1 00:00:07,600 --> 00:00:10,479 Speaker 1: Welcome to How to Citizen with baratun Day, a show 2 00:00:10,480 --> 00:00:14,080 Speaker 1: where we reimagine the word citizen as a verb, reclaim 3 00:00:14,080 --> 00:00:17,480 Speaker 1: it from those who have weaponized it, and remind ourselves 4 00:00:17,560 --> 00:00:26,479 Speaker 1: how to wield our collective power. I'm barratun Day. I 5 00:00:26,520 --> 00:00:30,319 Speaker 1: want to thank you you in general for listening, but 6 00:00:30,840 --> 00:00:35,279 Speaker 1: some use in particular for the actions you've taken, or 7 00:00:35,320 --> 00:00:38,720 Speaker 1: the messages you've shared, or just the way you've talked 8 00:00:38,760 --> 00:00:43,920 Speaker 1: about the show. To the group of American teachers in Casablanca. 9 00:00:44,640 --> 00:00:47,280 Speaker 1: It's an honor to have made it to your book club, 10 00:00:47,400 --> 00:00:50,720 Speaker 1: and I'm glad we're helping you feel more close to home. 11 00:00:51,080 --> 00:00:54,080 Speaker 1: Thanks for hitting us up at our email action at 12 00:00:54,080 --> 00:00:58,120 Speaker 1: how to Citizen dot com. To a studios avala on 13 00:00:58,400 --> 00:01:01,520 Speaker 1: I g. Thank you for turning our principles of what 14 00:01:01,560 --> 00:01:05,240 Speaker 1: it means to citizen into amazing and beautiful art and 15 00:01:05,360 --> 00:01:08,840 Speaker 1: using that hashtag how to Citizen We see you. And 16 00:01:08,880 --> 00:01:12,080 Speaker 1: to Phoebe let at The New York Times, thank you 17 00:01:12,240 --> 00:01:16,119 Speaker 1: for including us in your piece podcast to inform your vote. 18 00:01:16,560 --> 00:01:20,880 Speaker 1: Phoebe wrote, and I quote in each episode Thurston That's 19 00:01:20,959 --> 00:01:24,640 Speaker 1: me and his guests showed that the care American show 20 00:01:24,680 --> 00:01:27,800 Speaker 1: for one another every day is reason for optimism, and 21 00:01:27,840 --> 00:01:32,480 Speaker 1: the show's format practices what the content preaches. Yea, we 22 00:01:32,560 --> 00:01:34,919 Speaker 1: just got recommended by the New York Times. That feels 23 00:01:34,959 --> 00:01:38,760 Speaker 1: good and just a moment of celebration. All right, back 24 00:01:38,800 --> 00:01:42,080 Speaker 1: to work. We recorded the episode you're about to hear 25 00:01:42,120 --> 00:01:44,880 Speaker 1: with our live zoom audience, which you can join by 26 00:01:44,959 --> 00:01:48,000 Speaker 1: visiting how to citizen dot com and signing up for 27 00:01:48,000 --> 00:01:51,960 Speaker 1: the emails or text in order to get the link. Now, 28 00:01:52,080 --> 00:01:54,680 Speaker 1: I'm gonna pass the mic to myself as we learned 29 00:01:54,720 --> 00:02:02,840 Speaker 1: to build bridges not walls. So far in this series, 30 00:02:02,920 --> 00:02:06,560 Speaker 1: we have grounded ourselves in love and power. We've explored 31 00:02:06,600 --> 00:02:09,600 Speaker 1: how to citizen with COVID, with public safety, and with 32 00:02:09,639 --> 00:02:13,160 Speaker 1: worker rights. In this episode, We're gonna citizen a little 33 00:02:13,200 --> 00:02:17,160 Speaker 1: closer to home, literally closer to home. Part of how 34 00:02:17,160 --> 00:02:20,000 Speaker 1: the citizen requires us to care about the collective and 35 00:02:20,040 --> 00:02:23,640 Speaker 1: not just our individual selves, to be concerned with how 36 00:02:23,680 --> 00:02:27,360 Speaker 1: our actions are the actions of our government, impact our neighbors, 37 00:02:27,360 --> 00:02:30,799 Speaker 1: our communities, and our regions. Another part of how to 38 00:02:30,840 --> 00:02:35,399 Speaker 1: Citizen centis on showing up and participating, being in relationship 39 00:02:35,440 --> 00:02:39,360 Speaker 1: to others in our immediate proximity, not just our online friends. 40 00:02:40,200 --> 00:02:43,399 Speaker 1: We are proud to have a guest today who embodies 41 00:02:43,440 --> 00:02:47,080 Speaker 1: through her art how to citizen in her community, and 42 00:02:47,120 --> 00:02:50,720 Speaker 1: she's created a profound project that can build bridges and 43 00:02:50,760 --> 00:02:54,639 Speaker 1: communities around the world. Let me set the scene for you, 44 00:02:55,280 --> 00:03:00,000 Speaker 1: the South Side of Chicago. What images, words, phrases occurred 45 00:03:00,120 --> 00:03:03,840 Speaker 1: you when you hear that, Probably possibly at least something 46 00:03:03,840 --> 00:03:08,240 Speaker 1: along the lines of criminal headlines and gun violence, and 47 00:03:08,280 --> 00:03:12,080 Speaker 1: maybe Michelle Obama mixed in there. But the image that 48 00:03:12,160 --> 00:03:16,040 Speaker 1: the media paints is of a community constantly in strife, struggle, 49 00:03:16,360 --> 00:03:21,000 Speaker 1: maybe even words like carnage. And yet this is also 50 00:03:21,080 --> 00:03:24,320 Speaker 1: a community of people living and working together to make 51 00:03:24,440 --> 00:03:28,680 Speaker 1: lives better. No matter what else you see, read, or 52 00:03:28,760 --> 00:03:32,600 Speaker 1: hear about this place, there is another story of this place. 53 00:03:34,000 --> 00:03:37,400 Speaker 1: I know the story of this person thanks to you, literally, 54 00:03:37,480 --> 00:03:39,920 Speaker 1: thanks to one of you who heard our first two 55 00:03:39,920 --> 00:03:42,800 Speaker 1: episodes hit me up on I G I really do 56 00:03:42,880 --> 00:03:46,400 Speaker 1: read them and said you need to know about this 57 00:03:46,520 --> 00:03:49,760 Speaker 1: photo journalist as visual artist out of the South Side 58 00:03:49,800 --> 00:03:52,400 Speaker 1: of Chicago. So I want to thank Chris new Router 59 00:03:52,760 --> 00:03:55,800 Speaker 1: for putting me on our guest for this episode. Was 60 00:03:55,880 --> 00:03:58,960 Speaker 1: born and raised in Inglewood, a neighborhood on the South 61 00:03:59,000 --> 00:04:02,440 Speaker 1: side of Chicago. She's a visual artist and photographer, and 62 00:04:02,480 --> 00:04:06,560 Speaker 1: in she helped co found Resident Association of Greater Englewood. 63 00:04:07,040 --> 00:04:10,760 Speaker 1: She's also the co founder of Inglewood's Arts Collective. In 64 00:04:11,360 --> 00:04:15,160 Speaker 1: sen she was featured in Chicago Magazine as a Chicagoan 65 00:04:15,560 --> 00:04:18,479 Speaker 1: of the Year, and in ten she was named one 66 00:04:18,520 --> 00:04:21,839 Speaker 1: of the Field Foundations leaders for a New Chicago That's 67 00:04:21,839 --> 00:04:24,880 Speaker 1: Not Enough. Most recently, she was appointed as a member 68 00:04:24,880 --> 00:04:27,800 Speaker 1: of the Cultural Advisory Council to the Department of Cultural 69 00:04:27,800 --> 00:04:31,280 Speaker 1: Affairs and Special Events by the Chicago City Council. If 70 00:04:31,360 --> 00:04:36,040 Speaker 1: you can't tell, she is Chicago, and she's here with 71 00:04:36,240 --> 00:04:39,799 Speaker 1: us today to talk more about her project, Folded Map, 72 00:04:40,120 --> 00:04:43,880 Speaker 1: which visually connects residents who live at car responding addresses 73 00:04:43,920 --> 00:04:47,160 Speaker 1: on the north and south sides of one of America's 74 00:04:47,200 --> 00:04:50,920 Speaker 1: greatest cities. We hope she's going to spark your creativity 75 00:04:51,000 --> 00:04:57,920 Speaker 1: and imagination. Please welcome Tonica Johnson. Welcome to How to 76 00:04:57,960 --> 00:05:00,240 Speaker 1: Citizen with barrattun Day. Thank you for making time to 77 00:05:00,279 --> 00:05:04,760 Speaker 1: be here with us. Tanika, you started this project as 78 00:05:04,760 --> 00:05:08,800 Speaker 1: a visual investigation of Chicago's neighborhoods. You were using the 79 00:05:08,880 --> 00:05:15,360 Speaker 1: grid system in this beautiful spacetime star Trekky like, let's 80 00:05:15,440 --> 00:05:19,640 Speaker 1: fold it way to directly compare photographs and videos of 81 00:05:19,720 --> 00:05:23,720 Speaker 1: North and South Side blocks and residents for those who 82 00:05:23,720 --> 00:05:28,600 Speaker 1: are unfamiliar, the South Side being predominantly black, lower income, 83 00:05:29,120 --> 00:05:32,640 Speaker 1: the North Side being much more white and having many 84 00:05:32,680 --> 00:05:37,120 Speaker 1: more resources. Why did you start doing this? What was 85 00:05:37,160 --> 00:05:41,000 Speaker 1: your motivation as an artist for this work. So there's 86 00:05:41,080 --> 00:05:46,719 Speaker 1: the inspiration of the idea that started while I was 87 00:05:46,760 --> 00:05:50,960 Speaker 1: in high school, and then there is the motivation to 88 00:05:51,160 --> 00:05:54,240 Speaker 1: do the idea. Well, I want it all, So let's 89 00:05:54,279 --> 00:05:58,279 Speaker 1: go back to high school. So, um, in high school. 90 00:05:59,160 --> 00:06:03,440 Speaker 1: I grew up in Inglewood, and when I was thirteen 91 00:06:03,520 --> 00:06:07,200 Speaker 1: years old, I was commuting all the way to the 92 00:06:07,200 --> 00:06:12,000 Speaker 1: North Side from Inglewood to my high school, which is 93 00:06:12,240 --> 00:06:17,120 Speaker 1: fifteen miles north of Inglewood. And it is a selective 94 00:06:17,240 --> 00:06:20,800 Speaker 1: enrollment school, which basically means that it has students from 95 00:06:20,839 --> 00:06:26,920 Speaker 1: all over Chicago, and in the nineties, specifically selective enrollment schools. 96 00:06:27,000 --> 00:06:30,000 Speaker 1: Because they had students from all over Chicago, they were 97 00:06:30,040 --> 00:06:33,920 Speaker 1: able to curate the racial demographic of their student body 98 00:06:34,040 --> 00:06:39,159 Speaker 1: to reflect the percentage of the racial demographic in Chicago. 99 00:06:39,320 --> 00:06:43,039 Speaker 1: So there was equal percentage of each race. But you 100 00:06:43,080 --> 00:06:46,880 Speaker 1: can imagine, you know, being immersed in new friendships from 101 00:06:46,920 --> 00:06:50,479 Speaker 1: all over Chicago. But alongside of that, every day, while 102 00:06:50,520 --> 00:06:54,320 Speaker 1: I was traveling from Inglewood, fifteen miles north to the 103 00:06:54,320 --> 00:06:57,520 Speaker 1: predominantly white neighborhood that my high school is in, I 104 00:06:57,640 --> 00:07:01,440 Speaker 1: noticed so many things on that commute, and and one 105 00:07:01,600 --> 00:07:04,719 Speaker 1: was how different my neighborhood looked from the neighborhood that 106 00:07:04,800 --> 00:07:08,279 Speaker 1: my high school was in. I noticed that my neighborhood 107 00:07:08,320 --> 00:07:13,880 Speaker 1: definitely looked disinvested in. I noticed that we had vacant lots, 108 00:07:14,880 --> 00:07:22,080 Speaker 1: fast food restaurants, no franchise restaurants, no cafes, And the 109 00:07:22,120 --> 00:07:25,680 Speaker 1: neighborhood that my high school was in literally was the opposite. 