1: so like I guess Porsche was like a vehicle to

630
00:35:23,560 --> 00:35:27,560
Speaker 1: explore how she sees in Tanya all of these bad

631
00:35:27,760 --> 00:35:30,040
Speaker 1: character traits and that she you know, if and if

632
00:35:30,080 --> 00:35:33,080
Speaker 1: she had what Tanya had, she would have her life together,

633
00:35:33,120 --> 00:35:35,480
Speaker 1: and she would be she you know, like she would

634
00:35:35,520 --> 00:35:38,160
Speaker 1: be She wouldn't do it better than Tanya. But you

635
00:35:38,239 --> 00:35:41,960
Speaker 1: see how in her own way she's she is kind

636
00:35:41,960 --> 00:35:44,240
Speaker 1: of lost in the In a similar way, she's actually

637
00:35:44,400 --> 00:35:47,759
Speaker 1: kind of a mini me to Tanya and a fat

638
00:35:47,800 --> 00:35:51,120
Speaker 1: Tanya tells, Porsche, you remind me a lot of myself

639
00:35:51,160 --> 00:35:54,160
Speaker 1: when I was younger. But I also think Porsche is

640
00:35:54,320 --> 00:35:58,120
Speaker 1: very gen Z and that she's sort of a little

641
00:35:58,160 --> 00:36:02,480
Speaker 1: bit lost and just doesn't know what she wants to do.

642
00:36:02,719 --> 00:36:05,720
Speaker 1: She doesn't really have any goals. She's trying to figure

643
00:36:05,719 --> 00:36:08,480
Speaker 1: it out. Did that I mean, do you know young

644
00:36:08,560 --> 00:36:13,520
Speaker 1: people like that that kind of helped shape that character? Yeah,

645
00:36:13,560 --> 00:36:15,520
Speaker 1: I do think. I mean again, I don't want to

646
00:36:15,560 --> 00:36:19,200
Speaker 1: get crucified, but I do think I've noticed in this

647
00:36:19,280 --> 00:36:24,560
Speaker 1: younger generation a desire to try on identities and and

648
00:36:24,560 --> 00:36:27,279
Speaker 1: and feel like there's something like, like, I don't know,

649
00:36:27,360 --> 00:36:33,080
Speaker 1: courageous about about identity as a way to express yourself

650
00:36:33,120 --> 00:36:35,880
Speaker 1: through whatever, like through the way you talk about yourself

651
00:36:35,960 --> 00:36:38,200
Speaker 1: or the clothes you wear or whatever. But like, ultimately

652
00:36:38,200 --> 00:36:41,160
Speaker 1: it is very label gazing, and it adds to I

653
00:36:41,239 --> 00:36:46,680
Speaker 1: think adds to um malaise. I think it actually it

654
00:36:46,719 --> 00:36:50,200
Speaker 1: makes your It's like the more you start like yeah,

655
00:36:50,480 --> 00:36:54,840
Speaker 1: like talking about yourself and thinking about yourself along these lines,

656
00:36:54,960 --> 00:36:58,520
Speaker 1: it actually just exacerbates the problem that you're trying to solve.

657
00:36:59,000 --> 00:37:02,320
Speaker 1: So like I think a little bit of Porsche comes

658
00:37:02,360 --> 00:37:04,160
Speaker 1: through and that I mean, I I you know, like

659
00:37:04,520 --> 00:37:06,960
Speaker 1: I don't want to think that I'm totally you know,

660
00:37:07,000 --> 00:37:08,759
Speaker 1: but like she's just like I want this and I

661
00:37:08,760 --> 00:37:11,200
Speaker 1: don't know if I just want to have filled and

662
00:37:11,239 --> 00:37:14,200
Speaker 1: it's like, you know, it's just there's just something about

663
00:37:14,239 --> 00:37:17,759
Speaker 1: that that's just yeah, it's maybe it's yeah, maybe it's

664
00:37:17,800 --> 00:37:20,440
Speaker 1: ages of maybe I'm just like I've become the person

665
00:37:20,520 --> 00:37:22,640
Speaker 1: that makes you. But like I just when I was younger,

