Speaker 1: Welcome to a Cross Generations where the voices of black
Speaker 1: women unite. I'm your host, Tiffany Frost. Tiffany Frost. Tiffany,
Speaker 1: we gather a season elder myself as the middle generation,
Speaker 1: and a vibrant young soul for engaging intergenerational conversations, prepared
Speaker 1: to engage or.
Speaker 2: Hear perspectives that no one else is happy. You know
Speaker 2: how we do.
Speaker 1: We create mess, creates that creates. Hi, everybody, I'm Tiffany
Speaker 1: Cross and I'm your host of Across Generations. All right,
Speaker 1: we have an exciting show coming up, and I want
Speaker 1: to start by saying how important black fathers are in
Speaker 1: our lives. Now listen. I am very aware that the
Speaker 1: media often gets it wrong and portrays this myst of
Speaker 1: the absentee black father, and we know the data does
Speaker 1: not support this. A study supported by the Center for
Speaker 1: Disease Control, members of Congress, and the distinguished gentlemen of
Speaker 1: them Mega Sci Fi Fraternity Incorporated, found that black fathers
Speaker 1: are actually, regardless of marital or socioeconomic status, more involved
Speaker 1: in their children's lives than any other racial group. So
Speaker 1: for all the black dads out there who are doing
Speaker 1: the damn thing, listen, brother, we salute you. So now
Speaker 1: that we've gotten that out of the land, acknowledge that
Speaker 1: I do want to acknowledge that there is another side
Speaker 1: of this coin, and that is how those of us
Speaker 1: who grew up with out fathers for so many reasons
Speaker 1: which we'll can into, we want to have that discussion now.
Speaker 1: For me personally, I was definitely a daddy's girl. My
Speaker 1: father treated me like a princess. But honey, Papa was
Speaker 1: a rolling stone. He and my mother would never marry.
Speaker 1: They obviously say together long enough to produce me and
Speaker 1: then it was over. And I really don't have a
Speaker 1: recollection of them being in a relationship. They had a
Speaker 1: relationship with each other, but they were not in a
Speaker 1: romantic relationship with each other. But my dad was always around.
Speaker 1: In fact, every Christmas Eve he would sleep on our
Speaker 1: sofa so he could be there with me in the
Speaker 1: morning when I opened my gifts. He drove a motorcycle.
Speaker 1: He picked me up whenever I has and he kicked it.
Speaker 1: And he never told me I couldn't go and my
Speaker 1: father were going to a cabaret. This is like an
Speaker 1: adult byob party. He'd take me right along with him,
Speaker 1: whether it was appropriate or not. He works in the
Speaker 1: city of Cleveland in a variety of rolls, painting streets
Speaker 1: and like driving big machines. He was hilarious. He was
Speaker 1: the life of a party and he never had any
Speaker 1: judgment for anyone. He used to give, like you know,
Speaker 1: those guys on the corner, he would give them liquor.
Speaker 1: Women on the corner, he would give them food. He
Speaker 1: was a great dad, but my father had a drinking problem.
Speaker 1: He drank a lot every single day. And while he
Speaker 1: created a loving environment for me, I really can't say
Speaker 1: that it was always appropriate. One of my earliest memories
Speaker 1: is sitting on my father's lap while he was in
Speaker 1: a cipher with his friends and they told him, like, hey, man,
Speaker 1: maybe you should put your daughter to bed. And my
Speaker 1: dad said, my daughter ain't gotta go nowhere. She want
Speaker 1: to sit right here on my lap. She's cool and
Speaker 1: she's going to know everything about life. So when these
Speaker 1: knuckleheads come along and try to play her, she will
Speaker 1: be ready. And they were rolling the weed and my
Speaker 1: dad asked, baby, tell him was this My little five
Speaker 1: year old self said, joint, this was my life. But
Speaker 1: the liquor had him in his grips. I remember him
Speaker 1: vomiting blood. He went in and out of the hospital,
Speaker 1: and so one day he went in and he didn't
Speaker 1: come out. He died of cirrhosis of the liver when
Speaker 1: I was eleven years old, and I feel that absence
Speaker 1: deeply now, just as I did then. So we talk
Speaker 1: a lot about daddy issues, and I want to invite
Speaker 1: you into this discussion, if you're so compelled, participate in
Speaker 1: the discussion as well. In our comments, I do read them,
Speaker 1: but I think it's an important conversation to have whether
Speaker 1: you have your father in your life or not, because
Speaker 1: we're going to talk about the relationship. So let's get
Speaker 1: into it. Doctor Joy Ellington is a mother of three.
Speaker 1: She's sixty four. She di a divorcee who currently works
Speaker 1: in the healthcare field, assisting underprivileged persons obtained health insurance.
Speaker 1: She was born in Alabama, raised in California, and the
Speaker 1: relationship with her father was strained her entire life, and
Speaker 1: even though he was not present, she found herself constantly
Speaker 1: seeking his approval even up until his death two years ago.
Speaker 1: And we also have with us Ariel b. She's a
Speaker 1: thirty three year old medical coder and podcast host of
Speaker 1: this two show passed she has never met her biological
Speaker 1: father and has spent many years searching for him. As
Speaker 1: a mother of five, she finds it very difficult to
Speaker 1: relate to her children who seek a father figure, due
Speaker 1: to her not feeling she really needed that growing up.
Speaker 1: She is, currently, however, realizing how the absence of a
Speaker 1: father may have caused how she navigated her relationship with
Speaker 1: men as an adult, which I think is something we
Speaker 1: can all relate to. So I thank you ladies for
Speaker 1: being here. Thank you, and I'm really excited to have
Speaker 1: this conversation because you know, when the two people in
Speaker 1: your life who are supposed to love you the most,
Speaker 1: your mother and your father, when those relationships are strained
Speaker 1: or go awry, it impacts how we live our entire
Speaker 1: lives as adults.
Speaker 2: So doctor Joy, I will starting with you. Tell me
Speaker 2: what was the relationship with your father. It was interesting
Speaker 2: in that mother and father divorced when I was one,
Speaker 2: so that's very early. And at that time, my mother
Speaker 2: and I moved to California, so I lived there for
Speaker 2: several years before my grandmother got sick. So my relationship
Speaker 2: with my father wasn't in existence. But then when I
Speaker 2: went back to Mobile, then we did have a relationship.
Speaker 2: He would come and pick me up every weekend, something
Speaker 2: similar to what you had with your father. But then
Speaker 2: when I moved back to California, then it began to
Speaker 2: be strained again, somewhat impacted by my stepmother. There were
Speaker 2: some conflicts there. When I would go back to Mobile
Speaker 2: for visits, he was ever present, so it was like
Speaker 2: if we were in each other's company, there was a relationship.
Speaker 2: When I was out of sight, it was like I
Speaker 2: was out of mind. That was the strain that was there.
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, who was responsible for that? He proactively call
Speaker 1: you and see you or as a child, were you
Speaker 1: adult eyes in a way where you were the one
Speaker 1: keeping that relationship alive.
Speaker 2: I would say I was the one that was keeping
Speaker 2: that relationship alive while I was living in California.
Speaker 1: I mean, it's hard to kind of comprehend that as
Speaker 1: a child. But how did that make you feel that?
Speaker 1: I guess did you feel like this relationship was not
Speaker 1: viable on its own if you were not the one
Speaker 1: keeping it alive? And if so, how did that make
Speaker 1: you feel?
Speaker 2: That's very challenging and the reason why I'm saying is
Speaker 2: very challenging. Many times, when people go through a divorce,
Speaker 2: one of the parents or both parents often feed a
Speaker 2: lot of negativity into the relationship, speaking about one parent
Speaker 2: versus another. But my mother didn't do that. My mother
Speaker 2: was very kind and that whatever your father is, he
Speaker 2: will reveal it. And so that was always the message
Speaker 2: in the back of my head that I'm going to
Speaker 2: see who you are, who I am to you, and
Speaker 2: who you are to me. You will demonstrate that. So
Speaker 2: building that relationship or continuously making the conversation that was
Speaker 2: frustrating because I felt that he should have. However, I
Speaker 2: had another savior, per se, and that was my stepfather,
Speaker 2: So he stepped into the role. Though I didn't feel abandoned.