110 00:07:25,800 --> 00:07:31,880 Speaker 1: It had so many cool things, boutiques, cafes, flowers, tree 111 00:07:31,920 --> 00:07:36,880 Speaker 1: lined streets, and I also recognized that the streets were 112 00:07:36,960 --> 00:07:39,600 Speaker 1: named the same. On this everyday commute, I was like, 113 00:07:39,680 --> 00:07:43,840 Speaker 1: oh wow, Ashland, and my neighborhood definitely doesn't look like this, 114 00:07:44,400 --> 00:07:47,280 Speaker 1: you know, the same way that it does on the 115 00:07:47,320 --> 00:07:50,000 Speaker 1: north Side. And so every day for four years, this 116 00:07:50,040 --> 00:07:52,160 Speaker 1: is what I saw on my commute. And so I 117 00:07:52,240 --> 00:07:54,120 Speaker 1: just listened to music and looked out the window and 118 00:07:54,160 --> 00:07:58,440 Speaker 1: noticed the disparity between my neighborhood and the neighborhood my 119 00:07:58,520 --> 00:08:03,080 Speaker 1: high school was in. But going to school is when 120 00:08:03,120 --> 00:08:07,440 Speaker 1: I really felt like I was introduced to Chicago because 121 00:08:07,800 --> 00:08:11,320 Speaker 1: our friendships are allowing us to explore each other's neighborhood. 122 00:08:11,400 --> 00:08:14,280 Speaker 1: So by the end of senior year in high school, 123 00:08:14,320 --> 00:08:17,520 Speaker 1: you can have a black boy from Chicago's West Side 124 00:08:17,600 --> 00:08:21,320 Speaker 1: tell you that his favorite Filipino dishes pawn sick, you know. 125 00:08:21,440 --> 00:08:26,400 Speaker 1: So this was the kind of diversity that we experienced. 126 00:08:26,640 --> 00:08:30,880 Speaker 1: And I knew then that although our city was segregated, 127 00:08:31,120 --> 00:08:34,959 Speaker 1: that relationships could be built across those racial lines. So 128 00:08:35,559 --> 00:08:38,679 Speaker 1: that stuck with me, and it didn't matter to me 129 00:08:38,760 --> 00:08:41,640 Speaker 1: as I got older and how many people talked about segregation. 130 00:08:42,280 --> 00:08:47,440 Speaker 1: I experienced what diversity and integration looks like it feels 131 00:08:47,480 --> 00:08:50,400 Speaker 1: like in Chicago, and I just carried that with me. 132 00:08:50,840 --> 00:08:55,480 Speaker 1: So when I got older and started to do community work, 133 00:08:55,520 --> 00:08:59,520 Speaker 1: and then the ten presidential election year came about, and 134 00:08:59,559 --> 00:09:04,760 Speaker 1: you know, current president was talking about Chicago very horribly, 135 00:09:05,280 --> 00:09:09,000 Speaker 1: primarily focusing on the gun violence, and I just felt 136 00:09:09,000 --> 00:09:11,760 Speaker 1: like that was such a cheap way to talk about 137 00:09:11,800 --> 00:09:16,040 Speaker 1: the larger systemic issues that created an environment for gun 138 00:09:16,160 --> 00:09:20,960 Speaker 1: violence to become an issue. And I said, you know what, 139 00:09:21,920 --> 00:09:24,120 Speaker 1: people just only want to focus on gun violence and 140 00:09:24,160 --> 00:09:27,520 Speaker 1: not the root issue. Gun violence has not always been 141 00:09:27,559 --> 00:09:31,160 Speaker 1: in neighborhoods like Inglewood and had a very clear beginning, 142 00:09:31,760 --> 00:09:35,679 Speaker 1: and what happened before gun violence became an issue is 143 00:09:35,720 --> 00:09:38,520 Speaker 1: something a lot of people don't know about. And I 144 00:09:38,559 --> 00:09:44,319 Speaker 1: wanted to do a project that clearly showed what the 145 00:09:44,400 --> 00:09:51,040 Speaker 1: present day impact of the historic segregation and discriminatory housing policies, 146 00:09:51,160 --> 00:09:54,200 Speaker 1: what that made our neighborhoods look like today, and that's 147 00:09:54,200 --> 00:09:59,319 Speaker 1: what prompted me to start working on Folded Map. Your 148 00:09:59,320 --> 00:10:04,640 Speaker 1: attempt to recreate connection is only possible or necessary because 149 00:10:05,040 --> 00:10:08,360 Speaker 1: there was a policy to create disconnection in the past. 150 00:10:08,440 --> 00:10:10,360 Speaker 1: And you alluded to this already talking about how the 151 00:10:10,360 --> 00:10:13,440 Speaker 1: present we're living in these decisions that were made a 152 00:10:13,440 --> 00:10:16,040 Speaker 1: long time ago and you experienced it as a high schooler. 153 00:10:16,840 --> 00:10:21,280 Speaker 1: Can you explain more about the other maps before you 154 00:10:21,360 --> 00:10:25,040 Speaker 1: came and folded them that defined Chicago and what families 155 00:10:25,120 --> 00:10:29,040 Speaker 1: could live where these red lining maps? Yes, so you know, 156 00:10:29,240 --> 00:10:32,280 Speaker 1: as people in this day and time are learning about 157 00:10:32,480 --> 00:10:36,800 Speaker 1: systemic racism. Um A huge part of how that was 158 00:10:36,840 --> 00:10:41,240 Speaker 1: able to sustain in our country as metropolitan cities became 159 00:10:41,320 --> 00:10:49,720 Speaker 1: more populated is the federal maps that essentially outline the 160 00:10:49,760 --> 00:10:55,359 Speaker 1: neighborhoods and locations and growing cities where the black population 161 00:10:55,480 --> 00:10:59,920 Speaker 1: was starting to move to and where the white pop 162 00:11:00,040 --> 00:11:04,679 Speaker 1: relation we're living at and will move to. And those maps, 163 00:11:04,960 --> 00:11:11,319 Speaker 1: the whole maps h l lc UM. They basically determined 164 00:11:12,360 --> 00:11:19,720 Speaker 1: which neighborhoods banks should approve mortgages or business loans, and 165 00:11:20,880 --> 00:11:28,280 Speaker 1: that ultimately affected how different white and black neighborhoods were 166 00:11:28,280 --> 00:11:36,160 Speaker 1: a resource. So in addition to creating this segregation basically 167 00:11:37,080 --> 00:11:40,000 Speaker 1: not approving a loan to a black family who were 168 00:11:40,080 --> 00:11:44,120 Speaker 1: interested in moving into this neighborhood that was defined as 169 00:11:44,120 --> 00:11:52,840 Speaker 1: a white neighborhood, they also had experienced discriminatory lending practices 170 00:11:52,920 --> 00:11:56,800 Speaker 1: by banks in the neighborhoods that were defined as black. 171 00:11:57,360 --> 00:12:01,840 Speaker 1: So those distinctions ultimately lead over the course of those 172 00:12:01,920 --> 00:12:09,160 Speaker 1: next sixty years, has resulted in this disparity and how 173 00:12:09,440 --> 00:12:13,240 Speaker 1: investment is in these neighborhoods. And so those were the 174 00:12:13,280 --> 00:12:18,760 Speaker 1: maps that ultimately determined the segregation that we continue to 175 00:12:18,800 --> 00:12:23,440 Speaker 1: see today replicated in so many different metropolitan neighborhoods. So 176 00:12:23,559 --> 00:12:27,920 Speaker 1: not only did they define the race of neighborhoods, but 177 00:12:28,040 --> 00:12:35,040 Speaker 1: they also determined where banks should and should not approve loans, 178 00:12:35,080 --> 00:12:38,720 Speaker 1: not just mortgages, but businesses that wanted to get started. 179 00:12:39,280 --> 00:12:44,440 Speaker 1: And due to the racist climate of that time, a 180 00:12:44,480 --> 00:12:48,120 Speaker 1: lot of the black neighborhoods didn't receive loans of any 181 00:12:48,200 --> 00:12:51,600 Speaker 1: kind to invest in their neighborhoods. So those are the 182 00:12:51,640 --> 00:12:56,680 Speaker 1: maps that I definitely was thinking of in reference to 183 00:12:56,840 --> 00:13:02,000 Speaker 1: creating and using Chicago's map as is a point of healing, 184 00:13:02,559 --> 00:13:08,040 Speaker 1: because we had those maps that created an exacerbated fear 185 00:13:08,600 --> 00:13:12,560 Speaker 1: not only for black families, but also white families. White 186 00:13:12,600 --> 00:13:15,440 Speaker 1: families were told that, oh, black people are moving to 187 00:13:15,480 --> 00:13:17,640 Speaker 1: your neighborhood. It's going to turn into a neighborhood that 188 00:13:17,679 --> 00:13:20,640 Speaker 1: doesn't get loans. Your housing values are gonna go down. 189 00:13:20,679 --> 00:13:24,920 Speaker 1: So there were white families who could possibly would have 190 00:13:25,080 --> 00:13:28,960 Speaker 1: stayed in the neighborhoods to live with black people had 191 00:13:29,000 --> 00:13:32,400 Speaker 1: they not been scared, you know, to the fact that 192 00:13:32,440 --> 00:13:36,160 Speaker 1: they're housing the homes that they've invested in were going 193 00:13:36,200 --> 00:13:41,559 Speaker 1: to lose value. And you know, those maps really cemented 194 00:13:41,679 --> 00:13:45,520 Speaker 1: segregation into our country, and that's why it was important 195 00:13:45,520 --> 00:13:50,360 Speaker 1: for me to use a map as healing. I really 196 00:13:50,400 --> 00:13:55,240 Speaker 1: like this idea of a map twin It's one thing 197 00:13:55,480 --> 00:14:01,600 Speaker 1: too conceptually and analytically think about this coordinate has a 198 00:14:01,640 --> 00:14:05,320 Speaker 1: corresponding coordinate. It takes me back to geometry class. But 199 00:14:05,360 --> 00:14:08,880 Speaker 1: there are people at those coordinates who have a story 200 00:14:09,320 --> 00:14:12,800 Speaker 1: and an experience, and so you have created these really 201 00:14:12,840 --> 00:14:17,240 Speaker 1: interesting possibilities for pairings of people that you call map twins. 202 00:14:17,840 --> 00:14:20,440 Speaker 1: Can you explain more about this concept and how that's 203 00:14:20,480 --> 00:14:23,720 Speaker 1: an entry point to participate in the fold of map. Yes. 204 00:14:24,000 --> 00:14:29,080 Speaker 1: So in Chicago, we have normalized our segregations at the 205 00:14:29,160 --> 00:14:32,600 Speaker 1: point of us joking about it, which you know, that's 206 00:14:32,600 --> 00:14:35,760 Speaker 1: what happens when you normalize stuff, you end up having weird, 207 00:14:35,840 --> 00:14:40,160 Speaker 1: unusual jokes about it. And so every Chicagoan jokes about 208 00:14:40,160 --> 00:14:42,360 Speaker 1: the fact that when you take our Red Line train, 209 00:14:43,080 --> 00:14:45,680 Speaker 1: you notice the colorship it goes from black on the 210 00:14:45,720 --> 00:14:50,000 Speaker 1: south side to white on the north side. And so 211 00:14:50,520 --> 00:14:57,000 Speaker 1: I really wanted us to, like, as Chicagoans interrupt, how 212 00:14:57,120 --> 00:15:01,360 Speaker 1: we've normalized it, you know, for them to understand how 213 00:15:01,400 --> 00:15:05,200 Speaker 1: it impacts our social networks. So I wanted to really 214 00:15:05,320 --> 00:15:10,000 Speaker 1: utilize Chicago's grid map, something that is uniquely Chicago, and 215 00:15:10,040 --> 00:15:13,280 Speaker 1: the fact that you have those coordinates that you know, 216 00:15:13,400 --> 00:15:16,600 Speaker 1: not in a lot of different places, and so I 217 00:15:16,640 --> 00:15:21,240 Speaker 1: wanted to use our grid map to reveal to people 218 00:15:21,280 --> 00:15:26,120 Speaker 1: exactly what you said, that these addresses that we mistakenly 219 00:15:26,200 --> 00:15:31,480 Speaker 1: go to sometimes, these addresses that feel like they reveal 220 00:15:31,640 --> 00:15:36,440 Speaker 1: so much about people's live experience, but we don't really know. 221 00:15:36,960 --> 00:15:40,320 Speaker 1: To use those