666
00:37:22,640 --> 00:37:24,399
Speaker 1: it was just like it's to me, I still feel

667
00:37:24,440 --> 00:37:28,120
Speaker 1: like it's like you mean to like move outside of yourself,

668
00:37:28,200 --> 00:37:31,399
Speaker 1: to like find courage and move outside of your own

669
00:37:31,480 --> 00:37:35,360
Speaker 1: you know, it's like your own navel gazing to really

670
00:37:35,400 --> 00:37:38,200
Speaker 1: then fully developed. You know. It's like if you're just

671
00:37:38,280 --> 00:37:42,200
Speaker 1: always looking inside and doing selfies and then calling yourself

672
00:37:42,239 --> 00:37:45,640
Speaker 1: a different thing, and it's all about the closure where

673
00:37:45,680 --> 00:37:47,640
Speaker 1: you know, it's like that that just feels like that's um,

674
00:37:48,000 --> 00:37:51,400
Speaker 1: that's going to be a dead End Road. So that's Porsche.

675
00:37:52,000 --> 00:37:57,160
Speaker 1: And what about the foursome of Harper, Ethan, Cameron, and Daphne.

676
00:37:57,200 --> 00:37:59,319
Speaker 1: I have to say, I think Oprey Plaza is my

677
00:37:59,400 --> 00:38:03,520
Speaker 1: favorite character in the whole show. I like her perpetual

678
00:38:03,600 --> 00:38:06,400
Speaker 1: state of on we that is now kind of morphed

679
00:38:06,440 --> 00:38:10,120
Speaker 1: into something else all together. And I love what you're

680
00:38:10,160 --> 00:38:16,280
Speaker 1: doing about jealousy with Ethan and uh and and Harper.

681
00:38:17,040 --> 00:38:21,239
Speaker 1: So tell me a little bit about Harper's character. Well,

682
00:38:21,320 --> 00:38:24,239
Speaker 1: I I Aubrey is a friend of mine and I

683
00:38:24,239 --> 00:38:25,920
Speaker 1: wanted to get her in the show, So a little

684
00:38:25,920 --> 00:38:29,120
Speaker 1: bit of it started with just like trying you know,

685
00:38:29,239 --> 00:38:32,640
Speaker 1: Aubrey is a very complicated, interesting person and and but

686
00:38:32,760 --> 00:38:34,759
Speaker 1: she's kind of known for this sort of dead like

687
00:38:35,160 --> 00:38:37,080
Speaker 1: the way she comes in at the beginning is kind

688
00:38:37,080 --> 00:38:39,680
Speaker 1: of like maybe the way people see her or what

689
00:38:39,840 --> 00:38:42,760
Speaker 1: thing they think that she's gonna be if she joins

690
00:38:42,800 --> 00:38:46,919
Speaker 1: the white lotus world, but then start to show these

691
00:38:46,960 --> 00:38:49,920
Speaker 1: other kind of more vulnerable sides and that her toughness

692
00:38:50,000 --> 00:38:53,440
Speaker 1: is a little bit of a front and and um,

693
00:38:53,480 --> 00:38:55,759
Speaker 1: but I liked, you know, like what I was trying

694
00:38:55,800 --> 00:38:58,440
Speaker 1: to do with that whole storyline is, you know, it

695
00:38:58,480 --> 00:39:01,120
Speaker 1: has to do with it kind of what Brad status

696
00:39:01,200 --> 00:39:05,400
Speaker 1: was as far as status, but like with secondly, like

697
00:39:05,920 --> 00:39:09,919
Speaker 1: whether we're always comparing ourselves in our relationship to other

698
00:39:09,960 --> 00:39:12,520
Speaker 1: people's relationships and what they have and what they it

699
00:39:12,560 --> 00:39:14,479
Speaker 1: seems like they you know, like what they do better,

700
00:39:14,640 --> 00:39:18,239
Speaker 1: what they do worse? And how how um? And I

701
00:39:18,320 --> 00:39:20,240
Speaker 1: was kind of playing a little bit at the beginning

702
00:39:20,239 --> 00:39:23,320
Speaker 1: where it's like you think, Okay, here's atar like NPR