Speaker 2: I had some issues of abandonment of why not me,
Speaker 2: But looking at the dynamics of his relationship with his
Speaker 2: wife and my brothers, that was different.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Can I ask you a question, Yes, your stepfather
Speaker 1: stepped in and loved you appropriately like he was present
Speaker 1: in your life. Oh, by far still is today. I
Speaker 1: feel like sometimes as mothers we remarry hoping that that
Speaker 1: void gets filled. Did that feel the void of your
Speaker 1: father being absent or now? Oh, definitely, because he loved me.
Speaker 1: I'll give you a story, and this is very funny.
Speaker 1: I wanted to go to a dance that was taking
Speaker 1: place at a club, and my mother said, definitely, you
Speaker 1: can't go. And I said, I know what to do.
Speaker 1: I'll go to my stepfather and I'll ask him.
Speaker 2: And he told me. He said no, you can't go.
Speaker 2: And I was so angry and I was so hurt.
Speaker 2: I began to cry, and he just held me and said, baby,
Speaker 2: that's just not the place for you to go. That's
Speaker 2: the It's not that I don't trust you, I don't
Speaker 2: trust them. So he stepped in in a different manner,
Speaker 2: or he stepped in as that father father figure to
Speaker 2: secure me of understanding. It wasn't just a no, it
Speaker 2: was I'm protecting you for the rest of your life.
Speaker 2: How old were you, oh, fourteen.
Speaker 1: That's why I think it's so important to acknowledge that, yes,
Speaker 1: black men are our presents in our lives, whether they're
Speaker 1: a biological father or not. There are fathers who are
Speaker 1: out there doing great things. And I hate this narrative
Speaker 1: of this like absentee black father, because they do exist.
Speaker 1: But I'm happy that you brought this up because your
Speaker 1: fatherhood story is different, I think from doctor Joy. So
Speaker 1: tell me your relationship with your father and your story. Okay,
Speaker 1: So I have a mother and a father, and until
Speaker 1: I was like twenty six, twenty seven, my understanding of
Speaker 1: them being my parents was that they were my parents.
Speaker 1: I didn't find out so I was twenty six that
Speaker 1: was adopted. So that so neither of your parents are
Speaker 1: your biological parent, either one neither one of them. But
Speaker 1: growing up, I did not know that I was adopted
Speaker 1: by black people. I think it was different. I was
Speaker 1: like an Asian household, but everyone was Caucasian. They were
Speaker 1: not yeah, And I mean my grandmother, my mother always
Speaker 1: said Jesus makes everyone different. And when you were in
Speaker 1: a big black family, there are different shades of black.
Speaker 1: So it wasn't uncommon. Some of my cousins have the
Speaker 1: same mother and father and there is one that's lighter
Speaker 1: span complexion and one that's not.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: So I didn't look around it and say anything. We
Speaker 1: were all African American everyone, so I did not question it. Ever,
Speaker 1: I wasn't loved wrong. I wasn't I didn't spend like
Speaker 1: the first five years in foster care. I was adopted
Speaker 1: from birth so within forty eight hours I was there
Speaker 1: in their custody. So it wasn't until I got to
Speaker 1: be twenty six twenty seven then I figured out that
Speaker 1: they were not my biological parents. How did that feel
Speaker 1: at twenty seven, twenty six, twenty seven, to have your
Speaker 1: entire worlds disrupted?
Speaker 2: You know?
Speaker 1: I kind of felt like the family secret. I felt
Speaker 1: like someone or something along the way thought that I
Speaker 1: wasn't capable of understanding that information. I felt like I
Speaker 1: was belittled or maybe thought to not be able to understand,
Speaker 1: kind of like it's too much for her. By then
Speaker 1: twenty six twenty seven, I was married, I had four kids.
Speaker 1: That means every single time I gave birth or went
Speaker 1: to the doctor, I checked out health and that had
Speaker 1: nothing to do with me, and everyone thought that was appropriate.
Speaker 1: So I think that's where I kind of felt slighted.
Speaker 1: I felt like someone should have stepped in and said something,
Speaker 1: even for the health of me or my kids. Anything
Speaker 1: could have happened, and no one thought was the same
Speaker 1: thing to me.
Speaker 2: I don't think about the health aspect of it, yes,
Speaker 2: but I think that there it was depending on the time. Yes,
Speaker 2: I have a brother that's the same he did. He
Speaker 2: was unaware that my stepfather was not his father because
Speaker 2: my stepfather came on board when he was one. That's
Speaker 2: the only daddy that he's ever known. And when that happened,
Speaker 2: when it was revealed that it was he felt slighted,
Speaker 2: such as yourself. I don't know what that feels like
Speaker 2: for me. Watching the dynamics of family, I think that motherhood,
Speaker 2: fatherhood is all who really stepped to the plate to
Speaker 2: perform right. I do understand the biological part because we
Speaker 2: want to know what the truth is, right. But even
Speaker 2: with knowing the truth, the truth to me is who
Speaker 2: really stepped up to the break. That's my feelings about right.
Speaker 2: How was your.
Speaker 1: Adoptive parents? Did you feel connected to them? Did you
Speaker 1: have a good childhood? I felt connected.
Speaker 2: I was.
Speaker 1: I can never say that I wasn't loved or provided
Speaker 1: for or protected. I grew up very well and went
Speaker 1: to good schools. I was in a good neighborhood. I
Speaker 1: went to the best summer camps. I think I was.
Speaker 1: I was fine, And I think that's why a part
Speaker 1: of me always felt guilty looking for my biological family,
Speaker 1: because I wasn't raised bad. I feel like sometimes people
Speaker 1: only think you deserve to look, You deserve to know
Speaker 1: if you grew.
Speaker 2: Up in foster care, or if you were abused.
Speaker 1: Or but I genuinely, out of curiosity, wanted to know
Speaker 1: who I was the facets of me. But my parents
Speaker 1: were great. So you're so your adoptive father, you did
Speaker 1: have a relationship with him, Yeah, say raised me from birth? Okay,
Speaker 1: But you had a good relationship, a healthy relationship relationship
Speaker 1: with him. So then how does not having or I
Speaker 1: guess does not having or knowing even who your biological
Speaker 1: father is. Is that a challenge for you and if so,
Speaker 1: how does that challenge show up in your everyday life.
Speaker 1: It's a challenge for me only because I did not
Speaker 1: I do not today currently know a name, a face, age,
Speaker 1: anything of my biological father. But meeting the woman that
Speaker 1: burst me. So you did meet her biological brother, tell
Speaker 1: us about that. There was a lot of me and her.
Speaker 1: I saw a lot of the facets of nature versus
Speaker 1: nurture in that woman. Things that I could not connect
Speaker 1: with on my biological side that I said as a child,
Speaker 1: there's home videos of me saying as a kid, I
Speaker 1: don't think I'm from here. I was four there was
Speaker 1: no reason why I should say that out loud. And
Speaker 1: it was a lot of my family. Like I said,
Speaker 1: everyone in my family is great aunts, uncle, everyone married,
Speaker 1: no issues, all kids from the same household. When I
Speaker 1: found my biological mother, she's one of a lot. I'm
Speaker 1: not going to lie and say that I have all
Speaker 1: the details. It's more than eight And I figured out
Speaker 1: that there's not one woman that's married. Every woman has
Speaker 1: multiple children with different fathers. The facets of you know,
Speaker 1: domestic violence or divorces high. I felt like I carried
Speaker 1: something genetic that wasn't seen in the home that I
Speaker 1: was grown up in. But I saw a lot of
Speaker 1: the facets that I think in my adopted household were
Speaker 1: seen as unruly or rebellious, or loudspoken or sexually inquisitive
Speaker 1: at an early age. Was there in that biological family's household.
Speaker 1: And it was so normal that I was able. It
Speaker 1: was like a sheep shedding its like I'd never been
Speaker 1: looked at and so understood than when I sat in
Speaker 1: that lady's house. That raises a question of nature versus nurture.
Speaker 1: Did you ask her about your father? I did, and
Speaker 1: what she said. Now, when I found out I was adopted.
Speaker 1: It was not in the best circumstances. It was told me,
Speaker 1: you have mistake to this stay currently. I was never
Speaker 1: supposed to know. So in a safety security posit deposit
Speaker 1: box downtown, if my parents were to pass or pass together,
Speaker 1: that boxes to be destroyed. I was never supposed to
Speaker 1: know that was the intent.