addresses as a way to connect us 222 00:15:40,400 --> 00:15:44,040 Speaker 1: all and to let people know that you do have 223 00:15:44,200 --> 00:15:48,560 Speaker 1: a very distant neighbor fifteen miles away from you on 224 00:15:48,640 --> 00:15:52,000 Speaker 1: the same street, because we have so many streets in 225 00:15:52,080 --> 00:15:56,280 Speaker 1: Chicago that run the full north and south of Chicago, 226 00:15:56,760 --> 00:16:01,520 Speaker 1: and I wanted people to start thinking about they're distant neighbors, 227 00:16:01,560 --> 00:16:06,880 Speaker 1: regardless of the neighborhood, as family. And so I wanted 228 00:16:06,880 --> 00:16:11,280 Speaker 1: people to connect using the addresses or the neighborhoods that 229 00:16:11,280 --> 00:16:13,360 Speaker 1: would touch each other if you were to foe Chicago 230 00:16:13,440 --> 00:16:16,360 Speaker 1: in the middle, but then also to view them as 231 00:16:16,680 --> 00:16:21,560 Speaker 1: as family, because we are, whether we like it or not, 232 00:16:22,000 --> 00:16:26,000 Speaker 1: we are a family in this city, in this world, 233 00:16:26,400 --> 00:16:29,320 Speaker 1: and it's best that we start to get to know 234 00:16:29,400 --> 00:16:32,160 Speaker 1: each other. And so that was the way that I 235 00:16:32,200 --> 00:16:35,800 Speaker 1: wanted to create maps wins for people to feel some 236 00:16:35,920 --> 00:16:40,800 Speaker 1: kind of connection to someone who they share a street 237 00:16:40,920 --> 00:16:55,680 Speaker 1: name with. There's something that strikes me about the fear 238 00:16:55,840 --> 00:17:02,320 Speaker 1: that the government planted in white residents to say, you know, 239 00:17:02,920 --> 00:17:05,200 Speaker 1: black people are gonna bring your property values down, They're 240 00:17:05,200 --> 00:17:08,400 Speaker 1: gonna bring their neighborhood problems with them. It's like, those 241 00:17:08,440 --> 00:17:11,400 Speaker 1: are neighborhood problems because of what you did to them. 242 00:17:11,720 --> 00:17:15,000 Speaker 1: You don't get to blame people for the thing that 243 00:17:15,040 --> 00:17:19,440 Speaker 1: you did to make the situation be that way. Um, 244 00:17:19,480 --> 00:17:21,560 Speaker 1: A map as a tool of healing as opposed to 245 00:17:21,560 --> 00:17:23,840 Speaker 1: just a tool of division is a really powerful idea. 246 00:17:24,359 --> 00:17:29,360 Speaker 1: And these pairings that you've helped facilitate are powerful and 247 00:17:29,440 --> 00:17:35,119 Speaker 1: occasionally awkward. And can you talk through when you get 248 00:17:35,160 --> 00:17:40,840 Speaker 1: to map twins together, what are you going for? What happens? 249 00:17:41,200 --> 00:17:43,240 Speaker 1: I mean, I can tell you I watched the video 250 00:17:43,240 --> 00:17:45,119 Speaker 1: clip where I didn't know you're gonna ask people how 251 00:17:45,200 --> 00:17:48,120 Speaker 1: much they paid for their houses, And when you see 252 00:17:48,160 --> 00:17:52,000 Speaker 1: people react to each other. Somebody was like, I was 253 00:17:52,119 --> 00:17:55,000 Speaker 1: glad to get a deal for five hundred thousand dollars 254 00:17:55,000 --> 00:17:58,720 Speaker 1: and the black person is like, and like, we about 255 00:17:58,720 --> 00:18:01,840 Speaker 1: to paid thirty tho dollars for this house. So to 256 00:18:01,880 --> 00:18:05,160 Speaker 1: talk about the interaction amongst the twins and what has 257 00:18:05,200 --> 00:18:10,800 Speaker 1: happened there, I just always uplift them because These are 258 00:18:10,800 --> 00:18:15,040 Speaker 1: people who self selected to participate. I did a mass 259 00:18:15,040 --> 00:18:18,639 Speaker 1: solicitation to people on blocks that I was going to 260 00:18:18,680 --> 00:18:22,040 Speaker 1: include in the project. So the maps wins are the 261 00:18:22,119 --> 00:18:27,040 Speaker 1: people who said, I want to try this weird thing out. 262 00:18:28,280 --> 00:18:35,160 Speaker 1: And regardless if awkward moments happened, all of them were 263 00:18:35,200 --> 00:18:38,360 Speaker 1: connected in the fact that they thought it was important 264 00:18:38,480 --> 00:18:42,480 Speaker 1: enough for them to even participate. And so I think 265 00:18:42,640 --> 00:18:46,800 Speaker 1: them knowing that with each other created a sense of 266 00:18:47,880 --> 00:18:52,440 Speaker 1: trust and a sense of I know that this person 267 00:18:53,160 --> 00:18:56,920 Speaker 1: wants to improve the very thing that will reveal itself 268 00:18:56,920 --> 00:19:01,040 Speaker 1: in this conversation as being awkward. So a lot of 269 00:19:01,040 --> 00:19:05,840 Speaker 1: the map twins, you know, hadn't experienced each other's neighborhoods 270 00:19:05,880 --> 00:19:09,720 Speaker 1: just on a peer resident level. You know, a few 271 00:19:09,760 --> 00:19:12,120 Speaker 1: of the residents who lived on the North Side had 272 00:19:12,160 --> 00:19:15,640 Speaker 1: come to the South Side before, but primarily through volunteering, 273 00:19:16,240 --> 00:19:21,160 Speaker 1: so they hadn't met someone as just a neighbor. And 274 00:19:21,240 --> 00:19:27,639 Speaker 1: so a lot of them started to understand who has 275 00:19:27,920 --> 00:19:34,400 Speaker 1: benefited from the segregation that exists in Chicago. And it 276 00:19:34,480 --> 00:19:38,439 Speaker 1: is uncomfortable, you know, when you meet someone who you 277 00:19:38,520 --> 00:19:43,480 Speaker 1: have learned to be interested in and then you all 278 00:19:43,520 --> 00:19:47,439 Speaker 1: answer the question of what's missing in your neighborhood, and 279 00:19:48,280 --> 00:19:55,200 Speaker 1: one person says basic stuff like oh, better schools, community 280 00:19:55,560 --> 00:20:00,879 Speaker 1: center for children, restaurants, grocery store, just the basic needs, 281 00:20:01,400 --> 00:20:05,080 Speaker 1: and you can't even come up with anything in your neighborhood. 282 00:20:05,880 --> 00:20:09,760 Speaker 1: You start to develop empathy, and then the person who 283 00:20:09,960 --> 00:20:12,960 Speaker 1: is saying the things that they don't have in their 284 00:20:12,960 --> 00:20:17,280 Speaker 1: neighborhood feels as if, oh, someone cares. Like the people 285 00:20:17,320 --> 00:20:21,000 Speaker 1: who actually have the very thing that I'm saying we 286 00:20:21,080 --> 00:20:25,560 Speaker 1: need in in my neighborhood, who I possibly thought didn't care, 287 00:20:25,880 --> 00:20:31,600 Speaker 1: They're actually listening. So it was reciprocal listening and learning. 288 00:20:31,640 --> 00:20:34,959 Speaker 1: So all of them had that. Even if there were 289 00:20:35,040 --> 00:20:39,080 Speaker 1: varying degrees of awkward moments, all of them were rooted 290 00:20:39,280 --> 00:20:43,800 Speaker 1: in that. And I think there are great examples of 291 00:20:43,920 --> 00:20:47,919 Speaker 1: how to model those kind of conversations. We haven't talked 292 00:20:47,920 --> 00:20:51,680 Speaker 1: about that with each other before, especially in such a 293 00:20:51,720 --> 00:20:57,159 Speaker 1: place specific project like Chicago, and it's gonna be weird. 294 00:20:57,280 --> 00:20:59,480 Speaker 1: It's gonna be awkward and unusual, and we need to 295 00:20:59,520 --> 00:21:03,120 Speaker 1: just get okay with that. Need to start being okay 296 00:21:03,200 --> 00:21:06,800 Speaker 1: with saying the prices of stuff, because that is what 297 00:21:07,000 --> 00:21:11,560 Speaker 1: reveals the true impact of inequity and how it is 298 00:21:11,560 --> 00:21:15,800 Speaker 1: a barrier to people progressing not only in their life, 299 00:21:15,880 --> 00:21:20,240 Speaker 1: but you know, from generations from now, and we have 300 00:21:20,320 --> 00:21:24,399 Speaker 1: to start being okay with saying words like black, white, Latino, 301 00:21:24,600 --> 00:21:28,159 Speaker 1: Asian and then also being corrected, you know. So I 302 00:21:28,200 --> 00:21:33,040 Speaker 1: think the Maps Wins conversations reveal all of that. MHM. 303 00:21:33,160 --> 00:21:37,320 Speaker 1: How did you learn to facilitate that sort of necessary 304 00:21:37,600 --> 00:21:44,000 Speaker 1: but uncomfortable series of conversations. Well, I would say formally 305 00:21:44,080 --> 00:21:47,679 Speaker 1: and just creating the questions. That is rooted in the 306 00:21:47,720 --> 00:21:53,679 Speaker 1: fact that I went to college for journalism, and prior 307 00:21:53,720 --> 00:21:56,160 Speaker 1: to that, in high school, I was, you know, one 308 00:21:56,200 --> 00:21:59,639 Speaker 1: of them weirdo our kids, but my interest was in 309 00:22:00,080 --> 00:22:05,480 Speaker 1: witchery and writing articles. So I've always been interested in 310 00:22:05,480 --> 00:22:09,320 Speaker 1: interviewing people, which really comes down to me just being nosy, 311 00:22:09,480 --> 00:22:12,480 Speaker 1: you know, I'm just nosy and people are so interested 312 00:22:12,520 --> 00:22:15,640 Speaker 1: to me, and going to high school with so many 313 00:22:15,640 --> 00:22:18,960 Speaker 1: different people, you just like start to ask questions like, 314 00:22:19,000 --> 00:22:20,720 Speaker 1: oh my gosh, where do you live, where are you from, 315 00:22:20,760 --> 00:22:23,080 Speaker 1: what do you like to do? Wow? So all of 316 00:22:23,119 --> 00:22:27,400 Speaker 1: that was carried over into folded Matt. But what was 317 00:22:28,160 --> 00:22:31,560 Speaker 1: difficult for me to do that I really hadn't learned 318 00:22:31,880 --> 00:22:37,359 Speaker 1: in journalism school was how to not interrupt people answering 319 00:22:37,400 --> 00:22:42,080 Speaker 1: your questions that are ultimately in conversation with each other. 320 00:22:42,680 --> 00:22:46,040 Speaker 1: So I would start, you know, by asking them both 321 00:22:46,119 --> 00:22:49,400 Speaker 1: the same questions, questions that I had asked them separately, 322 00:22:49,480 --> 00:22:51,800 Speaker 1: just to get them used to it. So no one 323 00:22:51,880 --> 00:22:55,400 Speaker 1: was really going to be surprised by what they were 324 00:22:55,440 --> 00:22:57,879 Speaker 1: thinking of or how they were thinking of answering the question. 