703
00:39:23,440 --> 00:39:26,520
Speaker 1: listening like you know, liberal, like you know, like these

704
00:39:26,560 --> 00:39:28,279
Speaker 1: are the good guys that are gonna relate to. And

705
00:39:28,320 --> 00:39:30,799
Speaker 1: then this other couple they're so vacuous and you know,

706
00:39:30,840 --> 00:39:32,879
Speaker 1: it's like but then kind of playing a little bit

707
00:39:32,920 --> 00:39:36,719
Speaker 1: with which is maybe that other couple is like dysfunctional

708
00:39:36,760 --> 00:39:39,200
Speaker 1: and crazy. It's like, well they seem to be having

709
00:39:39,239 --> 00:39:42,200
Speaker 1: more fun, like you know, like that that that maybe

710
00:39:42,480 --> 00:39:44,839
Speaker 1: you know, like maybe it's not as as simple as

711
00:39:44,920 --> 00:39:47,520
Speaker 1: all of that. And and I don't want to give

712
00:39:47,560 --> 00:39:49,920
Speaker 1: away the ending, but yeah, how it all, How it

713
00:39:49,960 --> 00:39:53,040
Speaker 1: all lands is kind of a little bit of insight

714
00:39:53,120 --> 00:39:59,040
Speaker 1: into what I'm trying to I'm not saying, but like, yeah,

715
00:39:59,080 --> 00:40:02,360
Speaker 1: try to reveal something a little bit more unexpected. I

716
00:40:02,360 --> 00:40:04,200
Speaker 1: guess it also seems to be a bit of a

717
00:40:04,239 --> 00:40:10,360
Speaker 1: commentary on tech and finance bros. Mm hmm, yeah, Well

718
00:40:10,440 --> 00:40:17,359
Speaker 1: I just think new money, new money status um competition um,

719
00:40:17,400 --> 00:40:20,960
Speaker 1: that weird sort of dance you play when you're financially

720
00:40:21,080 --> 00:40:24,480
Speaker 1: dependent on someone, which it seems like Cameron is sort

721
00:40:24,520 --> 00:40:29,000
Speaker 1: of uh needs Ethan because he's made a boatload of

722
00:40:29,000 --> 00:40:33,799
Speaker 1: money in tech, right, there's something weird about that dynamic. Well,

723
00:40:33,840 --> 00:40:37,240
Speaker 1: I definitely I as a got a guy, I've been

724
00:40:37,480 --> 00:40:41,600
Speaker 1: privy to lots of conversations over the years. I live

725
00:40:41,719 --> 00:40:44,239
Speaker 1: like next to Brentwood, so there's just like you know,

726
00:40:44,320 --> 00:40:48,560
Speaker 1: the Brentwood country Mark where like lawyers and finance people

727
00:40:48,719 --> 00:40:51,440
Speaker 1: and whatever like people in our my industry or whatever,

728
00:40:51,480 --> 00:40:55,120
Speaker 1: and how they how their buddies. But like even in

729
00:40:55,200 --> 00:40:59,319
Speaker 1: the in every conversation, you just sense this peacocking and

730
00:40:59,360 --> 00:41:01,800
Speaker 1: like they're trying to figure out like where they stand

731
00:41:01,800 --> 00:41:03,600
Speaker 1: as far as who's making them more money, you know,

732
00:41:03,640 --> 00:41:07,080
Speaker 1: who makes like where Yeah, it's uh and so that's

733
00:41:07,120 --> 00:41:11,400
Speaker 1: always very funny to me because I I whatever and

734
00:41:11,400 --> 00:41:14,520
Speaker 1: it's yeah, so yeah, I was kind of playing with

735
00:41:14,640 --> 00:41:16,759
Speaker 1: like yeah, they're friends, but like are they friends? Like

736
00:41:16,960 --> 00:41:20,520
Speaker 1: what are they? Like? Like the competition is so heavy

737
00:41:20,560 --> 00:41:22,840
Speaker 1: that it's just like can they ever really be friends?