Speaker 2: With time.
Speaker 1: My father told me, how do you ever tell the
Speaker 1: child you prayed for and that you love that she's
Speaker 1: not yours? When do I sit you down and look
Speaker 1: you in the face and tell you you're not mine?
Speaker 1: He's like, I never thought about it again. Once I
Speaker 1: signed that paper and I raised you, I never it
Speaker 1: never crossed my mind again. You were mine, I was yours,
Speaker 1: and we life went on. I found in biological mother
Speaker 1: on Facebook, so wonderful network were you put in people's
Speaker 1: first and last name? Is not like Instagram where people
Speaker 1: change their hashtags. So I found her on there, and
Speaker 1: all I had was a safety deposit box of pictures
Speaker 1: of children because I'm a product of two teenage children,
Speaker 1: the same way my child was a product of two
Speaker 1: teenage children. But no one in my adopted family had
Speaker 1: ever had teenage pregnancy ever, So yeah, I only had
Speaker 1: a picture of a young girl tenth grade and a
Speaker 1: young boy tenth grade. But I'm looking for them twenty
Speaker 1: seven years later with a childhood school OCPS picture. I
Speaker 1: did find the gentleman online, the same way I found
Speaker 1: a biological mother through Facebook. He told me that he
Speaker 1: carried the shame of me for a long time that
Speaker 1: giving me up for adoption. His family at that time
Speaker 1: actually had to move because you know, you were supposed
Speaker 1: to have raised the kids you birth, and they chose
Speaker 1: a different option. So he said, no disrespect to you,
Speaker 1: but I'd like to get a DNA test. I've never known.
Speaker 1: I knew she birthed a child. I knew you didn't stay,
Speaker 1: but I don't know. And I was in tenth grade
Speaker 1: and this is a grown man now, So who am
Speaker 1: I to say?
Speaker 2: Oh?
Speaker 1: No, just love me for who are no? I need
Speaker 1: to know too. I was just as lost as he was.
Speaker 1: We went to there's a DNA center in Orlando, Florida.
Speaker 1: He said, I'll pay for your test, and I'll pay
Speaker 1: for mine. He paid for himself, and he went first.
Speaker 1: That day that he went, I had to work, so
Speaker 1: I went the next day, checked myself in. I asked
Speaker 1: if my test was already paid for. The lady at
Speaker 1: the clerk desk confirmed that it was. I sat down,
Speaker 1: I let them swab me, and I sat there, and
Speaker 1: then in two weeks I got an email and none
Speaker 1: of our genes matched. So he was not your biological father. Wow,
Speaker 1: so we still don't know who your biological father?
Speaker 2: Now? Did you go back and have to confront your
Speaker 2: mother with this info?
Speaker 1: The only thing is, it's hard to confront someone I
Speaker 1: don't have relationship with, like long term.
Speaker 2: It's hard for me to push. I feel like I
Speaker 2: can push.
Speaker 1: My mother that raised me because I'm like, well, we
Speaker 1: were raised with good standards and yeah, honesty of the
Speaker 1: best policy. It's hard for me to lay who I
Speaker 1: am on someone, even though I know she loved me,
Speaker 1: and I know she looked for me, and it was
Speaker 1: a teenage pregnancy, It's hard for me to push her.
Speaker 1: She was very adamant that that's the only person I
Speaker 1: slept with, grade she had no other answer. M and
Speaker 1: I thought it was always a little weird, a little eerie.
Speaker 1: I did do the whole genetics thing that's online with
Speaker 1: the apps the DNA and me a DNA and whatever,
Speaker 1: and my uh, it says that I'm related to a
Speaker 1: lot of people with the last name that is in
Speaker 1: her family, so I kind of stopped.
Speaker 2: To a lot of people in her family.
Speaker 1: The last name is similar to a lot of people
Speaker 1: that are related on like her stepdad's side of the family.
Speaker 1: So that made me pause. I didn't know if I
Speaker 1: was going to make her relift something. I didn't know
Speaker 1: if this was a stepfather, a step brother, and I
Speaker 1: let it go for the mental health of a woman
Speaker 1: that I felt like at that time had changed her
Speaker 1: life and was doing good for herself and she was
Speaker 1: happy with just finding me, and I kind of just
Speaker 1: left it.
Speaker 2: It was weird. I always thought it was a little eerie.
Speaker 2: The last name was due match.
Speaker 1: Like they'll say this genetics of your DNA is really
Speaker 1: to people, and it will say mother's side, and mother's
Speaker 1: side has all the last names of her side. Then
Speaker 1: it will say father's last name. Let's just throw out Johnson,
Speaker 1: but that Johnson's side, let's say, is just from the
Speaker 1: stepfather's side.
Speaker 2: So that gave me pause. And I don't want incestuous.
Speaker 1: It could have been a child was touched and I
Speaker 1: just didn't I just didn't want to, so it's possible
Speaker 1: that you are the product of sexual abuse correct and
Speaker 1: potentially incestuous sexual abuse food a stepfather.
Speaker 2: Correct.
Speaker 1: That is a lot to Carrie as somebody how knowing that,
Speaker 1: How did that show up in your I mean, you're
Speaker 1: finding us out at twenty six and twenty seven year divorce.
Speaker 1: It was Yeah, it was just hard. I just felt
Speaker 1: like I didn't want I never got a yes or
Speaker 1: no answer. I don't even know if that is correct. R.
Speaker 1: I didn't want to peel back trauma for someone who
Speaker 1: I was taken from her. Her mother said absolutely not.
Speaker 1: I have seven kids. I'm struggling to feed these seven.
Speaker 1: You will birth her because that was their face and
Speaker 1: the really, but she will not stay here. So she
Speaker 1: had that trauma, She had a lot of me being
Speaker 1: taken from her. They said, oh, we're just gonna go
Speaker 1: check her vitals, and I never went back to her room.
Speaker 2: This was a tenth second.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I didn't want to tear her down because I
Speaker 1: feel like, no matter what she went through for me
Speaker 1: to get there, I lived a good life and and
Speaker 1: a part of me just wanted to be grateful for that.
Speaker 2: Now you brought up something, I'm gonna step back a
Speaker 2: little bit because I've gone through that this this year. Yeah,
Speaker 2: And it's interesting where you have daddy issues past their death.
Speaker 2: My father passed two years ago. A wow, but my
Speaker 2: sorry for that. Stepmother required a dns A test two
Speaker 2: years ago. I had to take it this year. I'm
Speaker 2: sixty four years old. You went and got swabbed down
Speaker 2: at sixty? Why why did she want that? Why the inheritance?
Speaker 2: Not that I know of. She said that she needed
Speaker 2: that for peace of mine. She did not believe that
Speaker 2: you were correct? And is that what led to the
Speaker 2: challenging relationship? You know, you're the distance that you guys
Speaker 2: had with each other. I think that it's part of it.
Speaker 2: I think that it's part of it. How long was
Speaker 2: she married to your father? Oh? Over fifty some years. Okay,
Speaker 2: so she was there for a good Oh yeah, okay.
Speaker 2: She came on war when I was about eight years old.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, no, that's young. Yeah, so knowing all the dynamics.
Speaker 2: But talking about daddy issues, right, So, when there is absenteeism,
Speaker 2: you need to kind of roll things back to evaluate
Speaker 2: why is there absenteeism? And for me, I believe that
Speaker 2: his engagement when I was present of being very He
Speaker 2: was very present, but when I was out of sight
Speaker 2: out of mind, had some to do with the dynamics
Speaker 2: of his household. It wasn't just totally relying upon him.
Speaker 2: So when we talk about daddy issues, it is holling back,
Speaker 2: what are all of the factors that could contribute to that?
Speaker 2: And for me thinking about this at sixty four passed
Speaker 2: my father's passing my biological father. Now you're being required
Speaker 2: to take a DNA test. That's very revealing much. Can
Speaker 2: I ask you if you took it? I did, you didn't.
Speaker 2: I wasn't going to. Okay, well, let me say it.
Speaker 2: I wasn't going to that. I was going to.
Speaker 1: That.
Speaker 2: I wasn't going to again. And it was primarily because
Speaker 2: my stepmother and I my stepmother literally cursed me out
Speaker 2: about an issue and recently, yeah, and because of that,
Speaker 2: I said, okay, I'm not going to take the test.