325 00:22:58,000 --> 00:23:00,840 Speaker 1: You were only going to be surprised by what you 326 00:23:00,920 --> 00:23:03,639 Speaker 1: heard someone else answering. So for me, I had to 327 00:23:03,720 --> 00:23:07,879 Speaker 1: learn how to just shut up, like after you asked 328 00:23:07,920 --> 00:23:12,800 Speaker 1: the question, let people talk, and then when the awkward 329 00:23:12,840 --> 00:23:19,000 Speaker 1: moments happened, don't interrupt, like see how they fix it, 330 00:23:19,800 --> 00:23:23,239 Speaker 1: see what they resort to in order to fix it. 331 00:23:23,480 --> 00:23:26,480 Speaker 1: And that was really the gold of the project is 332 00:23:26,520 --> 00:23:32,280 Speaker 1: seeing how two strangers interact around these seemingly simple questions, 333 00:23:32,359 --> 00:23:35,399 Speaker 1: but that clearly reveal a different lived experience. And so 334 00:23:35,640 --> 00:23:38,280 Speaker 1: I I had to learn how to shut up and 335 00:23:38,320 --> 00:23:40,400 Speaker 1: stay out of the way. There were so many times 336 00:23:40,440 --> 00:23:44,040 Speaker 1: where I understood both point of views and I was 337 00:23:44,080 --> 00:23:45,919 Speaker 1: and I wanted to explain and like, no, what you 338 00:23:46,000 --> 00:23:50,520 Speaker 1: really means is, but I couldn't. So that was a 339 00:23:50,640 --> 00:23:56,560 Speaker 1: learning lesson for me. It's an act of journalism, an 340 00:23:56,600 --> 00:24:01,080 Speaker 1: act of community building, and act of art all in one. 341 00:24:01,119 --> 00:24:04,159 Speaker 1: How do you see yourself? Well, now, I changed the 342 00:24:04,200 --> 00:24:07,840 Speaker 1: title on my artist's website so often. At first it 343 00:24:07,920 --> 00:24:11,480 Speaker 1: was photographer, then it was a social justice activist, then 344 00:24:11,760 --> 00:24:15,000 Speaker 1: I was like social justice artist, then it was trans 345 00:24:15,040 --> 00:24:18,119 Speaker 1: diisciplinary artists. So I don't know I changed it, you know, 346 00:24:18,320 --> 00:24:23,320 Speaker 1: according to what people tell me. I am um, but 347 00:24:24,359 --> 00:24:27,199 Speaker 1: I just say artists and the and the medium that 348 00:24:27,359 --> 00:24:32,280 Speaker 1: I use is photography, but even that's changing because you know, 349 00:24:32,359 --> 00:24:36,600 Speaker 1: I've included video, I've included so many other things, like 350 00:24:36,800 --> 00:24:41,200 Speaker 1: you know, public installations, so just artists. I think that's 351 00:24:41,240 --> 00:24:46,280 Speaker 1: what I've grown to accept, partly because my neighborhood like 352 00:24:46,400 --> 00:24:48,760 Speaker 1: bestowed that title on me. I was trying to avoid 353 00:24:48,800 --> 00:24:51,200 Speaker 1: it for so long because I felt like in order 354 00:24:51,240 --> 00:24:53,359 Speaker 1: to really claim yourself as an artist, you have to 355 00:24:54,080 --> 00:24:57,359 Speaker 1: I've had produced something, and they were calling me an 356 00:24:57,440 --> 00:25:01,200 Speaker 1: artist way before I had my first exit vision, way 357 00:25:01,240 --> 00:25:04,720 Speaker 1: before I thought of folded map. And so once they 358 00:25:04,760 --> 00:25:08,199 Speaker 1: told me no you are you are just accepted, I 359 00:25:08,240 --> 00:25:13,520 Speaker 1: was like, okay, I am and me taking on that 360 00:25:13,560 --> 00:25:17,480 Speaker 1: title because they uplifted me enough to say, no, you're 361 00:25:17,480 --> 00:25:20,240 Speaker 1: an artists and we're proud of you. That allowed me 362 00:25:20,280 --> 00:25:23,199 Speaker 1: to open my mind up to think of projects, you know, 363 00:25:23,400 --> 00:25:28,000 Speaker 1: like actually doing folded map. I would add Tonica that 364 00:25:28,119 --> 00:25:33,080 Speaker 1: your medium is far greater than photography. Your medium is 365 00:25:33,119 --> 00:25:36,399 Speaker 1: your city, and your medium are these people who you 366 00:25:36,480 --> 00:25:39,680 Speaker 1: treat with such respect. You create a space for them 367 00:25:40,600 --> 00:25:43,919 Speaker 1: to have dialogue, and then you trust them enough to 368 00:25:44,119 --> 00:25:49,840 Speaker 1: let them have it. That's art. That is not facilitation, 369 00:25:50,440 --> 00:25:55,000 Speaker 1: That is not lawyer ring, that is not conflict resolution NG. 370 00:25:55,920 --> 00:25:58,960 Speaker 1: That is creating and it's very powerful. So I just 371 00:25:58,960 --> 00:26:01,080 Speaker 1: wanted to observe that as an outsider to tell you 372 00:26:01,119 --> 00:26:03,119 Speaker 1: what you do. You are an artist, but you are 373 00:26:03,200 --> 00:26:06,320 Speaker 1: your medium is also us and I appreciate it. Thank you. 374 00:26:06,680 --> 00:26:09,480 Speaker 1: I'm to use that you should use that. We're recording 375 00:26:09,480 --> 00:26:13,040 Speaker 1: so you can get it. You get it perfectly. There's 376 00:26:13,080 --> 00:26:15,159 Speaker 1: a quote that we found about you. I want to 377 00:26:15,160 --> 00:26:17,600 Speaker 1: share with you and then ask your thoughts about how 378 00:26:17,640 --> 00:26:20,840 Speaker 1: this connects to your work. Since then, she has transformed 379 00:26:20,840 --> 00:26:25,359 Speaker 1: this project into an advocacy and policy influencing tool that 380 00:26:25,440 --> 00:26:28,119 Speaker 1: invites audiences to open a dialogue and question how we 381 00:26:28,200 --> 00:26:32,000 Speaker 1: are all socially impacted by racial and institutional conditions that 382 00:26:32,040 --> 00:26:35,720 Speaker 1: segregate the city, So can you tell me more about 383 00:26:36,160 --> 00:26:39,879 Speaker 1: how this project is being used as an advocacy tool 384 00:26:40,000 --> 00:26:44,160 Speaker 1: and how it's affecting policy. When you create a piece 385 00:26:44,200 --> 00:26:48,360 Speaker 1: of work, like you have no idea how people are 386 00:26:48,400 --> 00:26:53,399 Speaker 1: going to respond, and so you can't ever foresee what 387 00:26:53,720 --> 00:27:00,000 Speaker 1: that response will make you do or feel as an artist, 388 00:27:00,080 --> 00:27:03,600 Speaker 1: is what it will influence you to create after that. 389 00:27:03,800 --> 00:27:07,879 Speaker 1: So I had only seen Folded Map as an art project, 390 00:27:07,960 --> 00:27:10,479 Speaker 1: like this project that was in my head that I 391 00:27:10,560 --> 00:27:16,879 Speaker 1: finally got out and once people started responding and connecting 392 00:27:16,960 --> 00:27:23,119 Speaker 1: to the idea of a map twin, the idea of saying, yes, 393 00:27:23,280 --> 00:27:27,720 Speaker 1: the city is segregated and it has contributed to maybe 394 00:27:27,760 --> 00:27:32,320 Speaker 1: some racist thoughts I have, or yes it's unfair that 395 00:27:32,520 --> 00:27:37,000 Speaker 1: this North Side neighborhood has exactly what my neighborhood needs. 396 00:27:37,080 --> 00:27:41,960 Speaker 1: So it was more of an affirmation that Chicagoan started 397 00:27:41,960 --> 00:27:45,280 Speaker 1: to use to say, you know, look, this is what 398 00:27:45,359 --> 00:27:49,439 Speaker 1: it is. And because the response was so great and 399 00:27:49,480 --> 00:27:52,600 Speaker 1: people wanted to participate find out if I was gonna 400 00:27:52,640 --> 00:27:56,879 Speaker 1: do more map twins, it really started to generate a 401 00:27:57,040 --> 00:28:03,920 Speaker 1: larger citywide conversation and primarily through my social media, that 402 00:28:04,560 --> 00:28:08,359 Speaker 1: started to grow and people that wanted to see what 403 00:28:08,440 --> 00:28:12,040 Speaker 1: I was sharing and then comment on it, and eventually, 404 00:28:12,440 --> 00:28:17,320 Speaker 1: you know, it led to policy influence and organizations becoming 405 00:28:17,359 --> 00:28:22,200 Speaker 1: aware of it, like Metropolitan Planning Council. Most recently, our 406 00:28:23,000 --> 00:28:29,000 Speaker 1: president Tony Preckwinkle, who ran for mayor. She saw my 407 00:28:29,080 --> 00:28:33,879 Speaker 1: folded map animated film and quickly identified the fact that 408 00:28:33,920 --> 00:28:39,240 Speaker 1: it could prove certain policies that she wanted to introduce. 409 00:28:39,920 --> 00:28:44,840 Speaker 1: That it's a clear visual example using our grid map 410 00:28:45,440 --> 00:28:51,480 Speaker 1: to demonstrate the neglect and the unfairness of what our 411 00:28:51,560 --> 00:28:56,600 Speaker 1: city has experienced fifty sixty years ago. And so a 412 00:28:56,640 --> 00:29:02,880 Speaker 1: lot of organizations and individuals who are working hard and 413 00:29:03,000 --> 00:29:09,520 Speaker 1: tirelessly two kind of resolve this inequity, began to refer 414 00:29:09,600 --> 00:29:12,640 Speaker 1: to folded map, and so they didn't have to refer 415 00:29:12,840 --> 00:29:17,720 Speaker 1: to a report primarily with just statistics. They were able 416 00:29:17,760 --> 00:29:22,360 Speaker 1: to say, this report reveals this, but look at this project. 417 00:29:22,440 --> 00:29:26,400 Speaker 1: These are people who met each other who are clearly 418 00:29:26,600 --> 00:29:32,040 Speaker 1: talking about the inequity between home ownership amenities. So they 419 00:29:32,080 --> 00:29:37,880 Speaker 1: started to use folded map as evidence of something that 420 00:29:38,320 --> 00:29:45,360 Speaker 1: reports just weren't able to translate. And also having the photographs, 421 00:29:45,440 --> 00:29:52,000 Speaker 1: you know, I definitely have started to accept the pioneering 422 00:29:52,120 --> 00:29:58,760 Speaker 1: impact of photographing Chicago's two different sides and comparing them 423 00:29:58,840 --> 00:30:02,640 Speaker 1: because I think in courts um that hasn't been done before. 424 00:30:03,040 --> 00:30:08,560 Speaker 1: No one really thought of, oh, let's just photograph these 425 00:30:08,560 --> 00:30:11,840 Speaker 1: streets that are the same and just show the difference. So, 426 00:30:12,040 --> 00:30:16,880 Speaker 1: you know, that is my contribution to understanding the present 427 00:30:16,960 --> 00:30:20,880 Speaker 1: day impact of segregation in Chicago, and I think all 428 00:30:20,920 --> 00:30:23,200 Speaker 1: of the reports that have been done it was really 429 00:30:23,240 --> 00:30:27,240 Speaker 1: just missing the the visual and the human aspect to it. 430 00:30:27,320 --> 00:30:30,920 Speaker 1: And so that's what a lot of policymakers have been 431 00:30:31,040 --> 00:30:36,480 Speaker 1: using Folded Map to push their efforts forward. But then 432 00:30:36,520 --> 00:30:40,280 Speaker 1: also the Folded Map family is I call them. A 433 00:30:40,280 --> 00:30:43,239 Speaker 1: lot of them are educators and a lot of them 434 00:30:43,280 --> 00:30:46,000 Speaker 1: are people who want to learn more. So they're also 435 00:30:46,160 --> 00:30:50,480 Speaker 1: learning about different issues and policies through Folded Map. So 436 00:30:50,520 --> 00:30:54,000 Speaker 1: that is how it just transformed into a tool that 437 00:30:54,280 --> 00:30:59,400 Speaker 1: educators and policymakers are using to push their work forward. 438 00:31:00,280 --> 00:31:03,480 Speaker 1: Are there any other outcomes that you hope to see 439 00:31:03,560 --> 00:31:08,440 Speaker 1: from this project? Yes, one in particular that I'm holding 440 00:31:08,520 --> 00:31:13,200 Speaker 1: up actually is the Folded Map action kits. So many 441 00:31:13,280 --> 00:31:16,440 Speaker 1: people told me they wanted to participate in Folded Map, 442 00:31:16,480 --> 00:31:18,600 Speaker 1: but I had to let people know, like I'm not 443 00:31:18,680 --> 00:31:22,600 Speaker 1: gonna do this forever. I can't pare people up. Maybe 444 00:31:22,680 --> 00:31:25,840 Speaker 1: I can create something where you all can do it yourself. 