738
00:41:22,920 --> 00:41:27,400
Speaker 1: You know? Yeah, I find that whole sort of forsome fascinating,

739
00:41:27,800 --> 00:41:31,120
Speaker 1: and I love f Murray Abraham, which I mean, by

740
00:41:31,160 --> 00:41:33,359
Speaker 1: the way, what a what a feather in your cap

741
00:41:33,520 --> 00:41:36,839
Speaker 1: to get him to be in White Lotus. And then

742
00:41:36,960 --> 00:41:42,319
Speaker 1: you've got from the Sopranos, You've got Michael Imperial. Imperial

743
00:41:42,719 --> 00:41:47,319
Speaker 1: can help me with that, Michael Imperioli. Yeah, and who

744
00:41:47,360 --> 00:41:50,640
Speaker 1: plays his son. And then you have Adam DeMarco who

745
00:41:50,640 --> 00:41:55,480
Speaker 1: plays Albi. Uh so you have these three generations of

746
00:41:55,520 --> 00:42:01,520
Speaker 1: Italian Americans. Yeah, so yeah. Uh well, first of all, yes,

747
00:42:02,040 --> 00:42:07,600
Speaker 1: Murray and Michael are I'm huge I was huge fans

748
00:42:07,640 --> 00:42:12,040
Speaker 1: of prior and then working with them even more so. Uh,

749
00:42:12,160 --> 00:42:15,200
Speaker 1: Murray is like, you know, he's I think he's eighty

750
00:42:15,200 --> 00:42:18,960
Speaker 1: two years old, and he's so still like enamored with

751
00:42:19,040 --> 00:42:24,520
Speaker 1: the process and acting and storytelling and it's inspiring. And

752
00:42:24,560 --> 00:42:27,640
Speaker 1: Michael is one of the most He's in the pantheon

753
00:42:27,680 --> 00:42:32,200
Speaker 1: of like the easiest, most like generous actors I've ever

754
00:42:32,239 --> 00:42:34,600
Speaker 1: worked with. So like, those two are incredible. And then

755
00:42:34,680 --> 00:42:36,799
Speaker 1: of course Adam to Mark was one of the sweetest kids,

756
00:42:36,840 --> 00:42:39,719
Speaker 1: so like they were a great group, but like contextually

757
00:42:39,760 --> 00:42:42,520
Speaker 1: as far as the ideas of that, I just feel like,

758
00:42:42,960 --> 00:42:44,680
Speaker 1: you know, I wanted you know, it's kind of getting

759
00:42:44,680 --> 00:42:48,719
Speaker 1: into male sexuality and desire and male role, you know,

760
00:42:48,800 --> 00:42:51,759
Speaker 1: the role like you know, men's roles and when it

761
00:42:51,800 --> 00:42:54,560
Speaker 1: comes to romance and how they deal with the women,

762
00:42:54,680 --> 00:43:00,120
Speaker 1: and and just voicing the different um generational attitudes in

763
00:43:00,160 --> 00:43:04,319
Speaker 1: a kind of classic way. Uh, and and how they're

764
00:43:04,360 --> 00:43:07,440
Speaker 1: all kind of even though they're all sort of negotiating

765
00:43:07,719 --> 00:43:12,480
Speaker 1: with the new ways of talking about relationships and sex

766
00:43:12,520 --> 00:43:16,719
Speaker 1: and um uh and the interactions with women, that they're

767
00:43:16,760 --> 00:43:21,400
Speaker 1: all kind of trapped in a certain sense. To Derek,

768
00:43:21,560 --> 00:43:24,680
Speaker 1: who works on this podcast, who's one of the producers,

769
00:43:25,080 --> 00:43:28,759
Speaker 1: talked about how this season portrays a wide variety of

770
00:43:28,800 --> 00:43:32,880
Speaker 1: sexual relationships and entanglements and you were just talking about sex,

771
00:43:33,200 --> 00:43:38,280
Speaker 1: just as the opening title sequence portrays uh increasing debauchery

772
00:43:38,280 --> 00:43:41,520
Speaker 1: in the art as the rollicking theme song plays, the

773
00:43:41,560 --> 00:43:44,840
Speaker 1: show itself feels like it's revealing more and more about

774
00:43:44,880 --> 00:43:49,120
Speaker 1: the ways that humans experience their sexuality or suppress it