Speaker 2: But then from my stepmother and my father's relationship, I
Speaker 2: have two brothers, and one of the brothers asked me
Speaker 2: if I would take the test, and because of him,
Speaker 2: I said I would because to me, my role in
Speaker 2: life is to be who I am. I'm the daughter,
Speaker 2: I'm the sister, and if there's something that I should do,
Speaker 2: I will the same way as it was. I was
Speaker 2: going to take the test with my stepmother. But then
Speaker 2: once you curse me out for no reason, okay, I
Speaker 2: have no reason to really oblige you. Yeah, you know.
Speaker 1: It's interesting because, first of all, I'm sorry that you
Speaker 1: had this experience with your stepmother. My father was never
Speaker 1: married to my mother. Like I said, they stayed along
Speaker 1: to make me and that was it. But my father
Speaker 1: did eventually marry a woman when I was like five
Speaker 1: years old, my stepmother, Sharon, and.
Speaker 2: We got along great.
Speaker 1: I mean I was a brat, don't get me wrong,
Speaker 1: because my father let me do whatever. She'd be trying to, like,
Speaker 1: you know, play Susie h homemaker and make these meals
Speaker 1: so they didn't have kids yet, and she'd have a
Speaker 1: balance medal with vegetables and I'm like, oh, I want it,
Speaker 1: you know, and my name okay, pizza, you know, and
Speaker 1: she was trying to bring water. I remember when I
Speaker 1: was little, when the song We Are the World came out,
Speaker 1: that was like my song. Okay, I had the little
Speaker 1: forty five For the young people who don't know, that's
Speaker 1: a little tiny album.
Speaker 2: It looked like a CD. Y'all might not even know
Speaker 2: what the CD is anymore this point.
Speaker 1: But I used to put this album on and we
Speaker 1: had a closet that you stepped up in and I
Speaker 1: would hide behind her clothes as soon as that first
Speaker 1: Stanza came out, and I would just like, I remember
Speaker 1: you can yes, my father. She's like, you know, Thompson.
Speaker 1: She's like in the closet, like messing up my clothes.
Speaker 1: And my dad said, oh, don't worry about take care
Speaker 1: of it and move all her clothes to a different
Speaker 1: clossal so you can carry always keep my stage singing
Speaker 1: we are in the world. And she still found it
Speaker 1: in herself to love me take care of me. I mean,
Speaker 1: he would let me eat whatever. I would get sick
Speaker 1: and she would come clean it up and everything. So
Speaker 1: I was blessed to have that relationship with her, which
Speaker 1: I think helped me have a good relationship with my father,
Speaker 1: but to have that relationship disrupted with his untimely death
Speaker 1: at a point, and I remember the night that my father,
Speaker 1: or the last time I saw him conscious. He said
Speaker 1: to me, he's like I'm dying and he was vomiting blood.
Speaker 1: And I mean just it was awful, and I knew
Speaker 1: I just didn't want to be there. I didn't want
Speaker 1: to see it, you know, I wanted to leave, And
Speaker 1: so I left, and the next morning the ambulance was
Speaker 1: there carrying him out. We went to the hospital. And
Speaker 1: so a part of me wonders, like, I wonder, had
Speaker 1: I stayed within the house with my dad? You know,
Speaker 1: I didn't at this point he was living with another
Speaker 1: woman who wasn't my stepmother. But I was like, I
Speaker 1: wonder if I stayed in that house with him that night,
Speaker 1: what he may have said to me, you know, what
Speaker 1: would he have imparted some dying wisdom on me? Or
Speaker 1: what I've been traumatized by what I saw. I don't know,
Speaker 1: But I think the commonality of all of us, even
Speaker 1: though you were blessed enough to have your adoptive father
Speaker 1: raise you, you're blessed enough to have a step dad
Speaker 1: come in your life. So again, shout out to black dads.
Speaker 1: I think the commonality, though, is there was our biological
Speaker 1: fathers were not around for a point in our life,
Speaker 1: and I just want or how that has impacted our
Speaker 1: relationships with our peers, with our lovers, but most importantly,
Speaker 1: with ourselves. And I will say for me, I definitely
Speaker 1: had a pin. When I was younger, I was went
Speaker 1: to day older men. I don't mean like inappropriate, like
Speaker 1: I was a teenager dating adults. I mean like in
Speaker 1: my twenties. Most of them I dated when in their thirties.
Speaker 2: Okay. I definitely.
Speaker 1: Liked men who you know, were kind of in charge,
Speaker 1: you know, like very similar characteristics to my dad. And
Speaker 1: I'll tell you, guys, I'm telling all my business and
Speaker 1: I'm like sharing my therapy session. But I remember I
Speaker 1: was talking to my therapist had me write down what
Speaker 1: characteristics I would like in a parent at different points
Speaker 1: in my life. I recommend people do that. It was
Speaker 1: really illuminating because I wrote about what kind of characteristics
Speaker 1: I want as a toddler, you know, as a seven
Speaker 1: year old, eight year old, as the thirteen year old,
Speaker 1: as a sixteen year old. And I wrote all these down,
Speaker 1: and I was dating this man, and months prior she
Speaker 1: had asked me, why do you like this man?
Speaker 2: You know?
Speaker 1: And I wrote down all the things I liked about him,
Speaker 1: and she said to me, Tiffany, the things that you
Speaker 1: wished you had and a parent, you reference them as
Speaker 1: things you like in this man. And she said to me,
Speaker 1: you are looking for a parent, not a partner, and
Speaker 1: a partner cannot be your parent. And I, at this
Speaker 1: big age, am still struggling with that because I's so
Speaker 1: caught up in who I am. So I set all
Speaker 1: my business today. How has the relationship with your father
Speaker 1: impacted the relationship that you have with our counterparts black
Speaker 1: men and your relationships with men.
Speaker 2: That's I like the question. It was very impactful for
Speaker 2: me in regards to my marriage. I feel that men
Speaker 2: have a very special place in their children's life. I
Speaker 2: think they're very important, of course, to the partnership between
Speaker 2: the adults. But when I married my husband, it was
Speaker 2: a little sketchy, and I'm saying sketchy because we were
Speaker 2: slated to get married. Then I did what I shouldn't
Speaker 2: have done, and then I got pregnant, so then I
Speaker 2: moved the wedding up. So some would possibly call him
Speaker 2: a shotgun yet, but it really you were already slated
Speaker 2: to be married, but because I moved the wedding date up,
Speaker 2: then his heart began to fainter. I'm talking about my
Speaker 2: ex husband, but we were married for almost twenty five
Speaker 2: years out of that, I would not have stayed the
Speaker 2: entire time. He was not abusive, the best partner for
Speaker 2: my children I could ever have. Okay, for me, he
Speaker 2: didn't love me. He liked me a lot, but he
Speaker 2: didn't love me. He loved me now, but I'm not
Speaker 2: his wife, right would say he loved you. Oh, I'll
Speaker 2: use his words. I love you, but I'm not in
Speaker 2: love with you. Yeah, so it was the same thing. Yes,
Speaker 2: were you in love with him? Yes? And no. I
Speaker 2: think I was more so in love with the fact
Speaker 2: of keeping my family together. I wanted my children. That
Speaker 2: was why we stayed. But mind you talking about fathers,
Speaker 2: my children loved their father. He filled a gap that
Speaker 2: needed to be filled. It was a promise that I
Speaker 2: made to myself. There were a couple of promises. One was,
Speaker 2: I'll never just have one child because I stayed the
Speaker 2: only child for eleven years. That's a lonely life, you know,
Speaker 2: that makes me feel good? And then not only was
Speaker 2: that was the first one, and the second one was
Speaker 2: I was going to fight to keep my family together
Speaker 2: for my children's sake. So you know, there's a description
Speaker 2: says there's no greater love than the love where you
Speaker 2: lay down your life for a friend, where my children,
Speaker 2: for me were my friends. So I would sacrifice me
Speaker 2: similar to some things that you may be familiar with,
Speaker 2: you know, was it the right thing to do? Would
Speaker 2: I do it again? Definitely, because I I would not.
Speaker 2: When I look at my children, they're who they are
Speaker 2: and how they are, I would not change it, give it.
Speaker 2: Our home was very peaceful and if you asked my children,
Speaker 2: what would they call it? It was just a wholesome place.