445 00:31:26,080 --> 00:31:30,880 Speaker 1: So I created the Folded Map Action Kit, which is 446 00:31:31,080 --> 00:31:34,040 Speaker 1: a literal kick um that we're mailing to some of 447 00:31:34,080 --> 00:31:37,360 Speaker 1: the select people on Folded Map contact list, but that 448 00:31:37,400 --> 00:31:41,000 Speaker 1: will be available for download on folded Map website, where 449 00:31:41,240 --> 00:31:45,840 Speaker 1: it's a self guided invite to run errands in your 450 00:31:45,840 --> 00:31:50,120 Speaker 1: map twin neighborhood and share back your experience. I wanted 451 00:31:50,120 --> 00:31:53,600 Speaker 1: people to be able to contribute to the expansion of 452 00:31:53,680 --> 00:31:56,520 Speaker 1: Folded Map, but in a more personalized way that would 453 00:31:56,520 --> 00:32:01,200 Speaker 1: allow them to not enter into a neighborhood good with 454 00:32:01,400 --> 00:32:07,400 Speaker 1: the preconceived ideas or the stereotypes. Because as a photographer, 455 00:32:07,480 --> 00:32:11,000 Speaker 1: I know very well that what you're told about a 456 00:32:11,040 --> 00:32:14,480 Speaker 1: location and a group of people will be reflected in 457 00:32:14,520 --> 00:32:17,000 Speaker 1: what you pay attention to. So it's kind of like 458 00:32:17,160 --> 00:32:21,400 Speaker 1: a self fulfilling prophecy. So if you're told that elin 459 00:32:21,520 --> 00:32:25,080 Speaker 1: is horrible, you're gonna pay attention to things that look 460 00:32:25,120 --> 00:32:28,680 Speaker 1: horrible to you. You know, you won't notice other things. 461 00:32:28,720 --> 00:32:31,640 Speaker 1: And so I wanted to create a project or an 462 00:32:31,680 --> 00:32:38,520 Speaker 1: activity where it allowed you to meet regular residents just 463 00:32:38,840 --> 00:32:42,200 Speaker 1: you know. And so that's when I came up with 464 00:32:42,320 --> 00:32:46,760 Speaker 1: the idea to have people run errands in your map 465 00:32:46,800 --> 00:32:53,400 Speaker 1: twin neighborhood, and errands that are associated to the very 466 00:32:53,480 --> 00:32:58,520 Speaker 1: specific inequities. So go buy an organic apple in your 467 00:32:58,560 --> 00:33:02,400 Speaker 1: map twin neighborhood. Go take out twenty dollars at an 468 00:33:02,440 --> 00:33:05,880 Speaker 1: a T M go By lotion. That's a very different 469 00:33:05,920 --> 00:33:09,719 Speaker 1: experience in neighborhoods. People wouldn't think it is, but it is. 470 00:33:10,480 --> 00:33:14,080 Speaker 1: Um go see your local post office, local library, so 471 00:33:14,200 --> 00:33:18,320 Speaker 1: people can as close as possible feel what it is 472 00:33:18,440 --> 00:33:22,120 Speaker 1: to walk in their distant neighbors shoes. But that is 473 00:33:22,160 --> 00:33:27,360 Speaker 1: something that I am excited for Chicagoans to do and 474 00:33:27,640 --> 00:33:32,360 Speaker 1: for people in other cities as well. It's activity that 475 00:33:32,480 --> 00:33:36,720 Speaker 1: can be applied to so many cities in our country. 476 00:33:36,760 --> 00:33:40,360 Speaker 1: And I really just view Chicago as a microcosm of 477 00:33:41,040 --> 00:33:44,680 Speaker 1: what is really going on in our nation with a 478 00:33:44,760 --> 00:33:50,160 Speaker 1: segregation and equities that is just what it is, and 479 00:33:50,240 --> 00:33:53,480 Speaker 1: a lot of metropolitan cities. And so that's what I'm 480 00:33:53,520 --> 00:33:56,960 Speaker 1: hoping with the expansion of folded Map into this action kit, 481 00:33:57,160 --> 00:34:02,200 Speaker 1: that people will enter neighborhoods in a way that isn't 482 00:34:02,240 --> 00:34:08,120 Speaker 1: just gazing you know that they can actually create some 483 00:34:08,280 --> 00:34:13,040 Speaker 1: empathy to the neighborhoods that they visit that don't have 484 00:34:13,120 --> 00:34:17,040 Speaker 1: the resources, and then for the people who visit neighborhoods 485 00:34:17,080 --> 00:34:21,959 Speaker 1: that are over resourced, for them to think about, Wow, 486 00:34:22,480 --> 00:34:27,960 Speaker 1: this neighborhood has things that I'm entitled to. Some people 487 00:34:28,000 --> 00:34:33,640 Speaker 1: don't know how over resourced other neighborhoods are, and unfortunately 488 00:34:33,680 --> 00:34:36,239 Speaker 1: they can start to think that that's the norm. That 489 00:34:37,000 --> 00:34:40,359 Speaker 1: my neighborhood being disinvested in is how it's supposed to be. 490 00:34:40,880 --> 00:34:44,640 Speaker 1: And so that's my goal with the Activity Kid is 491 00:34:44,680 --> 00:34:49,759 Speaker 1: to have this conversation become more personalized. I want you 492 00:34:49,800 --> 00:34:54,080 Speaker 1: to dream with me for a second, Tunika. I love Chicago, 493 00:34:54,800 --> 00:34:57,440 Speaker 1: and I've never been a full time resident, visited a lot, 494 00:34:57,480 --> 00:34:59,680 Speaker 1: spent to summer there. I like to claim my little piece. 495 00:35:00,440 --> 00:35:05,200 Speaker 1: But as you said, our whole nation is segregated and 496 00:35:06,320 --> 00:35:10,319 Speaker 1: has been pulled apart by various maps of division rather 497 00:35:10,360 --> 00:35:14,240 Speaker 1: than maps of healing. What other elements could you see 498 00:35:14,320 --> 00:35:16,640 Speaker 1: emerging from this? Maybe you've got a hint of it. 499 00:35:16,680 --> 00:35:19,400 Speaker 1: Maybe you just had some advice for the non Chicago 500 00:35:19,400 --> 00:35:22,440 Speaker 1: wins out there about principles they could apply to proceed 501 00:35:22,520 --> 00:35:24,719 Speaker 1: on their own down this path. What do you say 502 00:35:24,719 --> 00:35:28,000 Speaker 1: to that you can connect with people through your passion? 503 00:35:28,719 --> 00:35:31,520 Speaker 1: And I think that's something our country has not had 504 00:35:31,560 --> 00:35:35,640 Speaker 1: the opportunity for individuals to experience. You know, we we've 505 00:35:35,680 --> 00:35:39,319 Speaker 1: associated our where we should live based on class, you know, 506 00:35:39,320 --> 00:35:42,799 Speaker 1: the amount of money we make. Now just imagine if 507 00:35:42,960 --> 00:35:47,680 Speaker 1: people determine where they live based off of the community 508 00:35:47,680 --> 00:35:50,960 Speaker 1: of people they shared a passion with. And I just 509 00:35:51,040 --> 00:35:55,880 Speaker 1: hope that people take away from folded map that they 510 00:35:55,880 --> 00:35:59,640 Speaker 1: can apply to where they live. It's just meeting people 511 00:36:00,200 --> 00:36:04,160 Speaker 1: through your interests and your passions, not focusing on people 512 00:36:04,200 --> 00:36:07,880 Speaker 1: who have the same lived experience is you because passions 513 00:36:08,120 --> 00:36:12,760 Speaker 1: cross the racial divide, the geographic divide, and it allows 514 00:36:12,800 --> 00:36:16,080 Speaker 1: you an opportunity to see someone from a different lived 515 00:36:16,120 --> 00:36:20,280 Speaker 1: experience as your equal because you have a shared passion. 516 00:36:20,480 --> 00:36:23,799 Speaker 1: And so I just hope that people really start to 517 00:36:23,840 --> 00:36:29,040 Speaker 1: think about how and why we're divided racially, because I 518 00:36:29,280 --> 00:36:35,439 Speaker 1: know that there's a huge population of us who don't 519 00:36:35,480 --> 00:36:38,680 Speaker 1: want to interact that way. We don't want to be divided. 520 00:36:39,040 --> 00:36:43,080 Speaker 1: We see the value and the benefit of connecting with 521 00:36:43,200 --> 00:36:47,960 Speaker 1: people from different lived experiences and it's fun. It's so 522 00:36:48,080 --> 00:36:51,160 Speaker 1: fun to learn other people's culture and to see what's different, 523 00:36:51,520 --> 00:36:54,279 Speaker 1: to see what you view is weird or what you 524 00:36:54,400 --> 00:37:00,719 Speaker 1: don't like. It's fun and it also expands your world view. 525 00:37:01,320 --> 00:37:05,719 Speaker 1: And we're in a place and time where it's global, 526 00:37:06,320 --> 00:37:09,960 Speaker 1: you know, we're not living in places where it's just 527 00:37:10,080 --> 00:37:13,640 Speaker 1: people who look like us. And so that's what I 528 00:37:13,680 --> 00:37:18,200 Speaker 1: would hope people would take away, just the curiosity of 529 00:37:18,280 --> 00:37:22,040 Speaker 1: getting to know history, the curiosity of wanting to get 530 00:37:22,040 --> 00:37:25,319 Speaker 1: to know other people. I've got one more for you, 531 00:37:25,360 --> 00:37:28,279 Speaker 1: and then we're gonna go open up the floodgates of 532 00:37:28,360 --> 00:37:32,400 Speaker 1: questions and comments. The strong foundation of this show is 533 00:37:32,400 --> 00:37:35,719 Speaker 1: that we see the word citizen as a verb rather 534 00:37:35,800 --> 00:37:39,920 Speaker 1: than strictly as a legal status. If you interpret citizen 535 00:37:39,960 --> 00:37:42,880 Speaker 1: as a verb, how do you define what it means 536 00:37:43,120 --> 00:37:50,120 Speaker 1: to citizens? I would say to learn about your life 537 00:37:50,480 --> 00:37:57,120 Speaker 1: in your family's history and how that connects two our 538 00:37:57,239 --> 00:38:03,480 Speaker 1: larger history. Because sometimes when you learn history in school, 539 00:38:03,800 --> 00:38:08,520 Speaker 1: you don't feel the immediate connection to your present day life. 540 00:38:09,080 --> 00:38:13,600 Speaker 1: And sometimes we go and look for stories of how 541 00:38:13,640 --> 00:38:17,400 Speaker 1: to humanize history in books and other people, and really 542 00:38:17,560 --> 00:38:22,000 Speaker 1: it's just already within your family, you know. So I 543 00:38:22,000 --> 00:38:27,359 Speaker 1: would say one easy way to citizen is learn your 544 00:38:27,360 --> 00:38:34,880 Speaker 1: family history and learn how that has impacted maybe decisions 545 00:38:34,920 --> 00:38:40,239 Speaker 1: you've made in your life and beliefs that you have 546 00:38:40,480 --> 00:38:45,680 Speaker 1: or that you disagree with now, but really your family history. Yes, 547 00:38:46,000 --> 00:38:48,400 Speaker 1: that was great. I feel so vindicated too, because I 548 00:38:48,440 --> 00:38:50,719 Speaker 1: told somebody something like that the other day and then 549 00:38:50,760 --> 00:38:54,239 Speaker 1: this dope artist just said it. So now, thank you. 550 00:38:54,360 --> 00:39:10,600 Speaker 1: It's not about me, but thank you. Yes, there's a 551 00:39:10,600 --> 00:39:13,239 Speaker 1: comment that I pulled from one of your videos that 552 00:39:13,400 --> 00:39:15,680 Speaker 1: I I want to get to as a guy named 553 00:39:15,719 --> 00:39:18,279 Speaker 1: Wade who I saw in one of your videos. He's 554 00:39:18,280 --> 00:39:20,480 Speaker 1: one of your map twins. You know Wade as you're 555 00:39:20,520 --> 00:39:23,719 Speaker 1: smiling and recognition and you know you asked Wade, or 556 00:39:23,760 --> 00:39:26,440 Speaker 1: someone asked what about would you encourage people to take 557 00:39:26,520 --> 00:39:30,080 Speaker 1: part in the folded Map project? And he said, quote, 558 00:39:30,719 --> 00:39:32,840 Speaker 1: having an open mind and being willing to do something 559 00:39:32,920 --> 00:39:36,280 Speaker 1: new and get out of your comfort zone is important 560 00:39:36,280 --> 00:39:38,799 Speaker 1: if we're going to become a more united city and 561 00:39:38,840 --> 00:39:41,360 Speaker 1: as citizens of the city really have a connection with 562 00:39:41,400 --> 00:39:44,239 Speaker 1: the entire city and not just half of it. You've 563 00:39:44,280 --> 00:39:48,040 Speaker 1: got to sometimes take the initiative and do the uncomfortable thing. 