775
00:43:49,520 --> 00:43:54,320
Speaker 1: or given to it or both. Even these are Derek's observations,

776
00:43:54,320 --> 00:43:57,560
Speaker 1: and I'm curious what you think of that, and sort

777
00:43:57,600 --> 00:44:02,440
Speaker 1: of how you were trying to portray different just different

778
00:44:02,520 --> 00:44:06,640
Speaker 1: kinds of relationships, and for example, you portray sex workers,

779
00:44:07,560 --> 00:44:10,879
Speaker 1: you know, Lucia and Me a very differently than kind

780
00:44:10,920 --> 00:44:17,200
Speaker 1: of what we normally see in TV, books or movies. Well, I,

781
00:44:17,320 --> 00:44:20,080
Speaker 1: you know, with the title sequence, I basically said, you know,

782
00:44:20,160 --> 00:44:23,359
Speaker 1: it should start with these kind of pretty you know,

783
00:44:23,440 --> 00:44:27,200
Speaker 1: like like you're going into a palazzo and the beautiful walls,

784
00:44:27,320 --> 00:44:30,360
Speaker 1: and then you start seeing little things in the corners

785
00:44:30,400 --> 00:44:34,960
Speaker 1: and you realize there's this kind of mischievous or even

786
00:44:35,239 --> 00:44:39,560
Speaker 1: kind of creeper pervy like sexual things that are happening

787
00:44:39,760 --> 00:44:42,799
Speaker 1: in the margins. And then by the end of the

788
00:44:42,840 --> 00:44:46,240
Speaker 1: credit sequence, it's almost like a Bosch painting of like

789
00:44:46,440 --> 00:44:50,240
Speaker 1: just you know in the and where you know, the

790
00:44:50,320 --> 00:44:53,960
Speaker 1: carnality of it and in the desire of it is

791
00:44:53,960 --> 00:44:56,279
Speaker 1: is like front and center. And I felt like that

792
00:44:56,360 --> 00:44:58,920
Speaker 1: with the season two, which is like you start off

793
00:44:58,920 --> 00:45:01,440
Speaker 1: and it's like you a little bit of these repressed

794
00:45:01,480 --> 00:45:05,000
Speaker 1: people trying to like you know, figure out, like you know,

795
00:45:05,280 --> 00:45:08,359
Speaker 1: how to have a good vacation, and that like being

796
00:45:08,400 --> 00:45:11,160
Speaker 1: in the in the in sight to of Sicily and

797
00:45:11,760 --> 00:45:14,279
Speaker 1: in this kind of a little crucible that like the

798
00:45:14,320 --> 00:45:17,359
Speaker 1: desire and you start seeing desire and everyone and it's yeah,

799
00:45:17,400 --> 00:45:20,000
Speaker 1: it becomes a very horny show. And I just felt

800
00:45:20,000 --> 00:45:21,640
Speaker 1: like it was like especially like you know, like and

801
00:45:21,680 --> 00:45:25,520
Speaker 1: as far as like yeah, I mean and I yeah,

802
00:45:26,040 --> 00:45:27,760
Speaker 1: you know, I I don't. I don't think I'll always

803
00:45:28,280 --> 00:45:30,880
Speaker 1: write stories like this. It is not certainly my wheelhouse

804
00:45:30,960 --> 00:45:34,200
Speaker 1: like directing scenes of like intimacy between people and like

805
00:45:34,239 --> 00:45:36,440
Speaker 1: getting people nude and stuff. It's just like I was like,

806
00:45:37,040 --> 00:45:39,200
Speaker 1: you know, like I was like, this is not something

807
00:45:39,239 --> 00:45:43,840
Speaker 1: that I was like, whatever you guys want to do,

808
00:45:43,920 --> 00:45:47,319
Speaker 1: like what's thankfully you know, when you hire actors that

809
00:45:47,400 --> 00:45:50,880
Speaker 1: are exhibitionists, they're often less inhibited than I am, so

810
00:45:50,960 --> 00:45:52,600
Speaker 1: like they're like you want me to take my top off?