Speaker 2: Everyone came to our home. My children went into shock
Speaker 2: along with me when we went for a divorce because
Speaker 2: we never displayed. My children never saw us argue. We
Speaker 2: would have deep conversations, but that was still behind closed doors,
Speaker 2: so it was not a lot of a turmoil that
Speaker 2: went on in our house. My ex husband, I love him.
Speaker 2: I still love him to Thursday because he is a
Speaker 2: very good person.
Speaker 1: Did you know when you got married him that he
Speaker 1: didn't love you or that he was not in love
Speaker 1: with you?
Speaker 2: No? Not really. During our wedding it was a very
Speaker 2: exciting time for he and I And I'll see it
Speaker 2: this way. I showed up expecting him not to show up.
Speaker 2: He showed up expecting me not to show up. That
Speaker 2: was one too, was the fact that while the minister
Speaker 2: was actually during our vows, we were kind of arguing
Speaker 2: right in front, but not a a It was a
Speaker 2: big reality ye right. It wasn't a bitter argument, but
Speaker 2: it was an argument of what are you doing here?
Speaker 2: What are you doing here? You know? Really? And that
Speaker 2: kind of friendship that we still home. Well, I think
Speaker 2: that's beautiful. I think there's something there though, to be
Speaker 2: with somebody who wasn't in love with you and the
Speaker 2: through line of the relationship the distance you had with
Speaker 2: your biological father, because that is the first relationship that
Speaker 2: we have with a member of the opposite sex, and
Speaker 2: it determines so much. How do you think, Well, I
Speaker 2: mean you kind of found out when you were already
Speaker 2: an adult, but just how did the relationship with your
Speaker 2: adoptive father, who was there for you and supportive, and
Speaker 2: then finding out you don't know who your biological father is,
Speaker 2: how has that impacted your choice in partnership.
Speaker 1: I can say that a lot of people look at
Speaker 1: daddy issues as an issue. An issue is a bad thing,
Speaker 1: An issue is something you should see help for, talk
Speaker 1: to a therapist for you're the problem until you get
Speaker 1: that little kink worked out. It'll all always be you.
Speaker 1: I need people to know that daddy issues can come
Speaker 1: from healthy father daughter relationships. Abs It was healthy. It
Speaker 1: was so healthy to the fact that when my mother,
Speaker 1: when my husband didn't do shit, I called my dad. Yeah,
Speaker 1: my dad came over and I sat down, and my
Speaker 1: dad would fix everything. To the point that sometimes I
Speaker 1: didn't even lean on my husband, probably the way I
Speaker 1: should have, because how I was grown and raised and fed.
Speaker 1: And if I have a problem, you call your dad,
Speaker 1: and my husband's at work. The toilet is broken, now
Speaker 1: my dad's at home. I'm going to call my dad.
Speaker 1: I want to even fill them in sometimes or sometimes,
Speaker 1: like you rung up, I really resonated when you said
Speaker 1: you and your husband didn't argue in front of your kids,
Speaker 1: and if you had serious or in depth or needed conversation,
Speaker 1: it was done behind closed doors.
Speaker 2: That is me to a picture.
Speaker 1: I have never, to this day at thirty three, ever
Speaker 1: seen my parents argue. Ever, so when I experienced it
Speaker 1: in my marriage, I was like, oh my god, I
Speaker 1: have to fix this.
Speaker 2: It's me. This never happened to my parents. They never argued.
Speaker 2: They did.
Speaker 1: I just didn't see it. But because I didn't see it,
Speaker 1: people think ignorance is bliss, and it's not. If I
Speaker 1: would have maybe seeing my parents argue in front of
Speaker 1: me and handle it in an appropriate way, with positive
Speaker 1: language and not calling each other out of their name,
Speaker 1: maybe I wouldn't have developed the fix it mentality like
Speaker 1: I have to be a better wife. My mother has
Speaker 1: to be a better wife than me because she didn't
Speaker 1: pull my father on a character like this, but she
Speaker 1: did it right.
Speaker 2: It was just behind closed doors, so I didn't see it.
Speaker 1: So I think that's so key what you said, because
Speaker 1: I do think a lot of parents and the healthy relationships.
Speaker 2: It's like, let's take this, but it's okay to see conflict.
Speaker 1: Okay, yeah, it is normal.
Speaker 2: That's how I handle it as a wife, and I
Speaker 2: never saw it. I might as well. I had a
Speaker 2: mom and dad.
Speaker 1: I never there were facets of a marriage, even though
Speaker 1: I was a product in their house and raised and
Speaker 1: love and appropriately.
Speaker 2: I never saw it. But that's just the thing. It
Speaker 2: wasn't that I didn't want to do that. My husband
Speaker 2: didn't want to argue kids exactly. I felt that it
Speaker 2: should always be. Now i'll take you another step or
Speaker 2: into a different layer. And this layer is after we
Speaker 2: moved to California and then we moved back because my
Speaker 2: grandmother became sick. Lived with my grandparents, my maternal grandparents.
Speaker 2: But my grandfather was an alcoholic, but he was a
Speaker 2: gentle alcoholic. Yep, same with my dad. With my dad now,
Speaker 2: he and my grandmother would argue all the time in
Speaker 2: the bed. So I saw that, so it didn't bother me.
Speaker 2: Going back to what you're saying about having that actually
Speaker 2: exhibited in front of you, what that really means and
Speaker 2: what it meant to me was you could have the
Speaker 2: argument and okay, good night, maybe good night or no
Speaker 2: good nights in the morning because I saw my grandmother
Speaker 2: get up in the morning and make his breakfast and
Speaker 2: they may argued half the night. Yeah, but they're in
Speaker 2: the bed together. So the conflict resolution, how do you
Speaker 2: do that? You stay in there? Right. That was the
Speaker 2: other reason why I felt that I could do it
Speaker 2: all over again, because I saw that it was not
Speaker 2: an issue.
Speaker 1: You know, I it makes me think about I'll try
Speaker 1: to just a little bit to sex well because I think,
Speaker 1: you know, as a young woman, and you know, my
Speaker 1: father passed away and I had to go through my teenage years.
Speaker 1: And I remember my father. Like I said, my father
Speaker 1: was from around the way and but cool. Like everybody
Speaker 1: loved my dad. He was the life of the party.
Speaker 1: But he certainly did raise me a certain way to
Speaker 1: conduct myself, a certain way. I was untouchable. I was
Speaker 1: this princess, you know, and I was only to be
Speaker 1: touched by like the most high quality person who could ever.
Speaker 1: And so I did go through life and I never,
Speaker 1: even at this middle age, I have never separated sex
Speaker 1: and love, And so I wonder if it's that I've
Speaker 1: never separated sex and love, or do I equate sex
Speaker 1: with love, Like do I want this connection so badly
Speaker 1: that I convince myself maybe I love you and have
Speaker 1: this relationship that I'm really yearning for. Since my therapist
Speaker 1: told me you're looking for a parent, not a partner,
Speaker 1: I'm like, Oh, I wonder if I'm really searching for
Speaker 1: something deeper. I haven't quite worked that out in my
Speaker 1: mind yet. Y'all are my therapist for either time. Yeah,
Speaker 1: but I wonder how even in our physical relationships with
Speaker 1: our counterparts, like I've never been able to do like
Speaker 1: a casual sex relationship, you know, because I think about
Speaker 1: my father's been gone, you know, in the arms of Jesus.
Speaker 1: Some would say for you know, over thirty five years.
Speaker 1: But I do think about like him watching me, and
Speaker 1: like men I deal with, I'm like, will my father
Speaker 1: be good with me? Rocking with you?
Speaker 2: You know? What?
Speaker 1: Are you the kind of man who my father will
Speaker 1: be proud to hand over his daughter too? And it
Speaker 1: makes me question myself sometimes with these men, how does
Speaker 1: it show up for you? Like when you deal with men,
Speaker 1: what is your thought process as it relates to your dad?
Speaker 1: I think when you get that princess treatment, it is
Speaker 1: hard to separate sex from love. For me, very similar
Speaker 1: to what you said, I would be a terrible prostitute.
Speaker 1: I can't. I can't do it. Yahause some people are like, oh, oh,
Speaker 1: it's a tool. It's not to me now, it's not
Speaker 1: a tool. I don't think it's a game. Everyone I've
Speaker 1: ever slept with I loved them, Yeah, and it was
Speaker 1: supposed to be this For everything. I equate sex with love.