564 00:39:48,880 --> 00:39:51,520 Speaker 1: I want to encourage anyone who wants to bridge that 565 00:39:51,560 --> 00:39:54,840 Speaker 1: gap that we all know was there. You should just 566 00:39:54,960 --> 00:39:59,239 Speaker 1: do it. That's my boy, right, Like I said, that's 567 00:39:59,239 --> 00:40:03,640 Speaker 1: your medium, then I gotta set this up. This is 568 00:40:03,680 --> 00:40:09,080 Speaker 1: exciting because this is the person who actually first mentioned 569 00:40:09,480 --> 00:40:13,319 Speaker 1: Tonica Johnson and the Folded Map project to me. So, 570 00:40:13,880 --> 00:40:17,959 Speaker 1: Chris new Router is in the house. I'm Christie Router. 571 00:40:18,120 --> 00:40:20,839 Speaker 1: I'm a middle aged white lady who lives on the 572 00:40:20,880 --> 00:40:25,560 Speaker 1: North Side. I'm in a weird neighborhood called Bowmanville, which 573 00:40:25,640 --> 00:40:28,880 Speaker 1: is pretty close to Edgewater, which is sort of the 574 00:40:28,920 --> 00:40:33,040 Speaker 1: north Side focus of Folded Map. My day job is 575 00:40:33,080 --> 00:40:36,800 Speaker 1: in forensic engineering, so I have like an architectural background, 576 00:40:37,400 --> 00:40:40,000 Speaker 1: and I first fell in love with Folded Map because 577 00:40:40,120 --> 00:40:45,840 Speaker 1: of the beautiful sort of architectural photos that that Tanka took. 578 00:40:45,880 --> 00:40:49,600 Speaker 1: And so I went down to Englewood Branded and saw 579 00:40:49,640 --> 00:40:53,359 Speaker 1: the exhibit after hearing it on NPR, and I just 580 00:40:53,480 --> 00:40:57,480 Speaker 1: fell in love. And I've a comment and then some questions. 581 00:40:57,680 --> 00:41:00,600 Speaker 1: One of the things that is really great about Tanka 582 00:41:00,719 --> 00:41:05,800 Speaker 1: is that there's so much joy and celebration of these communities, 583 00:41:06,120 --> 00:41:08,399 Speaker 1: you know, whether it's north Side, the you know over 584 00:41:08,480 --> 00:41:12,760 Speaker 1: resource neighborhood I live in, or um you know, south 585 00:41:12,800 --> 00:41:17,120 Speaker 1: side communities like Englewood that frankly are getting just horrible 586 00:41:17,880 --> 00:41:22,359 Speaker 1: media coverage and it bothers me as a Chicagoan who 587 00:41:22,400 --> 00:41:25,200 Speaker 1: loves my city that you know, it's described as a 588 00:41:25,200 --> 00:41:28,319 Speaker 1: war zone and we forget I think that people live 589 00:41:28,360 --> 00:41:30,840 Speaker 1: in these neighborhoods, even if there's you know, a gang 590 00:41:30,920 --> 00:41:35,000 Speaker 1: problem on a block. These are thriving neighborhoods that people 591 00:41:35,080 --> 00:41:38,200 Speaker 1: live in and we need to stop measuring our communities 592 00:41:38,239 --> 00:41:41,399 Speaker 1: only in terms of, you know, monetary wealth. And that's 593 00:41:41,400 --> 00:41:45,200 Speaker 1: what I really love about this project in particular. One 594 00:41:45,200 --> 00:41:47,799 Speaker 1: of the questions I had for Tuanika is how do 595 00:41:47,880 --> 00:41:51,200 Speaker 1: you see this being applied in other communities? I see 596 00:41:51,200 --> 00:41:53,879 Speaker 1: a lot of the chat was really focused on that. 597 00:41:55,640 --> 00:41:58,800 Speaker 1: Thank you for asking that question. Um, I've been thinking 598 00:41:58,840 --> 00:42:03,239 Speaker 1: a lot about that, and when I've spoken in other 599 00:42:03,560 --> 00:42:09,640 Speaker 1: cities of the States, I've always ended up saying every 600 00:42:09,640 --> 00:42:12,719 Speaker 1: place has a fold. So that is going to be 601 00:42:12,800 --> 00:42:17,440 Speaker 1: the next guide that I create after I commit to 602 00:42:17,440 --> 00:42:19,799 Speaker 1: getting this action kid out in two weeks, is a 603 00:42:20,000 --> 00:42:24,120 Speaker 1: find your fold. And it doesn't matter what kind of 604 00:42:24,200 --> 00:42:30,040 Speaker 1: mapping system your city has. There is segregation and there's 605 00:42:30,120 --> 00:42:35,400 Speaker 1: usually a street, a house, a landmark, something that divides 606 00:42:35,840 --> 00:42:39,359 Speaker 1: and I want to help people know that you don't 607 00:42:39,520 --> 00:42:43,000 Speaker 1: need an exact grid map to do this or replicate 608 00:42:43,040 --> 00:42:47,759 Speaker 1: this in your city, just your reflection about where the 609 00:42:47,800 --> 00:42:51,840 Speaker 1: divide is fold it right there. Even if it's in 610 00:42:51,880 --> 00:42:56,319 Speaker 1: a classroom or a lunch room, there is usually a 611 00:42:56,440 --> 00:42:59,879 Speaker 1: divide a fold, and so I want to be able 612 00:42:59,880 --> 00:43:06,120 Speaker 1: to encourage people to find that fold and use art 613 00:43:06,280 --> 00:43:08,680 Speaker 1: to think of the fold like. It doesn't have to 614 00:43:08,719 --> 00:43:12,920 Speaker 1: be so rigid, you know, conceptually, it could be a 615 00:43:13,040 --> 00:43:19,040 Speaker 1: fold in instruments, certain students in class picks. There is 616 00:43:19,080 --> 00:43:22,759 Speaker 1: always something that is a division, and the goal of 617 00:43:22,840 --> 00:43:27,520 Speaker 1: Folded Map is to use that divide to bring people together. 618 00:43:28,120 --> 00:43:33,960 Speaker 1: So I'm definitely going to create find your Fold guide, 619 00:43:34,560 --> 00:43:39,280 Speaker 1: explaining to people my process and how I did folded Map, 620 00:43:39,560 --> 00:43:44,240 Speaker 1: and you know, give them the instructions on how to 621 00:43:44,280 --> 00:43:53,520 Speaker 1: do it in their location. So that's soon to come. Maybe. Um, 622 00:43:53,560 --> 00:43:57,640 Speaker 1: all right, We've got a live question from Mama Sarah Great, 623 00:43:57,640 --> 00:44:00,759 Speaker 1: Thank you. Hi. I'm from Rochester, New York. Are the 624 00:44:00,840 --> 00:44:03,840 Speaker 1: folks here in the city, Roots Community, Land Trust and 625 00:44:03,920 --> 00:44:07,839 Speaker 1: Rochester have been doing tremendous work around educating about redlining 626 00:44:08,280 --> 00:44:11,480 Speaker 1: how our city was divided, and I'm just curious who 627 00:44:11,520 --> 00:44:16,440 Speaker 1: you're connecting with around efforts to educate beyond your project 628 00:44:16,680 --> 00:44:22,200 Speaker 1: into how your communities can rebuild from the grassroots, maybe 629 00:44:22,200 --> 00:44:27,160 Speaker 1: through land trust or other things. So beyond folded MAP, 630 00:44:27,200 --> 00:44:32,840 Speaker 1: I'm definitely connected with community organizations that are trying to 631 00:44:34,480 --> 00:44:41,600 Speaker 1: really specifically increase home ownership in neighborhoods like Inglewood. Land 632 00:44:41,640 --> 00:44:45,640 Speaker 1: trust is one of the you know, tools that people 633 00:44:45,640 --> 00:44:50,080 Speaker 1: are talking about. But then there's also the other issue 634 00:44:50,400 --> 00:44:55,560 Speaker 1: of repurposing schools that have been closed in neighborhoods like Inglewoods. 635 00:44:55,560 --> 00:44:59,440 Speaker 1: So all of those things are definitely being talked about 636 00:44:59,560 --> 00:45:03,600 Speaker 1: and Lord, but since neighborhoods in Chicago are like a 637 00:45:03,719 --> 00:45:08,360 Speaker 1: universe of their own, you can't apply one strategy to 638 00:45:08,520 --> 00:45:12,040 Speaker 1: all of these neighborhoods. Each neighborhood is very unique. Um 639 00:45:12,040 --> 00:45:15,080 Speaker 1: An example I can give is there's another South Side 640 00:45:15,120 --> 00:45:19,640 Speaker 1: neighborhood called Auburn, Gresham and Chatham, and these are neighborhoods 641 00:45:19,680 --> 00:45:23,200 Speaker 1: that have a strong home ownership base, but they're mostly 642 00:45:23,280 --> 00:45:26,920 Speaker 1: older Black people, and so their neighborhoods, even though they 643 00:45:26,920 --> 00:45:30,560 Speaker 1: have high home ownership, they don't have the other amenities 644 00:45:30,960 --> 00:45:35,799 Speaker 1: that you know, this aging population deserves, and so they 645 00:45:35,840 --> 00:45:40,640 Speaker 1: don't have grocery stores in abundance, so their efforts is 646 00:45:40,640 --> 00:45:44,279 Speaker 1: gonna look different from a neighborhood like Inglewood folded map 647 00:45:44,440 --> 00:45:48,960 Speaker 1: has definitely been included in those conversations of how people 648 00:45:49,440 --> 00:45:53,160 Speaker 1: can be helped. And so that is one of the 649 00:45:53,239 --> 00:45:58,600 Speaker 1: other primary things that's being discussed publicly in Chicago. It's 650 00:45:58,640 --> 00:46:06,279 Speaker 1: just the banks banks still not offering fair lending practices 651 00:46:06,400 --> 00:46:10,320 Speaker 1: to the neighborhoods that were a redline. And then also, 652 00:46:11,000 --> 00:46:16,120 Speaker 1: you know, even beyond land trust conversations about the appraisal process, 653 00:46:16,160 --> 00:46:22,040 Speaker 1: how that also hinders home ownership value increasing in certain neighborhoods. 654 00:46:22,080 --> 00:46:25,600 Speaker 1: So all of those things are in conversation and on 655 00:46:25,640 --> 00:46:28,600 Speaker 1: the table. So yes, this is thank you for the question, 656 00:46:29,160 --> 00:46:31,400 Speaker 1: Thank you so much. I'm going to read a question 657 00:46:31,520 --> 00:46:35,680 Speaker 1: from Aaron Masked, some of which you addressed. He asks, 658 00:46:35,680 --> 00:46:38,759 Speaker 1: how do we bridge the gap? This gap between that 659 00:46:38,800 --> 00:46:42,080 Speaker 1: I courted Wade referring to how do we bridge that gap? 660 00:46:42,440 --> 00:46:44,799 Speaker 1: How do we talk to people who don't think that 661 00:46:44,840 --> 00:46:48,680 Speaker 1: gap exists? You don't talk to people who don't think gap, 662 00:46:48,800 --> 00:46:53,240 Speaker 1: don't You just don't waste the time with that. Another 663 00:46:53,320 --> 00:46:58,000 Speaker 1: thing Wade saying that really stuck with me. He said, 664 00:46:58,040 --> 00:47:04,439 Speaker 1: you know, dismantling racism and segregation seems like such a 665 00:47:04,520 --> 00:47:09,640 Speaker 1: big thing you just can't fix. And he said, you know, 666 00:47:09,800 --> 00:47:14,200 Speaker 1: folded map providing him a way to feel like he was. 667 00:47:15,120 --> 00:47:17,719 Speaker 1: And that's just what I want to remind people that 668 00:47:18,800 --> 00:47:24,360 Speaker 1: we're still struggling with racism and segregation and systemic racism. 