811
00:45:53,040 --> 00:45:57,120
Speaker 1: Uh yeah, sure if that's good, You sure that's okay? Yeah,

812
00:45:57,239 --> 00:46:00,840
Speaker 1: So like so yeah, so that was but I and I, um,

813
00:46:00,880 --> 00:46:03,000
Speaker 1: but I do feel like it was like it's fun

814
00:46:03,040 --> 00:46:05,520
Speaker 1: to show I actually think it's fun to show women

815
00:46:05,640 --> 00:46:08,640
Speaker 1: horny horny women, because I feel like that sometimes is

816
00:46:08,719 --> 00:46:11,120
Speaker 1: something that like, you know, a lot of times in

817
00:46:11,120 --> 00:46:16,680
Speaker 1: in in drama, it's like they're either victimized or virginal

818
00:46:16,960 --> 00:46:18,520
Speaker 1: or like I don't know, it's there or is it

819
00:46:18,680 --> 00:46:21,360
Speaker 1: or or it's like this kind of like you know, um,

820
00:46:22,400 --> 00:46:24,520
Speaker 1: like they'll talk it's like sex in the city. It's

821
00:46:24,520 --> 00:46:27,160
Speaker 1: like it's it's very like talky, but like you know

822
00:46:27,280 --> 00:46:30,719
Speaker 1: where you're actually feeling the desire and feeling the um

823
00:46:30,920 --> 00:46:33,200
Speaker 1: you know. It's like and you know, to me, that

824
00:46:33,400 --> 00:46:38,480
Speaker 1: just feels true to life in a way. I guess

825
00:46:38,719 --> 00:46:40,680
Speaker 1: I don't know how else to put it, but anyway,

826
00:46:40,760 --> 00:46:43,239
Speaker 1: so um so yeah, So I just thought it was like,

827
00:46:43,320 --> 00:46:46,080
Speaker 1: let's do sex, let's just go all in and and

828
00:46:46,239 --> 00:46:48,400
Speaker 1: that was kind of the I was like, if we're

829
00:46:48,400 --> 00:46:49,880
Speaker 1: gonna go all in, it's like by the end, you

830
00:46:49,920 --> 00:46:52,480
Speaker 1: just want to feel like, yeah, the animal in them,

831
00:46:52,600 --> 00:46:57,560
Speaker 1: in each of these um human characters. So this is

832
00:46:57,600 --> 00:47:00,000
Speaker 1: the big question. Is there going to be a white

833
00:47:00,000 --> 00:47:03,719
Speaker 1: it is three? Is there going to be a third season? Yes,

834
00:47:03,800 --> 00:47:07,520
Speaker 1: they picked us up for a third season, and yeah

835
00:47:07,680 --> 00:47:11,880
Speaker 1: where Mike, where, Well, I want to go to Asia,

836
00:47:12,360 --> 00:47:14,319
Speaker 1: That's what I think. Look, I mean it feels like,

837
00:47:14,480 --> 00:47:17,680
Speaker 1: you know, you started like America, then you do Europe.

838
00:47:17,840 --> 00:47:19,719
Speaker 1: It feels like the next one would be I don't know,

839
00:47:19,760 --> 00:47:21,840
Speaker 1: I don't know why that feels that. It's just like

840
00:47:21,880 --> 00:47:24,320
Speaker 1: I'm trying to think like like, yeah, where does Katie

841
00:47:24,360 --> 00:47:27,319
Speaker 1: current go on vacation? Where you tell me? Actually, I

842
00:47:27,400 --> 00:47:29,759
Speaker 1: you know what. I ran into you once on vacation

843
00:47:30,239 --> 00:47:33,640
Speaker 1: where I was in Yeah, I was in Berlin, staying

844
00:47:33,680 --> 00:47:37,040
Speaker 1: at a classic old hotel in the middle Berlin, and

845
00:47:37,040 --> 00:47:39,080
Speaker 1: I forget the name of it, and you were staying

846
00:47:39,080 --> 00:47:41,840
Speaker 1: there at the same time with I ran into you.

847
00:47:41,920 --> 00:47:43,880
Speaker 1: I ran I think we were like there the same

848
00:47:43,960 --> 00:47:46,640
Speaker 1: days or whatever, because I ran into you. You were

849
00:47:46,800 --> 00:47:49,160
Speaker 1: very friendly all you seem like you're having a good time.