Speaker 1: I definitely equate children with love like it was my
Speaker 1: dad didn't leave, yeah, so why would you leave? And
Speaker 1: I buried your children and you're still going to leave
Speaker 1: like it was like a shock, like it was something
Speaker 1: I really had to work through. And sex goes both ways.
Speaker 1: If a man thinks that sex is not equivalent to love,
Speaker 1: which I sadly have figured that out out, it doesn't
Speaker 1: matter how I feel. I know that I struggle separating
Speaker 1: sex with love very bad, and I don't know if
Speaker 1: that's a good thing or a bad thing.
Speaker 2: But I will not, I have not, I probably will never.
Speaker 1: I have girlfriends all the time that are just like, oh,
Speaker 1: what are they say, knock the dust off, just do it.
Speaker 1: That sounds terrible. Yeah, that sounds sounds val. It doesn't
Speaker 1: sound terrible in the sense of I'm judging women. I'm
Speaker 1: actually a little envious that you can own your sexuality
Speaker 1: that way and just use it when you want to,
Speaker 1: right or like you're not even you're not trying to
Speaker 1: resolve some daddy issue, making like maybe you just have
Speaker 1: agency over your sexuality and this is what you like
Speaker 1: to do for me. It is definitely very caught up
Speaker 1: in the relationship I was my father and being the
Speaker 1: kind of woman that he would be proud of today
Speaker 1: just as he was then. But also this is innate
Speaker 1: value that takes myself more right than anyone else because
Speaker 1: he taught me like my father, I'm telling you, I
Speaker 1: would be a very adult environments write on my dad's lap.
Speaker 1: They passing a weed around and I'm sitting right here,
Speaker 1: and my father was like, you can't even come speak
Speaker 1: to my day.
Speaker 2: You have to afford me respect from protection, even my uncles.
Speaker 2: I'm proud of you all.
Speaker 3: Thank you, Doctor Joying telling our seven elder like, what
Speaker 3: role like, how do you conflate the relationship you have
Speaker 3: with men sexually with the kind of absentee father that
Speaker 3: you have.
Speaker 2: I do not. I do not for you. I understand
Speaker 2: the integration. I do believe in love and sex and
Speaker 2: how they really it. This is I have to take
Speaker 2: a breath there because I remember I remember loving my
Speaker 2: husbands much. This is this is really I know I was,
Speaker 2: but it was, but I really just wanted to melt
Speaker 2: into his body. Yes, yes, that was the love. That
Speaker 2: was just how deep it was for me. However, there's
Speaker 2: the flip side, because I can separate the two, where
Speaker 2: you may not be able to separate the two. I
Speaker 2: can't work on it. I grew up in a family
Speaker 2: with many men. I had a great aunt that had
Speaker 2: seven sons, and I used to. I lived my life
Speaker 2: with them, so I learned the mill's role and their conversation,
Speaker 2: and it really made me more masculine in my thinking
Speaker 2: and feelings than feminine. It's hard for me to cry. Wow,
Speaker 2: I don't mind, but it is. It's very challenging for
Speaker 2: me to cry. I can cry right now. I'm not
Speaker 2: that sensitive. Yeah, But at the same token, boy, I
Speaker 2: have some stories.
Speaker 1: Yoursion tolerated as a child. When you cried. Did someone
Speaker 1: tell you to be quiet? You're doing too much?
Speaker 2: Suck it up? No?
Speaker 1: No, no, But just hanging around seven boy cousins made
Speaker 1: you not cry?
Speaker 2: Oh, because I was never going to be that biggie woman.
Speaker 2: I don't need.
Speaker 1: You, but but I don't need you. Well, okay, so
Speaker 1: you're talking about the boy cousins. What I'm hearing is
Speaker 1: your father was not there consistently, and that you learn
Speaker 1: to sell soothe and say, you know what, my father, right,
Speaker 1: I am the person maintaining this relationship is not viable
Speaker 1: without me, so I will teach myself. I don't need you,
Speaker 1: but our biological way that we're connected to our parents
Speaker 1: being the lawyers, something I would never.
Speaker 2: Wisdom.
Speaker 1: But this is what I'm hearing as an outsider is
Speaker 1: that you self sued and taught yourselves. I'm a g
Speaker 1: you know, and I am going to see somebody else will.
Speaker 1: But but also I'm going to take control of this relationship.
Speaker 1: I will force you to see me. I will maintain
Speaker 1: this relationship your life, whether you're maintaining it or not.
Speaker 1: I will defiantly be your daughter, despite you allowing your
Speaker 1: wife your stepmother. Yeah, and I'd rather through line. It's
Speaker 1: not so much the boy cousins. It's this is this
Speaker 1: is what I've learned through the relationship with my father
Speaker 1: and how I relate to others, but again, how I
Speaker 1: relate to myself. I will not allow myself to feel
Speaker 1: this pain weak because I'm going to self suit and
Speaker 1: it's not Yes, it's not really the weakness. It's it's
Speaker 1: more so I am very viable, just as you are.
Speaker 2: But I'm not going to be dependent on you validating me.
Speaker 2: I must validate myself. Now. If you validate me too, oh,
Speaker 2: we really have something going on. But if you don't,
Speaker 2: I am not going because normally what happened when people
Speaker 2: are seeking that validation from someone else, be it from
Speaker 2: a father or whoever you're weakened, you've given the control
Speaker 2: of your life to someone else, to their discression, to
Speaker 2: their discretion. Absolutely, I can't afford to do that because
Speaker 2: I only have this what one life, I only have
Speaker 2: this one second, I only have this one day. With
Speaker 2: all of that being said, I'm going to validate me. Now.
Speaker 2: That does not mean I don't have a yearning or
Speaker 2: a desire. I do, but I do not let the
Speaker 2: desire dictate my feelings.
Speaker 1: I think that's so beautiful because you can go through
Speaker 1: you not having a present father, biological in your household
Speaker 1: every day, and that's that's that's that's that split where
Speaker 1: it's like it can either go this way or it
Speaker 1: can either go this way. Not saying that how you
Speaker 1: process or how we process things as one hundred percent correct,
Speaker 1: but I just think that that piece that she took
Speaker 1: like I'm going to do this for me, I'm going
Speaker 1: to love me, and if you're around, you're around.
Speaker 2: If you're not, you're not.
Speaker 1: I still think there's a lot of strength in that, yeah,
Speaker 1: because some people can just be like, well, if my
Speaker 1: daddy doesn't love me, no one loves me, and then
Speaker 1: you hear that on the flip side where some people
Speaker 1: that are you know, prostitutes or got raped or different
Speaker 1: circumstances because you are seeking that validation. But you took
Speaker 1: the opposite way. You made it beautiful for you. And
Speaker 1: I think it's something. It's wisdom and that that's why
Speaker 1: I so love hearing from our elders here in your
Speaker 1: sixties and life has taught you that. And I will
Speaker 1: walk away with that, with knowledge that was becacause you're
Speaker 1: what you're saying is to the extreme area. You're saying
Speaker 1: you know prostitutes and what they don't do. I am
Speaker 1: nowhere near that, but I still have sought validation on
Speaker 1: some level where it may not be pronounced. I mean
Speaker 1: I did have to. I am on the journey home
Speaker 1: to myself in my twenties. I did not have the
Speaker 1: discernment to understand what I was doing. But even now
Speaker 1: and dealing with this man, and you know, it's like
Speaker 1: I'm drawn back to what my father taught me, you know,
Speaker 1: like make sure that you are valued. And he didn't
Speaker 1: say these words, and he just showed me these words.
Speaker 1: My uncles is why I gotta get because when my
Speaker 1: father passed away, my uncle, my uncle Brady used to
Speaker 1: take me to dinner for every single birthday, and he
Speaker 1: had this cute little black two theater sports car, and
Speaker 1: I would get dressed up and we would go to
Speaker 1: then my dad he'd say, actually, uncle Brady, your daddy
Speaker 1: could go. And it was always just me and him,
Speaker 1: and I just felt like courty, you know, I felt
Speaker 1: like so special. He took me to some adult dinner
Speaker 1: and it was like a black side dinner, and I
Speaker 1: went with him and I would just hear adults speaking.