669 00:47:24,400 --> 00:47:27,840 Speaker 1: Although we have policies and laws, but that doesn't work. 670 00:47:28,280 --> 00:47:31,480 Speaker 1: It has to be through our personal lives, like we 671 00:47:31,560 --> 00:47:35,279 Speaker 1: have to make it personal. That's the only way that 672 00:47:35,440 --> 00:47:39,600 Speaker 1: systems can stop becoming systems, because we have to change 673 00:47:39,640 --> 00:47:42,680 Speaker 1: the thoughts. It's the thoughts that are systemic. What people 674 00:47:42,719 --> 00:47:45,600 Speaker 1: think of each other is systemic. And the only way 675 00:47:45,640 --> 00:47:49,719 Speaker 1: you can change thoughts is by changing yours. And the 676 00:47:49,760 --> 00:47:52,239 Speaker 1: only way you can do that is by getting to 677 00:47:52,280 --> 00:47:56,120 Speaker 1: know other people. And how you choose to do that 678 00:47:57,200 --> 00:48:00,000 Speaker 1: can be up to you, but it is a very 679 00:48:00,239 --> 00:48:03,960 Speaker 1: real way that works. I don't want people to minimize 680 00:48:04,000 --> 00:48:07,879 Speaker 1: the impact of literally getting to know someone who has 681 00:48:07,880 --> 00:48:11,920 Speaker 1: a different lived experience. It's powerful, has been proven that 682 00:48:11,920 --> 00:48:17,640 Speaker 1: that's a guaranteed way to develop empathy. So you know, 683 00:48:18,320 --> 00:48:22,399 Speaker 1: there is another version of erring out there in some 684 00:48:22,480 --> 00:48:26,239 Speaker 1: other neighborhood. You know, and dis imagine if you all 685 00:48:26,440 --> 00:48:31,120 Speaker 1: met each other, you know what, the issues that he 686 00:48:31,239 --> 00:48:35,920 Speaker 1: has will become important to you. And that is the 687 00:48:35,960 --> 00:48:41,080 Speaker 1: goal of folded Map is to help people become more empathetic. 688 00:48:41,520 --> 00:48:44,160 Speaker 1: So that's what I would suggest, you know, just keep 689 00:48:44,200 --> 00:48:48,960 Speaker 1: it simple. If you find someone interesting who is different 690 00:48:49,000 --> 00:48:54,040 Speaker 1: than you, strike up a conversation, talk to them, and 691 00:48:54,080 --> 00:48:58,239 Speaker 1: just pursue the relationship. Yeah. I'm gonna do a potentially 692 00:48:58,840 --> 00:49:02,960 Speaker 1: annoying thing here, but go to quote myself, which is 693 00:49:03,239 --> 00:49:07,160 Speaker 1: in my ted talk about deconstructing racism. I've made this 694 00:49:07,200 --> 00:49:11,000 Speaker 1: comment that systems are just collective stories we all believe in. 695 00:49:12,200 --> 00:49:16,920 Speaker 1: And what you've answered to Aaron's question tonka Is reminds 696 00:49:16,960 --> 00:49:19,760 Speaker 1: me of that in a different way. If enough people 697 00:49:20,480 --> 00:49:23,680 Speaker 1: do believe the gap exists, and enough people work to 698 00:49:23,800 --> 00:49:27,799 Speaker 1: build that bridge, create that dialogue, and establish a relationship 699 00:49:28,520 --> 00:49:31,799 Speaker 1: that can become the new system, It's almost the numbers game, 700 00:49:32,080 --> 00:49:35,040 Speaker 1: and there are many people who are interested in doing that. 701 00:49:35,360 --> 00:49:37,400 Speaker 1: We may not all be aware of how many of 702 00:49:37,520 --> 00:49:40,520 Speaker 1: us there are. I'm going to read a question from 703 00:49:40,680 --> 00:49:44,880 Speaker 1: Betsy from the Great NYC. Are you creating programs that 704 00:49:44,960 --> 00:49:48,920 Speaker 1: teachers can use like a teaching guy, Yes, I am 705 00:49:48,960 --> 00:49:53,880 Speaker 1: actually doing that right now. So one of my goals 706 00:49:54,080 --> 00:49:57,480 Speaker 1: was to have Bolded Map be a curriculum in Chicago 707 00:49:57,560 --> 00:50:02,640 Speaker 1: Public school system, but my collaboration with them, a partnership, 708 00:50:02,719 --> 00:50:05,359 Speaker 1: was kind of interrupted by them adopting you know, New 709 00:50:05,440 --> 00:50:10,040 Speaker 1: York Times six nineteen project, which is amazing. So I 710 00:50:10,120 --> 00:50:13,640 Speaker 1: still wanted teachers and educators to be able to access 711 00:50:13,960 --> 00:50:17,719 Speaker 1: um not only just the material from Folded Map, but 712 00:50:17,920 --> 00:50:22,560 Speaker 1: from my other projects interviews. So I am in the 713 00:50:22,600 --> 00:50:27,799 Speaker 1: process of creating a website that educators or just the 714 00:50:27,840 --> 00:50:33,760 Speaker 1: public in general can access and use as instructional resources 715 00:50:33,800 --> 00:50:37,640 Speaker 1: for existing curriculums. So the goal is to eventually have 716 00:50:37,880 --> 00:50:42,239 Speaker 1: a Folded Map curriculum, but until then, I want to 717 00:50:42,280 --> 00:50:46,480 Speaker 1: make my interviews, the clips I have of Inglewood, the photography, 718 00:50:46,760 --> 00:50:49,520 Speaker 1: the maps, win interviews, all of those things from all 719 00:50:49,560 --> 00:50:53,600 Speaker 1: of my collective projects available for the public to use 720 00:50:53,800 --> 00:50:57,440 Speaker 1: as instructional tools for whatever it is they're doing. Because 721 00:50:57,440 --> 00:51:00,440 Speaker 1: there's a lot of great curriculums already out there, and 722 00:51:00,480 --> 00:51:04,520 Speaker 1: I know that people and educators are constantly looking for 723 00:51:05,080 --> 00:51:09,879 Speaker 1: resources to support or to make their curriculums fresh. So 724 00:51:10,320 --> 00:51:12,640 Speaker 1: I just decided to kind of go that route, and 725 00:51:13,080 --> 00:51:19,800 Speaker 1: we will be hopefully making that website available in Thank 726 00:51:19,840 --> 00:51:23,480 Speaker 1: you Betsy from the great NYC for that great question. 727 00:51:24,160 --> 00:51:27,840 Speaker 1: And now we're going to hear from Ned. All Right, 728 00:51:28,080 --> 00:51:30,960 Speaker 1: I'm that kid. I'm calling from Madison and Wisconsin. You know, 729 00:51:31,000 --> 00:51:34,160 Speaker 1: we have a definite divide in my child's school between 730 00:51:34,440 --> 00:51:36,440 Speaker 1: you know, the families to live. On one side of 731 00:51:36,480 --> 00:51:40,360 Speaker 1: the street, that's mostly apartments, mostly black families, mostly poorer families. 732 00:51:40,360 --> 00:51:43,640 Speaker 1: On the other side of the street, it's houses, mostly 733 00:51:43,680 --> 00:51:45,320 Speaker 1: the white folks who go to the school. To school 734 00:51:45,360 --> 00:51:49,040 Speaker 1: itself is incredibly diverse, but we don't live near each other, right. 735 00:51:49,480 --> 00:51:53,319 Speaker 1: And one of the things that I guess, just as 736 00:51:53,400 --> 00:51:55,360 Speaker 1: as I've been listening and I've been thinking about, you know, 737 00:51:55,440 --> 00:51:57,400 Speaker 1: kind of these flip line I think about the issues 738 00:51:57,400 --> 00:52:00,360 Speaker 1: of like low income housing solutions and other things. The 739 00:52:00,520 --> 00:52:02,960 Speaker 1: question I want to ask you, though, as you've been 740 00:52:02,960 --> 00:52:06,560 Speaker 1: working on this project, how have you personally seen your 741 00:52:07,360 --> 00:52:12,000 Speaker 1: concept of what racial justice social justice in some of 742 00:52:12,000 --> 00:52:14,400 Speaker 1: these issues like housing and other things. What does that 743 00:52:15,040 --> 00:52:17,960 Speaker 1: look like for you? How has this work impacted you 744 00:52:18,120 --> 00:52:22,640 Speaker 1: personally in your thoughts on those things. Yes, so thank 745 00:52:22,680 --> 00:52:26,759 Speaker 1: you for the question. One specific example I can give 746 00:52:27,360 --> 00:52:32,040 Speaker 1: is when I expanded the project to include map twins 747 00:52:32,080 --> 00:52:35,359 Speaker 1: from the western side of the city, which is very 748 00:52:35,400 --> 00:52:39,320 Speaker 1: different from the north and south side. So Chicago is 749 00:52:39,360 --> 00:52:43,160 Speaker 1: like a triangle, you know, like North South and then 750 00:52:43,200 --> 00:52:45,960 Speaker 1: it extends here and then there's a western part, and 751 00:52:46,040 --> 00:52:48,200 Speaker 1: so on that western part, it's still the North South 752 00:52:48,320 --> 00:52:52,480 Speaker 1: racial divide, but it's just ten minutes apart as opposed 753 00:52:52,520 --> 00:52:56,320 Speaker 1: to our apart. And so when I interviewed those map twins, 754 00:52:56,360 --> 00:52:59,600 Speaker 1: they talked about gentrification, which wasn't something that was brought 755 00:52:59,680 --> 00:53:03,880 Speaker 1: up North South maps wins because that really has happened 756 00:53:03,920 --> 00:53:08,680 Speaker 1: from white to black communities. Traditionally in Chicago, Latino neighborhoods 757 00:53:08,719 --> 00:53:14,680 Speaker 1: get gentrified and because of that gentrification, they move into 758 00:53:14,680 --> 00:53:18,960 Speaker 1: neighborhoods where they can afford, which is generally black neighborhoods. 759 00:53:19,000 --> 00:53:24,399 Speaker 1: So the maps win started talking about gentrification, and it's 760 00:53:24,440 --> 00:53:30,719 Speaker 1: always people against the gentrifiers. And so I've used that 761 00:53:30,800 --> 00:53:35,520 Speaker 1: conversation to help people understand how we have to redirect 762 00:53:35,880 --> 00:53:40,000 Speaker 1: our anger, and we have to redirect it to our 763 00:53:40,239 --> 00:53:45,600 Speaker 1: elected officials and the people who create the housing policies 764 00:53:45,640 --> 00:53:51,759 Speaker 1: that determine low income, high income neighborhoods, because at the 765 00:53:51,920 --> 00:53:55,040 Speaker 1: end of the day. The white people who are viewed 766 00:53:55,080 --> 00:54:02,080 Speaker 1: as gentrifiers to whatever neighborhoods, honestly, they're viewed as dollar 767 00:54:02,200 --> 00:54:09,040 Speaker 1: signs by the developers incorporations, and they can't really help that. 768 00:54:09,520 --> 00:54:14,480 Speaker 1: Wherever they move for affordability, businesses just follow them, like 769 00:54:14,560 --> 00:54:17,920 Speaker 1: everything they ever want just follows them. So I just 770 00:54:18,440 --> 00:54:22,320 Speaker 1: told people, you know that if we're gonna continue having 771 00:54:22,360 --> 00:54:27,000 Speaker 1: this conversation about gentrification, we cannot be blaming you know. 772 00:54:27,120 --> 00:54:30,120 Speaker 1: Of course, once gentrification happens, the people who are new 773 00:54:30,120 --> 00:54:33,520 Speaker 1: to the community should pay attention to the community that 774 00:54:33,640 --> 00:54:37,799 Speaker 1: existed there before. But the issue does not start with 775 00:54:37,880 --> 00:54:40,880 Speaker 1: people who move into a neighborhood and then eventually the 776 00:54:40,920 --> 00:54:45,000 Speaker 1: neighborhood changes not as a result of what they said 777 00:54:45,040 --> 00:54:49,280 Speaker 1: they want, but because of what follows them, which is resources, 778 00:54:49,480 --> 00:54:52,839 Speaker 1: which is money and development. And so the only way 779 00:54:52,880 --> 00:54:57,560 Speaker 1: we can tackle that is becoming unified and addressing that 