850
00:47:49,360 --> 00:47:53,919
Speaker 1: I was with my husband, who still good great, and yeah,

851
00:47:53,920 --> 00:47:55,560
Speaker 1: you guys. I don't know if you were there for

852
00:47:55,640 --> 00:47:58,080
Speaker 1: work or vacation or whatever, but you were. We were

853
00:47:58,120 --> 00:48:01,319
Speaker 1: there for vacation. And you know, Mike husband John is

854
00:48:01,360 --> 00:48:05,840
Speaker 1: a huge Survivor nut. I mean, he has seen every season.

855
00:48:06,160 --> 00:48:10,520
Speaker 1: He finds it fascinating, so he loves you from Survivor.

856
00:48:11,200 --> 00:48:13,399
Speaker 1: That's cool. I think it was prior to me during

857
00:48:13,440 --> 00:48:17,560
Speaker 1: Survivor you were it might I think it was what

858
00:48:17,960 --> 00:48:21,880
Speaker 1: didn't I got married in so it was probably it

859
00:48:21,920 --> 00:48:25,040
Speaker 1: was like after that it was like, yeah it was

860
00:48:26,160 --> 00:48:32,120
Speaker 1: sixteen maybe, yeah, I did survive Okay, Well now here

861
00:48:33,480 --> 00:48:35,759
Speaker 1: you seemed very um, Yeah, you seem like you had

862
00:48:36,040 --> 00:48:40,960
Speaker 1: happy energy. I liked I liked you from just the vibe.

863
00:48:41,640 --> 00:48:45,120
Speaker 1: That's so nice? Well is I don't want to spoil

864
00:48:45,200 --> 00:48:47,520
Speaker 1: the finale, but do you think we'll see Tanya in

865
00:48:47,560 --> 00:48:51,839
Speaker 1: the third season? I love well, I love, I love

866
00:48:51,880 --> 00:48:55,360
Speaker 1: writing Tanya and I love I love We're going to Jennifer,

867
00:48:55,520 --> 00:48:59,879
Speaker 1: So definitely could be. You can't tell me. If you tell,

868
00:49:00,000 --> 00:49:03,120
Speaker 1: do you, you'd have to kill me, right, Mike, Well,

869
00:49:03,480 --> 00:49:07,360
Speaker 1: what do you mean you want? Well, you never know.

870
00:49:08,120 --> 00:49:13,319
Speaker 1: Could be I'm not telling you, you know, I don't

871
00:49:13,320 --> 00:49:17,240
Speaker 1: want to ruin it. A huge thank you to my guests,

872
00:49:17,320 --> 00:49:20,120
Speaker 1: Mike White. I imagine you're all tuning in this Sunday,

873
00:49:20,160 --> 00:49:23,759
Speaker 1: December eleven for the finale to find out who makes

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00:49:23,800 --> 00:49:27,600
Speaker 1: it out of the White Lotus alive. If not, whenever

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00:49:27,640 --> 00:49:33,960
Speaker 1: you're listening to this, Happy Benjene. Next Question with Katie

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00:49:34,000 --> 00:49:36,520
Speaker 1: Kirk is a production of I Heart Media and Katie

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00:49:36,560 --> 00:49:41,240
Speaker 1: Kurk Media. The executive producers Army Katie Kuric and Courtney Litz.

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00:49:41,600 --> 00:49:46,400
Speaker 1: The supervising producer is Lauren Hansen. Associate producers Derek Clements

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00:49:46,560 --> 00:49:50,279
Speaker 1: and Adriana Fasio. The show is edited and mixed by

880
00:49:50,360 --> 00:49:54,080
Speaker 1: Derrick Clements. For more information about today's episode, or to

881
00:49:54,120 --> 00:49:56,680
Speaker 1: sign up for my morning newsletter, Wake Up Paul, go

882
00:49:56,800 --> 00:49:59,440
Speaker 1: to Katie Couric dot com. You can also find me

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00:49:59,440 --> 00:50:03,160
Speaker 1: at Katie correct on Instagram and all my social media channels.

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00:50:03,560 --> 00:50:06,560
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