Speaker 1: I remember being a little girl at the table and
Speaker 1: I had only heard this in movies. I didn't even
Speaker 1: know what it meant, but I knew I was thirsty,
Speaker 1: and I said, excuse me, everyone, I'm going to get
Speaker 1: a drink.
Speaker 2: And everybody laugh like alcohol.
Speaker 1: But I remember, just now what I'm going through dealing
Speaker 1: with this man and therapy and just you're not trying
Speaker 1: to figure life out. My therapist pointed out that some people,
Speaker 1: it's like, if you can convince this man to love
Speaker 1: you and the way that you want to be loved.
Speaker 1: For example, if he's like loved you but not in
Speaker 1: love with you, or if he's in love with you
Speaker 1: but not good for you, whatever that is that you
Speaker 1: can convince this man to love me and be in
Speaker 1: love with me the way that I desire, then somehow
Speaker 1: that would make everything else make sense. And somehow you
Speaker 1: are showing yourself I am worthy. So all the other
Speaker 1: people who didn't love me before, my mother, my father,
Speaker 1: my parents loved me. But you know, as a child,
Speaker 1: you misinterpret things. My mom didn't make me feel and
Speaker 1: my dad didn't make me feel away whatever that is.
Speaker 1: And this person loving me, I will heal those wounds.
Speaker 1: And that's not how it goes. So your thought that no,
Speaker 1: I validate myself, right, I am self soothing. I'm managing
Speaker 1: my emotions. I have not managed those things yet. I
Speaker 1: mean I'm managing them right. I am not where you
Speaker 1: have attained this wisdom, and nothing is like day spent
Speaker 1: on this earth. So I think that helps you afford
Speaker 1: this wisdom of coming home to yourself. So speaking of
Speaker 1: coming home to ourselves, we got to come home and
Speaker 1: pay some bills real quick, so I take a quick break.
Speaker 1: But on the other side of this, I do want
Speaker 1: to get into just some of the streets of talking
Speaker 1: about when it comes to you know, these like celebrities
Speaker 1: and you know we romanticize their lives, but they also
Speaker 1: have challenges with their kids. And anyway, I'm just tired
Speaker 1: of telling all my business. So a lot of people
Speaker 1: in the business right after.
Speaker 2: This break, so stay with us.
Speaker 1: Okay, y'all already know the streets are talking, talking, talking. Okay,
Speaker 1: welcome back, everybody. We have not stopped talking for two
Speaker 1: seconds because we have so much talk about. But now
Speaker 1: that I told all my business, I'd like to get
Speaker 1: into somebody else's business, and that is Brian y knight.
Speaker 1: Before we went to break, I was going to ask
Speaker 1: you guys, what makes a bad dad, And sadly, Brian
Speaker 1: McKnight comes to mind. Just for our viewers who don't know,
Speaker 1: Brian McKnight, has I feel disrespected, disregarded and discarded his
Speaker 1: children from his first marriage. Unfortunately, he has referred to
Speaker 1: his children as a product of sin. He recently accused
Speaker 1: his ex wife of basically influencing his relationship with his
Speaker 1: now a strange son and his son I should tell
Speaker 1: you has cancer, and his son Nico tweeted when I
Speaker 1: was about to die in the hospital from complications for
Speaker 1: my cancer, I just wanted to bury the hatchet and
Speaker 1: hear from him referring to Brian McKnight. Hear from him
Speaker 1: say he loves me, and he told me no, he
Speaker 1: could not arbitrarily tell me he loves me. Still cuts
Speaker 1: so deep. The fact that this is playing out in
Speaker 1: social media. I think it's just heartbreaking, But also it
Speaker 1: makes you question what kind of man with means and
Speaker 1: resources we treat their children that way. But it struck
Speaker 1: me with you, doctor Joy, because your stepmother influenced your
Speaker 1: relationship with your father, and so you have a unique
Speaker 1: lens into this, and I'm curious what you might say
Speaker 1: to Brian McKnight. Having been the products of a relationship
Speaker 1: like that, what would you say to him?
Speaker 2: It would begin with he really need to evaluate why
Speaker 2: he wanted to erase that part of his life or
Speaker 2: rearrange it. Why would you call it sin? If you
Speaker 2: were married to the woman, the mother of your children,
Speaker 2: how is it now they were born of sin? Are
Speaker 2: you really speaking of yourself? Are you speaking of the relationship?
Speaker 2: There are so many layers to that. But looking at
Speaker 2: my stepmother, she made a comment. This was during the
Speaker 2: time of the burial of my grandmother, my father's mother
Speaker 2: and my mother. My grandmother had been sick and they
Speaker 2: had to take care of her, and she made the
Speaker 2: comment she said, you know, I've had a problem with
Speaker 2: you because you ruined my perfect man. Now, given I
Speaker 2: was in my twenties when she told me this, but
Speaker 2: this was feelings that she had from my age of
Speaker 2: eight that I ruined her perfect man. How does a
Speaker 2: child ruin.
Speaker 3: This?
Speaker 2: I'm so ignorant. Yeah, well it's ignorant, but it says
Speaker 2: a whole lot more. Yes, because what's at the root
Speaker 2: of that is I have an idea in my mind
Speaker 2: of what it's supposed to look like, what my life
Speaker 2: is supposed to look like. So when I think of
Speaker 2: Brian McKnight, I think of the same thing that he's saying.
Speaker 2: You were born in sin so I want to erase
Speaker 2: that part of my life and this is my now life.
Speaker 2: Now does that make it right? No? I think it's
Speaker 2: very confused and.
Speaker 1: Self hating, Like because we had Dion work on the
Speaker 1: show and she talks about why would you want to
Speaker 1: disrespect your creation? This person is a part of you,
Speaker 1: And I mean, look, I will say I will preserve
Speaker 1: everybody's privacy, but I will say I happen to know
Speaker 1: Brian m knight is an asshole, you know from first
Speaker 1: day experience.
Speaker 2: So I think, yeah, so I.
Speaker 1: Forgive my language, doctor Joeye No, but I don't find
Speaker 1: him to be this is a very compelling at all.
Speaker 1: Is just a person who would treat his children that way.
Speaker 1: But I'm curious your thoughts on you know, the way
Speaker 1: Brian McKnight is like just publicly disregarding his children in
Speaker 1: favor of this, even if because sometimes it is like
Speaker 1: a new relationship is a thing that's influencing your relationship
Speaker 1: with your children, and both people have to come together.
Speaker 1: I thought Jay did a great job with this with
Speaker 1: Will's ex wife, Will Smith's ex wife that they said
Speaker 1: we had to put our differences aside and put the
Speaker 1: kids first. This doesn't even seem like that. This seems
Speaker 1: like Brian McKnight is like, I don't like your mama,
Speaker 1: so I don't like you, and that is just not
Speaker 1: a fair thing.
Speaker 2: What are your daughts. I think it's terrible.
Speaker 1: I feel bad for whatever way the kids are not
Speaker 1: the process through this, through life, how they're going to
Speaker 1: carry and process it. You never know how someone can
Speaker 1: internalize that, and I think that's important to shed light on.
Speaker 1: I probably resonate more or my kids. So I would
Speaker 1: say I, because I raise my kids, would probably resonate
Speaker 1: more with the sun. And that's hard. And I don't
Speaker 1: think that. I think it makes it worse that Brian meant.
Speaker 1: Brian McKnight has a large platform, which means he has
Speaker 1: the way to reach the masses, whether it's.
Speaker 2: Good or bad.
Speaker 1: He's in the position of power, right, But their fathers
Speaker 1: that have no power in disregard their kids every day
Speaker 1: on a regular yeah relationship. But I wonder, you know,
Speaker 1: the kids are gonna have to heal from this publicly
Speaker 1: emotionally at home. I just don't I just don't know. Well,
Speaker 1: I am struct that well he is suggesting, And I
Speaker 1: do find this a bit striking that it's like, oh no,
Speaker 1: but the mother rejected my health. Now let's just take
Speaker 1: Ryan McKnight out of it, who we've established as an asshole.
Speaker 1: So let's just talk about the dynamic when the mother
Speaker 1: is the person denying the father access to the children,
Speaker 1: and the father like making every effort and then being
Speaker 1: resentful because it's like, well, I can't feel this pain
Speaker 1: of not having my children. I'm mad at the mom.