780 00:54:57,760 --> 00:55:01,359 Speaker 1: saying no, it's not fair that neighborhoods where young white 781 00:55:01,360 --> 00:55:04,680 Speaker 1: professionals move because they want to live someplace too that 782 00:55:04,719 --> 00:55:08,240 Speaker 1: they can afford, that the neighborhood starts to change because 783 00:55:08,239 --> 00:55:12,560 Speaker 1: of developers and corporations who view them also as dollar 784 00:55:12,680 --> 00:55:16,880 Speaker 1: signs and so that is one way that we've been 785 00:55:17,000 --> 00:55:20,239 Speaker 1: kind of having that conversation in Chicago that kind of 786 00:55:20,280 --> 00:55:24,759 Speaker 1: addresses the class part of it, because at the end 787 00:55:24,760 --> 00:55:28,280 Speaker 1: of the day, people move to neighborhoods that they feel 788 00:55:28,280 --> 00:55:31,800 Speaker 1: like they can afford. How they determine the criteria for 789 00:55:31,880 --> 00:55:35,080 Speaker 1: the neighborhood deals. That's a lot of other stuff, but 790 00:55:35,600 --> 00:55:41,400 Speaker 1: remembering that commonality that people live where they can afford, 791 00:55:41,719 --> 00:55:46,360 Speaker 1: and we have to question what goes into making a 792 00:55:46,400 --> 00:55:51,520 Speaker 1: neighborhood affordable or not. So that's just very general conceptual answer, 793 00:55:51,800 --> 00:55:55,080 Speaker 1: but you know, that's just part of the conversation that 794 00:55:55,160 --> 00:55:59,760 Speaker 1: has to happen for people to even think differently about 795 00:56:00,560 --> 00:56:05,879 Speaker 1: the income. Yeah, thank you for an excellent question Ned 796 00:56:05,880 --> 00:56:09,080 Speaker 1: from Madison, Wisconsin and uh in an excellent answer to 797 00:56:09,160 --> 00:56:12,880 Speaker 1: Nika Johnson from Chicago. I just want to say what 798 00:56:13,200 --> 00:56:18,560 Speaker 1: an incredible pleasure this has been. I knew from seeing 799 00:56:18,560 --> 00:56:21,560 Speaker 1: the project from the outside this was something special. We 800 00:56:21,600 --> 00:56:23,680 Speaker 1: had a brief call with Tanika a few weeks ago. 801 00:56:24,239 --> 00:56:27,000 Speaker 1: It was clear this was special, and I think what's 802 00:56:27,040 --> 00:56:30,000 Speaker 1: remarkable is some of what we've already heard that Tanika, 803 00:56:30,040 --> 00:56:32,839 Speaker 1: your medium is also the people that you've in beauty 804 00:56:32,920 --> 00:56:35,720 Speaker 1: level of trust in us to go through this process 805 00:56:35,760 --> 00:56:38,680 Speaker 1: and not try to fix everything like the mess is okay, 806 00:56:39,120 --> 00:56:41,880 Speaker 1: and it's a part of the process, and it ties 807 00:56:41,920 --> 00:56:43,360 Speaker 1: back to so much of what we believe in this 808 00:56:43,440 --> 00:56:47,200 Speaker 1: show that relationship building is key to citizening, and so 809 00:56:47,280 --> 00:56:51,640 Speaker 1: you've demonstrated a really beautiful, literally artistic way to do 810 00:56:51,840 --> 00:56:54,920 Speaker 1: that that adds a third dimension to the reports of 811 00:56:54,920 --> 00:56:57,839 Speaker 1: what our communities are like and gives us a bit 812 00:56:57,880 --> 00:57:01,279 Speaker 1: more language and imagination to create the communities that we 813 00:57:01,280 --> 00:57:04,920 Speaker 1: actually want to live in. All that is tremendous and remarkable, 814 00:57:04,920 --> 00:57:08,880 Speaker 1: and uh, thank you, thank you, thank you. We're gonna 815 00:57:08,880 --> 00:57:18,000 Speaker 1: find that fold We are beyond grateful to Tonica Johnson 816 00:57:18,080 --> 00:57:23,160 Speaker 1: for joining us. You can follow Tonica J on Instagram 817 00:57:23,280 --> 00:57:27,080 Speaker 1: t O n I K A J and visit Folded 818 00:57:27,160 --> 00:57:32,200 Speaker 1: map project dot com. Find this episode, a full transcript, 819 00:57:32,440 --> 00:57:36,280 Speaker 1: show notes and more at how do Citizen dot com, 820 00:57:36,320 --> 00:57:38,600 Speaker 1: and please show you a support for the show in 821 00:57:38,640 --> 00:57:41,919 Speaker 1: the form of a review and or a rating. Makes 822 00:57:41,920 --> 00:57:45,280 Speaker 1: a big difference with these algorithmic overloaders, y'all. But now 823 00:57:45,320 --> 00:57:50,680 Speaker 1: for the fun part this episode's actions. We start off 824 00:57:51,000 --> 00:57:55,040 Speaker 1: with our internal actions. There's three of them. The first 825 00:57:55,160 --> 00:57:57,320 Speaker 1: pretty light and they get a little heavier from there. 826 00:57:57,680 --> 00:58:01,600 Speaker 1: I want you to listen to another podcast, this American Life, 827 00:58:01,680 --> 00:58:04,720 Speaker 1: not the whole series that's like thousands of hours, two 828 00:58:04,760 --> 00:58:09,320 Speaker 1: episodes that sit under the title House Rules. These two 829 00:58:09,320 --> 00:58:13,600 Speaker 1: episodes examined segregation in the United States in a beautiful way. 830 00:58:14,000 --> 00:58:16,640 Speaker 1: You can find the link in our show notes on 831 00:58:16,680 --> 00:58:19,920 Speaker 1: the website of the Digital Scholarship Lab for the University 832 00:58:19,960 --> 00:58:23,800 Speaker 1: of Richmond in Virginia. You can explore this interactive map 833 00:58:24,440 --> 00:58:28,640 Speaker 1: that lets you see where segregation got planted in the 834 00:58:28,720 --> 00:58:31,720 Speaker 1: United States in so many ways by looking at the 835 00:58:31,840 --> 00:58:36,200 Speaker 1: loan rating codes from the Home Owners Loan Corporation around 836 00:58:36,240 --> 00:58:39,280 Speaker 1: the time of the New Deal. Find your city and 837 00:58:39,320 --> 00:58:42,919 Speaker 1: look at that history and think about is it's still 838 00:58:42,920 --> 00:58:47,640 Speaker 1: reflected today. The third internal action has a lot of 839 00:58:47,680 --> 00:58:49,640 Speaker 1: detail I want you to find at how to citizen 840 00:58:49,680 --> 00:58:52,080 Speaker 1: dot com, but I lay it on your pretty simply 841 00:58:52,160 --> 00:58:55,120 Speaker 1: like this. We think we came up with a way 842 00:58:55,160 --> 00:58:59,800 Speaker 1: for you to explore a folded map like experience for 843 00:58:59,840 --> 00:59:02,160 Speaker 1: theo who don't live in Chicago right without having to 844 00:59:02,200 --> 00:59:04,200 Speaker 1: move to the city of Chicago, which is a great place. 845 00:59:04,200 --> 00:59:07,240 Speaker 1: But that's a big commitment for a podcast where you 846 00:59:07,280 --> 00:59:11,520 Speaker 1: are try this Instead of that first step, reflect on 847 00:59:11,560 --> 00:59:15,240 Speaker 1: your neighborhood and write down the things you love, the 848 00:59:15,280 --> 00:59:18,840 Speaker 1: things you depend on, the specific places that you frequent, 849 00:59:18,920 --> 00:59:22,560 Speaker 1: the library, the grocery stores you go to, the cultural 850 00:59:22,560 --> 00:59:26,120 Speaker 1: institutions you value, the news sources you trust at a 851 00:59:26,320 --> 00:59:29,800 Speaker 1: very very local level. Then I want you to think 852 00:59:29,840 --> 00:59:33,760 Speaker 1: about the neighborhood you don't go to. Think about that 853 00:59:33,880 --> 00:59:37,800 Speaker 1: part of town that you think of as too dangerous 854 00:59:37,880 --> 00:59:41,880 Speaker 1: or too bad to visit, or maybe it's too wealthy 855 00:59:41,960 --> 00:59:45,360 Speaker 1: and too unwelcoming to visit. Either way, there's a part 856 00:59:45,480 --> 00:59:48,800 Speaker 1: of your town or your region that you do not frequent. 857 00:59:49,040 --> 00:59:52,000 Speaker 1: I want you to picture this place, find it, name it, 858 00:59:52,720 --> 00:59:55,520 Speaker 1: and then I want you to explore it using the 859 00:59:55,600 --> 00:59:59,920 Speaker 1: same lens you used to think about your neighborhood. Find 860 01:00:00,000 --> 01:00:03,320 Speaker 1: a restaurant there that serves the food you love in 861 01:00:03,440 --> 01:00:07,280 Speaker 1: order to take out or delivery. Find a library there 862 01:00:07,320 --> 01:00:10,480 Speaker 1: and compare its programming to the one offered by your 863 01:00:10,520 --> 01:00:13,520 Speaker 1: own library. We're in COVID time, so I'm not going 864 01:00:13,560 --> 01:00:16,720 Speaker 1: to encourage you to physically explore a bunch of neighborhoods 865 01:00:16,760 --> 01:00:21,600 Speaker 1: and indoor spaces, but find artists and cultural institutions and 866 01:00:22,280 --> 01:00:25,920 Speaker 1: local news sources in the part of town you never 867 01:00:26,000 --> 01:00:30,000 Speaker 1: go to and tune into that. Our goal is to 868 01:00:30,120 --> 01:00:34,200 Speaker 1: help you become a better citizen of your own neighborhood 869 01:00:34,720 --> 01:00:39,520 Speaker 1: and your greater city and regional area, not just your neighborhood. 870 01:00:40,320 --> 01:00:44,200 Speaker 1: On the external front. For those who live in Chicago, 871 01:00:44,760 --> 01:00:47,640 Speaker 1: you better sign up at that folded map project dot com. 872 01:00:48,000 --> 01:00:50,960 Speaker 1: Do it now. Tonica has finished the action kit and 873 01:00:51,000 --> 01:00:54,040 Speaker 1: it is available for you, so please check that out. 874 01:00:54,880 --> 01:00:56,840 Speaker 1: And whether you live there or not, if you know 875 01:00:57,000 --> 01:01:01,840 Speaker 1: an educator, share this project with them. In particular. Folded 876 01:01:01,880 --> 01:01:06,600 Speaker 1: map Project dot com slash video has resources designs specifically 877 01:01:06,640 --> 01:01:10,400 Speaker 1: for educators. So download the action kit and try to 878 01:01:10,480 --> 01:01:13,480 Speaker 1: do it. Try to do it, and if you take 879 01:01:13,520 --> 01:01:16,240 Speaker 1: any of these actions as always, share them with us 880 01:01:16,600 --> 01:01:19,760 Speaker 1: by sending an email to action at how to citizen 881 01:01:19,840 --> 01:01:23,120 Speaker 1: dot com. Put the word bridges in the subject line. 882 01:01:23,120 --> 01:01:26,920 Speaker 1: That'll help us sort this out and brag online about 883 01:01:26,920 --> 01:01:30,400 Speaker 1: your citizen in using the hashtag how to citizen. You 884 01:01:30,440 --> 01:01:34,760 Speaker 1: can also send us general feedback or ideas to comments 885 01:01:34,800 --> 01:01:37,840 Speaker 1: at how to citizen dot com and you can text 886 01:01:37,920 --> 01:01:40,280 Speaker 1: me two oh to eight nine four eight eight four 887 01:01:40,400 --> 01:01:42,760 Speaker 1: four drop the word citizen in there, so I know 888 01:01:42,800 --> 01:01:45,480 Speaker 1: how you found me and I'll give you extra special 889 01:01:45,520 --> 01:01:49,280 Speaker 1: attention and alert. How does Citizen with barrettun Days production 890 01:01:49,280 --> 01:01:52,919 Speaker 1: of I Heart Radio podcast Executive produced by Miles Gray, 891 01:01:53,160 --> 01:01:57,200 Speaker 1: Nick Stump, Elizabeth Stewart, and barrettune Day Thursty, Produced by 892 01:01:57,240 --> 01:02:01,040 Speaker 1: Joel Smith, Edited by Justin Smith. Powered by You