Speaker 1: So I don't have anything to do with it. I
Speaker 1: need fathers to put their foot down in fight for
Speaker 1: their rights for their kids. Yeah, I'm tired of the
Speaker 1: lazy fatherhood approach. If these are their kids and you
Speaker 1: love your kids, go to the courthouse. There's one in
Speaker 1: every county in the United States. If you love that
Speaker 1: kid and you want to see that kid, get your weekends.
Speaker 1: I don't care if they call you a weekend that
Speaker 1: you want to get Friday Sunday. Make your inprint on
Speaker 1: that child's life if you want to. But just crying
Speaker 1: about how much you want to be a dad at
Speaker 1: home or just for the fifty followers you have on Instagram,
Speaker 1: it is not enough. Yes, it's not enough. If you
Speaker 1: are a good father, the courts will give you rights
Speaker 1: to your kids. But if you can't get off your
Speaker 1: ass and go down there and pay twenty five dollars
Speaker 1: to register for visitation for your kids, shame on you. Yeah,
Speaker 1: there's nothing to do with the mother, and it's nothing
Speaker 1: to do with the with the child. Sometimes fathers take
Speaker 1: that e that's an easy cut. Oh it's the mother,
Speaker 1: it's the mother, No, honey, it's you. Yeah, Because there
Speaker 1: want to be a day in hell that I wouldn't
Speaker 1: fight to see my kids. Yeah, I don't care how
Speaker 1: much money I had to pay on the line to
Speaker 1: go see my kids, and it's free. Visitation is completely
Speaker 1: separate from child support.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: A lot of men like to say, oh they overlap,
Speaker 1: I don't hear my child's word. I can't see them.
Speaker 1: There's not one state where that overlaps. Not paying your
Speaker 1: child support does not negate you visitation rights to your kids. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it hurts the mother because I feel like you should
Speaker 1: financially help pay for soccer. But just because you don't
Speaker 1: does not mean that I don't let you see your
Speaker 1: kid Friday through Saturday.
Speaker 2: But you are a special mother. There are some mothers
Speaker 2: who really use their children as a weapons. Yeah, and
Speaker 2: that does hurt, yes, the children. Yeah, that's very very important,
Speaker 2: and I think that's what we're talking about.
Speaker 1: But I think what your point though, is taken the
Speaker 1: book Kids First. You know, your father had an obligation
Speaker 1: to you, regardless of what your stepmother was doing, to
Speaker 1: put you first.
Speaker 2: And I go ahead, and I agree with that, but
Speaker 2: I also I'm going to go way you back just
Speaker 2: a little bit. And that is where you were talking
Speaker 2: about how you saw the dynamics of some of your
Speaker 2: characteristics behavior correct? Okay, what was he shown? Who is
Speaker 2: he right?
Speaker 1: For me?
Speaker 2: I have many characteristics of my father, even though I
Speaker 2: wasn't raised in the house with him, and it is
Speaker 2: conflict avoidance is one and with that that was also
Speaker 2: his role. So do I really hold him guilty because
Speaker 2: for him, he was trying to minimize the conflict in
Speaker 2: the home that he was in. When it comes to adults,
Speaker 2: an adults, an adult and a child as a child,
Speaker 2: I want to have the parents to perform correctly or
Speaker 2: properly or the way that I want them to feel.
Speaker 2: But if the dynamics does not provide for that, what
Speaker 2: do I do? Do I leave my now home for
Speaker 2: the one. I wouldn't have wanted that either, because that
Speaker 2: would not have been the right way when you can't
Speaker 2: put the one first because we're always doing trade office
Speaker 2: basically what I'm saying, Sometimes you can make the compromise,
Speaker 2: but sometimes you can't if you selected a partner who
Speaker 2: really is not on board. Now, one of the things
Speaker 2: that my mother did when she married my stepfather, she
Speaker 2: told me, I come as a package deal. Amen. If
Speaker 2: you do not accept my full package, you don't accept
Speaker 2: me you don't accept me. That's different. Yeah. Everyone, do
Speaker 2: not put that that front street. Yeah, you know, make
Speaker 2: that a part of the deal. They do not propose that.
Speaker 2: They go for Okay, I want you, you want me,
Speaker 2: we'll get married and then we'll work everything out on
Speaker 2: the back end. You know, you need to actually have
Speaker 2: that on the front end. And I think to just
Speaker 2: go a step deeper our community. You know, like this
Speaker 2: is credo in the black community is there is no
Speaker 2: child who is just somebody child. A black child is
Speaker 2: everybody's child.
Speaker 1: If I see a kid walking down the street and
Speaker 1: this code ain't got a hat on, I'm like that
Speaker 1: maybe need a hat on.
Speaker 2: You know, my grandmother every child was hers.
Speaker 1: You know, every child you have right to get gathered
Speaker 1: to parents if they weren't doing something right on the playgrounds,
Speaker 1: Black parents, everybody, every black child on there is their responsibility.
Speaker 1: So it's just striking to me to see this man
Speaker 1: publicly discard his children. It's just so unfortunate. But I
Speaker 1: think to your point, though, doctor Joy, put the kids first.
Speaker 2: That's what it's about.
Speaker 1: I think what you're saying, and listen, area, you gave
Speaker 1: us a whole psaut.
Speaker 2: I think that's lazy. And then I think it doesn't
Speaker 2: matter how the parents fell out.
Speaker 1: Kids benefit if both parents can be in their life positively.
Speaker 1: Because I'm not saying to have someone around who's you know,
Speaker 1: doing doing the worst. But if two positive parents can
Speaker 1: stay in child's life even after separating, the statistics are
Speaker 1: just different. Child. That's what it's supposed to be about.
Speaker 1: You're supposed to want better for your kids. My time
Speaker 1: is going to end. My only job is to make
Speaker 1: sure they turn out to be good people. So I
Speaker 1: need to do whatever I can and put as many
Speaker 1: people in their path that gives them the best odds
Speaker 1: to be good people. Yeah, that's why I I love that.
Speaker 2: I agree.
Speaker 1: Well, I thank you ladies for sharing your stories. I
Speaker 1: really hope you know this is a show that centers
Speaker 1: black women.
Speaker 2: Each week.
Speaker 1: I have an elder, a younger, and me, but I
Speaker 1: welcome black men and really all men, everybody. You know,
Speaker 1: we censor black women. We're not exclusively for black women.
Speaker 1: I think there's something to be learned from these conversations,
Speaker 1: and I truly hope fathers hear what you both share,
Speaker 1: because what we want to say to you men is
Speaker 1: you are needed. We need our fathers. You have such
Speaker 1: an important role to play in our lives and determine
Speaker 1: how we interact with other men, how we interact with
Speaker 1: platonic friendships. But like I said, the most important role
Speaker 1: is how we interact with ourselves and our relationship with
Speaker 1: our parents. Both mother and father play a significant role.
Speaker 1: So I want to salute all the dads, biological or
Speaker 1: otherwise who are out there doing the damn thing handling
Speaker 1: your business. We see you, we honor you, and thank
Speaker 1: you for that. And for those of you who are not,
Speaker 1: it is never too If you have been absent for
Speaker 1: weeks or years or decades, pick up the phone, make
Speaker 1: that call, do the outreach, find your children and build
Speaker 1: that relationship, and stand firm and strong when your kids
Speaker 1: have to confront you with the absentee challenges they've had. Yes,
Speaker 1: in your absence, they have gone through things, and so
Speaker 1: you have to be prepared to say that face that
Speaker 1: receive it. But there is joy on the other side
Speaker 1: of that. So thank you all for tuning into this
Speaker 1: episode of Across Generations.
Speaker 2: I think my.
Speaker 1: Guests cam being so transparent in your stories, and I
Speaker 1: thank you all for let me tell all my business
Speaker 1: yet days of this episode and we'll see you next time.
Speaker 1: Across Generations is brought to you by Wilpacker and Wilpacker
Speaker 1: Media in partnership with iHeart Podcasts, I'm Your Host and
Speaker 1: executive producer Tiffany d Cross from Idea to Launch Productions
Speaker 1: Executive producer Carla Willmeret. Produced by Mandy Be and Angel Forte.
Speaker 1: Editing Down Design and mixed by Gaza Forte. Original music
Speaker 1: by Epidemic Sound Video editing by Kaithon Alexander incre